A Conversation with NeNe Leakes (Part Two)

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
The closet, that scene in the closet that was so
famous and again, and I think I wrote about it,
I kind of understood. I know that there was like
you chose violence or someone chose violence. I kind of
understood you being pissed off if someone was in your
closet and what else is going on? Which is always
the thing about reality TV. You come into a scene,
you haven't slept, you're upset, something else happened. All they're

(00:34):
doing is crystallizing this scene is if oh, you're at
a lunch, Why would you act that way at a lunch?
But a lot of other things are going on. So
that scene was very like pivotal on the show. It
was like a big thing.

Speaker 2 (00:46):
I don't know why it was such a big thing.
This is what I let me tell you about that day.
So the day before my husband was admitted to the
hospital with cancer. I said to the producers, I don't
think I should, you know, shoot this scene. Were doing
what we call a biwig party, meaning everybody must take
out of their wigs and their extensions and come with

(01:06):
your own natural hair.

Speaker 3 (01:07):
So that was the party I was throwing.

Speaker 2 (01:09):
Yep, And my husband just got admitted to the hospital.
We were really down about Greg going to the hospital.
He had cancer. They just told us that he has cancer.
He'd been going back. Yeah, he had been going back
and forth and we didn't know what he had, right,
so they admitted him. I told production, I don't think

(01:29):
I should have this party. Well, they were gun home
having the party because it was an all cast scene
and they already planned for all the girls to be
at my house with this particular scene, right, And so
I was like, I don't think this is a good thing.
They said, do it. I called Greg. I wanted to
know how he felt I want to have. Can I
go ahead and do this thing? Because they're really pushing
me to do it? He said, fine, do it. I said,

(01:51):
you know, we all have a producer that's assigned to us, right,
And I say to my producer, listen, you guys can film.
I just don't want anybody to go into my closet.

Speaker 1 (02:01):
Right.

Speaker 2 (02:01):
They promised me no one would go into my closet.
And I'm telling you they.

Speaker 1 (02:07):
Because you said it, Because you said don't touch like
to a little kid, don't touch that cookie.

Speaker 2 (02:12):
They told those girls to do it, and they were
telling them to do it at a time when they
also knew that I was at my lowest at that point.
They knew that Greg was in the hospital with cancer,
and they knew that. Honestly, we probably shouldn't have done
that all cast scene at my house. My husband is
in the hospital with freaking casts and dying, Like, why
are we still doing this scene? Who doesn't care about

(02:33):
how I'm feeling right now. The craziest thing is, after
that whole scene happened, I get a call. Do you
think you want to take a couple of days off? Nah, bitch,
I should have took a couple of days off before
the scene, not mesage.

Speaker 3 (02:44):
Yeah. Yeah, but it wasn't as bad as it looked.

Speaker 2 (02:46):
I think they tried to make it look bad, but
it wasn't that bad. So the guy who at the
camera's a big ass guy, right, and I grabbed his
T shirt. But the way they put it out to
the world was made it look if I did something
to him, like if I beat him or hit him.
I never hit anybody ever since I've been on the
show as a housewife, from day one to this.

Speaker 3 (03:08):
Day, I never hit anyone.

Speaker 2 (03:10):
It was all of these reports about she hit the
camera guy and then there were reports about she fought Kim.

Speaker 3 (03:17):
Okay, where.

Speaker 2 (03:20):
Roll the footage, please, they don't have it.

Speaker 1 (03:23):
It was in that van that they were saying it right.
It was like you guys were going. You were in
some van going somewhere. I remember, but I can't. Yeah,
the only physical thing I can ever remember was the
weave pull on the street.

Speaker 3 (03:33):
And that wasn't me.

Speaker 1 (03:34):
No, I know.

Speaker 2 (03:34):
I always that it was Sharai and Kim, but people
always said it was me. Really, people will always say
you pulled to Kim's wig? You did, I said. I
never had a physical altercation on the show.

Speaker 3 (03:44):
Now.

Speaker 2 (03:45):
The other thing is I felt like it was so
blown out of proportion with the camera guy when there
was so many This is where I think that we
get different treatment, and we get there's just a difference
in how we're treated because there's so many girls that
are doing things. You had Teresa flipping a table, you
Hadtersa pushing Andy down, you had girls busting glasses. You

(04:09):
got people doing all kinds of stuff, but me grabbing
the camera guy's shirt. Every they act as if it
was so freaking major. Do you know this guy never
said one thing? The camera guy.

Speaker 1 (04:22):
To this day to this day like he had. He
wasn't big of a deal to and he would have,
by the way.

Speaker 3 (04:27):
He didn't even care. He was over there laughing, he
didn't care about it.

Speaker 2 (04:31):
Everybody was talking about it like I had really done something,
and I was like.

Speaker 3 (04:36):
This is crazy. They elevate.

Speaker 2 (04:38):
I personally think when the brown girls do something, it
is much more elevated than when you nice vanilla looking
girls are doing something. You know, I don't feel like
it's the same. They're those to me, those girls are
over there pulling each other's wigs, are bursting glasses, pushing

(04:59):
each other, like we don't push each other.

Speaker 1 (05:03):
Certainly, you're saying it's tight, and it is so when
you read all of that, which you've read a million things.
But when you're reading all that, how do you receive it?
How are you in dealing with the bad press? And
like when you're going do you take? I feel like
you take the bait. I feel like you comment a lot,
and I feel like you talk a lot of times.
I hear you, like talking about like some other girl
that was on the show with you, and I'm like,
why is she talking about the person just giving that

(05:23):
person air? Why didn't bother like responding to it like
you're trying to kill every bug in Manhattan. Sometimes I
think in.

Speaker 2 (05:28):
The beginning, you kind of respond because you don't know
what else to do. And then as time goes on
and seasons roll by, your skin gets thicker and thicker,
and you learn to a girl, I'm not responding to that.

Speaker 3 (05:45):
I'm only helping you.

Speaker 2 (05:46):
I wish I would respond to that, or I might
respond to this. I think you get more strategic on
when to respond and when not to respond. And besides,
my skin is very thick, so you know.

Speaker 1 (05:57):
No. But like if you're you're on Carlos King, I
forgot it was. But he's asking you about specific people,
and you're talking about those specific people, and you know
they're gonna come back, and you're gonna live three more
weeks of pressed when they say the thing back to you,
and you just sometimes I think you like it, or
sometimes just like fuck it, I'm gonna slap somebody.

Speaker 3 (06:11):
But that's again, that's me keeping it one hundred.

Speaker 1 (06:13):
That's what I was gonna say. That was keeping you
one hundred. Yeah, that's how you hear asked the question
you're answering. That's what I think too. Yeah, I got it,
I got it.

Speaker 2 (06:19):
But I don't think that people want to see nanny
leaks in an interview not being mean.

Speaker 1 (06:26):
Yeah, being no, But you can answer it without fully
going all the way in and you go, you go
like you know, like I think she's boring, Like you'll
say that, well back then.

Speaker 3 (06:36):
Now I don't got it.

Speaker 2 (06:37):
Now I think I say she's lukewarm or something else
instead of like you keep boring, right, yeah, because.

Speaker 3 (06:46):
It's it's it's crazy. I feel like they hear me,
and and sometimes I don't know they hear me. They
hear me.

Speaker 2 (06:56):
Wait, what do you mean when whenever I say something,
I feel like I'm I'm so hurt. But in certain situations, yeah,
like if I'm talking about the girls, then I'm so heard.

Speaker 1 (07:06):
Like no, I don't understand what you're saying. Like if
I said, like you you want to send the message
to them, you're saying.

Speaker 2 (07:12):
If I say somebody is boring, I feel like everybody
here that I.

Speaker 3 (07:15):
Just said that.

Speaker 2 (07:16):
Of course, but that's what the sayings that are more
important than they don't hear it.

Speaker 1 (07:21):
Of course, because that's what they're looking for. It's like
you're looking for looking for a horoscope that applies to you. Yeah,
you know what I mean. And so when you say
and I get it because you say something and you're
giving it oxygen and then they're going to say it back,
and then you're back on the housewise without being paid
to be back on the housewives. So I think about
that with you. But I also recognize once in a
while you want to slap somebody like I. I. You know,
once in a while you want to you know.

Speaker 3 (07:42):
I am. I'm really okay with all the girls.

Speaker 2 (07:46):
So you have a good relationship with the girls. I
wouldn't say good relationship. I don't have any It's clean. Yeah,
I don't have any beef.

Speaker 1 (07:54):
Isn't it funny? No? If you watch, I watch.

Speaker 3 (07:56):
But I feel like they still have beef with me.
Is weird?

Speaker 1 (07:59):
Yes, But I I think that with housewives it's like
a silent tennis match. You watch them hit a ball
through the press and say something bad about you, But
the next time, if you say something nice about them,
you watch them hit back a softer ball like yeah,
you watch the ball moving around cross franchises. I see
a housewife from Marrange County saying something about me someone
like you watch everybody subtly fucking each other in the

(08:22):
whole France. I mean, let's be honest, it's a constant fucking.
It's it's the most competitive space you can imagine it is.
I mean, is there any city that's not completely cut
throat and completely competitive and completely jealous any of them? No? Right,
Like it's designed that way though, exactly with the money. Yeah,
the glam who gets invited on the trips, who's in

(08:42):
the center holding the piece of fruit, whatever it is,
So there's no let's just not let's call it what
it is. It's a very very it's it's the Hunger Games. Yeah,
so every time it's very designed, and every woman is
in there to end and they're fighting for one person.
They could pretend they're fighting for other people, but they're
fighting for them. Everybody gives Kyle the queen title that

(09:03):
they're doing that because they're kissing the ring and they
don't want to be hated. And the next season it
flips upside down and yeah, it's it's the whole thing
that is very atlantic. That's you know, right, it's just
like give and take and she's my best friend and
then I hate her, and it's just what that is
and that's not that's not real in real life. You
can have good relationships with women in real life. And okay,

(09:26):
so now there's all this. So first of all, you're acting.
You're on Glee, You're like a real actress, and this
is happening off season when you're off the Housewives, like
you're still doing Household.

Speaker 2 (09:35):
You're also realize on Glee, New Normal, Broadway, Sinderella, Chicago.

Speaker 1 (09:43):
Like, give a real career, a real acting career.

Speaker 3 (09:45):
I had a residency in Vegas Zumanity.

Speaker 1 (09:48):
Yeah, And were you making good money acting like you
felt like it was a real career.

Speaker 2 (09:54):
Yeah, I felt like it was okay money. I don't
feel like it was.

Speaker 1 (09:58):
But was it in your mind? Were you like planning
to sort of exit Housewives and be an actress like
you could that was gonna be your full career Like
I was.

Speaker 3 (10:05):
Hoping that's what I was going to do. But it
didn't work.

Speaker 1 (10:09):
Out like that. But you were on a path to that, right,
I thought. I was Okay, didn't you get your own show?
Someone working with you said you had your own show?
Weren't you given a show or you were on a series?

Speaker 2 (10:18):
I was only I had my own show as far
as my wedding, like you you know wedding.

Speaker 1 (10:22):
No, but you were on Gleam. Were you not on
another series?

Speaker 3 (10:24):
Or is that a New Normal?

Speaker 1 (10:26):
Oh? New Normal was like a real good part. Also, yeah, okay,
that's what I remember. You were on New Normal. Okay,
and you leave the Housewives, but you were first a friend.
So how was told to me? Was that like a
friend of the show, you were going to be on
seven to ten a peer?

Speaker 3 (10:41):
I was told I was always a housewife.

Speaker 1 (10:43):
Okay. I was told the reason you left was because
you were negotiating. They were only going to give you
a certain number, but it was for a big number
of money, like what I was getting paid when I
came back, like a big per episode, and you didn't
want that, so you walked.

Speaker 3 (10:56):
You mean in the end, towards.

Speaker 1 (10:57):
The end, That's what I was told, something to that effect. Yeah,
in the end, when you were.

Speaker 3 (11:02):
Giving that I was gonna be given a big sum
of money.

Speaker 1 (11:05):
No, in the end, when you were leaving, they were
willing to you were you were battling about money, and
then they agreed that they would give you a certain
like finite number of episodes. I forget if it was
seven to ten, a finite number, but for a good
paycheck each one, so it was still gonna be a
lot of money. And you said, fuck that, I'm not
doing that.

Speaker 4 (11:24):
No.

Speaker 2 (11:25):
I was given less and less and less episodes every season,
and when I decided to leave, I think it was
down to six episodes.

Speaker 1 (11:37):
You were given six guaranteed episodes, yes, and you decided
to leave, And why do you think you were given
less episodes? And what was your thought in deciding to leave?
Like what was that whole chapter about? Because I was
just watching it from the outside.

Speaker 3 (11:52):
My thoughts in leaving were okay.

Speaker 2 (11:56):
It felt like I was being phased out. I didn't
underst stand why I was given less and less episodes,
and I was asking why am I given less and
less and less every season and everyone else is getting more?
And I was constantly being told by the executives in
the offices that I was unhappy.

Speaker 3 (12:18):
And I don't know how you tell a person they're unhappy.

Speaker 1 (12:22):
Like you were reading unhappy on the show. I guess
they were.

Speaker 3 (12:25):
Saying, I guess. I don't think.

Speaker 1 (12:28):
I think it was the audience turning on you.

Speaker 2 (12:31):
I don't feel like the audience was I feel like
the audience have always loved to hate me.

Speaker 3 (12:37):
I think they've always had.

Speaker 1 (12:38):
A love, yeah, and love and hate relationship with me.

Speaker 3 (12:42):
Both both we love her, hat her, we love her.
We ha we love her? You know kind of like that.

Speaker 1 (12:46):
So you felt like you were getting demoted and iced
out of something that you started.

Speaker 2 (12:50):
Uh, of course? And again I go back to why
And I'm an original, the only original house life on
the show, and all the other original housewives on their
shows all white women, and they're all given full episodes,
and I'm the only black original on my show and

(13:10):
I was given less. I'm given six, they're all given eighteen.
Why And the only answer you can give me is
you to tell me that I am unhappy?

Speaker 3 (13:19):
How do you know I'm unhappy? Are you inside of
my body? Well?

Speaker 1 (13:23):
How can you negotiate with them when they're demoting you
and you were trying to get a certain amount of
money but they have all the leverage? Like what was
that whole experience? Like, like what do you what's going on.

Speaker 2 (13:35):
The experience of when I got the call to say.

Speaker 1 (13:40):
What season was that? Like three seasons ago, like thirteen
or something somewhere I forget like.

Speaker 2 (13:46):
Thirteen I think, well, okay, okay, well I feel like
this was a very important time in black lives. It
was Black Lives Matter movement. I'm an original housewife. I
should be there. This is an important time. And I
was basically told, flat out told, we need you to sit.

Speaker 3 (14:08):
Out this season, is what I was told.

Speaker 1 (14:11):
But that's like what they did with Derinda with a pause.
She was drinking a lot this season before she seemed
I guess, very angry, and she was unhinged, and so
they like give her a pause. There are these arbitrary
decisions that are like you're now a friend, you're off,
then you come back in like it's very you know,
it's the realm. The head of the realm, oz And
I guess oz is Andy and Bravo are moving all

(14:34):
the pieces around in the franchise and deciding that Ramon
is now a friend, Luand's a friend. But you get
to come back in Phedra. You did something terrible and
said that you that Candy was I need to see
what that was. Oh no, no, no, I'm saying, but
that's how I'm seeing that. Like they're moving all these
pieces on the chessboard, so right now you're a chess
piece and you're being moved out. It's your turn to

(14:55):
sit out this round. So so you said, no, I'm
not coming back at all. I'm done. I'm out.

Speaker 2 (15:03):
The final decision came. I said I was gonna take
the six episodes, is what I said. In the end,
I said, I'm going to go ahead and take it.

Speaker 3 (15:11):
Right.

Speaker 1 (15:12):
Was that because of finances? Was? What was that reason?

Speaker 2 (15:15):
Not for finances, I don't think it's at that time. No,
it was because my team was saying do it. My
husband was saying, you know, you know you're great. When
you get on the show, You're six episode will probably
turn into ten or fifteen.

Speaker 3 (15:30):
Because you know you're great. You're gonna be great, You're
gonna be fine.

Speaker 1 (15:32):
But that in build, I must feel very sad for you,
like started it and you're like Sneeny leaks and you're
very popular and it loves you, and now you're being
demoted and like you're in the I wanna think.

Speaker 2 (15:43):
I didn't understand why it was happening. And in the end,
the reason I made the decision that I don't, I'm
not gonna be able to take these six episodes. It
was during the Black Lives Matter movement. I got on
the phone with the executives and they wanted me to
come for Candy is what they said. They wanted me

(16:03):
to We want you.

Speaker 3 (16:04):
To get Candy.

Speaker 1 (16:07):
And what does that mean?

Speaker 3 (16:08):
Get her?

Speaker 1 (16:09):
I mean, but what was their reasoning and what did
they have on her?

Speaker 3 (16:12):
I think we had.

Speaker 2 (16:16):
Maybe some issues maybe the season prior to and they
wanted me to make sure that I confront her and
I addressed her and all that stuff, and I said, no,
I really don't want to do that. This is Black
lives matter, and I don't want to do that. And
I didn't do it. I felt like it was black
lives matter. I should have been there. They were trying
to push me out of time that was very important

(16:37):
in the black culture. And also they wanted me to appear.
If I appeared that season, they needed me to argue
with Candy, and that was not something I wanted to do.

Speaker 1 (16:47):
So you made the decision to leave the show. And
how long after that did you I don't know the story.
I guess you sued them, you sent them papers. What
happened after that? What were you doing? Were you still acting? Like?
What was that moment You're off the show? What are
you doing now, there was a lot going on. It

(17:08):
was during the pandemic. Right during the pandemic, there was
a lot going on. I was trying to have conversations
like with the executives or I wanted to talk through
like why was this happening? Why did all these things
happen to me?

Speaker 2 (17:21):
There were a lot of things happening that you just
don't know about. But like racism, you're talking about because
there was a lot of things happening to me, unfair treatment.
Well no, I just mean that it was a lot
of unfair treatment happening to me at.

Speaker 1 (17:37):
That time or during your own history that you were reflecting.

Speaker 2 (17:40):
During a period of years things were happening. For instance, Okay,
let me give you an example. We are cast of
black women and we have a white woman on our show.
She doesn't travel, we travel, she doesn't shoot, we shoot.

Speaker 3 (17:59):
So there was there's a lot of different treatment happening
on the show.

Speaker 2 (18:03):
And I was more of the outspoken one, the one
that was in the front, like me and the girls
would talk about it and then we would say, you know,
it's unfair that Kim doesn't have to take any cast trips,
Like none of us want to take cast trips.

Speaker 3 (18:15):
Right, and she wasn't taking cast trips.

Speaker 1 (18:17):
No.

Speaker 2 (18:19):
The only trip Kim took that I can remember is
to Miami. Our cast went to Miami, and she went
on that trip. In fact, when Kim walks off of
the show, we're all sitting there talking to her about
why didn't you You gave us these dates to go
on these cast trips. You said you would be available,
and you're not available. Kim did not go on cast trips,

(18:41):
only the Black girls. I felt that over the years
that I was treated differently than.

Speaker 1 (18:52):
That's right, right, okay? And what did they say to that, Like,
what was the response?

Speaker 3 (18:58):
I don't know their response.

Speaker 2 (18:59):
Because I've worked with this company for a very long time.

Speaker 3 (19:04):
I had issues.

Speaker 2 (19:05):
You would think that someone there would have said, let's
pick up the phone and talk to her and see
what's happening. They never picked up the phone. Oh, let's
discuss why I ever wanted to speak to me.

Speaker 1 (19:17):
To this day, you haven't spoken to anyone about You
haven't spoken to you haven't spoken to Andy or anyone
about So when's the last time you spoke to Andy
or someone from Bravo. This feels like this was a
long this was in the last three years. You're saying
this whole thing because.

Speaker 3 (19:30):
It feels like and probably was three years.

Speaker 1 (19:33):
So three years ago, you leave the show, you file
an action that's still going on. It's a case or
what is it called.

Speaker 3 (19:40):
This is a complaint.

Speaker 1 (19:41):
You have a complaint and it's still going on. And
I've heard that it's back and forth, and it felt
it feels like it was abrupt, like you leave and
then when does this all come? And then they would
say or someone would say, why didn't you file it earlier?
Like are you a disgruntled employee? That type of thing.

Speaker 2 (19:57):
So no, I'm not a disgruntle employee because I was
bringing my complaints all all the time. Oh it wasn't
like I just decided, oh, I'm leaving and now I'm
going to complain about all these things I was, which
is why I believe I was given less and less
episodes because I made complaints a lot over the years.

(20:18):
If there was something that did not look right or
sound right to me, I would bring it up right.

Speaker 1 (20:23):
And so let's just get this clear. So you're because
I want this so you because it was backwards, So
basically for years, you're complaining about things that just on
the day to day don't seem correct, right, and then
you start to get demoted, yes, and you feel like
it's personal and you feel like it's related.

Speaker 3 (20:42):
It's personal.

Speaker 1 (20:42):
Yeah, that's different, Okay, so that's where you're So.

Speaker 2 (20:46):
I feel like I was on the front line. And
when I say, I was on the front line.

Speaker 1 (20:50):
But you also always kept it one hundred.

Speaker 3 (20:52):
I was like, right, I am like.

Speaker 2 (20:54):
I felt like the leader for the girls, so they
will all get together. For years, we were all on
the same text message. We had a housewife Georgia.

Speaker 1 (21:02):
Peach text message without Kim.

Speaker 2 (21:05):
Without Kim okay, and everybody would come in in the thing,
and I felt like, Okay, if this is an issue,
I'll be the one to call and tell them. And
I would always be the one to call and tell them,
and thinking me, I'm just thinking, the girls are gonna
support me when I make these complaints for them, But

(21:26):
there were times when they didn't support me. But you
guys know you made the complaints. I mean, like I
had your text messages.

Speaker 1 (21:32):
Have they validated any of your feelings, your experience, or
any of us or have they just in text messages
they have they have, so I remember, I think you
were there. I think that the Housewives franchise went from
the Old Guard to the New Guard and changed. For me,
it was the Andy Cohen baby shower. And it's gonna

(21:54):
sound crazy, but I was invited by Kyle and Okyle
hosted it. Maybe was it you? And two girls did
it with her? Yeah, me and Kyle and one other girl,
VICKI something like, okay, so.

Speaker 3 (22:06):
I'll pay like five grand or something.

Speaker 1 (22:08):
So yes, he is show exactly. So Kyle invites me
and which is very nice, and I'm in La and
I'm doing an appearance. But I could have made it,
and I didn't want to go because my feeling was
that it was going to be like a dog and
pony show, everybody trying to kiss the ring and trying
to like, you know, Andy's the Dawn, Andy's the Charlie

(22:29):
and all the angels are going to come in. And
what I really did hear from the feedback and what
I saw from the media that it was like the
old Girl, the older girls, the originals were like there
and sort of part of it, but they were a
little older. They were like seniors and the new girl
all you know, they were like seniors, and the new

(22:50):
girls were all sort of like in the background, wanting
to be at the cool table, the cafeteria table, and
Beverly Hills was now wasn't the peach, and it wasn't
the apple. Beverly Hills was now like the shining diamond,
and they were like up on the table getting all
the attention, get up and dance, and like he was.
They were the favorites then, and it just felt like
everybody was trying to get the most pressed, the most attention,

(23:11):
the most be Andy's favorite, And it kind of represented
the whole experience for me, which is like you're the
most popular if you get asked on watch what Happens Live,
or you sit in the seat, or you sit next
to Andy, or you sit there, and it feels like
the whole chessboard has always been sort of played and
operated to make us all think that about each other
and wonder it's like that one event represented the whole thing,

(23:34):
because no one needs a baby shower to be people
wasted for five days hungover dancing on table, Like but
do you see where I'm coming from at all? I
do understand what you saying, Like some girls feel like
they're the losers at the loser table, I mean, and
they want to get his attention and hopefully he'll notice them.
I mean, that's what it's.

Speaker 3 (23:51):
Like, Yeah myself, you know what I mean.

Speaker 1 (23:54):
So were you close with Andy? Do you consider him
to be a good friend of yours? No, you say
that now or you always do that.

Speaker 2 (24:06):
My good friends, I go to their house or I
visit their home at some point. So I never visited
his home, so I would have to say no. I
don't feel like we were good friends. I feel like
we were colleagues. Probably a little bit more than that,
because I could call him on his sale. I have
gone out with him out on the town, and I've

(24:29):
gone drinking with him, and I've partied with him, and so.

Speaker 3 (24:36):
Yeah, a little bit more than colleagues.

Speaker 1 (24:50):
But the whole way, you kind of knew where it stood,
you feel like from the beginning, because it's not right.

Speaker 2 (24:55):
I did not know where it stood.

Speaker 3 (24:59):
I not know.

Speaker 1 (25:00):
It's where did you think it stood? And where do
you think it stands?

Speaker 2 (25:03):
Up? I thought we had a good relationship. I thought
we had a good relationship.

Speaker 1 (25:12):
And why don't you think like he do you feel
like he has the power and he's in control of
the things that you were bringing to Bravo. Or he's
just a pawn in the whole machine, like what part
does he play? Or you can't play stupid and smart.
You can't be the boss and then play dumb, Like
where do you think he fits in the whole thing?

Speaker 3 (25:33):
He fits in at the top.

Speaker 1 (25:35):
He fits in at the top, and.

Speaker 3 (25:38):
He is.

Speaker 2 (25:40):
Like you said maybe, like I don't know. He's at
the top, and he is moving everybody around on the board.
It's almost like a a real game.

Speaker 1 (25:52):
It's like a real game. Yeah, And because there are
always questions who texts you the most, who do you
text the most? And there, and the thing is we're
all in the game because I remember one year I
was off the Housewives and then I went to his
house for his Christmas party and it was like all
these famous people there and I felt special. And then
you know, I'm sitting next to him at this reunion

(26:13):
and now I feel special. And it reminds me of
like probably you with your parents as your real parents
as a kid, and me with mine, like wanting you
want we all want his approval, we all want to
be the favorite, We want his approval. We want to
be able to say, oh, well, you even have said something.
I've been on that show the most about watch Rebam's life.
It's like a calling card. And so his.

Speaker 2 (26:36):
Staying why I was on there at most? Now, I
at that time I didn't totally get it one hundred,
But well.

Speaker 1 (26:44):
What do you mean you rated? Why do you think
you were on the most the help of the show
because you were rating? Yeah, you're reading, but why else
would you We have but that, But you're saying it
wasn't because you were friends. It's because you're You're a
piece on the board, and you're a valuable piece, very valuable, right,
That's what I'm saying. And so I think there was
there's a psychology that goes on with this group and

(27:05):
this show. And he's an executive. He used to be
an executive, and he's a producer, which is like a
power position, but then you're this sort of talent executive anymore.
He's not an executive for you. He used to be
an executive at Bravo, a development executive, and then like
a VP, and then because he was on the show,
as with his own show, he became talent. But still
is an executive producer of different shows. But that's still

(27:27):
in like a supervising position, and so it's tricky because
he's not quote unquote technically producing vander Pump rules, so
he can't be held accountable to the standard of producing
that reunion. But he's the person who's the talent saying
all these things to Raquel, but like under the shield
of like it's the show, like he's almost like a puppet,

(27:48):
like just reading these words. When he's a human being,
he knows what he's saying. But then over here he's
a producer that gets to choose who's on and who's off,
and it gets to be you can't play stupid and
smart like you're in a power position and you have
a lot of power were there because you report directly
to Francis, who makes all the decisions. So you can't write,
you know, and I, you know, people will wonder why
people like you and I would fuck this thing up,

(28:11):
would would would would bite the hand that feeds us,
would mess up the apple and peach cart, like even
me more than you, I wasn't getting demoted. I could
have gone back any time for millions of dollars, and I,
you know, mess and I fucking fucked up the whole
cart when I was. I mean, you thought I was
the favorite. I thought you were the favorite. We talked.
Let's talk about that, we talked about this. I thought

(28:31):
you said that you thought I was his favorite.

Speaker 2 (28:36):
Yes, I did think that you were his favorite at
some point. I don't know when that point actually became.
I thought you were his favorite, but at times it
didn't feel like it. Sorry, but then it looked like it,
But then sometimes it didn't feel like it.

Speaker 1 (28:55):
You meaning the public is thinking that I'm his favorite,
but the way he's speaking privately is not. Likewise, That's
what I'm saying. Likewise, And I know, I've known, and
I've known how he feels about different people at different times,
and I just I don't know. Again, it's back to
the reality reckoning, which we're now going to get into
for me. And of course I bit the hand that

(29:17):
fed me. And now it's so convenient that I'm talking
about this and all that. But I left. I left twice.
There's no confusion all the receipts. I left twice at
Top Dollar, and I didn't bring this whole thing up
because I wanted to do a show. I walked away
from my show, and you can. I have the receipts
for that too. I walked away from the show that
I was going to do because I didn't want to

(29:37):
get into business with that production company and I didn't
want to go into this sphere and I didn't want
it to be like Housewives, And there was no big
plan for the reality reckoning. I was just thinking about
the reunion and the strike and I thought, what the hell?
And one day I woke up and said to myself,
I go to Australia and no one told me that.
There's my entire body, just me on the back of
a bus. And I'm excited by that. But I shouldn't

(30:00):
be excited bout that because they're promoting a show on
Hey You Australia that Scott episodes in me from fifteen
years ago that I made two hundred and fifty hours
for a whole season. So in real time, I just
said something and it exploded it and it got a
lot of pickup, and then I started to think about
all of it. And the truth is I never burned
the house down because I thought maybe i'd go back

(30:21):
into the house like and I don't mean burn the
house down by a reckoning because I didn't even think
of it. I mean, I think this whole time, I
thought that Andy and I were kind of really friends
because we text back and forth, but we don't really
I've been to his house once for a Christmas party
ten years ago. We're not really every time we're together,
we're only talking about the housewives? Am I coming on?
Am I going off? Is that person getting fired? Is

(30:43):
that person coming on? Like? We're not really you know
what your real friends are like. So now I'm in
this hybrid world where I think we kind of really
don't like each other, but we're both playing this game,
and yet when things are happening for me, he's not
really congratulating me, and like, I feel like he has
some sort of resentment, you know, because I'm supposed to
be beneath him because we both came up at the

(31:04):
same time. He was just he was barely a host
and he was working at Bravo and we came up
at the same time. So I'm thinking, I don't think
he likes me at all. I think we've both been
playing this game for all this time, and one day
I decided to just not be afraid and open my
fucking mouth because the only person I was protecting and
that whole realm was him, and he hasn't been protecting me.

Speaker 4 (31:30):
Hello, Hello, Hello, Hello, here's me you're lookie for yes, girl, Hello,
that's like you've been sleep this whole time?

Speaker 3 (31:49):
Hello? Hello?

Speaker 1 (31:52):
Did I just like crack up in like a fucking pinata?
Just no?

Speaker 3 (31:56):
No no. I feel like, well, no, no, you didn't.

Speaker 2 (31:59):
You didn't go one was about eighty just now yeah,
And I think that Yeah, No, I think I think
that everybody that's in this position. I think at one
point you feel or you think like am I his favorite?

Speaker 4 (32:15):
Am I not?

Speaker 3 (32:16):
I kind of feel the same way you do. I
don't think he ever liked me.

Speaker 1 (32:20):
Like down deep inside you were playing the game. You
were both two people that it's a dance like I
got invited on Hey yay, and it's so funny and
every time you're there, it's like, oh my god, I
saw what you just did and brings it and everyone's excited.
But the last time I went on that show, I
was with my daughter and we're so used to that
environment being he's always protected. Somehow, he's asking these questions

(32:43):
like who's the ugliest housewife? And you're like, let me think,
like a question that bad, like who's the worst mother?
Like questions that are so problematic, asking Jill Zarren's mother, uh,
asking her is this good for the Jews or bad
for the Jews? Then mentioning Ron Jeremy like two ook' seventy,
like all these things that somehow he's like always protected

(33:04):
and we're always fucking skinned, alive with tabasco sauce all
over us, naked. Because I say the thing about the other,
who do you think is the bitchest housewife or most
dramatic Nini two weeks oppress, Bethany says Nan, he's the
most dramatic. You two weeks of press say Bethany's Bethany's
a bitch. Like we're out there and we get thrown

(33:25):
like pieces of meat to just get ripped apart by
that vehicle that we kissed the ass to get on
and get excited that we're on and we're there and
we're like, oh my god, yay, and we all play
the goddamn fucking game and we get decked out because
we're using him like he's using us because we want
to promote our shit and get dressed out and get
the whatever, but it all just seems so gross and
we're all such pawns because of the fame and the money.

(33:46):
And when I had enough money and enough fame and
nobody had anything that I wanted and I knew by
the last shred, I let it all hang out because
it was like, I'm not fucking going back and I'm
not doing this other show. I've been a I've been
hanging on. I've been there, and like I'm not doing it.

Speaker 2 (34:03):
Well, See, you're, first of all, you're in a position
where you can feel that way and say all those things.
That's one thing. Financially and skin color. There are things
that you can say that I can't say. There are
things that you can actually do on this show that
I can't do on this show.

Speaker 3 (34:23):
And that's just a fact.

Speaker 2 (34:25):
As you just said, Candy told you that you know,
everything that we do is sort of like elevated, and
it's the truth. Everything we do is much more elevated.
You can say all those things of whatever you want
to say to me, and I can't say the same.
My treatment is one hundred percent different on the show
than yours.

Speaker 1 (34:45):
Do you mean?

Speaker 3 (34:46):
On the Housewives? On The Housewives got it.

Speaker 1 (34:48):
But but now in a post housewives world, you chose
to leave, and you know that all these other housewives
have gotten asked back, they've come back, they've come in,
they've come out. You chose to leave.

Speaker 3 (35:00):
I chose to leave for a lot of reasons.

Speaker 1 (35:02):
Okay, because I want to And then you chose to
burn the house down. And I'll explain when I to
try to work.

Speaker 3 (35:08):
Think I burned the house down? Did I burn it down?

Speaker 1 (35:10):
Well, we'll talk about you burnt the bridge attached to
the house. Yeah, from between you and the house, there
was a bridge because because you took legal action. Okay,
So when I read in the headlines, I don't think
anyone knows your story, so I would like to hear it.

Speaker 2 (35:25):
Well, first I want to say this. I just wanted
to get your language so I can understand what you say.
You say you burned the house. That that means you
burn the bridge. That So when I think that you're
burning a bridge while you were there, When I think
that someone is burning a bridge, you're burning the bridge
because this person's done nice things for you and to you,

(35:46):
and then you just decide to burn the That's how I.

Speaker 1 (35:49):
No, that would be like not taking the olive branch.
I'm saying, whatever bridge, literal bridge, is a bridge between
them and you. And even if you don't like them,
even if you were discriminated against, you might want to
walk back on that fucking bridge and go back in, just.

Speaker 2 (36:01):
Like you might want to, but you also might not
want to be continuously abused. I didn't just just wake
up one day and just say I'm going to file
a complaint again. I felt like I worked there long enough,
and just as I respect them, I thought they respect
me and they would have wanted to come to a
table and sit and talk with me about the issues

(36:22):
to talk. When I say they, I mean the executives
who are in control on both sides, on the network
side and the productions.

Speaker 3 (36:27):
Okay, so there were issues.

Speaker 2 (36:29):
I never was the talent that just decided, oh this
is my last season, I have all these issues. No,
I had my issues and row emails and text message,
and I have receipts.

Speaker 3 (36:38):
I am black. We keep receipts. That's all we can do.

Speaker 2 (36:42):
Okay, So I have my receipts of my complaints and
the things I felt that should change. I asked, why
is this happening to me? I would like for this
to change. Can this not happen to me any longer?
Can I do this? I asked all those questions, okay,
and again I always felt like if I did one

(37:02):
little thing, it was elevated. Yet all the white house wise,
you white girls can do anything, and it was never
You guys never got the same treatment. You just don't
get the same treatment. Now, you guys might complain, you
might walk off the show. If I walk off the show,
it's the whole world has blown off.

Speaker 3 (37:22):
She walked off the show.

Speaker 2 (37:23):
When you got white girls walking off the show, running
off the show, crime, flipping tables, pulling hair, blessing glasses,
cursing people out, all kinds of stuff.

Speaker 3 (37:32):
And if I just do one little thing, my treatment
is totally different.

Speaker 1 (37:36):
Interesting, And you mean from the show or the court
of public opinion, because they can't control it from the
show and the quarter like they're not protecting you. Something happens,
and the press you, but they don't protake me. So
we're in this gray area where it's not an actual workplace.
And the reason that you don't get real answers is
because in a normal if you were working in a
normal company and Jane down the hall drank eight bottles

(37:59):
of vodka. Uh, the HR would be called. And if
if if you were in a normal workplace and someone
treated you a certain way and you file the complaint,
HR would be called. But there is no real HR
because it's not really a workplace. But we have to
show up on time and we have to work. So
we're in this purgatory gray area where nothing's real. And
now that's what the reckoning is really about, because people

(38:20):
have to be accountable, right so okay, So so now
so you leave, you file the complaint and that's when.
And that's where I want to come into. I don't
know exactly what it's said. What is it that you wanted?

Speaker 3 (38:32):
There's a lot of things that I won't say.

Speaker 1 (38:33):
I'll hear, okay, or what you want because you're still
in it, you're still in it.

Speaker 2 (38:38):
I want fair treatment. I want to be treated equal.

Speaker 1 (38:43):
But how can you be treated equal now when you're
not working with them? Like? What would you do? What
do you want? What? What could be done now?

Speaker 3 (38:49):
Now? No, because I wasn't getting fair treatment.

Speaker 1 (38:52):
You want to men for not getting fair and I
was not treated okay? And do you how do you
feel about the way it's going to go down. Do
you think you're going to get what you want?

Speaker 3 (39:02):
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (39:03):
Do you feel stronger in this reckoning? I don't want anything,
but if it were you, you would get what you want. Okay,
you probably would not have even had to file a complaint. Interesting,
they probably would have come and sat and talked with you.
If you were just asking to talk and let's figure
this out. Let's work this out. They probably would have
sat and taught with you. Do you feel stronger since

(39:27):
the media has shifted recently, and since there's a wave,
and since since this reality reckoning? Do you feel a
little bit less alone?

Speaker 4 (39:39):
Hmmm?

Speaker 3 (39:40):
I still feel very long I'm gonna.

Speaker 1 (39:41):
Say so you've said to me. So now let's enter
into like Now, keep in mind, I'm only reading headlines.
I'm seeing clips. I don't know what's gone on from
my perspective. And also I was still friends with the network.
And my perspective is Nini's suing Bravo and the production
company for discrimination and other things. And that's kind of

(40:03):
what I heard. Like there was that you were suing
and you were public about it, and it was a big,
big thing. Okay, so's we don't speak that often. I'm
watching you on the media. I have no idea how
long later I reach out to you. But in my
own life, I am thinking, I've always thought that you're
very entertaining, and I think you and I would be
amazing together. So I have this idea. Paul and I

(40:24):
were always talking about ideas. It was Paul's idea to
have Jill on. He said you should have Jill to
talk about the New Housewives, and I said, oh god,
I just want to have a reunion with her. And
then that's how that happened. And so we were just
talking and I was like, he always was like, you
want to do something with Nani, And I said, I
think Nannie and I should do a show called Ebony
and Ivory where we get in an RV and go

(40:44):
across the country from each of our perspectives. I call
two production companies that had relationships with Bravo, cause again
I don't know that much about your case. I call
them because they've been wanting to do a bunch of
projects with me, and I never want to do anything,
but you know, I've reached out to you a million
times and they say, we can't and I even have
one of them call you. Remember I say, can you
call her? I was like, They're like, we can't. We

(41:05):
can't touch it. We can't touch it. We can't touch
it she's doing. I call an agency. We can't touch it.
And I call you. And and because you said to
me on the phone, every time you call me, nothing
ever happens. And I didn't want to. I didn't want
to hurt your feelings, but I said, the reason is
when I call you, it's because someone else told me
that it couldn't happen. Like I call you getting excited.

(41:26):
You say, I'm excited too. I then talk to someone
else and they shut it down because of the legal action.
That was my perspective. I don't know if it's true
not true, And I just reported it back to you.

Speaker 2 (41:37):
So since all of this have come forward with complaints
and things like that, I have been severely retaliated against.
And have you been retaliated against since you came out
with your reality reckoning?

Speaker 1 (41:50):
I mean, I believe so. I believe I've burned many bridges. Yeah,
I do not believe I would be doing anything with
Bravo and I haven't been.

Speaker 3 (41:56):
Well, that's fine if you don't. Yeah, you're not doing
anything with Bravo.

Speaker 2 (42:00):
But I don't feel like I should be retaliated against
to the point of me not being able to work
at all.

Speaker 1 (42:06):
Oh No, Also, I'm just in the beginning. Just know
that two different people in production, as I told you,
said to me, I can't work for you. I will
never work in TV again if I work for you.
And three house swaps No, three Bravo talent that have
been violated and will have a story to tell have
reached out to me wanting to talk and they've been blocked.

(42:27):
So I'm okay, I have you know, but I'm saying
there's an effect to my actions.

Speaker 3 (42:33):
WHOA for me, I've not been able to work at all,
But so.

Speaker 2 (42:37):
The moment arena of entertainment, any arena of entertainment, I
was not able to work from that point of me
closing my computer leaving the reunion, I don't I did
not work again until last year.

Speaker 1 (42:54):
What if it's that you are litigious because people don't
want if someone sued somebody personally, they don't want to
touch that. How could Bravo is not gonna call ABC
and say don't work with obviously called a b C
and E f G. But ABC doesn't listen to Bravo,
who's they have?

Speaker 2 (43:12):
And because there are listen. I'm a talent and I
am talented. I am not just a reality star. I
am an entertainer. Okay, I seen dance, act anti reality Okay.
I as a black woman, I have to be able
to do everything. At the end of the day, I
turned cart wheels and do flips like I do everything.

Speaker 3 (43:33):
There's no.

Speaker 2 (43:35):
I'm trying to tell you that they shut my work down.
I do everything. So you mean to tell me, as
a talented person that there was nothing for me to host.
There was nothing for me to to act in, singing, dancing,
jump in, clap in nothing, the same thing, same thing
I'm saying to you. There's there was they the doors

(43:58):
were closed, the doors were not open. And then, in fact,
a friend of mine told me Andy wrote a book
and he said the door was closed. So apparently when
he says the door has closed, the door is closed
all over the entire industry because I did not work.
Now that's a fact. Now we're talking about somebody that
is talented. I'm not holding it on anybody, but I'm

(44:20):
telling you that when it happened. I have been retaliated against.
Now you just don't go from working today and never
working again, like something happens, something.

Speaker 1 (44:32):
I agree I don't like.

Speaker 3 (44:34):
You can't just be like, okay, so you have.

Speaker 1 (44:37):
But your agents are the most powerful people in the
entertainment industry. What have they said? What is CIA say
to you when you say why am I not working?
Give me the fucking truth? What do they say?

Speaker 4 (44:46):
Nothing?

Speaker 3 (44:49):
Listen, I'm not crazy, neither.

Speaker 4 (44:53):
You.

Speaker 2 (44:53):
I'm trying to tell you that if you were working
today and suddenly all the doors just closed all across
the entire industry because you had a disagreement with maybe
this company that you're working for, But maybe you don't
have to work with that company anymore. There are so
many other companies out here to work for. There were
all kinds of narratives put out there, like I was

(45:14):
a difficult talent and all these things. I've never ever
worked on a set where I've been difficult. Ever I've
heard it. Now, there's a lot of sets that both
any set I work on, I come happy and I

(45:35):
don't need anything but my money and some water every
now and then. But let me tell you something, I
don't need anything. I come happy and I'm ready to work.
I'm a worker Bee, I liked you you. Yeah, I've
enjoying working. So I've never had an issue on any
set I've ever worked on. So it is not by
chance that I have a disagreement with this company and

(45:55):
every door across the industry decides to close, it is
something wrong with that. But you, Bethany or some of
your other the other girls, they can have an issue
with this company and they may not work with them
for a little while, but they always get to come
back and work.

Speaker 1 (46:11):
Well. Is a self generated this is mine.

Speaker 2 (46:15):
You're different at this point. But there's so many examples.
Let me just say when I let me just use
my closing the computer as an example. So I closed
the computer as an exam because we were doing our
reunion show.

Speaker 1 (46:28):
What does that mean? I closed the computer.

Speaker 2 (46:30):
We were doing our reunion show from home because of
CO so we were all on computer at the time.
I think we were the only franchise that did that.
And I closed my computer as in I walked off
of the reunion how long ago? Twenty nineteen four years ago? Okay,

(46:52):
So I closed my reunion and I walk off of
the I'm saying, I closed my computer and I walk
off of the show.

Speaker 3 (47:05):
The treatment is just different.

Speaker 2 (47:06):
Lisa, is it vander Lisa vander pomp on her show
she walked off?

Speaker 3 (47:12):
Did I mean she didn't even walk off. I don't
think she ever came.

Speaker 2 (47:14):
She never came to the reunion, and they are still
working with her today. Kim Zosiak walks off of our
entire show and walk right into her own reality show.
I just don't get I didn't get that same treatment
everything anything I was always retaliated against or something happened

(47:35):
to feel like, of course severely punished. What's happening to
me right now? With these doors closing everywhere, you would
think that I have drugged, raped, stabbed cut somebody. I mean,
I'm getting the treatment like I was freaking r Kelly
or Bill Cotton.

Speaker 3 (47:54):
Yes, there was a point.

Speaker 2 (47:56):
As of late, I have been getting little opportunity these
here and there. But the I did an endorsement deal
recently last season, I did a reality show, so I've
gotten little small things to come in. But this just
doesn't happen. It's almost like they're trying to send the message,

(48:19):
if you are being abused, you better not.

Speaker 3 (48:22):
Fucking speak up. So it's almost like this is why.

Speaker 2 (48:27):
The union is much needed, what you're fighting for, it's
much needed because if I'm being abused, I don't have
the right to say something. I can't come to you
and tell you that something's happening to me. And if
I do tell you something's happening to me, do that
means I don't ever get to work again. Why I'm

(48:47):
a woman, you're a woman. I'm a black woman. But
we feel the same, you know, we beleeve the same.
I have feelings. I'm not feeling less. I mean I
have feelings. I still have a family. You have a family.
You're able to feed your family and provide for them.
Why can't I feed and provide for mine? Because me
and this company disagree. I don't know what the hell

(49:08):
are we disagreeing on, but whatever I disagreements are, why
can't I just go on and work somewhere else? Why
do you need to put out a narrative like that
to make my life miserable? Why can't I feed my kids?
Why are all the white women able to do whatever
they do? You know, I'll give you an example. I
just thought of something I remember VICKI Gunsvelin saying that

(49:28):
she had an issue. I can't remember everything now. I
remember there was something. I think somebody pretended like they
had cancer. Maybe the girls were after them about that.
And then she ended up being like off the show.
And then I think she was supposed to be on
the first season of the new show that they do
called Girl's Trip, and she was mad with Andy and

(49:49):
Bravo about the contract they gave us. Something happened with
their falling out because she had fallen out with them,
and she spoke to an attorney. And I know that
for a fact because I was on the call when
she spoke to the attorney about them, thinking that she
wanted to file a lawsuit against them. I don't know
what happened. She went through this whole process with the attorney.
I don't know how far they gotten.

Speaker 3 (50:10):
I know that he.

Speaker 2 (50:11):
Probably had some calls with Bravo whatever. Vicky is back
on the show working. My situation is not the same.
I can talk to an attorney or have an issue,
which I did. My attorneys. We're talking to them in
the beginning, wanting to sit down and let's figure something out.
Let's work this out, whatever this issue is, and They
never wanted to sit down and talk to me about

(50:33):
anything my feelings were.

Speaker 3 (50:35):
They pretty much said, if that.

Speaker 2 (50:39):
The black bitch period, because they completely But all these
other people like Vicky who's talking to an attorney that
the world didn't know this, but we know this behind
the scenes. She was speaking to an attorney and was
upset with them about this cancer thing and some contract
for the girl's trip. But Vickie is back over there

(51:01):
working and everything is fine. Lisa van der Pump walk
off the show never returned. She still got band department.
She can still sit over there and talk to him
all day long if she want to. Teresa can go
to prison and stay for ten years, and they'll wait
till she get back and then the show will start again. Okay,
but the black girls do not get that same treatment.
I'm telling you right now. Our treatment is different.

Speaker 3 (51:24):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (51:24):
You guys go on fabulous trips. We ride on a
sprint of bus. That's just how it is. Our treatment
is different. You were the highest paid, weren't you. Then
you say you made more money than anybody? I think, so,
what is that?

Speaker 3 (51:36):
What does that mean?

Speaker 4 (51:37):
What?

Speaker 3 (51:37):
What kind of number was it?

Speaker 1 (51:39):
Tell me later, I'll tell you it was a big number.
He's a big number. Well, it was several million dollars
for four months work?

Speaker 3 (51:46):
You think so for I?

Speaker 2 (51:49):
Okay, no, no, no, But I think you were sat
several months of work.

Speaker 1 (51:53):
No, for the shooting season, for the shooting seth. But
I think but you, guys, I think you were with
your what your per episode was you were coming back?
I think it was. It was close. It wasn't the same.
I think it. I think I have an idea.

Speaker 3 (52:05):
But I think I didn't get several millions of dollars.

Speaker 1 (52:08):
Well, no, not for six not for six episodes. You
wouldn't know if you not for a full season. Not
more than a million of dollars for a full season.
Oh no, I got way more than a million dollars
for a full of season, right yeah, okay, but you
say several well more than one. Well I got more
than one, right, Okay. So I'm saying I think we
were in a similar position. I think we were in

(52:29):
a similar ps I do. I think we're in a
similar position. I think, But also it's different. That's different.
I left for years and they wanted me back, like
and that's another problem with the whole thing is that
the numbers are all over the place and everybody's contracts
are different, and it's I really.

Speaker 2 (52:43):
Don't care what anybody's making, Like, I really don't care
what you make and what the next person makes, as
long as I'm happy with what I'm making.

Speaker 1 (52:48):
No exactly how No, that's fine. But what do you
do you regret? What? What would you do differently now?
So you leave the show? You get the six episodes
paint reversed, and tell me what you would do differently
about what now that you're not working? Would you not
have done it? Would you have been part of the
I don't.

Speaker 3 (53:05):
Feel that way. I feel like listen, I mean again,
I'm a human. I have feelings. I mean, I can't
you how long do you treat a person fucked up.

Speaker 1 (53:18):
So you're standing by that you may even know how
hard this is. I mean, I have to good can
I do?

Speaker 3 (53:24):
At this point?

Speaker 1 (53:25):
I'm saying many people had said I would have gone back,
I would have worked for four years. I mean, how
is it affected?

Speaker 2 (53:29):
I just I don't know that I can say that.
I know that I know that I don't deserve to
be in this position that.

Speaker 1 (53:39):
I'm in, right, But I think it's very admirable that
you're standing in it, even knowing that you have a
different situation.

Speaker 2 (53:44):
I feel like I have another choice. I mean, because
I don't think that they didn't give me any choices.
They've never wanted to sit down and talk to me.
No one at that company has ever called me and said,
what is happening?

Speaker 1 (53:55):
Maybe they'll call you now, what's going on?

Speaker 3 (53:57):
Why can't we?

Speaker 1 (53:57):
Maybe they'll call you why can't we?

Speaker 3 (53:59):
Though I've asked them myself.

Speaker 1 (54:01):
You never know this is going to have This is
going to be a very I feel that this is
going to be an impactful interview. And let's see, the
last week they sent a letter out saying they were
going to try to change practice. Is bravo. Maybe you'll
call Nini and at least men de fact listen, everybody
can change.

Speaker 2 (54:17):
I think everybody can change. I want you to know that,
first of all, that you're doing a great thing. And
so we said that we were going to talk about
the black and white treatment. Reason the reason why we're
talking about it. What you're doing is great. At the
end of the day, as long as a voice is heard,
that is all that matters, and that we get what
we're trying to get out of the situation. Okay, So

(54:39):
if it takes you to go and do it, you
go and do it. I'm right here for you. I'm
behind you, I'm supporting you. I couldn't do it, but
you can do it. And even though maybe my voice
wasn't heard by them, but trust me, my voice was.

Speaker 3 (54:54):
Heard by many people. Many people heard my voice.

Speaker 1 (54:58):
Yes, but I don't think that forward their message. I
don't think the problem is doing all these short shows
and interviews. You'd say, one quick thing. It's a clip.
It's not a conversation. It's not like understanding, like the
bottom line the Chris, I didn't know. The crystallization for
me is that you felt that there was there was
systemic discrimination, and even if it wasn't to the level

(55:20):
that you thought it was, you felt you weren't being
treated fairly, and you had a complaint with the company
that you were working with that you were making a
lot of money for, so you felt that there was
an equal treatment. You felt that you wanted to be
talked to and with by the powers that be, and
you felt that you were effectively and ignored and then
subsequently demoted and then kind of pushed out, and you

(55:43):
felt also like you started this thing, of course, I mean,
and now you're an outsider everybody.

Speaker 2 (55:49):
I mean, listen, you have to be blind to not
see that I started it. I mean, we're not crazy.
I know everything that I did it was a lot,
and I have them in many ways. They never respected me.
No one to give me one call and say.

Speaker 1 (56:05):
You're telling me you never have had a phone call
from anyone. Never.

Speaker 2 (56:09):
They never called me up and said, let's see what
the hell is wrong with Nini. What the hell is
she talking about over there? Let's talk to her.

Speaker 1 (56:17):
Now in the executives, not even the high as though. Interesting,
I'm shocked that after all of these years of you
being this entertainer, this star talent, this rain maker for Bravo,
that you never had an email, a phone call or
a conversation. That's just absolutely shocking to me that it

(56:40):
just went dark four years ago. I found that very
difficult to believe. It would have been so much easier.
Life is so much easier.

Speaker 2 (56:59):
We just have a do you think it would not
it would have been so much easier.

Speaker 1 (57:04):
Well, it's funny, because no, it was just like me
to say, what the hell are you talking about, because
you know what I would say. Well, let's go you first,
you get a call from Andy and Francis and your executive.
What can we do? What would you like? What would
you say?

Speaker 2 (57:20):
I would be like, Wow, you guys decided to call
after like four years, I mean yeah, Like, so are
we gonna do this over the phone?

Speaker 3 (57:28):
I am. I gonna come sit in your office and
so I can look you dead in your eyes.

Speaker 1 (57:31):
So you come in the office and what what? How
can we work this out? What can we do?

Speaker 2 (57:35):
First of all, the very first thing I want. I
probably have a sign on my forehead that says fair treatment.
I want fair treatment.

Speaker 1 (57:43):
But how can they treat you fairly? Now when you
don't work there? What would you like now?

Speaker 4 (57:46):
Oh?

Speaker 3 (57:47):
Well I don't work there. Now, I mean, would you.

Speaker 1 (57:49):
Like to work there? Would you like to on TV?

Speaker 3 (57:51):
I can't say that I would. I can't say that
I would.

Speaker 1 (57:54):
Well, you have to ask for what you want because
the universe might bring it. So what is it that
you want? You want what I want and I wouldn't
say it here. You want some fair compensation for lost wages?
I assume.

Speaker 2 (58:05):
There's a lot I want. Okay, there's a lot you want,
and I think that they can do it. And the
first thing is, as I said before, it's fair treatment
across the board, okay, and the things that are more
important A union would be great, but I know those
are the things that they can't just make happen overnight.
But it would be great to have support in trying

(58:26):
to get a union for a reality.

Speaker 1 (58:28):
Well that is no sag. After it has backed what
we're doing and said that they are ready, you can
call them. I can give you the hot top of
the to the heap, give you the contact to get
what you need. But I would say to Bravo if
they called me, we're going to sit down and negotiate
what should be in everyone's contracts moving forward. Here are
some terms. Here's some boiler plate language that should be

(58:49):
in everyone's contracts moving forward. And I did kind of
lay out ten terms as a starting point to say,
if a person comes in at this level, this is
the minimum, and if they go on another season, and
if the show gets picked up and you know, and
and but there is a systemic problem. It's great that
they said we're sorry that you know, we're gonna get

(59:09):
people a psychologist and that we're gonna look at alcohol consumption.
But what they need to be saying is the whole
industry can't be exploiting our content on streamers that we
never even knew would exists. I never knew, hey, you
was going to Common, Amazon and Prime and sell. They
had the Chicken ten thousand ways. I'm wings your broth
were stuck. I mean, they've got this fucking thing from

(59:31):
seven two hundred and fifty dollars fifteen years ago sold everywhere.
And when people say you signed up for that, I didn't.
I signed a contract. I thought were doing this show
on this channel. I didn't know maybe an Australian different netw.

Speaker 2 (59:42):
I really agree with that the show is sold everywhere.
You see it everywhere.

Speaker 1 (59:47):
What about the memes, Well, you talk about the gifts
and the memes, about the two or dredre to tell
them that.

Speaker 2 (59:51):
Yeah, the gifts and the memes are insane, and we
don't make one dollar off of it, well not even
a dollar, one penny. And I'm probably more mean than
any housewife ever. My memes are everywhere, and some of
the memes I don't like. Nobody gives up and.

Speaker 1 (01:00:09):
It kills you.

Speaker 2 (01:00:10):
You and I'm watching people with pictures and memes of
my mouth opening, closing, eyes opening, closed, head turned around,
and it's.

Speaker 3 (01:00:21):
Really fucked up, and you don't get one penny.

Speaker 1 (01:00:24):
And brother was still making money off of that, a.

Speaker 3 (01:00:26):
Ton of money.

Speaker 2 (01:00:27):
And the company that I think created the memes sold
for four hundred million two I think Facebook or somebody.

Speaker 3 (01:00:35):
It was this company that makes these.

Speaker 1 (01:00:36):
Memes and it's their talent, and I don't get one product.

Speaker 2 (01:00:41):
The thing that's worse for me is my face. And Lord,
I don't want to keep saying black child, but my
face is everywhere and ever rememe. I don't see your
faces like that. It's my face, and they don't give
me one penny for that. I know, and the episodes
that I've been in and they have played a trillion

(01:01:02):
times everywhere, and I don't get a penny for that.

Speaker 1 (01:01:06):
I agree. I agree. Well, I see you on TikTok
everyone using your sounds. I've used them. I did it
with my daughter. You're not getting paid for that, no, right,
But no one's really acknowledging that it was Bravo's talent,
Bravo's product. So they distributed it, they sold it, and
so they're still making money off of that. So it's
a big it's a big issue that will have to

(01:01:27):
get resolved because you're going to see your content. It
could be for one hundred years. But that is when
we signed and we didn't know how many ways that
they would sell it. It's a new world order. We
didn't even know what's streaming, what there was. We had
no Twitter when we started on the House, there was
no Twitter. So what do you think of the state
of the show today?

Speaker 2 (01:01:47):
I think it is well at least. First of all,
I don't watch the show. I watched the clips that
come down Instagram, you know those clips, and I think
Atlanta has changed a lot. Actually, they look like they
are suffering. The girls don't look entertaining. They just don't

(01:02:07):
look like housewives. I thought when we were on the
show the women were more like higher just I mean,
I don't know that. Everybody just look, it's boring. Not
only is it boring that the women, who are they
and where did they come from? And why are they
sitting on this show?

Speaker 1 (01:02:25):
Do you think that that medium has died? I mean,
is it a soap proper? Now? Is it days of
our lives? Where it's not It's just tired now and
it's on the way.

Speaker 3 (01:02:34):
So and I think, like you said, it's like a
dinosaur now. No, it's just tragic, it's just old.

Speaker 1 (01:02:43):
Do you think that they choose people like you and
I who had challenging upbringings and like wounded birds to
come in and be in this medium because it creates
drama and we're all a little fed up in some way,
so we're going.

Speaker 2 (01:02:57):
To I think they chose us in the beginning for whatever,
for the reason was, but we became so big, became
bigger than the show. And I think that they don't
want women on the show who are big.

Speaker 3 (01:03:08):
If you notice to me, all.

Speaker 2 (01:03:10):
The women who are big and who are popular, they
figure out how to get all them off the show.
And they lead the girls who are boring in mediocre
because they are not a threat and they're medioca just
put it like that. But all the popular girls are
the hot girls of the girls that everybody like, they
push them off the show. You're too big and you're
over shattering other people who would like to stand in

(01:03:34):
the front.

Speaker 1 (01:03:35):
So what do you want to be when you grow up?
What do you want to do now? If you could
have any career, any gig. What would be the top
three things you want to do? Now? What do you want?

Speaker 3 (01:03:44):
I'm an actress and.

Speaker 2 (01:03:48):
Although I fell into reality kind of before my acting
and Reality listen, it opened up a lot of doors
for me. It was a great launching platform for me.
But I'm an actress, so I would like to act
and that's what I do. I act and I talk
and I sing and I dance, and so I would
like to do those things.

Speaker 1 (01:04:07):
Well, right now, that's on strike. So at least you're
in the same boat as everybody else in that in
that industry, so you can like map and chart your course.
And are your agents working for you as an actress?
Are they is that? What are they do? They think
you're going to be able to have a career as
an actress?

Speaker 3 (01:04:25):
I hope, So I hope.

Speaker 1 (01:04:26):
I hope.

Speaker 2 (01:04:27):
That's why I'm with them, because they believe in me
and in my talent. You're right, we are on strike
right now, but hopefully.

Speaker 1 (01:04:35):
Because that feels like a good new chapter. It feels
like at least you're not going back to reality. It's
something new. So you got you know, you feel beaten down,
you seem vulnerable, and you seem different.

Speaker 4 (01:04:45):
To me.

Speaker 1 (01:04:46):
You just you, and you were biting your nails off
this week. You weren't sleeping. You you will sleep, but
what what was? What were you so scared of? You?
And I feel like you weren't. Do you think I
was going to gotcha you?

Speaker 2 (01:04:57):
Or like, no, no, no, no, that's not it. That wasn't
ever my fear, my thing is just a sitting here
talking about all of this stuff.

Speaker 3 (01:05:08):
You know what? Other door is going to close now?

Speaker 2 (01:05:11):
Because you know for me, as I said, doors have
closed for me at times. Now, I want to be
clear that this last year or so, there have been
opportunities to come to me, but prior to that, doors
were closed.

Speaker 1 (01:05:27):
I don't think that doors are going to close after today.
I really don't.

Speaker 2 (01:05:31):
I hope not, because I don't understand why they would
And why am I not able to work?

Speaker 1 (01:05:40):
Why all you want to do is work?

Speaker 3 (01:05:41):
All I want to do is work? Leave me alone?

Speaker 1 (01:05:43):
So you want to be an actress? What else? Do
you want to do a podcast? Or you don't?

Speaker 3 (01:05:46):
Oh? I love talking.

Speaker 2 (01:05:47):
I love to do a podcast. I've always would love
to do a talk show, but I've always I was
always forbidden from doing a talk show. I could never
do a talk show. Bravo, somebody I don't know. I
could never do a talk show.

Speaker 1 (01:06:00):
What does that mean?

Speaker 3 (01:06:01):
It meant that I could never do a talk show.

Speaker 1 (01:06:03):
You were someone told you could never do a talk show.

Speaker 2 (01:06:05):
I was never able to do a talk show or
do a podcast. Whenever I was in talks to do
a talk show or a podcast, it would disappear.

Speaker 3 (01:06:18):
After a while. We could be.

Speaker 2 (01:06:19):
Talking, talks could be going on really good, and then
all of a sudden that opportunity would disappear. And that
is not by chance.

Speaker 1 (01:06:32):
What mistakes have you made? What have been your biggest mistakes?

Speaker 2 (01:06:36):
Oh gosh, my biggest mistakes. I have made mistakes as
a mother. You know, I think I'm a great mom,
but I think I could have been even better mom.
I think I've made some mistakes in that area. If
you're talking about on the show.

Speaker 1 (01:06:54):
Career, in my life and your career, Like, what, mister,
what in all these years you're going back, what do
you regret? What would you do differently?

Speaker 2 (01:07:01):
I don't have a lot of regrets in my life
because for me, anything that I've ever done really wrong,
it was always a learning experience for me. So I've
never really chopped them up as like losses. Always was
like learning things.

Speaker 3 (01:07:16):
Oh gosh, if I could.

Speaker 2 (01:07:19):
I don't know about my career, but if I could
do anything better, I would be a better mom.

Speaker 1 (01:07:23):
Is that because of the stuff going on with your son?
A you're blaming yourself? Uh?

Speaker 2 (01:07:27):
No, I don't blame myself for it. I just I
worked a lot, and sometimes I think about maybe if
I was more. I've always been a worker in some
kind of way. And even when my husband was sending
me back and forth to Los Angeles to try to
become an actor doing pilot season, I was leaving my

(01:07:47):
son with my husband so that I could go and
try to open up doors of opportunity, and I just,
you know, wish that I was maybe you know, I
didn't work as much.

Speaker 1 (01:07:59):
Maybe are you connected with your kids now though.

Speaker 3 (01:08:02):
As always been connected? Yes?

Speaker 1 (01:08:05):
You have, so I'm saying you still are being a
good mother. Yeah, you're able to.

Speaker 2 (01:08:08):
I didn't have my mom in my life, so I
always I just want to be the best mom because
I know what it is to have a parent, and
I didn't have my mom or father, my bilogical mom
and father in my life.

Speaker 3 (01:08:19):
I had my aunt and uncle like my parents. But
I just know what it means.

Speaker 1 (01:08:24):
So you're working on it now, like you're even more conniz.

Speaker 2 (01:08:27):
Yeah, And in my career, I just don't know if
there's anything that I feel like I.

Speaker 3 (01:08:37):
Just really made a mistake doing. I just don't.

Speaker 2 (01:08:43):
Again, the reality thing was something that kind of fell
in my lap. It wasn't anything that I was looking
for and fell in my lap, and it was a
good thing for me and it really opened up doors
for me.

Speaker 1 (01:08:53):
Do you miss it?

Speaker 3 (01:08:56):
I can't say to that now housewives miss that?

Speaker 1 (01:09:00):
Like the beginning? Did you miss the day beginning?

Speaker 2 (01:09:04):
Otherwise it's stressful, I know. I mean it's a lot
honest slang. I mean people don't know. Like people see
me all the time and say, oh my gosh, well
you have to go back on that show. We would
really love to see you on there. It's stressful, honestly,
and people look at you like you like it is
really a lot. I felt like on the Being off
the show, I feel like I'm a totally different person.

(01:09:26):
Now off the show, I feel like I'm more like
at ease and more relaxed. I feel like when I
was on the show, people would say, you know, my
husband could say, we're out of ketchup, and you're like catch,
I mean, you're like just screaming about any and everything else. Yeah,
because it's so stressful, and I missed the trips. I mean,

(01:09:48):
you know, well I don't.

Speaker 1 (01:09:50):
It's funny because my entire stuff, everybody didn't see you
the way that I've seen you after talking to you
this week, seeming vulnerable, more a human, like you're larger
than life and you're this character that's like a tough bitch.
And that's what everybody thought was coming in, you know
what I mean. They all thought like, oh, I thought
just that everything's good with you too, you know, like
you're just so strong and hard, and I think that

(01:10:12):
show and that medium makes us like that, like you've
got to be I.

Speaker 2 (01:10:17):
Think people who really know me know like I'm really
like cool, Like I'm really cool. I'm private, I'm in
my own little circle. My circle is smaller people.

Speaker 4 (01:10:27):
You know.

Speaker 3 (01:10:27):
I guess I'm tough when I need to be tough.
But even in my.

Speaker 2 (01:10:31):
Relationship, you know, I don't wear the pants. I don't
want to wear the pants, you know, I feel like
I wear them every day.

Speaker 1 (01:10:37):
So you know, you're a girly girl. I am.

Speaker 3 (01:10:39):
I get with my dude.

Speaker 2 (01:10:40):
And he can handle everything, you know, the same thing
when I was with Grant, you got it. I'm I'm
all the ways submissive. I don't want to do anything.
You can handle everything. And I just think it's just
how people see you. And I also think that the
show give people an idea like they think they know
you that they really don't.

Speaker 1 (01:10:59):
Exactly. That's what I'm getting at.

Speaker 2 (01:11:01):
Yeah, they don't know you, you know. I think that I'm
really kind of chill. But I feel like if somebody,
you know, they want to get it, like I feel
like you can get it. Yeah, yeah, like I can't. Ye,
But other than Dad, I feel like I'm just over
here in a shell.

Speaker 1 (01:11:18):
Well exactly, I get it. I don't. I think we're misunderstood.
I think we're misunderstood. And it's been probably fifteen years
and we're in our fifties now, So yeah, what do
you think about age and vantage you feel old? Old?
You're a grandmother three times over? Like yeah, do you
feel like it all has to have meaning? Now? What
are we doing with our lives? Like it's just it's different.

(01:11:39):
Health is more important. You've lost someone like, what's your relationship?
You know, we just used to churn and burn and grind,
and it's just different. Now.

Speaker 3 (01:11:46):
I feel like I am at my best.

Speaker 1 (01:11:48):
You do yes, because yea, I feel like I.

Speaker 3 (01:11:51):
Look my best. I'm at my best.

Speaker 2 (01:11:55):
I feel like fifty is the new fucking thirty five
or something.

Speaker 1 (01:12:00):
Really, so you're happy. This is a turning.

Speaker 2 (01:12:02):
I think that, you know, this is just I feel
like fifty is good.

Speaker 1 (01:12:06):
I feel like fifty is great and it's confident. I
feel like it's good and don't apologize.

Speaker 2 (01:12:10):
So many people that's fifty that looks eighty and I
feel like I can look at the mirror. I still
got my same Hello, I mean good morning, like I mean,
I feel good about it, you know, I think I
think I'm doing good and yeah, And I have my grandbabies.
I love, love love them. I love them.

Speaker 1 (01:12:29):
They're so sweet.

Speaker 3 (01:12:31):
They're everything. I have a eleven, a ten and an.

Speaker 1 (01:12:35):
Eight and there your life, oh my god.

Speaker 2 (01:12:37):
And I have one girl. My girl is everything because
I don't have a girl.

Speaker 3 (01:12:40):
I have boys. So I love my babies and my baby.

Speaker 1 (01:12:45):
You spoil them, of course.

Speaker 3 (01:12:46):
They can do anything they want to do.

Speaker 1 (01:12:48):
You feel money noise that you financially. Do you have
financial anxiety because it's been a couple of years without working.

Speaker 3 (01:12:54):
I think it's natural too. Yeah, I think it's natural too.

Speaker 2 (01:12:58):
And I think that was done to me to say
you sit over there and you shut your ass.

Speaker 1 (01:13:02):
Up, and have you been more conservative and spending? Are
you like just more?

Speaker 2 (01:13:07):
You know what, I was lucky and I was blessed
to have invested in some things that was able to
push me through. Had I not made some good investments,
I would have been fucked up.

Speaker 1 (01:13:17):
Honestly, I'm really sorry. Wow yeah, wow, all right. Well
finally your rose and thorn. The rose of your career
and the thorn, and you could do your life too, but.

Speaker 2 (01:13:31):
My life, your career the roses. Honestly, you know, being
a housewife was definitely a rose.

Speaker 3 (01:13:43):
I don't want to like.

Speaker 2 (01:13:46):
Act as if it was like the worst time of
my life. It actually was a great time when it
came to me. It was a great opportunity for me,
and the platform couldn't be it couldn't be any any greater,
you know, you know that. I mean, it put me
into so many homes and so many offices, and it

(01:14:07):
did so many things for me, so for that. There
is definitely a rose there. You gotta know that it
was a good thing for me.

Speaker 4 (01:14:15):
All right.

Speaker 1 (01:14:15):
Two things can be happening at the same time. You
could have had a great experience and you were grateful
for the experience, as they should be grateful to you
because you provided for the experience too. But you can
also want something different, and I I are you afraid
that do you have this feeling? Because I do you
know when like a parent may not be the best parent,
but then you like want their approval and you feel

(01:14:36):
badly like do you have a little bit of fear
about the andy part of it? Like? I do you do?
Do you like you not? Like you bit the hand
to care? What he care that he hates you or
that he's mad at you? I feel Does that make
you feel self conscious in a way? No?

Speaker 3 (01:14:55):
I actually feel.

Speaker 2 (01:14:58):
Sad for a person that doesn't have a forgiving heart.
You know, I can be mad with you, but I'm
not gonna be forever mad with you, Like I can't
carry that grudge and that hatred in my heart forever.
I don't know, You're right, I do not know. I

(01:15:23):
feel sad for a person that doesn't have a forgiving heart.
I feel sad for a person that simply cannot just
And I don't know that this is him or not, but.

Speaker 3 (01:15:35):
I'm not worried about him.

Speaker 1 (01:15:42):
Feel that everything you're doing and saying.

Speaker 2 (01:15:45):
Yeah, so I can't take it back Like I wish,
I wish I could say something different. I feel like,
I mean, it is what it is like this.

Speaker 1 (01:15:57):
I mean, it's not easy to stand up for some thing. Yeah,
really not. It's really hard. It's not easy to go
against the green. I heard that three different women housewives
were saying, none of this affects me because I'm a
strong woman. So I handle myself. And it's because they're
paid there, they're working there, and I, you know, and
I kind of get it. But you got to stand

(01:16:19):
together for what's correct, and it's not easy. It's very
difficult to stand up for what's right.

Speaker 3 (01:16:23):
Yeah, I don't listen. I don't want any beef.

Speaker 1 (01:16:27):
He just wanted to be clean.

Speaker 3 (01:16:29):
I just wanted to be clean.

Speaker 2 (01:16:30):
And I've also asked to even you know, I've tried
to find a way for he and I to sit
down and talk, but he's never wanted to do that.

Speaker 1 (01:16:37):
You've called him. I did call he won't take your
phone call. He has not taken my phone call. And
I've also spoken through our reps. So just see, you know,
this is just to clear the air, you know, not
for anything else, not to be a housewife, not to anything,
just you know, just to just to understand him.

Speaker 3 (01:16:57):
And for him to understand me pretty much.

Speaker 1 (01:17:00):
Yeah, and you don't see that happening.

Speaker 3 (01:17:03):
Well, he's never wanted to do that, you know. And
that's okay.

Speaker 2 (01:17:06):
Though I'm not pressuring it or pushing it or anything.
I mean, everybody move when they're ready in their time,
you know what I mean. So this is he's not ready,
and that's okay.

Speaker 1 (01:17:17):
I get it. I feel badly about that part of it.
Not because I don't think everything I've said and done
is correct. I feel badly because of how I envision
his mind is perceiving it. Does that make any sense?
He's perceiving it as that he represents an institution that
has given us opportunities that have been amazing for us,

(01:17:38):
and we do not negate that, but we also worked
for it. There's been one hundred and fifty housewives theay
I haven't all had the same effect as we have.
So we should take some credit on our own, but
I feel badly for the way that he must think
I have fucked him over when it's not about him.
It's not even doing and I'm not doing anyone. It's
I just said something and a bunch of people reached
out and it became a movement of which he is

(01:18:00):
the face of them.

Speaker 2 (01:18:02):
Even if you were suing that, I believe at some
point he would sit down with you.

Speaker 1 (01:18:07):
I am not suing that, and people think that I am.

Speaker 3 (01:18:10):
I am not believe that. I believe our treatment would
be different.

Speaker 1 (01:18:12):
I think the circumstances are different because I wasn't being
demoted and I wasn't coming in for a complaint about
me right other people. I just said a thing about
a reckoning that represented, frankly, the whole industry, not even
Bravo and certainly not Andy. It's a whole systemic thing.
So you were talking about something more specific in micro

(01:18:33):
and I'm talking about a macro issue. So it's a
little different, I think. But I also recognize your struggles
as a black woman. I please believe that I do. Yeah,

(01:18:53):
what is your thorn of your career?

Speaker 2 (01:18:57):
You know, probably my thorn is my family. Listen to
me explain it my family being thrust into this because
they never.

Speaker 3 (01:19:06):
Asked to be in the spotlight.

Speaker 2 (01:19:09):
So if my children were so young coming into this,
and if they made a young mistake like a young
person do, the whole world heard about it and knew
about it, and they were crucified, not just by their
parents but by the public. So the thorn of it
for me is having my family be thrown into something

(01:19:29):
they did not ask to be thrown into.

Speaker 3 (01:19:31):
This is what I want to do, not what they wanted.

Speaker 1 (01:19:33):
To I didn't think. I would never have thought you
would say that. But that's interesting too, because that's when
I say the exploitation without compensation. The children of reality
television aren't compensated even for future, for college fund, et cetera.
So your kids, you don't know, they could be fucked
up with it. Without it, you can't know. You're not
a genie. But at the very least, they're there because

(01:19:55):
you're there, and they should be compensated. Children working who
have to have a microphone on them and who have
to be in the room at a time to have
a conversation with mom about something the producers say, they
have to have a conversation with mom about that's working.
But that's why. And I tell you because you said
it to me. I am right. I very rarely am
not open to interpretation for what I'm saying. I am right.

(01:20:17):
They are wrong. It is that is a zero sum game.
So I am, for the first time in a really
long time, like I am one, one hundred percent right.
If you don't like it, you think I bet the
Hannah fed me. I really don't care, because I am right.

Speaker 3 (01:20:32):
It's the truth. It's the truth, you know.

Speaker 2 (01:20:35):
I hate when my kids are being you know, people
in the public are talking about them for whatever reason,
because they never asked to be in this. Even my
husband when he was alive, you know, if he was anything.

Speaker 1 (01:20:46):
You know, they just and they won't do it without them.
They let you know explicitly they won't do it without them.

Speaker 2 (01:20:51):
Now, my husband and kids were very much a part
of it interesting and we gave our blood, sweat and tears.

Speaker 1 (01:20:58):
We really did go into the grave saying that you
are the most iconic housewife of all time. You are
the greatest to play the game. You are the goat,
You are the rushmore. Who would your rushmore be?

Speaker 3 (01:21:11):
Probably you? Who else is it going to be you.

Speaker 1 (01:21:13):
Gotta have two other people, me and you and who else.

Speaker 2 (01:21:19):
I can't think of too many. Maybe Vicky, Teresa.

Speaker 1 (01:21:24):
That's what you. Yeah, that's kind of what I said,
because you know what I always say about you, it's
the one hundred you were never The people that are
my goats aren't there just for the hair and the makeup.
They may have that, but they don't they get dirty.
The people are willing to be unliked, are willing to
be unpopular. Yes, you have been loved, but you have

(01:21:47):
been unpopular, polarizing. Teresa has been loved, but she has
been hated. Like people. Vicky looked like a lunatic crazy
and maybe I like her, Maybe I don't even know.
I don't really know her. But I gotta give mad
respect for someone who's willing to put it all out
on the court and be loved and hated. And that's
why the goats or the goats, not because they were first,
because it's just different. When you watch a show, you

(01:22:08):
watch Beverly Hills, everybody's worried about being perfect, being like
they'll get dirty enough, but they get right back into
the bath. We went to the mats. We were animals.
So you know, we were animals, so.

Speaker 2 (01:22:21):
Probably played the game better than what we played the
game better than anybody.

Speaker 1 (01:22:25):
We played the game better than anybody. Yeah, yeah, this
is like you know, Tom Brady and Jordan.

Speaker 2 (01:22:30):
And by the way, you guys had ten houses on
one property to show it, honey, Okay, okay, okay.

Speaker 3 (01:22:37):
This girl and an apple tree.

Speaker 1 (01:22:39):
And an apple tree and we're planting a peach tree. Okay.
So I based on what I'm hearing because I wasn't there.
I wasn't on the show with you, So for me
to know if you were treated unfairly, I do think
something shifted in what if what you were saying was
you along the way talked about being discriminated again. You

(01:23:00):
wrote emails, you wrote letters, you made phone calls, and
then you filed a complaint after you felt that you
were demoted and moved out because you felt that you
had been treated unfairly with something that you had built.
And the intersection of that and me wanting to do
a show with you and calling different people and them
saying we couldn't get that done. I didn't understand it,

(01:23:23):
to be honest with you, because neither did Paul. I
didn't know that you were quote unquote toxic or kryptonite
or whatever like. I didn't know that. And when I
said to agents and when I said to production companies,
I want to do this show, they basically gave me
a brick wall. And I didn't understand why. So I
don't know if it's the press machine, because what we
didn't talk about is the Bravo PR machine. Of that's

(01:23:46):
a big machine that they've been trying to fight against
the reckoning. But the reckoning is winning. But that PR
machine is strong, and you can tell which articles are
that machine. It's just the machine and the micro bloggers
and all that no problem. But I will say that
I don't I don't know the universe has treated you
unfairly because that's what I bumped up against. I wasn't
watching closely enough to know exactly what the reason was.

(01:24:07):
I just knew that Nani's hysterical, she's talented, we get along.
People would die to watch us together. We're hilarious. Put
us in an RV anywhere, put the cameras on right now,
and that thing will rate. That's all I knew, and
that's why I called you. Yeah, and I got a roadblock,
So That's that's all that I do know.

Speaker 2 (01:24:25):
So that is, you know, to even get a roadblock
is why?

Speaker 1 (01:24:33):
And it hurts you because you're feeling self conscious, like
what the fuck is everyone saying about me?

Speaker 3 (01:24:36):
But why?

Speaker 1 (01:24:37):
Right?

Speaker 3 (01:24:37):
First of all?

Speaker 2 (01:24:37):
Why because you know, if you check anywhere that I've
ever worked, no one would say that other than this
group of people.

Speaker 3 (01:24:45):
Right, So why would that happen?

Speaker 1 (01:24:47):
I don't know. I really don't know because I didn't
even I didn't. I just thought I was thinking market
You know me, I'm thinking about marketing and that we'd
be entertaining together and we still wouldn't. Who knows me?
I can we The thing about twenty twenty three that
you have to understand, we're talking about dinosaurs. Okay, it's
streamers for old people. We are, you know, if you're
in the future, we're sitting here in my basement making

(01:25:08):
our own goddamn content. We've got our own camera here.
This is our this is where we are. This is
our content. We decide where it goes. It's not going
to be edited and chopped up to make us look
a certain way. I'm in charge, and I'm I thank
you for trusting me to come to my house and
to sit down and to have a real conversation, because
this is our decision. We are no longer controlled by
anybody else, and they decide when it goes up and

(01:25:30):
how it goes up, and what's said, and what we
can say and what we can't say, and when we
can't say, who we can work with when we get
to air it. Blah blah blah, noah, So shift because
you get to decide. You could put out your own content.
It's nini is you are so entertaining and you don't.
You can be polarizing. You cannot be polarizing. You just
put out the honest content and let them decide. But

(01:25:51):
not someone else speaking for you, not someone else putting
what you are out there. So you should just this
is this is the era of you pretty using your
own content. You don't need anybody else to be in control.
What I would say, That's what I would say to you.
That's very true, you control, you'd get in charge of
your own words, talent. No one's gonna put your talent

(01:26:11):
in a box. So that's what I think. How do
you do you? What do you do? You think social
media has helped or hurt the show? How has social
media affected the whole medium.

Speaker 3 (01:26:25):
I think social media helps.

Speaker 2 (01:26:27):
I think social media helps everything well, by the way,
I mean, where would we be without social media today?

Speaker 3 (01:26:36):
I think it helps. I don't think it hurts. I don't.

Speaker 1 (01:26:41):
You should have a podcast and some version of a show.

Speaker 3 (01:26:43):
I should have a podcast.

Speaker 2 (01:26:44):
I should have all the things that you have and
anybody else have.

Speaker 3 (01:26:49):
But I have. As I said before, I was never
able to have podcasts.

Speaker 1 (01:26:54):
Okay, Well, I have a good feeling. I have a
feeling that something had happened. For something to happen. I
wanted you to talk, because like you haven't talked, and
I feel like you've been a little you stuck your
in between and you got to get out of the riptide.
You got to get past the bad set. You gotta go.
You go back to shore or go out to the
big waves. But you cannot sit in the middle. Yes,
that's what I think. You gotta go get the big waves.

Speaker 3 (01:27:16):
I do too, which is why I'm here.

Speaker 1 (01:27:18):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:27:18):
Now, I was beating myself up about coming.

Speaker 1 (01:27:20):
I know I was. I was. I didn't sleep either
because I was worried. I didn't like the waves.

Speaker 3 (01:27:25):
I beat myself up about coming.

Speaker 4 (01:27:27):
But you know.

Speaker 1 (01:27:28):
I was like, just go, and how do you feel
now having done it? Having come?

Speaker 2 (01:27:33):
I feel great? You do feel great? No, I don't
feel any kind of way. I feel great, you know,
just like you've you've gotten things that you know, don't
You can't work with Nannie, you know. I've got text messages.
Nobody likes Bethany, you know don't. So I'm human like you.
So I started feeling some kind of weight, like should
I come to her show?

Speaker 3 (01:27:54):
Should I not?

Speaker 1 (01:27:54):
To me?

Speaker 3 (01:27:54):
What the hell is she done?

Speaker 4 (01:27:56):
Oh?

Speaker 1 (01:27:56):
You, you and your own wanted to come, but then
people were getting your head and saying things, and you
were changing your own god opinion. Yeah, I mean you
told me your spiritual advisor.

Speaker 2 (01:28:05):
Said Tom and that you and I were going to
be very powerful together. And here I am, and we
almost dressed as twins

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