Detransition, Lana (feat. Shon Faye)

• Writer & Lana expert Shon Faye joins Fran & Rose for a trans reading of Lana's canon
• The conversation with Shon was recorded pre Did You Know That There's a Tunnel Under Ocean Blvd, so Fran & Rose also share their thoughts on Lana's latest
• And they were both seated (separately) for Scream!!

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:03):
Wasn't another one of her boyfriends a cop. That's very dregs,
that's very dress. She's she any non not my name, yo,
yo yo? What is your childhood brother? Yo? Going down

(00:26):
the floor like j So. Welcome to Like a Virgin,
the show where we give yesterday's pop culture today's takes.
I'm Rose dam you and I'm Fran Toronto and we

(00:46):
just got off of a very exciting Google meeting talking
about our live show happening in Brooklyn this weekend. Oh
my god, I am so stoked. We're pulling this together
very last minute, and that is going to be the vibe.
It's going to be the essence um Peyton Dicks, the
essence of beauty. Payton Dix, famed bisexual, has famously never

(01:09):
seen a single episode of Sex in the City or
but she has seen the entirety of ants like that
which is fucked us, which is so fucked up. We
will be discussing. But anyways, this weekend, Saturday, only a
one night event, we will be live viewing the bisexual
episode of Sex and the City, which is one of
some would say the most problematic episode of of Sex

(01:33):
in the City. Not me, I would definitely put it
in the top three top four most problematic episodes. Well,
we'll debate, we'll debate. Well, we'll debate if you're in
New York City. If you're in New York City, you
will have to be there to see how that debate goes.
Um And there are tickets now live on both of
our instagrams on the Like a Virgin burner account at

(01:54):
Like a Virgin for twenty sixty nine. They are cheaper
if you buy the minut advance versus at the door,
so look at them now. We also will have some
merch at the show to buy, so women to be shopping. Bradshaw.
And if you are a diva who likes to sit,
please come early. Okay, seating there will be limited, limited seating.

(02:19):
And it's small venue. It's a very cozy, intimate venue.
That's how we like it. We like intimate venues the
way Madonna what wait, what tour did she go to
where she had the intimate, the intimate the Madam concerts? Yeah,
that her Madam. It will it will be this era,
yeah with the show. That's yeah, this is our this
is our weekends with adele Um. But it's only one weekend.

(02:42):
Come this Saturday. It's gonna be so much fun. And also,
you know, while we're doing some housekeeping, make sure that
you subscribe to our patreon for weekly exclusive bonus episodes.
But yeah, without all out of the way, how the
hell are you fran so good? Rose? Um? I you know,
pulled myself out of a nap so that I could

(03:04):
go see a screening of Scream six at the AMC
Village and uh it was. It was good. Yeah, I
saw it last week as well, so we um and
we I didn't I thought you weren't going to see it.
I know our periods are sinked. Well, I told you
that I didn't want to. I only would do it
if I could put it on my AMCs stubbs List

(03:26):
rewards member whatever the fuck it's called, um because I
actually haven't used my membership in like a month and
a half and so, you know, just trying to be
cost effective. But um, I I still got to sit
in my recliner chairs. I was very happy with my
viewing experience. What did you think of the beginning? The
first five minutes I think were a bit of a doozy. Yeah,
I really liked the the cold open um. It was

(03:50):
a sort of a departure for a screen movie, and
that not just one person was killed. There was not
not really a fake out. It was more of like
a like a narrative moment like this professor gets killed
and then the killers get killed. So I thought that
was interesting. And you know, it's trying to do like
what Scream does best, which is this like meta commentary

(04:11):
on horror, and as the Scream movies have progressed, they
have more become a meta commentary on Scream movies than
on horror in general, unfortunately. I mean overall, I really
liked the movie up until the killer reveal, and then
I thought it was very dumb. Okay, so I mean

(04:32):
spoiler alerts vision, why didn't you like the killer reveal
because I felt it was anticlimactic. Yeah, it was sort
of a mix of things Scream has done before, where
it's you know, a family member of a past killer
or someone who's really obsessed with the whole Scream ghost
Faces narrative, and it did both, and I thought the

(04:57):
reveal was one that was like far too easy to predict,
like obviously as soon as that as um Dylan McDermott show,
where is that Dermott moroney, I can never, I can never.
It's it's Dermott moment, it's the other one. Okay. As
soon as he showed up, I was like, okay, he's
the killer. Yeah. And and then obviously also like the

(05:20):
one odd guy out in their group who's like, of course,
but I bet you all think I'm the Killer's like okay,
well obviously he's the killer too, And they just did that.
They just did that as well. And the yeah, where
it was like the obvious one was the one. It
was just so unsatisfying. And I also felt like their
justification for why they were the killers was super lame.

(05:41):
She was reaching your honor. Yeah. Also like why did
it take place in New York when it was entirely
shot in Montreal? It looked like it was shot in Montreal.
And also I mean, I guess they were there because
Jennet Ortega was going to NYU or whatever. But here's what, Okay,
I lead with the negatives because had a ball and

(06:02):
I enjoyed this scream more too. I did. I did too.
I thought this scream was so much better than the
last one and um and so big improvement they gave
that main girly some acting lessons because she was rotted
in the last Yeah, Melissa Guero definitely is like giving
final doll um. And I actually thought they were. I

(06:24):
thought for a second that they really were going to
kill her because they had alluded to it, and because
I was like, oh, if they made Jenna Ortega the
true protagonist of this franchise, that actually would be such
a serve. I'm not gonna lie, but well, I think
that's what's going to happen because and I think that
in the next movie, Melissa of this movie is going

(06:46):
to become the killer. Like I think she's snapped. She's
she's gonna be the Scream. She's gonna be the Scream.
She's gonna be screams screaming to scream. Yeah, so as
she as you know, the killer is famously called Scream, Scream,
Scream yeah. Um. So Anyways, the thing for me is like,
there should have been more hijinks with Scream, Like I

(07:09):
wanted more. I wanted Scream in New York. I wanted
Scream getting a hot dog. I wanted to know. I
wanted Scream getting to like, yeah, going to see a
Hamilton matinee. Scream in Central Park. Yes, well that crying
on the subway. That's the thing is, none of that

(07:29):
happened because it wasn't actually shot in New York and
the most and I thought that some of my favorite
parts of the film were the ones were it tried
to approximate being in New York. Like the scene on
the subway was genuinely so good and thrilling. Um. The
scene in the bodega was also really amazing. And I
don't understand why, if you're gonna do it in New York,

(07:51):
just fucking shoot it in New York. Yeah. I didn't
get that either, because yeah, but I am. I love that.
I love those scenes specific those are definitely two of
my favorite scenes as well. I thought that in those
scenes and throughout the movie, the relationship built on the
two sisters was so much stronger. So towards the end
when they were like fending off you know, the screams,

(08:12):
I was just like, I was, just like work Diva's
like they're gonna be like, you know, a ragtag duo
of like you know, murdery girls, and like I was,
I'm kind of like I want that form of the franchise.
Kirby's return was pretty gaggy and funny. I love that
she died like three times, but I hate that she's
a cop because I love I love Herbie, and she

(08:35):
is one of the high points of Scream four, which
I do think is one of the better films having
rewatched it recently. But it just sucks they made her
a cop. Yeah, and also it sucks that they put
her in that wig because she they were like, I'm thirty,
and I was like, honey, with that wig, you look
like you're thirty. Yeah, Mason, Mason Gooding Man that you are.

(09:00):
Oh god god. I mean, first of all, it's funny
that he's playing a college freshman when he's about, you know,
thirty two. Yeah, he looks like a college freshman. And
he also looks like a Chad, which I love he does.
He's so hot it's insane. It makes no Okay. That's
another complaint of mine is that I think that the

(09:23):
tension m M, no, what am I trying to say?
I think that I would have loved more of the
b plot, Like I felt like the romance between him
and Jenna Ortega like could have had some like little
like you know, college hijinks, twisty something like I wish
I had seen more of Jenna Ortega's life and its

(09:46):
relation and the stakes, like in you know, his survival,
Mason Goodding Survival. I would have liked that, specifically to
the end of making us believe that he could be
the killer. Yeah, that's what I wanted more of, was
more breadcrumbs of faking us out, because that's the thing.

(10:07):
It's like, the reveal of who Scream was was not
only disappointing because it was lame, but because there wasn't
a ton of mystery. I wasn't. I didn't spend the
movie trying to guess who Scream was, and I should
have been. There should have been people being sus and
they really weren't. Although I guess like the main Girlie's

(10:30):
boyfriend was supposed to be the biggest fake out just
because he's like some random dude, but even that wasn't
like very compelling, and there was no moment where it
was sort of like a gotcha that he had like
a knife in his bag or whatever, although he was
part of one of the other most thrilling scenes where
they're locked in the apartment with Scream and have to

(10:52):
walk across the ladder on the air shot. That was good,
so good. That was great. The action in this movie
was really fun. It's just, you know, not very good killers. Yeah,
I'm not very good killers. And um, I think that
the reveal. The problem with the reveal is that it
was just trying too hard to tie us back into

(11:15):
stories that I personally had already forgot about and didn't
care about anymore. Stories are so powerful. I don't know
if you. Stories are really powerful matter not. Everyone should
have survived, like the whole four four. That's the point
of screen movies is that the characters that you like die.
I like, I love Gail. Gail should have died, like

(11:38):
Mason Gooding's hot as he is should have died. Gail
Weather No, wait, Gail Weathers survived. Yeah, at the end,
they had the moment where they were like, oh, yeah,
Gail's at the hospital, Gail and Kirby are fine. That
doesn't make any sense. I thought she was I thought
she was dead. I totally missed that she was still alive.
Stobbed so many times, so many times. And also, okay,

(12:02):
I'm sorry, I'm sorry to do this, but like, why
is there not but a lick of I makeup on
Courtney Cox. She looks dead. I thought she looked I
thought she looked fab but she was still iconic. Of
course she she was and rip to her hot boyfriend
who had no lines and just died. Oh yeah, that

(12:25):
was so bizarre. Again, this is what I'm saying about
the b plots is like I almost wanted. Obviously, when
you have a big ensemble, you can't like do a
ton with like character development. But like, I don't know,
there there could have been so many more interesting ways
for the killer reveal to go down if we had
more stakes in like what the characters were doing. But
it doesn't. You know, the action was amazing though, So yeah,

(12:46):
you know, I guess I would plain. I guess I
was hoping that the killer reveal would have more to
do with the whole idea of the main girl whatever
her name is in the movie, Um, like the conspiracy
theory that she was the actual killer. Like I know
that the killers were the ones who planted that, but
I think that could have been a better part of

(13:08):
the sort of meta commentary that it was doing, like
about victimhood and you know, they just like didn't really
chase that that rabbit. So but yeah, still very enjoyable
moviegoing experience. I had a lot of fun watching it,
and I will be seated for every scream that's it's
I just will. Okay, let's let's move on from from Scream,

(13:32):
both the movie and the titular killer. Yeah. Two, we're
going from New York to Ocean Boulevard right now. Yes
to Lana del Rey, who also is the topic of
I mean she is the overarching topic of this whole
episode because after this we'll have a conversation about her
with Sean Fay, noted author and um Lana del Rey historian.

(13:57):
So did you know that there's a tunnel under Ocean Boulevard?
Was released on Friday? And what do we think? Fran
Um love it, Love love love it. I am like
feeling like, you know, it's bringing us back to Norman Rockwell, Launa.
I feel like it's also going to like SoundCloud Laana.
It reminds me like something like Peppers. I think reminds

(14:21):
me a lot of her SoundCloud song with Asap Rocky Riding.
That's like so like very Lizzy Grant. Yes, it's Lizzy Grant.
It's like, I you know, trap beat from like garage band,
like you know iOS six, You know what I mean,
Like it was it's like fun and funny and dirty,
and I don't know, she really is such a producer,

(14:44):
and I think that's something like I think I loved
and respected her more as a songwriter and asked a
producer on this album than I had in previous albums.
What about You. Yeah, the songwriting on this is really beautiful,
and I really feel myself drawn to some of the
tracks that almost are the ones that I feel like

(15:06):
she'll never perform live, Like something like something like Fingertips,
which like is almost more of just a poem set
to music, and like something that I like imagine is
she like just recorded to like have it live as
a song and it's not necessarily something she'll ever perform live.

(15:29):
You know, I agree. I think in a lot of ways,
this is a return to a sound that she maybe
didn't do on Blue Banisters or or chem Trails, Like
there is a little bit more of that like hip
hop influence on some of the songs, but I feel
like what she's writing about has evolved a lot. Like

(15:51):
there's so much reckoning with mortality on this record, like
like the death that she's experienced in her family, like
the the knowledge of the mortality of the people she loves,
and also like the idea of I think she's thinking
a lot about the legacy she's going to leave behind.

(16:12):
Um and what you know, imprint her music has on
the world, which is really beautiful. And I mean some
of the imagery on this album, like um in Kintsugie
when she's talking about you know, like the cracks letting
the light come in is really lovely and yeah, I
just I just think it's really beautiful. It sounds very Um.

(16:36):
A lot of the songs have that sort of like
old school Disney quality to the like the the orchestration
and um, I mean like some of them just like
the the like swelling of the music if so emotional,
like the the Grandfather song Grandfather, Please Stand on the

(16:56):
Shoulders of My Father? I think is oh my Father
as something. Yeah, it's so beautiful. Um fish Tails also
really lovely and then um, I also really like Margaret
the song with Bleachers. I really like Candy Necklace. I
do think the standouts, the real standouts are the singles

(17:21):
that she's already released, Like yeah, I do think I
do think A and W is the best song on
the album A and W did you Know There's a tunnel? Um?
I also love that she's like in conversation with the
music she's already released, like on Um the Taco Truck,
Venico Taco Truck, Venice Bitch. It's like I gasped, when

(17:42):
so good, so self referential. It reminded me of Sissa
sampling herself in her last album and like bringing us
back to these like iconic moments from their career and
then putting it in a completely new context. That almost
like it's like Lana kind of evaluating her self, which
I feel like she has been doing a lot over

(18:03):
the last few albums because when like when Laana like
emerged on the scene, you know, she was the complete package.
She had an aesthetic, she had a vibe, she presented
like you know who, she was pretty unapologetically, and now
like these more recent albums, it's like her looking back
at her own archetype and seeing what she's going to

(18:23):
take and what she's gonna leave. I'm gonna take mine
of view with me, etc. Etc. So, like what you
said about you know, her self referencing and in something
like Venice Bitch, I think it just she she's doing
something that she does so well on this album in general,
which is take off a whole language of like you know,

(18:46):
Laana isms and pull them back and give them a
completely new meaning, Like Venice Bitch had a new meaning
at the end of this album and this song, and
that I really appreciated. Same thing with Peppers. To me,
I mean the trope of letting the light in and
is like I think, really a beautiful kind of theme

(19:09):
like thematic device throughout this album. Um. With Kinsugi specifically,
I mean Kintsugi, like that is such a stumble upon
thing like that is such a like tumbler girl discovers
like what Kintsugi is and like it's her whole personality
for like three months. Um. But like that's what Lana does.
So Will is like is take this like the most

(19:33):
basic ass behavior and elevate it into an art form.
Yes literally like basic into like actually like translatable like
megamind art star. Um. I will say. The Father John
Misty song is giving youth group. I could not I

(19:55):
could not really I could not really get on it.
I felt like part of me wanted songs like that
to like No, I just wish there were more songs
like A ANDW that was like my only thing, Like
I wanted a little more grit, grit and glamor see.
I felt that way with the interludes, which if you

(20:16):
do a little digging, are are from this like church
that she sometimes attends and their sermons from the pastor
and like that I didn't really vibe with. And I
was with my friend Hilton yesterday and they were saying,
like that those songs are gonna ruin the experience of

(20:36):
having just Launa on shuffle, and like one of those
comes on, So maybe those will be songs that I
have to block on Spotify. Yeah, but I do really
think when placed in context with the rest of La
Launa's discography, like this just makes so much sense and
it's such a logical next step an evolution for her.

(21:01):
And yeah, I wish I wish this album had been
out before our conversation with Sean, But I also think
we had a really good experience of like talking about
who Lana is as this album was about to be released,
and like where where she stands in the culture and

(21:24):
with all of us specifically. So I still think it's
like a very It was. It was a great conversation. Well,
happy Lana Day, Happy Happy Lana Weekend, Happy Lana week month, whatever. Um,
there are some things that we that I know are
like out in the culture that we just um that

(21:44):
we're not going to talk about today. Neither Fran or
I have watched the first episode of the new season
of Yellow Jackets, and we might hold that for the Patreon,
So if you want to hear our thoughts, you're going
to have to subscribe Patreon on tom Slush like a virgin. Also,
I have been spending the last couple months catching up

(22:06):
on Succession and I'm almost I'm like midway through season three.
So we will talk about Succession. I don't know if
we'll do it here or on the patron, but I'm
I'm like, I'm like full successionista now. I season. Yeah,
I was gonna ask got me Yeah. It was very
hard for me to get into it first. I was

(22:28):
really bored through the most of season one, and then
the end of season one like got me hooked, and
I just like plowed through season two really quickly, and
I'm I'm fully obsessed now. I said this on the pod.
I think I tried to watch the first episode of
Succession like four times because every time I was so

(22:49):
bored and I turned it off. But once you're in it, Steva,
you're in it. Yeah. I just I love I love Shiv,
I love Tom and Greg. I also love how none
of them are using iPhones because they're all villains and
we know that rule that Apple has. Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. Um.
I also love um what's her face? The mom the

(23:10):
mean mommy, mean mommy, who like Don Lawyer, called Jerry
Jerry Jerry Jerry. I also love um. I love Cherry
Jones and Holly Hunter. Cherry Jones plays the you know,
like the matriarch of the other so companies perfect arch
nemesis yea. And Holly Hunter with her fucking bangs. Holly

(23:34):
Hunter is crazy in this show. Oh my god. Um okay, yeah,
let's do a Patreon discussion. I can't wait to deep die. Yeah.
Maybe we'll maybe we'll have to bring um back a
previous guest to do like a proper Succession episode we have,
And I wonder who that I wonder who that could be? Yeah?
Who who has been on the show like loves Succession

(23:57):
very publicly. We'll see, We'll see, Okay, without further ado yeah,
my pussy tastes like pepsicola. It doesn't. It'd be like
a diet home flavorying diamond two baby, New York City, Sean,

(24:31):
what's your earliest memory of Lana? Like? When? When were you?
When was your cherry pop? Have you been there since
the beginning? I have been there, of course, have been
there since the beginning. I was like a gay boy
on Tumblr. M I actually video games. I wasn't as

(24:52):
I wasn't like right there at the beginning of video games,
before that breakout moment. I think Born to Die the
song with the Flower Crown and the Throne is like
my strongest memory of like the first song of lambdor
Rays that I became obsessed with, and then I went
back to video games. But I was there from pretty

(25:14):
early on, Like I have only ever seen Lana live
and that was twenty thirteen and it was the Born
to Die Paradise edition era. So yeah, I'm a Flower
crown Erastan. Okay, Well, my stand um does predate yours
just a little bit. Okay, this ship, yes, one of tranship.

(25:41):
So I was I was having a party at my
old apartment in Bushwick and my friend pulled me into
my bedroom to do coke, and while we were doing it,
she pulled out her phone and was like, you have
to watch this music video of this girl that I
was in AA with, and she pulled it out and
put on video. It's not Miss Lana would be honestly

(26:02):
so proud of your Internet Alana, Like that is so befitting.
I mean, you were in Brooklyn, not in you know,
southern California or whatever, so that's like the only you know, misalignment.
But like, I think she would love that, you know,
you were doing coke in a bedroom and talking about
you know, a yeah. Well she think she would. She
would because she's she is. She's always been kind of

(26:23):
a sober icon. Like she's been quite open about being
sober from the beginning. But she also like likes to
hark back to the glory. She's like one of those
sober people that likes to talk about when they used
to do coke. So she'd be glad that, like people
are bombing over coke, do you know what I mean? Yeah? Yeah, absolutely, friend?
What was your intro to Lana? So much like Shanna,
I also used to be a gay boy on Tumblr

(26:47):
and I have said on this podcast that Lana is
the most successful pop star to like emerge from the
indie sleeves era, specifically on Tumblr, and that was definitely
my um exposure to her as well. I definitely found
out about her on Tumblr, like in the twenty tens,
like her like gifts and images and like and just

(27:10):
like you know, the tracks when tumbler could like put
any track on the blog and you could listen to
all the really unreleased shit like that was my kind
of first impression. And I actually don't really remember what
the first song I heard was, but obviously the first
thing that stuck to me was the gangster Nancy Sinatra thing,
because at the time I was going in college, I

(27:34):
was going through a big Nancy Sinatra phase and then
Lana just happened to emerge on the scene or in
my life, and I was like, oh, like she I mean,
I hate the kind of epithet gangster Nancy Sinatra. However
she does sound she has it. She sounds like Nancy Sinatra,
and I latched onto first and foremost that like the

(27:56):
aesthetic world that she built immediately on arrival, I mean,
her second arrival when she rebranded after Lizzie Grant, but
like that was like I just remember seeing the full
picture of her as this like sixties Los Angeles batty
and I was like, I get it, yes, and excuse
us for dead names, but you know, she does seem

(28:18):
to be comfortable with the fact that we all know
shece was Lizzie Grant, so I think it's okay. Yeah,
So I actually like I was never in the Lizzie
Grant era. I don't know much about that era, y'all. No,
not really. I mean the music has definitely endured, Like

(28:40):
you know, her unreleased songs are legendary and the real
real stands, like even deeper stands than I am have
like an encyclopedic knowledge of them. I'm more aware of
the visuals of that era, like her with the Blonde.
It's very much Yeah, it's very much thing when Katy

(29:01):
Perry was Katherine Hudson and she was a Christian rock musician, right, yeah,
it are there other examples of that, Like, yeah, Katie
Perry is one of like other other big names with
pre eras that we've kind of like memory hold. I'm
trying to think, like, um, Shakira was Shakira was like

(29:25):
in the Spanish language, was kind of like an alanist.
Morrisset like sing a songwriter Gabriel Garcia marqueza that if
one hundred Years of Solitude was ever going to be
turned into a film, he would want Shakira to write
the entire musical score. And then she was like I'm
going to really she Wolf, well, I guess let me,

(29:46):
let me get on my la and wasn't there. Also
didn't Mariah reveal that she at one point had a
sort of like emo grunge moment that she like wrote
a whole kind of pop rock album. Yeah, you know,
everyone's everyone's had different eras. Madonna of Us is another one. Yeah,
Donna was the front runner. Who was the front woman

(30:07):
of a band. I'm trying to think of others. Well, Pink,
Pink had that first album where she was black as well.
There was that. I mean, it's so good as well.
I was listening to that. Thank you, thank you so
much for bringing up Pink because we really needed to
invoke her on this podcast. We need to do a
Pink episode at some point. We absolutely do not need

(30:28):
to do a Pink episode. I don't think you need
to Pink episode. But my big theory is that stupid girls.
Do you remember that song that's that's a turf anothing,
that's a turf anthem, that tour of anthem. You're so right.
I mean, I think Pink has has rad found vibe. Yeah,
she's got radigal feminists like you know, I didn't you know,

(30:52):
women didn't fight for your right to wear heels and
Panda to the male gaze. It's got that kind of
those teas. But I think I must be in the banks.
It's the kind of Kate Gosling Bank that's going to
be like the new era of turf Banks is actually
going to be the Pink Swoop. Yeah, grown out, a
bit pushed to the side. Yeah, she does. In fairness though,

(31:14):
the reason that I think Pink uh like has kind
of now managed to escape any anything like about her
turf song and her sort of like racially ambiguous problematic
eras that she hates both of them, where she hates
stupid girls and she's always hated it and she's always
hated that first album, so that you can't really be
like m your first album you Yeah, so much like podcasts,

(31:37):
Pink is Pink is uncancellable. M fran I do think
you hit on like some of the things that really
characterized Lana's early fame, and I think what people latched onto,
which was that she literally sounded like she was from
another era, and she also was like mashing the esthetics
of a bygone time with very like girl internet like

(32:01):
um soft grunge like she was. I don't know if
there's ever been an artist that was more perfect to
be tumbler famous like she just was what all the
girlies wanted to be. Um. I mean, Sean, like, what
did you what did you latch onto about her? I

(32:22):
think what I latched onto, Look, I was just thinking
obviously I just said Born to Die was my first
experience with her. But where I really feel like it
popped off for me in terms of my obsession with
her was Ride and the Ride monologue, because I don't know,
it was the kind of like campy but also deeply earnest,

(32:43):
like lines like you know, I was in the winter
of my life and the men I met along the
road were my only summer and at that time, I
think that was probably my peak grinder era of like
pre transition. Trying to so I feel like Lana Delay
came aroung at the right time for me to self narrativize. Yeah,

(33:08):
like I guess a kind of certain self homy interest
in men. I mean, look, that will do it, honestly.
I Yeah, the monologue is so iconic. My friend Willie
Norris has this incredible performance of it. I strongly recommend
if if anybody, if any of the Virgins, can find

(33:28):
like a video of it. Yeah, there's something about that
monologue and just about the extremely cinematic, which I think
is like I use that word all the time, but
I think it's very befitting for Lona is that she
was writing songs as if they were movies, Like so
much of her aesthetic was entwined in Hollywood, and I
think that, you know, when you listen to her songs

(33:51):
sometimes you know, this is less true of like the
first two albums, but like sometimes their songs kind of
blend together as this like backdrop or landscape for the
world that she lives in. And like, uh, yeah, but
that but that monologue just like painted a character that
we just like got to know more and more in
all of its problems and LORI you know, but it's

(34:12):
also ridiculous, isn't it. I remember, like around the first
album time, a friend of mine used to always joke
that Lana Darey's favorite book was the Wikipedia summary of Lolita,
which is kind of like true. Yeah, there's like something
about the fact that it's like, I don't know, the flickering,
the Americana of it all is like very like like

(34:35):
I don't know, like slightly vacuous as well. Um, yeah, well,
it's like her her idea of America is like you
can find It's it's like what you can find for sale,
like at a gas station. You know. It's it's like
she is like cherry picking these very kind of like

(34:56):
superficial um images of what America is and kind of
working backwards from there and like trying to make them profound,
and it really works. Yeah, I think that they're I mean,
it is, there's a lot of it that is superficial.
But I also think that, you know, the gas station
girlie that she is. I can't even remember, there's an

(35:18):
unreleased song about her at a gas station or something,
and that really is her esthetic and that really is
actually I think, like a segment of California that exists,
and I think that like her weird conservatism and like
her complete like I don't give a fuckery about like
whatever she's doing. I think is that's a real culture,

(35:39):
you know, like a thought a culture I want to
hang out with, but like that's a real culture, that's
like a real group of people I think in America
that I think she acutely identified. You know. I love
that we mentioned Lolita though, because like the first thing
I thought it was when Azalea called her little what
you called her, like little Lolita Chola cosplay or something
like that. So well, they do it. They do have

(36:02):
epic beef. I mean, Lana and Azalia, I actually think
do kind of encapsulate two of the you know, different
sides of the tumbler girl aesthetic that that existed at
that time. And so of course, like they had to
have beef at some point. Yeah, that beef was so

(36:23):
specific to early Twitter days too. Oh yeah, it was it.
What was it? Lana said something like pull up? That
was her like pull up, but I wouldn't. Yeah, the
thing is is that I was just thinking about that
because I feel like a little bit I feel bad
that I've just said that, like on some level it
was a bit vacuous because at the same time, I

(36:44):
think like at that early stage around the first album,
and it's something that she's spoken about a lot, like
Lana got savaged by critics who basically didn't get it.
She felt that the music had been made poppier than
she was expecting. She's just said that in a covering
of view for Rolling Stone UK. She revisited that that
the album ended up poppier than she expected it and

(37:06):
then critics kind of didn't get her, and that there
was a lot to do with at the time, her esthetics,
the like suspicions that she'd had plastic surgery, the slightly
like retro styling. Was that it was around the time
where like Beyonce was about to drop her kind of
feminist album with Self, like everyone was becoming like it

(37:26):
was becoming popular to say you were a feminist in
pop culture, and she just seemed to be out of
step with the direction of travel. And I think she
has felt quite traumatized ever since by that response that
she had at least critics she is kind of a

(37:46):
woman out of time and like you're so right, and
that she was so misunderstood, And I think she has
carried that feeling with her throughout her career, sometimes to
her detriment, like with the question for the culture of
it all, but like, I mean, was there a more
unifying pop culture event than Lana on SNL? Like, I

(38:08):
don't know. That was one of the early memes, especially
on Tumblr, the little PNG gift of her twirling on everything.
It's so good. I mean sometimes it still comes up
on my Instagram feed and there's never a time I
won't stop and watch that. And there's like so much
you can do with the captions, and I think the like, also,

(38:33):
do you think that that, Like I feel like that
whole response, especially the way that like it was kind
of you brought up the question for the culture, but
the misogynistic element of her esthetic and the fact that
people male critics seemed obsessed with, you know, her appearance
and surgery and stuff like that. I feel like that's

(38:53):
that there's some there's some trends identification films that I
have absolutely, absolutely the thing about Lana is that she
is like she is a plinth upon which to project
like whatever your thing is, and so in that way,
to me, she is a very transfer Yeah, she is.

(39:13):
And I don't know whether or not she's she's very
like I feel like white trends woman vibes as well,
because she's obviously just very white woman of being like
slightly affronted and kind of a little bit narcissistic in
the sense that she's really wronged by society, which is
kind of giving very specifically white trans woman. I can

(39:34):
think I can think of a few, yeah, And I
think in that like trans that this kind of like
this like trans reading like to me, I always talk
about it's so annoying, but like the bimbification of our
generation and how we're all just like everybody should be
a bimbo now, like Lana predated that, a lot of
pop stars predated that obviously, But you know, Sean, like

(39:58):
earlier you were talking about just um, you know, the
word vacuous and like you know whether you know using
that word to describe Lane. And I do think that,
especially in that SNL performance, vacuousness is the aesthetic like
and why can it? Why can't it? And I think
that like if Lana, if Lana word emerge in twenty

(40:19):
twenty three or whatever, I think it would have been.
I mean, obviously it would be there would be so
much different context. But like that we would be having
different conversations about her, right, Like we wouldn't we would
be like honoring and commending her vacuousness, which I think
Tumbler did, do you know, Like we did love that
she was like distant and weird and awkward and empty. Well,

(40:40):
it also left a lot of room for people to
fill the gaps in and like make her deeper than
maybe she even meant to be until she actually started
meeting them there and like became kind of a very deep,
introspective person. Yeah, And I think like also like that
one are the aspects of the trans reading for me,

(41:03):
which is what I said earlier about the ride monologue,
but about that, like at that time, I was literally
just trying to like fit in with mostly gay men
that I was friends with at the time by on
Grinder and stuff like that, So it was it was
a kind of appropriate, um, I don't know, accompaniment to that,
but with a specifically like trans feminine reading. I think

(41:25):
it's because there's a lot right from the beginning with
Anna Delay about like um, like seeing yourself through how
men see you, and about this idea of like her
gaze being like projected into male gaze. I can is
it off to the races where she's like, he likes
to watch me in the glassroom, perfume kanyet lie, Like
whatever is that? Like it's her singing about a man

(41:47):
looking at her, So it's her gaze on a man
looking at her, which I think is very trans woman totally.
I mean, I can only speak for myself, but in
the early years of my transition, like, um, male validation
was one of the things that validated my gender, Like

(42:09):
being called on the street. As awful as it was,
also like made me feel super cunty because I was like, Okay, well,
if they're you know, like, um, you know, yelling at me,
then at least that means they like think I'm a
woman and they want to fuck me, and that is
very langel Ray code that this would get me canceled
in the UK. No, I think I think that's true.

(42:31):
I mean, and I think, I mean, I love that
you said in me because we like we're around the
same age biologically, and also we transitioned around the same time.
And I was like, I love that she's saying in
my early transition because I was like, that was me
a month ago. Yeah, yeah, in my early transition. I
use men for validation. There was a really I can't

(43:10):
remember who looking for days. I remember a few years ago,
like a lesbian writer wrote specifically about how Lana del
Rey helped her understand like what her straight women friends
were talking about because she's so obsessed with, like I
don't know that, like the sort of inherent humiliations of
being a woman in heterosexuality in a way that I

(43:30):
think is like you don't really like she almost sings
about heterosexuality like she's an outsider to it because she
really sort of like it doesn't seem natural to her.
It's something that she is constantly analyzing. And like I said,
like when when everyone else in that time where the
early twenty tens were starting to become like yeah, feminism,

(43:51):
she was actually singing some pretty regressive things that clearly
a lot I think now we could probably accept that
quite a lot of women still feel and struggle with
inviolation to men, and thank God for that we need it.
It's very motivating. M Yeah, I mean, I am but
a baby trans but like I feel like, you know,

(44:12):
there is this kind of like moment somewhere along the
way where you're like, oh, like I have like workshopped
and created like my femininity around like what men want,
and that's like embarrassing, you know. I think that there's
like a I think that there's like, you know, I
wonder if, like Lana, I feel like, you know, when

(44:33):
we're talking about the different eras of Lana, I wonder
if Lana ever had this kind of realization where or
rather like, I'm not a Laana scholars, so I'm actually asking, like,
do you think that there was like a pivotal moment
where Lana was like, I'm a different artist now post
video games? She wanted to like take herself more seriously
and you know, release all these like slow ballads and

(44:55):
a new era of like deeper raw music or I
I don't, I don't know. I think she's always taken
herself very seriously. That I think that's kind of the
thing with Lana. I do believe that there was a
certain point where she decided to make music that interested

(45:16):
her and she didn't really care what anyone else thought
about it, And that actually, to me, is when she
started making her best music. Like I think probably Norman
fucking Rockwell is like her at her most introspective and
That's why I think it's her best album and like
her creative peak in a lot of ways. I kind

(45:37):
of agree with Raise completely. It's my favorite of her albums,
and I do think it's her peak today, although I
think the New One has the potential too. I saw
a really good meme about the new one racing It's
not like thank you for saving my life meme where
and it was too. Do you know there's a ton
of on Derosion Boulevard and the album to Soundswering Batman
I'm not even released yet. Yeah, yeah, it does. It

(46:02):
does feel like a return. I think tom music that
she hasn't been making for a little bit, um like
A and W and we we talked about this recently,
that ANW does feel a little spiritually closer to some
of her earlier work. Yeah, you know, I think Norman
Fucking Rockwell is her best album. It's not my favorite

(46:24):
album just because Ultra Violence was so formative for me
and I spent so much time with it, and like
the summer that Ultra Violence came out, whenever I went
to someone's apartment, I would be like, turn on your
AC and turn on Ultra Violence, and not with just Well.
It was never not being listened to and it's fucking music.

(46:45):
Norman fucking wrote Well was a breakup album for me
after I had had like it was my biggest attempt
at assimilating into heterosexuality. It was just before the pandemic
and I had like a straight boyfriend and stuff like that,
and then in the end the irreconcilable differences of the
fact that he just basically wanted me to be like
his like cis girlfriend and like settled down and get

(47:08):
married and have kids, and I realized I couldn't do that,
so I left him, and then Norman fucking Rockwell came out,
and I feel like that's it's such a mood as
a breakup album to be like a goddamn near sociopath
and like Sylvia, I mean, I was just I was
living and then we and then we went into like
Quarantine and I just listened to it all the time.
What a like that is? Like so like, I'm sorry

(47:33):
that you experienced that breakup, but you're so lucky that
Norman fucking rock or was it like that must have
felt so cathar Like you must have been wallowing and
laying around and so sad and like it's a dangerous
thing for a woman like me to have. But I
have it. But I have it, But I have it period.
She has had it. Um god, um wait, Rose, did

(47:58):
you ever have like a Lana breakup era or like
a Lana heartbreak era? I think, um, yeah, yeah, you're
like none that I want to talk about. Um, I
mean Lana For me, I do tend to visit Lana
more when I'm feeling slutty than when I'm feeling sad
or when I'm feeling like the perfect mix of both. Yeah,

(48:22):
just when I'm binary? What a binary? I'm I'm non binary,
I'm slutty, I'm sad often yeah same um yeah um.
We should also say for the Virgins unsure of when
this episode is coming out, but as of record, we
only have a n W out as her most recent release.

(48:43):
And like I also am excited for this era, Like
I do think it has the potential just from this
that one song to be something that is like greater
than Norman fucking Rockwell. And just as Rose said, like
her earlier era, there's something about n W that is
distinctly sound cloudy, you know what I mean, Like it
sounds like a little like grungy roddy. It sounds kind

(49:06):
of tinny at the end, like it sounds like it's
you know, pumping through like a laptop speaker or something
like I really one of those old white MacBooks. Yeah,
it sounds like it's coming out of that. It kind
of the end of it kind of gives unreleased Lizzy
Grant track. Yeah, It's like I wasn't just a nice
seven minute like the sort of like egregious ego of

(49:29):
road dropping like a seven minute song. I just feel
like we haven't seen the like in years. I mean,
it's giving like I don't know, like a since since
I goistic, but it's a yeah, no I know, but
like I do, I do kind of miss you know.
I was just thinking the other day in when Gaga
would just release like insanely long music videos and then
like we all became white fatigued by it, and then

(49:50):
and then they went back to normal length. I think
it's just time for like stupidly long songs and maybe
even a return to long music videos. Well now, but
like absolutely well now that every song is like TikTok length,
I think we really crave like longer songs that you know,
dare to defy the Spotify algorithm. You know, we talked

(50:11):
a lot about like Ethel Kaine and like when she
you're you know, her album, you know, mixed reviews, but
a lot of people hated that Thoroughfare is nine minutes,
that all these songs are seven minutes or whatever. And
Ethel Caine has like cited Lana as like her favorite
artist of all time, and I just like, like why not,
you know, like I personally, you know, seven to nine

(50:33):
minute songs are like a lot of them are usually
they feel like experiments, so they don't feel finished or
they like drag on. But like I would much rather
someone try to do it and dare to like experiment,
experiment or make something that's like kind of all the
way out there, you know. Ethelcaine. Ethel Caine who dated
Lana's bisexual porn star boyfriend. H yeah did you Yeah?

(50:59):
This guy has like bit has made the rounds with
the girls I wanted to do I want to do
it where it was his Instagram drop his ig So
he's so hot in the grossest way possible. Oh no,
does he look like super unemployable? Yes? Yeah, that is

(51:19):
my type two. Okay, we need we need the ig dropped?
Do you know I didn't. I didn't know. I was
listening to the eel Kan album all of last year.
I only found out she's trans like a month ago.
How did I miss that? You know? The trans pop
girlies are are, you know, coming in stealth? Like I
feel like when Kim Petris emerged on the scene, so

(51:41):
many of my friends had no idea she was trans.
And I think that's amazing, you know, I think Ethel
it's not never something that she hid. The same thing
with Kim. It's like never something she hid. But it's like,
you know, it's like just like a kind of thread
in the fabric of her life, I think. And I
can't wait for Lana to come out as trans f

(52:03):
to f trans woman. She kind of is. She is
like Liddy Grant is. Yeah, is before I was going
to actually just talk about that. It is. Also what
is funny is that Lana Delray has somewhat detransitioned in
terms of her femininity from this like heart like the
esthetic of the beginning, which obviously is to do as
well with the fact that she obviously was like horrifically

(52:26):
pressured to like lose loads of weight and so she's
become more I guess, more comfortable. But there's all this
discourse around the fact that her style is that she
just dresses like a regular person and that like this
like higher target. Yeah, so that like this highly kind
of um, I don't know, like manicured esthetic of the

(52:47):
first like album or two. It's clearly something that she
never really was that comfortable with. And I think it's
kind of great that she's like able able to just
dress like a normal now and yet and yet that esthetic,
the aesthetic of your is kind of what her music
has bred in the people who listen to it. Like
I was, I have my sisters who are twenty, they're

(53:11):
visiting and they're staying with me, and I was mentioning
Lana Delray to them, and like they're super familiar with her.
They have friends who love her and listen to her,
but they're friends who love her. And I think a
lot of the girls who are still like very enamored
with her and the whole low leader vibe, like are
still like like seeing her as this pinnacle of like

(53:31):
a high of like an internet high fem persona, when
that like aesthetic is so completely divorced from who Laana
is irl, And it's just fascinating to me the way
that Laana has endured as this high fem Internet icon
for so long while not actually giving that so much

(53:53):
in her like literal aesthetic. I either we've just cut,

(54:16):
we haven't even bothered talking about Lust for Life, No
one does. Yeah, I mean for me, there are like Honeymoon.
Lust for Life and Honeymoon are my least favorite Lana offerings. Um,
they're the most skippable to me. Yeah, I concur I

(54:41):
mean I actually think as well. This is what's strange,
isn't it is that I feel like there are the
like albums with the capitol A and then the albums
with the kind of lowercase A, and so like for me,
the big Alblana albums are like Born to Die, Paradise Edition,
Ultra Violence, Norman Fucking rock Quell, And then now I've

(55:03):
sensed that it will be the case with did you
know there's a Tunnel under Ocean Boulevard? Because also with
chem Trails over the country Club and Blue Banisters. I mean,
I guess she was trying to do a little like
Miss Taylor Swift vibe of like dropping two albums in
the Pandemic that was so close together, but I just
felt like they, as I say, the Pandemic was so

(55:23):
overshadowed by my obsession with Norman fucking Rockwell that I
just feel like I do like chem Trails over the
Country club Work. I like the song, and I like
Jesus Tells a Freak and is so good. I think
it's one of her best songs. Yeah it is, But
I just feel like the two albums and Blue Banisters

(55:43):
is really good, but it's just like I just feel
like they were too jam packed together and they weren't
given enough room to breathe. And I do think I
know that like Taylor Swift with Folklore and Evermore managed
to get away with that, but I do just think
in general, that's an section to the rule, and I
think I think like releasing like custers of albums like that,

(56:06):
especially probably in a time where I don't know, I
felt somewhat distracted and so soon after such a huge
landmark album like Norman fucking wrote, Well, they just I
feel have always been a bit like Tier two for
me in comparison. Yeah. Well, I mean, first of all,
Taylor did get away with Folklore and Evermore, but evermore

(56:26):
still kind of is folklore B sides. And I say
that as a big Taylor Swift fan, but I read
something interesting recently. So Lana has been doing a lot
of press around her new album, and she said that
her last couple albums have been much more personal and
like specifically about her family. And one thing she said

(56:48):
about Blue Banisters was that she made it because she
felt that she had to and she didn't really care
about so much about releasing it, and in fact, that's
why she did basically no promo for it and why
she made that like you know Microsoft paint cover that
we all joked about, and she said, I don't know,

(57:09):
I don't have the exact quote, but she said something
like she wanted it to be there in case anyone
needed to go and like look it up and reference
it and kind of investigate her and have more context
for who she is as a person, and not really
that she needed to have this big moment of like
offering something to the world artistically. It's her finst Oh

(57:35):
my god, you're so right, Blue Banisters, and maybe like, okay,
here's here's what it is. Cam Trails is her close
friends and Blue Banisters is her finstuff. This is one.
This is just one for people that want a little
bit more context. Um, what what is your what's what

(57:57):
is your distinction between? Because do you think like a
Finster is like Close Friends is like here's stuff that
I'm going to share that's I wouldn't put on Maine,
but like it's still if you screenshot it, my name
is still there. So it's got to be okay a
certain level. Whereas Finster is full mass. Yes, Finster is
Finster is like top secret. Um, Finster is like I mean,

(58:22):
I don't even really use my Finster anymore. Um, very
miss Rose, bring it back. I used I used to
love your Finster. There was some I used to I've
gone back for it onto your Finster so many times,
every every time that I've been prescribed prep there you
had on your Finster like a girl with like a

(58:45):
little like tank top that said bare back Princess. And
I would go every time, screenshot it and then send
it to Gaze. I'm so glad that I'm glad that
it exists as a community resource well exactly like weibnisters. Yeah. Close,
I would say that Close Friends has more. I utilize

(59:05):
it more. Now is like farming for like opinions from
people that I actually know IRL or I guess, okay,
here's by close friends. I will only add to it
people who I actually know in real life or like
Internet friends that I feel comfortable sharing like a slightly

(59:28):
more personal level of my social media experience with. And
then Finster is like for the girls, and that's it.
Like I have to have actually like spent time with
you in real life and like be somewhat confident that
you would not share my personal information with someone. Well

(59:48):
what realistically for me with Finsters and with close friends,
I have to be convinced that you are mentally ill
like I am. Yes, actually to be the same kind
of like you know, atypical, you know, like I feel
like I feel like, um, there's a for me like
close friends. I hate it that it's called close friends

(01:00:10):
because it's not my close friends. No French. I use
it definitely as like a control almost like a controlled audience.
Like I don't really love posting things to like, you know,
thirty thousand people, fifty thousand people or whatever, and so
I think it's more like everyday like shit posting kind
of like embarrassing date thing that happened that I'll share

(01:00:32):
on close friends to a lot of people that I
maybe have not met but like I know are good
like Internet sisters, and then finstas like I'm posting my
completely unsharable like dank memes like and like also I
think I go there to like talk shit, because usually,
like I don't want stuff on close friends if it

(01:00:53):
can like travel, you know the I don't know if
either of you have done this, but I'm going to
confess it here. The most unwell use of my close
friends ever is when I've taken all of my actual
friends off close friends, put one person that I think
is hot, and then put like basically a semi news

(01:01:17):
that's diabolical Stan very Lana. I was going to ask, y'all,
so what is it about Norman fucking Rockwell? I mean,
I think lyrically, I mean like lyrically it is like stunning,
Like I mean the fact that like it just the
opening like opening with goddamn Manchild, you fuck me so good.
I thought I almost said, I love you, like what
an opening to an album, But also like Mariner's Apartment

(01:01:41):
Complex is like one of the I just think one
of the most gorgeous songs that I can think of,
you know, of this century that's been written like um right,
like it makes me want to cry. I was it like, um,
you're lost at sea, our command your boat to me
again if I misquoted that anyway, Like it's just pretely
butchered that when I've been it's one of the most

(01:02:01):
beautiful lyrics. But yeah, it's just I just think it's
like lyrically, it's just gorgeous and it's sonically lush. It
feels extremely vulnerable in a way that this artist, who
I think started her career as being like a heightened

(01:02:23):
like version of herself, like created this sort of persona.
It feels very stripped back. It's very like my most
personal album yet vibes, but like it actually was, and
yet you can plug into it so easily. It really
is some of the best things she's ever had to
say about womanhood in like the Perfect Vehicle. Yeah, I

(01:02:48):
mean from that, it's like everything on Norman fucking Rockwell too.
This is the experience of being an American whore, Like
there is just like holding hands they go together, I
mean American. It's the experience of being an American horror.
That line it's like such a like Lana del Rey
algorithm generated like lyric and yet like as as so

(01:03:10):
many are, and yet it works so well. Like and
you know, the aesthetic through line of Norman Ruckle is
just perfect for her. It's like classic Americana to the
point of like a kind of weird chooginess, like almost
like a dystopian like happy nuclear family kind of thing
that I don't know, it just it just worked so

(01:03:31):
well when I when it was announced and when I
was listening to it. It is a crystallization of everything
she's ever done. I remember in like twenty twelve when
she was first round. I remember my a really good
friend of mine at the time saying they're not my
friend anymore because of this. No they they said something like, oh,

(01:03:53):
I really like how long could she keep basically this up,
like this kind of nostalgic but this idea that she
would be kind of like on one album Wonder And
it always I always think of it about like, actually,
how the longevity in her career and the idea that like,
I guess it returns to my earlier point about how

(01:04:14):
she was received, but this idea that it was a
stick that was going to come to an end, when
in fact she's really only kind of deepened it. There's
been like full arcs within it where she's returned. But
also like we haven't really mentioned Billy Eilish, but like
the very fat that there are so many, there's so
much Lana del Rey progeny now that like these artists

(01:04:37):
raised Billy Eilish. You know, there would be no Billy
Irelish without Lana del Ray, which Billy said in that
interview magazine interview when she interviewed Lana, I didn't know that. Yeah, okay,
question for the culture. Fuck Mary, kill Lana albums, Lana albums,

(01:04:59):
Lana Eras. Sorry, I'll sorry, Yeah, okay, you go, Mary
Norman fucking rock Well, fuck ultra violence kill lust for life. Okay,
I won't do this. I won't do the same as
you and Mary. I would. I would realistically, I would
marry Um Norman fucking rock Well too, But let's say

(01:05:22):
because I would maybe fuck Born to Die. I love
Born to Die. I love I love cocaine and old
cock as a kind of motif. Um not not not
literally anymore, but I I Yeah, so I feel like
I still find the kind of glamor, of Born to Die,

(01:05:45):
like it's often one that I will still put on
when I'm putting on my makeup. So I would probably
fuck that. I would probably I have to marry Norman
fucking rock Well. It was my breakup album, and then
I would kill Lust for life. Like I'm sorry, I
don't I don't think. I don't think I've ever like
apart from when it like maybe the first month that
came out, I never returned to her. Yeah, doing us

(01:06:08):
duet with the Weekend is the kiss of death for me.
That makes me so sad. Well, do you know what
we haven't Also is that I actually secretly also love
This is quite trashy, maybe for like pure like pure
Lizzy grandstands is I still love her old covers like
she did for the Maleficent Disney Live action film. She

(01:06:29):
did the same upon a Dream. I still love that.
I love her cover of blue velvet, and I love
Young and Beauty, and I love Young and Beautiful for
the Great Gatsby film. They're all stunning. Yeah, especially the
full orchestra version is so gorgeous. Yeah, when I go
to heaven, was it like, please let me take my man.

(01:06:50):
The codependent tease. I love it. Um Okay, Fran we
need your fuck Mary Kill. It's it's that cinematic quality.
I think to her music that it's like she's perfect
actually for soundtracks in general. She needs to do more
soundtracks except for them the Charlie's Angels Charlie's Angels verse

(01:07:10):
on the Remember Okay, I would I'm cheating a little bit.
I would kill Kim Trails. Sorry. I would marry Dealer
from Blue Banisters specifically because that is a vibe that

(01:07:30):
I could listen to for the rest of my life.
And I feel like there's so much about that song
that just like I connected with spirit. It's definitely probably
top five Lana songs for me, just because it came
I think the right time in my life or whatever.
And I think I would fuck like her SoundCloud tumbler era,
like I I'm thinking of. She has this song with

(01:07:54):
Asap Rocky called Ryden. I think that I was obsets
with in the first in my first year's moving to
New York. And I think that that song Pale Moonlight,
driving cars with boys dumb dumb, like that is like
the era that I want to like fuck forever. I
think Asap Rocky is so Hot in the National Anthem

(01:08:19):
music video Lana's videos, do you have a favorite Lana video?
Because you know those I think those are so like
so woven in with her music. Yeah, I mean, ride
is It's not my favorite song, but it probably is
one of my favorite video. It's just because it, like
remarked it's now so it's so genuinely nostalgiic because it's

(01:08:43):
like ten years old, and it was such a specific
time where like we're like the gift and like, you know,
you get like the BuzzFeed breakdown of of it a well, honey,
but Lana was keeping BuzzFeed's light build on, like fought catalog,
Like the girlies would not have had jobs if Lana
did not give them, you know, content to write about

(01:09:05):
her such a specific era of media like that, when
like Jezebel was kind of the apex of like feminist
journalism or whatever. This is what I was going to
say about the feminist of because I mentioned earlier about
how obviously like she was a like, Lana was criticized
a lot for the misogyny or the internalized misogyny rather
of her lyrics. At this time when as I say

(01:09:28):
it became popular for like more sort of mainstream female
pop artists to have to identify as feminists, whereast it
wasn't in the two thousands, really a cool thing to be.
And what I love is that I feel like I
don't know, we don't know whether or not, because she's
always had this sort of persecuted, I misunderstood thing. But
I feel my reading of it always is that Lana
went through a phase of trolling. She's always kind of

(01:09:49):
trolled media back. So there's some really like great headlines
that there was one where she was asked about feminism
and she was like, it really doesn't interest me at all.
I'm much more interested in Tesla and our intergalactic possibility
a taste, because you can't if you got it if
you're focusing on one. I just, I mean, I kind

(01:10:09):
of it's me when I get asked in press into
these here about about the Harry Potter lady. Can we
talk about our intercalactic possibilities? Not feminism? Yeah? That's such
a And the other good headline that she gave, which
was again it was a British interview, was The Guardian.
Here it's Lana del Rey Colon I wish I was

(01:10:30):
dead already love say, oh my god, she was so
real for that. I mean that of that, That's why
Dealer was so good. She's on there shrieking like I
don't want to live, and I'm like, yes, like or
of us these like you know lexapro bops Okay, like
did you know there's a tunnel under Ocean Boulevard? Fucked

(01:10:51):
me to death? Yes? Please now too dead. It's giving
dissociated slay slide into our dms at Like a Virgin
for twenty sixty nine to let us know what's your
favorite Lana song album? Are you feeling so Lana del

(01:11:15):
Rey Vinyl right now? Also, make sure that you become
a patron at patreon dot com slash like a Virgin.
Also buy our merch You can find the links anywhere.
Do you follow us, It's very easy to find. We
have lots of cute stuff for you to where to
show your virgivity or lack thereof. Next week we have

(01:11:42):
honestly like one of I think one of our best
episodes yet with special guest Frankie Grande, who we will
be talking about Star Wars with and a lot of
nerd shit. Oh yes, It is definitely an episode for
gay nerds everywhere. It's it's an episode for gay nerds,

(01:12:02):
it's an episode for arinators, it's an episode for people. Yes, yes,
so don't miss don't miss that. In the meantime, follow
us at Like a Virgin four twenty sixteen nine. I'm
your co host Rose Damn. You. You can follow me
anywhere online at Rose Damnu and I'm Fran. You can
find me at France, squish Goo anywhere you like. Like

(01:12:24):
a virginus my heart Radio production. Our producer is Huge
Pinter was supporting from Lindsay Hoffman and Micky Tour until
next week. Bye