April 9, 2025 • 38 mins
The dark side of working on reality television set, a Lisa Vanderpump call, and why OnlyFans has led to a more peaceful life.
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Speaker 1 (00:12):
Hi, Hey, Bethany, nice to meet you.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
It's nice to meet you. Thanks for having me on.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
So this is Patrick McDonald.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
What I didn't realize is that you've worked on thirteen
Bravo seasons across nine franchises and we've never crossed paths.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
That's right, I know. The one of the few that
I have not done was New York.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
And how many production companies have you worked with?
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Oh gosh, most of the shows I did, so I
did Housewives of Atlanta, Potomac. I was doing a lot
of the East Coast shows with Truly Original before I
moved back out west and started doing a lot of
Evolution shows, which is Beverly Hills, Orange County and vand
of Pump Rules.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
Got it okay?
Speaker 3 (00:58):
So those of you who don't know, I was sent
a video that you did that you posted was out
on Instagram.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
Yes, on Instagram and TikTok.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
Okay, because there was a lot of media pickup of it.
So you posted a video on Instagram and TikTok basically
just expressing yourself and sharing your experience, and it seemed
like something provoked you to just tell a portion of
the truth about your experience as a reality television producer.
(01:35):
Starting from the bottom and moving your way up through
the ranks, Is that accurate?
Speaker 2 (01:39):
Yeah, I mean I've been working with Bravo for the
past five years. I started as a logger, which is
kind of at the bottom of the totem pole in
terms of producers. Some shows call them loggers, some shows
call them associate producers, but basically the people transcribing all
the dialogue for the show so they can write a
hot sheet for the network to see what happened. So
(01:59):
I started there on Married to Medicine, and within five years,
like with it before that, I mean, within like three years,
I climbed the ranks from associate producer, a segment producer,
field producer, senior field producer, to supervising producer. So you know,
by the time I left, I was working I was
directly under the co executive producers on those on my
(02:19):
last three shows.
Speaker 3 (02:20):
So okay, So for people who don't know, when we
started out and we were doing our own hair and
makeup and everything was recorded in our living room versus
now in a studio, there was usually one executive producer,
like the head person in charge. And so now on
shows this big, there are co executive producers, so they
have two show runners. They're the ones running the show,
(02:43):
and then you were right under the show runner, so
you're like reporting directly to them, and they're making the
whole machine work.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
Right, Essentially, I am so like the supervising producers and
the field producers. Essentially, the field producers are the ones
running the show in the field, the co executive producers
and the secutive producers are usually in the office, you know,
working on other things, but out in the field, like
shooting the scenes day to day with the ladies as
me and the other field producers.
Speaker 3 (03:10):
So if you go up into production offices, which in
only rare cases do housewives or talents see behind the
curtain at OZ, but in some cases when you're coming
up over the years for economical reasons, you'd be doing
interviews in the same space where the production offices are.
(03:30):
So if you're doing your interviews in one room, you
walk out and then you walk by that it sort
of seems like a classroom and there's a big whiteboard
and it's kind of got like the family tree looking
type of thing where it's like, here's this person and
they're having a fight with this person so we have
to get these two together.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
Yeah. So it's like, so you've got Jane and Jill,
but Bobby over here knows something that we need to
get to Jill. So we need to get Bobby and
Jane together before you know, got it, Jill and Jay
get together. You know what I mean? Basically, if you're
going into a scene. Was something I usually tell people
is like, if you know cast members, if you're going
into a scene and there's something that you really don't
(04:08):
want to talk about, you can pretty much guarantee that
you're going to be asked about that thing today exactly,
you know.
Speaker 3 (04:13):
And so you spoke fairly briefly compared to what this
interview will be like, and it was sent to me
and it's gotten a decent amount of pickup.
Speaker 1 (04:21):
And I was moved by how beloved you.
Speaker 3 (04:25):
Are and how former cast members begrudged, cast members, current
cast members, crew members, like people in the community verified
and validated you, saying that you had a great reputation
and that cast and crew alike loved you, which, by
(04:45):
the way, we all know that it's very rare that
a cast member is liked by everyone. You're a bad
reality participant or a housewife. If everyone likes you, that
would be the definition of being a bad house wife.
If everyone likes you, something's wrong. Because there's always it's
a zero sum game.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
I mean, content is King. That's the thing that you
hear the most doing these shows. So the biggest priority
is what's happening on screen, and that is a theme
that is prevalent across the board. So yeah, I mean
in so many words like if it's not happening on
the screen, like, it's not the priority. You're holding a camera,
(05:25):
You've been holding a camera for five hours and you
need to pee. Well, sorry, these two ladies are going
in on their second hour talking about the same thing.
You're gonna have to wait to pee or eat, you know, right, unfortunately.
So that's kind of the content is King mentality. Is
this blanket umbrella used to justify putting all these crew
(05:45):
members through, you know, extreme working conditions and you know,
keeping it moving. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (05:52):
So there have been many people who have wanted to
talk on this podcast, and it's not that I've distanced
myself from the reality reckoning that I started. It's that
there's nothing I can really fully do to control it.
The thing that's interesting about you, and why I was
interested in talking to you is because you are not
a disgruntled employee. You were not fired, you have a career,
(06:17):
you're earning an income, You're not suing anyone. So you
are just expressing yourself, which is courageous because like me,
there's no upside to you doing this, like you're doing
this because what it's se you'll tell me why you're
doing this, But from my viewpoint, you are doing this
because you just think it's the right thing to do,
which is courageous because so many crew members have reached
(06:37):
out to me, and you're a crew member, which makes
this drastically different. You never you didn't monetize in the
way that a housewife did. You didn't make millions of dollars.
You're not begging to come back. You are a crew member.
And I talked a lot about the crew members because
they are invisible and forgotten, and many people feel exploited
in the crew community. But they don't have a void
(07:00):
because they don't have the same value. And that became
really prevalent during the strike because during the strike everybody
was out of work. But housewives can make money doing
other things and be home doing Zooms, the crew really
could not make any money, and they also didn't have
a voice, and they were desperate to get work again,
so they certainly weren't going to say how they felt.
Speaker 1 (07:18):
So you stand out.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
Well, thank you for saying that. Well, yeah, I mean,
obviously the reality reckoning happening a couple of years ago
definitely like started this conversation, you know, And I think
that you know, I was working on vander Pump Rules
in the midst of that happening, and I will say
just from like the vibe of the crews and the
(07:40):
people that I worked with, because, like you said, crew
members and people behind the scenes don't have as loud
of a voice, Like their voices weren't being represented as
loudly in that beginning of that movement. You know, you
had a lot of big cast members coming out and
speaking of their you know, mistreatment and the things that
they went through. And I know you said, you know,
you talked to some crew members as well, but even still,
(08:02):
like I just because those people aren't known, their voices
aren't amplified, it kind of gets lost in the sauce.
So I feel like at the beginning of that movement,
like maybe like some of the crew's producers didn't feel
as represented in that at the beginning, you know, so
because they weren't like seeing their stories kind of being
(08:22):
talked about and the things that they've gone through being
talked about as loudly and as prevalently as some of
these BRA celebrities. But they're there, the stories are there.
I mean, like like you said, I have been so
blown away and overwhelmed by the response that I have
gotten since I posted those videos. I'm talking like hundreds
and hundreds of messages from crew members, producers, cast members
(08:45):
past and present, like you said, thanking me for saying
the things I said. Thank you for saying the things
that we've all been wanting to say for years but
haven't been able to because we need to work. You know.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
So I am. I do feel like I'm in a
unique position now because I don't want to go back
to that you know what I mean. I don't want
to go back to that grind. I've found, you know,
so much more of a peaceful life, you know, doing OnlyFans,
you know, doing my own thing, generating my own income
and being in charge of my own stuff, you know.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
Setting your own limits and the way you are treated.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 3 (09:20):
Let's compare your work self worth and work life balance
experience on Only Fans between OnlyFans and working on reality
TV and Bravo financially, emotionally, spiritually, all of it.
Speaker 2 (09:39):
Well, yeah, I mean, I can tell you with one
hundred percent conviction that my life is far less toxic
and filled with much less drama now that I am
working like in adult entertainment on OnlyFans than I was
when I was working in reality you know, like I
said in the video I posted, on most of these shows,
(10:00):
you're working like six days a week, You're shooting five days,
and then a lot of times on these shows there's
a six day which has spent in the office looking
at that whiteboard all day. So you've got a Sunday off,
you know, to get your laundry done, to get your
earan's done, and get your life back together before you're
shooting the next day. My life is completely different now.
I like spend months set of time traveling to different
(10:23):
countries to film for OnlyFans, and most of the time
on these trips is spent like enjoying myself and having fun,
and like maybe fifteen percent of the time is spent filming,
you know, and working, editing, doing that kind of stuff.
So the work life balance is just completely different. I
mean in terms of my mental health and my peace
(10:45):
and just like my general happiness and enjoyment of life.
It's night and day, you know, night and day. I
feel like from I'm working on those shows, I mean,
you are living for that show for those three four
months while you're in production on a housewive show or
I mean, that is your life, you know, especially if
you're on location.
Speaker 3 (11:03):
So let's talk about the quality of the work, the
actual work and the morality of the work. What about
the actual work, what you're doing, how do you feel
about it?
Speaker 2 (11:13):
Well, yeah, I mean I will say that I feel
that reality TV is far more invasive than adult entertainment
than OnlyFans, you know, and I'm having sex with people,
you know what I mean. And it's like that is
much less invasive to me than some of the things
that I have been behind the camera for filming for
(11:36):
these shows.
Speaker 3 (11:37):
You know, you feel more morally compromised on reality television
than you do doing adult entertainment.
Speaker 2 (11:43):
One hundred percent. I mean, I don't feel morally compromised
at all. Doing adult entertainment, Like it's the most human,
humanly natural thing a human can do is to like
have sex. Right, So I don't think I have I
don't feel anything im moral about what I'm doing on OnlyFans,
But yeah, there were definitely some moral dilemmas that I
experienced in my later years at Bravo for sure.
Speaker 3 (12:20):
What are the biggest moral dilemmas you faced doing reality television?
What were the moments where you questioned your own integrity.
Speaker 2 (12:30):
I don't know if it was me questioning my own integrity,
but questioning what it is we were all doing as
a whole. I don't think it was one singular moment.
I think it's been a journey, okay getting there. I
mentioned in the video that I made. I think at
the beginning, the first couple of years, I was like
blinded to the toxic environment by my excitement to just
(12:52):
be there. You know, I was a Housewives fan. I've
watched it for years before I started producing these shows,
and it was like fun. You know, they're like, oh shit,
I'm in here, Like, oh, we'sturn some shit up between
like candy and charat. You know, like you know you're
having a good time, and then you know, as time
goes on, you're like, oh wow, this is like really
(13:14):
taking a toll on this woman here, you know, like
or this just seeing how absolutely spent the my colleagues
were and barely even being able to like stay awake
at times on these cash trips because they're so exhausted.
But I will say in terms of the content we
were shooting, the first time, I like kind of paused
(13:39):
and took a step back to myself internally, was like,
whoa wait, what are we doing here? Well, I would
have to say was during scandabal with that reunion with
Rachel Levis fascinating. Yeah, that was uh, you know, I
produced both of the scandaball seasons of Faint of Pump Rules.
I did seasons nine and ten, and and so my
(14:00):
first season was season ten when that big scandal broke
at the very end. And it's so funny because you know,
I worked really closely with Rachel that season about kind
of like finding her voice and like stepping into her own.
This is kind of like she's coming out of her
relationship with James and she's now a character on the
(14:21):
show on her own, so she's not part of this
couple anymore. So we kind of talked a lot about
like stepping into her own power as you know, as
an individual on the show, and we really like leaned
into that a lot. And she had a great season
that year. Like during production, that was Raquel's season, Like
everybody knew it. Everybody was talking about it, like, oh
(14:42):
my god, like look at this. By the way, going
into that season, you know that she was the highest
rated cast member in terms of market research, Like wow,
coming out of season nine and going into ten, she
was the highest rated one more than Lisa.
Speaker 1 (14:57):
Oh what a fault, what a demise?
Speaker 2 (15:00):
Yeah, and so and even like after we kind of
got to the end of filming, it was like Raquel
really really gave us a season here, you know, and
she was kind of like having a hero arc actually.
And then you know, a few weeks after rewrap, of
course we all know what happened. But yeah, that was
a fascinating thing to be a part of and to witness.
(15:25):
And look, I don't want to act like sitting here,
like the entire time we were going through it, I
was like this is problematic and fucked up, you know
what I mean. It wasn't like that it was kind
of like, you know, this is the job I've been
doing for years, but suddenly there's this amplified attention on
this and the vitriol from the world that started to
(15:45):
kick up was pretty intense, you know. And so for
a couple of weeks, like here you had and look,
I understand that this was a very upsetting thing, and
I have a lot of empathy for what Arianna went
through on that show, you know, and and all the
(16:05):
pain that she experienced. Absolutely, but like Arianna had like
the entire world rallying around her, you know what I mean,
So in that moment, you know, that's a lot of
support and that kind of can soften the blow of
this really painful experience she was going through, which she's
entitled to feel about however she feels, right. But then
on the flip side, you have Rachel and thom Sandibal,
(16:29):
who are suddenly like the most hated people in America.
And so for weeks you're building up to this like
amping it up, amping it up, amping it up, of
this vitriol towards them, and then we get to this
reunion where I mean, they and specifically specifically Rachel got annihilated,
(16:50):
you know, So I spent that entire day with Rachel
that reunion. We met super early in the morning, went
and shot like a one on one interview with and Andy,
and then I rode in the van with her together
over to the reunion stage. Like we stopped and got
a smoothie on the way there, and just kind of
(17:11):
worth catching up, you know, like since because we weren't filming,
you know, when that all happened, So like I hadn't
seen her in a minute, so we were just kind
of like catching up on everything that had been going
on and and what she'd been going through. And I like,
I could only imagine what she felt like that day.
(17:31):
Being swept shamed by the entire world is something I
don't think many people could understand. I don't even know
what it could have felt like, but I know that
it couldn't have felt good, you know. So we get
to that reunion and you know, we were in this
trailer like across the street the whole day because you know,
there was like a restraining order filed so her and
(17:53):
Sheena couldn't be in the same building. So Quel was
in a trailer watching most of the reunion until it
was her turn to come on stage. So it was
such a wild experience because it felt like I was
like sitting there with someone and you're like watching a
Housewives reunion, right, and you're like you're seeing you know,
Phedra like annihilate Kenya, you know, with some read right,
(18:17):
and then it's like sending. It's like watching that and
like all right, now it's your turn. You're gonna go
in there and get read by them, or you know.
It was it was a wild experience to watch your
reunion with the person who everyone is talking about and
just destroying.
Speaker 3 (18:35):
And what did you feel like her going into that?
What was she walking into.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
We sat there for hours watching, you know, just and look,
I love a lot of those girls on that show.
I think they're great and I care for them a lot.
Everybody was really upset that day, and at that time
it was a moment of pause. You know. Yeah, so
I'm sitting there with her for hours watching everyone trash her,
(18:58):
and then it's like, well, all right, let's walk on over.
You're ready. You know. It felt like I was walking
her into a firing squad, you know, like we were
walking the green mile to her execution.
Speaker 3 (19:09):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (19:10):
And then sitting there and just like watching her get
just destroyed for look making a mistake. I mean, look,
they made a mistake, you know, which I think is
the most human thing we can do. We all make mistakes.
So I think it just like the sensationalism of it
(19:30):
all just kind of folded in on itself and like
everyone got so amped up by it, and like and
the cast got amped up by it, and then the
more attention the show got, it was just like it
was at a level like one hundred, you know. And
so you get her in there, and I mean, I'm sorry,
but to be called subhuman and to be told that
(19:52):
you should be fucked by a cheese greater like on
national television, I think is pretty pretty unacceptable and disgusting.
But but you know, like I'm pretty sure ten years
from now, when we look back and watched that reunion again,
I think people will look at that with a different
set of eyes as a society.
Speaker 3 (20:10):
And I think ten days, I think when Rachel sat down,
when she walked into talking to me, one hundred percent
of the country hated her. Now I think probably fifty
percent like she got because people have said to me
on the street, oh my god, because people I have
the chills. I have no frame of reference. And people
criticized me for interviewing her when I wasn't a fan
of the show. I hadn't watched the show. I saw
that and I thought amy insane, Like what could she did?
(20:33):
She kill someone's mother? Like she was annihilated and emotionally abused,
and when she tried to walk off the reunion, she
was told to come back. Yeah, so I think you're
it's interesting because it became better ratings to despise her,
like it was working for everybody, was working for the network,
(20:53):
it was working for the people, the cast members. It
just became good television and good ratings to hate her.
And you know, there's a line, and it crossed it.
And they would have paid her anything to come back too,
So she didn't go for the money. Like there are
things that people criticize people about. And yes, she made
a drastic mistake. And I don't even I know her
(21:13):
from the interview and from this experience, So it's not
like I'm vouching for her. I'm saying she's a human.
Speaker 2 (21:17):
I know that. Yeah, I mean she chose her piece.
She chose her piece over this whole glitz and glamor
of this whole thing, because I think she realized that
she didn't want to wear the golden handcuffs anymore.
Speaker 1 (21:30):
You know.
Speaker 3 (21:30):
So, what responsibility do you think that Andy and Lisa
who were there? Andy's a figurehead at the network, if
not technically a producer, he used to be a producer.
He's a figurehead at the network. That he and Lisa
vander Pump, who's an executive producer, what responsibility do they
hold in that experience? And also in asking her about
(21:53):
her meds? And then what responsibility does the production hold,
the production company hold, and then the network like who
are the characters and what responsibility do they all bear
in this type of situation? Well, no one said anything.
It's like someone's bleeding on the side of the road
and no one said anything. So does anyone bear that
responsibility or do they all bear that responsibility?
Speaker 1 (22:15):
Who's accountable?
Speaker 2 (22:16):
Yeah, I mean I guess that would have to fall
on the production company in the network. I guess. I
mean they're all there, you know, the head of the
production company is there at the reunion. Network executives are
there at the reunion. The people who had the power
to intervene in any way we're all there, you know
what I mean? I think that if one of them
(22:39):
had done that, I think that it would have been
listened to, you know, Okay, I mean in the moment
when it's all happening, like, I don't think I was
thinking like who's doing something about this or whatnot. I
just think in the moment I was thinking like holy shit,
like this is brutal and this is this is like
(23:02):
painful to watch, you know, and it's like is this God?
Is this all right? You know what I mean?
Speaker 3 (23:07):
Like Okay, Well, that's that's where the moral compass comes
in because as a person in reality TV, I've said
it's the upside down. So what's happening in my from
my point of view is you're excited something's happening because
it's good for the show. So what's good for the
show is not good for the individual and for the
for the for the mental health. What is extraordinary for
(23:29):
the show? What is game changer? Ratings, Emmys and like
can make or break a show that was on its
last legs is horrendous for the individual. So it's almost
like big corporation is making all this money, but the
people out there are getting cancer by being exposed to
the radiation.
Speaker 2 (23:49):
Yeah. Yeah, that's definitely at the expense. It's all coming
in someone's expense. You know, any big story, in saalacious
event that happens on these shows is coming at a
huge price to someone, you know, and it's uh, it
can be crazy, and you're right, drama and salacious scandals
(24:12):
are rewarded on these shows.
Speaker 3 (24:27):
So have you heard from anyone from Bravo or anyone
from you know, production or anything like that since you
posted your video.
Speaker 2 (24:35):
I have not heard anyone direct like from directly from Bravo. No.
I did, however, get one call from someone that was
trying to steer me in the opposite direction, and that
was from Lisa vander Pump.
Speaker 1 (24:51):
Actually, oh interesting. Do you have a relationship with her?
Speaker 2 (24:56):
Well, I worked with her for two years, you know,
I produced two seasons of vander Pump Rules. We always
had a really great working relationship. You know, we weren't
super close or anything, but you know, always had a great,
great relationship. I haven't spoken to her since we wrapped
season eleven of vander Pump Rules. And then over the
weekend after I posted the video, I got a call
(25:19):
from Lisa and I mean, I really hate to say
this because I'm very disappointed by the call, but in
my opinion, she was calling to manipulate me and use
(25:40):
In my opinion, she was calling to extract information from me,
to see what I was going to do next, to
give me the name, specific names, and to discourage me
from speaking out on this. Unfortunately, I think she was
trying to exploit my good relationship with her and take
advantage of our good working relationship to get information from
(26:03):
me on behalf of someone at either the production company
or the network. And if she's very close with people
at the top of the production company and people at
the top of the network, what's bad for Bravo's business
is bad for Lisa Vanderpump's business. And look, I'm a
reality TV producer. I know how to extract information from someone,
(26:23):
and I know when someone's doing that.
Speaker 3 (26:25):
To me fascinating. That's so fascinating. I would never have
thought of that on my own. Well, that's so fascinating.
Speaker 2 (26:32):
Interesting, like you, Well, yeah, I mean, I did two
seasons of that show with Lisa. We talked to her
a lot of times before a scene where we were
going to talk to one of the cast members, and
I've seen her do this very thing too many of them,
you know what I mean, And so it was kind
of mind blowing for me to be sitting here in Thailand.
It's eleven PM and I get a call from Lisa Vanterpump.
(26:55):
The first words out of her mouth after staying hello were, so,
is it just these two videos then? Or is there
more to come? You know, like trying to see if
I was going to be continuing to speak, but all
under the guise of our friendship. You know, she's calling
me as a friend and no one had she had
spoken to no one about this beforehand. I think she
(27:16):
reiterated that about three times on the phone call.
Speaker 1 (27:18):
You're the only person she spoke to.
Speaker 2 (27:21):
And well, I was like honestly disappointed in her by
the call because I knew exactly what she was doing,
you know what I mean. And uh, it's did not
feel good to get that call, honestly, And I mean,
what it told me is that like they're listening, you
know what I mean, They hear what I'm saying, and
(27:43):
they know that I'm right, you know.
Speaker 1 (27:44):
Yes, And so you're strong.
Speaker 3 (27:46):
You're the strongest person I've spoken to so far. Period
period the end, everybody talks a big game.
Speaker 2 (27:53):
But yeah, you know, she called me, and you know,
she was saying, like, you know, you know how much
I loved working with you, and how I know how
empathetic you are, and you have such a bright future
ahead of you. I would just hate to see you
do something that's going to cost you jobs in the future.
And then when I kind of you know, she didn't
(28:14):
ask me, like, do you still want to work in
this industry? And I was like, you know, not really,
you know, my life's kind of moving in a different direction.
And she asked me, like, what do you stand to
gain from doing all of this? And I said, well, Lisa,
I don't. Well, I think the reason that a lot
of people are resonating with what I'm saying is because
I don't really stand a lot to gain from what
(28:34):
I'm doing here other than trying to like initiate some
change for these hard working crews, you know, on my
way out. So I don't like really see a negative side.
And honestly, the only people that would have a problem
with what I said in that video are the people
who are perpetuating the toxic culture that I speak of.
Speaker 1 (28:52):
Wow, that's interesting.
Speaker 2 (28:54):
So for me, it felt like this call was coming
on behalf of the realm, and I felt really gross
to be like manipulating, and it just it was kind
of comical to me to have it being done to
me in such a way that I've seen it being
done to these other cast members.
Speaker 1 (29:13):
Oh, you were a cast member for a moment, like
you were a cast member.
Speaker 2 (29:17):
Yes, she was trying to produce me. Yeah, she was
trying to produce me. Wow, you know, I felt like
she was trying to produce me. So yeah. And she
also then began hounding me for names of specific people
who were mistreating the crew, you know, so like Jolie,
who are these showroomers that are treating the crew horribly?
And I'm like, well, Lisa, there's many showrunners that do that,
(29:39):
you know, And she's like, well, who specifically I need
to know because I'm in charge of hiring these people
that I need to know so I don't hire them,
you know, And I'm like, okay, you know, I didn't, like,
you know, I didn't take de bait. But it felt
like it was such a blatant manipulation to me because
(29:59):
then in the next breath she was talking about well,
I mean, would you would you want to come back
to vander Pump rules, you know? And I was like, no,
I wouldn't want to come back to vander Pump Rules
at this point, you know what I mean. So I
just kind of felt like throwing things at the wall, like, oh, well,
maybe he wants to come back or I don't know.
It was it was very strange. It was like throwing
(30:20):
things at the wall to see what might work well,
scaring you out of your future jobs. Oh well he
doesn't care anymore, Okay, well maybe would you want to
come back to this or do you what? It was
just very much like trying to get a gauge of
where I was, where my mind was, to see like
what kind of strategy we could move forward with, you
know what? That's yeah, that's what it very much felt like.
(30:43):
And then she was so she kept literally pressing for names,
and I was like, Lisa, you know, I'm not going
to say any names, and she goes, come on, now
you open the door, now walk through it.
Speaker 3 (30:52):
I'm like, what when you're ironically trying to protect the crew,
which brings me.
Speaker 2 (30:57):
To ask, I know, I'm like, why would you? Why
would anyone have a problem with us speaking out about
crew members being mistreated and like don't you want the
crews to be taken care of on your shows? Like
why do you want me to stop talking about this?
This is important? You know?
Speaker 1 (31:15):
So why now?
Speaker 3 (31:18):
Why me?
Speaker 1 (31:20):
Why here?
Speaker 2 (31:22):
Why now? I think it's important for me to speak
about this now because I have the opportunity to. You know,
I'm no longer at the mercy of these networks or
the production company. They have nothing that I want any longer.
So I have nothing to lose by speaking out on
these mistreatments that are going on. And if I can
(31:46):
impart some change on my way out of these shows,
then why would I not want to do that? If
on my way out I can make their lives a
little better or maybe initiate some change and bring some
light to this, then That's what I'm gonna do.
Speaker 3 (32:01):
There's an audience faction, it's reduced, but that are like
they will say, oh, Bethany, they you know this is
they made you. They did not make me. I was
successful in anything I was going to do. I'm more
successful now astronomically in different spaces than then. So I
was going to be successful because I grew up in
a very abusive, crazy life at the racetrack, and I
(32:22):
am a survivor. It is why I'm aggressive, and it's
who I am. But they made money off my back.
They got other people to do that show based on
the success that I had. I'm the only one that's
ever had that level of success. And the other people
would come and do the show and say to producers,
I'm sure you've heard it that they wanted to do
what I had done. So many producers I'm not going
to name the names, have said to me, oh my god,
(32:43):
every Housewife comes in and says they want to do
what Bethany did, so coming for me, it doesn't land
because people are like, oh my god, you made more
money than anyone and you want to shoot on the
hand that fed you, And I'm like, I've fed the
hand too.
Speaker 2 (32:55):
Yeah. Well literally also case in point, I mean it
goes for the crew too. I mean there was a
report that came out recently that Housewives generated over three
hundred million dollars for Peacock last year. All while the
rate of pay for producers and crew members has gone
unchanged for like the past decade. You know, there's been
(33:16):
no increase in the rates of each position in so
many years. While the network and Peacock is raking in
millions and millions and millions of dollars, how about putting
some of that money in the cameraman's pockets who is
literally carrying the show on his back, or putting those
in the pockets of the producers who are working day
(33:36):
and night to bring these stories to life. Maybe maybe
compensate them for some of the work they're doing and
maybe start treating them better.
Speaker 1 (33:43):
Well, here's who has reached out to you.
Speaker 3 (33:45):
Which is interesting because, like I said, I started this
by saying, it's remarkable the people who are currently on
the show would would say something to you.
Speaker 1 (33:53):
So there's a ship.
Speaker 2 (33:54):
So these are the people who commented publicly.
Speaker 3 (33:56):
Yeah, these are the people that commented publicly. Crystal Kung Minkoff,
you were a shining light during very challenging experiences for
me miss seeing you on a daily heart the real Candice,
my Darling Gaga, you shine for all of us in
a world that is sometimes dark, twisty and convoluted.
Speaker 2 (34:13):
You are a light.
Speaker 1 (34:13):
You are brave. I love you so much. And then
she said.
Speaker 3 (34:16):
Reality TV cast and crew Needa union full stop. Thank
you for saying the quiet part out loud, Love you down.
And then Vander Pump Rules Co executive producer, Love you
and loved working with you.
Speaker 1 (34:27):
Unbelievable.
Speaker 3 (34:29):
Sharis Jackson, Jordan Potomac happiness over everything. You're such an
amazing person and by far one of the realist producers
in the industry.
Speaker 1 (34:35):
Wishing you the very best.
Speaker 3 (34:37):
Robin Dixon Potomac, I love you, Patrick Jason Augustine, who's
an audio mixer on Winter House said absolutely loved working
with you. Thank you for saying all this. I wish
you the very best in your endeavors. The whole industry
needs to be unionized. Lauren Flucker, segment producer, two seasons
Real Housewives of Atlanta, also Beverly Hills my mentor, I'm
(34:57):
gonna cry, my mentor my friend. I love you and
is always I appreciate your transparency. I so hate that
it came to this, because your passion for any project
or show you take on is truly aspirational. I've become
a better producer and person under your tutelage and with
your advocacy.
Speaker 1 (35:12):
We see you. Thanks for sharing. I love you.
Speaker 3 (35:15):
And then last DP and head of Camera Department vand Apart,
Brules Patrick, I consider you one of the best producers
I've ever known, but more importantly, I consider you a friend.
So while we may be losing one of the best
producers out there, I'm just glad you found that work
life balance. So many of us in the reality TV
industry are constantly chasing love you, brother. Those people will
have been reprimanded by now, and I give them a
shout out too, because it's courageous even to like and
(35:38):
comment on your video, which they did, which speaks to
you and why we're talking and why so many people
have reached out to me. But I wanted to talk
to you because I felt that you had the best
intentions with no agenda.
Speaker 2 (35:50):
Well, thank you, Bethany. I do appreciate that very much,
and I appreciate you inviting me on to talk about
this and to continue this conversation about this treatment that's
clearly been going on for many years now, Like you said,
started doing this like two years ago, and I'm glad
to see that people are starting to talk about it
again and that it's starting to come back up. I mean,
(36:13):
you just read all of those amazing things that people
said about me. I mean, I feel that way about
those people. You know, So those people are still in
that world. They're still working, they're still doing that, They're
still busting their ass on those cast strips, they're still
schlepping around these tropical locations in the heat, you know, sweating.
Speaker 1 (36:32):
So were you nervous about talking to me about it?
Speaker 2 (36:34):
I was.
Speaker 3 (36:34):
Actually I'm flattered and grateful that you chose to talk
talk to me, hear about it, because I don't really
talk about this stuff that much, you know often.
Speaker 2 (36:42):
No, I wasn't nervous to talk to you at all.
I mean, you're you know, you've been in it. You
know what I mean, So you get it. So you
know what I'm talking about.
Speaker 3 (36:52):
You've seen it, so you know, Listen, you should be
very proud of yourself. You should feel strong. You should
feel honored that you're speaking up, that you're living in
your truth, that you're doing what you want to do.
It's very hard to speak up. These are very powerful
entities that are layered and tentacles and they will. You know,
(37:12):
this is extremely courageous. I have to say this to you.
This is extremely courageous. Like I said, I recognize that
even the people commenting they're not in my financial position.
They don't you know, they don't have a nest egg.
This is extremely honorable and courageous where people live paycheck
to paycheck. So that I would like to say, you
are a class act. You are honorable, you are honest,
(37:33):
you are courageous, You have no agenda, you're the best intentions.
Speaker 1 (37:37):
People love you.
Speaker 3 (37:39):
You're beloved by cast, by crew, you are respected, and
I'm really grateful, So I thank you, Thanks Tethany, thanks
for having me.
Speaker 2 (38:00):
Go pers walk back to after walk back, the faster
Hi, Hey, Bethany, nice to meet you.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
It's nice to meet you. Thanks for having me on.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
So this is Patrick McDonald.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
What I didn't realize is that you've worked on thirteen
Bravo seasons across nine franchises and we've never crossed paths.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
That's right, I know. The one of the few that
I have not done was New York.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
And how many production companies have you worked with?
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Oh gosh, most of the shows I did, so I
did Housewives of Atlanta, Potomac. I was doing a lot
of the East Coast shows with Truly Original before I
moved back out west and started doing a lot of
Evolution shows, which is Beverly Hills, Orange County and vand
of Pump Rules.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
Got it okay?
Speaker 3 (00:58):
So those of you who don't know, I was sent
a video that you did that you posted was out
on Instagram.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
Yes, on Instagram and TikTok.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
Okay, because there was a lot of media pickup of it.
So you posted a video on Instagram and TikTok basically
just expressing yourself and sharing your experience, and it seemed
like something provoked you to just tell a portion of
the truth about your experience as a reality television producer.
(01:35):
Starting from the bottom and moving your way up through
the ranks, Is that accurate?
Speaker 2 (01:39):
Yeah, I mean I've been working with Bravo for the
past five years. I started as a logger, which is
kind of at the bottom of the totem pole in
terms of producers. Some shows call them loggers, some shows
call them associate producers, but basically the people transcribing all
the dialogue for the show so they can write a
hot sheet for the network to see what happened. So
(01:59):
I started there on Married to Medicine, and within five years,
like with it before that, I mean, within like three years,
I climbed the ranks from associate producer, a segment producer,
field producer, senior field producer, to supervising producer. So you know,
by the time I left, I was working I was
directly under the co executive producers on those on my
(02:19):
last three shows.
Speaker 3 (02:20):
So okay, So for people who don't know, when we
started out and we were doing our own hair and
makeup and everything was recorded in our living room versus
now in a studio, there was usually one executive producer,
like the head person in charge. And so now on
shows this big, there are co executive producers, so they
have two show runners. They're the ones running the show,
(02:43):
and then you were right under the show runner, so
you're like reporting directly to them, and they're making the
whole machine work.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
Right, Essentially, I am so like the supervising producers and
the field producers. Essentially, the field producers are the ones
running the show in the field, the co executive producers
and the secutive producers are usually in the office, you know,
working on other things, but out in the field, like
shooting the scenes day to day with the ladies as
me and the other field producers.
Speaker 3 (03:10):
So if you go up into production offices, which in
only rare cases do housewives or talents see behind the
curtain at OZ, but in some cases when you're coming
up over the years for economical reasons, you'd be doing
interviews in the same space where the production offices are.
(03:30):
So if you're doing your interviews in one room, you
walk out and then you walk by that it sort
of seems like a classroom and there's a big whiteboard
and it's kind of got like the family tree looking
type of thing where it's like, here's this person and
they're having a fight with this person so we have
to get these two together.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
Yeah. So it's like, so you've got Jane and Jill,
but Bobby over here knows something that we need to
get to Jill. So we need to get Bobby and
Jane together before you know, got it, Jill and Jay
get together. You know what I mean? Basically, if you're
going into a scene. Was something I usually tell people
is like, if you know cast members, if you're going
into a scene and there's something that you really don't
(04:08):
want to talk about, you can pretty much guarantee that
you're going to be asked about that thing today exactly,
you know.
Speaker 3 (04:13):
And so you spoke fairly briefly compared to what this
interview will be like, and it was sent to me
and it's gotten a decent amount of pickup.
Speaker 1 (04:21):
And I was moved by how beloved you.
Speaker 3 (04:25):
Are and how former cast members begrudged, cast members, current
cast members, crew members, like people in the community verified
and validated you, saying that you had a great reputation
and that cast and crew alike loved you, which, by
(04:45):
the way, we all know that it's very rare that
a cast member is liked by everyone. You're a bad
reality participant or a housewife. If everyone likes you, that
would be the definition of being a bad house wife.
If everyone likes you, something's wrong. Because there's always it's
a zero sum game.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
I mean, content is King. That's the thing that you
hear the most doing these shows. So the biggest priority
is what's happening on screen, and that is a theme
that is prevalent across the board. So yeah, I mean
in so many words like if it's not happening on
the screen, like, it's not the priority. You're holding a camera,
(05:25):
You've been holding a camera for five hours and you
need to pee. Well, sorry, these two ladies are going
in on their second hour talking about the same thing.
You're gonna have to wait to pee or eat, you know, right, unfortunately.
So that's kind of the content is King mentality. Is
this blanket umbrella used to justify putting all these crew
(05:45):
members through, you know, extreme working conditions and you know,
keeping it moving. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (05:52):
So there have been many people who have wanted to
talk on this podcast, and it's not that I've distanced
myself from the reality reckoning that I started. It's that
there's nothing I can really fully do to control it.
The thing that's interesting about you, and why I was
interested in talking to you is because you are not
a disgruntled employee. You were not fired, you have a career,
(06:17):
you're earning an income, You're not suing anyone. So you
are just expressing yourself, which is courageous because like me,
there's no upside to you doing this, like you're doing
this because what it's se you'll tell me why you're
doing this, But from my viewpoint, you are doing this
because you just think it's the right thing to do,
which is courageous because so many crew members have reached
(06:37):
out to me, and you're a crew member, which makes
this drastically different. You never you didn't monetize in the
way that a housewife did. You didn't make millions of dollars.
You're not begging to come back. You are a crew member.
And I talked a lot about the crew members because
they are invisible and forgotten, and many people feel exploited
in the crew community. But they don't have a void
(07:00):
because they don't have the same value. And that became
really prevalent during the strike because during the strike everybody
was out of work. But housewives can make money doing
other things and be home doing Zooms, the crew really
could not make any money, and they also didn't have
a voice, and they were desperate to get work again,
so they certainly weren't going to say how they felt.
Speaker 1 (07:18):
So you stand out.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
Well, thank you for saying that. Well, yeah, I mean,
obviously the reality reckoning happening a couple of years ago
definitely like started this conversation, you know, And I think
that you know, I was working on vander Pump Rules
in the midst of that happening, and I will say
just from like the vibe of the crews and the
(07:40):
people that I worked with, because, like you said, crew
members and people behind the scenes don't have as loud
of a voice, Like their voices weren't being represented as
loudly in that beginning of that movement. You know, you
had a lot of big cast members coming out and
speaking of their you know, mistreatment and the things that
they went through. And I know you said, you know,
you talked to some crew members as well, but even still,
(08:02):
like I just because those people aren't known, their voices
aren't amplified, it kind of gets lost in the sauce.
So I feel like at the beginning of that movement,
like maybe like some of the crew's producers didn't feel
as represented in that at the beginning, you know, so
because they weren't like seeing their stories kind of being
(08:22):
talked about and the things that they've gone through being
talked about as loudly and as prevalently as some of
these BRA celebrities. But they're there, the stories are there.
I mean, like like you said, I have been so
blown away and overwhelmed by the response that I have
gotten since I posted those videos. I'm talking like hundreds
and hundreds of messages from crew members, producers, cast members
(08:45):
past and present, like you said, thanking me for saying
the things I said. Thank you for saying the things
that we've all been wanting to say for years but
haven't been able to because we need to work. You know.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
So I am. I do feel like I'm in a
unique position now because I don't want to go back
to that you know what I mean. I don't want
to go back to that grind. I've found, you know,
so much more of a peaceful life, you know, doing OnlyFans,
you know, doing my own thing, generating my own income
and being in charge of my own stuff, you know.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
Setting your own limits and the way you are treated.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 3 (09:20):
Let's compare your work self worth and work life balance
experience on Only Fans between OnlyFans and working on reality
TV and Bravo financially, emotionally, spiritually, all of it.
Speaker 2 (09:39):
Well, yeah, I mean, I can tell you with one
hundred percent conviction that my life is far less toxic
and filled with much less drama now that I am
working like in adult entertainment on OnlyFans than I was
when I was working in reality you know, like I
said in the video I posted, on most of these shows,
(10:00):
you're working like six days a week, You're shooting five days,
and then a lot of times on these shows there's
a six day which has spent in the office looking
at that whiteboard all day. So you've got a Sunday off,
you know, to get your laundry done, to get your
earan's done, and get your life back together before you're
shooting the next day. My life is completely different now.
I like spend months set of time traveling to different
(10:23):
countries to film for OnlyFans, and most of the time
on these trips is spent like enjoying myself and having fun,
and like maybe fifteen percent of the time is spent filming,
you know, and working, editing, doing that kind of stuff.
So the work life balance is just completely different. I
mean in terms of my mental health and my peace
(10:45):
and just like my general happiness and enjoyment of life.
It's night and day, you know, night and day. I
feel like from I'm working on those shows, I mean,
you are living for that show for those three four
months while you're in production on a housewive show or
I mean, that is your life, you know, especially if
you're on location.
Speaker 3 (11:03):
So let's talk about the quality of the work, the
actual work and the morality of the work. What about
the actual work, what you're doing, how do you feel
about it?
Speaker 2 (11:13):
Well, yeah, I mean I will say that I feel
that reality TV is far more invasive than adult entertainment
than OnlyFans, you know, and I'm having sex with people,
you know what I mean. And it's like that is
much less invasive to me than some of the things
that I have been behind the camera for filming for
(11:36):
these shows.
Speaker 3 (11:37):
You know, you feel more morally compromised on reality television
than you do doing adult entertainment.
Speaker 2 (11:43):
One hundred percent. I mean, I don't feel morally compromised
at all. Doing adult entertainment, Like it's the most human,
humanly natural thing a human can do is to like
have sex. Right, So I don't think I have I
don't feel anything im moral about what I'm doing on OnlyFans,
But yeah, there were definitely some moral dilemmas that I
experienced in my later years at Bravo for sure.
Speaker 3 (12:20):
What are the biggest moral dilemmas you faced doing reality television?
What were the moments where you questioned your own integrity.
Speaker 2 (12:30):
I don't know if it was me questioning my own integrity,
but questioning what it is we were all doing as
a whole. I don't think it was one singular moment.
I think it's been a journey, okay getting there. I
mentioned in the video that I made. I think at
the beginning, the first couple of years, I was like
blinded to the toxic environment by my excitement to just
(12:52):
be there. You know, I was a Housewives fan. I've
watched it for years before I started producing these shows,
and it was like fun. You know, they're like, oh shit,
I'm in here, Like, oh, we'sturn some shit up between
like candy and charat. You know, like you know you're
having a good time, and then you know, as time
goes on, you're like, oh wow, this is like really
(13:14):
taking a toll on this woman here, you know, like
or this just seeing how absolutely spent the my colleagues
were and barely even being able to like stay awake
at times on these cash trips because they're so exhausted.
But I will say in terms of the content we
were shooting, the first time, I like kind of paused
(13:39):
and took a step back to myself internally, was like,
whoa wait, what are we doing here? Well, I would
have to say was during scandabal with that reunion with
Rachel Levis fascinating. Yeah, that was uh, you know, I
produced both of the scandaball seasons of Faint of Pump Rules.
I did seasons nine and ten, and and so my
(14:00):
first season was season ten when that big scandal broke
at the very end. And it's so funny because you know,
I worked really closely with Rachel that season about kind
of like finding her voice and like stepping into her own.
This is kind of like she's coming out of her
relationship with James and she's now a character on the
(14:21):
show on her own, so she's not part of this
couple anymore. So we kind of talked a lot about
like stepping into her own power as you know, as
an individual on the show, and we really like leaned
into that a lot. And she had a great season
that year. Like during production, that was Raquel's season, Like
everybody knew it. Everybody was talking about it, like, oh
(14:42):
my god, like look at this. By the way, going
into that season, you know that she was the highest
rated cast member in terms of market research, Like wow,
coming out of season nine and going into ten, she
was the highest rated one more than Lisa.
Speaker 1 (14:57):
Oh what a fault, what a demise?
Speaker 2 (15:00):
Yeah, and so and even like after we kind of
got to the end of filming, it was like Raquel
really really gave us a season here, you know, and
she was kind of like having a hero arc actually.
And then you know, a few weeks after rewrap, of
course we all know what happened. But yeah, that was
a fascinating thing to be a part of and to witness.
(15:25):
And look, I don't want to act like sitting here,
like the entire time we were going through it, I
was like this is problematic and fucked up, you know
what I mean. It wasn't like that it was kind
of like, you know, this is the job I've been
doing for years, but suddenly there's this amplified attention on
this and the vitriol from the world that started to
(15:45):
kick up was pretty intense, you know. And so for
a couple of weeks, like here you had and look,
I understand that this was a very upsetting thing, and
I have a lot of empathy for what Arianna went
through on that show, you know, and and all the
(16:05):
pain that she experienced. Absolutely, but like Arianna had like
the entire world rallying around her, you know what I mean,
So in that moment, you know, that's a lot of
support and that kind of can soften the blow of
this really painful experience she was going through, which she's
entitled to feel about however she feels, right. But then
on the flip side, you have Rachel and thom Sandibal,
(16:29):
who are suddenly like the most hated people in America.
And so for weeks you're building up to this like
amping it up, amping it up, amping it up, of
this vitriol towards them, and then we get to this
reunion where I mean, they and specifically specifically Rachel got annihilated,
(16:50):
you know, So I spent that entire day with Rachel
that reunion. We met super early in the morning, went
and shot like a one on one interview with and Andy,
and then I rode in the van with her together
over to the reunion stage. Like we stopped and got
a smoothie on the way there, and just kind of
(17:11):
worth catching up, you know, like since because we weren't filming,
you know, when that all happened, So like I hadn't
seen her in a minute, so we were just kind
of like catching up on everything that had been going
on and and what she'd been going through. And I like,
I could only imagine what she felt like that day.
(17:31):
Being swept shamed by the entire world is something I
don't think many people could understand. I don't even know
what it could have felt like, but I know that
it couldn't have felt good, you know. So we get
to that reunion and you know, we were in this
trailer like across the street the whole day because you know,
there was like a restraining order filed so her and
(17:53):
Sheena couldn't be in the same building. So Quel was
in a trailer watching most of the reunion until it
was her turn to come on stage. So it was
such a wild experience because it felt like I was
like sitting there with someone and you're like watching a
Housewives reunion, right, and you're like you're seeing you know,
Phedra like annihilate Kenya, you know, with some read right,
(18:17):
and then it's like sending. It's like watching that and
like all right, now it's your turn. You're gonna go
in there and get read by them, or you know.
It was it was a wild experience to watch your
reunion with the person who everyone is talking about and
just destroying.
Speaker 3 (18:35):
And what did you feel like her going into that?
What was she walking into.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
We sat there for hours watching, you know, just and look,
I love a lot of those girls on that show.
I think they're great and I care for them a lot.
Everybody was really upset that day, and at that time
it was a moment of pause. You know. Yeah, so
I'm sitting there with her for hours watching everyone trash her,
(18:58):
and then it's like, well, all right, let's walk on over.
You're ready. You know. It felt like I was walking
her into a firing squad, you know, like we were
walking the green mile to her execution.
Speaker 3 (19:09):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (19:10):
And then sitting there and just like watching her get
just destroyed for look making a mistake. I mean, look,
they made a mistake, you know, which I think is
the most human thing we can do. We all make mistakes.
So I think it just like the sensationalism of it
(19:30):
all just kind of folded in on itself and like
everyone got so amped up by it, and like and
the cast got amped up by it, and then the
more attention the show got, it was just like it
was at a level like one hundred, you know. And
so you get her in there, and I mean, I'm sorry,
but to be called subhuman and to be told that
(19:52):
you should be fucked by a cheese greater like on
national television, I think is pretty pretty unacceptable and disgusting.
But but you know, like I'm pretty sure ten years
from now, when we look back and watched that reunion again,
I think people will look at that with a different
set of eyes as a society.
Speaker 3 (20:10):
And I think ten days, I think when Rachel sat down,
when she walked into talking to me, one hundred percent
of the country hated her. Now I think probably fifty
percent like she got because people have said to me
on the street, oh my god, because people I have
the chills. I have no frame of reference. And people
criticized me for interviewing her when I wasn't a fan
of the show. I hadn't watched the show. I saw
that and I thought amy insane, Like what could she did?
(20:33):
She kill someone's mother? Like she was annihilated and emotionally abused,
and when she tried to walk off the reunion, she
was told to come back. Yeah, so I think you're
it's interesting because it became better ratings to despise her,
like it was working for everybody, was working for the network,
(20:53):
it was working for the people, the cast members. It
just became good television and good ratings to hate her.
And you know, there's a line, and it crossed it.
And they would have paid her anything to come back too,
So she didn't go for the money. Like there are
things that people criticize people about. And yes, she made
a drastic mistake. And I don't even I know her
(21:13):
from the interview and from this experience, So it's not
like I'm vouching for her. I'm saying she's a human.
Speaker 2 (21:17):
I know that. Yeah, I mean she chose her piece.
She chose her piece over this whole glitz and glamor
of this whole thing, because I think she realized that
she didn't want to wear the golden handcuffs anymore.
Speaker 1 (21:30):
You know.
Speaker 3 (21:30):
So, what responsibility do you think that Andy and Lisa
who were there? Andy's a figurehead at the network, if
not technically a producer, he used to be a producer.
He's a figurehead at the network. That he and Lisa
vander Pump, who's an executive producer, what responsibility do they
hold in that experience? And also in asking her about
(21:53):
her meds? And then what responsibility does the production hold,
the production company hold, and then the network like who
are the characters and what responsibility do they all bear
in this type of situation? Well, no one said anything.
It's like someone's bleeding on the side of the road
and no one said anything. So does anyone bear that
responsibility or do they all bear that responsibility?
Speaker 1 (22:15):
Who's accountable?
Speaker 2 (22:16):
Yeah, I mean I guess that would have to fall
on the production company in the network. I guess. I
mean they're all there, you know, the head of the
production company is there at the reunion. Network executives are
there at the reunion. The people who had the power
to intervene in any way we're all there, you know
what I mean? I think that if one of them
(22:39):
had done that, I think that it would have been
listened to, you know, Okay, I mean in the moment
when it's all happening, like, I don't think I was
thinking like who's doing something about this or whatnot. I
just think in the moment I was thinking like holy shit,
like this is brutal and this is this is like
(23:02):
painful to watch, you know, and it's like is this God?
Is this all right? You know what I mean?
Speaker 3 (23:07):
Like Okay, Well, that's that's where the moral compass comes
in because as a person in reality TV, I've said
it's the upside down. So what's happening in my from
my point of view is you're excited something's happening because
it's good for the show. So what's good for the
show is not good for the individual and for the
for the for the mental health. What is extraordinary for
(23:29):
the show? What is game changer? Ratings, Emmys and like
can make or break a show that was on its
last legs is horrendous for the individual. So it's almost
like big corporation is making all this money, but the
people out there are getting cancer by being exposed to
the radiation.
Speaker 2 (23:49):
Yeah. Yeah, that's definitely at the expense. It's all coming
in someone's expense. You know, any big story, in saalacious
event that happens on these shows is coming at a
huge price to someone, you know, and it's uh, it
can be crazy, and you're right, drama and salacious scandals
(24:12):
are rewarded on these shows.
Speaker 3 (24:27):
So have you heard from anyone from Bravo or anyone
from you know, production or anything like that since you
posted your video.
Speaker 2 (24:35):
I have not heard anyone direct like from directly from Bravo. No.
I did, however, get one call from someone that was
trying to steer me in the opposite direction, and that
was from Lisa vander Pump.
Speaker 1 (24:51):
Actually, oh interesting. Do you have a relationship with her?
Speaker 2 (24:56):
Well, I worked with her for two years, you know,
I produced two seasons of vander Pump Rules. We always
had a really great working relationship. You know, we weren't
super close or anything, but you know, always had a great,
great relationship. I haven't spoken to her since we wrapped
season eleven of vander Pump Rules. And then over the
weekend after I posted the video, I got a call
(25:19):
from Lisa and I mean, I really hate to say
this because I'm very disappointed by the call, but in
my opinion, she was calling to manipulate me and use
(25:40):
In my opinion, she was calling to extract information from me,
to see what I was going to do next, to
give me the name, specific names, and to discourage me
from speaking out on this. Unfortunately, I think she was
trying to exploit my good relationship with her and take
advantage of our good working relationship to get information from
(26:03):
me on behalf of someone at either the production company
or the network. And if she's very close with people
at the top of the production company and people at
the top of the network, what's bad for Bravo's business
is bad for Lisa Vanderpump's business. And look, I'm a
reality TV producer. I know how to extract information from someone,
(26:23):
and I know when someone's doing that.
Speaker 3 (26:25):
To me fascinating. That's so fascinating. I would never have
thought of that on my own. Well, that's so fascinating.
Speaker 2 (26:32):
Interesting, like you, Well, yeah, I mean, I did two
seasons of that show with Lisa. We talked to her
a lot of times before a scene where we were
going to talk to one of the cast members, and
I've seen her do this very thing too many of them,
you know what I mean, And so it was kind
of mind blowing for me to be sitting here in Thailand.
It's eleven PM and I get a call from Lisa Vanterpump.
(26:55):
The first words out of her mouth after staying hello were, so,
is it just these two videos then? Or is there
more to come? You know, like trying to see if
I was going to be continuing to speak, but all
under the guise of our friendship. You know, she's calling
me as a friend and no one had she had
spoken to no one about this beforehand. I think she
(27:16):
reiterated that about three times on the phone call.
Speaker 1 (27:18):
You're the only person she spoke to.
Speaker 2 (27:21):
And well, I was like honestly disappointed in her by
the call because I knew exactly what she was doing,
you know what I mean. And uh, it's did not
feel good to get that call, honestly, And I mean,
what it told me is that like they're listening, you
know what I mean, They hear what I'm saying, and
(27:43):
they know that I'm right, you know.
Speaker 1 (27:44):
Yes, And so you're strong.
Speaker 3 (27:46):
You're the strongest person I've spoken to so far. Period
period the end, everybody talks a big game.
Speaker 2 (27:53):
But yeah, you know, she called me, and you know,
she was saying, like, you know, you know how much
I loved working with you, and how I know how
empathetic you are, and you have such a bright future
ahead of you. I would just hate to see you
do something that's going to cost you jobs in the future.
And then when I kind of you know, she didn't
(28:14):
ask me, like, do you still want to work in
this industry? And I was like, you know, not really,
you know, my life's kind of moving in a different direction.
And she asked me, like, what do you stand to
gain from doing all of this? And I said, well, Lisa,
I don't. Well, I think the reason that a lot
of people are resonating with what I'm saying is because
I don't really stand a lot to gain from what
(28:34):
I'm doing here other than trying to like initiate some
change for these hard working crews, you know, on my
way out. So I don't like really see a negative side.
And honestly, the only people that would have a problem
with what I said in that video are the people
who are perpetuating the toxic culture that I speak of.
Speaker 1 (28:52):
Wow, that's interesting.
Speaker 2 (28:54):
So for me, it felt like this call was coming
on behalf of the realm, and I felt really gross
to be like manipulating, and it just it was kind
of comical to me to have it being done to
me in such a way that I've seen it being
done to these other cast members.
Speaker 1 (29:13):
Oh, you were a cast member for a moment, like
you were a cast member.
Speaker 2 (29:17):
Yes, she was trying to produce me. Yeah, she was
trying to produce me. Wow, you know, I felt like
she was trying to produce me. So yeah. And she
also then began hounding me for names of specific people
who were mistreating the crew, you know, so like Jolie,
who are these showroomers that are treating the crew horribly?
And I'm like, well, Lisa, there's many showrunners that do that,
(29:39):
you know, And she's like, well, who specifically I need
to know because I'm in charge of hiring these people
that I need to know so I don't hire them,
you know, And I'm like, okay, you know, I didn't, like,
you know, I didn't take de bait. But it felt
like it was such a blatant manipulation to me because
(29:59):
then in the next breath she was talking about well,
I mean, would you would you want to come back
to vander Pump rules, you know? And I was like, no,
I wouldn't want to come back to vander Pump Rules
at this point, you know what I mean. So I
just kind of felt like throwing things at the wall, like, oh, well,
maybe he wants to come back or I don't know.
It was it was very strange. It was like throwing
(30:20):
things at the wall to see what might work well,
scaring you out of your future jobs. Oh well he
doesn't care anymore, Okay, well maybe would you want to
come back to this or do you what? It was
just very much like trying to get a gauge of
where I was, where my mind was, to see like
what kind of strategy we could move forward with, you
know what? That's yeah, that's what it very much felt like.
(30:43):
And then she was so she kept literally pressing for names,
and I was like, Lisa, you know, I'm not going
to say any names, and she goes, come on, now
you open the door, now walk through it.
Speaker 3 (30:52):
I'm like, what when you're ironically trying to protect the crew,
which brings me.
Speaker 2 (30:57):
To ask, I know, I'm like, why would you? Why
would anyone have a problem with us speaking out about
crew members being mistreated and like don't you want the
crews to be taken care of on your shows? Like
why do you want me to stop talking about this?
This is important? You know?
Speaker 1 (31:15):
So why now?
Speaker 3 (31:18):
Why me?
Speaker 1 (31:20):
Why here?
Speaker 2 (31:22):
Why now? I think it's important for me to speak
about this now because I have the opportunity to. You know,
I'm no longer at the mercy of these networks or
the production company. They have nothing that I want any longer.
So I have nothing to lose by speaking out on
these mistreatments that are going on. And if I can
(31:46):
impart some change on my way out of these shows,
then why would I not want to do that? If
on my way out I can make their lives a
little better or maybe initiate some change and bring some
light to this, then That's what I'm gonna do.
Speaker 3 (32:01):
There's an audience faction, it's reduced, but that are like
they will say, oh, Bethany, they you know this is
they made you. They did not make me. I was
successful in anything I was going to do. I'm more
successful now astronomically in different spaces than then. So I
was going to be successful because I grew up in
a very abusive, crazy life at the racetrack, and I
(32:22):
am a survivor. It is why I'm aggressive, and it's
who I am. But they made money off my back.
They got other people to do that show based on
the success that I had. I'm the only one that's
ever had that level of success. And the other people
would come and do the show and say to producers,
I'm sure you've heard it that they wanted to do
what I had done. So many producers I'm not going
to name the names, have said to me, oh my god,
(32:43):
every Housewife comes in and says they want to do
what Bethany did, so coming for me, it doesn't land
because people are like, oh my god, you made more
money than anyone and you want to shoot on the
hand that fed you, And I'm like, I've fed the
hand too.
Speaker 2 (32:55):
Yeah. Well literally also case in point, I mean it
goes for the crew too. I mean there was a
report that came out recently that Housewives generated over three
hundred million dollars for Peacock last year. All while the
rate of pay for producers and crew members has gone
unchanged for like the past decade. You know, there's been
(33:16):
no increase in the rates of each position in so
many years. While the network and Peacock is raking in
millions and millions and millions of dollars, how about putting
some of that money in the cameraman's pockets who is
literally carrying the show on his back, or putting those
in the pockets of the producers who are working day
(33:36):
and night to bring these stories to life. Maybe maybe
compensate them for some of the work they're doing and
maybe start treating them better.
Speaker 1 (33:43):
Well, here's who has reached out to you.
Speaker 3 (33:45):
Which is interesting because, like I said, I started this
by saying, it's remarkable the people who are currently on
the show would would say something to you.
Speaker 1 (33:53):
So there's a ship.
Speaker 2 (33:54):
So these are the people who commented publicly.
Speaker 3 (33:56):
Yeah, these are the people that commented publicly. Crystal Kung Minkoff,
you were a shining light during very challenging experiences for
me miss seeing you on a daily heart the real Candice,
my Darling Gaga, you shine for all of us in
a world that is sometimes dark, twisty and convoluted.
Speaker 2 (34:13):
You are a light.
Speaker 1 (34:13):
You are brave. I love you so much. And then
she said.
Speaker 3 (34:16):
Reality TV cast and crew Needa union full stop. Thank
you for saying the quiet part out loud, Love you down.
And then Vander Pump Rules Co executive producer, Love you
and loved working with you.
Speaker 1 (34:27):
Unbelievable.
Speaker 3 (34:29):
Sharis Jackson, Jordan Potomac happiness over everything. You're such an
amazing person and by far one of the realist producers
in the industry.
Speaker 1 (34:35):
Wishing you the very best.
Speaker 3 (34:37):
Robin Dixon Potomac, I love you, Patrick Jason Augustine, who's
an audio mixer on Winter House said absolutely loved working
with you. Thank you for saying all this. I wish
you the very best in your endeavors. The whole industry
needs to be unionized. Lauren Flucker, segment producer, two seasons
Real Housewives of Atlanta, also Beverly Hills my mentor, I'm
(34:57):
gonna cry, my mentor my friend. I love you and
is always I appreciate your transparency. I so hate that
it came to this, because your passion for any project
or show you take on is truly aspirational. I've become
a better producer and person under your tutelage and with
your advocacy.
Speaker 1 (35:12):
We see you. Thanks for sharing. I love you.
Speaker 3 (35:15):
And then last DP and head of Camera Department vand Apart,
Brules Patrick, I consider you one of the best producers
I've ever known, but more importantly, I consider you a friend.
So while we may be losing one of the best
producers out there, I'm just glad you found that work
life balance. So many of us in the reality TV
industry are constantly chasing love you, brother. Those people will
have been reprimanded by now, and I give them a
shout out too, because it's courageous even to like and
(35:38):
comment on your video, which they did, which speaks to
you and why we're talking and why so many people
have reached out to me. But I wanted to talk
to you because I felt that you had the best
intentions with no agenda.
Speaker 2 (35:50):
Well, thank you, Bethany. I do appreciate that very much,
and I appreciate you inviting me on to talk about
this and to continue this conversation about this treatment that's
clearly been going on for many years now, Like you said,
started doing this like two years ago, and I'm glad
to see that people are starting to talk about it
again and that it's starting to come back up. I mean,
(36:13):
you just read all of those amazing things that people
said about me. I mean, I feel that way about
those people. You know, So those people are still in
that world. They're still working, they're still doing that, They're
still busting their ass on those cast strips, they're still
schlepping around these tropical locations in the heat, you know, sweating.
Speaker 1 (36:32):
So were you nervous about talking to me about it?
Speaker 2 (36:34):
I was.
Speaker 3 (36:34):
Actually I'm flattered and grateful that you chose to talk
talk to me, hear about it, because I don't really
talk about this stuff that much, you know often.
Speaker 2 (36:42):
No, I wasn't nervous to talk to you at all.
I mean, you're you know, you've been in it. You
know what I mean, So you get it. So you
know what I'm talking about.
Speaker 3 (36:52):
You've seen it, so you know, Listen, you should be
very proud of yourself. You should feel strong. You should
feel honored that you're speaking up, that you're living in
your truth, that you're doing what you want to do.
It's very hard to speak up. These are very powerful
entities that are layered and tentacles and they will. You know,
(37:12):
this is extremely courageous. I have to say this to you.
This is extremely courageous. Like I said, I recognize that
even the people commenting they're not in my financial position.
They don't you know, they don't have a nest egg.
This is extremely honorable and courageous where people live paycheck
to paycheck. So that I would like to say, you
are a class act. You are honorable, you are honest,
(37:33):
you are courageous, You have no agenda, you're the best intentions.
Speaker 1 (37:37):
People love you.
Speaker 3 (37:39):
You're beloved by cast, by crew, you are respected, and
I'm really grateful, So I thank you, Thanks Tethany, thanks
for having me.
Speaker 2 (38:00):
Go pers walk back to after walk back, the faster
Host
Bethenny Frankel
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