January 22, 2024 • 31 mins
Brace yourselves for a Brenda and Brandon Walsh reunion!The TV twins catch up and open up like NEVER BEFORE. From their undeniable chemistry on the set, to the events that led to Shannen's firing, what they wish they had done differently, and a bombshell revelation 30 years later.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
This is Let's Be Clear with Shannon Doherty. Hey, everyone,
welcome back to a new episode of Let's Be Clear
with Shannon Doherty. Boy, this is going to be a
very fun episode because I have my twin, Jason Priestley
with me.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Hey, j.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
It's so funny. You're my twins.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
So great.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Yeah, I mean, is the show that just it doesn't die.
It's like our you know, our legacy pretty much.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
It is, it really is. It's it's remarkable how and
I heard about this earlier this week that so many
millennials and people like that discovered our show, and binge
watched our show during the COVID lockdown because what else
is there to do?
Speaker 1 (00:56):
Right, Well, you it was either watching nine or to
an hour or learn how to make sour dough bread.
I did the latter, right, I did not get any
from you, So I'm a little disappointed, you know what.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
I'm sorry that, but I think we didn't want to
drive all the way out to the to the motherland
where you live. I know we were living, you know,
we were living right in town. You were a long
you're a long way out of town, am I.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
Yeah, it's pretty poor, I mean from you from where
you are now. It's I think I'm only like thirty
five minutes from you. Yeah, yeah, but if you try
to drive to where I currently am, it's really long drive.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
That would be that would be a hell of a community.
All right.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
So the last time we saw each other was at
a convention, which was awesome. And you don't really do
a lot of them, but when we do, I think
what's really cool is the fans reaction to, like you
and I back together again. Yeah, absolutely, Yeah, they love
that Brandon and Brenda connection.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Yeah, they really do. And it's you know, it's fun.
You're right, I don't. I don't do a lot of
those cons but when I do do them, I'm always
amazed by the response that the show still gets and
just how rabid our fan base still is. It's it's remarkable.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
Yeah, And like you said, like millennials started binge watching
it during COVID. It's it's the age range of people
that watch nine O two and oh and love nine
O two and oh is pretty remarkable. But it's also
a show that really helped kick off the teenage shows. Yeah,
(02:42):
because before nine on two and oh, there there wasn't
a lot of them out there, and then nine O
two and oh came around, and it spawned things like
the OC and all of those other teenage shows that
came after.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
Dawson's Creek and all of them, right, One Tree Hill,
all of them. Right. Definitely, absolutely, it was you know
that the success that our show was able to experience
definitely changed the trajectory of television moving forward, because, you know,
(03:16):
people realized that they could target a YA audience or
seventeen to twenty four year old audience, even younger twelve
to seventeen and seventeen to twenty four. They could go
after those demographics, and if they secured a big enough
portion of those demographics, they'd be able to make money, which,
(03:39):
at the end of the day is really what it's
all about, right.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
Right, Do you remember your audition process?
Speaker 2 (03:45):
Yes, My audition process was very short. It was very short.
The first time I auditioned for the show was that
first reading that you and I did together in Aaron's
office over them a lot, and then the next time
my second audition was at Fox.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
Didn't we audition together at Fox? Also?
Speaker 2 (04:08):
You know, I don't remember were you there?
Speaker 1 (04:14):
Yeah, I remember being in that long haul, right, and
they had sort of whittled people down, and at some
point they let some people go, let some people stay, right,
you know, out of like the three Brendaz or whatever
was left, and I don't know how many Brandons, probably
three Brandons, and then it was just you and me,
(04:40):
and I remember we sort of you were already in
the room and they asked me to come in. They
hadn't originally asked me to stay, or I didn't think
that they did. So I just started leaving, and Tony
Shepherd sort of ran after me and was like, where
are you going? And so I came back and in
the room with you, and I think the network wanted
(05:04):
to see us together. Was it believable that we were twins?
Was it believable? How was our sort of chemistry together?
And but I do I remember us being at network together.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
Wow, Okay, you know what, I believe you. I think
I was so nervous that day that you know, it
just got didn't stick in my memory.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
Banks Yeah, I mean that was for me. I think
it was. I'd mentioned this before on another episode that
they had brought in a girl from New York. And
whenever they bring somebody in from New York, you sort
of assume that that person has the role because they've
had to fly them out, they've had to put them up,
(05:47):
so that means that that's the favorite. And once I
found out that somebody from New York was there, I
think my nerves went away because in my head, I
just said, I don't I'm not getting this part right.
There's way because they have a New Yorker here, and
you know that's it's it's a done deal.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:07):
So then I but once I went into the room
with you, I I sort of had that moment where
I went, oh, oh, I think I think we got this. Yes,
I think I think we're I think this is I
think this is Brandon, and I think I'm a Brenda.
And then we started working and you know, the one
(06:29):
thing obviously, you know, the podcast is called Let's be clear,
So I'm I try to be as transparent and authentic
with my personal experience and then everybody else's personal experience
that I speak to. So once we started working, I
think that first season was great. Everybody got along and
(06:51):
we were plow horses for the most part. We were
just you know, going to work every single day and
figuring it out and and we were still yelling. Some
of us turned eighteen during the pilot, you know, we
had very early birthdays really, And then I remember for me,
(07:15):
and I don't know the defining moment for you where
you realize that this show was a success, But for me,
it was the cover of Rolling Stone magazine.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
Yeah, that was that was a big moment. That was
fun that day. All right.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
Were there any other like defining moments for you of
where you said.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
I, you know, I sort of struggle with this because
for me, it was that it was those initial summer
episodes that we did at the beginning of the second
season and the fact that, you know, a show because
our show had been late in the fifties and the sixties,
and the Nielsen ratings every week, and all of a
sudden we were number fourteen, and I was, I was,
(08:01):
I was. I was excited by that because I thought
it meant that, you know, we were just getting more
eyeballs on the show and that, you know, and it
would grow from there, and it.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
Did.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
It was. It was remarkable how we stuck around because
you remember, I'm sure I'm sure you remember in the
first season. First of all, our days were super long
in that first season when we were in fifteen sixteen
hours every day because we hadn't figured out the rhythm
of the show yet, and I just remember being exhausted
(08:33):
all the time, and I was. And then so the
show premiered in October, and the show, it was like
just kind of hanging around and hanging around and hanging around.
And then and then we got our back nine pickup
and now was super exciting. And then but we were
still working, you know, fifteen hours a day. It was
it was really it was hard. And I remember us
(08:55):
all being we were all tired, but we would always
on time to go to Merrick's Text Mix cafe and
all us and helps get through the drink. We had
to oh my god.
Speaker 1 (09:11):
Yeah, I think that when you work five days a
week and you're working sixteen hour days, it's really hard
(09:32):
to just go home and turn your brain off and
get the eight hour sleep that you desperately, desperately need
and to go and have a taco and a margarita.
It sort of is an unwinding process for you know,
myself and for Tori. Eventually that that took a whole
other surn where our relaxation was the Roxbury and yes,
(09:58):
bar one and you know, we and maybe grab two
hours of sleep and roll into work with our makeup
on from the night before and fantastic, probably wreaking of
some alcohol. And yeah, yeah, I definitely went through a
lot of growing pains on that show. There was beautiful
(10:21):
moments for me, and there were really hard moments for me.
Towards my last season, I was in a really horrible
marriage and there were things transpiring in that marriage that
made it very hard for me to consistently be on
(10:42):
time for work. And I know that that became a
very big problem for the rest of you, because as
it should be, because if everybody else is on time
and you're waiting for one person, it sucks, right because
it means that you're now going to work longer hours.
You're going to be there for seventeen hours as a
to only fifteen hours hopefully or fourteen hours. So it's
(11:05):
a really it's a it's a hard position to be in, certainly,
And I've had this conversation with Brian about I it
wasn't anybody's responsibility but mine, but I certainly wish that
I had been sort of set down and set and
(11:26):
sort of looked at and said, Listen, the end result
is going to be this. You know, the end result
is you're going to get fired because none of us
are willing to put up with it anymore. And I
understand that you have a issue in your personal life,
but that also can't bleed into work. You also have
to get your shit together essentially. And what I sort
(11:49):
of what Brian and I were talking about the other
day was did I was I transparent about sort of
everything that I was facing at the time. And the
truth is I probably wasn't. I don't think anybody knew
that my dad was super sick, and I don't think
anybody knew that, you know, my husband was a massive
(12:11):
drug addict who would get incredibly violent at times, and
that it was all consuming for me, just very I
didn't even want to leave the house because I was
scared that he would go and get drugs. So it
(12:32):
was almost like waiting around for, you know, my dad
to show up. And my dad would bring this great
dane who was crazy, and he would leave the great
Dane outside the house in the gated area so that
the guy at the time couldn't escape the house to
go get drugs. You know, it was the most bizarre
(12:53):
thing I think that I'd ever been through.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
And then.
Speaker 1 (12:56):
You know, prior to that, yeah, Tory and I would
sometimes be late because we were going out. This was
pre marriage. But I'm sure that that was tough for
you and tough to deal with, and then not knowing
because I wasn't sharing what I was going through. That
(13:17):
that conversation with Paul Wagner and Aaron Spelling of you know,
the fate of Brenda in nine o two or zero,
that must have been a tough conversation for you to
have because you were sort of deemed the quarterback by Aaron,
so you sort of did have to do some quarterbacking
(13:40):
in that area with a cast who a good majority
of them felt very passionately about not waiting around.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
For me, and it was it was incredibly difficult, and
I'm I wish that I would have known more about
what was happening in your personal life at the time,
because I could have I could have hopefully managed it
with with more with more compassion and more caring. But
(14:10):
I but we we only knew what we knew, and
we just we were trying to to keep the show.
Of course, it was you know, the heart the hardest
thing for me was, you know, the show is about
Brandon and Brenda, it's not It's not about that's what.
It's about the Walls family. And all of a sudden,
(14:32):
we were going to lose one of the members of
the Walls family, and how is that going to impact
the show? And how how would we try to how
would we find a path to move forward with the show.
So it was it was incredibly hard for me because
there were just so many unknowns and I but I
do I wish, I wish, I wish we would have
(14:54):
and I wish all of us had more knowledge about
what was happening in your life so we could have
we could have dealt with this situation in a more
compassionate way.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
Yeah, I mean, listen, I'm not I really take the
blame for that. Like I don't blame anyone else for
what transpired and my ultimate firing, I do blame myself
because I should have had my personal life more together.
I should have left a relationship earlier. I shouldn't have
been going out. I shouldn't have been you know, I
(15:24):
got definitely affected by the attention and that all of
a sudden I could go into a nightclub, and it
didn't matter how old I was. I found it all
very seductive and alluring, and I fell into that trap.
And then you add the personal issues, and I should
have I should have been transparent. First off, I should
(15:48):
have gotten my shit together. But second I should have
been transparent, And particularly I think with you, I should
have because we'd always had a fairly close relationship, and
I don't Maybe it was maybe I was embarrassed. Maybe
I was just so ultra private back then, which is
(16:11):
really funny to say, because I was going out and
being photographed all the time, but yet you know, I'm
a private person. It's like, okay, great, so they're photographing me,
but they don't really know anything in my life. They
think they do, but they don't. But I should have
shared with you. And I think that that whatever the
outcome would have been with nine o two and zero,
(16:32):
it still probably would have helped me a lot in
a in a very personal way to sort of lean
on other people for the help that I desperately needed
at that point in time. Yeah, so yeah, I take responsibility,
not not. You know, I don't blame anyone. That's that's
(16:53):
my issue. And you know, I think Brenda and Brandon
were always so interesting because we had an interesting relationship.
Speaker 2 (17:04):
Yeah, definitely, definitely, And the Jack and Jill bathroom, all of.
Speaker 1 (17:09):
It, like it's there was this sexual undertone of Brenda
and Brandon that to this day is hysterical. I mean
at the convention, I think I showed you a photo
of the two of us that a fan brought to me,
and I was like, this is inappropriate for brother and sister,
(17:30):
and then you'll get the cover rolling Stone and Shore
we're ourselves on that. But I'm like straddling you.
Speaker 2 (17:37):
Yeah, it's pretty funny.
Speaker 1 (17:39):
Yeah, just so bizarre.
Speaker 2 (17:44):
It was. There were a lot of bizarre things that
happened with us though, Right, So I sort of understand
why you were trying to keep your private life private
and not and not. And I feel like you're you
were anything in public because because also remember there was
it was the days of all the tabloids, right, and
(18:06):
they would just come up with the most salacious thing
they could for every weekend. You were always in it
and they were always creating all these, you know, horrible stories,
but there was always like just a little kernel of
truth in it, right, So I'm sure you were super
paranoid about talking to anybody and saying anything untoward about anyone.
Speaker 1 (18:32):
Yeah, I definitely still feel strongly that it could have
been my assistant I had at the time, It could
have been friends, it could have been somebody on the set.
But it definitely feels someone was feeding that kernel of truth.
It's just that then those tabloids took it to a
(18:54):
whole other level. Oh yeah, that was so incredibly hurtful.
It was hurtful to my father, to my mother, and
to me that I definitely closed up even more and
became like, Okay, I can't, I can't. And I also
didn't want to be a victim. I didn't want to
(19:15):
be the girl who came to you or to anybody
and said, you know, here's what my husband is doing,
and I you know, it's a it's a it's a
it's a it's a brutal thing. I think there was
only a few people who knew.
Speaker 2 (19:29):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
I think my makeup artist knew, but that's because she
had to cover a couple of bruises, right, So she
she definitely knew what was going on, but she was
my makeup artist, so she was loyal to me. Yeah. Yeah,
it was a pretty crazy time. Yes, how's that for
dropping a bombshell on you? How many years later.
Speaker 2 (19:54):
That that was pretty goods later? Here we are what
I know?
Speaker 1 (20:00):
I know, I know, but you know, you reach a
certain age in your life and you just go, well,
everything in the world has been written about me, and
ninety percent has been false. So how about I just
tell my truth now? And I think that that's where I'm.
Speaker 2 (20:16):
At, take control of the narrative and fix it, right.
Speaker 1 (20:20):
Yeah, I mean one hopes or just you know, have
online therapy sessions with people like you, which is what
I'm doing today. I must have woken up and being like, okay,
therapy session with Jay. It's definitely it's definitely a different experience.
I love when people are like, can we watch this?
(20:42):
I'm sorry you can't, it's a podcast. Have to listen.
But eventually, hopefully we will release video of it all.
But so then we did. First off, when what season
did you start directing?
Speaker 2 (20:55):
Season three?
Speaker 1 (20:56):
Season three?
Speaker 2 (20:58):
The third season? Yeah, yeah, the first episode I did
in the third season was the one where you guys,
you guys, the girls all went to the to Magic
Mountain and we did all that stuff in Magic Mountain.
And uh and uh and Steve and Dylan and Brandon.
(21:19):
We're trying to help this con artist girl. Who who
would promised this group of tourists that they would get
to spend spend the day with I don't know, uh,
Burt Reynolds or something, and and uh and so we
we actually found a way to get to Burt Reynolds,
and we got Burt Reynolds to the peach pit and
all the girl and all the all the tourists got
(21:39):
to meet him, and we thought we were saving this
girl's career. And then it turned out she was just
a con artist.
Speaker 1 (21:45):
So sad.
Speaker 2 (21:48):
It was. It was a pretty funny episode, and it
turned it turned out pretty good.
Speaker 1 (22:05):
I remember you being a good director. You were nice,
You were you still are. You were very efficient, which
I deeply, deeply, deeply appreciate as someone who likes to
go to work, hit my marks in my lines and
get the hell out right. Like I care about my job,
(22:25):
but I don't want my job to consume my life.
And that's definitely how I've been in the last you know,
twenty some odd years of my career. So I did
appreciate it because and you also directed some of the
reboot that we did.
Speaker 2 (22:44):
Yes, I directed one of those episodes, the one where
the one where Torri went to Panama or.
Speaker 1 (22:53):
Wherever you see me and I came out of like
the shaman that's right.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I was directing that day. That was fun.
Speaker 1 (23:02):
I was nervous.
Speaker 2 (23:05):
I beg you were. You hadn't you hadn't seen any
of us for a while, and you know, and to
go back and sort of revisit that character sort of,
I beg you were, of course you were.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
I was like shaking. I remember that. I kept looking
down at my hands and they were they were shaking,
and I was like, Shannon, like, get it together, this
is ridiculous. And then you were doing a close up
on me and my eye was twitching because I.
Speaker 2 (23:34):
Was so innous.
Speaker 1 (23:37):
I was like, oh my god, this is not okay,
Like why are you so nervous? But yeah, just obviously
I'd kept up with Brian, but the rest of you
I hadn't really connected with. And so then going there,
and I mean, first off, committing to doing it was
(23:59):
such a huge decision for me because Luke and I
were in the middle of developing a show together and
we had had you know, countless meetings sort of going
over what kind of show and we had had. We
were setting up like producer meetings with particular people that
(24:21):
we both wanted to work with. And so when Luke
very suddenly passed and the reboot was still there, it
was like, oh my god, if I don't do this,
am I not honoring him? And I felt like I
(24:42):
had to go. I had to do it in order
to honor him, and I ended up having it.
Speaker 2 (24:48):
Was.
Speaker 1 (24:49):
There were challenging moments of shooting the reboot, but I
had a great time for the most part.
Speaker 2 (24:58):
Yeah, a pretty good time on that show too. I mean,
of course, you know, like halfway through the season, I
went back to Toronto and started started working on my on
my uh on my Canadian show, and then I would
just come back on the weekends and shoot on the
weekends and go back. It was. It was crazy, So
I don't I didn't know. I didn't know, like later
(25:20):
on in those episodes, episode five, six, stuff like that,
Like I was, I was hardly around, So I really
don't know what was what was happening on the ground.
Where did it did it did did the show start
to run more smoothly or less smoothly as it went
a long.
Speaker 1 (25:36):
I think the same. I think I think it. I
think it didn't. I think it just stayed exactly where
it was, you know. I mean it was for me,
it was ironic and very funny that I was the
girl who got fired for being late and not being
(25:57):
responsible on the set right of the origin and then
the reboot. I'm constantly early to set and very responsible.
I'm very like, I'm doing my job and going to
bed and blah blah blah. I would go to dinner
with like Brian and I and sometimes but that I
was not the one showing up late to set. It
(26:21):
was not me, and I kind of loved it. I
thought it was hysterical. I was not the one, you know,
pausing in the middle of filming because I thought that
my dog really needed a bath, and like kept a
whole crew waiting. It was really really interesting stuff that
was happening. And yeah, I mean I did have a moment.
Speaker 3 (26:43):
With with with with some of those where I said, listen,
I know that this might seem funny coming from me,
uh and the you know how things come full circle,
but I'm don't keep us all waiting.
Speaker 1 (26:57):
It's not cool. And I just remember that like sort
of talk that turned into a little bit of an argument,
and I walked away and I went to my trailer
and I started laughing, yeah, because I was like, this
is just you can't write this. You can't write this
(27:18):
in life. It's just it was. But I still, you know,
I loved my wardrobe. I loved my character. I loved
that they let me. They really let me improv almost
everything that they didn't force me to, you know, stick
with the dialogue that they wrote that. I was like, yeah, no,
(27:40):
let me. I'm gonna I'm going to eat in every
single scene. And you looked at me and went are
you always going to wear a hat? Do you remember asking?
You're like, is it like a character thing? Are you
always gonna wear a hat? And I was like, I
don't know yet. Maybe Jay, Well, you know, can you
(28:00):
just push it back so the like you can get
on your face. I'm like, oh, he's trying to make
me look pretty cool. Okay, I'll do that. It was great.
How was a I mean I know that you were,
you know, going back and forth and you weren't there
towards the end, but how did you how did you
like that? That whole experience. What did you think of it?
(28:21):
Because it you know, we only did the six episodes
and then it got canceled. Yeah, do you think, yeah,
maybe the concept was was the wrong concept for reboot.
Maybe we should have been actually playing our characters thirty
years later.
Speaker 2 (28:37):
You know, I don't, I don't, no, I mean that,
you know, the concept that we went with for that
reboot was like it was, it was so off the
wall and sort of avant garde that I think it
was difficult for people to wrap their heads around what
was really happening. And I think that a lot of
(29:01):
people tuned into the show thinking it was going to
be you know, we were all just you know, Brandon
has taken over the beach bed, and you know, like
it was going to be that. And I think when
they didn't get that, because I think they kind of
secretly they kind of wanted that, Yeah, And I think
that when they didn't get it, I think they they
(29:22):
they were disappointed, which is you never want to have
an audience be disappointed in the content that you're creating.
So I think, ultimately, I mean, I think it was
I think it was an interesting experience, and I think
that we you know, maybe helped to push the push
the envelope a little bit, but it was it what
(29:43):
the audience wanted obviously.
Speaker 1 (29:45):
Not Yeah, I mean I sort of always thought that
it should have been if we were going to do it,
it should have been sort of like that show thirty something,
but for us, it would have been at that time
forty something, where we pick up these characters in their
forties and what they've gone through and what they've struggled
(30:06):
with and are still struggling with, and do they know
each other anymore? You know, did when Brenda went to London?
Did she ever come back? And did she you know,
what is her relationship like with her twin? And you
know what happened ultimately with her and Dylan, And you know,
(30:27):
for everybody to sort of have those moments and to
really and I think I do agree with you that
I think that that's kind of what the audience wanted,
and when they didn't get it, they were clearly, clearly,
clearly disappointed because our numbers were not great and we
got canceled very quickly, yea, very quickly, six episodes and done.
(30:50):
I don't think that's ever happened to me before I
was like wait, what.
Speaker 2 (30:55):
That's never happened to me before. That was one for
the record books, h
This is Let's Be Clear with Shannon Doherty. Hey, everyone,
welcome back to a new episode of Let's Be Clear
with Shannon Doherty. Boy, this is going to be a
very fun episode because I have my twin, Jason Priestley
with me.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Hey, j.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
It's so funny. You're my twins.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
So great.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Yeah, I mean, is the show that just it doesn't die.
It's like our you know, our legacy pretty much.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
It is, it really is. It's it's remarkable how and
I heard about this earlier this week that so many
millennials and people like that discovered our show, and binge
watched our show during the COVID lockdown because what else
is there to do?
Speaker 1 (00:56):
Right, Well, you it was either watching nine or to
an hour or learn how to make sour dough bread.
I did the latter, right, I did not get any
from you, So I'm a little disappointed, you know what.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
I'm sorry that, but I think we didn't want to
drive all the way out to the to the motherland
where you live. I know we were living, you know,
we were living right in town. You were a long
you're a long way out of town, am I.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
Yeah, it's pretty poor, I mean from you from where
you are now. It's I think I'm only like thirty
five minutes from you. Yeah, yeah, but if you try
to drive to where I currently am, it's really long drive.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
That would be that would be a hell of a community.
All right.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
So the last time we saw each other was at
a convention, which was awesome. And you don't really do
a lot of them, but when we do, I think
what's really cool is the fans reaction to, like you
and I back together again. Yeah, absolutely, Yeah, they love
that Brandon and Brenda connection.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Yeah, they really do. And it's you know, it's fun.
You're right, I don't. I don't do a lot of
those cons but when I do do them, I'm always
amazed by the response that the show still gets and
just how rabid our fan base still is. It's it's remarkable.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
Yeah, And like you said, like millennials started binge watching
it during COVID. It's it's the age range of people
that watch nine O two and oh and love nine
O two and oh is pretty remarkable. But it's also
a show that really helped kick off the teenage shows. Yeah,
(02:42):
because before nine on two and oh, there there wasn't
a lot of them out there, and then nine O
two and oh came around, and it spawned things like
the OC and all of those other teenage shows that
came after.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
Dawson's Creek and all of them, right, One Tree Hill,
all of them. Right. Definitely, absolutely, it was you know
that the success that our show was able to experience
definitely changed the trajectory of television moving forward, because, you know,
(03:16):
people realized that they could target a YA audience or
seventeen to twenty four year old audience, even younger twelve
to seventeen and seventeen to twenty four. They could go
after those demographics, and if they secured a big enough
portion of those demographics, they'd be able to make money, which,
(03:39):
at the end of the day is really what it's
all about, right.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
Right, Do you remember your audition process?
Speaker 2 (03:45):
Yes, My audition process was very short. It was very short.
The first time I auditioned for the show was that
first reading that you and I did together in Aaron's
office over them a lot, and then the next time
my second audition was at Fox.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
Didn't we audition together at Fox? Also?
Speaker 2 (04:08):
You know, I don't remember were you there?
Speaker 1 (04:14):
Yeah, I remember being in that long haul, right, and
they had sort of whittled people down, and at some
point they let some people go, let some people stay, right,
you know, out of like the three Brendaz or whatever
was left, and I don't know how many Brandons, probably
three Brandons, and then it was just you and me,
(04:40):
and I remember we sort of you were already in
the room and they asked me to come in. They
hadn't originally asked me to stay, or I didn't think
that they did. So I just started leaving, and Tony
Shepherd sort of ran after me and was like, where
are you going? And so I came back and in
the room with you, and I think the network wanted
(05:04):
to see us together. Was it believable that we were twins?
Was it believable? How was our sort of chemistry together?
And but I do I remember us being at network together.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
Wow, Okay, you know what, I believe you. I think
I was so nervous that day that you know, it
just got didn't stick in my memory.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
Banks Yeah, I mean that was for me. I think
it was. I'd mentioned this before on another episode that
they had brought in a girl from New York. And
whenever they bring somebody in from New York, you sort
of assume that that person has the role because they've
had to fly them out, they've had to put them up,
(05:47):
so that means that that's the favorite. And once I
found out that somebody from New York was there, I
think my nerves went away because in my head, I
just said, I don't I'm not getting this part right.
There's way because they have a New Yorker here, and
you know that's it's it's a done deal.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:07):
So then I but once I went into the room
with you, I I sort of had that moment where
I went, oh, oh, I think I think we got this. Yes,
I think I think we're I think this is I
think this is Brandon, and I think I'm a Brenda.
And then we started working and you know, the one
(06:29):
thing obviously, you know, the podcast is called Let's be clear,
So I'm I try to be as transparent and authentic
with my personal experience and then everybody else's personal experience
that I speak to. So once we started working, I
think that first season was great. Everybody got along and
(06:51):
we were plow horses for the most part. We were
just you know, going to work every single day and
figuring it out and and we were still yelling. Some
of us turned eighteen during the pilot, you know, we
had very early birthdays really, And then I remember for me,
(07:15):
and I don't know the defining moment for you where
you realize that this show was a success, But for me,
it was the cover of Rolling Stone magazine.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
Yeah, that was that was a big moment. That was
fun that day. All right.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
Were there any other like defining moments for you of
where you said.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
I, you know, I sort of struggle with this because
for me, it was that it was those initial summer
episodes that we did at the beginning of the second
season and the fact that, you know, a show because
our show had been late in the fifties and the sixties,
and the Nielsen ratings every week, and all of a
sudden we were number fourteen, and I was, I was,
(08:01):
I was. I was excited by that because I thought
it meant that, you know, we were just getting more
eyeballs on the show and that, you know, and it
would grow from there, and it.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
Did.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
It was. It was remarkable how we stuck around because
you remember, I'm sure I'm sure you remember in the
first season. First of all, our days were super long
in that first season when we were in fifteen sixteen
hours every day because we hadn't figured out the rhythm
of the show yet, and I just remember being exhausted
(08:33):
all the time, and I was. And then so the
show premiered in October, and the show, it was like
just kind of hanging around and hanging around and hanging around.
And then and then we got our back nine pickup
and now was super exciting. And then but we were
still working, you know, fifteen hours a day. It was
it was really it was hard. And I remember us
(08:55):
all being we were all tired, but we would always
on time to go to Merrick's Text Mix cafe and
all us and helps get through the drink. We had
to oh my god.
Speaker 1 (09:11):
Yeah, I think that when you work five days a
week and you're working sixteen hour days, it's really hard
(09:32):
to just go home and turn your brain off and
get the eight hour sleep that you desperately, desperately need
and to go and have a taco and a margarita.
It sort of is an unwinding process for you know,
myself and for Tori. Eventually that that took a whole
other surn where our relaxation was the Roxbury and yes,
(09:58):
bar one and you know, we and maybe grab two
hours of sleep and roll into work with our makeup
on from the night before and fantastic, probably wreaking of
some alcohol. And yeah, yeah, I definitely went through a
lot of growing pains on that show. There was beautiful
(10:21):
moments for me, and there were really hard moments for me.
Towards my last season, I was in a really horrible
marriage and there were things transpiring in that marriage that
made it very hard for me to consistently be on
(10:42):
time for work. And I know that that became a
very big problem for the rest of you, because as
it should be, because if everybody else is on time
and you're waiting for one person, it sucks, right because
it means that you're now going to work longer hours.
You're going to be there for seventeen hours as a
to only fifteen hours hopefully or fourteen hours. So it's
(11:05):
a really it's a it's a hard position to be in, certainly,
And I've had this conversation with Brian about I it
wasn't anybody's responsibility but mine, but I certainly wish that
I had been sort of set down and set and
(11:26):
sort of looked at and said, Listen, the end result
is going to be this. You know, the end result
is you're going to get fired because none of us
are willing to put up with it anymore. And I
understand that you have a issue in your personal life,
but that also can't bleed into work. You also have
to get your shit together essentially. And what I sort
(11:49):
of what Brian and I were talking about the other
day was did I was I transparent about sort of
everything that I was facing at the time. And the
truth is I probably wasn't. I don't think anybody knew
that my dad was super sick, and I don't think
anybody knew that, you know, my husband was a massive
(12:11):
drug addict who would get incredibly violent at times, and
that it was all consuming for me, just very I
didn't even want to leave the house because I was
scared that he would go and get drugs. So it
(12:32):
was almost like waiting around for, you know, my dad
to show up. And my dad would bring this great
dane who was crazy, and he would leave the great
Dane outside the house in the gated area so that
the guy at the time couldn't escape the house to
go get drugs. You know, it was the most bizarre
(12:53):
thing I think that I'd ever been through.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
And then.
Speaker 1 (12:56):
You know, prior to that, yeah, Tory and I would
sometimes be late because we were going out. This was
pre marriage. But I'm sure that that was tough for
you and tough to deal with, and then not knowing
because I wasn't sharing what I was going through. That
(13:17):
that conversation with Paul Wagner and Aaron Spelling of you know,
the fate of Brenda in nine o two or zero,
that must have been a tough conversation for you to
have because you were sort of deemed the quarterback by Aaron,
so you sort of did have to do some quarterbacking
(13:40):
in that area with a cast who a good majority
of them felt very passionately about not waiting around.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
For me, and it was it was incredibly difficult, and
I'm I wish that I would have known more about
what was happening in your personal life at the time,
because I could have I could have hopefully managed it
with with more with more compassion and more caring. But
(14:10):
I but we we only knew what we knew, and
we just we were trying to to keep the show.
Of course, it was you know, the heart the hardest
thing for me was, you know, the show is about
Brandon and Brenda, it's not It's not about that's what.
It's about the Walls family. And all of a sudden,
(14:32):
we were going to lose one of the members of
the Walls family, and how is that going to impact
the show? And how how would we try to how
would we find a path to move forward with the show.
So it was it was incredibly hard for me because
there were just so many unknowns and I but I
do I wish, I wish, I wish we would have
(14:54):
and I wish all of us had more knowledge about
what was happening in your life so we could have
we could have dealt with this situation in a more
compassionate way.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
Yeah, I mean, listen, I'm not I really take the
blame for that. Like I don't blame anyone else for
what transpired and my ultimate firing, I do blame myself
because I should have had my personal life more together.
I should have left a relationship earlier. I shouldn't have
been going out. I shouldn't have been you know, I
(15:24):
got definitely affected by the attention and that all of
a sudden I could go into a nightclub, and it
didn't matter how old I was. I found it all
very seductive and alluring, and I fell into that trap.
And then you add the personal issues, and I should
have I should have been transparent. First off, I should
(15:48):
have gotten my shit together. But second I should have
been transparent, And particularly I think with you, I should
have because we'd always had a fairly close relationship, and
I don't Maybe it was maybe I was embarrassed. Maybe
I was just so ultra private back then, which is
(16:11):
really funny to say, because I was going out and
being photographed all the time, but yet you know, I'm
a private person. It's like, okay, great, so they're photographing me,
but they don't really know anything in my life. They
think they do, but they don't. But I should have
shared with you. And I think that that whatever the
outcome would have been with nine o two and zero,
(16:32):
it still probably would have helped me a lot in
a in a very personal way to sort of lean
on other people for the help that I desperately needed
at that point in time. Yeah, so yeah, I take responsibility,
not not. You know, I don't blame anyone. That's that's
(16:53):
my issue. And you know, I think Brenda and Brandon
were always so interesting because we had an interesting relationship.
Speaker 2 (17:04):
Yeah, definitely, definitely, And the Jack and Jill bathroom, all of.
Speaker 1 (17:09):
It, like it's there was this sexual undertone of Brenda
and Brandon that to this day is hysterical. I mean
at the convention, I think I showed you a photo
of the two of us that a fan brought to me,
and I was like, this is inappropriate for brother and sister,
(17:30):
and then you'll get the cover rolling Stone and Shore
we're ourselves on that. But I'm like straddling you.
Speaker 2 (17:37):
Yeah, it's pretty funny.
Speaker 1 (17:39):
Yeah, just so bizarre.
Speaker 2 (17:44):
It was. There were a lot of bizarre things that
happened with us though, Right, So I sort of understand
why you were trying to keep your private life private
and not and not. And I feel like you're you
were anything in public because because also remember there was
it was the days of all the tabloids, right, and
(18:06):
they would just come up with the most salacious thing
they could for every weekend. You were always in it
and they were always creating all these, you know, horrible stories,
but there was always like just a little kernel of
truth in it, right, So I'm sure you were super
paranoid about talking to anybody and saying anything untoward about anyone.
Speaker 1 (18:32):
Yeah, I definitely still feel strongly that it could have
been my assistant I had at the time, It could
have been friends, it could have been somebody on the set.
But it definitely feels someone was feeding that kernel of truth.
It's just that then those tabloids took it to a
(18:54):
whole other level. Oh yeah, that was so incredibly hurtful.
It was hurtful to my father, to my mother, and
to me that I definitely closed up even more and
became like, Okay, I can't, I can't. And I also
didn't want to be a victim. I didn't want to
(19:15):
be the girl who came to you or to anybody
and said, you know, here's what my husband is doing,
and I you know, it's a it's a it's a
it's a it's a brutal thing. I think there was
only a few people who knew.
Speaker 2 (19:29):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
I think my makeup artist knew, but that's because she
had to cover a couple of bruises, right, So she
she definitely knew what was going on, but she was
my makeup artist, so she was loyal to me. Yeah. Yeah,
it was a pretty crazy time. Yes, how's that for
dropping a bombshell on you? How many years later.
Speaker 2 (19:54):
That that was pretty goods later? Here we are what
I know?
Speaker 1 (20:00):
I know, I know, but you know, you reach a
certain age in your life and you just go, well,
everything in the world has been written about me, and
ninety percent has been false. So how about I just
tell my truth now? And I think that that's where I'm.
Speaker 2 (20:16):
At, take control of the narrative and fix it, right.
Speaker 1 (20:20):
Yeah, I mean one hopes or just you know, have
online therapy sessions with people like you, which is what
I'm doing today. I must have woken up and being like, okay,
therapy session with Jay. It's definitely it's definitely a different experience.
I love when people are like, can we watch this?
(20:42):
I'm sorry you can't, it's a podcast. Have to listen.
But eventually, hopefully we will release video of it all.
But so then we did. First off, when what season
did you start directing?
Speaker 2 (20:55):
Season three?
Speaker 1 (20:56):
Season three?
Speaker 2 (20:58):
The third season? Yeah, yeah, the first episode I did
in the third season was the one where you guys,
you guys, the girls all went to the to Magic
Mountain and we did all that stuff in Magic Mountain.
And uh and uh and Steve and Dylan and Brandon.
(21:19):
We're trying to help this con artist girl. Who who
would promised this group of tourists that they would get
to spend spend the day with I don't know, uh,
Burt Reynolds or something, and and uh and so we
we actually found a way to get to Burt Reynolds,
and we got Burt Reynolds to the peach pit and
all the girl and all the all the tourists got
(21:39):
to meet him, and we thought we were saving this
girl's career. And then it turned out she was just
a con artist.
Speaker 1 (21:45):
So sad.
Speaker 2 (21:48):
It was. It was a pretty funny episode, and it
turned it turned out pretty good.
Speaker 1 (22:05):
I remember you being a good director. You were nice,
You were you still are. You were very efficient, which
I deeply, deeply, deeply appreciate as someone who likes to
go to work, hit my marks in my lines and
get the hell out right. Like I care about my job,
(22:25):
but I don't want my job to consume my life.
And that's definitely how I've been in the last you know,
twenty some odd years of my career. So I did
appreciate it because and you also directed some of the
reboot that we did.
Speaker 2 (22:44):
Yes, I directed one of those episodes, the one where
the one where Torri went to Panama or.
Speaker 1 (22:53):
Wherever you see me and I came out of like
the shaman that's right.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I was directing that day. That was fun.
Speaker 1 (23:02):
I was nervous.
Speaker 2 (23:05):
I beg you were. You hadn't you hadn't seen any
of us for a while, and you know, and to
go back and sort of revisit that character sort of,
I beg you were, of course you were.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
I was like shaking. I remember that. I kept looking
down at my hands and they were they were shaking,
and I was like, Shannon, like, get it together, this
is ridiculous. And then you were doing a close up
on me and my eye was twitching because I.
Speaker 2 (23:34):
Was so innous.
Speaker 1 (23:37):
I was like, oh my god, this is not okay,
Like why are you so nervous? But yeah, just obviously
I'd kept up with Brian, but the rest of you
I hadn't really connected with. And so then going there,
and I mean, first off, committing to doing it was
(23:59):
such a huge decision for me because Luke and I
were in the middle of developing a show together and
we had had you know, countless meetings sort of going
over what kind of show and we had had. We
were setting up like producer meetings with particular people that
(24:21):
we both wanted to work with. And so when Luke
very suddenly passed and the reboot was still there, it
was like, oh my god, if I don't do this,
am I not honoring him? And I felt like I
(24:42):
had to go. I had to do it in order
to honor him, and I ended up having it.
Speaker 2 (24:48):
Was.
Speaker 1 (24:49):
There were challenging moments of shooting the reboot, but I
had a great time for the most part.
Speaker 2 (24:58):
Yeah, a pretty good time on that show too. I mean,
of course, you know, like halfway through the season, I
went back to Toronto and started started working on my on
my uh on my Canadian show, and then I would
just come back on the weekends and shoot on the
weekends and go back. It was. It was crazy, So
I don't I didn't know. I didn't know, like later
(25:20):
on in those episodes, episode five, six, stuff like that,
Like I was, I was hardly around, So I really
don't know what was what was happening on the ground.
Where did it did it did did the show start
to run more smoothly or less smoothly as it went
a long.
Speaker 1 (25:36):
I think the same. I think I think it. I
think it didn't. I think it just stayed exactly where
it was, you know. I mean it was for me,
it was ironic and very funny that I was the
girl who got fired for being late and not being
(25:57):
responsible on the set right of the origin and then
the reboot. I'm constantly early to set and very responsible.
I'm very like, I'm doing my job and going to
bed and blah blah blah. I would go to dinner
with like Brian and I and sometimes but that I
was not the one showing up late to set. It
(26:21):
was not me, and I kind of loved it. I
thought it was hysterical. I was not the one, you know,
pausing in the middle of filming because I thought that
my dog really needed a bath, and like kept a
whole crew waiting. It was really really interesting stuff that
was happening. And yeah, I mean I did have a moment.
Speaker 3 (26:43):
With with with with some of those where I said, listen,
I know that this might seem funny coming from me,
uh and the you know how things come full circle,
but I'm don't keep us all waiting.
Speaker 1 (26:57):
It's not cool. And I just remember that like sort
of talk that turned into a little bit of an argument,
and I walked away and I went to my trailer
and I started laughing, yeah, because I was like, this
is just you can't write this. You can't write this
(27:18):
in life. It's just it was. But I still, you know,
I loved my wardrobe. I loved my character. I loved
that they let me. They really let me improv almost
everything that they didn't force me to, you know, stick
with the dialogue that they wrote that. I was like, yeah, no,
(27:40):
let me. I'm gonna I'm going to eat in every
single scene. And you looked at me and went are
you always going to wear a hat? Do you remember asking?
You're like, is it like a character thing? Are you
always gonna wear a hat? And I was like, I
don't know yet. Maybe Jay, Well, you know, can you
(28:00):
just push it back so the like you can get
on your face. I'm like, oh, he's trying to make
me look pretty cool. Okay, I'll do that. It was great.
How was a I mean I know that you were,
you know, going back and forth and you weren't there
towards the end, but how did you how did you
like that? That whole experience. What did you think of it?
(28:21):
Because it you know, we only did the six episodes
and then it got canceled. Yeah, do you think, yeah,
maybe the concept was was the wrong concept for reboot.
Maybe we should have been actually playing our characters thirty
years later.
Speaker 2 (28:37):
You know, I don't, I don't, no, I mean that,
you know, the concept that we went with for that
reboot was like it was, it was so off the
wall and sort of avant garde that I think it
was difficult for people to wrap their heads around what
was really happening. And I think that a lot of
(29:01):
people tuned into the show thinking it was going to
be you know, we were all just you know, Brandon
has taken over the beach bed, and you know, like
it was going to be that. And I think when
they didn't get that, because I think they kind of
secretly they kind of wanted that, Yeah, And I think
that when they didn't get it, I think they they
(29:22):
they were disappointed, which is you never want to have
an audience be disappointed in the content that you're creating.
So I think, ultimately, I mean, I think it was
I think it was an interesting experience, and I think
that we you know, maybe helped to push the push
the envelope a little bit, but it was it what
(29:43):
the audience wanted obviously.
Speaker 1 (29:45):
Not Yeah, I mean I sort of always thought that
it should have been if we were going to do it,
it should have been sort of like that show thirty something,
but for us, it would have been at that time
forty something, where we pick up these characters in their
forties and what they've gone through and what they've struggled
(30:06):
with and are still struggling with, and do they know
each other anymore? You know, did when Brenda went to London?
Did she ever come back? And did she you know,
what is her relationship like with her twin? And you
know what happened ultimately with her and Dylan, And you know,
(30:27):
for everybody to sort of have those moments and to
really and I think I do agree with you that
I think that that's kind of what the audience wanted,
and when they didn't get it, they were clearly, clearly,
clearly disappointed because our numbers were not great and we
got canceled very quickly, yea, very quickly, six episodes and done.
(30:50):
I don't think that's ever happened to me before I
was like wait, what.
Speaker 2 (30:55):
That's never happened to me before. That was one for
the record books, h
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