September 26, 2025 • 49 mins
When Texas passed its six-week abortion ban in 2021 and Roe v. Wade was overturned, some local abortion clinics considered moving to the neighboring state of New Mexico to grant abortion and female care access to women from both states. However, some residents in New Mexico opposed it. Now, Texas has passed a law further restricting access to abortion by targeting abortion pills, and its measures are also affecting eastern New Mexico.
In this episode, we travel to New Mexico to meet Latinas and Latinos who have mobilized to protect abortion access there, while others are trying to revive an obscure law from the 19th-century to stop clinics from opening.
This story from 2024 recently won a Webby Award.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
I'm Lisa and Akazawa join me on season two of
Stars and Stars with Lisa, where I sit down with
some of the most exciting stars of our time to
find out what their birth chart reveals about their life's purpose,
their relationships, and their challenges. Winner of the Signal Award
for Most Inspirational Podcast, Stars and Stars will help you
make sense of today's complicated times even if you're an
(00:27):
astrology skeptic. You can listen to Stars and Stars with
Lisa wherever you get your podcasts. Don't forget to follow
the show so you never miss an episode.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Dear listener. Here at Latino USA, we've been covering how
abortion access has become more and more restricted in the
United States, and in particular, how the state of Texas
is playing a leading role in the anti abortion movement.
Just early this month, Texas lawmakers passed a law that
(01:03):
will allow citizens to sue anyone producing, distributing, or helping
a pregnant woman access abortion pills in any way. This
means people can sue doctors, they can sue activists, but
they could also sue a family member or just a
friend who helped a woman to get pills, and they
(01:26):
can get fines of up to one hundred thousand dollars
in some cases. Now, what is happening in Texas is
spilling over the neighboring state of New Mexico, which, unlike Texas,
is led by Democrats. So today we're going to bring
back our reporting from twenty twenty four about how the
(01:46):
Texas abortion laws are shaking up small towns in eastern
New Mexico. By the way, we recently won a Webby
Award for this reporting. We are so proud of it.
And stay two all the way to the end of
the show for an exciting update about one of our
protagonists that you're going to meet. So all right, here
(02:07):
we go with the spillover's older.
Speaker 3 (02:11):
I think this part of town is close to the tracks.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
Today I'm in eastern New Mexico with Latino USA senior
producer Marta Martinez, and we just arrived to a town
called Clovis.
Speaker 3 (02:26):
It's probably the older town, but it's cute.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
This is which is less than ten minutes away from
the Texas border. So we're in New Mexico but a
stone's throw from Texas.
Speaker 3 (02:38):
There is a welcome sign that says welcome to Clovis.
A community for family.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
And then a huge cross and a large replica of
the Ten Commandments. And we're only eight miles from the
Texas border. So even though New Mexico is a blue state,
this part of New Mexico is actually kind of red.
Speaker 4 (03:03):
It's not kind of red, it's very red.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
Yeah, And seeing the Ten Commandments is probably like the
clearest sign of what kind of a time you're arriving
to here in Clovis. Marta and I are in this
part of New Mexico to report on an issue that
has put this remote region of the country into the spotlight.
Abortion access.
Speaker 3 (03:27):
All you can see around here are these endless plains
where they grow peanuts and corn. It's a landscape that
looks a lot more similar to Texas than New Mexico. Actually,
and it's not only the landscape that's similar, it's also
the politics. In the last presidential election, about seventy percent
(03:47):
of people in this region voted for Donald Trump.
Speaker 4 (03:51):
There are sixty six.
Speaker 3 (03:53):
Churches here in Clovis, and it's a town of less
than fifty thousand people, and nearly half of its students
are Latino Latina, latinx Latina, or as they often say here, Hispanic.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
Just past that Christian welcome sign, we drive by a
yellow church with a big white cross, and we see
another sign that reads abortion is cold blooded murder. So
you might be wondering what's going on here because New
Mexico is blue. It's a democratic state that in fact
protects abortion in its state laws, and that central contradiction
(04:33):
is exactly why we are here now. Martha, You like me,
have been reporting on women and reproductive rights for many
years now, so why don't you give us the headline
about just what's happening in eastern New Mexico.
Speaker 3 (04:47):
New Mexico is actually a very rural state. So yeah,
the big cities like Albuquerque, Santa Fe, Las Cruces, they
are democratic, but the rural regions, especially here in the
east side of state, are a lot more conservative and religious.
So that means there are more people who are against abortion.
(05:08):
But we also need to put this into context, Maria,
because a lot has happened in the last three years
when it comes to reproductive rights in the United States.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
Yes, Marta, a lot has changed in terms of abortion.
Speaker 3 (05:21):
In twenty twenty one, Texas passed Senate Bill eight, known
as SB eight, which is one of the strictest abortion
laws in the whole.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
Country, and what that meant on the ground was that
a lot of women's clinics had to close. In fact,
Whole Woman's Health is one of the providers that was
directly affected by SB eight in Texas, and we spoke
with Amy Hagstrom, she's the CEO and founder.
Speaker 5 (05:48):
When sbaight went into effect in September of twenty twenty one,
it was devastating.
Speaker 3 (05:55):
So when they had to close their Texas clinics, Whole
Woman's Health and other abortion providers saw eastern New Mexico
as the best place to establish their quote unquote frontline
to keep providing services to people living in states where
abortion is banned, especially in the south of the country.
Speaker 2 (06:16):
And that strategy made sense matterdam at least on paper. Right,
let's open clinics in a state that strongly protects abortion,
a state like New Mexico. But let's also open clinics
in a border region that is right next to Texas
so that people don't have to travel so far. And
on that list of locations for a new clinic was Clovis, which.
Speaker 6 (06:36):
Is where we are right.
Speaker 5 (06:37):
Now, primarily with proximity and part of what we were
looking at in those border communities was one will our
patients feel safe? And two will our staff and our
providers feel safe?
Speaker 2 (06:50):
But it turns out that some neighbors in eastern New
Mexico were not so welcoming to this idea.
Speaker 6 (07:01):
From Flutro media.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
It's Latino Usa II Marino Rosa. Today the spillover we
look at how the abortion ban in Texas is mobilizing
Latinos and Latinas in eastern New Mexico.
Speaker 6 (07:20):
Since the fall of Roe v.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
Wade a little over two years ago, fourteen states have
banned abortions and another eight have passed laws restricting them,
especially in the south and in the midwest of the country.
This new reality has turned New Mexico into a hub
for people who are looking to end their pregnancies. And
check out this important piece of data. New Mexico is
(07:45):
the state where the number of abortions has grown the
most over the last three years. Abortions went from less
than five thousand total in twenty nineteen to more than
twenty thousand in three So here in eastern New Mexico,
the issue of abortion has sparked tensions and it's mobilized
(08:08):
Latinos and very specifically Latinas to work for or against
abortion access. Today, producer Marta Martinez and I are going
to introduce you to some of these new activists. Our
piece is a collaboration with whyyse the Pulse. And to
(08:30):
start off, we're going to meet Dina Ortega.
Speaker 7 (08:34):
Hi, how are you nice to finally meetcha Sorry y'all
had to come in such a cold day.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
Dina had a lot of energy, right Martha.
Speaker 3 (08:43):
Yeah, she's this very smiley, very energetic, thirty seven year
old woman. She wears these gold rimmed glasses, and I
think what is very important for her is this small
cross that she wears on her neck.
Speaker 7 (08:56):
I teach you through bat my church and we're having
a fun so I have the flyers everywhere.
Speaker 8 (09:02):
Now.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
Dina is not from Clovis, where we started the piece, right,
She's from a town that's pretty close, right.
Speaker 3 (09:08):
Yeah, Dina lives in Portalis. It's about thirty minutes south
of Clovis and again less than twenty minutes from the
Texas border.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
And then we pulled up to Dina's house, which was
a grayish blue mobile home and it was the only
one around here that has a ramp instead of stairs
to get in the reason why they have a ramp
is because Dina lives with her eighteen year old daughter Sarah,
also her cat Spark. But Sarah is in a wheelchair,
so that's why the ramp.
Speaker 4 (09:36):
But this is my house, it's so cute.
Speaker 6 (09:39):
Nice now.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
Dina was only nineteen when she had her baby girl, Sarah.
Speaker 7 (09:45):
Honestly, I was just young and stupid. There's no excuse.
I never really had that birth control talk with my mom.
It was always, if you have sex, you're.
Speaker 4 (09:53):
Going to hell.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
Dina was already three months in when she took the
pregnancy test and it ca back positive.
Speaker 6 (10:01):
But you never thought of having an abortion.
Speaker 7 (10:04):
It was ready too late.
Speaker 6 (10:05):
Would you have had if you had found out earlier?
I know that's hard to say.
Speaker 9 (10:10):
Now, but.
Speaker 7 (10:14):
I don't know. Back then, it wasn't something we talked about.
Something even new you could get, so I wouldn't even
have known like where to go, what to do, who
to call. I mean, I was scared out of my
mind to tell my mom, much less ask her what
to do next.
Speaker 4 (10:33):
What happened when you told your momof.
Speaker 7 (10:38):
I got in trouble? It was awful. I know, I
broke my mom's heart.
Speaker 6 (10:43):
Did she support you?
Speaker 7 (10:44):
Yeah. If I didn't have my parents and my aunt
and uncle, I don't know what I would have done.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
Dina's daughter was born with spina bifida, which means the
spinal cord doesn't form properly.
Speaker 7 (11:00):
Daughter was sicker than sick. She only has one kidney.
She's had over thirteen surgeries on her feet.
Speaker 2 (11:06):
On her back, so Sarah needed a lot of care.
Speaker 7 (11:09):
I don't want to do that again.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
After two years of focusing just on raising her daughter
and only twenty one years old at the time, Dina
started dating and she got into a new relationship. It
was great at first, but then he started abusing drugs
and alcohol and he got more controlling.
Speaker 7 (11:29):
I wasn't allowed to wear makeup. I wasn't allowed to
have a lock pass on my phone. I wasn't allowed
to be on birth control.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
I remember Dina telling us that she was really shocked
when she came under this kind of control of her partner.
Speaker 3 (11:44):
She definitely didn't expect that, and that was the one
thing that Dina knew she was never going to comply with.
There was no way that she was going to have
another child after what she went through with Sarah, and
she also knew that she would be forever trapped with
her abuse partner, So she started taking birth control shots
every three months or so, and she did it in secret.
(12:06):
She would drive to Clovis, which is the town where
we started the story, and that's where the only women's
clinic in the region was at the time.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
But Dina is very Catholic, right Martha.
Speaker 3 (12:18):
Yeah, and she didn't see taking birth control as a
contradiction with her Catholic faith.
Speaker 7 (12:24):
I really really don't think God would have wanted me
to bring a baby into that situation. My ex was
an addict and he was abusive. Why should a child
have to live through that.
Speaker 3 (12:35):
Dina stayed with her partner for thirteen years during the pandemic.
She finally told him to leave.
Speaker 2 (12:42):
Is that why you understand and take the possibility of
choosing an abortion?
Speaker 6 (12:47):
Is that why you take it so serious?
Speaker 7 (12:49):
Because I know what it's like to feel trapped somewhere.
I would go to bed every single night and I
would just pray to God, God, I just want to
be happy. God, I just want to be happy. You
should never, as a woman, as a human being, ever
have to think.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
That the summer when Roe v. Wade was overturned. That's
when Dina started joining pro choice demonstrations in Portales and
in Clovis.
Speaker 7 (13:24):
I remember in high school I used to always say like,
I would love to live in like the sixties, the seventies,
so I could do the protests, do the marches. And
then thirty years later, here I am doing it. You're
not supposed to go backwards, You're supposed to go forward.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
And she became the vice chair of the local Democratic Party.
It turns out that in Dina's family, their allegiance to
the Democratic Party runs almost as deep as their Catholic faith.
But then Marta Sbaight happened.
Speaker 3 (13:52):
Yeah, that's the very restrictive abortion law that Texas passed
only six weeks of pregnancy, and Dina was at work
at the local hospital that day.
Speaker 4 (14:03):
She remembers it very well.
Speaker 7 (14:05):
I just started crying at my desk and I was
just like, oh my gosh. And I told my coworkers,
we're going back to like the nineteen hundreds. What are
they going to take from us next?
Speaker 3 (14:20):
Dina knew that the wave of consequences from Sbaight would
also impact.
Speaker 4 (14:24):
Her community in eastern New Mexico.
Speaker 3 (14:27):
But she didn't expect that part of it would involve
trying to bring back laws from the nineteenth century.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
And coming up on Latino USA, how those nineteenth century
laws ended up waking up Latina activists in eastern New Mexico.
Stay with us, no devayas, Hey, we're back. Before the break,
(15:07):
we learned how the passing of an anti abortion law
in Texas ended up sparking tensions in eastern New Mexico.
So first there's Dina Ortega, who we just met, a
devout Catholic who is also a strong believer in a
woman's right to choose.
Speaker 3 (15:24):
And now we meet Victoria Robledo at a coffee shop
in Clovis.
Speaker 7 (15:30):
Hello, nice for me, late.
Speaker 3 (15:34):
That's the town that's less than ten minutes away from
the Texas border that we mentioned at the top of
the show, where there's this welcome sign with this big
cross and the Ten Commandments.
Speaker 10 (15:44):
This is Blackwater Coffee, my favorite coffee shop and arguably
the best place in Clovis.
Speaker 3 (15:50):
Victoria moved to Clovis in twenty twenty one because her
husband got a job at Canon Air Force Base, which
is nearby Clovis. And this is also the cafe where
her activism group, which is called Eastern New Mexico Rising,
was founded, and they meet regularly here. They started organizing
around reproductive rights after Rob Waite was overturned.
Speaker 10 (16:12):
Can I just get an ice macho late?
Speaker 9 (16:14):
A large ice matcho late?
Speaker 2 (16:16):
And Victoria? I mean, she's really got a big personality.
Speaker 3 (16:21):
Yeah. Victoria is twenty five years old and she's already
the mother of two boys and also a personal trainer
and an activist. She's also from Corpus Christi, Texas, like
the singer Selina, and she likes to point out, so
moving over.
Speaker 10 (16:36):
Here, I was like, this is not that different, you know,
even though the state aligns with my values, like the
town doesn't. So I feel like I'm just in Texas
all over again.
Speaker 3 (16:44):
Victoria became a mother when she was very young, just
like the Nowtega, the other Latina we met earlier in
the show, and it had a deep impact on her
political views.
Speaker 10 (16:54):
I had them at nineteen and so just like the
after effects of having him postpartum depression and not getting
the resources that I needed, it was like, okay, this
is my issue. This is the one that was what
really spearheaded it.
Speaker 2 (17:11):
In early twenty twenty two, Victoria and her husband celebrated
a pregnancy, but it ended soon in miscarriage. Then she
got pregnant again, and now she was worried about how
the overturn of Roe v. Wade might impact her access
to healthcare during her pregnancy, and the news began to
(17:32):
hit much closer to home.
Speaker 10 (17:34):
And then I see a Facebook post in April about
women's medical center closings, and I'm like, are you kidding me?
Speaker 2 (17:42):
Do you remember what that felt like when you were like,
my god, there's no healthcare around for me.
Speaker 9 (17:47):
Yeah, it was really upsetting.
Speaker 10 (17:49):
I was frustrated because a part of me was like,
why is this the only place here?
Speaker 4 (17:54):
Like why is there not more ob jo.
Speaker 10 (17:56):
Enns, because like hearing about the Obbs, like your rights
might be at stake, but here, also, your women's center
is closed, so good luck.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
Like super personal, Like the politics of the Supreme Court
suddenly are like in your small town.
Speaker 3 (18:09):
Yes, And that led Victoria to get politically involved in
her new hometown in a way she didn't expect, and
things got more tense very fast.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
So, dear listener, so far, we've heard from newly minted
Latina activists who are now out defending a woman's right
to choose in their small towns in eastern New Mexico.
But of course, Latinos, like everybody else in this country
in terms of politics, are very complex. So other people
have been mobilized now more than ever to rally against
(18:52):
abortion access. And we came upon this too in eastern
New Mexico.
Speaker 11 (18:57):
Is this as first und to Clovis?
Speaker 5 (18:58):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (18:59):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
We met up with Pastor Eric Welsh at Grace Covenant
Reformed Church in Clovis, and that's the same town where
Victoria the activist lives.
Speaker 4 (19:09):
I have no idea, it's yes, yes.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
His mother's family is from Mexico. His father is Italian
and Irish, but he grew up with his familia on
his mother's side and so he identifies as Hispanic.
Speaker 11 (19:25):
It's a very matriarchal family. My grandmother and all my
aunts and my mom, they're all very strong women.
Speaker 2 (19:33):
In the summer of twenty twenty two, Eric Hurd that
an abortion clinic was considering his hometown as a new location.
Speaker 11 (19:43):
And they had named Clovis specifically, and it was like, Oh,
we need to do something.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
About this, because it was like, oh, I live in
New Mexico, which is a blue state. Yes, they're going
to protect abortion, and I don't want to see this
happen in my life.
Speaker 9 (20:00):
That's right.
Speaker 2 (20:00):
And in terms of Eric, he actually had a bit
of a difficult life, right. He got married at nineteen,
started drinking and taking drugs, became a father at twenty,
but says he never considered abortion, even though he was
an atheist at the time.
Speaker 11 (20:15):
My mom had me at fifteen, Like fifteen, raising me
is brutal, and my dad wasn't the greatest dude, and
she always busted her rear end for me and my brother,
and I didn't really have the justification. If she could
do it, then I could do it.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
Things didn't go well. He kept on drinking, he was
addicted to opioids, and then he went to rehab, even
though he was pretty skeptical about the religious part of
the program. But then one day, he says, a pastor
came and shared the Gospel with him.
Speaker 6 (20:51):
So what happened in that moment.
Speaker 11 (20:54):
I can't explain it. It was just I heard him.
The light switch went off, and I knew. I won't
say that I trusted it just quite yet, but I
knew that there was something different with me.
Speaker 2 (21:09):
And he says, since then he's remained sober.
Speaker 11 (21:13):
When I realized that God is real, I began reading
the scriptures. Where my addiction was the insatiable desire, it
now became learning about this God. And this topic of
abortion is one that is dealt with clearly in the scriptures.
Speaker 2 (21:31):
But actually, Marta, the question of abortion in the scriptures
is in fact not so clear right.
Speaker 3 (21:38):
Actually, the Bible doesn't mention abortion explicitly anywhere. Most anti
abortion Christians focus on its mentions of the value of
life in the womb and the idea of life beginning
a conception.
Speaker 11 (21:50):
This really is about loving women, it really is. It's
not about controlling people.
Speaker 2 (21:56):
But then Marta, Eric actually jumped in because he wanted
to control things that were happening in his town.
Speaker 3 (22:02):
Yeah, So when he heard that potentially an abortion provider
might come to his hometown in Clovis, that's when he
devoted all of his efforts to stop it. And he
looked across the New Mexico border.
Speaker 11 (22:15):
I contacted one of the guys who played an instrumental
role in the Heartbeat.
Speaker 4 (22:20):
Bill for Texas.
Speaker 3 (22:21):
That's SB eight, the abortion band in Texas that we've
talked about before, and Eric is referring to pastor Mark
Lee Dixon, the founder of the anti abortion group Right
to Life of East Texas.
Speaker 12 (22:33):
I'm against abortion period, the taking of an innocent life
made in the image of God.
Speaker 6 (22:41):
It shouldn't be.
Speaker 3 (22:43):
And then the other person he reached out to is
lawyer Jonathan F. Mitchell, who is also the former Texas
Solicitor General and one of Donald Trump's personal lawyers.
Speaker 13 (22:54):
If you are opposed to abortion, I think it should
be outlaw and criminalized. Then the question becomes how you
have an effective prohibition on abortion?
Speaker 2 (23:02):
Okay, So to be clear, Dixon and Mitchell are basically
the forces behind the abortion ban in the state of Texas,
but now they're operating in eastern New Mexico. And so
after Eric, the pastor in Clovis, insisted for a bit,
Mark Lee Dixon, the Texas pastor, comes to Clovis and
(23:25):
they organize a public meeting in September of twenty twenty
two located at Eric's church. And it turns out that
a lot of people show.
Speaker 11 (23:34):
Up on a normal church service, we have like fifty
people that show up here. There was a camera crew
over on that side by the exit and we literally
had every seat packed.
Speaker 3 (23:45):
And that's where Mark Lee Dixon shared this strategy that
he's been leading to fight abortion.
Speaker 4 (23:51):
At the local level.
Speaker 3 (23:53):
And this is what they call the Sanctuary Cities of
the Unborn.
Speaker 2 (24:02):
Okay, so they have a national policy and it's called
the Sanctuary Cities of the Unborn.
Speaker 3 (24:10):
Yeah, this is a very well planned strategy from these
anti abortion leaders to actually bond abortion at the local level,
especially in states where abortion is protected, like New Mexico.
Speaker 6 (24:22):
So how do they plan on doing that?
Speaker 3 (24:25):
So what they did is they drafted this ordinance, which
is like a rule that's made by a local government,
and it's based on a very obscure and pretty much
outdated law from the nineteenth century. That's called the Comstock Act,
which is basically an anti obscenity law.
Speaker 2 (24:43):
All Right, so let's take a moment because a lot
has happened here and now we're talking about nineteenth century
laws that are being used in eastern New Mexico to
restrict abortion. So that what exactly does the Comstock Act
have to do with abortion?
Speaker 3 (25:05):
It gets a little bit technical, but it's very important
and we are going to hear a lot more about
the Comstock Act in the coming months. So basically, the
Comstock Act bans the shipping or receiving of any tools, drugs,
or other supplies that can be used in an abortion.
For most of the twentieth century, this was really not enforced,
(25:29):
and in many cases it's seen even as unconstitutional.
Speaker 2 (25:33):
Right because over the years, actually more federal laws were
passed in order to protect abortion access. And now these
nineteenth century laws are being revived. So how does this work? Exactly?
Speaker 3 (25:47):
Yeah, that's what these local ordinances are trying to do. Basically,
they would require a potential clinic that wanted to perform
abortions they would have to apply for a business license,
and in order to get a license, they would have
to confirm that they will quote unquote comply with federal law,
(26:08):
which it's like a trap because it means that they
won't violate the Comstock Act.
Speaker 2 (26:14):
Which basically sounds like a roundabout way to effectively ban.
Speaker 3 (26:18):
Abortion exactly, because as we said, how are you going
to get a license where you say you need to
comply with the Comstock Act if what you're trying to
do is to perform an abortion, and then you can't
get any supplies in town. But even though it all
sounds like it doesn't make a lot of sense, there
are actually sixty nine towns Maria across the country that
(26:41):
have already passed comstock coordinances. Most of them are in Texas,
but there are also cities in states like Nebraska, Iowa,
and Illinois. We actually reached out to Mark Lee Dixon
and Jonathan Mitchell to ask them about the sanctuary cities
of the unborn movement, and Dixon the Texas passed or
responded via email saying that he has assisted almost eighty
(27:04):
cities and counties across seven states in trying to pass
very similar ordinances to quote, protect the health and welfare
of communities. Dixon added that his motivation to go to
other states outside of Texas is that people have been
asking for his help and that quote, the rights of
(27:25):
unborn children must be protected everywhere. So this is the
proposal that Mark Lee Dixon brought to Clovis, and they
asked the residents to put pressure on their representatives to
pass it.
Speaker 2 (27:39):
Now, this is in fact part of a highly coordinated
national strategy from these anti abortion leaders. So on the
local level, people like Vigdordia, the activists right, they were
really taken by surprise, like, how was it now that
their little town in eastern New Mexico became a kind
(27:59):
of ground zero of the front lines of the anti
abortion fight.
Speaker 10 (28:03):
I didn't even know what an ordnance was. I didn't
even know they were called commissioners. I knew nothing.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
Victoria did worry that this was now about taking away
access to women's healthcare in her community, and that would
impact her because it turns out she was now pregnant again.
Speaker 10 (28:22):
It's not just about abortion, because abortion is only part
of reproductive healthcare as a whole. It is ridiculous because
it's not a moral issue. I mean, it's just healthcare.
Speaker 2 (28:34):
And then everything moved really fast, right Marda.
Speaker 3 (28:38):
Yes, two months after Pastor Eric Welsh organized this meeting
at his church, they were already setting a vote in
the Clovis City Commission to consider the comstock ordinance. And
that was November third, twenty twenty two. And Victoria thought
it was not random that this was moving so quickly.
Speaker 10 (28:59):
People don't be attention to local politics. So you can
get this done fast without anyone noticing, then you're good.
And Clovis was the first place in New Mexico for
them to try this on.
Speaker 4 (29:11):
There was a lot of expectation in the community. On
the day of the vote, good evening everyone. Mayor Morris
addressed the busy room.
Speaker 13 (29:18):
We'll begin the meeting in the normal fashion with a
prayer and then we'll honor our flag. So if you
would please stand with me.
Speaker 3 (29:25):
So the mayor allowed for five people to speak in
favor of the ordinance and five people to speak against it,
and one of the people who spoke in favor was
Pastor Eric Welsh.
Speaker 11 (29:36):
Why do we think that the answer to this question
is going to be found in a governor, is going
to be found in an ally at the state level.
The answer to this problem is found in God alone.
This is either right or it is wrong. Which side
do you fall on? If you call yourself a Christian?
Please please vote yes on this.
Speaker 13 (29:58):
Thank you.
Speaker 3 (30:01):
And a few minutes later it was Victoria Robleto who
took the microphone.
Speaker 10 (30:05):
I am a district or a constituent of district too pregnant.
Speaker 3 (30:09):
Obviously Victoria was eight months pregnant and she was wearing
this black dress with her belly showing under a red blazer.
Speaker 10 (30:16):
The city cannot be a city for the unborn, when
pregnant women like myself can't get the timely care they need.
I'm doing less than a month with no appointment scheduled
this week. It took me longer to grow this child
than for y'all to consider stripping away my rights tonight.
So please, for the sake of our community, I ask
from emotion to table Ordnance twenty one to eighty four.
Speaker 9 (30:38):
Thank you.
Speaker 3 (30:39):
What Victoria was asking is to table the ordinance, which
means to put the decision on hold.
Speaker 2 (30:46):
And then Mark Lee Dixon, the Texas pastor who co
wrote the ordinance, he was there too, and he even
spoke at the meeting, which was surprising because the testimonies
were supposed to be from the community.
Speaker 12 (30:59):
Right Life Texas has no borders because people from East
Texas are coming to New Mexico for abortions.
Speaker 2 (31:07):
It was clear in his speech that for him, this
local ordinance was part of something much bigger.
Speaker 12 (31:13):
You're going to send a message tonight to all the
media here, to all of New Mexico, to the United
States of America. Is Clovis ready to stand for life?
Speaker 4 (31:25):
We asked Peak Doria about this outside influence.
Speaker 10 (31:29):
Oh, it was the worst. The idea was not spurred
from local support. The idea came from Texas and was
planted here.
Speaker 3 (31:38):
I'm wondering if you felt like your town was in
a way being manipulated. Yes, and we asked the same
to Eric Welsh, but he felt the manipulation did not
come from the outside.
Speaker 11 (31:51):
I felt that our town was being manipulated by our government.
I think there was a lot of fear. This was
something that they desperately did not want to have to
deal with.
Speaker 13 (31:59):
I'll call the vote Comission, please vote.
Speaker 3 (32:01):
It was a nail biting moment for Victoria and the
Eastern New Mexican Rising team.
Speaker 9 (32:06):
So we're sitting.
Speaker 10 (32:06):
Here and there's a big screen right there, and we're
just all looking at it, like holding on to each other,
holding onto our seats.
Speaker 4 (32:15):
A few seconds later, the vote is out on the
screen by.
Speaker 13 (32:19):
Vote of seven in favor and want to pose the
motion to table carries.
Speaker 2 (32:24):
The Commission decides, in fact, to table the decision about
the ordinance, which was a win for Victoria and a
takedown of Pastor Eric Welsh.
Speaker 11 (32:34):
I was upset.
Speaker 6 (32:36):
I was very upset about that.
Speaker 2 (32:38):
Finally, some people started applauding about the tabling of the decision,
and Victoria was among those who were celebrating this.
Speaker 9 (32:46):
We all started falling.
Speaker 10 (32:48):
I don't even remember the noises that were being made.
It was just like so crazy.
Speaker 2 (32:52):
It was an unexpected victory in a town that is
majority Republican.
Speaker 10 (32:57):
Meanwhile, we're like, we just saved our health. It was
like David and Goliath, which is ironic considering the circumstances.
Speaker 4 (33:10):
But victorious joy wouldn't last long.
Speaker 2 (33:13):
And that's coming up on Latino USA because a wave
of comstock ordinances gets pasted in eastern New Mexico. Feeling
a blow to pro choice Latinas there, stay with us, Yes, hey,
(33:45):
we're back, Producer Marta Martinez and I are reporting in New.
Speaker 6 (33:50):
Mexico in Clovis, New Mexico.
Speaker 2 (33:54):
The decision to pass this ordinance was tabled, but anti
abortion activists from our state then when after another eastern
New Mexico town it's called Hobbes, So Marda. Where is
Hobbes and what happened there?
Speaker 3 (34:11):
So Hobbs is about two hours south of Clovis, and
it's also over sixty percent Latino or Hispanic as they
usually say here. On November seventh, twenty twenty two, that's
just four days after Clovis decided to postpone their decision,
Hobbs voted on a very similar anti abortion ordinance.
Speaker 2 (34:32):
So I will ask for a motion to approve Ordinance
number eleven forty.
Speaker 6 (34:37):
Please vote.
Speaker 3 (34:38):
And the city commission in Hobbes, which is formed by
six men, passed the comstock ordinance right away.
Speaker 6 (34:45):
Most passion a study.
Speaker 2 (34:48):
And then in January of twenty twenty three, only two
months after Clovis had tabled their decision about the ordinance,
the Clovis Commissioners voted on it once again.
Speaker 13 (35:01):
By a vote of seven in favor and one abstention.
The motion is.
Speaker 2 (35:05):
Carried and this time the ordinance passed. Sstor Eric Welch,
who had brought the ordinance here, was in the room
and he was celebrating.
Speaker 7 (35:17):
I was very excited about that.
Speaker 11 (35:19):
We made a stance, and any abortion clinic that wanted
to come into clothes knew that they're gonna have to
fight to be here. That we're not just going to
roll over and say, oh, well, you know state law.
They're actually going to have a fight on their hands,
and that's what we wanted.
Speaker 2 (35:35):
So remember Victoria Robedo, the activist from this area. She
had just given birth. She was watching all of this
online and she was impacted because there was only one
Latina commissioner who voted for this ordinance, and she's a Democrat.
And this is what that commissioner said. Her name is
(35:57):
Helen Cassos. If anybody think that they can do a
better job than any of us sitting up here, they
need to run for election. And this changed everything for Victoria.
Speaker 9 (36:09):
I was like, no, this is not okay.
Speaker 10 (36:14):
A Hispanic woman who was a registered Democrat and then
vote for this, No, okay, that's fine.
Speaker 9 (36:23):
Then I'm going to take your seat. And so I
was like, I'm going to run for office.
Speaker 2 (36:36):
The move to pass these ordinances doesn't stop there.
Speaker 6 (36:40):
It actually continues.
Speaker 3 (36:43):
Just a few days later, another comstock ordinance passed. This
time it was in Roosevelt County, which is where Dina
Ortega lives. That's the Catholic Latina that we met earlier
in the show.
Speaker 7 (36:53):
There was just so many people, it was so packed.
It's like so intense, and the people against abortion are
talking and they have just as much power and emotion
in their voice as we did.
Speaker 3 (37:05):
And there was no surprise in this vote either. The
ordinance got passed by four votes in favor and one against.
Speaker 7 (37:14):
I remember I walked out of that meeting and I
called my mom as soon as I got out, and
I told her, Mom, I'm going to become a politician.
You feel that rush? And I said, Mom, what are
these women? These girls are going to do? Because someone's
got a fight, Someone's got to be the backbone of
this town.
Speaker 4 (37:33):
What about twenty twenty six, I'll be city council.
Speaker 2 (37:46):
So you have this wave of anti abortion ordinances taking
over eastern New Mexico. But at the same time, in
twenty twenty three, Whole Woman's Health, the abortion provider that
we heard from earlier in the show, they made a
decision about where they wanted to open their first clinic
in New Mexico.
Speaker 3 (38:06):
Yes, they were considering Clovis or hops, but they finally
opened the clinic in Albuquerque. Ammy Hackstrom, the founder of
Whole Woman's Health, says that ninety five percent of their
patients come from Texas now.
Speaker 5 (38:20):
And I think in a community like Albuquerque, it's big
enough that we can blend in that our patients may
not be surveiled in the same kind of way that
they might be in a small border community, but I
think those kinds of communities are really targeted by this movement.
Speaker 2 (38:38):
And that movement is again the Sanctuary Cities of the Unborn,
led by Texas pastor Mark Lee Dixon and Texas lawyer
Jonathan Mitchell. Because rural conservative border towns like Clovis near
states where abortion is banned are perfect locations for their strategy.
(39:01):
Tensions around abortion are already high, and it's easier to
stir fear about the possibility of an abortion clinic opening there,
and so people get riled up.
Speaker 4 (39:12):
That's right, Maria.
Speaker 3 (39:13):
And they've done it in eastern New Mexico, as we
already saw. They also showed up in West Wendover, Nevada,
next to the border with Utah, and also in Danville, Illinois,
next to Indiana, where abortion is also a law. And
I've read several analysis from legal experts that say that
the conservative strategy is to push for these states that
(39:35):
protect abortion to sue the towns that have passed comstock ordinances.
The end game, these legal experts say, is that at
some point one of these cases will make it up
to the Supreme Court and maybe even lead to a
national abortion band. And this is something Amy Haxtrom has
(39:58):
seen before.
Speaker 5 (40:00):
I have said anti abortion strategies. You know, it starts
in Texas, doesn't stay in Texas. And I meant that
about the Roe v. Wade case, the Holven's Healthy Jackson,
the Sbaight case.
Speaker 6 (40:10):
I mean, these are.
Speaker 5 (40:10):
All cases that started in Texas that have affected people
all across the country.
Speaker 2 (40:15):
Because there's a conservative majority in the Supreme Court, there
is a real chance that the anti abortion movement could
get another outcome in their favor, like what we saw
with the reversal of Roe v.
Speaker 4 (40:28):
Wade and Martley Dixon.
Speaker 3 (40:30):
The Texas pastor was also quite blunt about their final
goal when we asked him about this. In his email,
he said that the final goal for him and his
movement is the end of abortion in all fifty states,
and that the Comstock Act is for them a means
(40:51):
to that end. And Maria Dixon also said that he
never intended to provoke a lawsuit against the ordinances, but
that he's not afraid of these ordinances ending up.
Speaker 4 (41:02):
Before the Supreme Court of the United.
Speaker 3 (41:04):
States, and he adds quote such a challenge would very
well lead to the end of abortion in America.
Speaker 4 (41:12):
As we know it.
Speaker 3 (41:13):
If that were to happen, I do not see that
being a bad thing for America.
Speaker 2 (41:20):
So this really is a much bigger issue than a
local ordinance that is based on an obscure law that
is passed in a small rural town.
Speaker 6 (41:29):
The play is big.
Speaker 5 (41:32):
We have to pay attention to what they're doing because
they've had a lot of success sort of rebranding a
lot of things that initially sound like absolute nonsense, and
then they introduce them over and over and over again.
In their diligence with that messaging can oftentimes make something
that started sounding extreme somehow normalized.
Speaker 2 (42:04):
It is a Saturday afternoon and we are back in Portales,
New Mexico, with Dina or Taga and her family from Ortegaville,
and they are all at Catholic church for regular four
pm Mass.
Speaker 7 (42:20):
We are at Saint Helen's Catholic Church. This is like
a second home to me.
Speaker 2 (42:25):
As Dina talks about her daughter, Sarah.
Speaker 7 (42:27):
She's a reader, she's an elector.
Speaker 2 (42:29):
Dina's mother parks in front of the church.
Speaker 7 (42:32):
Let me go help with the wheel chair, Give me
just a second.
Speaker 2 (42:35):
Dina helps her daughter get out of the car. Sarah
is a freshman now at Eastern New Mexico University in Portales.
Next to Dina is her mother, Cindy Ortega, and I
asked Cindy about her daughter's activism. What do you think
about the fact that she's outspoken, specifically on the question
(42:55):
of reproductive rights abortion.
Speaker 3 (42:58):
No, Dina knows that I'm not for abortion, but who
am I to judge?
Speaker 4 (43:05):
You know, that's between them and their god.
Speaker 2 (43:07):
Dina's daughter Sarah, went into the church, so we joined her. Inside.
Mass is about to start, so we are whispering, but
I had to ask Sarah about her mother, Dina, and
about her activism for women's right to choose.
Speaker 8 (43:24):
I think it's really good just to show from women's rights,
coming from a woman, I think it's good to get
herself out there and show what she stands for.
Speaker 2 (43:32):
Then Sarah tells me she's already following in her mother's footsteps.
Speaker 6 (43:37):
What do you say to your little girl, cousin.
Speaker 8 (43:38):
Well, you got to stand up for yourself. You kind
of watch for yourself in any moment because you never
know what can happen. But you got to just be
a woman and do things that you know that you
could do.
Speaker 2 (43:50):
With the support of her family, Dina is firm in
her plans to run for city council in Portales in
twenty twenty six. Okay, Marda, as we wrap up, just
bring us up to date on what's happened with those
(44:12):
Comstock ordinances since twenty twenty three.
Speaker 3 (44:15):
So the Comstock ordinances that were passed in eastern New
Mexico are now in illegal limbo, so to say, and
it's unclear whether they will ever come into effect. New
Mexico Attorney General Raul Torres filed a petition with the
state's Supreme Court to avoid the ordinances. He says that
the ordinances overstabbed their local power by trying to enforce
(44:38):
federal laws, and he also says that they violate New
Mexico's Constitution and.
Speaker 4 (44:44):
Bill of Rights, which do protect abortion.
Speaker 3 (44:49):
In December of twenty twenty three, the New Mexico Supreme
Court held a hearing on the Comstock ordinances. Victoria Robledo,
the activist, traveled all the way to sud Fate to
be in the courtroom that day.
Speaker 4 (45:02):
And she didn't go alone.
Speaker 3 (45:04):
She brought her baby Silas, with whom she was pregnant
when she first spoke at the Clovis meeting.
Speaker 10 (45:12):
He was a hit among the capitol, the security guards,
the legislators. It was very easy to get people to
talk to you when you have a baby's drafting your chest.
Speaker 3 (45:21):
Victoria and her husband recently purchased a new home hearing Clovis.
They've decided to raise their two children here in this community.
Speaker 10 (45:30):
You don't want to close every door you see, You
know that, right, No, no, no, no, no, no no.
Speaker 2 (45:40):
Victoria did end up running for city council last March.
What she enjoyed the most was knocking on doors and
listening to people from her community, people who looked just
like her.
Speaker 10 (45:52):
And that was something that I had constantly heard, like, oh,
it was anywhere from what is the city Commission? To
I pay taxes and nothing gets done in my neighborhood
and we would be in a disadvantaged neighborhood.
Speaker 2 (46:05):
Vittoria didn't win a seat in the city council, but
she did get about a third of the vote.
Speaker 10 (46:11):
I was disappointed, but at the same time, I felt
very hopeful because like, those numbers looked a lot better
than I had thought they would. I may not be
the best person for this, but you know, we're still
going to keep doing it because if not now, then when,
And if not me, then who.
Speaker 9 (46:33):
No one's going to save us. We got to do
it ourselves, and so gotta keep going.
Speaker 2 (46:47):
We reported this story in twenty twenty four and since then, well,
we have some updates for you. The New Mexico Supreme
Court has indeed struck down the comstock ordinances that were
passed in eastern New Mexico because they violate state law. Also,
Dina Ortega, the Catholic woman who's also pro choice, recently
(47:12):
announced that she is indeed running for city council in
her hometown of Portaes. The election will take place in November,
and dear listener, don't miss our next episode, dropping on Sunday.
We're going to continue looking into the issue of abortion.
This time we're going to take you to a Salvador,
(47:34):
the country that has one of the strictest abortion bands
in the world. The Spillover was reported by Marta Martinez
(48:10):
and myself. It was produced by Marta and edited by
Mitre Bonshahi. It was mixed by Stephanie Lebau. Fact checking
for this episode by Monica Morales Garcia. Fernando Echavari is
our managing editor. The Latino USA team also includes Rosanna Guire,
Julia Caruso, Jessica Ellis, Renaldo Leanoz Junior, Andrea Lopez, Gruzsado,
(48:34):
Luis Luna, Joni mar Marquez, Julieta Martinez, JJ Carumin, Adriana
Rodriguez and Nancy Trujuido Benni, Lei Ramirez and I are
executive producers and I'm your host Marigu Posa. Latino USA
is part of Iheart's Mike Undura podcast network. Executive producers
that iHeart are Leogomez and Arlene Santana. Join us again
(48:56):
on our next episode. In the meantime, you can find
us on social media. I'll see you there. And dear listener,
you know what I recommend. Joining food Doudo Plus. You'll
be able to listen to all the episodes without ads. Also,
food doo Plus gets you bonus episodes, special virtual events,
and some cheese made behind the scenes. And you'll be
(49:18):
supporting futuro Media, which you love. So girasias aestel approxima
chao Yes.
Speaker 7 (49:27):
Funding for Latino USA is coverage of a culture of
health is made possible in part by a grant from
the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation. Latino USA is made possible
in part by the Levi Strauss Foundation outfitting movements and
leaders fighting for a more just and abundant world, and
Skyline Foundation
I'm Lisa and Akazawa join me on season two of
Stars and Stars with Lisa, where I sit down with
some of the most exciting stars of our time to
find out what their birth chart reveals about their life's purpose,
their relationships, and their challenges. Winner of the Signal Award
for Most Inspirational Podcast, Stars and Stars will help you
make sense of today's complicated times even if you're an
(00:27):
astrology skeptic. You can listen to Stars and Stars with
Lisa wherever you get your podcasts. Don't forget to follow
the show so you never miss an episode.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Dear listener. Here at Latino USA, we've been covering how
abortion access has become more and more restricted in the
United States, and in particular, how the state of Texas
is playing a leading role in the anti abortion movement.
Just early this month, Texas lawmakers passed a law that
(01:03):
will allow citizens to sue anyone producing, distributing, or helping
a pregnant woman access abortion pills in any way. This
means people can sue doctors, they can sue activists, but
they could also sue a family member or just a
friend who helped a woman to get pills, and they
(01:26):
can get fines of up to one hundred thousand dollars
in some cases. Now, what is happening in Texas is
spilling over the neighboring state of New Mexico, which, unlike Texas,
is led by Democrats. So today we're going to bring
back our reporting from twenty twenty four about how the
(01:46):
Texas abortion laws are shaking up small towns in eastern
New Mexico. By the way, we recently won a Webby
Award for this reporting. We are so proud of it.
And stay two all the way to the end of
the show for an exciting update about one of our
protagonists that you're going to meet. So all right, here
(02:07):
we go with the spillover's older.
Speaker 3 (02:11):
I think this part of town is close to the tracks.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
Today I'm in eastern New Mexico with Latino USA senior
producer Marta Martinez, and we just arrived to a town
called Clovis.
Speaker 3 (02:26):
It's probably the older town, but it's cute.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
This is which is less than ten minutes away from
the Texas border. So we're in New Mexico but a
stone's throw from Texas.
Speaker 3 (02:38):
There is a welcome sign that says welcome to Clovis.
A community for family.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
And then a huge cross and a large replica of
the Ten Commandments. And we're only eight miles from the
Texas border. So even though New Mexico is a blue state,
this part of New Mexico is actually kind of red.
Speaker 4 (03:03):
It's not kind of red, it's very red.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
Yeah, And seeing the Ten Commandments is probably like the
clearest sign of what kind of a time you're arriving
to here in Clovis. Marta and I are in this
part of New Mexico to report on an issue that
has put this remote region of the country into the spotlight.
Abortion access.
Speaker 3 (03:27):
All you can see around here are these endless plains
where they grow peanuts and corn. It's a landscape that
looks a lot more similar to Texas than New Mexico. Actually,
and it's not only the landscape that's similar, it's also
the politics. In the last presidential election, about seventy percent
(03:47):
of people in this region voted for Donald Trump.
Speaker 4 (03:51):
There are sixty six.
Speaker 3 (03:53):
Churches here in Clovis, and it's a town of less
than fifty thousand people, and nearly half of its students
are Latino Latina, latinx Latina, or as they often say here, Hispanic.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
Just past that Christian welcome sign, we drive by a
yellow church with a big white cross, and we see
another sign that reads abortion is cold blooded murder. So
you might be wondering what's going on here because New
Mexico is blue. It's a democratic state that in fact
protects abortion in its state laws, and that central contradiction
(04:33):
is exactly why we are here now. Martha, You like me,
have been reporting on women and reproductive rights for many
years now, so why don't you give us the headline
about just what's happening in eastern New Mexico.
Speaker 3 (04:47):
New Mexico is actually a very rural state. So yeah,
the big cities like Albuquerque, Santa Fe, Las Cruces, they
are democratic, but the rural regions, especially here in the
east side of state, are a lot more conservative and religious.
So that means there are more people who are against abortion.
(05:08):
But we also need to put this into context, Maria,
because a lot has happened in the last three years
when it comes to reproductive rights in the United States.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
Yes, Marta, a lot has changed in terms of abortion.
Speaker 3 (05:21):
In twenty twenty one, Texas passed Senate Bill eight, known
as SB eight, which is one of the strictest abortion
laws in the whole.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
Country, and what that meant on the ground was that
a lot of women's clinics had to close. In fact,
Whole Woman's Health is one of the providers that was
directly affected by SB eight in Texas, and we spoke
with Amy Hagstrom, she's the CEO and founder.
Speaker 5 (05:48):
When sbaight went into effect in September of twenty twenty one,
it was devastating.
Speaker 3 (05:55):
So when they had to close their Texas clinics, Whole
Woman's Health and other abortion providers saw eastern New Mexico
as the best place to establish their quote unquote frontline
to keep providing services to people living in states where
abortion is banned, especially in the south of the country.
Speaker 2 (06:16):
And that strategy made sense matterdam at least on paper. Right,
let's open clinics in a state that strongly protects abortion,
a state like New Mexico. But let's also open clinics
in a border region that is right next to Texas
so that people don't have to travel so far. And
on that list of locations for a new clinic was Clovis, which.
Speaker 6 (06:36):
Is where we are right.
Speaker 5 (06:37):
Now, primarily with proximity and part of what we were
looking at in those border communities was one will our
patients feel safe? And two will our staff and our
providers feel safe?
Speaker 2 (06:50):
But it turns out that some neighbors in eastern New
Mexico were not so welcoming to this idea.
Speaker 6 (07:01):
From Flutro media.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
It's Latino Usa II Marino Rosa. Today the spillover we
look at how the abortion ban in Texas is mobilizing
Latinos and Latinas in eastern New Mexico.
Speaker 6 (07:20):
Since the fall of Roe v.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
Wade a little over two years ago, fourteen states have
banned abortions and another eight have passed laws restricting them,
especially in the south and in the midwest of the country.
This new reality has turned New Mexico into a hub
for people who are looking to end their pregnancies. And
check out this important piece of data. New Mexico is
(07:45):
the state where the number of abortions has grown the
most over the last three years. Abortions went from less
than five thousand total in twenty nineteen to more than
twenty thousand in three So here in eastern New Mexico,
the issue of abortion has sparked tensions and it's mobilized
(08:08):
Latinos and very specifically Latinas to work for or against
abortion access. Today, producer Marta Martinez and I are going
to introduce you to some of these new activists. Our
piece is a collaboration with whyyse the Pulse. And to
(08:30):
start off, we're going to meet Dina Ortega.
Speaker 7 (08:34):
Hi, how are you nice to finally meetcha Sorry y'all
had to come in such a cold day.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
Dina had a lot of energy, right Martha.
Speaker 3 (08:43):
Yeah, she's this very smiley, very energetic, thirty seven year
old woman. She wears these gold rimmed glasses, and I
think what is very important for her is this small
cross that she wears on her neck.
Speaker 7 (08:56):
I teach you through bat my church and we're having
a fun so I have the flyers everywhere.
Speaker 8 (09:02):
Now.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
Dina is not from Clovis, where we started the piece, right,
She's from a town that's pretty close, right.
Speaker 3 (09:08):
Yeah, Dina lives in Portalis. It's about thirty minutes south
of Clovis and again less than twenty minutes from the
Texas border.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
And then we pulled up to Dina's house, which was
a grayish blue mobile home and it was the only
one around here that has a ramp instead of stairs
to get in the reason why they have a ramp
is because Dina lives with her eighteen year old daughter Sarah,
also her cat Spark. But Sarah is in a wheelchair,
so that's why the ramp.
Speaker 4 (09:36):
But this is my house, it's so cute.
Speaker 6 (09:39):
Nice now.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
Dina was only nineteen when she had her baby girl, Sarah.
Speaker 7 (09:45):
Honestly, I was just young and stupid. There's no excuse.
I never really had that birth control talk with my mom.
It was always, if you have sex, you're.
Speaker 4 (09:53):
Going to hell.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
Dina was already three months in when she took the
pregnancy test and it ca back positive.
Speaker 6 (10:01):
But you never thought of having an abortion.
Speaker 7 (10:04):
It was ready too late.
Speaker 6 (10:05):
Would you have had if you had found out earlier?
I know that's hard to say.
Speaker 9 (10:10):
Now, but.
Speaker 7 (10:14):
I don't know. Back then, it wasn't something we talked about.
Something even new you could get, so I wouldn't even
have known like where to go, what to do, who
to call. I mean, I was scared out of my
mind to tell my mom, much less ask her what
to do next.
Speaker 4 (10:33):
What happened when you told your momof.
Speaker 7 (10:38):
I got in trouble? It was awful. I know, I
broke my mom's heart.
Speaker 6 (10:43):
Did she support you?
Speaker 7 (10:44):
Yeah. If I didn't have my parents and my aunt
and uncle, I don't know what I would have done.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
Dina's daughter was born with spina bifida, which means the
spinal cord doesn't form properly.
Speaker 7 (11:00):
Daughter was sicker than sick. She only has one kidney.
She's had over thirteen surgeries on her feet.
Speaker 2 (11:06):
On her back, so Sarah needed a lot of care.
Speaker 7 (11:09):
I don't want to do that again.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
After two years of focusing just on raising her daughter
and only twenty one years old at the time, Dina
started dating and she got into a new relationship. It
was great at first, but then he started abusing drugs
and alcohol and he got more controlling.
Speaker 7 (11:29):
I wasn't allowed to wear makeup. I wasn't allowed to
have a lock pass on my phone. I wasn't allowed
to be on birth control.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
I remember Dina telling us that she was really shocked
when she came under this kind of control of her partner.
Speaker 3 (11:44):
She definitely didn't expect that, and that was the one
thing that Dina knew she was never going to comply with.
There was no way that she was going to have
another child after what she went through with Sarah, and
she also knew that she would be forever trapped with
her abuse partner, So she started taking birth control shots
every three months or so, and she did it in secret.
(12:06):
She would drive to Clovis, which is the town where
we started the story, and that's where the only women's
clinic in the region was at the time.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
But Dina is very Catholic, right Martha.
Speaker 3 (12:18):
Yeah, and she didn't see taking birth control as a
contradiction with her Catholic faith.
Speaker 7 (12:24):
I really really don't think God would have wanted me
to bring a baby into that situation. My ex was
an addict and he was abusive. Why should a child
have to live through that.
Speaker 3 (12:35):
Dina stayed with her partner for thirteen years during the pandemic.
She finally told him to leave.
Speaker 2 (12:42):
Is that why you understand and take the possibility of
choosing an abortion?
Speaker 6 (12:47):
Is that why you take it so serious?
Speaker 7 (12:49):
Because I know what it's like to feel trapped somewhere.
I would go to bed every single night and I
would just pray to God, God, I just want to
be happy. God, I just want to be happy. You
should never, as a woman, as a human being, ever
have to think.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
That the summer when Roe v. Wade was overturned. That's
when Dina started joining pro choice demonstrations in Portales and
in Clovis.
Speaker 7 (13:24):
I remember in high school I used to always say like,
I would love to live in like the sixties, the seventies,
so I could do the protests, do the marches. And
then thirty years later, here I am doing it. You're
not supposed to go backwards, You're supposed to go forward.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
And she became the vice chair of the local Democratic Party.
It turns out that in Dina's family, their allegiance to
the Democratic Party runs almost as deep as their Catholic faith.
But then Marta Sbaight happened.
Speaker 3 (13:52):
Yeah, that's the very restrictive abortion law that Texas passed
only six weeks of pregnancy, and Dina was at work
at the local hospital that day.
Speaker 4 (14:03):
She remembers it very well.
Speaker 7 (14:05):
I just started crying at my desk and I was
just like, oh my gosh. And I told my coworkers,
we're going back to like the nineteen hundreds. What are
they going to take from us next?
Speaker 3 (14:20):
Dina knew that the wave of consequences from Sbaight would
also impact.
Speaker 4 (14:24):
Her community in eastern New Mexico.
Speaker 3 (14:27):
But she didn't expect that part of it would involve
trying to bring back laws from the nineteenth century.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
And coming up on Latino USA, how those nineteenth century
laws ended up waking up Latina activists in eastern New Mexico.
Stay with us, no devayas, Hey, we're back. Before the break,
(15:07):
we learned how the passing of an anti abortion law
in Texas ended up sparking tensions in eastern New Mexico.
So first there's Dina Ortega, who we just met, a
devout Catholic who is also a strong believer in a
woman's right to choose.
Speaker 3 (15:24):
And now we meet Victoria Robledo at a coffee shop
in Clovis.
Speaker 7 (15:30):
Hello, nice for me, late.
Speaker 3 (15:34):
That's the town that's less than ten minutes away from
the Texas border that we mentioned at the top of
the show, where there's this welcome sign with this big
cross and the Ten Commandments.
Speaker 10 (15:44):
This is Blackwater Coffee, my favorite coffee shop and arguably
the best place in Clovis.
Speaker 3 (15:50):
Victoria moved to Clovis in twenty twenty one because her
husband got a job at Canon Air Force Base, which
is nearby Clovis. And this is also the cafe where
her activism group, which is called Eastern New Mexico Rising,
was founded, and they meet regularly here. They started organizing
around reproductive rights after Rob Waite was overturned.
Speaker 10 (16:12):
Can I just get an ice macho late?
Speaker 9 (16:14):
A large ice matcho late?
Speaker 2 (16:16):
And Victoria? I mean, she's really got a big personality.
Speaker 3 (16:21):
Yeah. Victoria is twenty five years old and she's already
the mother of two boys and also a personal trainer
and an activist. She's also from Corpus Christi, Texas, like
the singer Selina, and she likes to point out, so
moving over.
Speaker 10 (16:36):
Here, I was like, this is not that different, you know,
even though the state aligns with my values, like the
town doesn't. So I feel like I'm just in Texas
all over again.
Speaker 3 (16:44):
Victoria became a mother when she was very young, just
like the Nowtega, the other Latina we met earlier in
the show, and it had a deep impact on her
political views.
Speaker 10 (16:54):
I had them at nineteen and so just like the
after effects of having him postpartum depression and not getting
the resources that I needed, it was like, okay, this
is my issue. This is the one that was what
really spearheaded it.
Speaker 2 (17:11):
In early twenty twenty two, Victoria and her husband celebrated
a pregnancy, but it ended soon in miscarriage. Then she
got pregnant again, and now she was worried about how
the overturn of Roe v. Wade might impact her access
to healthcare during her pregnancy, and the news began to
(17:32):
hit much closer to home.
Speaker 10 (17:34):
And then I see a Facebook post in April about
women's medical center closings, and I'm like, are you kidding me?
Speaker 2 (17:42):
Do you remember what that felt like when you were like,
my god, there's no healthcare around for me.
Speaker 9 (17:47):
Yeah, it was really upsetting.
Speaker 10 (17:49):
I was frustrated because a part of me was like,
why is this the only place here?
Speaker 4 (17:54):
Like why is there not more ob jo.
Speaker 10 (17:56):
Enns, because like hearing about the Obbs, like your rights
might be at stake, but here, also, your women's center
is closed, so good luck.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
Like super personal, Like the politics of the Supreme Court
suddenly are like in your small town.
Speaker 3 (18:09):
Yes, And that led Victoria to get politically involved in
her new hometown in a way she didn't expect, and
things got more tense very fast.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
So, dear listener, so far, we've heard from newly minted
Latina activists who are now out defending a woman's right
to choose in their small towns in eastern New Mexico.
But of course, Latinos, like everybody else in this country
in terms of politics, are very complex. So other people
have been mobilized now more than ever to rally against
(18:52):
abortion access. And we came upon this too in eastern
New Mexico.
Speaker 11 (18:57):
Is this as first und to Clovis?
Speaker 5 (18:58):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (18:59):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
We met up with Pastor Eric Welsh at Grace Covenant
Reformed Church in Clovis, and that's the same town where
Victoria the activist lives.
Speaker 4 (19:09):
I have no idea, it's yes, yes.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
His mother's family is from Mexico. His father is Italian
and Irish, but he grew up with his familia on
his mother's side and so he identifies as Hispanic.
Speaker 11 (19:25):
It's a very matriarchal family. My grandmother and all my
aunts and my mom, they're all very strong women.
Speaker 2 (19:33):
In the summer of twenty twenty two, Eric Hurd that
an abortion clinic was considering his hometown as a new location.
Speaker 11 (19:43):
And they had named Clovis specifically, and it was like, Oh,
we need to do something.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
About this, because it was like, oh, I live in
New Mexico, which is a blue state. Yes, they're going
to protect abortion, and I don't want to see this
happen in my life.
Speaker 9 (20:00):
That's right.
Speaker 2 (20:00):
And in terms of Eric, he actually had a bit
of a difficult life, right. He got married at nineteen,
started drinking and taking drugs, became a father at twenty,
but says he never considered abortion, even though he was
an atheist at the time.
Speaker 11 (20:15):
My mom had me at fifteen, Like fifteen, raising me
is brutal, and my dad wasn't the greatest dude, and
she always busted her rear end for me and my brother,
and I didn't really have the justification. If she could
do it, then I could do it.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
Things didn't go well. He kept on drinking, he was
addicted to opioids, and then he went to rehab, even
though he was pretty skeptical about the religious part of
the program. But then one day, he says, a pastor
came and shared the Gospel with him.
Speaker 6 (20:51):
So what happened in that moment.
Speaker 11 (20:54):
I can't explain it. It was just I heard him.
The light switch went off, and I knew. I won't
say that I trusted it just quite yet, but I
knew that there was something different with me.
Speaker 2 (21:09):
And he says, since then he's remained sober.
Speaker 11 (21:13):
When I realized that God is real, I began reading
the scriptures. Where my addiction was the insatiable desire, it
now became learning about this God. And this topic of
abortion is one that is dealt with clearly in the scriptures.
Speaker 2 (21:31):
But actually, Marta, the question of abortion in the scriptures
is in fact not so clear right.
Speaker 3 (21:38):
Actually, the Bible doesn't mention abortion explicitly anywhere. Most anti
abortion Christians focus on its mentions of the value of
life in the womb and the idea of life beginning
a conception.
Speaker 11 (21:50):
This really is about loving women, it really is. It's
not about controlling people.
Speaker 2 (21:56):
But then Marta, Eric actually jumped in because he wanted
to control things that were happening in his town.
Speaker 3 (22:02):
Yeah, So when he heard that potentially an abortion provider
might come to his hometown in Clovis, that's when he
devoted all of his efforts to stop it. And he
looked across the New Mexico border.
Speaker 11 (22:15):
I contacted one of the guys who played an instrumental
role in the Heartbeat.
Speaker 4 (22:20):
Bill for Texas.
Speaker 3 (22:21):
That's SB eight, the abortion band in Texas that we've
talked about before, and Eric is referring to pastor Mark
Lee Dixon, the founder of the anti abortion group Right
to Life of East Texas.
Speaker 12 (22:33):
I'm against abortion period, the taking of an innocent life
made in the image of God.
Speaker 6 (22:41):
It shouldn't be.
Speaker 3 (22:43):
And then the other person he reached out to is
lawyer Jonathan F. Mitchell, who is also the former Texas
Solicitor General and one of Donald Trump's personal lawyers.
Speaker 13 (22:54):
If you are opposed to abortion, I think it should
be outlaw and criminalized. Then the question becomes how you
have an effective prohibition on abortion?
Speaker 2 (23:02):
Okay, So to be clear, Dixon and Mitchell are basically
the forces behind the abortion ban in the state of Texas,
but now they're operating in eastern New Mexico. And so
after Eric, the pastor in Clovis, insisted for a bit,
Mark Lee Dixon, the Texas pastor, comes to Clovis and
(23:25):
they organize a public meeting in September of twenty twenty
two located at Eric's church. And it turns out that
a lot of people show.
Speaker 11 (23:34):
Up on a normal church service, we have like fifty
people that show up here. There was a camera crew
over on that side by the exit and we literally
had every seat packed.
Speaker 3 (23:45):
And that's where Mark Lee Dixon shared this strategy that
he's been leading to fight abortion.
Speaker 4 (23:51):
At the local level.
Speaker 3 (23:53):
And this is what they call the Sanctuary Cities of
the Unborn.
Speaker 2 (24:02):
Okay, so they have a national policy and it's called
the Sanctuary Cities of the Unborn.
Speaker 3 (24:10):
Yeah, this is a very well planned strategy from these
anti abortion leaders to actually bond abortion at the local level,
especially in states where abortion is protected, like New Mexico.
Speaker 6 (24:22):
So how do they plan on doing that?
Speaker 3 (24:25):
So what they did is they drafted this ordinance, which
is like a rule that's made by a local government,
and it's based on a very obscure and pretty much
outdated law from the nineteenth century. That's called the Comstock Act,
which is basically an anti obscenity law.
Speaker 2 (24:43):
All Right, so let's take a moment because a lot
has happened here and now we're talking about nineteenth century
laws that are being used in eastern New Mexico to
restrict abortion. So that what exactly does the Comstock Act
have to do with abortion?
Speaker 3 (25:05):
It gets a little bit technical, but it's very important
and we are going to hear a lot more about
the Comstock Act in the coming months. So basically, the
Comstock Act bans the shipping or receiving of any tools, drugs,
or other supplies that can be used in an abortion.
For most of the twentieth century, this was really not enforced,
(25:29):
and in many cases it's seen even as unconstitutional.
Speaker 2 (25:33):
Right because over the years, actually more federal laws were
passed in order to protect abortion access. And now these
nineteenth century laws are being revived. So how does this work? Exactly?
Speaker 3 (25:47):
Yeah, that's what these local ordinances are trying to do. Basically,
they would require a potential clinic that wanted to perform
abortions they would have to apply for a business license,
and in order to get a license, they would have
to confirm that they will quote unquote comply with federal law,
(26:08):
which it's like a trap because it means that they
won't violate the Comstock Act.
Speaker 2 (26:14):
Which basically sounds like a roundabout way to effectively ban.
Speaker 3 (26:18):
Abortion exactly, because as we said, how are you going
to get a license where you say you need to
comply with the Comstock Act if what you're trying to
do is to perform an abortion, and then you can't
get any supplies in town. But even though it all
sounds like it doesn't make a lot of sense, there
are actually sixty nine towns Maria across the country that
(26:41):
have already passed comstock coordinances. Most of them are in Texas,
but there are also cities in states like Nebraska, Iowa,
and Illinois. We actually reached out to Mark Lee Dixon
and Jonathan Mitchell to ask them about the sanctuary cities
of the unborn movement, and Dixon the Texas passed or
responded via email saying that he has assisted almost eighty
(27:04):
cities and counties across seven states in trying to pass
very similar ordinances to quote, protect the health and welfare
of communities. Dixon added that his motivation to go to
other states outside of Texas is that people have been
asking for his help and that quote, the rights of
(27:25):
unborn children must be protected everywhere. So this is the
proposal that Mark Lee Dixon brought to Clovis, and they
asked the residents to put pressure on their representatives to
pass it.
Speaker 2 (27:39):
Now, this is in fact part of a highly coordinated
national strategy from these anti abortion leaders. So on the
local level, people like Vigdordia, the activists right, they were
really taken by surprise, like, how was it now that
their little town in eastern New Mexico became a kind
(27:59):
of ground zero of the front lines of the anti
abortion fight.
Speaker 10 (28:03):
I didn't even know what an ordnance was. I didn't
even know they were called commissioners. I knew nothing.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
Victoria did worry that this was now about taking away
access to women's healthcare in her community, and that would
impact her because it turns out she was now pregnant again.
Speaker 10 (28:22):
It's not just about abortion, because abortion is only part
of reproductive healthcare as a whole. It is ridiculous because
it's not a moral issue. I mean, it's just healthcare.
Speaker 2 (28:34):
And then everything moved really fast, right Marda.
Speaker 3 (28:38):
Yes, two months after Pastor Eric Welsh organized this meeting
at his church, they were already setting a vote in
the Clovis City Commission to consider the comstock ordinance. And
that was November third, twenty twenty two. And Victoria thought
it was not random that this was moving so quickly.
Speaker 10 (28:59):
People don't be attention to local politics. So you can
get this done fast without anyone noticing, then you're good.
And Clovis was the first place in New Mexico for
them to try this on.
Speaker 4 (29:11):
There was a lot of expectation in the community. On
the day of the vote, good evening everyone. Mayor Morris
addressed the busy room.
Speaker 13 (29:18):
We'll begin the meeting in the normal fashion with a
prayer and then we'll honor our flag. So if you
would please stand with me.
Speaker 3 (29:25):
So the mayor allowed for five people to speak in
favor of the ordinance and five people to speak against it,
and one of the people who spoke in favor was
Pastor Eric Welsh.
Speaker 11 (29:36):
Why do we think that the answer to this question
is going to be found in a governor, is going
to be found in an ally at the state level.
The answer to this problem is found in God alone.
This is either right or it is wrong. Which side
do you fall on? If you call yourself a Christian?
Please please vote yes on this.
Speaker 13 (29:58):
Thank you.
Speaker 3 (30:01):
And a few minutes later it was Victoria Robleto who
took the microphone.
Speaker 10 (30:05):
I am a district or a constituent of district too pregnant.
Speaker 3 (30:09):
Obviously Victoria was eight months pregnant and she was wearing
this black dress with her belly showing under a red blazer.
Speaker 10 (30:16):
The city cannot be a city for the unborn, when
pregnant women like myself can't get the timely care they need.
I'm doing less than a month with no appointment scheduled
this week. It took me longer to grow this child
than for y'all to consider stripping away my rights tonight.
So please, for the sake of our community, I ask
from emotion to table Ordnance twenty one to eighty four.
Speaker 9 (30:38):
Thank you.
Speaker 3 (30:39):
What Victoria was asking is to table the ordinance, which
means to put the decision on hold.
Speaker 2 (30:46):
And then Mark Lee Dixon, the Texas pastor who co
wrote the ordinance, he was there too, and he even
spoke at the meeting, which was surprising because the testimonies
were supposed to be from the community.
Speaker 12 (30:59):
Right Life Texas has no borders because people from East
Texas are coming to New Mexico for abortions.
Speaker 2 (31:07):
It was clear in his speech that for him, this
local ordinance was part of something much bigger.
Speaker 12 (31:13):
You're going to send a message tonight to all the
media here, to all of New Mexico, to the United
States of America. Is Clovis ready to stand for life?
Speaker 4 (31:25):
We asked Peak Doria about this outside influence.
Speaker 10 (31:29):
Oh, it was the worst. The idea was not spurred
from local support. The idea came from Texas and was
planted here.
Speaker 3 (31:38):
I'm wondering if you felt like your town was in
a way being manipulated. Yes, and we asked the same
to Eric Welsh, but he felt the manipulation did not
come from the outside.
Speaker 11 (31:51):
I felt that our town was being manipulated by our government.
I think there was a lot of fear. This was
something that they desperately did not want to have to
deal with.
Speaker 13 (31:59):
I'll call the vote Comission, please vote.
Speaker 3 (32:01):
It was a nail biting moment for Victoria and the
Eastern New Mexican Rising team.
Speaker 9 (32:06):
So we're sitting.
Speaker 10 (32:06):
Here and there's a big screen right there, and we're
just all looking at it, like holding on to each other,
holding onto our seats.
Speaker 4 (32:15):
A few seconds later, the vote is out on the
screen by.
Speaker 13 (32:19):
Vote of seven in favor and want to pose the
motion to table carries.
Speaker 2 (32:24):
The Commission decides, in fact, to table the decision about
the ordinance, which was a win for Victoria and a
takedown of Pastor Eric Welsh.
Speaker 11 (32:34):
I was upset.
Speaker 6 (32:36):
I was very upset about that.
Speaker 2 (32:38):
Finally, some people started applauding about the tabling of the decision,
and Victoria was among those who were celebrating this.
Speaker 9 (32:46):
We all started falling.
Speaker 10 (32:48):
I don't even remember the noises that were being made.
It was just like so crazy.
Speaker 2 (32:52):
It was an unexpected victory in a town that is
majority Republican.
Speaker 10 (32:57):
Meanwhile, we're like, we just saved our health. It was
like David and Goliath, which is ironic considering the circumstances.
Speaker 4 (33:10):
But victorious joy wouldn't last long.
Speaker 2 (33:13):
And that's coming up on Latino USA because a wave
of comstock ordinances gets pasted in eastern New Mexico. Feeling
a blow to pro choice Latinas there, stay with us, Yes, hey,
(33:45):
we're back, Producer Marta Martinez and I are reporting in New.
Speaker 6 (33:50):
Mexico in Clovis, New Mexico.
Speaker 2 (33:54):
The decision to pass this ordinance was tabled, but anti
abortion activists from our state then when after another eastern
New Mexico town it's called Hobbes, So Marda. Where is
Hobbes and what happened there?
Speaker 3 (34:11):
So Hobbs is about two hours south of Clovis, and
it's also over sixty percent Latino or Hispanic as they
usually say here. On November seventh, twenty twenty two, that's
just four days after Clovis decided to postpone their decision,
Hobbs voted on a very similar anti abortion ordinance.
Speaker 2 (34:32):
So I will ask for a motion to approve Ordinance
number eleven forty.
Speaker 6 (34:37):
Please vote.
Speaker 3 (34:38):
And the city commission in Hobbes, which is formed by
six men, passed the comstock ordinance right away.
Speaker 6 (34:45):
Most passion a study.
Speaker 2 (34:48):
And then in January of twenty twenty three, only two
months after Clovis had tabled their decision about the ordinance,
the Clovis Commissioners voted on it once again.
Speaker 13 (35:01):
By a vote of seven in favor and one abstention.
The motion is.
Speaker 2 (35:05):
Carried and this time the ordinance passed. Sstor Eric Welch,
who had brought the ordinance here, was in the room
and he was celebrating.
Speaker 7 (35:17):
I was very excited about that.
Speaker 11 (35:19):
We made a stance, and any abortion clinic that wanted
to come into clothes knew that they're gonna have to
fight to be here. That we're not just going to
roll over and say, oh, well, you know state law.
They're actually going to have a fight on their hands,
and that's what we wanted.
Speaker 2 (35:35):
So remember Victoria Robedo, the activist from this area. She
had just given birth. She was watching all of this
online and she was impacted because there was only one
Latina commissioner who voted for this ordinance, and she's a Democrat.
And this is what that commissioner said. Her name is
(35:57):
Helen Cassos. If anybody think that they can do a
better job than any of us sitting up here, they
need to run for election. And this changed everything for Victoria.
Speaker 9 (36:09):
I was like, no, this is not okay.
Speaker 10 (36:14):
A Hispanic woman who was a registered Democrat and then
vote for this, No, okay, that's fine.
Speaker 9 (36:23):
Then I'm going to take your seat. And so I
was like, I'm going to run for office.
Speaker 2 (36:36):
The move to pass these ordinances doesn't stop there.
Speaker 6 (36:40):
It actually continues.
Speaker 3 (36:43):
Just a few days later, another comstock ordinance passed. This
time it was in Roosevelt County, which is where Dina
Ortega lives. That's the Catholic Latina that we met earlier
in the show.
Speaker 7 (36:53):
There was just so many people, it was so packed.
It's like so intense, and the people against abortion are
talking and they have just as much power and emotion
in their voice as we did.
Speaker 3 (37:05):
And there was no surprise in this vote either. The
ordinance got passed by four votes in favor and one against.
Speaker 7 (37:14):
I remember I walked out of that meeting and I
called my mom as soon as I got out, and
I told her, Mom, I'm going to become a politician.
You feel that rush? And I said, Mom, what are
these women? These girls are going to do? Because someone's
got a fight, Someone's got to be the backbone of
this town.
Speaker 4 (37:33):
What about twenty twenty six, I'll be city council.
Speaker 2 (37:46):
So you have this wave of anti abortion ordinances taking
over eastern New Mexico. But at the same time, in
twenty twenty three, Whole Woman's Health, the abortion provider that
we heard from earlier in the show, they made a
decision about where they wanted to open their first clinic
in New Mexico.
Speaker 3 (38:06):
Yes, they were considering Clovis or hops, but they finally
opened the clinic in Albuquerque. Ammy Hackstrom, the founder of
Whole Woman's Health, says that ninety five percent of their
patients come from Texas now.
Speaker 5 (38:20):
And I think in a community like Albuquerque, it's big
enough that we can blend in that our patients may
not be surveiled in the same kind of way that
they might be in a small border community, but I
think those kinds of communities are really targeted by this movement.
Speaker 2 (38:38):
And that movement is again the Sanctuary Cities of the Unborn,
led by Texas pastor Mark Lee Dixon and Texas lawyer
Jonathan Mitchell. Because rural conservative border towns like Clovis near
states where abortion is banned are perfect locations for their strategy.
(39:01):
Tensions around abortion are already high, and it's easier to
stir fear about the possibility of an abortion clinic opening there,
and so people get riled up.
Speaker 4 (39:12):
That's right, Maria.
Speaker 3 (39:13):
And they've done it in eastern New Mexico, as we
already saw. They also showed up in West Wendover, Nevada,
next to the border with Utah, and also in Danville, Illinois,
next to Indiana, where abortion is also a law. And
I've read several analysis from legal experts that say that
the conservative strategy is to push for these states that
(39:35):
protect abortion to sue the towns that have passed comstock ordinances.
The end game, these legal experts say, is that at
some point one of these cases will make it up
to the Supreme Court and maybe even lead to a
national abortion band. And this is something Amy Haxtrom has
(39:58):
seen before.
Speaker 5 (40:00):
I have said anti abortion strategies. You know, it starts
in Texas, doesn't stay in Texas. And I meant that
about the Roe v. Wade case, the Holven's Healthy Jackson,
the Sbaight case.
Speaker 6 (40:10):
I mean, these are.
Speaker 5 (40:10):
All cases that started in Texas that have affected people
all across the country.
Speaker 2 (40:15):
Because there's a conservative majority in the Supreme Court, there
is a real chance that the anti abortion movement could
get another outcome in their favor, like what we saw
with the reversal of Roe v.
Speaker 4 (40:28):
Wade and Martley Dixon.
Speaker 3 (40:30):
The Texas pastor was also quite blunt about their final
goal when we asked him about this. In his email,
he said that the final goal for him and his
movement is the end of abortion in all fifty states,
and that the Comstock Act is for them a means
(40:51):
to that end. And Maria Dixon also said that he
never intended to provoke a lawsuit against the ordinances, but
that he's not afraid of these ordinances ending up.
Speaker 4 (41:02):
Before the Supreme Court of the United.
Speaker 3 (41:04):
States, and he adds quote such a challenge would very
well lead to the end of abortion in America.
Speaker 4 (41:12):
As we know it.
Speaker 3 (41:13):
If that were to happen, I do not see that
being a bad thing for America.
Speaker 2 (41:20):
So this really is a much bigger issue than a
local ordinance that is based on an obscure law that
is passed in a small rural town.
Speaker 6 (41:29):
The play is big.
Speaker 5 (41:32):
We have to pay attention to what they're doing because
they've had a lot of success sort of rebranding a
lot of things that initially sound like absolute nonsense, and
then they introduce them over and over and over again.
In their diligence with that messaging can oftentimes make something
that started sounding extreme somehow normalized.
Speaker 2 (42:04):
It is a Saturday afternoon and we are back in Portales,
New Mexico, with Dina or Taga and her family from Ortegaville,
and they are all at Catholic church for regular four
pm Mass.
Speaker 7 (42:20):
We are at Saint Helen's Catholic Church. This is like
a second home to me.
Speaker 2 (42:25):
As Dina talks about her daughter, Sarah.
Speaker 7 (42:27):
She's a reader, she's an elector.
Speaker 2 (42:29):
Dina's mother parks in front of the church.
Speaker 7 (42:32):
Let me go help with the wheel chair, Give me
just a second.
Speaker 2 (42:35):
Dina helps her daughter get out of the car. Sarah
is a freshman now at Eastern New Mexico University in Portales.
Next to Dina is her mother, Cindy Ortega, and I
asked Cindy about her daughter's activism. What do you think
about the fact that she's outspoken, specifically on the question
(42:55):
of reproductive rights abortion.
Speaker 3 (42:58):
No, Dina knows that I'm not for abortion, but who
am I to judge?
Speaker 4 (43:05):
You know, that's between them and their god.
Speaker 2 (43:07):
Dina's daughter Sarah, went into the church, so we joined her. Inside.
Mass is about to start, so we are whispering, but
I had to ask Sarah about her mother, Dina, and
about her activism for women's right to choose.
Speaker 8 (43:24):
I think it's really good just to show from women's rights,
coming from a woman, I think it's good to get
herself out there and show what she stands for.
Speaker 2 (43:32):
Then Sarah tells me she's already following in her mother's footsteps.
Speaker 6 (43:37):
What do you say to your little girl, cousin.
Speaker 8 (43:38):
Well, you got to stand up for yourself. You kind
of watch for yourself in any moment because you never
know what can happen. But you got to just be
a woman and do things that you know that you
could do.
Speaker 2 (43:50):
With the support of her family, Dina is firm in
her plans to run for city council in Portales in
twenty twenty six. Okay, Marda, as we wrap up, just
bring us up to date on what's happened with those
(44:12):
Comstock ordinances since twenty twenty three.
Speaker 3 (44:15):
So the Comstock ordinances that were passed in eastern New
Mexico are now in illegal limbo, so to say, and
it's unclear whether they will ever come into effect. New
Mexico Attorney General Raul Torres filed a petition with the
state's Supreme Court to avoid the ordinances. He says that
the ordinances overstabbed their local power by trying to enforce
(44:38):
federal laws, and he also says that they violate New
Mexico's Constitution and.
Speaker 4 (44:44):
Bill of Rights, which do protect abortion.
Speaker 3 (44:49):
In December of twenty twenty three, the New Mexico Supreme
Court held a hearing on the Comstock ordinances. Victoria Robledo,
the activist, traveled all the way to sud Fate to
be in the courtroom that day.
Speaker 4 (45:02):
And she didn't go alone.
Speaker 3 (45:04):
She brought her baby Silas, with whom she was pregnant
when she first spoke at the Clovis meeting.
Speaker 10 (45:12):
He was a hit among the capitol, the security guards,
the legislators. It was very easy to get people to
talk to you when you have a baby's drafting your chest.
Speaker 3 (45:21):
Victoria and her husband recently purchased a new home hearing Clovis.
They've decided to raise their two children here in this community.
Speaker 10 (45:30):
You don't want to close every door you see, You
know that, right, No, no, no, no, no, no no.
Speaker 2 (45:40):
Victoria did end up running for city council last March.
What she enjoyed the most was knocking on doors and
listening to people from her community, people who looked just
like her.
Speaker 10 (45:52):
And that was something that I had constantly heard, like, oh,
it was anywhere from what is the city Commission? To
I pay taxes and nothing gets done in my neighborhood
and we would be in a disadvantaged neighborhood.
Speaker 2 (46:05):
Vittoria didn't win a seat in the city council, but
she did get about a third of the vote.
Speaker 10 (46:11):
I was disappointed, but at the same time, I felt
very hopeful because like, those numbers looked a lot better
than I had thought they would. I may not be
the best person for this, but you know, we're still
going to keep doing it because if not now, then when,
And if not me, then who.
Speaker 9 (46:33):
No one's going to save us. We got to do
it ourselves, and so gotta keep going.
Speaker 2 (46:47):
We reported this story in twenty twenty four and since then, well,
we have some updates for you. The New Mexico Supreme
Court has indeed struck down the comstock ordinances that were
passed in eastern New Mexico because they violate state law. Also,
Dina Ortega, the Catholic woman who's also pro choice, recently
(47:12):
announced that she is indeed running for city council in
her hometown of Portaes. The election will take place in November,
and dear listener, don't miss our next episode, dropping on Sunday.
We're going to continue looking into the issue of abortion.
This time we're going to take you to a Salvador,
(47:34):
the country that has one of the strictest abortion bands
in the world. The Spillover was reported by Marta Martinez
(48:10):
and myself. It was produced by Marta and edited by
Mitre Bonshahi. It was mixed by Stephanie Lebau. Fact checking
for this episode by Monica Morales Garcia. Fernando Echavari is
our managing editor. The Latino USA team also includes Rosanna Guire,
Julia Caruso, Jessica Ellis, Renaldo Leanoz Junior, Andrea Lopez, Gruzsado,
(48:34):
Luis Luna, Joni mar Marquez, Julieta Martinez, JJ Carumin, Adriana
Rodriguez and Nancy Trujuido Benni, Lei Ramirez and I are
executive producers and I'm your host Marigu Posa. Latino USA
is part of Iheart's Mike Undura podcast network. Executive producers
that iHeart are Leogomez and Arlene Santana. Join us again
(48:56):
on our next episode. In the meantime, you can find
us on social media. I'll see you there. And dear listener,
you know what I recommend. Joining food Doudo Plus. You'll
be able to listen to all the episodes without ads. Also,
food doo Plus gets you bonus episodes, special virtual events,
and some cheese made behind the scenes. And you'll be
(49:18):
supporting futuro Media, which you love. So girasias aestel approxima
chao Yes.
Speaker 7 (49:27):
Funding for Latino USA is coverage of a culture of
health is made possible in part by a grant from
the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation. Latino USA is made possible
in part by the Levi Strauss Foundation outfitting movements and
leaders fighting for a more just and abundant world, and
Skyline Foundation
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