April 2, 2021 • 53 mins
Andy Hull, lead singer of Manchester Orchestra, and Kesha catch up about the supernatural aspects of music and spirituality. Andy talks about how Manchester Orchestra's new album "The Million Masks of God" was written about the experience of death. Kesha and Andy discuss his history with the church and their first meeting at Lollapalooza in 2008 which was a life changing moment for both artists.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
This record is a whole lot about the supernatural, I suppose,
and that it's it's about a death and the questioning
of what potentially happens after that. Today I welcome special
(00:26):
guest Andy from Manchester Orchestra. How are you, hi, Kesha,
how are you? I'm good? I think I'm good. It's
a debatable answer. I think I think everything. I agree. Yeah,
it's it's pretty good today. These are all right good?
(00:46):
And where are you joining us from? That are about
our studio in Atlanta. Thank you for joining us. This
is a show about really anything supernatural, but also spiritual
or unexplainable or is. The things that excite me the
most in the world are the things that are a
little intangible and yeah, absolutely things you can't quite put
(01:09):
into words. So I decided to talk about it a bunch,
even all the stuff you can't really put into words.
But I think as musicians we kind of do that. Anyways,
I totally agree. I think it's funny. When I got
the description of the show, um, it was like, you know,
alien and ghosts are you know, highly encouraged. We talked
about I'm like, well, our newest song, the chorus says,
(01:30):
ghosts and then a single from our last records, The Alien.
So do you believe in the supernatural? What's your experience
and your relationship with the supernatural? Yeah, I mean certainly,
I think that there's a lot of stuff going on
that we you know, probably can't see and sometimes can
see or feel. Um, I think there's something supernatural about music. Really,
(01:56):
I probably feel the closest to to some connection too.
Maybe it's like a purpose, ultimate purpose, or like what
I'm supposed to be here. And I'm sure you know,
being a songwriter yourself, there's there are moments where like
you really have to like hack a song, like you
gotta work on that thing for a long time. And
then there's other times where it's like I think I
(02:18):
might have just like plugged into something here that wasn't
wasn't It doesn't really belong to me, and it's in
a weird way, you know, there's no ownership, Especially when
that happens, like where I call it, like things fall
out of my face that don't belong to me exactly. Well,
and especially if you know right away that it's great,
then it's like, Okay, something just happened here, you know,
(02:41):
and I don't know if there's a difference between I
don't know if one or the other makes the other better.
What do you think, Like, do you think the songs
that come out of you like that, or do you
think they're on the same kind of level playing just
different experiences. It's kind of like, I don't know. I'm
looking at a tree right now, So one's like a
tree and ones like a cat. Both great, very different
(03:07):
and I very different like creatures. Some are just really rapid,
fire quick things that I've worked on some songs for
seven to ten years. Yeah, yeah, and there is a
nice thing about those. Not to divert too much into
the song right e side of it, but there is
a great feeling of working on something for seven to
ten years and finally getting it right and not rushing
(03:28):
that thing. Oh please divert. By the way, this podcast
is about talking about whatever. To me, spirituality is song
making songs, so that's not diverting at all. Yeah. I
agree with you. I feel um, even though it's exhausting
at times and I get exhausted doing it because I
get so into it, so like in the studio and
putting so much time and the hours into it, pushing, pushing,
(03:51):
pushing that I can really kind of like, you know,
just empty the tank. But when I'm doing it, it's
truly like I feel what I'm doing, what I'm supposed
to do, probably more so than anything else in the
entire world, any experience I've ever had. Or it's like, man,
I think I've actually found like happiness these moments creating,
you know, like pure adrenaline. I was gonna say, yeah, absolutely.
(04:14):
Jeff Tweety just wrote this book. I don't know if
you read it about like everyone should write a song.
The concept of the book is trying to teach people
who don't think that they can write songs to write
songs because it's an experience that like every human should
actually have this connection to. And I agree with that.
I'm trying to talk to my kids about that, where
it's like I don't want to force you to like
(04:35):
come into the studio or do anything, but like I
gave my daughter my old phone and took everything off
of voice memos and just let her you say, like,
here's how you want to record a song, And just
record a song, and it's linked to my eye cloud
and I'll get these I'll be somewhere in the studio
and look and I'll see, Oh, she's she's tracked something
else herself, you know, and it's in her room going,
(04:55):
you know, who was a pig in the life is good? Know,
it's all the beauty of a five year old girl.
I'm so happy that my my recordings from when I
was five were not linked to someone else's eye cloud
to listen to that's like, it's terrifying. I'm totally invading
your privacy, right I didn't realize her right now, totally.
(05:20):
I actually used one of them on our new record.
I used a couple of them. Asked her permission, of course,
but like thought it would be a really cool way
to this record is a whole lot about the supernatural,
I suppose, and that it's it's about a death and
the questioning of what potentially happens after that. And she's
telling this story um to me on the phone that
(05:41):
I recorded without her knowing. I'm recording her about the
boy who Cried Wolf, and it was this beautiful She's
got the sweet, little innocent voice, and she's talking about
the story of sort of like innocence lost and like
a mistake that you know, this little boy's making in
order to kind of have attention and this, and it
was this sort of full circle feeling for me. It's like,
man um, I love inter twining that with the art
(06:04):
that I'm making to you know, like having having those
little things be a part of it. But I agree
with you that the stuff I was making was like
on a cassette and it was me like rapping joyful
joyful from Sister Act two, horrifically embarrassing. Oh my god,
please find that so I know where it is you do. See.
I think that it's an embarrassing job. It can be
because you're burying your soul and you have to be
(06:26):
totally like in your feelings and all your emotions and
be so dramatic about it all and sometimes and believe yourself.
The other part too, it's like and and the performance
aspect of that, I totally agree it's mortifying, you know,
like when you really got to get the drone view
of what we do, it's it is, it's it's super embarrassing.
And the vulnerability, though, is the thing I think that
(06:47):
connects with people, you know the most. I find that
when I'm being my most honest and saying something that
I believe more so than even trying to make a
statement or teach to people or preach to people. I
feel like that's the thing that connects the most set
that has this kind of almost supernatural, you know, connection
with with folks. Well, I think part of the the
(07:07):
supernatural thing that's this almost like call myself like a
spiritual explorer at the moment because I have no fucking
other jobs because I can't tour, so I'm I've taken
on the role of a spiritual explorer. The thing that's
been so eye opening the past, like you know, quarantine anytime,
it's been like we're all very, very connected. We can
(07:28):
try to separate, whether it's religion or you know, what
group you're in or what thing you're into, and we
all like what bands we like or whatever it is,
but we're also connected. And I think just realizing how
connected I am not only to like the earth and
the moon and my animals and my friends, just once
you realize you see and God has such a weird baggage,
(07:51):
such a weird word, but like you see the universe
not only in yourself but in everybody you deal with.
It's helped me be a little bit more patient because
that connects and is what has made me be like, oh, wait,
we're all the same, like we're not really that yeah,
and they and we're attempting to figure out the same
things and we're all, you know, ultimately in a search.
(08:14):
Whether it's you say it in an incredibly poetic way
or just just a flat out way. I do think
it's like we're all looking for peace and connection and
um acceptance, you know, that's another big one. And seeing
each other for who you really are. I think that's
been a struggle for me in my life. I don't
(08:34):
know if it's the same on the male end of
being an artist spectrum, but it's like a female it's
just it's really weird because like you're just this being Yeah,
I can't imagine that, and I can see how that
would be that it almost feels like you're having to
do more than just the job that you you know
that you want to do, you know, and that seems brutal.
(08:55):
I hate and the very yeah, I hate in the
small areas of my career when I have to go
do something that I didn't like that was a part
of you know, that it's like, oh, it's a part
of what you do Oh, well, I really hate this.
I might have not done this if I knew this
was like a part of it, um, but I do.
I could totally understand, especially somebody you know. You and
(09:18):
I I think are about the same age, and we
met really young too, and we were like starting our
careers together. I think we both met in two thousand
and eight at LA a million lives ago. Oh my god,
that was such an important moment for my life. Is
that a really important moment for your life too? Yeah?
(09:39):
It is absolutely. That moment is a big punctuating mark
in my life. If I were to draw a graph
of my life, that would be a very very important
moment the day wild because that's that is the same
exact feeling I have. That was the first time that
like it felt like it could be real, like maybe
this is actually Oh my god. It's just got chills
(10:01):
because it was like I was like, oh, ship, like
all this manifesting and believing in myself and all that
kind of hokey bullshit that I've been telling myself since
I was little, and my mom has been telling me
and my friends and managers, and it's like all of
that is actually like manifesting into a real life experience
where people are watching me perform and I feel like
(10:22):
I'm gonna ship my fucking pants. And I was like, okay,
get it together, bitch, don't shoot your pants. And then
my mom handed me a shot of whiskey and she's like,
fucking relaxed, take this and just go. And I was like, okay,
oh I needed your mom in that moment for sure.
You know, my coping mechanism was like, well, you're really
(10:44):
inocure on stage, so just look extremely angry. Never smile,
you know. That's how we're gonna get out of this.
We always do that. Whenever there's a photographer, I'm like,
just look really pissed because you look cooler than when
you're smiling. You look like a fucking loser. So funny,
why is that when you smile, do you look like
a loser in pictures? I like, specifically try not to
(11:06):
smile in pictures because I look like a fucking dork.
It's true. I tried to do a reverse bit of
that in like two fourteen, where I maybe crack a
little smile out of pictures, like no, you just don't
look great. It just looks infinitely less cool. But then
also making the Zoolander face also cringe e it is
(11:28):
you can't win. I just I worked with um the
very lovely Paris Jackson last year on her debut album
Listen to It. I love it actually here, thank you
very much. We she was in Atlanta working on something
during the Manchester photo shoot. We were working on a
song together and someone said, well, y'all should snap the
pictures together because you got the song coming out. And
we do it, and the photographer immediately, I've ben't taking
(11:50):
photos all day, she pops in for one picture. Photographers like,
oh my gosh, she's just got it. I'm like, well,
what's she doing, you know, like, what's the deal. And
she goes, it's harrow and she you must look like
everything is dead to you. Look like you're dead inside,
Look like you're dead inside. And then you look the
coolest on camera. Damn. That's really depressing. And I'm gonna
(12:13):
fighter system by smiling and laughing as much as possible
on being a fucking embarrassing human being. Yeah, and embrace
the nerd, embrace the strange. That's it's it's more, that's
the more important part. You know. Well, Buddha's always smiling.
It's very true. It's got a Buddha right out there,
a little baby Buddha in the in the live room. Um,
(12:35):
it's always smiling, see and he looks like not a loser.
So true, very peaceful in fact, like maybe like the goal.
So I think joy is important. I'm gonna start smiling
in photos and look less serious. That is my commitment
to you, not that you asked me to make that Chile. No,
(12:56):
I'm going to make that commending back to you. And
the next time we see each other, we'll go look
at this terrible photo of both of us. Look how
much of a loser I look like. But we're being bud.
We're proud, Yes, exactly, we're proud. When was the first song?
Can I ask you a question? Yeah? Please? When was
the first song you wrote that you felt connected with people,
(13:16):
even if it was on a smaller like you were
really young, or you're playing a coffee shop or whatever
it was like, do you remember what was the song?
Is the song embarrassing now to look back? Oh? Well, yes,
I have quite an embarrassing I've written my past riddled
with embarrassment. I'm trying to figure out how to write
(13:38):
about how embarrassing it is to be in my skin suit.
But I haven't quite figured out how to do that
in a cool way because I just can't be like
I am so embarrassing, Like that's not a good song.
So that's that's exactly what I would do, just say
that exact word. But yeah, I wrote a song when
I was like thirteen about this guy I and I
(14:00):
was drunk off in like pink champagne. I'm thirteen, I've
never had a sip of champagne. I'm an idiot, And
it was like it was like a friend of the family,
and I was like, you're just It's just all very,
very embarrassing when I look back upon it, and I
think that there were kids in my class were like,
I really liked this song. I just hope no one
in the world ever hears it. Yeah, that no one
(14:23):
got a copy of it. Somehow, I was burning CDs
of my first EP a little MacBook and selling them
to people for five dollars so I could save up
to buy an iPod or something like that. Um, and
they're horrible. And it was obviously about one girl that
everyone knew at your school, and you're selling it at
(14:44):
the school school at the small school, at the small school,
and you like call this song, I can straight. I
wrote a song called Stephen about my crush who was
named Stephen. Like, no names were changed, just I reversed
the name and her name was Tor and this song
was called Iraq. We're so embarrassing. I don't know how
(15:12):
I thought I'd get away with that. At a certain point,
jig was up immediately. I didn't even pretend, at least
you who were creative about it, it's just Steven. I
didn't even like to change the pH to a V,
like fully, it's about this, It's about Steve. It's about you, dude.
We're still friends. Surprisingly, our friendship lasted that, Like that's great.
(15:37):
I still know Tori do. Yeah, we're we're yeah, we're
still good. I started at Lanta Hawks game a few
years ago. These are okay, I think because you're so
young too, It's like they're kind enough to go like,
that's okay. Is it flattering that a song written about you,
even if you like don't change the name or just
(15:58):
put the name backwards, Like, is that flattering? It's a
really great question. Have you ever had a song written
about you not that like has my name explicitly in it? Right,
trying to think, I don't think I've ever had a
song written about me. Well, I'm going to write a
song about you, and I'm gonna smile while I think
we write two smiling songs about each other. Okay, I'm
(16:19):
gonna write you a song that's my homework assignment done perfect.
I'll do the same. We'll put it at the end
of the podcast. That's Oh my god, totally ship. But
you just put out, Um, I just saw a video
you were doing, or you were doing. I just saw
a video you put out that was very on brand
for the podcast. It was like there was a ghost
(16:42):
and a child was hanging out with a ghost and
everybody freaks out, but then they think they escaped the ghost,
but the surprises that the ghost come with her and
she's really happy about it. So what's the story behind that? So,
I mean, I think that video to me, when I
read the treatment was you know, being a ad. It
kind of broke my heart. And I liked this idea
(17:03):
of well telling kind of a dueling narrative of like
kind of turning the genre on its head where there
is a little girl seeing kind of sort of terrifying
things that I think any little child or even adult,
like as the mother at the end CS is terrifying.
But she knows that it's her dad, and she feels
comfortable with this this guy, and she's stoked that he's around.
(17:26):
And the mom's life is sort of falling apart vaguely
in the background. Um, that was something we didn't want
to like really pop on too much, to make it
too much of like a sad obvious thing. But like
you know, obviously she's devastated because you know her her
husband is gone, and this little girl is is finding
peace and happiness still being with her dad. And so
(17:48):
I like the supernatural side of that thing, like how
cool would that be? That, like the haunting is a
blessing and she didn't know the difference. She's just excited
to be with her daddy. Um. And then the other
side of it is I think what I guess the metaphors,
you know, are are the people that we lose in
our lives that matters so much to us and we've
(18:10):
had so much time and experience with them. They are
still there and there are times where you can turn
to that that memory that that it's more than a memory.
It is, you know, this was all this all came
from my brother in law, Robert, who was the part
my partner in the band and um, you know co
(18:31):
songwriter guy that we've been making music together since I
was writing songs about Tory. God bless him for stick
and with me. Um since high school. Yeah, he was
like fourteen and I was sixteen when he had a
little studio in his basement and we would start making
records together. Um. But his father and he ended up
marrying my sister. So he's literally like and um yeah,
(18:55):
and so we're we're a family business. Um. And his
father was a really big influence of mine early on
with songwriting. His dad was a musician and encouraged me
at coffee shops when I was like playing at Kadoba
for twenty dollars at a burrito, you know for three
hours to you know start shopping, you know, songs up
and figure out what I'm doing as a kid. And
but as his father had a I think almost four
(19:16):
year battle with cancer and passed away right when we
were writing and making this album. Um, and it affected
all of us deeply, so many nights and just weeping
together and obviously, I started I write a lot about
what's happening around us, and so the record started to
become about that and about watching my friend, almost as
a love letter to to my best friend Robert, you know,
(19:38):
wanting to be able to fix something that I can't,
and also a way to cope with this in process,
the tragedy in my life that you know wasn't as
important a tragedy, but still heavily affected me. So it
was also this sort of the video felt like a
very a unique way to tie all of that end
(19:59):
as sort of a representation and a tribute to his dad,
to of like, man, you're still so much a part
of us. And the cover of our album actually is
the silhouette of Robert's dad walking into the afterlife where
bodies are sort of floating. WHOA, that's not Is that out? No?
The picture is that out? Don't know the picture is out.
It's like, but it's it's this big on digital. You'll
(20:23):
see it on the vinyl, you know, Um, yeah, it was.
It's kind of a cool tribute for him. That's beautiful
and I'm sorry that's really hard sounding and tragic, and
also it's something that we as people like it's I
don't know how you're supposed to process things like death
(20:46):
or just like tragedies. I don't know how to deal
with the at all, aside from writing songs about it.
That's how I deal with everything. Yeah, that's right, you know.
And Robert would say, if he's sitting here, this is
something every single person who has lived will deal with
or has dealt with. And you know, for him, he
was he found strength and now I'm finding this strength
(21:09):
in it too, of like, man, it's okay to talk
about that, and like, in fact, we should talk about
that too. And I was amazed that he wanted to
talk about it because when I was writing it, we
would have discussions. I'm like, do we never have to
bring it up ever? It can just be we can
be as you know, secretive as we want about this stuff,
and does never have to come up in interviews. And
(21:30):
he really wanted to talk about it because he felt
it was a way to help people. I don't know
if you also feel this way about songwriting and how
I feel the best when I I sort of started
to realize that maybe I'm actually in like some form
of medicine, you know, like I'm not smart enough to
be a doctor. But maybe that's what we're kind of
(21:52):
doing in a million percent believe. When I started, I
was like just like a while old Tasmanian devil on
the loose, But there was always like an intention behind
everything that was like I want to make people feel
safe and have a place to play, Like I think
it's really important for people to have a place to
(22:13):
play as adults and as animals like my cats fucking
play and bite each other all dance like. We don't
have that as humans, Like we don't have a place
to to play. So then I play an instrument and
I play with my voice, and I'll play with the guitar,
and I'll play the piano, and it's usually pretty just
like shitty, and sometimes it's really fun and funny and
sometimes it's really fucking sad. But having a place where
(22:38):
other people could come and just have that experience with me,
I realized it's so therapeutic for me to share it
with the people that are kind enough to give a
ship to listen to it. Absolutely, yeah, it is very
like it's like a very has become Like you were saying,
(23:00):
like I'm not smart enough to be a doctor. I
dropped out of school, I got my g E D.
I mixed up, where's a lot what I'm probably a
d h D. I think I'm a hypochondriact. Like we
got a lot going on over here. Yeah, but I
feel like I'm I'm matching you one for one. But
I just want people to know they're not alone in
(23:22):
all the feelings because I feel everything. So I think
if you can help one person not feel alone and
whatever they going through, like maybe a passing of a
loved one, then it is that's really helpful to know
you're not alone in some things. Life fucking weird and
hard and fun and beautiful, but we're also like existentially alone.
(23:43):
It's so nice to feel like you have some camaraderie
and companionship in all the emotions. Absolutely, And I feel
like those years the hardest years for me. I guess
during that period of time was like probably like sixteen
to twenty four when it was just like I don't
think I had more alone during that period of just like, man,
(24:04):
I don't think that I can I actually relate to anyone,
And I think that that's such a well, I'm just
my a d h D is now kicking into but
it's sort of the live in it. I live in
it all day every day. You just go there's no
judgment here, you know, when like having younger fans, I
(24:25):
always felt like that sort of got a bad connotation
for certain artists, that like that was something that you know,
was like not a good thing, And it was like, man,
when did you like music or connect to music more
than during that period of time, Like obviously I connect
to music in a way different way and maybe even
deeper way now, but maybe not, Like I had just
been something magical about that period of time that like
(24:48):
I wasn't ever thinking about what the snare drum sounded like,
for like if the lead singer was singing out a
key or any of that. Ship it's like you go
back list of your favorite or it's like, oh they
sound like Ship and they're amazing. Yeah, oh my god,
And some of the records I go back and listen
to and I'm just so judgy about, oh is that
(25:09):
a cool band or whatever? And at the time I
just liked the song. And even you're talking about your daughter,
like singing into her, into your eye cloud that you're
secretly spying on, like that is really probably so inspiring
because I almost feel like, I know I'm an adult supposedly,
(25:29):
but I feel like as much as you can tap
back into that childlike wonder of magic, of looking at
the world like that, the happier maybe and full of
excitement about everything that's going on, just like really just
enjoying and appreciating and not judging and not judging yourself
and being you're like kind of blissfully unaware of like
(25:51):
a lot of things when you're that little. I agree,
it's like you want to do the things that self
help things, the right things to get yourself in a
spot that you know you can continue, and you want
to get smarter as a musician, as songwriter and producer
and all those things. Um, but if you lose that
what you're talking about, I feel that's when it becomes
(26:12):
the most frustrating. Um, I don't producer that. No, No,
you go ahead. UM. This woman we have worked with
our last two records, Katherine Marks, this incredible woman from
Australia now in England. She is really a like she's
sort of like a magic believer about sounds, and you know,
(26:34):
she'll say stuff like the way that I had heard
a couple of records she'd worked on when we had
our first conversation. But she's going like, Andy, I want
every song to sound like we're walking through a house,
you know, and I and each song is a different
room in the house. And I was like, oh god,
like I'm so in already. And she'd say stuff like
this song needs to sound like Bees. Let's make it
(26:59):
sound like Bees. That's perfect. And you know, some people
I would tell like, I'm really excited about this, and like,
what does she mean bees? I was like, I don't
even know. I'm just excited that she is talking about
music that way, you know, totally. Oh my god, I'm
working on music room right now. I want it. I
wanted to feel like the feeling of swimming in giant
(27:20):
ocean waves. That's awesome, Like that's my goal. What is
is it? In both sort of the melody and the
lyrics and like the good and the bad and the
just how you get tossed around by this thing that
is bigger than you and you have to just learn
to float or keep your head above water at some point,
(27:42):
and at the end of the day, like it's all
so much bigger than you that you just like you
got to accept it like you're swimming in the ocean.
I mean, that's the That's that's where I land. Every
time I start to worry about not having all the answers,
it's like it's it is so much, in my opinion,
so much bigger that it's almost I mean it's it's
(28:03):
it's fun to wonder and explore like you would, you said,
a spiritual um explore like I love that. That's I
totally understand that, UM. And there's also a sense of
that like there was some great quote I read. I'm
gonna butcher it totally. But it's like, you know, you
can find um. You can find atheism immediately, um, you
(28:27):
know when you start to break it down scientifically. But
the war and where that you dig down and the
more you realize that so many things are unexplainable, like
you'll find God or the universe that whatever it is
is so apparent at the bottom of that glass, you know.
And I love that. I love thinking that way me too,
because I read that your family there's a really religious
(28:51):
past right with your Yes, yes, I would say grandfather
and father both pastors. Oh that's like hardcore. Yeah, you know,
I broke the mold. You sure did, but like you
still have a connection with the infinite consciousness of goodness
or whatever the funk people want to call it. Sounds
(29:12):
like there's that connection and that's the most important thing. Yeah. Absolutely.
You know, my my grandfather was probably more I know
it was, was more of a legalist, you know, sort
of he would yell at people in church. You know,
it's like during a period of time, um where it
was just you know, more like you're doing it wrong.
(29:33):
I would be so scared if someone tells me I'm
doing something wrong. I just infinitely cry at their faith.
He wrote a song about it because at his at
his funeral five years ago, six years ago, they played
sort of like the Greatest Hits montage of like all
of his sermons, and like he was literally like he
was just screaming five minutes. I'm like, oh God. And
(29:56):
I think that had not the screaming necessarily, but sort
of the old school Southern mentality that that they had
really pushed my dad to not be like that with us,
and was far more of a like I'm going to
be proud of you whatever you decide you want to do,
and I'm gonna love you. No matter who you decided
to be. My mother was both was also like that,
(30:16):
So I've definitely I had support in that sense. I
never felt like I was I was a bad kid
being blasphemous for not being a part of a specific church. No,
not at all. You know, even to this day, I
don't really belong to any church. Um. I I do
like my kids to a certain degree to be a
(30:38):
part of, like you know, a community in in that way,
and um, I can appreciate a lot of things that
I got from it. I could also have a pretty
good idea of what I don't want to you know,
have be a part of my my family out. Yeah,
(30:58):
A is the of the date it's released. Worked on
it for the last several years. UM. Obviously didn't expect
it to kind of come out like this, I think,
but I'm not. There's nothing really special about our situation
compared to anybody else's. But um yeah, it's just it's
been an interesting experience. You know. It's you know, when
you the usual way that you go and promote things,
(31:18):
and you can kind of you leave and you go
somewhere and then there's that time just sort of process
that and think about the things that have happened, and
there's really none of that here. It's just kind of
go go go slam together. And you know that I'm
back to dad time. And you know, are you doing
this out of your house? No? We we bought a
(31:40):
home and two thirteen and sound proofed it and renovated it,
and it's it's Manchester's home base. We run our merch
from here and record everything from here. So I think,
you know, at the end of it. Even the album
title that we just came up with, you know, it's
called the Million Masks of God. Um came from a
poem I found in like just a book of sort
of old I like books of spiritual you know, daily
(32:06):
spiritual thoughts and not like the new wave. You know,
you know Christian chickens. You don't love chicken soup for
the salt? Are you crazy? That was in every across Tennessee,
just by the way our childhood. We couldn't get away
from chicken soup for the sale, no doubt. Um. No,
I like the stuff that was written hundreds of years
(32:28):
ago by people who were still trying to figure out
the same kind of stuff, you know, the same thing.
I started the podcast where Yep, we're all just searching
for the same ship. It's right. And this guy Um.
The name of the poem is gold Leaves, and in
the poem he talks about how when he was young,
he would look for God and it would frustrate him
(32:50):
that he couldn't find God and that it was Um
and that made him angry and defiant towards God and Um.
He wanted so badly to connect to it, but the
less that he could connect to it, the more and
more he didn't believe it. And there's a line where
it says like, behold, you know, a new day is
here and and and now that I'm older and I'm
(33:13):
I've I've experienced life, I'm realizing that God is everywhere
be and he says, behold the million mass of God.
It's in the leaves on the ground, it's in the trees,
it's everywhere that you're looking is God. It's in people,
and it's you know specifically, and people that um, you
know aren't really privileged, and people who are living a
(33:34):
much harder life than you or I know about. And Um,
I was really struck by that sentiment of like, man,
I feel that way, I don't feel you know, I
think even in my earlier records, it was such a
I love hate relationship with the idea of God and
and and just sort of getting to this peaceful place
(33:55):
of like, oh, I think I can accept this, and
in fact, I think I can lean into it and
find some peace and start getting rid of some guilt.
Oh my god, why are we on the same page
about this? So hard? Sorry, keep going, I'm sorry. No,
I mean that's that's that's basically it, you know. And
so the whole concept of the record, I suppose deals
(34:19):
with that. It's it's sort of going through this really
difficult period of time that that my best friend and
brother in law was going through that I was also experiencing,
and then my own journey of realizing, you know, like
man like. The record ends with this line of i'd say,
at the very end, all this time I thought I
was right. All this time, I thought I was right.
(34:39):
It's sort of this idea of like dying and at
the very end of life. I don't think anybody, no
matter what you believe or how hard you believe it, um,
you're not going to be right about the specific thing
you think is going to happen. You know, because like
you just said, it's bigger than we could ever possibly comprehend.
And who knows, like we might straight up turn into
(35:02):
like tell a Tubbies. I don't know, like nobody knows.
I love talking about tubbies. This morning, my son was
watching Maybe We're Maybe that's maybe that's the answer. So
because I'm like kind of obsessed with I hope I'm
the cool one. I hope I'm one of the cool teletubbies.
(35:23):
I remember there's one that was really kind of a
creep one creeped me out. I forget which one. There
was a nerdy teletubby for sure, that's probably none of
them had None of them had great names. I think
that also hurt the cause, you know, it was like
a binky Winky and something like that. Of course, I'm like,
(35:44):
I've succumbti. I'm going to be binky Winky. But that's fine,
Like I just I'm like, you know what, I'm into it. Whatever.
But even if I was right about it, and we
all do turn in teletubbies, and that's like something I
was very like heavily convicted, like the conviction that we
are turning into teletubbies, and I'm gonna make a church.
We're gonna worship teletubbies and give me your money and
(36:04):
you know, confess to the Teletupia thing is fascinating. It's
it's yeah, and it's a form of like control, right
that people like want to have control over other people.
I think that's really what control, and also like community
around like see this is right, you're not we're not alone, Okay,
then there's lots of us, so we're right about it.
(36:25):
I feel like it's comforting to some people. For me,
it's just kind of like I think everybody's probably right
and wrong in all the kinds of ways. Like you
were just saying in your music, it doesn't matter if
you're right anyways, because we all have to die. Unfortunately,
we're all going to figure it out at some point.
I think the part of growing up in the church
(36:47):
that I didn't like was and I didn't really see
that because I moved to Toronto from ages seven to
fourteen and my dad ended up pastoring like a nondenominational
church with over a hundred and forty different nationalities. So
I went from like a white kid in a pretty
white Maryetta, Georgia to a place where like I was
the minority and that that church and in my school,
(37:10):
in my first school I went to was um, Like,
there were twenty six kids. I think four kids were
Chinese and there were two white kids, and it was
you after yes, and it was the greatest. Those were
an incredibly informative on who I wanted to become. And
my parents were really smart for putting us in that
(37:33):
situation because, you know, other than like really getting into
Dragon ball Z and all of the culture that those
kids had that I had no idea existed, you know,
just like, holy sh it, they have video games I've
never heard of like this. They're way cooler than me. Um.
It just made me realize the world was so much
(37:53):
bigger and that this kind of small area of the
bubble as I like to call it. I tell someone
I live in the suburbs of Atlanta, and there's very
much a bubble here of people who you know, don't
really act like anything is happening outside of the bubble
um And I hate that, And I hate when the
(38:13):
church is that bubble. I think, like, if they're the
church should be anything, It should not be the bubble.
It should be the come in right. Well, I think
sometimes the bubble is comfortable seeming. I don't know if
you had this experience, like when before quarantine happened, it
was like I was in the bubble of tour. I've
(38:33):
never cooked anything in my life ever because they've been
in It's really actually turns out not useful for end
of times, not great for quarantining purposes, Like I would
be the bottom of the fucking tender list of like
cannot cook. Can sing at you, Yeah you're gone on
(38:54):
the Oregon Trail, I'm dead. Survival of the Fittest, You're fucked.
I'm trying to keep a basil plant alive and I'm
so depressed. It's just dying in front of my eyes.
I don't want to do it. I like, I give up.
I forget the point. Oh. The bubble though that I
was living in was just like just go hard and
(39:16):
like do your job and do it well and love
your life, and parts of that are really beautiful. But
I think I was missing, like pretty much my growth
is stunted at the time I started touring, which is
really young, so I feel like if I had some
catching up to do, It's crazy. I can I can
totally relate. I don't think I hadn't this This last
(39:38):
year was the first we did sneak one socially distant showing,
so I keep the streak alive. But I had played
at least, you know, at least ten to fifteen shows
a year, if not hundreds of shows a year since
I was seventeen sixteen. You know, I'm sure you were
similar ways, like the idea of even being home for
this long and not having that outlet. How did you
(40:01):
feel when it first starting case, I felt like a
sense of relief a little bit. At the beginning, it
was like, okay, it's not this is okay that, like
the schedule has sort of been. I always loved when
school or something gets canceled. I love, yeah, I love
when somebody else cancels something. So then I'm like, I
didn't cause it, but it's canceled, So I fucking chill.
(40:23):
But it's not my fault, so I don't have to
feel guilty, but I can secretly just like kick back. Okay,
that's a little bit how I felt at the beginning.
And then I was like, in a little bit of
a Donald Trump paralysis. I think he just scared the
ship out of me and it was just like a
(40:45):
little bit with both going on. I was like, this
is weird, and then I'm starting to enjoy being a
person like nowish, But for solid like seven months, I
was like, I hate this with so much anxiety. I
don't know how to cook anything. I'm useless. What do
I do with my time? I should be entertaining entertainment? Curious?
(41:07):
Is that what it was? Like? You do you think
if you would have been able to go out and
play a show or like create something the studio, were
you writing? Like? Yeah, I write all the times. I
can't help it. It's like literally a form of just
being functional for me. I don't write songs because it's
like it's not even that I want to, it's how
(41:29):
do I cope with being alive? Yeah? Amen, totally, I
can so relate. That's exactly what it is. Yea. And
in fact, anytime you sit down and try to do that,
thing just feels so forced and strange and I get
stressed out. But then like I'll be I like wake
up at three in the morning and write a whole
song and be like, oh that was nice. Thank you?
(41:51):
Whoever did that? Thank you? Did you did you feel
peace at the beginning, and then you know, so you
said for a minute, and and of course that like
a snow like a snow day kind of feeling where
it's like, oh, it's like if you got off of
school because there was snow and you're like, oh, I
get to sleep in. It was kind of that feeling,
and then it went into like existential crises that it's
(42:17):
just you know, I live in I live inside of
an existential crisis. But then I also had me questioning
like if you have no one to entertain, like if
you don't have a show top play to a person
or people, it's kind of like if a tree falls
in the woods and no one's around to here, it
doesn't make it sound I'm like, if a pop singer
(42:38):
is has all these outfits and asshle's chaps and blow
up inflatable cats and lasers, but nobody can come to
a show, what does that mean? That's fascinating. That totally
makes sense why you would feel that way. Yeah, oh man,
um I will I didn't realize I missed the There
(43:03):
has been plenty of existential crisis happening during it, but
I think the show part of it was different for
me because I didn't really know I missed it until
I got in a room with the three other guys
and started playing, and even though there wasn't anyone there,
it was that kind of purpose thing again. I was like, oh, like,
(43:25):
this is different than me writing a song by myself,
for me sitting in a studio making something by myself,
and this is a communal thing. You know, this connection
and even if it's connection to three other people in
a room felt That's what made me realize how much
I actually missed it and how much it was fueling
a part of me that I didn't know about. You know, So,
is that totally ego, because that's I've been trying to
(43:47):
figure out, like that just all ego, that it feels
so good too sing at a person versus to no one.
I don't. I'm sure it probably is. You probably boil
it down to equal parts ego, But I also think
there's connection there. I think it's what we were talking
about of like experiencing you write a song and it's
(44:11):
experienced by a listener or experienced by a producer or
a musician in the studio. For me, that thing, it's
almost getting outside of the ego and being like you
want to make stuff with people, you want to be
around people, and you want the feeling of being with people.
It wasn't like I want to impress them that I've
you know, come up with this cool sure that exists
(44:32):
other places. But it didn't feel like that. Then, you know,
it was like, man, you guys all care enough about
this music that you want to be in this room
and work on it together. And the seed of it
came from my brain, you know, like you said, at
three in the morning, popped out of bed, had to
write it no other choice. I really like it. I
(44:53):
wonder if they do. And that thing that's that's another
sort of level of magic. People, you know, like all
putting your energy, effort and attention into one thing. I
find it to be. Really I'm always so thankful for
the people that I create with, because my brain is
(45:14):
my problem. It won't quit. I have tried just she's
her own thing, but having other people be like, Okay,
I'm gonna sit with you and your brain and take
the time to flesh out this emotional idea that to
me is really selfless. And so I'm always like, I
think that's super I'm so grateful for people that helped
(45:36):
me kind of conjure my ideas up into songs totally.
Do you have a like a small team of people
who do that. Do you have like the one you
know woman or a man that's is there with you
and you want to get something down or do you
try and switch it up each time? I work with
like a lot of people would love to work with you,
(45:57):
but also, um, yeah, I work with kind of just
anybody that I feel like we'll understand because sometimes it's
hard to articulate the feelings of what I want then
a song to make someone feel like. So I'll like
be like I want to just make people feel like this,
and I'll jump off of something and it's like you
have to understand what that means. And I think it
(46:18):
takes a special type of person to like when you said,
let's make it sound like bees like, that sounds like
a beautiful experiment in trying to figure out what the mean.
Hopefully I got my vaccine, so hopefully soon you'll get
your vaccine and then we can make music with people.
No kidding, that's been that's been the weirdest part, because
I do love the co write experience of like being
(46:41):
in a room with somebody and just there's these like
jitters of like let's make something and feel excited about
making something together. At the end of the day, it
could be six hours later, could be two, could be twelve,
it's like we did something. Oh my god. When it works,
when it actually works, when it sounds good, it feels
like you just performed a goddamn miracle. Yeah, because you did,
(47:03):
you know. I think I think that sometimes you finish
something in a studio so quickly it is a miracle.
It shouldn't happen that quick, especially if I do something
that sounds cooler than I know I am. I'm like,
whoa what that's a fucking miracle? How does't a miracle?
I just sounded so cool, it's amazing. But so that's
(47:26):
been my experience. Wait, I haven't even asked you any
of the creepy questions. Hold on, I'm supposed to ask you. Oh, okay,
I do have a question about an Australian wizard. I
was told you were you encountered an Australian wizard, and
I need to know what that means. Yeah, I can
(47:48):
understand why you would want to know what that Okay,
So I okay, a little backstory. I dropped out of
high school before my before my senior year. So my
senior year I spent it like making a record and
touring like the Nashville, Birmingham, Columbia, South Carolina, wherever the
little circle around where we were. But my school was
(48:08):
taken a trip to Australia right before that year, and
so I thought, this is a great opportunity. I could
go to Australia. And a bunch of my friends were going,
and we'll just go. And it was like one of
those missions trips where like no missions were done, it
was just he just went to Australia, and I think
I think it made the parents feel better than it
was a missions trip. Um. And we were there, and
(48:30):
I was there with Um, our original bass player, and
we were in the market and he looked like Gandalf
and Lord of the Rings was like a really it
was pretty big at the time, like the last one
I'd just come out, and so a bunch of guys
were like, let's go mess with this wizard looking you
(48:50):
know in retrospect um, not a great idea. But I've
also was taught to be like respectful to people, regardless
of who they were an elder, so you know, I
was just asking them legitimate questions. But I was certainly
skeptical talking to this guy. And my throat had been
hurting a few days before we got to this market,
and um, I asked him, you know, what do you do?
(49:13):
You know, what's your story? And we're standing there and
he says, well, I'm you know, I'm like a fortune
teller in a way, um, you know, and I'm a healer.
I was like, okay, well, I kind of understand the
fortune teller thing. I asked him, you know, like, what
can you tell me about my fortune? And of course
it was spot on, but it was also probably spot
on for every other person that asked him. Was like,
you're at a crossroads in a decision you have to
(49:34):
make in your life, which I was, you know, I
like the I was deciding if I was gonna go
back to school or try this band and um. So
I was like okay, And I was like, so, how
are you a healer? And he said, well, do you
want me to heal you? Um? And I was like yeah,
sure fully skeptical. Can he put his hand right in
front of my uh, like my face like this or
(49:57):
like right around my chest to my face right here,
and my tongue started to like go back into my
mouth and my eyes started to roll back into my
head and I started to like pass out, like I
felt almost evil in a strange way, like it felt dark,
like really really really dark. And selfishly, I'm like, oh,
(50:23):
do it to him, do it to him, And I
do it like I don't want it to me. I
don't want to do it to me, don't, yeah, exactly,
and stop it. I don't like it, um. And he
looks at at Jay, still a good friend of mine,
and Jay's laughing and just sort of going like a
you know, like whatever, and he does it, and Jay's laughing,
(50:44):
and he looks at Jay dead in the eyes and
goes on cloud your heart. And Jay's demeanor immediately changed
from like laughing and sort of making fun of this
guy to like the exact same feeling that I had,
and he almost like got lightheaded. He got lightheaded and
almost passed out, and the two of us just ran.
(51:05):
We were like, oh, funk, we gotta get out of here,
like right now. I don't know what that was. And
we both went to the back of like this little
caravan that we were all in and sat and like
for the rest of the day and still to this
day we talked about that weird experience that we had together.
Um and I actually say the line uncloud your Heart.
I say it on the new records, where of the
(51:25):
last lines on the whole record. I was literally going
to put that in one of my songs. Thanks a lot.
Everything in my brain is like, where does that come
in a song? I'm so happy you put that in
the song. It needs to be in a song. Did yeah, yeah,
uncloud my heart? Yeah? Well, and he said on cloud
your heart, and so I flipped it, you know, and
it was more of an asking of God, uncloud my heart. Oh.
(51:48):
I love that because I'll tell you what He unclouded
Jay's heart that day pretty quick. It sounds like like
supernatural ship makes me, uncloud my heart, makes me stop
acting like a douche bag, makes me like my ego
calm the funk down, makes me find everything a little
(52:08):
bit more humorous. You got to uncloud your heart. I
love that. We should end on that. That's amazing. I
love it. It's great and people can hear it on
your new record at Manchester Orchestra. Oh my god, wo oh,
I appreciate it, thank you so much. Yeah, and I'm
so excited to hear the new record and let's both
write songs. Oh god, how embarrassing the other people are. Yeah,
(52:32):
Oh my god, you could have a field day with
how embarrassing I've been. Your's gonna be so much easier
to write than mine. I have to write about you
being embarrassing. It's like, you're not embarrassing it cool. You're
very cool and talented. So embarrassing, let's go meadow with it.
You gotta go meadow with it. Specifically embarrassing. Who one
This record is a whole lot about the supernatural, I suppose,
and that it's it's about a death and the questioning
of what potentially happens after that. Today I welcome special
(00:26):
guest Andy from Manchester Orchestra. How are you, hi, Kesha,
how are you? I'm good? I think I'm good. It's
a debatable answer. I think I think everything. I agree. Yeah,
it's it's pretty good today. These are all right good?
(00:46):
And where are you joining us from? That are about
our studio in Atlanta. Thank you for joining us. This
is a show about really anything supernatural, but also spiritual
or unexplainable or is. The things that excite me the
most in the world are the things that are a
little intangible and yeah, absolutely things you can't quite put
(01:09):
into words. So I decided to talk about it a bunch,
even all the stuff you can't really put into words.
But I think as musicians we kind of do that. Anyways,
I totally agree. I think it's funny. When I got
the description of the show, um, it was like, you know,
alien and ghosts are you know, highly encouraged. We talked
about I'm like, well, our newest song, the chorus says,
(01:30):
ghosts and then a single from our last records, The Alien.
So do you believe in the supernatural? What's your experience
and your relationship with the supernatural? Yeah, I mean certainly,
I think that there's a lot of stuff going on
that we you know, probably can't see and sometimes can
see or feel. Um, I think there's something supernatural about music. Really,
(01:56):
I probably feel the closest to to some connection too.
Maybe it's like a purpose, ultimate purpose, or like what
I'm supposed to be here. And I'm sure you know,
being a songwriter yourself, there's there are moments where like
you really have to like hack a song, like you
gotta work on that thing for a long time. And
then there's other times where it's like I think I
(02:18):
might have just like plugged into something here that wasn't
wasn't It doesn't really belong to me, and it's in
a weird way, you know, there's no ownership, Especially when
that happens, like where I call it, like things fall
out of my face that don't belong to me exactly. Well,
and especially if you know right away that it's great,
then it's like, Okay, something just happened here, you know,
(02:41):
and I don't know if there's a difference between I
don't know if one or the other makes the other better.
What do you think, Like, do you think the songs
that come out of you like that, or do you
think they're on the same kind of level playing just
different experiences. It's kind of like, I don't know. I'm
looking at a tree right now, So one's like a
tree and ones like a cat. Both great, very different
(03:07):
and I very different like creatures. Some are just really rapid,
fire quick things that I've worked on some songs for
seven to ten years. Yeah, yeah, and there is a
nice thing about those. Not to divert too much into
the song right e side of it, but there is
a great feeling of working on something for seven to
ten years and finally getting it right and not rushing
(03:28):
that thing. Oh please divert. By the way, this podcast
is about talking about whatever. To me, spirituality is song
making songs, so that's not diverting at all. Yeah. I
agree with you. I feel um, even though it's exhausting
at times and I get exhausted doing it because I
get so into it, so like in the studio and
putting so much time and the hours into it, pushing, pushing,
(03:51):
pushing that I can really kind of like, you know,
just empty the tank. But when I'm doing it, it's
truly like I feel what I'm doing, what I'm supposed
to do, probably more so than anything else in the
entire world, any experience I've ever had. Or it's like, man,
I think I've actually found like happiness these moments creating,
you know, like pure adrenaline. I was gonna say, yeah, absolutely.
(04:14):
Jeff Tweety just wrote this book. I don't know if
you read it about like everyone should write a song.
The concept of the book is trying to teach people
who don't think that they can write songs to write
songs because it's an experience that like every human should
actually have this connection to. And I agree with that.
I'm trying to talk to my kids about that, where
it's like I don't want to force you to like
(04:35):
come into the studio or do anything, but like I
gave my daughter my old phone and took everything off
of voice memos and just let her you say, like,
here's how you want to record a song, And just
record a song, and it's linked to my eye cloud
and I'll get these I'll be somewhere in the studio
and look and I'll see, Oh, she's she's tracked something
else herself, you know, and it's in her room going,
(04:55):
you know, who was a pig in the life is good? Know,
it's all the beauty of a five year old girl.
I'm so happy that my my recordings from when I
was five were not linked to someone else's eye cloud
to listen to that's like, it's terrifying. I'm totally invading
your privacy, right I didn't realize her right now, totally.
(05:20):
I actually used one of them on our new record.
I used a couple of them. Asked her permission, of course,
but like thought it would be a really cool way
to this record is a whole lot about the supernatural,
I suppose, and that it's it's about a death and
the questioning of what potentially happens after that. And she's
telling this story um to me on the phone that
(05:41):
I recorded without her knowing. I'm recording her about the
boy who Cried Wolf, and it was this beautiful She's
got the sweet, little innocent voice, and she's talking about
the story of sort of like innocence lost and like
a mistake that you know, this little boy's making in
order to kind of have attention and this, and it
was this sort of full circle feeling for me. It's like,
man um, I love inter twining that with the art
(06:04):
that I'm making to you know, like having having those
little things be a part of it. But I agree
with you that the stuff I was making was like
on a cassette and it was me like rapping joyful
joyful from Sister Act two, horrifically embarrassing. Oh my god,
please find that so I know where it is you do. See.
I think that it's an embarrassing job. It can be
because you're burying your soul and you have to be
(06:26):
totally like in your feelings and all your emotions and
be so dramatic about it all and sometimes and believe yourself.
The other part too, it's like and and the performance
aspect of that, I totally agree it's mortifying, you know,
like when you really got to get the drone view
of what we do, it's it is, it's it's super embarrassing.
And the vulnerability, though, is the thing I think that
(06:47):
connects with people, you know the most. I find that
when I'm being my most honest and saying something that
I believe more so than even trying to make a
statement or teach to people or preach to people. I
feel like that's the thing that connects the most set
that has this kind of almost supernatural, you know, connection
with with folks. Well, I think part of the the
(07:07):
supernatural thing that's this almost like call myself like a
spiritual explorer at the moment because I have no fucking
other jobs because I can't tour, so I'm I've taken
on the role of a spiritual explorer. The thing that's
been so eye opening the past, like you know, quarantine anytime,
it's been like we're all very, very connected. We can
(07:28):
try to separate, whether it's religion or you know, what
group you're in or what thing you're into, and we
all like what bands we like or whatever it is,
but we're also connected. And I think just realizing how
connected I am not only to like the earth and
the moon and my animals and my friends, just once
you realize you see and God has such a weird baggage,
(07:51):
such a weird word, but like you see the universe
not only in yourself but in everybody you deal with.
It's helped me be a little bit more patient because
that connects and is what has made me be like, oh, wait,
we're all the same, like we're not really that yeah,
and they and we're attempting to figure out the same
things and we're all, you know, ultimately in a search.
(08:14):
Whether it's you say it in an incredibly poetic way
or just just a flat out way. I do think
it's like we're all looking for peace and connection and
um acceptance, you know, that's another big one. And seeing
each other for who you really are. I think that's
been a struggle for me in my life. I don't
(08:34):
know if it's the same on the male end of
being an artist spectrum, but it's like a female it's
just it's really weird because like you're just this being Yeah,
I can't imagine that, and I can see how that
would be that it almost feels like you're having to
do more than just the job that you you know
that you want to do, you know, and that seems brutal.
(08:55):
I hate and the very yeah, I hate in the
small areas of my career when I have to go
do something that I didn't like that was a part
of you know, that it's like, oh, it's a part
of what you do Oh, well, I really hate this.
I might have not done this if I knew this
was like a part of it, um, but I do.
I could totally understand, especially somebody you know. You and
(09:18):
I I think are about the same age, and we
met really young too, and we were like starting our
careers together. I think we both met in two thousand
and eight at LA a million lives ago. Oh my god,
that was such an important moment for my life. Is
that a really important moment for your life too? Yeah?
(09:39):
It is absolutely. That moment is a big punctuating mark
in my life. If I were to draw a graph
of my life, that would be a very very important
moment the day wild because that's that is the same
exact feeling I have. That was the first time that
like it felt like it could be real, like maybe
this is actually Oh my god. It's just got chills
(10:01):
because it was like I was like, oh, ship, like
all this manifesting and believing in myself and all that
kind of hokey bullshit that I've been telling myself since
I was little, and my mom has been telling me
and my friends and managers, and it's like all of
that is actually like manifesting into a real life experience
where people are watching me perform and I feel like
(10:22):
I'm gonna ship my fucking pants. And I was like, okay,
get it together, bitch, don't shoot your pants. And then
my mom handed me a shot of whiskey and she's like,
fucking relaxed, take this and just go. And I was like, okay,
oh I needed your mom in that moment for sure.
You know, my coping mechanism was like, well, you're really
(10:44):
inocure on stage, so just look extremely angry. Never smile,
you know. That's how we're gonna get out of this.
We always do that. Whenever there's a photographer, I'm like,
just look really pissed because you look cooler than when
you're smiling. You look like a fucking loser. So funny,
why is that when you smile, do you look like
a loser in pictures? I like, specifically try not to
(11:06):
smile in pictures because I look like a fucking dork.
It's true. I tried to do a reverse bit of
that in like two fourteen, where I maybe crack a
little smile out of pictures, like no, you just don't
look great. It just looks infinitely less cool. But then
also making the Zoolander face also cringe e it is
(11:28):
you can't win. I just I worked with um the
very lovely Paris Jackson last year on her debut album
Listen to It. I love it actually here, thank you
very much. We she was in Atlanta working on something
during the Manchester photo shoot. We were working on a
song together and someone said, well, y'all should snap the
pictures together because you got the song coming out. And
we do it, and the photographer immediately, I've ben't taking
(11:50):
photos all day, she pops in for one picture. Photographers like,
oh my gosh, she's just got it. I'm like, well,
what's she doing, you know, like, what's the deal. And
she goes, it's harrow and she you must look like
everything is dead to you. Look like you're dead inside,
Look like you're dead inside. And then you look the
coolest on camera. Damn. That's really depressing. And I'm gonna
(12:13):
fighter system by smiling and laughing as much as possible
on being a fucking embarrassing human being. Yeah, and embrace
the nerd, embrace the strange. That's it's it's more, that's
the more important part. You know. Well, Buddha's always smiling.
It's very true. It's got a Buddha right out there,
a little baby Buddha in the in the live room. Um,
(12:35):
it's always smiling, see and he looks like not a loser.
So true, very peaceful in fact, like maybe like the goal.
So I think joy is important. I'm gonna start smiling
in photos and look less serious. That is my commitment
to you, not that you asked me to make that Chile. No,
(12:56):
I'm going to make that commending back to you. And
the next time we see each other, we'll go look
at this terrible photo of both of us. Look how
much of a loser I look like. But we're being bud.
We're proud, Yes, exactly, we're proud. When was the first song?
Can I ask you a question? Yeah? Please? When was
the first song you wrote that you felt connected with people,
(13:16):
even if it was on a smaller like you were
really young, or you're playing a coffee shop or whatever
it was like, do you remember what was the song?
Is the song embarrassing now to look back? Oh? Well, yes,
I have quite an embarrassing I've written my past riddled
with embarrassment. I'm trying to figure out how to write
(13:38):
about how embarrassing it is to be in my skin suit.
But I haven't quite figured out how to do that
in a cool way because I just can't be like
I am so embarrassing, Like that's not a good song.
So that's that's exactly what I would do, just say
that exact word. But yeah, I wrote a song when
I was like thirteen about this guy I and I
(14:00):
was drunk off in like pink champagne. I'm thirteen, I've
never had a sip of champagne. I'm an idiot, And
it was like it was like a friend of the family,
and I was like, you're just It's just all very,
very embarrassing when I look back upon it, and I
think that there were kids in my class were like,
I really liked this song. I just hope no one
in the world ever hears it. Yeah, that no one
(14:23):
got a copy of it. Somehow, I was burning CDs
of my first EP a little MacBook and selling them
to people for five dollars so I could save up
to buy an iPod or something like that. Um, and
they're horrible. And it was obviously about one girl that
everyone knew at your school, and you're selling it at
(14:44):
the school school at the small school, at the small school,
and you like call this song, I can straight. I
wrote a song called Stephen about my crush who was
named Stephen. Like, no names were changed, just I reversed
the name and her name was Tor and this song
was called Iraq. We're so embarrassing. I don't know how
(15:12):
I thought I'd get away with that. At a certain point,
jig was up immediately. I didn't even pretend, at least
you who were creative about it, it's just Steven. I
didn't even like to change the pH to a V,
like fully, it's about this, It's about Steve. It's about you, dude.
We're still friends. Surprisingly, our friendship lasted that, Like that's great.
(15:37):
I still know Tori do. Yeah, we're we're yeah, we're
still good. I started at Lanta Hawks game a few
years ago. These are okay, I think because you're so
young too, It's like they're kind enough to go like,
that's okay. Is it flattering that a song written about you,
even if you like don't change the name or just
(15:58):
put the name backwards, Like, is that flattering? It's a
really great question. Have you ever had a song written
about you not that like has my name explicitly in it? Right,
trying to think, I don't think I've ever had a
song written about me. Well, I'm going to write a
song about you, and I'm gonna smile while I think
we write two smiling songs about each other. Okay, I'm
(16:19):
gonna write you a song that's my homework assignment done perfect.
I'll do the same. We'll put it at the end
of the podcast. That's Oh my god, totally ship. But
you just put out, Um, I just saw a video
you were doing, or you were doing. I just saw
a video you put out that was very on brand
for the podcast. It was like there was a ghost
(16:42):
and a child was hanging out with a ghost and
everybody freaks out, but then they think they escaped the ghost,
but the surprises that the ghost come with her and
she's really happy about it. So what's the story behind that? So,
I mean, I think that video to me, when I
read the treatment was you know, being a ad. It
kind of broke my heart. And I liked this idea
(17:03):
of well telling kind of a dueling narrative of like
kind of turning the genre on its head where there
is a little girl seeing kind of sort of terrifying
things that I think any little child or even adult,
like as the mother at the end CS is terrifying.
But she knows that it's her dad, and she feels
comfortable with this this guy, and she's stoked that he's around.
(17:26):
And the mom's life is sort of falling apart vaguely
in the background. Um, that was something we didn't want
to like really pop on too much, to make it
too much of like a sad obvious thing. But like
you know, obviously she's devastated because you know her her
husband is gone, and this little girl is is finding
peace and happiness still being with her dad. And so
(17:48):
I like the supernatural side of that thing, like how
cool would that be? That, like the haunting is a
blessing and she didn't know the difference. She's just excited
to be with her daddy. Um. And then the other
side of it is I think what I guess the metaphors,
you know, are are the people that we lose in
our lives that matters so much to us and we've
(18:10):
had so much time and experience with them. They are
still there and there are times where you can turn
to that that memory that that it's more than a memory.
It is, you know, this was all this all came
from my brother in law, Robert, who was the part
my partner in the band and um, you know co
(18:31):
songwriter guy that we've been making music together since I
was writing songs about Tory. God bless him for stick
and with me. Um since high school. Yeah, he was
like fourteen and I was sixteen when he had a
little studio in his basement and we would start making
records together. Um. But his father and he ended up
marrying my sister. So he's literally like and um yeah,
(18:55):
and so we're we're a family business. Um. And his
father was a really big influence of mine early on
with songwriting. His dad was a musician and encouraged me
at coffee shops when I was like playing at Kadoba
for twenty dollars at a burrito, you know for three
hours to you know start shopping, you know, songs up
and figure out what I'm doing as a kid. And
but as his father had a I think almost four
(19:16):
year battle with cancer and passed away right when we
were writing and making this album. Um, and it affected
all of us deeply, so many nights and just weeping
together and obviously, I started I write a lot about
what's happening around us, and so the record started to
become about that and about watching my friend, almost as
a love letter to to my best friend Robert, you know,
(19:38):
wanting to be able to fix something that I can't,
and also a way to cope with this in process,
the tragedy in my life that you know wasn't as
important a tragedy, but still heavily affected me. So it
was also this sort of the video felt like a
very a unique way to tie all of that end
(19:59):
as sort of a representation and a tribute to his dad,
to of like, man, you're still so much a part
of us. And the cover of our album actually is
the silhouette of Robert's dad walking into the afterlife where
bodies are sort of floating. WHOA, that's not Is that out? No?
The picture is that out? Don't know the picture is out.
It's like, but it's it's this big on digital. You'll
(20:23):
see it on the vinyl, you know, Um, yeah, it was.
It's kind of a cool tribute for him. That's beautiful
and I'm sorry that's really hard sounding and tragic, and
also it's something that we as people like it's I
don't know how you're supposed to process things like death
(20:46):
or just like tragedies. I don't know how to deal
with the at all, aside from writing songs about it.
That's how I deal with everything. Yeah, that's right, you know.
And Robert would say, if he's sitting here, this is
something every single person who has lived will deal with
or has dealt with. And you know, for him, he
was he found strength and now I'm finding this strength
(21:09):
in it too, of like, man, it's okay to talk
about that, and like, in fact, we should talk about
that too. And I was amazed that he wanted to
talk about it because when I was writing it, we
would have discussions. I'm like, do we never have to
bring it up ever? It can just be we can
be as you know, secretive as we want about this stuff,
and does never have to come up in interviews. And
(21:30):
he really wanted to talk about it because he felt
it was a way to help people. I don't know
if you also feel this way about songwriting and how
I feel the best when I I sort of started
to realize that maybe I'm actually in like some form
of medicine, you know, like I'm not smart enough to
be a doctor. But maybe that's what we're kind of
(21:52):
doing in a million percent believe. When I started, I
was like just like a while old Tasmanian devil on
the loose, But there was always like an intention behind
everything that was like I want to make people feel
safe and have a place to play, Like I think
it's really important for people to have a place to
(22:13):
play as adults and as animals like my cats fucking
play and bite each other all dance like. We don't
have that as humans, Like we don't have a place
to to play. So then I play an instrument and
I play with my voice, and I'll play with the guitar,
and I'll play the piano, and it's usually pretty just
like shitty, and sometimes it's really fun and funny and
sometimes it's really fucking sad. But having a place where
(22:38):
other people could come and just have that experience with me,
I realized it's so therapeutic for me to share it
with the people that are kind enough to give a
ship to listen to it. Absolutely, yeah, it is very
like it's like a very has become Like you were saying,
(23:00):
like I'm not smart enough to be a doctor. I
dropped out of school, I got my g E D.
I mixed up, where's a lot what I'm probably a
d h D. I think I'm a hypochondriact. Like we
got a lot going on over here. Yeah, but I
feel like I'm I'm matching you one for one. But
I just want people to know they're not alone in
(23:22):
all the feelings because I feel everything. So I think
if you can help one person not feel alone and
whatever they going through, like maybe a passing of a
loved one, then it is that's really helpful to know
you're not alone in some things. Life fucking weird and
hard and fun and beautiful, but we're also like existentially alone.
(23:43):
It's so nice to feel like you have some camaraderie
and companionship in all the emotions. Absolutely, And I feel
like those years the hardest years for me. I guess
during that period of time was like probably like sixteen
to twenty four when it was just like I don't
think I had more alone during that period of just like, man,
(24:04):
I don't think that I can I actually relate to anyone,
And I think that that's such a well, I'm just
my a d h D is now kicking into but
it's sort of the live in it. I live in
it all day every day. You just go there's no
judgment here, you know, when like having younger fans, I
(24:25):
always felt like that sort of got a bad connotation
for certain artists, that like that was something that you know,
was like not a good thing, And it was like, man,
when did you like music or connect to music more
than during that period of time, Like obviously I connect
to music in a way different way and maybe even
deeper way now, but maybe not, Like I had just
been something magical about that period of time that like
(24:48):
I wasn't ever thinking about what the snare drum sounded like,
for like if the lead singer was singing out a
key or any of that. Ship it's like you go
back list of your favorite or it's like, oh they
sound like Ship and they're amazing. Yeah, oh my god,
And some of the records I go back and listen
to and I'm just so judgy about, oh is that
(25:09):
a cool band or whatever? And at the time I
just liked the song. And even you're talking about your daughter,
like singing into her, into your eye cloud that you're
secretly spying on, like that is really probably so inspiring
because I almost feel like, I know I'm an adult supposedly,
(25:29):
but I feel like as much as you can tap
back into that childlike wonder of magic, of looking at
the world like that, the happier maybe and full of
excitement about everything that's going on, just like really just
enjoying and appreciating and not judging and not judging yourself
and being you're like kind of blissfully unaware of like
(25:51):
a lot of things when you're that little. I agree,
it's like you want to do the things that self
help things, the right things to get yourself in a
spot that you know you can continue, and you want
to get smarter as a musician, as songwriter and producer
and all those things. Um, but if you lose that
what you're talking about, I feel that's when it becomes
(26:12):
the most frustrating. Um, I don't producer that. No, No,
you go ahead. UM. This woman we have worked with
our last two records, Katherine Marks, this incredible woman from
Australia now in England. She is really a like she's
sort of like a magic believer about sounds, and you know,
(26:34):
she'll say stuff like the way that I had heard
a couple of records she'd worked on when we had
our first conversation. But she's going like, Andy, I want
every song to sound like we're walking through a house,
you know, and I and each song is a different
room in the house. And I was like, oh god,
like I'm so in already. And she'd say stuff like
this song needs to sound like Bees. Let's make it
(26:59):
sound like Bees. That's perfect. And you know, some people
I would tell like, I'm really excited about this, and like,
what does she mean bees? I was like, I don't
even know. I'm just excited that she is talking about
music that way, you know, totally. Oh my god, I'm
working on music room right now. I want it. I
wanted to feel like the feeling of swimming in giant
(27:20):
ocean waves. That's awesome, Like that's my goal. What is
is it? In both sort of the melody and the
lyrics and like the good and the bad and the
just how you get tossed around by this thing that
is bigger than you and you have to just learn
to float or keep your head above water at some point,
(27:42):
and at the end of the day, like it's all
so much bigger than you that you just like you
got to accept it like you're swimming in the ocean.
I mean, that's the That's that's where I land. Every
time I start to worry about not having all the answers,
it's like it's it is so much, in my opinion,
so much bigger that it's almost I mean it's it's
(28:03):
it's fun to wonder and explore like you would, you said,
a spiritual um explore like I love that. That's I
totally understand that, UM. And there's also a sense of
that like there was some great quote I read. I'm
gonna butcher it totally. But it's like, you know, you
can find um. You can find atheism immediately, um, you
(28:27):
know when you start to break it down scientifically. But
the war and where that you dig down and the
more you realize that so many things are unexplainable, like
you'll find God or the universe that whatever it is
is so apparent at the bottom of that glass, you know.
And I love that. I love thinking that way me too,
because I read that your family there's a really religious
(28:51):
past right with your Yes, yes, I would say grandfather
and father both pastors. Oh that's like hardcore. Yeah, you know,
I broke the mold. You sure did, but like you
still have a connection with the infinite consciousness of goodness
or whatever the funk people want to call it. Sounds
(29:12):
like there's that connection and that's the most important thing. Yeah. Absolutely.
You know, my my grandfather was probably more I know
it was, was more of a legalist, you know, sort
of he would yell at people in church. You know,
it's like during a period of time, um where it
was just you know, more like you're doing it wrong.
(29:33):
I would be so scared if someone tells me I'm
doing something wrong. I just infinitely cry at their faith.
He wrote a song about it because at his at
his funeral five years ago, six years ago, they played
sort of like the Greatest Hits montage of like all
of his sermons, and like he was literally like he
was just screaming five minutes. I'm like, oh God. And
(29:56):
I think that had not the screaming necessarily, but sort
of the old school Southern mentality that that they had
really pushed my dad to not be like that with us,
and was far more of a like I'm going to
be proud of you whatever you decide you want to do,
and I'm gonna love you. No matter who you decided
to be. My mother was both was also like that,
(30:16):
So I've definitely I had support in that sense. I
never felt like I was I was a bad kid
being blasphemous for not being a part of a specific church. No,
not at all. You know, even to this day, I
don't really belong to any church. Um. I I do
like my kids to a certain degree to be a
(30:38):
part of, like you know, a community in in that way,
and um, I can appreciate a lot of things that
I got from it. I could also have a pretty
good idea of what I don't want to you know,
have be a part of my my family out. Yeah,
(30:58):
A is the of the date it's released. Worked on
it for the last several years. UM. Obviously didn't expect
it to kind of come out like this, I think,
but I'm not. There's nothing really special about our situation
compared to anybody else's. But um yeah, it's just it's
been an interesting experience. You know. It's you know, when
you the usual way that you go and promote things,
(31:18):
and you can kind of you leave and you go
somewhere and then there's that time just sort of process
that and think about the things that have happened, and
there's really none of that here. It's just kind of
go go go slam together. And you know that I'm
back to dad time. And you know, are you doing
this out of your house? No? We we bought a
(31:40):
home and two thirteen and sound proofed it and renovated it,
and it's it's Manchester's home base. We run our merch
from here and record everything from here. So I think,
you know, at the end of it. Even the album
title that we just came up with, you know, it's
called the Million Masks of God. Um came from a
poem I found in like just a book of sort
of old I like books of spiritual you know, daily
(32:06):
spiritual thoughts and not like the new wave. You know,
you know Christian chickens. You don't love chicken soup for
the salt? Are you crazy? That was in every across Tennessee,
just by the way our childhood. We couldn't get away
from chicken soup for the sale, no doubt. Um. No,
I like the stuff that was written hundreds of years
(32:28):
ago by people who were still trying to figure out
the same kind of stuff, you know, the same thing.
I started the podcast where Yep, we're all just searching
for the same ship. It's right. And this guy Um.
The name of the poem is gold Leaves, and in
the poem he talks about how when he was young,
he would look for God and it would frustrate him
(32:50):
that he couldn't find God and that it was Um
and that made him angry and defiant towards God and Um.
He wanted so badly to connect to it, but the
less that he could connect to it, the more and
more he didn't believe it. And there's a line where
it says like, behold, you know, a new day is
here and and and now that I'm older and I'm
(33:13):
I've I've experienced life, I'm realizing that God is everywhere
be and he says, behold the million mass of God.
It's in the leaves on the ground, it's in the trees,
it's everywhere that you're looking is God. It's in people,
and it's you know specifically, and people that um, you
know aren't really privileged, and people who are living a
(33:34):
much harder life than you or I know about. And Um,
I was really struck by that sentiment of like, man,
I feel that way, I don't feel you know, I
think even in my earlier records, it was such a
I love hate relationship with the idea of God and
and and just sort of getting to this peaceful place
(33:55):
of like, oh, I think I can accept this, and
in fact, I think I can lean into it and
find some peace and start getting rid of some guilt.
Oh my god, why are we on the same page
about this? So hard? Sorry, keep going, I'm sorry. No,
I mean that's that's that's basically it, you know. And
so the whole concept of the record, I suppose deals
(34:19):
with that. It's it's sort of going through this really
difficult period of time that that my best friend and
brother in law was going through that I was also experiencing,
and then my own journey of realizing, you know, like
man like. The record ends with this line of i'd say,
at the very end, all this time I thought I
was right. All this time, I thought I was right.
(34:39):
It's sort of this idea of like dying and at
the very end of life. I don't think anybody, no
matter what you believe or how hard you believe it, um,
you're not going to be right about the specific thing
you think is going to happen. You know, because like
you just said, it's bigger than we could ever possibly comprehend.
And who knows, like we might straight up turn into
(35:02):
like tell a Tubbies. I don't know, like nobody knows.
I love talking about tubbies. This morning, my son was
watching Maybe We're Maybe that's maybe that's the answer. So
because I'm like kind of obsessed with I hope I'm
the cool one. I hope I'm one of the cool teletubbies.
(35:23):
I remember there's one that was really kind of a
creep one creeped me out. I forget which one. There
was a nerdy teletubby for sure, that's probably none of
them had None of them had great names. I think
that also hurt the cause, you know, it was like
a binky Winky and something like that. Of course, I'm like,
(35:44):
I've succumbti. I'm going to be binky Winky. But that's fine,
Like I just I'm like, you know what, I'm into it. Whatever.
But even if I was right about it, and we
all do turn in teletubbies, and that's like something I
was very like heavily convicted, like the conviction that we
are turning into teletubbies, and I'm gonna make a church.
We're gonna worship teletubbies and give me your money and
(36:04):
you know, confess to the Teletupia thing is fascinating. It's
it's yeah, and it's a form of like control, right
that people like want to have control over other people.
I think that's really what control, and also like community
around like see this is right, you're not we're not alone, Okay,
then there's lots of us, so we're right about it.
(36:25):
I feel like it's comforting to some people. For me,
it's just kind of like I think everybody's probably right
and wrong in all the kinds of ways. Like you
were just saying in your music, it doesn't matter if
you're right anyways, because we all have to die. Unfortunately,
we're all going to figure it out at some point.
I think the part of growing up in the church
(36:47):
that I didn't like was and I didn't really see
that because I moved to Toronto from ages seven to
fourteen and my dad ended up pastoring like a nondenominational
church with over a hundred and forty different nationalities. So
I went from like a white kid in a pretty
white Maryetta, Georgia to a place where like I was
the minority and that that church and in my school,
(37:10):
in my first school I went to was um, Like,
there were twenty six kids. I think four kids were
Chinese and there were two white kids, and it was
you after yes, and it was the greatest. Those were
an incredibly informative on who I wanted to become. And
my parents were really smart for putting us in that
(37:33):
situation because, you know, other than like really getting into
Dragon ball Z and all of the culture that those
kids had that I had no idea existed, you know,
just like, holy sh it, they have video games I've
never heard of like this. They're way cooler than me. Um.
It just made me realize the world was so much
(37:53):
bigger and that this kind of small area of the
bubble as I like to call it. I tell someone
I live in the suburbs of Atlanta, and there's very
much a bubble here of people who you know, don't
really act like anything is happening outside of the bubble
um And I hate that, And I hate when the
(38:13):
church is that bubble. I think, like, if they're the
church should be anything, It should not be the bubble.
It should be the come in right. Well, I think
sometimes the bubble is comfortable seeming. I don't know if
you had this experience, like when before quarantine happened, it
was like I was in the bubble of tour. I've
(38:33):
never cooked anything in my life ever because they've been
in It's really actually turns out not useful for end
of times, not great for quarantining purposes, Like I would
be the bottom of the fucking tender list of like
cannot cook. Can sing at you, Yeah you're gone on
(38:54):
the Oregon Trail, I'm dead. Survival of the Fittest, You're fucked.
I'm trying to keep a basil plant alive and I'm
so depressed. It's just dying in front of my eyes.
I don't want to do it. I like, I give up.
I forget the point. Oh. The bubble though that I
was living in was just like just go hard and
(39:16):
like do your job and do it well and love
your life, and parts of that are really beautiful. But
I think I was missing, like pretty much my growth
is stunted at the time I started touring, which is
really young, so I feel like if I had some
catching up to do, It's crazy. I can I can
totally relate. I don't think I hadn't this This last
(39:38):
year was the first we did sneak one socially distant showing,
so I keep the streak alive. But I had played
at least, you know, at least ten to fifteen shows
a year, if not hundreds of shows a year since
I was seventeen sixteen. You know, I'm sure you were
similar ways, like the idea of even being home for
this long and not having that outlet. How did you
(40:01):
feel when it first starting case, I felt like a
sense of relief a little bit. At the beginning, it
was like, okay, it's not this is okay that, like
the schedule has sort of been. I always loved when
school or something gets canceled. I love, yeah, I love
when somebody else cancels something. So then I'm like, I
didn't cause it, but it's canceled, So I fucking chill.
(40:23):
But it's not my fault, so I don't have to
feel guilty, but I can secretly just like kick back. Okay,
that's a little bit how I felt at the beginning.
And then I was like, in a little bit of
a Donald Trump paralysis. I think he just scared the
ship out of me and it was just like a
(40:45):
little bit with both going on. I was like, this
is weird, and then I'm starting to enjoy being a
person like nowish, But for solid like seven months, I
was like, I hate this with so much anxiety. I
don't know how to cook anything. I'm useless. What do
I do with my time? I should be entertaining entertainment? Curious?
(41:07):
Is that what it was? Like? You do you think
if you would have been able to go out and
play a show or like create something the studio, were
you writing? Like? Yeah, I write all the times. I
can't help it. It's like literally a form of just
being functional for me. I don't write songs because it's
like it's not even that I want to, it's how
(41:29):
do I cope with being alive? Yeah? Amen, totally, I
can so relate. That's exactly what it is. Yea. And
in fact, anytime you sit down and try to do that,
thing just feels so forced and strange and I get
stressed out. But then like I'll be I like wake
up at three in the morning and write a whole
song and be like, oh that was nice. Thank you?
(41:51):
Whoever did that? Thank you? Did you did you feel
peace at the beginning, and then you know, so you
said for a minute, and and of course that like
a snow like a snow day kind of feeling where
it's like, oh, it's like if you got off of
school because there was snow and you're like, oh, I
get to sleep in. It was kind of that feeling,
and then it went into like existential crises that it's
(42:17):
just you know, I live in I live inside of
an existential crisis. But then I also had me questioning
like if you have no one to entertain, like if
you don't have a show top play to a person
or people, it's kind of like if a tree falls
in the woods and no one's around to here, it
doesn't make it sound I'm like, if a pop singer
(42:38):
is has all these outfits and asshle's chaps and blow
up inflatable cats and lasers, but nobody can come to
a show, what does that mean? That's fascinating. That totally
makes sense why you would feel that way. Yeah, oh man,
um I will I didn't realize I missed the There
(43:03):
has been plenty of existential crisis happening during it, but
I think the show part of it was different for
me because I didn't really know I missed it until
I got in a room with the three other guys
and started playing, and even though there wasn't anyone there,
it was that kind of purpose thing again. I was like, oh, like,
(43:25):
this is different than me writing a song by myself,
for me sitting in a studio making something by myself,
and this is a communal thing. You know, this connection
and even if it's connection to three other people in
a room felt That's what made me realize how much
I actually missed it and how much it was fueling
a part of me that I didn't know about. You know, So,
is that totally ego, because that's I've been trying to
(43:47):
figure out, like that just all ego, that it feels
so good too sing at a person versus to no one.
I don't. I'm sure it probably is. You probably boil
it down to equal parts ego, But I also think
there's connection there. I think it's what we were talking
about of like experiencing you write a song and it's
(44:11):
experienced by a listener or experienced by a producer or
a musician in the studio. For me, that thing, it's
almost getting outside of the ego and being like you
want to make stuff with people, you want to be
around people, and you want the feeling of being with people.
It wasn't like I want to impress them that I've
you know, come up with this cool sure that exists
(44:32):
other places. But it didn't feel like that. Then, you know,
it was like, man, you guys all care enough about
this music that you want to be in this room
and work on it together. And the seed of it
came from my brain, you know, like you said, at
three in the morning, popped out of bed, had to
write it no other choice. I really like it. I
(44:53):
wonder if they do. And that thing that's that's another
sort of level of magic. People, you know, like all
putting your energy, effort and attention into one thing. I
find it to be. Really I'm always so thankful for
the people that I create with, because my brain is
(45:14):
my problem. It won't quit. I have tried just she's
her own thing, but having other people be like, Okay,
I'm gonna sit with you and your brain and take
the time to flesh out this emotional idea that to
me is really selfless. And so I'm always like, I
think that's super I'm so grateful for people that helped
(45:36):
me kind of conjure my ideas up into songs totally.
Do you have a like a small team of people
who do that. Do you have like the one you
know woman or a man that's is there with you
and you want to get something down or do you
try and switch it up each time? I work with
like a lot of people would love to work with you,
(45:57):
but also, um, yeah, I work with kind of just
anybody that I feel like we'll understand because sometimes it's
hard to articulate the feelings of what I want then
a song to make someone feel like. So I'll like
be like I want to just make people feel like this,
and I'll jump off of something and it's like you
have to understand what that means. And I think it
(46:18):
takes a special type of person to like when you said,
let's make it sound like bees like, that sounds like
a beautiful experiment in trying to figure out what the mean.
Hopefully I got my vaccine, so hopefully soon you'll get
your vaccine and then we can make music with people.
No kidding, that's been that's been the weirdest part, because
I do love the co write experience of like being
(46:41):
in a room with somebody and just there's these like
jitters of like let's make something and feel excited about
making something together. At the end of the day, it
could be six hours later, could be two, could be twelve,
it's like we did something. Oh my god. When it works,
when it actually works, when it sounds good, it feels
like you just performed a goddamn miracle. Yeah, because you did,
(47:03):
you know. I think I think that sometimes you finish
something in a studio so quickly it is a miracle.
It shouldn't happen that quick, especially if I do something
that sounds cooler than I know I am. I'm like,
whoa what that's a fucking miracle? How does't a miracle?
I just sounded so cool, it's amazing. But so that's
(47:26):
been my experience. Wait, I haven't even asked you any
of the creepy questions. Hold on, I'm supposed to ask you. Oh, okay,
I do have a question about an Australian wizard. I
was told you were you encountered an Australian wizard, and
I need to know what that means. Yeah, I can
(47:48):
understand why you would want to know what that Okay,
So I okay, a little backstory. I dropped out of
high school before my before my senior year. So my
senior year I spent it like making a record and
touring like the Nashville, Birmingham, Columbia, South Carolina, wherever the
little circle around where we were. But my school was
(48:08):
taken a trip to Australia right before that year, and
so I thought, this is a great opportunity. I could
go to Australia. And a bunch of my friends were going,
and we'll just go. And it was like one of
those missions trips where like no missions were done, it
was just he just went to Australia, and I think
I think it made the parents feel better than it
was a missions trip. Um. And we were there, and
(48:30):
I was there with Um, our original bass player, and
we were in the market and he looked like Gandalf
and Lord of the Rings was like a really it
was pretty big at the time, like the last one
I'd just come out, and so a bunch of guys
were like, let's go mess with this wizard looking you
(48:50):
know in retrospect um, not a great idea. But I've
also was taught to be like respectful to people, regardless
of who they were an elder, so you know, I
was just asking them legitimate questions. But I was certainly
skeptical talking to this guy. And my throat had been
hurting a few days before we got to this market,
and um, I asked him, you know, what do you do?
(49:13):
You know, what's your story? And we're standing there and
he says, well, I'm you know, I'm like a fortune
teller in a way, um, you know, and I'm a healer.
I was like, okay, well, I kind of understand the
fortune teller thing. I asked him, you know, like, what
can you tell me about my fortune? And of course
it was spot on, but it was also probably spot
on for every other person that asked him. Was like,
you're at a crossroads in a decision you have to
(49:34):
make in your life, which I was, you know, I
like the I was deciding if I was gonna go
back to school or try this band and um. So
I was like okay, And I was like, so, how
are you a healer? And he said, well, do you
want me to heal you? Um? And I was like yeah,
sure fully skeptical. Can he put his hand right in
front of my uh, like my face like this or
(49:57):
like right around my chest to my face right here,
and my tongue started to like go back into my
mouth and my eyes started to roll back into my
head and I started to like pass out, like I
felt almost evil in a strange way, like it felt dark,
like really really really dark. And selfishly, I'm like, oh,
(50:23):
do it to him, do it to him, And I
do it like I don't want it to me. I
don't want to do it to me, don't, yeah, exactly,
and stop it. I don't like it, um. And he
looks at at Jay, still a good friend of mine,
and Jay's laughing and just sort of going like a
you know, like whatever, and he does it, and Jay's laughing,
(50:44):
and he looks at Jay dead in the eyes and
goes on cloud your heart. And Jay's demeanor immediately changed
from like laughing and sort of making fun of this
guy to like the exact same feeling that I had,
and he almost like got lightheaded. He got lightheaded and
almost passed out, and the two of us just ran.
(51:05):
We were like, oh, funk, we gotta get out of here,
like right now. I don't know what that was. And
we both went to the back of like this little
caravan that we were all in and sat and like
for the rest of the day and still to this
day we talked about that weird experience that we had together.
Um and I actually say the line uncloud your Heart.
I say it on the new records, where of the
(51:25):
last lines on the whole record. I was literally going
to put that in one of my songs. Thanks a lot.
Everything in my brain is like, where does that come
in a song? I'm so happy you put that in
the song. It needs to be in a song. Did yeah, yeah,
uncloud my heart? Yeah? Well, and he said on cloud
your heart, and so I flipped it, you know, and
it was more of an asking of God, uncloud my heart. Oh.
(51:48):
I love that because I'll tell you what He unclouded
Jay's heart that day pretty quick. It sounds like like
supernatural ship makes me, uncloud my heart, makes me stop
acting like a douche bag, makes me like my ego
calm the funk down, makes me find everything a little
(52:08):
bit more humorous. You got to uncloud your heart. I
love that. We should end on that. That's amazing. I
love it. It's great and people can hear it on
your new record at Manchester Orchestra. Oh my god, wo oh,
I appreciate it, thank you so much. Yeah, and I'm
so excited to hear the new record and let's both
write songs. Oh god, how embarrassing the other people are. Yeah,
(52:32):
Oh my god, you could have a field day with
how embarrassing I've been. Your's gonna be so much easier
to write than mine. I have to write about you
being embarrassing. It's like, you're not embarrassing it cool. You're
very cool and talented. So embarrassing, let's go meadow with it.
You gotta go meadow with it. Specifically embarrassing. Who one
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