Jersey Girls with Debbie Gibson

Debbie Gibson joins Chelsea in-studio to talk about the one that got away, when teenage girls know more than men in suits, and what life is like in her second act. Then: Menopause has a divorcee feeling down.  A 30-something and her bestie beef with judgmental parents.  And a grieving daughter wants to get her life back. 

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Need some advice from Chelsea? Email us at [e-mail]

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Executive Producer Catherine Law

Edited & Engineered by Brad Dickert

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi, Hi, Chelsea, Hi, how are you.

Speaker 2 (00:03):
I'm great.

Speaker 3 (00:04):
You just got back from New York. I was at
the US Open. I had to go to the women's finals.
It was mandatory.

Speaker 4 (00:08):
I had to see that final match between Amasamova and Sabalanca.

Speaker 1 (00:12):
Okay, So what do you like about being there? Is
it the sports? Is it the sort of CNB scene.
It seems like a very sort of like celebria event.

Speaker 4 (00:20):
Yeah, it is more celebri here in at the US
Open than it is at like the other Grand Slams.
I think there's always celebs, but at this one is
definitely like a New York thing. So I've never been
in the Australian Open. I've never been in the French Open.
I go to Wimbledon every year for a few matches
whenever I could get there the beginning or the end.
Obviously it's better to get there to the end because

(00:40):
it becomes more competitive.

Speaker 3 (00:41):
But the US Open just has the most fun vibe really.

Speaker 4 (00:45):
First of all, it's like it's so fun because I
know a lot of tennis people, so I whoever I
get invites me, Like, you could go as a you
could buy your own ticket, or you could go as
a guest to like one of the brands there or
like I went and sat in the president's box for
this match since I was invited by somebody there.

Speaker 3 (01:02):
And then it's just like a fun vibe. Hey, they're drinking.

Speaker 4 (01:06):
They have Honeyducees, Like every Open has their signature drink.

Speaker 3 (01:09):
Like Wimbledon, it's pims Cups, which.

Speaker 2 (01:11):
Are so fun.

Speaker 4 (01:12):
And Wimbledon is very very convivial and beautiful, but a
little stiffer, you know, you've got to be a little bit,
a little bit more proper.

Speaker 3 (01:20):
I mean I'm not, but that's what they're expecting.

Speaker 4 (01:23):
And then US Open is just kind of like more
loosey goosey, Like it's just a really relaxed vibe.

Speaker 3 (01:28):
It's a fun day out.

Speaker 4 (01:30):
I went with two of my friends, Naomi and Serena
this time. I mean I've been I went with Hannah
Berner one of the matches. I went with Juliana marghy
Le's to one of the matches. But then I was
I was like, okay, you know what, I have to
go back for the finals. So I flew in for
the literally the day to go watch the finals in person.
But it's just the atmosphere, the atmosphere is just bubbling,
and I love that vibe. I'm a day person. I

(01:51):
love that like day atmosphere. And then yeah, and then
you're home at a reasonable hour and yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:59):
Yeah, you're ever gonna catch me at a sports match
of any kind. It's it's something that has a fun crowd,
you know, Like I'm not there, I don't know who's playing,
I don't know who's winning. But like I in high
school spent some time in Mexico and we would go
to the baseball games there and they would like light
rolls of paper towels on fire and like throw them
down the stands. Like it was a very crazy, fun environment.

(02:21):
So like, I'm not there to check out the sports,
but like I love it.

Speaker 4 (02:25):
You can see see I neglect you just to mention
any of the tennis. But what I do love about
the tennis is that it's a level of excellence. You know,
like if you watch the bands, it's the same guys
that get past that knock everybody out of the way.
It's the same three guys. It's Djokovic, it's Yannick Cinner,
and it's Alkoraz. They knock everybody out of their way,
so they are playing at such a high level. So
and with the girls, they're less Arena Sabalanka is very consistent,

(02:49):
she's always in the finals, but the girls are less consistent.

Speaker 3 (02:52):
Like there are great but.

Speaker 4 (02:53):
There are just like our pop stars right now are
There's such a plethora of them, from Charlie Xca to
Chapel Roan to Tailor to I mean, you know, Taylor's
been around forever, but like all of these people, Gracie Abrams,
you know, that are bubbling up. It's kind of like
analogous to tennis because there's so many young great players
that have the potential to be incredible, and they're all

(03:15):
gutting there by you know, failure failure, Like you know,
they play, they play, they play, then they get knocked out,
and then they learn how to get better and they
fix their serve or they fix whatever, or they hire
a new coach and they become more consistent.

Speaker 3 (03:27):
So it's kind of really nice. I prefer women's sports.

Speaker 4 (03:29):
I prefer to watch women's sports, so I just love
that level of competitiveness because I don't have that kind
of discipline, and it's really cool to watch.

Speaker 1 (03:41):
We have a very sweet guest today.

Speaker 3 (03:42):
Okay, oh yes, yes, she's a sweetie pie. She is
a pop star.

Speaker 4 (03:46):
She's a performer, songwriter and now published author of her
brand new memoir Eternally Electric. Please welcome Debbie Gibson. Okay,
here we are. We are very special guests. Miss miss
that's what theyways called me. Miss Debbie Gibson is today
in the studio. Thank you for coming in studio.

Speaker 2 (04:06):
So, by the way, I always want to do things
in studio and it's always being like forced upon us
to do.

Speaker 4 (04:12):
What we can do is zoom, but no themselves.

Speaker 3 (04:16):
We've done zoom ourselves.

Speaker 2 (04:18):
I love like a good old fashioned La press drip.

Speaker 3 (04:22):
You know what, you know what a zoom is good for?
Spanish lessons. That's what zooms are good for. You know
that doesn't need to be face to face. How are you?

Speaker 2 (04:30):
I'm good? Yes, I was just saying it's weird because
when I was on your E show, I feel like
I wore a version like the twenty years ago version
of the outfit I have on today. It involved like
low slung pants and I feel like.

Speaker 3 (04:43):
I wore a Fedora.

Speaker 2 (04:44):
We think it was pain.

Speaker 4 (04:45):
You always have this hat on, which is the don't
always today's just like the roots.

Speaker 2 (04:49):
You don't I need a toner, Okay, So I put
on them what.

Speaker 4 (04:52):
You should have told us, I would have brought one in.
I'm sure I have one at my house, even though
I don't have a.

Speaker 2 (04:56):
Hat, because you're the same. Because for for us girls
who want to stay blonde but are gray and want
to do the dark root and then do the blonde,
it just never comes out the same way twice, and
it's a whole.

Speaker 3 (05:07):
And I hate when my hair gets brassy. I hate that.

Speaker 2 (05:09):
That's what's happening, right, Okay, Okay, had is just copy that.

Speaker 4 (05:17):
We're here to celebrate the publication of your very first book,
which is called Eternally Electric, which is out now, and
it takes you through your childhood, which I didn't know
you were one of four girls. What an advantage that
is in life, don't you think?

Speaker 2 (05:34):
I mean? I loved I love it. And my late
mom everyone always said, oh, don't you wish you had boys?
And she was like, no, why would.

Speaker 4 (05:42):
You write, well, once you have one sex and you
don't wish for the other sex.

Speaker 2 (05:45):
She's just love my girls.

Speaker 4 (05:46):
But it's also like saying to someone like who has children,
like don't you wish you didn't have children?

Speaker 3 (05:50):
Like right in your life?

Speaker 4 (05:53):
You're not going to be like, yeah, actually I wish
I could readnag on that and not have any.

Speaker 2 (05:56):
Children, which, by the way, is also a thing with
because you don't have children, right right, And I don't
have children, right, you have children, and I'm always like, similarly,
the fictitious hypothetical children that I don't know, No, I
don't miss them, right.

Speaker 3 (06:10):
Right, exactly right, like I don't. Nobody's living.

Speaker 4 (06:13):
I mean, well, maybe certain women may be like feeling
regretful or rueful that they didn't have the child that
they want.

Speaker 2 (06:19):
Oh, well that's a big boy, he's yeah, he's you know,
the freedom in my life is not wasted on me,
and I know I feel like I feel I.

Speaker 3 (06:27):
Feel very free in life. So I'm glad to hear that.
And there you go. But talk to me about your.

Speaker 4 (06:34):
Sisters, because we have a lot of sisters. I love sisters.
I'm one of three girls in my family, so yeah,
we have three boys and three girls, so I have
both worlds to choose to have experience from. But I
always find families like that, you know, that are only girls,
and especially when there's three or more. I always am
like very attracted to that dynamic.

Speaker 2 (06:56):
I love it. And we're all radically different, yes, but
we all connect in some way. Uh huh so, and
what's the like age game? So my oldest sister, Karen's
turning sixty very very soon, which is weird to say
because she's just so like cute and little and fun
and feisty. And she just joined a sailing club, which

(07:18):
is my favorite thing.

Speaker 3 (07:19):
That's funny.

Speaker 2 (07:20):
Ar and her husband moved back. They're like one of
the most happily married couples. I know, my sister Karen
and my brother in law Jeff, which you don't hear
about often anymore, but they've been married for well over
thirty years. And then Michelle is fifty seven. I'm turning
fifty five, and then or she's so fifty eight, fifty five,
fifty one. We go like two years, three years, four years,

(07:43):
so there's like a nine year span.

Speaker 4 (07:45):
Yeah, and are you guys do you guys see each
other pretty regularly or well?

Speaker 2 (07:49):
Now the three of them are New York, New Jersey,
so it's great because when I get there, I can
see everybody.

Speaker 3 (07:54):
Yeah, how do you like living in Vegas.

Speaker 2 (07:56):
They're gonna say, how do you like living in your
Kia sport?

Speaker 3 (07:58):
Yea, well that was ask quest.

Speaker 2 (08:00):
I do have an RV. That's another story. I love
living in Vegas. I'm always telling people how great it
is to live in Vegas.

Speaker 4 (08:05):
Really tell me, because I have a trouble going to Vegas.

Speaker 2 (08:08):
But you probably never leave. Do you ever leave the strip?

Speaker 4 (08:11):
Well, I had a boyfriend who had a house in Vegas,
So then I spent some time in Vegas, which was
even more convincing that I shouldn't spend any long period day.

Speaker 2 (08:18):
And I can say this because my ex boyfriend and
I are friends now. But see, I did Vegas his
way in a house with him, and I was a
little like hmmm. And then when I moved into my
own house and started doing it my way. I can't
explain it, but I just now I love it. Oh
I've been there fifteen years.

Speaker 3 (08:33):
Oh wow?

Speaker 2 (08:34):
Yeah, yeah, I mean, and I live you know, I
love living. First of all, there's anyone who complains about
rush hour traffic in Vegas. I'm like, no, it all
moves within ten minutes. Whenever I land there on a plane.
I'm just like, oh, I can breathe. It's just it
just feels open, expansive. There's mountains. The hot weather is

(08:54):
the worst thing about it, but it's not that bad.
Every place has something. But I live not far from Hiking,
I live near Target. I'm twenty minutes from fake Paris.
I like to say, like, you can have all that
if you want it, you know, but and you go
out in Vegas, I don't a lot, like I just
have my handful of friends and there could be dinners
or a show. U huh, like I've seen I'm sure

(09:17):
you're friends with carrat Top Scott, I've seen him twice.
I don't know. I just think all comedians know each other, right, right.

Speaker 3 (09:24):
I don't know. I mean, I'm sure I've met him,
but I'm not. I don't know him at all.

Speaker 2 (09:27):
But I love like, I just love that about my
life in Vegas. I could text Donnie Osmond or Carrot
Top and go, Okay, come to your show tonight, yeah,
and I'll be treated great and right hang out like
that's my going on.

Speaker 3 (09:40):
That's it.

Speaker 2 (09:41):
I did an we'll call it a mini residency, an
eighth show run with Joey McIntyre a couple of years ago.

Speaker 4 (09:46):
The Venetia Joey wrote the opening forward for your book,
did Yeah, which was really sweet.

Speaker 2 (09:51):
Thank you. Yeah, I love him so much, so I'm yesterday.

Speaker 3 (09:54):
Oh cute. Yeah, Yea's a sweetheart.

Speaker 2 (09:56):
I love him.

Speaker 4 (09:57):
I want to talk about your like panic. I like
what you talk about in the book a lot. I
think a lot of our listeners can relate to that
not and maybe in the terms that you experienced it
because you were just starting a career at such a
young age and like blowing up. I know my bedroom
was lined with posters of Debbi Gils.

Speaker 3 (10:16):
I was obsessed, obsessed with you.

Speaker 4 (10:19):
Thank you, and to hear you talk about those years
in the book, like about how crazy it was and
how your mom was a great mamager, you know, pretty
much kind of the first momager.

Speaker 2 (10:31):
Yeah, especially in music, you know, because like Brookshields had
her mom who was a manager agent type person, and
but yeah, in music, and to be the momager of
a young pop singer, songwriter, it's the whole thing. It's
a very specific thing.

Speaker 4 (10:46):
Especially now because the landscape is so different. Like you know,
when you were coming up, it was like you and Tiffany,
those are the only two young girls that were out singing,
and now there's like this array of you know, from
Taylor Swift to Chaplerome to Charlie XX to you know,
Gracie Abrams.

Speaker 3 (11:02):
Like there's so many young people coming up right.

Speaker 2 (11:06):
Now, right, it's just its own lane now. But there
was no lane at the time, right, And people forget
there was no lane. And it had been a good
decade since Carol King and even like I think about
Linda Ronstadt and her theater crossover that had been a minute,
Like I was kind of I was at the forefront
of my generation doing it, and so the machine wasn't

(11:26):
ready for it, didn't know how to do it.

Speaker 1 (11:28):
Well, if you were writing all your own music, which
nobody else was, you know, your age was doing that
at the.

Speaker 2 (11:32):
Time, Yes, and then the men in suits had nothing
to do. Right. That's by the way, every day I
think of a line like, that's a line I wish
was in the book. It's not. It's just here on
your podcast. But like every day I wake up and
I'm like, why didn't I phrase it that way? It's
so great, it's like encapsulates. I probably could have saved
a whole paragraph by writing that sentence. But that's what

(11:53):
it is. The men in suits were used to repairing
this young girl who just stands on a stage and
sayings with than older male to write her songs because
older men really know what young girls in high school
are thinking and want to hear musically, right, it didn't
make any sense to us. And so my mom was literally,
my daughter knows how. I always channel her whenever I

(12:15):
like read excerpts from the book or do that, like
it's so visceral for me, because I was there, and
she really truly was like, she knows what this song
should sound like. And the producing to me was never
a mystery. It's I know in my head what I
want to come out of the speakers. Like when I
watch the Wham documentary, I didn't realize I think it
was our Reef Martin originally produced Careless Whisper, and George

(12:38):
Michael was like, you're making it too complicated. It's simpler,
and then he produced himself because I think ballads almost
produce themselves. So I was like, no, no, this song,
I don't need a co producer. I don't need a producer,
And they were kind of like what and I say
it in the book, but like the mumm, the suit
shoulders going up and down. I can picture it, but
it was kind of nervousness. It was like what do

(13:00):
we what do we do with this? We don't this
is new landscape. But that ended up being my first
number one, you know what the songs that wrote yeah,
the two. It was my first and my second number one,
and it put me in the Guinness Book of World Records.
And then I became the youngest and the second youngest
wow within a year, which is nuts but also shouldn't
be nuts.

Speaker 1 (13:19):
Right, Yeah, And your mom really advocated for you and
was sort of like a bulldog amongst all these like
men in suits, as you say, but it seems like
she was very ahead of her time when it came
to your panic attacks and that sort of thing of
understanding when you needed to take a step back and
not just like pushing you.

Speaker 4 (13:36):
Can you yes, yes, and talk about when that started,
like when did your panics attack start? And now obviously
we know what brought them on, but you talk about it.

Speaker 2 (13:47):
Yeah, And you know you had started to say a
minute ago, like it's different for a lot of people
in your audience, maybe because but I think like anxiety
is anxiety. Anybody who's ever experienced My heart's getting speedy
and the walls are closing in and I don't know
where my next Brett is coming from, and is this
a heart attack or an anxiety attack or like what's happening?
And back then that wasn't on the tip of everyone's tongue.

(14:09):
And if you were a young girl in show business,
you were most definitely whining if anything was, you know, stressful. Right, Yeah,
so that was that And by the way, that's what
causes further panic attacks. It's like going, no, I'm good
and finding instead of being like, this is weird, like
you weren't allowed to say so. I talk about it

(14:31):
in the book when I had this dinner. Now, you know,
we're always schmoozing in show business and we're still doing it,
and that's part of what you do. But it's weird
when you're a teenage girl and it's like, oh, you
will have a dinner with this First of all, I
didn't want to have dinners.

Speaker 4 (14:47):
Yeah, and why does anyone want to have dinner with
a teenage girl? Exactly what kind of stimuli are you
going to get from that?

Speaker 2 (14:56):
Exactly? It is that like you're the artist and you're
the comman and the label is delivering that the and
you know, my mom was there, but it was still
like she and I didn't go to dinners, like somebody
in the family cooked or somebody brought brought McDonald's home,
or like we're in the suburbs of Long Island, like
we're not doing dinners. So I was sitting there and

(15:17):
I had the inner model, like I can remember the
inner dialogue, you know, and I was really uncomfortable and
like what am I talking to about this guy about?
And I have a show in two hours and I
want to be like napping and warming up, and like
this is so weird, and this is we have to
do to get a record played, Like this is so weird.
And I just was like, oh my god, I have
to get up from the table. And by the way,
I couldn't sit in a restaurant at a table, not

(15:39):
only just because of the sense memory of it, but
I just couldn't sit still for like three years. I
mean it was really intill.

Speaker 4 (15:45):
In the book you talk about like being like with
your family and having dinner and having to get up
and walk away from the table. And at that point,
like the feelings of oh god, my family's going to
think I'm a diva, that this is all because I've
become famous and I've you know, I'm hitting it right now.
But your mom totally understood that you actually, like had
such anxiety that you could because.

Speaker 2 (16:05):
It was disruptive. And I was never one to want
negative attention. So if anything, like all I wanted was
to blend. I wanted to be one of my sisters
at that point. And by the way, I'm going to
circle back around to this, but what you were saying
about my sisters and my mom, she empowered all of us,
like it just was it was it was she was

(16:26):
ahead of her time because it wasn't even like waving
the flag for it was just like, well, of course
you can't do anything, oh right, you're a girl or whatever,
but of course, like, let's just just do what you do.
And it was all you know, who wanted a college
path and who wanted to show this path and who
wanted a fashion designer path, and everybody had a different path.
So I love love that about her. We just our

(16:46):
visions were kind of far fetched and seemingly unattainable, and
they happened, and it.

Speaker 4 (16:51):
Just happens that you ever, like at that age, like
you know, you need a guardian, you know, still like
whoever your mother has to go with you because you
can't go by yourself. Yes, it's not like going to school.
You're like going out into the real world. Are sleazy
men like you have to have a party in with you?

Speaker 2 (17:08):
Yes. And she really became my manager by default though,
because she was good at business, and she was the
one most present and like literally unfiguratively most present. And
the thing I talk about in the book is I
also remember this so vividly. I had done the Metropolitan
Opera's children's chorus for three years and then I started
doing like leads and little operas around New York, and

(17:31):
there was this opera company that wanted me, and they
were like, it's five hundred dollars for the whole run. Now,
she she, for all I know, was making five hundred
dollars a week managing this doctor's office, right, Like that
was like seemingly a lot of money. But she was like,
that just doesn't feel right because you just finished singing
in twelve languages and like you sit sing and like

(17:52):
it's just she always knew my worth yeah, and she
said to the producer like, that's not you know, and
then they tried to hire somebody else. Well, they did
hire somebody else, couldn't cut it. They called me and
it was like, can you learn the whole opera in
two days for the same five hundred dollars? And she
was like deal, and that's you know, And so she

(18:13):
just started doing that naturally, you know, she was she
was cut out for that. And so yeah, but back
to the panic attacks my favorite subject. I'm naturally an
adrenaline girl, and I'm always naturally also like a little
fragile and fatigued. It's a recipe for that. It's like
you're always in fight or fly and you're always like
easily triggered. And that's why performing suits me. And that's

(18:35):
why I could perform at the time no problem, because
my energy was heightened and so all that adrenaline felt right.
But sitting and just kind of being connected and dropped
in didn't didn't feel right.

Speaker 4 (18:48):
I see, Yeah, I think a lot of people probably
can relate to that.

Speaker 2 (18:51):
Fe Yeah, and I still get social anxiety, Like people
see me on my Instagram and I'm outgoing, but I
have a hard time leaving my house. Once I'm in
my house, I'm a little like, oh, you know the
thing we see on Instagram with the Peanuts, it's two
people out there. It's like two people out there usually
for me.

Speaker 3 (19:09):
So what is your life like now in Vegas? Like
what's your whole life like now?

Speaker 2 (19:14):
You know, it's very work centric, Like the balance is
definitely off. I'm the person who if I don't have
a rock and relationship or a social life that's cohesive,
like I have a very small amount of friends in Vegas.
Like here there's always people to see in groups of
people and things to do. But I like that about
Vegas for me right now too, because the last five
years have been rebuilding my health and my career, and honestly,

(19:36):
I can't do it with a social life a big
social life at the same time. Right, So that's been
the focus.

Speaker 4 (19:42):
Talk about rebuilding your career because I know you were
in financial trouble, right and you know, like what happened.

Speaker 2 (19:49):
You know, I left the major label. I left Atlantic
at twenty one, left millions of dollars in advance money.
And the time it took for like that kind to
catch up to me and my mom that we were
indie like. Right at the moment I left, should have
been like, we can't have a Manhattan office and I
can't be spending this on clothes, and we can't be right,

(20:12):
we can't have five employees. So we kind of kept
that party going, probably too long, and we had the
big I call it the house that pop Music built.
We had it for too long. It took too long
to sell, and like you know, and then I was
moving out and moving into the city and on my own,
and so it just everything caught up to us. Really,
that's scary, it is. And then I did Playboy. And

(20:35):
when I did Playboy, everybody was predicting, Oh, you're gonna
make this. I always let's saying on the back end.
I love saying back end, and Playboy in the same
everybody was counting the money before it came in, which
often happens in showbiz, and it just all you know
that the dollars and cents started to not work out.

Speaker 3 (20:53):
But what did they think you were going to make
money off of Playboy with?

Speaker 2 (20:56):
Well, because you get like back end sales, but they
didn't put me on a cover cover across. I didn't
show enough.

Speaker 4 (21:05):
And so it wasn't as big of a like a
presence I see as I didn't realize you get back
and when you pose for Playboy, yes, really that's actually
like the bigger you get like a yeah, you get
a nice payday, but then no, that's the big right,
or at least they tell you.

Speaker 1 (21:21):
You're gonna get the back end.

Speaker 2 (21:22):
And I had never had a mortgage in my life,
and my business managers at the time were like, yeah,
So I didn't enjoy that. I was running to keep up.
And in showbiz, you know, you know, it's like as
much or more mostly about what you say no to
because the minute you start taking those gigs, it's such
a slippery slope. And so and that was a time

(21:43):
of reality. It was a time of like five grand
to go pretend you're shopping for this house and this
or this huge apartment that you were And so I
started doing those things and that just started to feel
really bad. Oh yeah, and my health was suffering. I
couldn't work as much. So I got lined listen either
gotline disease or I had it for ages, and it

(22:05):
came out and took me over. When my life was
in disharmony, and my mom was you know, you either
in this business change with the times or you age out.
And she had her old school mentality, and there was
that whole one hundred percent and nothing's nothing mom, Like
it's a different time, like you have to there was
this I felt things changing.

Speaker 3 (22:28):
The music industry right, and that changes.

Speaker 4 (22:31):
You know.

Speaker 2 (22:32):
I always say this to my manager now, Heather, who
actually worked for and she's like solely responsible for the
rebuild that if my mom was around right now and
we're like quick, who's like, what's her at? And we
got the credit wrong on this and we're tagging and
did you invite to collab? And did we? Oh god wait,
I got to delete and start again because the timing,
my mom would have been in a constant state of

(22:55):
fight or flight, even if she had an assistant doing
things for her. You know, she just was of a
different time and she was a you wrote the song,
we're protecting now you're I'm giving away somebody created the
riff and the intro, and we're giving them a piece
of the writing. And like nobody's reading the credits anyway,
and who care, Like, just get the song out. But
she wasn't of that, you know. I remember a big

(23:17):
fight we had. It's funny now to me, and this
was like just such a poignant moment in things are transitioning.
For a while, had like a little red piano, little
baby gram that would show up on stages for the
you know, and it was like I was doing a
club in West Hollywood and it was like, I got
you that piano, and then I hear directly from the

(23:38):
booking agent because people feel they could come to me,
like your mom raked us over the calls about this piano,
and I was like, Mom, We're not making a piano
at a club in West Hollywood. It's like better to
have a keyboard and it's going direct and we don't
need the visual of that anymore. But she was trying.
You know, it had to be hard for her because
she was there for Madison Square. She got me onto

(24:01):
that stage at Madison Square Garden, and she fought for
all those things and she didn't want to let those
things go. Mmmm, you know, and that makes me emotional
to think about and talk about. So, you know, and
nobody gives anybody grace in this business. So it was credit,
you know, or credit or credit and you know to
think that, So then I talk about this in the
book too. She's I see her from agents that your

(24:24):
mom wrote a big, long emotional email again, and I'm like,
because she can't be neutral about the fact that y'all
have me as a name on the on a list
when she knows what I do. She knows what I do,
and I've always done more than people know I can do. Right,
So it's like I write and I create. I'm always like,
somebody hang a shingle for me. I have a lot

(24:44):
of incredible ideas, relevant ideas, but you know, there's a
way to go about making, you know, facilitating that. And
she she banged her fists on the table because that's
what she knew well.

Speaker 1 (24:56):
And one thing I gathered from your book was I
think this is very interesting, is having a parent who
has such a strong personality like that. You know, you
speak very glowingly of your mother, but then also talk
about some of the difficult things you went through, like
you're talking about right now. And I think right now especially,
there's a big movement of my parents were either perfect
and amazing or we're dotte and I'm cutting them off
or whatever. But I think people can be people are complicated,

(25:19):
especially parent relationships like they can be both.

Speaker 2 (25:22):
One thousand percent, like I even taught listen. I spoke
to Betty Buckley for like three days before I wrote
the chapter about her, because nobody wants Betty Buckley to
wake up and be surprised about what you wrote about
her in her book. And I love her, but she's
a complicated woman. And she and I talked about like
she was like, deb the whole thing is you had

(25:42):
this stage mother that was eventually going to turn into
mom arose like, and I was trying to fast track
you getting there to really but you were you were
protecting your mother, so you couldn't let go as an
actress in that role when she was playing her mother, right, yeah,
I think the gypsy right, yes, because you know, at
one point there's a sign that says the mother of

(26:03):
miss Gypsy Rosalie is not allowed backstage. And at one
point Heather, who worked for my mom so talk about
a complicated little triangle took over and my mom god
lover would just kind of raise little hell backstage, right,
And Heather was like, now, my job as your manager
is to keep you focused and keep that away from you.
But it's your mother, your mother hired me, so like,

(26:24):
what do we do with that? But that was the
place Betty was trying to get me to. So my
point is in the book, I speak about both sides
of my mom, the side that was a stage mother,
in the side that was absolutely not a stage mother
in the bad sense of the term. But I also
say in every soccer mom, every mom who's like I
want my kid to go to medical school or I

(26:45):
want you know whatever, the thing is like, I think
every parent is a stage parent in some way, living
a little vicariously through maybe some if their kid has
a talent that they didn't have, I just wanted or
just wanting to give them an opportunity they didn't have.

Speaker 4 (27:01):
And how did your relationship with your mom affect her
relationship with your other three sisters?

Speaker 2 (27:06):
You know, I wrote this scene in a Hallmark movie
I did where my sister Denise, who I made the
character named Denise, and I talked about like, I'm so
sorry I ruined your childhood and she was like, you
didn't ruin my child And I never blamed you for
anything like I was. I just was like, Deb's doing
what she loves to do. But I did take my

(27:30):
mom's attention away for sure. You know, it was like
it was a deb centric household. And so my younger
sister probably got the worst of it because my older
two sisters were off to college and all that, and
I think that sometimes they were like, hmm, Deb and
her concerts, and then they were like, can we get
tickets to write? You know, everybody also enjoyed it, like, yeah,

(27:52):
they all enjoyed the house and the parties and the
meeting the people and the perks. But my younger sister,
Denise was essentially like partially raised by a house keeper,
So I think she felt like she missed out on
my mom a little bit.

Speaker 4 (28:05):
That makes sense, Yeah, And how do you feel when
you reflect on your like early success and then like
struggling later on, you know, the way that your career
arc has gone, like when you think about it, which
you you know, reflect a lot on in this book,
How does how do you feel about it?

Speaker 3 (28:19):
Everything?

Speaker 2 (28:20):
I mean, like I love where I've landed now. When
I wrote the book, I was like, well, I've been
through a lot of stuff, Like I really like at
any given point I could have just you know bowed
out probably and then like the health challenges was like
a free pass to bow out because doctors had me
heading in such a different direction where I literally could

(28:41):
have been like, well, I just can't work anymore, like
if I want it, but I always I'm a survivor,
you know, and I'm a thriver. I was like, I
don't even want to just survive. I want to like
have a badass second act. See. The thing is, I
kept thinking I was in a second act, third act.
I'm now in a true second act. And all the
rest was me trying to.

Speaker 3 (29:03):
Well.

Speaker 2 (29:03):
I was trying to figure things out, and I was
doing a lot of theater because theater was a pure
thing for me. Like you go, you play a role,
you deliver, people respect it, you have a great time,
you're one of the gang. It was like a clear
cut thing that I could do. But at the same time,
like my spirit's rock and roll, and I need to
do my own thing in my own music. It was

(29:25):
on Adam Corolla Show yesterday and we were talking about this.
I said, if only at a crystal ball to no,
when no matter how fast you're dancing, no matter how
hard you're shaking the trees, it's not your time, Like
people are not embracing you. The era you came from,
whatever the thing is. It's like numerology, right, It's like
these years are going to be Jimmy Van Patton is

(29:45):
one of my best friends, and his mom Pat reads numbers,
and she basically told me right before, like the relationship
that was gonna like it was great? What was great?
And that it wasn't and was. She basically was like,
your life's gonna be it's just going to suck for
eight years?

Speaker 3 (30:01):
Did she?

Speaker 2 (30:01):
Yeah? And did and what year? And then I came
out of it. It was like up till four years
ago or five years ago, oh wow, Like the mixtape
tour kind of was one of the churning points. Dancing
with the Stars was me like, right, I'm going to
fire up the engines, which I did a little too soon,
Like I wish I was doing Dancing with the Stars
now because I could have done a lot better, but
that wasn't the point of it for me. Then it

(30:22):
was like I'm going to tell my body that I'm
not old and debilitated and sick, right, I'm just going
to do that. And I made it to like it
was like I was. I left right after Barbara Corcoran,
like third or something. I love her by the way,
she was amazing. You know what I what I love
about it is I did a lot of things I
didn't overthink. Like even when the sci fi movie moment

(30:44):
came up, I was like, I don't have a movie
career to kill, so what can I What do I
have to lose by battling a giant shark and driving
a submittage.

Speaker 1 (30:53):
Because I'm like, I love I love a cheesy shark movie.
I love the meg.

Speaker 2 (30:58):
I love weirdly at the forefront of it's show warby praise,
I remember like I was a guinea pig or pioneer,
depending on how you look at it. Right, And my
agent at the time, David Shapira Shapiro with an A,
was like, I got this little movie, and it's like
they're paying They're not paying a lot, but you know,
if you want to do it, nobody's going it's like
a cult thing. It'll be fun. And then the day

(31:21):
the trailer came out was like a half a million
hits on the trailer because a shark was eating the
Golden Gate Bridge and I was driving a submarine. I mean,
it was just it was awesome. But my point is
I've done a lot of things that make me giggle
if not taken myself that seriously. I take what I'm
supposed to take seriously seriously, and I don't take the

(31:42):
rest seriously.

Speaker 3 (31:43):
Well that's a gift right there.

Speaker 2 (31:44):
I feel like it is. And so when I look,
when I look at my life, I go, you know,
I name a chapter my way, and all the boys
have a rendition in my way. But I have done
things my way for better or worse.

Speaker 3 (31:55):
And what about your love life? How do you feel
about that?

Speaker 2 (31:59):
That's like the okay, so you might relate to what
I'm about to say. The people you want or in
my book, the person I've wanted to step up has
intercanters off in another journey, We'll say. And then the
guys that do things the right way, You're like, no,
they're just not it. Or people are so like what
I have in my life is either someone DMS me

(32:21):
and they've got like a little bit of stature or whatever,
and they have a future planned. They're like, hope you
like to travel and like to do and I'm like,
I don't know you. I mean maybe, but I'm such
an organic love person, like I have to it just
has to unfold. And I'm at the point where, like

(32:41):
I said at the beginning of this conversation, if it's
not naturally unfolding, I'm just going to keep doing what
I'm doing and that'll appear if and when it's supposed to.

Speaker 4 (32:50):
And with regard to the person that hasn't stepped up
in your life, because a lot of our listeners are
trying to navigate in or out of relationships, or well
mostly out of our relationships, or they're looking for a relationship.
But like, talk to me about how you what you decided,
how you decided to move away from that when you

(33:10):
were getting what you wanted.

Speaker 2 (33:12):
Right, Well, that's a great question. And have I fully
moved away emotionally? It's the real question, because what happened
was this person that like reappeared in my life and
I was like, oh my god, I was a thousand
percent sure. I was like, this is my person. I
never even thought I would have a person. And you know,
I'm like, I'm that sole connection person and I am

(33:35):
I guess you could say the cliche and it is
I see this person's potential or this, but it has
not happened. I had kind of sort of it was
a thing that wasn't a thing, that was a thing
that wasn't a thing. And I'm very much in touch
with this person all the time, and I have friends
that say, hey, if you really want to emotionally disconnect,
you have to get away from greatly not communicate. But

(33:57):
I'm not that person.

Speaker 3 (33:58):
So there was no singular event.

Speaker 4 (33:59):
It's just it's not a really like it's something you
desire that wasn't happening.

Speaker 2 (34:03):
Yes, and it's still it still affects me. So this
person still affects me. But I'm getting better with that
because I've decided I want this person in my life.
I want to be friends. I want to embrace the
situation he's in. But I'm trying to learn how to
not be as affected and to really accept that, Okay,

(34:27):
whatever I think could or may or may have or
may have in the past or may in the future,
what's happening right now is it's not happening. So I'm
still working with it. I'm still in the process of it.
And I shared it in the book and people close
to me were like, you sure you want to share
this because because I was well aware that it was
the scene in never been kissed and I was Drue

(34:49):
Barrymore and I was standing in the middle of that field,
and it could be like, and he's here with me
in the waiting room and we're together.

Speaker 5 (34:56):
Right.

Speaker 2 (34:56):
It could have been that from when I was writing it, right,
or could be this, which is it's not happening. And
I wanted to be vulnerable about that in the book
because first of all, nobody is all work, work work.
We all have those situations and those feelings, and I
wanted to to be okay with Okay, if it doesn't
work out, it doesn't go the way I want that,

(35:18):
That's what I'll be talking about. And like you said,
so many people are are feeling that and going through that,
and it's honestly, it's just it's not fun. It's it's
inspired endless songs, which has been great, but it's emotional
to even think, oh, I'll record these songs for my
next album and then I'll be living that. And but
that's what we're here for, and that's what artists are

(35:39):
here for. You know, that's right, But it's but it's tough. Yeah,
it's tough, and that.

Speaker 4 (35:45):
I will take a break and we'll be right back
with Debbie Gibson, not to be confused with Deborah Gibson
or what was the other pitch for you to go
by Debbie Debbie g We're just Deborah.

Speaker 1 (35:57):
Funny that you said, like, oh, that sounds like a
one hit wonder, because it absolutely but I wouldn't have
thought about qig.

Speaker 4 (36:02):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (36:04):
This week, we're looking for questions from folks who are
or used to be in the military. Your question doesn't
have to necessarily be about your work in the military,
but bonus points if it is. Please write in to
Dear Chelsea Podcast at gmail dot com.

Speaker 3 (36:21):
And we're back with Debbig. Okay, what do we got today?

Speaker 2 (36:26):
We were talking, we were talking about my love life,
and I feel like I've heard you say things too
about like you want like rendezvous in every report.

Speaker 3 (36:34):
Right some of the you, Yeah, that's what I like.

Speaker 2 (36:37):
And it doesn't turn into wanting one person to be
the person.

Speaker 3 (36:42):
If it does, then it does.

Speaker 4 (36:43):
But I don't have the pressure of something has happened
to me in my life where I just don't have
the same like desire, Like I don't have the desire
for a partner, right, I have a desire for adventure.
I need same same and when I think about it
in terms of that, I always think about like when

(37:03):
I meet someone and I like them a lot, I'll
spend more time with them, or I'll commit to a relationship.

Speaker 3 (37:08):
It's not like I can't marry it, right, I just don't.

Speaker 4 (37:11):
When I think about my life, I feel like, to me,
that feels a narrow and all the options available feel
like more of a wide open operation for me, right,
And I want to move towards a wide open operation,
not narrow I gotcha.

Speaker 2 (37:25):
I mean listen, like the reality for me. On one hand,
I love the idea of partnering up again if it's
going to enhance my life. But on the other hand,
this is what this is what I always say when
I'm in my kitchen and I'm like throwing chicken across
the living room to my docs, and I'm like, who's
partnering up in this scenario? And I'm not giving this

(37:46):
up right, right, So there is a little bit of
that too. I wake up in the middle of the night,
I turn on whatever I want exactly all that.

Speaker 4 (37:52):
Yeah, I eat food and bed disgusting things. I have
disgusting habits.

Speaker 2 (37:56):
I go, oh my god, I think I want to
go live in London next year for three months, and
you know, and so like I'm I'm beholding to nobody,
which is also awesome, but I am still a romantic
so but I still don't understand how it works because
I've never fully successfully made it work for any real
length of time without like getting sick or like all
these things that because I'm juggling too many things. Because

(38:19):
I also only and know how to do everything one way.
So if I did it, I think it would have
to be like Seasonal, where I go, all right, let's
like really spend a lot of time together these three months,
and then I'm going on tour and then maybe you
can come out and meet. Like, I don't really know
technically how it works, so I have a little bit
of that rendezvous mindset.

Speaker 1 (38:37):
I love.

Speaker 3 (38:39):
I like it, I like it.

Speaker 1 (38:43):
Well. Our first question comes from Tracy. Tracy says, dear Chelsea,
I've been a queen most of my life, but after
some career and therefore wealth downturns following a divorce and
my menopausal looks not good, I'm feeling like a loser.
I know I'm not, but feel so down and I'm
feeling jealous of my ex husband's new girlfriend. I hate

(39:03):
that about me, but I haven't been able to stop myself.
I'm especially worried that my kids might start to like
her more than me. I have to stop that immediately.
Probably need therapy about twupoor right now. Please give me
some advice. Tracy who needs her group back?

Speaker 2 (39:16):
Oh my gosh, I need it.

Speaker 3 (39:17):
I know we gotta have her. Tracy, Honey, stop that.
You can't talk to yourself like that. First of all,
you have to think of your children. You're like they're
guiding light.

Speaker 4 (39:27):
You can't start thinking that they're gonna like your husband's
ex husband's wife or girlfriend more than you like. You
have to start writing things down that you like about yourself.
You have to start getting up every single morning and
having gratitude about the fact that you're no longer married.
That's a huge victory. We have children that are healthy

(39:47):
and happy. That's a victory. You are capable. So you
lost your job, You're going through menopause. That's not the
end of the world.

Speaker 3 (39:54):
It's a reset. It's an opportunity for a reset.

Speaker 4 (39:56):
Every divorce, every like menopause, every may your life change
is an opportunity for a reset. That's how I think
of it, Like, you know, even menopause, while it's so
annoying and gross and so many bad things can happen
from it, Like that's another reason to get stronger, to
get fearcer, to work out, to be more healthy, to
be more conscient, you know, conscientious about your health, about

(40:17):
your food intake, about your alcohol intake, like all of
the things.

Speaker 3 (40:20):
But like this pity party that you're having, you can't
be a victim.

Speaker 4 (40:24):
You can't sit around and just feel like shit about yourself.
You didn't do anything wrong, and it's up to you
to get yourself out of this. So you've got it
until you can afford. First of all, you can do
better help. That's one of the sponsors of the show
that's really inexpensive therapy. But I would really start by
starting to write every morning, like ten things that you're
grateful for, and that you mix it in with the

(40:44):
things that you like about yourself as a mother, the
things that you like about yourself as a woman, the
things that you're proud of.

Speaker 3 (40:51):
Just write those things.

Speaker 4 (40:52):
Down to remind yourself of your own innate value, because
we sometimes get lost in your eyes and we forget
about are innate value. So I'm here to remind you
that you have a lot of it and you are
having amnesia.

Speaker 2 (41:06):
One thousand percent. I wrote a song called one Step
Closer with DJ Tracy Young on my latest album. It's
not new, but to you it's probably new. But there's
a line in it about love, trust and being enough,
and it's one step closer to love. And sometimes when
you step away from romantic love, you're one step closer
your self love. And also I do think, like I'll

(41:27):
echo just sometimes physical like I started boxing recently and
going to that boxing gym and being one of the
only females there, like, I'm not amazing at it, but
I found it was a way of physically getting unstuck
cause I get in that emotional ball too, Like it
just sounds like you're stuck a little bit. And sometimes

(41:49):
I think firing up the physical engines. Yeah, absolutely is.
It's a way to start. And you're around people who
are like good for you, Like go where your fan
club is, like find you find your people that are
gonna be like you said, praising you, getting it, reminding you,
remind yourself who you are, but get around the people
who remind you who you are.

Speaker 1 (42:09):
To Yeah, and just to echo the therapy thing. There
are tons of support groups online weno and like meet
other women who are in the exact same position. So
go take a look for some of those.

Speaker 2 (42:18):
Yeah, I know the women that a lot of women
are in this I don't care club. I say, be
in the care club about your self club and keep
moving forward.

Speaker 4 (42:30):
Right right, Well, I mean it's good to not care
about what others think, but it's good to it's good
to take the energy you have towards what others think
about you and invest that into yourself.

Speaker 2 (42:42):
And some say it's like surrender and relax a bit,
but not to a point where get.

Speaker 3 (42:47):
That over the I mean, you can do well.

Speaker 1 (42:51):
Our next question comes from Amy, and she is joined
by her friend Christina for moral support, and also she's
referenced in the email, so her subject line is Judgmental
parents and seven Siblings. Amy says, Dear Chelsea, I'm writing
because I could really use some guidance on how to
deal with religious parents who are very intense and judgmental,
especially when it creates tension between siblings for contacts. I

(43:12):
have seven siblings, all of us adults now, most living
in different states. We all love each other, have stayed
close and talk on the phone in the group chat regularly.
Although there have been countless examples of my parents demonstrating
the opposite of the Christian slash Catholic values they claim
to so strongly follow. The most recent offense was a
couple weeks ago my parents refuse to help my best
friend in a tough position only because she's been divorced.

(43:35):
I am too, though, lol, although I passionately disagree that
is their right, but then they continued giving their opinion.
I didn't ask for on her co parenting arrangement, which
is amazing after a lot of hard work. They claimed
it when against their beliefs and directly insulted her parenting choices.
It felt cold and unfair, and it started up a
lot of feelings for me, mainly anger. I'm no longer religious,

(43:56):
but some of my siblings still are, though not nearly
as extreme as our parents. All have different relationships with
them and with faith, and I feel stuck in the middle.
I don't want to cause drama or make anyone feel attacked,
but I also don't want to keep swallowing my frustration
and biting my tongue when something feels wrong. It was
a lot easier when my parents moved out of state
in twenty twenty following a cult leader. That's another story

(44:16):
in itself. I was like it Jesus. I would keep
the phone calls to a minimum and kept the topics light.
Just a couple months ago, they moved back after a
falling out with said cult leader. So now I can
no longer hide behind a quarterly phone call. How do
you speak up and set boundaries without alienating your family
or upsetting your siblings who are trying to keep the peace?
Amy and Christina, Hi, girls, Hi, This is our special guest,

(44:40):
Debbie Gibsons here today.

Speaker 2 (44:42):
How are you you good?

Speaker 5 (44:44):
Thank you?

Speaker 4 (44:45):
I can't believe your parents broke up with their cult leader.
That hardly ever happens.

Speaker 6 (44:49):
I know, I know it was kind of crazy. We
kind of anticipated it, but we're still shocked that it
actually happened.

Speaker 3 (44:56):
Well, I was joking.

Speaker 4 (44:57):
I mean there's a lot of breakups that happened with
cult leader, but I mean that, Yes, your parents sound
like they're very far gone. And I would not even
be able to exist in this world, in this ecosystem,
because I would would not be able to tolerate that.
So kudos to you for even being able to have
any sort of control over your emotions or outbursts or
defense of your brothers and sisters, which I think is

(45:19):
completely reasonable.

Speaker 2 (45:21):
I don't.

Speaker 3 (45:21):
I'm not a peacekeeper.

Speaker 4 (45:23):
I think it's important to express yourself, you know what
I mean. And I think it's really important to stand
up for people when they are Like the situation you
described about them insulting your sister's parenting friends. It's actually
her best friend, your friend's parent. Yeah, okay, so that's
the friend. Okay, great, Yeah, like, yeah, she's here with me,
and so what happened?

Speaker 6 (45:43):
So it ended up where it just was let go
and nothing Ever, really, I never said anything.

Speaker 3 (45:49):
What did they say? What did they say to her?

Speaker 1 (45:51):
You?

Speaker 6 (45:52):
She said, my mom said it made them feel really
uncomfortable to have my best friend and her ex husband
and their son just stay at their head. They had
a baseball tournament and they were just going to sleep
over for a night. It would have worked out really well.
They were my parents lived right there, and they said no,
that she couldn't stay with them on the basis that
she was divorced and it would be confusing for her child.

Speaker 3 (46:17):
Oh yeah, that's really stupid.

Speaker 1 (46:21):
But her, I mean, they're both amazing parents.

Speaker 6 (46:24):
They travel to you know, his travel games together and
that's the only reason they were you know together, and
their son is perfectly happy and fine.

Speaker 3 (46:34):
Of course, of course he is.

Speaker 4 (46:35):
But you're dealing with unreasonable people. I mean, your parents
just got out of a cult, so you're not going
to be able to reason with them, you know what
I mean.

Speaker 3 (46:42):
But like, and it's not your.

Speaker 4 (46:43):
Job to keep the peace, like if you don't want
to deal with that, or if you don't want to
be around them, Like where are you at? Do you
want to be with your family or do you want
what are your goals here? You want to stand up
for yourself or and your friends, but you don't want
to cause drama within the family.

Speaker 6 (46:57):
Yes, I would say that. I'm I don't typically have
a problem standing up for myself or especially when it
comes to my friends. I have a way better time
standing up for other people than I do myself. But
the problem comes when it's actually when my siblings want
to get together with my parents or like just after
that happened, my sisters wanted to go visit my mom

(47:20):
for Mother's Day and I was so upset that I
didn't want to go, and it caused some problems there, because.

Speaker 4 (47:28):
Well, you can have boundaries without making it traumatic. You
don't have to explain to everybody your reasons behind everything.
If you don't want to go because you're upset with
your parents, You're like, you could just as easily say
I have plans. Actually I have a lot of work
to do. I'm behind on this. I already made plans.
I didn't know it was Mother's Day, and I committed
to going to this. Like, you don't have to bring
people into your reasoning if that's what's going to create
the drama. You just don't have to make yourself available

(47:50):
to your family for any reason.

Speaker 3 (47:52):
You just don't have to. You don't have that responsibility.

Speaker 4 (47:54):
You have enough siblings that they could fucking pick up
the slack anyway, you know what I mean.

Speaker 6 (47:58):
Yeah, they do with having children because they all have
a thousand.

Speaker 1 (48:02):
I have zeros.

Speaker 4 (48:03):
Though it doesn't have to be some huge right. My
family thinks I'm so dramatic. I'm like, I'm not even
telling you guys anything. I'm just withdrawing. I'm withdrawing. I
don't have the stamina or with the bandwidth to deal
with this. I don't have a desire to deal with this,
and so I just removed myself from the situation, you know,
and if they ask, I explain.

Speaker 3 (48:20):
But I'm not creating drama.

Speaker 4 (48:22):
They can think I'm creating drama, but actually me showing
up would be creating more drama. So I am all
for you, like having boundaries and.

Speaker 3 (48:30):
Not explaining yourself.

Speaker 4 (48:31):
You're an adult woman, and like you know that them
saying that about your friend, Yes, that's upsetting, but like
also you kind of know what you're dealing with with them,
So don't ask them for favors like that.

Speaker 2 (48:41):
Right, I wouldn't want to. I wouldn't want to combine
your beautiful friend's family with that energy anyway. So just
like probably for the best, Yeah, I really have that,
Like I have that policy in my household where you're
just not you have religious beliefs and it's against the lgbtqia.
Plus what you're not speaking that language in my house,

(49:02):
Like it's not happening in my house. I'm not disowning
all those people because there are people even in my family,
they were raised a certain way and it's religion and
it's whatever the triggers are from whatever they went through
in childhood or whatever. But I agree with Chelsea, like
it does. You don't need to keep it all in
your airspace, you know. Just I think life's too short
to go into situations where you're you're uncomfortable, you know,

(49:25):
or you're not aligned.

Speaker 6 (49:27):
I think that's what I struggled with them almost because
it was always, you know, growing up, everyone believes the
same things right right, right off, and then when somebody
does something different.

Speaker 2 (49:36):
Right, and that is hard. You want to be one
of the gang, but you don't want to be one
of the gang at the expense of feeling like you're
betraying your friend, or if it is a day where
you're like I can deal with whatever their beliefs are,
doesn't really matter.

Speaker 4 (49:48):
Or betraying yourself like I you know, it's like you
have certain principles we all do. Like if you're a
principal person and you're like, this is I don't want
to be around this. I'm sorry, I don't agree with this.
I don't like it. It makes me feel feel bad.
I actually feel bad after being around it. Then then
you're taking care of yourself.

Speaker 6 (50:07):
Yes, I think you hit the nail on the head
there is like it's okay that I don't have No
one really has to know why I do things or like,
that's just the fact that it helps me and it
doesn't make me feel good or comfortable.

Speaker 2 (50:22):
Is enough is enough? And no is enough?

Speaker 3 (50:23):
Right?

Speaker 2 (50:25):
And your friend what's your name? The Fristina? Christina? Hi,
And I hope you don't feel Christina, take any but
exactly I was gonna say, I hope you don't feel
bad or take anything personally, because it does sound like
a whole rationale that's not in keeping with Yeah.

Speaker 7 (50:41):
No, I'm I was raised Catholic and but no, like
cult type situations, like.

Speaker 2 (50:48):
Most people don't encounter that.

Speaker 1 (50:51):
Kind of a unique how.

Speaker 6 (50:53):
Up such she was And I'm like, honey, I'm like,
it's okay.

Speaker 7 (50:57):
She's like I didn't even want to tell you because
like I felt so bad that they said these things
and made these judgments about you. And I was like, listen,
you couldn't have hit for me anyways if you wanted to,
because we've been best friends for how long, Like I
would know something was up. And I don't take that
personally because if people don't like me, people don't like
me like.

Speaker 3 (51:14):
Good, good for you, Good for you.

Speaker 6 (51:17):
The way I way I choose to parent.

Speaker 7 (51:20):
It works for me, it works for my child. And
if no one else liked that, well I'm sorry, Yeah,
it works for good don't.

Speaker 3 (51:28):
Look for you? All right, Well I think we solve
that problem. Yes, thank you so much. Have a good day, girls,
so much.

Speaker 1 (51:39):
Bye bye.

Speaker 3 (51:41):
I am so sick of religion. I cannot enough. I
am so fucking sick of it.

Speaker 1 (51:47):
Okay, should we take a little break, and well, we
have one more question to wrap up with.

Speaker 3 (51:51):
Okay, we'll be right back with Debbie Gibson and we're back. Sorry,
it's freezing here and I'm always like.

Speaker 2 (52:02):
We're rolling so hard today that we all forgot my
hoodie in the car.

Speaker 1 (52:06):
Oh, while you look cozy, this is nice. Well, our
last caller today is Katie and her subject line is
help for a grieving daughter. Dear Chelsea. I know, sad
subject line, but I know you'll have some good advice
for me. I'm a thirty six year old woman and
I recently lost my dad to a battle with breast cancer.
It's been a long two years for me because for
the last year and a half I was his full

(52:27):
time caretaker. I had to quit working and move home
with my parents to take care of him while also
trying to live life, which was nearly impossible to do.
I have zero regrets about doing this, and I'm grateful
I was able to spend so much time with him
and my family before he passed. But now I'm in
the dreaded grieving phase where I have to figure out
how to keep moving forward while also finding myself again.

Speaker 2 (52:47):
Do you have any.

Speaker 1 (52:48):
Advice to share on how you've worked through the grief
of losing a parent and tips on finding yourself again
after going through tough shit. Thanks Katie.

Speaker 3 (52:55):
Hi Katie, Say hi to Debbie Gibson. She's our special
guest today.

Speaker 1 (52:59):
Hi Katie, nice to you.

Speaker 2 (53:01):
Nice to meet you.

Speaker 4 (53:03):
I'm so sorry about your the loss of your father
and what a wonderful act of love you gave him
by being by his side for those last two years
and everything that you did for him. I mean, that's
beautiful and you should be really proud of yourself for,
like you know, going the distance with him. What I
would say is like, first of all, grieving is completely natural.

(53:23):
I can't compare it to my grieving my father because
I was so ready for him to die, So that's
a two says separate situation. But my mother, I wasn't
ready for her to die, So I can relate on
that front. And I know you're you weren't ready for
your mother to die. But I think you have to
accept that there is a state of grief and then
that's okay, Like you're okay.

Speaker 3 (53:42):
You can't fast forward your grief. That doesn't work. It
has to work through you.

Speaker 4 (53:46):
And you also have to say, like you have to
wake up every day and remember think about what your
father would want for you, because he doesn't want you
to suffer, and you have to think, like, take him
with you.

Speaker 3 (53:56):
His spirit is with you always.

Speaker 4 (53:58):
He's been such a big part of your life that
even though he's not physically here, he is spiritually a
part of you. He will always be a part of you.
And the part of like building back your life and
getting through this time is by remembering what remembering that
and remembering what he would want, and living with him
in spirit, not living for him, but living with him

(54:18):
in mind. You know, like, what would my dad want
from me? Your dad wants you to be happy. Your
dad wants you to be successful, Your dad wants you
to be selfish about certain things, you know, to make
the best life for yourself. So I wouldn't judge yourself
so much for the grief. I would just really try
to move forward with like the knowledge that this is normal,
your normal, everything's fine, everything that.

Speaker 3 (54:39):
You're feeling is fine, and that you want.

Speaker 4 (54:41):
To think about a way to live your life out loud,
in a loud, brave way that will honor your father.

Speaker 5 (54:48):
Yeah, you sound just like my therapist. Great, great advice. Yeah.
I think it's more of like accepting that as normal
and being okay with emotions because, like you know, emotions
are rough. It's very isolating right now when you don't
know other people that kind of go through the same thing.
And it was so long and such it's good Ashkenazi
jew genes is what got in though.

Speaker 4 (55:08):
You know, if you're struggling with your vulnerability and being emotional,
like first of all, or your emotions, you you should
go online and find a group of people who have
just lost their parents, go to a support group so
that you can sit there with people who are dealing
with it and like fucking let it rip, let it
out and cry, and you know, like I can see
you're about to cry right now, Just cry, let it go.

(55:31):
It's okay, you want this out, Like, if you keep
everything bottled up, it's just going to come and get
you anyway.

Speaker 5 (55:38):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (55:38):
And so is that the part that you struggled with
the most, like letting your emotions out?

Speaker 5 (55:42):
Oh for sure?

Speaker 2 (55:43):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (55:43):
Yeah. I felt super super related to your story when
you said you were like crying over trying to open
a fucking orange during your like therapy session, and I
felt I was like, if I don't go to a
therapist in six months, I'm going to be like exploding
over trying to open an orange. You know what I mean? Right,
So it felt super related to that story.

Speaker 3 (55:59):
Yeah, and you're in therapy.

Speaker 5 (56:01):
I am, but Friday is my last session because she's
actually moving away, so I'll have to find a new therapist.
But I did go to therapy, yeah, which is.

Speaker 3 (56:08):
Helpful because of your dad's dath.

Speaker 5 (56:11):
Yeah yeah, yeah, because I was like, I'm not I'm
going to completely avoid it. I'm very avoidant. I'm like
just kind of like stay busy, stay busy, and just
kind of you'll go through it and get over it.
And then I think she's helped a little bit kind
of like be cool with having emotions because I think
that's the part of like grief there, like, okay, that
is normal.

Speaker 1 (56:27):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (56:28):
And also this in vulnerability that we create when we're
not allowing ourselves to be emotional, we'll end up blocking
other relationships in your life, intimate relationships, and you know,
like you want to be vulnerable so that you're accessible.
Like I had a therapist once tell me this was
about like the girls in my life, these young girls
that say, like, as long as you can cry, you're accessible,

(56:48):
like then we can get to you.

Speaker 3 (56:49):
Yeah, and you're recoverable.

Speaker 4 (56:51):
As long as you're vulnerable enough to be emotional, then
we can make in roads in progress.

Speaker 3 (56:56):
Yes, yeah, so.

Speaker 4 (56:57):
Yeah, remember that and then focus on getting a new
therapist and talk and be really obviously you're going to
be fourth right, you're being forthright to me and right
now to all of us.

Speaker 3 (57:07):
But focus on.

Speaker 4 (57:08):
Really working through your emotions and letting it out, you know,
just really have that be your goal in your father's honor.

Speaker 5 (57:15):
No, that's that's great advice.

Speaker 4 (57:17):
Could you'd be surprised Once you do let it out,
then it's out, and it's usually doesn't last for like
you know, no, you're like holding on so tightly, so tightly,
so tightly, and for what like once you cry in
five minutes, you're like, Okay, that felt good.

Speaker 2 (57:31):
I feel better all the time these days. And like
a period of years where it didn't cry, couldn't cry, right,
and now I mean I think I cry every day.
But yeah, it's so good. But it also feels like
because you you did commit to his health in his
final what two years it was years? And how long
has it been now since he's gone eight months?

Speaker 5 (57:52):
Okay, so like it's super new.

Speaker 2 (57:56):
And I would think because that was your focus for
two years too, that even becomes smarter kind of chance
transitioning out of being that caretaker and trying to kind
of find your own rhythm in your life again. So
that's got to be really hard. So give yourself a
grace for how hard that is.

Speaker 4 (58:11):
And honor the moments where you are feeling emotional, Like
when you have a moment and you're feeling it, go
to your car, go to your room, go wherever you
can have some privacy and let it out and honor that.
Don't try to push it away, don't try to keep busy,
Like even if you're out with a group of friends, say,
and all of a sudden, you're overwhelmed with emotion.

Speaker 3 (58:29):
If you don't feel comfortable just being honest with them.

Speaker 4 (58:31):
Go outside, let it out, and then come back in
and be like, oh I got a sad email or
whatever if you don't want to share it with other people.
But don't fight that those feelings because it doesn't get
you anywhere.

Speaker 5 (58:41):
I agree, I totally agree.

Speaker 4 (58:43):
Okay, but make sure you get that therapist. Okay, make
sure you get a new one.

Speaker 5 (58:47):
I know I need a new one. Friday is my
last sash, so I'm hoping to get another.

Speaker 2 (58:51):
I have a good one. We can get you his number.
Wood old fella. I like to call him like he's old,
but he's like so channeler, He's amazing.

Speaker 3 (59:03):
Love me, do it, love it.

Speaker 5 (59:04):
Right than I really appreciate it.

Speaker 3 (59:08):
Okay, take care, bye bye bye.

Speaker 2 (59:11):
I was trying to sing right after, like because I
had chose and I had all these anniversary shows and
it was so tied to my mother and singing and grieving.
It's not a good compo.

Speaker 3 (59:22):
Is it not.

Speaker 2 (59:23):
It's like you're crying and everything's like, oh yes, your
stuff right there, and you're like, and let me sing
this song that my mom helped promote and she's gone,
and yeah it was intense.

Speaker 3 (59:33):
Yeah, very intense, I would imagine.

Speaker 2 (59:34):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (59:35):
Her book is called Eternally Electric.

Speaker 4 (59:38):
Her name is Debbie Gibson, so buy yourself a copy.

Speaker 3 (59:41):
Thank you, Debbie Gibson. So nice to see you again.

Speaker 2 (59:43):
This is so much fun. Yeah, so much fun.

Speaker 4 (59:46):
I put up new Vegas dates by the way for
next year. This year, I will be there November first
and November twenty ninth. Those are my last two dates
this year. Then I start up again January thirty first,
March seventh, April eighteenth, and May thirtieth, and tickets are
now on sale for all.

Speaker 3 (01:00:02):
Of those dates.

Speaker 1 (01:00:03):
Do you want advice from Chelsea, write into Dear Chelsea
Podcast at gmail dot com. Find full video episodes of
Dear Chelsea on YouTube by searching at Dear Chelsea pod.
Dear Chelsea is edited and engineered by Brad Dickert executive
producer Katherine law And be sure to check out our
merch at Chelseahandler dot com