January 23, 2025 • 22 mins
It's easy to talk about the surface of dating: the restaurants, nights out, and gifts. But Matchmaker Barbie Adler advises looking deeper at how a relationship FEELS.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:12):
First of all, how are you.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
I'm good. It's good to see you.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
You too. I think what keeps coming back that people
don't talk enough about people dating. The topic of dating
is a lot of external. We went there, We did that.
I met him, he's like this, he said this, he
bought me that. It's very transactional and it's very like
we can list all the things that happen, just like
if you're on the phone with your therapist. We went there,
I did this. Even if it's about work or anything,
(00:36):
you're always describing versus how do you feel? Like what's
really going on? And what I'm saying is you're kind
of saying overall, like we don't need to talk about
dating at all unless you're coming into this as a
person who's working on yourself. Like the number one thing
you're saying is and it would be against your entire
business because you're trying to get paid to match people.
(00:57):
But you're saying, before you get to baseline, they're relationship
with yourself is number one. You need to date yourself.
You need to know who you are and work on yourself.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Absolutely and be roded in reality about who you are
and what you're looking for. And that you're healed and
ready for that. I truly believe that in relationships you
are co CEOs, and I think that's also the mindset
you have to have, is like, hey, how are we doing?
It's like having those conversations about not just the things
the places you want to go, but like my giving
(01:26):
you what you need and being honest about some of
those things. And so you have those conversations, you can
make it fun like temperature read what can I do
more of? Differently better? If you think about reviews and
a corporate setting, you have those annually or even checking in,
checking in like hey, how are we doing? What else
can I do for you? What do you mean more
for me? What could I what could you do more
(01:47):
for me? And vice versa. And you know, I always say,
like every relationship needs to be watered or decays. So
if you're just having busy busy and going place to
place and not like talking about your the we of
the business, the view too, and the copplehood, it's going
to decay because you're obviously perhaps sweeping things on the
rug because it becomes once you like have sex and
(02:09):
you get and it's still a fun phase and it
becomes harder to talk about the real things. But if
you talk about ongoing and it's just part of the
fabric of your relationship, it's kind of baked in to realize,
like we're going to talk about things.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
My therapist said today, she was saying, like literally, it's
what she said today. She said, like people rush in
to know what it is and want to defind it
because it means you get to skip a step in
the class, like you don't have to do the uncertain
Are we going to be good for each other? Are
we going to commit to each other? Like we're both
insecure and scared. We're jumping to the next level. So
now we're both safe, we're both in a committed relationship.
(02:42):
But you don't go through that phase of like is
this really gonna work? Where are we both going? Are
we both in a car that's going in the same direction?
Like that's what that was too. It was like hi,
And then when everybody's feeding into it to your point,
like the whole world's performative, Like everybody's feeding into it,
but it's like how are you two? That's interesting, Like
with people, we get excited on the fumes, on the frosting.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
Yeah, it's also like the label. It's like you feel
you're going off the fact that you're wee and you're
the coupling of it and how you're presenting to the society.
But if you're lonely inside and knowing that it's not
what it is, like, who cares about that? If you're
not getting your needs and that you're happy.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
Oh, nothing's worse, Nothing is worse. And everyone thinking you're
happy and being miserable, that's not great.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
And now you're just victimizing yourself, right, Like that's just
like a jail sentence and that's not happy. And so
it's so much better to just be real with yourself
and stop, like can't lie to yourself, Like you have
to make that contract with yourself, like I'm not going
to bullshit myself. It's just not it states or too
quide and we're too smart and whyse but that and
too of all?
Speaker 1 (03:44):
Like yes, also, I think that I think that it's
a cautionary tale for people, even in small towns. I
think to your point, the more that you're like sharing
and performing your relationship for other people and allowing them
in meaning like are you like telling everybody at the
dinner about your amazing sex life, or he bought me this,
or we're the queen couple everyone loves at the country club,
(04:07):
and then like you end up like disappointing everybody, and
they're invested in your relationship and they're gonna gossip more
about your relationship. It's like the po we we are
not involved in Harrison Ford's relationship. We're not involved in
Michelle Fiber's relationship. We're not involved in George Clooney and
a Mal's relationship. We're not really you know, we're not.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
Really involved, Sizzle. It's to your point. I think that's
totally smart to realize because it's private and there's no
there's no sensation there. But I bet they have a
really healthy relationship. But there's probably a lot to be
envious of.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
Oh yeah, but they're not. I'm saying they didn't take
us on the way up and then want to get
us out on the way down.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
Exactly. Yeah, And I think that's where you're just gonna
be careful that you're also not living someone else's.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
Like vision of your relationship.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
Right, Like if your parents love the guy, but you don't,
you feel conflicted because you want your parents to feel validated.
Then you're making them happy. But if you're not happy,
then it doesn't matter because eventually you're going to be
disappointing your parents and yourself, so that's not worth it.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
Or the image of what it looks like. You get
to look like the lady who lunches, You get to be,
you know, the envy of your friends because you don't
have to work or whatever. People are trying. Yeah, but
I will tell you that I said this before on
this podcast. This is shocking and it's coming to fruition
even more. I'm meeting an extraordinary number of men who
have custody of their children as a result of getting
(05:25):
into relationships with young, beautiful women. The women are excited.
They don't really have to work. The men are providers,
and the women have the life that they think that
everybody wants, or that they think that they want, And
then their kids get older and it becomes empty nests
and they're drinking and they're popping pills and they're partying
and they're bored. And the man has worked on his
(05:45):
career and really dug in and still at fifty sixty
seventy still has purpose like meeting somebody needs them to
be somewhere somebody. Something's going on, some deals going on,
some actions happening, and the woman is kind of waiting
for him to come home, take her somewhere, buy her something,
go on a vacation. And the friends don't feed that enough,
and the kids off away with their own lives don't
(06:06):
feed it enough, and neither will pilates for an hour.
I neither will lunch, and neither will shopping for outfits
for pilates. Like it's hard to fill a day with
lack of.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
Purpose, right, Well, that's why I always say is stay
interested and interesting because that will That's like the key.
The ingredients are making you happy and feel fulfilled, because
you do need to have purpose. And that's why I
feel blessed that I work, because I would be so
bored if I wasn't. And I do think you as
you stay in a relationship, it's it's less pressure on
the relationship. Everything has to be from someone else, like
(06:35):
it has to come from within that you're your own person,
the rescue and yourself. You're not waiting for someone else
to fill you. I think is important.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
I think it was Anne Hathaway. It was Anne Hathaway.
And I think Michelle Pfeiffer reinforced a similar concept was like,
but I think Anne Hathory really said it. I think
she was saying I believe it was her. It doesn't matter,
it's about the concept. But she said, we individually are complete.
We individually have our own full lives and are complete,
and we choose to be together. Like It's like, it's like, yeah,
(07:08):
I don't even know that some is maybe maybe the
sum is greater than its parts, but maybe not. They're
each individual whole parts, but that just like love to
be together and share their whole part with the other.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
Yeah, and you both have things to contribute right into
exchange and like teach each other. It's not just teacher.
It's like you're both coming whole, holistic to the relationship,
whether it's friendship or anything I could apply.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
And I'm finding that a lot of the men that
have been with those women in those situations are saying
they want a woman who has their own thing going on.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
I mean, this is not new, but yes, it is
one hundred listes, but this.
Speaker 1 (07:41):
Is not but women, but young girls want to get
the ring, get the dress, get the thing, like get
the jealousies.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
They think that's going to make it happy. They have
no idea that, unfortunately, it's going to start a very
sad life of being unfulfilled and about continuing to make
their life worthy and they have meaning in other ways.
One hundred percent.
Speaker 1 (08:01):
Yeah, My guy Breck said to me, you have to
be with someone who is something or is going to
be something like.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
Because of how you are, because that's who you are.
You need that and everyone shouldn't have their own thing
going on. It'll make them happy as a person and
more interesting and exciting at the end of the day
and fulfilled because, like you said, once you get the ring,
have the wedding, have the lifestyle. Eventually you have to
have more than that, Like you have to have purpose
(08:29):
and feel like you're giving back in some way.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
So there's another thing I would done XCES. So let's
say someone was in a twenty year marriage, a fifteen
year marriage, and then they come into another relationship. Now,
you're always going to be curious about not on the
first date, I know that I'm saying, but you're gonna
be curious about what they're coming in from. Did she
cheat on him? Did he cheat on her? Do you
why did they have religious differences, did was he a workaholic?
(09:08):
Did he feel unloved? Something that can inform you. So
there's like a blanket rule where people are like, don't
talk about exes, and I actually disagree with that. I think,
not like, oh I miss how James bought me flower
like not that, but I think that a past relationship
informs positive and negative things about a current I think
it informs, wow, this is really nice. I'm not used
to this. I'm used to that, like yeah, and this
(09:28):
is feeling really good like that if you're validating something,
So what do you think about that?
Speaker 2 (09:33):
I think as long as like that's an advanced move,
not on the first like a couple of dates, I
think it's more important to get to know each other
and stay in the present and not go into the
past because unfortunately, not everyone could land talking about it
unemotionally or without anger. But if you could tell, if
you could talk about it, where you learned about yourself,
you learned unemotionally about like it's almost like saying we
(09:57):
weren't a good match and this is why without the
of anger, because.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
No, like why the job was great. I was ready
to he was ready to move on. We hadn't. It
was a nut y eggs. I learned a lot.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
Yeah he is amazing, but he's more this way and
I needed more of that, and we learned about that.
I have nothing but great things to say about him.
But we were the right. We weren't properly matched. We
were a good match for each other.
Speaker 1 (10:18):
Well that's an okay, So another nugget, Barbie.
Speaker 2 (10:20):
So positive, positive because.
Speaker 1 (10:23):
I feel that all of these things that are like
rules in life, you get into onto the playing field
and then you find something's happening that's drawing in the moment,
and you're going to bring up something that happened in
the past. And if you're in your own head about
the fact that you're not supposed to be talking about an X,
then it's like even worse. And my point that the
point that you're bringing up is a that it's how
you're doing do it, But you're really saying that the
(10:43):
reason that you don't want to bring up an X
is that you don't want to appear that you're still
in love with or interested or obsessed with the X,
or that you're angry about it. Like I did have
a guy talk to me about his divorce and how
she took him for everything and like talking bad and
then you're realizing that this is a person who's talking
bad about his X. So that's a character flaw. But
(11:04):
you're not talking about just that someone should blanket statement,
never refer to a previous life. You're talking about why, right.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
I think the biggest thing is, like you know, your audience, like,
do not talk to this person if you're in therapy,
you're not. This is not a therapist and they're not
They don't have the contact to understand that maybe this
person really was not a human, right, it could have
been a bad actor or bad actress. So I think
the biggest thing is if you're able to talk about
it unemotionally, not playing victim, not being seeming wounded where
(11:35):
we're some who the way WHOA she either has holding
a lot of anger, she seems unwounded or unhealed, then
that will backfire. But if you say it from a
you know, informational like, yeah, we had a great you know,
I have nothing but great things to say about we
just weren't compatible. Unfortunately she was, you know, in just
(11:55):
counting it that way and having it more of like
an elevator pitch, not where you're going on on an eye.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
No, I agree with you, it's it could be anecdotal.
Speaker 2 (12:03):
You have to like know you have it like sharp
and quick and not like going on because then they'll
be like, oh my gosh, this person.
Speaker 1 (12:08):
Is shut up. I don't want to hear about your ex.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
Yeah, it's too much, And like you want to create
your own memories and your own experiences. And I give
this advice out a lot for someone that's widowed where
they might have had this amazing relationship and they're talking
about the past because they had decades together. But at
some point you want to start. The more time you're
with someone, the experiences will be shared and you'll have
more things to talk about for your present, your future.
(12:31):
But you can't just be dwelling them the past, because
someone will think that you your heart is still filled
by the past person.
Speaker 1 (12:38):
Yes, like you have to.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
Make sure that it's positive and they feel that you
are evolved and ready for something new and not a negative.
Especially they'll be thinking, if you're talking angry about men,
I'm going to be the next person you're talking angry
about her. I don't want you to treat me that way.
So you have to be careful what you're sharing. But
if you could say so much how I learned that's.
Speaker 1 (12:56):
Yeah, or about why something is just different, like oh,
at that job, we never got to go outside, and
at this new job that I have, this is interesting
that we're going outside. That's something that's a positive. That's
not saying a trashing. It's just a different dynamic that
might be something you are better suited to.
Speaker 2 (13:09):
Yeah, but you just don't want to compare because that
might all make someone feel insincture about them too, Like
you don't want to say good things about your ex
versus them, like oh my ex took me no, not that.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
But if you do the opposite, if you say that
that was no.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
But as long as it's compliment, like this is so nice,
like I so appreciate you being so verbal, or I
so appreciate you being the man with the plan and
maybe your reservations.
Speaker 1 (13:30):
I'm not used to being treated this way. I'm not
used to thoughtful. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. I think
you can say that stuff.
Speaker 2 (13:36):
COUCA is a positive. Yes, it compliments compliment.
Speaker 1 (13:39):
Yeah, that's the thing that's when it comes up. Wow,
this is really nice because I'm at you. That's great,
that's very helpful. And also, every single person makes the
ex the villain, and there's always somebody on the other
side of it no matter what it is, and you're
never going to know the truth. It's like a divorce.
There's a thousand divorces. So it's just not worth it
for anybody to do it. It's not worth it for
you to talk about how insane your ex was because
most people aren' going to believe because everybody's at a
(14:01):
table talking about how and staying their X was.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
Absolutely and I think that you will be a breathly
fresh air if you don't villainize your ex.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
Especially someone like me, because I've had a very serious divorce.
But and I still I'm just like, it took a minute,
it was a long it was a you know, it
was not it was challenging, but I have my beautiful
do you know we've said this.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
So there was a time and a place to tell
people and unpack the things that you lived through and
that you had to go through. I think that absolutely
I'm not saying she, but I think until someone understands
the context of like you, I think that you shouldn't
share it until it doesn't have to be a certain
amount of dates or anything like that. But I mean,
I would say at least the two or three dates
(14:39):
ear build on your relationship together, versus focusing so much
on anything negative oversharing a negative in general, negative anything
about your family, your friends, your career, anything that you're
not happy with. This is not a therapy session. This
is not the place. It's just gonna lead to it'za
gona lead to a second date?
Speaker 1 (15:10):
And how do you navigate and advise navigating quote unquote dating,
like meaning when someone says I'm dating someone, so because
there's meeting people, I went on a date, I liked him,
I went out the next time. I don't think it's it.
You know, that's like that's that's not really that's you're
dating overall as like a sport and you're meeting different people,
but nothing is really landed. But then you're like regularly
(15:34):
dating one person, and like there's always like a sniffing
out of like when do you have to like when
do you feel like you're lacking integrity in that practice
because there's sex involved, there's intimacy involve there's a time
when and that's also not a silent contract, meaning you
could sleep with seven people at the same time on
seven different nights. It's your own body and your own choice.
(15:54):
You don't have to disclose that unless someone asks, and
then you're gonna be honest. You're allowed to do what
you want. So what is people are on the Bachelor
and they're sleeping with multiple people, and it's like, but
then how would they know who they liked more if
they don't sleep with the multiple people because they're in
a concentrated program. And I know that's not life, but
I'm just saying it makes sense that someone would want
(16:15):
to be doing more intimate things, not even including sex,
but like sometimes they're like they're meeting people's parents, they're
doing more like these things are very personal. So how
do you navigate the between just meeting people and going
out to dinner and then that no man's land between
that and relationship?
Speaker 2 (16:31):
I mean, I do think part of the secret sauce
is staying in your own power, in your own confidence
that like you know you're worth and leading with your
charm and your charisma of why they even like you,
and not even having to in your head or rebally
even have to put a label on it and just
continue to have fun. That's how you're going to catch someone.
(16:51):
But what if they don't want that from you. There's
two people in it, right, But then eventually, if you
have paid attention, are you just booty call girl? Are
you not? Have you not advanced where you're meeting each
other's friends and families like you have to pay attention
collectively to all the cues to see how you're fitting
into someone's wife.
Speaker 1 (17:08):
Oh so it doesn't have to be said. It's it's
more actions and words. It's actions, and I think it's actions.
I don't think you need to have the conversation. I
mean for some they.
Speaker 2 (17:17):
Do say like, hey, just so you know, what are
we I'm choosing to have sex with you? But I
just say, you know, I'm not comfortable having sex with
anybody else. I'm not suggesting me to talk about what
this is, but to me, I'm wanting to get to
know you and I'm always choosing this. So like you could,
you could have conversations about it, whether it's before or after,
(17:37):
that could help frame it.
Speaker 1 (17:39):
And I think that's weird because I think someone's not
gonna know how connect there to someone until they have
sex and you're saying that and it puts the silent
contract on the sex.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
Yeah. Yeah, but I think afterwards you could say not
right away, but at some point discuss it.
Speaker 1 (17:51):
Oh, once you've been intimate and you feel connected, Yeah, like, hey,
you're going to start sleeping with them regularly and you're
going to be like, I'm not doing this with five
other people.
Speaker 2 (17:59):
But I do think it's more about like knowing your
own boundaries, knowing what you need, and instead of just
having the labels of the talks, just leading with actions
and then making sure that you're in time, sharing what
your needs are because they're.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
Not, and what you can handle. You could have an
intellectual idea of what you're going to do, but what
can you it's on a movie, what can you actually handle.
You might be able to sleep before guys. At the
same time, you might be able to not sleep with
one without you know, getting a ring.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
Well. The other thing is like be careful what you
ask for, because like, what if you don't want to
be in a full fledged committee, excuse a relationship with
one person just because you don't even know them. So
you want to be sure that you're taking your own
time to get to know them. Again, you are the
one selecting. It's not just about being chosen. That's great
that he has great taste and wants to be with you,
but maybe you haven't decided of one hundred percent you're
(18:49):
ready for that. So it's like, hey, I am with you.
Take this as a compliment. I love our time together
and I'm so excited to get to know you. But
it doesn't have to be defined because it might backfire
you and then your relationship and then you're not getting
to know other people either until you know that it's
your person. So I think it's but I think it
also to celebrate, like, oh my gosh, I met someone,
Like that's such an exciting thing. Sometimes people race and
(19:11):
they're like then they start getting insecure about well, I
don't know. He hasn't asked me. If I don't know
you're boyfriend, girlfriend, I don't know where we stand. And
it's like, okay, you can just keep looking for it's
the action, mind everything, and just enjoy the season. It's like,
you don't have to know. Maybe the more you even
to know him, you'll realize, oh, I don't like what
we're not combatible for each other.
Speaker 1 (19:32):
Also, that's what you just said. Is part of the
thing that happens in the future with the woman waiting
around for the man, is that I see a lot
like the girls waiting around and hanging on every word
and everything that is or isn't happening because they don't
have purpose and you don't have enough going on, and
you really have got to be busy, bitch, Like you've
got to be busy because you're getting your own head
(19:54):
and you it's it's it's great to be like to
have something that you have to be at that you
have to and you're not just hanging on what they're doing,
and why are they dictating what's happening? Like why can't
you just be in your own two shoes, like being
like I don't need to know from you what I am.
You're not gonna give me the green light?
Speaker 2 (20:13):
Absolutely, And it's also your overthinking, like your beautiful brain
is now going to places and creating plots and you
know the scene that never even happened, and that's where
your friends flement in a crowd source and start telling
you all this like done.
Speaker 1 (20:26):
Thiss, oh yeah he should have done this, you should
know this. Yeah, exactly, by the way, great.
Speaker 2 (20:31):
And then you're completely disjoining your own relationship with your
own happiness. It's like, doesn't have to be that way?
Speaker 1 (20:36):
Yes, amazing, Okay, Well I recommend to everybody to have
somebody that they can talk to, but make sure that
like a therapist or someone else has validated that they're
giving good advice. Like I literally have listened to things
that you have said and the other girls on here,
and my own therapist has said, I actually think that
she's giving great advice, meaning you can't listen to everybody.
And I've actually talked to my therapist about one woman
(20:58):
that I work with who we joke my chief Dating
Advice or my CDA, and she has validated she's like
that she's giving good advice. Like you don't want to
just go half cocked. And every girl who's willing to
listen to you when you're drunk is going to, like,
you know, tell you what you want to hear. You
could be really it's going to a shitty doctor.
Speaker 2 (21:14):
You know. It's also it's so dangerous because they could
either they're not informed, or there could be jealousy. There's
could be so many things that play. But if people
are giving like angry advice.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
Yes, it could be also what's going on in their
own life too negative, jealousy you cannot.
Speaker 2 (21:28):
Yeah that they feel, say, I, you just can't go there.
Speaker 1 (21:31):
Misery wants company, you're too nosy of Other things don't
really matter, like what do you get you for your birthday?
Speaker 2 (21:37):
And like where did you go for dinner? It's like
that's not relevant to like probably makes you feel and
what you need. That's just like that is just fishing
for things that are putting to the aufster what to
(22:05):
do to the upst
First of all, how are you.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
I'm good. It's good to see you.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
You too. I think what keeps coming back that people
don't talk enough about people dating. The topic of dating
is a lot of external. We went there, We did that.
I met him, he's like this, he said this, he
bought me that. It's very transactional and it's very like
we can list all the things that happen, just like
if you're on the phone with your therapist. We went there,
I did this. Even if it's about work or anything,
(00:36):
you're always describing versus how do you feel? Like what's
really going on? And what I'm saying is you're kind
of saying overall, like we don't need to talk about
dating at all unless you're coming into this as a
person who's working on yourself. Like the number one thing
you're saying is and it would be against your entire
business because you're trying to get paid to match people.
(00:57):
But you're saying, before you get to baseline, they're relationship
with yourself is number one. You need to date yourself.
You need to know who you are and work on yourself.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Absolutely and be roded in reality about who you are
and what you're looking for. And that you're healed and
ready for that. I truly believe that in relationships you
are co CEOs, and I think that's also the mindset
you have to have, is like, hey, how are we doing?
It's like having those conversations about not just the things
the places you want to go, but like my giving
(01:26):
you what you need and being honest about some of
those things. And so you have those conversations, you can
make it fun like temperature read what can I do
more of? Differently better? If you think about reviews and
a corporate setting, you have those annually or even checking in,
checking in like hey, how are we doing? What else
can I do for you? What do you mean more
for me? What could I what could you do more
(01:47):
for me? And vice versa. And you know, I always say,
like every relationship needs to be watered or decays. So
if you're just having busy busy and going place to
place and not like talking about your the we of
the business, the view too, and the copplehood, it's going
to decay because you're obviously perhaps sweeping things on the
rug because it becomes once you like have sex and
(02:09):
you get and it's still a fun phase and it
becomes harder to talk about the real things. But if
you talk about ongoing and it's just part of the
fabric of your relationship, it's kind of baked in to realize,
like we're going to talk about things.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
My therapist said today, she was saying, like literally, it's
what she said today. She said, like people rush in
to know what it is and want to defind it
because it means you get to skip a step in
the class, like you don't have to do the uncertain
Are we going to be good for each other? Are
we going to commit to each other? Like we're both
insecure and scared. We're jumping to the next level. So
now we're both safe, we're both in a committed relationship.
(02:42):
But you don't go through that phase of like is
this really gonna work? Where are we both going? Are
we both in a car that's going in the same direction?
Like that's what that was too. It was like hi,
And then when everybody's feeding into it to your point,
like the whole world's performative, Like everybody's feeding into it,
but it's like how are you two? That's interesting, Like
with people, we get excited on the fumes, on the frosting.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
Yeah, it's also like the label. It's like you feel
you're going off the fact that you're wee and you're
the coupling of it and how you're presenting to the society.
But if you're lonely inside and knowing that it's not
what it is, like, who cares about that? If you're
not getting your needs and that you're happy.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
Oh, nothing's worse, Nothing is worse. And everyone thinking you're
happy and being miserable, that's not great.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
And now you're just victimizing yourself, right, Like that's just
like a jail sentence and that's not happy. And so
it's so much better to just be real with yourself
and stop, like can't lie to yourself, Like you have
to make that contract with yourself, like I'm not going
to bullshit myself. It's just not it states or too
quide and we're too smart and whyse but that and
too of all?
Speaker 1 (03:44):
Like yes, also, I think that I think that it's
a cautionary tale for people, even in small towns. I
think to your point, the more that you're like sharing
and performing your relationship for other people and allowing them
in meaning like are you like telling everybody at the
dinner about your amazing sex life, or he bought me this,
or we're the queen couple everyone loves at the country club,
(04:07):
and then like you end up like disappointing everybody, and
they're invested in your relationship and they're gonna gossip more
about your relationship. It's like the po we we are
not involved in Harrison Ford's relationship. We're not involved in
Michelle Fiber's relationship. We're not involved in George Clooney and
a Mal's relationship. We're not really you know, we're not.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
Really involved, Sizzle. It's to your point. I think that's
totally smart to realize because it's private and there's no
there's no sensation there. But I bet they have a
really healthy relationship. But there's probably a lot to be
envious of.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
Oh yeah, but they're not. I'm saying they didn't take
us on the way up and then want to get
us out on the way down.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
Exactly. Yeah, And I think that's where you're just gonna
be careful that you're also not living someone else's.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
Like vision of your relationship.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
Right, Like if your parents love the guy, but you don't,
you feel conflicted because you want your parents to feel validated.
Then you're making them happy. But if you're not happy,
then it doesn't matter because eventually you're going to be
disappointing your parents and yourself, so that's not worth it.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
Or the image of what it looks like. You get
to look like the lady who lunches, You get to be,
you know, the envy of your friends because you don't
have to work or whatever. People are trying. Yeah, but
I will tell you that I said this before on
this podcast. This is shocking and it's coming to fruition
even more. I'm meeting an extraordinary number of men who
have custody of their children as a result of getting
(05:25):
into relationships with young, beautiful women. The women are excited.
They don't really have to work. The men are providers,
and the women have the life that they think that
everybody wants, or that they think that they want, And
then their kids get older and it becomes empty nests
and they're drinking and they're popping pills and they're partying
and they're bored. And the man has worked on his
(05:45):
career and really dug in and still at fifty sixty
seventy still has purpose like meeting somebody needs them to
be somewhere somebody. Something's going on, some deals going on,
some actions happening, and the woman is kind of waiting
for him to come home, take her somewhere, buy her something,
go on a vacation. And the friends don't feed that enough,
and the kids off away with their own lives don't
(06:06):
feed it enough, and neither will pilates for an hour.
I neither will lunch, and neither will shopping for outfits
for pilates. Like it's hard to fill a day with
lack of.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
Purpose, right, Well, that's why I always say is stay
interested and interesting because that will That's like the key.
The ingredients are making you happy and feel fulfilled, because
you do need to have purpose. And that's why I
feel blessed that I work, because I would be so
bored if I wasn't. And I do think you as
you stay in a relationship, it's it's less pressure on
the relationship. Everything has to be from someone else, like
(06:35):
it has to come from within that you're your own person,
the rescue and yourself. You're not waiting for someone else
to fill you. I think is important.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
I think it was Anne Hathaway. It was Anne Hathaway.
And I think Michelle Pfeiffer reinforced a similar concept was like,
but I think Anne Hathory really said it. I think
she was saying I believe it was her. It doesn't matter,
it's about the concept. But she said, we individually are complete.
We individually have our own full lives and are complete,
and we choose to be together. Like It's like, it's like, yeah,
(07:08):
I don't even know that some is maybe maybe the
sum is greater than its parts, but maybe not. They're
each individual whole parts, but that just like love to
be together and share their whole part with the other.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
Yeah, and you both have things to contribute right into
exchange and like teach each other. It's not just teacher.
It's like you're both coming whole, holistic to the relationship,
whether it's friendship or anything I could apply.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
And I'm finding that a lot of the men that
have been with those women in those situations are saying
they want a woman who has their own thing going on.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
I mean, this is not new, but yes, it is
one hundred listes, but this.
Speaker 1 (07:41):
Is not but women, but young girls want to get
the ring, get the dress, get the thing, like get
the jealousies.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
They think that's going to make it happy. They have
no idea that, unfortunately, it's going to start a very
sad life of being unfulfilled and about continuing to make
their life worthy and they have meaning in other ways.
One hundred percent.
Speaker 1 (08:01):
Yeah, My guy Breck said to me, you have to
be with someone who is something or is going to
be something like.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
Because of how you are, because that's who you are.
You need that and everyone shouldn't have their own thing
going on. It'll make them happy as a person and
more interesting and exciting at the end of the day
and fulfilled because, like you said, once you get the ring,
have the wedding, have the lifestyle. Eventually you have to
have more than that, Like you have to have purpose
(08:29):
and feel like you're giving back in some way.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
So there's another thing I would done XCES. So let's
say someone was in a twenty year marriage, a fifteen
year marriage, and then they come into another relationship. Now,
you're always going to be curious about not on the
first date, I know that I'm saying, but you're gonna
be curious about what they're coming in from. Did she
cheat on him? Did he cheat on her? Do you
why did they have religious differences, did was he a workaholic?
(09:08):
Did he feel unloved? Something that can inform you. So
there's like a blanket rule where people are like, don't
talk about exes, and I actually disagree with that. I think,
not like, oh I miss how James bought me flower
like not that, but I think that a past relationship
informs positive and negative things about a current I think
it informs, wow, this is really nice. I'm not used
to this. I'm used to that, like yeah, and this
(09:28):
is feeling really good like that if you're validating something,
So what do you think about that?
Speaker 2 (09:33):
I think as long as like that's an advanced move,
not on the first like a couple of dates, I
think it's more important to get to know each other
and stay in the present and not go into the
past because unfortunately, not everyone could land talking about it
unemotionally or without anger. But if you could tell, if
you could talk about it, where you learned about yourself,
you learned unemotionally about like it's almost like saying we
(09:57):
weren't a good match and this is why without the
of anger, because.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
No, like why the job was great. I was ready
to he was ready to move on. We hadn't. It
was a nut y eggs. I learned a lot.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
Yeah he is amazing, but he's more this way and
I needed more of that, and we learned about that.
I have nothing but great things to say about him.
But we were the right. We weren't properly matched. We
were a good match for each other.
Speaker 1 (10:18):
Well that's an okay, So another nugget, Barbie.
Speaker 2 (10:20):
So positive, positive because.
Speaker 1 (10:23):
I feel that all of these things that are like
rules in life, you get into onto the playing field
and then you find something's happening that's drawing in the moment,
and you're going to bring up something that happened in
the past. And if you're in your own head about
the fact that you're not supposed to be talking about an X,
then it's like even worse. And my point that the
point that you're bringing up is a that it's how
you're doing do it, But you're really saying that the
(10:43):
reason that you don't want to bring up an X
is that you don't want to appear that you're still
in love with or interested or obsessed with the X,
or that you're angry about it. Like I did have
a guy talk to me about his divorce and how
she took him for everything and like talking bad and
then you're realizing that this is a person who's talking
bad about his X. So that's a character flaw. But
(11:04):
you're not talking about just that someone should blanket statement,
never refer to a previous life. You're talking about why, right.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
I think the biggest thing is, like you know, your audience, like,
do not talk to this person if you're in therapy,
you're not. This is not a therapist and they're not
They don't have the contact to understand that maybe this
person really was not a human, right, it could have
been a bad actor or bad actress. So I think
the biggest thing is if you're able to talk about
it unemotionally, not playing victim, not being seeming wounded where
(11:35):
we're some who the way WHOA she either has holding
a lot of anger, she seems unwounded or unhealed, then
that will backfire. But if you say it from a
you know, informational like, yeah, we had a great you know,
I have nothing but great things to say about we
just weren't compatible. Unfortunately she was, you know, in just
(11:55):
counting it that way and having it more of like
an elevator pitch, not where you're going on on an eye.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
No, I agree with you, it's it could be anecdotal.
Speaker 2 (12:03):
You have to like know you have it like sharp
and quick and not like going on because then they'll
be like, oh my gosh, this person.
Speaker 1 (12:08):
Is shut up. I don't want to hear about your ex.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
Yeah, it's too much, And like you want to create
your own memories and your own experiences. And I give
this advice out a lot for someone that's widowed where
they might have had this amazing relationship and they're talking
about the past because they had decades together. But at
some point you want to start. The more time you're
with someone, the experiences will be shared and you'll have
more things to talk about for your present, your future.
(12:31):
But you can't just be dwelling them the past, because
someone will think that you your heart is still filled
by the past person.
Speaker 1 (12:38):
Yes, like you have to.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
Make sure that it's positive and they feel that you
are evolved and ready for something new and not a negative.
Especially they'll be thinking, if you're talking angry about men,
I'm going to be the next person you're talking angry
about her. I don't want you to treat me that way.
So you have to be careful what you're sharing. But
if you could say so much how I learned that's.
Speaker 1 (12:56):
Yeah, or about why something is just different, like oh,
at that job, we never got to go outside, and
at this new job that I have, this is interesting
that we're going outside. That's something that's a positive. That's
not saying a trashing. It's just a different dynamic that
might be something you are better suited to.
Speaker 2 (13:09):
Yeah, but you just don't want to compare because that
might all make someone feel insincture about them too, Like
you don't want to say good things about your ex
versus them, like oh my ex took me no, not that.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
But if you do the opposite, if you say that
that was no.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
But as long as it's compliment, like this is so nice,
like I so appreciate you being so verbal, or I
so appreciate you being the man with the plan and
maybe your reservations.
Speaker 1 (13:30):
I'm not used to being treated this way. I'm not
used to thoughtful. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. I think
you can say that stuff.
Speaker 2 (13:36):
COUCA is a positive. Yes, it compliments compliment.
Speaker 1 (13:39):
Yeah, that's the thing that's when it comes up. Wow,
this is really nice because I'm at you. That's great,
that's very helpful. And also, every single person makes the
ex the villain, and there's always somebody on the other
side of it no matter what it is, and you're
never going to know the truth. It's like a divorce.
There's a thousand divorces. So it's just not worth it
for anybody to do it. It's not worth it for
you to talk about how insane your ex was because
most people aren' going to believe because everybody's at a
(14:01):
table talking about how and staying their X was.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
Absolutely and I think that you will be a breathly
fresh air if you don't villainize your ex.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
Especially someone like me, because I've had a very serious divorce.
But and I still I'm just like, it took a minute,
it was a long it was a you know, it
was not it was challenging, but I have my beautiful
do you know we've said this.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
So there was a time and a place to tell
people and unpack the things that you lived through and
that you had to go through. I think that absolutely
I'm not saying she, but I think until someone understands
the context of like you, I think that you shouldn't
share it until it doesn't have to be a certain
amount of dates or anything like that. But I mean,
I would say at least the two or three dates
(14:39):
ear build on your relationship together, versus focusing so much
on anything negative oversharing a negative in general, negative anything
about your family, your friends, your career, anything that you're
not happy with. This is not a therapy session. This
is not the place. It's just gonna lead to it'za
gona lead to a second date?
Speaker 1 (15:10):
And how do you navigate and advise navigating quote unquote dating,
like meaning when someone says I'm dating someone, so because
there's meeting people, I went on a date, I liked him,
I went out the next time. I don't think it's it.
You know, that's like that's that's not really that's you're
dating overall as like a sport and you're meeting different people,
but nothing is really landed. But then you're like regularly
(15:34):
dating one person, and like there's always like a sniffing
out of like when do you have to like when
do you feel like you're lacking integrity in that practice
because there's sex involved, there's intimacy involve there's a time
when and that's also not a silent contract, meaning you
could sleep with seven people at the same time on
seven different nights. It's your own body and your own choice.
(15:54):
You don't have to disclose that unless someone asks, and
then you're gonna be honest. You're allowed to do what
you want. So what is people are on the Bachelor
and they're sleeping with multiple people, and it's like, but
then how would they know who they liked more if
they don't sleep with the multiple people because they're in
a concentrated program. And I know that's not life, but
I'm just saying it makes sense that someone would want
(16:15):
to be doing more intimate things, not even including sex,
but like sometimes they're like they're meeting people's parents, they're
doing more like these things are very personal. So how
do you navigate the between just meeting people and going
out to dinner and then that no man's land between
that and relationship?
Speaker 2 (16:31):
I mean, I do think part of the secret sauce
is staying in your own power, in your own confidence
that like you know you're worth and leading with your
charm and your charisma of why they even like you,
and not even having to in your head or rebally
even have to put a label on it and just
continue to have fun. That's how you're going to catch someone.
(16:51):
But what if they don't want that from you. There's
two people in it, right, But then eventually, if you
have paid attention, are you just booty call girl? Are
you not? Have you not advanced where you're meeting each
other's friends and families like you have to pay attention
collectively to all the cues to see how you're fitting
into someone's wife.
Speaker 1 (17:08):
Oh so it doesn't have to be said. It's it's
more actions and words. It's actions, and I think it's actions.
I don't think you need to have the conversation. I
mean for some they.
Speaker 2 (17:17):
Do say like, hey, just so you know, what are
we I'm choosing to have sex with you? But I
just say, you know, I'm not comfortable having sex with
anybody else. I'm not suggesting me to talk about what
this is, but to me, I'm wanting to get to
know you and I'm always choosing this. So like you could,
you could have conversations about it, whether it's before or after,
(17:37):
that could help frame it.
Speaker 1 (17:39):
And I think that's weird because I think someone's not
gonna know how connect there to someone until they have
sex and you're saying that and it puts the silent
contract on the sex.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
Yeah. Yeah, but I think afterwards you could say not
right away, but at some point discuss it.
Speaker 1 (17:51):
Oh, once you've been intimate and you feel connected, Yeah, like, hey,
you're going to start sleeping with them regularly and you're
going to be like, I'm not doing this with five
other people.
Speaker 2 (17:59):
But I do think it's more about like knowing your
own boundaries, knowing what you need, and instead of just
having the labels of the talks, just leading with actions
and then making sure that you're in time, sharing what
your needs are because they're.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
Not, and what you can handle. You could have an
intellectual idea of what you're going to do, but what
can you it's on a movie, what can you actually handle.
You might be able to sleep before guys. At the
same time, you might be able to not sleep with
one without you know, getting a ring.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
Well. The other thing is like be careful what you
ask for, because like, what if you don't want to
be in a full fledged committee, excuse a relationship with
one person just because you don't even know them. So
you want to be sure that you're taking your own
time to get to know them. Again, you are the
one selecting. It's not just about being chosen. That's great
that he has great taste and wants to be with you,
but maybe you haven't decided of one hundred percent you're
(18:49):
ready for that. So it's like, hey, I am with you.
Take this as a compliment. I love our time together
and I'm so excited to get to know you. But
it doesn't have to be defined because it might backfire
you and then your relationship and then you're not getting
to know other people either until you know that it's
your person. So I think it's but I think it
also to celebrate, like, oh my gosh, I met someone,
Like that's such an exciting thing. Sometimes people race and
(19:11):
they're like then they start getting insecure about well, I
don't know. He hasn't asked me. If I don't know
you're boyfriend, girlfriend, I don't know where we stand. And
it's like, okay, you can just keep looking for it's
the action, mind everything, and just enjoy the season. It's like,
you don't have to know. Maybe the more you even
to know him, you'll realize, oh, I don't like what
we're not combatible for each other.
Speaker 1 (19:32):
Also, that's what you just said. Is part of the
thing that happens in the future with the woman waiting
around for the man, is that I see a lot
like the girls waiting around and hanging on every word
and everything that is or isn't happening because they don't
have purpose and you don't have enough going on, and
you really have got to be busy, bitch, Like you've
got to be busy because you're getting your own head
(19:54):
and you it's it's it's great to be like to
have something that you have to be at that you
have to and you're not just hanging on what they're doing,
and why are they dictating what's happening? Like why can't
you just be in your own two shoes, like being
like I don't need to know from you what I am.
You're not gonna give me the green light?
Speaker 2 (20:13):
Absolutely, And it's also your overthinking, like your beautiful brain
is now going to places and creating plots and you
know the scene that never even happened, and that's where
your friends flement in a crowd source and start telling
you all this like done.
Speaker 1 (20:26):
Thiss, oh yeah he should have done this, you should
know this. Yeah, exactly, by the way, great.
Speaker 2 (20:31):
And then you're completely disjoining your own relationship with your
own happiness. It's like, doesn't have to be that way?
Speaker 1 (20:36):
Yes, amazing, Okay, Well I recommend to everybody to have
somebody that they can talk to, but make sure that
like a therapist or someone else has validated that they're
giving good advice. Like I literally have listened to things
that you have said and the other girls on here,
and my own therapist has said, I actually think that
she's giving great advice, meaning you can't listen to everybody.
And I've actually talked to my therapist about one woman
(20:58):
that I work with who we joke my chief Dating
Advice or my CDA, and she has validated she's like
that she's giving good advice. Like you don't want to
just go half cocked. And every girl who's willing to
listen to you when you're drunk is going to, like,
you know, tell you what you want to hear. You
could be really it's going to a shitty doctor.
Speaker 2 (21:14):
You know. It's also it's so dangerous because they could
either they're not informed, or there could be jealousy. There's
could be so many things that play. But if people
are giving like angry advice.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
Yes, it could be also what's going on in their
own life too negative, jealousy you cannot.
Speaker 2 (21:28):
Yeah that they feel, say, I, you just can't go there.
Speaker 1 (21:31):
Misery wants company, you're too nosy of Other things don't
really matter, like what do you get you for your birthday?
Speaker 2 (21:37):
And like where did you go for dinner? It's like
that's not relevant to like probably makes you feel and
what you need. That's just like that is just fishing
for things that are putting to the aufster what to
(22:05):
do to the upst
Host
Bethenny Frankel
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