Gringo's Guide To: Avoiding People Pleasing & Redefining Masculinityty w/ Dr. Paul Rivera

Dramos is joined by co-found of Be.Act.Change. Dr. Paul Rivera to talk about people pleasing, what it means to be a "man", the fallacy fo the American Dream, mental health and more!

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:06):
Let me talk about talk.

Speaker 2 (00:08):
Here we go.

Speaker 3 (00:11):
He said he lived life as a gringo, where you
question where you fit in every time you mingle, they.

Speaker 2 (00:16):
Say you do this with not of that.

Speaker 3 (00:21):
Yes, hello, and welcome to another episode of life as
a gringo.

Speaker 1 (00:25):
I am dramas, of course, and man first and foremost.
I like to apologize.

Speaker 3 (00:31):
I know I left you guys hanging on on Thursday
for a Thursday trans episode. I didn't do one last
week unexpectedly. I'm not gonna lie. I'll be completely open,
transparent and honest. I just wasn't up for it. And
I don't really know. My anxiety was like really crazy

(00:54):
that day. I think I had maybe pushed myself a
little bit too far. I had been working like crazy
the weekend prior and normally my weekends, you know, because
I feel bad. So I want to make sure you know.
I know it's a part of people's routines, and I hate.

(01:15):
I hate when my favorite like podcast or things that
I are part of my normal routine gets messed up unexpectedly, right,
So that's why I'm explaining myself. But I I had
worked a ton that weekend prior DJing wise, so I
did three gigs in a row Friday, Saturday, Sunday night.

Speaker 1 (01:36):
And on top of that, like I've mentioned.

Speaker 3 (01:39):
Before, I own a like a brick and mortar Uhau business,
so I had to be here in the morning Saturday
and Sunday, which ends up just completely throwing me off.
So I was running on like you know, I was
getting home from djaying at like fourth thirty five o'clock,

(02:02):
you know, and then by the time you was settling
and get to bed, and then I was sleep for
an hour. I have to get up to go over
to the store and open it up and get everything
set up for the day for customers and things like that.
So I was just operating on literally like zero sleep basically,
and then you know, I didn't take it as easy

(02:23):
as I would have liked to, I think, you know,
earlier in the week, and then it just caught up
with me as I was trying to record the podcast,
and I just like I just felt I just didn't
have it in me. So I apologize, but I'm gonna
be open and honest with y'all about that.

Speaker 1 (02:39):
It was just like whenever I get really like.

Speaker 3 (02:41):
Just exhausted exhausted, my anxiety like goes through the roof,
and my depression also begins to act up, and it's
like it's just it's genuinely crippling. So I have to
be very mindful of that, and you know, it's a
good reminder, I think, for myself to get better at

(03:05):
taking care of myself and you know, sort of the
common practice of you know, self care. I talk about
this all the time, and this isn't really necessarily what
this podcast even about today, but.

Speaker 1 (03:25):
You know, I want to be honest.

Speaker 3 (03:26):
I I think we all go through things like this sometimes,
and I think, you know, a younger version, we probably
would have just like sucked it up and done it,
and it would have been like half assed and whatever
it was, and it would have just made things worse,
and I would have just kept going down a deeper
and deeper cycle until I finally, like genuinely was physically

(03:49):
exhausted and couldn't get up and had to sleep for
two days straight, you know. And younger me, his schedule
allowed for that a little bit more than it does.

Speaker 2 (03:59):
Now.

Speaker 1 (03:59):
I have a lot more onsibility, So you know, I'm
just trying to.

Speaker 3 (04:08):
Not get into that bad mental place that I know
I could very easily slip into if I don't take
care of myself. Particularly I've been like on a really
good creative streak and just feeling really really good, and
I don't want to fuck that up and just kind
of go into zombie mode, which like I guess is

(04:28):
maybe good for production to a on the surface level,
but like is destroying me internally, and like I can't,
you know, function as a regular human being, and I'm
miserable doing things that I love doing, which I don't
want to get to right. So that's the long version
of why we didn't have a Thursday Trends on Thursday.

Speaker 1 (04:48):
So I apologize for that.

Speaker 3 (04:50):
I meant to make a post about it, but literally
I was just like I was like just done. I
was like, I gotta just climb in my bed and
like try and rest as much as I.

Speaker 1 (05:00):
I can and recuperate a little bit.

Speaker 3 (05:01):
And I did that, and and then on this last
week and arrested a lot more and prioritized like that
as as a goal of mine for the weekend, which
you know, the hyper productive part of me, the fomo
part of me, wants to go be doing many things,
wants to be.

Speaker 1 (05:20):
Go and be social and blah, blah blah.

Speaker 3 (05:22):
But I shut that down, made a point for me
to get some rest, and I woke up today and
in general start off this week just feeling amazing and
just like back to my myself. So yeah, that's the
long version of that. With that said, we are going
to have an amazing guest on the show. I actually

(05:44):
had his his wife, doctor Estrasadong on last week's episode,
and together they have a community brand called bac Change
and they're doing some incredible work with that of inspiring people.

(06:06):
And you know, he helped esther out with her book,
Creating Your Limitless Life and sort of I guess the
philosophy of the practice of that actual thing.

Speaker 1 (06:18):
And he's a really interesting guy.

Speaker 3 (06:20):
You know, he has a career in diplomacy, like working
for the government. You know, he's worked in international economics.
So just a lot of really interesting I think vantage
points for him to speak on that is fresh for
the podcast.

Speaker 1 (06:37):
And also he speaks a.

Speaker 3 (06:38):
Lot about male vulnerability, which you guys know that I'm
big on as as a mental health advocate, particularly when
I speak to the male perspective where you know, many
of us we can't share things, right. So he speaks
on that a lot, so I just thought it really,
you know, cool person to have on the show, and
it ended up being a great conversation. So I'm really

(06:59):
excited to bring that to everybody. And yeah, it's a
little bit long, so I'm just gonna get into it.
I think I hijacked the first part of the show,
but you know, I always like to be open and
transparent with everybody. With that said, let's get into my
conversation with doctor Paul Riveta as a part of ourmy
Hinte segment. My guest today is the co founder of

(07:28):
Be Act Change, doctor Paul Riveta.

Speaker 1 (07:32):
How you failing, my bro?

Speaker 2 (07:33):
I'm feeling amazing, man. I'm so glad to be here.
It's a huge, huge honor to be here. I love
the show, I love what you do, I love what
you stand for. So I'm just glad to be a
part of it.

Speaker 1 (07:43):
Thank you so much, man, I really really do appreciate that.

Speaker 3 (07:46):
And we had your wife, doctor Esther on on the
show recently as well. She's an absolutely incredible so I'm
glad we were able to.

Speaker 1 (07:54):
Yeah, keep the connection rolling over here.

Speaker 3 (07:57):
And I know you guys obviously you work on you know,
BAC changed together. But for you, I love to kind
of just get a little bit more of an introduction
into a bit about your story and and kind of
you know, your your experience and and kind of what
you're you think you're adding to to that brand as
well for sure.

Speaker 2 (08:15):
Yeah, I mean, you know, for one, the whole BAC
change concept is something that it works because we do
it together. So that's that's something that's really huge for us.
It's something we always wanted really from the time that
we met. So that's it's it's it's such such a
good feeling for us to actually see that launching and
getting off the ground and having success. It's amazing. Yeah.

(08:38):
So I'm I'm Paul Rivera. I'm I was born and
raised in Los Angeles. Uh, my mom is Mexican, my
dad is from mel Salvador. And you know, if you're
familiar with the Latino community in La or or frankly
almost any large urban area, you know that you can
pretty much live your life on a day to day basis,
except for maybe at school without having speak English. Right,

(09:01):
So I grew up in a very very Latino sort
of environment, Latino household. My story kind of goes there's
lots of stories. I love telling stories, but for beat
change and what we do, I can pretty much sort
of bring it down to. Like this one particular story

(09:22):
from when I was about five years old. My aunt,
who is ten years older than me, so my mom's
younger sister, who's ten years older than me, she was
getting ready for her quin Sanneta and I was her
dance partner. I loved it. I was five years old
and I would dance with her. And this was I'm

(09:44):
pretty old, right, So this was still in the disco era.
It was the seventies, and she would put on her
records and my grandparents had that big I don't know
if you remember those, but like this huge console stereo
with the speakers that would light up in all of this,
and so she and I would dance and we would
rehearse together and all this. And one day we're there
and this friend of my grandparents comes in I don't

(10:05):
even remember who it was, this guy that would come
by every now and then, and he sees me dancing
with her, and he kind of comes up to me
and he says, bland right. So for those of you
who don't speak Spanish, right, he was basically implying that
I was very doing something very girly in dancing with
my aunt, right, and I saw my dad's face, who

(10:30):
was who heard it, and he was sort of mortified,
and I was mortified, and it was it was a
really awful, awkward moment. And so I mean, needless to say,
I never danced with her again for that, for that Kensenne,
but I also basically never danced again for the next
thirty five years. Like it, like that moment caused this

(10:52):
deep scar in me that I associated that activity with
being super feminine. And in this machista environment that I
grew up in, nothing is worse than appearing feminine, right,
so I would, And so it evolved from there, Right,
So I became a really heavy people pleaser. I became

(11:13):
somebody who the last thing that I wanted to do
was to displease those that were around me, Right, So
I would mold myself to the person, to the situation,
to the environment, to the point where I really lost
track of who I was, right, what was my identity?
When we talk about now, it's easy to talk about

(11:34):
authenticity and all of that stuff and identity, but in
reality it means that sometimes you look in the mirror
and you don't recognize the person there anymore, and you
don't know what it is that even you stand for
anymore because you've given it all away, right, And it's
this whole story that came. And I mean, think about it.
I was married once before, and I think that I was.

(11:59):
I was a very easy person to be with in
a lot of ways because I would adapt to the person,
to the situation. But every time you do that, and
what you don't realize is that every time you do that,
you're giving away a piece of you. You're losing a
little piece of you, and that built up that anxiety

(12:20):
creates attention in you. Right. And at the same time,
I was brought up in this environment where we didn't
talk about our problems, we didn't talk about what was
bothering us, because that was feminine too, right. You have
to be strong, you have to always be in control.
So I was brought up not communicating. I was brought
up not expressing who the real, authentic me was. And

(12:45):
I basically got to a point where I snapped. I
snapped like I lost it. I lost it. I completely
blew up my life. I changed everything in one swoop
that had been bothering me for decades. At that point,
you know it explode. It was an explosion, and explosions
are horrible. You can imagine. You know, It's not how

(13:05):
it has to be. You know, if you are if
you are a person who's in touch with yourself and
your authenticity and you learn how to communicate that to
those around you, it doesn't have to be an explosion.
You can make all kinds of massive changes with planning
and as a team with your partner and all of that.
But I didn't have those tools at that point, so

(13:28):
so you know it was that. So part of part
of this movement for me is is creating a space
for Latinos, for Latino men in particular, to understand how
important it is for us to be able to speak,
for us to be able to talk about the things
that bother us, for us for what it what it

(13:50):
means to live authentically, To start to redefine what we
mean when we say what it means to be a man,
that redefining our concept of masculine. It's not just one
of swallowing everything and not showing any pain. It's actually
one of learning to be vulnerable enough to tell you
when I'm not feeling good to let you know when

(14:10):
I need help, you know, so all of this and
so when we bring that in, you know, if you talk,
you talk to esther. So I know she told you
all about finding your superpower and finding your purpose and
aligning your actions to it and creating that resilience. All
of that is an extension of being in touch with
yourself and learning to live in a way that is

(14:31):
aligned with who you actually are. You know, when we
talk about about being men and being masculine and all this,
we want to we want to bring our best strengths
into the world for our families, for ourselves, for our children,
for our communities. And my belief begins from the premise
that the best way to do that is by getting
in touch with what it is that I personally have

(14:53):
best to bring to the world. However that works out,
so that's sort of the genesis of it. You know,
she and I have similar or but different backgrounds, but
we complement each other because this is this is sort
of the overall approach that that we bring to be
at change. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (15:08):
No, and you hit on a lot of.

Speaker 3 (15:11):
A lot of things that resonate with me personally and
one thing that that stood out what you just said,
was you were an easy person to be with basically, right,
because you were so agreeable. And and I think that
that the part about this whole authenticity conversation that I
think kind of doesn't get spoken about quite enough is

(15:36):
the transition from maybe being somebody that is well liked,
you have a lot of you know, maybe you have
a large social circle, and you know your your what
your calendar is always booked and busy, right, And and
when you begin to live a bit more authentically and
have boundaries and are far more expressive in what you

(15:57):
like and don't like, you know, it begins to rub
certain people the wrong way in your.

Speaker 1 (16:02):
Life, right.

Speaker 3 (16:02):
And I think that is a bit of a jarring
experience that I know that I've personally gone through that
almost makes you question your own authenticity, right, and if
it's almost even worth the journey. So I'd be curious
if you had your own sort of experiences within that
and how you sort of became comfortable with the idea
of maybe not being someone's cup of tea right at

(16:25):
the end of the day.

Speaker 2 (16:25):
For sure, I will tell you that as part of
that whole explosion and blow up scenario. It created a
situation where a lot of the people that I would
hang out with, a lot of people who were my
friends in that in the past sort of had came
to a section, to a point where they, how do

(16:49):
I say today, Almost everyone that I hung out with
back then is gone for my life. They're gone from
my life. There were people that I thought would be
my friends forever who have disappeared. I haven't talked to them,
I haven't heard from them in over a decade. And
these were people that I shared work with, I shared
life experiences with. All of this to come exactly as

(17:10):
you say, to the realization that they hung out with
me or I hung out with them because I was
the one that was putting forth all the effort. These
were people who were my colleagues, they were my companions,
but at the end of the day, they were not
my champions, right. They were not the people who were
with me when I needed help and support. They're not

(17:31):
the people who were who would go on the journey
with me in a non judgmental way, you know. So
it is it's one of the scary things, you know,
because we're humans and we long for connection and community.
And companionship. But to realize that the entire circle that

(17:53):
that might be around you is fake, it's weak, it's
not it's not real, it's not truly supportive, is a huge,
huge place to get you get to in your mind,
you know, because then you realize what what am I doing?
What's you know, what's going on? You know? And what
do I need to do differently? And it's interesting because

(18:15):
I would say that now today I have a smaller
group of friends. Definitely, I have a smaller group of friends.
I have a nucleus of people. But those are my people.
They're my people, my people, you know what I mean.
They're the ones that and it's and it's not even
like it's it's it's cute to say, you know that,

(18:35):
you know I need to call you at three in
the morning because there's an emergency. That's fine. There. They
are definitely that, But it's more like the people that
I say, you know what, we have this crazy idea,
we want to change the world, and we have this
crazy idea. And who are the people who look you
in the eye and say, you know what, you are
the person to do that? One hundred percent. I'm behind you.

(18:58):
I'm going to be your first Those are your champions, right,
Those are the people that you need in your corner.
And if you have to let go of a bunch
of people who are really there to criticize you, to
not back you up, to tell you all the reasons
why you can't and it's not gonna work, then it's
worth it to let them go. You know, that nucleus
that core, Those are the people that you nurture. Those

(19:20):
are the people that you're gonna springboard each other into
heights that neither of you had imagined before. You know,
it's gold.

Speaker 3 (19:29):
All right, happing hero quick, We'll take a quick break
and then we'll be right back.

Speaker 1 (19:37):
All right, we are back now.

Speaker 3 (19:39):
You talk about this time period of kind of blowing
everything up, right, and and I think blowing it up
is the easy part, Right, It's easy.

Speaker 1 (19:46):
To burn it all down basically, you know, I think.

Speaker 3 (19:49):
The hard part is actually building and building from a
place of substance, right, and building from a place of
not accepting any less than you feel like you deserve. Essentially, right,
that that is actually the tough part, because it I
means saying having more nose than yes is right. You're
you're you're accepting far less than you were before. So

(20:11):
I'm curious, you know, after blowing everything up, then you know,
what was the journey of really intentionally building and crafting
the life that you were longing for at that point? Like?

Speaker 1 (20:22):
What did that that look like?

Speaker 3 (20:24):
You know, challenging yourself to so seek out all that
you felt like you were missing in your life?

Speaker 2 (20:29):
Right, it was really tough. I mean, I will say,
I'm not going to minimize the difficulty the impact of
blowing up your life, you know, because the truth is
that it was something that was fifteen twenty years in
the making for me, you know what I mean. So
so to have finally gotten to that point where I

(20:50):
couldn't tolerate it anymore was was pretty big. And unfortunately,
I think a lot of people were hurt in that process,
you know, So that part, that part I don't I
don't want to overly minimize that. But you're absolutely right, like, Okay,
you did this. There's no going back, right, right, So
what are you going to do? How are you going
to pick up the pieces? How are you going to
not make the same mistakes again? You know? And it

(21:13):
is incredibly hard. I would say, I would say number one.
And one of the things that I advocate a lot
to my Latino listeners, to my African American listeners, my
immigrant listeners, It's okay to go to therapy, it's okay
to seek help, and it's you know, my family, I

(21:36):
know Esther's family, all of them still pretty much think
that that that, you know, they tell us it's about locals,
that's for crazy people, and we're not crazy, you know,
We're not going to do that. And so there's there's
such a stigma and we see and you know, we
we say that, we can say that sort of jokingly.
We see it in memes all the time. But the
truth is that all that bears out in the statistics
when we look at mental health care, mental health impacts,

(22:00):
all these things. In the Latino community in the United States,
we are doing really poorly, you know. So we say
that we're coping, we say that we're toughening up, but
we're actually doing it really badly, you know. And so
one first thing is absolutely going to therapy. And when
I say going to therapy, I mean for real going
to therapy, like meaning it like with the intention of

(22:22):
becoming a better, stronger, more authentic person, you know, like
I had gone to therapy before with my ex, we
had done therapy together before. And I think, you know,
in retrospect, I know that I was not putting my
full self into it. It was something that I was
not really devoted to the process or the outcome in

(22:45):
the in a way that would really lead to growth
and healing. Right, So that's the first thing that you
got to talk to somebody else. You can't stay spinning
in your head. And again, especially for the men, this
is something that as men were taught to do deal
with your own problems, right, you know, tough en up,
sem ma macho, whatever it is, you know what I mean.
We're taught to just swallow it, you know, like I

(23:08):
and I find it. I find it really really cool. Actually,
I know that that you work on another podcast also, right,
the Street Stoic. Yeah, and and it's interesting. I think
I love words. I speak six languages. It's I love words.
I think that that stoic and stoicism are two of
the most misunderstood and misused words, right, because your your podcast,

(23:32):
The Street Stoic. I've listened to several episodes of it,
and and it's really about living authentically and developing the
resilience and learning how to how to take the wisdom
from the ancient Stoics to live a stronger, more connected life.
But in modern terms, the word stoic, the word stoic

(23:53):
means to endure pain without complaint. That's what it means
to be stoic. So those are two very different things. Right.
So we are taught as as men as Latinos to
be stoic, but not to follow the teachings of stoicism, right, right,
So it's a it's a it's a fascinating nuance that
that I think people need to need to sort of

(24:15):
come around to a little bit more, you know.

Speaker 3 (24:17):
Yeah, yeah, I think, yeah, I think the a lot
of the misconception around the idea of stoicism is almost
like you're never affected by anything, you know, very like
stone face, like you know, to the world type of thing,
no emotions, almost essentially right, right, And I yeah, I
think the the actual real you know, uh, you know,

(24:39):
kind of power behind it is the idea of feeling
your emotions but not being overcome by them to the
point that you can't actually process them in a healthy manner.
I think that is the the actual definition of it
that I try to apply of always looking at it
from a more calm place rather than like a reactive place,
you know. And yeah, to your point, Yeah, I think
that is that is a bit of the misconception around it.

Speaker 1 (25:02):
And and also I think.

Speaker 3 (25:03):
That is, you know, much of what we're taught as
as men, you know, is sort of you know, when
you you throw some dirt on it and keep it
moving almost, you know. And and you know, I think
the thing that a lot of people sort of don't
realize or don't want to face is the fact that
those those that emotion, that pain, that trauma, it doesn't
go anywhere, right, no matter how much you try and

(25:26):
bury it down.

Speaker 1 (25:27):
At some point in time, it's going to come out.

Speaker 3 (25:28):
And unfortunately, oftentimes it comes out in places that do
not deserve, you know, that that sort of visceral emotion,
that that is oftentimes in the form of violence or
self harm or whatever it might be. And I guess,
you know, I think there's there's something in the in
the middle of all of this though, because I think

(25:49):
for me, I think there is value in some of
the traditional aspects of the masculine right. I think that
I think we also begin to go down this this
route where anything associated with masculine is bad is negative, right,
And I kind of it's an interesting conversation that I'm
beginning to see happen now where maybe there's people saying, hey,

(26:11):
maybe we're having a bit of an overcorrection where we're saying,
you know, man is bad, so therefore anything associated with
man is terrible. And I think a lot of the
younger generation then begin to question.

Speaker 1 (26:21):
Sort of where do I fit into this world? What
is my value?

Speaker 2 (26:25):
Right?

Speaker 3 (26:25):
Where can I sort of lean into my masculine when
is it not appropriate? And I guess for you, what
sort of has been that balance of going against the
grain of maybe what we've been taught growing up about
what it means to be a man, but also saying, hey,
there is value in my masculine, in the sort of
strength that is associated with being a man.

Speaker 1 (26:45):
I'm curious how you sort of walk that line.

Speaker 2 (26:48):
You know, I agree with you one hundred percent. Like
there is there is a lot of talk that anything
masculine is inherently bad, and I completely see that. I
think that that all of that, though, comes down to
the overly strict application of general rules. General concepts without

(27:12):
necessarily having the introspective questioning that has to go with it.
So so in my case, for example, I know that
I love art, I love literature, I love languages, I
love babies, Like my favorite thing in the world is
like holding babies and playing with babies. You know, all

(27:34):
of those things in in the environment that I was
brought up, and we're looked at, We're looked upon as
pretty feminine things, right they were, they were frowned upon.
I'm I love to cook. I'm the cook in our
family all the time. All of those things. My mom
to this day kind of denigrates my my wife, Esther,

(27:55):
because I'm the cook like she's. My mom believes that
Esther is less of a woman, less of a wife
because her husband does the cooking right, and that's that's
It's silly to me, but that's that's what she believes,
you know. At the same time, I also know that
I am the protector in my household. We travel all

(28:16):
over the world with the kids, and I'm super aware
that my that an important part of my role is
to keep them safe, which I would say is a
fairly traditional masculine role that I'm you know, I'm also
the fixer in the house. I grew up in a
super blue collar household, you know, reroofing with my dad
and you know, dropping trannies in the cars and all

(28:38):
of this thing. So those are my jobs too. But
that is me. That is what I bring to the equation, right,
That is because I don't do those I don't do
them because it's a man job. I do them because
that is sort of between the two of us we
have We're a team. We have a whole bunch of
things that we need to accomplish, and we sort of
use our comparative advantage to say who's going to do

(29:00):
this job, who's going to do that job. It doesn't
matter who, it's who's best suited for it. And that's
how that's how things play out. You know, some of them,
by definition, are going to come out in sort of
the traditional roles, but some of them aren't. And the
truth is that once you see yourself not as a
man trying to be a manly man or a woman
trying to be overly feminine, but as a team, that

(29:22):
your job is to put together this household and to
carry those jobs forward as best as you can for yourselves.
For your children. Then the gender, the sex role that's
assigned to that particular job becomes irrelevant. It's just who
can who who is better suited for this particular skill.
You know, she is a genius, a master of logistics.

(29:45):
Like if I had to be the one to schedule
us and to actually make stuff happen, we would go nowhere.
This enterprise that we have would go absolutely nowhere because
that is one hundred percent her skill and zero mind.
And at the same time, if we had to create
a household where esther was the one who fed everybody,

(30:05):
the only advantage would be that we would all be
thinner because she does not out So.

Speaker 3 (30:13):
I mean you so yeah, But I think that's a
great sort of you know, I think a great way
to look. It's not black and white, right, and I
think I think to your point kind of even with
the cooking thing, I think it's it's not this idea
of I think. I think the thing is we think
we have to be either one or the other, right,

(30:33):
And I think that's where the toxicness of the concept
of masculinity comes into play, where it's like, you know,
to your point about your your mother sort of thinking
that the woman's place or whatever it might be. I
think that's where we've to begin to get ourselves into
troubles when we're too fixated on the black and white
nature of these these different things. But to your point,

(30:53):
there are certain traditional aspects that you are personally drawn
to that inherently make you feel good inside to be
able to take care of those things, be it protecting
your family, be it being able to fix things around
the house, right, And I think that is sort of
the positive aspect of your personal you know, traditional masculinity
right as a societal standard, and I think that is

(31:15):
is kind of a good way to to sort of
look at it, as it doesn't have to be sort
of one.

Speaker 1 (31:19):
Or the other.

Speaker 3 (31:20):
And it's also a bit more of a personal journey
than I think people.

Speaker 1 (31:26):
Society.

Speaker 3 (31:27):
We have made it as a norm, right, We've made
it sort of like everybody has to check a specific
box to be considered a man. And to your point,
there are certain things that you're naturally drawn to, are
naturally suited for that someone else might not be.

Speaker 1 (31:39):
But you're both sort of men in your own right
in that context.

Speaker 2 (31:43):
Right, And it's important to say also, something that you
said just sort of sparked it for me, I don't
for we happen to spend our time between between Miami
and the Dominican Republic. I'm actually calling you today from
Santo Domingo, and it's it's a great place, and we've
we've sort of had this arrangement for for several years now.
But one of one of the interesting things about living

(32:05):
in spending a lot of time in Latin America, and
spend particularly in the in Caribbean Latin America, is that,
for example, there is a tremendous amount of homophobia that
that is part of these societies, and and that's a
whole other layer, you know, realizing to come to the
point where you realize that even masculine and feminine goes

(32:28):
beyond sexuality, right that it's it's really fascinating to see that.
But to hear some of some folks here who here,
for example, have to live in hiding there there they're
basically there is no coming out, you know, everybody's sort
of forced to stay in the closet or at least
pretend that they are kind of a thing. And it's

(32:51):
so much of that is because the society is set
up in such a black and white polarized binary situation
like you describe that there there isn't even necessarily room
in the conceptualization of reality to allow for anything that
doesn't fit neatly into these things. So you know, I know,
I know the struggles that I went through as as

(33:13):
you know, a straight male. I can only imagine how
much more difficult it is for for folks who who
are on sort of in the LGBTQ groups.

Speaker 1 (33:21):
You know, yeah, no, one undred percent.

Speaker 3 (33:23):
I think that that's a great touch point as well,
because it's I mean, even that conversation around authenticity, you know,
I think for me when I hear certain like people's
coming out stories, you know a lot of friends who
are members of the LGBTQ plus community, and I can't
help but feel emotionally tied to it, just on the

(33:44):
level of not feeling like.

Speaker 1 (33:47):
You could show up fully as yourself right.

Speaker 3 (33:49):
And I felt like that in my own journey, And
and that's why I relate and I'm such an advocate
for that community because I know if I felt it
as a you know, heterosexual man who you know doesn't
have to deal with half the burdens that they do,
I can only imagine what it.

Speaker 1 (34:03):
Was like to really be living in you know, sort
of this character version of yourself and wishing.

Speaker 3 (34:10):
So badly that you could just have the basic, you know,
sort of human need of wanting to publicly be with
your you know, your partner and and not feel like
you are being looked down upon or being disparaged for
for who you love, you know, so.

Speaker 2 (34:23):
Much less persecuted.

Speaker 3 (34:24):
Yeah, yeah, well yeah, absolutely on the more on the
more you know, unfortunate practical, extreme practice of of what
it meant, especially in you know, previous decades of the
previous generation, it's sad man And I think you know
that that's I'm a big advocate for for authenticity as well,
because I think, you know, there there's I think people

(34:45):
are carrying around so many unnecessary burdens because they're just
so afraid of showing the world who they are and
and and not even in like you know, terms like
obviously when it comes to homophobia and things like that,
they're there are real inherent dangers if you find yourself
in the wrong you know, area or around the wrong person.

(35:06):
But what's interesting to me, on the sort of other
side of that, a lot of people are really scared
even with things that don't necessarily present physical danger to you, right,
even just the way that they want to dress, you know,
they instead of expressing themselves in that way, they follow
the trends and things like that.

Speaker 1 (35:23):
And I think it's.

Speaker 3 (35:24):
A it's just a really sort of I don't know, interesting,
interesting sort of commentary on human beings and just how
easy it is to fall in line and just how
pre programmed we are from a young age to fall
in line.

Speaker 2 (35:42):
I mean, I think that's one of the things that
really started out for us, like the reason why we
created bac change. Like, actually I don't I don't remember.
I'm not sure how much Esther told you from our origins.
But originally bac Change started out as really just the
YouTube channel, and it was just sort of a movement,
and it was it was just it was right around
the beginning of COVID, and we felt that there was

(36:05):
so much negativity happening and we just wanted a venue
to sort of share positivity, you know, And over time
it's evolved so much more. I don't think we could
have predicted back then, even and this was only five
years ago, but I can't. I don't think we could have
predicted what it has become for us. But so much
of it is we see that people are so fundamentally

(36:31):
misaligned that there's such a strong desire as a society,
whether it's our society, any society, to regulate, to give
us sort of the set of rules that we are
told are right and wrong, and that if we follow
them we're okay, and if we deviate from them, we're

(36:52):
going to be ostracized, We're going to be mocked somehow
or whatever it is, and the impact that that has
on us as individuals, you know. So I can say
that the hardest thing for us in terms of putting
out our messaging and our messaging is one of understanding

(37:12):
that each person that you meet has a superpower. There's
something special that each individual brings, how it is that
they approach the world, how it is that they solve problems,
and that valuing that in others allows you to value
it in yourself. It allows us to create what we
call collective power, where where what we create is a

(37:35):
space where we're not competing with each other anymore, but
actually valuing each other for what we bring and how
it is that we can create better, better couples, better families,
better communities, better societies together. Right. The hardest thing in
that movement is trying to get people away from the

(37:56):
deeply ingrained thinking feeling it's almost instinctive in people that
we want to categorize people. And and that's the hardest part, right,
getting people to understand each person is an individual and
you value them for their for their individuality. You celebrate
them for that individuality and what it is that they bring.

(38:18):
You don't try to put them in a box because
you don't even know what boxes are relevant to them, right,
And so it's been it's been that's been the struggle
for us, you know, getting people to take the mindsets
that they're used to, that they've grown up with culturally, religiously, socially,
and basically blowing them so much more wide open, you know,

(38:41):
Like I've had the luxury the blessing in my life.
I've traveled to one hundred and eighteen different countries in
the world, so I've seen huge parts of the world.
I've met all kinds of people, every religion, every color,
every language, everything, And you get to the point where
you realize that they're is a fundamental humanity that brings

(39:02):
everyone together. There's a fundamental humanity and if you approach
people anywhere in the world with that mindset, that mindset
of every individual is valuable, has a superpower, that there's
something common that binds us together. The way in which
you will have interactions with people throughout your life is

(39:23):
so much more rewarding, so much more impactful, so much
more fulfilling. And you know that's that's basically the messaging
we're trying to put out there.

Speaker 3 (39:33):
Yeah, no, I think I mean, obviously, I think traveling
is probably one of the greatest gifts you can give
yourself to really get out of your comfort zone to
see how other people live and interact with one another,
and I think it allows you to create a bit
of to your point, you know, the humanization of each other,
right of people who are different, and seeing the humanity
and the beauty in things that are different. Aren't a

(39:54):
pop in one more time, we'll take a quick break
and then we'll be right back. We are back, and
I think you know what I've begun to realize, particularly
in the time period that we're living in right now,
it's a very polarizing time period, especially in the US
and politics and things of that nature. I think people

(40:16):
have trouble with nuance is sort of what I've been
noticing is being able to see a multi layer sort
of point of view, and even with people who maybe
share your core belief right, you know, I'm a progressive,
but for some people, I'm not progressive enough on certain things.
And there's like this attack that happens, right, and I think,

(40:37):
you know, we've sort of lost a bit of the
conversation around civil discourse, right, the ability to have civil discourse,
the ability to disagree on certain things but also understand
that it doesn't mean that person is inherently a bad person. Now,
obviously there are aligns to that if they believe something
that goes against your safety and your core beliefs.

Speaker 1 (40:56):
Sure, but where we meet in the middle of we
both respect each other.

Speaker 3 (41:00):
I think we move from a place of wanting to
win a conversation rather than wanting to listen to one another.
And I'm curious from your work, from your perspective, you know,
do you have you sort of found that as well
as this sort of lack of the ability to conceptualize
and accept nuance in conversation.

Speaker 2 (41:18):
I would yeah, so, my my my history, my expertise professionally,
for example, is my PhDs in economics, but my field
of expertise is really in strategic planning, and I do
really most of the strategic planning I'm doing is pretty
pretty high level, so it's sort of US government type things,

(41:38):
and it's international, so it's government to government creating strategic
plans for for example, what any particular country is going
to do over the next five seven years with US
government assistance, and it's it's something that requires a tremendous
amount of negotiation between between governments. But at the end

(42:00):
of the day, are individuals, right, So it's people, people
and people and even sort of the same same team
not always have the same objectives and all of that,
and then it's starting to socialize those messages within their communities,
within their countries. And so I would say that in
that process professionally, what I've seen is a progressive decline.

(42:27):
For you said, Nuance, and I know completely what you mean.
The word that came to my mind is information, So
that what I started to see was that people are
progressively becoming much more reactionary on an emotional level, making
decisions at that level without necessarily accepting much less much

(42:54):
less being open to the idea of new information. And
you know, and and that I think that's very closely
tied to the nuance concept that you bring about, because
that's what that's what happens when you become, for example,
a data analyst. Data is never almost never going to
tell you a black and white story, right, It's going
to give it's going to give you information. But as
you dig into it, you start to tease out that

(43:15):
there are nuances, there are subtle differences between between groups,
between regions, between effects, and all of that. So those
things are I would say, in peril a little bit,
the willingness of people to dig into information, to really
spend the time learning, to spend the time questioning sort

(43:40):
of preconceived notions. You know, there's so much more I
think nowadays that is taken as not literally but figuratively
gospel that this is, you know, this is the basis
of fact that we're going to start from, and anything
that deviates from that is fundamentally incorrect. You know. It's
a much more emotional, gut life, little black and white

(44:01):
kind of a thing. So and I mean, certainly in
the United States, I think we see that in a
large part of the political discourse, you know, and so
it's it's a really hard thing to get people to do,
you know. It's as I said, it's it's along the
lines of and I see why you ask the question.
You know, like our idea of having people be valued

(44:24):
and understood as individuals requires a tremendous amount of nuance.
It requires you to acquire information about people when it's
much easier to just see them, categorize them and move
on with your life. You know. So we're I get it.
We're what we're asking if people is is to put
in a little bit of work, you know, but it's
worth it because frankly, at this point, what's happening isn't

(44:47):
working real well.

Speaker 1 (44:48):
No, not, I mean not at all.

Speaker 3 (44:49):
And I think I think what you know, It's what
I've realized as I get older, it's like you almost
have to deprogram yourself from all the shit you were
taught and then really kind of like it's almost like
just dumping it on the floor and then looking at
it from like standing above it and being like, okay,
that makes sense. That obviously was some you know, nonsense,
and really being able to piece together kind of what
is reality. I think we we sort of it's very

(45:11):
disorienting right now, and I think it's because we have
so much information, right so you're being hit with with
with so.

Speaker 1 (45:17):
Many things that are nonsense, that are bs.

Speaker 3 (45:20):
But also on the positive side of it, you're being
shown a lot of things that you didn't know about
prior to right. You you almost don't even necessarily have
to leave, you know, the country to start realizing how
the other half lives almost right, and and that begins
to open your mind me even things like you know,
lost like African American history. You know, the fact that
like June teenth, is this new idea really that people

(45:41):
still don't even grasp fully of why it's such an
important event. Right, these are things we're having to relearn
or you know, Christopher Columbus sort.

Speaker 1 (45:49):
Of like you know, the change about You grew up
with him as a hero.

Speaker 3 (45:53):
Now it's like, well, actually he was you know, committed
like a genocide against the natives, you know.

Speaker 1 (45:58):
And so I think to your point point, you have
to do the work.

Speaker 3 (46:01):
And I think for a lot of people, their identity
gets in the way of them deprogramming because they're so
attached to this idea of themselves, their place in the world.
And and even I think conceptually this the US sort
of as this dominant sort of note makes no mistakes
the greatest place on earth. Everybody else in the world
is like struggling, and we're the only people who have

(46:22):
figured it out type of idea that we've all grown
up on. It's really disorienting to sort of wake up
one day and say, wow, was it all just a lie?
And I've been sort of leading this weird path that
really just goes nowhere. I'm just fucking spinning like a
like a hamster wheel almost, And I think that's probably
where I mean, that's difficult, I think to ask people
to do so, but I mean.

Speaker 1 (46:45):
That that's it's like.

Speaker 3 (46:46):
That or or or like you just sort of lived
life as a zombie almost, you know.

Speaker 2 (46:51):
Right right, And that's I mean, that's where we're at,
you know, the and the think here's the thing, the
thing is that I did that. Yeah, I I've lived
life as a zombie. I've I've I've lived life as
the person who accepted the status quo, who lived day
to day. And that's that's what happens when you're living
as a zombie. Means that you're living day to day, right,

(47:12):
you're you're you're planning horizon comes down really really close
to you. You don't you don't think too much beyond
sort of the immediate future, right, and what that that
the the impact of that is that you start to
you start to do things that don't make sense to you,

(47:35):
things that that are taking you further away from from
your core because you're just taking little steps. You're just
taking little steps and you're not going in any particular direction.
So so every time I think of something, I think
of my dad. So my dad. My dad's a mechanic,
and so anything that has an engine of motor and

(47:57):
my dad loves it. Right, my dad. Whenever my sister
or I were just sitting around doing nothing, which frankly
was almost never because they always had us work in
our asset, right, But in those rare moments we would
be doing nothing, my dad would come up to us.
He would put his hands in front of our faces

(48:17):
and move them up and down, show our fingers up
and down, right, without actually bringing our fingers his fingers together, right,
He would just go like this, So, what is that
in my dad's worldview? That is your transmission in neutral.
This is your transmission in neutral. You're going absolutely nowhere, right.
So for him, being a zombie is that you're just

(48:39):
going nowhere right. And so and the same thing. Whenever
my dad was thinking about something and he and like
the idea, the solution would click in his mind. I
would see him all the time. He would visibly do
that same movement, but actually bring all of his fingers
together because suddenly, now I'm in gear. Now I'm thinking right.
So whenever I think of that, that whole living as

(49:01):
a zombie, you're just you're just living in neutral. You're
going nowhere, right. And so, so for us, I know
that this movement is something. It's tough. We're we're swimming upstream,
you know, We're we're pushing, We're pushing against the the
status quo. That's why my T shirt says push boundaries,
you know, because that's that's what we're here to do.
We're not here to be a neutral. We're here to

(49:22):
click gears and move forward, you know. And it's it's
a it's a fight worth fighting. And I would say
also similar but different. One of the one of the
groups that we speak a lot to is a group
that we call trailblazers. It's the folks who are on
the forefront. It's the folks who are doing something for
the first time, and it could be anything, you know,

(49:45):
like when I'm a first gen college student, I was
one hundred percent a trailblazer for doing that. You know.
It's not was I the first person ever to go
to college, obviously not, but in my family, in my circles,
anyone around me, I was. I had to navigate that
path on my own, you know. And the fortitude that
it takes to go into uncharted territory without a roadmap,

(50:06):
without even a voice of inspiration behind you, sometimes takes
so much strength. But at the end of the day,
if what we're after is you know, creating social change,
improving our communities, improving our own well being and our
own you know, standing in the community, whatever it is
that that moves you, you have to take those steps.

(50:28):
You're not You're not going to You're not going to
make the change, have the impact that you in your
in your heart and your soul want to have without
taking those those trailblazing steps sometimes, you know. So so
here we are pushing that envelope.

Speaker 3 (50:43):
A little bit yeah, yeah, I mean I think, you know,
to your point, it's it's the individual's sort of choice
that to hop on that journey. I think only you know,
persons like you and I could have the conversation hopefully
introduce these ideas to maybe somebody who hasn't thought about
it in this manner, and and you know, but at
the end of the day that it's up to the
individual to take that.

Speaker 1 (51:04):
Step, you know.

Speaker 3 (51:05):
And and also I think on the flip side of it,
we have to have some empathy for people who aren't
ready to do that yet, and you know, aren't at
that point in in their journey.

Speaker 1 (51:15):
And I think it's easy to to sort.

Speaker 3 (51:17):
Of get frustrated, especially when you've sort of done the
work and say, like, how do you not see this?

Speaker 1 (51:22):
You just want to shake somebody, you know.

Speaker 3 (51:23):
But but I think, you know, as if anything, it's
it's always more impactful when somebody makes a decision based
upon their own sort of free will rather than you
forcing them into something but one thing they work with, but.

Speaker 2 (51:35):
They also can't make any people can't make any changes
that they haven't seen. Right when we talk about when
we talk about representation and the importance of all of that.
That's part of it, you know. And I know that
Esther and I spend a lot of time talking to youth,
the universities and all of that, and probably the most
common reaction that we get because we like, she and
I actually do keynote speeches together. We do a key

(51:57):
joint keynote speech when or you know, she and I
trey off and we do workshops together and all of that.
And one of the biggest comments that we get from
from the young people is they've never seen uh, sort
of what they call a power couple like that that
were latinos. They they've never seen a husband and wife
who like happily work together who talk so much about

(52:23):
you know, their their their individual and their joint dreams
and that alignment. It's just conversations they've never seen happen
before in people that look like us, you know. So
so you know, part of part of that change is
showing people that there is a different way.

Speaker 1 (52:37):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (52:38):
Absolutely, Their representation obviously is is half the battle. And
and the introduction of concepts, you know, I think is
is sort of what a lot of people are lacking,
you know. To your point, it's not something we speak
about especially in our community. You know, the idea of
wellness and personal growth are not kitchen table topics, you know.
But I want to I want to close out on

(52:59):
something that I think I haven't really got a chance
to touch on. And it's an interesting concept for me
because I really we were talking about this country, and
I think a bit of economics and things of that nature.
I know, you speak about the American dream for Latinos, right,
and you talk about broken promises and the fallacy of
the American dream for Latinos. I think the world as

(53:21):
a wholes maybe waking up to the idea of the
American Dream is not necessarily all it's cracked up to be,
or maybe not even a real thing for my generation
and younger, but specifically when it comes to Latinos, I'd
be curious to hear your perspective of how you think
it's affecting our community, for sure.

Speaker 2 (53:39):
For sure, No, I appreciate that. So, I mean, so,
for one, A lot of this comes from the research
that we did for our book.

Speaker 1 (53:45):
Right.

Speaker 2 (53:45):
Our book is called Creating Your Limitless Life, and the
sort of subtitle of it is Chasing the American Dream
crossed out right, So it's a big piece of what
we saw in doing this research. Right, Okay, so the
American Dream. For one, it's really important to note that
the American dream is a concept, and it's a global concept.
So even in like Australia, you hear people talking about

(54:07):
the American Dream and living it in Australia and things
like that. Right, So it's this idea of people going
somewhere else to seek their fortune.

Speaker 1 (54:15):
Right.

Speaker 2 (54:15):
The American Dream from a definition point of view, from
like a concept point of view, is basically about a
situation where in if there is social equality or equity
at least, that basically everyone is starting on the same footing,
and that what gets you ahead is your own effort, right,

(54:39):
and that that combination of ope of equity and effort
is what allows you to create your highest aspirations. Right.
That's the concept. Switch that over to how it is
that that's been applied in reality nowadays. You can look
at if you look at the American Dream on any website,
you look at on the New York Times or whatever,

(55:01):
what comes up is that they have now measures of
the American dream. And the measures of the American dream
are your car, your house, your job, your income, your
education level. Right, they're very sort of check mark sort
of things. So we've translated this beautiful idea of equity
and opportunity and effort and your highest aspirations into a

(55:22):
checkbox list, right. And so we have so many of
our people, our ancestors, frankly from all over the world,
but so many from Latin America who are coming here
with that hope of the American dream. Okay, So we
get here and we realize one that equity is not real, right.

(55:44):
We know that that there's generational wealth that has an impact,
there's systemic racism that has an impact. So just from
the starting point that that equity isn't there, okay. The
second piece is that as that that there's a huge, huge,
there's an income gap. Right. So for every dollar that
a non Latino makes, a Latino makes about seventy seven cents,

(56:07):
so there's that twenty three percent. And then you add
to that the generational wealth impact. So for every dollar
that a white person or a non Latino person has
in assets, a Latino has twenty cents. So there's a
fivefold gap there. That's massive, right, and that means that
Latinos are less likely to one being having their money

(56:31):
work for them productively. But it also means that they're
less likely to invest in healthcare, less likely to invest
in education, less likely to invest in all of these
things that are going to build them up individually and
as a group. Right, there has been definitely progress in
that over the last couple of decades, but that gap
that I'm telling you about is what still exists today.

(56:52):
So you can imagine how far we've had to come
just to get to that point. Okay, what does that
mean though, So one is that this creates a tremendous
amount of stress and pressure and anxiety in Latino communities.
When you look at mental health, which we talked about
a little bit earlier, Latinos there are four million Latinos

(57:14):
in the United States every year who undergo extreme depressive episodes,
which and you know, I'm not a psychologist, but what
I understand from this is that it's not just I
feel bad or I'm feeling down one day, it's I
can't function people notice the people around me are worried
right to the point. Add to that that among that group,

(57:35):
there is a significantly higher percentage of that group who
undergoes suicidal ideation in addition to that depression. So there's
a huge group of them that not only do they
feel awful, but they're not even sure that they can
continue in their lives, that they're not sure that they
have value to add to the world anymore. And when

(57:58):
they are asked about why, what is it that brings
you to this point, why do you feel that way?
The answers almost always come down to them feeling like
they are not reaching the check marks of the American Dream.
I'm not providing enough for my family. I've been here, however,
many years, and I haven't been able to buy a
house yet. I haven't been able to send the amount

(58:19):
of remittances that I want to back to my home country.
All of these things. It's that it's the check marks.
Boom boom boom. I feel like I'm deficient in all
of them, you know. And what's what I find personally fascinating, amazing, baffling,
and confusing is that despite all of that, in the
United States, if you ask if they've done, they've done

(58:41):
these polls asking people about the American Dream and their
beliefs in it. Latinos are some of the ones that
support the idea of the American Dream more than anyone,
you know. So I think it's a it's a really
interesting wake up call, I hope for our communities. One
is that, you know, they're sort of for immigrants in general.

(59:04):
But one is that it's not without cost to leave
your country right as bad as things are there. Sometimes
you have community, you have your culture, you have your
people around you, and picking up and leaving all that
behind definitely has an emotional, spiritual, financial, physical cost to it.

(59:24):
But the second piece also is that understanding once you're
here and once you are sort of trying to make
your way forward, that still that importance of not tying
your success, not tying your concept of did I make

(59:44):
it or did I not make it? Just to those
check marks of the American dream, right, that there's so
much more that you could that could be defined as
success for you, you know. And I say that as
the child of immigrants, child of somebody who grew up
with that, you know, who grew up hearing about you know,

(01:00:04):
what we sacrificed for you, and you know, and and
what we left behind for you and being told that
as a result of that, I had to act in
a certain way also, you know, so that it's tough,
you know that, I see the appeal of it. I've
lived overseas for well over a decade now, and I
talked to so many people in our countries who say,

(01:00:27):
I just want to I just want to go there.
I just want to go there. I just want to
go there. And I spent a lot of time counseling
them on are you sure why? You know, why do
you want to go there? Why can't you seek opportunity here?
You know? Why? Why do you have to unplug and
go over there into something that is one completely unknown,
It's a different language, it's a different place, the cost

(01:00:51):
of living is so much higher, and you're alone, you know.
So it's it's a it's a fascinating thing, you know.
There There's there's so many layers to it, between the
immigration and what happens on the home side, and then
and then the mentality that coming to the US and
chasing those metrics of the American dream have on you
have on your children. You know. Estra talks about it really,

(01:01:14):
really eloquently about her family. You know, her her dad
comes from a very very well known family in Nicaragua,
and so for him to have come to the United
States means him letting go of his own childhood dreams,
and that has a price. You know, he's somebody, he's
he's an older man now, he's in his late seventies

(01:01:35):
now and coming to realize that he wasn't able to
live out and create all the dreams that he had
as a young man because he came to the US,
you know. So, and then that gets passed on to
your children, Yeah, right, your parents, The broken dreams of
immigrant parents get passed on to their children, you know.

(01:01:56):
And it's such a fascinating conversation. And I know that.
You know, my dad's a mechanic. The truth is, my
dad was born to be a mechanic. He's a brilliant mechanic.
But in his mind, he always wanted to be an engineer.
Had he stayed in El Salvador, I think he would
have tried to become an engineer, but coming here derailed
all of that. So same thing, you know. And so
what happened when I was, you know, late high school

(01:02:17):
looking at colleges, I got pushed real hard to try
to go into engineering, which was not my jam. And
thank god I didn't give into that. But you know,
it's that it's their broken dreams getting passed on to us.
You know.

Speaker 3 (01:02:29):
Yeah, yeah, no, I you're you're speaking to the you know,
the choir, preaching the choir as they say.

Speaker 2 (01:02:36):
With that.

Speaker 3 (01:02:36):
And I think also even community is the other thing,
you know, when you touch on that.

Speaker 1 (01:02:41):
I noticed it now.

Speaker 3 (01:02:42):
I go back to Puerto Rico as an adult, and
I spent a lot of time there. My family is
blessed that we still have the house that my dad
grew up in over there. So you know, our neighbors
on that block are the their adults now, but they were,
you know, the kids that my dad grew up with,
you know, and they all grew up in that area
and they help watch maintain the house when we're not there.

Speaker 1 (01:03:01):
Right, there's this real family community thing going on there.

Speaker 3 (01:03:04):
And then even I feel the difference in my interactions
with strangers over there. There's a different warmth, there's a
different sort of just welcoming, you know, like I feel
a part of something right, And I think that is
to your point. I think when we talk about the
American dream, or like this propagandized version of it, the
materialistic version of it, I think that is why probably

(01:03:28):
so many people when they do potentially achieve it, when
they you know, receive the money, the job, the house,
or whatever it is, they still feel incredibly empty inside
because we sort of we were forgetting that real, deeper layer.
I think that that actually probably is more the dream
than in any of this other bullshit.

Speaker 2 (01:03:46):
I mean, I will tell you that that we got
to a point in our lives where we very much
achieved the American dream. You know. We we were PhDs diplomats,
living in you know, luxury housing, and you know, paid
for our kids' school, and we had like an army
between nannies and drivers and all of that. We were

(01:04:06):
very much living the American dream. And I think that's
probably the time in our lives where we have felt
the most misaligned, right that this was not the impact
we wanted to be having, This was not the necessarily
the work that was advancing what we saw as our
own legacies, you know. And again, you know, we we

(01:04:28):
saw that situation. We got to the point where we
realized this isn't what was what was going to be
right for us, you know. And it's it's a hard
thing try telling your your immigrant parents that you are
going to give up your pension job that you can
have for life that pays for housing and schooling for
your kids at the private school. But you're going to
give that up because that's not what's right for you.

(01:04:49):
That's a tough one, you know, But the truth is
it's the best thing that we could have done. It's
the best thing that we could have done. We live
in a smaller place now, but it's it's a place
that allows us and we change jobs, right, we left
that job. We live in a smaller place now, but
we're in a situation now where we have the freedom,
we have the ability to create the movement that we

(01:05:12):
want to create, to have the impact on people that
we want to have, and that for us, is how
we define success, right. That is our new dream. It's
not it's not the check marks of the American dream,
but it's our dream. Our dream was, has been and
always will be to have that positive impact to help
help people come into alignment, discover their superpowers. And that's

(01:05:33):
what that's the work that we're doing, you know. So
for for me, our situation has changed, but the value,
the impact, the feeling of our of our current life
is so much more aligned with us and I would
never go back, you know.

Speaker 3 (01:05:48):
Now that's that's beautifully said. And yeah, I I couldn't
agree with you more.

Speaker 1 (01:05:52):
I think I think a lot of the American dream
that we are taught, I.

Speaker 3 (01:05:58):
Think is based upon fees, our ego, and I think
that will only get us. But so far, I think
on the journey of happiness, you know, And I wish,
I wish it was something that we could conceptualize.

Speaker 1 (01:06:10):
To younger the younger generation a little bit more easily,
you know.

Speaker 3 (01:06:13):
I think unfortunately it's something that oftentimes you have to
experience it yourself, where you get the thing that you wanted,
only to realize that it wasn't all that, you know,
Like I pray.

Speaker 2 (01:06:23):
That sometimes we learned the hard way, you know.

Speaker 3 (01:06:24):
Yeah, unfortunately, man, I really like I try to drive
that home and and I know it's easier, you know,
said than done to recognize, you know, that what's really
important in this life. But but no, I mean, these
are obviously incredibly important conversations and all the work that
you and your wife are doing are incredibly important.

Speaker 1 (01:06:43):
So I assolute you for that and anything you want to.

Speaker 3 (01:06:46):
Want to push people to where can they check out
more of the work that you and s are doing
for sure.

Speaker 2 (01:06:50):
Yeah, we're pretty easy to find. So we have a
nice website, BacT change dot com. We have a nice
uh uh Instagram page which is b dot act dot change.
I really encourage people to take a look at our book. So,
as I mentioned, the book is called Creating Your Limitless Life.
Esther is the primary author on that. Esther Salelon with
a Z. It's available anywhere that you buy books. It's

(01:07:13):
really important for us that we have we have that,
we have the workbook that accompanies it. So there's you know,
the book is is sort of half her memoir and
narrative and then half our techniques for for purpose, alignment, legacy, resilience.
But we also have a workbook that basically walks you
through all of that as well, and we have it

(01:07:34):
in Spanish as well for a lot of our listeners,
for whom that's that's important, and it's really important for
us to say that the book, the workbook and the
Spanish workbook. If you're if you're willing to buy the
kindle version, we have it there for ninety nine cents.
That's our that's our pricing. It's not a promotional pricing.
It is the pricing that we believe in for that,
because we want to make sure that anybody who needs this,

(01:07:57):
who wants this kind of information and approach, has access
to it, which is not something that we didn't have
as kids, right, we didn't have access to this kind
of stuff, and so we want to make sure that
that's never a barrier for anyone. So that's that's us.
That's where you can find it. You can also me
personally if you want to link up. I'm most active
on LinkedIn and I'm there as doctor Paul Riveta.

Speaker 3 (01:08:17):
Amazing well, Doctor Parvetta. I appreciate you for hopping on
the show.

Speaker 1 (01:08:20):
Man.

Speaker 3 (01:08:20):
I really enjoy the conversation and definitely would love to
have you back on in the future.

Speaker 2 (01:08:25):
Oh this was tremendous.

Speaker 3 (01:08:26):
Thank you so much, man, big shots my guest this week,
doctor Paul Veda, for hopping on the show. There was
so many things I told him this I think after
the fact then and obviously you know, towards the end here,
but I really would love to have him back on
the show because I thought, you know, the conversation around
the American dream for immigrants and I think just the

(01:08:46):
American dream in general, that topic conversation is fascinating to
me as far as what that means in the current
landscape of the world that we live in today. And
you know, I'll touch on some of the takeaways you know,
c do. But first it's take a quick break and
then we'll be right back.

Speaker 1 (01:09:09):
Time come to.

Speaker 3 (01:09:16):
All right, So, as I was kind of touching on
a lot of interesting things to take away, I think
I think, you know, first thing, I'll continue that thought
that I had. I think the idea of the American dream, and.

Speaker 1 (01:09:34):
You know, it's.

Speaker 3 (01:09:37):
Being broken or it being a fallacy, particularly from the
perspective of Latinos or immigrant cultures. I think people of
color in general, and I think, you know, a lot
of people are feeling this if you don't come from money,
you know, I think this.

Speaker 1 (01:09:53):
Is a really.

Speaker 3 (01:09:56):
Interesting topic of conversation. But also even beyond, I think
the general like economic sort of by the book numbers
type thing where home ownership is nearly impossible for many
people because of how expensive it is. Demand is far
outweighing supply. All of these different things, right, Wages not

(01:10:18):
increasing with inflation at the appropriate rate, everything, Right, All
of that is a very real conversation, but I think
also I love how we leaned into the idea also
of the sort of materialistic aspect of the American dream. Right,

(01:10:41):
these sort of boxes that are meant to be checked,
the status boxes. Right of this represents how successful you
are in your life, right particular home, a particular car,
job title, whatever it might be. Right, And I think
that a lot of that narrative, obviously is really only

(01:11:05):
beneficial to a materialistic world, to corporate America, to capitalism, right,
because it gets us buying expensive things. It gets us,
you know, participating in that culture of constantly wanting the
next thing, right, and.

Speaker 1 (01:11:30):
The sort of.

Speaker 3 (01:11:33):
I guess the thing that is disappointing about it, even
if you reach it, it's an empty an empty you know,
success it's in. It's an empty goal at the end
of the day.

Speaker 1 (01:11:52):
And I talk about this a lot, right, But.

Speaker 3 (01:11:56):
I think reimagining what the American dream is supposed to be,
I think is what you know, our generation, my generation
and younger.

Speaker 1 (01:12:06):
Need to begin to do.

Speaker 3 (01:12:08):
And I think because maybe we have the privilege that
our parents didn't have, obviously, we can be a little
bit more selective, or we can be a little bit
more intentional with how we live our life, and obviously
everybody's circumstance is different. But I think when you begin
to really grasp and get on board with the idea

(01:12:31):
that the brand of your car doesn't matter, the size
of your home doesn't matter unless it actually does in
terms of, like, you know, adequate space for your family size,
the brand of clothing you wear doesn't matter.

Speaker 2 (01:12:51):
Right.

Speaker 3 (01:12:54):
Once we begin to release ourselves from those chains, I
think we begin to have more clarity on what actually
brings us real happiness, and we can then sort of
cultivate our own personal version of the American dream. And
I think that's sort of where the issue and when

(01:13:14):
he speaks about the fallacy of the American dream, what
it is, it's sort of this one size fits all.

Speaker 1 (01:13:23):
Mentality that is.

Speaker 3 (01:13:27):
Created and has been sort of propagandized by capitalism and
making us all believe that is the answer and that's
what we should be striving for, when in reality, for
many of us, for most of us, I mean probably
all of us were really being honest and have a

(01:13:47):
lot more self awareness, you know, in sort of our
fulfillment and happiness, none of that actually makes us happy. Now, granted,
money makes you happy in terms of the ability to
bring peace to your life, to not have to worry
about it, the ability to have the freedom to do
what you want to do when you feel like doing it.

(01:14:11):
That for sure brings happiness and fulfillment. But it's not again,
it's not literally the dollar amount. It's the idea of
having enough to do what you personally want to do,
and that definition is different for all of us.

Speaker 1 (01:14:26):
What I want to do might be different than what
you want to do. And I think that is the.

Speaker 3 (01:14:40):
Great message I pulled out from this, and I don't
want to I'm literally go go and do a whole
other episode about that, and it's like I have but
I'll kind of like catch myself there. But I think
just important food for thought as we're kind of all
trying to, I think, begin to unlearn the negative things
that hold us back from finding real happyiness and fulfillment.

(01:15:01):
I love the fact that he said that he downsized
with his wife and they've been happier than ever.

Speaker 1 (01:15:07):
I also loved the topic of vulnerability.

Speaker 3 (01:15:10):
I love him sharing that story about him loving to
dance and when it was he was made fun of
by a family member, he stopped participating that as a kid,
and I resonated with that a lot because it speaks
to how these little moments that we have throughout the

(01:15:33):
course of our life can completely uproot the rest of
our existence if we're not aware of them. And that's
why it's so important to do the work and to
like get to the root cause of why you might
not be feeling, you know, confident, or.

Speaker 1 (01:15:53):
Like you love yourself or whatever it is that you
struggle with, right And that's why that work is so important.

Speaker 3 (01:15:59):
And also I love when he talked about sort of
blowing up his life and.

Speaker 1 (01:16:07):
Being very intentional with.

Speaker 3 (01:16:13):
Sort of cutting certain people out of his life, even
if they were you know, lifelong friends or whatever it
might be, and really making it a point to say,
I only want to surround myself with people who champion me,
you know. And that really stuck with me because I
think I'm at a point in my life and maybe

(01:16:34):
this is I should have asked him what age that
kind of happened at for him, But I feel like
this begins to happen as you get close to thirty
and definitely in your thirties, but you begin to really
start taking inventory of people around you, of the habits
you have, right, and I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:16:55):
Something really struck me about.

Speaker 3 (01:17:02):
Him talking about surrounding yourself with people who champion you.
That really struck a nerve for me, because I think
I have sort of lived a lot of my adult

(01:17:24):
life trying to impress those around me with my accomplishments.

Speaker 1 (01:17:35):
And sort of.

Speaker 3 (01:17:38):
Saying, sort of saying, I almost like I'm forcing you
to believe in me, right, and like once I achieve this,
then they'll support me.

Speaker 1 (01:17:59):
But to his point, it should be the other way around.

Speaker 3 (01:18:03):
Right, You shouldn't have to be convincing people of your
capabilities or your talent.

Speaker 1 (01:18:07):
Of your skill.

Speaker 3 (01:18:09):
Those closest to you should be cheering you on before
seeing the results, right, just because they believe in you
and because they care for you, like they should be
your greatest supporters, regardless of the fact that maybe you
haven't achieved what you set out to do just yet,
that you don't have the tangible proof, right, and obviously

(01:18:34):
not everybody is going to believe in you, and they're
gonna people who hop on after you've achieved what you
said you were gonna do. But to his point, those
people in your inner circle should always be supporting you
from day one, even if they don't get it, they're
supporting you the person because they believe in you the person.

(01:18:55):
And that really struck struck a nerve with me, and
like really start conversation and still right now as I
talk about it, beginning to really sort of like create
this index in my mind, this rolodex, and like, I
don't know if I'm explaining that properly, but like just
assessing the people that I see on a frequent basis

(01:19:18):
and saying do they fit into that category and then
having to like have the gut check moment of like, man,
they don't.

Speaker 1 (01:19:27):
And here I am like, oh, yeah, my friend.

Speaker 3 (01:19:31):
And even as I'm somebody who's like quick to be like,
oh that's an equaintance, it's not my friend. And even
with that, there's certain people in my mind that I'm
just like, man, i've been calling you a friend.

Speaker 1 (01:19:41):
I've been.

Speaker 3 (01:19:44):
You know, sort of going out of my way to
make sure I'm a part of your life in important
moments or whatever it might be.

Speaker 1 (01:19:51):
And like.

Speaker 3 (01:19:54):
You didn't even buy one of my books when I
self published a book, right, and not because then I
don't say that as like I want your money type
of thing. I just say that as like, this is

(01:20:15):
your friend taking a risk and doing something, why wouldn't
you support them? And I'm not guilting anybody to buy
a book, but it's just these sort of benchmarks, right,

(01:20:36):
And it's like, oh, well, you know they support you
when you do certain DJ gigs and things like that.
And it's like, yeah, of course they do. When I'm
playing a gigantic show and there's free liquor and they're
all single dudes and we're in a club and they're
friends with the DJ, of course they're going to come

(01:20:59):
and support. That's so beneficial to them, right, But what
about when nobody's watching, when it's something like the book
and it's just then placing an order online just to
legitimately support when they're getting nothing out of it.

Speaker 1 (01:21:19):
Who's willing to do that for you?

Speaker 3 (01:21:21):
Because I'd be willing to do that for them.

Speaker 1 (01:21:28):
And I'm not even like I'm.

Speaker 3 (01:21:31):
Having a woman of vulnerability because I want you all
to have these honest conversations with yourself. And truthfully, I'm
not like like, oh, fuck these people, I'll never see
them again. But I can sort of see how subconsciously
I have been putting space between myself and them when

(01:21:54):
I have a free night off, I'm not running to
Bay Yo, do you guys want to go out tonight
or something.

Speaker 1 (01:22:00):
I've sort of been like, and let me.

Speaker 3 (01:22:04):
See what else is going on that I can that
I want to do before I I sort of go
that route, right, you know, I'd rather just stay home
and rest. And I think subconsciously I've been like feeling like,
all right, this just is not the level of friendship
that I'm wanting in my life or need at this

(01:22:24):
point in my life.

Speaker 1 (01:22:25):
Or deserve. I deserve more than that, right And again
it's food for thought.

Speaker 3 (01:22:35):
Again, it's not I'm not telling anybody to go out
and like tell your friends to fuck off because they're
not like supporting everything you do or whatever.

Speaker 1 (01:22:42):
It's it's it's all our own personal journey.

Speaker 3 (01:22:44):
But I think there was something again that struck a
nerve when he talked about like I only have a
place in my life for people who are gonna champion me,
and it was like, fuck, that's the next level right there,
right it that's like I'm no longer going to have

(01:23:04):
one foot in one foot out with my ideal life.
It's like, nah, I'm going all in and I'll be
lonely for a while, but like I'm this is the
elevation that needs to happen where it's like I'm only
having people in my life who celebrate me, and like
that will help me unfold the next chapter of my life,

(01:23:24):
you know, and I can't keep playing and what's comfortable.
That's sort of what came up for me, And obviously
it's easier said than done. But I don't know, man,
just that that struck a nerve and I want to
just kind of share. I guess that the inner dialogue
it's happening with me as I think about it. With
that said, thank you all so much for tuning in.

Speaker 1 (01:23:44):
I know that's a weird way to end it, but yeah,
I don't know.

Speaker 3 (01:23:49):
I just I don't want you to ever think I
have all the answers or like I'm doing things perfectly.
I'd rather just give you what I'm honestly like processing
when we talk about certain things, like I'm just figuring
this shit out as well. I just happened to be
blessed with the platform and like I'm okay with being
open about it, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:24:08):
So that's it. Other than that we're all on the
same boat here. So just a reminder, but thank y'all
so much for tuning in again.

Speaker 3 (01:24:15):
I'm so sorry we missed on Thursday Trends last week,
but I promise you we will be hitting it on
Thursday for Thursday Trends as normal. Until then, stay safe
and we will talk soon. Life as a GREENO is
a production of the micro Thura podcast Network and iHeartRadio