January 30, 2025 • 40 mins
In this episode of Levels to This, Sheryl and Terrika dive into a heartfelt conversation with Armani Latimer, a Dallas Cowboys cheerleader who performed bald to raise awareness for alopecia. They talk about the challenges and triumphs of living with alopecia, societal pressures placed on women surrounding beauty and the importance of finding community. Armani opens up about her journey towards self-acceptance and empowerment, revealing how her bold decision to perform without a wig inspired countless others. Plus, Terrika shares about her own experience with Alopecia and the three discuss its outsized impact on the Black community.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Levels to.
Speaker 2 (00:00):
This is an iHeart women's sports production in partnership with
Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. You can find us on
the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 3 (00:14):
Hey everybody, I'm your girl, Tarrika Foster Brasby.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
What's up, y'all? I'm your girl Cheryl.
Speaker 3 (00:19):
Swoops And this is the Levels to this podcast, the
show where we share that it's levels to the shit
that women go through. And we have got such an
incredible show lined up for you today. Today we are
talking to a special guest who quite literally shocked the
world with her performance. But first, Cheryl, Yeah, we've got
(00:42):
to catch up. Man, it's been it's been a while,
it's been a week. What's new with you? I mean,
I know that we certainly have some new things going
on in the world. We have new administration, we have
new basketball leagues that did well their opening weekend. There's
a lot of newness going on right now. What's new
(01:04):
with you?
Speaker 1 (01:06):
Y'all have a new administration. Don't be I ain't got
shit to do with this.
Speaker 4 (01:11):
I'm not gonna do with that, nigga.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
Listen, I'm laughing. As my mom used to say to
keep from crying.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
Yes, tea, I don't know what to feel right now,
Like I'm angry, I'm sad, I'm scared.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
I'm not gonna put optimistic in there.
Speaker 3 (01:31):
Yeah, these executive orders have been interesting, hunting interesting.
Speaker 1 (01:36):
I was.
Speaker 4 (01:36):
But I'm gonna tell you what I found to be
so funny.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
Tell this is not gonna laugh.
Speaker 4 (01:41):
You are gonna laugh. You're gonna laugh at this because
this is.
Speaker 3 (01:44):
The only way, as your mom would say, and my
grandma would also say, you have to sometimes you have
to laugh to keep from crying. So my husband walks
in two days ago and he says what's going on?
Speaker 4 (01:56):
And I said, hey, wife, how were you?
Speaker 3 (01:59):
He was like, hey wife, yes, I said, yes, hey wife,
you didn't know.
Speaker 4 (02:05):
And he's like, what are you know? Like he's looking
at himself.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
Like did I change?
Speaker 3 (02:10):
And I said, oh, you haven't heard, And so he's like, no,
I haven't heard. I said, oh, well, your boy sign
an executive order that said that we have to now
address people by the sex that they were born, that
they were considered at conception. But considering that he ain't
got no scientists in a room, he probably doesn't know
that everyone is a female embryo at conception until several
(02:34):
weeks later when they developed their hormones to either be
male or female. So if girl have to address people
by the sex they were at conception, you, sir, at
conception was a woman, So how wife?
Speaker 1 (02:47):
How are you?
Speaker 5 (02:49):
He looked at me and said.
Speaker 4 (02:52):
About nothing.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
So that's true. That's true. That is so true.
Speaker 4 (02:58):
So I'm just gonna I'm just gonna address every man
I see it. Hey girl, what's up?
Speaker 1 (03:01):
Hey girl, Hey girl.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
I just don't want to waste any energy on this
conversation because we have such a great show, but I
will say big you know WNBA Free Agencies happening, so
that should be really interesting, unrivaled. Opening weekend was really good.
(03:25):
I watched Opening Night, but I hadn't. I haven't gotten
a chance to watch anymore, so I thought Opening Weekend
was really nice.
Speaker 1 (03:35):
It was good. AU is going on.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
Yes, there's a lot of basketball stuff going on in
that that does excite me.
Speaker 4 (03:45):
That's exciting.
Speaker 3 (03:47):
I got excited when I joined this show today and
I noticed that me and Sheryl are very similar as
it relates to our hairstyles.
Speaker 4 (03:54):
Today.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
My name real cute, though relatively she will be cute. Later.
Speaker 3 (04:01):
I think it's relative to about last because I think
you look amazing, but I.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
Think you too too.
Speaker 4 (04:06):
It's a there we.
Speaker 3 (04:07):
Go, and today we're actually gonna talk a lot about hair. Yeah,
because our guest is none other than Miss Armani Latimer.
Speaker 4 (04:16):
And so you all may remember Armani as.
Speaker 3 (04:18):
The Dallas Cowboys cheerleader who performed back in December bald
and it truly resonated with so many different people. As
someone who is an alopecia survivor and currently dealing with alopecia,
it is going to be so incredible to have a
conversation with her.
Speaker 4 (04:36):
So let's go ahead and just take this to the
next level.
Speaker 3 (04:43):
I am really excited about today's guests because there are
not too many people that I feel like truly understand
where I'm coming from as it relates to having to
build confidence within yourself when they are are things that
impact you that physically could tear.
Speaker 4 (05:03):
Your confidence down.
Speaker 3 (05:04):
So I am incredibly excited to have Harmiani Laddimer with
us today. You guys might remember Armani from a few
weeks ago in December. She's the Dallas Cowboys cheerleader that
really tore it up with the new style and it's
ever performing balls, which is something that we had never
seen before, and certainly had never seen before from a
(05:27):
Dallas Cowboy cheerleader because if you got a reputation of
the Cowboys cheerleaders, that was like the standard.
Speaker 4 (05:32):
Now, Harmiani, I gotta tell you a secret, okay, because
I know Urel's not gonna know that I'm gonna bring
this up.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
I bring this up.
Speaker 3 (05:40):
A couple episodes ago, we had a conversation about what
we thought we were gonna be when we grow up
versus what we actually are.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
And need to be a Dallas Cowboys.
Speaker 5 (05:56):
Oh my goodness, Well you know what. It's never too late.
Oh no, it's too late.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
Oh no, no sense, it's way too late. Yeah, trust
trust me what I her.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
Listen, Listen before we get into a serious conversation.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
I've watched documentaries.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
I know what y'all do, and after watching it, my
body just can't do some of the moves that y'all do.
So trust me what I tell you. It is too late,
and I'm okay with it. I am living vicariously through you.
Speaker 5 (06:29):
Okay about that?
Speaker 1 (06:31):
Talk about that? Okay, that is the best.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
But tee, I do need to say this before we
get into this conversation, And.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
For those of you that missed it, please.
Speaker 2 (06:40):
Go google because I know y'all can do that. Go
google this cis Rmani Latimer and.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
See what she did. Let me just tell you.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
How powerful, empowering, sexy, like all of those things, you
did it.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
You brought it, and we are.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
Giving you your flowers right now because it shouldn't be
something that we're celebrating, right It's part of life. But
you did it, and there were so many women that
saluted you and said thank you for being your authentic
self and not being ashamed to show that. So I
am saying thank you and also thank you for being
(07:22):
here for this conversation.
Speaker 5 (07:23):
Yeah, thank you so much, and thank you for having me.
I think I've had this conversation with plenty of people
about just wanting to start the conversation because, like you said,
it shouldn't be anything that you have to congratulate me about.
It should be a normal topic of conversation.
Speaker 1 (07:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (07:38):
Absolutely, So how do we even begin because I think
that is the part that is very difficult for a
lot of us. So I was diagnosed officially with alopecia
back in twenty seventeen. I'd always known in my heart
of hearts that I had it. I also found out
that it was hereditary for me. But I actually, for
(08:00):
a long time also blamed myself, right because as a
black woman, we love to wear certain hairstyles, right, And
so I know that for a long time, I could
start to see myself speeding up a process that was
already there. And so for those who may not be
familiar with the term, I started off having traction alopecia,
which is where I was wearing hairstyles that were disturbing
(08:23):
my hair follicles, and so wearing wigs. I was a
performer in the band in college, so I had my
hair is something different every single day, wearing wigs, wearing braids.
It started to pull, but I was wondering why I
was having an issue growing it back. I tried all
of the remedies. Use these oils, put your hair this way,
do this thing, take these vitamins, and it was just
(08:45):
like I'm reading that this is reversible. I'm seeing that
this is supposed to work, but it's not working and
I don't understand why. And that was because what I
didn't know was that I actually had alopecia areata, which
is where it's gone and baby is gone and patches
like yeah gone. So it was a difficult concept to
(09:09):
come to grips with because we know how we feel
about our hair as women, as Black women.
Speaker 4 (09:15):
It was like, what, but you were diagnosed with.
Speaker 3 (09:19):
Alopecia at the age of twelve, So please share with
us just what that was like finding that out, number one,
but also at such a young age, how you were
able to kind of handle that, which your first reaction
was to that.
Speaker 5 (09:35):
Yeah, So when you're twelve, not too much throws you off.
Course you're just like, oh, okay, And my dad has
alopecia universalis, so I grew up with that inside of
my household. So the term alopecia didn't really affect me
in a way just because, like I saw my dad
go throughout his daily life and he's still this very
(09:57):
confident man, this very bubbly outspit person. So again, it
didn't really hit for me at the age of twelve.
But also I'm still in school. I hear all of
the things that kids are saying, especially the males in
my classes in the black community. You know, they would say, oh,
if you can't grow your hair like, you're this, if
you have short hair, you're that. So just knowing that
(10:19):
I could potentially either end up like my dad or
just have my hair fall out, that was something that
always did sit in the back of my mind, all
of the conversations that I would just overhear, and I
think it made me want to hold back and not
disclose what I was going through with people who were
around me. But as I grew up, I started surrounding
(10:40):
myself with people who I felt comfortable, who I felt
like were my safe space, and slowly started disclosing this
information to them. And I didn't really have that many
bald spots growing up. It didn't really become more prominent
until my later years in high school and in college,
and those are the years that are typically more stressful.
(11:01):
You're thinking about college decisions and then you're in college
and you're away from home. And I was on the
dance team, so you know all the hairstyles that come
with being on the dance team and things like that.
So just having to really stay grounded within myself and
my community going throughout that process. And I will say
my dad was a very big person that I could
(11:22):
go to and have those conversations with about alopecia, but
my mom was really my backbone because even though my
dad did have it, he doesn't understand what women go
through as far as losing their hair and the struggles
that we go through with our hair. So having to
lean on my mom throughout those processes as well, and
having her help me with different hairstyles that could either
cover up a bold spot or if I wanted a
(11:45):
specific hairstyle, she would tweak it to where it wouldn't
affect the spots that were already there. Yeah. You know.
Then I lost all of my hair a few years
ago and here we are today.
Speaker 1 (11:56):
Wow. Wow.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
So you talk about your dad having what kind of alopecia?
Speaker 5 (12:09):
The universalist so that means you can't have any hair anywhere,
no eyebrows, eyelashes, orn't bit hair anything.
Speaker 1 (12:16):
Wow. And see, all I'm familiar.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
With is alopecia, right, not all the different types of alopecia.
So this is very educational for me as well, because
I was going to ask you the question of growing up.
You said your dad had alopecia, so you kind of understood.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
What it was. Do you feel like it's different though, right,
Like it's different for men to accept it versus a
woman to accept it.
Speaker 5 (12:43):
I don't want to speak on behalf of a man
because obviously I'm not one, but I do feel like
there are differences because you know, there is the male
pattern baldness, and typically you don't really think of man
as having long hair, and if they do, you're just like, oh, okay, great.
But I think the beauty standards of a woman is
(13:05):
a lot more centered around hair and what their face
looks like. So it is a lot harder for women
when we start losing our hair because our hair has
been our identity for so as long as we can remember.
Speaker 3 (13:19):
Yeah, and I mean even from just that saying, not
even just from us, like society's perception of you is
often based. I mean, I remember reading something a few
years ago in which I want to say it might
have even been People magazine kind of did an outline
of like the last fifty years and looking at like
models and like.
Speaker 4 (13:37):
What their standard of beauty was.
Speaker 3 (13:39):
And you know, anytime black women were included, it was
mostly very fair skinned women, and it was usually women
who had very pretty straight, kind of mixed fine hair,
or she was wearing a weave and it was you know,
the good, good we Yeah, And so it was just
like there's just this commercialized acceptance of what beauty has
(14:04):
looked like. And I think even when we started to
trend more towards women who are wearing their natural hair,
women who are wearing locks, women who are wearing FROs,
it's still feels as if it were you know, thickness
and a lot of it. Right, It's still never felt
like short hair or bald hair still identified as a
(14:28):
type of beauty.
Speaker 5 (14:29):
I think that's something that you learn growing up. Like
you said, it's there, It's on billboards, it's on commercials,
and it's something that you just see every day. So
even if you're trying to think about, okay, beauty is
my natural state, you're not seeing that reflected. You're not
seeing that like you're not looking in a mirror, looking
at a billboard or a commercial.
Speaker 2 (14:50):
Yeah, and especially for a black woman, like for a
black woman we even today, yes, it's gotten better, but
I think for the most.
Speaker 1 (14:59):
Part social media, when you.
Speaker 2 (15:02):
Look at it and you see it, beauty is portrayed
as having this long, silky mane, and not a lot
of women who look like us. So I want to
ask you. You were diagnosed at twelve, but when did
you get to a point where you were like, you
know what, this is me, I'm okay with it. I'm
(15:25):
going to accept this and this is who I am.
Speaker 5 (15:27):
I honestly and truly, I think I got to that
point once I lost all of my hair. It was
still a constant struggle of accepting and getting over the
anger of the fact that I even had this condition
throughout the entire process, because when you have alopecia arieta,
(15:49):
you can get bald spots, but then they can grow back. Yeah,
And so once they're grown, once they're grown back, you're like, okay, great,
I feel like myself again. And then as soon as
you see the first bald spot again, you restart the
process all the way over. And if you're not fully
accepting of that process yet, it's very difficult to go
through that every few months or every few weeks, or
(16:10):
however often the bald spots are occurring. So I think, honestly,
it was the biggest blessing in disguise that I had
to become fully accepted of who I was as a
person when I lost all of my hair because there
was no Oh, it's just.
Speaker 4 (16:27):
A bald spot.
Speaker 5 (16:28):
It's going to grow back. At that point, it's like
it's gone. I have a smooth head sitting on top
of my body. We have to do the work now,
We have to figure out how we feel about ourselves now.
And it is a lot more difficult when you're in
a situation where the beauty standard is hair. Especially being
on a protein it's a lot harder. And you're around
(16:53):
women who are just as beautiful as you are, but
you're looking and you're like, you have all of your hair,
but I don't have any of mine. How do I
go throughout this process of accepting who I am while
also giving you your flowers and telling you that you
still look beautiful even though we're different. It's a difficult process,
but yeah, I feel like going through that is when
(17:14):
I fully accepted, like this is me, this is who
I am.
Speaker 4 (17:17):
Yeah, that's a very fair point.
Speaker 3 (17:19):
I always find it interesting because it seems like sometimes
those of us who outwardly kind of feel and look
and appear like we're the most confident people in the world,
like some folks have no idea what it takes for
us to continue to present that way, especially when your
issue or your challenge has to do with something that
is physical like here. I also did not come to
(17:42):
that acceptance until I'd say maybe twenty eighteen.
Speaker 4 (17:46):
So I had done a big.
Speaker 3 (17:46):
Chop like twice, right, yeah, and the first time my
hair kind of grew bad. But like that's when I
really knew something was wrong, like cause, girl, my shit
was like.
Speaker 1 (17:56):
Accept it a girl?
Speaker 3 (17:59):
No?
Speaker 4 (17:59):
And then then I tried it again.
Speaker 3 (18:02):
I tried it again, and then I did the big
chop the second time in twenty nineteen. Except in twenty nineteen,
I went all balls and I was so nervous the
day that I walked out of my house and I
was like, no matter what I thought or what someone
said in my head, in my mind, I felt like
they were saying, why this girl got a ball here?
Speaker 4 (18:21):
Look at the yea.
Speaker 3 (18:23):
Granted, they were probably looking at me like I love
your coat.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
Or you know you.
Speaker 4 (18:29):
Yeah right, But in.
Speaker 3 (18:31):
My mind I only thought that they were looking at
me to talk about my head or to talk about
my hair, like that's all I could see. It took
developing a circle for people to be like, including my husband,
but it took a circle to just be like girl,
like you're fine, we love you, like you're beautiful.
Speaker 4 (18:48):
This doesn't define you.
Speaker 3 (18:50):
How did you develop a circle or a support system
to help you get through those moments where it didn't
feel like you would be a kind of find that interconfidence.
Speaker 4 (19:01):
On your own.
Speaker 5 (19:03):
Yeah. So my family obviously is my number one supporter
throughout everything that I've done in my life. But I've
been fortunate enough to just take on these gems of
friends throughout my entire journey, and I think just developing
a strong friendship and allowing myself to think of them
as my safe space really helped when I would disclose
(19:26):
what I was going through with them. But of course,
like my friends from you know, high school and college,
they already knew that I was going through it. Then
you step into a new world of being on a
team with thirty five other girls. Yeah, and normally people think, Okay,
thirty six women in a room together, bound to be
some drama, there's bound to be caddied as no one
gets along. But no doubt, it's absolutely the opposite. And
(19:50):
it's great that it is the opposite, because I don't
think that going through what I went through while still
on the team I would have been able to be
the point where I am now. So I slowly started
disclosing it to some of my teammates, and then we
had a Bible study one Tuesday afternoon and I just
(20:10):
bared my soul to everyone. And then from then on
it was I just got nothing but support, and I
honestly don't think I would have gotten through that game
experience without them, So I I credit all of my
confidence to my support system.
Speaker 1 (20:26):
Wow, that's big to you have a follow up.
Speaker 3 (20:30):
Well, actually, I was just gonna say really quick that
I think it is.
Speaker 4 (20:35):
It says a lot about.
Speaker 3 (20:36):
Who you are when you can go weeks with wigs
on and people think that he is coming out of
your scalp.
Speaker 4 (20:42):
Girl, that means.
Speaker 5 (20:48):
Shout shout out to her for real, because she's also
been a key person in this whole process as well.
Speaker 1 (20:58):
For real, for real.
Speaker 2 (20:59):
So I have a question, and T maybe you can
answer this too, because I, again it's not new to me.
But the educational part is does alopecia affect other races
the same as Black women.
Speaker 5 (21:14):
I don't know statistics off the top of my head,
but I will say that our community is more affected
by alopecia than other communities. Everyone goes through alopecia, whether
they realize it or not. But because of the different
types of hairstyles that Black women have done over the years,
it does cause from history, from history, yes, it does
cause alopecia more in our community, and not just like
(21:36):
alopecia arieta, but like traction. Yes, there's alopecia that comes
from stress. You know, our community has a lot of stress.
There's different types of alopecia that affect our community a
lot more than others.
Speaker 3 (21:46):
Yeah, I'll piggyback off that same thing. The Black community
is highly more affected by alopecia than other communities. And
again there are different types. Like at the top, I
mentioned traction alopecia, which is specifically due to trauma to
soar parts of your hair, and that usually is reversible.
Alopecia arieta is usually when your hair comes out in
like different ball spots and places. Like even men have
(22:09):
gotten it, like in their beards where you could see
like pieces of hair or like come out of their
beards and things like that.
Speaker 4 (22:15):
So it's it's different thing.
Speaker 3 (22:17):
And I know a lot of people Usually when I
have to explain to someone what alopecia universalis is is.
I use the former NBA player Charlie Villanueva.
Speaker 4 (22:26):
People usually remember.
Speaker 3 (22:28):
That he was like completely bald, no eyebrows, no lashes,
like He's the first example that I can give, because
I don't think people really realize like what he was
going through. And I know recently, over the last few years,
I think the conversation about alopecia is starting to pick
up more now. This could be because folks are literally
(22:50):
just trying to gain more understanding and education. It could
also be because of what happened at the oscars with
Jada Pine and Will Smith and the.
Speaker 4 (22:59):
Jokes about that. So there could be a lot of
reasons why the.
Speaker 3 (23:02):
Conversation is picked up, but I absolutely love that we
are having it. And that leads me to the question
as to why you felt the time was right in
December for the Might Cause My Cleats for you to
be able to bring more attention to alopecia.
Speaker 5 (23:19):
Yeah. So, like you said, My Cause My Cleats was
going on, and the Dallas Cowbust cheerleaders decided to adapt
that into our own so we have My Cause My
Boots and so for the past two seasons I've done
alopecia awareness, but I had really not tapped into all
that I could in my opinion of helping to raise awareness.
(23:42):
So one year I decided to film a video of
myself getting ready for game day without my wig on,
and I had to have my teammate posted and I said,
you're not posting this until right before we go out
for the game. That way, I can't check my phone.
I don't want to see any comments anything like that.
I just want to post it and then go out
and do what I love to do with just to dance.
(24:03):
And little did I note that video was gonna have
so much traction by the time I came back just
at halftime. By the end of the game, it was
ten times more that. And just knowing that I was
coming up on some of my last few games, I
knew that I wanted to do something a little bigger.
And I had this voice in my head saying, you
can go bigger, you can go bigger. And I just
(24:27):
tapped into that voice and I said, you know what,
I can go bigger. And I saw a lot of
comments about people saying, oh, I think she would be
iconic if she would dance without a wig or you
guys should let her dance without a wig. And I
think it's funny that a lot of people think that
Kelly and Judy were not letting me dance with.
Speaker 1 (24:43):
I was gonna say, you do it.
Speaker 5 (24:46):
Yeah, I was like, no, they've been very supportive on
if I want to dance with a wig or without
a wig. I did present it to Kelly Fanglass, our director.
I said, what do you think? This is my idea
and she said that if I was one hundred percent comfortable,
then she absolutely loved the idea. And from then I
(25:07):
just knew it was going to happen. And they kept
checking in on me and they're like, are you sure?
Are you okay? And I was like, if you guys
keep asking me, I might change my mind. So sing
more questions. But yeah, So that's just how it came about.
And my mom I was talking to her about this
the other day. She's like, I don't know if you remember,
but when you first lost all of your hair, you
(25:29):
lost it on a Saturday night before a Monday night
football game, and you were really worried about how you
were going to dance in a wig with no hair
on a Monday night football game. And then for me
to come back a few years later and dance at
a Monday night football game with no wig. She was
like that, that's just a godwig. Like nothing else could
(25:52):
have could have created that moment.
Speaker 1 (25:54):
I mean, I.
Speaker 5 (25:54):
Didn't even remember that, So the fact that she remember
that and pointed that out to me, I was in tears.
I was like, it was meant to be, honestly.
Speaker 2 (26:01):
That's why even at the beginning I said, for me,
seeing that was such a powerful statement. Like people say
all the time, it's only hair. We can go get
a week, we can go get a wig. But if
you're someone like yourself, t who suffers from alopecia, it's
(26:23):
more than just hair, right. It is a statement, it's
a moment. It's you feeling, am I strong enough to
do this? Because you also have to think, and especially
in your profession, because you think of the Dallas Cowboys cheerleaders,
which again is why I'm glad that was on my profession.
Because you think of the Dallas Cowboys cheerleaders, and this
(26:44):
is why I wanted to be one.
Speaker 1 (26:45):
You think beauty, hair.
Speaker 2 (26:48):
Gorgeous dancers, legs, all of these things, and so for
you to feel power empowered enough and embolden enough to say,
I don't really care what y'all think, this is what
I'm gonna do, and you're either gonna like it or
you're not.
Speaker 4 (27:05):
But I love it.
Speaker 5 (27:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:07):
Like, there are probably so many people who maybe you
won't even hear from, but so many people who felt
connected to you in that moment. What has the feedback
been like since that game?
Speaker 5 (27:20):
Oh, it's been absolutely positive, overwhelmingly so, but in the
best ways. I think, like we were saying earlier, the
conversation has become a lot more prevalent the longer that
you know, alopecia has been out there, and I think
this moment just jumped started even more of a conversation
(27:41):
just simply because we've seen men who are in the
public eye who have alopecia, and we've seen some people
like Jada Pinkett Smith in the news and all the things,
but never really in a moment such as this where
tons of people are literally sitting on their couches watching
a Monday night football game and they're like, Hey, are
(28:04):
y'all saying what I'm saying?
Speaker 1 (28:07):
Did she lose?
Speaker 4 (28:09):
Does something happen?
Speaker 5 (28:11):
And then for the to come out of She didn't
lose her wig. She simply just has alopecia, and she
wanted to raise awareness. And I think that the way
that people really have just jumped and they're like, oh
my gosh, answer all these questions. I have a friend
that has alopecia. I actually grew up with someone who alopecia,
and I didn't realize it at the time, but now
I do realize that they're grown adults who are having
(28:34):
these conversations with their children. And I think that's just
the best part is everyone's trying to learn and figure
out what this is, how does it affect people that
I know? And I think that's just so beautiful that
it brings us together in that way, because there's so
many things in this world that can tear us apart.
Speaker 3 (29:00):
Cheryl, I want to go back to something that you
said and ARMANI maybe this is different for you, but
I think for me, I am one of those people
who have become hair is hair now, Like I am
one of those people now who maybe when I was younger,
because I've had a head full of hair, it was
very long, all that good stuff, and so I used
to be one of those people who are very cognizant.
Speaker 4 (29:21):
Now I am totally hair is hair.
Speaker 3 (29:25):
I have friends who say to me all the time,
I really want to die my hair blue, but I'm
not sure how it looks.
Speaker 4 (29:30):
Girl, Just do it. Go for it, because there's more
in the store.
Speaker 5 (29:34):
If you don't want to dye your own, no, there's more, and.
Speaker 3 (29:39):
You will be fined like I have such a I
don't want to say a love hate relationship, but I'm
saying I think I have to be very indifferent now
because I think the more that I put into it,
the more it may break my confidence that I don't
have it the way that I want it. So I
think for me, it's it's the idea of hair is hair,
(30:01):
Like there's so much of it, there's plenty of it.
I can change it when I want, I can do
something different. You might see me on a show tonight
and I could be a complete blonde and love it
like I love the ability to interchange that.
Speaker 5 (30:14):
Now.
Speaker 4 (30:14):
Of course, we also got to have the face, right because.
Speaker 3 (30:16):
Everybody, because faces don't lie.
Speaker 4 (30:20):
Like that's the truth right there, right.
Speaker 3 (30:22):
I don't know if your relationship with hair has changed
throughout this time, because Mine's totally did. Like now, I'm
just I will go and try anything because I've come
to learn that I am so much more than my hair.
Speaker 5 (30:36):
Yeah, I would definitely say the same for me, and
I've tried to wig with bangs. It's a lot easier
to dress up as a different character because by a
wig that looks like the character and boom, slap it on.
I was Toxic Cleopatrick for Halloween, so I had the big,
curly blonde wig on. I think because I've had to
go through this journey, Like you said, hair is hair now,
(30:59):
and if I continue to put so much emphasis on
not having my own hair, it's going to hold me
back as a person, and I don't ever want to
do that. I love my personality. I love being able
to be open and fun and bubbling with people. So
the fact that I have to change my mindset of
it is just hair, I think that's that's been a
(31:20):
lot healthier for me.
Speaker 1 (31:22):
Yeah, for sure, it's so inspiring.
Speaker 2 (31:25):
Though I have days I'm like Tea, I will change
my hair up in a second.
Speaker 1 (31:31):
They have this on right now in an hour, You're
gonna be like, dang, you already did that.
Speaker 2 (31:36):
But the thing I will say is I'm not there
yet though, Like I don't want I don't even want
my husband seeing me without my wig, you know what
I mean, because I don't like what's underneath. So for again,
thank you. I'm just I'm thanking you for being you.
Speaker 1 (31:55):
And doing what you did. It's it's so incredibly inspiring,
empower falling.
Speaker 3 (32:01):
Yeah, you and I have been best friends ever since,
even though you didn't meet me until today, We've had
best friends for a muff now. Sis, I've been like,
that's my girl.
Speaker 5 (32:12):
I love it.
Speaker 4 (32:16):
I am so I.
Speaker 3 (32:17):
Was so so so so so so so happy, just
because again we just don't we don't see it. And
so I'm a huge football fan. My husband's an Eagles fan.
Speaker 4 (32:26):
We hate the Cowboys, and so.
Speaker 5 (32:30):
We just became best friends.
Speaker 1 (32:36):
Done.
Speaker 5 (32:36):
I'm like, look, I got little money behind me too.
Speaker 4 (32:39):
That's him, that's him.
Speaker 3 (32:42):
It's not me, it's not me. It was the best
thing in the world. And so of course when I'm
taking the video at first, he's like, I know you're
not about to show me no Cowboys video, Like what
are you doing?
Speaker 1 (32:51):
I'm like, no, I think this is bigger than football.
This is bigger than football right now.
Speaker 5 (32:58):
Cheerleaders, I'm just showing you that.
Speaker 4 (33:00):
I'm showing you women relax, like how you're doing. And
when he saw it and he saw you, he was like,
you like that? Don't you you like that?
Speaker 3 (33:10):
Because he knows like how much I care about spreading
the word and getting people aware of alopecia in ways
that they can help. So before we get out of here,
I would love to know is there a program or
a partnership or is there something that you're currently doing
or working with or that you want to draw attention
(33:30):
to for people who may want to be more involved
and spreading awareness about alopecia.
Speaker 5 (33:36):
Yeah, for sure. Go to the National Alopecia Arietta Foundation.
Their website. They have so many links doctors who are
affiliated with the foundation as well, who talk about all
of the new products that are out. I think there's
three that have been FDA approved within the last few
years on like pills and supplements that have helped people
(33:58):
grow their hair back. If that's the direct that you
want to go to. They have a conference every year
and may or may not be there this year, so
we'll keep our fingers crossed. But yeah, I think that's
the big one. There's so many PECIA organizations within each state.
I know there's a big one in the DFW. There's
(34:18):
big ones in the DFW area. I'd simply just go
on Facebook or Instagram and type in alopecia and you
can find so many people who started these movements to
help people become more comfortable in their skin. And just honestly,
just get your own support system. At the same time, like,
while you're doing all this research and trying to find
(34:40):
your outside community, make sure you have an inside community
as well, because you can connect with people and they
can lift you up. But there's just some there's a
different connection with the people who genuinely know the ins
and outs of you and their love and their support
and what that can do for your healing, for your soul.
So always try and build that community up as well.
(35:01):
And I'll just say I kind of want to go
back to you, Cheryl, how you were saying about how
you haven't become that comfortable yet. I just want to say,
that's okay for anybody who's at that point, because it's
your journey. It's not my journey, it's not anybody else's journey.
You have to take every single step at the pace
that you are absolutely comfortable with, because if you try
(35:22):
to skip steps, that's what's going to be detrimental. So yeah,
that that's just kind of my little spiel.
Speaker 4 (35:29):
I love that.
Speaker 2 (35:30):
Yeah, because I was going to ask you if you
had any advice, but you answered tease question and mine
all in one, so.
Speaker 5 (35:35):
I was already in your brain you were.
Speaker 1 (35:39):
That's why we be.
Speaker 2 (35:42):
I'm gonna put this question out there, and I know
she's not gonna answer it, but are the Cowboys gonna
be any better next year? Okay, you ain't got to
answer it, but I had to say.
Speaker 5 (35:51):
You know, I have to say, I'd say it. Are
you not a Cowboys fan?
Speaker 4 (35:55):
Either?
Speaker 5 (35:59):
I do like the Texans. I am a Cabins fans
through and through.
Speaker 1 (36:03):
Come Texans dancer.
Speaker 5 (36:04):
Then I am a little bit jealous that you'll cheerleaders
got to dance with Beyonce? Very say about that?
Speaker 1 (36:12):
How about all?
Speaker 5 (36:14):
So I did tell my teavates, I said, I might
have to go in audition for the Texans really quick,
just to dance with Beyonce and then yeah, just for
Christmas and I'll be back.
Speaker 2 (36:27):
Okay, that's that was That was pretty special.
Speaker 1 (36:30):
Yeah, it wasn't, but it was pretty special even just
to watch it.
Speaker 5 (36:34):
So I don't know if the Cowboys are going to
be better next year, but you know, the Dallas Cowboys
cheerleaders always win.
Speaker 4 (36:40):
So always, always, always, always like always just fly. Yes,
just set the standard. It is is what it is.
You set the standard. Yeah, thank our money.
Speaker 3 (36:53):
So appreciate you joining us and taking some time to
talk to us.
Speaker 4 (36:57):
And we will be watching.
Speaker 3 (37:00):
And following because clearly, of course, because you know that's
my best friend, y'all.
Speaker 2 (37:08):
We're like, keep doing you sis, thank you, thank you,
thank you.
Speaker 4 (37:14):
I love it.
Speaker 5 (37:19):
Sure.
Speaker 4 (37:20):
I almost pulled to you.
Speaker 3 (37:22):
When HARMANI was telling us the story about just like
finding her circle and how her mom.
Speaker 4 (37:28):
Realized that it was like five years to the.
Speaker 3 (37:30):
Time where she was using her hair, I almost shed
a tear because that's.
Speaker 1 (37:35):
Like that, don't be talking to you.
Speaker 4 (37:39):
Because it was like that.
Speaker 2 (37:42):
Just talking to her and hearing her story and she's
just strong, like she's a badass b h to me.
And I mean that in a good way, not a
bad way. I just I appreciate the conversation. I appreciate
the vulnerability. I don't know a lot of women who
would do what she did in their workplace. And she's
(38:03):
a Dallas Cowboys cheerleader, Like, there are standards, there are things.
Speaker 1 (38:08):
That come with being a Dallas Cowboys cheerleader.
Speaker 2 (38:10):
And I can only imagine how nervous she was to say,
I am performing tonight without all of this hair.
Speaker 4 (38:19):
And my natural state. I love that.
Speaker 1 (38:22):
And she was beautiful, strong, sexy. I was like, oh,
hold on a minute.
Speaker 4 (38:28):
Yeah, I loved every bit of that.
Speaker 2 (38:30):
So I hope the people can really take something from
that conversation we had with her.
Speaker 4 (38:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (38:36):
Absolutely, we are every day redefining the standards of beauty
and I absolutely love that. And so with that, Cheryl,
let's go ahead and level us up. Listen, I got
one for you today.
Speaker 2 (38:46):
And to you know, I'm really big on just quotes,
Like everywhere here in my she shd, I have affirmations,
I have stuff. So this one's gonna be really short
and sweet and also based off of our conversation that
we just had with OURMANI I'm going to show it
to you. I'm going to read it, but I'm going
to show it to you because I don't.
Speaker 1 (39:03):
Know if you can see it. Can you see that
I can?
Speaker 4 (39:07):
That's a good one.
Speaker 1 (39:08):
Yeah, y'all, it says, be you, do you for you.
Speaker 2 (39:13):
I keep this sitting on my desk as a reminder
to be me, do me for me, and I hope
those words because it's very simple but powerful. Continue to
be you and do you for you, and all the
rest of the shit will fall in line. And if
(39:34):
it doesn't, it ain't meant for you, period.
Speaker 3 (39:36):
And that's just how we end in that because that's
that's it. That's a mic drop, and so it's that.
Thank you all so much for listening to Levels to this.
We will absolutely be back next week with more next
level conversations, just talking about.
Speaker 4 (39:50):
The real shit that we go through as women.
Speaker 3 (39:51):
But I tell you, guys this and I mean it
that this is not just our show, it is our show.
So we want to hear from you. Leave us a
review in Apple Podcast. You can email us at Levels
too this podcast at gmail dot com. You can tell
us what you thought of this week's show. You can
drop some topics that you love to hear about from us.
I tell you, guys this and I mean it that
(40:12):
this is not just our show, it is our show,
So we want.
Speaker 4 (40:15):
To hear from you.
Speaker 3 (40:16):
Leave us a review in Apple Podcasts. You can email
us at Levels Too This Podcast at gmail dot com.
Speaker 4 (40:22):
You can tell us what you thought of this week's show.
Speaker 3 (40:24):
You can drop some topics that you love to hear
about from us, but please make sure you're following our
Instagram at lttpod and until next time, keep your mentals
ground level and we'll be back next week.
Speaker 1 (40:36):
Peace.
Speaker 2 (40:39):
Listen to Levels to This on America's number one podcast.
Speaker 1 (40:42):
Network, iHeart.
Speaker 2 (40:44):
Open your free iHeart app and search Levels to This
with Cheryl Swoops and Treka Foster Brasby and start listening
Levels to.
Speaker 2 (00:00):
This is an iHeart women's sports production in partnership with
Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. You can find us on
the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 3 (00:14):
Hey everybody, I'm your girl, Tarrika Foster Brasby.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
What's up, y'all? I'm your girl Cheryl.
Speaker 3 (00:19):
Swoops And this is the Levels to this podcast, the
show where we share that it's levels to the shit
that women go through. And we have got such an
incredible show lined up for you today. Today we are
talking to a special guest who quite literally shocked the
world with her performance. But first, Cheryl, Yeah, we've got
(00:42):
to catch up. Man, it's been it's been a while,
it's been a week. What's new with you? I mean,
I know that we certainly have some new things going
on in the world. We have new administration, we have
new basketball leagues that did well their opening weekend. There's
a lot of newness going on right now. What's new
(01:04):
with you?
Speaker 1 (01:06):
Y'all have a new administration. Don't be I ain't got
shit to do with this.
Speaker 4 (01:11):
I'm not gonna do with that, nigga.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
Listen, I'm laughing. As my mom used to say to
keep from crying.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
Yes, tea, I don't know what to feel right now,
Like I'm angry, I'm sad, I'm scared.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
I'm not gonna put optimistic in there.
Speaker 3 (01:31):
Yeah, these executive orders have been interesting, hunting interesting.
Speaker 1 (01:36):
I was.
Speaker 4 (01:36):
But I'm gonna tell you what I found to be
so funny.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
Tell this is not gonna laugh.
Speaker 4 (01:41):
You are gonna laugh. You're gonna laugh at this because
this is.
Speaker 3 (01:44):
The only way, as your mom would say, and my
grandma would also say, you have to sometimes you have
to laugh to keep from crying. So my husband walks
in two days ago and he says what's going on?
Speaker 4 (01:56):
And I said, hey, wife, how were you?
Speaker 3 (01:59):
He was like, hey wife, yes, I said, yes, hey wife,
you didn't know.
Speaker 4 (02:05):
And he's like, what are you know? Like he's looking
at himself.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
Like did I change?
Speaker 3 (02:10):
And I said, oh, you haven't heard, And so he's like, no,
I haven't heard. I said, oh, well, your boy sign
an executive order that said that we have to now
address people by the sex that they were born, that
they were considered at conception. But considering that he ain't
got no scientists in a room, he probably doesn't know
that everyone is a female embryo at conception until several
(02:34):
weeks later when they developed their hormones to either be
male or female. So if girl have to address people
by the sex they were at conception, you, sir, at
conception was a woman, So how wife?
Speaker 1 (02:47):
How are you?
Speaker 5 (02:49):
He looked at me and said.
Speaker 4 (02:52):
About nothing.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
So that's true. That's true. That is so true.
Speaker 4 (02:58):
So I'm just gonna I'm just gonna address every man
I see it. Hey girl, what's up?
Speaker 1 (03:01):
Hey girl, Hey girl.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
I just don't want to waste any energy on this
conversation because we have such a great show, but I
will say big you know WNBA Free Agencies happening, so
that should be really interesting, unrivaled. Opening weekend was really good.
(03:25):
I watched Opening Night, but I hadn't. I haven't gotten
a chance to watch anymore, so I thought Opening Weekend
was really nice.
Speaker 1 (03:35):
It was good. AU is going on.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
Yes, there's a lot of basketball stuff going on in
that that does excite me.
Speaker 4 (03:45):
That's exciting.
Speaker 3 (03:47):
I got excited when I joined this show today and
I noticed that me and Sheryl are very similar as
it relates to our hairstyles.
Speaker 4 (03:54):
Today.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
My name real cute, though relatively she will be cute. Later.
Speaker 3 (04:01):
I think it's relative to about last because I think
you look amazing, but I.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
Think you too too.
Speaker 4 (04:06):
It's a there we.
Speaker 3 (04:07):
Go, and today we're actually gonna talk a lot about hair. Yeah,
because our guest is none other than Miss Armani Latimer.
Speaker 4 (04:16):
And so you all may remember Armani as.
Speaker 3 (04:18):
The Dallas Cowboys cheerleader who performed back in December bald
and it truly resonated with so many different people. As
someone who is an alopecia survivor and currently dealing with alopecia,
it is going to be so incredible to have a
conversation with her.
Speaker 4 (04:36):
So let's go ahead and just take this to the
next level.
Speaker 3 (04:43):
I am really excited about today's guests because there are
not too many people that I feel like truly understand
where I'm coming from as it relates to having to
build confidence within yourself when they are are things that
impact you that physically could tear.
Speaker 4 (05:03):
Your confidence down.
Speaker 3 (05:04):
So I am incredibly excited to have Harmiani Laddimer with
us today. You guys might remember Armani from a few
weeks ago in December. She's the Dallas Cowboys cheerleader that
really tore it up with the new style and it's
ever performing balls, which is something that we had never
seen before, and certainly had never seen before from a
(05:27):
Dallas Cowboy cheerleader because if you got a reputation of
the Cowboys cheerleaders, that was like the standard.
Speaker 4 (05:32):
Now, Harmiani, I gotta tell you a secret, okay, because
I know Urel's not gonna know that I'm gonna bring
this up.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
I bring this up.
Speaker 3 (05:40):
A couple episodes ago, we had a conversation about what
we thought we were gonna be when we grow up
versus what we actually are.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
And need to be a Dallas Cowboys.
Speaker 5 (05:56):
Oh my goodness, Well you know what. It's never too late.
Oh no, it's too late.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
Oh no, no sense, it's way too late. Yeah, trust
trust me what I her.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
Listen, Listen before we get into a serious conversation.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
I've watched documentaries.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
I know what y'all do, and after watching it, my
body just can't do some of the moves that y'all do.
So trust me what I tell you. It is too late,
and I'm okay with it. I am living vicariously through you.
Speaker 5 (06:29):
Okay about that?
Speaker 1 (06:31):
Talk about that? Okay, that is the best.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
But tee, I do need to say this before we
get into this conversation, And.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
For those of you that missed it, please.
Speaker 2 (06:40):
Go google because I know y'all can do that. Go
google this cis Rmani Latimer and.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
See what she did. Let me just tell you.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
How powerful, empowering, sexy, like all of those things, you
did it.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
You brought it, and we are.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
Giving you your flowers right now because it shouldn't be
something that we're celebrating, right It's part of life. But
you did it, and there were so many women that
saluted you and said thank you for being your authentic
self and not being ashamed to show that. So I
am saying thank you and also thank you for being
(07:22):
here for this conversation.
Speaker 5 (07:23):
Yeah, thank you so much, and thank you for having me.
I think I've had this conversation with plenty of people
about just wanting to start the conversation because, like you said,
it shouldn't be anything that you have to congratulate me about.
It should be a normal topic of conversation.
Speaker 1 (07:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (07:38):
Absolutely, So how do we even begin because I think
that is the part that is very difficult for a
lot of us. So I was diagnosed officially with alopecia
back in twenty seventeen. I'd always known in my heart
of hearts that I had it. I also found out
that it was hereditary for me. But I actually, for
(08:00):
a long time also blamed myself, right because as a
black woman, we love to wear certain hairstyles, right, And
so I know that for a long time, I could
start to see myself speeding up a process that was
already there. And so for those who may not be
familiar with the term, I started off having traction alopecia,
which is where I was wearing hairstyles that were disturbing
(08:23):
my hair follicles, and so wearing wigs. I was a
performer in the band in college, so I had my
hair is something different every single day, wearing wigs, wearing braids.
It started to pull, but I was wondering why I
was having an issue growing it back. I tried all
of the remedies. Use these oils, put your hair this way,
do this thing, take these vitamins, and it was just
(08:45):
like I'm reading that this is reversible. I'm seeing that
this is supposed to work, but it's not working and
I don't understand why. And that was because what I
didn't know was that I actually had alopecia areata, which
is where it's gone and baby is gone and patches
like yeah gone. So it was a difficult concept to
(09:09):
come to grips with because we know how we feel
about our hair as women, as Black women.
Speaker 4 (09:15):
It was like, what, but you were diagnosed with.
Speaker 3 (09:19):
Alopecia at the age of twelve, So please share with
us just what that was like finding that out, number one,
but also at such a young age, how you were
able to kind of handle that, which your first reaction
was to that.
Speaker 5 (09:35):
Yeah, So when you're twelve, not too much throws you off.
Course you're just like, oh, okay, And my dad has
alopecia universalis, so I grew up with that inside of
my household. So the term alopecia didn't really affect me
in a way just because, like I saw my dad
go throughout his daily life and he's still this very
(09:57):
confident man, this very bubbly outspit person. So again, it
didn't really hit for me at the age of twelve.
But also I'm still in school. I hear all of
the things that kids are saying, especially the males in
my classes in the black community. You know, they would say, oh,
if you can't grow your hair like, you're this, if
you have short hair, you're that. So just knowing that
(10:19):
I could potentially either end up like my dad or
just have my hair fall out, that was something that
always did sit in the back of my mind, all
of the conversations that I would just overhear, and I
think it made me want to hold back and not
disclose what I was going through with people who were
around me. But as I grew up, I started surrounding
(10:40):
myself with people who I felt comfortable, who I felt
like were my safe space, and slowly started disclosing this
information to them. And I didn't really have that many
bald spots growing up. It didn't really become more prominent
until my later years in high school and in college,
and those are the years that are typically more stressful.
(11:01):
You're thinking about college decisions and then you're in college
and you're away from home. And I was on the
dance team, so you know all the hairstyles that come
with being on the dance team and things like that.
So just having to really stay grounded within myself and
my community going throughout that process. And I will say
my dad was a very big person that I could
(11:22):
go to and have those conversations with about alopecia, but
my mom was really my backbone because even though my
dad did have it, he doesn't understand what women go
through as far as losing their hair and the struggles
that we go through with our hair. So having to
lean on my mom throughout those processes as well, and
having her help me with different hairstyles that could either
cover up a bold spot or if I wanted a
(11:45):
specific hairstyle, she would tweak it to where it wouldn't
affect the spots that were already there. Yeah. You know.
Then I lost all of my hair a few years
ago and here we are today.
Speaker 1 (11:56):
Wow. Wow.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
So you talk about your dad having what kind of alopecia?
Speaker 5 (12:09):
The universalist so that means you can't have any hair anywhere,
no eyebrows, eyelashes, orn't bit hair anything.
Speaker 1 (12:16):
Wow. And see, all I'm familiar.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
With is alopecia, right, not all the different types of alopecia.
So this is very educational for me as well, because
I was going to ask you the question of growing up.
You said your dad had alopecia, so you kind of understood.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
What it was. Do you feel like it's different though, right,
Like it's different for men to accept it versus a
woman to accept it.
Speaker 5 (12:43):
I don't want to speak on behalf of a man
because obviously I'm not one, but I do feel like
there are differences because you know, there is the male
pattern baldness, and typically you don't really think of man
as having long hair, and if they do, you're just like, oh, okay, great.
But I think the beauty standards of a woman is
(13:05):
a lot more centered around hair and what their face
looks like. So it is a lot harder for women
when we start losing our hair because our hair has
been our identity for so as long as we can remember.
Speaker 3 (13:19):
Yeah, and I mean even from just that saying, not
even just from us, like society's perception of you is
often based. I mean, I remember reading something a few
years ago in which I want to say it might
have even been People magazine kind of did an outline
of like the last fifty years and looking at like
models and like.
Speaker 4 (13:37):
What their standard of beauty was.
Speaker 3 (13:39):
And you know, anytime black women were included, it was
mostly very fair skinned women, and it was usually women
who had very pretty straight, kind of mixed fine hair,
or she was wearing a weave and it was you know,
the good, good we Yeah, And so it was just
like there's just this commercialized acceptance of what beauty has
(14:04):
looked like. And I think even when we started to
trend more towards women who are wearing their natural hair,
women who are wearing locks, women who are wearing FROs,
it's still feels as if it were you know, thickness
and a lot of it. Right, It's still never felt
like short hair or bald hair still identified as a
(14:28):
type of beauty.
Speaker 5 (14:29):
I think that's something that you learn growing up. Like
you said, it's there, It's on billboards, it's on commercials,
and it's something that you just see every day. So
even if you're trying to think about, okay, beauty is
my natural state, you're not seeing that reflected. You're not
seeing that like you're not looking in a mirror, looking
at a billboard or a commercial.
Speaker 2 (14:50):
Yeah, and especially for a black woman, like for a
black woman we even today, yes, it's gotten better, but
I think for the most.
Speaker 1 (14:59):
Part social media, when you.
Speaker 2 (15:02):
Look at it and you see it, beauty is portrayed
as having this long, silky mane, and not a lot
of women who look like us. So I want to
ask you. You were diagnosed at twelve, but when did
you get to a point where you were like, you
know what, this is me, I'm okay with it. I'm
(15:25):
going to accept this and this is who I am.
Speaker 5 (15:27):
I honestly and truly, I think I got to that
point once I lost all of my hair. It was
still a constant struggle of accepting and getting over the
anger of the fact that I even had this condition
throughout the entire process, because when you have alopecia arieta,
(15:49):
you can get bald spots, but then they can grow back. Yeah,
And so once they're grown, once they're grown back, you're like, okay, great,
I feel like myself again. And then as soon as
you see the first bald spot again, you restart the
process all the way over. And if you're not fully
accepting of that process yet, it's very difficult to go
through that every few months or every few weeks, or
(16:10):
however often the bald spots are occurring. So I think, honestly,
it was the biggest blessing in disguise that I had
to become fully accepted of who I was as a
person when I lost all of my hair because there
was no Oh, it's just.
Speaker 4 (16:27):
A bald spot.
Speaker 5 (16:28):
It's going to grow back. At that point, it's like
it's gone. I have a smooth head sitting on top
of my body. We have to do the work now,
We have to figure out how we feel about ourselves now.
And it is a lot more difficult when you're in
a situation where the beauty standard is hair. Especially being
on a protein it's a lot harder. And you're around
(16:53):
women who are just as beautiful as you are, but
you're looking and you're like, you have all of your hair,
but I don't have any of mine. How do I
go throughout this process of accepting who I am while
also giving you your flowers and telling you that you
still look beautiful even though we're different. It's a difficult process,
but yeah, I feel like going through that is when
(17:14):
I fully accepted, like this is me, this is who
I am.
Speaker 4 (17:17):
Yeah, that's a very fair point.
Speaker 3 (17:19):
I always find it interesting because it seems like sometimes
those of us who outwardly kind of feel and look
and appear like we're the most confident people in the world,
like some folks have no idea what it takes for
us to continue to present that way, especially when your
issue or your challenge has to do with something that
is physical like here. I also did not come to
(17:42):
that acceptance until I'd say maybe twenty eighteen.
Speaker 4 (17:46):
So I had done a big.
Speaker 3 (17:46):
Chop like twice, right, yeah, and the first time my
hair kind of grew bad. But like that's when I
really knew something was wrong, like cause, girl, my shit
was like.
Speaker 1 (17:56):
Accept it a girl?
Speaker 3 (17:59):
No?
Speaker 4 (17:59):
And then then I tried it again.
Speaker 3 (18:02):
I tried it again, and then I did the big
chop the second time in twenty nineteen. Except in twenty nineteen,
I went all balls and I was so nervous the
day that I walked out of my house and I
was like, no matter what I thought or what someone
said in my head, in my mind, I felt like
they were saying, why this girl got a ball here?
Speaker 4 (18:21):
Look at the yea.
Speaker 3 (18:23):
Granted, they were probably looking at me like I love
your coat.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
Or you know you.
Speaker 4 (18:29):
Yeah right, But in.
Speaker 3 (18:31):
My mind I only thought that they were looking at
me to talk about my head or to talk about
my hair, like that's all I could see. It took
developing a circle for people to be like, including my husband,
but it took a circle to just be like girl,
like you're fine, we love you, like you're beautiful.
Speaker 4 (18:48):
This doesn't define you.
Speaker 3 (18:50):
How did you develop a circle or a support system
to help you get through those moments where it didn't
feel like you would be a kind of find that interconfidence.
Speaker 4 (19:01):
On your own.
Speaker 5 (19:03):
Yeah. So my family obviously is my number one supporter
throughout everything that I've done in my life. But I've
been fortunate enough to just take on these gems of
friends throughout my entire journey, and I think just developing
a strong friendship and allowing myself to think of them
as my safe space really helped when I would disclose
(19:26):
what I was going through with them. But of course,
like my friends from you know, high school and college,
they already knew that I was going through it. Then
you step into a new world of being on a
team with thirty five other girls. Yeah, and normally people think, Okay,
thirty six women in a room together, bound to be
some drama, there's bound to be caddied as no one
gets along. But no doubt, it's absolutely the opposite. And
(19:50):
it's great that it is the opposite, because I don't
think that going through what I went through while still
on the team I would have been able to be
the point where I am now. So I slowly started
disclosing it to some of my teammates, and then we
had a Bible study one Tuesday afternoon and I just
(20:10):
bared my soul to everyone. And then from then on
it was I just got nothing but support, and I
honestly don't think I would have gotten through that game
experience without them, So I I credit all of my
confidence to my support system.
Speaker 1 (20:26):
Wow, that's big to you have a follow up.
Speaker 3 (20:30):
Well, actually, I was just gonna say really quick that
I think it is.
Speaker 4 (20:35):
It says a lot about.
Speaker 3 (20:36):
Who you are when you can go weeks with wigs
on and people think that he is coming out of
your scalp.
Speaker 4 (20:42):
Girl, that means.
Speaker 5 (20:48):
Shout shout out to her for real, because she's also
been a key person in this whole process as well.
Speaker 1 (20:58):
For real, for real.
Speaker 2 (20:59):
So I have a question, and T maybe you can
answer this too, because I, again it's not new to me.
But the educational part is does alopecia affect other races
the same as Black women.
Speaker 5 (21:14):
I don't know statistics off the top of my head,
but I will say that our community is more affected
by alopecia than other communities. Everyone goes through alopecia, whether
they realize it or not. But because of the different
types of hairstyles that Black women have done over the years,
it does cause from history, from history, yes, it does
cause alopecia more in our community, and not just like
(21:36):
alopecia arieta, but like traction. Yes, there's alopecia that comes
from stress. You know, our community has a lot of stress.
There's different types of alopecia that affect our community a
lot more than others.
Speaker 3 (21:46):
Yeah, I'll piggyback off that same thing. The Black community
is highly more affected by alopecia than other communities. And
again there are different types. Like at the top, I
mentioned traction alopecia, which is specifically due to trauma to
soar parts of your hair, and that usually is reversible.
Alopecia arieta is usually when your hair comes out in
like different ball spots and places. Like even men have
(22:09):
gotten it, like in their beards where you could see
like pieces of hair or like come out of their
beards and things like that.
Speaker 4 (22:15):
So it's it's different thing.
Speaker 3 (22:17):
And I know a lot of people Usually when I
have to explain to someone what alopecia universalis is is.
I use the former NBA player Charlie Villanueva.
Speaker 4 (22:26):
People usually remember.
Speaker 3 (22:28):
That he was like completely bald, no eyebrows, no lashes,
like He's the first example that I can give, because
I don't think people really realize like what he was
going through. And I know recently, over the last few years,
I think the conversation about alopecia is starting to pick
up more now. This could be because folks are literally
(22:50):
just trying to gain more understanding and education. It could
also be because of what happened at the oscars with
Jada Pine and Will Smith and the.
Speaker 4 (22:59):
Jokes about that. So there could be a lot of
reasons why the.
Speaker 3 (23:02):
Conversation is picked up, but I absolutely love that we
are having it. And that leads me to the question
as to why you felt the time was right in
December for the Might Cause My Cleats for you to
be able to bring more attention to alopecia.
Speaker 5 (23:19):
Yeah. So, like you said, My Cause My Cleats was
going on, and the Dallas Cowbust cheerleaders decided to adapt
that into our own so we have My Cause My
Boots and so for the past two seasons I've done
alopecia awareness, but I had really not tapped into all
that I could in my opinion of helping to raise awareness.
(23:42):
So one year I decided to film a video of
myself getting ready for game day without my wig on,
and I had to have my teammate posted and I said,
you're not posting this until right before we go out
for the game. That way, I can't check my phone.
I don't want to see any comments anything like that.
I just want to post it and then go out
and do what I love to do with just to dance.
(24:03):
And little did I note that video was gonna have
so much traction by the time I came back just
at halftime. By the end of the game, it was
ten times more that. And just knowing that I was
coming up on some of my last few games, I
knew that I wanted to do something a little bigger.
And I had this voice in my head saying, you
can go bigger, you can go bigger. And I just
(24:27):
tapped into that voice and I said, you know what,
I can go bigger. And I saw a lot of
comments about people saying, oh, I think she would be
iconic if she would dance without a wig or you
guys should let her dance without a wig. And I
think it's funny that a lot of people think that
Kelly and Judy were not letting me dance with.
Speaker 1 (24:43):
I was gonna say, you do it.
Speaker 5 (24:46):
Yeah, I was like, no, they've been very supportive on
if I want to dance with a wig or without
a wig. I did present it to Kelly Fanglass, our director.
I said, what do you think? This is my idea
and she said that if I was one hundred percent comfortable,
then she absolutely loved the idea. And from then I
(25:07):
just knew it was going to happen. And they kept
checking in on me and they're like, are you sure?
Are you okay? And I was like, if you guys
keep asking me, I might change my mind. So sing
more questions. But yeah, So that's just how it came about.
And my mom I was talking to her about this
the other day. She's like, I don't know if you remember,
but when you first lost all of your hair, you
(25:29):
lost it on a Saturday night before a Monday night
football game, and you were really worried about how you
were going to dance in a wig with no hair
on a Monday night football game. And then for me
to come back a few years later and dance at
a Monday night football game with no wig. She was
like that, that's just a godwig. Like nothing else could
(25:52):
have could have created that moment.
Speaker 1 (25:54):
I mean, I.
Speaker 5 (25:54):
Didn't even remember that, So the fact that she remember
that and pointed that out to me, I was in tears.
I was like, it was meant to be, honestly.
Speaker 2 (26:01):
That's why even at the beginning I said, for me,
seeing that was such a powerful statement. Like people say
all the time, it's only hair. We can go get
a week, we can go get a wig. But if
you're someone like yourself, t who suffers from alopecia, it's
(26:23):
more than just hair, right. It is a statement, it's
a moment. It's you feeling, am I strong enough to
do this? Because you also have to think, and especially
in your profession, because you think of the Dallas Cowboys cheerleaders,
which again is why I'm glad that was on my profession.
Because you think of the Dallas Cowboys cheerleaders, and this
(26:44):
is why I wanted to be one.
Speaker 1 (26:45):
You think beauty, hair.
Speaker 2 (26:48):
Gorgeous dancers, legs, all of these things, and so for
you to feel power empowered enough and embolden enough to say,
I don't really care what y'all think, this is what
I'm gonna do, and you're either gonna like it or
you're not.
Speaker 4 (27:05):
But I love it.
Speaker 5 (27:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:07):
Like, there are probably so many people who maybe you
won't even hear from, but so many people who felt
connected to you in that moment. What has the feedback
been like since that game?
Speaker 5 (27:20):
Oh, it's been absolutely positive, overwhelmingly so, but in the
best ways. I think, like we were saying earlier, the
conversation has become a lot more prevalent the longer that
you know, alopecia has been out there, and I think
this moment just jumped started even more of a conversation
(27:41):
just simply because we've seen men who are in the
public eye who have alopecia, and we've seen some people
like Jada Pinkett Smith in the news and all the things,
but never really in a moment such as this where
tons of people are literally sitting on their couches watching
a Monday night football game and they're like, Hey, are
(28:04):
y'all saying what I'm saying?
Speaker 1 (28:07):
Did she lose?
Speaker 4 (28:09):
Does something happen?
Speaker 5 (28:11):
And then for the to come out of She didn't
lose her wig. She simply just has alopecia, and she
wanted to raise awareness. And I think that the way
that people really have just jumped and they're like, oh
my gosh, answer all these questions. I have a friend
that has alopecia. I actually grew up with someone who alopecia,
and I didn't realize it at the time, but now
I do realize that they're grown adults who are having
(28:34):
these conversations with their children. And I think that's just
the best part is everyone's trying to learn and figure
out what this is, how does it affect people that
I know? And I think that's just so beautiful that
it brings us together in that way, because there's so
many things in this world that can tear us apart.
Speaker 3 (29:00):
Cheryl, I want to go back to something that you
said and ARMANI maybe this is different for you, but
I think for me, I am one of those people
who have become hair is hair now, Like I am
one of those people now who maybe when I was younger,
because I've had a head full of hair, it was
very long, all that good stuff, and so I used
to be one of those people who are very cognizant.
Speaker 4 (29:21):
Now I am totally hair is hair.
Speaker 3 (29:25):
I have friends who say to me all the time,
I really want to die my hair blue, but I'm
not sure how it looks.
Speaker 4 (29:30):
Girl, Just do it. Go for it, because there's more
in the store.
Speaker 5 (29:34):
If you don't want to dye your own, no, there's more, and.
Speaker 3 (29:39):
You will be fined like I have such a I
don't want to say a love hate relationship, but I'm
saying I think I have to be very indifferent now
because I think the more that I put into it,
the more it may break my confidence that I don't
have it the way that I want it. So I
think for me, it's it's the idea of hair is hair,
(30:01):
Like there's so much of it, there's plenty of it.
I can change it when I want, I can do
something different. You might see me on a show tonight
and I could be a complete blonde and love it
like I love the ability to interchange that.
Speaker 5 (30:14):
Now.
Speaker 4 (30:14):
Of course, we also got to have the face, right because.
Speaker 3 (30:16):
Everybody, because faces don't lie.
Speaker 4 (30:20):
Like that's the truth right there, right.
Speaker 3 (30:22):
I don't know if your relationship with hair has changed
throughout this time, because Mine's totally did. Like now, I'm
just I will go and try anything because I've come
to learn that I am so much more than my hair.
Speaker 5 (30:36):
Yeah, I would definitely say the same for me, and
I've tried to wig with bangs. It's a lot easier
to dress up as a different character because by a
wig that looks like the character and boom, slap it on.
I was Toxic Cleopatrick for Halloween, so I had the big,
curly blonde wig on. I think because I've had to
go through this journey, Like you said, hair is hair now,
(30:59):
and if I continue to put so much emphasis on
not having my own hair, it's going to hold me
back as a person, and I don't ever want to
do that. I love my personality. I love being able
to be open and fun and bubbling with people. So
the fact that I have to change my mindset of
it is just hair, I think that's that's been a
(31:20):
lot healthier for me.
Speaker 1 (31:22):
Yeah, for sure, it's so inspiring.
Speaker 2 (31:25):
Though I have days I'm like Tea, I will change
my hair up in a second.
Speaker 1 (31:31):
They have this on right now in an hour, You're
gonna be like, dang, you already did that.
Speaker 2 (31:36):
But the thing I will say is I'm not there
yet though, Like I don't want I don't even want
my husband seeing me without my wig, you know what
I mean, because I don't like what's underneath. So for again,
thank you. I'm just I'm thanking you for being you.
Speaker 1 (31:55):
And doing what you did. It's it's so incredibly inspiring,
empower falling.
Speaker 3 (32:01):
Yeah, you and I have been best friends ever since,
even though you didn't meet me until today, We've had
best friends for a muff now. Sis, I've been like,
that's my girl.
Speaker 5 (32:12):
I love it.
Speaker 4 (32:16):
I am so I.
Speaker 3 (32:17):
Was so so so so so so so happy, just
because again we just don't we don't see it. And
so I'm a huge football fan. My husband's an Eagles fan.
Speaker 4 (32:26):
We hate the Cowboys, and so.
Speaker 5 (32:30):
We just became best friends.
Speaker 1 (32:36):
Done.
Speaker 5 (32:36):
I'm like, look, I got little money behind me too.
Speaker 4 (32:39):
That's him, that's him.
Speaker 3 (32:42):
It's not me, it's not me. It was the best
thing in the world. And so of course when I'm
taking the video at first, he's like, I know you're
not about to show me no Cowboys video, Like what
are you doing?
Speaker 1 (32:51):
I'm like, no, I think this is bigger than football.
This is bigger than football right now.
Speaker 5 (32:58):
Cheerleaders, I'm just showing you that.
Speaker 4 (33:00):
I'm showing you women relax, like how you're doing. And
when he saw it and he saw you, he was like,
you like that? Don't you you like that?
Speaker 3 (33:10):
Because he knows like how much I care about spreading
the word and getting people aware of alopecia in ways
that they can help. So before we get out of here,
I would love to know is there a program or
a partnership or is there something that you're currently doing
or working with or that you want to draw attention
(33:30):
to for people who may want to be more involved
and spreading awareness about alopecia.
Speaker 5 (33:36):
Yeah, for sure. Go to the National Alopecia Arietta Foundation.
Their website. They have so many links doctors who are
affiliated with the foundation as well, who talk about all
of the new products that are out. I think there's
three that have been FDA approved within the last few
years on like pills and supplements that have helped people
(33:58):
grow their hair back. If that's the direct that you
want to go to. They have a conference every year
and may or may not be there this year, so
we'll keep our fingers crossed. But yeah, I think that's
the big one. There's so many PECIA organizations within each state.
I know there's a big one in the DFW. There's
(34:18):
big ones in the DFW area. I'd simply just go
on Facebook or Instagram and type in alopecia and you
can find so many people who started these movements to
help people become more comfortable in their skin. And just honestly,
just get your own support system. At the same time, like,
while you're doing all this research and trying to find
(34:40):
your outside community, make sure you have an inside community
as well, because you can connect with people and they
can lift you up. But there's just some there's a
different connection with the people who genuinely know the ins
and outs of you and their love and their support
and what that can do for your healing, for your soul.
So always try and build that community up as well.
(35:01):
And I'll just say I kind of want to go
back to you, Cheryl, how you were saying about how
you haven't become that comfortable yet. I just want to say,
that's okay for anybody who's at that point, because it's
your journey. It's not my journey, it's not anybody else's journey.
You have to take every single step at the pace
that you are absolutely comfortable with, because if you try
(35:22):
to skip steps, that's what's going to be detrimental. So yeah,
that that's just kind of my little spiel.
Speaker 4 (35:29):
I love that.
Speaker 2 (35:30):
Yeah, because I was going to ask you if you
had any advice, but you answered tease question and mine
all in one, so.
Speaker 5 (35:35):
I was already in your brain you were.
Speaker 1 (35:39):
That's why we be.
Speaker 2 (35:42):
I'm gonna put this question out there, and I know
she's not gonna answer it, but are the Cowboys gonna
be any better next year? Okay, you ain't got to
answer it, but I had to say.
Speaker 5 (35:51):
You know, I have to say, I'd say it. Are
you not a Cowboys fan?
Speaker 4 (35:55):
Either?
Speaker 5 (35:59):
I do like the Texans. I am a Cabins fans
through and through.
Speaker 1 (36:03):
Come Texans dancer.
Speaker 5 (36:04):
Then I am a little bit jealous that you'll cheerleaders
got to dance with Beyonce? Very say about that?
Speaker 1 (36:12):
How about all?
Speaker 5 (36:14):
So I did tell my teavates, I said, I might
have to go in audition for the Texans really quick,
just to dance with Beyonce and then yeah, just for
Christmas and I'll be back.
Speaker 2 (36:27):
Okay, that's that was That was pretty special.
Speaker 1 (36:30):
Yeah, it wasn't, but it was pretty special even just
to watch it.
Speaker 5 (36:34):
So I don't know if the Cowboys are going to
be better next year, but you know, the Dallas Cowboys
cheerleaders always win.
Speaker 4 (36:40):
So always, always, always, always like always just fly. Yes,
just set the standard. It is is what it is.
You set the standard. Yeah, thank our money.
Speaker 3 (36:53):
So appreciate you joining us and taking some time to
talk to us.
Speaker 4 (36:57):
And we will be watching.
Speaker 3 (37:00):
And following because clearly, of course, because you know that's
my best friend, y'all.
Speaker 2 (37:08):
We're like, keep doing you sis, thank you, thank you,
thank you.
Speaker 4 (37:14):
I love it.
Speaker 5 (37:19):
Sure.
Speaker 4 (37:20):
I almost pulled to you.
Speaker 3 (37:22):
When HARMANI was telling us the story about just like
finding her circle and how her mom.
Speaker 4 (37:28):
Realized that it was like five years to the.
Speaker 3 (37:30):
Time where she was using her hair, I almost shed
a tear because that's.
Speaker 1 (37:35):
Like that, don't be talking to you.
Speaker 4 (37:39):
Because it was like that.
Speaker 2 (37:42):
Just talking to her and hearing her story and she's
just strong, like she's a badass b h to me.
And I mean that in a good way, not a
bad way. I just I appreciate the conversation. I appreciate
the vulnerability. I don't know a lot of women who
would do what she did in their workplace. And she's
(38:03):
a Dallas Cowboys cheerleader, Like, there are standards, there are things.
Speaker 1 (38:08):
That come with being a Dallas Cowboys cheerleader.
Speaker 2 (38:10):
And I can only imagine how nervous she was to say,
I am performing tonight without all of this hair.
Speaker 4 (38:19):
And my natural state. I love that.
Speaker 1 (38:22):
And she was beautiful, strong, sexy. I was like, oh,
hold on a minute.
Speaker 4 (38:28):
Yeah, I loved every bit of that.
Speaker 2 (38:30):
So I hope the people can really take something from
that conversation we had with her.
Speaker 4 (38:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (38:36):
Absolutely, we are every day redefining the standards of beauty
and I absolutely love that. And so with that, Cheryl,
let's go ahead and level us up. Listen, I got
one for you today.
Speaker 2 (38:46):
And to you know, I'm really big on just quotes,
Like everywhere here in my she shd, I have affirmations,
I have stuff. So this one's gonna be really short
and sweet and also based off of our conversation that
we just had with OURMANI I'm going to show it
to you. I'm going to read it, but I'm going
to show it to you because I don't.
Speaker 1 (39:03):
Know if you can see it. Can you see that
I can?
Speaker 4 (39:07):
That's a good one.
Speaker 1 (39:08):
Yeah, y'all, it says, be you, do you for you.
Speaker 2 (39:13):
I keep this sitting on my desk as a reminder
to be me, do me for me, and I hope
those words because it's very simple but powerful. Continue to
be you and do you for you, and all the
rest of the shit will fall in line. And if
(39:34):
it doesn't, it ain't meant for you, period.
Speaker 3 (39:36):
And that's just how we end in that because that's
that's it. That's a mic drop, and so it's that.
Thank you all so much for listening to Levels to this.
We will absolutely be back next week with more next
level conversations, just talking about.
Speaker 4 (39:50):
The real shit that we go through as women.
Speaker 3 (39:51):
But I tell you, guys this and I mean it
that this is not just our show, it is our show.
So we want to hear from you. Leave us a
review in Apple Podcast. You can email us at Levels
too this podcast at gmail dot com. You can tell
us what you thought of this week's show. You can
drop some topics that you love to hear about from us.
I tell you, guys this and I mean it that
(40:12):
this is not just our show, it is our show,
So we want.
Speaker 4 (40:15):
To hear from you.
Speaker 3 (40:16):
Leave us a review in Apple Podcasts. You can email
us at Levels Too This Podcast at gmail dot com.
Speaker 4 (40:22):
You can tell us what you thought of this week's show.
Speaker 3 (40:24):
You can drop some topics that you love to hear
about from us, but please make sure you're following our
Instagram at lttpod and until next time, keep your mentals
ground level and we'll be back next week.
Speaker 1 (40:36):
Peace.
Speaker 2 (40:39):
Listen to Levels to This on America's number one podcast.
Speaker 1 (40:42):
Network, iHeart.
Speaker 2 (40:44):
Open your free iHeart app and search Levels to This
with Cheryl Swoops and Treka Foster Brasby and start listening
Hosts And Creators
Terrika Foster-Brasby
Sheryl Swoopes
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