March 8, 2023 • 65 mins
In this episode Jill, Laiya, and Aja talk to Ruth King about rage: what to do with it, how to use it, and how to transform it. For more resources from Ruth check out the links below.
Website:
Free Webinar: Let’s Talk About Race: What to do with emotional distress:
https://ruthking.net/free-webinar/
Rage Study Course: Healing Rage: Guidance that educates the heart and transforms the mind:
https://ruthking.net/healing-rage-training/
Publications:
https://ruthking.net/healing-rage-training/
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
Welcome to Jay dot Ill, a production of iHeartRadio. Well, welcome,
Hi everybody. I'm taking deep breath. Sometimes you gotta take
a deep breath. It's been quite a week, you know,
lots of lots of stress and having to set people
(00:25):
straight here, there and all over the war. I am
here fortunately with my beautiful sister friends, Agia Grad and
Dan's I love that. Darling, Hello Doll, Hello Darling, and
the lovely lovely lies Saint Clair. I am present, he
is present, Yes, double all the meanings to that. I'm
(00:47):
Initially I was talking about stress, friends, but I am
I have I've definitely had some moments, and here is
one of them. Years ago, I guess it was like
nineteen ninety six. Oh that's how long it was. But
I still feel it in my body. Oh yep, I
still feel it. Apartheid had ended and they were doing
(01:11):
the whole Truth and Reconciliation Commission, remember that. And I
remember sitting there and I was listening to these stories
and it was like, you know, I'm I'm very sorry
that I put your daughter in a tire and I
poured gasoline on it and I set it on fire
(01:33):
and I rolled it down the street till it hit
your house. I'm sorry, I was wrong. And I got
about maybe about thirty five minutes into this and I
felt something. I still feel it. I feel this immense
amount of there's no there's no other it's only rage.
(01:57):
It's it's just rage because later here I am. I
was in South Africa, and there were times when you know,
I wasn't necessarily served immediately although I was there first.
You know, there were times when, you know, going through
the neighborhoods, I'm looking at this community of huts um.
(02:19):
That's the that's the only thing I could think to
call it right now, no disrespect police. And I'm hanging
out in Um. I think they call them shanties. Shanties,
thank you. And I'm hanging out and I'm in a
bar barbecue spot, and I have to go to the
bathroom and there's, you know, a hole in the ground,
and I gotta, you know, go to the bathroom in
this hole. And I just and then you continue on
(02:42):
in South Africa and it's like it's so much wealth
and I know that this this, this whole country was
stolen um and it just enraged me that these people,
these these murdering people were forgiven, forgiven, and they were
(03:03):
allowed to keep their land, They were allowed to keep
all all the benefits of being there. They were not
put in prison for murdering children and women and people. People,
just people murdering people. And I'm telling you that my
(03:25):
blood pressure went so high. I've never had a problem
with blood pressure, despite what some people might think. But
I've never had problem with blood pressure. But when I'm
telling you that my blood pressure went so high that
I could hear a sound because I thought, finally, finally,
somebody is going to pay for the atrocities done to
(03:49):
brown people. Oh so well, bless your optimism, my love.
Just I hoped. I hoped, and I hoped, and it
made me sick. Oh, today we're talking about rage, and
we have the privilege and the pleasure Layah or age.
(04:11):
If you would be so kind to please introduce this
beautiful woman, this this bright spirit that we have the
privilege of looking at. You guys don't but but you
must look looking fine, look and see if you would
please introduce her. M I gotta get myself together. Yeah, y'all,
y'all will definitely need to Google at this point of
the podcast to get into her to get into her light.
(04:35):
But y'all know that I'm not as gifted with the
intros as Joe Joe Growl because I have so many
thoughts on your on that I have so many thoughts
another a circle back. But so forgive me if I read,
because I just want to make sure that we say
the proper things about our current about our guests today.
Our guest today is Ruth King. So how she explains
it is that rage sits at the crossroads of personal transformation.
(04:58):
Those of us seeking more self aware will inevitably stumble
upon personal rage on the path. And rage is not
to be understood as a useless emotion. It's empty of
story or knowledge, but it's clarity and untapped fuel. Embraced
with compassion, the energy trapped in rage becomes an intimate
and empathic teacher, offering balance, integrity, and inner peace to
(05:20):
your healing journey, relationships and service. And so Ruth King
is the founder of Mindful of Race Institute, LLC. And
it's a celebrated author, educator, and meditation teacher. She is
an elder, a heart activist, African American with Chocta our roots,
great grandmother and Native Californian She currently resides on Now,
(05:44):
did I read this word right? Unseated Territory of the
Hataba Indigenous Nations in Charlotte, North Carolina, with her wife,
doctor Barbara Riley. There's so many more things we could
tell you about Ruth King, but you know, I had
to read that word for word because y'all needed to understand,
like what power she enters this conversation with. So, ladies
(06:06):
and gentlemen, welcome to j dot Il Ruth Kang. Baby
girls who needed such a Buddhism on this. You're beautiful,
All of you are beautiful, and you know, I just
it's a lot to be said, right, I mean, I
(06:28):
so connect in the seventy five year old body with
the generational rage inheritance right of what our people have lived,
what we still carry in our bodies. So I so,
(06:53):
you know, and it's not like it's that far away. Uh,
It's it's not like it's this thing that happened way
that them. So we see if we look, we see
the shape, the skeletal shape of white supremacy that impinges
on every aspect of our lives. And of course, I
(07:14):
mean one of the reasons rage is such an important
focus is it's it's so appropriate for us to have
the emotion of rage, and it's equally important to befriended. Right.
So yeah, right, So it's like, okay, so this did happen,
(07:37):
This shit happened. And the truth of the matter is
anything can happen to us at any time. We're vulnerable
in that way. Some of us, these black bodies, are
more vulnerable than most. So we're vulnerable in this flesh,
in this body, we're vulnerable. We're sensing if we're nature right,
(08:03):
we feel life where artists, we're creators, we give birth,
you know, I mean, we're all of that. So it's
no way to not be touched by our history and
not to inherit. What's I'm finished And one of the
things I talk about in my work after giving offering
(08:26):
a Celebration of Rage retreat for fifteen years across the nation,
a place where women could come and be in the
raw expression of rage, without consequence, without judgment, without projection,
in ceremony, in vibration, in emotional release, not just for catharsis,
(08:51):
but to rest then in the space that gets created
from the release of what we've been holding. Right, So
the eye. That's one way of being thinking about befriending.
How do I just climb back and reclaim this body
that I've been shocked out of right in a way
that I then can rebirth myself. But we don't get
(09:16):
to do it out there. We have to reclaim the domain.
So these rage retreats were places where we can be
in ceremony. We can be in sacred states to tell
our stories, not just to be heard, but to be
but to release the toxic inflammation that represents in our bodies.
(09:41):
We need ceremony for that, We need other bodies for that,
and we need to not be interrupted when that's happening.
We need to break some shit, tear up some rooms.
This retreat offered all of that, a place where you
can really, you know, kind of release through these bodies
a lot of that trauma. It already happened for the year.
(10:02):
The retreat I know, I'm like were happened. The retreat
happened for years. It was in the Bay areas, in
the Bay Area. Bay already vibrates someplace. Yeah, b yeah,
Oh my gosh, I'm surprised. I read a whole boar.
(10:25):
It was like a whole barnyard that had all kinds
of music equipment hooked up and big basin uh space
to dance, and we worked in blindfolds and we we
we really you know, we had altars and we moved
around like earth bound. More real talk after the break.
(11:01):
I hate to even interrupt. Oh my God, Lord, forgive me. Okay,
I want you to circle back to ceremony. Oh this word,
so I know that, like the special being word right
now is intentionality. But ceremony, Like, let's talk about that,
like why the need for ceremony? And I know you
(11:22):
did kind of speak to that a little bit in
your explanation. If you could expound on that, like what
is the importance of creating that specific space and specific
activities around release and rage? Oh that's good, that's really good.
So so um ceremony is you could say that it's
(11:43):
sacred community. You know, when we could sit in our
own room and read a book and get knowledge, but
when we're in community, intentional community, where we all know
why we're walking through this door. We all know why
we're coming. Y'all share that in common. It may be
dressed up differently, but we're all coming for that reason.
(12:07):
And the reason for this rage work was to investigate,
to release what's being held that's killing us, to release
it in a sacred place. And we need other bodies
to witness that, to not to that, to affirm that,
(12:28):
m to pray with us with that, to um, to
get that it's older and bigger than us. To ceremony
to me also brings them the elements of working with
the earth, planting this shit in the ground, burning up
some of the you know, using the fire element to
(12:49):
burn up some of the stories we carry that are
no longer true if they ever were, and look at it,
just some of the internalized ways we believed or drank
the kolid right. So we need places where we get
to aarate that we put it out, and then by
(13:12):
hearing other people's story, it's like, damn, I didn't even
know that happened to me, But that we wake up.
We wake up in ceremony again. If we come in
with intention, I'm coming in here. I'm interested in healing
more than I am and being right. Okay, you have
(13:32):
to want something more than your story. You have to
be willing to look at a bigger story and join
a bigger ocean, like we're all rivers kind of making
our way to the ocean. We're joining the ocean. Is
this something that's alike to like shouting in church or
you know, we talk about community, and you know different
(13:53):
groups of folks they talk about community or uma or
the fellowship, this kind of idea that this has to
happen under an umbrella of something bigger than ourselves. Well,
you know, I was raised in the Pentecostal church, saying
in the choir, there's a lot about what I remember
about the church was that growing up was that the
(14:17):
person who got happy and spoken times was not the
same person that needed to know what that meant. Oftentimes
the person that's spoken times, somebody else in the community
knew what that meant. So there was this call and response.
You see that also in the yodel of a tradition
when you go to the Bimbays and there's the dancing
(14:39):
and drumming and the African risha's are making themselves revealed. Right,
whoever is invoked in spirit is not necessarily be the
one that is bringing a message, but providing a certainly
energetic release that is recognized within community. So I guess
(15:01):
you could say that when you come into an intentional space.
Whether it's a church or a bimbay or a rage retreat,
you come in with intention. You're coming into holy ground,
you're coming into being held and whatever gets released, it
doesn't I mean, everybody's not releasing in the same way,
but everybody comes with the intention of letting go, and
(15:25):
a lot of people come with the intention of letting go.
They may not let go in that space, but they'll
let go at some other time, But it doesn't mean
it's not being cooked, right, So I think, yeah, there's
not a program of it. It's like you come in
the door and you open up to the sky and
(15:46):
you're you have permission and space to release, have that
be narrated so that you can then see something bigger
than what you can just see it from what it is,
and usually it's bigger than what's the story you're holding
about it, And so you come with a certain curiosity
(16:09):
to kind of open to that. Not with a heart
I got to know, but I'm willing to surrender and
see what this rage is here to try to teach me,
because there's wisdom in it. It's usually an energy that
helped us survive, but it doesn't always help us heal. Right,
so we have to survive but not necessarily heal. Woa
(16:34):
now that baby, Jill, Jill, go ahead, you know you
know how that is applicable. Come on, ma'am. It may
help you survive, get through it, but not heal, but
not heal. And you be running around surviving and believing
that you have coped, that you have made it. You
(16:57):
send messaging around having made it when you are simply
in survival mode, you have not healed, and you are
teaching other people your raggedy ass survival techniques. And it
goes from generation to generation and then something pops up
and all of the stuff from the other thing that
you've been holding onto explodes. The other thing about it
(17:22):
is that it's rage is initiatory, but it's not transformative.
So it's a kind of energy that lights us up,
sets us on fire. But it's a comma, not a
period you got you know, it's not transformative energy. It's
it's it's luminous. It's a lot of truth in it,
(17:47):
but it's not the endgame. It's not enough to just
be righteous in it. We have to listen deeply and
it belongs to us. A lot of times we think
it belongs to these folks out here, but it's really
trying to whisper in our ear. Hey. You know, it's
a protector in a way. It's a protective energy. It
alerts us to something, some boundary that's being violated, or
(18:11):
some story that hasn't been cared for a well, or
some ancestor that's trying to tell you to clean this
shut up so we don't have to keep carrying it
to the next generation. Right. I mean, it's a kin
to how the body responds to everything. Right, So like
the body does some wowshit to let you know something's
not working, something hasn't connected exactly. It puts fluid around
(18:35):
a joint, bam, you know, just trying to protect. Yeah,
I was watching them the other night. I watched it
again just recently for many reasons. But there was a
point where there was a brother in there and he
was being antagonized by his mind. I suppose that's the
(18:58):
best way I could call. He was being in agonized
by his mind, a memory of a thing not being present,
not being able to protect, and he at some point
this this expression of rage was just super powerful. He
was he was saying he was the beast of the field,
and it was it was grunting, and it was it
(19:20):
was spit flying, and it was tears and all the things.
I think maybe, I mean, that's one way to express
I think is that a scary for people because it
was scary watching. See, That's that's why we need some ceremony.
We need some sacred space for that kind of expression. Now,
(19:40):
one of the things I think is so important for us,
especially as women, to understand around rage is the way
we've been conditioned to disguise it so sour. Our immediate
association with rage is that image jil you just describe,
you know, a person that's you know, on er what
(20:01):
I call the defiance disguise of rage in my book.
But I'm talking about six ways we tempt to roll
with rage, to be like that all the time, right,
because it is scary to people, So we've learned ways
to kind of package that. So it's not helpful always,
(20:22):
but it's a cover on top of an emotion that
a we're afraid of and be we know it could
scared to shit out of other people, so we keep
it on the wraps and it takes on other shapes.
So there's these six ways that it shows up. One
is a dominance. We try to control everything so that
we're never controlled. So that's one form of a cover up.
(20:45):
I know y'all probably aren't going anything about that, but
it happens to be my primary. If I can just
control everything, I'm going to, you know, keep this on
the wraps. Another one is the defiance type, which is
the seething I'm out, I'm in your face, Um, I'm
(21:05):
I'm not having it kind of outward expression, which is
what we usually associate with with rage, but it's it's, uh,
you know, it's one way. And then we have distraction,
where we're busy all the time consuming everything in our reach,
(21:25):
trying to get get this, that and the other, filling
ourselves up with all kinds of material things to try
to feel what feels insatiable, right, this kind of craze
and craving that we think can keep us just under
wraps with rage. And then we have devotiony disguise of
(21:47):
rage as a person who's helping everybody at the expense
of ourselfs um as a way of keeping everything nice
and under wraps and let me just try to take
care of you and never quite taking care of themselves.
That's another way of kind of bypassing the fuck you
(22:08):
kind of way that we really want to bring it,
but we can't really feel like we can do it
that way. Too much truth, too much truth, roal, slowdown,
slow down, okay boo. Yeah, that part doesn't make a
lot of sense to me, because if you know, if
you're if you're trying to help somebody, but you're not
in a good way, like I guess that would have
(22:30):
to be so, and it's not really self aware because
I will go somewhere else, I will go somewhere and
get quiet on you real quick. I need help. I
need to I need to gather myself fuck because I
cannot imagine trying to help when I'm not. Okay, there's
two more. There is the depression disguise, which is someone
(22:51):
that shuts down to kind of like a teapot's seeping.
You kind of keep the top on, keep the lid on.
It's a heavy lid, but you walk around with this
kind of weight that's suppressing not just rage, but a
lot of other emotions. And then there is the dependence disguise,
(23:11):
a person who is never quite able to be of
her own voice because her dependent her survival is dependent
upon other people to take care of her, so she's
compromised on what she says and how she rolls because
(23:33):
of this kind of dynamic. I'm saying these quickly, but
in the book totally centers around these six disguises, their shadows,
and their wisdom, because they all have wisdom. So many
of our baby boomer moms were experience and would all
of them. You might identify with one or two, and
(23:58):
because they all have shadows, it'll look like you're identifying
with all of them, but you're not. It's usually we
roll with one or two as our lead, and then
we attract our opposites. Like the dominance disguise is going
to attract the dependence disguise because they kind of mirrort
what the others need. The distraction is going to at
(24:23):
marry half kids and pets that are the depression disguise
because the hyperactivity of a well of a distraction disguise
moving all the time. Their biggest fear is a depression
disguise has kind of collapsed and pulled in. But they
end up attracting each other and then being at war
(24:43):
with each other until they befriend each other, and then
the wisdom's able to shine through. So there's kind of
a typology in this that's a lot of fun to understand.
And when we kind of take it to the level
of typology, it's not personal these disguises because we're all
conditioned around it to as a defense making us. So
(25:04):
you have a right to defend ourselves until we know better.
You know, we have another way, y'all. Be kind to
each other. This is all I'm gonna say. Be kind,
be kind, be kind, be kind. Doctor King is trying
to help y'all understand that we are all carrying this
(25:27):
shit over around. We'll be kind. The name of doctor
Ruth King. I'm a doctor. Yes, No, I'm not a doctor. No,
because she is a doctor's she is healing the people today. King. Okay, Yes,
and there you are annoying to And if somebody somebody
(25:48):
want to fight me, fight me, join you on a night.
I bet I haven't see me in the street, see
me in a streat at a place right there in
the back alley. We could just go right there. I've
been there many times. We're gonna take a quick break
and then we'll be right back the name of doctor
(26:20):
Ruth King's book. The book is Healing Rage Women, Making
Inner Peace Possible. Inner Peace man o, Inner Peace Woman.
That thing it just sounds good. It's got a good
vibration on an inner piece, like an easy thing. But
(26:42):
it does sound good. It does. It feels good. It
sounds good, and nobody said it was easy. Yeah, it
just sounds like hard. It seems like a lot of
self reflection and a lot of opening opening the zipper
and letting your whole self come on out and dealing
with things bit by bit. My talk good about the
same thing is it's just like when you when you go, um,
(27:05):
it's there. It's like a it's this like a prayer.
I mean, it's all the things. Huh you said, it's dancing,
it's like a prayer circle. Or women also or telling
their stories oh yeah, oh yeah. And then we're also
interrupting some of the habitual ways, you know, all of
the all of the automatic assumptions and automatic things that
(27:26):
come out of our mouth. Like I remember growing up
when um my mother used to say, you better shut
your mouth, you know, get in that corner and shut
your mouth right. And now I find myself telling my
grand and great crimp and kids. You better get in
that corner and take a breath, you know, you know,
(27:48):
you don't have to shut your mouth, but you can't
take a deep breath and talk at the same time.
So it's kind of the same thing, but it's given
more permission to just Hey, come on back home, coming
back here. Right, that's a beautiful evolution that a lot
of your peers have not evolved to. So how on
(28:12):
the daily just how do you deal with that? Having
all this knowledge, knowing about rage? And it's interesting even
what Asia said, you know, be kind to each other.
I feel like the folks who are conscious of all
these things that you're telling us, yes, we will be
kind to each other. But there's a whole population out
there people who are not conscious of all the rage
(28:32):
and the meanings, and black people and black women in
rage and on the daily when you go outside, Yeah,
what are some easy I don't even want to say easy.
How do you code? Yeah? Yeah, it takes a minute, right,
I mean, I don't think this is like a quick six.
You have to want it bad. You have to want
(28:53):
peace bad, right, Like, so what gets you to that?
You know, like, um, it's hard to talk to people
that are in a perpetual states of crises to sit
down and take a breath. But you almost need to
be in that habit where you discover that stillness and
(29:16):
silence is one of the best medicines you can give yourself.
And in fact, you're the only one that can give
that to yourself. And and it almost feels like an
impossible consideration when life is so fast paced and so
challenging because of being like you don't deserve it, because
(29:37):
I yes, So you have to want it bad, right,
you have to you have to want it. So I
when I was twenty seven, I had open heart surgery.
It was a micro valve prolapse. I you know, I
had a baby when I was fifteen. I was a
single mom, and I we kind of grew up together,
(29:59):
and I just made tons of mistakes in that journey.
And as you continue to grow, if you're looking at
your children and you care, you know, you have a
minute to kind of step out of the craziness and
see your impact, then that's a beautiful thing. I mean,
that gives you often a reason to want to maybe
(30:23):
kind of try some things on differently. But the heart surgery,
what I realized in the recovery of it, where I
couldn't be in that fast paced, dominant disguise and distraction disguise,
or feeling myself up with so much activity that I
didn't feel my life because I was in recovery. And
I hear a lot of people talking about this today
(30:46):
who are going through recovery with COVID where they've been
forced to stop. Right. When you're forced to stop, you
kind of left with yourself and if you're listening, if
you have and oftentimes we're invoked into listening and kind
of surrendering into our physicalities more, we start to feel
(31:11):
the life we've been living if not running from right.
And when we start to do that, we start to
feel the achiness and soreness. Is why most people just
prefer to keep running from it of the life we've
been living, because it really requires we want to heal
that we make some different choices. And the first choice
(31:33):
I think we need to make is to pause, is
to pause, and to turn our intention inward and drop
it down, and to take a few breaths just to
give ourselves a break and to question right. I mean,
I think we have a lot of questions that we
(31:54):
need to ask ourselves, like, is what I'm doing right now,
is how I'm thinking right now contributing to more distress
or a release from distress? You know, given my thoughts
right now and what I'm heated up about, what am
(32:15):
I giving birth to? Because we're always giving birth to
something through our actions, through our attitudes. You know, is
there a way in this moment that I can comfort myself,
something I can do for myself that's not dependent upon
it coming from the outside. Can I hunt myself? Can
(32:37):
I swanfend the insides of my hands? Can I feel
my feet touching the earth? Can I travel with the
exhale of my breath just so I can rest just
a little right here and now? Little things like that.
I think we're invited to gentle ourselves and to wholeness
(33:01):
and to our own sense of health, but we have
to want it right. I don't know about everybody that's
listening to Jay Dadela podcast right now. I don't. I
don't know you know where you are. I don't I
don't know what you're thinking. And this might sound like, oh,
that's that whole tep shit. You know, you know, do
(33:25):
you have me tep tep okay um. What I'm gathering
about all of what you've said, doctor Kang, is that
that is that peace costs costs, you have to pay
for it. That doesn't mean, you know, financially, it means
(33:46):
that you have to give up something to get something.
Is that right? Or am I reaching invest in? Invest
in that? You say, say more about white you think
you might be giving up something or you have to
give up something? Say more, well, I say that our
(34:11):
ugliness is one of our favorite habits, because if it wasn't,
why would we be so ugly on a regular basis?
You know, I mean as humanity. I'm just speaking out
about all of us. And that means that you have
to give up the thing that you may enjoy the most.
(34:32):
Maybe maybe the the pain or frustration or rage, if
you will, shows up in alcoholism. Maybe it shows up
in um, you know, from oscurity, if you will. I
don't like that word. I don't like that word, but
you know, maybe it shows up in the mates that
(34:53):
you choose, what you what you do with your time,
you might really enjoy, you know, getting getting lit on
a regular basis. What you got to give that up? Gail?
Or you have to address it differently. Yeah, I'm glad
I asked you more of what you meant, because I
(35:15):
do think in that sense you have. The way I
would say it is, you have to want something more
than your habit, whatever that habit might be. You have
to Yeah, yeah, so I guess you could say you
have to give something up, but a lot of people
don't respond well to I got to give something up.
(35:37):
But if I could take it to the level of
you have to want something more, you have to want
something more than what you got in order, you know,
then maybe you'll consider that in order to have that,
something has to shift. So I have aunt who and
she and I will talk for hours about kinds of
(36:00):
different things. And a while ago and this kind of
stayed with me for a very long time when she
told me about, um, you know, I would talk about
my interactions with people, maybe my mate, maybe friends, maybe
my children, whomever. And she was like, you know, you're
kind of responsible for the place where you are an agent,
Like you know, if you ever enlighten yourself to a
(36:21):
certain level, you have to respond according to what you know.
So if you know a thing and you know, maybe
the person you're upset with doesn't know that thing. You
can then revert to respond to them the way that
you know where they are at. You have to respond
according to what you know. So if you know how
to handle it in a certain kind of way, your
(36:42):
response is a space you have, You're you're responsible to
respond in that way. Now, I want to put a
pin in that, because my real question is my real question.
You're not talking to your aunt right now, right, I know, right.
My real question is that, Okay, so you do that
for so many years you feel like, Okay, I can
(37:04):
access a certain calm, I can access a certain kind
of knowledge when I go out into the world. But
there's a I've had times where I've like envied people
who can just be mad, who can just can have
a grown up ass tantrum. Excuse my language. I'm sorry,
I really because I have a potty mouth who already
said some things, you know, she says. I know I'd
(37:26):
accustoded love. First of all, I love a potty mouth
black woman. I just understand that is the thing in
my heart that But my thing is that, you know,
sometimes I just want to be able to have that release,
like it's like, and then there are times when I
know part of my language. I'm old that and I
(37:47):
and I'm so used to subduing it out of responsibility,
out of a certain emotional responsibility, that I can't even
access the rage that I want to to have, have
that release. And sometimes that can be a really difficult
thing for me. And and a lot of times it
comes out as, oh girl, you got more patience than me.
(38:10):
Oh girl, are you so nice? I wish I was
like you, And I literally on an inside, am like
losing my ship. I've been called a pussy because of that.
Maybe I prove her kindness. I choose it. I do
the best I can wherever I can, because years ago
(38:33):
my mother married a man and the man wasn't a
nice man, and he was he was physically abusive, and
I acted out as a little person. So up until
about maybe twelve, I caused harm like I didn't fight.
(38:57):
I mean and I one day I realized if I
didn't catch this, I was going to go to jail.
And that made me decide that I was going to
do the best I can to do anything I can
not to physically harm anybody. Because it was pretty bad.
(39:20):
I will say so. I I do believe in going
outside and put my feet in the grass and scream aloud,
I do have my mountain. Y'all opposites in this moment,
and I go ahead, and my shooting gun m in
this moment. As as Asia just said what she said,
(39:42):
you say, well, you say what you say, you go ahead. Now,
I just I was just I was listening to the
bother room and I was listening to how Asia is
basically saying that she suppresses and then come out to
others as her being soft. And I was listening to
Jill say that she must suppress or else she will
(40:04):
fucking kill somebody. H So that that's what I heard.
But Ruth, what is your interpret take? Well, you know, yes,
and yes, here's a thing. I mean, range is a
legitimate emotion, the energy of it, the stories that run
in our minds, that it stimulates and circulates around the
(40:27):
truth of it, you know. Um, And then we're left
with them what do we do next? What do we
do next? And I think what we do next becomes
a kind of dance. It's a cop of cosmic dance
because we are relational in all of our outputting and thoughts.
(40:52):
So it's what we do next. So if you have.
You're saying one thing and feeling another. This boiling that
can happen inside. It's it's for you to attend to.
You know, maybe maybe the response is right jel if
(41:13):
you're like choosing to be nice, but it still feels
like it's cooking on the inside. Right there's so they're
still rage happening. I think nice and kind are two
different things. Okay, so being kind and nice, how are
you seeing a different I just want to be clear.
Nice is like polite. Um, you don't actually have to
(41:34):
feel that way. You could just be like, hello, good morning,
how are you today. You don't mean it, you're not
really asking you, but you're being nice, And then kind
um is a lot more genuine. I gotta deep, dig
down in now and fine of fine where sometimes it's deep,
(41:55):
sometimes it's right at the surface. But I look for it,
like what is the thing that's going to keep me
out of jail? Out of jail? Okay? So the prisons girl,
when they take them away, what were doing? How what's
(42:15):
the motivation gonna be? I don't know. I'll find another
one because I don't like that. I don't I don't
particularly like that girl. I don't particularly care for her
because the way she responded and I'm saying it like,
it's not not me, but okay, the way I responded
as a child was not to me, Qui I wasn't
(42:36):
gonna live very long, and you know, yeah, yeah it was.
It was. It was all kinds of stuff violent that
I it's it's so you're choosing kindness, and the motivation
behind it is to keep your ass out of jail.
So I'm listening to that piece. Yeah, the motivation around
(42:58):
my kindness these days is because I feel better. It
does feel good when I make that choice. That's a
different aspiration, that's a different energy behind it. It's because
I'm not imprisoned with how I'm holding and being with
what's happening right now. It's still screwed out, mind you.
(43:20):
I still think you're you know, you're not somebody I
want to be sitting on the front rule of my life.
But I still have a few things I'm going to
get around to saying to you. But right now I'm
choosing to stop prisoning myself with how I'm holding this energy.
So in those situations, I might just be sitting there
(43:40):
breathing for a minute and reminding myself of my intention.
So if the intention is I ain't going to jail,
if I say that, I won't go to jail, or
there could be that spin on it where you know,
there's a certain kind of distant politeness that's happening because
that person has the permission to go off. But I
(44:02):
know I can't do that, or its probably best that
I don't, Right, So I think in those moments, and
maybe not at that time, but at a deeper time
or a time when you can get yourself still and
ask a deeper question, like, you know, how do I
want to be moving in the world period? And what
does you know? What does kind? Kind is? I remember
(44:24):
being dead right, Okay, I was righteous. I was so
righteous about how I felt. Whether I said it or not,
people could read me like a book because I was
saying so much in my silence. You know, you know
how we can be with that look? Right? Yes? Yeah,
so I was rolling like that, but I had open
(44:44):
heart surgery. Okay, I'm telling you these kind of cooked
ways that we're holding it. If the intention is not
clean and bless, it is killing us is more worried
about how that kay and the rage that that's not
being like transmuted expressed. That's what I'm worried about too.
(45:08):
When Asia was talking about keeping that in, I kept
thinking to myself too, like there are so many people
out here that don't feel like they have the permission
to go off. So it's a continued suppression, like you
can do that. I can't. That's not something that I'm
allowed to do because or else if I do it, Oh,
I'm crazy. I'm this. It's gonna be a whole bunch
of other repercussions. But you're allowed to So I'm just gonnam.
(45:30):
And we're also using that language about death, having others
doing this this harm to you that would that your
body will respond to, and we're just talking about it
before you came on about saying to people you're not
gonna kill me. But what I'm getting from what you're
saying is that it's like, well, yeah, I gotta be
having that conversation with myself too. I will not I
(45:53):
will not do the harm to myself. So I mean
when you just feel like yelling, right, AGA, that means
yell when you feel like, don't always suppress that, then
that's what that means, right, I ain't gonna lie to you.
I'm gonna be transparent right now. I'm really I'm really
going through a period of my life where my filter
is leaving me and I see it come out in
(46:15):
certain kinds of ways. And I have been really like
I've been expressing to my children about it, like talking
to them about it so that they don't take it personally,
but it comes out. It's like I just tell them
all the time, like okay, listen. I know that maybe
you're not used to hearing me talk like that or this,
that and the other, but it's like, right now, my
(46:37):
ability to hold it it's not the same. And though
you may have not known me, you don't. You didn't
know me my whole life. You know me your whole life,
and then only half of that time have you been
aware enough to know me as a person. So like
this right now, you got to understand Mom is a
human and I'm going through a change in the way
(46:57):
that I relate to the world outside of my self.
And it literally just happened earlier today, Like I talk,
I just talk, and my older kids are like bloom.
I think what could be important when I think back
of growing up and the lack of filters that I
felt was in my family system. What could make a
(47:20):
difference is balancing that when you come out of periods
like that, that you flood that system with love and
when you talk about what you learned from you know,
one of the things you know, Like I talked to
my grandkids now about what I'm learning about myself when
I find myself in periods like that, because they're going
(47:41):
through really challenging times in their lives. And so I
find myself telling stories about when I was in times
like that. This is what I learned, this is what
I figured out when I was in that space, This
is what I'm discovering about myself. And and I think that,
along with the freedom to just say whatever you're saying,
(48:04):
helps the kids understand the fullness, not just the explosion. Right,
I amn't always like an explosion. Sometimes it's just an honesty.
It's just a or the way that I choose my
language where and yeah, very frank, Yeah, balance. So I'm
getting balance. But I'm also curious. And I know we
(48:26):
talked about this from a very kind of personal woman
to woman space, but so much of your work is
helping us to understand this, as in relationship to being black,
And I really want to talk about that because the
way that we read our behaviors and so, like I'll
(48:46):
go back to what you talked about earlier about these
six different ways, right, we read these behaviors of black
people as a whole and all of these kind of
trauma responses or these six different ways. I can even
look into us as a community and see those ways,
And I'm trying to help in my mind, I'm trying
to make a connection here around that, around the kind
(49:08):
of empathy that we can look at each other with
in our own kind of responses to rage, so that
we're not participating in a harmful conversation about how those
things are viewed, you know what I'm saying. So anyway,
I would love love to kind of talk about that. Yeah,
it's not an immediate solution to the way we roll
(49:31):
with our projections on each other because we're conditioned to
We're already dealing with internalized depression around issues often around
esteem or you know how much space we feel like
we can occupy different levels of people feeling they have
(49:51):
permission to come out without apology and other people, you know,
I mean, so this is complex to say to the least.
But I think when we understand, we get a system
in our own heads around how we're seeing and perceiving things.
We're able to talk to other people about that. Right,
(50:15):
So I like having systems of meaning in my heart
and mind so that I can make sense and kind
of I don't want to say analyze, but I can
kind of interpret what's happening in a loving way. A
bit part of what you're saying has to do with
is there a way for me to be with those
(50:37):
I love, those in my community, people in our tribe
and remove the judgment from it? Can I exchange judgment
for compassion? Yes? Can I see myself and everybody I
look at? Can I stand a little bit of myself there?
Because you know we can? Yes, And that begins to
(50:58):
develop and right in a certain kind of empathy and
intimacy with the craziness we might see, or this struggle
that we might see over here, or this addiction we
might see there. I mean, we've all been addicted to something. Right,
if we could train the heart mind to be in
relationship to our perceptions in that way, right to where
(51:21):
we put in the forefront, as you're saying, Jill kindness.
I'm choosing kindness, you know, I'm choosing to to to
see through the lens of kindness. Even the ugliness. I
can still filter it through this kind of light, this
this this way of holding people even I mean, I'd
(51:46):
see a lot of craziness in my own family. Don't
even get me started on it's just a lot, uh,
you know. But I want to what I try to do.
I have a sister who passed away a few years
ago of pancreatic cancer. It came and it hit her quick,
and she left quick. But she really was difficult and
(52:09):
hadn't talked spoken to me in many years. And I
did a lot of trying to connect with her. I
knew she was ill. I wanted to be there. I
wanted to kind of be with her. She wouldn't have it.
She wouldn't answer the phone, and she died. You know,
she wasn't trying to see me. You know, she died
without I felt a bit unfinished with her personally, but
(52:33):
I didn't feel unfinished in my own heart because I
understood she just could not get over the rage of
how she dealt not just with me, but with a
lot of people. But what happened. And this is a
promise I have for us always is that when I
went to the gathering for her in our family, it
(52:56):
was her kids that centered around me. Right, it was
them that I had a chance to hold in my
arms and comfort and tell them how precious they were
because they hadn't heard that from their mom. Right, it
was them that I had a chance to love up
without a lot of words, but just to be there
for them, and through my own example, right through my
(53:19):
own example, was able to show them an alternative, somebody
that could roll a bit more with their heart. So
I think we need these examples, you know, these kind
of pillars, and they're there in our communities. We need
to put them on the big lights and tell their
stories more often when we're putting our kids to bed
(53:42):
or sitting around the kitchen table, you know, tell those stories,
tell those stories of strength and tenderness to to you know,
we need that language back, We need our stories back.
We need to remember what we who we are and
how we all. We need to bring in the poets
and the you know, the the artists, more conversation after
(54:09):
the break. This is a dumb question. I'm assuming our
hearts have all been broken by our people, right in
some form of fashion, like just a little crack. We
always come back. It's never total broke, but like in
(54:30):
that frame of mind, like in a more general because
that's where I am in my head right now. I
have some heartbroken things generally about the interactions of black
men and women and some of the history behind it.
How do you how about that aspect of things when
you're dealing with your phone, your votes, and it's on
that level because you are so aware, so I know
(54:53):
at any given time you could be angry and if
you want to, yeah, don't, don't put me up there
on a pass. So because I'm feel like my market
breaks just like yours, I just think maybe because of
my practices or maybe my age, or because I'm devoted
to not suffering, that I made a kind of regroup
(55:16):
and getting myself back up again. What I what I like?
I just had a really challenging time. I just had
a great granddaughter, the second one, and you know it's
she's coming into a situation that's really challenging. And they
live in California. I'm in North Carolina. I went out
(55:38):
this weekend and planted a Japanese maple tree dedicated to her,
and that's where I'm going to be putting my prayers
and the earth around this tree. It could be a
potted plant in your room, you know, But it's kind
of a way that I'm just offering it up because
(55:59):
I can't fix it. Right, there's things we just can't fix,
but we we can't turn away either, Right. I'm not
my heart's not closed, and if it's hoping, I'm gonna
feel all of life. So that's the deal where you
make you go, Okay, I'm here. It is can you sit?
And this is a This is why meditation just comes
(56:20):
down so sweetly. Say it again, Ruth, say it again me.
The meditation just allows me over time, intraveniously, little drops
at a time, allows me to just sit with this
craziness without going crazy more and more. Okay, you're talking parables.
(56:42):
You're talking parables, and it is like that's my favorite
kind of talk. Baby baby, baby talk to me. Who
is so I mean doing really so effortlessly, and it's
about it. It's about practice. And honestly, like you know,
you know in my Alan Irison voices like this about practice.
(57:03):
It is another thing I just want to drop in
this because this is far from hopeless, right, Okay, I
know it feels like you gotta be the one to practicing.
But if there's enough of us practicing, that's potent. You know,
we're we're connected. You know, everybody don't need to send
(57:27):
to practice. Some of us can't do that. But if
there's enough of its practicing, that's rich, that's composted, suffering
into into soil, that's so sweet for our vegetable garden,
you know. Yeah, So if you're sending it them and
ten of us a singer, you want us are sending
(57:47):
and sending those prayers and offering up that light. Yes,
it's happening. And this is so beautifully anti capitalistic. It's
so anti all of this shit. No, seriously, because it's
like everything is so individualized. And you have said so
many times in this conversation and and circle back to
community and circled back into the importance of a gathering
(58:11):
of a gathering of minds, a gathering of practices. Right,
see how you have pulled this thing into you continue
(58:32):
to say this thing and it's like it is on
some level a thing that we have a hard time
wrapping our minds around. I read this, and I'm not
gonna get super deep into this, but I read this,
this study a couple of days ago about just like
the lot of aristocracy and how like that kind of
pulling yourself up by your own boot straps, and if
(58:52):
you work real hard, you're gonna get what you what
you work for. And now black people, you know, buying
into this da YadA, And what I walked away from
it was that this sense of like the collective power
that we have in our minds and what we will
accept and not accept is directly going to be associated
(59:14):
with our physical health and with the future, the future
that our children feel comfortable enough with demanding for themselves.
And so if we are not in our minds understanding this,
if we're not taking a step back from this kind
of individual way of thinking and this individual input outcome thing,
(59:34):
that this is not African. It is not good for us.
It is detrimental to us as a community politically, socially,
but more importantly physiologically, like it is going to be
to our detriment for many, many more generations. And you
saying this to me is so in line with what
(59:56):
I needed to hear and validating something that I it
really just read that I am understanding fully that it
was meant for us to have this conversation. And I'm
so grateful and I want to shout out Amber, our producer,
because she needs to be acknowledged in her bringing of
you into our space. Indeed, she needs to be acknowledged
(01:00:18):
this agree. She is the youngest of us and yet um,
you know, we have this thing with age, but she's
the youngest of us and exceptionally wise, she educates us
every time we have a conversation, and believe it or not,
this is the conversation we needed to day for a
lot of reason. It's so good. Well, I just want
(01:00:43):
you to know that it's it's happening. We you know this.
It feels like it's you know, our herolin is. You know,
sometimes it can feel like we're starting all over again everything,
but it's it's just not true. It's real, but it's
not true. You know. We are definitely have much to
(01:01:06):
celebrate in terms of our resilience and our artistry and
just the way our hearts just continue to shine. And
it's important to remember that what's I'm finished, just reborn
and at some point we we we really do want
to be that kind of generational legacy, and seed planting
(01:01:31):
is a big part of what we need to remember
that we're doing all the time, whether we're conscious of
it or not. Whatever we put out there gets seated
in it a bloom. So becoming more and more sensitive
to that is an important piece. And that's why the
rage retreat is returning. When room no, I can't read
(01:01:51):
you know this whole body, I have something. So what
you're saying is that when we get to come to
the training around how we can then bring that to
where we are you and carry on your legacy. I
love that. I do have a free webinar that I'm
offering around let's talk about race um how to work
(01:02:15):
with our emotional distress. So that's a free offering that
that's going on right now, a training half an hour
training for anybody that would like to begin to work
with how the nervous system and the brain and the
body is doing this dance and how to detangle so
that I would hope that serves. I'm so happy, and
(01:02:39):
then she is with I hope that serves. Yeah, I
love that. Yeah, guy, And this is where I start crying. Oh, okay, good,
And this is where it begins. This is why I
start crying because I'm even gonna lie to you like
(01:03:00):
you're giving my mother this entire time. So anybody who
lie you like you know my mom, like your face
and smile. It's like fully giving Susan And it is
like wowing me to hell out. But oh baby, you
set a lot of people at your feet today. Oh
(01:03:21):
I want them right here in my heart. Yeah, thank you?
How do you eat an elephant? One by it? Time?
Taking a moment to just massage my heart space after
(01:03:42):
that release of an episode, y'all, I am fangirling so hard.
I have been following Ruth King for over a decade
and having her on the show is literally just a
dream realized. I hope that you are all feeling a
little freer and giving yourself more grace and more space
to process whatever we go through. We're just not alone,
(01:04:05):
you know. Ruth is leaving us with so many juicy
goodies to continue our healing work. First off is a
free webinar Let's talk about race and what to do
with emotional distress. She also has a self city course
called Healing Rage Guidance that educates the heart and transforms
(01:04:27):
the mind. I'll drop a link to both of these
as well of all of Ruth's publications in the show notes, Happy, Messy, Beautiful, healing,
Love you Hi. If you have comments on something you
(01:04:53):
said in this episode, call eight six six Hey Joe,
if you want to add to this conversation, that's eight
six six four three nine five four five five. Don't
forget to tell us your name and the episode you're
referring to. You might just hear your message on a
future episode. Thank you for listening to Jill Scott Presents
(01:05:14):
Jay dot Ill. The podcast Jay dot Ill is a
production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the
iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your
favorite shows.
Welcome to Jay dot Ill, a production of iHeartRadio. Well, welcome,
Hi everybody. I'm taking deep breath. Sometimes you gotta take
a deep breath. It's been quite a week, you know,
lots of lots of stress and having to set people
(00:25):
straight here, there and all over the war. I am
here fortunately with my beautiful sister friends, Agia Grad and
Dan's I love that. Darling, Hello Doll, Hello Darling, and
the lovely lovely lies Saint Clair. I am present, he
is present, Yes, double all the meanings to that. I'm
(00:47):
Initially I was talking about stress, friends, but I am
I have I've definitely had some moments, and here is
one of them. Years ago, I guess it was like
nineteen ninety six. Oh that's how long it was. But
I still feel it in my body. Oh yep, I
still feel it. Apartheid had ended and they were doing
(01:11):
the whole Truth and Reconciliation Commission, remember that. And I
remember sitting there and I was listening to these stories
and it was like, you know, I'm I'm very sorry
that I put your daughter in a tire and I
poured gasoline on it and I set it on fire
(01:33):
and I rolled it down the street till it hit
your house. I'm sorry, I was wrong. And I got
about maybe about thirty five minutes into this and I
felt something. I still feel it. I feel this immense
amount of there's no there's no other it's only rage.
(01:57):
It's it's just rage because later here I am. I
was in South Africa, and there were times when you know,
I wasn't necessarily served immediately although I was there first.
You know, there were times when, you know, going through
the neighborhoods, I'm looking at this community of huts um.
(02:19):
That's the that's the only thing I could think to
call it right now, no disrespect police. And I'm hanging
out in Um. I think they call them shanties. Shanties,
thank you. And I'm hanging out and I'm in a
bar barbecue spot, and I have to go to the
bathroom and there's, you know, a hole in the ground,
and I gotta, you know, go to the bathroom in
this hole. And I just and then you continue on
(02:42):
in South Africa and it's like it's so much wealth
and I know that this this, this whole country was
stolen um and it just enraged me that these people,
these these murdering people were forgiven, forgiven, and they were
(03:03):
allowed to keep their land, They were allowed to keep
all all the benefits of being there. They were not
put in prison for murdering children and women and people. People,
just people murdering people. And I'm telling you that my
(03:25):
blood pressure went so high. I've never had a problem
with blood pressure, despite what some people might think. But
I've never had problem with blood pressure. But when I'm
telling you that my blood pressure went so high that
I could hear a sound because I thought, finally, finally,
somebody is going to pay for the atrocities done to
(03:49):
brown people. Oh so well, bless your optimism, my love.
Just I hoped. I hoped, and I hoped, and it
made me sick. Oh, today we're talking about rage, and
we have the privilege and the pleasure Layah or age.
(04:11):
If you would be so kind to please introduce this
beautiful woman, this this bright spirit that we have the
privilege of looking at. You guys don't but but you
must look looking fine, look and see if you would
please introduce her. M I gotta get myself together. Yeah, y'all,
y'all will definitely need to Google at this point of
the podcast to get into her to get into her light.
(04:35):
But y'all know that I'm not as gifted with the
intros as Joe Joe Growl because I have so many
thoughts on your on that I have so many thoughts
another a circle back. But so forgive me if I read,
because I just want to make sure that we say
the proper things about our current about our guests today.
Our guest today is Ruth King. So how she explains
it is that rage sits at the crossroads of personal transformation.
(04:58):
Those of us seeking more self aware will inevitably stumble
upon personal rage on the path. And rage is not
to be understood as a useless emotion. It's empty of
story or knowledge, but it's clarity and untapped fuel. Embraced
with compassion, the energy trapped in rage becomes an intimate
and empathic teacher, offering balance, integrity, and inner peace to
(05:20):
your healing journey, relationships and service. And so Ruth King
is the founder of Mindful of Race Institute, LLC. And
it's a celebrated author, educator, and meditation teacher. She is
an elder, a heart activist, African American with Chocta our roots,
great grandmother and Native Californian She currently resides on Now,
(05:44):
did I read this word right? Unseated Territory of the
Hataba Indigenous Nations in Charlotte, North Carolina, with her wife,
doctor Barbara Riley. There's so many more things we could
tell you about Ruth King, but you know, I had
to read that word for word because y'all needed to understand,
like what power she enters this conversation with. So, ladies
(06:06):
and gentlemen, welcome to j dot Il Ruth Kang. Baby
girls who needed such a Buddhism on this. You're beautiful,
All of you are beautiful, and you know, I just
it's a lot to be said, right, I mean, I
(06:28):
so connect in the seventy five year old body with
the generational rage inheritance right of what our people have lived,
what we still carry in our bodies. So I so,
(06:53):
you know, and it's not like it's that far away. Uh,
It's it's not like it's this thing that happened way
that them. So we see if we look, we see
the shape, the skeletal shape of white supremacy that impinges
on every aspect of our lives. And of course, I
(07:14):
mean one of the reasons rage is such an important
focus is it's it's so appropriate for us to have
the emotion of rage, and it's equally important to befriended. Right.
So yeah, right, So it's like, okay, so this did happen,
(07:37):
This shit happened. And the truth of the matter is
anything can happen to us at any time. We're vulnerable
in that way. Some of us, these black bodies, are
more vulnerable than most. So we're vulnerable in this flesh,
in this body, we're vulnerable. We're sensing if we're nature right,
(08:03):
we feel life where artists, we're creators, we give birth,
you know, I mean, we're all of that. So it's
no way to not be touched by our history and
not to inherit. What's I'm finished And one of the
things I talk about in my work after giving offering
(08:26):
a Celebration of Rage retreat for fifteen years across the nation,
a place where women could come and be in the
raw expression of rage, without consequence, without judgment, without projection,
in ceremony, in vibration, in emotional release, not just for catharsis,
(08:51):
but to rest then in the space that gets created
from the release of what we've been holding. Right, So
the eye. That's one way of being thinking about befriending.
How do I just climb back and reclaim this body
that I've been shocked out of right in a way
that I then can rebirth myself. But we don't get
(09:16):
to do it out there. We have to reclaim the domain.
So these rage retreats were places where we can be
in ceremony. We can be in sacred states to tell
our stories, not just to be heard, but to be
but to release the toxic inflammation that represents in our bodies.
(09:41):
We need ceremony for that, We need other bodies for that,
and we need to not be interrupted when that's happening.
We need to break some shit, tear up some rooms.
This retreat offered all of that, a place where you
can really, you know, kind of release through these bodies
a lot of that trauma. It already happened for the year.
(10:02):
The retreat I know, I'm like were happened. The retreat
happened for years. It was in the Bay areas, in
the Bay Area. Bay already vibrates someplace. Yeah, b yeah,
Oh my gosh, I'm surprised. I read a whole boar.
(10:25):
It was like a whole barnyard that had all kinds
of music equipment hooked up and big basin uh space
to dance, and we worked in blindfolds and we we
we really you know, we had altars and we moved
around like earth bound. More real talk after the break.
(11:01):
I hate to even interrupt. Oh my God, Lord, forgive me. Okay,
I want you to circle back to ceremony. Oh this word,
so I know that, like the special being word right
now is intentionality. But ceremony, Like, let's talk about that,
like why the need for ceremony? And I know you
(11:22):
did kind of speak to that a little bit in
your explanation. If you could expound on that, like what
is the importance of creating that specific space and specific
activities around release and rage? Oh that's good, that's really good.
So so um ceremony is you could say that it's
(11:43):
sacred community. You know, when we could sit in our
own room and read a book and get knowledge, but
when we're in community, intentional community, where we all know
why we're walking through this door. We all know why
we're coming. Y'all share that in common. It may be
dressed up differently, but we're all coming for that reason.
(12:07):
And the reason for this rage work was to investigate,
to release what's being held that's killing us, to release
it in a sacred place. And we need other bodies
to witness that, to not to that, to affirm that,
(12:28):
m to pray with us with that, to um, to
get that it's older and bigger than us. To ceremony
to me also brings them the elements of working with
the earth, planting this shit in the ground, burning up
some of the you know, using the fire element to
(12:49):
burn up some of the stories we carry that are
no longer true if they ever were, and look at it,
just some of the internalized ways we believed or drank
the kolid right. So we need places where we get
to aarate that we put it out, and then by
(13:12):
hearing other people's story, it's like, damn, I didn't even
know that happened to me, But that we wake up.
We wake up in ceremony again. If we come in
with intention, I'm coming in here. I'm interested in healing
more than I am and being right. Okay, you have
(13:32):
to want something more than your story. You have to
be willing to look at a bigger story and join
a bigger ocean, like we're all rivers kind of making
our way to the ocean. We're joining the ocean. Is
this something that's alike to like shouting in church or
you know, we talk about community, and you know different
(13:53):
groups of folks they talk about community or uma or
the fellowship, this kind of idea that this has to
happen under an umbrella of something bigger than ourselves. Well,
you know, I was raised in the Pentecostal church, saying
in the choir, there's a lot about what I remember
about the church was that growing up was that the
(14:17):
person who got happy and spoken times was not the
same person that needed to know what that meant. Oftentimes
the person that's spoken times, somebody else in the community
knew what that meant. So there was this call and response.
You see that also in the yodel of a tradition
when you go to the Bimbays and there's the dancing
(14:39):
and drumming and the African risha's are making themselves revealed. Right,
whoever is invoked in spirit is not necessarily be the
one that is bringing a message, but providing a certainly
energetic release that is recognized within community. So I guess
(15:01):
you could say that when you come into an intentional space.
Whether it's a church or a bimbay or a rage retreat,
you come in with intention. You're coming into holy ground,
you're coming into being held and whatever gets released, it
doesn't I mean, everybody's not releasing in the same way,
but everybody comes with the intention of letting go, and
(15:25):
a lot of people come with the intention of letting go.
They may not let go in that space, but they'll
let go at some other time, But it doesn't mean
it's not being cooked, right, So I think, yeah, there's
not a program of it. It's like you come in
the door and you open up to the sky and
(15:46):
you're you have permission and space to release, have that
be narrated so that you can then see something bigger
than what you can just see it from what it is,
and usually it's bigger than what's the story you're holding
about it, And so you come with a certain curiosity
(16:09):
to kind of open to that. Not with a heart
I got to know, but I'm willing to surrender and
see what this rage is here to try to teach me,
because there's wisdom in it. It's usually an energy that
helped us survive, but it doesn't always help us heal. Right,
so we have to survive but not necessarily heal. Woa
(16:34):
now that baby, Jill, Jill, go ahead, you know you
know how that is applicable. Come on, ma'am. It may
help you survive, get through it, but not heal, but
not heal. And you be running around surviving and believing
that you have coped, that you have made it. You
(16:57):
send messaging around having made it when you are simply
in survival mode, you have not healed, and you are
teaching other people your raggedy ass survival techniques. And it
goes from generation to generation and then something pops up
and all of the stuff from the other thing that
you've been holding onto explodes. The other thing about it
(17:22):
is that it's rage is initiatory, but it's not transformative.
So it's a kind of energy that lights us up,
sets us on fire. But it's a comma, not a
period you got you know, it's not transformative energy. It's
it's it's luminous. It's a lot of truth in it,
(17:47):
but it's not the endgame. It's not enough to just
be righteous in it. We have to listen deeply and
it belongs to us. A lot of times we think
it belongs to these folks out here, but it's really
trying to whisper in our ear. Hey. You know, it's
a protector in a way. It's a protective energy. It
alerts us to something, some boundary that's being violated, or
(18:11):
some story that hasn't been cared for a well, or
some ancestor that's trying to tell you to clean this
shut up so we don't have to keep carrying it
to the next generation. Right. I mean, it's a kin
to how the body responds to everything. Right, So like
the body does some wowshit to let you know something's
not working, something hasn't connected exactly. It puts fluid around
(18:35):
a joint, bam, you know, just trying to protect. Yeah,
I was watching them the other night. I watched it
again just recently for many reasons. But there was a
point where there was a brother in there and he
was being antagonized by his mind. I suppose that's the
(18:58):
best way I could call. He was being in agonized
by his mind, a memory of a thing not being present,
not being able to protect, and he at some point
this this expression of rage was just super powerful. He
was he was saying he was the beast of the field,
and it was it was grunting, and it was it
(19:20):
was spit flying, and it was tears and all the things.
I think maybe, I mean, that's one way to express
I think is that a scary for people because it
was scary watching. See, That's that's why we need some ceremony.
We need some sacred space for that kind of expression. Now,
(19:40):
one of the things I think is so important for us,
especially as women, to understand around rage is the way
we've been conditioned to disguise it so sour. Our immediate
association with rage is that image jil you just describe,
you know, a person that's you know, on er what
(20:01):
I call the defiance disguise of rage in my book.
But I'm talking about six ways we tempt to roll
with rage, to be like that all the time, right,
because it is scary to people, So we've learned ways
to kind of package that. So it's not helpful always,
(20:22):
but it's a cover on top of an emotion that
a we're afraid of and be we know it could
scared to shit out of other people, so we keep
it on the wraps and it takes on other shapes.
So there's these six ways that it shows up. One
is a dominance. We try to control everything so that
we're never controlled. So that's one form of a cover up.
(20:45):
I know y'all probably aren't going anything about that, but
it happens to be my primary. If I can just
control everything, I'm going to, you know, keep this on
the wraps. Another one is the defiance type, which is
the seething I'm out, I'm in your face, Um, I'm
(21:05):
I'm not having it kind of outward expression, which is
what we usually associate with with rage, but it's it's, uh,
you know, it's one way. And then we have distraction,
where we're busy all the time consuming everything in our reach,
(21:25):
trying to get get this, that and the other, filling
ourselves up with all kinds of material things to try
to feel what feels insatiable, right, this kind of craze
and craving that we think can keep us just under
wraps with rage. And then we have devotiony disguise of
(21:47):
rage as a person who's helping everybody at the expense
of ourselfs um as a way of keeping everything nice
and under wraps and let me just try to take
care of you and never quite taking care of themselves.
That's another way of kind of bypassing the fuck you
(22:08):
kind of way that we really want to bring it,
but we can't really feel like we can do it
that way. Too much truth, too much truth, roal, slowdown,
slow down, okay boo. Yeah, that part doesn't make a
lot of sense to me, because if you know, if
you're if you're trying to help somebody, but you're not
in a good way, like I guess that would have
(22:30):
to be so, and it's not really self aware because
I will go somewhere else, I will go somewhere and
get quiet on you real quick. I need help. I
need to I need to gather myself fuck because I
cannot imagine trying to help when I'm not. Okay, there's
two more. There is the depression disguise, which is someone
(22:51):
that shuts down to kind of like a teapot's seeping.
You kind of keep the top on, keep the lid on.
It's a heavy lid, but you walk around with this
kind of weight that's suppressing not just rage, but a
lot of other emotions. And then there is the dependence disguise,
(23:11):
a person who is never quite able to be of
her own voice because her dependent her survival is dependent
upon other people to take care of her, so she's
compromised on what she says and how she rolls because
(23:33):
of this kind of dynamic. I'm saying these quickly, but
in the book totally centers around these six disguises, their shadows,
and their wisdom, because they all have wisdom. So many
of our baby boomer moms were experience and would all
of them. You might identify with one or two, and
(23:58):
because they all have shadows, it'll look like you're identifying
with all of them, but you're not. It's usually we
roll with one or two as our lead, and then
we attract our opposites. Like the dominance disguise is going
to attract the dependence disguise because they kind of mirrort
what the others need. The distraction is going to at
(24:23):
marry half kids and pets that are the depression disguise
because the hyperactivity of a well of a distraction disguise
moving all the time. Their biggest fear is a depression
disguise has kind of collapsed and pulled in. But they
end up attracting each other and then being at war
(24:43):
with each other until they befriend each other, and then
the wisdom's able to shine through. So there's kind of
a typology in this that's a lot of fun to understand.
And when we kind of take it to the level
of typology, it's not personal these disguises because we're all
conditioned around it to as a defense making us. So
(25:04):
you have a right to defend ourselves until we know better.
You know, we have another way, y'all. Be kind to
each other. This is all I'm gonna say. Be kind,
be kind, be kind, be kind. Doctor King is trying
to help y'all understand that we are all carrying this
(25:27):
shit over around. We'll be kind. The name of doctor
Ruth King. I'm a doctor. Yes, No, I'm not a doctor. No,
because she is a doctor's she is healing the people today. King. Okay, Yes,
and there you are annoying to And if somebody somebody
(25:48):
want to fight me, fight me, join you on a night.
I bet I haven't see me in the street, see
me in a streat at a place right there in
the back alley. We could just go right there. I've
been there many times. We're gonna take a quick break
and then we'll be right back the name of doctor
(26:20):
Ruth King's book. The book is Healing Rage Women, Making
Inner Peace Possible. Inner Peace man o, Inner Peace Woman.
That thing it just sounds good. It's got a good
vibration on an inner piece, like an easy thing. But
(26:42):
it does sound good. It does. It feels good. It
sounds good, and nobody said it was easy. Yeah, it
just sounds like hard. It seems like a lot of
self reflection and a lot of opening opening the zipper
and letting your whole self come on out and dealing
with things bit by bit. My talk good about the
same thing is it's just like when you when you go, um,
(27:05):
it's there. It's like a it's this like a prayer.
I mean, it's all the things. Huh you said, it's dancing,
it's like a prayer circle. Or women also or telling
their stories oh yeah, oh yeah. And then we're also
interrupting some of the habitual ways, you know, all of
the all of the automatic assumptions and automatic things that
(27:26):
come out of our mouth. Like I remember growing up
when um my mother used to say, you better shut
your mouth, you know, get in that corner and shut
your mouth right. And now I find myself telling my
grand and great crimp and kids. You better get in
that corner and take a breath, you know, you know,
(27:48):
you don't have to shut your mouth, but you can't
take a deep breath and talk at the same time.
So it's kind of the same thing, but it's given
more permission to just Hey, come on back home, coming
back here. Right, that's a beautiful evolution that a lot
of your peers have not evolved to. So how on
(28:12):
the daily just how do you deal with that? Having
all this knowledge, knowing about rage? And it's interesting even
what Asia said, you know, be kind to each other.
I feel like the folks who are conscious of all
these things that you're telling us, yes, we will be
kind to each other. But there's a whole population out
there people who are not conscious of all the rage
(28:32):
and the meanings, and black people and black women in
rage and on the daily when you go outside, Yeah,
what are some easy I don't even want to say easy.
How do you code? Yeah? Yeah, it takes a minute, right,
I mean, I don't think this is like a quick six.
You have to want it bad. You have to want
(28:53):
peace bad, right, Like, so what gets you to that?
You know, like, um, it's hard to talk to people
that are in a perpetual states of crises to sit
down and take a breath. But you almost need to
be in that habit where you discover that stillness and
(29:16):
silence is one of the best medicines you can give yourself.
And in fact, you're the only one that can give
that to yourself. And and it almost feels like an
impossible consideration when life is so fast paced and so
challenging because of being like you don't deserve it, because
(29:37):
I yes, So you have to want it bad, right,
you have to you have to want it. So I
when I was twenty seven, I had open heart surgery.
It was a micro valve prolapse. I you know, I
had a baby when I was fifteen. I was a
single mom, and I we kind of grew up together,
(29:59):
and I just made tons of mistakes in that journey.
And as you continue to grow, if you're looking at
your children and you care, you know, you have a
minute to kind of step out of the craziness and
see your impact, then that's a beautiful thing. I mean,
that gives you often a reason to want to maybe
(30:23):
kind of try some things on differently. But the heart surgery,
what I realized in the recovery of it, where I
couldn't be in that fast paced, dominant disguise and distraction disguise,
or feeling myself up with so much activity that I
didn't feel my life because I was in recovery. And
I hear a lot of people talking about this today
(30:46):
who are going through recovery with COVID where they've been
forced to stop. Right. When you're forced to stop, you
kind of left with yourself and if you're listening, if
you have and oftentimes we're invoked into listening and kind
of surrendering into our physicalities more, we start to feel
(31:11):
the life we've been living if not running from right.
And when we start to do that, we start to
feel the achiness and soreness. Is why most people just
prefer to keep running from it of the life we've
been living, because it really requires we want to heal
that we make some different choices. And the first choice
(31:33):
I think we need to make is to pause, is
to pause, and to turn our intention inward and drop
it down, and to take a few breaths just to
give ourselves a break and to question right. I mean,
I think we have a lot of questions that we
(31:54):
need to ask ourselves, like, is what I'm doing right now,
is how I'm thinking right now contributing to more distress
or a release from distress? You know, given my thoughts
right now and what I'm heated up about, what am
(32:15):
I giving birth to? Because we're always giving birth to
something through our actions, through our attitudes. You know, is
there a way in this moment that I can comfort myself,
something I can do for myself that's not dependent upon
it coming from the outside. Can I hunt myself? Can
(32:37):
I swanfend the insides of my hands? Can I feel
my feet touching the earth? Can I travel with the
exhale of my breath just so I can rest just
a little right here and now? Little things like that.
I think we're invited to gentle ourselves and to wholeness
(33:01):
and to our own sense of health, but we have
to want it right. I don't know about everybody that's
listening to Jay Dadela podcast right now. I don't. I
don't know you know where you are. I don't I
don't know what you're thinking. And this might sound like, oh,
that's that whole tep shit. You know, you know, do
(33:25):
you have me tep tep okay um. What I'm gathering
about all of what you've said, doctor Kang, is that
that is that peace costs costs, you have to pay
for it. That doesn't mean, you know, financially, it means
(33:46):
that you have to give up something to get something.
Is that right? Or am I reaching invest in? Invest
in that? You say, say more about white you think
you might be giving up something or you have to
give up something? Say more, well, I say that our
(34:11):
ugliness is one of our favorite habits, because if it wasn't,
why would we be so ugly on a regular basis?
You know, I mean as humanity. I'm just speaking out
about all of us. And that means that you have
to give up the thing that you may enjoy the most.
(34:32):
Maybe maybe the the pain or frustration or rage, if
you will, shows up in alcoholism. Maybe it shows up
in um, you know, from oscurity, if you will. I
don't like that word. I don't like that word, but
you know, maybe it shows up in the mates that
(34:53):
you choose, what you what you do with your time,
you might really enjoy, you know, getting getting lit on
a regular basis. What you got to give that up? Gail?
Or you have to address it differently. Yeah, I'm glad
I asked you more of what you meant, because I
(35:15):
do think in that sense you have. The way I
would say it is, you have to want something more
than your habit, whatever that habit might be. You have
to Yeah, yeah, so I guess you could say you
have to give something up, but a lot of people
don't respond well to I got to give something up.
(35:37):
But if I could take it to the level of
you have to want something more, you have to want
something more than what you got in order, you know,
then maybe you'll consider that in order to have that,
something has to shift. So I have aunt who and
she and I will talk for hours about kinds of
(36:00):
different things. And a while ago and this kind of
stayed with me for a very long time when she
told me about, um, you know, I would talk about
my interactions with people, maybe my mate, maybe friends, maybe
my children, whomever. And she was like, you know, you're
kind of responsible for the place where you are an agent,
Like you know, if you ever enlighten yourself to a
(36:21):
certain level, you have to respond according to what you know.
So if you know a thing and you know, maybe
the person you're upset with doesn't know that thing. You
can then revert to respond to them the way that
you know where they are at. You have to respond
according to what you know. So if you know how
to handle it in a certain kind of way, your
(36:42):
response is a space you have, You're you're responsible to
respond in that way. Now, I want to put a
pin in that, because my real question is my real question.
You're not talking to your aunt right now, right, I know, right.
My real question is that, Okay, so you do that
for so many years you feel like, Okay, I can
(37:04):
access a certain calm, I can access a certain kind
of knowledge when I go out into the world. But
there's a I've had times where I've like envied people
who can just be mad, who can just can have
a grown up ass tantrum. Excuse my language. I'm sorry,
I really because I have a potty mouth who already
said some things, you know, she says. I know I'd
(37:26):
accustoded love. First of all, I love a potty mouth
black woman. I just understand that is the thing in
my heart that But my thing is that, you know,
sometimes I just want to be able to have that release,
like it's like, and then there are times when I
know part of my language. I'm old that and I
(37:47):
and I'm so used to subduing it out of responsibility,
out of a certain emotional responsibility, that I can't even
access the rage that I want to to have, have
that release. And sometimes that can be a really difficult
thing for me. And and a lot of times it
comes out as, oh girl, you got more patience than me.
(38:10):
Oh girl, are you so nice? I wish I was
like you, And I literally on an inside, am like
losing my ship. I've been called a pussy because of that.
Maybe I prove her kindness. I choose it. I do
the best I can wherever I can, because years ago
(38:33):
my mother married a man and the man wasn't a
nice man, and he was he was physically abusive, and
I acted out as a little person. So up until
about maybe twelve, I caused harm like I didn't fight.
(38:57):
I mean and I one day I realized if I
didn't catch this, I was going to go to jail.
And that made me decide that I was going to
do the best I can to do anything I can
not to physically harm anybody. Because it was pretty bad.
(39:20):
I will say so. I I do believe in going
outside and put my feet in the grass and scream aloud,
I do have my mountain. Y'all opposites in this moment,
and I go ahead, and my shooting gun m in
this moment. As as Asia just said what she said,
(39:42):
you say, well, you say what you say, you go ahead. Now,
I just I was just I was listening to the
bother room and I was listening to how Asia is
basically saying that she suppresses and then come out to
others as her being soft. And I was listening to
Jill say that she must suppress or else she will
(40:04):
fucking kill somebody. H So that that's what I heard.
But Ruth, what is your interpret take? Well, you know, yes,
and yes, here's a thing. I mean, range is a
legitimate emotion, the energy of it, the stories that run
in our minds, that it stimulates and circulates around the
(40:27):
truth of it, you know. Um, And then we're left
with them what do we do next? What do we
do next? And I think what we do next becomes
a kind of dance. It's a cop of cosmic dance
because we are relational in all of our outputting and thoughts.
(40:52):
So it's what we do next. So if you have.
You're saying one thing and feeling another. This boiling that
can happen inside. It's it's for you to attend to.
You know, maybe maybe the response is right jel if
(41:13):
you're like choosing to be nice, but it still feels
like it's cooking on the inside. Right there's so they're
still rage happening. I think nice and kind are two
different things. Okay, so being kind and nice, how are
you seeing a different I just want to be clear.
Nice is like polite. Um, you don't actually have to
(41:34):
feel that way. You could just be like, hello, good morning,
how are you today. You don't mean it, you're not
really asking you, but you're being nice, And then kind
um is a lot more genuine. I gotta deep, dig
down in now and fine of fine where sometimes it's deep,
(41:55):
sometimes it's right at the surface. But I look for it,
like what is the thing that's going to keep me
out of jail? Out of jail? Okay? So the prisons girl,
when they take them away, what were doing? How what's
(42:15):
the motivation gonna be? I don't know. I'll find another
one because I don't like that. I don't I don't
particularly like that girl. I don't particularly care for her
because the way she responded and I'm saying it like,
it's not not me, but okay, the way I responded
as a child was not to me, Qui I wasn't
(42:36):
gonna live very long, and you know, yeah, yeah it was.
It was. It was all kinds of stuff violent that
I it's it's so you're choosing kindness, and the motivation
behind it is to keep your ass out of jail.
So I'm listening to that piece. Yeah, the motivation around
(42:58):
my kindness these days is because I feel better. It
does feel good when I make that choice. That's a
different aspiration, that's a different energy behind it. It's because
I'm not imprisoned with how I'm holding and being with
what's happening right now. It's still screwed out, mind you.
(43:20):
I still think you're you know, you're not somebody I
want to be sitting on the front rule of my life.
But I still have a few things I'm going to
get around to saying to you. But right now I'm
choosing to stop prisoning myself with how I'm holding this energy.
So in those situations, I might just be sitting there
(43:40):
breathing for a minute and reminding myself of my intention.
So if the intention is I ain't going to jail,
if I say that, I won't go to jail, or
there could be that spin on it where you know,
there's a certain kind of distant politeness that's happening because
that person has the permission to go off. But I
(44:02):
know I can't do that, or its probably best that
I don't, Right, So I think in those moments, and
maybe not at that time, but at a deeper time
or a time when you can get yourself still and
ask a deeper question, like, you know, how do I
want to be moving in the world period? And what
does you know? What does kind? Kind is? I remember
(44:24):
being dead right, Okay, I was righteous. I was so
righteous about how I felt. Whether I said it or not,
people could read me like a book because I was
saying so much in my silence. You know, you know
how we can be with that look? Right? Yes? Yeah,
so I was rolling like that, but I had open
(44:44):
heart surgery. Okay, I'm telling you these kind of cooked
ways that we're holding it. If the intention is not
clean and bless, it is killing us is more worried
about how that kay and the rage that that's not
being like transmuted expressed. That's what I'm worried about too.
(45:08):
When Asia was talking about keeping that in, I kept
thinking to myself too, like there are so many people
out here that don't feel like they have the permission
to go off. So it's a continued suppression, like you
can do that. I can't. That's not something that I'm
allowed to do because or else if I do it, Oh,
I'm crazy. I'm this. It's gonna be a whole bunch
of other repercussions. But you're allowed to So I'm just gonnam.
(45:30):
And we're also using that language about death, having others
doing this this harm to you that would that your
body will respond to, and we're just talking about it
before you came on about saying to people you're not
gonna kill me. But what I'm getting from what you're
saying is that it's like, well, yeah, I gotta be
having that conversation with myself too. I will not I
(45:53):
will not do the harm to myself. So I mean
when you just feel like yelling, right, AGA, that means
yell when you feel like, don't always suppress that, then
that's what that means, right, I ain't gonna lie to you.
I'm gonna be transparent right now. I'm really I'm really
going through a period of my life where my filter
is leaving me and I see it come out in
(46:15):
certain kinds of ways. And I have been really like
I've been expressing to my children about it, like talking
to them about it so that they don't take it personally,
but it comes out. It's like I just tell them
all the time, like okay, listen. I know that maybe
you're not used to hearing me talk like that or this,
that and the other, but it's like, right now, my
(46:37):
ability to hold it it's not the same. And though
you may have not known me, you don't. You didn't
know me my whole life. You know me your whole life,
and then only half of that time have you been
aware enough to know me as a person. So like
this right now, you got to understand Mom is a
human and I'm going through a change in the way
(46:57):
that I relate to the world outside of my self.
And it literally just happened earlier today, Like I talk,
I just talk, and my older kids are like bloom.
I think what could be important when I think back
of growing up and the lack of filters that I
felt was in my family system. What could make a
(47:20):
difference is balancing that when you come out of periods
like that, that you flood that system with love and
when you talk about what you learned from you know,
one of the things you know, Like I talked to
my grandkids now about what I'm learning about myself when
I find myself in periods like that, because they're going
(47:41):
through really challenging times in their lives. And so I
find myself telling stories about when I was in times
like that. This is what I learned, this is what
I figured out when I was in that space, This
is what I'm discovering about myself. And and I think that,
along with the freedom to just say whatever you're saying,
(48:04):
helps the kids understand the fullness, not just the explosion. Right,
I amn't always like an explosion. Sometimes it's just an honesty.
It's just a or the way that I choose my
language where and yeah, very frank, Yeah, balance. So I'm
getting balance. But I'm also curious. And I know we
(48:26):
talked about this from a very kind of personal woman
to woman space, but so much of your work is
helping us to understand this, as in relationship to being black,
And I really want to talk about that because the
way that we read our behaviors and so, like I'll
(48:46):
go back to what you talked about earlier about these
six different ways, right, we read these behaviors of black
people as a whole and all of these kind of
trauma responses or these six different ways. I can even
look into us as a community and see those ways,
And I'm trying to help in my mind, I'm trying
to make a connection here around that, around the kind
(49:08):
of empathy that we can look at each other with
in our own kind of responses to rage, so that
we're not participating in a harmful conversation about how those
things are viewed, you know what I'm saying. So anyway,
I would love love to kind of talk about that. Yeah,
it's not an immediate solution to the way we roll
(49:31):
with our projections on each other because we're conditioned to
We're already dealing with internalized depression around issues often around
esteem or you know how much space we feel like
we can occupy different levels of people feeling they have
(49:51):
permission to come out without apology and other people, you know,
I mean, so this is complex to say to the least.
But I think when we understand, we get a system
in our own heads around how we're seeing and perceiving things.
We're able to talk to other people about that. Right,
(50:15):
So I like having systems of meaning in my heart
and mind so that I can make sense and kind
of I don't want to say analyze, but I can
kind of interpret what's happening in a loving way. A
bit part of what you're saying has to do with
is there a way for me to be with those
(50:37):
I love, those in my community, people in our tribe
and remove the judgment from it? Can I exchange judgment
for compassion? Yes? Can I see myself and everybody I
look at? Can I stand a little bit of myself there?
Because you know we can? Yes, And that begins to
(50:58):
develop and right in a certain kind of empathy and
intimacy with the craziness we might see, or this struggle
that we might see over here, or this addiction we
might see there. I mean, we've all been addicted to something. Right,
if we could train the heart mind to be in
relationship to our perceptions in that way, right to where
(51:21):
we put in the forefront, as you're saying, Jill kindness.
I'm choosing kindness, you know, I'm choosing to to to
see through the lens of kindness. Even the ugliness. I
can still filter it through this kind of light, this
this this way of holding people even I mean, I'd
(51:46):
see a lot of craziness in my own family. Don't
even get me started on it's just a lot, uh,
you know. But I want to what I try to do.
I have a sister who passed away a few years
ago of pancreatic cancer. It came and it hit her quick,
and she left quick. But she really was difficult and
(52:09):
hadn't talked spoken to me in many years. And I
did a lot of trying to connect with her. I
knew she was ill. I wanted to be there. I
wanted to kind of be with her. She wouldn't have it.
She wouldn't answer the phone, and she died. You know,
she wasn't trying to see me. You know, she died
without I felt a bit unfinished with her personally, but
(52:33):
I didn't feel unfinished in my own heart because I
understood she just could not get over the rage of
how she dealt not just with me, but with a
lot of people. But what happened. And this is a
promise I have for us always is that when I
went to the gathering for her in our family, it
(52:56):
was her kids that centered around me. Right, it was
them that I had a chance to hold in my
arms and comfort and tell them how precious they were
because they hadn't heard that from their mom. Right, it
was them that I had a chance to love up
without a lot of words, but just to be there
for them, and through my own example, right through my
(53:19):
own example, was able to show them an alternative, somebody
that could roll a bit more with their heart. So
I think we need these examples, you know, these kind
of pillars, and they're there in our communities. We need
to put them on the big lights and tell their
stories more often when we're putting our kids to bed
(53:42):
or sitting around the kitchen table, you know, tell those stories,
tell those stories of strength and tenderness to to you know,
we need that language back, We need our stories back.
We need to remember what we who we are and
how we all. We need to bring in the poets
and the you know, the the artists, more conversation after
(54:09):
the break. This is a dumb question. I'm assuming our
hearts have all been broken by our people, right in
some form of fashion, like just a little crack. We
always come back. It's never total broke, but like in
(54:30):
that frame of mind, like in a more general because
that's where I am in my head right now. I
have some heartbroken things generally about the interactions of black
men and women and some of the history behind it.
How do you how about that aspect of things when
you're dealing with your phone, your votes, and it's on
that level because you are so aware, so I know
(54:53):
at any given time you could be angry and if
you want to, yeah, don't, don't put me up there
on a pass. So because I'm feel like my market
breaks just like yours, I just think maybe because of
my practices or maybe my age, or because I'm devoted
to not suffering, that I made a kind of regroup
(55:16):
and getting myself back up again. What I what I like?
I just had a really challenging time. I just had
a great granddaughter, the second one, and you know it's
she's coming into a situation that's really challenging. And they
live in California. I'm in North Carolina. I went out
(55:38):
this weekend and planted a Japanese maple tree dedicated to her,
and that's where I'm going to be putting my prayers
and the earth around this tree. It could be a
potted plant in your room, you know, But it's kind
of a way that I'm just offering it up because
(55:59):
I can't fix it. Right, there's things we just can't fix,
but we we can't turn away either, Right. I'm not
my heart's not closed, and if it's hoping, I'm gonna
feel all of life. So that's the deal where you
make you go, Okay, I'm here. It is can you sit?
And this is a This is why meditation just comes
(56:20):
down so sweetly. Say it again, Ruth, say it again me.
The meditation just allows me over time, intraveniously, little drops
at a time, allows me to just sit with this
craziness without going crazy more and more. Okay, you're talking parables.
(56:42):
You're talking parables, and it is like that's my favorite
kind of talk. Baby baby, baby talk to me. Who
is so I mean doing really so effortlessly, and it's
about it. It's about practice. And honestly, like you know,
you know in my Alan Irison voices like this about practice.
(57:03):
It is another thing I just want to drop in
this because this is far from hopeless, right, Okay, I
know it feels like you gotta be the one to practicing.
But if there's enough of us practicing, that's potent. You know,
we're we're connected. You know, everybody don't need to send
(57:27):
to practice. Some of us can't do that. But if
there's enough of its practicing, that's rich, that's composted, suffering
into into soil, that's so sweet for our vegetable garden,
you know. Yeah, So if you're sending it them and
ten of us a singer, you want us are sending
(57:47):
and sending those prayers and offering up that light. Yes,
it's happening. And this is so beautifully anti capitalistic. It's
so anti all of this shit. No, seriously, because it's
like everything is so individualized. And you have said so
many times in this conversation and and circle back to
community and circled back into the importance of a gathering
(58:11):
of a gathering of minds, a gathering of practices. Right,
see how you have pulled this thing into you continue
(58:32):
to say this thing and it's like it is on
some level a thing that we have a hard time
wrapping our minds around. I read this, and I'm not
gonna get super deep into this, but I read this,
this study a couple of days ago about just like
the lot of aristocracy and how like that kind of
pulling yourself up by your own boot straps, and if
(58:52):
you work real hard, you're gonna get what you what
you work for. And now black people, you know, buying
into this da YadA, And what I walked away from
it was that this sense of like the collective power
that we have in our minds and what we will
accept and not accept is directly going to be associated
(59:14):
with our physical health and with the future, the future
that our children feel comfortable enough with demanding for themselves.
And so if we are not in our minds understanding this,
if we're not taking a step back from this kind
of individual way of thinking and this individual input outcome thing,
(59:34):
that this is not African. It is not good for us.
It is detrimental to us as a community politically, socially,
but more importantly physiologically, like it is going to be
to our detriment for many, many more generations. And you
saying this to me is so in line with what
(59:56):
I needed to hear and validating something that I it
really just read that I am understanding fully that it
was meant for us to have this conversation. And I'm
so grateful and I want to shout out Amber, our producer,
because she needs to be acknowledged in her bringing of
you into our space. Indeed, she needs to be acknowledged
(01:00:18):
this agree. She is the youngest of us and yet um,
you know, we have this thing with age, but she's
the youngest of us and exceptionally wise, she educates us
every time we have a conversation, and believe it or not,
this is the conversation we needed to day for a
lot of reason. It's so good. Well, I just want
(01:00:43):
you to know that it's it's happening. We you know this.
It feels like it's you know, our herolin is. You know,
sometimes it can feel like we're starting all over again everything,
but it's it's just not true. It's real, but it's
not true. You know. We are definitely have much to
(01:01:06):
celebrate in terms of our resilience and our artistry and
just the way our hearts just continue to shine. And
it's important to remember that what's I'm finished, just reborn
and at some point we we we really do want
to be that kind of generational legacy, and seed planting
(01:01:31):
is a big part of what we need to remember
that we're doing all the time, whether we're conscious of
it or not. Whatever we put out there gets seated
in it a bloom. So becoming more and more sensitive
to that is an important piece. And that's why the
rage retreat is returning. When room no, I can't read
(01:01:51):
you know this whole body, I have something. So what
you're saying is that when we get to come to
the training around how we can then bring that to
where we are you and carry on your legacy. I
love that. I do have a free webinar that I'm
offering around let's talk about race um how to work
(01:02:15):
with our emotional distress. So that's a free offering that
that's going on right now, a training half an hour
training for anybody that would like to begin to work
with how the nervous system and the brain and the
body is doing this dance and how to detangle so
that I would hope that serves. I'm so happy, and
(01:02:39):
then she is with I hope that serves. Yeah, I
love that. Yeah, guy, And this is where I start crying. Oh, okay, good,
And this is where it begins. This is why I
start crying because I'm even gonna lie to you like
(01:03:00):
you're giving my mother this entire time. So anybody who
lie you like you know my mom, like your face
and smile. It's like fully giving Susan And it is
like wowing me to hell out. But oh baby, you
set a lot of people at your feet today. Oh
(01:03:21):
I want them right here in my heart. Yeah, thank you?
How do you eat an elephant? One by it? Time?
Taking a moment to just massage my heart space after
(01:03:42):
that release of an episode, y'all, I am fangirling so hard.
I have been following Ruth King for over a decade
and having her on the show is literally just a
dream realized. I hope that you are all feeling a
little freer and giving yourself more grace and more space
to process whatever we go through. We're just not alone,
(01:04:05):
you know. Ruth is leaving us with so many juicy
goodies to continue our healing work. First off is a
free webinar Let's talk about race and what to do
with emotional distress. She also has a self city course
called Healing Rage Guidance that educates the heart and transforms
(01:04:27):
the mind. I'll drop a link to both of these
as well of all of Ruth's publications in the show notes, Happy, Messy, Beautiful, healing,
Love you Hi. If you have comments on something you
(01:04:53):
said in this episode, call eight six six Hey Joe,
if you want to add to this conversation, that's eight
six six four three nine five four five five. Don't
forget to tell us your name and the episode you're
referring to. You might just hear your message on a
future episode. Thank you for listening to Jill Scott Presents
(01:05:14):
Jay dot Ill. The podcast Jay dot Ill is a
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