November 8, 2023 • 33 mins
Denise and Bethenny dig into the reality of the Real Housewives. Find out what caused Denise to do the show, who she’s friends with in real life, as well as who she’ll never speak to again!
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:11):
All right, so enter Housewives. When I went on Housewives,
they didn't want me because I had been on a
reality show before. It wasn't actress era. After me and
after my success, a different group was attracted of women
who wanted to use it to promote what they were
doing and monetize and it was just a different medium.
(00:33):
And Sarna and the other girl Eileen, and Kyle and
Garcel and then girls on Atlanta like actresses were now
on the show. But I don't think any no, I
know that none of the actresses were as successful as
you as an actress. Then coming into reality it seemed
like all the actresses, Okay and Richards, all the actresses
(00:55):
that came hadn't made it as an actress, so then
they were coming over to reality TV as their fame
success vehicle. So you're a different animal in this space
because you were very successful as an actress and then
you come into the Housewives, which is a questionable move
based on that. So what was that decision like and
(01:18):
what did it around you say, and what was dangled
in front of you by what I call the realm
to do it like this had to be an interesting decision.
Did you feel like you were at some low in
your career.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
Like no. So Lisa Renna mentioned it to me a
few years prior to me being on the show, and
I said, there's no way in how right? And then
she and I talked and I thought, you know what,
maybe this could be fun. It's something different, and Lisa
seems to have a good time on it. And it's
(01:52):
funny because when I joined the show, I never thought
of it as work. I thought of it as filming
moments with I thought was a friend with friends. And
you know, I thought this could be fun, it's something different.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
I was still like a documentary.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
Yeah, I just thought, all this could be fun. And
whatever I didn't I did not. I was not Again,
I wasn't educated on that show too much either. I
didn't understand the whole process and everything, which is good
and bad. I went into it so naively. Even though
Lisa Renna says that she shared, she shared some stuff,
(02:28):
but not a lot.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
No, and it couldn't have been a lot of money
at No.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
No, you don't. You don't do the show for the money.
On the show, you don't get paid.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
And when you don't start for the money, right, yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
Right, you get yeah, I meant the branding and stuff
like that that can come when you're on the show.
But I didn't do it because I couldn't pay the bills.
I did it because I thought this could be fun
and different and it's something I haven't done before.
Speaker 1 (02:56):
So, first of all, and in the first you just like,
just like Kathy Hilton, just like Brandy Glanville, just like
Liam McSweeney, you came in and had an amazing first season,
meaning everybody loved you didn't, but that's what happens with
most of these people. You know, she's cool, she's different,
et cetera. And then the whole thing the wheels come
off of bag and there's a crash and burn. And
(03:19):
I loved how you came in dressing like a normal
person does when they go on a balcony to somebody
else's hotel room. And we're in a hotel right now,
we're like not wearing a ball when I saw you
in jeans, Yeah, you weren't wearing a ball gown to
go to someone else's room. And that show of all
Beverly Hills, it's like it's costumes at all times. And
(03:39):
I saw I thought she looks normal, but you didn't
look normal within that sphere, and you know, you were
dressed like a normal person, like it's a reality show
in theory.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
That's what so yes, So when I met every all
the producers before I did the show, I went in
wearing jeans and a Guns and Roses T shirt and
I I did my hair makeup myself. I didn't have
a glam team, but I still looked, you know that
(04:12):
part put together ish. But I I said to them,
this is who I really am on the red carpet
and see I can be glammed up if I want to,
but if you want that, let me know, or do
you want if you want this? Then they were like,
(04:35):
we want you to be.
Speaker 1 (04:36):
You well because they and the audience would like want that.
But the other women crazy.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
And I was. I was surprised by that, like how
judgmental they were about my horn.
Speaker 1 (04:49):
Throw because that was that was the arc right.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
Before that that I looked like ship.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
Well, I'm sure, well that was the arc. The Erica
and Dorrie coming in, the Erica coming in and Dorry
changing with all the hairstyles was the arc in the
show where Kyle had different hairstyles. Lisa Wrenne was wearing
her short haircut and as sheath dress for years until
until then the costumes and the wigs and the whole
thing change. And if you look at Bravocon, it's like
(05:17):
an absolute costume party. It's changed.
Speaker 2 (05:21):
No, it's changed. And you know what, I like watching
it too, seeing, you know, I loved seeing what outfit
Deree was going to show up in. I was so
fascinated that she was like head to toe and all
that work.
Speaker 1 (05:32):
And I'm like, but you didn't want to be part
of it. But you didn't want to do that yourself because.
Speaker 2 (05:36):
That's not who I am. I wanted I do that
for an event. That's exactly how I am. Because for me,
it's work and I'll never forget this. Daurite said to me,
this is work, and I go, oh, well shit, you're right.
I didn't think of it that way. I just thought
of it as me going to dinner or lunch with girlfriends,
(05:57):
or being in the Bahamas wearing shorts, not going to
wear a freaking ball gown in the Bahamas. Yeah, at
a hotel. But she she was right in the sense
that this is work. So it's whatever image I suppose
that each women, each woman wants to put out there
(06:17):
of themselves, you know, how do they want to be perceived?
Speaker 1 (06:22):
But is it reality?
Speaker 2 (06:24):
Apparently not? I don't know.
Speaker 1 (06:26):
I mean, did it feel like it was based on reality?
Speaker 2 (06:29):
Well, for I don't know a lot of them outside
the show. So for me, I that's why I said
to the producers I'm involved in the show. I said,
I could be myself or I could be the actress
Denise Richards coming on and be glammed up the whole
time and treat it as if I'm filming a scripted
(06:50):
show playing a part. Wow, what I mean?
Speaker 1 (06:53):
No, I totally know what you mean. But the thing is,
how can you not do that when that's the game.
You can't walk onto the NF fell and decide to
play pee wee football. So now you're playing this game
and you're like, wait a second, I came on just
to play pee wee football, as we're all being real,
but like, here we are, it's the NFL. So how
am I not going to raise my game and my
airs bag right in the front of the camera shot
(07:14):
and you know, and wear ABCDFG letters everywhere all over
my body every minute of the Like, how do you
come in there? Without doing that otherwise.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
That's why I had to I had to make a decision,
and I said, I want to be myself, and myself
is I will go to lunch wearing jeans or if
I'm in the Bahamas, I'm wearing Schwartz. I'm not gonna
wear a ball gown unless they said wear a ball gown.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
Right. But the next season, it felt like you did
take it to another level because you seem like you
felt like the pressure.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
Not really, I still wore my jeans.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
Oh you, I feel like I thought it was a change.
Speaker 2 (07:55):
Actually, Kyle called me a ragamuffin in the second season,
so oh I still looked like a ragamuffin. But did I.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
That's what's crazy, Like did he Stritrid's bond girl is
a ragamuffin?
Speaker 2 (08:10):
I remember, I don't know if it aired or not.
When we were in the second season, we were in
Santa Barbara, I think, and they were talking about Teddy
and Kyle were talking about some shit about my clothes,
and I'm like, so what, like.
Speaker 1 (08:27):
Now, what.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
If I decided to get hair and makeup. I did
do that a few times when we weren't doing interviews.
I did get glam I'm like, well, who the fuck
wouldn't coming to dinner with you guys, Like I don't
want to look like.
Speaker 1 (08:40):
That's what I'm saying, shit ask Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
Okay, maybe I have my ship as jeans on, but
I don't want to have you feel I don't want
to look at myself on TV and look like a
piece of shit exactly.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
And the thing is, I was like you, I related
to you because I liked I'm all over I'm all
over social media looking like a piece of shit every
day because I look like a piece of shit most days,
I really do. I look like good when I'm being paid.
I'm being paid. I'm gonna put some makeup for me.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
It's work. Like my job since I was a teenager
has been. I can go to set wearing sweats, live
for it. You have a six am call, and you
get made up and get your wardrobe, and then when
I wrap, you know, sixteen hours later, I put my
(09:29):
sweats and drive home and.
Speaker 1 (09:30):
With the wipe in your hand to get the makeup. Yeah. Well,
by the way, that's exactly how I feel. You're damaging.
I mean, I have to be ridiculous. You're damaging your skin,
You're damaging your hair? Who wants to do that when
you don't have to?
Speaker 2 (09:40):
Well, a lot of times I would keep my makeup
on because I liked it, and I'm like, at least
I'll show up home looking cute.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
But but I meant my Aaron said, you always look
I'm getting amazing energy from Eron.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
No, he's such a good.
Speaker 1 (09:53):
Love love er all right, so without So that's why.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
I was like, do I treat this like a job
or do I treat this like a really reality? And I,
stupidly I think I guess treated it like reality.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
You would have been better back in the old school.
Jill zarren Nini Bethany like original things because we were
all I was wearing my like used sweater and we
were filming it in my literally at sweater. I bought
it could signed because I was broke. We were We
were in my studio Ikia designed department with like a
homemade set that they did the interviews. It wasn't so
what it is now, and I like that sloppiness. It
(10:29):
was what it was. It was real. We were real
people having real conversations and.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
Real comfortable and I also and that's and I wanted
to be myself and this was who I was, so
that's why I chose to just do that. Now. I
did do glam More my second season, but I didn't
dress in ball gowns.
Speaker 1 (10:49):
So was the whole experience? Did it hurt or help
your acting career?
Speaker 2 (10:53):
It didn't hurt my acting career, and I wasn't sure
how it would go, but it definitely amazing. Did so
going back to when I first signed on, did everyone
want me to do it?
Speaker 1 (11:06):
No?
Speaker 2 (11:08):
Some of my reps were like, absolutely not, and I said,
you know what, I'm gonna do it anyway. Fuck it,
it's and if it goes bad, then I'll take responsibility
for it. But because I also do think our business
is changing obviously. I mean, look at sometimes people are
hired for acting jobs based off of how many followers
(11:30):
they have on Instagram. So you have to also change
with the times too, if you want to stay relevant
and continue working. You know, I'm not believe it or not,
I'm not my twenties anymore, so I you know, have
to keep working.
Speaker 1 (11:47):
So it was a choice. It was like I got
pigot choice.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
I thought this could be fun, It's something different. I've
never done a show like this, before, and Lisa Renna
had talked so highly about it and wonderful oppera tunities
that she had from it. So that's why I thought,
why not Ultimately was it a good or bad experience?
It was ultimately a good experience. I actually have a
lot of fond memories. I have some rotten ones too,
(12:13):
but I have a lot of fond memories being on
that show.
Speaker 1 (12:16):
So do you think that it's possible to sustain relationships
on that show?
Speaker 2 (12:23):
Friendships or relationship any like?
Speaker 1 (12:24):
If you and Aaron were on that show for the
next ten years, would it be difficult?
Speaker 2 (12:28):
I think if a couple gets divorced, I think they
would have gotten divorced, regardless of being on reality show
or not. I think being on a reality show, though,
does highlight certain things, and maybe watching it you could
see yourself differently and be like, well, crap, I didn't
know I acted like that, or I didn't know he
or she acted like that. So I think that it
(12:50):
could highlight certain things. I do think there is pressure
from being you know, especially because I am an actress
and I have been in the public for so long.
I think some couples it's different for them because that's.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
New new territory.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
They become famous when they start doing the show. That
makes sense, and it's sometimes that's hard to navigate.
Speaker 1 (13:30):
And what about its effect on kids? What about your
kids being on the same thing because they've grown up
in the machine.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
My kids, they've grown up with, you know, God, very differently. Now.
Like I said, if if a family comes on these
shows and they've never experienced anything like that, that's where
I think it could be a little difficult to try
to navigate the challenges that come with people saying things
(13:57):
about you all of a sudden, article are written positive
and negative things that are said about your kids, or
your husband or your wife, or your job or whatever.
Speaker 1 (14:08):
It's starring up the pot.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
Yeah, well, I think it's just being all of a sudden,
you go from not being famous to being people knowing
who the hell you are, and that's and having there's
good things with that, and there's negative things with that too.
Speaker 1 (14:23):
And about the friendships you used to be friends with
Lisa Rinna, I think you used to be friends with that.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
We would still be friends, Brenna and I if we
weren't on the show, so I believe.
Speaker 1 (14:32):
But that's interesting because you think that if a marriage
would have broken up, it would have broken up anyway.
So doesn't that mean that your friendship would have also
broken up?
Speaker 2 (14:40):
Because I think that you learn a lot about people
when you live with them, travel or work with them.
I hadn't never worked with Renna before. Okay, so we
worked on the same movie ironically my ex husband was
in it, but we didn't have a scene together. And
I didn't work with her even if.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
But I'm at least not in the machine also, and
I really connected with her and I really liked her.
And I think that the reality television space, or this
particular medium, it does crazy things to certain people. Some
people become a different person. And I see a difference
even in Lisa Rinnan. Now after being off the show,
(15:20):
there's a desperation that has calmed down, Like she's doing
a lot of fashion and it seems like she likes it.
And you're allowed to change and you're allowed to be
incial your daughters or models. But it felt like while
she was on the house was it was constant. She
was like addicted to she was definitely to something, to
messaging it to doing something. She seems different now to
(15:41):
me and before.
Speaker 2 (15:43):
Yeah, so I sorry, I take that as far as
for me personally. Would I think Aaron and I would
be married if we were on the show ten years
Absolutely do. I think the show itself, that environment could
change people if you allow it.
Speaker 1 (16:00):
Got it.
Speaker 2 (16:01):
So I do think that. You know, Lisa Renna didn't
have people kne who she was, but she didn't have
the fame she has now from that show.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
No, That's why I was saying, you're a different type
of actress. You had massive fame before and you still are.
Denise Richards, Lisa Kyle, they didn't have that kind of
fame in that Hollywood entertainment sphere that they do now.
And I I and like I said, I've always liked
Lisa Renna and I think she's I think fame in
this way, in that bubble can make you crazy because
(16:31):
you think you've seen fame overall. I think when you
have it here, you think everybody is talking about this thing.
My pup, Joe Joe Fritzo, our publicist, will say to me,
you know, understand, like this is one little world. There's
a whole world.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
Out there, and thank God for her for us with that.
Speaker 1 (16:46):
Right, She's like nobody knows what's going on about this?
Like only you, I've had things happening inside of Instagram
or TikTok, and I've thought it was real. And then
I'm talking to someone I'm selling a book to, like
what are you talking about? Or housewives stuff? We think
that this thing that's in this article. And Lisa was very,
very in tune with the machine. So anyway, I don't know.
You guys aren't friends now.
Speaker 2 (17:05):
But oh I will never be friends with her?
Speaker 1 (17:07):
Okay? And what about and you'd never be friends with
Brandy too?
Speaker 2 (17:11):
I was never friends with Brandy. I met her twice.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
Oh okay, got it? So okay?
Speaker 2 (17:17):
Because I was never friends with her?
Speaker 1 (17:19):
What you were never friends with Brandy? And it's funny
because it seemed on the show like that was such
a big deal to you. You seemed really stressed about it,
and now it seems like it wasn't a big Why
did you take the bait? Why didn't you just feel like,
what are you talking about? Who cares you? Well?
Speaker 2 (17:32):
You never know what airs.
Speaker 1 (17:34):
Right? But why would you just not take the bait?
Because I took the bait? Like meaning, why would you
just be like, okay, yeah, that all happened no problem.
Who cares? You know what I'm saying, Like on reality,
if you go into it and you talk about it,
do you seem like you care about it?
Speaker 2 (17:46):
But I was so when I said Bravo, Bravo whatever,
I was referring to something else with my daughter. Oh,
and I felt like, oh, here we go another dinner
where they're gonna come at me. I blurted something out.
That's why I said Bravo, Bravo. And I said, Okay,
you guys, I know you're going to come at me
(18:07):
for whatever. It was like every dinner that season that
they had something that I did wrong. I said, you
guys got to give me a second. So that's what
I was.
Speaker 1 (18:21):
Your daughter, Yeah, fascinating.
Speaker 2 (18:23):
And so I I said something I shouldn't have, something
very personal, And so then I took a breath and
it was like then you know they said all that,
and I was like, oh, for a.
Speaker 1 (18:36):
Fox's sake, why do you think they didn't include the
personal thing? You said? Why did they take that out?
Relevant to the story?
Speaker 2 (18:43):
Not relevant? I'm actually grateful that Bravo didn't. Okay, it
was had nothing to do with anything. It was. I
don't even want to get.
Speaker 1 (18:50):
Into this show. I just wanted to get some context.
Speaker 2 (18:55):
Rinna Garcel. I was friends with her before the show.
I will continue to be friends with her. I love her.
Speaker 1 (19:01):
She seems great.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
Sutton I became friends with after the show.
Speaker 1 (19:05):
But you just went back and did a guest spot.
And I said to Jill, I called, You'll, like, why
is she doing that? Because you're not being paid for
the whole season, yet they market it as if you
came back. It looks like you came back the way
that they manipulate with the marketing. So I was like,
why would she do that because I paid you something tiny.
Speaker 2 (19:20):
I showed up to go to Garceal's screening and I
didn't tell anyone I was going okay and except Garcel
and I just showed up. And so that's how that happened.
They didn't I didn't ask to be paid to go
to her screening. I didn't expect it. I was truly
going to support her and they were filming it, and
(19:44):
so after I went to the screening, they asked. She
called me the next day and asked me if I
would ever come do anything, and I said, if it's
with you, I would do it. And so then I
did a couple lunches and then at dinner, and that
was you know, it's been a big deal.
Speaker 1 (20:02):
No, but it's being marketed as if you're part of
the cast. To me, what watching the promos but you
don't care about.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
That, Mike whatever, Okay, I don't care, really don't.
Speaker 1 (20:13):
So you go back again.
Speaker 2 (20:16):
It depends on yeah. I mean I honestly my experience,
I did have a shitty experience with which I a
lot of it had. I hate saying this about but
it wasn't good with Lisa Renna, and it was sad
to me. I had a twenty year friendship with her
and to see how she could sacrifice a friendship of
(20:40):
twenty years for a show and that isn't going to
last forever. Obviously she's not on it anymore. That like,
at what cost? You know, I didn't see.
Speaker 1 (20:51):
I don't know exactly what you're talking about, but I
will tell you that people get programmed in a way
that they're in it for so long and they can't
see what's real and what's not. And your job on
that show, you are only there for.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
A little two seasons, right, Your.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
Job on that show is for every single thing to
come into the show, even if it's your sister, your mother.
That's why I.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
Don't understand that. The thing of it is, I think
it's okay for women to get along. It's okay to
watch us have fun. It's okay to have an escape
and watch the show and see like, oh, you know,
a bunch of women at our ages to have a
good time outside of husbands and kids to you know,
(21:33):
when do you go on a girls trip at I
haven't been on one since I was like in my
twenties with a group of girls, and so to see
a group of women to be able to have fun
in this, But then I think sometimes things get taken
too far.
Speaker 1 (21:48):
The thing is, it's because you and Kathy are examples
of people that came in for the same reason, like,
oh yeah, I'm a Hilton, but it's okay, it's gonna
be fun. We're gonna have fun. And Nikki and Paris
are like, what is she doing? And we're gonna have fun.
And it takes probably three seasons, I would say that
to get war like a worn and leather suitcase, where
(22:09):
now you're like the new car smell is off. It's
game time. You can't just be the fun new one.
You don't have the new car smell, and you've got
to like it's game time. You have to kill or
be killed.
Speaker 2 (22:20):
But that's what I don't understand, Like why do you
have to try to destroy people's lives and try to,
you know, find the worst dirt on people or.
Speaker 1 (22:30):
It's the name of that game, it's the name.
Speaker 2 (22:33):
Where I think that you could still watch name who's.
Speaker 1 (22:39):
On these shows that does a good job of floating
in the middle. That's not just a friend.
Speaker 2 (22:44):
About floating in the middle. I mean, you could obviously
have bad shit happened to you, but when there's.
Speaker 1 (22:50):
No I don't mean you to do somebody, but I mean.
Speaker 2 (22:53):
But you don't have to go out of your way
to do something bad to someone just to.
Speaker 1 (22:59):
I don't know, to create a history. I don't remember
the exactly it was a while back, and so of anyone.
Speaker 2 (23:06):
I'm just saying in general, like a lot of a
lot of the shows are people.
Speaker 1 (23:13):
This is happening to Lisa, this thing is happening, this
crazy thing. You're supposed to put it into the middle
because that's the name of that game, is what I'm saying.
That's happened with literally sisters, Kim, Kyle, Kathy. They throw
it in the middle because producers are in your ears
saying like, we have to talk about this. These other
people know this like it's a it's a it's a
mental game, like you gotta you know, it's just a
(23:35):
way that it goes.
Speaker 2 (23:36):
But if that's why it's no, I know, and that's
probably why I you know, it's for me left. Yeah,
for me, it was if someone were to come up
to me and say, we need you to bring this up.
If it was something I'm just hearing it for the
first time off camera, I'm not going to bring it up.
It's my place to say it. Else do it.
Speaker 1 (23:57):
That's you're good.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
Why would I do that? Yeah, you know, if they
bring it up and we talk about it, great, that's
the thing. If you get six to eight women together
and just let the women talk, you will get the
drama naturally.
Speaker 1 (24:13):
No, I that's but I think that would be good producing.
I think the low hanging fruit is taken over and
just do the thing that's going to be the most
salacious and talk about someone's infidelity, talk about someone's you know,
child that is not out of a closet yet, or
just like things that cross the line. But anyway, I'm
just was curious about your experience, which I'm so happy.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
I did have a good experience to hear, but why
did you have? But I also had a negative experience
because I didn't know. My experience with Lisa Renna was
so bad that I thought, Okay, what would happen next season?
Speaker 1 (24:48):
So why don't you go back now? Why don't you
go back now that she's gone?
Speaker 2 (24:52):
Well, I don't know. We'll see whatever happens.
Speaker 1 (24:54):
Oh, they might ask you about it.
Speaker 2 (24:55):
Interesting. I don't know if they'll ask me back. I
just did a few little episodes.
Speaker 1 (25:00):
I bet you they didn't even know that you were
interested in possibly going back.
Speaker 2 (25:03):
You know what, I didn't call to say, hey, can
I come back?
Speaker 1 (25:07):
No, I would have to come to you.
Speaker 2 (25:10):
But I mean, like, but even and I have no
ego either, I would.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
Yeah, if the ultimate irony of all of all time
will be what that I brokeer the deal to get
you back on the Housewife, that would be the ultimate irony.
But Bethany, well, this isn't this is awkward. This is awkward.
Bethany Uh suggested that we take Denny's back. We think
it's a great idea. Send my commission check via Jill Fritzo.
Speaker 2 (25:33):
Okay, after though my second season, I also because I
wanted it to be real, thought how would this make sense?
If all the women fucking hate me? How how would I.
Speaker 1 (25:45):
Do they hate you?
Speaker 2 (25:47):
Well almost everyone did, except for Garcel and Sutton, but
everyone else was such an asshole to me that I thought,
well that, how would it make sense for me to
go back? If?
Speaker 1 (26:00):
If it's not it makes sense Garcel would go for some reason.
Speaker 2 (26:03):
See that's where I'm you learn the process of what
the show leads and why I didn't think of it
as like a real job, which I should have, you know.
I just thought, Oh, we're just filming fun stuff or
or even you know, stuff that is dramatic or whatever.
You know, that's fine too, I don't. I don't care
if like that stuff comes up. It's more about trying
(26:24):
to pile on someone and take someone down, yeah, just
to deflect from what's going on in their life.
Speaker 1 (26:31):
Well there could it seem like you took some hits
for sure with the Bravo Bravo Bravo.
Speaker 2 (26:35):
So I'm oh that too. Those women they know, so
they fucked how on. How would I know about it?
They're the ones that told me to do that.
Speaker 1 (26:48):
Oh yeah, no, that they break the fourth wall. Now,
they used to know. There was a scene with Kelly
ben Simone where she kept going Matt, Matt, Matt, Matt, Matt, Matt, Matt,
the producer's name, because she wanted the scene to stop.
But they didn't air that because they used to not
break the fourth wall. They would never let the viewer
know that there's a camera p Yeah, I know. I
was told that your scene was one of the first
breaking of the fourth wall.
Speaker 2 (27:08):
Most women were wonderful at setting me up.
Speaker 1 (27:11):
That was that was the breaking of the fourth wall
for the first time that I saw. And then the
question is, what do you think? Do you know about
this thing that I've been doing, this reality reckoning that I.
Speaker 2 (27:32):
I I don't know. I've heard bits and pieces.
Speaker 1 (27:36):
It's just about that there is.
Speaker 2 (27:38):
I read the Vanity Fair article though before I got here.
Speaker 1 (27:41):
Oh what did you think of that? I mean, it's
not my article, it's not even I'm not.
Speaker 2 (27:45):
Sing anyone surprised by it. You were, Yeah, only because
I didn't understand the article.
Speaker 1 (27:52):
What do you mean?
Speaker 2 (27:53):
I didn't think there I'm just going to be brutally honest.
I didn't think there was new information. I didn't know
what the point of view of the article was because
leading out to it, I did see stuff on social
media that this big article was going to come out,
and then when I read it, I was quite surprised
(28:14):
by it.
Speaker 1 (28:14):
But Vanity Fair knows they left a lot of crumbs
on the floor.
Speaker 2 (28:18):
Everyone could have gotten suit.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
It has to do with lawsuits, but I think it
also has to do with Vanity Fair is owned by
Warner Brothers, who owns Shed Media, the company that was
being talked about in the article, Shed Media New York Housewives,
Shed Media, and Warner Brothers own Shed and Warner Brothers
owns Vanity Fair. Well, then why did the article get started?
(28:41):
I don't know. The reality reckoning is basically about exploitation,
meaning your relationship, your Bravo, Bravo, your situation, Brandy, exploitation,
the things that you risk and being in a show
like that versus scripted and not being compensated, so not
being really well compensated and no residuals. And it's funny
(29:04):
because I've taken heat, and first of all, I'm totally
right because brav has made many changes now with psychologists
and with drinking policies, and some of the diehard fans
are saying you bit the hand that fed you. I'm
saying something that's right, And if I wasn't right, Bravo
wouldn't be changing their policies, and other streamers that are
multi billion dollars wouldn't be scrambling to come to me
(29:24):
to ask me how they could possibly change or what
I'm doing. So it became bigger and I wasn't necessarily
looking for this job, but I'm not going to abandon
all these people that I said something like, you're the
only one who can help us. You're the only one
who can do this. So it became bigger than I intended.
To be honest with.
Speaker 2 (29:39):
You, Well, it's very brave of you to do.
Speaker 1 (29:43):
This, I guess it is.
Speaker 2 (29:44):
It seems like it is. You know, that's a lot
for you to take on.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
Yeah, because people suing will likely receive settlements and money,
and the class action will be money. But I'm not
one of these people. I'm not being paid by any
of this. I've only taken hits from it. But it
doesn't or what's important is important and I set it
and I backed it up. And all these women that
I asked you those some of those questions, because some
of these women that I thought were train wrecks on
television actually seem to be nice people that are raising
(30:12):
children that were played a role in that machine. They
played a role there. You know, they walked in vulnerable,
whether you like her or not. Like different people have
walked into that whether you like them or not. Some
of these people have walked into that franchise wounded birds
absolutely to play the wounded bird role. They were divorced,
they were cheated on, they were broke, and I think
(30:35):
that they weren't in the same position as I was
once I made money where I could walk out anytime.
Speaker 2 (30:39):
They feel desperate that they have to be exactly.
Speaker 1 (30:41):
You walked out. That's why you don't you feel like
you walked out. You can walk back in. It's your choice.
You don't need it, right, many women feel like they
needed and now it's the only place they can.
Speaker 2 (30:51):
Go exactly to make money. No, I get it.
Speaker 1 (30:53):
Yeah, So anyway, and having daughters, I'm sure you get that.
So what now what about being older vanity marriage? Like,
what is your life like now? And what's your sort
of what is your next.
Speaker 2 (31:07):
My life is great. I happily married. I love my husband.
I'm so grateful that I met him, and we are
so he's he's my best friend and so connected and
we're you know, I'm happy. My older girls are you know,
it's going into that chapter where the older girls are,
(31:30):
you know, starting to form their young adult life.
Speaker 1 (31:34):
And Aaron's close with the girls.
Speaker 2 (31:35):
Yeah, he's close with the girls. And you know we
have Eloise, she's twelve, so you know, things are things
are good.
Speaker 1 (31:43):
And Aaron didn't have kids coming into me and does
he want did he want?
Speaker 2 (31:47):
Yeah, well Elouise is now his kid.
Speaker 1 (31:51):
Feel you feel like this is your family.
Speaker 2 (31:52):
And you yeah, this is your family. Yeah, No, it's good.
I'm the type that likes to take That's why I also,
this job that I have is great. I was never
you know, had to know exactly where I need to be.
And I love the excitement of not knowing what job
I'm going to be doing, not knowing where I'm going
(32:13):
to film, not knowing who I'm going to be working with.
I like that about my career and I love that
part about my job. So I like to be able to,
you know, do different things.
Speaker 1 (32:24):
Yeah, I think I had insight into you because I
the woman who produces the show Amy Sugarman. She said,
if you want to talk to Denise, but I think
you're going to have to fly there because I don't
think she's going to fly in here. And I said,
because I had stuff going on right now and I
was going to fly in, but it was going to
be a month. You guys had said you could come
in November, so I said to I called Jill Fritzo
and I said, Jill's like famous now she.
Speaker 2 (32:45):
Hates so you don't just say Jill.
Speaker 1 (32:49):
I called you because literally Paul, my fiance, is like
so j so so Jill Fritzo. I called her and
I said, I have this feeling Denise and her husband
like they'd want to take a staycation in New York.
Like I just feel like they would come and be like,
let's put them in a nice hotel and like it
might be an experienced because I heart was like, I
don't think they're going to want to travel, and I
was like, I beectually she wouldn't.
Speaker 2 (33:09):
Want so why would they say that they don't know?
Speaker 1 (33:11):
I know. I just had a feeling like I'm the
type of person that once in a while I want
an excuse to go somewhere. So it's like, you don't
have to plan it yourself, you don't have to book
It is here, you know. And so I was right,
and I'm taking responsibility for the way that gorgeous. I'm
so happy, I'm really thrilled.
All right, so enter Housewives. When I went on Housewives,
they didn't want me because I had been on a
reality show before. It wasn't actress era. After me and
after my success, a different group was attracted of women
who wanted to use it to promote what they were
doing and monetize and it was just a different medium.
(00:33):
And Sarna and the other girl Eileen, and Kyle and
Garcel and then girls on Atlanta like actresses were now
on the show. But I don't think any no, I
know that none of the actresses were as successful as
you as an actress. Then coming into reality it seemed
like all the actresses, Okay and Richards, all the actresses
(00:55):
that came hadn't made it as an actress, so then
they were coming over to reality TV as their fame
success vehicle. So you're a different animal in this space
because you were very successful as an actress and then
you come into the Housewives, which is a questionable move
based on that. So what was that decision like and
(01:18):
what did it around you say, and what was dangled
in front of you by what I call the realm
to do it like this had to be an interesting decision.
Did you feel like you were at some low in
your career.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
Like no. So Lisa Renna mentioned it to me a
few years prior to me being on the show, and
I said, there's no way in how right? And then
she and I talked and I thought, you know what,
maybe this could be fun. It's something different, and Lisa
seems to have a good time on it. And it's
(01:52):
funny because when I joined the show, I never thought
of it as work. I thought of it as filming
moments with I thought was a friend with friends. And
you know, I thought this could be fun, it's something different.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
I was still like a documentary.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
Yeah, I just thought, all this could be fun. And
whatever I didn't I did not. I was not Again,
I wasn't educated on that show too much either. I
didn't understand the whole process and everything, which is good
and bad. I went into it so naively. Even though
Lisa Renna says that she shared, she shared some stuff,
(02:28):
but not a lot.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
No, and it couldn't have been a lot of money
at No.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
No, you don't. You don't do the show for the money.
On the show, you don't get paid.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
And when you don't start for the money, right, yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
Right, you get yeah, I meant the branding and stuff
like that that can come when you're on the show.
But I didn't do it because I couldn't pay the bills.
I did it because I thought this could be fun
and different and it's something I haven't done before.
Speaker 1 (02:56):
So, first of all, and in the first you just like,
just like Kathy Hilton, just like Brandy Glanville, just like
Liam McSweeney, you came in and had an amazing first season,
meaning everybody loved you didn't, but that's what happens with
most of these people. You know, she's cool, she's different,
et cetera. And then the whole thing the wheels come
off of bag and there's a crash and burn. And
(03:19):
I loved how you came in dressing like a normal
person does when they go on a balcony to somebody
else's hotel room. And we're in a hotel right now,
we're like not wearing a ball when I saw you
in jeans, Yeah, you weren't wearing a ball gown to
go to someone else's room. And that show of all
Beverly Hills, it's like it's costumes at all times. And
(03:39):
I saw I thought she looks normal, but you didn't
look normal within that sphere, and you know, you were
dressed like a normal person, like it's a reality show
in theory.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
That's what so yes, So when I met every all
the producers before I did the show, I went in
wearing jeans and a Guns and Roses T shirt and
I I did my hair makeup myself. I didn't have
a glam team, but I still looked, you know that
(04:12):
part put together ish. But I I said to them,
this is who I really am on the red carpet
and see I can be glammed up if I want to,
but if you want that, let me know, or do
you want if you want this? Then they were like,
(04:35):
we want you to be.
Speaker 1 (04:36):
You well because they and the audience would like want that.
But the other women crazy.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
And I was. I was surprised by that, like how
judgmental they were about my horn.
Speaker 1 (04:49):
Throw because that was that was the arc right.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
Before that that I looked like ship.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
Well, I'm sure, well that was the arc. The Erica
and Dorrie coming in, the Erica coming in and Dorry
changing with all the hairstyles was the arc in the
show where Kyle had different hairstyles. Lisa Wrenne was wearing
her short haircut and as sheath dress for years until
until then the costumes and the wigs and the whole
thing change. And if you look at Bravocon, it's like
(05:17):
an absolute costume party. It's changed.
Speaker 2 (05:21):
No, it's changed. And you know what, I like watching
it too, seeing, you know, I loved seeing what outfit
Deree was going to show up in. I was so
fascinated that she was like head to toe and all
that work.
Speaker 1 (05:32):
And I'm like, but you didn't want to be part
of it. But you didn't want to do that yourself because.
Speaker 2 (05:36):
That's not who I am. I wanted I do that
for an event. That's exactly how I am. Because for me,
it's work and I'll never forget this. Daurite said to me,
this is work, and I go, oh, well shit, you're right.
I didn't think of it that way. I just thought
of it as me going to dinner or lunch with girlfriends,
(05:57):
or being in the Bahamas wearing shorts, not going to
wear a freaking ball gown in the Bahamas. Yeah, at
a hotel. But she she was right in the sense
that this is work. So it's whatever image I suppose
that each women, each woman wants to put out there
(06:17):
of themselves, you know, how do they want to be perceived?
Speaker 1 (06:22):
But is it reality?
Speaker 2 (06:24):
Apparently not? I don't know.
Speaker 1 (06:26):
I mean, did it feel like it was based on reality?
Speaker 2 (06:29):
Well, for I don't know a lot of them outside
the show. So for me, I that's why I said
to the producers I'm involved in the show. I said,
I could be myself or I could be the actress
Denise Richards coming on and be glammed up the whole
time and treat it as if I'm filming a scripted
(06:50):
show playing a part. Wow, what I mean?
Speaker 1 (06:53):
No, I totally know what you mean. But the thing is,
how can you not do that when that's the game.
You can't walk onto the NF fell and decide to
play pee wee football. So now you're playing this game
and you're like, wait a second, I came on just
to play pee wee football, as we're all being real,
but like, here we are, it's the NFL. So how
am I not going to raise my game and my
airs bag right in the front of the camera shot
(07:14):
and you know, and wear ABCDFG letters everywhere all over
my body every minute of the Like, how do you
come in there? Without doing that otherwise.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
That's why I had to I had to make a decision,
and I said, I want to be myself, and myself
is I will go to lunch wearing jeans or if
I'm in the Bahamas, I'm wearing Schwartz. I'm not gonna
wear a ball gown unless they said wear a ball gown.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
Right. But the next season, it felt like you did
take it to another level because you seem like you
felt like the pressure.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
Not really, I still wore my jeans.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
Oh you, I feel like I thought it was a change.
Speaker 2 (07:55):
Actually, Kyle called me a ragamuffin in the second season,
so oh I still looked like a ragamuffin. But did I.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
That's what's crazy, Like did he Stritrid's bond girl is
a ragamuffin?
Speaker 2 (08:10):
I remember, I don't know if it aired or not.
When we were in the second season, we were in
Santa Barbara, I think, and they were talking about Teddy
and Kyle were talking about some shit about my clothes,
and I'm like, so what, like.
Speaker 1 (08:27):
Now, what.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
If I decided to get hair and makeup. I did
do that a few times when we weren't doing interviews.
I did get glam I'm like, well, who the fuck
wouldn't coming to dinner with you guys, Like I don't
want to look like.
Speaker 1 (08:40):
That's what I'm saying, shit ask Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
Okay, maybe I have my ship as jeans on, but
I don't want to have you feel I don't want
to look at myself on TV and look like a
piece of shit exactly.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
And the thing is, I was like you, I related
to you because I liked I'm all over I'm all
over social media looking like a piece of shit every
day because I look like a piece of shit most days,
I really do. I look like good when I'm being paid.
I'm being paid. I'm gonna put some makeup for me.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
It's work. Like my job since I was a teenager
has been. I can go to set wearing sweats, live
for it. You have a six am call, and you
get made up and get your wardrobe, and then when
I wrap, you know, sixteen hours later, I put my
(09:29):
sweats and drive home and.
Speaker 1 (09:30):
With the wipe in your hand to get the makeup. Yeah. Well,
by the way, that's exactly how I feel. You're damaging.
I mean, I have to be ridiculous. You're damaging your skin,
You're damaging your hair? Who wants to do that when
you don't have to?
Speaker 2 (09:40):
Well, a lot of times I would keep my makeup
on because I liked it, and I'm like, at least
I'll show up home looking cute.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
But but I meant my Aaron said, you always look
I'm getting amazing energy from Eron.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
No, he's such a good.
Speaker 1 (09:53):
Love love er all right, so without So that's why.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
I was like, do I treat this like a job
or do I treat this like a really reality? And I,
stupidly I think I guess treated it like reality.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
You would have been better back in the old school.
Jill zarren Nini Bethany like original things because we were
all I was wearing my like used sweater and we
were filming it in my literally at sweater. I bought
it could signed because I was broke. We were We
were in my studio Ikia designed department with like a
homemade set that they did the interviews. It wasn't so
what it is now, and I like that sloppiness. It
(10:29):
was what it was. It was real. We were real
people having real conversations and.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
Real comfortable and I also and that's and I wanted
to be myself and this was who I was, so
that's why I chose to just do that. Now. I
did do glam More my second season, but I didn't
dress in ball gowns.
Speaker 1 (10:49):
So was the whole experience? Did it hurt or help
your acting career?
Speaker 2 (10:53):
It didn't hurt my acting career, and I wasn't sure
how it would go, but it definitely amazing. Did so
going back to when I first signed on, did everyone
want me to do it?
Speaker 1 (11:06):
No?
Speaker 2 (11:08):
Some of my reps were like, absolutely not, and I said,
you know what, I'm gonna do it anyway. Fuck it,
it's and if it goes bad, then I'll take responsibility
for it. But because I also do think our business
is changing obviously. I mean, look at sometimes people are
hired for acting jobs based off of how many followers
(11:30):
they have on Instagram. So you have to also change
with the times too, if you want to stay relevant
and continue working. You know, I'm not believe it or not,
I'm not my twenties anymore, so I you know, have
to keep working.
Speaker 1 (11:47):
So it was a choice. It was like I got
pigot choice.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
I thought this could be fun, It's something different. I've
never done a show like this, before, and Lisa Renna
had talked so highly about it and wonderful oppera tunities
that she had from it. So that's why I thought,
why not Ultimately was it a good or bad experience?
It was ultimately a good experience. I actually have a
lot of fond memories. I have some rotten ones too,
(12:13):
but I have a lot of fond memories being on
that show.
Speaker 1 (12:16):
So do you think that it's possible to sustain relationships
on that show?
Speaker 2 (12:23):
Friendships or relationship any like?
Speaker 1 (12:24):
If you and Aaron were on that show for the
next ten years, would it be difficult?
Speaker 2 (12:28):
I think if a couple gets divorced, I think they
would have gotten divorced, regardless of being on reality show
or not. I think being on a reality show, though,
does highlight certain things, and maybe watching it you could
see yourself differently and be like, well, crap, I didn't
know I acted like that, or I didn't know he
or she acted like that. So I think that it
(12:50):
could highlight certain things. I do think there is pressure
from being you know, especially because I am an actress
and I have been in the public for so long.
I think some couples it's different for them because that's.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
New new territory.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
They become famous when they start doing the show. That
makes sense, and it's sometimes that's hard to navigate.
Speaker 1 (13:30):
And what about its effect on kids? What about your
kids being on the same thing because they've grown up
in the machine.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
My kids, they've grown up with, you know, God, very differently. Now.
Like I said, if if a family comes on these
shows and they've never experienced anything like that, that's where
I think it could be a little difficult to try
to navigate the challenges that come with people saying things
(13:57):
about you all of a sudden, article are written positive
and negative things that are said about your kids, or
your husband or your wife, or your job or whatever.
Speaker 1 (14:08):
It's starring up the pot.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
Yeah, well, I think it's just being all of a sudden,
you go from not being famous to being people knowing
who the hell you are, and that's and having there's
good things with that, and there's negative things with that too.
Speaker 1 (14:23):
And about the friendships you used to be friends with
Lisa Rinna, I think you used to be friends with that.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
We would still be friends, Brenna and I if we
weren't on the show, so I believe.
Speaker 1 (14:32):
But that's interesting because you think that if a marriage
would have broken up, it would have broken up anyway.
So doesn't that mean that your friendship would have also
broken up?
Speaker 2 (14:40):
Because I think that you learn a lot about people
when you live with them, travel or work with them.
I hadn't never worked with Renna before. Okay, so we
worked on the same movie ironically my ex husband was
in it, but we didn't have a scene together. And
I didn't work with her even if.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
But I'm at least not in the machine also, and
I really connected with her and I really liked her.
And I think that the reality television space, or this
particular medium, it does crazy things to certain people. Some
people become a different person. And I see a difference
even in Lisa Rinnan. Now after being off the show,
(15:20):
there's a desperation that has calmed down, Like she's doing
a lot of fashion and it seems like she likes it.
And you're allowed to change and you're allowed to be
incial your daughters or models. But it felt like while
she was on the house was it was constant. She
was like addicted to she was definitely to something, to
messaging it to doing something. She seems different now to
(15:41):
me and before.
Speaker 2 (15:43):
Yeah, so I sorry, I take that as far as
for me personally. Would I think Aaron and I would
be married if we were on the show ten years
Absolutely do. I think the show itself, that environment could
change people if you allow it.
Speaker 1 (16:00):
Got it.
Speaker 2 (16:01):
So I do think that. You know, Lisa Renna didn't
have people kne who she was, but she didn't have
the fame she has now from that show.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
No, That's why I was saying, you're a different type
of actress. You had massive fame before and you still are.
Denise Richards, Lisa Kyle, they didn't have that kind of
fame in that Hollywood entertainment sphere that they do now.
And I I and like I said, I've always liked
Lisa Renna and I think she's I think fame in
this way, in that bubble can make you crazy because
(16:31):
you think you've seen fame overall. I think when you
have it here, you think everybody is talking about this thing.
My pup, Joe Joe Fritzo, our publicist, will say to me,
you know, understand, like this is one little world. There's
a whole world.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
Out there, and thank God for her for us with that.
Speaker 1 (16:46):
Right, She's like nobody knows what's going on about this?
Like only you, I've had things happening inside of Instagram
or TikTok, and I've thought it was real. And then
I'm talking to someone I'm selling a book to, like
what are you talking about? Or housewives stuff? We think
that this thing that's in this article. And Lisa was very,
very in tune with the machine. So anyway, I don't know.
You guys aren't friends now.
Speaker 2 (17:05):
But oh I will never be friends with her?
Speaker 1 (17:07):
Okay? And what about and you'd never be friends with
Brandy too?
Speaker 2 (17:11):
I was never friends with Brandy. I met her twice.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
Oh okay, got it? So okay?
Speaker 2 (17:17):
Because I was never friends with her?
Speaker 1 (17:19):
What you were never friends with Brandy? And it's funny
because it seemed on the show like that was such
a big deal to you. You seemed really stressed about it,
and now it seems like it wasn't a big Why
did you take the bait? Why didn't you just feel like,
what are you talking about? Who cares you? Well?
Speaker 2 (17:32):
You never know what airs.
Speaker 1 (17:34):
Right? But why would you just not take the bait?
Because I took the bait? Like meaning, why would you
just be like, okay, yeah, that all happened no problem.
Who cares? You know what I'm saying, Like on reality,
if you go into it and you talk about it,
do you seem like you care about it?
Speaker 2 (17:46):
But I was so when I said Bravo, Bravo whatever,
I was referring to something else with my daughter. Oh,
and I felt like, oh, here we go another dinner
where they're gonna come at me. I blurted something out.
That's why I said Bravo, Bravo. And I said, Okay,
you guys, I know you're going to come at me
(18:07):
for whatever. It was like every dinner that season that
they had something that I did wrong. I said, you
guys got to give me a second. So that's what
I was.
Speaker 1 (18:21):
Your daughter, Yeah, fascinating.
Speaker 2 (18:23):
And so I I said something I shouldn't have, something
very personal, And so then I took a breath and
it was like then you know they said all that,
and I was like, oh, for a.
Speaker 1 (18:36):
Fox's sake, why do you think they didn't include the
personal thing? You said? Why did they take that out?
Relevant to the story?
Speaker 2 (18:43):
Not relevant? I'm actually grateful that Bravo didn't. Okay, it
was had nothing to do with anything. It was. I
don't even want to get.
Speaker 1 (18:50):
Into this show. I just wanted to get some context.
Speaker 2 (18:55):
Rinna Garcel. I was friends with her before the show.
I will continue to be friends with her. I love her.
Speaker 1 (19:01):
She seems great.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
Sutton I became friends with after the show.
Speaker 1 (19:05):
But you just went back and did a guest spot.
And I said to Jill, I called, You'll, like, why
is she doing that? Because you're not being paid for
the whole season, yet they market it as if you
came back. It looks like you came back the way
that they manipulate with the marketing. So I was like,
why would she do that because I paid you something tiny.
Speaker 2 (19:20):
I showed up to go to Garceal's screening and I
didn't tell anyone I was going okay and except Garcel
and I just showed up. And so that's how that happened.
They didn't I didn't ask to be paid to go
to her screening. I didn't expect it. I was truly
going to support her and they were filming it, and
(19:44):
so after I went to the screening, they asked. She
called me the next day and asked me if I
would ever come do anything, and I said, if it's
with you, I would do it. And so then I
did a couple lunches and then at dinner, and that
was you know, it's been a big deal.
Speaker 1 (20:02):
No, but it's being marketed as if you're part of
the cast. To me, what watching the promos but you
don't care about.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
That, Mike whatever, Okay, I don't care, really don't.
Speaker 1 (20:13):
So you go back again.
Speaker 2 (20:16):
It depends on yeah. I mean I honestly my experience,
I did have a shitty experience with which I a
lot of it had. I hate saying this about but
it wasn't good with Lisa Renna, and it was sad
to me. I had a twenty year friendship with her
and to see how she could sacrifice a friendship of
(20:40):
twenty years for a show and that isn't going to
last forever. Obviously she's not on it anymore. That like,
at what cost? You know, I didn't see.
Speaker 1 (20:51):
I don't know exactly what you're talking about, but I
will tell you that people get programmed in a way
that they're in it for so long and they can't
see what's real and what's not. And your job on
that show, you are only there for.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
A little two seasons, right, Your.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
Job on that show is for every single thing to
come into the show, even if it's your sister, your mother.
That's why I.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
Don't understand that. The thing of it is, I think
it's okay for women to get along. It's okay to
watch us have fun. It's okay to have an escape
and watch the show and see like, oh, you know,
a bunch of women at our ages to have a
good time outside of husbands and kids to you know,
(21:33):
when do you go on a girls trip at I
haven't been on one since I was like in my
twenties with a group of girls, and so to see
a group of women to be able to have fun
in this, But then I think sometimes things get taken
too far.
Speaker 1 (21:48):
The thing is, it's because you and Kathy are examples
of people that came in for the same reason, like,
oh yeah, I'm a Hilton, but it's okay, it's gonna
be fun. We're gonna have fun. And Nikki and Paris
are like, what is she doing? And we're gonna have fun.
And it takes probably three seasons, I would say that
to get war like a worn and leather suitcase, where
(22:09):
now you're like the new car smell is off. It's
game time. You can't just be the fun new one.
You don't have the new car smell, and you've got
to like it's game time. You have to kill or
be killed.
Speaker 2 (22:20):
But that's what I don't understand, Like why do you
have to try to destroy people's lives and try to,
you know, find the worst dirt on people or.
Speaker 1 (22:30):
It's the name of that game, it's the name.
Speaker 2 (22:33):
Where I think that you could still watch name who's.
Speaker 1 (22:39):
On these shows that does a good job of floating
in the middle. That's not just a friend.
Speaker 2 (22:44):
About floating in the middle. I mean, you could obviously
have bad shit happened to you, but when there's.
Speaker 1 (22:50):
No I don't mean you to do somebody, but I mean.
Speaker 2 (22:53):
But you don't have to go out of your way
to do something bad to someone just to.
Speaker 1 (22:59):
I don't know, to create a history. I don't remember
the exactly it was a while back, and so of anyone.
Speaker 2 (23:06):
I'm just saying in general, like a lot of a
lot of the shows are people.
Speaker 1 (23:13):
This is happening to Lisa, this thing is happening, this
crazy thing. You're supposed to put it into the middle
because that's the name of that game, is what I'm saying.
That's happened with literally sisters, Kim, Kyle, Kathy. They throw
it in the middle because producers are in your ears
saying like, we have to talk about this. These other
people know this like it's a it's a it's a
mental game, like you gotta you know, it's just a
(23:35):
way that it goes.
Speaker 2 (23:36):
But if that's why it's no, I know, and that's
probably why I you know, it's for me left. Yeah,
for me, it was if someone were to come up
to me and say, we need you to bring this up.
If it was something I'm just hearing it for the
first time off camera, I'm not going to bring it up.
It's my place to say it. Else do it.
Speaker 1 (23:57):
That's you're good.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
Why would I do that? Yeah, you know, if they
bring it up and we talk about it, great, that's
the thing. If you get six to eight women together
and just let the women talk, you will get the
drama naturally.
Speaker 1 (24:13):
No, I that's but I think that would be good producing.
I think the low hanging fruit is taken over and
just do the thing that's going to be the most
salacious and talk about someone's infidelity, talk about someone's you know,
child that is not out of a closet yet, or
just like things that cross the line. But anyway, I'm
just was curious about your experience, which I'm so happy.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
I did have a good experience to hear, but why
did you have? But I also had a negative experience
because I didn't know. My experience with Lisa Renna was
so bad that I thought, Okay, what would happen next season?
Speaker 1 (24:48):
So why don't you go back now? Why don't you
go back now that she's gone?
Speaker 2 (24:52):
Well, I don't know. We'll see whatever happens.
Speaker 1 (24:54):
Oh, they might ask you about it.
Speaker 2 (24:55):
Interesting. I don't know if they'll ask me back. I
just did a few little episodes.
Speaker 1 (25:00):
I bet you they didn't even know that you were
interested in possibly going back.
Speaker 2 (25:03):
You know what, I didn't call to say, hey, can
I come back?
Speaker 1 (25:07):
No, I would have to come to you.
Speaker 2 (25:10):
But I mean, like, but even and I have no
ego either, I would.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
Yeah, if the ultimate irony of all of all time
will be what that I brokeer the deal to get
you back on the Housewife, that would be the ultimate irony.
But Bethany, well, this isn't this is awkward. This is awkward.
Bethany Uh suggested that we take Denny's back. We think
it's a great idea. Send my commission check via Jill Fritzo.
Speaker 2 (25:33):
Okay, after though my second season, I also because I
wanted it to be real, thought how would this make sense?
If all the women fucking hate me? How how would I.
Speaker 1 (25:45):
Do they hate you?
Speaker 2 (25:47):
Well almost everyone did, except for Garcel and Sutton, but
everyone else was such an asshole to me that I thought,
well that, how would it make sense for me to
go back? If?
Speaker 1 (26:00):
If it's not it makes sense Garcel would go for some reason.
Speaker 2 (26:03):
See that's where I'm you learn the process of what
the show leads and why I didn't think of it
as like a real job, which I should have, you know.
I just thought, Oh, we're just filming fun stuff or
or even you know, stuff that is dramatic or whatever.
You know, that's fine too, I don't. I don't care
if like that stuff comes up. It's more about trying
(26:24):
to pile on someone and take someone down, yeah, just
to deflect from what's going on in their life.
Speaker 1 (26:31):
Well there could it seem like you took some hits
for sure with the Bravo Bravo Bravo.
Speaker 2 (26:35):
So I'm oh that too. Those women they know, so
they fucked how on. How would I know about it?
They're the ones that told me to do that.
Speaker 1 (26:48):
Oh yeah, no, that they break the fourth wall. Now,
they used to know. There was a scene with Kelly
ben Simone where she kept going Matt, Matt, Matt, Matt, Matt, Matt, Matt,
the producer's name, because she wanted the scene to stop.
But they didn't air that because they used to not
break the fourth wall. They would never let the viewer
know that there's a camera p Yeah, I know. I
was told that your scene was one of the first
breaking of the fourth wall.
Speaker 2 (27:08):
Most women were wonderful at setting me up.
Speaker 1 (27:11):
That was that was the breaking of the fourth wall
for the first time that I saw. And then the
question is, what do you think? Do you know about
this thing that I've been doing, this reality reckoning that I.
Speaker 2 (27:32):
I I don't know. I've heard bits and pieces.
Speaker 1 (27:36):
It's just about that there is.
Speaker 2 (27:38):
I read the Vanity Fair article though before I got here.
Speaker 1 (27:41):
Oh what did you think of that? I mean, it's
not my article, it's not even I'm not.
Speaker 2 (27:45):
Sing anyone surprised by it. You were, Yeah, only because
I didn't understand the article.
Speaker 1 (27:52):
What do you mean?
Speaker 2 (27:53):
I didn't think there I'm just going to be brutally honest.
I didn't think there was new information. I didn't know
what the point of view of the article was because
leading out to it, I did see stuff on social
media that this big article was going to come out,
and then when I read it, I was quite surprised
(28:14):
by it.
Speaker 1 (28:14):
But Vanity Fair knows they left a lot of crumbs
on the floor.
Speaker 2 (28:18):
Everyone could have gotten suit.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
It has to do with lawsuits, but I think it
also has to do with Vanity Fair is owned by
Warner Brothers, who owns Shed Media, the company that was
being talked about in the article, Shed Media New York Housewives,
Shed Media, and Warner Brothers own Shed and Warner Brothers
owns Vanity Fair. Well, then why did the article get started?
(28:41):
I don't know. The reality reckoning is basically about exploitation,
meaning your relationship, your Bravo, Bravo, your situation, Brandy, exploitation,
the things that you risk and being in a show
like that versus scripted and not being compensated, so not
being really well compensated and no residuals. And it's funny
(29:04):
because I've taken heat, and first of all, I'm totally
right because brav has made many changes now with psychologists
and with drinking policies, and some of the diehard fans
are saying you bit the hand that fed you. I'm
saying something that's right, And if I wasn't right, Bravo
wouldn't be changing their policies, and other streamers that are
multi billion dollars wouldn't be scrambling to come to me
(29:24):
to ask me how they could possibly change or what
I'm doing. So it became bigger and I wasn't necessarily
looking for this job, but I'm not going to abandon
all these people that I said something like, you're the
only one who can help us. You're the only one
who can do this. So it became bigger than I intended.
To be honest with.
Speaker 2 (29:39):
You, Well, it's very brave of you to do.
Speaker 1 (29:43):
This, I guess it is.
Speaker 2 (29:44):
It seems like it is. You know, that's a lot
for you to take on.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
Yeah, because people suing will likely receive settlements and money,
and the class action will be money. But I'm not
one of these people. I'm not being paid by any
of this. I've only taken hits from it. But it
doesn't or what's important is important and I set it
and I backed it up. And all these women that
I asked you those some of those questions, because some
of these women that I thought were train wrecks on
television actually seem to be nice people that are raising
(30:12):
children that were played a role in that machine. They
played a role there. You know, they walked in vulnerable,
whether you like her or not. Like different people have
walked into that whether you like them or not. Some
of these people have walked into that franchise wounded birds
absolutely to play the wounded bird role. They were divorced,
they were cheated on, they were broke, and I think
(30:35):
that they weren't in the same position as I was
once I made money where I could walk out anytime.
Speaker 2 (30:39):
They feel desperate that they have to be exactly.
Speaker 1 (30:41):
You walked out. That's why you don't you feel like
you walked out. You can walk back in. It's your choice.
You don't need it, right, many women feel like they
needed and now it's the only place they can.
Speaker 2 (30:51):
Go exactly to make money. No, I get it.
Speaker 1 (30:53):
Yeah, So anyway, and having daughters, I'm sure you get that.
So what now what about being older vanity marriage? Like,
what is your life like now? And what's your sort
of what is your next.
Speaker 2 (31:07):
My life is great. I happily married. I love my husband.
I'm so grateful that I met him, and we are
so he's he's my best friend and so connected and
we're you know, I'm happy. My older girls are you know,
it's going into that chapter where the older girls are,
(31:30):
you know, starting to form their young adult life.
Speaker 1 (31:34):
And Aaron's close with the girls.
Speaker 2 (31:35):
Yeah, he's close with the girls. And you know we
have Eloise, she's twelve, so you know, things are things
are good.
Speaker 1 (31:43):
And Aaron didn't have kids coming into me and does
he want did he want?
Speaker 2 (31:47):
Yeah, well Elouise is now his kid.
Speaker 1 (31:51):
Feel you feel like this is your family.
Speaker 2 (31:52):
And you yeah, this is your family. Yeah, No, it's good.
I'm the type that likes to take That's why I also,
this job that I have is great. I was never
you know, had to know exactly where I need to be.
And I love the excitement of not knowing what job
I'm going to be doing, not knowing where I'm going
(32:13):
to film, not knowing who I'm going to be working with.
I like that about my career and I love that
part about my job. So I like to be able to,
you know, do different things.
Speaker 1 (32:24):
Yeah, I think I had insight into you because I
the woman who produces the show Amy Sugarman. She said,
if you want to talk to Denise, but I think
you're going to have to fly there because I don't
think she's going to fly in here. And I said,
because I had stuff going on right now and I
was going to fly in, but it was going to
be a month. You guys had said you could come
in November, so I said to I called Jill Fritzo
and I said, Jill's like famous now she.
Speaker 2 (32:45):
Hates so you don't just say Jill.
Speaker 1 (32:49):
I called you because literally Paul, my fiance, is like
so j so so Jill Fritzo. I called her and
I said, I have this feeling Denise and her husband
like they'd want to take a staycation in New York.
Like I just feel like they would come and be like,
let's put them in a nice hotel and like it
might be an experienced because I heart was like, I
don't think they're going to want to travel, and I
was like, I beectually she wouldn't.
Speaker 2 (33:09):
Want so why would they say that they don't know?
Speaker 1 (33:11):
I know. I just had a feeling like I'm the
type of person that once in a while I want
an excuse to go somewhere. So it's like, you don't
have to plan it yourself, you don't have to book
It is here, you know. And so I was right,
and I'm taking responsibility for the way that gorgeous. I'm
so happy, I'm really thrilled.
Host
Bethenny Frankel
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