December 23, 2020 • 53 mins
Holidays can be joyful times of celebration and fellowship. But sometimes we end up participating in holidays that we have no practical or spiritual connection to. And in the U.S., some holidays have been commercialized and divorced from their historical roots. Laiya, Aja, and Jill shout out some Black holidays (like Juneteenth) as well as some of the traditions they've created and observe in their own homes.
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
Welcome to Jay dot Do, a production of I Heart Radio.
What's up everybody? Hi? How are you? I hope that
(00:25):
you're so good. Thank you so much for checking in
with us. Um this is Jay dot Elder Podcast and
I'm here with my sister friends, my strong powerful woman
Liah Sinclair strong and Powerful, Damn Straight and Aga Graydon
Danceler Woody, who I like when I say dance Dance.
(00:49):
That's a nice name. I wish I had more syllables.
I didn't get enough syllables. It's like, and I'm gonna
tell you that my mother put an exclamation point on
my birth certificate. Do you mention that to you? You
told me yes, So my name is really Jill Scott's amazing.
(01:14):
It really is, though, Like it really is. I I
enjoyed that choice. Your son King, that's a nice name.
It is a nice name. Yeah. My nephew's name is King.
It's short for Kingston, but we call him King. I
saw you had a pretty baby on the Instagram. A
(01:35):
that's your knee. She's so beautiful. First of all, my
sister in law, my sister in love. Yeah, I really
do believe that she was brought here to the earth
to make pretty babies because she literally has five little
girls and they are all adorable. Like she's a little
(01:57):
pretty black girl baby make machine. And she her latest
one is, ah, It's the icing on the cake. Her
latest one, her latest one. Listen, I'm like babies, they
take the socks off when they're handling napses. They take
(02:23):
the socks off. Yes, girl, yeah, you have a really
really big family, huh, I do for teen. My husband
is the oldest of six children, and this is his
sister who also now has six children, as we have
six children. But yes, so they are a lot of cooking.
(02:45):
Oh yeah, girl, you know I've cooked every day for
bazilion years, but now I don't do it anymore. I'm
gonna tell you what broke me this here pandemic. I
cooked every day for about three and finally I just
was like, I can't do it anymore. So I implemented
finn for yourself night. Oh and also I also look
(03:09):
hashtag like them kids. Okay, get um fit for yourself
now I'm just shaking my head, yes, sir. And then
was also just my older children had to take a
certain night to cook. So yeah, a lot, a lot
of cooking can you come from a big family like you. No,
(03:29):
it's you know, it's just me up in here. But
my mother and my father are both the youngest of
their bruise Like my mom's the youngest of five, my
dad's youngest of nine. And uh, yeah, this is it
for me. So I adopt people. I got a lot
of god brothers and sisters and whatnot. So the holiday
times is kind of uh, it's more relaxed for you
because how many people are showing up friends and family
(03:53):
or it depends. Last year we did the whole. A
lot of New York folks from my dad's side came
down and we had dinner at my mom's house. So
that was really nice. But to be honest, shoot, as
far as the Christmas holidays and the only child, we
cut that out about twenty five years ago after the
presents and we just decided to travel. We do our
own things on the holiday. That's delicious. My mama jealous. Yeah,
(04:18):
that's nice, So let's go somewhere instead. So now that
we started that little tradition, I'm trying to hopefully maybe
this year and maybe we'll do I don't know, I
don't want. I don't win when do you start preparing
for the travel? Well, Jill, as a daughter of a
flight attendant, that right, I'm like, that can vary from mommy,
we're gonna we're going this year, We're were going. Okay,
(04:41):
so come three a week before, we're gonna start packing,
and then and then a couple of days for that
we're gonna pick the flight to see what the low
look like. Oh this wight attended life is real. Yeah, yeah,
so you angel, you you've gotta, you know, cook for
a lot of people. Let me tell you something. Thanksgiving
(05:02):
was all I mean for years and two turkeys, isn't it? Well? No, not,
well it is if we go to family's house, if
we go over, we went up. We've gone over to
my mother in law's house many times. And then because
also too, I have a mother, we have bounced from
my husband's mother's house to my mom's house, until finally
I had so many kids, I was like, listen, y'all,
(05:24):
I don't feel like dressing all these kids, cart and
all these kids to go over to somebody else's houses
and eat, and then like, what is the leftover situation
gonna be? Like by the time I pack up food
from your house. I'd then packed up leftovers that looked
like a whole like I cooked. So I'm like, no,
I'm gonna cook at home. I sit there and feed
my children. I said, if y'all want to see these kids,
(05:46):
I bring them over for a dessert or something like that.
My mother with my mother and my family and my
in laws are like a family. They're close to. So
my my siblings and my mom are all close to
my husband's sibling and mother. So we have a bit
of a really good mixture. So we tend to spend
time together. And we also have two different religions in
(06:07):
our family. That's about because my mother, we don't celebrate
Christmas because we're Muslim. My mother and please don't get
mad at me for cussing and carrying on in this show,
like look, y'all can just save the emails now. I
(06:29):
cuss um so uh. And my mother's side is Christian,
and so typically Thanksgiving over the years would be the
time that we would end up altogether, but on on
the on the Islamic side, on the Muslim side, we
would do eat dinners and that would be that's the time.
(06:49):
Add there's two eads a year and a calendar Islamic year,
and so we would get together and cook and eat
for eat and then I just thought about that, Asia,
You've got a lot of how of the days, like
you got not hot with traditions. You got a lot
of traditions. And that's a lot of traditions. But it's
not that you know, it's actually a thing really good
for the kids because the kids get to just understand
(07:12):
about diversity within family and that, you know, blood ties
are stronger than cultural ties, and that you can still
really believe and do what you do and still be
able to be respectful of your family and things like that.
So I've I've loved over the years and my kids
have got an opportunity to do that. And the little
extra work is just that, hey, you know, you gotta
(07:33):
have an extra conversation. You gotta keep family on point,
make sure everybody is aware, you know, that kind of thing.
And even with Christmas, though my children don't celebrate Christmas,
they have family members who do so in the past
they may have, like you know, sent the kids a
couple of dollars or this that a dollar. You're about
(07:54):
to say, you the whole you hold your holder. So
that's I mean, not not now, but you were raised
that right for saw first. Sorry what I do. I'm sorry,
I'm sorry, I'm I'm they are called Jehovah's witness I'm sorry,
(08:16):
I shortened everything. I'm sorry to be called Jehovah. It
be like me calling aja Allah. Okay, and y'all not
a five percent of witness. I got it. Jehovah's witness. Yeh, Jehovah.
That's a black thing to out. Yes it is, it
(08:37):
is what it is. But they're Jehovah's witnesses. And um, yeah,
I grew up as a Jehovah's witness. Not because I
was baptized that's a Tehovah's witness, but because that's the
house I lived in. And as you know, you know,
when you grow up in the house, that's what you do.
You do whatever your parents are doing. So I grew
with my my mom and my grandma, and we definitely missed.
(08:58):
I feel like I missed out on a lot of
stuff like holidays and things until I got old enough
to catch the transportation by myself. Once. Once I got
old enough to hop on that fifty four and catch
the subway and then gone, and I forgot what other
bus I could I don't remember now to to get
to Mount Airy where would go to my aunt's house
(09:20):
and she would have Christmas there, so that man, I
got to eat the good Christmas food. I got to
play oh No all night long and laugh out loud,
and my aunt would always get me something. God blessed her.
It was never anything that I wanted, but the fact
that she thought of me meant a lot to me.
And until I got older and was like, hey, listen,
(09:43):
I'm gonna just want you to keep that, like, keep
that money in your pocket. You don't have to buy
me anything, you know. Um, But the holidays were really,
really fun, I thought, from not celebrating them to celebrating
I was like, this is cool. And then I got old, older,
and I was like, wait a minute, wait one minute,
(10:06):
talking about so Christmas is I don't know the exact
numbers right now, but when I was reading about it,
it was like Christmas was seventy three of America's economy
three and that was a long time ago. That was
(10:28):
a long time I don't I don't know, you know
what it was then, but that was enough to shake
my world up and asked myself, like, what am I
exactly getting into and why am I doing this? Um,
there's the stories, clearly, you know, we've all heard the
stories about Jesus and Christmas. Um, how number one, Jesus
(10:50):
wasn't born in December, So who made up December twenty
five as his birthdate? And why do we give gifts
and all of that jazz and where? Well, it wasn't
attempt Okay, So the historical implication of is that, Um,
(11:10):
it wasn't attempt. I know she would, I was setting
it up. We know this answer already, So I don't
appreciate y'all set me up as almighty. It wasn't attempt
for the king at the time. I want to say,
(11:33):
it's probably like Constantine or somebody who was trying to
spread Christianity but knew that the cultural and uh, the
cultural beliefs of the people where he was we're not
right in line with Christianity. At the time, they were
celebrating winter Solstice and uh something else I want to say,
(11:53):
called christ Mass or something like that. And so what
he decided to do was allow them to keep elements
of their cultural celebrations and mesh it together with Christian
tradition so that he could ease the people into celebrating
or practicing Christianity. So, um, that's how you get Christmas
(12:16):
in December. That's my understanding of it. St Nick comes
into the conversation. That's not how st Nick comes into
the conversation, but that is how stuff like uh you'le
tie greetings and things like that come into play. And um,
the like I said, the time period and things of
that nature. So yeah, and trees like a Christmas tree,
(12:39):
that's when the that's how the Christmas tree comes into play.
And garland and mistletoe and things like that. So yeah.
So that's where you have some Christians who over time
have actually stopped doing those types of traditions because they
understand it it's not necessarily a quote unquote Christian tradition
(13:00):
America at this point in American. But but now it's
very American because you do find people, like she says,
like a part of big part of the economy. So
people come here from other places and part of their
um embracing American culture is to celebrate Christmas. The music
is nice and the lights. I have always loved the lights.
My children, my little Muslim children, I've always loved the lights.
(13:23):
I've always loved the lights, and I've I've always enjoyed
the music and the getting together and the smells of
it all. I always thought that was so nice. Um.
But when I had my son, I think we had
Christmas maybe twice, and I just felt wrong. I just
I just didn't sit right for me, because you know,
(13:44):
we have all of these things, all of these holidays
that make money. Really, you know, think about it. I
wrote I wrote cars for Hallmark, Father's Day, Mother's Day,
Valentine's Day. You know, there's always the cards by the way,
because I know, I'm just saying every Mother's Day, Father's Day.
I was looking at something. So Christmas didn't feel right
(14:17):
one because I didn't grow up celebrating it. I got
a chance to participate in it with my Aunt Shirley.
Shout out to Aunt Shirley, who was so beautiful and
kind and loving to me. Miss you so much, um um.
So I got a chance to experience that. But when
I had my own child, I was like, do I
really am I really setting him up? You know? Do
(14:40):
I want to do? I want to tell him lie? Right?
I always wondered what how I handled this a parent,
I'm sorry, go ahead, you yeah, like you know, it's
it's not real, Like do you want to tell a lie?
And and not for nothing? The thing that you know,
I went around when my mom when she find decided
not to do it. I started to think too about
how I would have these amazing Christmas is come to
New Year. My mom was trying to figure out how
(15:02):
to rob rob Peter to pay Paul, and I was like,
that's not that's not fair. No. So when I was little,
what my mom used to do is she would wait
until Christmas was over and then we would go shopping
because it was all of the Christmas holiday stuff. And
I had gone back to school without doing the then
(15:23):
going shopping part. And I came back to school, I
had on the same clothes I had on the week,
you know, a couple of weeks before that, and all
the kids had new clothes. This was it messed with
me like, oh, you know, I felt jealous and I
felt like I was getting left out of something that
I wanted to So I didn't want to do that
(15:43):
to Jet. But I also did not want to lie
to the kid about these holidays. So I invented famists,
fam us fam yeah, faminess. You know. I was like, okay, Christmas.
(16:03):
But I was like, Faminist, family is family is what
are the things that I love about holidays or traditional
holidays in America? Um? Well, you know, you get together
with your family, you cook with your family, y'all, listen
to music, your dance, you play games. You know, somebody's
gonna you know, play spades or something like. We're going
(16:25):
to enjoy each other. And I was like, that's what
this That's what people really are, you know, inclined, that's
what they really love to do. It's it's it's the
family portion. So I was like, Okay, I'm going to
create a holiday that is about family. Family is the
only difference between Christmas and Faminists is it? Is? Well,
(16:48):
it's there's two differences. Instead of putting up uh garland
and we put up the colors of our of our culture.
So there's a lot of African flags around the house,
and we it up pictures of people we respect and
admire all around the house during the during Faminists, um, um,
we we have a tree, but our tree is black.
(17:14):
What the hell do you get that from? From the
home goods? Wow. Yeah, we have a black tree and um,
we put we put pretty much anything we want on
the thing thing. Sometimes it's pictures of us, sometimes it's
a cante cloth, or sometimes it's African flags depend you know,
(17:35):
all over the continent. Um, so there's pictures of people
we admire and respect, and then there's this black ash
tree and that we do do presents, but you have
to earn them. And how you earn a gift on
Faminists is you have to write a one page essay.
It can be longer, but it's a one page essay
(17:58):
about whatever you want to talk about, whatever you want
to talk about, and then we all sit after dinner.
We all sit and listen to one another speak out
loud and think out loud. So, you know, one year,
Jets was about raccoons because we had raccoons and our
you know, trash sometimes and what we found out from
(18:20):
his essay was that raccoons have sensories in their hands.
You know, they have five digits like we do, so,
but they have sensories. So when they touch a trash can,
they're like that is jelly? What else is that? Some onions?
And yeah, right, and then he's he's Okay, So the
(18:46):
essays have to be handwritten or I mean, they don't
have to be handwritten, but it's nice. I prefer them
to be handwritten. Once you read your essay, then you
get your gift or gifts depending because everybody, anybody can
if anybody a gift. But if you don't, um, if
you don't read your essay, you ain't get nothing. And
that's just the way it works. You don't get without giving,
(19:08):
and that's just the way it is. So we go
from listening to our elders to listening to the children
and everybody in between. So we get to our family
gets to hear us thinking about whatever we want to
talk about. It could be anything, and that is the
gist of families. It doesn't have any religious implications. So
(19:31):
my mother comes, she's a Jehovah's witness and she's like,
you know, she doesn't celebrate holidays. Um, but this doesn't
have any religious implications. So it's more of a family gathering.
It's family is families. So I think it works for
any culture, whether you're uh Indian, whether you're Italian. You know,
(19:53):
to have pictures of Italian people that you're respecting, to
admire all around the house, to have your tree red,
white and green. Um, to to sit and listen to
your family, you know think. So that's pretty much what
Familist is and that's what we've been celebrating for the
last five years. So last thing is because it's the
(20:16):
essays are on paper, I collect them and um keep
them in a little famous box. What's not little anymore,
but keep him in a famis box and it becomes
a family treasure. So I can look back and say, Okay,
in you know, uh two thousand and and you know twelve,
(20:37):
you wrote an art. You wrote an essay about why
you don't want to do homework or why you think
homework is unfair, you know what I mean? And you
get to also see your own hand right here, particularly
you know, particularly for the kids. Love that. How long
does it take to develop a holiday Jill Um, I
guess overnight if that's what you wanna do. I mean,
(21:00):
I wanted to take you to figure all those elements out. Well,
it didn't take long because I've been thinking about it
for years, like what is it that that bothers me?
What is it that that doesn't sit well with me?
That one this is such a big economic holiday that
bothers me. Um too, it doesn't have any basis in history.
(21:23):
And why not praise the Lord all year round, Praise
Lord's Praise Lord all year round. Whomever you decided you
call God based on information that you know or based
on your family and how they've taught you. Praise the
Lord all year round. Be grateful for for your creator
and creation all year round. But at this time, celebrate family,
(21:45):
Celebrate family, and ask of them to do something to
get something. Well, I mean, I'm gonna tell you, I
know that the being with family part, particularly for black folks,
(22:08):
is the pool for all of these holidays, you know,
because obviously even the question around whether or not black
people should even be celebrating Thanksgiving has come up in
my family in the past five years, as we talked
about that should we even be celebrating this, especially since
I have friends who are who are Indigenous, and they
just feel so deeply disrespected by that holiday. And so
(22:30):
for us, you know, as we all should feel deeply
disrespected by it. Um. But I think also to you know,
the idea of being with family for us, that's what
resonates it says. Okay, well, I just wanna. I'm not
even I'm not keyed into all of it. I just
want to be able to play bid with and eat
some good food and you know, and be around, you know,
my extended family. So I can really appreciate being intentional
(22:54):
about that, because you know, these are things that keep
us together, These are the things that keep us going,
and you know, all over the diaspora, but particularly here
in America, where it's like what is for us? But
I love the fact that in some states and here
in Pennsylvania, Juneteenth is now considered a holiday, an official
holiday here in the state of Pennsylvania. And for Tina
(23:15):
and I rode in the Juneteenth Parade last year, and um,
we were the Grand Marshall's doling Yes, Clive yars and it.
And it got me to thinking, I known about Juneteenth
a long time, but I had never really been really
intentional about celebrating it. Um and uh and again, um,
(23:36):
Black History Month in my household is a very big deal.
And I am the only person I know who decorates
for Black History Month. So I actually decorate for Black
History Month. So when you were saying to think about
putting up the pictures and stuff, I was like oh girl,
this is me or black history mouth like this is
how I am. And I love the fact that, um,
(23:59):
you kind of kind of came with your own family traditions.
I think that's super important that even though there's some
things cross culturally that we that we should continue to honor,
one of the real things that I feel like it's
important to honor is those things that become important to
your individual family and that, um, those are the things
you get to pass on from generation to generation, you know,
(24:20):
which is why stuff like family reunions are such a
big deal in our community and um, you know things
like that. Here's one thing I know I made up
that my kids and I did UM on Juneteenth, I
(24:43):
want to say, two years ago, was I decided that
I bought a very large piece of UM handmade and
hand printed UM mud cloth that has some cante woven
into it as well. UM. And this was what I
placed over top of my mother's casket. M Um. And
this is you know how she was there when when
(25:06):
during her service we I took that and out laid
it out on the table. It was and and what
I was telling the kids was that, you know, during slavery,
obviously we weren't allowed to learn how to read, but
we used to do these things called pit schools where
people would escape in the middle of the night and
dig a ditch in the into the ground and get
(25:27):
inside the ditch and cover it with leaves, and that
they would learn how to read at night in these
pits schools and these ditches. And one of the ways
they learned was by writing into stuff like flour and
salt m And so what I did was I told
the kids, I said, okay, here, we're gonna cover our table.
This is a um something to honor our particular ancestors.
(25:50):
And you know, my mother is an ancestor now. And
I sat out a little tray and I said, okay, guys,
I put the flower out. I said, this is our
way of our learn how our ancestors learned before they
were free to learn how to read and to learn
how to have their own self determination. And so I
was like, you can write anything in a flower that
you want. You can write the name of an ancestor,
(26:12):
you can write a shape my heart or whatever your
own name, whatever. But this is our way that we
honor the ways that they learned. And so my kids
and I did that, and you know, and that was
our that was part of our June taking celebration. Yeah, yeah,
we're free. We're free in a lot, not every way,
(26:32):
but we're not enslaved. Were not enslaved. So you have
the capacity to come up with whatever it is that
you want to come up and make that a thing
for your family. Hey, listen, I think in this moment's funny, Jil,
as you were talking about, I want to say, right,
that's about I was about to say festivist I'm sorry,
that's that's time field. Oh, that's and that we had
(27:00):
Festivus the day before. Families Festivius for the rest of
its festivals for the rest So just you had that
the day before. So y'all do Festivis. Y'all do families.
And it is interesting because I thought it was a
nice tie into Quanda too, because while you're celebrating your
family for one, then you start celebrating your culture in
your community in the next. Right. Yeah, but I tapped
out by then, I ain't gonna I'm not I'm not
(27:21):
even gonna hold you up like im. I will say.
It's a lot to me. I tried. I didn't grow
up selling it celebrating holidays or birthdays for that matter.
So I'm gonna apologize now. I'm probably not going to
remember your birthday unless you tell me and I put
it in my phone because I I I don't remember.
I just already told you all we got nine thousand
(27:43):
people in our families, so I forget my own damn birthday.
If the radio didn't tell me or the Instagram they're like,
it's just Sky's birthday, I'd be like, oh it is,
I'm two under nine again. I hesitated to bring up
Quansa because I was like, I don't you know, people
feel different ways about Mr Karna Karina, but at the
(28:06):
same time, at the fundamentals of what it asked of you,
of what it really boils down to, is fucking amazing
and shouts out to m two May and all the
rest of the elders who actually helped make that holiday
happen as well, like I mean, you can't deny it, right, Yeah,
actually don't have an issue with the actual principles of one.
And I mean I know that people, you know, so
(28:28):
many things have come out about about um you said
about Karina, But for me, for me, I do think
people who continue to celebrate Kawanza. I know what their
intentions are and I and I think it's actually a
beautiful time for a lot of families and really gives,
you know, African Americans in particular, an opportunity to connect
(28:48):
in a way that speaks to who we are here
but also honors our culture in Africa, where we and
what we brought with us. And I don't think there's
anything wrong with that. Yeah, there's nothing wrong with saying, okay,
yes that I am connected to an absolutely a product
of the continent, but here we had a specific kind
(29:10):
and not just here, but in other places of the
diaspora experience is you know, chattel slavery, which is you know,
it's an experience. It's it's something that you can't forget.
It's something that did happen and did affect our ability
to be connected the ways that in the ways that
we were before that. So I think it's nothing wrong
with you know, as a community saying hey, let's let's
(29:32):
figure out a way to reconnect, but then also um
acknowledge that we are a new thing, you know. And
I so no problem at all with that. I love it.
I wish we could have more holidays like that, Like,
we don't really have a lot of holidays African American
culture wise, do or do we? Am I tripping? I'm
like Kwanza, black History, black History, June Team, June Team.
(29:59):
What happens in Orleans and Louisiana? What is it? Um?
Mardi Gras? Mardi Gras? Okay, it's funny. You know some
things are taken from us and built in this something else.
So I totally forget about Mardi Grad that way because
you are so right. Uh OKAYMRTI Grad juneteen, Kwanza, all right,
I could use it, just a couple of other ones
around in UM, in Chicago and the Midwest, they have
(30:20):
Sweeter's Day. What's that sweetest Day? Is um black people's
version of Valentine's Day? Black Love Day? Or I'll take
it off, I'll take or a single celebration whatever? Yeah,
why not? And then of course in in in New
(30:42):
York and Miami, you got Carnival, you got mm hmmm yeah, yeah,
you know, yeah for the weekend day parade single to Mayo.
For other cultures is that who? Well? This this is
this is where we get lost because we create, we
(31:04):
create Holida. We didn't create holidays, but we celebrate holidays,
which is just fine. Um. And creating your own holiday
for your family and making a tradition for your own
for your family is beautiful and I think so um
as someone who participates in it. But here, we are, here,
we are what's up, So she's about to get it.
(31:33):
It does frustrate the life. Oh it drains my my,
my life. When I see so many of us going
into debt for Christmas, going into debt for Christmas for
people who do not deserve this amount of gifting. It's
(31:54):
shocking to me that we still celebrate the holiday that
we kind of know there's not really truthful of what
it is, and we just definitely know that the big
money making day. But we are so in the line
of dis tradition for generations and generations that we just
couldnot let it go. It's amazing to me, very much
like Jesus Listen already in trouble Less about it. We
(32:21):
said we were going to talk about things, and we
are here to spark conversation. I asked my grandmother about that. Listen.
I had the same conversation with my mother and my grandmother.
My question is always this, what exactly have um white
people that were enslaving folks giving them for their benefit.
(32:43):
They don't want you to read, they want you to
speak your language, they don't want you to pray to
how you pray. So they've given you and the fact
that we continue to hold on into this. Ye yes, yes,
you know. I I don't don't. I don't. I don't
(33:06):
know what you're gonna do with this. I know this.
I know that I love God. I do I do.
There's no there's no ifs ands or butts about that.
I am so appreciative. I am so grateful that I've
learned my relationship with Jehope God. And there are so
many names, and that's that's your business how you want
(33:28):
to deal. I have uh John on my neck and
(33:49):
it is because um. It says for those who don't know,
for God's so love the world that he gave his
only begotten son, so that whomever shall UH believe shall
not perish but have everlasting life. I'm paraphrasing a little bit, um,
but nonetheless most of you know what that is. And
(34:11):
I just think that we've gotten that confused. For God
so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son,
so that whom ever shall believe in him. Now, let'
tell you like this, if I was if somebody asked
me to save the world by giving my only begotten son,
(34:31):
y'all will be some dead mother. She'd be dead, she dead,
we all be dead, and we're going together, my only
begotten son. I always think, man, that level of love,
to to love human being so much to give your
(34:53):
only child for them is massive, and that should be
respected and appreciate, created and honored and cherished if we're
going with the stories to be true. I really feel
that way, and it bothers me when people don't give
our creator the credit deserved for God so loved the
(35:16):
world that he gave his only begotten son so that
whomever shall believe in him, the creator himself, so whomever
shall believe in him shall not perish but have everlasting life. Well,
I mean, I think to unpack. Yeah, it's a lot
(35:37):
of it's plenty of time. There's a lot to unpack
there on One of the things that I will say
this about black folks and there and they're um forced
or perceived forced because it well after slavery, they were
forced to embrace Christianity, but a form of Christianity that
was obviously um twisted and intended to keep them, intended
(36:03):
to keep them enslaved, you know. But obviously there it
was that same Bible and that same teachings, those same
teachings that also spoke to so many enslaved people that
incited them to riot and rebel, you know, because Nat
Turner actually believed that God had spoken to him. Harriet
Tubman said, God spoke to me. These are not people
(36:26):
who read a book or were intellectuals. These were hardcore
spiritual people. But they also came from very similar backgrounds
in their Africanness. Oh yeah, know that they did. They
actually did so, I mean so, and they had certain
spiritual beliefs that were passed out. So the reason why
(36:47):
I say all this is because African Americans have successfully,
in many ways, many many many ways, merged together what
they brought on the ships with Christianity in such a
way that empowers them spirit truly, that has been at
the core of their resistance. So if you start to
peel back the layers of Black resistance over several years,
(37:08):
you're gonna find a lot of that is what what
changes it, and not just Christianity, but also with Islam
because when you look back at some of the other
you know, leaders of different rebellions, they had some backgrounds
and beliefs that were Islamic. And then also to the
big Haitian Revolution was started with a religious ceremony based
(37:30):
in Bodoon, which is based in Yaruba. So it's like,
all of this is who we are. We take who
we are everywhere that we go. We take who we
are where we go. And so when you talk about
we just from our own background, right, sometimes we don't
always know, we don't always know that that's what it is.
But believe you me, that is what it is. And
(37:52):
when you start talking about holidays, that is where we
start to get into Okay, well what does this mean
or what is the meaning behind in this so that
I'm sure that it's not contradictory to what I believe,
because you know, I hear your voice in the back
of my head when it comes to these holidays, right,
it's it's all because of white supremacy. It's not all
(38:14):
of them, not all of most of the American ones
that we celebrate. Well, yeah, I mean because it's about capitalism.
It's like Jill said, this is about people making money
and being able to make money off of us as
as individuals. It's not about making life better, you know
what I'm saying, or making you more spiritually connected. You
know that whenever capitalism embraces a thing, but racial capitalism
(38:38):
embrace Christianity from the gate. There's no way to separate
the two. You've got to have the conversation, not be
afraid to have that conversation. It doesn't it doesn't diminish
any one person's belief because you can find Christianity and
the Ethiopia way before they ever came here. So you
can because the white man is everywhere. That's what I'll
be scared. That's that's why I was scared, always scared.
(38:58):
That's scared because I did ask my grand mother. But
it was always an interesting point for me because I
was like, as black as my grandmother, what it was.
I always wondered, like the story of Christianity and what
I knew of and and how it came to Black Americans.
I was like, Oh, that's interesting that we get it
when we have a habit of taking things and making
in our own and switching it from a negative to
(39:18):
a positive. But man, this is a doozy. This is
a real juzy. I always start. I mean, it would
be a really good idea to say that Ethiopia was
never called zed. That's true, but the man came down
it everywhere, came everywhere, everywhere. Well, you know, the end
(39:49):
of the day is that I don't know a lot
of folks who when they hear the world Holiday, they're
thinking Holy Day. M okay. So tradition and holy day
can be two different things, and particularly people who are
very religious are more likely to focus on a holy
(40:10):
day than a tradition. Traditions for them can come and go,
because a tradition can be started by someone who you know, whatever,
but something that's tied into your actual belief system. You
know people, but then you're like, it's not his birthday,
it's not a day. It's not a birthday. He's not
a day. That's different. And then you tell us a
(40:30):
story about how we all came to this day, and
it's like, okay, lot of things. We believe a lot
of things just because they tell us to believe it.
And it's a tradition of believing. It's not just telling
but forcing. People got their teeth pulled out, um with
with pliers and such people got their feet cut off,
(40:52):
you know, forcing them to be Christians another reason which
makes it hard, always made it hard if a rebellious
me to go. So we're just gonna roll with this
is the truth, even though we were. What I would
need though, for me, Um, what I would need is
for Christianity to actually do it's it's job. I needed
(41:16):
to do its work. I need um churches to be
smaller and black people to be more um affluent. I
see a lot of a lot of big churches, and
I cannot front with you like it it bothers me.
I know, people, Um, you know there's a I've visit
a lot of different places, you know when it comes
(41:37):
to religion. So you know, I'll check out a Buddhist
temple for a while, and I'll go to a Catholic
church for a while, and you know, just pay attention
and look around and listen and see what I'm getting. Um.
And sometimes I say one place longer than others. Um,
there's a church that I was going to here in Tennessee.
(41:58):
And I have a friend who was going through some
hard times, particularly with this COVID and she's worked for
the church, and she's benefited and been there to help
in so many areas, and she needed some help. So UM,
myself and some others we joined together to to help her.
And then after that we were like, okay, so you
(42:20):
know we're in a good a better space, a good space.
Let's go to the church. And they told her they
would pray for her. And I was like, wait, ha,
I'm having a hard time with that when the pastor has,
you know, a dumb, ridiculous, big gass house, like I'm
(42:41):
having a hard time. My mom used to call her
counseliment about it, like that church you did, Yeah, I
just I don't understand why there isn't more UM like
like similar to the Black Panthers where you're supplying supplying
food and shelter for people, like I don't understand. And
and somebody like, oh ha, my church. I'm just talking
(43:03):
about as a whole because this is such a part
of UM, a part of Black people and what we
pour ourselves into and were pouring ourselves into, not just
our faith absolutely without question, but we're also pouring ourselves
into these um these edifices, were pouring ourselves into these
(43:24):
these places that don't seem to benefit the people as
they should. There should be more universities, you um, um,
HBCU should not be struggling with the amount of money
that comes through you know, um churches. The churches are
getting bigger, but and the the you know, the pool
is getting bigger. They've got lights like you know, uh,
(43:47):
like a show like Vega shows that basket comes around.
I don't know threefold times, you know, I just need it,
whatever it is to actually be a benefit or yeah,
needs to be a benefit to the people and love
to the churches that are because we know there's not everybody.
I want the shout out to Alfred Street Baptists over
there in Virginia that's trying to keep their church as
(44:09):
small as possible with their thirty thousand members and still
given to their hbc U s and all thank you.
They just added they just added services throughout the day.
I had a church once that with the pastor was
actually a carpenter. That's what he worked. And I love
(44:31):
that because he could understand it wasn't just a you know,
an offering, you know that he was living off offerings,
that he was actually working. I just don't think you
should get without girls, please, ye think. I think what
happens is that, Um, obviously you have had many conversations
(44:55):
over the over the you know, several hundred years that
we've been on in this country in the West, where
we've we've tackled this idea that black wealth and access
to money helps us as a community and that's going
to push us forward. And one of the main places
where that wealth can be distributed, like you know, is
(45:17):
typically in church, and so it was especially for black folks,
you know, and or in their religious institutions period, because
we've seen this kind of thing happen, you know, across faiths,
you know what I mean. And I think it's a
good thing to a degree to have a church be
a base for you know, social um supports and and
(45:38):
and community supports. But the thing is that the community
itself isn't just Christian people. So until we have a
situation where as a community we can have like diverse
spaces for everybody to come together, you know, and under
the guise of strengthening the community and giving resources, um, well,
(46:00):
just be empowering these entities to just get into the
race of who can raise the most money, who can
bring in the most membership who can do X, Y
and Z until we start really working into coalitions and
stuff like that. And not that we don't have them,
because every idea that we could come up with during
this this podcast, it's been tried. So the thing is
(46:21):
that I think re re shifting our focus back into
coalitions is important. I mean, I hate to pull out
my little history lesson on this one, but we love
this party. But you know Denmark VC, who is really
(46:51):
famous revolutionary and man who planned a revolt, uh slave
revolt that actually was not successful, but it was used
as a way to I mean, it sparked a lot
of change in America moving toward emancipation. So the idea
here is that when he planned this revolt, he was
(47:13):
a very devout Christian, but one of his main conspirators
was a man named Golla Jack and he he um
practiced African spiritual traditions. And hey, you had a man
who was a devout Christian who planned a slavery vote
with a man who was strictly in the practice of
(47:34):
African spirituality. And I think that this is really really
profound because what it says is that black people, no
matter what we believe no matter how we celebrate, no
matter what we how we worship, that we have a
combined and a unified struggle, and that struggle is against
the oppressor. And so I think that's really important when
(47:56):
we think about these kinds of things, that if churches,
we can't put all the weight on just the one
church or just the churches. The churches have to be
not be afraid to work with the moss. The moss
has to not be afraid to work with the church.
The church had the moss, can't be afraid to work
with the with the African spiritualists, you can all of
this is all this has to come together so that
(48:18):
we can serve one another, so that we can celebrate
family and and and and building up community, you know
what I mean. And that's just my personal little two
sense belief. Right, if we don't toss, if we don't
toss these things, we'll always have some sort of critique.
We will have a critique, and that that will that
will maintain that there will be a hierarchy and a
(48:40):
and a you know, monopoly within each of these spaces.
Somebody will come up on it. It just is what
it is. I am looking to see us bloom and
prosper and grow from our efforts. And anything that you're
pouring into that does not blossom is fut It's dead
(49:01):
earth word word. I'd like you to check out how
to make a Negro Christian? Oh shit, yes, ma'am. Don't
get me wrong. You're and I'm pretty sure that you
know some of you are offended, and you're probably going
to get me wrong. Well, that happens. I can't do
(49:23):
anything about somebody getting me wrong. But I do know
this that God has been in every single instant of
my life, every single bit of it. He knows me
better then I know myself, and has been a beautiful,
beautiful guide and even my foolishness, and I am grateful
(49:48):
for all of it. How do you eat an elephant?
One by kind? It's producer back with another resource today,
Jill brought up the book How to Make a Negro
Christian by Kamal mckazy to Hootie. In eighteen forty two,
(50:09):
Thomas Purse published the book The Religious Instruction of the
Negroes in the United States, written by Charles Kolcock Jones.
Jones owned plantations in Liberty County, Georgia and wasn't enslavor
and a Presbyterian minister. He encouraged other ministers and enflavors
to provide religious instruction to black people. In this book,
(50:30):
Jones advocated for evangelizing enslaved people, which he thought would
make them more obedient, intellectual, morally upstanding and pliable, leaving
them without Christianity and in ignorance he believed would make
them susceptible to rebellion. Mcazy to Hootie's book, How to
Make a Negro Christian contains a reprint of Jones's works,
(50:51):
along with commentary and context around how and why Black
Americans have come to embrace Christianity on such a large scale.
The history of Black folks and Christianity is deep and intricate,
but you can start with How to Make a Negro Christian.
I'll drop a link in the episode description and that
(51:13):
my children, my sisters, my brothers, my friends. That is that.
Thank you for listening to Jay dot Il, always hoping
to spark conversation peace. Thank you for listening to Jill
Scott Presents Jay dot Il the podcast. This podcast is
(51:50):
hosted by Jill Scotty St. Claire and Age Graden. Danceler.
It's executive producers are Jill Scott, Sean g and Brian Calhoun.
Is produced by Laya sat Claire and me Eve jeph Coke.
The editing and sound design for this episode we're done
by Taylor Choma. Hey y'all, y'all, can we pause for
(52:11):
one second? One second? Hold a couple of years? Hey, hey, y'all,
you're walking too hard on the floor. Sorry, I thought
something else is about to go down. I enjoy it
every time now and listen, you know, Agia Um, she
(52:34):
gott to yell at the people that live in there,
the people she made and the one she didn't, yelling
at them every now and then They told him to
shut up. They're walking too hard. I don't know what
it's like submit in the heel of their foot when
you figured out. Let me know what I can tell
my upstairs neighbor. God damn. J dot Ill is a
(52:55):
production of I Heart Radio. For more podcasts from I
Heart Radi, you visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast,
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Welcome to Jay dot Do, a production of I Heart Radio.
What's up everybody? Hi? How are you? I hope that
(00:25):
you're so good. Thank you so much for checking in
with us. Um this is Jay dot Elder Podcast and
I'm here with my sister friends, my strong powerful woman
Liah Sinclair strong and Powerful, Damn Straight and Aga Graydon
Danceler Woody, who I like when I say dance Dance.
(00:49):
That's a nice name. I wish I had more syllables.
I didn't get enough syllables. It's like, and I'm gonna
tell you that my mother put an exclamation point on
my birth certificate. Do you mention that to you? You
told me yes, So my name is really Jill Scott's amazing.
(01:14):
It really is, though, Like it really is. I I
enjoyed that choice. Your son King, that's a nice name.
It is a nice name. Yeah. My nephew's name is King.
It's short for Kingston, but we call him King. I
saw you had a pretty baby on the Instagram. A
(01:35):
that's your knee. She's so beautiful. First of all, my
sister in law, my sister in love. Yeah, I really
do believe that she was brought here to the earth
to make pretty babies because she literally has five little
girls and they are all adorable. Like she's a little
(01:57):
pretty black girl baby make machine. And she her latest
one is, ah, It's the icing on the cake. Her
latest one, her latest one. Listen, I'm like babies, they
take the socks off when they're handling napses. They take
(02:23):
the socks off. Yes, girl, yeah, you have a really
really big family, huh, I do for teen. My husband
is the oldest of six children, and this is his
sister who also now has six children, as we have
six children. But yes, so they are a lot of cooking.
(02:45):
Oh yeah, girl, you know I've cooked every day for
bazilion years, but now I don't do it anymore. I'm
gonna tell you what broke me this here pandemic. I
cooked every day for about three and finally I just
was like, I can't do it anymore. So I implemented
finn for yourself night. Oh and also I also look
(03:09):
hashtag like them kids. Okay, get um fit for yourself
now I'm just shaking my head, yes, sir. And then
was also just my older children had to take a
certain night to cook. So yeah, a lot, a lot
of cooking can you come from a big family like you. No,
(03:29):
it's you know, it's just me up in here. But
my mother and my father are both the youngest of
their bruise Like my mom's the youngest of five, my
dad's youngest of nine. And uh, yeah, this is it
for me. So I adopt people. I got a lot
of god brothers and sisters and whatnot. So the holiday
times is kind of uh, it's more relaxed for you
because how many people are showing up friends and family
(03:53):
or it depends. Last year we did the whole. A
lot of New York folks from my dad's side came
down and we had dinner at my mom's house. So
that was really nice. But to be honest, shoot, as
far as the Christmas holidays and the only child, we
cut that out about twenty five years ago after the
presents and we just decided to travel. We do our
own things on the holiday. That's delicious. My mama jealous. Yeah,
(04:18):
that's nice, So let's go somewhere instead. So now that
we started that little tradition, I'm trying to hopefully maybe
this year and maybe we'll do I don't know, I
don't want. I don't win when do you start preparing
for the travel? Well, Jill, as a daughter of a
flight attendant, that right, I'm like, that can vary from mommy,
we're gonna we're going this year, We're were going. Okay,
(04:41):
so come three a week before, we're gonna start packing,
and then and then a couple of days for that
we're gonna pick the flight to see what the low
look like. Oh this wight attended life is real. Yeah, yeah,
so you angel, you you've gotta, you know, cook for
a lot of people. Let me tell you something. Thanksgiving
(05:02):
was all I mean for years and two turkeys, isn't it? Well? No, not,
well it is if we go to family's house, if
we go over, we went up. We've gone over to
my mother in law's house many times. And then because
also too, I have a mother, we have bounced from
my husband's mother's house to my mom's house, until finally
I had so many kids, I was like, listen, y'all,
(05:24):
I don't feel like dressing all these kids, cart and
all these kids to go over to somebody else's houses
and eat, and then like, what is the leftover situation
gonna be? Like by the time I pack up food
from your house. I'd then packed up leftovers that looked
like a whole like I cooked. So I'm like, no,
I'm gonna cook at home. I sit there and feed
my children. I said, if y'all want to see these kids,
(05:46):
I bring them over for a dessert or something like that.
My mother with my mother and my family and my
in laws are like a family. They're close to. So
my my siblings and my mom are all close to
my husband's sibling and mother. So we have a bit
of a really good mixture. So we tend to spend
time together. And we also have two different religions in
(06:07):
our family. That's about because my mother, we don't celebrate
Christmas because we're Muslim. My mother and please don't get
mad at me for cussing and carrying on in this show,
like look, y'all can just save the emails now. I
(06:29):
cuss um so uh. And my mother's side is Christian,
and so typically Thanksgiving over the years would be the
time that we would end up altogether, but on on
the on the Islamic side, on the Muslim side, we
would do eat dinners and that would be that's the time.
(06:49):
Add there's two eads a year and a calendar Islamic year,
and so we would get together and cook and eat
for eat and then I just thought about that, Asia,
You've got a lot of how of the days, like
you got not hot with traditions. You got a lot
of traditions. And that's a lot of traditions. But it's
not that you know, it's actually a thing really good
for the kids because the kids get to just understand
(07:12):
about diversity within family and that, you know, blood ties
are stronger than cultural ties, and that you can still
really believe and do what you do and still be
able to be respectful of your family and things like that.
So I've I've loved over the years and my kids
have got an opportunity to do that. And the little
extra work is just that, hey, you know, you gotta
(07:33):
have an extra conversation. You gotta keep family on point,
make sure everybody is aware, you know, that kind of thing.
And even with Christmas, though my children don't celebrate Christmas,
they have family members who do so in the past
they may have, like you know, sent the kids a
couple of dollars or this that a dollar. You're about
(07:54):
to say, you the whole you hold your holder. So
that's I mean, not not now, but you were raised
that right for saw first. Sorry what I do. I'm sorry,
I'm sorry, I'm I'm they are called Jehovah's witness I'm sorry,
(08:16):
I shortened everything. I'm sorry to be called Jehovah. It
be like me calling aja Allah. Okay, and y'all not
a five percent of witness. I got it. Jehovah's witness. Yeh, Jehovah.
That's a black thing to out. Yes it is, it
(08:37):
is what it is. But they're Jehovah's witnesses. And um, yeah,
I grew up as a Jehovah's witness. Not because I
was baptized that's a Tehovah's witness, but because that's the
house I lived in. And as you know, you know,
when you grow up in the house, that's what you do.
You do whatever your parents are doing. So I grew
with my my mom and my grandma, and we definitely missed.
(08:58):
I feel like I missed out on a lot of
stuff like holidays and things until I got old enough
to catch the transportation by myself. Once. Once I got
old enough to hop on that fifty four and catch
the subway and then gone, and I forgot what other
bus I could I don't remember now to to get
to Mount Airy where would go to my aunt's house
(09:20):
and she would have Christmas there, so that man, I
got to eat the good Christmas food. I got to
play oh No all night long and laugh out loud,
and my aunt would always get me something. God blessed her.
It was never anything that I wanted, but the fact
that she thought of me meant a lot to me.
And until I got older and was like, hey, listen,
(09:43):
I'm gonna just want you to keep that, like, keep
that money in your pocket. You don't have to buy
me anything, you know. Um, But the holidays were really,
really fun, I thought, from not celebrating them to celebrating
I was like, this is cool. And then I got old, older,
and I was like, wait a minute, wait one minute,
(10:06):
talking about so Christmas is I don't know the exact
numbers right now, but when I was reading about it,
it was like Christmas was seventy three of America's economy
three and that was a long time ago. That was
(10:28):
a long time I don't I don't know, you know
what it was then, but that was enough to shake
my world up and asked myself, like, what am I
exactly getting into and why am I doing this? Um,
there's the stories, clearly, you know, we've all heard the
stories about Jesus and Christmas. Um, how number one, Jesus
(10:50):
wasn't born in December, So who made up December twenty
five as his birthdate? And why do we give gifts
and all of that jazz and where? Well, it wasn't
attempt Okay, So the historical implication of is that, Um,
(11:10):
it wasn't attempt. I know she would, I was setting
it up. We know this answer already, So I don't
appreciate y'all set me up as almighty. It wasn't attempt
for the king at the time. I want to say,
(11:33):
it's probably like Constantine or somebody who was trying to
spread Christianity but knew that the cultural and uh, the
cultural beliefs of the people where he was we're not
right in line with Christianity. At the time, they were
celebrating winter Solstice and uh something else I want to say,
(11:53):
called christ Mass or something like that. And so what
he decided to do was allow them to keep elements
of their cultural celebrations and mesh it together with Christian
tradition so that he could ease the people into celebrating
or practicing Christianity. So, um, that's how you get Christmas
(12:16):
in December. That's my understanding of it. St Nick comes
into the conversation. That's not how st Nick comes into
the conversation, but that is how stuff like uh you'le
tie greetings and things like that come into play. And um,
the like I said, the time period and things of
that nature. So yeah, and trees like a Christmas tree,
(12:39):
that's when the that's how the Christmas tree comes into play.
And garland and mistletoe and things like that. So yeah.
So that's where you have some Christians who over time
have actually stopped doing those types of traditions because they
understand it it's not necessarily a quote unquote Christian tradition
(13:00):
America at this point in American. But but now it's
very American because you do find people, like she says,
like a part of big part of the economy. So
people come here from other places and part of their
um embracing American culture is to celebrate Christmas. The music
is nice and the lights. I have always loved the lights.
My children, my little Muslim children, I've always loved the lights.
(13:23):
I've always loved the lights, and I've I've always enjoyed
the music and the getting together and the smells of
it all. I always thought that was so nice. Um.
But when I had my son, I think we had
Christmas maybe twice, and I just felt wrong. I just
I just didn't sit right for me, because you know,
(13:44):
we have all of these things, all of these holidays
that make money. Really, you know, think about it. I
wrote I wrote cars for Hallmark, Father's Day, Mother's Day,
Valentine's Day. You know, there's always the cards by the way,
because I know, I'm just saying every Mother's Day, Father's Day.
I was looking at something. So Christmas didn't feel right
(14:17):
one because I didn't grow up celebrating it. I got
a chance to participate in it with my Aunt Shirley.
Shout out to Aunt Shirley, who was so beautiful and
kind and loving to me. Miss you so much, um um.
So I got a chance to experience that. But when
I had my own child, I was like, do I
really am I really setting him up? You know? Do
(14:40):
I want to do? I want to tell him lie? Right?
I always wondered what how I handled this a parent,
I'm sorry, go ahead, you yeah, like you know, it's
it's not real, Like do you want to tell a lie?
And and not for nothing? The thing that you know,
I went around when my mom when she find decided
not to do it. I started to think too about
how I would have these amazing Christmas is come to
New Year. My mom was trying to figure out how
(15:02):
to rob rob Peter to pay Paul, and I was like,
that's not that's not fair. No. So when I was little,
what my mom used to do is she would wait
until Christmas was over and then we would go shopping
because it was all of the Christmas holiday stuff. And
I had gone back to school without doing the then
(15:23):
going shopping part. And I came back to school, I
had on the same clothes I had on the week,
you know, a couple of weeks before that, and all
the kids had new clothes. This was it messed with
me like, oh, you know, I felt jealous and I
felt like I was getting left out of something that
I wanted to So I didn't want to do that
(15:43):
to Jet. But I also did not want to lie
to the kid about these holidays. So I invented famists,
fam us fam yeah, faminess. You know. I was like, okay, Christmas.
(16:03):
But I was like, Faminist, family is family is what
are the things that I love about holidays or traditional
holidays in America? Um? Well, you know, you get together
with your family, you cook with your family, y'all, listen
to music, your dance, you play games. You know, somebody's
gonna you know, play spades or something like. We're going
(16:25):
to enjoy each other. And I was like, that's what
this That's what people really are, you know, inclined, that's
what they really love to do. It's it's it's the
family portion. So I was like, Okay, I'm going to
create a holiday that is about family. Family is the
only difference between Christmas and Faminists is it? Is? Well,
(16:48):
it's there's two differences. Instead of putting up uh garland
and we put up the colors of our of our culture.
So there's a lot of African flags around the house,
and we it up pictures of people we respect and
admire all around the house during the during Faminists, um, um,
we we have a tree, but our tree is black.
(17:14):
What the hell do you get that from? From the
home goods? Wow. Yeah, we have a black tree and um,
we put we put pretty much anything we want on
the thing thing. Sometimes it's pictures of us, sometimes it's
a cante cloth, or sometimes it's African flags depend you know,
(17:35):
all over the continent. Um, so there's pictures of people
we admire and respect, and then there's this black ash
tree and that we do do presents, but you have
to earn them. And how you earn a gift on
Faminists is you have to write a one page essay.
It can be longer, but it's a one page essay
(17:58):
about whatever you want to talk about, whatever you want
to talk about, and then we all sit after dinner.
We all sit and listen to one another speak out
loud and think out loud. So, you know, one year,
Jets was about raccoons because we had raccoons and our
you know, trash sometimes and what we found out from
(18:20):
his essay was that raccoons have sensories in their hands.
You know, they have five digits like we do, so,
but they have sensories. So when they touch a trash can,
they're like that is jelly? What else is that? Some onions?
And yeah, right, and then he's he's Okay, So the
(18:46):
essays have to be handwritten or I mean, they don't
have to be handwritten, but it's nice. I prefer them
to be handwritten. Once you read your essay, then you
get your gift or gifts depending because everybody, anybody can
if anybody a gift. But if you don't, um, if
you don't read your essay, you ain't get nothing. And
that's just the way it works. You don't get without giving,
(19:08):
and that's just the way it is. So we go
from listening to our elders to listening to the children
and everybody in between. So we get to our family
gets to hear us thinking about whatever we want to
talk about. It could be anything, and that is the
gist of families. It doesn't have any religious implications. So
(19:31):
my mother comes, she's a Jehovah's witness and she's like,
you know, she doesn't celebrate holidays. Um, but this doesn't
have any religious implications. So it's more of a family gathering.
It's family is families. So I think it works for
any culture, whether you're uh Indian, whether you're Italian. You know,
(19:53):
to have pictures of Italian people that you're respecting, to
admire all around the house, to have your tree red,
white and green. Um, to to sit and listen to
your family, you know think. So that's pretty much what
Familist is and that's what we've been celebrating for the
last five years. So last thing is because it's the
(20:16):
essays are on paper, I collect them and um keep
them in a little famous box. What's not little anymore,
but keep him in a famis box and it becomes
a family treasure. So I can look back and say, Okay,
in you know, uh two thousand and and you know twelve,
(20:37):
you wrote an art. You wrote an essay about why
you don't want to do homework or why you think
homework is unfair, you know what I mean? And you
get to also see your own hand right here, particularly
you know, particularly for the kids. Love that. How long
does it take to develop a holiday Jill Um, I
guess overnight if that's what you wanna do. I mean,
(21:00):
I wanted to take you to figure all those elements out. Well,
it didn't take long because I've been thinking about it
for years, like what is it that that bothers me?
What is it that that doesn't sit well with me?
That one this is such a big economic holiday that
bothers me. Um too, it doesn't have any basis in history.
(21:23):
And why not praise the Lord all year round, Praise
Lord's Praise Lord all year round. Whomever you decided you
call God based on information that you know or based
on your family and how they've taught you. Praise the
Lord all year round. Be grateful for for your creator
and creation all year round. But at this time, celebrate family,
(21:45):
Celebrate family, and ask of them to do something to
get something. Well, I mean, I'm gonna tell you, I
know that the being with family part, particularly for black folks,
(22:08):
is the pool for all of these holidays, you know,
because obviously even the question around whether or not black
people should even be celebrating Thanksgiving has come up in
my family in the past five years, as we talked
about that should we even be celebrating this, especially since
I have friends who are who are Indigenous, and they
just feel so deeply disrespected by that holiday. And so
(22:30):
for us, you know, as we all should feel deeply
disrespected by it. Um. But I think also to you know,
the idea of being with family for us, that's what
resonates it says. Okay, well, I just wanna. I'm not
even I'm not keyed into all of it. I just
want to be able to play bid with and eat
some good food and you know, and be around, you know,
my extended family. So I can really appreciate being intentional
(22:54):
about that, because you know, these are things that keep
us together, These are the things that keep us going,
and you know, all over the diaspora, but particularly here
in America, where it's like what is for us? But
I love the fact that in some states and here
in Pennsylvania, Juneteenth is now considered a holiday, an official
holiday here in the state of Pennsylvania. And for Tina
(23:15):
and I rode in the Juneteenth Parade last year, and um,
we were the Grand Marshall's doling Yes, Clive yars and it.
And it got me to thinking, I known about Juneteenth
a long time, but I had never really been really
intentional about celebrating it. Um and uh and again, um,
(23:36):
Black History Month in my household is a very big deal.
And I am the only person I know who decorates
for Black History Month. So I actually decorate for Black
History Month. So when you were saying to think about
putting up the pictures and stuff, I was like oh girl,
this is me or black history mouth like this is
how I am. And I love the fact that, um,
(23:59):
you kind of kind of came with your own family traditions.
I think that's super important that even though there's some
things cross culturally that we that we should continue to honor,
one of the real things that I feel like it's
important to honor is those things that become important to
your individual family and that, um, those are the things
you get to pass on from generation to generation, you know,
(24:20):
which is why stuff like family reunions are such a
big deal in our community and um, you know things
like that. Here's one thing I know I made up
that my kids and I did UM on Juneteenth, I
(24:43):
want to say, two years ago, was I decided that
I bought a very large piece of UM handmade and
hand printed UM mud cloth that has some cante woven
into it as well. UM. And this was what I
placed over top of my mother's casket. M Um. And
this is you know how she was there when when
(25:06):
during her service we I took that and out laid
it out on the table. It was and and what
I was telling the kids was that, you know, during slavery,
obviously we weren't allowed to learn how to read, but
we used to do these things called pit schools where
people would escape in the middle of the night and
dig a ditch in the into the ground and get
(25:27):
inside the ditch and cover it with leaves, and that
they would learn how to read at night in these
pits schools and these ditches. And one of the ways
they learned was by writing into stuff like flour and
salt m And so what I did was I told
the kids, I said, okay, here, we're gonna cover our table.
This is a um something to honor our particular ancestors.
(25:50):
And you know, my mother is an ancestor now. And
I sat out a little tray and I said, okay, guys,
I put the flower out. I said, this is our
way of our learn how our ancestors learned before they
were free to learn how to read and to learn
how to have their own self determination. And so I
was like, you can write anything in a flower that
you want. You can write the name of an ancestor,
(26:12):
you can write a shape my heart or whatever your
own name, whatever. But this is our way that we
honor the ways that they learned. And so my kids
and I did that, and you know, and that was
our that was part of our June taking celebration. Yeah, yeah,
we're free. We're free in a lot, not every way,
(26:32):
but we're not enslaved. Were not enslaved. So you have
the capacity to come up with whatever it is that
you want to come up and make that a thing
for your family. Hey, listen, I think in this moment's funny, Jil,
as you were talking about, I want to say, right,
that's about I was about to say festivist I'm sorry,
that's that's time field. Oh, that's and that we had
(27:00):
Festivus the day before. Families Festivius for the rest of
its festivals for the rest So just you had that
the day before. So y'all do Festivis. Y'all do families.
And it is interesting because I thought it was a
nice tie into Quanda too, because while you're celebrating your
family for one, then you start celebrating your culture in
your community in the next. Right. Yeah, but I tapped
out by then, I ain't gonna I'm not I'm not
(27:21):
even gonna hold you up like im. I will say.
It's a lot to me. I tried. I didn't grow
up selling it celebrating holidays or birthdays for that matter.
So I'm gonna apologize now. I'm probably not going to
remember your birthday unless you tell me and I put
it in my phone because I I I don't remember.
I just already told you all we got nine thousand
(27:43):
people in our families, so I forget my own damn birthday.
If the radio didn't tell me or the Instagram they're like,
it's just Sky's birthday, I'd be like, oh it is,
I'm two under nine again. I hesitated to bring up
Quansa because I was like, I don't you know, people
feel different ways about Mr Karna Karina, but at the
(28:06):
same time, at the fundamentals of what it asked of you,
of what it really boils down to, is fucking amazing
and shouts out to m two May and all the
rest of the elders who actually helped make that holiday
happen as well, like I mean, you can't deny it, right, Yeah,
actually don't have an issue with the actual principles of one.
And I mean I know that people, you know, so
(28:28):
many things have come out about about um you said
about Karina, But for me, for me, I do think
people who continue to celebrate Kawanza. I know what their
intentions are and I and I think it's actually a
beautiful time for a lot of families and really gives,
you know, African Americans in particular, an opportunity to connect
(28:48):
in a way that speaks to who we are here
but also honors our culture in Africa, where we and
what we brought with us. And I don't think there's
anything wrong with that. Yeah, there's nothing wrong with saying, okay,
yes that I am connected to an absolutely a product
of the continent, but here we had a specific kind
(29:10):
and not just here, but in other places of the
diaspora experience is you know, chattel slavery, which is you know,
it's an experience. It's it's something that you can't forget.
It's something that did happen and did affect our ability
to be connected the ways that in the ways that
we were before that. So I think it's nothing wrong
with you know, as a community saying hey, let's let's
(29:32):
figure out a way to reconnect, but then also um
acknowledge that we are a new thing, you know. And
I so no problem at all with that. I love it.
I wish we could have more holidays like that, Like,
we don't really have a lot of holidays African American
culture wise, do or do we? Am I tripping? I'm
like Kwanza, black History, black History, June Team, June Team.
(29:59):
What happens in Orleans and Louisiana? What is it? Um?
Mardi Gras? Mardi Gras? Okay, it's funny. You know some
things are taken from us and built in this something else.
So I totally forget about Mardi Grad that way because
you are so right. Uh OKAYMRTI Grad juneteen, Kwanza, all right,
I could use it, just a couple of other ones
around in UM, in Chicago and the Midwest, they have
(30:20):
Sweeter's Day. What's that sweetest Day? Is um black people's
version of Valentine's Day? Black Love Day? Or I'll take
it off, I'll take or a single celebration whatever? Yeah,
why not? And then of course in in in New
(30:42):
York and Miami, you got Carnival, you got mm hmmm yeah, yeah,
you know, yeah for the weekend day parade single to Mayo.
For other cultures is that who? Well? This this is
this is where we get lost because we create, we
(31:04):
create Holida. We didn't create holidays, but we celebrate holidays,
which is just fine. Um. And creating your own holiday
for your family and making a tradition for your own
for your family is beautiful and I think so um
as someone who participates in it. But here, we are, here,
we are what's up, So she's about to get it.
(31:33):
It does frustrate the life. Oh it drains my my,
my life. When I see so many of us going
into debt for Christmas, going into debt for Christmas for
people who do not deserve this amount of gifting. It's
(31:54):
shocking to me that we still celebrate the holiday that
we kind of know there's not really truthful of what
it is, and we just definitely know that the big
money making day. But we are so in the line
of dis tradition for generations and generations that we just
couldnot let it go. It's amazing to me, very much
like Jesus Listen already in trouble Less about it. We
(32:21):
said we were going to talk about things, and we
are here to spark conversation. I asked my grandmother about that. Listen.
I had the same conversation with my mother and my grandmother.
My question is always this, what exactly have um white
people that were enslaving folks giving them for their benefit.
(32:43):
They don't want you to read, they want you to
speak your language, they don't want you to pray to
how you pray. So they've given you and the fact
that we continue to hold on into this. Ye yes, yes,
you know. I I don't don't. I don't. I don't
(33:06):
know what you're gonna do with this. I know this.
I know that I love God. I do I do.
There's no there's no ifs ands or butts about that.
I am so appreciative. I am so grateful that I've
learned my relationship with Jehope God. And there are so
many names, and that's that's your business how you want
(33:28):
to deal. I have uh John on my neck and
(33:49):
it is because um. It says for those who don't know,
for God's so love the world that he gave his
only begotten son, so that whomever shall UH believe shall
not perish but have everlasting life. I'm paraphrasing a little bit, um,
but nonetheless most of you know what that is. And
(34:11):
I just think that we've gotten that confused. For God
so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son,
so that whom ever shall believe in him. Now, let'
tell you like this, if I was if somebody asked
me to save the world by giving my only begotten son,
(34:31):
y'all will be some dead mother. She'd be dead, she dead,
we all be dead, and we're going together, my only
begotten son. I always think, man, that level of love,
to to love human being so much to give your
(34:53):
only child for them is massive, and that should be
respected and appreciate, created and honored and cherished if we're
going with the stories to be true. I really feel
that way, and it bothers me when people don't give
our creator the credit deserved for God so loved the
(35:16):
world that he gave his only begotten son so that
whomever shall believe in him, the creator himself, so whomever
shall believe in him shall not perish but have everlasting life. Well,
I mean, I think to unpack. Yeah, it's a lot
(35:37):
of it's plenty of time. There's a lot to unpack
there on One of the things that I will say
this about black folks and there and they're um forced
or perceived forced because it well after slavery, they were
forced to embrace Christianity, but a form of Christianity that
was obviously um twisted and intended to keep them, intended
(36:03):
to keep them enslaved, you know. But obviously there it
was that same Bible and that same teachings, those same
teachings that also spoke to so many enslaved people that
incited them to riot and rebel, you know, because Nat
Turner actually believed that God had spoken to him. Harriet
Tubman said, God spoke to me. These are not people
(36:26):
who read a book or were intellectuals. These were hardcore
spiritual people. But they also came from very similar backgrounds
in their Africanness. Oh yeah, know that they did. They
actually did so, I mean so, and they had certain
spiritual beliefs that were passed out. So the reason why
(36:47):
I say all this is because African Americans have successfully,
in many ways, many many many ways, merged together what
they brought on the ships with Christianity in such a
way that empowers them spirit truly, that has been at
the core of their resistance. So if you start to
peel back the layers of Black resistance over several years,
(37:08):
you're gonna find a lot of that is what what
changes it, and not just Christianity, but also with Islam
because when you look back at some of the other
you know, leaders of different rebellions, they had some backgrounds
and beliefs that were Islamic. And then also to the
big Haitian Revolution was started with a religious ceremony based
(37:30):
in Bodoon, which is based in Yaruba. So it's like,
all of this is who we are. We take who
we are everywhere that we go. We take who we
are where we go. And so when you talk about
we just from our own background, right, sometimes we don't
always know, we don't always know that that's what it is.
But believe you me, that is what it is. And
(37:52):
when you start talking about holidays, that is where we
start to get into Okay, well what does this mean
or what is the meaning behind in this so that
I'm sure that it's not contradictory to what I believe,
because you know, I hear your voice in the back
of my head when it comes to these holidays, right,
it's it's all because of white supremacy. It's not all
(38:14):
of them, not all of most of the American ones
that we celebrate. Well, yeah, I mean because it's about capitalism.
It's like Jill said, this is about people making money
and being able to make money off of us as
as individuals. It's not about making life better, you know
what I'm saying, or making you more spiritually connected. You
know that whenever capitalism embraces a thing, but racial capitalism
(38:38):
embrace Christianity from the gate. There's no way to separate
the two. You've got to have the conversation, not be
afraid to have that conversation. It doesn't it doesn't diminish
any one person's belief because you can find Christianity and
the Ethiopia way before they ever came here. So you
can because the white man is everywhere. That's what I'll
be scared. That's that's why I was scared, always scared.
(38:58):
That's scared because I did ask my grand mother. But
it was always an interesting point for me because I
was like, as black as my grandmother, what it was.
I always wondered, like the story of Christianity and what
I knew of and and how it came to Black Americans.
I was like, Oh, that's interesting that we get it
when we have a habit of taking things and making
in our own and switching it from a negative to
(39:18):
a positive. But man, this is a doozy. This is
a real juzy. I always start. I mean, it would
be a really good idea to say that Ethiopia was
never called zed. That's true, but the man came down
it everywhere, came everywhere, everywhere. Well, you know, the end
(39:49):
of the day is that I don't know a lot
of folks who when they hear the world Holiday, they're
thinking Holy Day. M okay. So tradition and holy day
can be two different things, and particularly people who are
very religious are more likely to focus on a holy
(40:10):
day than a tradition. Traditions for them can come and go,
because a tradition can be started by someone who you know, whatever,
but something that's tied into your actual belief system. You
know people, but then you're like, it's not his birthday,
it's not a day. It's not a birthday. He's not
a day. That's different. And then you tell us a
(40:30):
story about how we all came to this day, and
it's like, okay, lot of things. We believe a lot
of things just because they tell us to believe it.
And it's a tradition of believing. It's not just telling
but forcing. People got their teeth pulled out, um with
with pliers and such people got their feet cut off,
(40:52):
you know, forcing them to be Christians another reason which
makes it hard, always made it hard if a rebellious
me to go. So we're just gonna roll with this
is the truth, even though we were. What I would
need though, for me, Um, what I would need is
for Christianity to actually do it's it's job. I needed
(41:16):
to do its work. I need um churches to be
smaller and black people to be more um affluent. I
see a lot of a lot of big churches, and
I cannot front with you like it it bothers me.
I know, people, Um, you know there's a I've visit
a lot of different places, you know when it comes
(41:37):
to religion. So you know, I'll check out a Buddhist
temple for a while, and I'll go to a Catholic
church for a while, and you know, just pay attention
and look around and listen and see what I'm getting. Um.
And sometimes I say one place longer than others. Um,
there's a church that I was going to here in Tennessee.
(41:58):
And I have a friend who was going through some
hard times, particularly with this COVID and she's worked for
the church, and she's benefited and been there to help
in so many areas, and she needed some help. So UM,
myself and some others we joined together to to help her.
And then after that we were like, okay, so you
(42:20):
know we're in a good a better space, a good space.
Let's go to the church. And they told her they
would pray for her. And I was like, wait, ha,
I'm having a hard time with that when the pastor has,
you know, a dumb, ridiculous, big gass house, like I'm
(42:41):
having a hard time. My mom used to call her
counseliment about it, like that church you did, Yeah, I
just I don't understand why there isn't more UM like
like similar to the Black Panthers where you're supplying supplying
food and shelter for people, like I don't understand. And
and somebody like, oh ha, my church. I'm just talking
(43:03):
about as a whole because this is such a part
of UM, a part of Black people and what we
pour ourselves into and were pouring ourselves into, not just
our faith absolutely without question, but we're also pouring ourselves
into these um these edifices, were pouring ourselves into these
(43:24):
these places that don't seem to benefit the people as
they should. There should be more universities, you um, um,
HBCU should not be struggling with the amount of money
that comes through you know, um churches. The churches are
getting bigger, but and the the you know, the pool
is getting bigger. They've got lights like you know, uh,
(43:47):
like a show like Vega shows that basket comes around.
I don't know threefold times, you know, I just need it,
whatever it is to actually be a benefit or yeah,
needs to be a benefit to the people and love
to the churches that are because we know there's not everybody.
I want the shout out to Alfred Street Baptists over
there in Virginia that's trying to keep their church as
(44:09):
small as possible with their thirty thousand members and still
given to their hbc U s and all thank you.
They just added they just added services throughout the day.
I had a church once that with the pastor was
actually a carpenter. That's what he worked. And I love
(44:31):
that because he could understand it wasn't just a you know,
an offering, you know that he was living off offerings,
that he was actually working. I just don't think you
should get without girls, please, ye think. I think what
happens is that, Um, obviously you have had many conversations
(44:55):
over the over the you know, several hundred years that
we've been on in this country in the West, where
we've we've tackled this idea that black wealth and access
to money helps us as a community and that's going
to push us forward. And one of the main places
where that wealth can be distributed, like you know, is
(45:17):
typically in church, and so it was especially for black folks,
you know, and or in their religious institutions period, because
we've seen this kind of thing happen, you know, across faiths,
you know what I mean. And I think it's a
good thing to a degree to have a church be
a base for you know, social um supports and and
(45:38):
and community supports. But the thing is that the community
itself isn't just Christian people. So until we have a
situation where as a community we can have like diverse
spaces for everybody to come together, you know, and under
the guise of strengthening the community and giving resources, um, well,
(46:00):
just be empowering these entities to just get into the
race of who can raise the most money, who can
bring in the most membership who can do X, Y
and Z until we start really working into coalitions and
stuff like that. And not that we don't have them,
because every idea that we could come up with during
this this podcast, it's been tried. So the thing is
(46:21):
that I think re re shifting our focus back into
coalitions is important. I mean, I hate to pull out
my little history lesson on this one, but we love
this party. But you know Denmark VC, who is really
(46:51):
famous revolutionary and man who planned a revolt, uh slave
revolt that actually was not successful, but it was used
as a way to I mean, it sparked a lot
of change in America moving toward emancipation. So the idea
here is that when he planned this revolt, he was
(47:13):
a very devout Christian, but one of his main conspirators
was a man named Golla Jack and he he um
practiced African spiritual traditions. And hey, you had a man
who was a devout Christian who planned a slavery vote
with a man who was strictly in the practice of
(47:34):
African spirituality. And I think that this is really really
profound because what it says is that black people, no
matter what we believe no matter how we celebrate, no
matter what we how we worship, that we have a
combined and a unified struggle, and that struggle is against
the oppressor. And so I think that's really important when
(47:56):
we think about these kinds of things, that if churches,
we can't put all the weight on just the one
church or just the churches. The churches have to be
not be afraid to work with the moss. The moss
has to not be afraid to work with the church.
The church had the moss, can't be afraid to work
with the with the African spiritualists, you can all of
this is all this has to come together so that
(48:18):
we can serve one another, so that we can celebrate
family and and and and building up community, you know
what I mean. And that's just my personal little two
sense belief. Right, if we don't toss, if we don't
toss these things, we'll always have some sort of critique.
We will have a critique, and that that will that
will maintain that there will be a hierarchy and a
(48:40):
and a you know, monopoly within each of these spaces.
Somebody will come up on it. It just is what
it is. I am looking to see us bloom and
prosper and grow from our efforts. And anything that you're
pouring into that does not blossom is fut It's dead
(49:01):
earth word word. I'd like you to check out how
to make a Negro Christian? Oh shit, yes, ma'am. Don't
get me wrong. You're and I'm pretty sure that you
know some of you are offended, and you're probably going
to get me wrong. Well, that happens. I can't do
(49:23):
anything about somebody getting me wrong. But I do know
this that God has been in every single instant of
my life, every single bit of it. He knows me
better then I know myself, and has been a beautiful,
beautiful guide and even my foolishness, and I am grateful
(49:48):
for all of it. How do you eat an elephant?
One by kind? It's producer back with another resource today,
Jill brought up the book How to Make a Negro
Christian by Kamal mckazy to Hootie. In eighteen forty two,
(50:09):
Thomas Purse published the book The Religious Instruction of the
Negroes in the United States, written by Charles Kolcock Jones.
Jones owned plantations in Liberty County, Georgia and wasn't enslavor
and a Presbyterian minister. He encouraged other ministers and enflavors
to provide religious instruction to black people. In this book,
(50:30):
Jones advocated for evangelizing enslaved people, which he thought would
make them more obedient, intellectual, morally upstanding and pliable, leaving
them without Christianity and in ignorance he believed would make
them susceptible to rebellion. Mcazy to Hootie's book, How to
Make a Negro Christian contains a reprint of Jones's works,
(50:51):
along with commentary and context around how and why Black
Americans have come to embrace Christianity on such a large scale.
The history of Black folks and Christianity is deep and intricate,
but you can start with How to Make a Negro Christian.
I'll drop a link in the episode description and that
(51:13):
my children, my sisters, my brothers, my friends. That is that.
Thank you for listening to Jay dot Il, always hoping
to spark conversation peace. Thank you for listening to Jill
Scott Presents Jay dot Il the podcast. This podcast is
(51:50):
hosted by Jill Scotty St. Claire and Age Graden. Danceler.
It's executive producers are Jill Scott, Sean g and Brian Calhoun.
Is produced by Laya sat Claire and me Eve jeph Coke.
The editing and sound design for this episode we're done
by Taylor Choma. Hey y'all, y'all, can we pause for
(52:11):
one second? One second? Hold a couple of years? Hey, hey, y'all,
you're walking too hard on the floor. Sorry, I thought
something else is about to go down. I enjoy it
every time now and listen, you know, Agia Um, she
(52:34):
gott to yell at the people that live in there,
the people she made and the one she didn't, yelling
at them every now and then They told him to
shut up. They're walking too hard. I don't know what
it's like submit in the heel of their foot when
you figured out. Let me know what I can tell
my upstairs neighbor. God damn. J dot Ill is a
(52:55):
production of I Heart Radio. For more podcasts from I
Heart Radi, you visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast,
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
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