October 27, 2020 • 38 mins
On cocktails and finding your calling.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:12):
Hey, everyone, Welcome to another exciting and riveting episode of
Just Be. There is a very pressing important issue that
I need to communicate to you about, and it's about
paper straws. Paper straws, paper straws. Sometimes you'll be at
(00:36):
a coffee place or a Starbucks and like you'll just
open that straw and it's a plastic straw, and it's
like you've sort of gotten the the golden ticket. You
are in Charlie and the chocolate factory and you're like,
holy shit, I hope no one sees I fucking got
the plastic straw. Like maybe one. It's like when you
get one random sprinkle and like a plane vanilla ice cream.
Just something happened. There was a plastic straw just like
(00:56):
thought like that, like I don't know, made it onto
a conveyor belt into the store and I've just got
one of the last surviving plastic straws. The thing is,
we do have to pick our spots, and I do
when I get when I take food in and I
have those plastic containers, I always reuse them. That's where
my daughter's crayons live. That's where I have little gadgets
or buttons. I organize everything in there. Maybe those little
(01:19):
clips that are at your desk, if you just they're
just messing up. So I'm a big person of trying
to recycle what I can. So I was thinking, though, Um,
so I use my plastic credit card to pay for
the drink at Starbucks, and I haven't gotten it yet,
but I'm sure that I will get plastic surgery at
(01:42):
some point. There are plastic containers in my kitchen cabinet,
there are plastic materials in my car that I drive
to go to Starbucks. I bought some Halloween decorations and
there's plastic on them. Some commercials say plastic makes it
possible based on the fact that I've just explained to
you just a small portion of my day. I mean,
(02:04):
I'm looking at keys on my daughter's computer. I actually
think that might be made of plastic. So I just
want to fucking know. Oh, I have a water bottle
here that's gonna make me be green because I'm not
gonna use plastic water bottles. But the truth the matter
is the top of it that holds in the bottom,
that insulated bottle. It's plastic. It came with a metal straw,
which I have plied, and I do buy my own straws,
(02:26):
and I will, if I think of it, put my
own straws into my daughter's lunch box and bring it
with me into my purse. I'm in my daughter's room.
There's like a light up, amazing modern bunny and it
it looks like it's made of plastic. So we are
drawing the line at straws. It's Starbucks. And the truth
of the matter is I think I would use a
(02:49):
paper credit card if I could, and I would, you know,
use paper to wrap my makeup brushes. But I really
just I don't like the straw. I don't like into
my mouth. I don't like it feels soggy. It's like
this fucking limp dick that's just like started off hard
when I started drinking the drink and two SIPs in
(03:09):
and I can't even The thing is, I can't even
drink the rest of the drink. Like it's not like
I don't want to be green or anything. I can't
finish the drink that I've purchased in a plastic cup,
by the way, that has a paper straw in it.
I can't finish the fucking drink because of the paper straw.
It's now folded over, and I often take the time
to like rip off the top and then get some
like fresh blood, so like underneath that that part hasn't
(03:30):
been so wilted. But I just want to know, like,
if we're gonna do this thing, we gotta go all
the way because I just don't feel like we're making
a big enough difference if we're just gonna just just
draw the line at the plastic straw. I want to
know the difference that the paper straws have made. I
want to know, like, I just want to know the
(03:51):
impact of the paper straw switch. How big that has been,
has it sort of is it going to be like
in the time, you know, top one greatest moments of
the paper straw switch. I just want to understand. So
I'm asking you guys to point me in the direction
of some data or statistics because I haven't seen any yet.
Let me know on my Instagram or at just be
(04:14):
with Bethany and what else can we do from plastic
to paper. Today is my conversation with Hillary Clinton. The
magnitude is not lost on me. She has accomplished so
much since the very beginning of our life. She has
really just never ever stopped fighting and persevering and moving forward.
(04:39):
So this is a pretty exciting conversation for me very
early on in this podcast. I think it really provides
the essence of what this show is about, which is
to humanize someone that you may not know that well
at all. Hi. Hell oh, bethany how are you um?
(05:03):
So excited and just humbled and taking it in? And
thank you so much. I honestly, your your time is
so valuable and I wanted to tell you what the
podcast is and you agreed blindly without asking for a question. Yes,
But are you having fun? Are you having fun doing this? I? Yes,
(05:26):
I could not love it more. I find it liberating.
What do you How do you feel about it doing it?
I feel great? You know. I never would have thought
that I would be here in my attic of my house,
and you know, with my new podcast, you and me
both talking to fabulous people about everything under the sun,
and I am Maybe it's because we're all at home
(05:48):
and and you know, we're kind of looking for substitutes
for what we can't do, like go out and see
people and have meals together and all of that. But
I love it. I know it's so freeing. And I
I see that you're in casual clothes too. I usually
I'm at home and I wear pajamas and then I
shower prior because I feel like it's respectful to the guests.
The shower and put a little perfume on. But just
(06:10):
so your listeners know, you've got a Snoopy T shirt on,
which is adorable. Well, my my team was wondering if
anyone's ever interviewed you in a Snoopy T shirt, and
they all suspected probably not. I think this is the
first and and and Snoopy looks like he's going to,
you know, be an astronaut or something. As I can,
(06:32):
I'm trying to make it out here. Yes, Well, my
teammate is Corey, and he's gay, and he says this
looks like a gay Snoopy that, so I think he
might be a gay Snoopy. And here he is, so
it looks like there's like a gay flag behind Snoopy
exactly like that. So this is just me with Bethany
and the filter here is game Changers, Mavericks. Fearlessness started
(06:55):
from the bottom. Now we're here and I want to
know how you agree need to do this. We are
two weeks into doing this and we get an email
that we all stopped and we started screaming. Am I
sitting down? I said why? And your email was read
and and and what made you decide to do this? Well,
now that I'm doing my own podcast, I've been listening
(07:17):
to podcasts and I find them fascinating because they run
the gamut. And I listened to a couple of your
podcasts and I just really loved your freewheeling, kind of
open ended conversations with people that were, like Mark Cuban,
for example, you know, we're you know, we're really intriguing.
(07:37):
And so I thought, wow, I'd love to talk with
Bethany because I'd love to have the experience of being
interviewed by her as I am kind of putting together
my own podcasting expertise, so to speak. Fabulous. All right, well,
that's thrilling, and you know that I think you're you'll,
I mean, we've done well, but I think that that
(07:59):
you're doing this will put me on the map. And
so do you realize the currency you have just being you,
the actual power and currency just your influence to just
decide to do something and it could change somebody else's
entire life. You know, I don't think about it like that.
I do feel a sense of obligation in a way,
because there are a lot of people who follow me
(08:21):
or you know, look up to me, or in this case,
listen to my podcast. I want to be a positive force,
you know what I mean. I want to be somebody
who can help people, and especially now we're going through
this common trauma of this terrible pandemic and then the
you know, racial reckoning and economic catastrophe that so many
(08:42):
people are suffering. There's a lot of pain out there,
and so I'm trying in my own way to you know,
lift people up and give them some idea of you know,
what they could do that would make their lives better
despite all the challenges. Do you feel that that are
becoming even more and more authentic as you dig deeper
(09:04):
into who you are and seeing it play out in
front of everyone. For example, you know, I watched the
documentary and it gave me such a greater sense of
who you actually are. But who people think we are
and who we actually are, you know, is sometimes so
vastly different. And so I thought to myself, if aliens
(09:24):
landed on Earth and the first person they met was you,
and they said, who are you and what do you do?
What would you say? Well, I would say that, you know,
I'm somebody who has um always felt like I had
a mission or a purpose to make the most out
of my own life and also to give back. I've
(09:46):
been really lucky in lots of ways with the you know,
family I was born into and the opportunities that I've
been given, and I've worked really hard, and so I
feel like I'm kind of on this earth to try
to make things better for people who don't have those
advantages that I've been given. And you know, the word authentic,
which gets thrown around a lot. I mean, I feel
(10:07):
like I've been exactly the same person in my entire life,
but I'm really well aware of how, you know, public
perceptions and then being in public life and being in
political life, how sometimes that is not an opening but
a barrier to people really seeing you, are getting to
(10:29):
know you. And so I accept that, you know, it's
there's so many things I want to say about that,
because in thinking about your life and career and having
to be sort of like that video game Frog or
bobbing and weaving in and out of traffic. In many ways,
it's don't hate the player paid the game because you
wanted to get into the White House to be able
to affect more change, and you were so ahead of
(10:51):
everybody else, protesting and thinking about things that most women
weren't even thinking about then. But you have to somehow
navigate that because you have to find a way. You
can't just jump in like I'm here, do it my way. Well,
that's exactly right. I mean, part of the the challenge is,
especially when you're a woman, is understanding enough about who
you are and what you're trying to achieve, but also
(11:13):
recognizing that, you know, there's still this gigantic double standard.
It's just out there, and you know, we we are
still judged on a different set of criteria than men
in public life, or men in business, or men in academia,
you just name it, men anywhere. There is still a
different set of expectations. And so I've been first in
(11:36):
a lot of areas, so I've had to kind of
go into the you know, go into the traffic and
try to figure out how I was going to maneuver
it and get through it. And you know, people are
sitting there saying, well, I don't think she's doing that right,
or you know, I don't like her hair, I don't know,
I don't like this or that because it's new and
it's unusual and everybody has to kind of figure out
(11:58):
what it means. So yeah, I I know that there's
a you know, there's a still a big burden on
a lot of women in the public arena that we
have to just keep pushing forward with well we have
in common that we're polarizing people. And in watching your documentary,
(12:19):
it seems like you don't live in the love and
you don't live in the hate like you don't you know,
you don't bask in the love, but you don't do
you don't self deprecate in the hate exactly. I think
that's a great way to put it. I mean, because
you know, just like you, you have people who uh
just adore you and follow you and you know, model
themselves after you. And then you've got people who gripe
(12:41):
and and complain and and critique you. And you know,
just like most things, you can't get pushed to the extremes.
You can't believe, you know, all the adulation and the
best about yourself and you certainly should not buy into
all the negativity and the hate and all the rest
that goes with the critics. So you have to chart
(13:01):
your own course, and you know, at the end of
the day, that's all you can do. You can just
be who you are, for better, for worse, and you know,
good times and bad. You just be who you are,
and the people who get you will get you, and
they'll know that you, like them, are an imperfect human being.
You know, you you you don't walk on water. You
do the best you can to get through the day
(13:23):
to you know, be fair and good to people around
you and all the rest. But at the at the
end of it, you gotta be you know, you've gotta
be happy and satisfied with yourself. Yes, And right now
I feel that it's more confining and more constricting than
ever because you can't you don't know what you can
and can't say, and you're not allowed to make a mistake.
(13:45):
And part of the reason I wanted to do this
podcast right now this way is because I have to
be able to say what my opinion is and if
there's a forum and people disagree with it, okay, let's
have a conversation, but people aren't having conversations. Yeah, I
think that that is uh, you know, really an unfortunate
development is that you know, there, Look, there are some
(14:06):
people who they're not interested in conversation. They're just interested
in dominating what you're supposed to believe and what you're
supposed to say from you know, all kinds of directions.
It's not just coming from one side, it's coming from degrees.
And so there are people who are trying to just
I think, stifle conversation if you don't agree with them,
(14:26):
and I think that's terrible. I think it's divisive. I
think it doesn't lead to good decision making. I mean,
you know, yeah, look, there are some people who believe
things that I find abhorrent. I'm not interested in having
a conversation with them. I don't think you are either.
But there's a whole lot of other people who, you know,
they have differences of opinion based on their own experiences,
and you should be able to have a conversation. But
(14:47):
we're going through a period of time where everybody is
really on edge, and I think a lot of it
has to do, you know, with the pandemic, with the
terrible killings of George Floyd and others. There's a lot
of tension and you know, anxiety and anguish in the world.
The economic crisis has devastated people. There's just there's so
much tension that people are are afraid to have a
(15:10):
conversation because they're not sure they can take much more.
Does that make sense? And it's it's I'm mad as hell,
and I'm not going to take this anymore. People are
also stuck in their homes, so it's an idle mind
as a devil's playground, and people are just angry and
they want to have this conversation. Not a conversation though
it's I'm right, you're wrong, now what Okay? So it's
a zero sum game and I find that to be
(15:31):
a problem. And sometimes I watch social media and I'm thinking,
it's okay if you disagree with me, I disagree with you,
but let's yeah, so that we we agree on that.
I really I like it that I like you. You
you pointed out, you know, the problem with a zero
sum game, and I agree with you completely. Right now,
(15:52):
there's too much of a zero sum game going on,
and it's like, you know, I can only win if
you lose. No, wait a minute, you know what, I
think there's a way that Yeah, maybe we wouldn't get
everything we want, but we'd sure make some you know,
good changes together if we would actually listen to each other.
That is now considered you know, unacceptable. It's my way
(16:12):
or no way, and I just we You can't run
a society, especially a democracy, if you're not listening to
people and trying to find common ground. You may reject
it after the effort and say no, you know that's
not gonna work. I don't I don't believe that, or
I can't go along with that. But the effort is
really important. You want to understand why someone feels that way,
(16:34):
even if you don't agree with that that. You want to
understand where that thought process controvers saying you're a jerk,
I disagree with you by yeah, okay, yeah yeah, and
walk away. I'm not talking to you anymore. Exactly. That's
exactly you said before that you felt that you had
(16:57):
a mission, and did you feel inside of you like, well,
I thought this something. I have this special thing and
I'm not sure what it is, but I'm going to
take this thing all the way. Did you feel that,
you know, I did, Bethany, and I think I thought
a lot about you know, why I chose some of
the paths I took. And I really go back to
(17:18):
my mother, you know, who was a major influence in
my life. And she had a really, really bad childhood.
She was basically neglected and abandoned and pretty much out
on her own. And by the time she was thirteen,
she was working in somebody else's home. She was being
a babysitter and a housekeeper. And as I learned about that,
I didn't know it when I was a little kid,
(17:40):
but as I became a teenager, I just felt really
drawn to trying to figure out how I could help kids.
That was my main driver, particularly neglected and abused kids,
poor kids, sick kids. And I really believe it was
in large measure because I would imagine, you know, my
mother's life now. She she had some moments and I
(18:01):
asked her this once. I said, how did you get
through that? Because it was so grim, and she said,
along the way, somebody would be kind to me. So,
for example, when she was in first grade, she never
had any she never brought any food to school. She
had to wear the same clothes every day, etcetera. And
her first grade teacher noticed because they used in those days,
I was a long time ago, in like the nineteen twenties,
(18:23):
you know, they would eat at their desk in their classroom,
and she noticed that my mother never brought any food,
and so a few days went behind, the teacher came
and said to my mother, you know, Dorothy, um, I
just brought too much food today. I can't I can't
eat at all. Would you like it? And it was
never embarrassing or humiliating. It was totally out of kindness.
(18:46):
Or you know, fast forward to when my mother was
working in somebody else's home and she she couldn't go
to high school because she had to work and she
couldn't her grandparents had thrown her out. And uh so
the mother the house said, you know, Dorothy, if you
would like to go to high school, if you get
up early and you finish your work, you should go
to high school. And you know, I think about a
(19:07):
thirteen year old being put in that position and breaks
my heart. But for my mother it was kindness. So
my mother would get up early and she would run
to school and she would run back and she would
do her other chores and you know, you think about
just the small things. You're talking about people who are
at home, just the small things that make a huge
difference in somebody's lives. So, like, fifty years later, my
(19:29):
mother is telling me about her first grade teacher and
the woman whose house she worked in, because those two
people showed kindness to her. So I think, you know,
that was really what motivated me to go to work
for the Children's Defense Fund and work on you know,
kids issues. In the early part of my career. I
think about your journey and the sort of bobbing and
(19:51):
weaving of you and can I Bill? I mean, what
did I call him? Bill? Okay? Well it sounds like
such like a regular name now and I say it
out loud, my joll Phil Okay. So you and Bill
are sort of, you know, switching positions in you know,
you you were the supporting character and then he was
a supporting character in the film. And I wonder, do
(20:13):
you think you would have gone as far as you
have without him? And do you think that he would
have gone all the way without you? Or do you
think it was a sum is greater than its parts thing?
I think it was the sum is greater than the parts.
I mean, you know, when when I met him, Um,
I had no idea back in law school, you know
that he would end up being president. But he was charismatic,
(20:36):
and he was really smart, and he was funny, and
you know, we just really hit it off. And so
are you know, our time together we were married forty
five years as of uh, you know, October the eleventh.
Our time together has been really mutually supportive, and you're right.
At some points, you know, I did more to support him.
(20:58):
At other points, he did more to support me, but
not just in the public way, you know, in the
in you know, the really personal way. When you know
a parent dies or there's some other tragedy in your life,
you know, to have somebody by your side who kind
of knows the whole history and can be there supporting
you and vice versa. Yeah, I mean that's amazing. And
(21:21):
then we had you know, I know you have a daughter.
We we had a daughter, and it's been a great gift.
Parenting with him and now grand parenting with him is
just the best. So you know, you look back on
a long life, they're ups, there's downs, but it's it's
all part of the life that I chose and I
(21:41):
made and I'm really grateful for it. So that's what
I kind of want to talk about. Because we come
from your mom had a challenging background. I had a
sort of non traditional challenging background, and I've never first
hand seen a successful relationship. So sometimes I think about
if that if I had that found a should if
if my relationships would be different. I mean, business comes
(22:03):
very easy to me. Relationships are just the one thing
I would love to be able to accomplish. But um,
I think about your age, so you're from a different generation.
You you have such a sort of modern approach to
so many things, but a traditional provincial attitude towards marriage
that is admirable. And my viewpoint, which is I'm not
(22:23):
in your marriage, is that you can't you can't crystallize
forty five years of marriage in events that are publicized
that sound pretty crappy. Don't get it twisted, But how
has that process worked your whole married life and from
being a child until now where you're staying in it
and you know you're staying in it and you've made
that commitment and that's just the way it's going to be.
(22:46):
You know, Look, I'm I've had a somewhat public marriage
as you as you alluded, and obviously everybody knows that,
but that's just the tip of the iceberg. I mean,
there's just so much more in a relationship and certainly
in our marriage that I have benefited from I'm grateful for.
And then I had to make a really hard decision,
(23:07):
like many many millions of women in our country, around
the world throughout history. And it was not easy, and
you know, lots of kibbutzers on all sides, you know,
telling me what I should or shouldn't do. I had
to dig down deep and and really feel like, wait
a minute, what is right for me? For my family, uh,
for the kind of life that I want to keep
(23:30):
living and the person I want to keep becoming. Um. So,
you know, I I made the decision to you know,
stay in the marriage and to focus on it and
to be you know, really um as as committed as
I could be, because on balance, it was what made
made me feel was right. And I don't pretend that
(23:53):
my decision is the right decision for everybody, but I
think if you go through a really intensional uh self examination,
so it's not knee jerk, it's not yes, no, or
I give in or I give up or whatever. If
you really think it through, you come to the decision
that's right for you. It might not be right for
your sister, or your best friend or your neighbor down
(24:16):
the block, but you make that decision and then you
go forward with it. And that's you know, that's how
I see it. Well, And watching your husband talk about
you and get teary eyed, you could see how much
he truly, truly loves you, like to the core. You
can just actually see the in the body language and
in his space. And so when I meet people who
(24:38):
have been married for such a long time, I find
it to be such an incredible accomplishment. It's much easier
in business, in in in friendships, in marriage, and you
know to to to walk. And I think that you've
been criticized for staying, but I don't think you've been
honored quite enough for for stitude. I mean that that's
(25:01):
very hard to do that, much less publicly for anyone
just to feel yeah, used to go through that and
to feel embarrassed and to just have to you know,
And I'm glad that you did. Having seen the documentary,
I just feel like it's something to aspire to. People
have so many things that happened in forty five years.
I mean, that's my almost my entire lifetime. It's gonna
(25:23):
gonna say and I'm not Spring Chicken. Yeah, it's gonna happen.
So so that that I that I applaud. And how
do you nurture a relationship with all that work? I
have problems in my relationships with you know, I've got
to do this and you've got to go there, and
this is important, and that's important. And I haven't had
(25:45):
a career like you, and much less where your partner
has a career like you. So how the hell? That's
what the nitty gritty of it? The day to day.
I mean, you've had some big firework moments that we've
all watched. But I'm talking about not Valentine's Day and uh,
Infidelity Day. I'm talking about the five other days or
(26:05):
the year that you know are in holidays. So how
does that? How do you do that? What's the takeaway?
You know, I think that's such the right question, and
it's particularly important in these days because you know, before
the pandemic, everybody was going off in a million different
directions and there's so many demands on everybody's life, but
somebody you know, as busy as as you. You know,
(26:27):
it gets compounded. So you've got to find things that
you really make time for. And you know, before the pandemic,
when we were living a much more you know, normal life,
we you know, made time to go out to dinner,
We made time to go to the movies, We made
time to go to the theater. We made time to
visit friends, and of course spending time with you know,
our daughter and our grandkids. Now during this pandemic, it's
(26:49):
it's fascinating, Bethany, because we make time to go for
long walks. I mean, I'm a huge believer in getting
out into nature and and breathing. I mean it's like
my mental health exercise of the day. Uh. We make
time to spend time with our our kids and our family.
We make time to you know, play games, card games,
(27:11):
do puzzles, word games. I mean it sounds kind of hokey,
but you gotta create almost I think of a weaving
together of you know, all of your individual interests. You know,
he watches sports as much as any human being. I know,
he watches anything. And he was depressed when in the
beginning of the pandemic, there were no sports. He was
(27:31):
watching you know, cornhole contests and pickle ball content anything,
right that God that you know, sports came back so
we can watch football and baseball and basketball. So he
watches a lot of sports, which is his which is
his deal. Um, you know, I talked to my friends,
I read a lot, we watched you know, common TV
programs that we find, uh, you know, entertaining and the like.
(27:52):
But you have to make a real point of it
because it is so easy to sort of just kind
of drift away. Because working on relationships, you know, it's hard.
It takes you know, a lot of patience and practice.
And I have no other advice than that, other than
you know, it's like anything else, if you value it,
(28:13):
you do it, and you practice at it and you
try to get better at it. So you're saying, it's
a quality, not quantity. It's a quality not quantity. And
it's making moments that are very present, making memories and
as a moment that yeah, that thats scheduling them, you know,
making you know, making them a priority. And of course
in the pandemic, it is quality and quantity because I
mean we're we're together seven now, we're not going anywhere
(28:36):
we have you know, not not many places that we
can get out of our house. So we've spent a
lot of time together. And you're are you with your
daughter too, so you're all together, you're having more quality
well together. So you never thought at this time it's
the best. I mean no, I never thought I'd get
to spend this kind of time with my grandchildren. I
have a six year old granddaughter. I have a four
(28:56):
and a one year old grandson, so three little kids,
and I'm ever would have thought. I mean, it's the
only silver lining in this otherwise really stressful, difficult time
for all of us. But it's a big silver lining
because you know, all summer, I mean literally they would
come and wake us up and jump on our bed
and you know, come on, grandma, come on, pop, pop,
(29:18):
come outside, we want to play or you know, it
was just the best. I mean, those memories are priceless,
embedded forever. What a great silver lining. And I do
think though that the way that I see it is
that people are still right now, and some people are
you know, obviously people are impoverished and have no job
and are unwell and that's a that's a major bucket.
(29:42):
But I think there are many people that have never
jumped out of fear business wise, and now the snow
globe is totally shaken up, and I don't think there's
going to be a big flourishing of small businesses as
a result of this because people have to fly. Oh
I hope. So I hope you know one thing well,
because you are a businesswoman and you've been really innovative
(30:03):
and entrepreneurial. You know, maybe through your podcast you could
you know, not only have business people on, but you know,
have people who can you help your listeners think about
what they could do exactly. I mean, because I agree
with you this should be a time of fermat and
innovation if we're smart about it. It's a time to
plant seeds and they will grow. There will be a
gold rush exactly. So that's what I do think, because
(30:25):
I tell people, don't get manic, and it's so hard
to not have anxiety. Try to focus on your self
care and sleeping because now is the time to be
planning everybody still, So as when you're planting your seeds,
you're planning and charting your course. That's how I feel
about it, I do. I like that. I like that,
that's good. In what ways has being a women had advantages?
(30:56):
Because we talk a lot about what women don't get
and and you know, not equal pay aside aside from
Judge Judy because she once said, thank God, I didn't
ask for equal pay, which I love. That was smart, right, So,
in what way has being a woman had its advantages?
(31:16):
Like where you know, things have happened for you that
wouldn't have happened if you were a man. Well, you know,
I think of the advantages more in sort of like
a holistic way. Um, I really do believe that being empathetic,
being able to put yourself in somebody else's position, comes
more naturally to women. I mean, I think that certainly
(31:38):
from my experience. I have a much broader aperture my
you know, my brain is sort of open wider to
sort of pick up how people are feeling and hurting
and maybe what we can you know, try to do
to help uh And I and I like that. I mean,
you know, when you think about what's happened around the
world with the pandemic, it's pretty clear now that the
(31:59):
countries with the best outcomes were run by women. Think
about that in New Zealand, Taiwan, Germany, uh, you know, Finland, Denmark.
And why was that? I mean in part because I
think many of them were moms like you know, like
you and me, many of them, Um, you know, we're
more open to feeling the fear and anxiety that people had,
(32:22):
and being more inclusive and listening. The combination of of
reasons really lead to measurable results. UM. So I think
that's why I've always been a good office holder. You know,
That's why I've always done a really good job when
I was in an office. It's a little harder sometimes
running for office and asking people to vote for you.
(32:43):
And you know, that's when sometimes the you know, the
problems are the double standard about being a woman woman
come into play. But once you're in office, I really
feel like as a public official, I kind of got
a broader understanding. Like for example, you know, I was
senator on nine eleven, Um, I was. I was there
at ground zero the day after, uh with you know,
(33:06):
the governor, the mayor, my fellow senator, UM. And I
immediately was choking on the air and I immediately started
thinking people are going to get sick from this. I
picked it up immediately because I was thinking, you know, what,
what if you know, I were living down here, or
what if I had been working down here? So I
started working on trying to, you know, understand what had
happened to people's health. I don't know, It's just because
(33:28):
as women, we you know, we we carry a lot
of the responsibilities that families are having to fulfill. And
I felt like I was helping my huge family after
such a terrible, you know, tragic disaster, makes perfect sense.
I do you have to go soon? So I'm just
gonna get in like two more questions because I want
to let you go. One is, do you feel that
(33:50):
you went gangster enough with Trump? Like, do you feel
that you were being elegant and classy and you didn't
go like you didn't go in go and gangster, and
that you maybe should have gone an our game? You know,
you know, I've thought about that a lot. I mean really,
I wrote a book after the election called What Happened,
And I wrote a chapter about women in politics, and
I wrote about, you know, how how do you deal
(34:11):
with somebody who, uh is you know that aggressive, you
know that domineering and all the rest of it. You know,
in retrospect, I think I would have. I could have
tried a few different things. I think. Still, you've got
to be careful as a woman on the you know,
the big stage. You can't be too you know, they
get to be aggressive. But if we're aggressive, we pay
(34:33):
a price for it, as you know so well. So
I think I could have tried a few other um tactics.
Maybe I'm not sure they would have worked, but you know,
might have been worth trying. What do you think of
my idea that there should be a penalty box at debates,
so if you don't follow the rules, you get a
time out for a minute and the other person just
(34:53):
gets to talk in the camera and the microphone are
not on you. I love that. We've got to do
something right to make these debates. Yeah, these debates work
again because we saw with Trump, I mean, you know,
just interrupting talking over as time. Yeah, something has to happen.
We should put you in charge of that about it? Yeah,
(35:13):
you're any time out now? Now you face the corner.
So what is your signature cocktail? Oh well, I've gone
through several during the course of my life. I'm kind
of on Margarita's right now, okay, I'll have to send
you some margharita's. Okay, that's because we've been eating so
much take out Mexican food. I probably need to stop that,
(35:36):
but it's been delicious. So let me ask you just
one last question, which is your mantra? Mine? Is? You know,
keep going and be grateful. I mean, that's kind of
how I mean, when you're knocked down, which everybody is,
you gotta find a way to get back up. Maybe
you just get to your knees first and then you
grab on something, you pull yourself up, keep going and
then be grateful, you know, every day. I really believe
(35:59):
that gratitude is a discipline and if you practice it,
it has really good effects on you. Um, so that's
what I try to do. Well, you have walked the walk,
you have talked to talk, you have been on the journey,
and I have to say that you make me proud
to be a woman, and I'm proud of you and
everything you've done. It's unbelievable. Thanks, it's great talking to you.
(36:22):
The very best to you. Thank you so much. Hillary. Wow, Uh,
you know, people are just people. I mean Hillary Clinton
is a person. She's a human being and I think
I got a sense of her. The truth is, that's
(36:42):
what this podcast is designed to do. You don't understand
who this person is, you'd understand how they think about
relationships and their career and their struggle. And that's what
it is. And I wasn't here to just you know,
talk to her about the same ship that everyone else
talked to her about. It just wanted to feel a
normal conversation that you were just sitting in on. And
(37:03):
I hope that I did it justice because there was
so much to talk about. And I'm glad she wore
just like a flannel sweatshirt or fleece because I was
wearing a snoopy shirt and that would have felt stupid
if I was all decked out and she was in
a suit. So I'm really thrilled and thank you all
for listening. This is quite exciting. Just Be is hosted
(37:27):
an executive produced by me Bethany Frankel, Brail Productions and
Endeavor Content. Our managing producer is Samantha Allison, and our
producer is Caroline Hamilton's Corey Proventer is our consulting producer,
Would be ever Faithful. Sarah Katanac as our Assistant producer.
Our Development Executive is Nain tar Roy. Just be as
(37:48):
a production of Endeavor Content and Spoke Media. This episode
was mixed by Sam Bear and To catch more moments
from the show, follow us on Instagram and Just Be
with the
Hey, everyone, Welcome to another exciting and riveting episode of
Just Be. There is a very pressing important issue that
I need to communicate to you about, and it's about
paper straws. Paper straws, paper straws. Sometimes you'll be at
(00:36):
a coffee place or a Starbucks and like you'll just
open that straw and it's a plastic straw, and it's
like you've sort of gotten the the golden ticket. You
are in Charlie and the chocolate factory and you're like,
holy shit, I hope no one sees I fucking got
the plastic straw. Like maybe one. It's like when you
get one random sprinkle and like a plane vanilla ice cream.
Just something happened. There was a plastic straw just like
(00:56):
thought like that, like I don't know, made it onto
a conveyor belt into the store and I've just got
one of the last surviving plastic straws. The thing is,
we do have to pick our spots, and I do
when I get when I take food in and I
have those plastic containers, I always reuse them. That's where
my daughter's crayons live. That's where I have little gadgets
or buttons. I organize everything in there. Maybe those little
(01:19):
clips that are at your desk, if you just they're
just messing up. So I'm a big person of trying
to recycle what I can. So I was thinking, though, Um,
so I use my plastic credit card to pay for
the drink at Starbucks, and I haven't gotten it yet,
but I'm sure that I will get plastic surgery at
(01:42):
some point. There are plastic containers in my kitchen cabinet,
there are plastic materials in my car that I drive
to go to Starbucks. I bought some Halloween decorations and
there's plastic on them. Some commercials say plastic makes it
possible based on the fact that I've just explained to
you just a small portion of my day. I mean,
(02:04):
I'm looking at keys on my daughter's computer. I actually
think that might be made of plastic. So I just
want to fucking know. Oh, I have a water bottle
here that's gonna make me be green because I'm not
gonna use plastic water bottles. But the truth the matter
is the top of it that holds in the bottom,
that insulated bottle. It's plastic. It came with a metal straw,
which I have plied, and I do buy my own straws,
(02:26):
and I will, if I think of it, put my
own straws into my daughter's lunch box and bring it
with me into my purse. I'm in my daughter's room.
There's like a light up, amazing modern bunny and it
it looks like it's made of plastic. So we are
drawing the line at straws. It's Starbucks. And the truth
of the matter is I think I would use a
(02:49):
paper credit card if I could, and I would, you know,
use paper to wrap my makeup brushes. But I really
just I don't like the straw. I don't like into
my mouth. I don't like it feels soggy. It's like
this fucking limp dick that's just like started off hard
when I started drinking the drink and two SIPs in
(03:09):
and I can't even The thing is, I can't even
drink the rest of the drink. Like it's not like
I don't want to be green or anything. I can't
finish the drink that I've purchased in a plastic cup,
by the way, that has a paper straw in it.
I can't finish the fucking drink because of the paper straw.
It's now folded over, and I often take the time
to like rip off the top and then get some
like fresh blood, so like underneath that that part hasn't
(03:30):
been so wilted. But I just want to know, like,
if we're gonna do this thing, we gotta go all
the way because I just don't feel like we're making
a big enough difference if we're just gonna just just
draw the line at the plastic straw. I want to
know the difference that the paper straws have made. I
want to know, like, I just want to know the
(03:51):
impact of the paper straw switch. How big that has been,
has it sort of is it going to be like
in the time, you know, top one greatest moments of
the paper straw switch. I just want to understand. So
I'm asking you guys to point me in the direction
of some data or statistics because I haven't seen any yet.
Let me know on my Instagram or at just be
(04:14):
with Bethany and what else can we do from plastic
to paper. Today is my conversation with Hillary Clinton. The
magnitude is not lost on me. She has accomplished so
much since the very beginning of our life. She has
really just never ever stopped fighting and persevering and moving forward.
(04:39):
So this is a pretty exciting conversation for me very
early on in this podcast. I think it really provides
the essence of what this show is about, which is
to humanize someone that you may not know that well
at all. Hi. Hell oh, bethany how are you um?
(05:03):
So excited and just humbled and taking it in? And
thank you so much. I honestly, your your time is
so valuable and I wanted to tell you what the
podcast is and you agreed blindly without asking for a question. Yes,
But are you having fun? Are you having fun doing this? I? Yes,
(05:26):
I could not love it more. I find it liberating.
What do you How do you feel about it doing it?
I feel great? You know. I never would have thought
that I would be here in my attic of my house,
and you know, with my new podcast, you and me
both talking to fabulous people about everything under the sun,
and I am Maybe it's because we're all at home
(05:48):
and and you know, we're kind of looking for substitutes
for what we can't do, like go out and see
people and have meals together and all of that. But
I love it. I know it's so freeing. And I
I see that you're in casual clothes too. I usually
I'm at home and I wear pajamas and then I
shower prior because I feel like it's respectful to the guests.
The shower and put a little perfume on. But just
(06:10):
so your listeners know, you've got a Snoopy T shirt on,
which is adorable. Well, my my team was wondering if
anyone's ever interviewed you in a Snoopy T shirt, and
they all suspected probably not. I think this is the
first and and and Snoopy looks like he's going to,
you know, be an astronaut or something. As I can,
(06:32):
I'm trying to make it out here. Yes, Well, my
teammate is Corey, and he's gay, and he says this
looks like a gay Snoopy that, so I think he
might be a gay Snoopy. And here he is, so
it looks like there's like a gay flag behind Snoopy
exactly like that. So this is just me with Bethany
and the filter here is game Changers, Mavericks. Fearlessness started
(06:55):
from the bottom. Now we're here and I want to
know how you agree need to do this. We are
two weeks into doing this and we get an email
that we all stopped and we started screaming. Am I
sitting down? I said why? And your email was read
and and and what made you decide to do this? Well,
now that I'm doing my own podcast, I've been listening
(07:17):
to podcasts and I find them fascinating because they run
the gamut. And I listened to a couple of your
podcasts and I just really loved your freewheeling, kind of
open ended conversations with people that were, like Mark Cuban,
for example, you know, we're you know, we're really intriguing.
(07:37):
And so I thought, wow, I'd love to talk with
Bethany because I'd love to have the experience of being
interviewed by her as I am kind of putting together
my own podcasting expertise, so to speak. Fabulous. All right, well,
that's thrilling, and you know that I think you're you'll,
I mean, we've done well, but I think that that
(07:59):
you're doing this will put me on the map. And
so do you realize the currency you have just being you,
the actual power and currency just your influence to just
decide to do something and it could change somebody else's
entire life. You know, I don't think about it like that.
I do feel a sense of obligation in a way,
because there are a lot of people who follow me
(08:21):
or you know, look up to me, or in this case,
listen to my podcast. I want to be a positive force,
you know what I mean. I want to be somebody
who can help people, and especially now we're going through
this common trauma of this terrible pandemic and then the
you know, racial reckoning and economic catastrophe that so many
(08:42):
people are suffering. There's a lot of pain out there,
and so I'm trying in my own way to you know,
lift people up and give them some idea of you know,
what they could do that would make their lives better
despite all the challenges. Do you feel that that are
becoming even more and more authentic as you dig deeper
(09:04):
into who you are and seeing it play out in
front of everyone. For example, you know, I watched the
documentary and it gave me such a greater sense of
who you actually are. But who people think we are
and who we actually are, you know, is sometimes so
vastly different. And so I thought to myself, if aliens
(09:24):
landed on Earth and the first person they met was you,
and they said, who are you and what do you do?
What would you say? Well, I would say that, you know,
I'm somebody who has um always felt like I had
a mission or a purpose to make the most out
of my own life and also to give back. I've
(09:46):
been really lucky in lots of ways with the you know,
family I was born into and the opportunities that I've
been given, and I've worked really hard, and so I
feel like I'm kind of on this earth to try
to make things better for people who don't have those
advantages that I've been given. And you know, the word authentic,
which gets thrown around a lot. I mean, I feel
(10:07):
like I've been exactly the same person in my entire life,
but I'm really well aware of how, you know, public
perceptions and then being in public life and being in
political life, how sometimes that is not an opening but
a barrier to people really seeing you, are getting to
(10:29):
know you. And so I accept that, you know, it's
there's so many things I want to say about that,
because in thinking about your life and career and having
to be sort of like that video game Frog or
bobbing and weaving in and out of traffic. In many ways,
it's don't hate the player paid the game because you
wanted to get into the White House to be able
to affect more change, and you were so ahead of
(10:51):
everybody else, protesting and thinking about things that most women
weren't even thinking about then. But you have to somehow
navigate that because you have to find a way. You
can't just jump in like I'm here, do it my way. Well,
that's exactly right. I mean, part of the the challenge is,
especially when you're a woman, is understanding enough about who
you are and what you're trying to achieve, but also
(11:13):
recognizing that, you know, there's still this gigantic double standard.
It's just out there, and you know, we we are
still judged on a different set of criteria than men
in public life, or men in business, or men in academia,
you just name it, men anywhere. There is still a
different set of expectations. And so I've been first in
(11:36):
a lot of areas, so I've had to kind of
go into the you know, go into the traffic and
try to figure out how I was going to maneuver
it and get through it. And you know, people are
sitting there saying, well, I don't think she's doing that right,
or you know, I don't like her hair, I don't know,
I don't like this or that because it's new and
it's unusual and everybody has to kind of figure out
(11:58):
what it means. So yeah, I I know that there's
a you know, there's a still a big burden on
a lot of women in the public arena that we
have to just keep pushing forward with well we have
in common that we're polarizing people. And in watching your documentary,
(12:19):
it seems like you don't live in the love and
you don't live in the hate like you don't you know,
you don't bask in the love, but you don't do
you don't self deprecate in the hate exactly. I think
that's a great way to put it. I mean, because
you know, just like you, you have people who uh
just adore you and follow you and you know, model
themselves after you. And then you've got people who gripe
(12:41):
and and complain and and critique you. And you know,
just like most things, you can't get pushed to the extremes.
You can't believe, you know, all the adulation and the
best about yourself and you certainly should not buy into
all the negativity and the hate and all the rest
that goes with the critics. So you have to chart
(13:01):
your own course, and you know, at the end of
the day, that's all you can do. You can just
be who you are, for better, for worse, and you know,
good times and bad. You just be who you are,
and the people who get you will get you, and
they'll know that you, like them, are an imperfect human being.
You know, you you you don't walk on water. You
do the best you can to get through the day
(13:23):
to you know, be fair and good to people around
you and all the rest. But at the at the
end of it, you gotta be you know, you've gotta
be happy and satisfied with yourself. Yes, And right now
I feel that it's more confining and more constricting than
ever because you can't you don't know what you can
and can't say, and you're not allowed to make a mistake.
(13:45):
And part of the reason I wanted to do this
podcast right now this way is because I have to
be able to say what my opinion is and if
there's a forum and people disagree with it, okay, let's
have a conversation, but people aren't having conversations. Yeah, I
think that that is uh, you know, really an unfortunate
development is that you know, there, Look, there are some
(14:06):
people who they're not interested in conversation. They're just interested
in dominating what you're supposed to believe and what you're
supposed to say from you know, all kinds of directions.
It's not just coming from one side, it's coming from degrees.
And so there are people who are trying to just
I think, stifle conversation if you don't agree with them,
(14:26):
and I think that's terrible. I think it's divisive. I
think it doesn't lead to good decision making. I mean,
you know, yeah, look, there are some people who believe
things that I find abhorrent. I'm not interested in having
a conversation with them. I don't think you are either.
But there's a whole lot of other people who, you know,
they have differences of opinion based on their own experiences,
and you should be able to have a conversation. But
(14:47):
we're going through a period of time where everybody is
really on edge, and I think a lot of it
has to do, you know, with the pandemic, with the
terrible killings of George Floyd and others. There's a lot
of tension and you know, anxiety and anguish in the world.
The economic crisis has devastated people. There's just there's so
much tension that people are are afraid to have a
(15:10):
conversation because they're not sure they can take much more.
Does that make sense? And it's it's I'm mad as hell,
and I'm not going to take this anymore. People are
also stuck in their homes, so it's an idle mind
as a devil's playground, and people are just angry and
they want to have this conversation. Not a conversation though
it's I'm right, you're wrong, now what Okay? So it's
a zero sum game and I find that to be
(15:31):
a problem. And sometimes I watch social media and I'm thinking,
it's okay if you disagree with me, I disagree with you,
but let's yeah, so that we we agree on that.
I really I like it that I like you. You
you pointed out, you know, the problem with a zero
sum game, and I agree with you completely. Right now,
(15:52):
there's too much of a zero sum game going on,
and it's like, you know, I can only win if
you lose. No, wait a minute, you know what, I
think there's a way that Yeah, maybe we wouldn't get
everything we want, but we'd sure make some you know,
good changes together if we would actually listen to each other.
That is now considered you know, unacceptable. It's my way
(16:12):
or no way, and I just we You can't run
a society, especially a democracy, if you're not listening to
people and trying to find common ground. You may reject
it after the effort and say no, you know that's
not gonna work. I don't I don't believe that, or
I can't go along with that. But the effort is
really important. You want to understand why someone feels that way,
(16:34):
even if you don't agree with that that. You want to
understand where that thought process controvers saying you're a jerk,
I disagree with you by yeah, okay, yeah yeah, and
walk away. I'm not talking to you anymore. Exactly. That's
exactly you said before that you felt that you had
(16:57):
a mission, and did you feel inside of you like, well,
I thought this something. I have this special thing and
I'm not sure what it is, but I'm going to
take this thing all the way. Did you feel that,
you know, I did, Bethany, and I think I thought
a lot about you know, why I chose some of
the paths I took. And I really go back to
(17:18):
my mother, you know, who was a major influence in
my life. And she had a really, really bad childhood.
She was basically neglected and abandoned and pretty much out
on her own. And by the time she was thirteen,
she was working in somebody else's home. She was being
a babysitter and a housekeeper. And as I learned about that,
I didn't know it when I was a little kid,
(17:40):
but as I became a teenager, I just felt really
drawn to trying to figure out how I could help kids.
That was my main driver, particularly neglected and abused kids,
poor kids, sick kids. And I really believe it was
in large measure because I would imagine, you know, my
mother's life now. She she had some moments and I
(18:01):
asked her this once. I said, how did you get
through that? Because it was so grim, and she said,
along the way, somebody would be kind to me. So,
for example, when she was in first grade, she never
had any she never brought any food to school. She
had to wear the same clothes every day, etcetera. And
her first grade teacher noticed because they used in those days,
I was a long time ago, in like the nineteen twenties,
(18:23):
you know, they would eat at their desk in their classroom,
and she noticed that my mother never brought any food,
and so a few days went behind, the teacher came
and said to my mother, you know, Dorothy, um, I
just brought too much food today. I can't I can't
eat at all. Would you like it? And it was
never embarrassing or humiliating. It was totally out of kindness.
(18:46):
Or you know, fast forward to when my mother was
working in somebody else's home and she she couldn't go
to high school because she had to work and she
couldn't her grandparents had thrown her out. And uh so
the mother the house said, you know, Dorothy, if you
would like to go to high school, if you get
up early and you finish your work, you should go
to high school. And you know, I think about a
(19:07):
thirteen year old being put in that position and breaks
my heart. But for my mother it was kindness. So
my mother would get up early and she would run
to school and she would run back and she would
do her other chores and you know, you think about
just the small things. You're talking about people who are
at home, just the small things that make a huge
difference in somebody's lives. So, like, fifty years later, my
(19:29):
mother is telling me about her first grade teacher and
the woman whose house she worked in, because those two
people showed kindness to her. So I think, you know,
that was really what motivated me to go to work
for the Children's Defense Fund and work on you know,
kids issues. In the early part of my career. I
think about your journey and the sort of bobbing and
(19:51):
weaving of you and can I Bill? I mean, what
did I call him? Bill? Okay? Well it sounds like
such like a regular name now and I say it
out loud, my joll Phil Okay. So you and Bill
are sort of, you know, switching positions in you know,
you you were the supporting character and then he was
a supporting character in the film. And I wonder, do
(20:13):
you think you would have gone as far as you
have without him? And do you think that he would
have gone all the way without you? Or do you
think it was a sum is greater than its parts thing?
I think it was the sum is greater than the parts.
I mean, you know, when when I met him, Um,
I had no idea back in law school, you know
that he would end up being president. But he was charismatic,
(20:36):
and he was really smart, and he was funny, and
you know, we just really hit it off. And so
are you know, our time together we were married forty
five years as of uh, you know, October the eleventh.
Our time together has been really mutually supportive, and you're right.
At some points, you know, I did more to support him.
(20:58):
At other points, he did more to support me, but
not just in the public way, you know, in the
in you know, the really personal way. When you know
a parent dies or there's some other tragedy in your life,
you know, to have somebody by your side who kind
of knows the whole history and can be there supporting
you and vice versa. Yeah, I mean that's amazing. And
(21:21):
then we had you know, I know you have a daughter.
We we had a daughter, and it's been a great gift.
Parenting with him and now grand parenting with him is
just the best. So you know, you look back on
a long life, they're ups, there's downs, but it's it's
all part of the life that I chose and I
(21:41):
made and I'm really grateful for it. So that's what
I kind of want to talk about. Because we come
from your mom had a challenging background. I had a
sort of non traditional challenging background, and I've never first
hand seen a successful relationship. So sometimes I think about
if that if I had that found a should if
if my relationships would be different. I mean, business comes
(22:03):
very easy to me. Relationships are just the one thing
I would love to be able to accomplish. But um,
I think about your age, so you're from a different generation.
You you have such a sort of modern approach to
so many things, but a traditional provincial attitude towards marriage
that is admirable. And my viewpoint, which is I'm not
(22:23):
in your marriage, is that you can't you can't crystallize
forty five years of marriage in events that are publicized
that sound pretty crappy. Don't get it twisted, But how
has that process worked your whole married life and from
being a child until now where you're staying in it
and you know you're staying in it and you've made
that commitment and that's just the way it's going to be.
(22:46):
You know, Look, I'm I've had a somewhat public marriage
as you as you alluded, and obviously everybody knows that,
but that's just the tip of the iceberg. I mean,
there's just so much more in a relationship and certainly
in our marriage that I have benefited from I'm grateful for.
And then I had to make a really hard decision,
(23:07):
like many many millions of women in our country, around
the world throughout history. And it was not easy, and
you know, lots of kibbutzers on all sides, you know,
telling me what I should or shouldn't do. I had
to dig down deep and and really feel like, wait
a minute, what is right for me? For my family, uh,
for the kind of life that I want to keep
(23:30):
living and the person I want to keep becoming. Um. So,
you know, I I made the decision to you know,
stay in the marriage and to focus on it and
to be you know, really um as as committed as
I could be, because on balance, it was what made
made me feel was right. And I don't pretend that
(23:53):
my decision is the right decision for everybody, but I
think if you go through a really intensional uh self examination,
so it's not knee jerk, it's not yes, no, or
I give in or I give up or whatever. If
you really think it through, you come to the decision
that's right for you. It might not be right for
your sister, or your best friend or your neighbor down
(24:16):
the block, but you make that decision and then you
go forward with it. And that's you know, that's how
I see it. Well, And watching your husband talk about
you and get teary eyed, you could see how much
he truly, truly loves you, like to the core. You
can just actually see the in the body language and
in his space. And so when I meet people who
(24:38):
have been married for such a long time, I find
it to be such an incredible accomplishment. It's much easier
in business, in in in friendships, in marriage, and you
know to to to walk. And I think that you've
been criticized for staying, but I don't think you've been
honored quite enough for for stitude. I mean that that's
(25:01):
very hard to do that, much less publicly for anyone
just to feel yeah, used to go through that and
to feel embarrassed and to just have to you know,
And I'm glad that you did. Having seen the documentary,
I just feel like it's something to aspire to. People
have so many things that happened in forty five years.
I mean, that's my almost my entire lifetime. It's gonna
(25:23):
gonna say and I'm not Spring Chicken. Yeah, it's gonna happen.
So so that that I that I applaud. And how
do you nurture a relationship with all that work? I
have problems in my relationships with you know, I've got
to do this and you've got to go there, and
this is important, and that's important. And I haven't had
(25:45):
a career like you, and much less where your partner
has a career like you. So how the hell? That's
what the nitty gritty of it? The day to day.
I mean, you've had some big firework moments that we've
all watched. But I'm talking about not Valentine's Day and uh,
Infidelity Day. I'm talking about the five other days or
(26:05):
the year that you know are in holidays. So how
does that? How do you do that? What's the takeaway?
You know, I think that's such the right question, and
it's particularly important in these days because you know, before
the pandemic, everybody was going off in a million different
directions and there's so many demands on everybody's life, but
somebody you know, as busy as as you. You know,
(26:27):
it gets compounded. So you've got to find things that
you really make time for. And you know, before the pandemic,
when we were living a much more you know, normal life,
we you know, made time to go out to dinner,
We made time to go to the movies, We made
time to go to the theater. We made time to
visit friends, and of course spending time with you know,
our daughter and our grandkids. Now during this pandemic, it's
(26:49):
it's fascinating, Bethany, because we make time to go for
long walks. I mean, I'm a huge believer in getting
out into nature and and breathing. I mean it's like
my mental health exercise of the day. Uh. We make
time to spend time with our our kids and our family.
We make time to you know, play games, card games,
(27:11):
do puzzles, word games. I mean it sounds kind of hokey,
but you gotta create almost I think of a weaving
together of you know, all of your individual interests. You know,
he watches sports as much as any human being. I know,
he watches anything. And he was depressed when in the
beginning of the pandemic, there were no sports. He was
(27:31):
watching you know, cornhole contests and pickle ball content anything,
right that God that you know, sports came back so
we can watch football and baseball and basketball. So he
watches a lot of sports, which is his which is
his deal. Um, you know, I talked to my friends,
I read a lot, we watched you know, common TV
programs that we find, uh, you know, entertaining and the like.
(27:52):
But you have to make a real point of it
because it is so easy to sort of just kind
of drift away. Because working on relationships, you know, it's hard.
It takes you know, a lot of patience and practice.
And I have no other advice than that, other than
you know, it's like anything else, if you value it,
(28:13):
you do it, and you practice at it and you
try to get better at it. So you're saying, it's
a quality, not quantity. It's a quality not quantity. And
it's making moments that are very present, making memories and
as a moment that yeah, that thats scheduling them, you know,
making you know, making them a priority. And of course
in the pandemic, it is quality and quantity because I
mean we're we're together seven now, we're not going anywhere
(28:36):
we have you know, not not many places that we
can get out of our house. So we've spent a
lot of time together. And you're are you with your
daughter too, so you're all together, you're having more quality
well together. So you never thought at this time it's
the best. I mean no, I never thought I'd get
to spend this kind of time with my grandchildren. I
have a six year old granddaughter. I have a four
(28:56):
and a one year old grandson, so three little kids,
and I'm ever would have thought. I mean, it's the
only silver lining in this otherwise really stressful, difficult time
for all of us. But it's a big silver lining
because you know, all summer, I mean literally they would
come and wake us up and jump on our bed
and you know, come on, grandma, come on, pop, pop,
(29:18):
come outside, we want to play or you know, it
was just the best. I mean, those memories are priceless,
embedded forever. What a great silver lining. And I do
think though that the way that I see it is
that people are still right now, and some people are
you know, obviously people are impoverished and have no job
and are unwell and that's a that's a major bucket.
(29:42):
But I think there are many people that have never
jumped out of fear business wise, and now the snow
globe is totally shaken up, and I don't think there's
going to be a big flourishing of small businesses as
a result of this because people have to fly. Oh
I hope. So I hope you know one thing well,
because you are a businesswoman and you've been really innovative
(30:03):
and entrepreneurial. You know, maybe through your podcast you could
you know, not only have business people on, but you know,
have people who can you help your listeners think about
what they could do exactly. I mean, because I agree
with you this should be a time of fermat and
innovation if we're smart about it. It's a time to
plant seeds and they will grow. There will be a
gold rush exactly. So that's what I do think, because
(30:25):
I tell people, don't get manic, and it's so hard
to not have anxiety. Try to focus on your self
care and sleeping because now is the time to be
planning everybody still, So as when you're planting your seeds,
you're planning and charting your course. That's how I feel
about it, I do. I like that. I like that,
that's good. In what ways has being a women had advantages?
(30:56):
Because we talk a lot about what women don't get
and and you know, not equal pay aside aside from
Judge Judy because she once said, thank God, I didn't
ask for equal pay, which I love. That was smart, right, So,
in what way has being a woman had its advantages?
(31:16):
Like where you know, things have happened for you that
wouldn't have happened if you were a man. Well, you know,
I think of the advantages more in sort of like
a holistic way. Um, I really do believe that being empathetic,
being able to put yourself in somebody else's position, comes
more naturally to women. I mean, I think that certainly
(31:38):
from my experience. I have a much broader aperture my
you know, my brain is sort of open wider to
sort of pick up how people are feeling and hurting
and maybe what we can you know, try to do
to help uh And I and I like that. I mean,
you know, when you think about what's happened around the
world with the pandemic, it's pretty clear now that the
(31:59):
countries with the best outcomes were run by women. Think
about that in New Zealand, Taiwan, Germany, uh, you know, Finland, Denmark.
And why was that? I mean in part because I
think many of them were moms like you know, like
you and me, many of them, Um, you know, we're
more open to feeling the fear and anxiety that people had,
(32:22):
and being more inclusive and listening. The combination of of
reasons really lead to measurable results. UM. So I think
that's why I've always been a good office holder. You know,
That's why I've always done a really good job when
I was in an office. It's a little harder sometimes
running for office and asking people to vote for you.
(32:43):
And you know, that's when sometimes the you know, the
problems are the double standard about being a woman woman
come into play. But once you're in office, I really
feel like as a public official, I kind of got
a broader understanding. Like for example, you know, I was
senator on nine eleven, Um, I was. I was there
at ground zero the day after, uh with you know,
(33:06):
the governor, the mayor, my fellow senator, UM. And I
immediately was choking on the air and I immediately started
thinking people are going to get sick from this. I
picked it up immediately because I was thinking, you know, what,
what if you know, I were living down here, or
what if I had been working down here? So I
started working on trying to, you know, understand what had
happened to people's health. I don't know, It's just because
(33:28):
as women, we you know, we we carry a lot
of the responsibilities that families are having to fulfill. And
I felt like I was helping my huge family after
such a terrible, you know, tragic disaster, makes perfect sense.
I do you have to go soon? So I'm just
gonna get in like two more questions because I want
to let you go. One is, do you feel that
(33:50):
you went gangster enough with Trump? Like, do you feel
that you were being elegant and classy and you didn't
go like you didn't go in go and gangster, and
that you maybe should have gone an our game? You know,
you know, I've thought about that a lot. I mean really,
I wrote a book after the election called What Happened,
And I wrote a chapter about women in politics, and
I wrote about, you know, how how do you deal
(34:11):
with somebody who, uh is you know that aggressive, you
know that domineering and all the rest of it. You know,
in retrospect, I think I would have. I could have
tried a few different things. I think. Still, you've got
to be careful as a woman on the you know,
the big stage. You can't be too you know, they
get to be aggressive. But if we're aggressive, we pay
(34:33):
a price for it, as you know so well. So
I think I could have tried a few other um tactics.
Maybe I'm not sure they would have worked, but you know,
might have been worth trying. What do you think of
my idea that there should be a penalty box at debates,
so if you don't follow the rules, you get a
time out for a minute and the other person just
(34:53):
gets to talk in the camera and the microphone are
not on you. I love that. We've got to do
something right to make these debates. Yeah, these debates work
again because we saw with Trump, I mean, you know,
just interrupting talking over as time. Yeah, something has to happen.
We should put you in charge of that about it? Yeah,
(35:13):
you're any time out now? Now you face the corner.
So what is your signature cocktail? Oh well, I've gone
through several during the course of my life. I'm kind
of on Margarita's right now, okay, I'll have to send
you some margharita's. Okay, that's because we've been eating so
much take out Mexican food. I probably need to stop that,
(35:36):
but it's been delicious. So let me ask you just
one last question, which is your mantra? Mine? Is? You know,
keep going and be grateful. I mean, that's kind of
how I mean, when you're knocked down, which everybody is,
you gotta find a way to get back up. Maybe
you just get to your knees first and then you
grab on something, you pull yourself up, keep going and
then be grateful, you know, every day. I really believe
(35:59):
that gratitude is a discipline and if you practice it,
it has really good effects on you. Um, so that's
what I try to do. Well, you have walked the walk,
you have talked to talk, you have been on the journey,
and I have to say that you make me proud
to be a woman, and I'm proud of you and
everything you've done. It's unbelievable. Thanks, it's great talking to you.
(36:22):
The very best to you. Thank you so much. Hillary. Wow, Uh,
you know, people are just people. I mean Hillary Clinton
is a person. She's a human being and I think
I got a sense of her. The truth is, that's
(36:42):
what this podcast is designed to do. You don't understand
who this person is, you'd understand how they think about
relationships and their career and their struggle. And that's what
it is. And I wasn't here to just you know,
talk to her about the same ship that everyone else
talked to her about. It just wanted to feel a
normal conversation that you were just sitting in on. And
(37:03):
I hope that I did it justice because there was
so much to talk about. And I'm glad she wore
just like a flannel sweatshirt or fleece because I was
wearing a snoopy shirt and that would have felt stupid
if I was all decked out and she was in
a suit. So I'm really thrilled and thank you all
for listening. This is quite exciting. Just Be is hosted
(37:27):
an executive produced by me Bethany Frankel, Brail Productions and
Endeavor Content. Our managing producer is Samantha Allison, and our
producer is Caroline Hamilton's Corey Proventer is our consulting producer,
Would be ever Faithful. Sarah Katanac as our Assistant producer.
Our Development Executive is Nain tar Roy. Just be as
(37:48):
a production of Endeavor Content and Spoke Media. This episode
was mixed by Sam Bear and To catch more moments
from the show, follow us on Instagram and Just Be
with the
Host
Bethenny Frankel
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