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October 21, 2021 32 mins

On Bethenny's origins in the television industry

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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Yeah, there's been a lot of gossip and scandal and
press and discussion about The Housewives and my coming back

and my leaving, and I think I'm better than everybody,
and I should never come back because it's a train
wreck and the New York show is falling into the ocean,
and that I should come back because it would make
people happy, and you know all of this. So I
am just going to address it in the next couple
of episodes on this podcast because this is the only

place I can truly have my voice and just say
what I really feel. That's not a SoundBite or a
hundred and forty character tweet. This is just a place
that I am speaking honestly and not being edited, filtered
and jammed into a pull quote. So here we go.

I want to talk about my trajectory from the beginning
of The Housewives to now. This is something that is
a question I get so often. Are you coming back
to the Housewives? Will you save the Housewives? Can you
save the Housewives? The Housewives is falling into the Hudson
River and so desperately needs you. Now that is so flattering,
because to leave something and have it not be doing

well in it in a progressive way. Years ago, I
left and the ratings declined significantly, really really significantly, and
I came back and the ratings increased, And the second
time I left, the ratings declined significantly again. If it
continue to do so, certainly that's not that's not on
my shoulders alone. But that doesn't often happen. Usually everyone

just sort of goes on without you and you're not
really missed. Um. So that's really flattering. And I really
don't deserve all of that praise because there are many
things that go into making a television show and its success.
But nevertheless, still years after leaving for the second time,
having people reach out all the time, I mean daily

saying are you coming back? Please come back, we need
you back, and everyone having an opinion on that has
uh has benefits and drawbacks. So I could literally say
hi on Twitter, just come out and say hi, and
then people will say she's coming back. This is your
announcement that you're coming back, which is so funny, and
like I said, I can't say enough. It's so flattering. Um,

I left twice. I was first on for three seasons,
which you know, these housewives have been going on for
some some of the shows eleven and twelve season, so
I left. I was only on for three seasons, and
then I left for three seasons, which is substantial. And
it was a similar thing, will you come back? We
need you to come back. The house always needs you back, um,

and that you're the car A Bradshaw of the Housewives.
And I came back, um, and I'm gonna get into that,
and I'm gonna get into the money of it and
what happened there. And then I came back I think
for four seasons. Maybe I don't think it was five.
I think it was four. And now I've been gone
four two So it's always amazing to me how fresh

it is as if I left yesterday and the people
are still asking the question. If someone messages me you're
my favorite Housewife, you're oh my god, I love your show.
And I know that they're talking about the Housewives. They're
not talking about my Bethany talk show. They're not talking
about my The Big Shot with Bethany, which um is
a show that I did to find uh an employee

on HBO Max Uh that wasn't done to do for
the rest of my life that I wanted to create
the new Apprentice and every season be finding more staff
because I don't frankly need more staff. People came the
HBO said, people came to see me. It didn't matter
if I was hiring people. They just wanted to sort
of see me. And uh, in looking at that, I say,
people like seeing me, but they like seeing me with

the Housewives. They like me seeing me with a group
of peers similar age group, uh not even necessarily similar
to city. But they like the running commentary of me
around the Housewives. So when I joined The Housewives, I
don't really remember what year it was. It was a
long time ago. It was probably twelve to fifteen years ago.
I'm terrible at dates. So when I first agreed to

do The Housewives, um, I was living in a tiny
apartment mostly furnished by Ikea, if not all furnished by Ikea.
I had eight thousand dollars to my name and my
bank account. I had maybe some credit card debt. I
think I learned years ago to consolidate all that, so
I didn't have any debt. I've never had debt. But
I would sell items that I had gotten in previous

lives as gifts to to work. I used to be
a natural food chef. I went to culinary school and
I would cook for p helping meals delivered to their homes.
I worked for Dennis Leary in a trailer on the
set of Rescue me Um. I was hustling. I was
trying to just pay my rent. So I had a

boyfriend and we were at Polo in the Hampton's, not
the store, the sporting event, which is a thing that
is sort of like a social event and people go
there and want to schmooze, and I guess it's probably
a lot of younger people. And I was way younger then,
but I went to promote Bethany Bakes, my wheat egg
and dairy free cookie company. I was a natural food

chef and I remember that was the day of Super
Saturday and event that I uh. I think Kelly Ripper hosts,
and I didn't know her then, and it's like a
big sort of shopping event, and I think people pay
five dollars Donna Karen's event for I think it's it's
either it's breast cancer. I think it's breast cancer or
a varying cancer. But it's a female hosted event in

the Hampton's and I used to beg to go. I
used to beg to go, find a way to get invited,
and then you left and they had this massive gift
bag that was definitely worth more than the five people
were able to pay. And you went there and they
sold all these events, sold all these clothes at a discount.
And in the beginning, it used to be so amazing,
and you get these crazy deals. And I remember, I
still have a dressed in my closet that was BCBG

that was fifty dollars and it looks like a gown
and it looks like it was like a thousand dollars.
So that day I somehow managed to get myself in there.
I think my friend had a booth and I went
there to do the same thing, to give my business
card out. I am a natural food chef. I have
a Bethany bakes. I mean, I would try to get
celebrities to eat the cookies. I remember I used to
try to place that I cooked for Murshica Hargete a

couple of times on on the set of Law and Order,
and that I used to Nanny Harrison and Nikki and
I was trying to be something and I was trying
to be successful and I was older. Remember I was
in my mid to late thirties. This is when many
people that we know already are on the road. So
I remember that day. I drank champagne. It was during
the day, and then I had a terrible headache and
I didn't want to go to Polo that afternoon, and

my boyfriend at the time said, go, you'll give out
your cookies. I had my Bethany Bigs business cards and
he said we should, you should go, We'll go. So
we went together and I ran into Joe's arm, who
I had met. I met Jill because I was at
a movie premiere in the city and she came up
to me and said, you were on that show The Apprentice.
And you could tell Jill liked that. She liked the sizzle,

and she said, you were on that show The Apprentice.
I'm doing a show. It's about moms getting their kids
into schools and it's called Manhattan Moms. And I was
barely listening to her, and I wanted to get a
show on the Food Network. It's all I wanted was
to get a show on the Food Network. And um,
she was nice and I cut to me at the
Hampton's that day, I was wearing my juicy short terry

cloth hooded, short sleeve, puffy sleeve romper to Polo and
I had my cookies and my cards. I remember Land
Bass was there. I remember he was wearing a great
scent and I asked him what it was and it
was Keel's usk. And I don't know how I knew him,
but he or maybe I didn't know him, he was
super nice to me. This is how I used to connect.
It used to just talk to people. Um, I years

ago used to go to sun Dance, the film festival,
because I went once with a friend, a boy, I
was a man I was dating, and finagle my way
into hosting Chef Dance, this event where each night a
different chef cooks for people. And I was the one
who used to call and book the chefs and take
pictures with the chefs. And you know, I hustled everything,

and I hustled everyone I knew, and I sent them
my cookies the minute after I met them. To this day,
when I connect with someone, I send them skinny girl
stuff afterwards, Like these things are just practices. So I
ran it to Lance Bass. I'm sure I took his
information if he would give it to me. I'm sure
I told him who I was. Uh, there was no
social media, then there were no podcast Then I didn't

have a publicist. Then I'm sure I tried to send
him cookies. Maybe I did, I don't remember, But I
don't know how I got into the VI I P
Tent And I think they probably gave out a gift bag.
And I remember like it was yesterday, Jill Zaren walking
up to me and going, hey, you skinny bitch, because
years before there had been a book called Skinny Bitch.
That was that That was the first person to use
the word skinny, but not in any product. She just

had a book and she never made it into a brand. Um,
that's a digression. Because all the skinny latte, skinny pizza,
skinny anything started with the skinny rol margharita, all the
low calorie cocktails, all those canned drinks, they all started
with the skinny roal margharita. So Jill Sara says, hey,
skinny bitch, what are you doing? Had you get into
the v I P Tent? Because she loves a gift bag.

She actually had a business for gift bag, so she
wanted to know how I got into the v I
P tet, How I got the bracelet. Except except for
being you know, wealthy and living on the Upper East Side,
she was a nobody. Also, we both she wouldn't be
able to get into a v I P tent any
more than I would, except that she was a hustler,
just like I am. You know, Jill will get herself
into any where she wants to get herself into. Um.
So she said, we're shooting the show Manhattan Moms. I

remember she had talked to about it about it, and
she said, um, they're looking for a fifth wife. What
I did not realize was that Bravo said there had
to be five women for Manhattan Moms. They had already
chosen four. I didn't know anything about this. They needed
the fifth wife, the fifth mom. No, it had to
be a wife and a mom mom. Really the production

company Ricochet at the time, which is now Shed. I
didn't care. They had the four, they had already started filming,
but they weren't going to do The show was the
first one because remember Orange County, Real Housewives of Orange
County was on, but this was not a real housewife's show.
This was just another show on that about women. So
Jill said to one of the producers, Gia, come out

to the Hampton's. I'll help you find another housewife. So
they were on the hunt. They went and I think
Bobby's Rolls Royce. They went to Polo. That's a place
to meet people. Everybody in the Hamptons is gonna be there.
So I don't know the vortex I'm walking into, but
I'm there, and Jill says, like, what about the v
I p bags and also I'm here with one of
the producers. So I didn't really talk to Jill about it.

That was really the end of it. She made Bobby
not made, but she told Bobby to talk to me.
So Bobby spoke to myself and Jason, the guy I
was with, he thought it was really interesting for me.
It was somebody wanted to do something with me. I
was broke. I was trying to get somewhere and do something.
God knows what it was. And Bobby and the producer
were talking to me, and then really Jason, I walked away.
I wasn't taking it seriously. I wanted to be on

the Food Network. I didn't want to be on another
reality show. I had been on the Apprentice. It wasn't
a big success, the one with Martha Stewart. And I
didn't want to do this, not because I'm better than
because you can't be on two reality shows in a row.
At that time. That's where we're talking about the dark ages.
No one would an actor would never be on a
reality show, and you would not be on two in
a row. But Bobby kept talking to Jason, and then

Bobby walked away, and then Jason was talking to Kira,
the producer, and he said he worked at a private
equity fund or a hedge fund, and you know, talked
about me, etcetera. And it was called Manhattan Mom's about
moms getting their kids into school, and I was thinking,
what the hell do they want me for? I don't
even we're not even married or engaged, and we're not.
I'm gonna sure, we're gonna make it. Then we got

home and the woman Kiro was calling me. Jason did
not the guy I was with, did not want to
do this. He didn't want to be on television. He
was just sort of selling me. He didn't even know
what he was selling. It just seemed like a good opportunity.
So she kept calling me and wanted to put me
on tape, and I promised you and I would tell you.
I wanted the Apprentice more than I ever wanted anything
in my life. I didn't really want to do this.

I didn't really understand it at all. It was I
didn't I wanted me on the Food Network. I was
already having conversations and going to meetings I wanted to
do like Survivor meets a cooking show. I just wanted
to be cooking. That's all I wanted to do. So
hence the natural food cookies. Hence I was a natural
food chef long before it was cool, years ago. This

isn't like right after nine eleven. I was making wheat
egg and dairy free. Uh you know, gluten free Celia
cook it. Think about that, Think about like that. Now
that's so current. So the woman asks me, she can
come just get me on tape. It's not binding. She
just wants to get me on tape. She comes to
a crappy kitchen. I'm making cookies. She's following my life
just for like a half a day. I don't understand

the process, So I'm not even sure what this all means.
Like these shows didn't exist, so as she wants me
to do it. I said, my guy won't do it.
He doesn't want to do it. I don't know if
I want to do it, I say no, I turn
it down. I take a month. I think about it,
and I remember thinking about Rocco di Spirito show the
restaurant long before it's time, thinking about the Gastone Girls,
long before it's time, because all these shows would have

done well now, um, And I thought, God, I don't
know if I want to be a train wreck and
it to be a disaster and fail. But then I thought,
it's not that easy to get on television, and if
it does well, everybody it'll be a success. And if
it doesn't do well, no one's even going to know
about it. So everybody that I know tells me not

to do it. All my agents at William Morrison, which
was not endeavor yet, I don't think, help me not
to do it. Everyone tells me not to do it. Um,
I say to myself, I have nothing going on. I
called back a month later. They've already been filming. I
called the woman Kira, and she's like, let's go. That's
when I went over to Jill Zarn's house. I believe.

I don't know. It wasn't Jill Zaren's house, one of
their friends houses, maybe ramone, their friend, Missy Lubliner to
watch that tennis match. And for anybody who used to watch,
it was me watching his tennis match and these crazy
people and just my reactions. And I certainly think didn't
think I did anything. It wasn't like I did anything.
I just sort of watched some people and reacted. I
wasn't say anything. I didn't really do much. And I

went to another I went to Jill's house, I think,
and lo and behold. They wanted me, but for this
thing that I didn't even understand. I hadn't even met
everybody really understand. There was no social media. My contract
said seven thousand, two fifty dollars. We started filming without
my contract being signed. For a while, I didn't even
know if I was definitely doing this. I was sort

of playing around filming, almost like the way a friend does.
I guess now, and I went with my agent, Evo
Fisher William Morris into Bravo to pitch them one of
these food shows. And the woman said to us, I
forgot her name. I know her well. The woman that
we pitched, said excuse me, aren't you shooting a show
right now for us? And I said, well yeah, but
we haven't done the contract. That was like that set

a precedent. They never after that let people start filming
without a contract because they were reliant upon me. I
had already started filming the show, but I hadn't had
a contract it. And they were like this, this girl
is pitching us another show and we're we want her
on that show. And I didn't realize like that they
thought I was valuable, that I was that fifth wife,
that I was that question mark character they have been
looking for. They've been looking for a fifth mom wife

that was rich, that was on the Upper east Side.
Not until they met me did they realize, oh, we
want this, we want someone different. And they called it,
you know, the question mark character. What is going to
happen with her? Someone to root for. She's not rich
like these other women, She's not buying diamonds and getting facials.
This other person that's different living in this you know,
I don't want to say shitty apartment, but you know,
not luxury apartment and with Ikea. So also keeping mind,

we didn't know what this was. This was Manhattan Moms.
We're filming a show called Manhattan Moms. I'm doing interviews
and no makeup. I don't know how to do my
own makeup. The way that I used to get my
makeup done then was I would go to the Bloomingdale's
counter and sit down and buy the obligatory lip class
with my dog Cookie in my lap. So the girl
Veronica at the Trish Macavoy counter would do it. I'd

be like, how many do elie to give you the
money and tip you the twenty or I'll buy the
lip classes? What do I have to do? That's what
my idea of getting my makeup done was. Um the
idea of paying hundreds of dollars in your home and
not getting any makeup for it, like it was crazy.
That was preposterous. That was like a waste of money.
It's crazy. How I live my life now, I think
this is normal. But you would spend a couple hundred

dollars witch makeup done. So I would sit in my
cable knit, pre owned Ralph Lauren turquoise sweater and do
the interviews. I didn't know what I was on. We
didn't know what we were on. I remember telling this
PubL us is Clare Mercury. This is going to be
there was a word I said. I said, this is
going to be like groundbreaking or a phenomenon or something,
and she was like, it's not a phenomenon like I

you know, Ramona thought it was going to get a
million view. She thought it was a phenomenon. We did
not know we were in the second installment of Real
Housewives of Orange County. We were on a show called
Manhattan Moms. Not until we shot some press and we
saw it at the top. We didn't want to be
associated with that first Real Housewives show. That wasn't like.
That wasn't what the girls wanted. The girls wanted it
to seem socialite in New York City, and that show

didn't seem that way. There was no press on that show. Really,
there wasn't really pressed. Then. Things like this didn't get pressed.
It wasn't like that. Jessica Simpson had gotten pressed for
you know, Chicken of the Sea and saying what I
forgot the tune that she thought it was chicken in
it can I don't remember what it was, some some something,
but like we didn't know anything about anything. So I'm

now shooting the show Bravos freaking out that I didn't
sign my contract. I'm not aware that they think I'm
great and want me to do this, and the game
starts moving, but we don't know what we're doing. We've
never seen this before. I don't know what it means
when I'm sitting down having a conversation and they want
me to talk to the guy I'm dating about if
he wants to move in together. I don't know that
that like they have a whiteboard somewhere where they know

that they have to get that storyline. I just am
a person. I go went on and we Jason and
I decided that that was a different Jason. This was
Jason's season one. That I was going to be a
natural food Jef, and the only thing that I was
going to do was cook on television and show that
I was a natural food Jeff. That's all that I
was going to do. Well. I quickly started to realize
as we started that that wasn't going to be all

that interesting, and that like this, whatever this audience was
that I wanted to attract, that I had to give
them all of me, that I couldn't be like the
scam that only showed part of me. I had to
show who I was. So here I am saying, do
you want to move in together? And because he didn't
want to be on camera and this was the most
crazy concept of his life, and he was afraid he
was gonna get fired. And you know, it was unheard

of that a husband would be on these shows like
and risk whatever they were doing. And so he said,
let's talk about it later. We'll talk about it later.
And I'm like, okay, but you don't want to talk
about it now. I'm sweating because I know there's a
camera there and that's not how he really feels. He
wants to live together, but there's cameras on his face,
and he's like, we'll talk about it later. But I'm
aware that the audience is going to think I'm some loser,

that this guy wants to beg this guy to live
with me and we'll talk about it later. And I
you know, but I went for it with all of it,
meaning like I just was giving it all. I said
to my friend. I remember saying, I'm doing this, let's
go all the way. We had a breakup. I went
down to Florida. My friend told me I was thirty
seven and my eggs were rotting, and I was a
natural food chef, thinking Jesus, I don't want rotten eggs.

And this was all on television and I didn't know
what we were even doing. So when it aired, New
York Magazine wrote an article about us being socialites, and
I remember thinking, I'm not a socialite, and either any
of these clowns I'm surrounded, we're not socialites. This is like,
I know enough. I've read a magazine, I've I've looked
at the cover of w magazine or heard about all

these other people. I can't stand socialites, Okay, like I
never could. Literally to want to be known for putting
your name on a ten percent off invitation at some
clothing store, pretending that's doing charity, to want to wear
a different ball down every night, to put your name
on these invitations that there's the top committee, the subcommittee,
the chair committee, the table committee, to buy a whole table,

buy a portion of a table by a chair, I mean,
and then have his rubber chicken dinner and pay some
celebrity and all this bullshit, and then be famous for
that and be like just known for what you wear
every day. I didn't understand it. It It could not have
been further for my life. Like my I kea apartment
didn't really have much bandwidth for socialites. It's so stupid.

I just still think it's so stupid. So I would
rather be the clowns that we were than be the
socialites we were being portrayed as. But for the rest
of the country they thought we were socialites. What the
hell do they know? And maybe we all were more
socialites than the losers who just want their their rich
airs and their names. You know, they happen to be
rich heirs and they're known for the temper cent off

events in Southampton. What this means people is that they
people say like, oh, you know, come for charity and
ten percent of the proceeds will go to charity. Sit
home on your ass eating pop tarts, write a check
and keep it moving, or go straight to the place
and give them the money. But this, I hate this ship.
This is like Main and Maine of what I hate.
It would be all those little pictures and all those

glossy magazines where you just wanted to see your name
and don't get it twisted. Years ago, I want I
didn't want to be a socialite, but I wanted to
be someone. I wanted my name and my picture in
Hampton's magazine because it meant I was somebody. But that's
what these people do for a living. Just their whole
life is being in those little squares with their names
underneath at different events, showing that there's somebody for a
bunch of losers. So New York magazine is saying we're socialites,

and I'm like, oh my god, that's gonna piste off
the real socialites, which it did because some of them
who happened to be legitimate, meaning their families are very
successful and they um have careers in jobs, and whether
they like it or not, they are the real social life.
They were going crazy. They're watching this and like, oh,
they can't believe that that's what's being portrayed as New York.

So this was polarizing. Which is my middle name, So
that was okay. But I'm reading this article. Make wait,
this is real. New York magazine is writing about it.
Once we saw the press the first time we took
the picture and saw the name Real Housewives. Like I said,
we were annoyed. We we didn't want to be a
second of something. We didn't think that was a good idea.
And I'm a marketer and I didn't think it was

a good idea. I didn't understand what they understood. And
they were trying to build a franchise, so there was
no leaking to the press. We didn't know what the
press was. We we like, we're just starting to meet.
We'd get invited to Okay magazine parties and you know,
people would send us some stuff like very little. You know,
we didn't weren't even really famous yet. You'd go into

the restaurant like if someone gonna recognize me? Is someone
gonna recognize me? I mean, it was all like just
starting UM and it was very New York Bay some
very like New York publicist based UM. But it was
so refreshing and interesting. It was so real. I was
coming from The Apprentice, where you never knew there was
a camera near you. You never talked to the crew,

you didn't talk to production, you didn't talk you know,
to ever your own producer. It wasn't like that you
were they were just flies on the wall capturing everything.
So I remember in the beginning shooting a scene and
Nello and getting annoyed at the other castmates thinking I
was some authority because I had been on reality television
saying no, just like because I wanted people just to
be real, just to talk, don't talk to the producers.

That just seemed preposterous to me, right And also the
reason that Brobo didn't want me on. Andy Cohen didn't
want me on was because I was already on a
reality show, so I had some slight and basically no awareness,
like I was nobody. But to him that was you
had a pre existing profile, meaning they wanted it to

be real. They wanted to be real people in New
York that are not famous, that didn't have a pre
existing profile. They would never have wanted all the Beverly
Hills actresses. That's why Lisa were didn't get on for years.
And he used to say to me no, and he didn't.
He wasn't interested in her. And I used to say
she'd be great. They didn't. They didn't want um. But
I know Kyle was originally an actress, but she hadn't

acted in a long time, and they originally wanted her
and the sisters, but that changed after a couple of
My show then then Atlanta. It increasingly became about a
pre existing profile because again there was no social media.
So now restaurants higre waitresses and bartenders based on Instagram followers.

So of course to hire an actress that hasn't built
in social media following is going to help the show.
But when I was on, it was so authentic and
that we were just all people like talking and judging
and the biggest thing that what ever happened, was that
Kelly Bensimon would say I'm up here, you're down here. Now,
that would never be the biggest thing that would happen. Now,
that was a major thing. Then that was like top,

That was the top of the heap, like one of
Andy's most iconic, most favorite chilling scenes because of how
you know, less was more was the intensity and the
audacity to say something like that. Now people are throwing
artificial legs, ripping weaves, and you know, probably driving their
car into your window. For ratings, it just was not

the same story. So it had an authenticity and a freshness.
And to be perfectly honest, the arguments with Jill and
Ramona and with Jill and Simon all that it was
train wreckish and it was a disaster, but it was authentic.
There was something authentic about it. Even though I didn't
like what the show became and I watched it happened
after the first couple of seasons, I enjoyed being part

of it because it was so much satire. And at
that point, I didn't know the show that I was in.
I was just being me with a camera on me
because there was no comp oh C. It was not
a comp And I didn't even want no o C
because I didn't know I was shooting a season of
the next iteration of O C. I thought I was
shooting some some show and I don't watch TV, so

it was so fresh. And Andy will definitely reinforce this concept.
And he used to say that I was the Greek chorus.
I was the narrator of the show. I was the
one telling the people in the audience what the Hamptons
is like, you know what I mean. I was sitting
in that chair in my no makeup, cablenet pre owned
sweater saying what the Hamptons was. I'm like, it's where
everybody packs like they're leaving to Anta Arcticle for six months,

and what packs every piece of ship that they have
in their car goes to see all the same people
they see in New York City, arrives to the Hampton's
and does the same exact thing if I can do
in New York City, but by the beach, like just
narrating it. Okay, so the show is I guess the
success and I remember Jill's Aaron and not knowing what

to do about the money I had agreed to seven thousand,
two fifty dollars for the whole season. Ramona once corrected
me and said that that was for twelve episodes. If
we did more episodes, it was more, but it was pennies.
But I said, except you can't take any of my business. Ever.
Don't know why I was so smart to say that.
Don't know why I crossed that out. I do know
anything about contracts. Adjusted that which is the preamble to
what ended up happening with the Skinny Girl Margarita and

it being infuriating to the network and created what is
now called the Bethany clause, where anybody on television working
in that capacity has to give a percentage to the network.
The talent will all say that they don't pay that
it's not true. They all do. Bravo was confirmed it
he's confirmed it. Every agent knows it's the Bethany clause.
It just is what it is. Okay, so we're on

this show. We don't know what we're on. We don't
know what's happening. It had an authenticity to it. Starts
to calm season two and three. People are getting a
little bit hip to the jib. There's a little bit
of connection to the media. We sort of know, you know,
the press. People understand that they can call Page six.
People understand that you can so of leak something and
wrap somebody else out. And that's when it sort of started.
It was the biggest deal in the world to everybody

that Alex McCord had nude pictures somewhere. That would literally
be like someone having spinach in their teeth. Now, um,
it was you know, Alex and Simon were totally unique,
and that they were from Brooklyn and that was like
a foreign country to all of us. Um. Second, and
then it's second it started. What starts to happen is
if one person gets something, um other people. Let's say

one person gets sent something for free the other women,
then you know, call that company directly and say, I
know you sent that person something. Can you send me something.
One person gets something on TV I got. I got
to co host the Today's Show, and I got there
and they said, your castmates called up here saying, why
not me, We're much better than her. Like the competition started,

you really have to keep your cards close to the
vest because now you know that the other women are
starting to get jealous of things that you're getting and
not getting. And now it starts to get ugly. Now
it's not fresh. Now it's not what it was. I
was the first housewife on Twitter because one of my
assistants told me that I should be on Twitter. That
was the first thing. But still it wasn't used for
what it's used for today. It wasn't like a way

to just trash each other. That came way later. Like
we were pioneers in the beginning of this genre of
what was going on, and it was fresh and unique.
After a couple of seasons, three seasons, it got a
little toxic. It got where you're bringing things into the
show intentionally to gotcha, to catch someone. Keep in mind,
also this is pre watch What Happens Live. Watch What

Happens Live is a place where the intention of the
show is to gotcha and to bring housewives on and
to ask polls of the audience about who's a piece
of ship and who's not. The questions can be did
you believe that you know Teresa Giadic really had a
snake skin top before you know Dina Manzo? Or did

you not? Like? That? Question? Really means whose side are
you on? You know, someone's always winning, someone's always losing.
So as this thing went on after a couple of seasons,
you start to realize, Oh, this is Hunger Games, this
is Game of Thrones. I'm supposed to rat anybody else
out about anything I know about them, and they're doing
the same thing at all times. So there's always somebody

winning and always somebody losing. That's when it starts to
be Wow, do I want to be a part of this?
You know I'm not better than this, but this is
going to be a totally different kind of ride, you know.
Season two, Season three, Jill's Aaron wisely said to me,
what do I do? How do I have a product?
How do you know what you want to do? How
do I market something? And I'm like, it has to

be authentic to you. Make it be something to do
with your fabrics or your pillows. But I was the
first person overall. I think Jonathan Anton on a show
called Blowout might have had products. I don't know. If
I don't think Rachel Zoe had a book back then,
she might have had one book. I was the first
person on reality television to monetize it in that way,
the first person to showcase that, including the Kardashians, to

showcase that medium as a commercial, because I started that
whole thing, like really on that level after my Skinny
Girl deal. Kim Kardashian did a Madory deal when when
um she turned down my Skinny Girl partner, uh for
fifty dollars to do a Coco local rum years prior

to Midori because she didn't drink. Everybody got hip hip
to it when I did it, but after I did it,
so I was using this as a platform. I was
the first one, that is a fact. But Joe's Arram
is smart enough to ask me how to do it.
The other girls started watching and wanting to do it also,
which is also very smart. You know, I paved that way,
and most people you know that have been around that
long know that Bravo knows that. But you know, Jill

said to me I'll do whatever you do. I'll trust
you to negotiate for me. And we went from the
first season to a lot more money, like literally a
lot more money, to the second season, same thing, to
the third season, like I got us a lot more
money than anybody else on our show. You know. Then
we all were feeling few sing it when Jersey was
coming in, Atlanta was coming and I remember Jill thinking

that wasn't you know, we were socialites from New York
and they might wouldn't represent what the Housewives really is about.
That Atlanta wouldn't, that Jersey wouldn't because it's Jersey, and
you know, there was There's always been a lot of
talk of things like that, right, So I decided to
leave after the third season when it got what I
felt to be ugly, when it got to be gotcha what?
And this is still before I believe I'm positive, fairly positive,

before I watch it happens live. So when I left,
I really left. I did not want to go back.
You can't forget where you came from. So I'm definitely
going to talk about it. That's uh, just a tip
of the iceberg of what I have to say about
this topic. So more the next time for sure.
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