February 27, 2025 • 45 mins
In this crossover episode of Levels to This and ICYMI, Terrika Foster-Brasby, Sheryl Swoopes and Khristina Williams are coming to you live from NBA All-Star. They dive into the real-life balancing act of being a public figure in women's sports—juggling career, personal life, and the ever-present spotlight placed on women. From social media pressures to the evolving respect for female athletes, they break down the highs, the lows, and the importance of honoring the history of women's basketball.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Levels to This is an iHeart women's sports production in
partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. You can find
us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you
get your podcasts.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Good morning or good afternoon. I don't know what time
it is. I am still on East Coast time, so
in my head it's afternoon, but it could very well
be morning.
Speaker 3 (00:22):
But we're here.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Give a round, a boss for yourself. Thank you for here,
Thank you for being here. I am Tureka Foster Brasby,
host of the Levels to This podcast, and I am excited.
Speaker 3 (00:34):
To have.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Because I was getting ready to say it and I said,
oh no, she wants to introduce herself.
Speaker 4 (00:44):
I'm Christina Williams. I'm a host of In case you
miss It with Christina Williams.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
Yes, yes, So.
Speaker 5 (00:51):
I'm not even gonna let you look at me because
I'm getting the eyes.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
And I am Cheryl Swoops, I co host Levels to
This with the one and only Terrika cost to Brass.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
The time champion, the three time Olympia. Don't play on
her name, y'all.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
DoD you know who she is?
Speaker 6 (01:10):
Do you know who?
Speaker 2 (01:12):
We're very excited to be here today at NBA All
Star We are looking for a good day of fun
and a good day of excitement for the fans. But
you know what, I'll be the first to tell you
guys that sometimes it is incredibly difficult to be in
these spaces because you have moments where people recognize you.
(01:34):
They recognize you from the podcast, they recognize you from
the different things that you do. I know you guys
have people who recognize you all the time. And there
are moments where you're like, you know what, I just
kind of want to chill a little bit, right, Like
I want to have a drink, I want to kick back,
put my feet up, dance a little bit, shake a
little something something. And then there are times where it's
like you feel like maybe you can't do that because
(01:55):
you don't want people who see you or envision you
in a certain way to then look at you differently
or have things to say because they only see you
a certain way and they don't give you an opportunity
to kind of be yourself and enjoy yourself. And so
today we're kind of going to talk a little bit
about what it means to balance being who you are
(02:16):
and what you do, and how those two things are
completely separate. And Christina, I'm going to start with you
because we had a moment recently where we were like, Hey,
we're gonna go out, We're gonna have fun, but then
there was just a little bit of reservation. And I
think one thing, one thing that reminds me of that
(02:39):
is even like the women who we cover in the WNBA,
and how there are moments where we see them on
the court, we see what they do, we see how
they ball, and then we have to remind ourselves, and
maybe not us, but like people have to remind themselves
like what you are and what you do on the
court is not necessarily what you are and who you
(03:00):
are off the court in your personal life and your
personal endeavors. And so I'll start with you and go
around a shurel about what it means to try to
find a balance. We're gonna go there. We are absolutely
going there. I love that.
Speaker 4 (03:15):
Yeah, last night was a really real experience for me
because I feel like I'm still very new in this space,
although I've been in it for about seven eight years,
and so a lot a lot of me wants to
protect who I am, that public facing image versus my
private life and so I did. I did have reservations
about going out last night and people seeing me outside
(03:39):
of work, the work environment, and I guess it's something
you're laughing serial but it's for real, it's real. But no,
it's just something that I'm learning to balance. I'm not
there yet. I'm not gonna lie.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
I'm not there yet.
Speaker 4 (03:55):
You're just still learning learning how to navigate it, I guess.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
And surel for you, you having literally so much of
your life public right with being a superstar athlete, with
literally somebody can pick up Google and feel like they
can find everything about you. You know, how do you,
in your own way try to find a balance of
you being Churl the basketball player, the Hall of Famer,
(04:20):
and then you just being.
Speaker 1 (04:21):
Cheryl from Texas, from West Texas. I, first of all,
I think it's hard because I think if you ask
even people in the room, is it fair to say
that what you do at work, in your workplace, on
the court or whatever, you have to be that same
(04:44):
person outside of work. Personally, I don't think it's fair
because what I do outside of my job should be able.
I should be able to to be me. And I
think one of the biggest issues with that though, when
(05:04):
people are trying to portray you as being like, oh
my gosh, he or she they're like on all the
time and they're great and they're this and that. Like,
I think you give a false sense to little kids
growing up of everything's perfect, everything's great.
Speaker 5 (05:21):
Because it's not. Do we always make the right choices?
Speaker 4 (05:24):
No?
Speaker 1 (05:25):
Do we always make the right decision No, So I
think it's unfair to have those expectations. But for myself personally,
like it or not fair or unfair, I always know
that there's somebody somewhere watching me just to see am
I going to f up? So they can be able
(05:45):
to go and say, you see, she did mess up.
And I'll be the first to say, yeah, I do
make mistakes. But I try to be very cognizant of
my surroundings, where I'm at, what I'm doing, because I
know people are always going to even though that's not
our place to do that. But I always want to
have that not a perfect image, but I always want
(06:06):
to be that person where when especially little girls, when
they look at me, they can say, you know what, like,
I'm real. I'm just gonna be a real person regardless
of where I'm at what I'm doing, and I want
to be able to show that to them and to
let them know that it is okay to not always
be right, It's okay to not always be on. I
think we put way too much pressure on ourselves at
(06:28):
times to do that.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
Can I shake the table a little bit? Shake it?
I'm about to shake the table in the shape table
a little bit shake. Do you think do you think
men have that expectation? Absolutely not, Like, like y'all have
no idea how they don't you have it at I
don't think so. Like, you can lose all your hair
and you will still be considered that guy, you know
(06:51):
what I mean? You can gain weight, yes, and no
one's gonna say I'm not gonna date that yeah because
he's gained Yeah, Like y'all are just y'all. If we
put on two pounds, we have officially become the worst
people in the world, and we're overweight and we're obese.
If we lose a single strand of hair, we all
of a sudden have now missed the societal standards of
(07:13):
what beauty looks like. And so if we go out
and have too much to drink and get caught on
social media, then it's, oh, my god, woman, thou aren't loose,
like what in the world, right, And so it's it's
so interesting how And this isn't to play the gender card,
but it is to just demonstrate just how much more
difficult it is at times to balance your personality and
(07:38):
your profession. And I think that's relatable in any case,
Like even when we have to sometimes code switch, right,
like we have to sometimes you know, I can end,
you see what I'm saying, and let's have past, because
you know, I can absolutely have a conversation with my friends,
and there are certain and things that I can say
(08:01):
with my friends that I can't necessarily say at work,
and not because those things are bad, but just because
the perception of it is just so different, right, And
I just I think it's important to put an emphasis
on just how difficult that can be sometimes. But you know,
for both of you and whoever wants to answer can answer.
(08:22):
Are there moments where you're just like, for lack of
better terms, ef it, like I don't care you know
what someone's gonna say, or like you know, f it,
I'm gonna I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna put on
this outfit, I'm gonna wear this week. I'm gonna save
this line because it's just it is who it is.
And if someone else doesn't have the ability to compartmentalize
me personally versus me professionally, like that's.
Speaker 1 (08:42):
On them, yeah, I'll answered, yeah, yeah. But I have
found though that the older I get, the more I
get to a point of the I really don't.
Speaker 2 (08:57):
Care the idea.
Speaker 1 (08:59):
But you know why because I sleep very well at night.
And what I mean by that is I'm genuinely a
really good person. I treat people well, just don't come
in me sideways. And so because of that, yeah, I
just feel like we as a society we just worry
(09:22):
about other people's business too much at times, and we're
not we're not allowed to have our own I can't
have my own thoughts and opinions, like you feel like,
not you personally, but you feel like you should be
able to tell me what my own opinion should be
(09:43):
about something, right, And so instead of going back and
forth with people about whatever it is, I just get
to a point to where I'm like, you know what.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
Whatever you got it, I just chime in on that.
Of course.
Speaker 4 (09:55):
So I mean, obviously you're public facing figures right media
space and the sports space as a Hall of Famer,
how much do you think social media and parasocial relationships
factor into those expectations.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
Oh my god, so much? Like there are so funny
story my husband doesn't like so like he is cool
with social media, but he don't really like social media
at all. Right, Like if you look on his social pages,
it's nothing but like memes, jokes in the Philadelphia Eagles,
Like that's it. That's why you're gonna see. I almost
didn't even know it was him because he changed his
(10:29):
profile picture to Jalen Hurts, and I was like, who
is this man? Or my husband's who is this person?
But he doesn't like social Me on the other hand,
part of it is because of my job that I
have to continually be on social media and have to
continually post. But also because I think social is what
you make it, right. It's a negative place if you
make it and you allow it to be a negative place.
I don't allow it to be a negative space for me.
(10:51):
But with that being said, because I post about, you know, family,
husband things like that. When I'm out and I'm with
my husband, people think they know him, so they're always like,
oh my god, I know you know you're you're you're
a tourists and and you like the Eagles, and how
do you blah blah blah blah, and they just like
kind of start conversations, and granted, he's not like a
rude person, so he will engage in conversation, but when
(11:14):
we're done, he's like, who the hell is that? How
do they know me?
Speaker 4 (11:19):
You know?
Speaker 2 (11:19):
And so I think those parasocial relationships really do speak
a lot to how we interact and how people interact
and have expectations of us because they think they know
who we are and what we're about based on what
we share and what we post on social media. And
I think all of us can say that we're all layered,
right like, where none of us are one dimensional. All
(11:41):
of us have different parts, different pieces. And I even
think about that as it relates to women in the WNBA,
right Like we look at players in the WNBA and
we say, you know, oh, dj A Carrington, she's beautiful,
she has these lashes, she has these hair. But you
remember there was one time last season where there was
a conversation where folks like, oh my god, her nails
are too long, like that's ghetto blah blah blah blah blah, right,
(12:04):
and it's like there's these these secret things that we have.
And truthfully, if you, you know, really got to know
Djna or really got a chance to like follow her
outside of what she does on the court, you'd see
she's one of the kindest people, super silly. Her nails
actually aren't long at all naturally hers not with the
(12:24):
crylic And it's it's one of those things where it's
like you think you know something, you set this expectation,
you set this stereotype, and it's completely different from who
you really are. And social plays a huge, huge role Inette.
Speaker 5 (12:38):
Yeah, I'll just add a little bit to that.
Speaker 1 (12:40):
I think the one thing when you said social can
be really good or can be really bad, but to me,
it is what you make it. But social media is
the one place though where like it gives people a
place in a space to where they feel relevant, but
also a place where they feel like they can come
(13:03):
for you behind a keyboard or on a cell phone.
And that's that's where I've just gotten to a point
to where one you just take a break, like I
have to mentally just walk away from social media at times,
because people feel like they really know you based off
of what they see on social media. And I think
(13:26):
if you spend your time getting so caught up in
reading all the posts and all the reposts and tweets
and about yourself specifically, like it could play a huge
part in what you feel mentally. And a lot a
lot of people aren't mentally strong enough to deal with
(13:47):
the things that are said about you on social media.
So that's where I've gotten to a point where I'm like,
you know, it's it's my it's my life.
Speaker 4 (13:55):
Yeah. Yeah, I absolutely think that there's levels to having
boundaries in that balance. And for me personally, I mean
this time last year, I spent a lot of.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
Screen time on my phone.
Speaker 3 (14:05):
Breaking news is a very hefty business, y'all.
Speaker 4 (14:08):
Yeah, And so this year I kind of took a
step back because it was mentally taxing to be on
social media, to want to be first and all those things.
Speaker 3 (14:17):
So for me, it was just about taking time.
Speaker 4 (14:20):
Personally for myself and to evaluate, Okay, how am I
going to do this, coming up with a strategy turning
my phone off after a certain hour and be like, yeah,
this can wait until tomorrow. I think that sometimes we
always think that we have to do things instantly, and
sometimes it's okay to just hold something off for the
next day and take that time to yourself.
Speaker 2 (14:41):
Do you remember when we did the We did an
article for Slam. It's exactly what I'm talking about. Yes,
we did an article for Slam magazine and one of
the questions was what is your screen time? And I
never paid attention to my screen time until that particular article,
and a twenty one hours was my screen It said
sixteen hours, And I was like, there're twenty four hours
(15:04):
in a day, so only three and those only three
hours you weren't on your phone was probably when.
Speaker 3 (15:09):
You were sleeping, baking, breaking news y'all.
Speaker 2 (15:13):
Yeah, that was crazy.
Speaker 5 (15:14):
That that can't be healthy.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
It's that's the point, and that's the point. It wasn't
It wasn't. I think that's exactly the point. It's not.
But it's it's so consuming, like especially for you in
that space, like you know, I think about you, and
I think about like whoa how he was the breaking
news guy. Now there's Sham's and you know, Rachel Gallian
and and just there's so much consumption in that space
(15:40):
that again, it becomes difficult to maybe balance who you
are in a personal life and just you know, what
you should be doing. What does Christina enjoy? What does
Cheryl enjoy? What does t enjoy? That doesn't have to
do with you know, basketball or sports or media. But
I just think that, like again, it is relatable to
most people. I mean, there are lawyers who spend so
(16:01):
much time in a courtroom that you know, you're like,
what do you what does your family do? What are
your what happens when you're not there? There are doctors
who spends so much time in the hospital. What do
you do when you're not you know, in an emergency
situation or when you're not at work? Like, well, how
do you? How do you turn that thing off? And
then there's something that you said, Chirl that really stands
out to me when you say some people aren't mentally
(16:21):
strong to deal with that. I'll give you a perfect example.
Last year, I did a show and I did a
show with someone is this girl? Yees? Okay, So I
did a I did a show last year with this
woman anamed Pearl Davis. And if you're familiar with Pearl Davis,
Pearl Davis is a very very strong right wing girl
(16:45):
who has a lot of opinions that I disagree with.
Right But I didn't know I was getting ready to
do this show with Pearl. Okay, I I wasn't aware.
I didn't know what's til I show it up and
I said, oh shit. I was like, oh, oh, that's
a good thing. Don't worry about it. That's a good thing.
Don't don't google her. Please, don't even tear your algorithm
up like that. But the point is I also wasn't
(17:08):
completely familiar with her, but I had just seen a
couple of things and I did a show with her,
and I was very excited about the show. And I
posted a clip for this show on Twitter, and girl,
they ate me up.
Speaker 3 (17:21):
They ate her alive.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
I was like, me, everybody loves me. I posted that
I was doing a show and we posted a clip
of the show and it was me and I was
sitting next to her, And it just so happened to
be the same day that Caitlyn Clark was asked about
Dja Carrington, and I had tweeted that I thought it
was disappointing that Caitlyn didn't take the opportunity initially to
(17:46):
dispel the notion and the rumors and the conversation about
racism and like her fan base, and that same day
I posted my clip of this woman next to me
with Pearl.
Speaker 6 (18:03):
To talk about you got the audacity to talk about
a twenty one year old okay, like Clark, And here
you are sitting on stage with Pearl Davis, And so
in my mind.
Speaker 2 (18:14):
I'm like, oh, but I mean, we have different views,
but I'm pretty sure I could shift the view. They
were like no.
Speaker 4 (18:18):
Bood accountability, then taking accountability.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
Taking it, And I had to then be like, you
know what, after I quit the show, like four days in,
I said, this is four days in, y'all, But I said,
this is a moment where I had to be a
bit vulnerable because they were valid in the things that
they were saying. Now, they didn't all say it the
right way, you know, but it really had to show me,
(18:43):
you know, how mentally tough you can be to take criticism,
because as an analyst, I criticize players all the time.
As an analyst, I have to tell you when you're
not playing well, there may be times that I say
things that people will be like, yeah, see that's a
little harsh. So I had to sit in my moment
and allow those same people who I criticized to be
(19:04):
like tee. That wasn't a smart move, you know, And
it took a little bit of vulnerability because I don't
like seeing myself being talked about like that. But I
had to own that space. So to your point, it
does take a lot of mental toughness to deal with that.
But I have a question to that. Aw shit, Well
it's really a general question.
Speaker 1 (19:21):
Okay, but why can't you sit on the same stage
with someone that doesn't have It doesn't have to be
in particular, but someone who doesn't have the same views
as you and have a conversation Because personally, I feel
like that's how we grow, that's how we change. It
(19:42):
doesn't mean I'm gonna agree with you, but at least
we can sit and have a conversation.
Speaker 2 (19:46):
Yeah, I think to answer that question in a general sense,
I agree with you one hundred percent. I think the
way that we may change and the way that we
impact people are the way that we do developed actual
solutions to some of the things that we discussed is
to have genuine conversations. The keyword in that is genuine.
This was not a genuine scenario. This was a scenario
(20:07):
where the producer was trying to like get clicked, and
so there was no way that anything I said on
that station, I shouldn't have been on that stage. Yeah yeah,
I got that value. Yeah yeah, there was no way
to handle together. Yeah yeah yeah. But but generally speaking, yeah,
that's how you. I got you. Has there been moments
(20:37):
where maybe you felt a little mentally vulnerable on social
media or where you've like, dang, I kind of gotta
eat that, or I gotta take that, or maybe not
because you really you really do it.
Speaker 4 (20:49):
I had to put some people on a summer jam
screen because I am not the person to clap back
at anyone on social media say what you want. I'm
gonna just ignore it, lock you mute, you never see
you again in the algorithm, and I'm all good.
Speaker 2 (21:01):
But you remember.
Speaker 4 (21:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:03):
So there was one.
Speaker 4 (21:04):
Night I was getting ready for bed and my good
friend Tarika was like, girl, into your phone. Someone's chat
leaked and there's messages about you. And long story short,
it was a group of white male reporters in the
women's basketball space. They had a private group chat and
(21:27):
it was filled with racist, misogynistic messages. My name was
thrown in there. They were talking about black media and
journalists in the space, and it was really really bad.
And so I was like, oh, I can just ignore
this like I ignore everything else and when it comes
to my way, or I can confront it based on
and so I have a pretty good following on Twitter
(21:47):
X and I was like, you know what, I'm gonna
put them on the Summer Jam screen because people deserve
to know who these people are and what they really think.
And so I did it. I pressed it. I was like, oh,
you're on the Summer Jam screen now. And this group
of journalists was essentially exposed and I know they were wondering,
(22:08):
how the heck did she.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
Get that text message?
Speaker 4 (22:11):
Well, I'm a newsbreaker in the space I can I
know and see everything. I get everything, one of the
things that I don't break. But so yeah, I put
them on the screen and it really forced that group
of men to be held accountable. And I think that
the w Twitter space it opened their eyes to what
we have to face as women of color in this space.
(22:33):
It was something that kind of put under the rug
because women's sports, you want to advance women's sports had
all costs, but to me. I was like, this is
not okay, and we need to have this really. We
even have an ugly conversation, and it was all over
the news headlines.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
I was getting calls to be interviewed.
Speaker 3 (22:48):
On multiple news stations.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
It was crazy. Even the person who that group was
working for did not initially want to take accountability for
the things that they were saying. His employees were saying
about her. And I've never met any of these people.
Speaker 4 (23:07):
When I'm in the media workroom, they don't say hi
to me, never at any conversation. They've never worked with me,
don't know me from all in the wall, nothing, And
they had so much to say about who they thought
I was, or the privilege that I have or whatever.
I worked fucking hard. I've worked so hard to get
to where I am and I don't take it for granted.
(23:28):
But to those people, they thought that, you know, she's
she's a black woman, she was just given this and
that is not the case to my journey or how
I ended up to where I am. So yeah, I'm
not going to say the name, but yeah, and having
me the company was like, I don't think that I
want to make a statement about this, and he just
did not want to hold his employees accountable until it
(23:50):
hit him publicly, where the whole and sports industry was like, no,
you have to say something, and then he said it,
but it was it didn't feel genuine.
Speaker 2 (23:59):
Myself reached out to him, Cindy Brunson reached out to him.
There were many of us who reached out. Who is
just like, you have to say something. It is not
good to just be silent on this because these are
your employees and they represent you, they represent your brand.
But I think it's just adding to the vulnerability that
we have in wanting to keep our personal life personal
(24:20):
and our professional life professional, because if they could say
things negative like that about you as a professional, imagine
what the group chat would have looked like. And I'm
going to tell you this type of friend I am.
When I got that text, I was like, yeah, I
could leak it. But at the same time, Christina's my friend,
so I'm not going I'm not gonna sit on this text.
(24:40):
I'm gonna send it to her. If she wants to
leak it, let her do it. If she doesn't want to,
that's cool too, because it is about her. But as
another person. Creative journalist in this space and someone who's
very protective of knowing what it takes to be in
this space. I was like, I'm not about to just
sit on this text.
Speaker 4 (24:59):
I think that I was afraid of was falling into
that angry black woman's trope that follows so many of
us in this industry. And I was just like, I'm
not going to say anything. I don't like it is
what it is like if they think that that's up
to them, But at some point, you're to stand up
for yourself no matter what people will think about you.
And so for me, that was my moment of you
(25:19):
have to speak out, you have to.
Speaker 2 (25:20):
Stand up for yourself.
Speaker 4 (25:21):
So absolutely, and I appreciate it because also taught me
that I have a whole community people who have my
back and are very supportive of me and the industry.
I had GMS reach out to me, executives in a
league like, no, like, we really rock with you.
Speaker 2 (25:35):
Do you need anything? I'm here. So it just let
me know that I have a great.
Speaker 4 (25:39):
Community in the women's basketball space and that those people
had to be healthy here.
Speaker 2 (25:42):
Yeah, no, thank god you did. But I will say
this though, sure for you it feels like you are
also sometimes often caught between a rock and a hard place,
because as a former player, you know and understand better
than any of us on a stage what it means
to be on a championship team, what it means to
be in a locker room, what it means to be
an athlete, and building blocks. But then you also share
(26:04):
the commonality of us of now being an analyst and
now being a media personality, and it feels that it
becomes increasingly difficult the more people get itchy Twitter fingers
to maintain your professionalism as an analyst and also stand
up for players when they have been done wrong by fans,
(26:26):
by media, by others. Can you talk about that a
little bit?
Speaker 1 (26:30):
Yeah, I think you know, first of all, being a
former NBA player, like they are allowed to say whatever
they want to say about the game today, the current
players today, and people see that as, oh my goodness,
(26:51):
well if this person whoever, that former player is right,
if they said it, then it must be true.
Speaker 5 (26:56):
It must be right.
Speaker 2 (26:58):
But the other side of.
Speaker 1 (26:59):
That is as a woman, as a former player, it's
almost like we're not entitled to have opinions about the
game and where the game is today or about certain
players and that to me is so mind boggling, because like,
I will sit here today and put my resume up
(27:21):
against any former NBA player. Well, and I'm only saying
that because if you have a right to talk about
the game, then so should I. And for me, it's
never personal, But it's always about wanting the game to
be better, wanting the players to be better, wanting people
to understand where we've come from, where we've been, and
(27:43):
where we're going. So, yeah, there was quite a bit.
And you know, the funny thing is team when you
talk about social media again, people can only go and
pick certain parts of interviews you've done or certain parts
of a podcast clip and that's what they're going to post.
(28:03):
And so then the world goes crazy like, oh, well
she said this, but no, did you listen to the
entire clip or the entire episode to know exactly what
we were talking about. So it does get to a
point at times where it's like like, what.
Speaker 5 (28:20):
What am I really doing? And is this where I
want to be? Is this a space I want to
be in?
Speaker 1 (28:25):
But yeah, because I feel like if anyone has earned
that right to talk about the game and to talk
about the players and to talk about what we're doing
today that I should be.
Speaker 2 (28:38):
Able to do that, Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 5 (28:40):
But there are people though that are like, no, you
don't have that right.
Speaker 4 (28:44):
Let me just tell you, yeah, I will run through
a brick wall for both of you, and I turned
off to play about them right back to media. And
so there's been times in the last year where I
had to hold some of my media friends accountable because
they've written articles about you that were not pleasant or
didn't have the full context of the story. And you know,
I checked them on it, like, hey, like, why are
(29:05):
you writing writing this one piece to create this narrative?
And I think that especially in the w NBA space,
we've seen how that can play out with the Christine
Brennan situation. For those of you who don't know, there's
a US Today columnist, Christine Brennan, and she's writing a
book about Kaitlyn Clark. But also she's been in Indianapolis
this past year covering the fever and Caitlyn Clark and
(29:29):
the whole thing with dj N. Carrington came up with
the ipoke and she just sensationalized.
Speaker 2 (29:34):
The ipoke and it was not an ipope.
Speaker 4 (29:38):
It wasn't it was, but anyway, it's just how media
have been creating these narratives about the black players and
the bigger context of how that.
Speaker 2 (29:52):
Can play out for them. No, absolutely same here, Like
I think the difference between me and Christina it Christina
will like, very politely and very casually and very professionally
say hey, you're out of pocket. So Rika will absolutely
clap back and be like, y'all talking to Because I'm
(30:14):
from Detroit, I'm like, he y'all, what are you talking too?
Has friendships? Those friendships seven mile will come out, You'll
be like Eminem, go down all of it. The whole
thing will come out like it's just which is very different.
And so you know, I say all the time, I
was like, I'm not your everage journalist. Now guys like
(30:34):
I will. But I think sometimes it's necessary because for
that very reason, Like people again take what they think,
they see, what they think they hear, and they will
continue to push that button if you allow them. And
of course there's only so much you can do from
behind a keyboard, right, But what I find hilarious is
that when we are out in public and we are
at different venues, like I remember specifically someone tweeting something
(31:00):
crazy about Sheryl And then we were at an event
for Final four and they were like, can we have
your photo?
Speaker 6 (31:08):
And I was like, ooh, should I pull the tweet tea?
Speaker 1 (31:12):
And I'm the one that I'll be like, but no,
keep that same energy you had on social media. Here's
the biggest one for me though, because a lot of
people they want to use social media and they want
to take whatever and turn it into a black versus
white thing. Yeah, it's not that at all because one
thing that I am always going to do is stand
(31:33):
up for players period. And I remember this past season
when Chicago Sky played Indiana Diamond de Shills, who foul
Caitlin and which it was a foul they call the
foul blah blah blah ah. That so games over and
Diamond's getting all these ugly tweets and messages. So for
(31:53):
those who don't know, like Diamond de Shills was really sick,
like very very she had a tumor. And I remember,
like some of the fans were tweeting like, I hope
the tumor comes back and you die from it next time.
So I responded, right, I responded and said Diamond, like
(32:14):
we're here, We got your back, keep being you, blah
blah blah. Well they thought that I was talking about
the foul because for me at that point, it wasn't
even about basketball, but it's about a person, a human
being in her life. And so then because I said
what I said to her, then they came for me, right, like, oh,
you're just a racist, and you don't I don't respond
(32:35):
to everybody, but there are certain times like when I
have time on that day and this day I had time.
Speaker 2 (32:40):
It's time.
Speaker 5 (32:41):
So I'm more of a Tarika, not a Christina.
Speaker 2 (32:45):
God bless you for being a Christina.
Speaker 1 (32:49):
I just you know, I guess the bottom line for
me is and you see it on the NBA side,
but for me, it's about like these young women and men,
like they work their asses off.
Speaker 5 (33:02):
To get to where they are and doing what they do.
Speaker 1 (33:06):
And how dare you feel like you can just sit
on your computer or your phone and just just go
in and say some of the craziest, dumbest things about
someone that you don't even know.
Speaker 2 (33:18):
Yeah, and you don't even.
Speaker 1 (33:20):
Know what her story is and the journey she's been
through to just to walk again, right, And that's where
I was coming from, Like I know your story. Don't
let all of what these people are saying about you
on social media like take you to a not so
good place, because it's very easy for that to happen.
Speaker 2 (33:38):
Yeah. This it actually reminds me of a conversation that
Christina and I were having yesterday when we were talking
about like getting people an opportunity to know players and
know the game before right now, like right now, women's
sports is like the thing. Yeah, right, Women's basketball is
the thing. Right when you look at viewership numbers, you
could see that NBA view were is actually down this year.
(34:01):
WNBA viewership is up right, and that's and that's a
wonderful Yes, please give a clap for that, because that
is how long did we wait to get to this space.
I'm actually thinking it's really funny that we're shading the
NBA at NBA also, that's hilarious. But is that where
we are? That's where we are. But I say I
(34:23):
bring all that to say, there is an opportunity that
is available for us to be able to educate fans
in New fans right because there's this thing that they
say we're like, we're gaykeeping I'm like, first of all
words meeting things. We're not gaykeeping. We are not hindering
you from buying tickets, we are not hindering you from
using Google. You can do whatever you want to do
in the women's sports space. But there's this thing that
(34:45):
people say, like we're gatekeeping, or that we are not
welcoming to new women's sports fans WNBA fans specifically, and
I don't think that's the case. I am one who
thinks that we are very welcoming to women's basket fans
and we want people to enjoy the game. We also
want you to respect the history. Right, if you've been
(35:06):
an NBA fan for five years, you're not gonna come
out here talking about John Morant is the goat. You're
gonna be like, wait a minute, did you forget like
all the people before you know what I mean, you've
playing Wait the contest? You do forget Vince car existed?
Like what do we do?
Speaker 5 (35:25):
You know what I mean?
Speaker 2 (35:25):
Like, there are things, there are levels. There are levels
there hello, Like there are levels to how we get here.
And I think our issue all the pun intended on that,
by the way, but I think that there are there
are Our issue has just simply been before we got
to where we are in twenty twenty five. There was
a whole slew of people that came from nineteen ninety
(35:48):
seven to this point, and that slew of people have
to be recognized and respected, and those stories aren't being
told enough to wear new Fans have to be open
to wanting to listen and learn those stories, and it
it definitely has a part with coverage. We know coverage
was different than and investment was different than than it
(36:12):
is now. But it's available. Like you can YouTube previous
All Star games. You can YouTube, and you can't google
you know where we started, how we got here. You
cant google that nineteen ninety six Olympic team, you know
what I mean. Like, I was so excited to see
that doc Cheryl that thirty for thirty. It was so
good and I'm just like, this is my childhood in
(36:33):
front of me. Not to make you feel the way,
but I was like, I was like, yeah, I was
actually flexing low key. I was like, hey, y'all, see.
Speaker 3 (36:42):
Cheryl, that's my girl, My girl, you got speed.
Speaker 2 (36:47):
You know what I'm saying. I was like, oh, y'all
see Dawn, I'm about to text my girl. But it's
just like those stories have to be told in order
for folks to understand why we're so pretty detective of
the game and why we will continue to be protective
of this space. It's not one that we're going to
(37:08):
let people enter with false narratives. It's one that we
want you to come and enjoy, but we want you
to come and enjoy with a clear vision of were
and how we got here.
Speaker 1 (37:16):
Yeah, because we we want you to come and be
a part of something we've been building from day one, right,
and to be excited about it and to support the league, right.
Speaker 5 (37:29):
And it's so okay for you to have a favorite player.
Speaker 1 (37:32):
We all do, right, Asia Wilson is my favorite player,
h get away?
Speaker 2 (37:38):
Yeah right.
Speaker 1 (37:39):
But I just because I want to tell this story
real quickly before I have to go. So I went
this morning to do a toast for Asia Wilson, who's
getting her own signature shoe finally, and what I said
to her was yeah, seriously, yes, But what I said
to her was, Sabrina and Escu has a shoe. But
Asia Wilson the first black female in thirty years since
(38:05):
I got my shoes. But you know's what's really interesting
about this moment where we are and it's not just
Asia but Sabrina with a shoe and Asian with a shoe,
and Caitlyn getting a shoe, Like that's a real thing.
Speaker 2 (38:22):
Now.
Speaker 1 (38:23):
Back in the day in nineteen ninety seven, when Nike
gave me my first shoe, people looked at them like,
what in the hell are y'all thinking getting a female.
Speaker 5 (38:32):
Her own shoe.
Speaker 1 (38:33):
No one's gonna buy it, no one's gonna wear it.
But like Nike thought outside the box. And now you
have all these different brands and people right that are like, oh,
women's basketball is the thing. So I was telling Asia
in ninety seven when I signed with Nike, Nike didn't
even have a women's sports marketing division.
Speaker 5 (38:53):
It was just like a here you go, here's the room.
Speaker 2 (38:57):
Do what you gotta do with it.
Speaker 1 (38:58):
And so what really excites me today about where we
are is it's not just the things that the women
are getting on the court. You have all these women
and brands who are saying we see you, we hear you,
we need you. So you have the Angel Reeses, the
Caitlin Clarks, the DJ Carrington's, the Rakia Jackson's, the Asia
(39:20):
like doing things that we only could dream of.
Speaker 5 (39:25):
And my very first.
Speaker 1 (39:28):
Nike contract when I signed in ninety seven was like
one hundred and seventy five thousand dollars wow, which then
I was like, oh my god, I've made it. And
today to see a player like an Asia and a
Kaitlin Clark signing a twenty million dollar contract, yeah, Like,
(39:50):
I don't even know what to say about that, because
I never thought that I would see this day when
we started the w back at ninety seven, where we're
sitting here actually talking about how far the game has
come and these million dollar contracts that female basketball players
are now signing. That's what ninety seven to where we
(40:12):
are today, that's what it was for us. It was
about being able to be in this moment and share
in this moment with everything that women's basketball is experiencing today.
Speaker 2 (40:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (40:23):
And I was gonna say, from a media perspective, I'm
so grateful for iheartwomen's sports sad Back, because even seven
years ago, it was just so unheard of right to
have a network like this exists where you can have
women's sports programming every single day, available shows, available, opportunities
(40:45):
available for people in the media to be able to
amplify the stories of these athletes. And now that the
game is growing and the momentum is you know, picking up,
we have iHeart women's sports. We have just women's sports,
the wnba W Slam, overtime.
Speaker 2 (41:01):
Women's basketball.
Speaker 4 (41:02):
You see people are starting to invest and not see
it as a.
Speaker 3 (41:06):
Charity or I'm supporting women.
Speaker 2 (41:21):
As we get ready to wrap up here, we just
have to take a couple of things away from this
conversation on our podcast. This is what we call leveling off,
where we one want to make sure that when we
leave here and we see our media people, when we
see our athletes, and we see folks who really work
hard in this industry, you just understand like there are
(41:43):
two sides of everyone, right, there's the professional side and
there's the chill side. And this is really just my
disclaimer that if you see me at a party later,
don't be coming around me talking about I see you,
No you blank? That was that was Teresa Fosters. Tea
got a drink in a hand, Let me alone. Okay,
that's that. But also just keep keep an open mind
(42:05):
on inclusivity when it comes to how people receive women
women's sports and that everything that we have to do
is different, right, every every approach to specifically the W
is different. Like, we love to continue to see how
much W players are getting love, even this weekend at
NBA All Star, the activations, the amount of people that
(42:28):
are excited. I mean, we had Tiffany Hayes on the
show yesterday part of the Going and Stay Valkyries. The
league is expanding and so all of these new opportunities
are happening, and we love to see how fans are
embracing these women and embracing this new opportunity for women.
But also understand, even in those things, there are still
(42:50):
some some very small but significant differences in how we
discuss women and how we talk about women. Even something
is incident, you're here, I could be a snack, but
can I not be a snack in my job?
Speaker 3 (43:05):
You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (43:07):
I'm a do you know? Do you guys know who
I am? But yeah, Like it's just it's just there's
a there's a way that we discussed that we talk about.
I mean, even as far as something as being a
mom and being a basketball player, right, Like it's something
that we don't discuss. We don't discuss dads having to
(43:28):
not be home at Christmas or notving to you know,
not be not that they don't do it or don't
have to think about it, but it's just not something
that's discussed. It's normal, right for a woman to have
to be pregnant, play basketball, miss games, have to go
on the back, breastfeed, come back out. You remember Ada Dia.
Speaker 4 (43:43):
Barnes two seasons pregnant, Yes, and made the all start and.
Speaker 2 (43:50):
The playoffs.
Speaker 4 (43:51):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (43:51):
Yes. Kim Calwell just quite literally had a baby and
a week later she was back out there for Tennessee coaching. Like,
these are the kinds of incredible women that we have
in this space, and so we just have to think
about how we cover them and how we celebrate them
differently than we do. But at the end of the day,
I have really enjoyed this conversation with both of you.
(44:13):
I hope that all of you guys take a moment
to pull out your phones and follow levels to this
on all of your podcasting where that's Apple Podcasts, iheartpod
Spotify also in case you missed it, with Christina Williams.
Every week she has incredible guests on to keep you
updated on what you may have missed in the women's
(44:34):
Sports Space and Cheryl, what are you getting ready to
go do? I gotta go. Sorry, my son is in
the G League slam dunk contests, so I gotta go.
I gotta go, y'all. Thanks for being here, Bye Sarah.
Speaker 1 (44:53):
Listen to Levels to This on America's number one podcast network,
iHeart Open your free iHeart app and search Levels to
This with Sheryl Swoops and Tureka Foster Brasbee and start listening.
Levels to This is an iHeart women's sports production in
partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. You can find
us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you
get your podcasts.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Good morning or good afternoon. I don't know what time
it is. I am still on East Coast time, so
in my head it's afternoon, but it could very well
be morning.
Speaker 3 (00:22):
But we're here.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Give a round, a boss for yourself. Thank you for here,
Thank you for being here. I am Tureka Foster Brasby,
host of the Levels to This podcast, and I am excited.
Speaker 3 (00:34):
To have.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Because I was getting ready to say it and I said,
oh no, she wants to introduce herself.
Speaker 4 (00:44):
I'm Christina Williams. I'm a host of In case you
miss It with Christina Williams.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
Yes, yes, So.
Speaker 5 (00:51):
I'm not even gonna let you look at me because
I'm getting the eyes.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
And I am Cheryl Swoops, I co host Levels to
This with the one and only Terrika cost to Brass.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
The time champion, the three time Olympia. Don't play on
her name, y'all.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
DoD you know who she is?
Speaker 6 (01:10):
Do you know who?
Speaker 2 (01:12):
We're very excited to be here today at NBA All
Star We are looking for a good day of fun
and a good day of excitement for the fans. But
you know what, I'll be the first to tell you
guys that sometimes it is incredibly difficult to be in
these spaces because you have moments where people recognize you.
(01:34):
They recognize you from the podcast, they recognize you from
the different things that you do. I know you guys
have people who recognize you all the time. And there
are moments where you're like, you know what, I just
kind of want to chill a little bit, right, Like
I want to have a drink, I want to kick back,
put my feet up, dance a little bit, shake a
little something something. And then there are times where it's
like you feel like maybe you can't do that because
(01:55):
you don't want people who see you or envision you
in a certain way to then look at you differently
or have things to say because they only see you
a certain way and they don't give you an opportunity
to kind of be yourself and enjoy yourself. And so
today we're kind of going to talk a little bit
about what it means to balance being who you are
(02:16):
and what you do, and how those two things are
completely separate. And Christina, I'm going to start with you
because we had a moment recently where we were like, Hey,
we're gonna go out, We're gonna have fun, but then
there was just a little bit of reservation. And I
think one thing, one thing that reminds me of that
(02:39):
is even like the women who we cover in the WNBA,
and how there are moments where we see them on
the court, we see what they do, we see how
they ball, and then we have to remind ourselves, and
maybe not us, but like people have to remind themselves
like what you are and what you do on the
court is not necessarily what you are and who you
(03:00):
are off the court in your personal life and your
personal endeavors. And so I'll start with you and go
around a shurel about what it means to try to
find a balance. We're gonna go there. We are absolutely
going there. I love that.
Speaker 4 (03:15):
Yeah, last night was a really real experience for me
because I feel like I'm still very new in this space,
although I've been in it for about seven eight years,
and so a lot a lot of me wants to
protect who I am, that public facing image versus my
private life and so I did. I did have reservations
about going out last night and people seeing me outside
(03:39):
of work, the work environment, and I guess it's something
you're laughing serial but it's for real, it's real. But no,
it's just something that I'm learning to balance. I'm not
there yet. I'm not gonna lie.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
I'm not there yet.
Speaker 4 (03:55):
You're just still learning learning how to navigate it, I guess.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
And surel for you, you having literally so much of
your life public right with being a superstar athlete, with
literally somebody can pick up Google and feel like they
can find everything about you. You know, how do you,
in your own way try to find a balance of
you being Churl the basketball player, the Hall of Famer,
(04:20):
and then you just being.
Speaker 1 (04:21):
Cheryl from Texas, from West Texas. I, first of all,
I think it's hard because I think if you ask
even people in the room, is it fair to say
that what you do at work, in your workplace, on
the court or whatever, you have to be that same
(04:44):
person outside of work. Personally, I don't think it's fair
because what I do outside of my job should be able.
I should be able to to be me. And I
think one of the biggest issues with that though, when
(05:04):
people are trying to portray you as being like, oh
my gosh, he or she they're like on all the
time and they're great and they're this and that. Like,
I think you give a false sense to little kids
growing up of everything's perfect, everything's great.
Speaker 5 (05:21):
Because it's not. Do we always make the right choices?
Speaker 4 (05:24):
No?
Speaker 1 (05:25):
Do we always make the right decision No, So I
think it's unfair to have those expectations. But for myself personally,
like it or not fair or unfair, I always know
that there's somebody somewhere watching me just to see am
I going to f up? So they can be able
(05:45):
to go and say, you see, she did mess up.
And I'll be the first to say, yeah, I do
make mistakes. But I try to be very cognizant of
my surroundings, where I'm at, what I'm doing, because I
know people are always going to even though that's not
our place to do that. But I always want to
have that not a perfect image, but I always want
(06:06):
to be that person where when especially little girls, when
they look at me, they can say, you know what, like,
I'm real. I'm just gonna be a real person regardless
of where I'm at what I'm doing, and I want
to be able to show that to them and to
let them know that it is okay to not always
be right, It's okay to not always be on. I
think we put way too much pressure on ourselves at
(06:28):
times to do that.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
Can I shake the table a little bit? Shake it?
I'm about to shake the table in the shape table
a little bit shake. Do you think do you think
men have that expectation? Absolutely not, Like, like y'all have
no idea how they don't you have it at I
don't think so. Like, you can lose all your hair
and you will still be considered that guy, you know
(06:51):
what I mean? You can gain weight, yes, and no
one's gonna say I'm not gonna date that yeah because
he's gained Yeah, Like y'all are just y'all. If we
put on two pounds, we have officially become the worst
people in the world, and we're overweight and we're obese.
If we lose a single strand of hair, we all
of a sudden have now missed the societal standards of
(07:13):
what beauty looks like. And so if we go out
and have too much to drink and get caught on
social media, then it's, oh, my god, woman, thou aren't loose,
like what in the world, right, And so it's it's
so interesting how And this isn't to play the gender card,
but it is to just demonstrate just how much more
difficult it is at times to balance your personality and
(07:38):
your profession. And I think that's relatable in any case,
Like even when we have to sometimes code switch, right,
like we have to sometimes you know, I can end,
you see what I'm saying, and let's have past, because
you know, I can absolutely have a conversation with my friends,
and there are certain and things that I can say
(08:01):
with my friends that I can't necessarily say at work,
and not because those things are bad, but just because
the perception of it is just so different, right, And
I just I think it's important to put an emphasis
on just how difficult that can be sometimes. But you know,
for both of you and whoever wants to answer can answer.
(08:22):
Are there moments where you're just like, for lack of
better terms, ef it, like I don't care you know
what someone's gonna say, or like you know, f it,
I'm gonna I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna put on
this outfit, I'm gonna wear this week. I'm gonna save
this line because it's just it is who it is.
And if someone else doesn't have the ability to compartmentalize
me personally versus me professionally, like that's.
Speaker 1 (08:42):
On them, yeah, I'll answered, yeah, yeah. But I have
found though that the older I get, the more I
get to a point of the I really don't.
Speaker 2 (08:57):
Care the idea.
Speaker 1 (08:59):
But you know why because I sleep very well at night.
And what I mean by that is I'm genuinely a
really good person. I treat people well, just don't come
in me sideways. And so because of that, yeah, I
just feel like we as a society we just worry
(09:22):
about other people's business too much at times, and we're
not we're not allowed to have our own I can't
have my own thoughts and opinions, like you feel like,
not you personally, but you feel like you should be
able to tell me what my own opinion should be
(09:43):
about something, right, And so instead of going back and
forth with people about whatever it is, I just get
to a point to where I'm like, you know what.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
Whatever you got it, I just chime in on that.
Of course.
Speaker 4 (09:55):
So I mean, obviously you're public facing figures right media
space and the sports space as a Hall of Famer,
how much do you think social media and parasocial relationships
factor into those expectations.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
Oh my god, so much? Like there are so funny
story my husband doesn't like so like he is cool
with social media, but he don't really like social media
at all. Right, Like if you look on his social pages,
it's nothing but like memes, jokes in the Philadelphia Eagles,
Like that's it. That's why you're gonna see. I almost
didn't even know it was him because he changed his
(10:29):
profile picture to Jalen Hurts, and I was like, who
is this man? Or my husband's who is this person?
But he doesn't like social Me on the other hand,
part of it is because of my job that I
have to continually be on social media and have to
continually post. But also because I think social is what
you make it, right. It's a negative place if you
make it and you allow it to be a negative place.
I don't allow it to be a negative space for me.
(10:51):
But with that being said, because I post about, you know, family,
husband things like that. When I'm out and I'm with
my husband, people think they know him, so they're always like,
oh my god, I know you know you're you're you're
a tourists and and you like the Eagles, and how
do you blah blah blah blah, and they just like
kind of start conversations, and granted, he's not like a
rude person, so he will engage in conversation, but when
(11:14):
we're done, he's like, who the hell is that? How
do they know me?
Speaker 4 (11:19):
You know?
Speaker 2 (11:19):
And so I think those parasocial relationships really do speak
a lot to how we interact and how people interact
and have expectations of us because they think they know
who we are and what we're about based on what
we share and what we post on social media. And
I think all of us can say that we're all layered,
right like, where none of us are one dimensional. All
(11:41):
of us have different parts, different pieces. And I even
think about that as it relates to women in the WNBA,
right Like we look at players in the WNBA and
we say, you know, oh, dj A Carrington, she's beautiful,
she has these lashes, she has these hair. But you
remember there was one time last season where there was
a conversation where folks like, oh my god, her nails
are too long, like that's ghetto blah blah blah blah blah, right,
(12:04):
and it's like there's these these secret things that we have.
And truthfully, if you, you know, really got to know
Djna or really got a chance to like follow her
outside of what she does on the court, you'd see
she's one of the kindest people, super silly. Her nails
actually aren't long at all naturally hers not with the
(12:24):
crylic And it's it's one of those things where it's
like you think you know something, you set this expectation,
you set this stereotype, and it's completely different from who
you really are. And social plays a huge, huge role Inette.
Speaker 5 (12:38):
Yeah, I'll just add a little bit to that.
Speaker 1 (12:40):
I think the one thing when you said social can
be really good or can be really bad, but to me,
it is what you make it. But social media is
the one place though where like it gives people a
place in a space to where they feel relevant, but
also a place where they feel like they can come
(13:03):
for you behind a keyboard or on a cell phone.
And that's that's where I've just gotten to a point
to where one you just take a break, like I
have to mentally just walk away from social media at times,
because people feel like they really know you based off
of what they see on social media. And I think
(13:26):
if you spend your time getting so caught up in
reading all the posts and all the reposts and tweets
and about yourself specifically, like it could play a huge
part in what you feel mentally. And a lot a
lot of people aren't mentally strong enough to deal with
(13:47):
the things that are said about you on social media.
So that's where I've gotten to a point where I'm like,
you know, it's it's my it's my life.
Speaker 4 (13:55):
Yeah. Yeah, I absolutely think that there's levels to having
boundaries in that balance. And for me personally, I mean
this time last year, I spent a lot of.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
Screen time on my phone.
Speaker 3 (14:05):
Breaking news is a very hefty business, y'all.
Speaker 4 (14:08):
Yeah, And so this year I kind of took a
step back because it was mentally taxing to be on
social media, to want to be first and all those things.
Speaker 3 (14:17):
So for me, it was just about taking time.
Speaker 4 (14:20):
Personally for myself and to evaluate, Okay, how am I
going to do this, coming up with a strategy turning
my phone off after a certain hour and be like, yeah,
this can wait until tomorrow. I think that sometimes we
always think that we have to do things instantly, and
sometimes it's okay to just hold something off for the
next day and take that time to yourself.
Speaker 2 (14:41):
Do you remember when we did the We did an
article for Slam. It's exactly what I'm talking about. Yes,
we did an article for Slam magazine and one of
the questions was what is your screen time? And I
never paid attention to my screen time until that particular article,
and a twenty one hours was my screen It said
sixteen hours, And I was like, there're twenty four hours
(15:04):
in a day, so only three and those only three
hours you weren't on your phone was probably when.
Speaker 3 (15:09):
You were sleeping, baking, breaking news y'all.
Speaker 2 (15:13):
Yeah, that was crazy.
Speaker 5 (15:14):
That that can't be healthy.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
It's that's the point, and that's the point. It wasn't
It wasn't. I think that's exactly the point. It's not.
But it's it's so consuming, like especially for you in
that space, like you know, I think about you, and
I think about like whoa how he was the breaking
news guy. Now there's Sham's and you know, Rachel Gallian
and and just there's so much consumption in that space
(15:40):
that again, it becomes difficult to maybe balance who you
are in a personal life and just you know, what
you should be doing. What does Christina enjoy? What does
Cheryl enjoy? What does t enjoy? That doesn't have to
do with you know, basketball or sports or media. But
I just think that, like again, it is relatable to
most people. I mean, there are lawyers who spend so
(16:01):
much time in a courtroom that you know, you're like,
what do you what does your family do? What are
your what happens when you're not there? There are doctors
who spends so much time in the hospital. What do
you do when you're not you know, in an emergency
situation or when you're not at work? Like, well, how
do you? How do you turn that thing off? And
then there's something that you said, Chirl that really stands
out to me when you say some people aren't mentally
(16:21):
strong to deal with that. I'll give you a perfect example.
Last year, I did a show and I did a
show with someone is this girl? Yees? Okay, So I
did a I did a show last year with this
woman anamed Pearl Davis. And if you're familiar with Pearl Davis,
Pearl Davis is a very very strong right wing girl
(16:45):
who has a lot of opinions that I disagree with.
Right But I didn't know I was getting ready to
do this show with Pearl. Okay, I I wasn't aware.
I didn't know what's til I show it up and
I said, oh shit. I was like, oh, oh, that's
a good thing. Don't worry about it. That's a good thing.
Don't don't google her. Please, don't even tear your algorithm
up like that. But the point is I also wasn't
(17:08):
completely familiar with her, but I had just seen a
couple of things and I did a show with her,
and I was very excited about the show. And I
posted a clip for this show on Twitter, and girl,
they ate me up.
Speaker 3 (17:21):
They ate her alive.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
I was like, me, everybody loves me. I posted that
I was doing a show and we posted a clip
of the show and it was me and I was
sitting next to her, And it just so happened to
be the same day that Caitlyn Clark was asked about
Dja Carrington, and I had tweeted that I thought it
was disappointing that Caitlyn didn't take the opportunity initially to
(17:46):
dispel the notion and the rumors and the conversation about
racism and like her fan base, and that same day
I posted my clip of this woman next to me
with Pearl.
Speaker 6 (18:03):
To talk about you got the audacity to talk about
a twenty one year old okay, like Clark, And here
you are sitting on stage with Pearl Davis, And so
in my mind.
Speaker 2 (18:14):
I'm like, oh, but I mean, we have different views,
but I'm pretty sure I could shift the view. They
were like no.
Speaker 4 (18:18):
Bood accountability, then taking accountability.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
Taking it, And I had to then be like, you
know what, after I quit the show, like four days in,
I said, this is four days in, y'all, But I said,
this is a moment where I had to be a
bit vulnerable because they were valid in the things that
they were saying. Now, they didn't all say it the
right way, you know, but it really had to show me,
(18:43):
you know, how mentally tough you can be to take criticism,
because as an analyst, I criticize players all the time.
As an analyst, I have to tell you when you're
not playing well, there may be times that I say
things that people will be like, yeah, see that's a
little harsh. So I had to sit in my moment
and allow those same people who I criticized to be
(19:04):
like tee. That wasn't a smart move, you know, And
it took a little bit of vulnerability because I don't
like seeing myself being talked about like that. But I
had to own that space. So to your point, it
does take a lot of mental toughness to deal with that.
But I have a question to that. Aw shit, Well
it's really a general question.
Speaker 1 (19:21):
Okay, but why can't you sit on the same stage
with someone that doesn't have It doesn't have to be
in particular, but someone who doesn't have the same views
as you and have a conversation Because personally, I feel
like that's how we grow, that's how we change. It
(19:42):
doesn't mean I'm gonna agree with you, but at least
we can sit and have a conversation.
Speaker 2 (19:46):
Yeah, I think to answer that question in a general sense,
I agree with you one hundred percent. I think the
way that we may change and the way that we
impact people are the way that we do developed actual
solutions to some of the things that we discussed is
to have genuine conversations. The keyword in that is genuine.
This was not a genuine scenario. This was a scenario
(20:07):
where the producer was trying to like get clicked, and
so there was no way that anything I said on
that station, I shouldn't have been on that stage. Yeah yeah,
I got that value. Yeah yeah, there was no way
to handle together. Yeah yeah yeah. But but generally speaking, yeah,
that's how you. I got you. Has there been moments
(20:37):
where maybe you felt a little mentally vulnerable on social
media or where you've like, dang, I kind of gotta
eat that, or I gotta take that, or maybe not
because you really you really do it.
Speaker 4 (20:49):
I had to put some people on a summer jam
screen because I am not the person to clap back
at anyone on social media say what you want. I'm
gonna just ignore it, lock you mute, you never see
you again in the algorithm, and I'm all good.
Speaker 2 (21:01):
But you remember.
Speaker 4 (21:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:03):
So there was one.
Speaker 4 (21:04):
Night I was getting ready for bed and my good
friend Tarika was like, girl, into your phone. Someone's chat
leaked and there's messages about you. And long story short,
it was a group of white male reporters in the
women's basketball space. They had a private group chat and
(21:27):
it was filled with racist, misogynistic messages. My name was
thrown in there. They were talking about black media and
journalists in the space, and it was really really bad.
And so I was like, oh, I can just ignore
this like I ignore everything else and when it comes
to my way, or I can confront it based on
and so I have a pretty good following on Twitter
(21:47):
X and I was like, you know what, I'm gonna
put them on the Summer Jam screen because people deserve
to know who these people are and what they really think.
And so I did it. I pressed it. I was like, oh,
you're on the Summer Jam screen now. And this group
of journalists was essentially exposed and I know they were wondering,
(22:08):
how the heck did she.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
Get that text message?
Speaker 4 (22:11):
Well, I'm a newsbreaker in the space I can I
know and see everything. I get everything, one of the
things that I don't break. But so yeah, I put
them on the screen and it really forced that group
of men to be held accountable. And I think that
the w Twitter space it opened their eyes to what
we have to face as women of color in this space.
(22:33):
It was something that kind of put under the rug
because women's sports, you want to advance women's sports had
all costs, but to me. I was like, this is
not okay, and we need to have this really. We
even have an ugly conversation, and it was all over
the news headlines.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
I was getting calls to be interviewed.
Speaker 3 (22:48):
On multiple news stations.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
It was crazy. Even the person who that group was
working for did not initially want to take accountability for
the things that they were saying. His employees were saying
about her. And I've never met any of these people.
Speaker 4 (23:07):
When I'm in the media workroom, they don't say hi
to me, never at any conversation. They've never worked with me,
don't know me from all in the wall, nothing, And
they had so much to say about who they thought
I was, or the privilege that I have or whatever.
I worked fucking hard. I've worked so hard to get
to where I am and I don't take it for granted.
(23:28):
But to those people, they thought that, you know, she's
she's a black woman, she was just given this and
that is not the case to my journey or how
I ended up to where I am. So yeah, I'm
not going to say the name, but yeah, and having
me the company was like, I don't think that I
want to make a statement about this, and he just
did not want to hold his employees accountable until it
(23:50):
hit him publicly, where the whole and sports industry was like, no,
you have to say something, and then he said it,
but it was it didn't feel genuine.
Speaker 2 (23:59):
Myself reached out to him, Cindy Brunson reached out to him.
There were many of us who reached out. Who is
just like, you have to say something. It is not
good to just be silent on this because these are
your employees and they represent you, they represent your brand.
But I think it's just adding to the vulnerability that
we have in wanting to keep our personal life personal
(24:20):
and our professional life professional, because if they could say
things negative like that about you as a professional, imagine
what the group chat would have looked like. And I'm
going to tell you this type of friend I am.
When I got that text, I was like, yeah, I
could leak it. But at the same time, Christina's my friend,
so I'm not going I'm not gonna sit on this text.
(24:40):
I'm gonna send it to her. If she wants to
leak it, let her do it. If she doesn't want to,
that's cool too, because it is about her. But as
another person. Creative journalist in this space and someone who's
very protective of knowing what it takes to be in
this space. I was like, I'm not about to just
sit on this text.
Speaker 4 (24:59):
I think that I was afraid of was falling into
that angry black woman's trope that follows so many of
us in this industry. And I was just like, I'm
not going to say anything. I don't like it is
what it is like if they think that that's up
to them, But at some point, you're to stand up
for yourself no matter what people will think about you.
And so for me, that was my moment of you
(25:19):
have to speak out, you have to.
Speaker 2 (25:20):
Stand up for yourself.
Speaker 4 (25:21):
So absolutely, and I appreciate it because also taught me
that I have a whole community people who have my
back and are very supportive of me and the industry.
I had GMS reach out to me, executives in a
league like, no, like, we really rock with you.
Speaker 2 (25:35):
Do you need anything? I'm here. So it just let
me know that I have a great.
Speaker 4 (25:39):
Community in the women's basketball space and that those people
had to be healthy here.
Speaker 2 (25:42):
Yeah, no, thank god you did. But I will say
this though, sure for you it feels like you are
also sometimes often caught between a rock and a hard place,
because as a former player, you know and understand better
than any of us on a stage what it means
to be on a championship team, what it means to
be in a locker room, what it means to be
an athlete, and building blocks. But then you also share
(26:04):
the commonality of us of now being an analyst and
now being a media personality, and it feels that it
becomes increasingly difficult the more people get itchy Twitter fingers
to maintain your professionalism as an analyst and also stand
up for players when they have been done wrong by fans,
(26:26):
by media, by others. Can you talk about that a
little bit?
Speaker 1 (26:30):
Yeah, I think you know, first of all, being a
former NBA player, like they are allowed to say whatever
they want to say about the game today, the current
players today, and people see that as, oh my goodness,
(26:51):
well if this person whoever, that former player is right,
if they said it, then it must be true.
Speaker 5 (26:56):
It must be right.
Speaker 2 (26:58):
But the other side of.
Speaker 1 (26:59):
That is as a woman, as a former player, it's
almost like we're not entitled to have opinions about the
game and where the game is today or about certain
players and that to me is so mind boggling, because like,
I will sit here today and put my resume up
(27:21):
against any former NBA player. Well, and I'm only saying
that because if you have a right to talk about
the game, then so should I. And for me, it's
never personal, But it's always about wanting the game to
be better, wanting the players to be better, wanting people
to understand where we've come from, where we've been, and
(27:43):
where we're going. So, yeah, there was quite a bit.
And you know, the funny thing is team when you
talk about social media again, people can only go and
pick certain parts of interviews you've done or certain parts
of a podcast clip and that's what they're going to post.
(28:03):
And so then the world goes crazy like, oh, well
she said this, but no, did you listen to the
entire clip or the entire episode to know exactly what
we were talking about. So it does get to a
point at times where it's like like, what.
Speaker 5 (28:20):
What am I really doing? And is this where I
want to be? Is this a space I want to
be in?
Speaker 1 (28:25):
But yeah, because I feel like if anyone has earned
that right to talk about the game and to talk
about the players and to talk about what we're doing
today that I should be.
Speaker 2 (28:38):
Able to do that, Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 5 (28:40):
But there are people though that are like, no, you
don't have that right.
Speaker 4 (28:44):
Let me just tell you, yeah, I will run through
a brick wall for both of you, and I turned
off to play about them right back to media. And
so there's been times in the last year where I
had to hold some of my media friends accountable because
they've written articles about you that were not pleasant or
didn't have the full context of the story. And you know,
I checked them on it, like, hey, like, why are
(29:05):
you writing writing this one piece to create this narrative?
And I think that especially in the w NBA space,
we've seen how that can play out with the Christine
Brennan situation. For those of you who don't know, there's
a US Today columnist, Christine Brennan, and she's writing a
book about Kaitlyn Clark. But also she's been in Indianapolis
this past year covering the fever and Caitlyn Clark and
(29:29):
the whole thing with dj N. Carrington came up with
the ipoke and she just sensationalized.
Speaker 2 (29:34):
The ipoke and it was not an ipope.
Speaker 4 (29:38):
It wasn't it was, but anyway, it's just how media
have been creating these narratives about the black players and
the bigger context of how that.
Speaker 2 (29:52):
Can play out for them. No, absolutely same here, Like
I think the difference between me and Christina it Christina
will like, very politely and very casually and very professionally
say hey, you're out of pocket. So Rika will absolutely
clap back and be like, y'all talking to Because I'm
(30:14):
from Detroit, I'm like, he y'all, what are you talking too?
Has friendships? Those friendships seven mile will come out, You'll
be like Eminem, go down all of it. The whole
thing will come out like it's just which is very different.
And so you know, I say all the time, I
was like, I'm not your everage journalist. Now guys like
(30:34):
I will. But I think sometimes it's necessary because for
that very reason, Like people again take what they think,
they see, what they think they hear, and they will
continue to push that button if you allow them. And
of course there's only so much you can do from
behind a keyboard, right, But what I find hilarious is
that when we are out in public and we are
at different venues, like I remember specifically someone tweeting something
(31:00):
crazy about Sheryl And then we were at an event
for Final four and they were like, can we have
your photo?
Speaker 6 (31:08):
And I was like, ooh, should I pull the tweet tea?
Speaker 1 (31:12):
And I'm the one that I'll be like, but no,
keep that same energy you had on social media. Here's
the biggest one for me though, because a lot of
people they want to use social media and they want
to take whatever and turn it into a black versus
white thing. Yeah, it's not that at all because one
thing that I am always going to do is stand
(31:33):
up for players period. And I remember this past season
when Chicago Sky played Indiana Diamond de Shills, who foul
Caitlin and which it was a foul they call the
foul blah blah blah ah. That so games over and
Diamond's getting all these ugly tweets and messages. So for
(31:53):
those who don't know, like Diamond de Shills was really sick,
like very very she had a tumor. And I remember,
like some of the fans were tweeting like, I hope
the tumor comes back and you die from it next time.
So I responded, right, I responded and said Diamond, like
(32:14):
we're here, We got your back, keep being you, blah
blah blah. Well they thought that I was talking about
the foul because for me at that point, it wasn't
even about basketball, but it's about a person, a human
being in her life. And so then because I said
what I said to her, then they came for me, right, like, oh,
you're just a racist, and you don't I don't respond
(32:35):
to everybody, but there are certain times like when I
have time on that day and this day I had time.
Speaker 2 (32:40):
It's time.
Speaker 5 (32:41):
So I'm more of a Tarika, not a Christina.
Speaker 2 (32:45):
God bless you for being a Christina.
Speaker 1 (32:49):
I just you know, I guess the bottom line for
me is and you see it on the NBA side,
but for me, it's about like these young women and men,
like they work their asses off.
Speaker 5 (33:02):
To get to where they are and doing what they do.
Speaker 1 (33:06):
And how dare you feel like you can just sit
on your computer or your phone and just just go
in and say some of the craziest, dumbest things about
someone that you don't even know.
Speaker 2 (33:18):
Yeah, and you don't even.
Speaker 1 (33:20):
Know what her story is and the journey she's been
through to just to walk again, right, And that's where
I was coming from, Like I know your story. Don't
let all of what these people are saying about you
on social media like take you to a not so
good place, because it's very easy for that to happen.
Speaker 2 (33:38):
Yeah. This it actually reminds me of a conversation that
Christina and I were having yesterday when we were talking
about like getting people an opportunity to know players and
know the game before right now, like right now, women's
sports is like the thing. Yeah, right, Women's basketball is
the thing. Right when you look at viewership numbers, you
could see that NBA view were is actually down this year.
(34:01):
WNBA viewership is up right, and that's and that's a
wonderful Yes, please give a clap for that, because that
is how long did we wait to get to this space.
I'm actually thinking it's really funny that we're shading the
NBA at NBA also, that's hilarious. But is that where
we are? That's where we are. But I say I
(34:23):
bring all that to say, there is an opportunity that
is available for us to be able to educate fans
in New fans right because there's this thing that they
say we're like, we're gaykeeping I'm like, first of all
words meeting things. We're not gaykeeping. We are not hindering
you from buying tickets, we are not hindering you from
using Google. You can do whatever you want to do
in the women's sports space. But there's this thing that
(34:45):
people say, like we're gatekeeping, or that we are not
welcoming to new women's sports fans WNBA fans specifically, and
I don't think that's the case. I am one who
thinks that we are very welcoming to women's basket fans
and we want people to enjoy the game. We also
want you to respect the history. Right, if you've been
(35:06):
an NBA fan for five years, you're not gonna come
out here talking about John Morant is the goat. You're
gonna be like, wait a minute, did you forget like
all the people before you know what I mean, you've
playing Wait the contest? You do forget Vince car existed?
Like what do we do?
Speaker 5 (35:25):
You know what I mean?
Speaker 2 (35:25):
Like, there are things, there are levels. There are levels
there hello, Like there are levels to how we get here.
And I think our issue all the pun intended on that,
by the way, but I think that there are there
are Our issue has just simply been before we got
to where we are in twenty twenty five. There was
a whole slew of people that came from nineteen ninety
(35:48):
seven to this point, and that slew of people have
to be recognized and respected, and those stories aren't being
told enough to wear new Fans have to be open
to wanting to listen and learn those stories, and it
it definitely has a part with coverage. We know coverage
was different than and investment was different than than it
(36:12):
is now. But it's available. Like you can YouTube previous
All Star games. You can YouTube, and you can't google
you know where we started, how we got here. You
cant google that nineteen ninety six Olympic team, you know
what I mean. Like, I was so excited to see
that doc Cheryl that thirty for thirty. It was so
good and I'm just like, this is my childhood in
(36:33):
front of me. Not to make you feel the way,
but I was like, I was like, yeah, I was
actually flexing low key. I was like, hey, y'all, see.
Speaker 3 (36:42):
Cheryl, that's my girl, My girl, you got speed.
Speaker 2 (36:47):
You know what I'm saying. I was like, oh, y'all
see Dawn, I'm about to text my girl. But it's
just like those stories have to be told in order
for folks to understand why we're so pretty detective of
the game and why we will continue to be protective
of this space. It's not one that we're going to
(37:08):
let people enter with false narratives. It's one that we
want you to come and enjoy, but we want you
to come and enjoy with a clear vision of were
and how we got here.
Speaker 1 (37:16):
Yeah, because we we want you to come and be
a part of something we've been building from day one, right,
and to be excited about it and to support the league, right.
Speaker 5 (37:29):
And it's so okay for you to have a favorite player.
Speaker 1 (37:32):
We all do, right, Asia Wilson is my favorite player,
h get away?
Speaker 2 (37:38):
Yeah right.
Speaker 1 (37:39):
But I just because I want to tell this story
real quickly before I have to go. So I went
this morning to do a toast for Asia Wilson, who's
getting her own signature shoe finally, and what I said
to her was yeah, seriously, yes, But what I said
to her was, Sabrina and Escu has a shoe. But
Asia Wilson the first black female in thirty years since
(38:05):
I got my shoes. But you know's what's really interesting
about this moment where we are and it's not just
Asia but Sabrina with a shoe and Asian with a shoe,
and Caitlyn getting a shoe, Like that's a real thing.
Speaker 2 (38:22):
Now.
Speaker 1 (38:23):
Back in the day in nineteen ninety seven, when Nike
gave me my first shoe, people looked at them like,
what in the hell are y'all thinking getting a female.
Speaker 5 (38:32):
Her own shoe.
Speaker 1 (38:33):
No one's gonna buy it, no one's gonna wear it.
But like Nike thought outside the box. And now you
have all these different brands and people right that are like, oh,
women's basketball is the thing. So I was telling Asia
in ninety seven when I signed with Nike, Nike didn't
even have a women's sports marketing division.
Speaker 5 (38:53):
It was just like a here you go, here's the room.
Speaker 2 (38:57):
Do what you gotta do with it.
Speaker 1 (38:58):
And so what really excites me today about where we
are is it's not just the things that the women
are getting on the court. You have all these women
and brands who are saying we see you, we hear you,
we need you. So you have the Angel Reeses, the
Caitlin Clarks, the DJ Carrington's, the Rakia Jackson's, the Asia
(39:20):
like doing things that we only could dream of.
Speaker 5 (39:25):
And my very first.
Speaker 1 (39:28):
Nike contract when I signed in ninety seven was like
one hundred and seventy five thousand dollars wow, which then
I was like, oh my god, I've made it. And
today to see a player like an Asia and a
Kaitlin Clark signing a twenty million dollar contract, yeah, Like,
(39:50):
I don't even know what to say about that, because
I never thought that I would see this day when
we started the w back at ninety seven, where we're
sitting here actually talking about how far the game has
come and these million dollar contracts that female basketball players
are now signing. That's what ninety seven to where we
(40:12):
are today, that's what it was for us. It was
about being able to be in this moment and share
in this moment with everything that women's basketball is experiencing today.
Speaker 2 (40:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (40:23):
And I was gonna say, from a media perspective, I'm
so grateful for iheartwomen's sports sad Back, because even seven
years ago, it was just so unheard of right to
have a network like this exists where you can have
women's sports programming every single day, available shows, available, opportunities
(40:45):
available for people in the media to be able to
amplify the stories of these athletes. And now that the
game is growing and the momentum is you know, picking up,
we have iHeart women's sports. We have just women's sports,
the wnba W Slam, overtime.
Speaker 2 (41:01):
Women's basketball.
Speaker 4 (41:02):
You see people are starting to invest and not see
it as a.
Speaker 3 (41:06):
Charity or I'm supporting women.
Speaker 2 (41:21):
As we get ready to wrap up here, we just
have to take a couple of things away from this
conversation on our podcast. This is what we call leveling off,
where we one want to make sure that when we
leave here and we see our media people, when we
see our athletes, and we see folks who really work
hard in this industry, you just understand like there are
(41:43):
two sides of everyone, right, there's the professional side and
there's the chill side. And this is really just my
disclaimer that if you see me at a party later,
don't be coming around me talking about I see you,
No you blank? That was that was Teresa Fosters. Tea
got a drink in a hand, Let me alone. Okay,
that's that. But also just keep keep an open mind
(42:05):
on inclusivity when it comes to how people receive women
women's sports and that everything that we have to do
is different, right, every every approach to specifically the W
is different. Like, we love to continue to see how
much W players are getting love, even this weekend at
NBA All Star, the activations, the amount of people that
(42:28):
are excited. I mean, we had Tiffany Hayes on the
show yesterday part of the Going and Stay Valkyries. The
league is expanding and so all of these new opportunities
are happening, and we love to see how fans are
embracing these women and embracing this new opportunity for women.
But also understand, even in those things, there are still
(42:50):
some some very small but significant differences in how we
discuss women and how we talk about women. Even something
is incident, you're here, I could be a snack, but
can I not be a snack in my job?
Speaker 3 (43:05):
You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (43:07):
I'm a do you know? Do you guys know who
I am? But yeah, Like it's just it's just there's
a there's a way that we discussed that we talk about.
I mean, even as far as something as being a
mom and being a basketball player, right, Like it's something
that we don't discuss. We don't discuss dads having to
(43:28):
not be home at Christmas or notving to you know,
not be not that they don't do it or don't
have to think about it, but it's just not something
that's discussed. It's normal, right for a woman to have
to be pregnant, play basketball, miss games, have to go
on the back, breastfeed, come back out. You remember Ada Dia.
Speaker 4 (43:43):
Barnes two seasons pregnant, Yes, and made the all start and.
Speaker 2 (43:50):
The playoffs.
Speaker 4 (43:51):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (43:51):
Yes. Kim Calwell just quite literally had a baby and
a week later she was back out there for Tennessee coaching. Like,
these are the kinds of incredible women that we have
in this space, and so we just have to think
about how we cover them and how we celebrate them
differently than we do. But at the end of the day,
I have really enjoyed this conversation with both of you.
(44:13):
I hope that all of you guys take a moment
to pull out your phones and follow levels to this
on all of your podcasting where that's Apple Podcasts, iheartpod
Spotify also in case you missed it, with Christina Williams.
Every week she has incredible guests on to keep you
updated on what you may have missed in the women's
(44:34):
Sports Space and Cheryl, what are you getting ready to
go do? I gotta go. Sorry, my son is in
the G League slam dunk contests, so I gotta go.
I gotta go, y'all. Thanks for being here, Bye Sarah.
Speaker 1 (44:53):
Listen to Levels to This on America's number one podcast network,
iHeart Open your free iHeart app and search Levels to
This with Sheryl Swoops and Tureka Foster Brasbee and start listening.
Hosts And Creators
Terrika Foster-Brasby
Sheryl Swoopes
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