Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
You know, how like it was by Felicia, and then
people talked about Becky with a good hair. I never
knew about Becky Becky because we talked about Karen so much.
Someone told me about Becky, but I didn't know Becky.
And I have met people recently who say, what's a Karen?
So it's like a certain type of person that knows
this vernacular. And last weekend I was well, I was
(00:35):
in an tucket where presumably a lot of Karen's do live.
But I feel like the definition of Karen may have evolved,
like certain things. It's like The Housewives. You will get
ripped for something you said on The Housewives and then
later be celebrated for it or in reality television overall,
meaning there's something that will happen on keeping up with
(00:55):
the Kardashians that you know, like Kim stopped taking pictures
of yourself. You're say, are going to jail, and in
that moment people may criticize that as being selfish, but
later it becomes something that's celebrated. So in the beginning,
Karen was a very negative term. I think it was
somebody who was racist, and I don't even know what
(01:16):
a Karen is. I have to actually look it up
in my phone. I'm going to look up what a
Karen is, what a Karen was? Hold on, that's my phone.
I want to see what the definition of a Karen
is was, because I think it's changing, but it may
just be that I we'll want to make a change
and my baby doing something wrong. So a Karen it's
a pejorative slang term for an obnoxious, angry and titled,
(01:39):
and often racist, middle aged white woman who uses her
privilege to get her way or police other alright people,
So it's definitely And when you look up Karen, they
show Kate Goslin because I feel like an A level
haircut is part of this for some reason, I don't
know why. Like respectful to Teresa Caputa the Long Island media,
(02:00):
I don't know her. I don't think I know her,
and she seems I don't know her, so I can't
even say when she said. I think she came to
my talk show once, so I do kind of know her,
and she seemed very nice. But I feel like that's
what people are looking at when they see a Karen,
someone who has like a like a bi level or
multiple layer short ish blonde haircut. Okay. So that's what
(02:21):
Karen began as, and people, when you say something that
they think is inappropriate, will say, okay, shut up, Karen.
But I think that Karen has evolved a little bit
into being someone who lodges complaints and wants to speak
to the supervisor. And maybe the reason I'm celebrating that
is because Paul will say to me, would you like
to lodge a complaint, Karen? Because I recently had a
(02:42):
situation where we were still inside the store and there
was bad service, and an email came through saying that
the bed that we were buying, which was expensive, wouldn't fit,
and the person at the front desk said, you can't
return it. We didn't even have it yet, it wasn't
in our possession. We were still in the store, but
they said they wouldn't like refund the transaction or even
(03:05):
get a store credit, which was all I really cared about.
So that's when someone might say, okay, Karen, because I'm entitled,
because I think that before we leave the store that
it just I should have measured the item properly. I'm
not allowed to make any mistakes. But the truth of
the matter is that I don't know if that makes
me a Karen or smart. And then also I'm a
(03:26):
person who people say, like if I asked a question
like that, like shut the funk up, just donated to charity.
So I'm supposed to just be like lighting dollar bills
and like buying things and making mistakes and saying fuck it.
It doesn't matter if this is, you know, a couple
of thousand dollars or something, I should just say fuck it.
I'll donate the bed to charity, like and I don't
know what bed I'm donating to charity, Like what charity
(03:48):
needs a four poster bed? I mean, I do a
lot of charity and one of the things we don't
get requests for is like canopy beds. So Karen has
been reading about the Karen's, so she knows what she's
thought of. She has thought of as a racist, complainer,
entitled woman whose middle aged. So Karen knows who she is.
(04:10):
And I know a friend who her kids called her
a Karen. But they don't think that their mom is
a racist, and they don't think their mom is a
bad person. They just think their mom is the type
who would ask but a supervisor if something was wrong,
or like let's say you ordered food and it was raw, Like,
are you supposed to just take food that's raw because
you're worried that you're gonna be a Karen and pay
(04:30):
for it? And that brings me to ask you, like
do you return things? Meaning if something's broken and you
a Karen, if you walk in and say, hi, this
is broken, you're lidging a complaint. But I think that
whoever Karen is is evolving and has been reading all
about the Karen. So Karen might be a little more evolved. Now,
Karen might complain less. Karen might be a little more
(04:51):
open minded. To be honest, When I wrote nobody likes
a sore loser on my Instagram, not because I was
saying Biden's great, Trump's bed or and just because I
was saying nobody likes the store loser. And at that
point I felt that Trump had lost the election but
wasn't conceding yet. And when I had a lot of
(05:13):
people go crazy after me, and I realized, wow, a
lot of the Karen's are mad at me. That's how
I categorized it. And then they would come over to
Instagram and I would say, I believe that the gap
is too wide. And then these women would say, well,
I'm disappointed in you, but thank you for responding to me.
And all we want is our day in court, meaning
we want the fight to be called. And obviously there
(05:34):
are some people that don't believe that it was fair,
and they have a right to their opinion. But I
learned a lot in that experience, because I learned that
people want to be heard and want the fight to
be called, and don't want me to just open my
mouth and just say what I think happened first. So
my point is by going over to the side and
talking to a lot of these women who I have
categorized as Karen's and maybe you think I'm a Karen
because I am literally a wealthy, middle aged white woman.
(05:58):
But I believe that whoever Karen is, if she has
identified herself, that she has evolved now. And then I
also think there has become a humorous, anecdotal description of Karen,
who's just a person who wants to speak to the supervisor.
And so I hope I'm not going to get canceled
and in trouble because within my office there's a girl
(06:18):
who's the best I'd like disputing something if we have
a problem. You know, someone gets sick and we couldn't
go to a hotel and we don't want to burn
the money or made a mistake. One time we made
a mistake and booked a very expensive trip on the
wrong data on the calendar. And so you know, we
we've deemed who the resident Karen is. And this person
is absolutely not a racist. This person is just better
at speaking to the supervisor. So I just want to
(06:40):
talk about the evolution of Karen and wanted to know
who you think Karen is and has Karen changed, Has
Karen evolved? Is Karen part of the conversation, is Karen
doing better? And are you a Karen. My guest today
is Rick spring Field. He is a legendary musician and
(07:02):
actor and an author and he is definitely best known
for his song Jesse's Girl, which is making a big
comeback right now on TikTok so even my daughter is
dancing to it. Uh, this is a song he won
a Grammy four back in two so way to take
something and really market and capitalize it and turn it
(07:24):
into what has been an incredible career. He starred on
General Hospital as Dr Nick Drake and He has since
acted in shows and movies like Ricky and the Flash,
American Horror Story, and True Detective. He has written two
novels along with his autobiography, Late Late at Night, a memoir,
and we talk about pursuing your passions, knowing what you
(07:48):
don't know, and the need to be truthful in whatever
you do. Rick is an incredibly talented artist, honest human
being who really goes there about his life and his
relationship and his business and his music. And I really
admire him. I've known him for years, and I hope
you really enjoy this conversation because I did. Hi, Hey
(08:17):
are you good? How are you? Your hair is light blonde.
I always picture you as like a very dark brunette,
like my color. Yeah, I had a just lighting a
little bit, you know. I like it. So we met
years ago on my talk show and you gave me
a pink signed guitar for my birthday, which I still have.
This room has better sound quality, but upstairs in this house,
(08:39):
I have it in a loose sight case on my wall,
and it's like sort of my pride enjoy remember that. Well,
it's nice to see you. Where are you like? What city?
And stay? Do you in. I'm Malibu, California in my
home studio. Oh nice, what are you working on a
new record? My new record? And uh, I been doing
(09:00):
a lot of recording, you know, and then lockdown also
we're mixing. We did a living room show here and
you know, before the lockdown kind of stop broke open,
and so we did a a living room show here
in my Uh we did all of Working Class Dog
in order from back to front because of what the
anniversary of Working Class Dogs. So we're gonna put that
(09:21):
out soon. Oh wow. So that's an interesting question that
I haven't thought about. Do you think there's going to
be you know, how after like a pandemic or nine
months after some sort of earthquake, there's a lot there's
a baby boom. Will there be a good music boom
based on all these people being holed up and being creative?
I'm pretty sure. I've done three albums already here and
they're just being released now. A couple of them are
(09:43):
anonymous kind of band albums, and there's one that's being
released in Australia. It's very uh, very dark, very different.
But yeah, it's been a very creative time I think
for for every musician for sure. Wow, I just didn't
specifically think about that. So you feel like you've been
much more productive musically then you would have if uh
life were normal. Yeah, certainly, writing wise, that's really all
(10:06):
I've had to do is write and record, and you know,
you because of the the the internet, you can send
you know, songs around until the other musicians and if
they want to, they can play on it and send
their parts back, and it makes recording by internet very easy. Interesting,
that's a silver lining. Um. So the show, I don't
know if you've listened, this show is traditionally about started
(10:30):
from the bottom. Now we're here moguls, brand makers, brand builders,
people who are undeniably successful in their own right and
in their non traditional way. So this is not a
show about being famous or being rich. It's about a
road to success. So you know, as I read about
you and think about you, I think about how you
(10:51):
had longevity, for sure, especially having such massive popular success.
Often that's a type of person that you know, kind
of goes away, fades into obscurity, made a lot of
money in that moment, but fades away, And it seems
like you've had so many different iterations of your career
and certainly circuitous and nontraditional being a soap star and
(11:14):
then being a mainstream successful musician and also having street
cred and respect of other musicians. All those things don't
normally go together. So if you don't mind, I want
to start from your family and your upbringing and what
success meant to you, and money and drive, and what
your household was like as it pertains to that. Well,
(11:37):
my dad was a lifer in the army, in Australian Army,
and my mom was a homemaker as they say now,
and my dad used to We didn't have a TV
when I was a kid. I lived in Australia, in
the country, so it was gairly you know backwards, and
we didn't have TV for a long long time. So
what we do after for entertainment after, you know, when
(11:57):
we gather around the piano. My dad was also a
right singer, and we had a player piano and we
take turns on the player piano and we all sing.
Basically what we did for entertainment, you know, until the
TV came along when I was about eight or nine,
and so I had that in my mind that singing
was something we did even though My dad was an
army guy and we lived on army basis and we
(12:19):
moved to England when I was about ten, and that's
when I discovered music and girls and they've always kind
of gone together because so um, I didn't get a
guitar and I was thirteen. I used to cut him
out of cardboard and make him out of wood, and
they were fake guitars, and my mom got the idea
to buy me a real one, so she bought me
(12:39):
a real one on my thirteenth birthday. And I didn't
realize it back then, but she was encouraging me to
pursue a music career, although she fought it when I
started getting into trouble at school. In the end that
we're both on board with me uh leaving school and pursuing,
you know, life in a band, even though they knew
from what they knew it was a pretty could be
(13:01):
a pretty short journey. Interesting. So this was a passion
driven just be true to yourself and be happy, not
a you have to go out and be successful and
make money. This is just like you came from. No No,
I don't know any musician who has been successful that
got into it for the money. That's you know, that's
kind of a joke. It's like, um, I'm a painter.
I think I'll do it for the money, right, you
(13:23):
do a passion and still you know that's why over
the lockdown I've written a lot of stuff is because
I'm still very passionate about it and that's my driver.
And uh, I think the money and any success is
certainly a gift and it's not any kind of uh.
I mean you you want to be successful because as
a writer, I wanted people to hear what I had written.
(13:46):
I wanted people to experience what i'd written, and I
wanted to move them. Is basically, I think it's the
back of of me as a writer because I'm moved
by music. I've been moved by songs, and I wanted
to do that for other people. It's interesting because there
was somebody on CNBC and I wanted to jump through
the television. He was saying, anybody who says that you know,
(14:06):
if you're passionate about it, you'll be successful at it
is wrong. And I wanted to jump through the television
because I've had the same experience as you. I just
execute ideas. The form is different, but for me it's
I just love ideas and I want to execute them,
and it's exciting when it hits. When you're you know,
like you said, you're being heard. So what has your
(14:34):
greatest success? But in your career, I think the music
I've written in the last ten years has been the
best music I've written. And you know the fact that
Jesse's Girl is kind of a huge song, it tends
to overshadow. I mean, it's great to have a song
like that, it's kind of in the pop culture, but
it's also overshadows stuff as well. It's a double edged
sort of any kind of success. I agree. I agree,
(14:56):
and it's making a comeback now. So girls that are
my daughter is age who or eleven are now aware
of you, which is what I was saying before. It's
fascinating for you to have touched so many generations in
a different way at a different time. Yeah, it's nothing
that you can plan and nothing you can say, yeah
that's what I want that song to do. It's just
it's just life. And I actually didn't think that was
(15:17):
the best song I've ever written, but it's apparently everybody
else disagrees. Yeah, exactly. Not that it's an accident, but
a happy accident. But yeah, I do agree with that.
The overshadowing part must be frustrating. Um do you care
about being relevant? It's it's there in the back of
my mind because I listened to new music all the time,
and I see what I try to get ideas if
(15:39):
there's anything that I like that I can incorporate. But
in the end, it's really I think because I've had success,
I didn't have success by trying to be relevant. You
know that late seventies, when I seventy nine, when I
wrote Working Class Dog, and it was all disco and
ballads on the radio, and I here, I am writing
a guitar based pop rock album, you know, So I thought,
(16:00):
uh and uh. At that point, I've given you know.
I've tried writing disco songs. I tried writing you know,
ballads and trying to match the top forty and it
never worked out. It was always rang of untruthfulness to me.
So I finally just said, you know, I'm gonna write
what I want to write and go around in the
band and play this music. And that's when I had
(16:20):
my first success. Was just following my path what I
thought was my path, and my love and not trying
to be relevant or current. And I think, but I'm
you know, if you're listening to the top forty and
trying to write that music, by the time you get
that song out, everybody's moved on. I guess I've never
really followed trends, and I still don't. I still just
in the end as a writer, when I finished a song,
(16:42):
I finish it because I like it and there's no
one else there to give me an opinion. I have
to finish it because I like the song. If I
don't like the song afterway through, I'll throw it out.
That's fascinating because I have had partners come to me,
big partners Walmart or you know, big partners, say this
is a big thing and we should get into this
(17:03):
when you know my my biggest hit was The Skinny
Girl Margarita because I created something that I felt was
something that was important in a practical solution for women.
And then later when you become so successful and you
make a lot of money, people come to you with
these different ideas because of what the market wants. And
I said, but that they're already doing that, So I'm
gonna go do that and forget the details about like
(17:23):
put getting a product out, which would be a year
for now minimum. If you're looking to the left and
the right what they're doing, you're already behind. And also,
I've decided what I like and hopefully they'll appreciate it.
Meaning that's what you're talking about. In music, it's not
that dissimilar to branding. If you're branding products or books
or ideas or TV, you basically go with your gut. Yeah,
(17:44):
you have to be truthful, I think is really the
key and nut chase the money. The money really comes
to you from your passion. It doesn't come from you
chasing it. It's like, you know, it's a big believer
in the zend phrase. You know, you chase a butterfly
and it'll fly away, but she stopped chasing, it will
settle on you. So I've seen that happen so many
(18:05):
times in my own life, and I've only ever done
stuff really that I believed in, except honestly, for General Hospital,
which I didn't you know, I thought I just took
because that I needed the money. I didn't think it
would ever have any reflection on me musically. I thought
it was just a bunch of you know, blue haired ladies,
ironing watching the young people cavort and say mindless ship.
You know. So I didn't think it would have any
(18:27):
effect on me on my music, but it actually happened
to just be one of those things that it turned
into something. But the music was the thing I had
the passion for, and that was I think why the
character took off. This character I played on the soap
took off was because people started linking the song Jesse's Girl.
It was a big hit at the time to this
(18:48):
character on the show, and that gave me a kind
of a higher profile. But I was kind of happy
to leave the show and just stick with touring. It
doesn't mean we can only go do everything we're passionate
about and you know, eat sand for dinner. You're describing
in the moment you were offered something and you needed
the money or I mean, there are things that I
do do because they have a good number, and that's
(19:08):
an r O I and are going to take so
much time and we have to do something. You know,
you've got to keep the lights on. I run a
big operation. You have to you know, feed your family
or you did, and you have to feed yourself and
get to be able to do things surrounding your passion.
So sometimes you're gonna take a gig because that fuels
the ability to be able to do what you're passionate about,
you know, I mean they go hand in hand. I think.
(19:29):
I mean I was I was passionate about acting, so
that was kind of the passionate element of the soap thing.
You know. I've been stayed passionate about acting and uh
and have done some better things after that, thankfully, But
my one dimensional soap opera character is not, you know,
my only legacy, right, I didn't know you were very
passionate about acting, so but not the same kind of
(19:51):
passion as you have for music or just different. Well
I happened lately. I mean, I've done a lot of
stuff that's been really great writing and I love that,
you know, certainly doing the movie with Meryl Street but
was incredibly exciting, and shows like True Detective and American Horstory,
Whether Where the Right and Supernatural where the writing was
really good. But at the core of it, you know
(20:12):
what I do seven music. But there is a business
to your career, otherwise you wouldn't still be here and
be successful. So are you a good business person, Do
you surround yourself with other people for that or do
you have a good gut instinct for business. I have
great people around me now, mainly from learning the people
not to have around you. A lot of people around
(20:35):
me that you know when you're successful, everybody gloams onto you,
and maybe one percent of them has your interests as
well as their own, but most of them just have
their own interests. So I have great people around me now.
I do have a good business head for investment and
things like that, not so much for what I should
do musically, which is really weird. I just write what
(20:56):
I write, and I love to perform, and I think
that translate. It's the only things that have been successful
our investments I've made that I love and I have
a passion for same. I get it, and it's sometimes
so basic and rudimentary. Do you know what you know
when you know what you don't know? That's a very
basic principle. If you don't think you're such an exceptional
(21:16):
business person that in and of itself is good business. Right. Well,
I just got into business with Sammy Hagar and the
Beach Bar rum that I don't know much about the
alcohol business, but I was very interested in it. And
Sammy does Sammy Hagar and knows you know, he's already
had a home run with the tequila. And I was
looking into getting into the alcohol business and and they
(21:38):
came to me with the proposition to join Sammy in
the Beach Bar rum promotion and part of it, the
part of the company. I have a great business people
around me, but I've also been you know, taking advantage
of my business people. Is every I think young musician
who makes money uh fast suddenly you know? Has I
mean you get sucked at some point. Yep, you're gonna
(22:01):
get it. Nobody gets out without paying the bill. So
that brings me to think about your relationship. You're you're
married correct for how long? Thirty six years? So how
did you meet your wife? She into music and or
she just she civilian? Is she in the business? How
did you meet? She was working at Sound City at
(22:24):
the Front Desk, which was a studio that my manage
your own and it was a studio that Dave Grohl
did the documentary about mm hmm okay and very well
everyone who you know a lot of the great people
recorded there. You know, Grol did it because that's where
Nirvana did never Mind and it kind of changed his life.
(22:46):
It's where I did Jesse's Girl and Working Class Dog
and Stevie Nicks recorded there. So he got us all
together to write a song and be in this movie,
and then we went out on tour Sound City tour,
so it became a very well known own studio amongst musicians.
But now this documentary is a lot of people have
seen the documentary and they and uh, it's a very
(23:08):
cool documentary to everyone. Kind of gets together with the
food fighters and writes a song and then performs it.
And it sounds like the Comics Strip for music, Like
there's a documentary about the comic strip. We're all comedians.
That was sort of the mecca and the iconic place
with Mitzi Shore. Sounds like that, Yeah, and it's uh,
(23:29):
this has got great, great music too. There's an album
out of a Sound City. McCartney's on it and it's
a lot of a lot of great songs. Um. But
so my manage your own sound City and she was
working in she just come out from the Midwest and
had befriended us the studio manager, Jemima, So Jemima put
(23:49):
her on the desk and I met her there and uh,
I was seeing another girl at the times when I
split up with her. Then I started dating Barbara and
we got married like five years later. So I talk
a lot on here to successful people who are in
quote unquote successful relationships. I mean, everything's not rainbows and unicorns,
but certainly being in a three decade marriage is definitely
(24:12):
a level of success. So and I hear the most
interesting tools to relationship success. But now you're adding a
layer of touring and music and craziness and all that
must go on with that. So how did you navigate that?
How do you maintain a successful relationship in an industry
where that is absolutely not the norm? Um, you marry
(24:34):
my wife? Really? Yeah, she's Uh, she's amazing and uh
she's one of those people that everybody loves and she's
absolutely truthful. She's an absolute people person and that's her
that's her passion, and she's an incredible spirit, you know.
And I wasn't always a good guy in the relationship,
(24:55):
and we've weathered some storms, as any relationship has, but
we've also had a great close connection and we've maintained that. Um,
a lot of a couple of times. You know, we've
gone to count two people we know on counselors and
not to help us through rough spots. I'm not a
big believer and not too if you if you hit
like this, you know you can't get past something. You
(25:16):
go to a third person that you respect, and or
you do it along the way, so you're locking the
door before you get robbed. You know what I mean,
which is what I got into a relationship. And I've
had a very challenging childhood, say the least, and I
got into a relationship and not that long after, which
is weird. In the beginning, I wanted to get into
just talk to someone just to navigate a long distance
relationship and my past and this person. So I think
(25:39):
I am a big believer too, But I guess what
I'm getting at. Yes, Mary, your wife, But what are
some of the tools that you can recall, for example,
on here, I've heard from many people space like give
each other a long leash, like you're you and on me,
And it's a dirty secret that people need space. I
am in a long distance relationship for the most part,
(26:00):
and that used to seem so daunting, but then when
you realize you're in different pods. I have a pod
with my daughter, I have a pod with my fiance.
We have a pod when all the kids are together,
and then the very rare one when I'm alone. And
that makes it work if you celebrate that and acknowledge
what it really is and not the optics of what
it's supposed to be. You know, and other people have said,
I don't fix you, I fix myself, meaning I'm not
(26:22):
trying to change you. I just work on myself and
you work on you. So I'm curious about from a
granular level, yes, getting through all that ship knowing that
there's gonna be shipped too. For young people, they think
it's a fairy tale and it's all just gonna work
out because level comp roll, which is the biggest bag
of bullshit going. So I'm sort of talking about like
that kind of toolbox of success. Um. I like being
(26:43):
with her. You know. The one thing I've found this
lockdown is that we have a great relationship and we
really like each other, and we have a lot of similarities.
Were very similar as people, were also very different, which
is also you know, I think helps the relationship. Um,
she's really incredible human being. It's been her power. I
(27:06):
think that's kept us together through hard times. And I've
been responsible for a lot of those hard times, so
I can't say that we that we you know, kind
of did it together. It was her power that I
couldn't let go. I get it, I really do. That's interesting.
There's one peacock and then you know, sometimes there's one
sort of solid tree with the roots that like, there's
(27:28):
the tree that's sitting there to stump in the middle
of the wood while you run around and get lost
in the forest, and then that she's still there. And
I guess that's an interesting thing for relationships because there
needs to be a solid rock, and that solid rock
often is attracted to someone like You're like me, who
is the you know, the the electric one, and you
know that they cannot there really cannot only be one
peacock usually in a relationship, and it seems like it's
(27:50):
you and it seems like it's me. Um what you
are feeling about age relationship to it, dynamic with it,
you know, internal struggle with it, you mean getting all yeah,
like you know, you're a pop star and you know,
you know what it's like, I mean, you're you're beautiful,
you're very handsome, and I'm surprised. I don't know how
old you are, but if you were doing an album
at seventy nine, then you're older than I am. I
(28:11):
don't feel that young. So you're very handsome man. Please
don't think I'm flirting with you until your barber call,
and not like it either. I'm just saying it's a fact.
It seems to be an empirical like a fact that
you don't look old at all. But you know what
it's like to be like a team pop idol and
now you're older and you definitely can't probably move his
fast and torring doesn't feel the same and you wake
up and you definitely don't feel the same also, and
you don't have the same audience. So what do you
(28:32):
think about all that? Um? I always wanted a long career.
First of all, I'll be seventy two in August, so wow.
I still do understand that there's a phrase don't let
the old man in, and that's I'm a big believer
in that. And I think I always think I'm like
sixteen and I get up on stage and that it's
that guy again. You know, it's that kid is still there?
(28:54):
I think if I couldn't do what I wanted to
do on stage, i'd certainly stopped playing. I have so
much fun up on stage that I can't see me
as a seven year old getting up there and doing that.
But the guy inside me wants that so much. And
I think that's part of what keeps someone young, is
that that they're still really passionate about the thing that
(29:16):
they were passionate about when they were kids. And I'm
still I still have that drive. I suffer from depression,
so depression is a lot of my driver as well,
trying to prove to myself that you know, I'm not
a jerk. Well, it's funny, they say, you know, just
these sayings it keeps you young, but it is. It's
like you have an older car and you just let
it sit in the garage. It's gonna get older if
(29:37):
you drive it and take care of it. So you're
out there like working the literal instrument. But I think
it's interesting that you said if you couldn't get up
there and do what you were doing, and not just
that you couldn't physically do it, if you didn't think
you were doing it, well, you'd fold. And I feel
that way about business and you know, like relevance, things
like that. There was a documentary about Joan Rivers and
she said that part of her identity was what the
(29:58):
calendar said, how busy she was. I'm the opposite. I
would love for them to be nothing in the calendar.
And I say, if the tables go cold, I'll walk out.
When the tables go cold, you walk out of the casino.
And I'm totally cool with that. Sounds like you're also
cool with that. It is what it is. Yeah, yeah,
I think so. People say you're ever going to retire.
I say, well, if I retired, I just get a
(30:18):
band together and go on the road, which is when
I'm what I'm doing, you know. But I don't know.
I don't really I don't really see that and I
don't know what that means other than I live day
to day and uh, I'm passionate about it and at
times I'm not. When I'm not, I don't do it.
It does sound like comedy a lot, which is so
(30:39):
interesting because I interviewed Kevin Nealen and I'm finding parallels.
Who would ever expect the comedy, you know, is like this.
But we talked about the comic strip and then he
just like, you know, he says that, look how old
I am and I live a great life with my
wife and California, and I get up and I go
in the shitty hotels and I go do stand up
and you know, I like it. I want to connect
with the people. So it's very interesting and very similar.
(31:00):
I've actually talked with him and we've we remember talking
to doing and saying that we did feel kind of similar.
And I saw instantly that there was a similarity in
our attitudes. It feels like it. I literally energetically felt
it from the beginning and the way you approach the
business and like, you just do it. It's what you do.
It's weird and you should do He has a hiking show.
(31:21):
You should tell him that I said you should do
it because it's weird. Like you guys should just have
this conversation out of hike. It's just really he's great
and I just literally see these similarities. Um, you have
two kids, yes, two thirty five, and what do they
do and what are they like? And what do they
how did they grow up? Deffinitely what do they make
of all this? Well, you know, this was their life,
(31:43):
This is their home. My dad never brought the army home,
and I've never brought the whole you know, rock scene home,
but you know, his guitars everywhere, and they're aware I'm
recording and doing stuff. And my eldest son's actually an
amazing musician, but he's also a brilliant actor and he's
just starting to move on not now. And my youngest
son is a school teacher and it's very passionate, loves kids,
(32:06):
and is uh just got married and he's they're both
actually just really starting to flourish. So I'm very You're
only as happy as your most unhappy child, so I'm
I'm very you know, I feel great about them both
now and uh, I've been dad, but I guess they
see me also is kind of a friend too. I
have a great relationship with them both. I took time
(32:28):
off from my career when they were born to hang
with them and raise them, and I think that's that's
paid off for certain what you put in you get out,
and being present in work is so important that you're
giving it your all when you're with your audience, that
you're really connecting with them. But then when you're with
your kids, it's the same thing people are with their kids,
but not with their kids. You know, you're on your phone,
in your online shopping, your social media, and young mom,
(32:50):
my wife and I see young moms all the time
in the park with their kids and they're on their phone,
and we thank you missing well. You know, when we
had our kids a little, we were with them and
what enjoying their interactions and being with them, and my god,
I know it's the death of human interaction. It's different
high school walking. Yeah, and I see people missing their
little kids lives, both, you know, the dad and the
(33:12):
mom because they're on this freaking phone. So we were
very luckily. It wasn't there for us when our kids
were a little and we had we were very much,
you know, a part of their life and with them
the whole time. We took you know, I took him
to New Zealand for a TV series I did there,
and they went to schools in New Zealand for a
while and they've had a really interesting life. But because
(33:33):
I traveled so much as a kid, my dad was
in there, like I said, in the army, and we
moved every two years, and it was really brutal. Me
and the new kid in school all the time, and
I hated that, which is why I ended up hating school.
And in the end, I got picked out of school
in eleventh grade because it just wasn't working for me
or for school for that matter. Um So I've we've
been in this house for like twenty five years now,
(33:54):
and I always wanted a very stable place to raise
my kids. I never never what I get there, but
I think that's been the clulest thing I've done, is
to find a place where I'm happy. Well that's that's
just it's a house, but it's metaphorical to living, like
you said, the rock scene, but keeping your family unit intact.
It seems like everybody is not wood flourishing and thriving,
(34:17):
and you've had that sort of base. You have a foundation,
so you can run around and do all the things
that you need to do, but you have that nest
and that foundation to go home to. That I do
think is very important for people. And it's funny because
I have been moving and renovating and and when I
feel uprooted, I feel unsettled. I'm very house proud, and
I like the feeling of the nesting and the solid
because I have a crazy life, so I don't like
(34:40):
when when base camp is threatened, it's it's very unsettling.
So it sounds like you've kept that intact, which is
is a great model. Oh so, what has been the
rose of your career and what has been the thorn
(35:00):
of your career? I don't know. I mean, I can't
really think of like a one high point in my career.
It's kind of just been a long journey. Um. I
think writing writing model on Autobiography was a real high point,
probably because the most a recent thing. But I think
just I've I've always loved writing pros and I started
(35:20):
getting into it and I actually have two novels out
now because of that, And that's because that's a new
path for me. I love that. I love writing because
you can write both songwriting and prose writing. Novel writing
you can do anywhere. You don't need an audience, you
don't need someone you know paying for something. You just
sit down and you do it. And that's been that's
been a real high point for me. I have my
(35:41):
second novel out on Audible right now, called World on Fire,
and we're gonna put that out in book for him
pretty soon. As well, and that's been a real blast
for me doing following that path writing music I've been
doing since I was fifteen. I mean, obviously, you know
Jesse's Girl being a hit, the first album being a hit.
That Always remember that because it kind of comes out
of nowhere. You have no you know, no one's expecting anything,
(36:04):
no one knows who you are, and it's just the
power of the music that suddenly makes it, you know,
to a certain success level. So I've been I've been
doing that all my life, and it's kind of the
new stuff that I take on that I look at
as as high points, you know. Certainly like the rum
thing with Sammy has been a blast, and uh yeah,
so I guess it's it's kind of the different things.
I guess I look at music as my day job
(36:26):
and the high points although it's an exciting day job,
the high points of the things that are passion projects. Yeah. Um,
who do you think is the best musician of our time? Yeah? Like, right,
of all time and then of this time. Well, I
mean that covers a lot of ground. You know, you
get into what you like and you know, I mean,
(36:48):
one of the greatest guitar players is Tommy Emmanuel and
you know, not everybody knows who he is. And then
as you know Paul McCartney, who was idolized as a
kid because he could he was a great writer and
a great performer and a great singer, and so he's
always the one I first kind of come up with,
you know, because he he was my my guy when
(37:08):
I was a kid, you know. And then by Beethoven
is also my mind that he could sit under a
tree and write a score like that in his head.
So there's there's so many different levels of brilliance that,
you know, and then there's the iconic early Elvis that
came out of nowhere. You know, I no want to follow.
He was just following some of the black artists that
(37:29):
he loved and the country scene. So it's it's such
a giant palette that to pick one kind of right,
It's like Italian food, Chinese food, Thai food. There's different
dishes from different places. But when you're listening to the radio, now,
who are you like, allow this this this guy or
girl's looking great, they're good or this is wild? Oh
(37:50):
new stuff? Well, I mean a lot of it. Maybe
just I'm getting older and I'm sounding like my parents saying, Oh, Richard,
that all sounds a sign. But you know, I hear
the same drum sound, I hear the same writers, I
hear the same chord progression, I hear the same synthesizers.
I hear the same melodies over and over. And as
a musician, you know, you can you know chord progressions.
(38:11):
You can tell there you're are just using the same thing,
was trying to sound like everybody else who it was
a new successful you know, I think there are some
amazing talents, you know. I mean I think. I mean
we used to do a version of Roar live in
my show that like a very rocked up version, and
we also did the version of what's the Taylor Swift
(38:33):
song shake It Off? You know? So I mean, I
I there's a lot of talent out there. But then
someone comes along like Louis Capaldi, and I go, holy shit,
there's still room for someone to do something different, and uh,
you know it's a guy with a staggering voice, and
you know, just sit down with Billie Eilish too. The
first time I heard Billie Eilish, I don't okay, this
(38:55):
girl's stepping out of the norm and that's how you
notice somebody. I think when you have a longer, longer
musical view than just like, you know, the last ten
years or then just like a taste good but it's
not good for me, meaning you could like the way
something sounds, but you need to appreciate all the layers
under in the creativity, which is how I view different products.
(39:15):
But you you're noticing all the texture and layers that
everybody else wouldn't necessarily notice. Yeah, I think there's a
you know, and I still listen to all the bands.
I'm a band guy, really, and there's not a lot
of airplay for bands anymore. But you know, I mean
real bands, you know, you know, play their own instruments
and write their own you know, write their own songs
and not That's still really where my heart is. Okay.
(39:37):
So you're on an island and for whatever reason, for talent,
for good people, for entertainment and I mean maybe humor
in addition to music, you're on an island and you
pick up five musicians in addition to yourself. Who are
the five people that you're inviting on this island with
you to spend a long time with your You're on
a Desert Islands. Five other musicians who are the I
(40:00):
mean dead or alive? Yes, dead or alive. Um, we'll
be Hendrix, Uh, Paul McCartney, John Lennon, Tom Petty, Um,
Joni Mitchell of course awesome. Um well, I won't ask
you about your thorn because I don't want to end
on a negative note. But my thorne is my depression,
(40:22):
which is a threat. It's not like a one time
thing that happened. It's just like your your thorn of yours,
you know, it's created big thornes in my life for sure. Yeah,
it's funny because I first, for the first time ever recently,
I've been thinking about you know, for me, it's O
C D. Like I literally, you know, I'm a beyond
obsessive in perfection and everything has to be in order,
not in a way where I have to like, you know,
(40:42):
touch myself five times on one hand or the other,
or that I can't shake someone's hand, just order, order
and organization to the point where if it's not perfect
and I forget nothing, So it's madning, I mean, it's
also it's also part of you know, your success, and
my depression is part of my It makes makes me
feel I have to keep proving myself and I have
(41:02):
to do better, and you know, because I'm I'm not
worth it. And so it's I realized when I was
writing my autobiography that it was actually, you know, it
was part of my driver, that there's a front and
the back to everything, And as bad as it makes
me feel, it's also responsible for I think, my persistence
and my drive and also the access to feelings to
(41:25):
you're describing it as just because you want to be liked,
but I mean the access to lows. I mean, it's
got to be a lot about what music is about,
singing about the highs and the lows, and you nailed
it because likewise, yes, it's exactly I could. There's nothing
I can't accomplish, finish, I miss nothing. So it's good,
but it's not good for me. It might be that
it's good for the music, but it's not good for you.
But Matthew McConaughey was on this podcast and he called
(41:47):
these Sharada's book it's really good, really really good and funny,
but he calls these the green lights. But it's also
a red light. Like it's a red light because it
stops you down, But depending upon how you look at it,
it's also a green light. Yeah, it's a you know,
I've always believed in yin ya hang and that nothing
is all good or all bad. It's a mixture of both,
and you just you have to find the good the
(42:08):
good part. So again that's you know, it's been with
me since I was sixteen, so I've learned to live
with it. So sometimes try to, you know, see both
sides of the coin. Rick, it was such a pleasure
talking to you. Is a really different, interesting, textural conversation
that I really enjoyed and I think the listeners are
gonna enjoy and take away from so. And I so
(42:28):
appreciate your time. Happy to do it. Always fun to
talk to you. So that was Rick Springfield, and that
was a different conversation. That was a more last textual, granular, warm,
(42:48):
emotionally intelligent conversation. You know, people have been saying to
me that they're listening to the podcast and they're hearing
things that they haven't heard before. And they know these
people for years in so many different ways. They're hearing
us discussed things that they haven't heard discussed before. And
there's just so much to take away for you emotionally, professionally,
(43:09):
family wise, business wise, parent wise, you know, kid wise,
relationship wise, love wise, sex wise, therapy wise. But how interesting.
But I would find a parallel between keaven Nelon and
Rick Springfield that Rick Springfield knew about Like he said,
that's so funny because we are similar. So I have
a wonderful day. Raped review and subscribe and thanks. Just
(43:37):
b is hosted an executive produced by me Bethany Frankel.
Just Be is a production of Be Real Productions and
I Heart Radio. Our Managing Producer is Fiona Smith and
our producer is Stephanie Stender. Our EP is Morgan Levoy.
To catch more moments from the show, follow us on
Instagram and just be with Bethanie w BO to become