August 3, 2023 • 45 mins
This week on Katie’s Crib, Katie sits down with “Waitress” stage star and television actress Nicolette Robinson! The two discuss the actress and her husband’s (Leslie Odom Jr., Aaron Burr from “Hamilton”) new children’s book, "I Love You More than You'll Ever Know."
Nicolette first opens up about raising two children while being in the entertainment industry with her husband. She also reflects on her birth experiences of both of her children, revealing the highs and lows along the way.
Finally, Nicolette goes into the story behind her latest project with Leslie - a children's book titled "I Love You More than You'll Ever Know." Listen to how Nicole and Leslie worked together during the pandemic to co-author the piece.
Plus, did you know that Nicolette’s children also make an appearance in the book? Tune in for the details on how the kiddos joined in on the book-developing fun.
Executive Producers: Sandie Bailey, Alex Alcheh, Lauren Hohman, Tyler Klang & Gabrielle Collins
Producer & Editor: Casby Bias
Associate Producer: Akiya McKnight
NOTE: This episode was recorded on May 16, 2023.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Katie's Crib, a production of Shondaland Audio in
partnership with iHeartRadio. What I love the most is the drawings,
Like on the last page, it's so you and Leslie
and Lucy and Abel. What was it like when you
showed them the book for the first time.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Oh, they loved it. They loved it and they joy
was so sweet and added little little Easter eggs in
throughout of special things that are to them, like the
Lucy's favorite bear is there, Abel's tiger Passy. And they
just noticed there were things that were actually theirs.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
Oh my god, that's did they were? They like, my
parents are the coolest? Or do they not get it?
Speaker 2 (00:38):
No, no, they don't. They don't care about that. But
they love that the book was that they loved that
they were in the book. And when we went in
to record the song, we les and I recorded it first,
and then we brought the kids in.
Speaker 3 (00:50):
Is that who is that the egg? Yeah? The kids?
That is not their voices? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (00:56):
Yeah, Hello, everybody, All your mom's out there today. We
have a repeat guest because I just love her so much.
And also she just wrote a book, a children's book
(01:18):
that is so special, and I was like, we got
to talk about how you did that.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
Oh.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
Also, it's not only just a book, there's a song
that goes along with it. It's a new children's book
called I Love You More Than You'll Ever Know, written
by my dear dear friends Nicolette Robinson and Leslie Odom Junior. Also,
since she last came on, she was on an episode
in season two called Milestones when we were talking about
(01:46):
a one year birthday with her daughter Lucy, and guess
what now she has a son, Able, so we have
a lot to catch up on. She and I were
pregnant during COVID together, so I feel like we're bonded
for life, and I want to talk to all about
raising two children while being in the entertainment business with
her incredibly successful self and husband. She's best known as
the first black woman to take on the leading role
(02:08):
in the Broadway show Waitress that I Got to be
there for her Broadway debut. Her husband, Leslie Odom Junior,
is best known as the original Aaron Burr and hit
musical Hamilton. Nicolette recently partnered with Leslie in this new
children's book again, it's called I Love You More than
you'll ever know.
Speaker 3 (02:26):
The two of them have a six year old daughter,
Lucille Ruby, and a two year old son, Abel.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
Finney's Nicolette Welcome Back vibt Nicolette Robinson, I have not.
It is a disgusting amount of time that has gone
by since I've seen you, and I was. I feel
forever connected to you on so many levels. A because
I got to be there for your Broadway debut performance,
(02:53):
which was.
Speaker 3 (02:54):
I know it was literal Hi. First of all, Hi,
Oh my god.
Speaker 1 (03:01):
I got to stand next to you for that debut
and I couldn't sing any of my parts because I
was so.
Speaker 3 (03:09):
For clemped crying. I literally couldn't.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
Like we have the openings up song, the first song
called opening Up, which is Nicolette doing all this stuff,
but then Dawn on one side and Natasha on the
other side. We have to do all these harmonies. Yeah, right,
I was not singing. I was just crying.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
I think we were all crying. That was such a
Oh God, that was so special. It was the That
was the best year of my entire life for sure.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
And also what was so crazy about it is that
we were making our Broadway debuts. Because I think I yeah,
like maybe a few weeks ahead. Yeah, and we both
had small children. Oh yeah, how old was Lucy at
the time?
Speaker 2 (03:50):
Lucy was like fifteen months, I feel like, and what
I'lbi was like like ninety or something.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
Yeah. Yeah, and he turned one when we were doing it.
So I started it and he was like, yeah, I
think eight or nine months, and then by the end
he was just turning a year.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
But I feel like Albe's six or seven months younger
than Lucy.
Speaker 3 (04:10):
I think, is she in kindergarten now?
Speaker 1 (04:11):
No?
Speaker 2 (04:12):
Yeah, yeah, she's in kindergarten.
Speaker 1 (04:14):
And then what was insane was so we are connected
forever A because of Broadway debuts. B because we did
Broadway with small children, which is absolutely insane. And then
we got pregnant near each other during a global pandemic.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
That was crazy. We just sinked it all up. We
just always sink our lives up and somehow.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
And now you have two, we both have two. What
how is it feeling like? How is it feeling being
a mother of two?
Speaker 2 (04:45):
I think we're finally in a So Lucy is six
and Abel is two. They both had just recently had birthdays.
I feel like I'm finally in a groove where I'm
starting like literally just started feeling like myself again, just
started getting my freedom.
Speaker 1 (05:01):
Guy, are so linked up because I feel the same
way like Vias two and a half and Albie's five
and a half almost sikes and I finallyish feel better.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
Yeah, it's insanity. It's insanity what we do, the things
that we do as mom.
Speaker 3 (05:18):
So they're in a good place.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
You guys are in a groove is able, like it's
school or some sort of preschool or there's some sort
of care involved.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
We haven nanny help. We have a lot of help actually,
because our that our mothers, both my mom and Leslie's
mom also lives in the area, so they get to
have some grandparent time and we have two people who
like in certain times, can fill in and help with
the kids. So it's which is I almost feel crazy
(05:46):
saying that because I know that's such a blessing, but
it's literally been the only way that les and I
can both be traveling at the same time for work.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
And you guys work a ton a ton, yeah, and
you both work out of town a ton yeah, yeah,
and it is a lot to manage. Have you done
any trips or jobs where you've taken them both, or
is it better and easier for you to just stay
at home and your mother. What's so cool about your
family unit and family bond is that your mother is
(06:15):
so involved, your dad's involved, and Leslie's parents are so involved, waitress,
your mom was like living with us, Yeah, living with
us and.
Speaker 3 (06:22):
Taking care over.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (06:23):
So have you taken them to any jobs or have
you just or or do they always stay home?
Speaker 2 (06:28):
I mean we're still kind of navigating that and figuring
it out. And I literally just started working again this
past year, not even past year, It's been like not
even six months. I just shot three movies back to
back and it was the most the biggest blessing, and
I find it and that's part of why I feel
a little bit more like myself again, because I'm actually
doing the stuff that I've been just craving and meeting
(06:50):
and that I love. Yeah, but that just started in
October September, October of last of this past year. We're
still figuring all that stuff out. But I know that
I would not have been able to do it without
the support system that we have. And you know how
hard it is to find nanny's that you trust and
you love, and it's been a process and we finally
(07:12):
feel like we found the best team around us and
the best system. It's massive. It's really the only way
that I think that's partially why the jobs came my way,
because I finally held the space for letting that in,
because I was so afraid of leaving the kids and
having to go and be busy and not be able
(07:33):
to like hold it down. A lot of the times
I'll go and just come back my stuff hasn't quite
been long enough. Like the longest one. The longest amount
of time I've been away was three and a half
weeks for one of the films I shot.
Speaker 1 (07:45):
How was that I had? Yet I am so terrified.
Do you see like really sensitive about it?
Speaker 3 (07:51):
Or is she like pretty? I feel like it depends
on the kid.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
Like, yeah, my daughter right now, VIA's like okay by mommy,
and my son is like he counted the sub nights
I was away and then he uses it for weeks
up like then if I have to miss in bedtime
or something, he'll be.
Speaker 3 (08:06):
Like, but you were just gone for seven nights.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
But I, oh my god, I wonder honestly, if it's
boy girl thing because Lucy is totally she misses me,
but she's for sure a daddy's girl, and so she
honestly misses Les Moore when he's gone, and I think.
Speaker 3 (08:23):
She misses me, but she I was like that growing up.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
Yeah, yeah, and then Able he is completely a mama's boy.
This is his tears that's on my sweatshirt right now.
Speaker 3 (08:36):
Saying dark mark on a sweatshirt.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
I was like, oh, I think you have something or
maybe it is a cool sweatshirts.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
That refuse to go away. I don't know why it
hasn't dried or what, but I just have his tear
marks from when I just came into the back house
to do this podcast.
Speaker 3 (08:50):
He doesn't want me Barnacle.
Speaker 2 (08:52):
Oh yeah, he's mama. You're just a sweet guy.
Speaker 3 (08:56):
Tell me.
Speaker 1 (08:56):
Also, Okay, so you finally feel like you're in a groove.
You're looking you have a support system.
Speaker 3 (09:01):
You left them.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
Lucy deals well with it. Ables struggling, but he'll get
on board. Yeah, can you tell me.
Speaker 3 (09:08):
I know you had a really rough fur.
Speaker 1 (09:11):
I remember this vaguely, like your labor with Lucy was
unmedicated and it was a breastfeeding.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
Road that was really tough.
Speaker 1 (09:22):
Yes, And I'm curious how Able's birth and his the
postpartum experience. Was it vastly different? Did you rectify things
that you didn't like the first time around? Talk to
me about the two different experiences.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
Yeah, I think you remember Also that, like, my pregnancy
with Lucy was really challenging because Les was shooting a
movie in Europe for most of the time and he
was like in and out of town constantly, and so
I had a huge percentage of my pregnancy the first
pregnancy by myself, and emotionally it was. It was so hard.
(10:00):
I only feel like I'm at a place where I've
moved past it, but it's still is this close to
the surface that if I talk too much about it,
I could start crying. Yeah, And it was a tough
time in our marriage. Honestly, we really went through it,
and that was probably one of the hardest times in
our marriage.
Speaker 3 (10:15):
And you guys have been together a long time.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
Yeah, fifteen years now, this summer is how long? And
we just celebrated our ten year wedding anniversary in December.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
Crazy, it's crazy.
Speaker 1 (10:26):
Yeah, So you have ups and downs, and you being
alone for your first pregnancy and just feeling. I don't
want to say the word abandoned, because it's not like
he did it on purpose. He booked a great opportunities,
but that's hard, and.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
We were navigating it for the first time. We really
didn't know what to expect, and he also was going
through his own sort of crisis of becoming a dad
for the first time. And I was just like going
through all these milestones going to doctor's appointments by myself,
and which is now super normal for everybody because we've
all dealt with the pandemic, but I know that was
a really hard thing for a lot of people to
go through, to just go to doctor's appointments by themselves.
(11:01):
And then I'd feel the feel her kicking and moving
for the first time, and I'd just be in bed
by myself. Oh, that was suck. It was awful. It
was so awful. The second time around, we did this
during the pandemic, and we were just together more than
we have ever been in our entire relationship, except for
maybe the beginning of our relationship when we were both
(11:24):
unemployed actors, just in our West Hollywood tiny apartment, and
so that was such a beautiful healing experience. Because we
just got to be together for so much of it
as a family, and so starting with that, and then
also I worked out through most of my pregnancy, which
really helped me feel better in my body for the
(11:44):
second time, which I didn't do with Lucy. And then
also the song was that.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
For specific reasons like it didn't feel good or you
were just not Oh maybe you were just sad, like
you were depressed about him being not there and you
just didn't have the energy to I think so.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
And I think also I wasn't working out like regularly
in my even before before pregnancy. Yeah, it wasn't really
a part of my just like everyday life. And if
I was doing a theater thing at the time or
training for something, or if we were like we're gonna
do P ninety X together, we would do stuff like that.
Speaker 3 (12:15):
You remember that I haven't heard of P ninety X.
Everybody was.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
I mean that I think I don't know, but I
feel like it's still something you could look up on YouTube. Honestly,
I loved it and I've been thinking about it.
Speaker 3 (12:37):
Ninety X. I haven't heard that in I want to
say nine ers.
Speaker 1 (12:41):
Now, there's just like a million, a million ways to
work out the first one it really was.
Speaker 2 (12:46):
It really was. And there was like one other one.
I can't remember the name of it, but yeah, that
is the funniest I ever heard.
Speaker 1 (13:05):
So your second pregnancy, you were active, which probably help.
Speaker 2 (13:08):
It helped so much. I didn't want the bounce back
to be so awful. I mean, the first time the
bounce back was it was it just felt impossible. It
still happened. We still do it, and your body goes
back in its own time, even if whether you're exercising
or not. But I just didn't want it to feel
like torture, and so keeping active really helped my body
(13:29):
feel better.
Speaker 1 (13:30):
You're also such a mover, like as a person like
you and Leslie like you're just like because you're such.
Speaker 3 (13:35):
A performer and like a whole body performer.
Speaker 1 (13:37):
I'm sure it must have felt really weird for you
to like be stagnant with your first pregnancy and then
try to get back because you like dance and sing
and act and do all these things.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
And then your body just changes and you don't know
what the hell is going on. And Lauren Wiseman who
Wiseman Sacks, I always say her maide a name, but
she's the most amazing. She has this program, this company
called Mama Method, and she's just basically like my personal trainer.
She just does pilates and yoga and bar with me
and she's one of my best friends.
Speaker 3 (14:08):
I don't know her. The Mama Method it's like workout
for pregnancy.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
For Mama's basically, I mean, because she still trains me
now and she's gotten me in some of the best
shape I've ever been in my life. Aside from when
I did p ninety X, I.
Speaker 3 (14:24):
Had to look her up.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
I also did hypno birthing.
Speaker 1 (14:29):
Yes, I want to hear this about So you did
hypno birthing with Abel, not with Lucy?
Speaker 3 (14:35):
What brought on that decision?
Speaker 2 (14:37):
So I had, as many people do. I had a
lot of trauma after the first labor with Lucy. It
just it just scared me. I don't know, I just
it's an intense thing that we go through.
Speaker 3 (14:49):
And you had no epidural with her, right.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
No epidural?
Speaker 3 (14:52):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (14:52):
What the that's crazy. But it was also a pretty
fast labor. I feel like it was like, I don't know,
six hours total or something. So it was very fast
and furious, and medically it was a very safe, very
like really textbook text books like birth.
Speaker 1 (15:08):
Yeah, why was it so traumatic for you? You think
just because it's so fucking traumatic?
Speaker 2 (15:12):
Yeah, yeah, that's it. It just took me a really
long time to get past the trauma of it, and
like the fear that you're like gonna die, but it's
actually like, no, the moment you feel like you're gonna
die means the baby's about to come out.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
I read that in an interview when I was doing
research on you. Didn't you say that till in the
labor you were like, I'm gonna want to die?
Speaker 2 (15:29):
Oh no. I turned to him and I looked at
him and I genuinely asked him, am I gonna die?
And he was like he looked to our doula and
was like eyebrows raised, No, You're not gonna die.
Speaker 3 (15:43):
I had epidurals both times, and I'm just like.
Speaker 2 (15:46):
Oh, and you had the best you had the best experience.
Speaker 1 (15:49):
Well, both our birds were the best. I loved them
so much, but I was heavily medicated.
Speaker 3 (15:53):
I love drugs.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
I think it's so impressive that people do it because
it sounds so painfull, But women have been doing it
since the beginning of time.
Speaker 2 (16:02):
I've had trauma in my past with with anesthesia. When
I was a kid, I got my consoles out when
I was like five, and ever since I had those
the anesthesia and had I had a little bit of
a complication back then, and so ever since then, I
have had night terrors throughout my life. And it's always
the same sort of thing, but it's very scary, and
(16:22):
it usually is triggered when I have a fever and
when I have some sort of drowsy medication. Yeah Vicadin
or Nike will or Diamond tap back when I was
a kid, so I was really nervous about how my
body would react to the epidural and how I would
feel like out of control of my body. And so
my doula, who wasn't my dula the second time round,
(16:44):
but she was my dula the first time. Her name
is Erica Chitty.
Speaker 3 (16:46):
She's I love her. She's been on pod, She's been
on She's been on Katie's crib.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
She's so incredible and so knowledgeable. And she stopped doing births,
but she just we asked her as a favorite used
to become a dear friend. That she trained Leslie for
my second berth to help to Basically.
Speaker 3 (17:06):
No, I know, he's not a train train duel.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
He's not a doula, but she taught him things that
he can do to help my body feel better and
all that. But she recommended that because I had such
a good experience with the labor the first time around,
because a lot of my fear comes from the unknown.
I get very nervous when I don't know what's going
to happen. And she was like, because you now have
an idea of what's going to happen and your body
(17:29):
responds so well to it, she was like, I'd recommend
you just do it the same way that you did
it the first time. And so I opted to not
do epidural with the second time around for able.
Speaker 3 (17:40):
And it was.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
Fast, right, It was very fast. Yeah. I went into
labor with Abel around like three am in the middle
of the night, and then and we headed to the
hospital around four thirty in the morning. My contraction started
picking up and then he was here by nine thirty
something in the morning.
Speaker 3 (18:00):
Did it just feel far more in your control?
Speaker 2 (18:03):
It did, And a lot of the leading up to it,
like even when I was having like deep contractions and
we were we made it to the hospital and LEZ
was helping me. I had the hypno Birthing app in
my headphones and anytime I would have a contraction, I'd
push start on it. It would guide me through.
Speaker 3 (18:18):
This breathing tell us what hypno birthing is exactly.
Speaker 2 (18:22):
Yeah. So I found this company that has just a
series of videos that teach you like a seminar on
hypno birthing, and it's called the Positive Birth Company. I
think they're based in the UK. I just bought the
series of videos where they in like a handful of hours,
they teach you how to do hypno birthing and they
teach you about your body and what your body goes
(18:44):
through during labor and hypno birthing is basically just getting
yourself into a very meditative space so that you can
just breathe through the contractions and what could potentially feel traumatic.
It really lessens the pain for you in a way.
Some people don't feel pain at all. I don't know
how that happened.
Speaker 3 (19:03):
Some people have like orgasms.
Speaker 2 (19:05):
It's I don't understand it.
Speaker 3 (19:07):
I don't that is.
Speaker 2 (19:09):
God bless them, God bless them, God bless them.
Speaker 3 (19:12):
But wows.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
Yeah, so I they have an app that they that
they you can download and you put your headphones in,
and I just anytime I get a contraction, it would breathe.
It teaches you breathe in two three four whole two
three and then the accent or whatever it is, and
(19:34):
they like, it's basically just a very meditative and it's
like this woman with a British accent and.
Speaker 1 (19:39):
She's, oh, and you did not do this the first
time around. You do this this second time.
Speaker 2 (19:43):
That's right, Yeah, And it really helped me. It really
helped me. Now, I will say Abel was a much
bigger baby the second time around. He was eight pounds
ten ounces when he came out, which we did not know.
And I was like, if I had known this baby
was that big, I would have opted for the epidural
because so it wasn't as traumatic of a labor. But
I will say giving birth to him was the hardest
(20:05):
thing I've ever done, and I do not need to
do it again after that.
Speaker 3 (20:09):
The pushing was so aggressively hard.
Speaker 2 (20:12):
The actual pushing was very intense, but I did it
and it was not Even though it was the hardest
thing that I've ever done in my entire life, I
don't feel trauma from it. I don't.
Speaker 3 (20:24):
Thank God, what a healing opportunity.
Speaker 1 (20:28):
I have a handful of friends who just had really
traumatic experiences the first time around, and they did heal
themselves through the second opportunity, Like they really just learned
a lot from the first time around and learned what
they do or don't want and set themselves up. I
feel like for like massive success to sort of heal
(20:51):
your relationship. Was your postpartum experience the same or different?
Speaker 2 (20:58):
Very different? It was so different. Yeah, I definitely had
some version of postpartum depression the first time around, for sure,
and breastfeeding, as we talked about, was so rough for
me with Lucy. The second time around, I totally took
the pressure off myself because the moment I quit breastfeeding
with my first baby, I literally felt the clouds parting.
(21:21):
I could see again.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
Was it just so much pressure you put on yourself
the first time around that I have to breastfeed, I
want to breastfeed and you was so connected to like
being a failure or something like that, and it wasn't
working out and it was just nothing but hard.
Speaker 2 (21:33):
Yeah, And it was so painful and it was so
scary and it was like, and I just had this
tiny baby, and there's also there's so much anxiety that
comes just with having a tiny human for the first
time and not knowing, like how do I care for
this person. Eventually you realize that your instincts kick in
and it's all gonna be okay. But I, yeah, it
(21:56):
was just too much the first time around. And I
stopped breastfeeding at five weeks with Lucy the first time around,
and it changed my life. I finally was on a
path to like feeling.
Speaker 3 (22:06):
Happiness, yeah, motherhood.
Speaker 2 (22:07):
Oh yeah, yeah. So the second time around, because I
knew that that was very likely to happen, I took all.
I was like, if tomorrow I decided I want to
quit breastfeeding, I will quit breastfeeding. My other child was
raised on formula and she is totally healthy and happy
and thriving. And it also allowed for other people to
help me, and so I wasn't completely sleep deprived. Abel
(22:30):
was a bigger baby and his latch was really great,
and so he did really well. He responded really well
to breastfeeding, and so I ended up breastfeeding him for
like seven and a half weeks, which went much longer
than I even expected, and yeah, it was just in general,
I had less anxiety. The second time around, I had
more appreciation for the moment. You know how fleeting this
(22:52):
newborn phase is, so I was able to really enjoy it.
And it was still a crazy ride because at the
time I was when I was four weeks postpartum. Les
was nominated for an Oscar that year and we went
to the Oscars.
Speaker 3 (23:05):
I will never forget it.
Speaker 1 (23:08):
It's like you were, like, I remember, You're changing into
some like massive dress or something like in the back
of a car with boob like milk filled boobs.
Speaker 2 (23:18):
I I because I had so much issues with breastfeeding
the first time around. I realized that pumping my breasts
didn't respond to pumping. That's how I would get clog ducts.
So I was not pumping at all, so I was
solely breastfeeding the baby. So they were so amazing, the
like Leslie's publicists and team and also the people at
(23:38):
the Oscars. We got a Mercedes.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
What's those those huge van show up with the baby,
so she breastfeed.
Speaker 2 (23:47):
My mom stayed in the van. My mom we got
a hotel that was like blocks away. My mom was
in the van with the baby, and anytime it was
time to breastfeed him, I would go in this big
sprinter van like the ones you could stay in, took
my dress off, printer I would leave during commercial break
of the oscars, take my dress off, breastfeed my child
(24:08):
in the van, put the dress back on, get my
mom to like zip me back in. And I was
also wearing three corsets underneath it, and then I'd go
back into the oscars and pictures of me. My boobs
were ginormous during that time.
Speaker 1 (24:22):
Well, you are very fortunate to have a nice rack
as it is, so I'm sure when.
Speaker 2 (24:26):
They're like so, they were massive, massive, But the wh.
Speaker 1 (24:29):
God, Nicolete, I remember seeing pictures and videos of this
and being like, if this isn't like the greatest motherhood
like shit that I've ever seen.
Speaker 3 (24:40):
It was belie un believable.
Speaker 1 (24:43):
Do you feel like you had any of the postpartum
blues or depression that you had with Lucy?
Speaker 3 (24:48):
Did that not happen at all with Abel?
Speaker 2 (24:50):
Not as much. There's still the challenges always, and motherhood
is a shock to the system, especially when you have
small babies. There's a always things that come in anxiety
and this and that, and sometimes like feeling like trapped
because your babies only want you, or sometimes you're the
only one that can care for the baby, and so
it can be very isolating. But I definitely navigated that
(25:14):
so much easier the second time around. And it was
challenging because Les had to go shoot knives out two
in Greece when when Abel was two months old.
Speaker 3 (25:23):
Oh I remember that too, didn't you guys?
Speaker 2 (25:26):
Go We went for three weeks Abel was like three
months and my mom and my sister and a family
friend we all traveled together and I took the kids.
But then I had to leave after three weeks because
my best friend was getting married and we were moving
out of our house into a new one, and so
I had to move us out of this house with
(25:46):
the three month old baby.
Speaker 1 (25:48):
Three month old Oh my god, who was jetlagged, probably from.
Speaker 2 (25:51):
All they both were, And Lucy honestly was the worst
at that time because she was like three or four.
She was four, and the jet lag made her just
an awful person.
Speaker 3 (26:03):
Yeah, god, oh my god, she's so cute. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:07):
And then I did seven weeks straight while Les was
still in Greece of doing the nights by myself because
we hadn't sleep trained able yet, and it was just
it was very challenging, but even that was more manageable
than the first time around.
Speaker 1 (26:21):
It goes to show you, like, mental health around this
whole thing is really the whole game, because you can
if you like hormonally and chemically and mentally are well
and supported, like you can get through it. Like you
can get through it. But if you are miserable, like
you're the first time with Lucy and you were having
(26:43):
such a hard time breastfeeding and things like that, were
you just sobbing uncontrollably, like for no reason, were you
Oh yeah, oh.
Speaker 2 (26:51):
Yeah, I was so sad. I remember the first time
my parents and my sister and my now brother in law,
they all came over for the first time for dinner
after Lucy was born. And it was like maybe a
week or two weeks after the baby was born. And
I'm so close with my family and my mom helps
me so much with taking care of babies, but just
(27:11):
having that many people in my house, I had so
much anxiety and I just sobbed that night, and I
cried all through dinner, and I was like, I'm okay,
I'm gonna be fine. But I just I felt so overwhelmed,
even just by my own family members who I'm so
close with being in the house with me. It was
so wild and I just did not understand.
Speaker 3 (27:32):
It's so irrational.
Speaker 1 (27:33):
I look back on some photos so via I had
November twenty second, and there I can remember New Year's Eve.
So that's six weeks later when most people if it's
postpartum blues lifts, but.
Speaker 3 (27:46):
Yeah, no, I was.
Speaker 1 (27:47):
You went through it, but oh my god, I went
down gus. But I remember New Year's Eve. My family's
over to my parents, my brother, his wife, who are
again I'm so close with them, like you guys, and
they're all over for dinner, and during dinner, I'm having
like quiet panic attacks that I'm trying to hide from everybody.
And I just excused myself at nine o'clock and literally
(28:07):
sat in my shower, like praying for the panic to stop.
And why was I feeling so overwhelmed? And I couldn't
enjoy anybody or this at all like it was. And
I'd look back at photos, I don't even look like myself,
Like I look like a shell, Like, yeah, it's so
fucked up.
Speaker 2 (28:28):
I would I had similar moments of just like going
into my bathroom and just like sitting on the floor
of my bathroom just crying and being like when am
I gonna feel okay?
Speaker 3 (28:39):
Like I like this or myself? Why is everything terrible?
Speaker 1 (28:43):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (28:43):
Why do I feel so unhappy in my life? It
was really I totally know what you're talking about. And
it can feel so completely overwhelming, And but I will
say it really does stop at a certain point, especially
if you can get that mental health help. It's what
in whatever way it is, so it feels inescapable, but true,
(29:06):
really you can escape it. There is way out.
Speaker 1 (29:11):
Did yours just lift over time with Lucy? Like you
just started to get better? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (29:15):
I mean and I even felt some of that with Able,
like with the two kids, like some of that like
unhappiness of am I going to feel happy with my
life again? Why do I? Why are there days where
I hate being a mom? Like I really I and
I love my kids more than anything, but there were
days where I was like, I don't like this, I
don't want to do this, and it just can feel overwhelming.
(29:38):
I think therapy for me was a big component. Exercise
was huge for me. The second time around.
Speaker 3 (29:46):
That's real.
Speaker 2 (29:47):
I swear to you that was my if when I
finally started setting time for myself, which it's so hard
to carve out that time and it feels almost impossible.
But when I started to set aside one day a
week where I could just work out on Zoom with
my friend, with Lauren who would train me, or whatever
way it is, doing yoga or something, it was the
(30:09):
ultimate self care for me in that moment.
Speaker 3 (30:11):
That's a huge tip for yea.
Speaker 2 (30:14):
Even just one day, even one hour out of your
entire week just helps you breathe, It helps you feel
like you're putting time for yourself, and it helps you
move your body and it really does start to lift
some It lets you have a way to get some
of that out of your body which you're carrying so much.
That was huge for me for sure.
Speaker 1 (30:35):
That's freaking massive, like totally massive. Now we have this
incredible book called I Love You More Than You'll Ever Know,
written by Leslie Odom Junior and Nicolette Robinson, illustrated by
(30:57):
Joy huang Ruiz.
Speaker 3 (31:00):
How did this caut It is amazing. The song is ridiculous.
I'm obsessed. How did this happen?
Speaker 1 (31:07):
Whose idea was it, How did you do it? Tell
me all the things.
Speaker 2 (31:11):
We've always been interested. Ever since we became parents, we've
been just navigating this world step by step, trying to
figure out how the hell to not screw up your kids,
how to do this parent thing. And as we were
doing it, we started to just realize the things that
we really loved about the children's world and what are
(31:33):
ways that we would want to contribute. Also, for a while,
we would be like, let's start a children's clothing line.
I hate the lady's clothes are made. We got to
make it easier, and that was always a dream, and
so then we were like, let's start a little simpler.
And bedtime is such a huge ritual in our household.
We always do bathtime and then we read books together,
(31:55):
and then we sing a song together, and then we
say prayer and we put the kids to bed and
picking books. There are some times, you know as a parent,
where your kid is just going to want to read
the same book over and over again, listen to the
same songs or whatever it is. And so we yeah,
we just thought it would be really special to be
able to add to people's libraries and add to our
(32:19):
own and so Les had put out a book a
couple of years a few years ago and had great publishers,
and at his book release, one of his editors was asking, so,
do you guys do you ever want to do a book?
And I was like, less and I We've always thought
about doing a children's book together. A year after that,
(32:40):
they came to us and they were like, do you
guys want to do it? Do you want? Should we
just make it happen? And we dove in. It's crazy
the children's book world. You can take two or three
years from the start. Really, yes, Wow, it's a big
long process because also the illustrator needs at least a year.
Speaker 3 (32:59):
Yeah, was someone like more the writer?
Speaker 1 (33:02):
Someone's more the like, how did you guys work together
on that? I know because when I work together all
the time on things, and we have such lanes that
we stick in, like I'm the talker and the sort
of overall vision and he's the I'm not very great
at writing. How do you guys split it up? Or
is it pretty organic? Like you're having some wine at
dinner and you're.
Speaker 3 (33:21):
Like, here's the first page. How does it work?
Speaker 2 (33:24):
We wrote this book during the pandemic. So we would
put Lucy to bed, pour ourselves glasses of wine, and
sit at our dining room table with our journals out.
And we started just by setting a timer and doing
like free rights on our own individually and trying to
figure out even what we wanted to write. And because
we both are singers and we and music is such
a big component in our lives and in our household,
(33:46):
we realized that we wanted to make whatever this book
is something that could be also a song.
Speaker 1 (33:54):
The book is a beautiful book, and all of the
words of the book are all so the lyrics to
the song that goes with it, which is I could
listen to the two of you harmonize on a song.
Speaker 3 (34:09):
Simply forever. It's insane. Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1 (34:13):
Okay, So that's a great So that was the idea.
The idea was whatever we write has to always also
be lyrics to a song.
Speaker 2 (34:19):
We just approached it as a song. We would just
each write on our own and we'd finally get something down,
and we also came up with the melody of it
before we started writing it, so we could figure it
out as a song and we would just have start
building on what we had and it was kind of
just best idea wins we would just write. Yeah, it
was really very organic. It was scary and challenging because
(34:42):
you're always like afraid to enter this new realm and
also being a writer that feels very intimidating. But it
happened really organically. It was really a lovely process.
Speaker 1 (34:53):
Would you say the process was like easy or were
you guys like tearing each other's.
Speaker 2 (34:57):
Yeh, strangely no, I think if we had done the
you know, a few years before, it would have been
a different story. But we've learned to really work well
together and it was just like very lovely. It was
a sweet thing to get to do together. And then
the process of it once we picked our illustrator and
she said yes, we just got to get drafts of
(35:17):
her stuff, which was so amazing. Oh they're so beautiful.
Speaker 1 (35:21):
So beautiful, this illustrator who's she's some CREDI wang ruise.
Speaker 2 (35:25):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (35:26):
And what's so beautiful about the book is it's obviously
there are so many different looking people in the book,
which is so incredible.
Speaker 3 (35:34):
Was that such a huge important piece here?
Speaker 2 (35:37):
That was really like the main thing that we told
Joy when she dove in to start, we recorded a
demo of the song too, Like once the book was written,
we also recorded the song. We sent it to her
and her process. She said she listened to the song
over and over again and just started to see what
images came to her mind, and she we just let
her do whatever she wanted. She did such a beautiful job,
(35:58):
like way better than we could have ever imagined. But
we are. One thing was that we wanted it to
be very inclusive. We wanted all the households and the
families and any of the children with whatever adults are
in their lives, whether it's parents or mentors or grandparents
or aunties, babysitters, any of that.
Speaker 3 (36:16):
It's really beautiful.
Speaker 1 (36:17):
There's so many different colors and ages and white and
black and with glasses and without glasses, and with it
there's different kinds of dress and really representative of lots
and two daddies and I mean, there's just so many
different people. But what I love the most is the drawings.
Like on the last page, it's so you and Leslie
(36:40):
and Lucy and Abel. What was it like when you
showed them the book for the first time.
Speaker 2 (36:44):
Oh, they loved it. They loved it. And they joy
was so sweet and added little little Easter eggs in
throughout of special things that are to them, like the
Lucy's favorite bear is they're Abel's tiger Passy. And they
just noticed there were things that were actually theirs.
Speaker 1 (37:01):
Oh my god, that's did they were?
Speaker 3 (37:04):
They like, my parents are the coolest? Or do they
not get it?
Speaker 2 (37:06):
No, no, they don't. They don't care about that, but
they love that the book was that. They loved that
they were in the book. And when we went in
to record the song, we Les and I recorded it
first and then we brought the kids in.
Speaker 3 (37:18):
Is that who is that the egg? Yeah? The kids?
That is not their voices?
Speaker 2 (37:24):
Yeah, yeah, they loved it. They even Abel was just
like who barely even was speaking at the time. He
was singing along, just whispering into them the end.
Speaker 3 (37:34):
Of the song, which I just listened to before this interview.
Speaker 1 (37:36):
Again, it's suck guys anytime you can listen to Leslie
and Nicolette sing together. They also have this most beautiful
duet on Leslie's holiday album that's a Jewish song called.
Speaker 2 (37:49):
What is it called moussor?
Speaker 1 (37:51):
Oh my goodness, your two voices together are things so gorgeous.
But this song I love you more than you'll ever
know the end kind of versus our little kids' voices,
And I was like, wow, they got professional little kids singers.
Speaker 2 (38:07):
Yeah, Lucy, and then some of our friends, Lucy's best
friend Maggie saying on it, and then Maggie's parents who
are also dear friends of ours, and then Able. Yeah,
it was just they came in one day and they
had a blast. It was so sweet.
Speaker 1 (38:19):
May have genetically also been passed down your keen talents combined,
which will make her the greatest singer on earth.
Speaker 2 (38:26):
She certainly loves it. I mean it brings her.
Speaker 1 (38:30):
To such a huge part of your household. I'm sure
you are singing all the time. This is so like,
how does it feel being an author?
Speaker 2 (38:38):
It's so cool, And you know, it's so crazy. We
made it on the New York Times bestseller list with
this book, so I know it's crazy.
Speaker 3 (38:47):
God week, you gotta here, So it's crazy.
Speaker 2 (38:51):
It's a very it's a great honor. We did not
expect that to happen at all. We were just so
grateful to release it into the world and people have
been so receptive and kind about it. But it's very cool.
It's very cool.
Speaker 3 (39:04):
My god, Nicolete, So are you going to have a third?
Speaker 2 (39:10):
No?
Speaker 3 (39:12):
Are you?
Speaker 2 (39:13):
Yeah? God?
Speaker 3 (39:15):
Oh god in hell.
Speaker 2 (39:17):
I just I'm so done. I'm so happy with what
we I feel very blessed, i feel very grateful. I'm
currently waiting for my period to arrive right now. But
it's it's just always stressful. Why is it always so stressful?
Speaker 1 (39:29):
I'm careful too, but you're still like no, You're like,
what if the fate something buried with me?
Speaker 2 (39:35):
Is like, I just really hope not, I.
Speaker 3 (39:37):
Really, And I'm too scared to get an id.
Speaker 2 (39:40):
Everyone I know that, I know, I've heard. I just
I don't love the idea of it.
Speaker 3 (39:46):
I don't either.
Speaker 1 (39:46):
And my friends I have friends who swear by them
love it greatest thing that ever happened. Yes, friends that
swear by it love it so much, never feel it,
and their periods are like down to nothing because of it,
and they love it so much. I've had a few
friends do it who said it was the most painful
experience they've ever had.
Speaker 2 (40:02):
Yeah, it's it really just depends on the person. And
I also just I hear that you can like feel.
Speaker 3 (40:07):
It while you're having sex.
Speaker 2 (40:09):
Yeah, but that's I don't know. Maybe I'm spreading rumors.
I don't know enough about it.
Speaker 1 (40:13):
I know, I think that's although I do have one
friend where she said things got freaky and she did
feel it. But I but all my other friends that
says that's fucking bullshit. They joke on her all the
time saying that is you're trying to say your sex
life is the craziest shit of all time, and that
is not true.
Speaker 3 (40:29):
You cannot feel it. I don't know.
Speaker 1 (40:31):
But and then I was like, well, Adam should just
get a asect to me, which like he's down. But
then I heard and everyone can know this, which, by
the way, if we ever have Adam Shapiro wan as
a guest again, which I really want to, I heard
a rumor that if you're someone that has like really
and again, I'm gonna spread rumors right now. I heard
if you're someone who is super sensitive balls that if
(40:53):
you get a visect to me that they will be
really sensitive for like the rest of your life. Oh man,
I don't know if any of them this is true. No,
we are not doctors on this podcast.
Speaker 3 (41:03):
People.
Speaker 2 (41:03):
I do have a friend whose husband, god of a
sectomy and they're so happy and he's wooh. But I
don't know anything about them, but I definitely love the
idea of it. I'm like, was, why don't you just
get affair?
Speaker 1 (41:14):
We've been through hell and back, like it just sucks anyway,
so we're both done. My questions for you that I asked,
was there anything on your registry for Lucy or Abel
that you couldn't have lived without.
Speaker 2 (41:29):
I loved the Duna car seat stroller. Freaking yeah you
had it that you had the Duna when we were
doing our back chasers COVID vaccine chaser crazy ladies.
Speaker 1 (41:42):
Just okay, I mean, we have to do whatever we
can do to protect our family. Oh my god, minds
our fault. We were hormonal. Yeah, the douna it's so expensive,
but yeah, it's weird. I thought it was worth every dollar.
Speaker 2 (41:56):
Especially if you travel and or if you live like
in New York, or if you go to New York
a lot or a city where you have to take
public transportation or anything like that. It's the Juna was
super super helpful. I ended up using it a lot,
just as our regular car seat.
Speaker 3 (42:11):
Me too, me too.
Speaker 2 (42:12):
Yeah, it was great. That's one having a little mini
fridge in your bedroom. That changed the game. So you
can have the formula like I didn't teach my kids
to care about temperature, like they would drink it cold
room temperature like they did not care and that was
a huge help for me.
Speaker 1 (42:32):
Interesting, so from this start, you never really warmed it
up right. Never smart. Someone told me that about wipe
warmers once. Someone was like, don't put the wipes in
the wipe warmer because then they're gonna be like always
expect the whites to be warm, and like.
Speaker 2 (42:47):
I stopped that with Abel. I didn't do with Abel.
Speaker 3 (42:50):
Poor guy.
Speaker 1 (42:52):
Do you find in your household that the first child
in the second child sort of generalizations are true that
like the first child got all the attention in the
classes and all this extra things, and you were so careful,
and then the second kid is just like I don't
even know where that person is.
Speaker 2 (43:09):
Yes, I can tell you what time Lucy was born,
and with able, I have to think twice. There's just
so many things you forget.
Speaker 1 (43:16):
Yeah, I don't remember Vera's weight, Like yeah, no, idea,
I really remember, and you probably remember he was so big.
Speaker 3 (43:24):
Finished this sentence. Parenthood is.
Speaker 2 (43:28):
Mm Parenthood is a journey. It is a journey. Honestly,
Parenthood is a blessing. Parenthood is fucking hard and yeah,
but it is a blessing. Parenthood is a blessing too.
Speaker 3 (43:51):
I agree.
Speaker 2 (43:52):
We have so much to catch up on. I need
to come so much to.
Speaker 3 (43:55):
Catch up on.
Speaker 1 (43:56):
Come over, have some wine. Seriously, thank you so much
for coming back on Katie's Crib. It is so wonderful
to catch back up to your life, to hear about
how it's going as a family of four, as a
mother of two, as a New York Times best selling author.
Oh you're listening, please check out the book I Love
(44:17):
You more Than You'll Ever Know, written by Leslie Odom
Junior and Nicolette Robinson, illustrated by Joy huang Ruiz, and
the song that goes along with it.
Speaker 2 (44:26):
You can find that on YouTube if you go to
if you type and I Love You more Than You
Ever Know You'll ever Know on YouTube. It's just for
free right up there. The song.
Speaker 1 (44:35):
Anytime anyone gets a chance to hear your two voices
independently of each other and also together, is a real
treat on the senses. Thank you for coming on Katie's
Crib again. Congratulations on your beautiful family and your beautiful
career and all of the things.
Speaker 3 (44:50):
That are going on in your life.
Speaker 1 (44:51):
I couldn't all be happening to a better person and family.
Speaker 2 (44:56):
Oh I love you.
Speaker 3 (44:57):
I love you so much.
Speaker 2 (44:59):
I love you.
Speaker 1 (45:06):
Thank you guys so much for listening to today's episode.
I want to hear from you. Let's chat questions, comments, concerns.
Speaker 3 (45:13):
Let me know.
Speaker 1 (45:14):
You can always find me at Katiescrib at Shondaland dot com.
Katie's Crib is a production of Shondaland Audio in partnership
with iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from Shondaland Audio, visit the
iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your
favorite shows.
Welcome to Katie's Crib, a production of Shondaland Audio in
partnership with iHeartRadio. What I love the most is the drawings,
Like on the last page, it's so you and Leslie
and Lucy and Abel. What was it like when you
showed them the book for the first time.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Oh, they loved it. They loved it and they joy
was so sweet and added little little Easter eggs in
throughout of special things that are to them, like the
Lucy's favorite bear is there, Abel's tiger Passy. And they
just noticed there were things that were actually theirs.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
Oh my god, that's did they were? They like, my
parents are the coolest? Or do they not get it?
Speaker 2 (00:38):
No, no, they don't. They don't care about that. But
they love that the book was that they loved that
they were in the book. And when we went in
to record the song, we les and I recorded it first,
and then we brought the kids in.
Speaker 3 (00:50):
Is that who is that the egg? Yeah? The kids?
That is not their voices? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (00:56):
Yeah, Hello, everybody, All your mom's out there today. We
have a repeat guest because I just love her so much.
And also she just wrote a book, a children's book
(01:18):
that is so special, and I was like, we got
to talk about how you did that.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
Oh.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
Also, it's not only just a book, there's a song
that goes along with it. It's a new children's book
called I Love You More Than You'll Ever Know, written
by my dear dear friends Nicolette Robinson and Leslie Odom Junior. Also,
since she last came on, she was on an episode
in season two called Milestones when we were talking about
(01:46):
a one year birthday with her daughter Lucy, and guess
what now she has a son, Able, so we have
a lot to catch up on. She and I were
pregnant during COVID together, so I feel like we're bonded
for life, and I want to talk to all about
raising two children while being in the entertainment business with
her incredibly successful self and husband. She's best known as
the first black woman to take on the leading role
(02:08):
in the Broadway show Waitress that I Got to be
there for her Broadway debut. Her husband, Leslie Odom Junior,
is best known as the original Aaron Burr and hit
musical Hamilton. Nicolette recently partnered with Leslie in this new
children's book again, it's called I Love You More than
you'll ever know.
Speaker 3 (02:26):
The two of them have a six year old daughter,
Lucille Ruby, and a two year old son, Abel.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
Finney's Nicolette Welcome Back vibt Nicolette Robinson, I have not.
It is a disgusting amount of time that has gone
by since I've seen you, and I was. I feel
forever connected to you on so many levels. A because
I got to be there for your Broadway debut performance,
(02:53):
which was.
Speaker 3 (02:54):
I know it was literal Hi. First of all, Hi,
Oh my god.
Speaker 1 (03:01):
I got to stand next to you for that debut
and I couldn't sing any of my parts because I
was so.
Speaker 3 (03:09):
For clemped crying. I literally couldn't.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
Like we have the openings up song, the first song
called opening Up, which is Nicolette doing all this stuff,
but then Dawn on one side and Natasha on the
other side. We have to do all these harmonies. Yeah, right,
I was not singing. I was just crying.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
I think we were all crying. That was such a
Oh God, that was so special. It was the That
was the best year of my entire life for sure.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
And also what was so crazy about it is that
we were making our Broadway debuts. Because I think I yeah,
like maybe a few weeks ahead. Yeah, and we both
had small children. Oh yeah, how old was Lucy at
the time?
Speaker 2 (03:50):
Lucy was like fifteen months, I feel like, and what
I'lbi was like like ninety or something.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
Yeah. Yeah, and he turned one when we were doing it.
So I started it and he was like, yeah, I
think eight or nine months, and then by the end
he was just turning a year.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
But I feel like Albe's six or seven months younger
than Lucy.
Speaker 3 (04:10):
I think, is she in kindergarten now?
Speaker 1 (04:11):
No?
Speaker 2 (04:12):
Yeah, yeah, she's in kindergarten.
Speaker 1 (04:14):
And then what was insane was so we are connected
forever A because of Broadway debuts. B because we did
Broadway with small children, which is absolutely insane. And then
we got pregnant near each other during a global pandemic.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
That was crazy. We just sinked it all up. We
just always sink our lives up and somehow.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
And now you have two, we both have two. What
how is it feeling like? How is it feeling being
a mother of two?
Speaker 2 (04:45):
I think we're finally in a So Lucy is six
and Abel is two. They both had just recently had birthdays.
I feel like I'm finally in a groove where I'm
starting like literally just started feeling like myself again, just
started getting my freedom.
Speaker 1 (05:01):
Guy, are so linked up because I feel the same
way like Vias two and a half and Albie's five
and a half almost sikes and I finallyish feel better.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
Yeah, it's insanity. It's insanity what we do, the things
that we do as mom.
Speaker 3 (05:18):
So they're in a good place.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
You guys are in a groove is able, like it's
school or some sort of preschool or there's some sort
of care involved.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
We haven nanny help. We have a lot of help actually,
because our that our mothers, both my mom and Leslie's
mom also lives in the area, so they get to
have some grandparent time and we have two people who
like in certain times, can fill in and help with
the kids. So it's which is I almost feel crazy
(05:46):
saying that because I know that's such a blessing, but
it's literally been the only way that les and I
can both be traveling at the same time for work.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
And you guys work a ton a ton, yeah, and
you both work out of town a ton yeah, yeah,
and it is a lot to manage. Have you done
any trips or jobs where you've taken them both, or
is it better and easier for you to just stay
at home and your mother. What's so cool about your
family unit and family bond is that your mother is
(06:15):
so involved, your dad's involved, and Leslie's parents are so involved, waitress,
your mom was like living with us, Yeah, living with
us and.
Speaker 3 (06:22):
Taking care over.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (06:23):
So have you taken them to any jobs or have
you just or or do they always stay home?
Speaker 2 (06:28):
I mean we're still kind of navigating that and figuring
it out. And I literally just started working again this
past year, not even past year, It's been like not
even six months. I just shot three movies back to
back and it was the most the biggest blessing, and
I find it and that's part of why I feel
a little bit more like myself again, because I'm actually
doing the stuff that I've been just craving and meeting
(06:50):
and that I love. Yeah, but that just started in
October September, October of last of this past year. We're
still figuring all that stuff out. But I know that
I would not have been able to do it without
the support system that we have. And you know how
hard it is to find nanny's that you trust and
you love, and it's been a process and we finally
(07:12):
feel like we found the best team around us and
the best system. It's massive. It's really the only way
that I think that's partially why the jobs came my way,
because I finally held the space for letting that in,
because I was so afraid of leaving the kids and
having to go and be busy and not be able
(07:33):
to like hold it down. A lot of the times
I'll go and just come back my stuff hasn't quite
been long enough. Like the longest one. The longest amount
of time I've been away was three and a half
weeks for one of the films I shot.
Speaker 1 (07:45):
How was that I had? Yet I am so terrified.
Do you see like really sensitive about it?
Speaker 3 (07:51):
Or is she like pretty? I feel like it depends
on the kid.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
Like, yeah, my daughter right now, VIA's like okay by mommy,
and my son is like he counted the sub nights
I was away and then he uses it for weeks
up like then if I have to miss in bedtime
or something, he'll be.
Speaker 3 (08:06):
Like, but you were just gone for seven nights.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
But I, oh my god, I wonder honestly, if it's
boy girl thing because Lucy is totally she misses me,
but she's for sure a daddy's girl, and so she
honestly misses Les Moore when he's gone, and I think.
Speaker 3 (08:23):
She misses me, but she I was like that growing up.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
Yeah, yeah, and then Able he is completely a mama's boy.
This is his tears that's on my sweatshirt right now.
Speaker 3 (08:36):
Saying dark mark on a sweatshirt.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
I was like, oh, I think you have something or
maybe it is a cool sweatshirts.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
That refuse to go away. I don't know why it
hasn't dried or what, but I just have his tear
marks from when I just came into the back house
to do this podcast.
Speaker 3 (08:50):
He doesn't want me Barnacle.
Speaker 2 (08:52):
Oh yeah, he's mama. You're just a sweet guy.
Speaker 3 (08:56):
Tell me.
Speaker 1 (08:56):
Also, Okay, so you finally feel like you're in a groove.
You're looking you have a support system.
Speaker 3 (09:01):
You left them.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
Lucy deals well with it. Ables struggling, but he'll get
on board. Yeah, can you tell me.
Speaker 3 (09:08):
I know you had a really rough fur.
Speaker 1 (09:11):
I remember this vaguely, like your labor with Lucy was
unmedicated and it was a breastfeeding.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
Road that was really tough.
Speaker 1 (09:22):
Yes, And I'm curious how Able's birth and his the
postpartum experience. Was it vastly different? Did you rectify things
that you didn't like the first time around? Talk to
me about the two different experiences.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
Yeah, I think you remember Also that, like, my pregnancy
with Lucy was really challenging because Les was shooting a
movie in Europe for most of the time and he
was like in and out of town constantly, and so
I had a huge percentage of my pregnancy the first
pregnancy by myself, and emotionally it was. It was so hard.
(10:00):
I only feel like I'm at a place where I've
moved past it, but it's still is this close to
the surface that if I talk too much about it,
I could start crying. Yeah, And it was a tough
time in our marriage. Honestly, we really went through it,
and that was probably one of the hardest times in
our marriage.
Speaker 3 (10:15):
And you guys have been together a long time.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
Yeah, fifteen years now, this summer is how long? And
we just celebrated our ten year wedding anniversary in December.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
Crazy, it's crazy.
Speaker 1 (10:26):
Yeah, So you have ups and downs, and you being
alone for your first pregnancy and just feeling. I don't
want to say the word abandoned, because it's not like
he did it on purpose. He booked a great opportunities,
but that's hard, and.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
We were navigating it for the first time. We really
didn't know what to expect, and he also was going
through his own sort of crisis of becoming a dad
for the first time. And I was just like going
through all these milestones going to doctor's appointments by myself,
and which is now super normal for everybody because we've
all dealt with the pandemic, but I know that was
a really hard thing for a lot of people to
go through, to just go to doctor's appointments by themselves.
(11:01):
And then I'd feel the feel her kicking and moving
for the first time, and I'd just be in bed
by myself. Oh, that was suck. It was awful. It
was so awful. The second time around, we did this
during the pandemic, and we were just together more than
we have ever been in our entire relationship, except for
maybe the beginning of our relationship when we were both
(11:24):
unemployed actors, just in our West Hollywood tiny apartment, and
so that was such a beautiful healing experience. Because we
just got to be together for so much of it
as a family, and so starting with that, and then
also I worked out through most of my pregnancy, which
really helped me feel better in my body for the
(11:44):
second time, which I didn't do with Lucy. And then
also the song was that.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
For specific reasons like it didn't feel good or you
were just not Oh maybe you were just sad, like
you were depressed about him being not there and you
just didn't have the energy to I think so.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
And I think also I wasn't working out like regularly
in my even before before pregnancy. Yeah, it wasn't really
a part of my just like everyday life. And if
I was doing a theater thing at the time or
training for something, or if we were like we're gonna
do P ninety X together, we would do stuff like that.
Speaker 3 (12:15):
You remember that I haven't heard of P ninety X.
Everybody was.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
I mean that I think I don't know, but I
feel like it's still something you could look up on YouTube. Honestly,
I loved it and I've been thinking about it.
Speaker 3 (12:37):
Ninety X. I haven't heard that in I want to
say nine ers.
Speaker 1 (12:41):
Now, there's just like a million, a million ways to
work out the first one it really was.
Speaker 2 (12:46):
It really was. And there was like one other one.
I can't remember the name of it, but yeah, that
is the funniest I ever heard.
Speaker 1 (13:05):
So your second pregnancy, you were active, which probably help.
Speaker 2 (13:08):
It helped so much. I didn't want the bounce back
to be so awful. I mean, the first time the
bounce back was it was it just felt impossible. It
still happened. We still do it, and your body goes
back in its own time, even if whether you're exercising
or not. But I just didn't want it to feel
like torture, and so keeping active really helped my body
(13:29):
feel better.
Speaker 1 (13:30):
You're also such a mover, like as a person like
you and Leslie like you're just like because you're such.
Speaker 3 (13:35):
A performer and like a whole body performer.
Speaker 1 (13:37):
I'm sure it must have felt really weird for you
to like be stagnant with your first pregnancy and then
try to get back because you like dance and sing
and act and do all these things.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
And then your body just changes and you don't know
what the hell is going on. And Lauren Wiseman who
Wiseman Sacks, I always say her maide a name, but
she's the most amazing. She has this program, this company
called Mama Method, and she's just basically like my personal trainer.
She just does pilates and yoga and bar with me
and she's one of my best friends.
Speaker 3 (14:08):
I don't know her. The Mama Method it's like workout
for pregnancy.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
For Mama's basically, I mean, because she still trains me
now and she's gotten me in some of the best
shape I've ever been in my life. Aside from when
I did p ninety X, I.
Speaker 3 (14:24):
Had to look her up.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
I also did hypno birthing.
Speaker 1 (14:29):
Yes, I want to hear this about So you did
hypno birthing with Abel, not with Lucy?
Speaker 3 (14:35):
What brought on that decision?
Speaker 2 (14:37):
So I had, as many people do. I had a
lot of trauma after the first labor with Lucy. It
just it just scared me. I don't know, I just
it's an intense thing that we go through.
Speaker 3 (14:49):
And you had no epidural with her, right.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
No epidural?
Speaker 3 (14:52):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (14:52):
What the that's crazy. But it was also a pretty
fast labor. I feel like it was like, I don't know,
six hours total or something. So it was very fast
and furious, and medically it was a very safe, very
like really textbook text books like birth.
Speaker 1 (15:08):
Yeah, why was it so traumatic for you? You think
just because it's so fucking traumatic?
Speaker 2 (15:12):
Yeah, yeah, that's it. It just took me a really
long time to get past the trauma of it, and
like the fear that you're like gonna die, but it's
actually like, no, the moment you feel like you're gonna
die means the baby's about to come out.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
I read that in an interview when I was doing
research on you. Didn't you say that till in the
labor you were like, I'm gonna want to die?
Speaker 2 (15:29):
Oh no. I turned to him and I looked at
him and I genuinely asked him, am I gonna die?
And he was like he looked to our doula and
was like eyebrows raised, No, You're not gonna die.
Speaker 3 (15:43):
I had epidurals both times, and I'm just like.
Speaker 2 (15:46):
Oh, and you had the best you had the best experience.
Speaker 1 (15:49):
Well, both our birds were the best. I loved them
so much, but I was heavily medicated.
Speaker 3 (15:53):
I love drugs.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
I think it's so impressive that people do it because
it sounds so painfull, But women have been doing it
since the beginning of time.
Speaker 2 (16:02):
I've had trauma in my past with with anesthesia. When
I was a kid, I got my consoles out when
I was like five, and ever since I had those
the anesthesia and had I had a little bit of
a complication back then, and so ever since then, I
have had night terrors throughout my life. And it's always
the same sort of thing, but it's very scary, and
(16:22):
it usually is triggered when I have a fever and
when I have some sort of drowsy medication. Yeah Vicadin
or Nike will or Diamond tap back when I was
a kid, so I was really nervous about how my
body would react to the epidural and how I would
feel like out of control of my body. And so
my doula, who wasn't my dula the second time round,
(16:44):
but she was my dula the first time. Her name
is Erica Chitty.
Speaker 3 (16:46):
She's I love her. She's been on pod, She's been
on She's been on Katie's crib.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
She's so incredible and so knowledgeable. And she stopped doing births,
but she just we asked her as a favorite used
to become a dear friend. That she trained Leslie for
my second berth to help to Basically.
Speaker 3 (17:06):
No, I know, he's not a train train duel.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
He's not a doula, but she taught him things that
he can do to help my body feel better and
all that. But she recommended that because I had such
a good experience with the labor the first time around,
because a lot of my fear comes from the unknown.
I get very nervous when I don't know what's going
to happen. And she was like, because you now have
an idea of what's going to happen and your body
(17:29):
responds so well to it, she was like, I'd recommend
you just do it the same way that you did
it the first time. And so I opted to not
do epidural with the second time around for able.
Speaker 3 (17:40):
And it was.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
Fast, right, It was very fast. Yeah. I went into
labor with Abel around like three am in the middle
of the night, and then and we headed to the
hospital around four thirty in the morning. My contraction started
picking up and then he was here by nine thirty
something in the morning.
Speaker 3 (18:00):
Did it just feel far more in your control?
Speaker 2 (18:03):
It did, And a lot of the leading up to it,
like even when I was having like deep contractions and
we were we made it to the hospital and LEZ
was helping me. I had the hypno Birthing app in
my headphones and anytime I would have a contraction, I'd
push start on it. It would guide me through.
Speaker 3 (18:18):
This breathing tell us what hypno birthing is exactly.
Speaker 2 (18:22):
Yeah. So I found this company that has just a
series of videos that teach you like a seminar on
hypno birthing, and it's called the Positive Birth Company. I
think they're based in the UK. I just bought the
series of videos where they in like a handful of hours,
they teach you how to do hypno birthing and they
teach you about your body and what your body goes
(18:44):
through during labor and hypno birthing is basically just getting
yourself into a very meditative space so that you can
just breathe through the contractions and what could potentially feel traumatic.
It really lessens the pain for you in a way.
Some people don't feel pain at all. I don't know
how that happened.
Speaker 3 (19:03):
Some people have like orgasms.
Speaker 2 (19:05):
It's I don't understand it.
Speaker 3 (19:07):
I don't that is.
Speaker 2 (19:09):
God bless them, God bless them, God bless them.
Speaker 3 (19:12):
But wows.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
Yeah, so I they have an app that they that
they you can download and you put your headphones in,
and I just anytime I get a contraction, it would breathe.
It teaches you breathe in two three four whole two
three and then the accent or whatever it is, and
(19:34):
they like, it's basically just a very meditative and it's
like this woman with a British accent and.
Speaker 1 (19:39):
She's, oh, and you did not do this the first
time around. You do this this second time.
Speaker 2 (19:43):
That's right, Yeah, And it really helped me. It really
helped me. Now, I will say Abel was a much
bigger baby the second time around. He was eight pounds
ten ounces when he came out, which we did not know.
And I was like, if I had known this baby
was that big, I would have opted for the epidural
because so it wasn't as traumatic of a labor. But
I will say giving birth to him was the hardest
(20:05):
thing I've ever done, and I do not need to
do it again after that.
Speaker 3 (20:09):
The pushing was so aggressively hard.
Speaker 2 (20:12):
The actual pushing was very intense, but I did it
and it was not Even though it was the hardest
thing that I've ever done in my entire life, I
don't feel trauma from it. I don't.
Speaker 3 (20:24):
Thank God, what a healing opportunity.
Speaker 1 (20:28):
I have a handful of friends who just had really
traumatic experiences the first time around, and they did heal
themselves through the second opportunity, Like they really just learned
a lot from the first time around and learned what
they do or don't want and set themselves up. I
feel like for like massive success to sort of heal
(20:51):
your relationship. Was your postpartum experience the same or different?
Speaker 2 (20:58):
Very different? It was so different. Yeah, I definitely had
some version of postpartum depression the first time around, for sure,
and breastfeeding, as we talked about, was so rough for
me with Lucy. The second time around, I totally took
the pressure off myself because the moment I quit breastfeeding
with my first baby, I literally felt the clouds parting.
(21:21):
I could see again.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
Was it just so much pressure you put on yourself
the first time around that I have to breastfeed, I
want to breastfeed and you was so connected to like
being a failure or something like that, and it wasn't
working out and it was just nothing but hard.
Speaker 2 (21:33):
Yeah, And it was so painful and it was so
scary and it was like, and I just had this
tiny baby, and there's also there's so much anxiety that
comes just with having a tiny human for the first
time and not knowing, like how do I care for
this person. Eventually you realize that your instincts kick in
and it's all gonna be okay. But I, yeah, it
(21:56):
was just too much the first time around. And I
stopped breastfeeding at five weeks with Lucy the first time around,
and it changed my life. I finally was on a
path to like feeling.
Speaker 3 (22:06):
Happiness, yeah, motherhood.
Speaker 2 (22:07):
Oh yeah, yeah. So the second time around, because I
knew that that was very likely to happen, I took all.
I was like, if tomorrow I decided I want to
quit breastfeeding, I will quit breastfeeding. My other child was
raised on formula and she is totally healthy and happy
and thriving. And it also allowed for other people to
help me, and so I wasn't completely sleep deprived. Abel
(22:30):
was a bigger baby and his latch was really great,
and so he did really well. He responded really well
to breastfeeding, and so I ended up breastfeeding him for
like seven and a half weeks, which went much longer
than I even expected, and yeah, it was just in general,
I had less anxiety. The second time around, I had
more appreciation for the moment. You know how fleeting this
(22:52):
newborn phase is, so I was able to really enjoy it.
And it was still a crazy ride because at the
time I was when I was four weeks postpartum. Les
was nominated for an Oscar that year and we went
to the Oscars.
Speaker 3 (23:05):
I will never forget it.
Speaker 1 (23:08):
It's like you were, like, I remember, You're changing into
some like massive dress or something like in the back
of a car with boob like milk filled boobs.
Speaker 2 (23:18):
I I because I had so much issues with breastfeeding
the first time around. I realized that pumping my breasts
didn't respond to pumping. That's how I would get clog ducts.
So I was not pumping at all, so I was
solely breastfeeding the baby. So they were so amazing, the
like Leslie's publicists and team and also the people at
(23:38):
the Oscars. We got a Mercedes.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
What's those those huge van show up with the baby,
so she breastfeed.
Speaker 2 (23:47):
My mom stayed in the van. My mom we got
a hotel that was like blocks away. My mom was
in the van with the baby, and anytime it was
time to breastfeed him, I would go in this big
sprinter van like the ones you could stay in, took
my dress off, printer I would leave during commercial break
of the oscars, take my dress off, breastfeed my child
(24:08):
in the van, put the dress back on, get my
mom to like zip me back in. And I was
also wearing three corsets underneath it, and then I'd go
back into the oscars and pictures of me. My boobs
were ginormous during that time.
Speaker 1 (24:22):
Well, you are very fortunate to have a nice rack
as it is, so I'm sure when.
Speaker 2 (24:26):
They're like so, they were massive, massive, But the wh.
Speaker 1 (24:29):
God, Nicolete, I remember seeing pictures and videos of this
and being like, if this isn't like the greatest motherhood
like shit that I've ever seen.
Speaker 3 (24:40):
It was belie un believable.
Speaker 1 (24:43):
Do you feel like you had any of the postpartum
blues or depression that you had with Lucy?
Speaker 3 (24:48):
Did that not happen at all with Abel?
Speaker 2 (24:50):
Not as much. There's still the challenges always, and motherhood
is a shock to the system, especially when you have
small babies. There's a always things that come in anxiety
and this and that, and sometimes like feeling like trapped
because your babies only want you, or sometimes you're the
only one that can care for the baby, and so
it can be very isolating. But I definitely navigated that
(25:14):
so much easier the second time around. And it was
challenging because Les had to go shoot knives out two
in Greece when when Abel was two months old.
Speaker 3 (25:23):
Oh I remember that too, didn't you guys?
Speaker 2 (25:26):
Go We went for three weeks Abel was like three
months and my mom and my sister and a family
friend we all traveled together and I took the kids.
But then I had to leave after three weeks because
my best friend was getting married and we were moving
out of our house into a new one, and so
I had to move us out of this house with
(25:46):
the three month old baby.
Speaker 1 (25:48):
Three month old Oh my god, who was jetlagged, probably from.
Speaker 2 (25:51):
All they both were, And Lucy honestly was the worst
at that time because she was like three or four.
She was four, and the jet lag made her just
an awful person.
Speaker 3 (26:03):
Yeah, god, oh my god, she's so cute. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:07):
And then I did seven weeks straight while Les was
still in Greece of doing the nights by myself because
we hadn't sleep trained able yet, and it was just
it was very challenging, but even that was more manageable
than the first time around.
Speaker 1 (26:21):
It goes to show you, like, mental health around this
whole thing is really the whole game, because you can
if you like hormonally and chemically and mentally are well
and supported, like you can get through it. Like you
can get through it. But if you are miserable, like
you're the first time with Lucy and you were having
(26:43):
such a hard time breastfeeding and things like that, were
you just sobbing uncontrollably, like for no reason, were you
Oh yeah, oh.
Speaker 2 (26:51):
Yeah, I was so sad. I remember the first time
my parents and my sister and my now brother in law,
they all came over for the first time for dinner
after Lucy was born. And it was like maybe a
week or two weeks after the baby was born. And
I'm so close with my family and my mom helps
me so much with taking care of babies, but just
(27:11):
having that many people in my house, I had so
much anxiety and I just sobbed that night, and I
cried all through dinner, and I was like, I'm okay,
I'm gonna be fine. But I just I felt so overwhelmed,
even just by my own family members who I'm so
close with being in the house with me. It was
so wild and I just did not understand.
Speaker 3 (27:32):
It's so irrational.
Speaker 1 (27:33):
I look back on some photos so via I had
November twenty second, and there I can remember New Year's Eve.
So that's six weeks later when most people if it's
postpartum blues lifts, but.
Speaker 3 (27:46):
Yeah, no, I was.
Speaker 1 (27:47):
You went through it, but oh my god, I went
down gus. But I remember New Year's Eve. My family's
over to my parents, my brother, his wife, who are
again I'm so close with them, like you guys, and
they're all over for dinner, and during dinner, I'm having
like quiet panic attacks that I'm trying to hide from everybody.
And I just excused myself at nine o'clock and literally
(28:07):
sat in my shower, like praying for the panic to stop.
And why was I feeling so overwhelmed? And I couldn't
enjoy anybody or this at all like it was. And
I'd look back at photos, I don't even look like myself,
Like I look like a shell, Like, yeah, it's so
fucked up.
Speaker 2 (28:28):
I would I had similar moments of just like going
into my bathroom and just like sitting on the floor
of my bathroom just crying and being like when am
I gonna feel okay?
Speaker 3 (28:39):
Like I like this or myself? Why is everything terrible?
Speaker 1 (28:43):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (28:43):
Why do I feel so unhappy in my life? It
was really I totally know what you're talking about. And
it can feel so completely overwhelming, And but I will
say it really does stop at a certain point, especially
if you can get that mental health help. It's what
in whatever way it is, so it feels inescapable, but true,
(29:06):
really you can escape it. There is way out.
Speaker 1 (29:11):
Did yours just lift over time with Lucy? Like you
just started to get better? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (29:15):
I mean and I even felt some of that with Able,
like with the two kids, like some of that like
unhappiness of am I going to feel happy with my
life again? Why do I? Why are there days where
I hate being a mom? Like I really I and
I love my kids more than anything, but there were
days where I was like, I don't like this, I
don't want to do this, and it just can feel overwhelming.
(29:38):
I think therapy for me was a big component. Exercise
was huge for me. The second time around.
Speaker 3 (29:46):
That's real.
Speaker 2 (29:47):
I swear to you that was my if when I
finally started setting time for myself, which it's so hard
to carve out that time and it feels almost impossible.
But when I started to set aside one day a
week where I could just work out on Zoom with
my friend, with Lauren who would train me, or whatever
way it is, doing yoga or something, it was the
(30:09):
ultimate self care for me in that moment.
Speaker 3 (30:11):
That's a huge tip for yea.
Speaker 2 (30:14):
Even just one day, even one hour out of your
entire week just helps you breathe, It helps you feel
like you're putting time for yourself, and it helps you
move your body and it really does start to lift
some It lets you have a way to get some
of that out of your body which you're carrying so much.
That was huge for me for sure.
Speaker 1 (30:35):
That's freaking massive, like totally massive. Now we have this
incredible book called I Love You More Than You'll Ever Know,
written by Leslie Odom Junior and Nicolette Robinson, illustrated by
(30:57):
Joy huang Ruiz.
Speaker 3 (31:00):
How did this caut It is amazing. The song is ridiculous.
I'm obsessed. How did this happen?
Speaker 1 (31:07):
Whose idea was it, How did you do it? Tell
me all the things.
Speaker 2 (31:11):
We've always been interested. Ever since we became parents, we've
been just navigating this world step by step, trying to
figure out how the hell to not screw up your kids,
how to do this parent thing. And as we were
doing it, we started to just realize the things that
we really loved about the children's world and what are
(31:33):
ways that we would want to contribute. Also, for a while,
we would be like, let's start a children's clothing line.
I hate the lady's clothes are made. We got to
make it easier, and that was always a dream, and
so then we were like, let's start a little simpler.
And bedtime is such a huge ritual in our household.
We always do bathtime and then we read books together,
(31:55):
and then we sing a song together, and then we
say prayer and we put the kids to bed and
picking books. There are some times, you know as a parent,
where your kid is just going to want to read
the same book over and over again, listen to the
same songs or whatever it is. And so we yeah,
we just thought it would be really special to be
able to add to people's libraries and add to our
(32:19):
own and so Les had put out a book a
couple of years a few years ago and had great publishers,
and at his book release, one of his editors was asking, so,
do you guys do you ever want to do a book?
And I was like, less and I We've always thought
about doing a children's book together. A year after that,
(32:40):
they came to us and they were like, do you
guys want to do it? Do you want? Should we
just make it happen? And we dove in. It's crazy
the children's book world. You can take two or three
years from the start. Really, yes, Wow, it's a big
long process because also the illustrator needs at least a year.
Speaker 3 (32:59):
Yeah, was someone like more the writer?
Speaker 1 (33:02):
Someone's more the like, how did you guys work together
on that? I know because when I work together all
the time on things, and we have such lanes that
we stick in, like I'm the talker and the sort
of overall vision and he's the I'm not very great
at writing. How do you guys split it up? Or
is it pretty organic? Like you're having some wine at
dinner and you're.
Speaker 3 (33:21):
Like, here's the first page. How does it work?
Speaker 2 (33:24):
We wrote this book during the pandemic. So we would
put Lucy to bed, pour ourselves glasses of wine, and
sit at our dining room table with our journals out.
And we started just by setting a timer and doing
like free rights on our own individually and trying to
figure out even what we wanted to write. And because
we both are singers and we and music is such
a big component in our lives and in our household,
(33:46):
we realized that we wanted to make whatever this book
is something that could be also a song.
Speaker 1 (33:54):
The book is a beautiful book, and all of the
words of the book are all so the lyrics to
the song that goes with it, which is I could
listen to the two of you harmonize on a song.
Speaker 3 (34:09):
Simply forever. It's insane. Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1 (34:13):
Okay, So that's a great So that was the idea.
The idea was whatever we write has to always also
be lyrics to a song.
Speaker 2 (34:19):
We just approached it as a song. We would just
each write on our own and we'd finally get something down,
and we also came up with the melody of it
before we started writing it, so we could figure it
out as a song and we would just have start
building on what we had and it was kind of
just best idea wins we would just write. Yeah, it
was really very organic. It was scary and challenging because
(34:42):
you're always like afraid to enter this new realm and
also being a writer that feels very intimidating. But it
happened really organically. It was really a lovely process.
Speaker 1 (34:53):
Would you say the process was like easy or were
you guys like tearing each other's.
Speaker 2 (34:57):
Yeh, strangely no, I think if we had done the
you know, a few years before, it would have been
a different story. But we've learned to really work well
together and it was just like very lovely. It was
a sweet thing to get to do together. And then
the process of it once we picked our illustrator and
she said yes, we just got to get drafts of
(35:17):
her stuff, which was so amazing. Oh they're so beautiful.
Speaker 1 (35:21):
So beautiful, this illustrator who's she's some CREDI wang ruise.
Speaker 2 (35:25):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (35:26):
And what's so beautiful about the book is it's obviously
there are so many different looking people in the book,
which is so incredible.
Speaker 3 (35:34):
Was that such a huge important piece here?
Speaker 2 (35:37):
That was really like the main thing that we told
Joy when she dove in to start, we recorded a
demo of the song too, Like once the book was written,
we also recorded the song. We sent it to her
and her process. She said she listened to the song
over and over again and just started to see what
images came to her mind, and she we just let
her do whatever she wanted. She did such a beautiful job,
(35:58):
like way better than we could have ever imagined. But
we are. One thing was that we wanted it to
be very inclusive. We wanted all the households and the
families and any of the children with whatever adults are
in their lives, whether it's parents or mentors or grandparents
or aunties, babysitters, any of that.
Speaker 3 (36:16):
It's really beautiful.
Speaker 1 (36:17):
There's so many different colors and ages and white and
black and with glasses and without glasses, and with it
there's different kinds of dress and really representative of lots
and two daddies and I mean, there's just so many
different people. But what I love the most is the drawings.
Like on the last page, it's so you and Leslie
(36:40):
and Lucy and Abel. What was it like when you
showed them the book for the first time.
Speaker 2 (36:44):
Oh, they loved it. They loved it. And they joy
was so sweet and added little little Easter eggs in
throughout of special things that are to them, like the
Lucy's favorite bear is they're Abel's tiger Passy. And they
just noticed there were things that were actually theirs.
Speaker 1 (37:01):
Oh my god, that's did they were?
Speaker 3 (37:04):
They like, my parents are the coolest? Or do they
not get it?
Speaker 2 (37:06):
No, no, they don't. They don't care about that, but
they love that the book was that. They loved that
they were in the book. And when we went in
to record the song, we Les and I recorded it
first and then we brought the kids in.
Speaker 3 (37:18):
Is that who is that the egg? Yeah? The kids?
That is not their voices?
Speaker 2 (37:24):
Yeah, yeah, they loved it. They even Abel was just
like who barely even was speaking at the time. He
was singing along, just whispering into them the end.
Speaker 3 (37:34):
Of the song, which I just listened to before this interview.
Speaker 1 (37:36):
Again, it's suck guys anytime you can listen to Leslie
and Nicolette sing together. They also have this most beautiful
duet on Leslie's holiday album that's a Jewish song called.
Speaker 2 (37:49):
What is it called moussor?
Speaker 1 (37:51):
Oh my goodness, your two voices together are things so gorgeous.
But this song I love you more than you'll ever
know the end kind of versus our little kids' voices,
And I was like, wow, they got professional little kids singers.
Speaker 2 (38:07):
Yeah, Lucy, and then some of our friends, Lucy's best
friend Maggie saying on it, and then Maggie's parents who
are also dear friends of ours, and then Able. Yeah,
it was just they came in one day and they
had a blast. It was so sweet.
Speaker 1 (38:19):
May have genetically also been passed down your keen talents combined,
which will make her the greatest singer on earth.
Speaker 2 (38:26):
She certainly loves it. I mean it brings her.
Speaker 1 (38:30):
To such a huge part of your household. I'm sure
you are singing all the time. This is so like,
how does it feel being an author?
Speaker 2 (38:38):
It's so cool, And you know, it's so crazy. We
made it on the New York Times bestseller list with
this book, so I know it's crazy.
Speaker 3 (38:47):
God week, you gotta here, So it's crazy.
Speaker 2 (38:51):
It's a very it's a great honor. We did not
expect that to happen at all. We were just so
grateful to release it into the world and people have
been so receptive and kind about it. But it's very cool.
It's very cool.
Speaker 3 (39:04):
My god, Nicolete, So are you going to have a third?
Speaker 2 (39:10):
No?
Speaker 3 (39:12):
Are you?
Speaker 2 (39:13):
Yeah? God?
Speaker 3 (39:15):
Oh god in hell.
Speaker 2 (39:17):
I just I'm so done. I'm so happy with what
we I feel very blessed, i feel very grateful. I'm
currently waiting for my period to arrive right now. But
it's it's just always stressful. Why is it always so stressful?
Speaker 1 (39:29):
I'm careful too, but you're still like no, You're like,
what if the fate something buried with me?
Speaker 2 (39:35):
Is like, I just really hope not, I.
Speaker 3 (39:37):
Really, And I'm too scared to get an id.
Speaker 2 (39:40):
Everyone I know that, I know, I've heard. I just
I don't love the idea of it.
Speaker 3 (39:46):
I don't either.
Speaker 1 (39:46):
And my friends I have friends who swear by them
love it greatest thing that ever happened. Yes, friends that
swear by it love it so much, never feel it,
and their periods are like down to nothing because of it,
and they love it so much. I've had a few
friends do it who said it was the most painful
experience they've ever had.
Speaker 2 (40:02):
Yeah, it's it really just depends on the person. And
I also just I hear that you can like feel.
Speaker 3 (40:07):
It while you're having sex.
Speaker 2 (40:09):
Yeah, but that's I don't know. Maybe I'm spreading rumors.
I don't know enough about it.
Speaker 1 (40:13):
I know, I think that's although I do have one
friend where she said things got freaky and she did
feel it. But I but all my other friends that
says that's fucking bullshit. They joke on her all the
time saying that is you're trying to say your sex
life is the craziest shit of all time, and that
is not true.
Speaker 3 (40:29):
You cannot feel it. I don't know.
Speaker 1 (40:31):
But and then I was like, well, Adam should just
get a asect to me, which like he's down. But
then I heard and everyone can know this, which, by
the way, if we ever have Adam Shapiro wan as
a guest again, which I really want to, I heard
a rumor that if you're someone that has like really
and again, I'm gonna spread rumors right now. I heard
if you're someone who is super sensitive balls that if
(40:53):
you get a visect to me that they will be
really sensitive for like the rest of your life. Oh man,
I don't know if any of them this is true. No,
we are not doctors on this podcast.
Speaker 3 (41:03):
People.
Speaker 2 (41:03):
I do have a friend whose husband, god of a
sectomy and they're so happy and he's wooh. But I
don't know anything about them, but I definitely love the
idea of it. I'm like, was, why don't you just
get affair?
Speaker 1 (41:14):
We've been through hell and back, like it just sucks anyway,
so we're both done. My questions for you that I asked,
was there anything on your registry for Lucy or Abel
that you couldn't have lived without.
Speaker 2 (41:29):
I loved the Duna car seat stroller. Freaking yeah you
had it that you had the Duna when we were
doing our back chasers COVID vaccine chaser crazy ladies.
Speaker 1 (41:42):
Just okay, I mean, we have to do whatever we
can do to protect our family. Oh my god, minds
our fault. We were hormonal. Yeah, the douna it's so expensive,
but yeah, it's weird. I thought it was worth every dollar.
Speaker 2 (41:56):
Especially if you travel and or if you live like
in New York, or if you go to New York
a lot or a city where you have to take
public transportation or anything like that. It's the Juna was
super super helpful. I ended up using it a lot,
just as our regular car seat.
Speaker 3 (42:11):
Me too, me too.
Speaker 2 (42:12):
Yeah, it was great. That's one having a little mini
fridge in your bedroom. That changed the game. So you
can have the formula like I didn't teach my kids
to care about temperature, like they would drink it cold
room temperature like they did not care and that was
a huge help for me.
Speaker 1 (42:32):
Interesting, so from this start, you never really warmed it
up right. Never smart. Someone told me that about wipe
warmers once. Someone was like, don't put the wipes in
the wipe warmer because then they're gonna be like always
expect the whites to be warm, and like.
Speaker 2 (42:47):
I stopped that with Abel. I didn't do with Abel.
Speaker 3 (42:50):
Poor guy.
Speaker 1 (42:52):
Do you find in your household that the first child
in the second child sort of generalizations are true that
like the first child got all the attention in the
classes and all this extra things, and you were so careful,
and then the second kid is just like I don't
even know where that person is.
Speaker 2 (43:09):
Yes, I can tell you what time Lucy was born,
and with able, I have to think twice. There's just
so many things you forget.
Speaker 1 (43:16):
Yeah, I don't remember Vera's weight, Like yeah, no, idea,
I really remember, and you probably remember he was so big.
Speaker 3 (43:24):
Finished this sentence. Parenthood is.
Speaker 2 (43:28):
Mm Parenthood is a journey. It is a journey. Honestly,
Parenthood is a blessing. Parenthood is fucking hard and yeah,
but it is a blessing. Parenthood is a blessing too.
Speaker 3 (43:51):
I agree.
Speaker 2 (43:52):
We have so much to catch up on. I need
to come so much to.
Speaker 3 (43:55):
Catch up on.
Speaker 1 (43:56):
Come over, have some wine. Seriously, thank you so much
for coming back on Katie's Crib. It is so wonderful
to catch back up to your life, to hear about
how it's going as a family of four, as a
mother of two, as a New York Times best selling author.
Oh you're listening, please check out the book I Love
(44:17):
You more Than You'll Ever Know, written by Leslie Odom
Junior and Nicolette Robinson, illustrated by Joy huang Ruiz, and
the song that goes along with it.
Speaker 2 (44:26):
You can find that on YouTube if you go to
if you type and I Love You more Than You
Ever Know You'll ever Know on YouTube. It's just for
free right up there. The song.
Speaker 1 (44:35):
Anytime anyone gets a chance to hear your two voices
independently of each other and also together, is a real
treat on the senses. Thank you for coming on Katie's
Crib again. Congratulations on your beautiful family and your beautiful
career and all of the things.
Speaker 3 (44:50):
That are going on in your life.
Speaker 1 (44:51):
I couldn't all be happening to a better person and family.
Speaker 2 (44:56):
Oh I love you.
Speaker 3 (44:57):
I love you so much.
Speaker 2 (44:59):
I love you.
Speaker 1 (45:06):
Thank you guys so much for listening to today's episode.
I want to hear from you. Let's chat questions, comments, concerns.
Speaker 3 (45:13):
Let me know.
Speaker 1 (45:14):
You can always find me at Katiescrib at Shondaland dot com.
Katie's Crib is a production of Shondaland Audio in partnership
with iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from Shondaland Audio, visit the
iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your
favorite shows.
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