September 8, 2022 • 49 mins
Katie is joined this week by Co-founder and CEO of Motherly Jill Koziol. The two chat about how Jill and her co-founder Liz Tenety brought the modern motherhood lifestyle brand to fruition while raising a family, and how COVID may have set mothers back a generation.
As an entrepreneur and mom of two who felt like she needed to handle it all, Jill shares the steps she took to scale her business AND better show up for her children. She also gives her honest perspective on mom guilt, and how she practices self-care - especially after being diagnosed with multiple sclerosis soon after launching her company.
Plus, what advice does Jill have for career-driven women who are becoming first-time moms? Tune in for more.
Executive Producers: Sandie Bailey, Alex Alcheh, Lauren Hohman, Tyler Klang & Gabrielle Collins
Producer & Editor: Casby Bias
Associate Producer: Akiya McKnight
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Katie's Crib, a production of Shonda Land Audio
in partnership with I Heart Radio. This generation, today's modern parents,
have been trying to parent and create families that look
a lot different than what we were raised. And kudos
to us for trying to do that and defined trying
to create and be intentional about creating families where mothers
(00:23):
can be in the workforce and can work and don't
have to sacrifice having a family to do it. Hello, everybody,
Welcome back to Katie's Crib. I don't think I've ever
seen more is the word memes. When you keep looking
(00:45):
on Instagram and you see quotes that moms repost a lot,
you will see that a lot of them are from Motherly,
a lot of them. And I have on Katie's Crib
today the person behind Motherly and behind those brilliant self affirming,
(01:05):
life affirming, mama affirming um quotes and phrases and things
that I see and I'm always like, holy crup, that's
so right on, and they're always by Motherly. UM. To
know a little bit about Jill cozi Il, she is,
like I said, the co founder and CEO of Motherly,
which if you don't know, let me tell you. It's
a well being destination, empowering mothers to thrive with incredibly
(01:28):
expert content, innovative product solutions, and a supportive community which
we all need. We cannot do this alone. Motherly engages
an audience of forty million plus readers and viewers a
month with on demand parent education classes, Webby Award winning videos,
the Motherly Podcast, essays, articles, and a highly engaged social
(01:49):
media community. That's what I'm talking about with all those posts.
So good. Jill is also the co author of The
Motherly Guide to Becoming Mama, Redefining the Pregnancy, Birth, and
Postpartum Journey and This is Motherhood, a motherly collection of
reflections and practices. Jill is passionate about serving and empowering
(02:11):
women and mothers because when momas are successful, everyone wins.
She is an advocate for families, female founders, and how
to thrive with multiple sclerosis. Jill lives in Park City, Utah,
with her husband and her two daughters. Jill, Welcome to
Katie's crib. Hi Jill, Hi, Katie, thank you so much
(02:34):
for taking the time. I'm so excited to be talking
to you today. So let's start here, did you always
want to be a career working mom? Oh wow? Well, first,
thank you so much for having me, and great question. Um,
I had a lot of different models. You know, if
you see it, you can be it. I had a
lot of different models in my life, stay at home moms,
(02:55):
part time working moms, of of entrepreneuring women, and I, yeah,
I think I did. I My father was an entrepreneur,
and I think I always saw myself with the vision
of contributing beyond my own small world in a bigger way.
I already described it a little bit, but let's hear
it in your words. What is motherly and how did
(03:18):
you and Liz develop it? So we'll start with how
we developed it, because we developed motherly because it didn't
exist and we needed it. We were millennial mothers. We
are millennial mothers, and we felt as though media and
the world were treating motherhood as almost cartoonish um and
really building and creating these mommy wars that just didn't
really reflect our lived experiences. We looked around us and
(03:42):
saw women that were becoming mothers that were incredibly educated,
incredibly supportive, kind of a you do you generation, and
we found that as digital natives. What was out there
in the world, UM when we became moms you know,
ten years ago, just didn't really align with our expectations.
And so we launched Motherly really to be a next
generation brand UM that that showed women that motherhood could
(04:04):
be an opportunity to nurture not lose yourself. And so
we launched Motherly as woman centered, not baby centered, to
be evidence based, an expert driven, not user generated content,
which sadly can often be a race to race to
the bottom or a last And we also launched it
to be empowering and non judgmental and not scary. UM.
(04:26):
And so Motherly is a well being destination, as you said,
that is for our forty million plus moms that kind
of gathered together too to find a way to live
their best life as women and as mothers. And what
does Motherly offer for its forty million participants. So we
are a destination and a hub of content around motherhood
(04:48):
from planning a pregnancy through elementary and we're kind of
growing with the millennial generation and meeting her where they're at.
So I've got elementary age children myself, they're you know,
we're kind of moving into that space UM. We provide
expert content UM guides shop from everything from shopping guides
on tested and reviewed products to also like the how
(05:09):
twos of things like from a sleep progression to weaning
from breastpeing and all in very empowering ways. We also
have just like millions and millions of views on video
UM and so video is a really big place for
us as well. Social media very large on Facebook, Instagram,
growing on TikTok. Now look at you, I know, trying
(05:31):
trying to keep up with everyone, uy me myself getting
a little bit older, but need to get yet. We
have the Motherly podcast, we have books, and we've just
launched a digital education platform. So we are the place
to go as a hub for digital online classes from parenting, Wow,
what kind of classes are you going to offer? Tell
(05:53):
us a little bit about this. Well everything, So we
stand really tall and in that kind of pregnancy and
new mom space and we've got lots of classes around that.
Like basically, you know they always say motherhood doesn't come
with the guide, Well now it does. You've got mother
So we're there for everything from hypno birth thing and um,
you know, trying to conceive UM two then sleep classes
(06:16):
and breastfeeding classes and birth classes and the such, and
then we're also doing classes around you know, how to
raise capable adults, conscious and mindful parenting. UM. Leaning into
Grandparents one oh one is a class that we're developing
right now to like give your grand to be grandparents
to take about what's changed since they were parents. Um. WHOA,
(06:38):
that's brilliant. I don't think any that definitely, I've never
heard of that before. That's brilliant. Well, we're so committed
and obsessed to knowing what our user and audience wants,
and like I'm running a business run four moms by moms,
so we've got a great cadre of ideas every day
of what we need. Um. And again, if mothers are
(06:58):
you know, great innovators now actual innovators, and so we
just find a problem in a gap in the market
and we're here to fill it. This is a big
question that we've talked a lot about on this podcast,
and I would love to hear you speak on it.
Why did COVID nineteen just break open the impossible way
in which mothers can effectively be in the workforce? Very
(07:21):
big load of question. Um, something that we have been
really looking at for the last couple of years and
living through and carrying this with our team of working
mothers as well as our entire audience. We have this
year released our fifth annual State of Motherhood Survey results
and it's the largest statistically significant study on moms. And
(07:42):
so um we wait everything to the US Census data.
Like so we we pull together this data to give
voice to who this woman is into the struggles and
we've so we have data now from the last you know,
two plus years on COVID specifically and how it's changed.
And this is what I have found. This is a
mix of quind of qualitative and quantitative data. What I
(08:04):
believe is that this generation, today's modern parents, have been
trying to parent and create families that look a lot
different than what we were raised And and kudos to
us for trying to do that and defined trying to
create and be intentional about creating families where mothers can
be in the workforce and can work and don't have
(08:24):
to sacrifice having a family to do it. And so
I think you find partners that are much more engaged
these days than in the past. And I think we've
we've made a lot of progress towards that, but but
it's outside of everyone's comfort zone. Then COVID comes along,
and what we get with COVID is this thing that
throws everyone outside of their comfort zone even more. And
(08:45):
when you're faced with the crisis, you try to go
back to what's comfortable, what worked, what have I seen
in the past. And I think what we found is
that mothers were disproportionately impacted by COVID because all of
that effort towards trying to create a different type of
family got put on the back burner. All this progress
got put back and we went back to default parenting expectations,
(09:06):
which is, you know, the man's out in the workforce
working and the mom's taking home. We went back to
what felt comfortable, and it has set us back. Sometimes
in my negative moments, it feels like it's set us
back a generation. Frankly, when you look at the Great Resignation,
it is not a surprise that the Great Resignation happened
when schools were supposed to start back up and didn't.
(09:29):
When you lose the backstop of government support for things
like this, mothers are the ones that carry that unequal burden.
Oh my god, it makes me, honestly, like I feel
emotional about it, Like I'm just like you should we
need to be angry. It's so setting uh as running Motherly,
I mean, I find it can be really hard to
(09:51):
practice what you preach. I really do, like I a
lot and oftentimes think that this podcast is the greatest gift.
And then sometimes I'm like, I know exactly what I
should be doing in this parenting moment, and watch me
not do it? Do you know what I mean? Like?
How do you manage it all? How do you manage
motherly being a mother of two? Also you're living with MS?
Like how I mean, We're gonna get into that later,
(10:13):
but how do you manage being a working mother in
a pandemic world? So loaded loaded question. We can spend
an entire episode probably talking about that. UM. I think
it's important to note that, just like parenting evolves and
changes as your children age and you enter these different stages,
(10:33):
like just when you think you've got it figured out,
you don't write, things change. For me, being a working
mother has been that way too. When we first launched Motherly,
before we had any funding or any staff, like it
was working without childcare during nap times like very young children. Um,
and on weekends you know, with a supportive partner, supportive
husband who would take them on saturdays, and I would
like power through and now and it has evolved and change,
(10:57):
you know through the years with Motherly, where we have
a staff now that create you know, helps facilitate enable
me to have better integration in my work, work in life.
And um, now like we've got to no pair, I
who just started on Friday. Um, this is a new
phase for us. Our kids are going to be going
a bit further away for school and we need additional
like we need driver's support at this point to make
(11:19):
it work. And so um, it's our childcare evolving and changing.
It's frankly as my means, as our family have improved,
you know, outsourcing things like this is there's privilege involved
in this, for sure. There's the fact that I have
healthy meals delivered as an example, UM, and I do
have the O pair. We have a home that can
facilitate that and have someone live with us for it.
(11:41):
But it also it's it's hard, no matter what, It's
very hard. Motherly is not a personality driven brand because
I don't want people thinking I think I'm the perfect parent. Uh,
that is definitely not the case. Like I'm reading and
learning from motherly and our experts every single day also
and um, just like everyone else, Like I'm kind of
(12:03):
making it up as I go along to how keeping
it personal at the moment. Is this the first time
you've ever had live in care? Um? I know you said,
it's sort of organically shifted from when you were doing
everything when they were little little and fitting in being
a working mother during naps and during weekends, which I
(12:26):
have a ton of friends that do that, and my god, um,
it's insane, it's really insane. Um, and doing work, like
you get the kids down at seven, eight o'clock at
night and then you're working from till eleven thirty and
then you're up at six doing it all over again. Um,
I'm getting PTSD reminding me. Yeah, you know, it's funny.
I remember when my brother got My brother is a
(12:48):
very very very involved dad and even still his wife
got COVID and had to quarantine. This was in the
beginning arantine somewhere else and they had a very young
baby and he was getting up at four am, working
from four to seven on his work, being with her
(13:10):
from seven to ten, she'd take her first nap, then
he would do work like he was and he was like,
that was the hardest week of my life. Like he
was like existing on fort I was like, that's what
moms do it. It's fucked up. It is so fucked up.
So how's your mom guilt? Talk to me about that, Jill.
It's it's real. Um. So well, and one thing you men,
(13:31):
you mentioned COVID And I didn't answer that first part
of that other question, but I moved and moved my
whole family because of COVID. Schools were going to be
closed in California, and my husband and I, who was
also a very you know, stressed out business person, UM
was like, this is not going to work for our family.
Were far from family. We need these kids in school,
Like this does not work. And that is where I
(13:53):
started to really feel a lot of mom guilt then,
because I wasn't showing up as my best self right.
I mean, we had a we had a white board
where we were outlining what things I needed to do
my husband I need to do for our our own
physical selves, for our family, for a household, and for work.
And we were putting showering on like to make sure
we did those things at that time, and it just
(14:14):
we were not showing up as our best selves. I was,
you know, I had a kindergartener at the time who
could not do the zooms and do all of that
on our own. It was insanity. And so we we
like a boarded ship. I mean, we literally got in
a car and drove to Park City, Utah, because we
heard the schools were going to be open, and we
thought we were only going to stay here for four months,
because you know, we thought the world would return to normal,
(14:37):
and it didn't. And we ended up buying a house.
And so I've in a place that I had never
known about our moved into before. And so I feel
guilt because I like ripped my family out of like
their home right to make this work during COVID. But
I also again that concept of mom guilt. Like I'm
Catholic too, so like I get I get the guilt, right, yeah, yeah,
(14:57):
but it doesn't serve anyone honestly. And so I am
constantly like my children asked me about working, and they're
old enough now they're eight in ten, they understand that,
like I am doing something that I enjoy doing because
I think it's important they see that moms enjoy work,
that I enjoy what I'm doing, that it is contributing
to our family. Um, I'm blessed that it's serving the
(15:18):
world in a bigger way, like they're proud of me,
um and I and I think that helps. But I'm
also always open to the fact that, like, we can
change how we're doing this. We're not setting our ways,
And I think COVID has kind of taught us that,
like the whole world can change in an instant. And
so if something's not working and not serving my family,
were making me feel guilty, like I will find a
way to shift. Didn't change. Great. You were included in
(15:50):
a documentary releaser by the E W Scripts Company earlier
this year. The documentary titled Motherhood in America is all
about moms and it acknowledges all the work mothers do
and the challenges they face. And you mentioned in the
documentary that family planning is on the top of your
agenda and that you really you actually did, really want
to do it by yourself. Is that true? Yeah, I
(16:13):
mean we've been taught as women to try to do
it all ourselves, um, and so in the very beginning,
I mean, I when we first had our daughter, our
first daughter, Claire, I remember, I was adamant. I didn't
want people visiting us the first two weeks. I wanted,
like me and my husband to do it a bubble. Yeah,
I wanted like a little bubble for us to figure
it out. And I, you know, I didn't want childcare help.
(16:35):
I didn't want to help with like housekeeping. Like I
felt this like sense of like identity, like this need
to do every single thing myself. And it, I mean,
it nearly killed me. I mean that was impossible, especially
when I went back to work sooner than you know,
like most American women, UM, sooner than my body and
like my emotions were ready for me. And it nearly
(16:57):
killed me. And I remember talking to my mother in law,
who is a dentist and has always had elither had
her own practice or worked and she sees that I'm
okay asking for help and and frankly demanding that we
have help in our family. And she says that she's
almost like, not in a negative way, but like envious
of the fact that I have come to terms with
(17:20):
the fact that I can't do it all. Finally it
took years uh in my MS diagnosis, but that it
come to terms of like I'm okay accepting the help
because as a woman, you know, raising children in the eighties,
like she didn't have that. She didn't have she couldn't
give herself that permission. And she sees like, how much
more present I can be with my children because I'm
not scrubbing the floor at the same time, right, Like
(17:41):
I'm able to find Again, there's privilege involved in that,
but like we trade off other things, right, Like right,
I prioritize those things so that I can make it
work for both my mental and physical health. M hm um.
What were some of the moments in your life where
you recognized at someone else could do something faster, cheaper better.
(18:04):
For example, like you said, maybe you need help cleaning
your house, Maybe you need help you know as a driver,
Like that's something that like you can outsource that might
actually make it so that you can earn more money
in that time. Uh, in another way, can you give
me some examples of moments like that. It was definitely
Motherly as we started to scaling grow and realizing that
(18:28):
I had to hire people at Motherly to do more
things right. Like that was the starting point for me
that made me realize that, like, maybe I can do
this thing, but I'm not the only person that can
do this thing, and by me trying to do all
the things, I'm actually holding back this business and our potential, right.
And so I started getting more comfortable hiring people for Motherly,
and then I started realizing, oh, whoa, that person can
(18:51):
do that better than I did it, right, And so
I got past that mental block of it, and then
I started realizing I started understanding what it was like
to scale right. And then I said, well, if I
can scale in my business life, then I can probably
scale and better optimize in my personal life too. And
it was definitely a really important moment when we raised
our first outside funding, so Motherly's venture backed, which means
(19:14):
we have investors. This is um so we're meant to
be a high growth company. And you can't do that
if you're constantly distracted by the mental list of things
that you need to be doing for your home and
your household too. And so I knew that I was
going to let those investors down and that frankly, I
had a fiduciary responsibility um to find a way to
make this work better. It reminds me Carrie Washington, who's
(19:39):
one of my dear dear friends. You know, she's such
a titan in in all in all ways, but she's
you know, such so career driven, an excellent mother of three,
she you know, runs businesses as a production company, a
million things going on. And she used to say to me,
(20:00):
if you're always just maintaining, you'll never be able to grow. Absolutely,
And so if you just spend your days in reaction
to everything going on, whether that's in the with the
kids or in your business, you'll never be able to
like have the brain space to actually do something better
or figure out what it is exactly that you want.
(20:23):
And it's and it's releasing yourself from these self limiting
models that you have of who and what you are
right and and again this gets back to like I
do think our generation has been trying to be very
intentional about creating a different type of family and dynamic
then maybe we were raised in and I am just
I think that's such an amazing thing. But it takes intentionality,
and it's uncomfortable, and it is um it's always like,
(20:47):
you know, two steps forward, one step back right and
making those kinds of changes. But you have to break
things apart and go outside of what feels comfortable in
order to have that growth. Is being a mom harder
or easier than you imagine. New motherhood was so much harder.
I don't know what I was thinking. Um, I, I know,
(21:07):
you really don't know until you get there, right. I'm
convinced every person is like, I think I'll be okay,
Like I think I'll be okay, and then you get
there and you're like, I am not okay. Oh I didn't.
I did not appreciate the physicality of motherhood. Breastfeeding was
incredibly hard for me, And then I had all that
guilt around, like you know, switching to formula, and now
(21:29):
I'm piste off that I understand so much more about
formula that there weren't better choices in formula than um.
But like I had, I had no idea how my
body was going to be rocked, and that it wasn't
just this like postpartum period, that it was really like
reclaiming My body took really really long time to feel
(21:49):
like it was my own. And I mean there are
still times with an eight and ten year old that
I'm like, mommy needs a little personal space, Like I
need you a little further away from me right now
because I'm feeling touched out. Oh yeah, I said that
to my son this morning. He kept like I was
having conversations with other people and he kept grabbing my
face to look at him and pay attention to him.
And I just got my period today, so I'm like
(22:10):
super sensitive to touch. It's like, I'm just like, please
do not touch my body unless you have asked permission first. Also,
please use your words, say excuse me, and then be
patient to wait until I say yes, I hear you.
Give me a moment, you know, give me a moment.
And I was like so touched out this morning, I
couldn't handle it. So things like that that are so
(22:32):
much harder. There are other things like having a second child.
It was so much easier to love a second child.
I agree. I'm I had a very similar experience, Like
I did not have the like I feel bad about
having a second kid, or am I going to have
enough room in my heart for a second kid? Yeah,
(22:54):
I know that all was seamless for me to Thank God. Yeah,
thank goodness, I mean we all again it's a lot
of times I think of it like as a CEO,
I you know, have to worry about technology and we're
a digital based company. And I always tell my tech
team they'll laugh if they listen to this, that like
I know enough to be dangerous. So the things that
I think are easy to do from a tech perspective
(23:15):
are actually really fucking hard. And the things that I
think are hard, they're like, we can do that in
thirty seconds. And that's how parenting, I think is, Like
my expectations are often very very off, and I'm starting
to learn that bigger kids, bigger problems. Um, the physicality
is a lot less now they're older. But I think,
(23:36):
you know, I'm entering I've got two daughters, Like I'm
entering into like between and team stage. So like pray
for me. Yeah, you're yeah, bigger problems in the mental health,
you're in a different phase. Oh my god, I'm terrifying exactly.
(24:00):
You mentioned on your motherly website, which is incredible. Everybody listening,
go to the motherly website. Thank you so much. That
you were diagnosed with multiple sclerosis three months after launching Motherly.
How tell me about your mental health space after receiving
the news. Oh, that would be the low point of life,
(24:20):
I have to say. UM, So I developed optic naritis,
which is the most common time way of getting of
starting to experience ms UM, which is almost like you
have like a bug screen over like a bug screen
over your eyes. So I could still see, but they
were like it wasn't and it was clear, but there
were like black spots in it almost right. And that
(24:42):
was weird because I was thirty five, which, by the way,
happens to be the average age of onset of multiple
scrosis for women. And so the good news is when
you get optic naritis or any kind of weird I
thing in your thirty five, like the automatri sees you
immediately and so UM, I was actually diagnosed very quickly. UM.
Some people it takes decades to get diagnosed, and so
(25:03):
I was diagnosed within ten days of onset of symptoms. UM.
And that was a combination of being able to advocate
for myself and feeling entitled to advocate for myself, having
an excellent network, having great health insurance, and like being
an area in the Bay Area with like Stanford and
UCSF and great access to care and had any of
(25:24):
those things not been true, it could have taken me
a lot longer. So in equity and healthcare is like
a whole another topic for a podcast, but yeah, we've
done them and it's dismal and so so I was
diagnosed very quickly. But yeah, it was three months after
launching Motherly and like launching out with like from Google
headquarters in New York and you know, the eyes on
(25:46):
us and like wanting to scale and had worked so
hard to launch this thing, and I was floored. I mean,
it's one of the few times I've been brought to
my knees in my life because I found out that like,
not only did I have this problem, but I had
actually had seven or eight asians in my brain, which
are like things. Only one was active at the time,
but those are like scars on your brain from having had,
(26:07):
you know, episodes of some sort along the way. And
I had to look. I had to make really hard
decisions really fast, and including one which was to start
a really aggressive medicine that would stop MS and it's
in its tracks, which it did. But I also had
to decide that we were done having children because it's
known to um have birth defects and I, I mean,
(26:31):
we made that hard family choice for ourselves and it
was the best choice. UM. And but yeah, then I
was doing you know, Ahmed every month with my team on.
You know, I'd be at the hospital for an outpatient,
but be at the hospital for the infusion that I
would do every month, and like while there and you know,
i'd be find at the beginning of it and by
(26:51):
the ends like they'd see my head kind of oh
my gosh. And just but like I couldn't stop. I mean,
if you ask Liz, I don't think I took a
full day off the whole time, because we just couldn't UM.
And I'm a woman and a mom. I just kept
powering on UM. But then later I started to learn
that this was kind of a wake up call. Like
(27:13):
the MS wasn't caused by my stress right or anything
related to that, but it was certainly the wake up
call that I needed to find better balance in my
life and to find tools that could help me create
space so that I really could prioritize my health and
show up best as the CEO of Motherly but also
as the CEO of my family. Mm hmm. I know
(27:36):
that self care is very very important, um in terms
of like like walking when it's too hot out, like
like a lot of things Like that's such a stupid example,
but just meaning to say, you really have to reevaluate
your life, um and make it so that you stay healthy. Um.
(27:57):
How tell me about reevaluating things like that and how
that affected your career and your family dynamics. So because
I was diagnosed so quickly and my first flare like
real flair that impacted my life was able to kind
of revert back, I have what's called remitting relapsing. It remitted,
it came back, I mean it went away and it's
(28:18):
never come back for me because of the meds that
I'm on and I'm on Oak Purvis now, um so
it's a different med but switched over to that and
it's like the most widely used and just it's a
game changer for people. Um. And because of that, I
have zero symptoms, like zero symptoms um from it. Again,
everyone's lived experiences differently with MS, so I've been very
(28:40):
very lucky with that, and but it's still taught me,
Like I exercise. I remember my doctor said, most people
you know say, oh, I want to exercise, like three
to five times a week, like that's what it takes
to be healthy. And he's like, for you, you need
to think to yourself, five is my minimum? Because MS
is it can be a layering disease, right, and so
(29:03):
as I age, we don't want something else to get
layered on, like with obesity or diabetes or some other
health related issue. He's like, you need to be as
healthy as you possibly can so that if for some
reason the MS starts to come back, you're not layering
in on top of other things. Wow wow, wow wow,
But what a gift is that? Yeah, No, you're like
(29:24):
you're not. Look, we should all be working out or
taking care of our physical bodies. But you know that
very deeply right now. Well, I had a doctor actually
like write me a prescription for it in a way,
right and tell you like you have to do it.
And it was so scared at that time of MS
and of like of of becoming the stabilitated person, which
(29:47):
is what you see right um, and that I was like, okay,
got it, Like I will do. So it's eating whole foods,
not processed foods, not a lot of sugar, working out
and finding space for like mindfulness and meditation shin too, right,
like to clear that space for myself, and that last
one is the hardest. But I've meditated every day this week, UM,
which is doing good. Well done on you, Jill. I've
(30:11):
sat down to start every day and then my son
comes in and I'm like, Okay, how did Motherly and
your family support you through the diagnosis? I mean, Liz
Tentedy is my co founder and she is the end
of my yang. UM. We became so close through Motherly
(30:32):
as a whole, like no one else in the world
knows what it means to be a co founder of
Motherly but her right, and so this really intense relationship
for through the ups and downs of startup life UM
and through MS and UM she was has always been
incredibly supportive and UM and the whole team too. In
the early days, you know, Katie, I I was nervous
(30:53):
to tell our investors because of the stigma attached to MS.
I mean, it's a neurological disease, right, and I'm a
there's so few women in venture backed businesses running venture
backed businesses, and even fewer mothers doing it. I didn't
want to give any reason why, you know that could
hold me back in some way or why they shouldn't invest.
(31:14):
And so you know, I met with our attorneys and
they said, look like this is you have doctors saying
it's not holding you back. You don't have to tell them.
So I waited a little while to really share that
diagnosed until diagnosis until I felt like motherly was strong
enough on its own right. Um, and that was hard,
but I had the support of my team, and I
had the support, and ultimately I learned I have the
(31:35):
support of my investors too, which is wonderful. And then
on the family side, Um, my husband is amazing. Pete,
m y, Pete. He's he's a really he's a true partner.
Um he I will say, and he would acknowledge this,
Like it is very uncomfortable in our family when I
(31:57):
am weak for whatever reason. Like he's so used to
me being strong and solid and like the rock that
everyone else can lean on. That when there are moments
when I show weakness, like it sets the family off kilter.
But like and and he has a hard time initially responding,
but like when I am there, standing there in that
weakness and he can like really internalize that he's there,
(32:20):
he shows up and he carries the load when he
needs to, um, which is wonderful. UM. And then also
you know it's also girlfriends, right, like I mean women
like I have a friend. UM. I had a really
hard time going to the first I went to an
m S walk after I was first diagnosed, and like
trying to internalize and process the fact that I had
a disease that required a walk right to fundraise for
(32:42):
it and of course and I was so traumatized seeing
the people and like the disabilities that came from it
later and um, and I was really not looking forward
to it the next year. It was felt like the
survivor guilt of sorts that that wasn't sure for me.
And I had a dear friend Evan who told me,
gave me permission. She's like, Jill, this is not your story,
(33:05):
Like you don't have to go and do that, right, like,
you choose what is your story and this and it
doesn't have to be what you There's no should are
supposed to use right, So friends, family, and thank you pete. UM.
Can you give us some examples of when you pushed
like past guild, whether it's work guild or family guild,
(33:27):
and you prioritize self care instead. How do you make
those calls? How do you How did you meditate every
day this week? So this is a new one. Okay.
I took a transcendental um um transcendent meditation of course
a couple of years ago when things were like not
going well with motherly and like I was not sleeping
and like there was this like stress cycle kind of
(33:48):
happening then, and I sleep was so critical. So I
took the course then and then I've been horrible at
following up on it, and so um I, for whatever reason,
I just felt like now is the time to come
back to that practice, and so um I have just
woken up. I'm not doing the whole thing right now.
I'm not being a good like practice m practicer, but
woke up ten minutes earlier than I normally do, and
(34:09):
I sat up and I meditated, um just for ten minutes. Hey,
that's fucking to you and not And you know what,
no one even knew because it was ten minutes earlier,
right Like, so no one in the family, no one
was running in to wake me up. That's gonna happen
like tomorrow, now that I've said this, um so there's that,
but the guilt side of it, you know. I mean
(34:30):
every day today I had a call starting at eight am,
and I had a workout class at eight thirty, and um,
I talked to my Cheetah staff while I'm driving there
and like it's summer, the kids are, you know, home
from you know, camp doesn't start till later, and so
it's not part of like the normal routine. And I
was like, Daddy's gonna take you to camp today, Like
I'm doing this and this is where like the clawing
a like no, mommy, what are you gonna pick us?
(34:52):
Are you going to pick us up? Like, no, the
pair is gonna come pick you up today, And like
there are times in my life where I probably would
have been like okay, like I'll stay, and maybe when
they were younger, maybe like I'll stay, like my workout
doesn't need to happen. That's me. Damn it no, Like yeah,
damn it no. Yes. And I think I feel a
(35:13):
responsibility too because I'm raising daughters that I want to
raise daughters that understand self care that I model it
for now because I want them to have a healthy
relationship and I don't I want it to feel like
organic for them. I don't want it to have to
be like hard in the way that it is for us, right,
And so I kind of feel like I wipe away
(35:33):
a little bit of guilt because I tell myself that
I'm modeling something important for them. Yeah, I do that
when I go to work and he's like, no, you're
always going to work, You're always leaving. Get it on,
And I just flip it around in my brand and
I say, and I'm I I love my job. I'm
so happy that I get to go to a job
that I love so much. And my hope for you
(35:54):
is that some day you get to go to a
job that you love so much. To love that so important.
And I'm saying it out loud to convince myself to
get over the mom guilt totally. How were you practicing
saying no to others after you found out about your diagnosis, Like,
what would you say was the best way to practice
and follow through on saying no for you? You know,
(36:17):
that's a great question because there's I actually wrote a
small essay and then this is Motherhood Book because I'm
not one of the I'm not one of the writers
at Motherly Lake Again play to other people's superpowers. Not
my thing, but I did write one about that because
again speaking about wise women in your village of sorts
and friends. Um I had this woman, um Lori and
(36:38):
in my circle of friends in California, and she her
children a little bit older, so she's like, you know,
a couple of stages ahead. And she talked about she
had a cancer diagnosis um or when her kids are
a little bit younger. And she just said, you know,
this is not my season for saying yes, this is
my season for no, and like the season always like
(36:59):
see change right and like my yeam, and that was
so freeing, and so I just started saying, like, you know,
that's like if someone asked me to volunteer at school
as an example, right, like this isn't really my season
for volunteering right now, and so like but like please
ask me again, like next year, like ship that's good,
(37:21):
that's really good, not this season. You know, this isn't
my season for that. Oh my god, that's really funny. Yes,
And then you have to like and then talking about
stories you tell yourself and saying it out loud, but
also like, this is not my season for cooking in
the home either personally, I've never been in that season.
I I don't I don't know what that looks at.
(37:42):
I don't know, but I've never been in that season
to my whole life. I mean, a kid's menu I'm
fine with. I can do fucking meatballs, spaghetti, chicken, fingers,
casey d whatever, That's all fine, But like a season
for cooking actual ship never gonna happen. Don't care, not
a value of mine, exactly exactly leaning into those and
letting the guilt go about them and just being like
this is not that's not not my thing right now. Yeah,
(38:05):
I'm not not my season. That is so funny. One
other kind of tip on that is I also, um,
I started to prioritize, like if I am going to
volunteer with the schools. Back then, I said, I wanted
to be in a place where my children see me,
So like I'm not going to be on the organizing committee,
but I'll show up to do the thing so my
kids see me there and like I'm part of that
(38:26):
experience with them, Like if I could pick and choose.
So that was really important to Ship. That's good. Who
gave you that tip? That one? I just kind of
like figured out. But here's the difference. Now that I'm
you know, the CEO of a company, I can do
my best, my most my highest driven purpose is joining
the board of things. I can have the largest impact
(38:47):
in the shortest amount of time. Right again, the season's
change for like what you need and how you can work? Wow,
what would you say to women who are moms who
are looking to start a business? Start talking about it
every day with everyone, Like, start trying on for size
(39:08):
what that is. We have a lot of self limiting
talk that we do for ourselves, especially as women and
even more as moms. And the biggest advice I can
give is just start talking about it. Create that feedback loop.
See what people have to say. Um, it'll change how
you talk about it the next time, right, Like, just
put it out there into the world and see what
kind of goodness comes from that. The more you talk
(39:30):
about it, the more support you get. The more you
you know, iterate the idea through talking about it, the
bigger it becomes. It's it's like watering a plant, right
like it will continue to grow and so and a
lot of people hold it too close, like their idea.
They keep it, you know, they kind of put it
aside and they keep it so close, and you know
they feed it quietly on the side, but like, no,
(39:51):
put it out there in the world and talk about
it as much as you can. This is such a
great and achievable tip like that is you just keep watering,
just keep talking about it, to talk about your idea,
talking about the business. You want to talk about it
with anyone who listen. It's family, it's friends, it's the
school drop off, like whatever funking is. Just talk because
that's sort of how my husband started the pretzel business.
(40:12):
And then like one thing started, my husband started a
pretzel business during the pandemic. But anyway, it was like
through just opening his mouth like constantly. It really does work. Okay,
Then the opposite of that question, what tips and support
do you give women who have huge careers already who
are becoming first time moms. Yes, so it's time to
(40:34):
radically prioritize um and and to acknowledge that you are
not going to be able to do all of the things.
You're gonna be a master at your calendar. You're gonna
be so much more efficient. You're going to gain all
these super powers through motherhood that are going to make
you better at your job. But you've got you'll learn
(40:55):
like I did, to hire really good people that like,
don't be scared about them being better than you. That's
a good thing, um, And to really empower them in
a different way to free you up some on the
business side. And then the same thing at home, Like
do the things that bring you joy and have the
biggest impact with your child and with your with your
(41:16):
partner if you have one, and like and let the
rest of it go. Let it go. Yeah, that is
so great, Such great advice. Any advice for mothers what
they can do if they feel like it's all too
overwhelming and impossible. Talk about it again. Um, let's talk
about it with your partner, talk about it with your friends,
(41:38):
and talk about it with your doctor. You know, we've
got a mental health epidemic in this country that has
been exacerbated by COVID, by the pandemic UM A lot
of anxiety, a lot of depression, UM, and you know,
post lack of structural and governmental and societal support from
mothers generally, like talk to your doctors about it. And
(41:59):
so often women's medical issues, mental or physical, are not
um are not really taken seriously in the medical world.
And so if you feel like you're not being taken seriously,
go to another doctor. Yeah, you have to advocating for yourself.
You have to. If you feel like you are not
a priority, not getting the attention you need, people aren't
(42:20):
listening to you, and you don't feel well mentally or physically,
go to someone else. Exactly. You women intuitively understand when
something is not right with their bodies. We are very
very capable of that. And the thing that we're not
always so good at is advocating for ourselves and and
giving voice to those things. And again we put ourselves
(42:42):
on the back burner over and over again. And I
say all the time, if a mother is thriving, then
and only then can a family in a community thrive.
And so we're at the center. I love that we
are the center. Good Lord, Yes, do you have any
(43:03):
favorite stories about your kids? Goodness? You know, I actually have.
I should have. If I'd know when you were asking this,
I would have brought it with me. Um. I had
this little thought, one line a day journal, like a
five year journal. It's like this big and I did
and I did it for like three years or like
two and a half. Oh. I I did it one
page and then I was like, I'm not doing this.
(43:23):
Three years is good? Good Lord, good on you. The
girls were two years apart, so there's a lot of
cuteness happening in three years, right, like quotes down of
like what they would say. I used it as that
more than anything. Um, and I just my daughter found it.
My ten year old found it the other day and
I was like, you know what, I might pick it
back up like seven years later and just start again
(43:44):
with it now. So it's to me, it's it's not
like the big things, it's the little tiny things that
make me so happy and make me smile. Like she
reading that she remembered that her sister's name when we
moved here, she changed from Kate to Catherine. I mean
she's seven, so like you know, you can tell how
you can tell a high school is going to be
(44:05):
for us already by that little anecdote. Um, I am
no longer Kate. I will only be called Katherine. So
I'm reading through this and apparently Claire, our eldest, used
to call her Tate. She couldn't call her Kate. Um.
And then there was another one in there that Kate
at the time. Katherine. Now, um, someone came up and
like set like an adult and was like, you know
(44:26):
what's your you know what's your name? And she's like,
She's like, my name is Kate, but you can call
me Cubby and like never ever has anyone called her
copy like she gave herself this nickname. Yeah, there's all
It's all the tiny little moments that add up over time.
And you know, I wish I had taken more video
actually when they were little, little, um, just to capture
(44:49):
all of that. Well, you were a little busy. It's
always a little busy. It's okay, it's okay. Um, two
more last questions and then we'll go, Um, how do
you believe this is? We do so many podcasts on this,
but if you have anything to add to this, great
and if not, I get it because it's too much.
How do you believe that America can change and provide
better for moms in the workspace? Oh, Katie, I got
(45:12):
a list on this one. I mean, okay, go read
the State of Motherhood study fro or hell, go read
all five of them. Okay, if you want to playbook
on what mothers need because through motherly they have told
us what they need. They need paid maternity leave. They
need rental leave in this country, like we need to
(45:33):
rental leave in this country and stop. Yes. Second, they
need affordable childcare. We need affordable childcare. Yes, yes, And
here's I learned this recently. Do you know that during
World War Two, when women had to go to work
in factories, do you know that we had government provided
(45:54):
childcare for all of the children. If you were a
working mother, you dropped your children off with these at
these beautiful locations, for all of your children. They took
your child to the doctor for you, I get the chills.
They took your child to the doctor. And when you
picked your children up at the end of the day,
they gave you a cast of role so you didn't
have to make dinner. Shut the front door, Jill, Like
(46:17):
we've done this, guys. This is fucked up. Were set
up to fail. It's fucked up. It's it's it's what
we are doing is impossible. And here's here's for you,
Katie and for your for your listeners. The millennial generation
is the first generation history and which women are more
educated than men. Okay, I read this on your site.
(46:39):
It is no longer a nice to have for women
to be in the workforce. It is an economic and
competitive and perative, which means in order for our country
to be competitive in the world, we have got to
figure out how to keep women in the workforce after
they become mothers. We have to support them or we
are going to lose as a country, as a society.
(47:02):
Like this is not a nice to have anymore, and
it's an imperative. Ok, you gonna make me cry. But
those are two totally things that by the way, regardless
of party, everyone is everyone, every single person that we mean,
it's like it is one of the few things that
everyone is aligned on this country is paid paternity leave,
like government paid supportive fraternity lead and affordable childcare. That's it.
(47:25):
That is what we need in this country. If we
did those two things, Oh oh my gosh, it would
be yeah, yeah, who who has that? Finland, Norway, Sweden.
I mean we're the last developing country. I feel like
that doesn't have paid paternity leave. But there's others that
do and have it much longer. They're smaller countries, they're
less diverse. It's harder us as big and gnarly in
(47:48):
a lot of different ways. But we can do this.
We can. We have to. It's imperative we will lose.
Women are better and smarter and more educated then men.
They have to be in the workplace. Okay, finish this
sentence and that I'm letting you go. Parenthood is Parenthood
(48:10):
is chaotic and the chaos, but like, there's so much
beauty in the chaos too. There's so much hardship, there's
so much beauty, like, but it is, it is chaotic,
there is like always, there's a lot of emotions, there's
a lot of physical needs, there's a lot of growth,
there's a lot of problems. There's a lot of food
to make and be fed, you know, like it's a lot,
(48:32):
but it's it is. It's beautiful. So like my first
thought actually it was beautiful and magical, and then I
was like, but it's not. Those are too clean of words.
It's actually chaotic and that can be beautiful too, but
it's definitely challenging and worth it. Jill, thank you so
much for coming on Katie's crib. Everybody listening, please go
(48:53):
to mother dot l Y. Jill, thank you for taking
the time to come on Katie's crib and speaking with
our listeners. It was a wonderful or. I learned a
ton of stuff that I will take for me and
you made me cry. Um. Thank you so much, it's
been so fun. Thank you guys so much for listening
(49:15):
to today's episode. I want to hear from you. Let's
chat questions, comments, concerns. Let me know. You can always
find me at Katie's Crib at Shonda land dot com.
Katie's Crib is a production of Shonda land Audio in
partnership with I heart Radio. For more podcasts from Shonda
land Audio, visit the I heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,
(49:36):
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Welcome to Katie's Crib, a production of Shonda Land Audio
in partnership with I Heart Radio. This generation, today's modern parents,
have been trying to parent and create families that look
a lot different than what we were raised. And kudos
to us for trying to do that and defined trying
to create and be intentional about creating families where mothers
(00:23):
can be in the workforce and can work and don't
have to sacrifice having a family to do it. Hello, everybody,
Welcome back to Katie's Crib. I don't think I've ever
seen more is the word memes. When you keep looking
(00:45):
on Instagram and you see quotes that moms repost a lot,
you will see that a lot of them are from Motherly,
a lot of them. And I have on Katie's Crib
today the person behind Motherly and behind those brilliant self affirming,
(01:05):
life affirming, mama affirming um quotes and phrases and things
that I see and I'm always like, holy crup, that's
so right on, and they're always by Motherly. UM. To
know a little bit about Jill cozi Il, she is,
like I said, the co founder and CEO of Motherly,
which if you don't know, let me tell you. It's
a well being destination, empowering mothers to thrive with incredibly
(01:28):
expert content, innovative product solutions, and a supportive community which
we all need. We cannot do this alone. Motherly engages
an audience of forty million plus readers and viewers a
month with on demand parent education classes, Webby Award winning videos,
the Motherly Podcast, essays, articles, and a highly engaged social
(01:49):
media community. That's what I'm talking about with all those posts.
So good. Jill is also the co author of The
Motherly Guide to Becoming Mama, Redefining the Pregnancy, Birth, and
Postpartum Journey and This is Motherhood, a motherly collection of
reflections and practices. Jill is passionate about serving and empowering
(02:11):
women and mothers because when momas are successful, everyone wins.
She is an advocate for families, female founders, and how
to thrive with multiple sclerosis. Jill lives in Park City, Utah,
with her husband and her two daughters. Jill, Welcome to
Katie's crib. Hi Jill, Hi, Katie, thank you so much
(02:34):
for taking the time. I'm so excited to be talking
to you today. So let's start here, did you always
want to be a career working mom? Oh wow? Well, first,
thank you so much for having me, and great question. Um,
I had a lot of different models. You know, if
you see it, you can be it. I had a
lot of different models in my life, stay at home moms,
(02:55):
part time working moms, of of entrepreneuring women, and I, yeah,
I think I did. I My father was an entrepreneur,
and I think I always saw myself with the vision
of contributing beyond my own small world in a bigger way.
I already described it a little bit, but let's hear
it in your words. What is motherly and how did
(03:18):
you and Liz develop it? So we'll start with how
we developed it, because we developed motherly because it didn't
exist and we needed it. We were millennial mothers. We
are millennial mothers, and we felt as though media and
the world were treating motherhood as almost cartoonish um and
really building and creating these mommy wars that just didn't
really reflect our lived experiences. We looked around us and
(03:42):
saw women that were becoming mothers that were incredibly educated,
incredibly supportive, kind of a you do you generation, and
we found that as digital natives. What was out there
in the world, UM when we became moms you know,
ten years ago, just didn't really align with our expectations.
And so we launched Motherly really to be a next
generation brand UM that that showed women that motherhood could
(04:04):
be an opportunity to nurture not lose yourself. And so
we launched Motherly as woman centered, not baby centered, to
be evidence based, an expert driven, not user generated content,
which sadly can often be a race to race to
the bottom or a last And we also launched it
to be empowering and non judgmental and not scary. UM.
(04:26):
And so Motherly is a well being destination, as you said,
that is for our forty million plus moms that kind
of gathered together too to find a way to live
their best life as women and as mothers. And what
does Motherly offer for its forty million participants. So we
are a destination and a hub of content around motherhood
(04:48):
from planning a pregnancy through elementary and we're kind of
growing with the millennial generation and meeting her where they're at.
So I've got elementary age children myself, they're you know,
we're kind of moving into that space UM. We provide
expert content UM guides shop from everything from shopping guides
on tested and reviewed products to also like the how
(05:09):
twos of things like from a sleep progression to weaning
from breastpeing and all in very empowering ways. We also
have just like millions and millions of views on video
UM and so video is a really big place for
us as well. Social media very large on Facebook, Instagram,
growing on TikTok. Now look at you, I know, trying
(05:31):
trying to keep up with everyone, uy me myself getting
a little bit older, but need to get yet. We
have the Motherly podcast, we have books, and we've just
launched a digital education platform. So we are the place
to go as a hub for digital online classes from parenting, Wow,
what kind of classes are you going to offer? Tell
(05:53):
us a little bit about this. Well everything, So we
stand really tall and in that kind of pregnancy and
new mom space and we've got lots of classes around that.
Like basically, you know they always say motherhood doesn't come
with the guide, Well now it does. You've got mother
So we're there for everything from hypno birth thing and um,
you know, trying to conceive UM two then sleep classes
(06:16):
and breastfeeding classes and birth classes and the such, and
then we're also doing classes around you know, how to
raise capable adults, conscious and mindful parenting. UM. Leaning into
Grandparents one oh one is a class that we're developing
right now to like give your grand to be grandparents
to take about what's changed since they were parents. Um. WHOA,
(06:38):
that's brilliant. I don't think any that definitely, I've never
heard of that before. That's brilliant. Well, we're so committed
and obsessed to knowing what our user and audience wants,
and like I'm running a business run four moms by moms,
so we've got a great cadre of ideas every day
of what we need. Um. And again, if mothers are
(06:58):
you know, great innovators now actual innovators, and so we
just find a problem in a gap in the market
and we're here to fill it. This is a big
question that we've talked a lot about on this podcast,
and I would love to hear you speak on it.
Why did COVID nineteen just break open the impossible way
in which mothers can effectively be in the workforce? Very
(07:21):
big load of question. Um, something that we have been
really looking at for the last couple of years and
living through and carrying this with our team of working
mothers as well as our entire audience. We have this
year released our fifth annual State of Motherhood Survey results
and it's the largest statistically significant study on moms. And
(07:42):
so um we wait everything to the US Census data.
Like so we we pull together this data to give
voice to who this woman is into the struggles and
we've so we have data now from the last you know,
two plus years on COVID specifically and how it's changed.
And this is what I have found. This is a
mix of quind of qualitative and quantitative data. What I
(08:04):
believe is that this generation, today's modern parents, have been
trying to parent and create families that look a lot
different than what we were raised And and kudos to
us for trying to do that and defined trying to
create and be intentional about creating families where mothers can
be in the workforce and can work and don't have
(08:24):
to sacrifice having a family to do it. And so
I think you find partners that are much more engaged
these days than in the past. And I think we've
we've made a lot of progress towards that, but but
it's outside of everyone's comfort zone. Then COVID comes along,
and what we get with COVID is this thing that
throws everyone outside of their comfort zone even more. And
(08:45):
when you're faced with the crisis, you try to go
back to what's comfortable, what worked, what have I seen
in the past. And I think what we found is
that mothers were disproportionately impacted by COVID because all of
that effort towards trying to create a different type of
family got put on the back burner. All this progress
got put back and we went back to default parenting expectations,
(09:06):
which is, you know, the man's out in the workforce
working and the mom's taking home. We went back to
what felt comfortable, and it has set us back. Sometimes
in my negative moments, it feels like it's set us
back a generation. Frankly, when you look at the Great Resignation,
it is not a surprise that the Great Resignation happened
when schools were supposed to start back up and didn't.
(09:29):
When you lose the backstop of government support for things
like this, mothers are the ones that carry that unequal burden.
Oh my god, it makes me, honestly, like I feel
emotional about it, Like I'm just like you should we
need to be angry. It's so setting uh as running Motherly,
I mean, I find it can be really hard to
(09:51):
practice what you preach. I really do, like I a
lot and oftentimes think that this podcast is the greatest gift.
And then sometimes I'm like, I know exactly what I
should be doing in this parenting moment, and watch me
not do it? Do you know what I mean? Like?
How do you manage it all? How do you manage
motherly being a mother of two? Also you're living with MS?
Like how I mean, We're gonna get into that later,
(10:13):
but how do you manage being a working mother in
a pandemic world? So loaded loaded question. We can spend
an entire episode probably talking about that. UM. I think
it's important to note that, just like parenting evolves and
changes as your children age and you enter these different stages,
(10:33):
like just when you think you've got it figured out,
you don't write, things change. For me, being a working
mother has been that way too. When we first launched Motherly,
before we had any funding or any staff, like it
was working without childcare during nap times like very young children. Um,
and on weekends you know, with a supportive partner, supportive
husband who would take them on saturdays, and I would
like power through and now and it has evolved and change,
(10:57):
you know through the years with Motherly, where we have
a staff now that create you know, helps facilitate enable
me to have better integration in my work, work in life.
And um, now like we've got to no pair, I
who just started on Friday. Um, this is a new
phase for us. Our kids are going to be going
a bit further away for school and we need additional
like we need driver's support at this point to make
(11:19):
it work. And so um, it's our childcare evolving and changing.
It's frankly as my means, as our family have improved,
you know, outsourcing things like this is there's privilege involved
in this, for sure. There's the fact that I have
healthy meals delivered as an example, UM, and I do
have the O pair. We have a home that can
facilitate that and have someone live with us for it.
(11:41):
But it also it's it's hard, no matter what, It's
very hard. Motherly is not a personality driven brand because
I don't want people thinking I think I'm the perfect parent. Uh,
that is definitely not the case. Like I'm reading and
learning from motherly and our experts every single day also
and um, just like everyone else, Like I'm kind of
(12:03):
making it up as I go along to how keeping
it personal at the moment. Is this the first time
you've ever had live in care? Um? I know you said,
it's sort of organically shifted from when you were doing
everything when they were little little and fitting in being
a working mother during naps and during weekends, which I
(12:26):
have a ton of friends that do that, and my god, um,
it's insane, it's really insane. Um, and doing work, like
you get the kids down at seven, eight o'clock at
night and then you're working from till eleven thirty and
then you're up at six doing it all over again. Um,
I'm getting PTSD reminding me. Yeah, you know, it's funny.
I remember when my brother got My brother is a
(12:48):
very very very involved dad and even still his wife
got COVID and had to quarantine. This was in the
beginning arantine somewhere else and they had a very young
baby and he was getting up at four am, working
from four to seven on his work, being with her
(13:10):
from seven to ten, she'd take her first nap, then
he would do work like he was and he was like,
that was the hardest week of my life. Like he
was like existing on fort I was like, that's what
moms do it. It's fucked up. It is so fucked up.
So how's your mom guilt? Talk to me about that, Jill.
It's it's real. Um. So well, and one thing you men,
(13:31):
you mentioned COVID And I didn't answer that first part
of that other question, but I moved and moved my
whole family because of COVID. Schools were going to be
closed in California, and my husband and I, who was
also a very you know, stressed out business person, UM
was like, this is not going to work for our family.
Were far from family. We need these kids in school,
Like this does not work. And that is where I
(13:53):
started to really feel a lot of mom guilt then,
because I wasn't showing up as my best self right.
I mean, we had a we had a white board
where we were outlining what things I needed to do
my husband I need to do for our our own
physical selves, for our family, for a household, and for work.
And we were putting showering on like to make sure
we did those things at that time, and it just
(14:14):
we were not showing up as our best selves. I was,
you know, I had a kindergartener at the time who
could not do the zooms and do all of that
on our own. It was insanity. And so we we
like a boarded ship. I mean, we literally got in
a car and drove to Park City, Utah, because we
heard the schools were going to be open, and we
thought we were only going to stay here for four months,
because you know, we thought the world would return to normal,
(14:37):
and it didn't. And we ended up buying a house.
And so I've in a place that I had never
known about our moved into before. And so I feel
guilt because I like ripped my family out of like
their home right to make this work during COVID. But
I also again that concept of mom guilt. Like I'm
Catholic too, so like I get I get the guilt, right, yeah, yeah,
(14:57):
but it doesn't serve anyone honestly. And so I am
constantly like my children asked me about working, and they're
old enough now they're eight in ten, they understand that,
like I am doing something that I enjoy doing because
I think it's important they see that moms enjoy work,
that I enjoy what I'm doing, that it is contributing
to our family. Um, I'm blessed that it's serving the
(15:18):
world in a bigger way, like they're proud of me,
um and I and I think that helps. But I'm
also always open to the fact that, like, we can
change how we're doing this. We're not setting our ways,
And I think COVID has kind of taught us that,
like the whole world can change in an instant. And
so if something's not working and not serving my family,
were making me feel guilty, like I will find a
way to shift. Didn't change. Great. You were included in
(15:50):
a documentary releaser by the E W Scripts Company earlier
this year. The documentary titled Motherhood in America is all
about moms and it acknowledges all the work mothers do
and the challenges they face. And you mentioned in the
documentary that family planning is on the top of your
agenda and that you really you actually did, really want
to do it by yourself. Is that true? Yeah, I
(16:13):
mean we've been taught as women to try to do
it all ourselves, um, and so in the very beginning,
I mean, I when we first had our daughter, our
first daughter, Claire, I remember, I was adamant. I didn't
want people visiting us the first two weeks. I wanted,
like me and my husband to do it a bubble. Yeah,
I wanted like a little bubble for us to figure
it out. And I, you know, I didn't want childcare help.
(16:35):
I didn't want to help with like housekeeping. Like I
felt this like sense of like identity, like this need
to do every single thing myself. And it, I mean,
it nearly killed me. I mean that was impossible, especially
when I went back to work sooner than you know,
like most American women, UM, sooner than my body and
like my emotions were ready for me. And it nearly
(16:57):
killed me. And I remember talking to my mother in law,
who is a dentist and has always had elither had
her own practice or worked and she sees that I'm
okay asking for help and and frankly demanding that we
have help in our family. And she says that she's
almost like, not in a negative way, but like envious
of the fact that I have come to terms with
(17:20):
the fact that I can't do it all. Finally it
took years uh in my MS diagnosis, but that it
come to terms of like I'm okay accepting the help
because as a woman, you know, raising children in the eighties,
like she didn't have that. She didn't have she couldn't
give herself that permission. And she sees like, how much
more present I can be with my children because I'm
not scrubbing the floor at the same time, right, Like
(17:41):
I'm able to find Again, there's privilege involved in that,
but like we trade off other things, right, Like right,
I prioritize those things so that I can make it
work for both my mental and physical health. M hm um.
What were some of the moments in your life where
you recognized at someone else could do something faster, cheaper better.
(18:04):
For example, like you said, maybe you need help cleaning
your house, Maybe you need help you know as a driver,
Like that's something that like you can outsource that might
actually make it so that you can earn more money
in that time. Uh, in another way, can you give
me some examples of moments like that. It was definitely
Motherly as we started to scaling grow and realizing that
(18:28):
I had to hire people at Motherly to do more
things right. Like that was the starting point for me
that made me realize that, like, maybe I can do
this thing, but I'm not the only person that can
do this thing, and by me trying to do all
the things, I'm actually holding back this business and our potential, right.
And so I started getting more comfortable hiring people for Motherly,
and then I started realizing, oh, whoa, that person can
(18:51):
do that better than I did it, right, And so
I got past that mental block of it, and then
I started realizing I started understanding what it was like
to scale right. And then I said, well, if I
can scale in my business life, then I can probably
scale and better optimize in my personal life too. And
it was definitely a really important moment when we raised
our first outside funding, so Motherly's venture backed, which means
(19:14):
we have investors. This is um so we're meant to
be a high growth company. And you can't do that
if you're constantly distracted by the mental list of things
that you need to be doing for your home and
your household too. And so I knew that I was
going to let those investors down and that frankly, I
had a fiduciary responsibility um to find a way to
make this work better. It reminds me Carrie Washington, who's
(19:39):
one of my dear dear friends. You know, she's such
a titan in in all in all ways, but she's
you know, such so career driven, an excellent mother of three,
she you know, runs businesses as a production company, a
million things going on. And she used to say to me,
(20:00):
if you're always just maintaining, you'll never be able to grow. Absolutely,
And so if you just spend your days in reaction
to everything going on, whether that's in the with the
kids or in your business, you'll never be able to
like have the brain space to actually do something better
or figure out what it is exactly that you want.
(20:23):
And it's and it's releasing yourself from these self limiting
models that you have of who and what you are
right and and again this gets back to like I
do think our generation has been trying to be very
intentional about creating a different type of family and dynamic
then maybe we were raised in and I am just
I think that's such an amazing thing. But it takes intentionality,
and it's uncomfortable, and it is um it's always like,
(20:47):
you know, two steps forward, one step back right and
making those kinds of changes. But you have to break
things apart and go outside of what feels comfortable in
order to have that growth. Is being a mom harder
or easier than you imagine. New motherhood was so much harder.
I don't know what I was thinking. Um, I, I know,
(21:07):
you really don't know until you get there, right. I'm
convinced every person is like, I think I'll be okay,
Like I think I'll be okay, and then you get
there and you're like, I am not okay. Oh I didn't.
I did not appreciate the physicality of motherhood. Breastfeeding was
incredibly hard for me, And then I had all that
guilt around, like you know, switching to formula, and now
(21:29):
I'm piste off that I understand so much more about
formula that there weren't better choices in formula than um.
But like I had, I had no idea how my
body was going to be rocked, and that it wasn't
just this like postpartum period, that it was really like
reclaiming My body took really really long time to feel
(21:49):
like it was my own. And I mean there are
still times with an eight and ten year old that
I'm like, mommy needs a little personal space, Like I
need you a little further away from me right now
because I'm feeling touched out. Oh yeah, I said that
to my son this morning. He kept like I was
having conversations with other people and he kept grabbing my
face to look at him and pay attention to him.
And I just got my period today, so I'm like
(22:10):
super sensitive to touch. It's like, I'm just like, please
do not touch my body unless you have asked permission first. Also,
please use your words, say excuse me, and then be
patient to wait until I say yes, I hear you.
Give me a moment, you know, give me a moment.
And I was like so touched out this morning, I
couldn't handle it. So things like that that are so
(22:32):
much harder. There are other things like having a second child.
It was so much easier to love a second child.
I agree. I'm I had a very similar experience, Like
I did not have the like I feel bad about
having a second kid, or am I going to have
enough room in my heart for a second kid? Yeah,
(22:54):
I know that all was seamless for me to Thank God. Yeah,
thank goodness, I mean we all again it's a lot
of times I think of it like as a CEO,
I you know, have to worry about technology and we're
a digital based company. And I always tell my tech
team they'll laugh if they listen to this, that like
I know enough to be dangerous. So the things that
I think are easy to do from a tech perspective
(23:15):
are actually really fucking hard. And the things that I
think are hard, they're like, we can do that in
thirty seconds. And that's how parenting, I think is, Like
my expectations are often very very off, and I'm starting
to learn that bigger kids, bigger problems. Um, the physicality
is a lot less now they're older. But I think,
(23:36):
you know, I'm entering I've got two daughters, Like I'm
entering into like between and team stage. So like pray
for me. Yeah, you're yeah, bigger problems in the mental health,
you're in a different phase. Oh my god, I'm terrifying exactly.
(24:00):
You mentioned on your motherly website, which is incredible. Everybody listening,
go to the motherly website. Thank you so much. That
you were diagnosed with multiple sclerosis three months after launching Motherly.
How tell me about your mental health space after receiving
the news. Oh, that would be the low point of life,
(24:20):
I have to say. UM, So I developed optic naritis,
which is the most common time way of getting of
starting to experience ms UM, which is almost like you
have like a bug screen over like a bug screen
over your eyes. So I could still see, but they
were like it wasn't and it was clear, but there
were like black spots in it almost right. And that
(24:42):
was weird because I was thirty five, which, by the way,
happens to be the average age of onset of multiple
scrosis for women. And so the good news is when
you get optic naritis or any kind of weird I
thing in your thirty five, like the automatri sees you
immediately and so UM, I was actually diagnosed very quickly. UM.
Some people it takes decades to get diagnosed, and so
(25:03):
I was diagnosed within ten days of onset of symptoms. UM.
And that was a combination of being able to advocate
for myself and feeling entitled to advocate for myself, having
an excellent network, having great health insurance, and like being
an area in the Bay Area with like Stanford and
UCSF and great access to care and had any of
(25:24):
those things not been true, it could have taken me
a lot longer. So in equity and healthcare is like
a whole another topic for a podcast, but yeah, we've
done them and it's dismal and so so I was
diagnosed very quickly. But yeah, it was three months after
launching Motherly and like launching out with like from Google
headquarters in New York and you know, the eyes on
(25:46):
us and like wanting to scale and had worked so
hard to launch this thing, and I was floored. I mean,
it's one of the few times I've been brought to
my knees in my life because I found out that like,
not only did I have this problem, but I had
actually had seven or eight asians in my brain, which
are like things. Only one was active at the time,
but those are like scars on your brain from having had,
(26:07):
you know, episodes of some sort along the way. And
I had to look. I had to make really hard
decisions really fast, and including one which was to start
a really aggressive medicine that would stop MS and it's
in its tracks, which it did. But I also had
to decide that we were done having children because it's
known to um have birth defects and I, I mean,
(26:31):
we made that hard family choice for ourselves and it
was the best choice. UM. And but yeah, then I
was doing you know, Ahmed every month with my team on.
You know, I'd be at the hospital for an outpatient,
but be at the hospital for the infusion that I
would do every month, and like while there and you know,
i'd be find at the beginning of it and by
(26:51):
the ends like they'd see my head kind of oh
my gosh. And just but like I couldn't stop. I mean,
if you ask Liz, I don't think I took a
full day off the whole time, because we just couldn't UM.
And I'm a woman and a mom. I just kept
powering on UM. But then later I started to learn
that this was kind of a wake up call. Like
(27:13):
the MS wasn't caused by my stress right or anything
related to that, but it was certainly the wake up
call that I needed to find better balance in my
life and to find tools that could help me create
space so that I really could prioritize my health and
show up best as the CEO of Motherly but also
as the CEO of my family. Mm hmm. I know
(27:36):
that self care is very very important, um in terms
of like like walking when it's too hot out, like
like a lot of things Like that's such a stupid example,
but just meaning to say, you really have to reevaluate
your life, um and make it so that you stay healthy. Um.
(27:57):
How tell me about reevaluating things like that and how
that affected your career and your family dynamics. So because
I was diagnosed so quickly and my first flare like
real flair that impacted my life was able to kind
of revert back, I have what's called remitting relapsing. It remitted,
it came back, I mean it went away and it's
(28:18):
never come back for me because of the meds that
I'm on and I'm on Oak Purvis now, um so
it's a different med but switched over to that and
it's like the most widely used and just it's a
game changer for people. Um. And because of that, I
have zero symptoms, like zero symptoms um from it. Again,
everyone's lived experiences differently with MS, so I've been very
(28:40):
very lucky with that, and but it's still taught me,
Like I exercise. I remember my doctor said, most people
you know say, oh, I want to exercise, like three
to five times a week, like that's what it takes
to be healthy. And he's like, for you, you need
to think to yourself, five is my minimum? Because MS
is it can be a layering disease, right, and so
(29:03):
as I age, we don't want something else to get
layered on, like with obesity or diabetes or some other
health related issue. He's like, you need to be as
healthy as you possibly can so that if for some
reason the MS starts to come back, you're not layering
in on top of other things. Wow wow, wow wow,
But what a gift is that? Yeah, No, you're like
(29:24):
you're not. Look, we should all be working out or
taking care of our physical bodies. But you know that
very deeply right now. Well, I had a doctor actually
like write me a prescription for it in a way,
right and tell you like you have to do it.
And it was so scared at that time of MS
and of like of of becoming the stabilitated person, which
(29:47):
is what you see right um, and that I was like, okay,
got it, Like I will do. So it's eating whole foods,
not processed foods, not a lot of sugar, working out
and finding space for like mindfulness and meditation shin too, right,
like to clear that space for myself, and that last
one is the hardest. But I've meditated every day this week, UM,
which is doing good. Well done on you, Jill. I've
(30:11):
sat down to start every day and then my son
comes in and I'm like, Okay, how did Motherly and
your family support you through the diagnosis? I mean, Liz
Tentedy is my co founder and she is the end
of my yang. UM. We became so close through Motherly
(30:32):
as a whole, like no one else in the world
knows what it means to be a co founder of
Motherly but her right, and so this really intense relationship
for through the ups and downs of startup life UM
and through MS and UM she was has always been
incredibly supportive and UM and the whole team too. In
the early days, you know, Katie, I I was nervous
(30:53):
to tell our investors because of the stigma attached to MS.
I mean, it's a neurological disease, right, and I'm a
there's so few women in venture backed businesses running venture
backed businesses, and even fewer mothers doing it. I didn't
want to give any reason why, you know that could
hold me back in some way or why they shouldn't invest.
(31:14):
And so you know, I met with our attorneys and
they said, look like this is you have doctors saying
it's not holding you back. You don't have to tell them.
So I waited a little while to really share that
diagnosed until diagnosis until I felt like motherly was strong
enough on its own right. Um, and that was hard,
but I had the support of my team, and I
had the support, and ultimately I learned I have the
(31:35):
support of my investors too, which is wonderful. And then
on the family side, Um, my husband is amazing. Pete,
m y, Pete. He's he's a really he's a true partner.
Um he I will say, and he would acknowledge this,
Like it is very uncomfortable in our family when I
(31:57):
am weak for whatever reason. Like he's so used to
me being strong and solid and like the rock that
everyone else can lean on. That when there are moments
when I show weakness, like it sets the family off kilter.
But like and and he has a hard time initially responding,
but like when I am there, standing there in that
weakness and he can like really internalize that he's there,
(32:20):
he shows up and he carries the load when he
needs to, um, which is wonderful. UM. And then also
you know it's also girlfriends, right, like I mean women
like I have a friend. UM. I had a really
hard time going to the first I went to an
m S walk after I was first diagnosed, and like
trying to internalize and process the fact that I had
a disease that required a walk right to fundraise for
(32:42):
it and of course and I was so traumatized seeing
the people and like the disabilities that came from it
later and um, and I was really not looking forward
to it the next year. It was felt like the
survivor guilt of sorts that that wasn't sure for me.
And I had a dear friend Evan who told me,
gave me permission. She's like, Jill, this is not your story,
(33:05):
Like you don't have to go and do that, right, like,
you choose what is your story and this and it
doesn't have to be what you There's no should are
supposed to use right, So friends, family, and thank you pete. UM.
Can you give us some examples of when you pushed
like past guild, whether it's work guild or family guild,
(33:27):
and you prioritize self care instead. How do you make
those calls? How do you How did you meditate every
day this week? So this is a new one. Okay.
I took a transcendental um um transcendent meditation of course
a couple of years ago when things were like not
going well with motherly and like I was not sleeping
and like there was this like stress cycle kind of
(33:48):
happening then, and I sleep was so critical. So I
took the course then and then I've been horrible at
following up on it, and so um I, for whatever reason,
I just felt like now is the time to come
back to that practice, and so um I have just
woken up. I'm not doing the whole thing right now.
I'm not being a good like practice m practicer, but
woke up ten minutes earlier than I normally do, and
(34:09):
I sat up and I meditated, um just for ten minutes. Hey,
that's fucking to you and not And you know what,
no one even knew because it was ten minutes earlier,
right Like, so no one in the family, no one
was running in to wake me up. That's gonna happen
like tomorrow, now that I've said this, um so there's that,
but the guilt side of it, you know. I mean
(34:30):
every day today I had a call starting at eight am,
and I had a workout class at eight thirty, and um,
I talked to my Cheetah staff while I'm driving there
and like it's summer, the kids are, you know, home
from you know, camp doesn't start till later, and so
it's not part of like the normal routine. And I
was like, Daddy's gonna take you to camp today, Like
I'm doing this and this is where like the clawing
a like no, mommy, what are you gonna pick us?
(34:52):
Are you going to pick us up? Like, no, the
pair is gonna come pick you up today, And like
there are times in my life where I probably would
have been like okay, like I'll stay, and maybe when
they were younger, maybe like I'll stay, like my workout
doesn't need to happen. That's me. Damn it no, Like yeah,
damn it no. Yes. And I think I feel a
(35:13):
responsibility too because I'm raising daughters that I want to
raise daughters that understand self care that I model it
for now because I want them to have a healthy
relationship and I don't I want it to feel like
organic for them. I don't want it to have to
be like hard in the way that it is for us, right,
And so I kind of feel like I wipe away
(35:33):
a little bit of guilt because I tell myself that
I'm modeling something important for them. Yeah, I do that
when I go to work and he's like, no, you're
always going to work, You're always leaving. Get it on,
And I just flip it around in my brand and
I say, and I'm I I love my job. I'm
so happy that I get to go to a job
that I love so much. And my hope for you
(35:54):
is that some day you get to go to a
job that you love so much. To love that so important.
And I'm saying it out loud to convince myself to
get over the mom guilt totally. How were you practicing
saying no to others after you found out about your diagnosis, Like,
what would you say was the best way to practice
and follow through on saying no for you? You know,
(36:17):
that's a great question because there's I actually wrote a
small essay and then this is Motherhood Book because I'm
not one of the I'm not one of the writers
at Motherly Lake Again play to other people's superpowers. Not
my thing, but I did write one about that because
again speaking about wise women in your village of sorts
and friends. Um I had this woman, um Lori and
(36:38):
in my circle of friends in California, and she her
children a little bit older, so she's like, you know,
a couple of stages ahead. And she talked about she
had a cancer diagnosis um or when her kids are
a little bit younger. And she just said, you know,
this is not my season for saying yes, this is
my season for no, and like the season always like
(36:59):
see change right and like my yeam, and that was
so freeing, and so I just started saying, like, you know,
that's like if someone asked me to volunteer at school
as an example, right, like this isn't really my season
for volunteering right now, and so like but like please
ask me again, like next year, like ship that's good,
(37:21):
that's really good, not this season. You know, this isn't
my season for that. Oh my god, that's really funny. Yes,
And then you have to like and then talking about
stories you tell yourself and saying it out loud, but
also like, this is not my season for cooking in
the home either personally, I've never been in that season.
I I don't I don't know what that looks at.
(37:42):
I don't know, but I've never been in that season
to my whole life. I mean, a kid's menu I'm
fine with. I can do fucking meatballs, spaghetti, chicken, fingers,
casey d whatever, That's all fine, But like a season
for cooking actual ship never gonna happen. Don't care, not
a value of mine, exactly exactly leaning into those and
letting the guilt go about them and just being like
this is not that's not not my thing right now. Yeah,
(38:05):
I'm not not my season. That is so funny. One
other kind of tip on that is I also, um,
I started to prioritize, like if I am going to
volunteer with the schools. Back then, I said, I wanted
to be in a place where my children see me,
So like I'm not going to be on the organizing committee,
but I'll show up to do the thing so my
kids see me there and like I'm part of that
(38:26):
experience with them, Like if I could pick and choose.
So that was really important to Ship. That's good. Who
gave you that tip? That one? I just kind of
like figured out. But here's the difference. Now that I'm
you know, the CEO of a company, I can do
my best, my most my highest driven purpose is joining
the board of things. I can have the largest impact
(38:47):
in the shortest amount of time. Right again, the season's
change for like what you need and how you can work? Wow,
what would you say to women who are moms who
are looking to start a business? Start talking about it
every day with everyone, Like, start trying on for size
(39:08):
what that is. We have a lot of self limiting
talk that we do for ourselves, especially as women and
even more as moms. And the biggest advice I can
give is just start talking about it. Create that feedback loop.
See what people have to say. Um, it'll change how
you talk about it the next time, right, Like, just
put it out there into the world and see what
kind of goodness comes from that. The more you talk
(39:30):
about it, the more support you get. The more you
you know, iterate the idea through talking about it, the
bigger it becomes. It's it's like watering a plant, right
like it will continue to grow and so and a
lot of people hold it too close, like their idea.
They keep it, you know, they kind of put it
aside and they keep it so close, and you know
they feed it quietly on the side, but like, no,
(39:51):
put it out there in the world and talk about
it as much as you can. This is such a
great and achievable tip like that is you just keep watering,
just keep talking about it, to talk about your idea,
talking about the business. You want to talk about it
with anyone who listen. It's family, it's friends, it's the
school drop off, like whatever funking is. Just talk because
that's sort of how my husband started the pretzel business.
(40:12):
And then like one thing started, my husband started a
pretzel business during the pandemic. But anyway, it was like
through just opening his mouth like constantly. It really does work. Okay,
Then the opposite of that question, what tips and support
do you give women who have huge careers already who
are becoming first time moms. Yes, so it's time to
(40:34):
radically prioritize um and and to acknowledge that you are
not going to be able to do all of the things.
You're gonna be a master at your calendar. You're gonna
be so much more efficient. You're going to gain all
these super powers through motherhood that are going to make
you better at your job. But you've got you'll learn
(40:55):
like I did, to hire really good people that like,
don't be scared about them being better than you. That's
a good thing, um, And to really empower them in
a different way to free you up some on the
business side. And then the same thing at home, Like
do the things that bring you joy and have the
biggest impact with your child and with your with your
(41:16):
partner if you have one, and like and let the
rest of it go. Let it go. Yeah, that is
so great, Such great advice. Any advice for mothers what
they can do if they feel like it's all too
overwhelming and impossible. Talk about it again. Um, let's talk
about it with your partner, talk about it with your friends,
(41:38):
and talk about it with your doctor. You know, we've
got a mental health epidemic in this country that has
been exacerbated by COVID, by the pandemic UM A lot
of anxiety, a lot of depression, UM, and you know,
post lack of structural and governmental and societal support from
mothers generally, like talk to your doctors about it. And
(41:59):
so often women's medical issues, mental or physical, are not
um are not really taken seriously in the medical world.
And so if you feel like you're not being taken seriously,
go to another doctor. Yeah, you have to advocating for yourself.
You have to. If you feel like you are not
a priority, not getting the attention you need, people aren't
(42:20):
listening to you, and you don't feel well mentally or physically,
go to someone else. Exactly. You women intuitively understand when
something is not right with their bodies. We are very
very capable of that. And the thing that we're not
always so good at is advocating for ourselves and and
giving voice to those things. And again we put ourselves
(42:42):
on the back burner over and over again. And I
say all the time, if a mother is thriving, then
and only then can a family in a community thrive.
And so we're at the center. I love that we
are the center. Good Lord, Yes, do you have any
(43:03):
favorite stories about your kids? Goodness? You know, I actually have.
I should have. If I'd know when you were asking this,
I would have brought it with me. Um. I had
this little thought, one line a day journal, like a
five year journal. It's like this big and I did
and I did it for like three years or like
two and a half. Oh. I I did it one
page and then I was like, I'm not doing this.
(43:23):
Three years is good? Good Lord, good on you. The
girls were two years apart, so there's a lot of
cuteness happening in three years, right, like quotes down of
like what they would say. I used it as that
more than anything. Um, and I just my daughter found it.
My ten year old found it the other day and
I was like, you know what, I might pick it
back up like seven years later and just start again
(43:44):
with it now. So it's to me, it's it's not
like the big things, it's the little tiny things that
make me so happy and make me smile. Like she
reading that she remembered that her sister's name when we
moved here, she changed from Kate to Catherine. I mean
she's seven, so like you know, you can tell how
you can tell a high school is going to be
(44:05):
for us already by that little anecdote. Um, I am
no longer Kate. I will only be called Katherine. So
I'm reading through this and apparently Claire, our eldest, used
to call her Tate. She couldn't call her Kate. Um.
And then there was another one in there that Kate
at the time. Katherine. Now, um, someone came up and
like set like an adult and was like, you know
(44:26):
what's your you know what's your name? And she's like,
She's like, my name is Kate, but you can call
me Cubby and like never ever has anyone called her
copy like she gave herself this nickname. Yeah, there's all
It's all the tiny little moments that add up over time.
And you know, I wish I had taken more video
actually when they were little, little, um, just to capture
(44:49):
all of that. Well, you were a little busy. It's
always a little busy. It's okay, it's okay. Um, two
more last questions and then we'll go, Um, how do
you believe this is? We do so many podcasts on this,
but if you have anything to add to this, great
and if not, I get it because it's too much.
How do you believe that America can change and provide
better for moms in the workspace? Oh, Katie, I got
(45:12):
a list on this one. I mean, okay, go read
the State of Motherhood study fro or hell, go read
all five of them. Okay, if you want to playbook
on what mothers need because through motherly they have told
us what they need. They need paid maternity leave. They
need rental leave in this country, like we need to
(45:33):
rental leave in this country and stop. Yes. Second, they
need affordable childcare. We need affordable childcare. Yes, yes, And
here's I learned this recently. Do you know that during
World War Two, when women had to go to work
in factories, do you know that we had government provided
(45:54):
childcare for all of the children. If you were a
working mother, you dropped your children off with these at
these beautiful locations, for all of your children. They took
your child to the doctor for you, I get the chills.
They took your child to the doctor. And when you
picked your children up at the end of the day,
they gave you a cast of role so you didn't
have to make dinner. Shut the front door, Jill, Like
(46:17):
we've done this, guys. This is fucked up. Were set
up to fail. It's fucked up. It's it's it's what
we are doing is impossible. And here's here's for you,
Katie and for your for your listeners. The millennial generation
is the first generation history and which women are more
educated than men. Okay, I read this on your site.
(46:39):
It is no longer a nice to have for women
to be in the workforce. It is an economic and
competitive and perative, which means in order for our country
to be competitive in the world, we have got to
figure out how to keep women in the workforce after
they become mothers. We have to support them or we
are going to lose as a country, as a society.
(47:02):
Like this is not a nice to have anymore, and
it's an imperative. Ok, you gonna make me cry. But
those are two totally things that by the way, regardless
of party, everyone is everyone, every single person that we mean,
it's like it is one of the few things that
everyone is aligned on this country is paid paternity leave,
like government paid supportive fraternity lead and affordable childcare. That's it.
(47:25):
That is what we need in this country. If we
did those two things, Oh oh my gosh, it would
be yeah, yeah, who who has that? Finland, Norway, Sweden.
I mean we're the last developing country. I feel like
that doesn't have paid paternity leave. But there's others that
do and have it much longer. They're smaller countries, they're
less diverse. It's harder us as big and gnarly in
(47:48):
a lot of different ways. But we can do this.
We can. We have to. It's imperative we will lose.
Women are better and smarter and more educated then men.
They have to be in the workplace. Okay, finish this
sentence and that I'm letting you go. Parenthood is Parenthood
(48:10):
is chaotic and the chaos, but like, there's so much
beauty in the chaos too. There's so much hardship, there's
so much beauty, like, but it is, it is chaotic,
there is like always, there's a lot of emotions, there's
a lot of physical needs, there's a lot of growth,
there's a lot of problems. There's a lot of food
to make and be fed, you know, like it's a lot,
(48:32):
but it's it is. It's beautiful. So like my first
thought actually it was beautiful and magical, and then I
was like, but it's not. Those are too clean of words.
It's actually chaotic and that can be beautiful too, but
it's definitely challenging and worth it. Jill, thank you so
much for coming on Katie's crib. Everybody listening, please go
(48:53):
to mother dot l Y. Jill, thank you for taking
the time to come on Katie's crib and speaking with
our listeners. It was a wonderful or. I learned a
ton of stuff that I will take for me and
you made me cry. Um. Thank you so much, it's
been so fun. Thank you guys so much for listening
(49:15):
to today's episode. I want to hear from you. Let's
chat questions, comments, concerns. Let me know. You can always
find me at Katie's Crib at Shonda land dot com.
Katie's Crib is a production of Shonda land Audio in
partnership with I heart Radio. For more podcasts from Shonda
land Audio, visit the I heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,
(49:36):
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
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