December 18, 2023 • 50 mins
If you enjoyed part one of the conversation with Holly Marie Combs, you’re going to love part two! What really happened on the set of “Charmed?” Did Shannen direct her own death scene without knowing it? And how did Holly feel when Shannen left the very show she launched and loved? #thetruthmatters
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
This is Let's be Clear with Shannon Doherty. Hi everyone,
This is Let's be Clear with Shannon Doherty, Part two
of my interview with Hollywood combs. Hi Hall, so good.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
We had to do it again.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
It's kind of like where we left off. We were,
you know, talking about Charmed and what transpired and what happened.
And you know, I don't know if the statement was
made in her book or if it was on like
her press tour. I don't really know because I didn't
at that point in time pay all that close attention
(00:41):
to it. And I know that people are really interested
in what actually happened. It's it's a question that you
and I get. I think when we do the conventions
and we go on these panels, people have asked us
and I sort of would say, oh, it's wait for
the podcast, wait for the podcast. So now it's here,
let's be clear. Let's be clear. You know, I just
(01:05):
want to make sure that everybody knows that there's zero
hate here. The past is definitely done and over with,
and it's not even like we really talk about this
at all. It's I think this is coming up because
it's a question that I get asked on an absolute
regular basis. At every convention that we do, every single
(01:27):
you know fan that I run into on the streets
always asked me why did you quit? Why did you quit?
Why did you quit? And the narrative that I quit
was assigned to me by other people, wasn't assigned to me.
I didn't assign it to myself. And I think I'm
just at that point in my life where I don't
want to keep lying about something, and I don't want
(01:50):
to keep lying about something that meant the absolute world
to me, something that I went to I loved doing.
I loved going to that job, I loved the people
that I worked with. And I had a father who
was extremely sick and had a lot of medical needs,
and this show really helped me to provide for an
(02:14):
entire family. So when my livelihood got taken away, it
was extremely hard. I still went with the narrative and
the story that everybody wanted me to go with. But
now at my age and dealing with stage four cancer,
I just don't feel like I have to keep telling
a lie. I feel like it's okay to be honest.
(02:37):
So one of the biggest sort of myths out there
was that I quit.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
Well, that story has a backstory and then another story.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
Yeah, it has a lot of backstories, which we'll go into,
but just to you know, sort of address that. I
don't think that there's anybody in their right mind that
would quit a hit show that's paying them a good
amount of money that they actually really enjoy working on,
(03:09):
which was my deal. Like I enjoyed it.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
Yeah you did. You were very dedicated. You like to
show up for stunt rehearsals a day early and do
your wardrobe a week early. Was really annoying.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
Well, I mean Eilish was like so good prepared.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
You were overly prepared.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
I was. I liked to be prepared. But sort of
during that time period after the first season, when everybody
sort of got acclimated, I think things obviously started to
change and the show got a lot more attention and
us girls got individual attention, and that may have caused some.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
Yeah I heard that. I mean we've talked about that,
but I never knew that because I wasn't the one
doing the maximum covers. I think I did one terrible
cover and they gave me very big boobs and I
was like, who.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
Is she they did? I remember that cover?
Speaker 2 (04:02):
It was Stuff?
Speaker 1 (04:04):
Was it? Stuff Magazine?
Speaker 2 (04:06):
They made me like six feet tall and gave me
really big boobs, and I was like, Okay, that wasn't
the picture I approved. By the way, I had final
approval on the photo on the cover, and it was
I mean, it was a version of the photo I approved.
But that was the only like naked naked maxim type
(04:27):
photo shoot I did. And I remember saying to my
publicist at the time. I was like, shouldn't I take
like a couple of weeks. Well, I was in my
twenties maybe three, to like work out and look good
for this, And he was like, honey, no, they airbrushed gizell.
They don't even care what you look like. And I
was like, ouch.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
By the way, Stuff magazine the name, it sounds like
a porno magazine.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
Yeah, well look like it. But actually the cover shot
was the one I was most comfortable with because I
just wore my g I wasn't wearing like red lingerie
and I was topless, but my hair was covering my boob.
So that was the one. I was like, cool, I
can swing this.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
I remember this dis cover. It's very sexy.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
Yeah, I thought so. I mean, if I was six
foot in head double d's. Yeah, don't look it up.
Oh my god, woman, let some things die. Okay, so
they weren't double d's. They were like seas but still.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
Hey, you never know, I could go short. Those aren't
those are big?
Speaker 2 (05:34):
Yeah? Yeah, it's too big for my flag foot too.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
Look at your abs.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
Yeah, I got out and they got longer. That's why
I mean, like I got long, I got tall.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
Yeah, you know, they definitely stretched the torso.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
They did because I have no torso.
Speaker 1 (05:51):
I mean, you look good though I was.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
You know, the the real picture was fine too.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
Though, Yeah, I think I did. Like FHM and Lingerie
and then Maxim it.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
Was you guys were on the circuit.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
We were, but it was more of like all the
other you know, yes, those magazines where they served a
purpose back then, but it was like the people magazines
or the individual TV guide covers or the this or
the that or the you know. In my case, I
guess like my my contract was that I got you know,
(06:27):
I was the highest paid because I was the one
that the network you know hired and and and uh
sort of green light the show based on. So it
was something my attorney negotiated in there and that caused
you know, riffed once once Alyssa found out that was definitelyentually.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
Yeah, and Smelling did some backdoor deals. I don't know
why it was privy to all the backdoor deals, but
people tell me everything. I guess you do.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
Have a plethora of knowledge that like didn't even really
pertain to you. It was kind of wild.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
Yeah, and I keep every text an email, so truth
be told. Let's be clear.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
Yeah, I do too.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
Oh, I know this, I do know about you.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
Yeah, some people don't love that about me, but m h,
that's all right. I just like keeping all that stuff
because I think it's really good like reference. If somebody
is saying something that transpired that didn't transpire, then I
can go back in the email and be like, well,
actually here's the email.
Speaker 2 (07:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:34):
Yeah, I think that's like the attorney side of me
coming out. M h. Right. So there were like all
sorts of little jealousies. You went to the hospital, and
that was a little bit of an issue, you know.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
I asked, uh, it was funny. I don't know why
they put me in a room with Jonathan Levin of
all people. It wasn't Jim, wasn't Aarin. Well, Aaron had
kind of was having own health problems at that point,
but it wasn't Jim, and it wasn't Duke, who were
by my bedside when I woke up from surgery. So
it was interesting that when I had a problem after
(08:12):
this all transpired and I wanted to discuss leaving the
show and all my reasons why they put me in
a room with Jonathan Levin, which I don't know that
I had seen since we went to network, and you
had told me about your background with him, which is
varied and interesting, and he obviously has a very fond spot,
(08:33):
shall we say, for you, And I don't know why
they chose him to do this meeting, but I can
tell you that during the meeting where I said this
is not the show I signed on to do, I
hear that you're looking for other people. And it's not
about the list of names. It's about this was not
a show that I wanted to do without Shannon. She
(08:54):
didn't want to do it without me. Therefore I don't
want to do it without her, and that should be
fairly clear. And he hadars in his eyes already because
he could see I was getting upset. As you can
hear me getting upset, And I said, why would you
hire her again just to fire her? And he said,
we didn't mean to, And he said, but we've been
(09:16):
backed into this corner. He said, you know, we're basically
in a position where it's one or the other. We
were told that it's her me and Alyssa has threatened
to sue us for a hostile workplace environment, which because
she went to the therapist or the mediator or the
corporate mediator, whatever the heck his title is, she built
(09:40):
a case for herself where she was documenting every time
she felt uncomfortable on set and for whatever reason, whereas
you and I refused to speak to him. So that's
where the deck was stacked.
Speaker 1 (09:53):
I always think that, like when somebody does that, you
you know, I would as a producer call them on it.
And I know that that's a huge risk and it
was definitely one that they didn't want to take.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
And what's funny is that by today's standard, it wouldn't
even qualify because there were no onset, you know, brawls.
There was no either even like harsh words exchanged. It
was all behind the scenes, it was all in the trailer.
It was nothing that anybody or any of our guest
stars ever noticed or noted. And you know, there's not
a director that would not work with you. Again, there's
(10:26):
not any one of our crew members that did not
have a great time working with you. So by today's standards,
it wouldn't fucking fly, right, And I don't think being
laid as a teenager on a set called nine O
two one zero would fly for being fired either. Like
it's just it's just doesn't make any sense anymore. There
(10:47):
are people that actually behave badly and get away with it,
and there are men that you know, abuse people, throw things,
screaming fits and get away with it. Like I don't
think people understand that that never happen here unless you
were there. No one understands that.
Speaker 1 (11:05):
Yeah, I mean, I you know, listen, I lived a
you know, a year after that, sort of replaying everything
in my brain and really like trying to find those
moments where we and I couldn't find them, like there
was no like we never had it out, like we
(11:28):
never not privately or public public. Right, I don't ever
remember being mean to her on set. I actually, like
I remember an episode that I directed where you know,
she did something on the Christmas break and they asked
me to work around some things with her, and I
(11:49):
had no problem with it, Like I couldn't have been
more kind and understanding, And the only thing was that
it was. There were like a couple of couple of
things that sort of stood out to me. One was,
you know, her mom had that like safe searching thing
or whatever, and she like showed up one day and said, oh, well,
(12:10):
you know, I designed your website and it's unsafe searching now,
and I was like, can you please take it down?
Like my father doesn't feel well, he's not doing well,
and I sort of want to give this to him
as a project so he has something to occupy his
time with. And I mean, I have no idea if
(12:32):
that was a factor or not, but it happened. They
you know, did yours as well, but you allowed it,
and because why wouldn't you didn't have a dad that
needed something to do.
Speaker 2 (12:44):
He's floating around out there, right.
Speaker 1 (12:48):
And then the whole you know, paid discrepancy, even though
it was so incredibly minor not even worth a conversation really,
But once that all came out and her and I
had the conversation, and my attorneys went to Spelling and said,
this is not okay. You can't be doing you know,
(13:09):
side deals to someone.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
It was it was me that told you that there
was another deal, So why wasn't I fired?
Speaker 1 (13:15):
Right?
Speaker 2 (13:16):
Yeah, And I think you know previously, you know, you
had discussed with them that the tension was getting high
and that you didn't want to replay of what had
happened before, So you were preemptively trying to work it out.
And I also wonder in the back of their minds
if they didn't choose you because they knew they had
(13:37):
done it before and nine O two one zero went on.
I almost wonder if they were okay with the publicity,
if they were okay with we've done this before, it
worked out, fine, we can do it again.
Speaker 1 (13:53):
I think that's a valid, valid point. I think back
then the male mentality was to pit the women against
each other anyway in order to keep them controlled.
Speaker 2 (14:15):
Yeah. No, they didn't want us working together. They wanted
to keep us segregated and separated and not negotiating together
because then you have a friends situation where everybody's getting
paid the same amount, and that's not what they wanted
to do, you know, like I said before, I ended
up doing the most hours for the least pay because
I just didn't ask for raises. I didn't want more
(14:36):
to be taken out of the budget. I didn't want
to have no money for guest stars like I was producing. Then.
I knew that we had to get rid of Brian
for some episodes to afford Nick Lache. But at the
time when I had a three month old baby and
I'm doing more hours than anyone and people are being
let out for baseball games, you know, I sat in
(14:58):
my trailer and I was like, and I said to Jim,
and I said to Duke. I was like, I don't
need to do this. I don't want to do this.
This is a second time. I don't want to do this,
and I just I don't know how you expect me
to pick up all the pieces and go home to
a three month old baby and not be ragged like.
It just wasn't fair. It just wasn't fair.
Speaker 1 (15:20):
Yeah, because when I was gone, Once I was gone,
it really did fall completely on your shoulders, because at
least while I was there, it was on my shoulders.
And I would share it with you because we had
the same mindset about the show. But then once I
got fired, it was all on you.
Speaker 2 (15:38):
Yeah, you know, and it took you know, the writers
were good about letting me work through the process of
going through the change and grieving your loss and then
being awkward with Rose coming in. Yes, Prue and Page,
but I'm using their real life names because that's what
I had to deal with. And you know, I had
(15:58):
said to Jonathan, it's not the show that I want
to do. It's not the show I signed up for.
And you know, the conversation got to the point where
he said not just threatened to sue me, but said
he would sue me and dock my wages if I
worked anywhere.
Speaker 1 (16:18):
Else, right, I remember, including being a backer at a
grocery store. They would still dock your wages.
Speaker 2 (16:24):
Yeah, I said, well that's because I started laughing, like
through my tears. I started laughing, and I was like,
what does that even mean. He said, we will sue
you for what we think we will have lost on
the show because of your departure, and we will dock
your wages to regain those numbers. And I said, well,
what if I go to like Arizona and I bag groceries.
(16:45):
He goes, we will dock your wages. It really was like, suddenly,
I'm married to the mob. They forced me to go
back to a show that I wanted nothing to do with,
and it was very emotional for me, and it was
very emotional for both of us. And you couldn't understand
how I couldn't do anything, and frankly, neither did I,
because my voice meant nothing. And that's what was so
(17:08):
funny to me. I was like, you're telling me I'm
so valuable that you can't do the show without me,
but yet my voice and my feelings and my thoughts
mean nothing.
Speaker 1 (17:17):
Well, imagine could they couldn't lose two sisters? Like it's
fine to, you know, go into a four season replacing
one sister and all of a sudden she's dead and
you have her direct her own death without telling her
what she's doing. But to lose two, for sure, I
think at that point the audience would have turned because
the truth would have come out at that point, and
(17:39):
eventually those people would have turned it off, which is
why it's I think, correct me if I'm wrong. But
you and I have spoken about this. It's hard to
have even this conversation publicly because we are so respectful
of the audience and the fans and how much they
(18:01):
love the show, and they bond with the show when
they think of us all as sisters, so as we are.
You don't want to break that.
Speaker 2 (18:08):
You don't want to burst anybody's bubble. But the fact
of the matter is, this is what I say. It
is like a real life family. We did have common goals,
and we tried to keep it together, and we did
get along famously for a long time, and then you
just have life differences where sisters, as far as I know,
from having no siblings myself, families, you know, stop talking
to each other, or people come back together and reunite
(18:30):
or they don't, you know, And it's just it's a painful.
It's a painful bond and it was a painful time.
And for it to be put to me the way
it was was it felt like blackmail. And then try
acting through that and making people want to see it.
Speaker 1 (18:51):
While you succeeded, eh, I don't know, people still wanted
to see it. I think people inherently instinctually understand that
it was like once I was gone, it was you
that was the glue between the new Threesome and I
think it's why when people really think of Charmed, it
(19:13):
becomes yes, prou will always be there, but there's a
big piper element because I think it's obvious like you were,
you know, hurt, you were all of those things. I
think that shows and how you dealt with it after.
But during the rest of those years, you were the glue.
Speaker 2 (19:33):
Yeah, you know. And it was it was tough because
you know, none of this was Rose's fault, and she
was coming into this situation quite awkwardly. Even though she
was a tough guy, she wasn't. This was awkward for
her and I had I had empathy for her for that,
and I could see how difficult this was for her
to just jump into not just being a show that
(19:55):
was already running, but she had never done TV before,
so there was a huge learning curve, you know. So
I was sensitive to that fact. And really my only consolation,
and it wasn't a very big one, was that I
said to Jonathan, you guys will not have the privilege
of saying that you fired her again. And I said,
the only thing that I'm going to ask of you
(20:17):
is that she gets to put out whatever statement she
wants to. And I said, if anybody talks about it,
then I'm I'm going to be a very big problem.
Speaker 1 (20:27):
I mean, what's really funny about that is that I
had a pair play deal, and when all of this
went down, I was like, Okay, they can't burn me
a second time, right, That's not fair. It's not fair
to me. So I really wanted to sue them for
my payer play deal, which would mean that for as
long as you guys went on, I would continue being
(20:50):
paid and my contract would be honored as far as
a paycheck goes and profit participation and everything that was
in my contract and my representatives and remember them looking
at me at the time and said, no, no, no,
your career won't survive another firing. So we're just going
to say that you chose to leave. And I started
(21:14):
I remember I started laughing, going, who is going to
believe that I'm crazy enough to leave a hit.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
Show or to direct an episode that you died in
and not such a great fashion. We would have made
it far more spectacular than that, for sure.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
It wouldn't have been just a bookcase falling on you
and me being thrown through the air and through a
door wall or whatever.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
I had both went through the wall and looked like
we were taking a nap.
Speaker 1 (21:42):
I would have blown up, you know, I would have
had far more spectacular. Somebody take over your body and
you blow me up, and let's see how you deal
with killing her sister for the next season. I would
have done something, you know, a lot more. But I'm
going to say I was still young. I was twenty seven, eight,
twenty nine, somewhere in that range, and really thought that
(22:05):
I should listen to everybody else about my career. And
it's one of It's not like a huge regret because
at the end of the day, it's just a TV
show and it's just one aspect of my life when
my life is about so many other things. But I
wish that I had been older and wiser, because I
(22:25):
definitely would have sued, and I would have been honest
about the situation, because the rumors followed me regardless, right,
and so the rumors were there, but now I wasn't
getting paid and I was made out to. It makes
you look crazy when you want to you when you
leave a hit show only after three seasons. I think
(22:46):
that the people in the industry and the business knew
what happened because word.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
Spread not necessarily though, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:55):
I mean we ran into it a couple of times.
It was it was, It was awkward, and I think
I said much earlier that you know, there are things
that you can forgive and forget, and I was pretty
harsh saying that I would never forgive or forget. And
I was contemplating that again today and yesterday, and I thought,
(23:17):
is there forgiveness? I think there's acceptance, which as you
get older, you accept that a situation happened. But acceptance
and moving on with your life does not equate to forgiveness.
You just learn a lesson and look at somebody differently
(23:39):
and move on.
Speaker 2 (23:43):
I think we were all just cogs in that wheel.
I think they knew how to make money and they
did it well.
Speaker 1 (23:49):
You know, I was fine being and I know that
this doesn't sound very good for me, but I was
fine being a cog in that wal, to be honest,
because it was a great show and it was something
that I enjoyed. The more it progressed and the more
I got to do my stunts and I had that
amazing stunt team, it was. It was fun. I looked
(24:09):
forward to going to work and once they started letting
me direct. I was in my element. I was assuming
that for season I would direct something like five episodes
of four episodes.
Speaker 2 (24:24):
It was.
Speaker 1 (24:25):
It gave me a lot of opportunities that I was
incredibly grateful for. But then when that was sort of
snatched away without even a fair trial, that's what's upsetting.
Speaker 2 (24:36):
Without a warning though, either. I mean, I remember when
you called me and we were on a hiatus and
you were working and we hadn't really talked in a minute,
and you said that they had just fired you. I said,
that's impossible, it's impossible. I was like, you just directed
the last episode. That's impossible. Like I really was like,
you're mistaken, You're mistaken, because it was just so preposterous.
(24:59):
It was so ridiculous that it was like shocking, and
you said you need to do something, and I was like,
it's just not even happening, and it's so dumb, so dumb.
Speaker 1 (25:11):
I will say that I think Rose stepped in nicely,
and that, as you said, was very hard. Yeah. I
know that there was some press things trying to pit
us against each other, and well that's what they did
in that I kept on referring to a photo of
the two of us at an Entertainment Weekly party in
(25:33):
New York City where we hung out, and we're both
smiling and happy with each other because there was no reason.
It wasn't Rose's fault. There was no reason for me
to have an issue with her, and she did a
great job, and she brought something quirky and different to
the show. But it was definitely you that kept that
(25:57):
train moving forward and being the person that cared oh
so deeply besides me for it and making sure that
the fans got what they needed out of that show.
You were very dedicated to that.
Speaker 2 (26:13):
Cause yeah, I was. I still am, you know, And
that's why going to cons like is strangely, you know,
it's astonishing to me that it meant, you know, half
as much to other people as it did to me,
because I really thought I was going crazy for a
little bit where I was like, I just I just
(26:34):
so valiantly wanted to make it good and wanted to
make it real and for whatever reasons I can't really
even explain now, So you know, part of part of
it is work ethic, part of it is not wanting
to fail, you know, but it was it was a
big deal to me.
Speaker 1 (26:54):
Wow, anything that you want to add, I.
Speaker 2 (26:57):
Don't know, I got a little heated, calmed down a
little bit. It was a terribly uncomfortable situation for me,
and obviously you saying I'm not going to do the
show without her in the beginning to network and me
saying it clearly didn't have the same effect, you know,
and so it was terribly awkward for me. You know,
(27:18):
Brian and she were dating at the time when this
all went down, which to me, us being completely oblivious
to me was the worst part, where it was like
all sort of part of this plan that was happening
and unfolding through over months. It was, you know, months
of that year, and you were dating Julian, so you
(27:41):
guys were off in that world, and then Brian was
off with Alyssa. He just recently. It was it was
about a year ago in France. We were on stage
at a panel that was filled with many, many people
and he just kind of paused, like he looked at
me like he forgot something. And I looked at him, like, what,
(28:01):
what's the problem. Why are you looking at me like that?
And he just looked at me while someone was asking
a question and just went, I'm so sorry, and I
was like sorry for what. I was like, are you
going somewhere? What's happening. He just shook his head and goes,
I'm so sorry. Because we had talked about it a
little on stage without talking about it, because still no
(28:23):
one was allowed to talk about it, and we got
off stage and he just looked at me and said,
I'm so sorry. That must have been a terrible time
for you. That's all I have to say. I mean,
it took him like twenty four years, but better late
than never, better late than never.
Speaker 1 (28:55):
I want to go back to something that you said
right before that, and you said, when I said the network,
you know it's she's doing it or you don't get me,
And you said that you know obviously when you tried that,
it didn't mean as much. And I want to say
that I disagree because I think had it been any
(29:20):
normal situation that we were in with them, you saying
that would have been enough. They would have chosen the
right path. And yes, do that now in this day
and age, it's not going to fly in any way,
shape or form. But your voice I think was appreciated,
(29:43):
and I think they I think they knew that they
couldn't lose you, but they were over a legal barrel,
and I don't want you to ever sell yourself short
in that scenario. I know that you fought for me,
and I know the tactics that they took with you,
(30:04):
but you know you did the right thing. You stood
up and you fought for what you believed in for
your friend, for the show. But that legal barrel that
was created was just far too much for them, and
(30:24):
you have to accept that also and understand that again.
You know, I just want everybody listening to to respect
the fact that it's hard for the two of us
to sit here and talk about this show in anything
but a positive light, because we know how much it
(30:46):
meant to the audience and to our fans, and to
the people that we hear from all the time that
talk about how it brought them closer to their families
or it helped them get through dark times when they
were younger, and that is something that the two of
us take very seriously. We love the fans, we love
(31:08):
the show. We're super respectful. So none of this is
to try to to try to tear any of that down.
And as I said before, there's no hate left behind.
We've all moved on, and we definitely wish everyone, you know, peace,
(31:29):
love and healing and all of that. I know I
have much bigger things in my life to worry and
concentrate on. However, you can't. One can't keep telling the
same story over and over and over again when it's
not the truth. And this podcast is in fact called
(31:49):
Let's be clear, So all right now, holla and I
are going to talk about something else. Okay, I have
a funny question. I mean, it's not funny, but it's
one that we get asked a lot in the panels
at the conventions, which is, would any of us ever
consider doing a reboot? And how would we even manage
(32:12):
to do it? Disclaimer being that we don't own the show,
so it's very hard for us.
Speaker 2 (32:18):
To to convince CBS to pull their heads out of
their asses and let us do it, and let us
do it the right way, let us do it right.
Speaker 1 (32:28):
But how would that? Would you be interested in that?
And what would that look like to you?
Speaker 2 (32:35):
Gosh? You know, it's a hard question to answer because
you know, I get asked about it weekly. Like I'm
not exaggerating, I hate the R word. I hate, you know,
the theory that we're going to reboot something to make
it better than it was.
Speaker 1 (32:50):
So then let's not say a reboot. What if we
do a continuation, but we've now fast forwarded so many years.
Speaker 2 (33:00):
Just you know, I have I have no problem doing it.
I just hope for better special effects. I hope for
you know, people to understand that this, this show and
this job meant so much to so many people around
the world. And this is why I you know, I
sometimes downplay it and people get angry at me, but
it's like it's hard to talk about how important it
(33:22):
was when you were part of it. But I just
think there's three generations now that have watched the show.
There are people that watch it every day and sometimes
twice a day, and you know, yeah, I would do it.
(33:42):
I would just hope that people would come to it
with an understanding that some things are bigger than you
and some things are more important than you know, personal feelings,
you know. In that being said, there's also split screen
and green screen, and people don't have to work with
each other. They don't want to. We can just make
it look like you do. But yeah, you know, I
(34:05):
just I think from the very beginning I've been trying
to say, this thing is bigger than all of us.
It's definitely bigger than me, and it still means a
lot to a lot of people. And I'm glad it
does because that means that, you know, everything that we
all went through actually still means something.
Speaker 1 (34:25):
Agreed. Yeh, agreed. I was trying to get a more
fun answer out of you.
Speaker 2 (34:30):
I know, okay, but it's too late. I'm already in
the dark and gloomy, gritty.
Speaker 1 (34:35):
I was trying to think, like, what would have happened
to your kids by now, because what did happen to
your kids? One? Like day and one is alive? Like
what's what's Chris is dead? Chris is his day?
Speaker 2 (34:50):
He had a terrible accident off of the Golden gate Bridge. No,
I'm just kidding. We can't kill Drew, even though wind
to kill Drew every day.
Speaker 1 (34:58):
Every day and other I haven't read that you had.
Speaker 2 (35:03):
No, yeah, Wyatt, he's the perfect child and supposedly in
the continuing I think it's the comic books. Yes, we
have comic books, in case anybody didn't now, and we
had novels like Connie wrote books after the show ended,
(35:23):
along with a few other writers. I had I finally
had the third kid, because everybody said she had a girl.
I think they both somebody has twins. I mean, there's
all sorts of another generation, which is why people were
always like, why didn't they just do the next generation?
And I was like, you'll have to ask the CEW
(35:45):
Paramount and CBS that question.
Speaker 1 (35:48):
I always say that Prue is now like, you're the
most powerful elder. You're an elder that's in the universe,
but come and kick physical ass all the time.
Speaker 2 (36:04):
That's the thing is, nobody really dies, so you technically
can do whatever you want technically.
Speaker 1 (36:12):
Right, yep, which I guess. I mean, I have no
when they when they asked me if I would come
for the finale, you said no. I said no, And
I didn't even ask, like how they would bring me
back because it's it's a fantasy world, so obviously there's
tons of different ways to do it, and they would
have been open to my suggestions. But yeah, I think
(36:36):
I didn't want to do the finale because at that
point it had been however many seasons, and yeah, I was,
you know, very separated.
Speaker 2 (36:46):
You were trying to distance yourself from it and move on. Yeah,
which is understandable.
Speaker 1 (36:52):
But I'm now an old lady and I'm like, that's okay.
I could still do some stunts. I'm not doing any
Come on, we can run around and heels still, and
I want a rocking chair and I want a car
hand thing. I can do that from a chair. And
(37:12):
she's got some grandkids now probably wait.
Speaker 2 (37:14):
They can go run around and heels. Drew wears heels
just fine.
Speaker 1 (37:19):
And your daughter's probably a witch. She is. Yeah, I've
never read these novels that Connie wrote. I'm gonna have
to try to track them down. Have you read them?
Speaker 2 (37:30):
And the comic books and comic books I always seem
to be doing laundry, so I'm not into those either. No,
oh thank you.
Speaker 1 (37:38):
No, that's not good.
Speaker 2 (37:40):
So we kind of bonded over sea, Shepherd, although you
were very militant about it, much more than I was.
You're like, we're going to this demonstration today. I was like,
it's Valentine's Day. You were like, yeah, let's go. So yeah,
I mean we had that in common, and we had
that sort of drive to be an activist in common.
(38:03):
And I think, especially with what has happened to see Shepherd,
there's clearly more work to be done. I think it's
about time for either one of us or both of
us to have our own foundation because right now, especially
with like what's happened to See Shepherd, it's hard to
know who to trust, and it's hard to know where trust,
(38:24):
where your money is going, and things like that. So
I'm producing a documentary about the Harbor Seals up here.
I just pledge my own money.
Speaker 1 (38:47):
There's obviously a lot of really good foundations, but there
is I'm always amazed at how much money is spent
on administration salaries as opposed to as opposed to the
bulk of the money going towards the animals. So also,
(39:07):
you know, for me, it was very hard with Sea
Shepherd because of the thing with Taiji and paid my
way there and went and gotten a lot of trouble
with Japan that didn't really want me to come back
for a while, and being there at the cove, and
(39:28):
that was extremely hard. Just like watching all of the
their campaign for the baby seals in Canada that are
club to death and then saying, Okay, why aren't you
still there? Well, it's going to die out. We've done
a great job and we've brought it down to a
certain level, which is what a lot of these foundations
(39:49):
do is they think, like, all right, so instead of
ten thousand seals, is now only one thousand seals. So
eventually that's going to be zero seals. But what happens
is once you disappear and you don't have a presence
there anymore, and you're not documenting it anymore, the thousand
seals turns into three thousand seals, which then turns into
(40:12):
five thousand seals, and then you have the problem again.
And I'm a firm believer in sticking with a campaign
until you get the result that you want.
Speaker 2 (40:24):
Right I think you know, with them, they had limited
resources even though they had the most of many and
they're you know, the focus would sway. But now with
Sea Shepherds no longer really Sea shepherd there's nobody in Taiji.
There's only Dolphin Project in Taiji. That's crap, you know.
Speaker 1 (40:42):
And I will say Dolphin Project how amazing because they
have stuck with it yea and poured a lot of
money into it.
Speaker 2 (40:50):
Very consistent with Lolita and very consistent with Taiji and
captives and rehabilitation. So they still get my vote.
Speaker 1 (41:01):
Yeah, they get my vote too. They've definitely proven to
be stewards of those dolphins and Taiji and the pilot
whales and the melon heads and all of that. They've
done a really beautiful job being stewards. I don't know
(41:24):
how we don't eradicate that situation, especially considering that it's
been proven that that meat is filled with mercury and
incredibly bad for you. And I was just talking to
a woman from Japan the other day, beautiful lady. She
did my makeup for People magazine and Hanoka, and we
(41:46):
were talking about it, and she was saying that nobody
really eats it anymore, that it's a very there's one area,
one area, and a certain generation that really eats it.
And say, well, of course that's because they are going
to continue claiming that they eat it because they can
(42:07):
hide under the cultural banner as opposed to what it's
truly about, which is financial. It's all about capturing those
dolphins that they then get to go sell for a
million dollars, two million dollars. That poor albino dolphin is
still in that small and I was there at that
Taiji Whale museum, and that is nothing no place for
(42:32):
anything to be living in, but they have to because
they're making so much money. These fishermen. Fishermen don't know
any other way, They don't want to know any other way.
They get a ton of money, and but they do.
They can't say, well, we're just greedy. We're just greedy,
(42:52):
So we're going to keep killing dolphins, and in the
most horrific way possible, because those still rods that they
put through their blowholes does not killed them right away.
It is incredibly painful. They've bleed out. They're separating mothers
from their babies. It is I've never seen something more horrific.
And for anybody who has not still doesn't know anything
about what's happening in the Cove and Taiji. There is
(43:14):
a documentary called The Cove. It's very good. You should
watch it. And then you had me go with you
to the protest in Miami.
Speaker 2 (43:26):
That was Lolita.
Speaker 1 (43:27):
Yeah, that was Lolita. Can you tell us a little
bit about Lolita?
Speaker 2 (43:32):
She unfortunately, you know, I don't know. There was also
someone who took over the Miami c Aquarium who was
I believe, pretending to have good faith in sending her home,
which is actually where I live now, because I moved
to sort of the neck of the woods where I
felt I could do the most and was most inspiring
(43:54):
to me. And she would have been rehabilitated here. But
I feel like, and I did at the time, that
they weren't being entirely honest, you know, talking about raising
funds and keeping them. I don't think this organization had
any real plans on releasing her. And the same with SeaWorld,
(44:16):
you know, like I did. I narrated the documentary on Quirky,
who is the longest held captive, and she's been there decades,
like Lalita was there decades. And you know, Lalita's case
was really tragic because her tank wasn't even a legal size,
so there were so many reasons, you know, that she
(44:38):
should have been the one that was released, and sadly
she passed away just recently under really suspect circumstances that
haven't totally been revealed yet, you know. And it was
me and Paul Watson and one other person who said
(45:00):
they have no intention of releasing her. This is all
just a smoke screen. It was all just a stall tactic,
and nobody really wanted to hear that, you know, But
with organizations like that, who their business is owning dolphins
and SeaWorld, there's very little hope. You know. We can
talk about it, we can make movies about it. We
(45:22):
can show how atrocious the tanks are and how dirty
and how bored they are, and how brilliant and smart
and how they're meant to live with their families and
be social, and we can do all that, but there's
nothing that's going to convince a corporation to change their
formula that's been making them money for decades without a
tidal wave of public opinion. And then fortunately there's just
(45:45):
too many people who still go to SeaWorld and buy
a ticket and basically fund abuse. There's just no other
way to put it. You're funding animal abuse.
Speaker 1 (45:55):
I get it, right, Like I get someone having a
kid and being like I want to I want my
child to see this killer whale and this dolphin or
this elephant or this I understand, but there are other
ways sure to see these animals, to witness There are
(46:19):
migrations that you can go see at any point in time,
And then you're also teaching your child about respecting another
being and what they're like in the wild. The corporations
have to have, yes, an outcry of human opinion, and
it's got to hit them in their wallets. They cannot
(46:42):
profit from it anymore. Once it becomes too expensive for
them to buy them and house them and they're just
not making the profit, that's when things might change. Also,
the regulations need to be better.
Speaker 2 (47:00):
Yeah, they're losing money now, they're actually getting sued for
lying to stockholders about how much they were actually losing
because of the blackfish effect that they call it. But
the fact of the matter is if you don't humanize,
and I don't like to do that with animals, but
if you don't humanize the issue, people don't really care
(47:24):
and go throughout their days. So like the campaign I
did with Peda was pretty smart because they said, you know,
moms shouldn't take their babies to SeaWorld because what happens is,
especially with orcas, the sons in the wild live with
their mothers their entire life, their entire life, they do
not leave their mothers, and in SeaWorld they separate the
(47:46):
babies from their moms, separate families and there's literally like
they scream out, shaking and crying when this happens, like
there's a family bond with orcas that we can't even
understand as humans because they have a whole different part
of their brain that is a sense of community, community
and family that we don't even have, Like they literally
(48:07):
have a different part of the brain that is just
for this. So we know enough to know this about them,
and we know that after five decades, this is torture
for them. And the only thing I can really do
without being a really big pain in the ass and
annoying is just tell people and inform people, let them
make their own decisions, and hopefully they'll decide. See world
(48:30):
is too expensive to watch something be miserable in a tank.
Speaker 1 (48:34):
Yeah, especially because there's other alternatives to seeing it. And
I'm sorry, go watch a documentary and show your child
through a documentary. It's far more interesting and far more
revealing than watching something be trained to do flips and
tricks because you're starving them with food and they're now
(48:56):
completely reliant upon a human being, because that's not natural,
that's not how they conduct themselves in the wild. So
at least have a true wild, authentic experience versus what
you're getting at a place like SeaWorld. I think. I
think the best idea I've heard in a long time
is as starting a foundation.
Speaker 2 (49:17):
Yeah that too. Well, we have a few ideas.
Speaker 1 (49:20):
I mean we also have a deep love of well
of all animals, but horses. We bonded over horses for
a very long time. We still do. We both do
rescue work with horses. I just rescue you two when
got cancer in one eye has to be taken out.
Speaker 2 (49:38):
Yeah, that's unfortunate. But they do adapt. They do adapt,
especially if they have a buddy.
Speaker 1 (49:43):
She found a buddy at the kill pen, or her
buddy found her.
Speaker 2 (49:47):
Yeah, so that helps keep them calm and secure.
Speaker 1 (49:51):
And dogs, we had lots of conversations about dogs and
how to help and especially with how with high kill shelters. Yeah,
I mean we do have a lot of We have
a lot of We have a lot of fires in
the oven right now. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (50:06):
We have a lot of common interest and we kind
of always have and I think the ones we have cooking,
you know, are kind of a culmination of all those things.
I would agree, thank you, sure anytime? Great, No, not anytime.
(50:27):
Let's see in like two hours, Yeah, great, awesome, All
right
Speaker 1 (50:30):
Well that's let's be Clear with Shannon Doherty with special
guests Holly Murray Colms love her, Love you guys, Thanks
for listening.
This is Let's be Clear with Shannon Doherty. Hi everyone,
This is Let's be Clear with Shannon Doherty, Part two
of my interview with Hollywood combs. Hi Hall, so good.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
We had to do it again.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
It's kind of like where we left off. We were,
you know, talking about Charmed and what transpired and what happened.
And you know, I don't know if the statement was
made in her book or if it was on like
her press tour. I don't really know because I didn't
at that point in time pay all that close attention
(00:41):
to it. And I know that people are really interested
in what actually happened. It's it's a question that you
and I get. I think when we do the conventions
and we go on these panels, people have asked us
and I sort of would say, oh, it's wait for
the podcast, wait for the podcast. So now it's here,
let's be clear. Let's be clear. You know, I just
(01:05):
want to make sure that everybody knows that there's zero
hate here. The past is definitely done and over with,
and it's not even like we really talk about this
at all. It's I think this is coming up because
it's a question that I get asked on an absolute
regular basis. At every convention that we do, every single
(01:27):
you know fan that I run into on the streets
always asked me why did you quit? Why did you quit?
Why did you quit? And the narrative that I quit
was assigned to me by other people, wasn't assigned to me.
I didn't assign it to myself. And I think I'm
just at that point in my life where I don't
want to keep lying about something, and I don't want
(01:50):
to keep lying about something that meant the absolute world
to me, something that I went to I loved doing.
I loved going to that job, I loved the people
that I worked with. And I had a father who
was extremely sick and had a lot of medical needs,
and this show really helped me to provide for an
(02:14):
entire family. So when my livelihood got taken away, it
was extremely hard. I still went with the narrative and
the story that everybody wanted me to go with. But
now at my age and dealing with stage four cancer,
I just don't feel like I have to keep telling
a lie. I feel like it's okay to be honest.
(02:37):
So one of the biggest sort of myths out there
was that I quit.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
Well, that story has a backstory and then another story.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
Yeah, it has a lot of backstories, which we'll go into,
but just to you know, sort of address that. I
don't think that there's anybody in their right mind that
would quit a hit show that's paying them a good
amount of money that they actually really enjoy working on,
(03:09):
which was my deal. Like I enjoyed it.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
Yeah you did. You were very dedicated. You like to
show up for stunt rehearsals a day early and do
your wardrobe a week early. Was really annoying.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
Well, I mean Eilish was like so good prepared.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
You were overly prepared.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
I was. I liked to be prepared. But sort of
during that time period after the first season, when everybody
sort of got acclimated, I think things obviously started to
change and the show got a lot more attention and
us girls got individual attention, and that may have caused some.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
Yeah I heard that. I mean we've talked about that,
but I never knew that because I wasn't the one
doing the maximum covers. I think I did one terrible
cover and they gave me very big boobs and I
was like, who.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
Is she they did? I remember that cover?
Speaker 2 (04:02):
It was Stuff?
Speaker 1 (04:04):
Was it? Stuff Magazine?
Speaker 2 (04:06):
They made me like six feet tall and gave me
really big boobs, and I was like, Okay, that wasn't
the picture I approved. By the way, I had final
approval on the photo on the cover, and it was
I mean, it was a version of the photo I approved.
But that was the only like naked naked maxim type
(04:27):
photo shoot I did. And I remember saying to my
publicist at the time. I was like, shouldn't I take
like a couple of weeks. Well, I was in my
twenties maybe three, to like work out and look good
for this, And he was like, honey, no, they airbrushed gizell.
They don't even care what you look like. And I
was like, ouch.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
By the way, Stuff magazine the name, it sounds like
a porno magazine.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
Yeah, well look like it. But actually the cover shot
was the one I was most comfortable with because I
just wore my g I wasn't wearing like red lingerie
and I was topless, but my hair was covering my boob.
So that was the one. I was like, cool, I
can swing this.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
I remember this dis cover. It's very sexy.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
Yeah, I thought so. I mean, if I was six
foot in head double d's. Yeah, don't look it up.
Oh my god, woman, let some things die. Okay, so
they weren't double d's. They were like seas but still.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
Hey, you never know, I could go short. Those aren't
those are big?
Speaker 2 (05:34):
Yeah? Yeah, it's too big for my flag foot too.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
Look at your abs.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
Yeah, I got out and they got longer. That's why
I mean, like I got long, I got tall.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
Yeah, you know, they definitely stretched the torso.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
They did because I have no torso.
Speaker 1 (05:51):
I mean, you look good though I was.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
You know, the the real picture was fine too.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
Though, Yeah, I think I did. Like FHM and Lingerie
and then Maxim it.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
Was you guys were on the circuit.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
We were, but it was more of like all the
other you know, yes, those magazines where they served a
purpose back then, but it was like the people magazines
or the individual TV guide covers or the this or
the that or the you know. In my case, I
guess like my my contract was that I got you know,
(06:27):
I was the highest paid because I was the one
that the network you know hired and and and uh
sort of green light the show based on. So it
was something my attorney negotiated in there and that caused
you know, riffed once once Alyssa found out that was definitelyentually.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
Yeah, and Smelling did some backdoor deals. I don't know
why it was privy to all the backdoor deals, but
people tell me everything. I guess you do.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
Have a plethora of knowledge that like didn't even really
pertain to you. It was kind of wild.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
Yeah, and I keep every text an email, so truth
be told. Let's be clear.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
Yeah, I do too.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
Oh, I know this, I do know about you.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
Yeah, some people don't love that about me, but m h,
that's all right. I just like keeping all that stuff
because I think it's really good like reference. If somebody
is saying something that transpired that didn't transpire, then I
can go back in the email and be like, well,
actually here's the email.
Speaker 2 (07:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:34):
Yeah, I think that's like the attorney side of me
coming out. M h. Right. So there were like all
sorts of little jealousies. You went to the hospital, and
that was a little bit of an issue, you know.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
I asked, uh, it was funny. I don't know why
they put me in a room with Jonathan Levin of
all people. It wasn't Jim, wasn't Aarin. Well, Aaron had
kind of was having own health problems at that point,
but it wasn't Jim, and it wasn't Duke, who were
by my bedside when I woke up from surgery. So
it was interesting that when I had a problem after
(08:12):
this all transpired and I wanted to discuss leaving the
show and all my reasons why they put me in
a room with Jonathan Levin, which I don't know that
I had seen since we went to network, and you
had told me about your background with him, which is
varied and interesting, and he obviously has a very fond spot,
(08:33):
shall we say, for you, And I don't know why
they chose him to do this meeting, but I can
tell you that during the meeting where I said this
is not the show I signed on to do, I
hear that you're looking for other people. And it's not
about the list of names. It's about this was not
a show that I wanted to do without Shannon. She
(08:54):
didn't want to do it without me. Therefore I don't
want to do it without her, and that should be
fairly clear. And he hadars in his eyes already because
he could see I was getting upset. As you can
hear me getting upset, And I said, why would you
hire her again just to fire her? And he said,
we didn't mean to, And he said, but we've been
(09:16):
backed into this corner. He said, you know, we're basically
in a position where it's one or the other. We
were told that it's her me and Alyssa has threatened
to sue us for a hostile workplace environment, which because
she went to the therapist or the mediator or the
corporate mediator, whatever the heck his title is, she built
(09:40):
a case for herself where she was documenting every time
she felt uncomfortable on set and for whatever reason, whereas
you and I refused to speak to him. So that's
where the deck was stacked.
Speaker 1 (09:53):
I always think that, like when somebody does that, you
you know, I would as a producer call them on it.
And I know that that's a huge risk and it
was definitely one that they didn't want to take.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
And what's funny is that by today's standard, it wouldn't
even qualify because there were no onset, you know, brawls.
There was no either even like harsh words exchanged. It
was all behind the scenes, it was all in the trailer.
It was nothing that anybody or any of our guest
stars ever noticed or noted. And you know, there's not
a director that would not work with you. Again, there's
(10:26):
not any one of our crew members that did not
have a great time working with you. So by today's standards,
it wouldn't fucking fly, right, And I don't think being
laid as a teenager on a set called nine O
two one zero would fly for being fired either. Like
it's just it's just doesn't make any sense anymore. There
(10:47):
are people that actually behave badly and get away with it,
and there are men that you know, abuse people, throw things,
screaming fits and get away with it. Like I don't
think people understand that that never happen here unless you
were there. No one understands that.
Speaker 1 (11:05):
Yeah, I mean, I you know, listen, I lived a
you know, a year after that, sort of replaying everything
in my brain and really like trying to find those
moments where we and I couldn't find them, like there
was no like we never had it out, like we
(11:28):
never not privately or public public. Right, I don't ever
remember being mean to her on set. I actually, like
I remember an episode that I directed where you know,
she did something on the Christmas break and they asked
me to work around some things with her, and I
(11:49):
had no problem with it, Like I couldn't have been
more kind and understanding, And the only thing was that
it was. There were like a couple of couple of
things that sort of stood out to me. One was,
you know, her mom had that like safe searching thing
or whatever, and she like showed up one day and said, oh, well,
(12:10):
you know, I designed your website and it's unsafe searching now,
and I was like, can you please take it down?
Like my father doesn't feel well, he's not doing well,
and I sort of want to give this to him
as a project so he has something to occupy his
time with. And I mean, I have no idea if
(12:32):
that was a factor or not, but it happened. They
you know, did yours as well, but you allowed it,
and because why wouldn't you didn't have a dad that
needed something to do.
Speaker 2 (12:44):
He's floating around out there, right.
Speaker 1 (12:48):
And then the whole you know, paid discrepancy, even though
it was so incredibly minor not even worth a conversation really,
But once that all came out and her and I
had the conversation, and my attorneys went to Spelling and said,
this is not okay. You can't be doing you know,
(13:09):
side deals to someone.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
It was it was me that told you that there
was another deal, So why wasn't I fired?
Speaker 1 (13:15):
Right?
Speaker 2 (13:16):
Yeah, And I think you know previously, you know, you
had discussed with them that the tension was getting high
and that you didn't want to replay of what had
happened before, So you were preemptively trying to work it out.
And I also wonder in the back of their minds
if they didn't choose you because they knew they had
(13:37):
done it before and nine O two one zero went on.
I almost wonder if they were okay with the publicity,
if they were okay with we've done this before, it
worked out, fine, we can do it again.
Speaker 1 (13:53):
I think that's a valid, valid point. I think back
then the male mentality was to pit the women against
each other anyway in order to keep them controlled.
Speaker 2 (14:15):
Yeah. No, they didn't want us working together. They wanted
to keep us segregated and separated and not negotiating together
because then you have a friends situation where everybody's getting
paid the same amount, and that's not what they wanted
to do, you know, like I said before, I ended
up doing the most hours for the least pay because
I just didn't ask for raises. I didn't want more
(14:36):
to be taken out of the budget. I didn't want
to have no money for guest stars like I was producing. Then.
I knew that we had to get rid of Brian
for some episodes to afford Nick Lache. But at the
time when I had a three month old baby and
I'm doing more hours than anyone and people are being
let out for baseball games, you know, I sat in
(14:58):
my trailer and I was like, and I said to Jim,
and I said to Duke. I was like, I don't
need to do this. I don't want to do this.
This is a second time. I don't want to do this,
and I just I don't know how you expect me
to pick up all the pieces and go home to
a three month old baby and not be ragged like.
It just wasn't fair. It just wasn't fair.
Speaker 1 (15:20):
Yeah, because when I was gone, Once I was gone,
it really did fall completely on your shoulders, because at
least while I was there, it was on my shoulders.
And I would share it with you because we had
the same mindset about the show. But then once I
got fired, it was all on you.
Speaker 2 (15:38):
Yeah, you know, and it took you know, the writers
were good about letting me work through the process of
going through the change and grieving your loss and then
being awkward with Rose coming in. Yes, Prue and Page,
but I'm using their real life names because that's what
I had to deal with. And you know, I had
(15:58):
said to Jonathan, it's not the show that I want
to do. It's not the show I signed up for.
And you know, the conversation got to the point where
he said not just threatened to sue me, but said
he would sue me and dock my wages if I
worked anywhere.
Speaker 1 (16:18):
Else, right, I remember, including being a backer at a
grocery store. They would still dock your wages.
Speaker 2 (16:24):
Yeah, I said, well that's because I started laughing, like
through my tears. I started laughing, and I was like,
what does that even mean. He said, we will sue
you for what we think we will have lost on
the show because of your departure, and we will dock
your wages to regain those numbers. And I said, well,
what if I go to like Arizona and I bag groceries.
(16:45):
He goes, we will dock your wages. It really was like, suddenly,
I'm married to the mob. They forced me to go
back to a show that I wanted nothing to do with,
and it was very emotional for me, and it was
very emotional for both of us. And you couldn't understand
how I couldn't do anything, and frankly, neither did I,
because my voice meant nothing. And that's what was so
(17:08):
funny to me. I was like, you're telling me I'm
so valuable that you can't do the show without me,
but yet my voice and my feelings and my thoughts
mean nothing.
Speaker 1 (17:17):
Well, imagine could they couldn't lose two sisters? Like it's
fine to, you know, go into a four season replacing
one sister and all of a sudden she's dead and
you have her direct her own death without telling her
what she's doing. But to lose two, for sure, I
think at that point the audience would have turned because
the truth would have come out at that point, and
(17:39):
eventually those people would have turned it off, which is
why it's I think, correct me if I'm wrong. But
you and I have spoken about this. It's hard to
have even this conversation publicly because we are so respectful
of the audience and the fans and how much they
(18:01):
love the show, and they bond with the show when
they think of us all as sisters, so as we are.
You don't want to break that.
Speaker 2 (18:08):
You don't want to burst anybody's bubble. But the fact
of the matter is, this is what I say. It
is like a real life family. We did have common goals,
and we tried to keep it together, and we did
get along famously for a long time, and then you
just have life differences where sisters, as far as I know,
from having no siblings myself, families, you know, stop talking
to each other, or people come back together and reunite
(18:30):
or they don't, you know, And it's just it's a painful.
It's a painful bond and it was a painful time.
And for it to be put to me the way
it was was it felt like blackmail. And then try
acting through that and making people want to see it.
Speaker 1 (18:51):
While you succeeded, eh, I don't know, people still wanted
to see it. I think people inherently instinctually understand that
it was like once I was gone, it was you
that was the glue between the new Threesome and I
think it's why when people really think of Charmed, it
(19:13):
becomes yes, prou will always be there, but there's a
big piper element because I think it's obvious like you were,
you know, hurt, you were all of those things. I
think that shows and how you dealt with it after.
But during the rest of those years, you were the glue.
Speaker 2 (19:33):
Yeah, you know. And it was it was tough because
you know, none of this was Rose's fault, and she
was coming into this situation quite awkwardly. Even though she
was a tough guy, she wasn't. This was awkward for
her and I had I had empathy for her for that,
and I could see how difficult this was for her
to just jump into not just being a show that
(19:55):
was already running, but she had never done TV before,
so there was a huge learning curve, you know. So
I was sensitive to that fact. And really my only consolation,
and it wasn't a very big one, was that I
said to Jonathan, you guys will not have the privilege
of saying that you fired her again. And I said,
the only thing that I'm going to ask of you
(20:17):
is that she gets to put out whatever statement she
wants to. And I said, if anybody talks about it,
then I'm I'm going to be a very big problem.
Speaker 1 (20:27):
I mean, what's really funny about that is that I
had a pair play deal, and when all of this
went down, I was like, Okay, they can't burn me
a second time, right, That's not fair. It's not fair
to me. So I really wanted to sue them for
my payer play deal, which would mean that for as
long as you guys went on, I would continue being
(20:50):
paid and my contract would be honored as far as
a paycheck goes and profit participation and everything that was
in my contract and my representatives and remember them looking
at me at the time and said, no, no, no,
your career won't survive another firing. So we're just going
to say that you chose to leave. And I started
(21:14):
I remember I started laughing, going, who is going to
believe that I'm crazy enough to leave a hit.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
Show or to direct an episode that you died in
and not such a great fashion. We would have made
it far more spectacular than that, for sure.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
It wouldn't have been just a bookcase falling on you
and me being thrown through the air and through a
door wall or whatever.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
I had both went through the wall and looked like
we were taking a nap.
Speaker 1 (21:42):
I would have blown up, you know, I would have
had far more spectacular. Somebody take over your body and
you blow me up, and let's see how you deal
with killing her sister for the next season. I would
have done something, you know, a lot more. But I'm
going to say I was still young. I was twenty seven, eight,
twenty nine, somewhere in that range, and really thought that
(22:05):
I should listen to everybody else about my career. And
it's one of It's not like a huge regret because
at the end of the day, it's just a TV
show and it's just one aspect of my life when
my life is about so many other things. But I
wish that I had been older and wiser, because I
(22:25):
definitely would have sued, and I would have been honest
about the situation, because the rumors followed me regardless, right,
and so the rumors were there, but now I wasn't
getting paid and I was made out to. It makes
you look crazy when you want to you when you
leave a hit show only after three seasons. I think
(22:46):
that the people in the industry and the business knew
what happened because word.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
Spread not necessarily though, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:55):
I mean we ran into it a couple of times.
It was it was, It was awkward, and I think
I said much earlier that you know, there are things
that you can forgive and forget, and I was pretty
harsh saying that I would never forgive or forget. And
I was contemplating that again today and yesterday, and I thought,
(23:17):
is there forgiveness? I think there's acceptance, which as you
get older, you accept that a situation happened. But acceptance
and moving on with your life does not equate to forgiveness.
You just learn a lesson and look at somebody differently
(23:39):
and move on.
Speaker 2 (23:43):
I think we were all just cogs in that wheel.
I think they knew how to make money and they
did it well.
Speaker 1 (23:49):
You know, I was fine being and I know that
this doesn't sound very good for me, but I was
fine being a cog in that wal, to be honest,
because it was a great show and it was something
that I enjoyed. The more it progressed and the more
I got to do my stunts and I had that
amazing stunt team, it was. It was fun. I looked
(24:09):
forward to going to work and once they started letting
me direct. I was in my element. I was assuming
that for season I would direct something like five episodes
of four episodes.
Speaker 2 (24:24):
It was.
Speaker 1 (24:25):
It gave me a lot of opportunities that I was
incredibly grateful for. But then when that was sort of
snatched away without even a fair trial, that's what's upsetting.
Speaker 2 (24:36):
Without a warning though, either. I mean, I remember when
you called me and we were on a hiatus and
you were working and we hadn't really talked in a minute,
and you said that they had just fired you. I said,
that's impossible, it's impossible. I was like, you just directed
the last episode. That's impossible. Like I really was like,
you're mistaken, You're mistaken, because it was just so preposterous.
(24:59):
It was so ridiculous that it was like shocking, and
you said you need to do something, and I was like,
it's just not even happening, and it's so dumb, so dumb.
Speaker 1 (25:11):
I will say that I think Rose stepped in nicely,
and that, as you said, was very hard. Yeah. I
know that there was some press things trying to pit
us against each other, and well that's what they did
in that I kept on referring to a photo of
the two of us at an Entertainment Weekly party in
(25:33):
New York City where we hung out, and we're both
smiling and happy with each other because there was no reason.
It wasn't Rose's fault. There was no reason for me
to have an issue with her, and she did a
great job, and she brought something quirky and different to
the show. But it was definitely you that kept that
(25:57):
train moving forward and being the person that cared oh
so deeply besides me for it and making sure that
the fans got what they needed out of that show.
You were very dedicated to that.
Speaker 2 (26:13):
Cause yeah, I was. I still am, you know, And
that's why going to cons like is strangely, you know,
it's astonishing to me that it meant, you know, half
as much to other people as it did to me,
because I really thought I was going crazy for a
little bit where I was like, I just I just
(26:34):
so valiantly wanted to make it good and wanted to
make it real and for whatever reasons I can't really
even explain now, So you know, part of part of
it is work ethic, part of it is not wanting
to fail, you know, but it was it was a
big deal to me.
Speaker 1 (26:54):
Wow, anything that you want to add, I.
Speaker 2 (26:57):
Don't know, I got a little heated, calmed down a
little bit. It was a terribly uncomfortable situation for me,
and obviously you saying I'm not going to do the
show without her in the beginning to network and me
saying it clearly didn't have the same effect, you know,
and so it was terribly awkward for me. You know,
(27:18):
Brian and she were dating at the time when this
all went down, which to me, us being completely oblivious
to me was the worst part, where it was like
all sort of part of this plan that was happening
and unfolding through over months. It was, you know, months
of that year, and you were dating Julian, so you
(27:41):
guys were off in that world, and then Brian was
off with Alyssa. He just recently. It was it was
about a year ago in France. We were on stage
at a panel that was filled with many, many people
and he just kind of paused, like he looked at
me like he forgot something. And I looked at him, like, what,
(28:01):
what's the problem. Why are you looking at me like that?
And he just looked at me while someone was asking
a question and just went, I'm so sorry, and I
was like sorry for what. I was like, are you
going somewhere? What's happening. He just shook his head and goes,
I'm so sorry. Because we had talked about it a
little on stage without talking about it, because still no
(28:23):
one was allowed to talk about it, and we got
off stage and he just looked at me and said,
I'm so sorry. That must have been a terrible time
for you. That's all I have to say. I mean,
it took him like twenty four years, but better late
than never, better late than never.
Speaker 1 (28:55):
I want to go back to something that you said
right before that, and you said, when I said the network,
you know it's she's doing it or you don't get me,
And you said that you know obviously when you tried that,
it didn't mean as much. And I want to say
that I disagree because I think had it been any
(29:20):
normal situation that we were in with them, you saying
that would have been enough. They would have chosen the
right path. And yes, do that now in this day
and age, it's not going to fly in any way,
shape or form. But your voice I think was appreciated,
(29:43):
and I think they I think they knew that they
couldn't lose you, but they were over a legal barrel,
and I don't want you to ever sell yourself short
in that scenario. I know that you fought for me,
and I know the tactics that they took with you,
(30:04):
but you know you did the right thing. You stood
up and you fought for what you believed in for
your friend, for the show. But that legal barrel that
was created was just far too much for them, and
(30:24):
you have to accept that also and understand that again.
You know, I just want everybody listening to to respect
the fact that it's hard for the two of us
to sit here and talk about this show in anything
but a positive light, because we know how much it
(30:46):
meant to the audience and to our fans, and to
the people that we hear from all the time that
talk about how it brought them closer to their families
or it helped them get through dark times when they
were younger, and that is something that the two of
us take very seriously. We love the fans, we love
(31:08):
the show. We're super respectful. So none of this is
to try to to try to tear any of that down.
And as I said before, there's no hate left behind.
We've all moved on, and we definitely wish everyone, you know, peace,
(31:29):
love and healing and all of that. I know I
have much bigger things in my life to worry and
concentrate on. However, you can't. One can't keep telling the
same story over and over and over again when it's
not the truth. And this podcast is in fact called
(31:49):
Let's be clear, So all right now, holla and I
are going to talk about something else. Okay, I have
a funny question. I mean, it's not funny, but it's
one that we get asked a lot in the panels
at the conventions, which is, would any of us ever
consider doing a reboot? And how would we even manage
(32:12):
to do it? Disclaimer being that we don't own the show,
so it's very hard for us.
Speaker 2 (32:18):
To to convince CBS to pull their heads out of
their asses and let us do it, and let us
do it the right way, let us do it right.
Speaker 1 (32:28):
But how would that? Would you be interested in that?
And what would that look like to you?
Speaker 2 (32:35):
Gosh? You know, it's a hard question to answer because
you know, I get asked about it weekly. Like I'm
not exaggerating, I hate the R word. I hate, you know,
the theory that we're going to reboot something to make
it better than it was.
Speaker 1 (32:50):
So then let's not say a reboot. What if we
do a continuation, but we've now fast forwarded so many years.
Speaker 2 (33:00):
Just you know, I have I have no problem doing it.
I just hope for better special effects. I hope for
you know, people to understand that this, this show and
this job meant so much to so many people around
the world. And this is why I you know, I
sometimes downplay it and people get angry at me, but
it's like it's hard to talk about how important it
(33:22):
was when you were part of it. But I just
think there's three generations now that have watched the show.
There are people that watch it every day and sometimes
twice a day, and you know, yeah, I would do it.
(33:42):
I would just hope that people would come to it
with an understanding that some things are bigger than you
and some things are more important than you know, personal feelings,
you know. In that being said, there's also split screen
and green screen, and people don't have to work with
each other. They don't want to. We can just make
it look like you do. But yeah, you know, I
(34:05):
just I think from the very beginning I've been trying
to say, this thing is bigger than all of us.
It's definitely bigger than me, and it still means a
lot to a lot of people. And I'm glad it
does because that means that, you know, everything that we
all went through actually still means something.
Speaker 1 (34:25):
Agreed. Yeh, agreed. I was trying to get a more
fun answer out of you.
Speaker 2 (34:30):
I know, okay, but it's too late. I'm already in
the dark and gloomy, gritty.
Speaker 1 (34:35):
I was trying to think, like, what would have happened
to your kids by now, because what did happen to
your kids? One? Like day and one is alive? Like
what's what's Chris is dead? Chris is his day?
Speaker 2 (34:50):
He had a terrible accident off of the Golden gate Bridge. No,
I'm just kidding. We can't kill Drew, even though wind
to kill Drew every day.
Speaker 1 (34:58):
Every day and other I haven't read that you had.
Speaker 2 (35:03):
No, yeah, Wyatt, he's the perfect child and supposedly in
the continuing I think it's the comic books. Yes, we
have comic books, in case anybody didn't now, and we
had novels like Connie wrote books after the show ended,
(35:23):
along with a few other writers. I had I finally
had the third kid, because everybody said she had a girl.
I think they both somebody has twins. I mean, there's
all sorts of another generation, which is why people were
always like, why didn't they just do the next generation?
And I was like, you'll have to ask the CEW
(35:45):
Paramount and CBS that question.
Speaker 1 (35:48):
I always say that Prue is now like, you're the
most powerful elder. You're an elder that's in the universe,
but come and kick physical ass all the time.
Speaker 2 (36:04):
That's the thing is, nobody really dies, so you technically
can do whatever you want technically.
Speaker 1 (36:12):
Right, yep, which I guess. I mean, I have no
when they when they asked me if I would come
for the finale, you said no. I said no, And
I didn't even ask, like how they would bring me
back because it's it's a fantasy world, so obviously there's
tons of different ways to do it, and they would
have been open to my suggestions. But yeah, I think
(36:36):
I didn't want to do the finale because at that
point it had been however many seasons, and yeah, I was,
you know, very separated.
Speaker 2 (36:46):
You were trying to distance yourself from it and move on. Yeah,
which is understandable.
Speaker 1 (36:52):
But I'm now an old lady and I'm like, that's okay.
I could still do some stunts. I'm not doing any
Come on, we can run around and heels still, and
I want a rocking chair and I want a car
hand thing. I can do that from a chair. And
(37:12):
she's got some grandkids now probably wait.
Speaker 2 (37:14):
They can go run around and heels. Drew wears heels
just fine.
Speaker 1 (37:19):
And your daughter's probably a witch. She is. Yeah, I've
never read these novels that Connie wrote. I'm gonna have
to try to track them down. Have you read them?
Speaker 2 (37:30):
And the comic books and comic books I always seem
to be doing laundry, so I'm not into those either. No,
oh thank you.
Speaker 1 (37:38):
No, that's not good.
Speaker 2 (37:40):
So we kind of bonded over sea, Shepherd, although you
were very militant about it, much more than I was.
You're like, we're going to this demonstration today. I was like,
it's Valentine's Day. You were like, yeah, let's go. So yeah,
I mean we had that in common, and we had
that sort of drive to be an activist in common.
(38:03):
And I think, especially with what has happened to see Shepherd,
there's clearly more work to be done. I think it's
about time for either one of us or both of
us to have our own foundation because right now, especially
with like what's happened to See Shepherd, it's hard to
know who to trust, and it's hard to know where trust,
(38:24):
where your money is going, and things like that. So
I'm producing a documentary about the Harbor Seals up here.
I just pledge my own money.
Speaker 1 (38:47):
There's obviously a lot of really good foundations, but there
is I'm always amazed at how much money is spent
on administration salaries as opposed to as opposed to the
bulk of the money going towards the animals. So also,
(39:07):
you know, for me, it was very hard with Sea
Shepherd because of the thing with Taiji and paid my
way there and went and gotten a lot of trouble
with Japan that didn't really want me to come back
for a while, and being there at the cove, and
(39:28):
that was extremely hard. Just like watching all of the
their campaign for the baby seals in Canada that are
club to death and then saying, Okay, why aren't you
still there? Well, it's going to die out. We've done
a great job and we've brought it down to a
certain level, which is what a lot of these foundations
(39:49):
do is they think, like, all right, so instead of
ten thousand seals, is now only one thousand seals. So
eventually that's going to be zero seals. But what happens
is once you disappear and you don't have a presence
there anymore, and you're not documenting it anymore, the thousand
seals turns into three thousand seals, which then turns into
(40:12):
five thousand seals, and then you have the problem again.
And I'm a firm believer in sticking with a campaign
until you get the result that you want.
Speaker 2 (40:24):
Right I think you know, with them, they had limited
resources even though they had the most of many and
they're you know, the focus would sway. But now with
Sea Shepherds no longer really Sea shepherd there's nobody in Taiji.
There's only Dolphin Project in Taiji. That's crap, you know.
Speaker 1 (40:42):
And I will say Dolphin Project how amazing because they
have stuck with it yea and poured a lot of
money into it.
Speaker 2 (40:50):
Very consistent with Lolita and very consistent with Taiji and
captives and rehabilitation. So they still get my vote.
Speaker 1 (41:01):
Yeah, they get my vote too. They've definitely proven to
be stewards of those dolphins and Taiji and the pilot
whales and the melon heads and all of that. They've
done a really beautiful job being stewards. I don't know
(41:24):
how we don't eradicate that situation, especially considering that it's
been proven that that meat is filled with mercury and
incredibly bad for you. And I was just talking to
a woman from Japan the other day, beautiful lady. She
did my makeup for People magazine and Hanoka, and we
(41:46):
were talking about it, and she was saying that nobody
really eats it anymore, that it's a very there's one area,
one area, and a certain generation that really eats it.
And say, well, of course that's because they are going
to continue claiming that they eat it because they can
(42:07):
hide under the cultural banner as opposed to what it's
truly about, which is financial. It's all about capturing those
dolphins that they then get to go sell for a
million dollars, two million dollars. That poor albino dolphin is
still in that small and I was there at that
Taiji Whale museum, and that is nothing no place for
(42:32):
anything to be living in, but they have to because
they're making so much money. These fishermen. Fishermen don't know
any other way, They don't want to know any other way.
They get a ton of money, and but they do.
They can't say, well, we're just greedy. We're just greedy,
(42:52):
So we're going to keep killing dolphins, and in the
most horrific way possible, because those still rods that they
put through their blowholes does not killed them right away.
It is incredibly painful. They've bleed out. They're separating mothers
from their babies. It is I've never seen something more horrific.
And for anybody who has not still doesn't know anything
about what's happening in the Cove and Taiji. There is
(43:14):
a documentary called The Cove. It's very good. You should
watch it. And then you had me go with you
to the protest in Miami.
Speaker 2 (43:26):
That was Lolita.
Speaker 1 (43:27):
Yeah, that was Lolita. Can you tell us a little
bit about Lolita?
Speaker 2 (43:32):
She unfortunately, you know, I don't know. There was also
someone who took over the Miami c Aquarium who was
I believe, pretending to have good faith in sending her home,
which is actually where I live now, because I moved
to sort of the neck of the woods where I
felt I could do the most and was most inspiring
(43:54):
to me. And she would have been rehabilitated here. But
I feel like, and I did at the time, that
they weren't being entirely honest, you know, talking about raising
funds and keeping them. I don't think this organization had
any real plans on releasing her. And the same with SeaWorld,
(44:16):
you know, like I did. I narrated the documentary on Quirky,
who is the longest held captive, and she's been there decades,
like Lalita was there decades. And you know, Lalita's case
was really tragic because her tank wasn't even a legal size,
so there were so many reasons, you know, that she
(44:38):
should have been the one that was released, and sadly
she passed away just recently under really suspect circumstances that
haven't totally been revealed yet, you know. And it was
me and Paul Watson and one other person who said
(45:00):
they have no intention of releasing her. This is all
just a smoke screen. It was all just a stall tactic,
and nobody really wanted to hear that, you know, But
with organizations like that, who their business is owning dolphins
and SeaWorld, there's very little hope. You know. We can
talk about it, we can make movies about it. We
(45:22):
can show how atrocious the tanks are and how dirty
and how bored they are, and how brilliant and smart
and how they're meant to live with their families and
be social, and we can do all that, but there's
nothing that's going to convince a corporation to change their
formula that's been making them money for decades without a
tidal wave of public opinion. And then fortunately there's just
(45:45):
too many people who still go to SeaWorld and buy
a ticket and basically fund abuse. There's just no other
way to put it. You're funding animal abuse.
Speaker 1 (45:55):
I get it, right, Like I get someone having a
kid and being like I want to I want my
child to see this killer whale and this dolphin or
this elephant or this I understand, but there are other
ways sure to see these animals, to witness There are
(46:19):
migrations that you can go see at any point in time,
And then you're also teaching your child about respecting another
being and what they're like in the wild. The corporations
have to have, yes, an outcry of human opinion, and
it's got to hit them in their wallets. They cannot
(46:42):
profit from it anymore. Once it becomes too expensive for
them to buy them and house them and they're just
not making the profit, that's when things might change. Also,
the regulations need to be better.
Speaker 2 (47:00):
Yeah, they're losing money now, they're actually getting sued for
lying to stockholders about how much they were actually losing
because of the blackfish effect that they call it. But
the fact of the matter is if you don't humanize,
and I don't like to do that with animals, but
if you don't humanize the issue, people don't really care
(47:24):
and go throughout their days. So like the campaign I
did with Peda was pretty smart because they said, you know,
moms shouldn't take their babies to SeaWorld because what happens is,
especially with orcas, the sons in the wild live with
their mothers their entire life, their entire life, they do
not leave their mothers, and in SeaWorld they separate the
(47:46):
babies from their moms, separate families and there's literally like
they scream out, shaking and crying when this happens, like
there's a family bond with orcas that we can't even
understand as humans because they have a whole different part
of their brain that is a sense of community, community
and family that we don't even have, Like they literally
(48:07):
have a different part of the brain that is just
for this. So we know enough to know this about them,
and we know that after five decades, this is torture
for them. And the only thing I can really do
without being a really big pain in the ass and
annoying is just tell people and inform people, let them
make their own decisions, and hopefully they'll decide. See world
(48:30):
is too expensive to watch something be miserable in a tank.
Speaker 1 (48:34):
Yeah, especially because there's other alternatives to seeing it. And
I'm sorry, go watch a documentary and show your child
through a documentary. It's far more interesting and far more
revealing than watching something be trained to do flips and
tricks because you're starving them with food and they're now
(48:56):
completely reliant upon a human being, because that's not natural,
that's not how they conduct themselves in the wild. So
at least have a true wild, authentic experience versus what
you're getting at a place like SeaWorld. I think. I
think the best idea I've heard in a long time
is as starting a foundation.
Speaker 2 (49:17):
Yeah that too. Well, we have a few ideas.
Speaker 1 (49:20):
I mean we also have a deep love of well
of all animals, but horses. We bonded over horses for
a very long time. We still do. We both do
rescue work with horses. I just rescue you two when
got cancer in one eye has to be taken out.
Speaker 2 (49:38):
Yeah, that's unfortunate. But they do adapt. They do adapt,
especially if they have a buddy.
Speaker 1 (49:43):
She found a buddy at the kill pen, or her
buddy found her.
Speaker 2 (49:47):
Yeah, so that helps keep them calm and secure.
Speaker 1 (49:51):
And dogs, we had lots of conversations about dogs and
how to help and especially with how with high kill shelters. Yeah,
I mean we do have a lot of We have
a lot of We have a lot of fires in
the oven right now. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (50:06):
We have a lot of common interest and we kind
of always have and I think the ones we have cooking,
you know, are kind of a culmination of all those things.
I would agree, thank you, sure anytime? Great, No, not anytime.
(50:27):
Let's see in like two hours, Yeah, great, awesome, All
right
Speaker 1 (50:30):
Well that's let's be Clear with Shannon Doherty with special
guests Holly Murray Colms love her, Love you guys, Thanks
for listening.
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