March 21, 2025 • 19 mins
On today’s episode of Couples Counseling with Chelsea, a husband and wife call in to deal with a passive aggressive sister-in-law.
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Executive Producer Catherine Law
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Couples Counseling with Chelsea hand Job, where.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
We do couples counseling on all sorts of variations of friends, lovers, families.
Welcome to my office. Okay, Hi, Hi Catherine, we are doing.
Welcome to our midisode.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
Hello Chelsea. You know I like everything nugget sized you do. Indeed, Chelsea,
should we just jump right into it? Of course I
have pursuquesto.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
I have a couple of fun emails today, one follow
up and one just that I got that I thought
was good to share. Gretchen says, Hi, Chelsea, I loved
your new book so fun and entertaining. Sometimes audiobook narration
cannot do justice to its content, but I must say
you nailed it. Congratulations, Gretchen.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
So nice.
Speaker 3 (00:45):
Yeah, and that's a good reminder too, like I feel
like with personal stories and especially for comedians, like always
go audiobook.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
You know.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Yeah, I got a couple notes that I talk too
fast on this audible. Most of the notes say that
people love it and da da da, And it's also
on all the lists, so thank you for that, all
the best selling lists, audio lists. But I do want
to say that's how I fucking talk, so like, I'm
sorry that I talked fast, but if I were talking slowly,
that wouldn't really be authentically who I am.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
And also, guess what, people can play it on point
seventy five, so that's up to them.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
Oh they can slow it down. Yeah, yeah, So if
you think I talked.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
Too fast, welcome to my world. It's called I'll have
what she's having In case you haven't heard.
Speaker 3 (01:22):
Yes, And then our next follow up comes from Aspen.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
She had called in. She was a.
Speaker 3 (01:27):
Hairdresser who called in on our Low Bosworth episode. She
was in a career funk, and so she let us know.
I've actually been meaning to follow up with y'all. It
was kind of crazy. Actually, I had been in that
career slum for about a year when I emailed in.
I really love where I work, but I needed a
new challenge. Low and Chelsea really encouraged me to just
settle in and enjoy my success, and I did just
(01:49):
that for a few weeks.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
I shit you not.
Speaker 3 (01:51):
A few weeks after the chat, the women who own
my salon offered me a twenty percent ownership of the
company with a whole new set of responsibilities. Oh god, yes,
I'll profit share with the rest of the ownership team
as well. So it's safe to say my question was
answered and the universe worked its magic, and now my
next ten years are fully planned and booked.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
Thanks again, look at that and see if she had left,
she would have never gotten that exactly, and that It's
not usual that I tell people to sit where they
are and enjoy it, right. Usually I might get the
fuck out of there.
Speaker 3 (02:24):
No, but it's like, sometimes there's a little magic in
the air happening on the show.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
You do think, so sometimes there's just magic in the
air happening, So you got to really fucking look at it.
Speaker 1 (02:32):
Look up, but don't miss the rainbows. People.
Speaker 3 (02:36):
Well, our question today for our Minisoda comes from Gemma
and Cameron. They're a husband and wife. Oh good, I
love couples. Yes, Gemma rights. Dear Chelsea. My relationship with
my sister in law has always been complicated. For context,
we're both in our early thirties and my husband is
in his late thirties. Before we met, she said I
(02:56):
wasn't pretty enough for her brother. When we met, she
acted like she liked me and then went back to
not liking me. I asked her if I had done
anything wrong, and she said she was just protective of
her brother and apologized. That was ten years ago. Since then,
we've gone back and forth between having a good relationship
and not speaking at all. Sometimes she's cool and fun
to be around, and sometimes she's passive, aggressive, moody, and
(03:18):
self centered. I've tried to do everything right, but I've
always had to walk on eggshells with her. Last year,
when we both got pregnant at the same time, she
started reaching out to me regularly and we finally had
a great relationship for the first time. I was so
excited that we were on good terms and our babies
could grow up together. We hung out multiple times and
I thought her issues with me were finally in the past.
(03:38):
Then we spent a weekend with my husband's family and
things went south again. She told my husband that everyone
in her family doesn't like me or how I treat him.
I admit I can have an attitude, but nothing crazy. Nevertheless,
I texted her a long apology and assured her it
wouldn't happen again. She was understanding and seemed to forgive me,
But since then, her passive aggressive behavior has made it
obvious that she didn't forgive me. My husband had a
(03:59):
serious conversation with her about it, and she admitted that
she just doesn't like me and never has. I feel
like she's been waiting for ten years for me to
do something wrong and I finally did, and she's never
going to let it go.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
Where do I go from here? What would Chelsea do?
Speaker 4 (04:12):
Hillo?
Speaker 2 (04:12):
Jemma and Cameron Hi, Okay, So, Jemma, what was the
last infraction that you apologized for where she kind of
got what she was looking for from your version of things.
Speaker 5 (04:26):
So I didn't even know that I had done anything wrong.
This was news to me.
Speaker 4 (04:31):
But I'm a very straightforward and blunt person, and if
my husband is irritating me, I'm going to tell him
that he's irritating me. And so it was I feel
like a situation like that, but it was just in
front of her and I had a little bit of
an attitude with him and she didn't like it, and
so I apologize. I was like, you're right, Like, if
(04:52):
I made you uncomfortable, I'm very sorry, Like I did
not mean to speak badly to my husband. I'll try
to be more aware of what I'm doing and saying
kind of thing, and I thought that everything.
Speaker 5 (05:03):
Was good after that.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
Yeah, right, well it sounds like this has been like
an ongoing thing. Right, So she's touch and go hot
and cold. And then so Cameron, what was your conversation
with her after that?
Speaker 6 (05:14):
After that? And it was my sister, Well, my mom
brought it to my attention.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
First, and then you know in what way she was.
Speaker 7 (05:22):
Just like, you know, your your sister's really uncomfortable with
basically how he retreated that weekend. She tends to blow
everything up like way out of proportion, Like I didn't
even think it was. I didn't realize there was a problem.
To be honest with you, nothing offended me, So I
don't know why she was so offended. She tends to
be a little bit overprotective of me, just given how
we grew up. You know, our my mom was a
(05:44):
flight attendant and there was it was really just her
and I around a lot. So she's pretty protective. But
it goes too far oftentimes. Yeah, and so it does
get frustrating, and I've had serious conversations with her about it,
but she seems just unwilling to change, and so it's
it's making it hard to have a relationship and I
get caught in the middle because I want to have
(06:04):
a relationship with her and we want our daughters to
have a relationship. But when she's not willing to forgive
or makes all these passive aggressive comments constantly, it just
makes it really hard.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
And she told you in this last conversation that your
whole family doesn't like Gemma.
Speaker 6 (06:18):
Yeah, which is not true. It's just her trying to
be hurtful.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
Of course, it sounds very immature, like somebody who's very
I mean, it sounds like, first of.
Speaker 1 (06:26):
All, it's her problem. A how old are your kids
now they're toddlers? Okay?
Speaker 2 (06:34):
And do they have a relationship with each other, your
kids and your sister's kids.
Speaker 5 (06:38):
I mean not at the moment because we don't see them.
Speaker 6 (06:41):
We're not going to make an effort to visit.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
Them, okay.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
And what's your sister's husband's situation.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
Does he just fall in line with what she thinks
or what's that?
Speaker 5 (06:50):
Yeah, he stays out of it.
Speaker 6 (06:51):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
Well, I think it's kind of going to require a
little bit of you guys being tough. You specifically Cameron,
because of your relationship with your sister, you really have
to kind of put your foot down and like lay
it out, like, Okay, I'm not leaving my wife. This
is my family. We have a child, So this is
the way it's going to be. If you don't want
(07:17):
to be in our lives, then that's something that we're
going to have to have a conversation about. Because I'm
not leaving my wife. I don't want to have to
choose between my sister and my wife. And I don't
think you want me to have to choose between my
sister and my wife either. So this seems more like
a you problem. Gemma doesn't have an issue with you.
She has been trying for.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
Did you say ten years?
Speaker 5 (07:38):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (07:38):
Yeah, ten years on and off, going in and out
of this relationship, kind of basically being manipulated by this woman.
When she feels friendly, she's friendly, and when she doesn't,
she's not.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
Like it's not fair to you either, Gemma at all.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
And you telling your husband that he's irritating you is
very healthy in my opinion, regardless of who it's in
front of, Like that is very hell rather than being
passive aggressive you know what I mean, that's very direct.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
You're annoying me, please stop.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
So I think that it's a matter, and I don't
think you should double team her in that sense, like
I think Jemma, you should just stay out of it.
You've tried hard enough. You have to kind of let
her do her thing, and you're not going to ingratiate
yourself towards her anymore.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
You've done it, you've done it.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
You've done it, you've done it, and now she wants
to come back and say, everyone in my family doesn't
like you. So that's her strikeout. She has struck out
with you guys as a couple. So I think Cameron,
it's really up to you to be like, listen, I've
done a lot of soul searching.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
I've thought about this a lot.
Speaker 2 (08:37):
I've talked you know, if you guys want to talk
to a professional therapist about it, you can.
Speaker 1 (08:42):
But I would intimate that you have spoken to like an.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
Outside party about it and be like, this is just
so immature.
Speaker 1 (08:50):
We don't want to deal with this anymore.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
We're trying to have a beautiful life and we want
you to be a part of that life. But if
you're going to tell me you don't like my wife
and that you can't make efforts, then I don't know
where we go from here.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
You know, you kind of have to lay it on
the line that like she might lose you as a.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
Brother, whether you know whether you mean it or not,
Like it is kind of something you have to think
about because and you both have young children that could
be like spending time together and hanging out together and
developing their cousinly bond. She's missing out on all of
these opportunities by holding on to something from ten years
ago or however long she doesn't like you.
Speaker 1 (09:26):
It's just it's it's not relevant right now.
Speaker 4 (09:31):
Thank you for validating that, because that's where I've been
at for a long time, where I'm like, I just
feel like I'm done, Like there's nothing else that I
can say or do, and I haven't wanted to put
him in the middle of it, but I also feel
like that's really the only solution at this point. And
I also just wonder, like what am I supposed to
(09:52):
do after the fact, you know what I mean, Like
how am I supposed to be into the same spaces
with this person? And am I supposed to just keep
eating shit and be friendly and pretend everything's all good?
Speaker 5 (10:06):
Or should I just ignore?
Speaker 4 (10:08):
Like I just don't know because I'm I know myself
and I'm just like I'm a girl's girl. Like once
we're sitting around drinking wine together, I'm gonna pretend that
it all never happened and just be cool about it again,
because I don't want to deal with drama, Like I.
Speaker 5 (10:23):
Don't care about that.
Speaker 4 (10:25):
So I feel like I never know how to address
it because it's hard to address.
Speaker 5 (10:31):
A passive, aggressive person in the first one.
Speaker 1 (10:34):
Absolutely, absolutely, because it's dishonest.
Speaker 4 (10:36):
No, I can't have an honest conversation about it, and
that's where I just have to do it.
Speaker 3 (10:42):
Yeah, We've had this before with different callers where most
of the time, if it is your family member that's
kind of acting up toward your partner, it is sort
of like your role to go in. You understand the
family dynamic better because you grew up in it, and
like you, your family member will forgive a multitude of
quote unquote sins, where as they might not for your partner,
you know. So, Yeah, I do you think when that
(11:04):
next conversation happens, it's on you? And I think, like
Chelsea was saying, it's very immature, right, It's like I
feel like your sister's in time out right now, treater
like the toddler she's acting like. And then when it's
time to maybe come out of time out, you can
have that conversation.
Speaker 1 (11:19):
We want you in our life.
Speaker 3 (11:20):
But the boundary is you're not allowed to say mean
shit time wife.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
Yeah, you're not allowed to say mean shit or and
be passive aggressive to my wife. This is the partner
I've chosen. This is my wife. We're not getting a divorce.
I have a child with her. We are a family.
Do you want to be part of that or do
you not want to be part of that? This is
a choice on you. You get to decide. You're not
saying you're not excommunicating her, You're telling her to make
the decision. And when she does make the decision, these
(11:44):
are the boundaries that are now in place because of
her ongoing ten year behavior.
Speaker 1 (11:49):
So it's now pathological.
Speaker 2 (11:51):
She's done this over and over again and because she's
a baby, And you can have this in a conversation,
you could say it in an email. You know, you
don't have to do it immediately, but you do have
to stay up for Gemma. And in a way that's
like not threatening, but like we're just not interested in
communicating like this anymore and dealing with this. Well, we
don't want to have every family gathering Gemma leaving and
wondering what she did wrong or having to apologize for something.
(12:14):
I'm fine with the way she treats me. I love her,
I appreciate her directness. I don't see it the way
that you see it. I don't feel like I'm being
abused in my marriage, you know, all of those things,
like it's just silly, Like what's her endgame here to
get you guys to get divorced? You know you should
ask her that. Yeah, but you should ask her that. Cameron,
you should go, I'm sorry, what are you trying to do?
(12:35):
Do you think you're going to get me to get
to divorce? That's not going to happen. So there's either
you can move in to accept it. Maybe she should
talk to someone. I mean that usually sounds a little
bit patronizing when you tell someone to talk to someone,
But I think you can say that all without being patronized.
It just like we've kind of had enough, And I
also think it wouldn't be wrong to share it with
(12:55):
your family. This is how we're feeling, and it doesn't
feel good when we a family gathering, it doesn't feel
good like we're you know, and reminding them of your
togetherness so that they realize and then they can talk
amongst each other and be like, Okay, we're just gonna
have to do better, you know, hopefully is the outcome.
And I think with your parents' influence, if they're kind
(13:15):
of normal, are your parents pretty even keeled.
Speaker 1 (13:17):
Or they cool? Are they going to side with her?
Speaker 2 (13:22):
Like?
Speaker 1 (13:22):
Is that what the mind is as well?
Speaker 7 (13:24):
My mom probably will, but I mean she also listens
to me, so if I if I bring it to
her attention in a non emotional manner, I think that
she'll actually hear what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (13:34):
Yeah, And I think maybe it's an email that you
or a conversation that you have with your mom and
your sister so that they have some that they can
have a conversation about it after and where they could
come to an agreement. You're not making my life easier.
You're making my life harder. Is that what you want? Like,
you're making my life more difficult because now I have
to think about.
Speaker 1 (13:53):
Do I want to see you guys?
Speaker 7 (13:55):
Like?
Speaker 2 (13:55):
This is not fun. You guys are steering me away
from you.
Speaker 1 (13:59):
You know what I mean. Don't put any of the
blame on her.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
Put the blame on the people that are acting that
way towards her. Like, it's not their job to decide
whether or not you're being respected in your relationship. You're
not being abused your child children, you're not in danger.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
Your child is not in danger.
Speaker 2 (14:15):
Someone's saying that you're annoying or you know the way,
get over it. I'm with her, like, yeah, it's not
a problem for you, So why is it a problem
for them? And lay it down so that they feel
like they have to make a decision about this and
like come together and end it in love, you know,
like I really love you, guys. I really hope that
this conversation will change the dynamic between us. And you
(14:38):
can reiterate. She's just like take it or leave it.
She's like, I can see your family or not see
your face. It's you that has the problem with it,
so that they can't pin anything more on her.
Speaker 6 (14:47):
Yep, yeah, I agree.
Speaker 5 (14:48):
I think that's great advice. Make him do all the work.
Speaker 2 (14:52):
Yeah, well, I mean I have a situation like this
with my family, my sister in law. She's not passive aggressive,
but she's annoying. She's not passed aggressive, but her belief
system is.
Speaker 1 (15:01):
Not like my own. And I've come to the end
of my rope.
Speaker 2 (15:05):
I have extended my generosity, I have done everything that
I could to be a good sister in law and
I'm wrapped.
Speaker 1 (15:10):
I'm done.
Speaker 2 (15:11):
So like I I can relate to the situation. It's
completely different circumstances. But yeah, it's not your problem. It's
not your family. You know what I mean. I mean
it is your family, but it's not your family. You know,
you married into this family. You don't deserve to be
treated that way, especially when you love your husband.
Speaker 1 (15:27):
And especially when you are at the chill girl who's like,
I'll just get over it. You don't, yes, exactly, like
you can take this and move on. You don't need
to come to Jesus with them.
Speaker 2 (15:34):
Just act normal and be normal and consistent, like not
gotten cold. It's not fair. That's abusive. Being hot and
cold is manipulative and abusive.
Speaker 4 (15:44):
Yeah, so what do you do, Chelsea when you're around
your sister in law now?
Speaker 2 (15:48):
Because I ignore her, you ignore you ignore her. You
don't have to do anything, You don't have to play nice.
You just she's in a room and you guys are
all in a conversation.
Speaker 1 (15:58):
That's great.
Speaker 2 (15:59):
You have to engage with her one on one. You
don't have to do anything.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
Don't go out of your way. You're done doing that.
Speaker 2 (16:06):
If she wants to come to you and actually make
moves to be friendly and do, then great, reciprocate, but
don't bend over backwards for her anymore. That's what she wants,
and she knows she's got the upper hand because she's
the sister. Mm hmm, ok, agreed, So let her be
whatever she wants to be. You don't have to be
involved with her anymore until she comes around and has
(16:27):
a more sensible intention with you. And actually, and as
sincere one, you know, anyone who gets offended by people
who are direct are are They're not direct? No, it's
just that's not a threat. That's actually a shortcut, you
know what I mean. Being direct is a real shortcut
in life. So anyone who's threatened by that is like, Okay,
(16:49):
then you've got your own problems.
Speaker 4 (16:51):
Yeah, I mean I've always told myself that that I'm like,
this is.
Speaker 5 (16:55):
Her own issue, it's not me. It's just a reflection
of God. You know all that.
Speaker 4 (17:00):
But my problem is that, like I said in the letter,
like when she's being cool, she is really cool, But
then stuff like this happens, and I'm like, were you
just being fake that whole time? So you're saying like
if she's coming and being sincere, I'm like, I don't
know how to know when it.
Speaker 2 (17:16):
But now you know, now you've had ten years of
data to explain, so that even when she comes around
and she is nice, you just stay five feet back.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
You don't have to be mean.
Speaker 2 (17:28):
Yeah, okay, that's great, and just see how consistent she
can be in that, you know, and then when she's
earned your trust again and she's earned your respect, then
I hope you guys do have a great relationship and
your kids grow up together.
Speaker 1 (17:40):
But she's got the work to do, not you.
Speaker 2 (17:42):
Your husband is willing to come on here and sit
here with you and be told that it's his problem now,
So I mean that's a sign of a strong marriage.
Speaker 5 (17:51):
Yeah, yeah, perfect, that's what I like to hear.
Speaker 1 (17:54):
Yeah, that's a good husband. Mm hmmm he is.
Speaker 3 (17:57):
Will you guys follow up with us when whenever the
next sort of iteration of this comes to fruition.
Speaker 1 (18:03):
Yes, yeah, let us know how it goes, you guys. Yeah,
that's a way easier way to say that. All right,
I had a great day you guys.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
Bye bye, Do do do do do? Drum roll Catherine
please Chelsea Handler Abroad.
Speaker 1 (18:21):
Abroad is my European tour. So I'm coming to.
Speaker 2 (18:26):
Obviously find a husband abroad. I need to get the
health out of this fucking country. And it's not as
easy as you think. So I'm coming to Rekuvik, I'm
coming to Dublin. I'm coming to the UK. I'm coming
to Brussels, Paris, Belfast in May and June. I'm coming
to Oslo, Stockholm, to Copenhagen, Manchester, London.
Speaker 1 (18:48):
Glasgow, New Zurich, Vienna.
Speaker 2 (18:52):
I've never ever been to Vienna, Berlin, Barcelona and Lisbon.
Speaker 1 (18:57):
I'm coming abroad is a that sounds like fun. I'm
going to go see you abroad.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
I know I want to go see me abroad, and
there all be, there all be Upcoming Vegas dates March
twenty first, April eighteenth, July fifth, August thirtieth, November one
and twenty ninth at the Cosmopolitan of Las Vegas.
Speaker 5 (19:17):
If you'd like advice from Chelsea.
Speaker 3 (19:19):
Shoot us an email at Dear Chelsea podcast at gmail
dot com and be sure to include your phone number.
Dear Chelsea is edited and engineered by Brad Dickert executive
producer Catherine Law and be sure to check out our
merch at Chelseahandler dot com
Welcome to Couples Counseling with Chelsea hand Job, where.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
We do couples counseling on all sorts of variations of friends, lovers, families.
Welcome to my office. Okay, Hi, Hi Catherine, we are doing.
Welcome to our midisode.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
Hello Chelsea. You know I like everything nugget sized you do. Indeed, Chelsea,
should we just jump right into it? Of course I
have pursuquesto.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
I have a couple of fun emails today, one follow
up and one just that I got that I thought
was good to share. Gretchen says, Hi, Chelsea, I loved
your new book so fun and entertaining. Sometimes audiobook narration
cannot do justice to its content, but I must say
you nailed it. Congratulations, Gretchen.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
So nice.
Speaker 3 (00:45):
Yeah, and that's a good reminder too, like I feel
like with personal stories and especially for comedians, like always
go audiobook.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
You know.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Yeah, I got a couple notes that I talk too
fast on this audible. Most of the notes say that
people love it and da da da, And it's also
on all the lists, so thank you for that, all
the best selling lists, audio lists. But I do want
to say that's how I fucking talk, so like, I'm
sorry that I talked fast, but if I were talking slowly,
that wouldn't really be authentically who I am.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
And also, guess what, people can play it on point
seventy five, so that's up to them.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
Oh they can slow it down. Yeah, yeah, So if
you think I talked.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
Too fast, welcome to my world. It's called I'll have
what she's having In case you haven't heard.
Speaker 3 (01:22):
Yes, And then our next follow up comes from Aspen.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
She had called in. She was a.
Speaker 3 (01:27):
Hairdresser who called in on our Low Bosworth episode. She
was in a career funk, and so she let us know.
I've actually been meaning to follow up with y'all. It
was kind of crazy. Actually, I had been in that
career slum for about a year when I emailed in.
I really love where I work, but I needed a
new challenge. Low and Chelsea really encouraged me to just
settle in and enjoy my success, and I did just
(01:49):
that for a few weeks.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
I shit you not.
Speaker 3 (01:51):
A few weeks after the chat, the women who own
my salon offered me a twenty percent ownership of the
company with a whole new set of responsibilities. Oh god, yes,
I'll profit share with the rest of the ownership team
as well. So it's safe to say my question was
answered and the universe worked its magic, and now my
next ten years are fully planned and booked.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
Thanks again, look at that and see if she had left,
she would have never gotten that exactly, and that It's
not usual that I tell people to sit where they
are and enjoy it, right. Usually I might get the
fuck out of there.
Speaker 3 (02:24):
No, but it's like, sometimes there's a little magic in
the air happening on the show.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
You do think, so sometimes there's just magic in the
air happening, So you got to really fucking look at it.
Speaker 1 (02:32):
Look up, but don't miss the rainbows. People.
Speaker 3 (02:36):
Well, our question today for our Minisoda comes from Gemma
and Cameron. They're a husband and wife. Oh good, I
love couples. Yes, Gemma rights. Dear Chelsea. My relationship with
my sister in law has always been complicated. For context,
we're both in our early thirties and my husband is
in his late thirties. Before we met, she said I
(02:56):
wasn't pretty enough for her brother. When we met, she
acted like she liked me and then went back to
not liking me. I asked her if I had done
anything wrong, and she said she was just protective of
her brother and apologized. That was ten years ago. Since then,
we've gone back and forth between having a good relationship
and not speaking at all. Sometimes she's cool and fun
to be around, and sometimes she's passive, aggressive, moody, and
(03:18):
self centered. I've tried to do everything right, but I've
always had to walk on eggshells with her. Last year,
when we both got pregnant at the same time, she
started reaching out to me regularly and we finally had
a great relationship for the first time. I was so
excited that we were on good terms and our babies
could grow up together. We hung out multiple times and
I thought her issues with me were finally in the past.
(03:38):
Then we spent a weekend with my husband's family and
things went south again. She told my husband that everyone
in her family doesn't like me or how I treat him.
I admit I can have an attitude, but nothing crazy. Nevertheless,
I texted her a long apology and assured her it
wouldn't happen again. She was understanding and seemed to forgive me,
But since then, her passive aggressive behavior has made it
obvious that she didn't forgive me. My husband had a
(03:59):
serious conversation with her about it, and she admitted that
she just doesn't like me and never has. I feel
like she's been waiting for ten years for me to
do something wrong and I finally did, and she's never
going to let it go.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
Where do I go from here? What would Chelsea do?
Speaker 4 (04:12):
Hillo?
Speaker 2 (04:12):
Jemma and Cameron Hi, Okay, So, Jemma, what was the
last infraction that you apologized for where she kind of
got what she was looking for from your version of things.
Speaker 5 (04:26):
So I didn't even know that I had done anything wrong.
This was news to me.
Speaker 4 (04:31):
But I'm a very straightforward and blunt person, and if
my husband is irritating me, I'm going to tell him
that he's irritating me. And so it was I feel
like a situation like that, but it was just in
front of her and I had a little bit of
an attitude with him and she didn't like it, and
so I apologize. I was like, you're right, Like, if
(04:52):
I made you uncomfortable, I'm very sorry, Like I did
not mean to speak badly to my husband. I'll try
to be more aware of what I'm doing and saying
kind of thing, and I thought that everything.
Speaker 5 (05:03):
Was good after that.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
Yeah, right, well it sounds like this has been like
an ongoing thing. Right, So she's touch and go hot
and cold. And then so Cameron, what was your conversation
with her after that?
Speaker 6 (05:14):
After that? And it was my sister, Well, my mom
brought it to my attention.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
First, and then you know in what way she was.
Speaker 7 (05:22):
Just like, you know, your your sister's really uncomfortable with
basically how he retreated that weekend. She tends to blow
everything up like way out of proportion, Like I didn't
even think it was. I didn't realize there was a problem.
To be honest with you, nothing offended me, So I
don't know why she was so offended. She tends to
be a little bit overprotective of me, just given how
we grew up. You know, our my mom was a
(05:44):
flight attendant and there was it was really just her
and I around a lot. So she's pretty protective. But
it goes too far oftentimes. Yeah, and so it does
get frustrating, and I've had serious conversations with her about it,
but she seems just unwilling to change, and so it's
it's making it hard to have a relationship and I
get caught in the middle because I want to have
(06:04):
a relationship with her and we want our daughters to
have a relationship. But when she's not willing to forgive
or makes all these passive aggressive comments constantly, it just
makes it really hard.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
And she told you in this last conversation that your
whole family doesn't like Gemma.
Speaker 6 (06:18):
Yeah, which is not true. It's just her trying to
be hurtful.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
Of course, it sounds very immature, like somebody who's very
I mean, it sounds like, first of.
Speaker 1 (06:26):
All, it's her problem. A how old are your kids
now they're toddlers? Okay?
Speaker 2 (06:34):
And do they have a relationship with each other, your
kids and your sister's kids.
Speaker 5 (06:38):
I mean not at the moment because we don't see them.
Speaker 6 (06:41):
We're not going to make an effort to visit.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
Them, okay.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
And what's your sister's husband's situation.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
Does he just fall in line with what she thinks
or what's that?
Speaker 5 (06:50):
Yeah, he stays out of it.
Speaker 6 (06:51):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
Well, I think it's kind of going to require a
little bit of you guys being tough. You specifically Cameron,
because of your relationship with your sister, you really have
to kind of put your foot down and like lay
it out, like, Okay, I'm not leaving my wife. This
is my family. We have a child, So this is
the way it's going to be. If you don't want
(07:17):
to be in our lives, then that's something that we're
going to have to have a conversation about. Because I'm
not leaving my wife. I don't want to have to
choose between my sister and my wife. And I don't
think you want me to have to choose between my
sister and my wife either. So this seems more like
a you problem. Gemma doesn't have an issue with you.
She has been trying for.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
Did you say ten years?
Speaker 5 (07:38):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (07:38):
Yeah, ten years on and off, going in and out
of this relationship, kind of basically being manipulated by this woman.
When she feels friendly, she's friendly, and when she doesn't,
she's not.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
Like it's not fair to you either, Gemma at all.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
And you telling your husband that he's irritating you is
very healthy in my opinion, regardless of who it's in
front of, Like that is very hell rather than being
passive aggressive you know what I mean, that's very direct.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
You're annoying me, please stop.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
So I think that it's a matter, and I don't
think you should double team her in that sense, like
I think Jemma, you should just stay out of it.
You've tried hard enough. You have to kind of let
her do her thing, and you're not going to ingratiate
yourself towards her anymore.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
You've done it, you've done it.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
You've done it, you've done it, and now she wants
to come back and say, everyone in my family doesn't
like you. So that's her strikeout. She has struck out
with you guys as a couple. So I think Cameron,
it's really up to you to be like, listen, I've
done a lot of soul searching.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
I've thought about this a lot.
Speaker 2 (08:37):
I've talked you know, if you guys want to talk
to a professional therapist about it, you can.
Speaker 1 (08:42):
But I would intimate that you have spoken to like an.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
Outside party about it and be like, this is just
so immature.
Speaker 1 (08:50):
We don't want to deal with this anymore.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
We're trying to have a beautiful life and we want
you to be a part of that life. But if
you're going to tell me you don't like my wife
and that you can't make efforts, then I don't know
where we go from here.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
You know, you kind of have to lay it on
the line that like she might lose you as a.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
Brother, whether you know whether you mean it or not,
Like it is kind of something you have to think
about because and you both have young children that could
be like spending time together and hanging out together and
developing their cousinly bond. She's missing out on all of
these opportunities by holding on to something from ten years
ago or however long she doesn't like you.
Speaker 1 (09:26):
It's just it's it's not relevant right now.
Speaker 4 (09:31):
Thank you for validating that, because that's where I've been
at for a long time, where I'm like, I just
feel like I'm done, Like there's nothing else that I
can say or do, and I haven't wanted to put
him in the middle of it, but I also feel
like that's really the only solution at this point. And
I also just wonder, like what am I supposed to
(09:52):
do after the fact, you know what I mean, Like
how am I supposed to be into the same spaces
with this person? And am I supposed to just keep
eating shit and be friendly and pretend everything's all good?
Speaker 5 (10:06):
Or should I just ignore?
Speaker 4 (10:08):
Like I just don't know because I'm I know myself
and I'm just like I'm a girl's girl. Like once
we're sitting around drinking wine together, I'm gonna pretend that
it all never happened and just be cool about it again,
because I don't want to deal with drama, Like I.
Speaker 5 (10:23):
Don't care about that.
Speaker 4 (10:25):
So I feel like I never know how to address
it because it's hard to address.
Speaker 5 (10:31):
A passive, aggressive person in the first one.
Speaker 1 (10:34):
Absolutely, absolutely, because it's dishonest.
Speaker 4 (10:36):
No, I can't have an honest conversation about it, and
that's where I just have to do it.
Speaker 3 (10:42):
Yeah, We've had this before with different callers where most
of the time, if it is your family member that's
kind of acting up toward your partner, it is sort
of like your role to go in. You understand the
family dynamic better because you grew up in it, and
like you, your family member will forgive a multitude of
quote unquote sins, where as they might not for your partner,
you know. So, Yeah, I do you think when that
(11:04):
next conversation happens, it's on you? And I think, like
Chelsea was saying, it's very immature, right, It's like I
feel like your sister's in time out right now, treater
like the toddler she's acting like. And then when it's
time to maybe come out of time out, you can
have that conversation.
Speaker 1 (11:19):
We want you in our life.
Speaker 3 (11:20):
But the boundary is you're not allowed to say mean
shit time wife.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
Yeah, you're not allowed to say mean shit or and
be passive aggressive to my wife. This is the partner
I've chosen. This is my wife. We're not getting a divorce.
I have a child with her. We are a family.
Do you want to be part of that or do
you not want to be part of that? This is
a choice on you. You get to decide. You're not
saying you're not excommunicating her, You're telling her to make
the decision. And when she does make the decision, these
(11:44):
are the boundaries that are now in place because of
her ongoing ten year behavior.
Speaker 1 (11:49):
So it's now pathological.
Speaker 2 (11:51):
She's done this over and over again and because she's
a baby, And you can have this in a conversation,
you could say it in an email. You know, you
don't have to do it immediately, but you do have
to stay up for Gemma. And in a way that's
like not threatening, but like we're just not interested in
communicating like this anymore and dealing with this. Well, we
don't want to have every family gathering Gemma leaving and
wondering what she did wrong or having to apologize for something.
(12:14):
I'm fine with the way she treats me. I love her,
I appreciate her directness. I don't see it the way
that you see it. I don't feel like I'm being
abused in my marriage, you know, all of those things,
like it's just silly, Like what's her endgame here to
get you guys to get divorced? You know you should
ask her that. Yeah, but you should ask her that. Cameron,
you should go, I'm sorry, what are you trying to do?
(12:35):
Do you think you're going to get me to get
to divorce? That's not going to happen. So there's either
you can move in to accept it. Maybe she should
talk to someone. I mean that usually sounds a little
bit patronizing when you tell someone to talk to someone,
But I think you can say that all without being patronized.
It just like we've kind of had enough, And I
also think it wouldn't be wrong to share it with
(12:55):
your family. This is how we're feeling, and it doesn't
feel good when we a family gathering, it doesn't feel
good like we're you know, and reminding them of your
togetherness so that they realize and then they can talk
amongst each other and be like, Okay, we're just gonna
have to do better, you know, hopefully is the outcome.
And I think with your parents' influence, if they're kind
(13:15):
of normal, are your parents pretty even keeled.
Speaker 1 (13:17):
Or they cool? Are they going to side with her?
Speaker 2 (13:22):
Like?
Speaker 1 (13:22):
Is that what the mind is as well?
Speaker 7 (13:24):
My mom probably will, but I mean she also listens
to me, so if I if I bring it to
her attention in a non emotional manner, I think that
she'll actually hear what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (13:34):
Yeah, And I think maybe it's an email that you
or a conversation that you have with your mom and
your sister so that they have some that they can
have a conversation about it after and where they could
come to an agreement. You're not making my life easier.
You're making my life harder. Is that what you want? Like,
you're making my life more difficult because now I have
to think about.
Speaker 1 (13:53):
Do I want to see you guys?
Speaker 7 (13:55):
Like?
Speaker 2 (13:55):
This is not fun. You guys are steering me away
from you.
Speaker 1 (13:59):
You know what I mean. Don't put any of the
blame on her.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
Put the blame on the people that are acting that
way towards her. Like, it's not their job to decide
whether or not you're being respected in your relationship. You're
not being abused your child children, you're not in danger.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
Your child is not in danger.
Speaker 2 (14:15):
Someone's saying that you're annoying or you know the way,
get over it. I'm with her, like, yeah, it's not
a problem for you, So why is it a problem
for them? And lay it down so that they feel
like they have to make a decision about this and
like come together and end it in love, you know,
like I really love you, guys. I really hope that
this conversation will change the dynamic between us. And you
(14:38):
can reiterate. She's just like take it or leave it.
She's like, I can see your family or not see
your face. It's you that has the problem with it,
so that they can't pin anything more on her.
Speaker 6 (14:47):
Yep, yeah, I agree.
Speaker 5 (14:48):
I think that's great advice. Make him do all the work.
Speaker 2 (14:52):
Yeah, well, I mean I have a situation like this
with my family, my sister in law. She's not passive aggressive,
but she's annoying. She's not passed aggressive, but her belief
system is.
Speaker 1 (15:01):
Not like my own. And I've come to the end
of my rope.
Speaker 2 (15:05):
I have extended my generosity, I have done everything that
I could to be a good sister in law and
I'm wrapped.
Speaker 1 (15:10):
I'm done.
Speaker 2 (15:11):
So like I I can relate to the situation. It's
completely different circumstances. But yeah, it's not your problem. It's
not your family. You know what I mean. I mean
it is your family, but it's not your family. You know,
you married into this family. You don't deserve to be
treated that way, especially when you love your husband.
Speaker 1 (15:27):
And especially when you are at the chill girl who's like,
I'll just get over it. You don't, yes, exactly, like
you can take this and move on. You don't need
to come to Jesus with them.
Speaker 2 (15:34):
Just act normal and be normal and consistent, like not
gotten cold. It's not fair. That's abusive. Being hot and
cold is manipulative and abusive.
Speaker 4 (15:44):
Yeah, so what do you do, Chelsea when you're around
your sister in law now?
Speaker 2 (15:48):
Because I ignore her, you ignore you ignore her. You
don't have to do anything, You don't have to play nice.
You just she's in a room and you guys are
all in a conversation.
Speaker 1 (15:58):
That's great.
Speaker 2 (15:59):
You have to engage with her one on one. You
don't have to do anything.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
Don't go out of your way. You're done doing that.
Speaker 2 (16:06):
If she wants to come to you and actually make
moves to be friendly and do, then great, reciprocate, but
don't bend over backwards for her anymore. That's what she wants,
and she knows she's got the upper hand because she's
the sister. Mm hmm, ok, agreed, So let her be
whatever she wants to be. You don't have to be
involved with her anymore until she comes around and has
(16:27):
a more sensible intention with you. And actually, and as
sincere one, you know, anyone who gets offended by people
who are direct are are They're not direct? No, it's
just that's not a threat. That's actually a shortcut, you
know what I mean. Being direct is a real shortcut
in life. So anyone who's threatened by that is like, Okay,
(16:49):
then you've got your own problems.
Speaker 4 (16:51):
Yeah, I mean I've always told myself that that I'm like,
this is.
Speaker 5 (16:55):
Her own issue, it's not me. It's just a reflection
of God. You know all that.
Speaker 4 (17:00):
But my problem is that, like I said in the letter,
like when she's being cool, she is really cool, But
then stuff like this happens, and I'm like, were you
just being fake that whole time? So you're saying like
if she's coming and being sincere, I'm like, I don't
know how to know when it.
Speaker 2 (17:16):
But now you know, now you've had ten years of
data to explain, so that even when she comes around
and she is nice, you just stay five feet back.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
You don't have to be mean.
Speaker 2 (17:28):
Yeah, okay, that's great, and just see how consistent she
can be in that, you know, and then when she's
earned your trust again and she's earned your respect, then
I hope you guys do have a great relationship and
your kids grow up together.
Speaker 1 (17:40):
But she's got the work to do, not you.
Speaker 2 (17:42):
Your husband is willing to come on here and sit
here with you and be told that it's his problem now,
So I mean that's a sign of a strong marriage.
Speaker 5 (17:51):
Yeah, yeah, perfect, that's what I like to hear.
Speaker 1 (17:54):
Yeah, that's a good husband. Mm hmmm he is.
Speaker 3 (17:57):
Will you guys follow up with us when whenever the
next sort of iteration of this comes to fruition.
Speaker 1 (18:03):
Yes, yeah, let us know how it goes, you guys. Yeah,
that's a way easier way to say that. All right,
I had a great day you guys.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
Bye bye, Do do do do do? Drum roll Catherine
please Chelsea Handler Abroad.
Speaker 1 (18:21):
Abroad is my European tour. So I'm coming to.
Speaker 2 (18:26):
Obviously find a husband abroad. I need to get the
health out of this fucking country. And it's not as
easy as you think. So I'm coming to Rekuvik, I'm
coming to Dublin. I'm coming to the UK. I'm coming
to Brussels, Paris, Belfast in May and June. I'm coming
to Oslo, Stockholm, to Copenhagen, Manchester, London.
Speaker 1 (18:48):
Glasgow, New Zurich, Vienna.
Speaker 2 (18:52):
I've never ever been to Vienna, Berlin, Barcelona and Lisbon.
Speaker 1 (18:57):
I'm coming abroad is a that sounds like fun. I'm
going to go see you abroad.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
I know I want to go see me abroad, and
there all be, there all be Upcoming Vegas dates March
twenty first, April eighteenth, July fifth, August thirtieth, November one
and twenty ninth at the Cosmopolitan of Las Vegas.
Speaker 5 (19:17):
If you'd like advice from Chelsea.
Speaker 3 (19:19):
Shoot us an email at Dear Chelsea podcast at gmail
dot com and be sure to include your phone number.
Dear Chelsea is edited and engineered by Brad Dickert executive
producer Catherine Law and be sure to check out our
merch at Chelseahandler dot com
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