August 16, 2023 • 42 mins
A woman’s voice is very powerful. Now Rachel is using hers to tell her own story…for the first time…
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:12):
Hi, Hi. First thing I have to ask is how
are you.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
I'm okay. I'm hanging in there.
Speaker 3 (00:21):
It's been a whirlwind, it's been chaos, but I've taken
some time to myself to reflect and try to understand
my actions, and I finally have come to the place
where it makes sense to me.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
Wow, so quieting all the noise going away, disconnecting really
gave you, and getting help really gave you clarity.
Speaker 3 (00:50):
Yeah, I part of the reason why I wanted to
take some time away, It's just because it was so
chaotic and loud, and there was such vitriol online. But
then the other part of the reason why I wanted
to go to a treatment facility was to understand my behaviors.
(01:12):
And my goal was to really get down to the
bottom of Okay, why am I choosing men that are unavailable?
Why do I keep finding myself in unhealthy relationships? What
are the things that I need to change about my behavior?
(01:32):
And in knowing that I needed to make a change,
I first had to know what it was that leads
to those behaviors. So the place of wounding.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
I used to have a therapist that called it my
place of wounding, Like whatever your thing is in your
life that just holds you back. So how did we
get here? From your perspective? Because I never I've never
watched vander Pump Rules until I took interest in you.
I saw clips online and in the back of my
(02:08):
head had an opinion about what was going on, and
it seemed disproportionate to me. I was watching clips on
social media and hearing about this scand of all that
had a name was being marketed and it was being
pumped through the PR machine, and I did say everyone,
I think I made one comment about it, saying, everybody's
going to be more well known than they were before
(02:30):
because of this. And my mind was, they're on a
reality show. It's set in a bar, was what. I think.
It's fueled by alcohol and partying and multiple affairs. So what, respectfully,
what the hell is the big deal that everyone's talking about,
Like I didn't watch. I just saw online being like,
what this is so gigantic, Like the guy, the girl
(02:53):
wasn't married, the couple wasn't married, no one had kids,
like so that was just in the back of my mind,
not knowing you, not knowing the show, and I started
to talk about this reality reckoning and this concept that
was just an off the cuff thing that I said
about exploitation without compensation, and I said, your name just
as an example of what I imagined to be somebody
(03:15):
who had been exploited and for the rest of your life,
that content will be out there without compensation. And that
was like where I left it, and that's so. And
then your representative reached out to me, so that was like,
that's my perspective, and I wanted to know what your
side was.
Speaker 3 (03:32):
It's so nice to have you validate that experience, because
for a moment, I thought I was going crazy. And
it's true reality TV is it's edited, it is contrived
to create a certain storyline, and so it's not all factual.
(03:55):
So as a viewer tuning in, it's easy to get
wrapped up and then the concept of an affair hits home.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
It's really hard to a lot of people.
Speaker 3 (04:07):
So I think there was a lot of projection happening,
a lot of emotions that came up for people, and
unfortunately I was the punching bag for a lot of that.
I do want to take a moment, though, to I
do want to take a moment to just acknowledge the
(04:30):
hurt that I brought to a lot of people. I
was not careful in my actions and I was not
thinking long term. I was completely wrapped up in heartbreak
and wanting to get certain needs met. Looking back now,
I can see that I was still healing from a
(04:54):
relationship from somebody who I thought I was going to marry,
and in ending that I still haven't healed yet. So
when I was filming, I was drinking a lot to
ease that anxiety, and in a reality TV environment, I
wasn't getting that safe space for me to express my
(05:21):
emotions in a healthy way.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
It's funny because I often say the game is moving
too fast, and people say to me, to you, didn't
you sign up for this? And we're going to get
into that, But it's very difficult for anyone, including even
someone close to it like an Andy Cohen, to understand
what it's like to be on a reality show. It
(05:44):
seems like a great idea to drink because everything's moving
so fast and there are cameras and you might say
something and you're in your head knowing you've said or
done something that's bad, but nobody stops down. So it's
like when you see those fast flashes in Tokyo or something.
Everything is coming at you so quickly and it's hard
to stop down. And then you also don't know what's
going to be manufactured in the kitchen and served. So
(06:06):
while what you're doing is real, it's real what's happening
in the moment, but it's a manufactured scenario because you
wouldn't necessarily be associating with all of these people having
these conversations, and it's a circular reference. So I really
I understand, I mean, and your show is way crazier,
way younger, way more alcohol, So I get it. So
(06:28):
how does it feel to be able to just tell
your story with your own voice? Right?
Speaker 3 (06:33):
Oh my gosh, it feels like I have this opportunity
to share how much I've grown and how hard I'm
trying to be a better person.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
That person that I saw.
Speaker 3 (06:47):
Watching back on my TV was someone who's completely out
of character from who I truly am, and so I
feel like having this opportunity to share my side of
the story and to represent myself in a way that
I feel like is true to who I am, is
(07:08):
all I could ever ask for.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
So you were born Rachel, and then at some point
you didn't legally, but you just wanted to be called Raquel,
and now you're going back to Rachel. What is the
big problem with that? What is it? Because I see
so many people that have stage names, or you lived
in la or on a TV show. Maybe you wanted
to have a different identity. What is the big problem
(07:32):
and what is the truth about that?
Speaker 3 (07:34):
So I changed my name to Raquel in first grade.
There's a few other Rachel's in my class, and I
wanted to be special, right. I also feel like, deep
down I wasn't comfortable in my own skin. I wanted
to be somebody better in my eyes, So Raquel was
a way for me to kind of be that person.
(07:56):
The name has stuck ever since. My friends are always
called me Raquel and my family called me Rachel, so
I respond to both. During therapy, we were doing some
inner child work where you typically write with your left hand,
and my therapist asked me to write my name on
the whiteboard and I wrote Rachel and she was like, interesting,
(08:19):
I see.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
You as Rachel.
Speaker 3 (08:22):
To your core, You're going by Raquel, which is okay,
but it's not true to who you are.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
It's a wall that you have.
Speaker 3 (08:31):
A persona it's I mean, maybe I feel like most
of my life I've been afraid. I've had I've struggled
with social anxiety, I've struggled with judgment from other people.
So having a fear of vulnerability makes sense. So I'm
(08:53):
really just trying to come back to my roots. And
I am introducing myself as Rachel Nice.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
So nice, Okay, Well, welcome Rachel. I want to know
about your family, like who got you through this? And well, actually, first,
are you close with your family? Have you always been
close with your family?
Speaker 3 (09:14):
Yeah? I have. Yeah, I'm very close with my family.
My parents are still married and we have.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
A really tight knit family. You know, my mom is
a little bit she's a mama bear.
Speaker 3 (09:32):
She's very torn up about this situation, and she says
that she relates to you a lot. Whatever you're saying online.
She's like, yeah, Bethany gets it, you know.
Speaker 1 (09:43):
So it's.
Speaker 3 (09:46):
Yeah, it's really hard for her, and I feel that
pain for her because I put our family in this situation.
That's a very hard dynamic to navigate. But she's been
so supportive and both my parents have been They were
(10:12):
able to make this treatment happen for me, and I'm
so blessed that I had that opportunity to go and
to extend into ninety days because I knew I wasn't
ready to leave yet. I knew I had more work
to do, and I just feel so lucky that I
(10:33):
was able to learn about myself at such a young age.
Speaker 1 (10:38):
In retrospect, Wow, that's so that's very It's so true.
You could be my daughter. I've thought about that many
times in watching the reunion, which we're going to get into,
and I thought about, I would probably be in jail
for murder if I were your mom, Like I was
wondering if you were feeling guilty for quote unquote putting
(10:59):
them through this. Absolutely, yeah, because that probably took a
toll on your whole family. And what about your childhood
friends and what's been that like, like your whole real infrastructure.
Speaker 3 (11:12):
My childhood friends are the only people that I can
talk to and trust. Unfortunately, there have been so many
betrayals of friendships who I trusted and disclosed confidential information
to thinking that they would hold that value of keeping
(11:32):
it in the vaults, and then they turn around and
disclosed those things to the press. And it's been really
difficult to accept that I don't have friends in LA anymore.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
Has anyone defended you.
Speaker 3 (11:51):
There's a few people that have, but most of the
people that weren't posting negative things online were getting harassed
to you post something. And one of my friends reached
out and said, I'm so sorry, I have to unfollow
you because I'm getting such hate for even following you.
Speaker 1 (12:10):
Wow. Okay, So let me just read really quickly or
Instagram apology. You said, I want to apologize my actions
and my choices, foremost to Arianna and to my friends
and the fans so invested in our relationships. There's no excuse.
I'm not a victim. I must own my actions, and
I deeply regret hurting Ariana. In the time since this
came to light, I'm reflecting on my choices, speaking to
(12:31):
a counselor, and I'm learning things about myself, such as
my patterns of codependency and addiction to being and feeling loved.
You said that you sought validation through intimate connections and
that you've began counseling, and kind of what you said before.
So was this whole apology? Is this whole apology as
accurate now coming out of treatment as it was then
(12:52):
did you feel like you had to say this because
the you just had to say something? And is this
a full authentic apology based on where you are now?
Speaker 3 (13:02):
Yes, I still stand by that apology.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
It is.
Speaker 3 (13:07):
Full circle in a way, talking about that need to
be validated and that wanting to be loved there it
took me a while to accept, but I learned about
love addiction, and it's a real thing. It's where you
confuse intensity for intimacy.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
The pheromones and the oxytocin and all those things that
I called oxytosin that yeah.
Speaker 3 (13:33):
And those chemical changes in the brain are the same
chemical changes that happens when you take drugs. So it
is addictive and it explains why I couldn't stop seeing
this person, But it also doesn't excuse the fact that
it happened.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
But now I know better, and.
Speaker 1 (13:56):
Also it went okay. So I I remember planning a
wedding on a reality television show, and I don't know
that I would have done that if I weren't on
a reality television show. Everything's bigger, Like I said, the
train is moving, the train has left the station, and
everybody's talking to you, and there's so much messaging. So
you're in this flurry and we'll get into this, but
(14:19):
it feels like that environment that you were in celebrates
affairs and scandal. It seems like that show is thriving
because of that. So it seems like you're in a
world where that's all kind of It's bad in normal life,
but there with producers and everybody, that's good. An affair
is great for TV.
Speaker 3 (14:36):
Yeah, and with the cast, it's almost been normalized in
a way. And so as I'm looking up to my
fellow cast members and seeing them as role models and
like how to make a good reality TV show because
I want to do my job, Well, it's uncanny to
(14:58):
see the I hate that this specific affair brought up
in people when almost every single one of the cast
members have.
Speaker 2 (15:12):
Been in an affair.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
Yeah, it just hit sideways somehow that you were in
the perfect storm. And I'm not saying that you weren't responsible,
and you're accepting I think at least partial responsibility. But
there's a lot going on. So I want to just
talk about the facility before we get into the show.
So what happens. We can get into the reunion after,
(15:34):
but you leave a reunion and then what happens you
walk out of this reunion that I have since seen?
How do you get into a facility and how does
this all transpire?
Speaker 3 (15:43):
So I walked out of the reunion. There was a
few days before I did my final interview, which is
that five minute at the end of season ten where
I break down. And you know, that was really difficult
for me because I was committed to keeping these secrets
(16:04):
and I felt like I betrayed all of my friendships
and relationships with everyone except for Tom, and by going
behind his back, that would be the ultimate betrayal in
my eyes from my perspective.
Speaker 1 (16:23):
So you mean you had alienated everyone and then you
were going to alienate him?
Speaker 3 (16:26):
Yes, okay, So it's really like that fear of abandonment.
It was really hard for me to, you know, decide,
like am I am I going to take this story
to the grave when most people already are assuming the
worst anyway? Or am I going to own up to
(16:47):
my actions and be honest and really take accountability. And
in that moment, I wasn't even able to be fully
honest because I was still keeping secrets for people who
specifically requested for me to like keep it on the
down low, especially going to visit his family and his
(17:09):
friends out in Saint Louis.
Speaker 2 (17:11):
So it really just showed me that.
Speaker 3 (17:19):
Honesty is one of my core values that I refuse
to compromise any longer.
Speaker 1 (17:27):
Okay, so that's Rachel talking now, because there was some
dishonesty from your previous action. So this is sort of
your saying, like, that's the main tenant now going forward,
like honesty will not be compromised. Correct, And there are
many different reasons for why you were dishonest. You're taking accountability,
but there also were many ingredients that contributed to Okay, well,
(17:49):
we're definitely going to talk about it. Oh, so what
happened at the facility? Like you, so, how do you
get to the facility? You go do that? Didn't interview?
(18:10):
And then how do we get to the facility? What
was that decision? Like who made it? And then.
Speaker 3 (18:16):
It was a really scary decision to make because I
knew I needed help, but I didn't know what to
expect going in. I had the option to go straight
into the treatment facility before the reunion, but I decided
to commit to my work obligation and go back and film.
(18:40):
But once I filmed the reunion and did that final interview.
I took a flight to Phoenix and went straight to
the treatment center.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
They took my.
Speaker 3 (18:55):
Phone, they searched my bags for anything that they needed
to confiscate, and I was kind of thrown into this
place where it was a lot of new faces, and
I was already caring so much shame that it was
difficult for me to be like, Hi, I'm Raquel. But
(19:17):
as time went on, I was able to warm up
and really share my story in an authentic, honest way,
and I was met with grace and compassion from my peers.
And a big part of my journey is learning to
be compassionate with myself as well.
Speaker 1 (19:38):
So do you forgive yourself? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (19:42):
I do.
Speaker 1 (19:43):
Okay, So now we're onto the show, which I you
know what, First of all, what made you talk to me?
I mean, everybody I would assume want to talk to
you haven't spoken in months. We don't know each other,
and that take some blind faith, some trust.
Speaker 2 (20:02):
So why me, Bethany? You are a force to be
reckoned with.
Speaker 3 (20:06):
And I just heard what you were saying on TikTok
and using my example as using my case as an
example of exploitation and the way that the network is
running to the bank, like laughing, running to the bank
with this scandal, and I haven't seen a single penny.
(20:29):
So in that way, I feel like, I it's not fair,
and I feel like a toddler saying it's not fair,
but it really isn't. And I feel like I've been
portrayed as the ultimate villain my mistakes that I made
on camera Live on Forever, and you mentioned something about
(20:52):
the addiction of doing reality TV and the way that
they always dingle that care in front of you, like, well,
you need to tell your side of the story otherwise
it's going to be written for you, and that's terrifying.
So I almost went back because of that.
Speaker 1 (21:09):
What happens is to give people inside baseball, and I
have institutional knowledge of fifteen years, what happens is somebody
could have a great season and everyone loves them, and
you're feeding off of that. That's the drug, that's the heroine.
You've taken the drug, you got the hit, and then
all of a sudden something happens and the pendulum swings.
Because I always say it's a zero sum game. Someone's
(21:29):
always winning, someone's always losing. Someone's always killing, someone's always
being killed. The people that end up in the middle
get fired or or friends. The people that are in
the middle under the radar. You got to be getting
killed or killing somebody. So if you are winning, you're
on top of the world and it seems great, and
then all of a sudden you go to the bottom.
(21:51):
And that's like an addict who hits rock bottom. And
what do they want to do. They want to take
another hit. And the producers are there, and this is
a fact to tell you, you know why you should go back.
Don't let them tell your story for you. You get to
go back and you'll show them all next season. And
that's how they get people who are miserable and on
antidepressants and anti anxiety medication to go back in not
(22:13):
to mention, many people ruin their reputations, and this is
the only place that we'll have them. You have fifty
five sixty year old women who couldn't really work anywhere
else much less, have ruined their reputations. So this is
a place that will take you back. And because if
you do drugs or get drunk or having an a fair,
you get paid more. You're celebrated, so it's about this institution,
(22:36):
this system that I've been talking and I really do
understand what you're saying, and it occurs to me that
you're the villain, Arianna is the hero. Tom is another
character who doesn't take the hit as much as you
in this scand of all, but you're right, the realm
is making a lot of money. And now it took
(22:57):
three of you in a recipe to create that scandal
as people who are partially produced. Let's just say that
it's real in a very unreal circumstance and also produced.
So now you have one of the three characters that
can't even afford to pay for your treatment that you
just went through, right, because it's my understanding that you
(23:19):
get paid in a year less than my interns get paid.
Speaker 3 (23:23):
Really yeah, yeah, And one of the things that producers
also told me is that you get paid based off
of your performance from the season prior, so that already
set me up to want to perform well. Going into
season ten, I was like, Okay, if this could be
(23:44):
my season, I could really stand out and I'm single
for the first time, like I want to embrace that, and.
Speaker 2 (23:54):
I took direction.
Speaker 1 (23:56):
Well, yeah, you don't ever know how you're doing game,
because the producer is telling both people, the person killing
and being killed that they're doing a great job. So
you never know until what comes out of the oven. Yeah,
I mean, so that talking about the show, I really
want to talk about let's be really honest about the relationships.
(24:17):
So I have made relationships on reality television and it's
not a healthy place to nurture a relationship. It's not
a place to bring a relationship in, which is why
many marriages have failed. And it's not I'm not saying
it's because of reality TV, but it certainly hasn't helped.
And then friendships you see very unlikely friendships, and the Housewives,
(24:39):
you'd see someone like Carol Radziwill and Tinsley Mortimer or
Jill Zarn and Kelly Bensone, very unlikely friendships because you
need alliances. It started back with Survivor. So you have
these friendships and they do seem and feel real, and
they kind of are real because you're really connecting and
you're having fun, and you're also have someone to talk
(24:59):
to this weird thing that no one else in the
world and your childhood friends would never understand. So it's
all you talk about you're on a loop and you
think the whole world is like this, and the whole
world knows what's going on, And so I ask you
about this friendship, all of the friendships, and then I
guess the friendship with Arianna because being your best friend
is coming into question, and that's you know, the world
(25:22):
thinks you slept with your best friend's boyfriend of ten years.
Speaker 3 (25:27):
Yes, that is the narrative that is being written for me.
It is more salacious that way. Arianna and I were
not best friends. We were acquaintances who became friends through
the show. She's always been somebody who's been very sweet
to me. She would stand up for me and encourage
(25:50):
me to pursue whatever I was.
Speaker 1 (25:53):
I don't know she's doing.
Speaker 3 (25:55):
Yeah, she would encourage me to pursue whatever I was pursuing.
Speaker 2 (25:59):
And that was all great.
Speaker 3 (26:01):
But we never had like a deep conversation that I
would have with a best friend. And it's painful to
think that I hurt her in this way because that
wasn't my intention. I wasn't trying to be a malicious person.
I just got wrapped up in this and wasn't thinking clearly.
(26:27):
But we were not best friends. The alliances who I
called these people my friends because I really did believe
that they were my friends.
Speaker 1 (26:38):
It feels real and it kind of is real in
that environment.
Speaker 3 (26:41):
Yes, so Sheena was one of my best friends. She
offered her apartment to me to stay in while I
was figuring out my next moves after breaking up with James.
She kept this apartment in LA but wasn't living it
because she was living down in San Diego. But she
(27:04):
started creating this narrative that she was a sister I
never had, and the mother like a mother to me,
and that she gave me a place to live when
nobody else would, you know, put me up anywhere, and
that I didn't pay rent, which is not true.
Speaker 2 (27:22):
I did pay rent.
Speaker 3 (27:23):
And I also cat sat for her cat who was
pumped with mercury for a treatment. She couldn't be near
the cat because she was breastfeeding for her daughter. And
I also did her podcasts, and she said the one
podcast that I did with her talking about my breakup
(27:44):
with James was the number one most listened to podcast.
Speaker 2 (27:48):
So I know that.
Speaker 3 (27:53):
It's just unfortunate that she's trying to create this narrative
that I've taken advantage of her when I feel like
I did contribute in a way that would really.
Speaker 1 (28:05):
You're saying, you're saying it was a quid pro quote.
It was a mutual beneficial, mutually beneficial relationship within within
a television show, which is all murky anyway, right, So
how sorry are you to Arianna? And you know, do
you what do you? What do you make of all
of that? Is she? Do you think she'll ever forgive you?
(28:25):
Do you care about that? Where are you with that part?
Speaker 3 (28:30):
I don't expect her to forgive me. I think once
trust is broken with somebody from personal experience, it's really
hard to come back from that. And the fact that
I was able to keep those secrets from her, I
don't I don't expect her to ever forgive me, but
I you know, I am remorseful. I do recognize that
(28:54):
I've caused her a lot of pain. And there was
a lot of secrecy deception because although I wasn't hanging
out with Arianna off camera to begin with, I did
start hanging out with her in a group setting because
Tom would always invite me out. So it did seem
(29:17):
like we were close friends from the outside looking in,
But in those situations. I was hanging out with Tom
more than I was hanging out with her.
Speaker 1 (29:30):
So did you spend time Did you ever spend time
with Ariana off camera and away from the show.
Speaker 2 (29:34):
No, not just us together?
Speaker 1 (29:37):
Never? No, Wow, that's something I mean. Yeah, you definitely
would have seen your best friend, Yeah, off camera, but
a whole life, like.
Speaker 3 (29:46):
I don't know, go out to dinner just the two
of you, or shopping or punch.
Speaker 1 (29:52):
No, yes, okay, So how much do you think their
relationship is real Tom and Ariana?
Speaker 2 (30:14):
I honestly, I don't know.
Speaker 3 (30:18):
I know I would not be involved in this a
fair secrecy type of situation if I thought that there
was longevity in this relationship between Tom and Ariana. The
people closest to them could see that their relationship hasn't
(30:38):
been what they portray on camera. And Tom always told me, like,
they're a brand, they're an image. They work together to
make brand deals, and they are business partners.
Speaker 1 (30:56):
Are they business partners literally or just you mean in
the show being like a duo on the show.
Speaker 3 (31:01):
They're a duo on the show, and they utilize that
for the success of their brand or image.
Speaker 1 (31:08):
Got it? And do they live together now? Still?
Speaker 2 (31:11):
They do still live together.
Speaker 1 (31:14):
I don't you have to explain that to me. You
don't know, but I don't understand. How does America know that?
Speaker 3 (31:19):
Yes, yes, America does know that, and people are confused
as to why they're still living together. I actually gave
Tom the key to my apartment while I was away
at the Meadows, and he had a free place to
stay and chose to stay in the house with Arianna.
Speaker 1 (31:39):
I mean they both can afford a place or go
rent a place.
Speaker 2 (31:41):
I I don't know.
Speaker 3 (31:43):
I know that a lot of his money was wrapped
up in the bar shorts and Sandy's, and I know
that Arianna has been doing a lot of brand deals. Yeah,
I don't know their situation, but I do know that
it really isn't that so prising that they're living together
in my eyes, because it's been this way. They haven't
(32:04):
been an authentic couple romantic.
Speaker 1 (32:10):
So it doesn't matter. So their roommates and it doesn't matter,
it doesn't it's not as deep, and so the breakup
isn't as deep either. And now seeing that she's doing
millions of dollars of deals, so it takes three to
tango and scandaal And how does it, honestly feel seeing
that she's doing all of these deals and is America's
(32:31):
sweetheart and all these appearances and doing the talk show
circuit and things like.
Speaker 3 (32:36):
That, part of me says, good for you, because take
advantage of these opportunities while they come your way.
Speaker 2 (32:44):
But it is hurtful to me just to think that.
Speaker 3 (32:51):
My nature is very kind and forgiving and understanding of
other people. So the concept of me being the ultimate
reality TV villain just blows my mind. And the way
that she spoke to me at the reunion, I feel
like it was uncalled for.
Speaker 1 (33:14):
It was too far. Yeah, yeah, I mean the thing is,
I think, and we're gonna get into the reunion because
that's where I really became invested in this as a concept,
and I'm speechless about the reunion. But what I wanted
to ask you was, is it more don't hate the player?
(33:35):
Hate the game? Like you don't blame all of the
warriors like yourself, who are there to get ratings and
to kill people or be killed, and to cheat and
to drink and to have affairs and think it's real
and normal because that's this landscape. But you blame the game.
Speaker 3 (33:51):
Is that how you feel I feel like I just
got caught up in something that is way too big
for me to handle, and I'm just trying to survive.
So I don't know who people should hate. That's up
to their discretion.
Speaker 1 (34:06):
But I oh, I didn't mean literally. I meant like right,
But I mean.
Speaker 3 (34:09):
I think like being knowledgeable on all the factors that
play into reality TV is important because there's so much
that is brushed, brushed under the rug and hidden from
the viewers that it's easy to consume this narrative that's
being thrown at you.
Speaker 1 (34:28):
Yeah, so I want to talk about this tape this
face time. I can't imagine what your parents went through
about that. There's a video, so your facetiming Tom. You're
in New York and Tom is in LA and you're
masturbating and he's recording you, and you don't know that
(34:49):
you're being recorded, correct, Okay, And then that tell me
what happened with this video that I now know about.
So I don't understand what happened.
Speaker 3 (34:59):
I was in New New York for Watch What Happens
Live the night before All of our the night before
our big press day and the live interview with Andy Cohen.
I decided to be adventurous and look at the adult
section on the TV, and Tom and I FaceTime a lot,
(35:20):
so it turned into something more of an intimate face time.
I expected to have privacy in that moment, so that happened.
The entire day is a success in my eyes. And
(35:41):
I was celebrating with Shena after watch What Happens Live,
and I looked at my hairstylist and I was like,
you know what, I'm ready for anything, whatever happens. I
feel like I just leveled up and I'm killing it
and I can handle anything. Literally five minutes later, I
(36:02):
get a text from Ariana sending me two screen recording,
two screen recorded videos and a text that said you're
dead to me, And that's how I knew that she
knew what day was that this was March first.
Speaker 1 (36:23):
Of twenty twenty three, okay, yes, and so that's like
five months ago, okay.
Speaker 3 (36:28):
And then also that's how I found out that I
had been recorded without my consent, So of course all
of these emotions came flooded, flooding over me. She called
me and she was yelling at me and begged to
(36:52):
know when it first started.
Speaker 1 (36:54):
Was she being filmed? When she asked that no, okay.
Speaker 3 (36:56):
This was all off camera. We had already wrapped filming,
and because she had that video, I was scared for
you know, I was scared that it was gonna be leaked.
Speaker 1 (37:13):
And it was a graphic like you could see.
Speaker 3 (37:15):
I mean, it was It's not something that I would
ever want my grandma to see you now, yeah, right,
or your kids, yeah exactly. So I felt pressured in
that moment. And one of the reasons why, one of
the reasons why it went on for so long this
affair is because Tom and I couldn't come to a
(37:39):
resolution on the timeline of it all because Tom didn't
want Ariana to know how long it actually had been
going on and felt like it would hurt her more
if she knew that this happened during the summer. This
was summer of twenty twenty two. Oh so this went
on for a while seven month? Oh okay, yeah, So
(38:01):
I told she begged to know. I told Ariana that
it had been happening for seven months, and she flipped out.
This is also while Tom was Tom was performing his
hit new single in West Hollywood at Tom Tom So
(38:24):
everyone was there. Lisa vander Pump was there and his
phone just happened to fall out of his pocket while
he was performing. He didn't change his password, even though
at this time he said that they were broken up officially.
And then he also left the video in his camera role.
Speaker 1 (38:45):
Wait, this is what you believe or this is what
was said?
Speaker 3 (38:48):
This is what I know, because this is what has
been said by Tom and by Ariana.
Speaker 1 (38:57):
That the phone fell out of his pocket. Yes, and
you believe that.
Speaker 2 (39:01):
I don't even know what to believe anymore.
Speaker 1 (39:04):
Okay, So the phone fell out of his pocket and
she then picked it up and put his password in
and or did you didn't have his face ID? And
then found a video that was on the front of
his phone for her to see.
Speaker 3 (39:17):
Yes, a mutual friend picked it up gave it to
Ariana because Thomas still performing. She had this gut instinct
she said to look through the phone. And she just
looked through the camera role and there was the video.
Speaker 1 (39:32):
And okay, and who else has seen that?
Speaker 3 (39:40):
I it seems to be that a lot of people
have seen it, despite my immediate season desist letter that
went out. She some of Arianna's friends have described the
video in great detail online and she also sent it
(40:04):
to me, so I don't know who else she sent
it to. I wouldn't be surprised if she sent it
to other people, but it's not legal.
Speaker 1 (40:15):
Right, And other people have said to you that they've
seen it. Yeah, okay, So do you mind if I
ask how old you are? I'm twenty eight, you're twenty eight.
So have you had many relationships before reality television?
Speaker 3 (40:30):
No? I had an unofficial boyfriend who is scared of
commitment in college, and that was my first love, my
first I love you to somebody. And then I met James.
And I met James and I was twenty one. I
was in this like DJ phase where I was like
(40:53):
into the DJ and try to get up on stage
and whatever. And when I met him, he had this
like charming British accent, and so I fell like in
love with James. We did long distance for two years
and then we lived together for three years.
Speaker 1 (41:13):
But you've had your major significant relationships in your life
have been on reality television?
Speaker 3 (41:17):
Yes? Wow? Yes?
Speaker 1 (41:19):
Okay? So were you what you believed to be in
love with Tom?
Speaker 3 (41:25):
I believed I was in love with Tom at the time.
I now look back on it and see that I
was not in love with him. I also don't believe
that he truly was in love with me either. Okay,
it was we had this connection that I felt seen
and heard by him that I haven't really had that
(41:48):
connection with other people on the cast, nor people in
my real life.
Speaker 2 (41:54):
So it was like.
Speaker 3 (41:57):
I was filming in a tumultuous environment. I was needing
some validation and somebody to hear what I was going through.
And here comes along Tom, who really gave me that
time of day to share my side of the story
(42:17):
in a non judgment zone, and that's exactly what I
needed in that moment.
Hi, Hi. First thing I have to ask is how
are you.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
I'm okay. I'm hanging in there.
Speaker 3 (00:21):
It's been a whirlwind, it's been chaos, but I've taken
some time to myself to reflect and try to understand
my actions, and I finally have come to the place
where it makes sense to me.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
Wow, so quieting all the noise going away, disconnecting really
gave you, and getting help really gave you clarity.
Speaker 3 (00:50):
Yeah, I part of the reason why I wanted to
take some time away, It's just because it was so
chaotic and loud, and there was such vitriol online. But
then the other part of the reason why I wanted
to go to a treatment facility was to understand my behaviors.
(01:12):
And my goal was to really get down to the
bottom of Okay, why am I choosing men that are unavailable?
Why do I keep finding myself in unhealthy relationships? What
are the things that I need to change about my behavior?
(01:32):
And in knowing that I needed to make a change,
I first had to know what it was that leads
to those behaviors. So the place of wounding.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
I used to have a therapist that called it my
place of wounding, Like whatever your thing is in your
life that just holds you back. So how did we
get here? From your perspective? Because I never I've never
watched vander Pump Rules until I took interest in you.
I saw clips online and in the back of my
(02:08):
head had an opinion about what was going on, and
it seemed disproportionate to me. I was watching clips on
social media and hearing about this scand of all that
had a name was being marketed and it was being
pumped through the PR machine, and I did say everyone,
I think I made one comment about it, saying, everybody's
going to be more well known than they were before
(02:30):
because of this. And my mind was, they're on a
reality show. It's set in a bar, was what. I think.
It's fueled by alcohol and partying and multiple affairs. So what, respectfully,
what the hell is the big deal that everyone's talking about,
Like I didn't watch. I just saw online being like,
what this is so gigantic, Like the guy, the girl
(02:53):
wasn't married, the couple wasn't married, no one had kids,
like so that was just in the back of my mind,
not knowing you, not knowing the show, and I started
to talk about this reality reckoning and this concept that
was just an off the cuff thing that I said
about exploitation without compensation, and I said, your name just
as an example of what I imagined to be somebody
(03:15):
who had been exploited and for the rest of your life,
that content will be out there without compensation. And that
was like where I left it, and that's so. And
then your representative reached out to me, so that was like,
that's my perspective, and I wanted to know what your
side was.
Speaker 3 (03:32):
It's so nice to have you validate that experience, because
for a moment, I thought I was going crazy. And
it's true reality TV is it's edited, it is contrived
to create a certain storyline, and so it's not all factual.
(03:55):
So as a viewer tuning in, it's easy to get
wrapped up and then the concept of an affair hits home.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
It's really hard to a lot of people.
Speaker 3 (04:07):
So I think there was a lot of projection happening,
a lot of emotions that came up for people, and
unfortunately I was the punching bag for a lot of that.
I do want to take a moment, though, to I
do want to take a moment to just acknowledge the
(04:30):
hurt that I brought to a lot of people. I
was not careful in my actions and I was not
thinking long term. I was completely wrapped up in heartbreak
and wanting to get certain needs met. Looking back now,
I can see that I was still healing from a
(04:54):
relationship from somebody who I thought I was going to marry,
and in ending that I still haven't healed yet. So
when I was filming, I was drinking a lot to
ease that anxiety, and in a reality TV environment, I
wasn't getting that safe space for me to express my
(05:21):
emotions in a healthy way.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
It's funny because I often say the game is moving
too fast, and people say to me, to you, didn't
you sign up for this? And we're going to get
into that, But it's very difficult for anyone, including even
someone close to it like an Andy Cohen, to understand
what it's like to be on a reality show. It
(05:44):
seems like a great idea to drink because everything's moving
so fast and there are cameras and you might say
something and you're in your head knowing you've said or
done something that's bad, but nobody stops down. So it's
like when you see those fast flashes in Tokyo or something.
Everything is coming at you so quickly and it's hard
to stop down. And then you also don't know what's
going to be manufactured in the kitchen and served. So
(06:06):
while what you're doing is real, it's real what's happening
in the moment, but it's a manufactured scenario because you
wouldn't necessarily be associating with all of these people having
these conversations, and it's a circular reference. So I really
I understand, I mean, and your show is way crazier,
way younger, way more alcohol, So I get it. So
(06:28):
how does it feel to be able to just tell
your story with your own voice? Right?
Speaker 3 (06:33):
Oh my gosh, it feels like I have this opportunity
to share how much I've grown and how hard I'm
trying to be a better person.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
That person that I saw.
Speaker 3 (06:47):
Watching back on my TV was someone who's completely out
of character from who I truly am, and so I
feel like having this opportunity to share my side of
the story and to represent myself in a way that
I feel like is true to who I am, is
(07:08):
all I could ever ask for.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
So you were born Rachel, and then at some point
you didn't legally, but you just wanted to be called Raquel,
and now you're going back to Rachel. What is the
big problem with that? What is it? Because I see
so many people that have stage names, or you lived
in la or on a TV show. Maybe you wanted
to have a different identity. What is the big problem
(07:32):
and what is the truth about that?
Speaker 3 (07:34):
So I changed my name to Raquel in first grade.
There's a few other Rachel's in my class, and I
wanted to be special, right. I also feel like, deep
down I wasn't comfortable in my own skin. I wanted
to be somebody better in my eyes, So Raquel was
a way for me to kind of be that person.
(07:56):
The name has stuck ever since. My friends are always
called me Raquel and my family called me Rachel, so
I respond to both. During therapy, we were doing some
inner child work where you typically write with your left hand,
and my therapist asked me to write my name on
the whiteboard and I wrote Rachel and she was like, interesting,
(08:19):
I see.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
You as Rachel.
Speaker 3 (08:22):
To your core, You're going by Raquel, which is okay,
but it's not true to who you are.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
It's a wall that you have.
Speaker 3 (08:31):
A persona it's I mean, maybe I feel like most
of my life I've been afraid. I've had I've struggled
with social anxiety, I've struggled with judgment from other people.
So having a fear of vulnerability makes sense. So I'm
(08:53):
really just trying to come back to my roots. And
I am introducing myself as Rachel Nice.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
So nice, Okay, Well, welcome Rachel. I want to know
about your family, like who got you through this? And well, actually, first,
are you close with your family? Have you always been
close with your family?
Speaker 3 (09:14):
Yeah? I have. Yeah, I'm very close with my family.
My parents are still married and we have.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
A really tight knit family. You know, my mom is
a little bit she's a mama bear.
Speaker 3 (09:32):
She's very torn up about this situation, and she says
that she relates to you a lot. Whatever you're saying online.
She's like, yeah, Bethany gets it, you know.
Speaker 1 (09:43):
So it's.
Speaker 3 (09:46):
Yeah, it's really hard for her, and I feel that
pain for her because I put our family in this situation.
That's a very hard dynamic to navigate. But she's been
so supportive and both my parents have been They were
(10:12):
able to make this treatment happen for me, and I'm
so blessed that I had that opportunity to go and
to extend into ninety days because I knew I wasn't
ready to leave yet. I knew I had more work
to do, and I just feel so lucky that I
(10:33):
was able to learn about myself at such a young age.
Speaker 1 (10:38):
In retrospect, Wow, that's so that's very It's so true.
You could be my daughter. I've thought about that many
times in watching the reunion, which we're going to get into,
and I thought about, I would probably be in jail
for murder if I were your mom, Like I was
wondering if you were feeling guilty for quote unquote putting
(10:59):
them through this. Absolutely, yeah, because that probably took a
toll on your whole family. And what about your childhood
friends and what's been that like, like your whole real infrastructure.
Speaker 3 (11:12):
My childhood friends are the only people that I can
talk to and trust. Unfortunately, there have been so many
betrayals of friendships who I trusted and disclosed confidential information
to thinking that they would hold that value of keeping
(11:32):
it in the vaults, and then they turn around and
disclosed those things to the press. And it's been really
difficult to accept that I don't have friends in LA anymore.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
Has anyone defended you.
Speaker 3 (11:51):
There's a few people that have, but most of the
people that weren't posting negative things online were getting harassed
to you post something. And one of my friends reached
out and said, I'm so sorry, I have to unfollow
you because I'm getting such hate for even following you.
Speaker 1 (12:10):
Wow. Okay, So let me just read really quickly or
Instagram apology. You said, I want to apologize my actions
and my choices, foremost to Arianna and to my friends
and the fans so invested in our relationships. There's no excuse.
I'm not a victim. I must own my actions, and
I deeply regret hurting Ariana. In the time since this
came to light, I'm reflecting on my choices, speaking to
(12:31):
a counselor, and I'm learning things about myself, such as
my patterns of codependency and addiction to being and feeling loved.
You said that you sought validation through intimate connections and
that you've began counseling, and kind of what you said before.
So was this whole apology? Is this whole apology as
accurate now coming out of treatment as it was then
(12:52):
did you feel like you had to say this because
the you just had to say something? And is this
a full authentic apology based on where you are now?
Speaker 3 (13:02):
Yes, I still stand by that apology.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
It is.
Speaker 3 (13:07):
Full circle in a way, talking about that need to
be validated and that wanting to be loved there it
took me a while to accept, but I learned about
love addiction, and it's a real thing. It's where you
confuse intensity for intimacy.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
The pheromones and the oxytocin and all those things that
I called oxytosin that yeah.
Speaker 3 (13:33):
And those chemical changes in the brain are the same
chemical changes that happens when you take drugs. So it
is addictive and it explains why I couldn't stop seeing
this person, But it also doesn't excuse the fact that
it happened.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
But now I know better, and.
Speaker 1 (13:56):
Also it went okay. So I I remember planning a
wedding on a reality television show, and I don't know
that I would have done that if I weren't on
a reality television show. Everything's bigger, Like I said, the
train is moving, the train has left the station, and
everybody's talking to you, and there's so much messaging. So
you're in this flurry and we'll get into this, but
(14:19):
it feels like that environment that you were in celebrates
affairs and scandal. It seems like that show is thriving
because of that. So it seems like you're in a
world where that's all kind of It's bad in normal life,
but there with producers and everybody, that's good. An affair
is great for TV.
Speaker 3 (14:36):
Yeah, and with the cast, it's almost been normalized in
a way. And so as I'm looking up to my
fellow cast members and seeing them as role models and
like how to make a good reality TV show because
I want to do my job, Well, it's uncanny to
(14:58):
see the I hate that this specific affair brought up
in people when almost every single one of the cast
members have.
Speaker 2 (15:12):
Been in an affair.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
Yeah, it just hit sideways somehow that you were in
the perfect storm. And I'm not saying that you weren't responsible,
and you're accepting I think at least partial responsibility. But
there's a lot going on. So I want to just
talk about the facility before we get into the show.
So what happens. We can get into the reunion after,
(15:34):
but you leave a reunion and then what happens you
walk out of this reunion that I have since seen?
How do you get into a facility and how does
this all transpire?
Speaker 3 (15:43):
So I walked out of the reunion. There was a
few days before I did my final interview, which is
that five minute at the end of season ten where
I break down. And you know, that was really difficult
for me because I was committed to keeping these secrets
(16:04):
and I felt like I betrayed all of my friendships
and relationships with everyone except for Tom, and by going
behind his back, that would be the ultimate betrayal in
my eyes from my perspective.
Speaker 1 (16:23):
So you mean you had alienated everyone and then you
were going to alienate him?
Speaker 3 (16:26):
Yes, okay, So it's really like that fear of abandonment.
It was really hard for me to, you know, decide,
like am I am I going to take this story
to the grave when most people already are assuming the
worst anyway? Or am I going to own up to
(16:47):
my actions and be honest and really take accountability. And
in that moment, I wasn't even able to be fully
honest because I was still keeping secrets for people who
specifically requested for me to like keep it on the
down low, especially going to visit his family and his
(17:09):
friends out in Saint Louis.
Speaker 2 (17:11):
So it really just showed me that.
Speaker 3 (17:19):
Honesty is one of my core values that I refuse
to compromise any longer.
Speaker 1 (17:27):
Okay, so that's Rachel talking now, because there was some
dishonesty from your previous action. So this is sort of
your saying, like, that's the main tenant now going forward,
like honesty will not be compromised. Correct, And there are
many different reasons for why you were dishonest. You're taking accountability,
but there also were many ingredients that contributed to Okay, well,
(17:49):
we're definitely going to talk about it. Oh, so what
happened at the facility? Like you, so, how do you
get to the facility? You go do that? Didn't interview?
(18:10):
And then how do we get to the facility? What
was that decision? Like who made it? And then.
Speaker 3 (18:16):
It was a really scary decision to make because I
knew I needed help, but I didn't know what to
expect going in. I had the option to go straight
into the treatment facility before the reunion, but I decided
to commit to my work obligation and go back and film.
(18:40):
But once I filmed the reunion and did that final interview.
I took a flight to Phoenix and went straight to
the treatment center.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
They took my.
Speaker 3 (18:55):
Phone, they searched my bags for anything that they needed
to confiscate, and I was kind of thrown into this
place where it was a lot of new faces, and
I was already caring so much shame that it was
difficult for me to be like, Hi, I'm Raquel. But
(19:17):
as time went on, I was able to warm up
and really share my story in an authentic, honest way,
and I was met with grace and compassion from my peers.
And a big part of my journey is learning to
be compassionate with myself as well.
Speaker 1 (19:38):
So do you forgive yourself? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (19:42):
I do.
Speaker 1 (19:43):
Okay, So now we're onto the show, which I you
know what, First of all, what made you talk to me?
I mean, everybody I would assume want to talk to
you haven't spoken in months. We don't know each other,
and that take some blind faith, some trust.
Speaker 2 (20:02):
So why me, Bethany? You are a force to be
reckoned with.
Speaker 3 (20:06):
And I just heard what you were saying on TikTok
and using my example as using my case as an
example of exploitation and the way that the network is
running to the bank, like laughing, running to the bank
with this scandal, and I haven't seen a single penny.
(20:29):
So in that way, I feel like, I it's not fair,
and I feel like a toddler saying it's not fair,
but it really isn't. And I feel like I've been
portrayed as the ultimate villain my mistakes that I made
on camera Live on Forever, and you mentioned something about
(20:52):
the addiction of doing reality TV and the way that
they always dingle that care in front of you, like, well,
you need to tell your side of the story otherwise
it's going to be written for you, and that's terrifying.
So I almost went back because of that.
Speaker 1 (21:09):
What happens is to give people inside baseball, and I
have institutional knowledge of fifteen years, what happens is somebody
could have a great season and everyone loves them, and
you're feeding off of that. That's the drug, that's the heroine.
You've taken the drug, you got the hit, and then
all of a sudden something happens and the pendulum swings.
Because I always say it's a zero sum game. Someone's
(21:29):
always winning, someone's always losing. Someone's always killing, someone's always
being killed. The people that end up in the middle
get fired or or friends. The people that are in
the middle under the radar. You got to be getting
killed or killing somebody. So if you are winning, you're
on top of the world and it seems great, and
then all of a sudden you go to the bottom.
(21:51):
And that's like an addict who hits rock bottom. And
what do they want to do. They want to take
another hit. And the producers are there, and this is
a fact to tell you, you know why you should go back.
Don't let them tell your story for you. You get to
go back and you'll show them all next season. And
that's how they get people who are miserable and on
antidepressants and anti anxiety medication to go back in not
(22:13):
to mention, many people ruin their reputations, and this is
the only place that we'll have them. You have fifty
five sixty year old women who couldn't really work anywhere
else much less, have ruined their reputations. So this is
a place that will take you back. And because if
you do drugs or get drunk or having an a fair,
you get paid more. You're celebrated, so it's about this institution,
(22:36):
this system that I've been talking and I really do
understand what you're saying, and it occurs to me that
you're the villain, Arianna is the hero. Tom is another
character who doesn't take the hit as much as you
in this scand of all, but you're right, the realm
is making a lot of money. And now it took
(22:57):
three of you in a recipe to create that scandal
as people who are partially produced. Let's just say that
it's real in a very unreal circumstance and also produced.
So now you have one of the three characters that
can't even afford to pay for your treatment that you
just went through, right, because it's my understanding that you
(23:19):
get paid in a year less than my interns get paid.
Speaker 3 (23:23):
Really yeah, yeah, And one of the things that producers
also told me is that you get paid based off
of your performance from the season prior, so that already
set me up to want to perform well. Going into
season ten, I was like, Okay, if this could be
(23:44):
my season, I could really stand out and I'm single
for the first time, like I want to embrace that, and.
Speaker 2 (23:54):
I took direction.
Speaker 1 (23:56):
Well, yeah, you don't ever know how you're doing game,
because the producer is telling both people, the person killing
and being killed that they're doing a great job. So
you never know until what comes out of the oven. Yeah,
I mean, so that talking about the show, I really
want to talk about let's be really honest about the relationships.
(24:17):
So I have made relationships on reality television and it's
not a healthy place to nurture a relationship. It's not
a place to bring a relationship in, which is why
many marriages have failed. And it's not I'm not saying
it's because of reality TV, but it certainly hasn't helped.
And then friendships you see very unlikely friendships, and the Housewives,
(24:39):
you'd see someone like Carol Radziwill and Tinsley Mortimer or
Jill Zarn and Kelly Bensone, very unlikely friendships because you
need alliances. It started back with Survivor. So you have
these friendships and they do seem and feel real, and
they kind of are real because you're really connecting and
you're having fun, and you're also have someone to talk
(24:59):
to this weird thing that no one else in the
world and your childhood friends would never understand. So it's
all you talk about you're on a loop and you
think the whole world is like this, and the whole
world knows what's going on, And so I ask you
about this friendship, all of the friendships, and then I
guess the friendship with Arianna because being your best friend
is coming into question, and that's you know, the world
(25:22):
thinks you slept with your best friend's boyfriend of ten years.
Speaker 3 (25:27):
Yes, that is the narrative that is being written for me.
It is more salacious that way. Arianna and I were
not best friends. We were acquaintances who became friends through
the show. She's always been somebody who's been very sweet
to me. She would stand up for me and encourage
(25:50):
me to pursue whatever I was.
Speaker 1 (25:53):
I don't know she's doing.
Speaker 3 (25:55):
Yeah, she would encourage me to pursue whatever I was pursuing.
Speaker 2 (25:59):
And that was all great.
Speaker 3 (26:01):
But we never had like a deep conversation that I
would have with a best friend. And it's painful to
think that I hurt her in this way because that
wasn't my intention. I wasn't trying to be a malicious person.
I just got wrapped up in this and wasn't thinking clearly.
(26:27):
But we were not best friends. The alliances who I
called these people my friends because I really did believe
that they were my friends.
Speaker 1 (26:38):
It feels real and it kind of is real in
that environment.
Speaker 3 (26:41):
Yes, so Sheena was one of my best friends. She
offered her apartment to me to stay in while I
was figuring out my next moves after breaking up with James.
She kept this apartment in LA but wasn't living it
because she was living down in San Diego. But she
(27:04):
started creating this narrative that she was a sister I
never had, and the mother like a mother to me,
and that she gave me a place to live when
nobody else would, you know, put me up anywhere, and
that I didn't pay rent, which is not true.
Speaker 2 (27:22):
I did pay rent.
Speaker 3 (27:23):
And I also cat sat for her cat who was
pumped with mercury for a treatment. She couldn't be near
the cat because she was breastfeeding for her daughter. And
I also did her podcasts, and she said the one
podcast that I did with her talking about my breakup
(27:44):
with James was the number one most listened to podcast.
Speaker 2 (27:48):
So I know that.
Speaker 3 (27:53):
It's just unfortunate that she's trying to create this narrative
that I've taken advantage of her when I feel like
I did contribute in a way that would really.
Speaker 1 (28:05):
You're saying, you're saying it was a quid pro quote.
It was a mutual beneficial, mutually beneficial relationship within within
a television show, which is all murky anyway, right, So
how sorry are you to Arianna? And you know, do
you what do you? What do you make of all
of that? Is she? Do you think she'll ever forgive you?
(28:25):
Do you care about that? Where are you with that part?
Speaker 3 (28:30):
I don't expect her to forgive me. I think once
trust is broken with somebody from personal experience, it's really
hard to come back from that. And the fact that
I was able to keep those secrets from her, I
don't I don't expect her to ever forgive me, but
I you know, I am remorseful. I do recognize that
(28:54):
I've caused her a lot of pain. And there was
a lot of secrecy deception because although I wasn't hanging
out with Arianna off camera to begin with, I did
start hanging out with her in a group setting because
Tom would always invite me out. So it did seem
(29:17):
like we were close friends from the outside looking in,
But in those situations. I was hanging out with Tom
more than I was hanging out with her.
Speaker 1 (29:30):
So did you spend time Did you ever spend time
with Ariana off camera and away from the show.
Speaker 2 (29:34):
No, not just us together?
Speaker 1 (29:37):
Never? No, Wow, that's something I mean. Yeah, you definitely
would have seen your best friend, Yeah, off camera, but
a whole life, like.
Speaker 3 (29:46):
I don't know, go out to dinner just the two
of you, or shopping or punch.
Speaker 1 (29:52):
No, yes, okay, So how much do you think their
relationship is real Tom and Ariana?
Speaker 2 (30:14):
I honestly, I don't know.
Speaker 3 (30:18):
I know I would not be involved in this a
fair secrecy type of situation if I thought that there
was longevity in this relationship between Tom and Ariana. The
people closest to them could see that their relationship hasn't
(30:38):
been what they portray on camera. And Tom always told me, like,
they're a brand, they're an image. They work together to
make brand deals, and they are business partners.
Speaker 1 (30:56):
Are they business partners literally or just you mean in
the show being like a duo on the show.
Speaker 3 (31:01):
They're a duo on the show, and they utilize that
for the success of their brand or image.
Speaker 1 (31:08):
Got it? And do they live together now? Still?
Speaker 2 (31:11):
They do still live together.
Speaker 1 (31:14):
I don't you have to explain that to me. You
don't know, but I don't understand. How does America know that?
Speaker 3 (31:19):
Yes, yes, America does know that, and people are confused
as to why they're still living together. I actually gave
Tom the key to my apartment while I was away
at the Meadows, and he had a free place to
stay and chose to stay in the house with Arianna.
Speaker 1 (31:39):
I mean they both can afford a place or go
rent a place.
Speaker 2 (31:41):
I I don't know.
Speaker 3 (31:43):
I know that a lot of his money was wrapped
up in the bar shorts and Sandy's, and I know
that Arianna has been doing a lot of brand deals. Yeah,
I don't know their situation, but I do know that
it really isn't that so prising that they're living together
in my eyes, because it's been this way. They haven't
(32:04):
been an authentic couple romantic.
Speaker 1 (32:10):
So it doesn't matter. So their roommates and it doesn't matter,
it doesn't it's not as deep, and so the breakup
isn't as deep either. And now seeing that she's doing
millions of dollars of deals, so it takes three to
tango and scandaal And how does it, honestly feel seeing
that she's doing all of these deals and is America's
(32:31):
sweetheart and all these appearances and doing the talk show
circuit and things like.
Speaker 3 (32:36):
That, part of me says, good for you, because take
advantage of these opportunities while they come your way.
Speaker 2 (32:44):
But it is hurtful to me just to think that.
Speaker 3 (32:51):
My nature is very kind and forgiving and understanding of
other people. So the concept of me being the ultimate
reality TV villain just blows my mind. And the way
that she spoke to me at the reunion, I feel
like it was uncalled for.
Speaker 1 (33:14):
It was too far. Yeah, yeah, I mean the thing is,
I think, and we're gonna get into the reunion because
that's where I really became invested in this as a concept,
and I'm speechless about the reunion. But what I wanted
to ask you was, is it more don't hate the player?
(33:35):
Hate the game? Like you don't blame all of the
warriors like yourself, who are there to get ratings and
to kill people or be killed, and to cheat and
to drink and to have affairs and think it's real
and normal because that's this landscape. But you blame the game.
Speaker 3 (33:51):
Is that how you feel I feel like I just
got caught up in something that is way too big
for me to handle, and I'm just trying to survive.
So I don't know who people should hate. That's up
to their discretion.
Speaker 1 (34:06):
But I oh, I didn't mean literally. I meant like right,
But I mean.
Speaker 3 (34:09):
I think like being knowledgeable on all the factors that
play into reality TV is important because there's so much
that is brushed, brushed under the rug and hidden from
the viewers that it's easy to consume this narrative that's
being thrown at you.
Speaker 1 (34:28):
Yeah, so I want to talk about this tape this
face time. I can't imagine what your parents went through
about that. There's a video, so your facetiming Tom. You're
in New York and Tom is in LA and you're
masturbating and he's recording you, and you don't know that
(34:49):
you're being recorded, correct, Okay, And then that tell me
what happened with this video that I now know about.
So I don't understand what happened.
Speaker 3 (34:59):
I was in New New York for Watch What Happens
Live the night before All of our the night before
our big press day and the live interview with Andy Cohen.
I decided to be adventurous and look at the adult
section on the TV, and Tom and I FaceTime a lot,
(35:20):
so it turned into something more of an intimate face time.
I expected to have privacy in that moment, so that happened.
The entire day is a success in my eyes. And
(35:41):
I was celebrating with Shena after watch What Happens Live,
and I looked at my hairstylist and I was like,
you know what, I'm ready for anything, whatever happens. I
feel like I just leveled up and I'm killing it
and I can handle anything. Literally five minutes later, I
(36:02):
get a text from Ariana sending me two screen recording,
two screen recorded videos and a text that said you're
dead to me, And that's how I knew that she
knew what day was that this was March first.
Speaker 1 (36:23):
Of twenty twenty three, okay, yes, and so that's like
five months ago, okay.
Speaker 3 (36:28):
And then also that's how I found out that I
had been recorded without my consent, So of course all
of these emotions came flooded, flooding over me. She called
me and she was yelling at me and begged to
(36:52):
know when it first started.
Speaker 1 (36:54):
Was she being filmed? When she asked that no, okay.
Speaker 3 (36:56):
This was all off camera. We had already wrapped filming,
and because she had that video, I was scared for
you know, I was scared that it was gonna be leaked.
Speaker 1 (37:13):
And it was a graphic like you could see.
Speaker 3 (37:15):
I mean, it was It's not something that I would
ever want my grandma to see you now, yeah, right,
or your kids, yeah exactly. So I felt pressured in
that moment. And one of the reasons why, one of
the reasons why it went on for so long this
affair is because Tom and I couldn't come to a
(37:39):
resolution on the timeline of it all because Tom didn't
want Ariana to know how long it actually had been
going on and felt like it would hurt her more
if she knew that this happened during the summer. This
was summer of twenty twenty two. Oh so this went
on for a while seven month? Oh okay, yeah, So
(38:01):
I told she begged to know. I told Ariana that
it had been happening for seven months, and she flipped out.
This is also while Tom was Tom was performing his
hit new single in West Hollywood at Tom Tom So
(38:24):
everyone was there. Lisa vander Pump was there and his
phone just happened to fall out of his pocket while
he was performing. He didn't change his password, even though
at this time he said that they were broken up officially.
And then he also left the video in his camera role.
Speaker 1 (38:45):
Wait, this is what you believe or this is what
was said?
Speaker 3 (38:48):
This is what I know, because this is what has
been said by Tom and by Ariana.
Speaker 1 (38:57):
That the phone fell out of his pocket. Yes, and
you believe that.
Speaker 2 (39:01):
I don't even know what to believe anymore.
Speaker 1 (39:04):
Okay, So the phone fell out of his pocket and
she then picked it up and put his password in
and or did you didn't have his face ID? And
then found a video that was on the front of
his phone for her to see.
Speaker 3 (39:17):
Yes, a mutual friend picked it up gave it to
Ariana because Thomas still performing. She had this gut instinct
she said to look through the phone. And she just
looked through the camera role and there was the video.
Speaker 1 (39:32):
And okay, and who else has seen that?
Speaker 3 (39:40):
I it seems to be that a lot of people
have seen it, despite my immediate season desist letter that
went out. She some of Arianna's friends have described the
video in great detail online and she also sent it
(40:04):
to me, so I don't know who else she sent
it to. I wouldn't be surprised if she sent it
to other people, but it's not legal.
Speaker 1 (40:15):
Right, And other people have said to you that they've
seen it. Yeah, okay, So do you mind if I
ask how old you are? I'm twenty eight, you're twenty eight.
So have you had many relationships before reality television?
Speaker 3 (40:30):
No? I had an unofficial boyfriend who is scared of
commitment in college, and that was my first love, my
first I love you to somebody. And then I met James.
And I met James and I was twenty one. I
was in this like DJ phase where I was like
(40:53):
into the DJ and try to get up on stage
and whatever. And when I met him, he had this
like charming British accent, and so I fell like in
love with James. We did long distance for two years
and then we lived together for three years.
Speaker 1 (41:13):
But you've had your major significant relationships in your life
have been on reality television?
Speaker 3 (41:17):
Yes? Wow? Yes?
Speaker 1 (41:19):
Okay? So were you what you believed to be in
love with Tom?
Speaker 3 (41:25):
I believed I was in love with Tom at the time.
I now look back on it and see that I
was not in love with him. I also don't believe
that he truly was in love with me either. Okay,
it was we had this connection that I felt seen
and heard by him that I haven't really had that
(41:48):
connection with other people on the cast, nor people in
my real life.
Speaker 2 (41:54):
So it was like.
Speaker 3 (41:57):
I was filming in a tumultuous environment. I was needing
some validation and somebody to hear what I was going through.
And here comes along Tom, who really gave me that
time of day to share my side of the story
(42:17):
in a non judgment zone, and that's exactly what I
needed in that moment.
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