Euphegenia Doubtfire Is A Trans Icon

• hands down the best episode of Like A Virgin ever recorded about the greatest film of all time, Mrs. Doubtfire
• Plus, there are people alive that have rewatched And Just Like That and one of them is Rose Dommu

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:02):
Did missus Delfhire tuck? No, because she was wearing those
long skirts, but she was also wearing pantyhose. I if
Robin Williams character is assists man, I don't think he would.
I don't think he would talk No. I I think
I think she tucked for the experience to feel fish,
to feel fish, you wanted to feel the soft and
Quint Welcome to Like a Virgin the show where we

(00:29):
give yesterday's pop culture today's tanks. I'm Rose, damn you.
I am Francrondo, and I love that you gave that
a What did you do to die? To die today?
At a minute or two until two? You really think
distinctly hard to say, but hard or still to do?
The um? Did you ever have to what other like
kind of did you have to do? Buddy gum money

(00:51):
and cut to cut? Oh? I had to do all
of them, you know, a girl? Oh, I know. I
literally went to acting school and to do all of them.
Speak red leather, yellow leather, red leather, yellow leather, red leather,
yellow leather. Speaking of acting school, I did ditch my
last class. Good good. I feel like after after your

(01:12):
venting session on air last week, I think that was
the right choice to make. Well, I don't think anybody
in the class like well knows who I am or
like what that I have that I'm talking. No, I
meant the right choice for you. Oh, thank you, thank
you because you because you m had so many um uh,
you know, negative things to say about it, like, yeah,

(01:36):
I really did, and I should I should also say
that I just for the record that I did not ditch,
so to speak. It is it was like my last
full day in la or was and was supposed to be.
You were supposed to be in New York today, but
you're not. I texted you bright and early this morning.
I texted you Taylor Swift's masterpiece Welcome to New York,

(01:57):
which I thought was really nice and welcoming of me. Yeah,
and you were still in Los Angeles. No. I really
appreciated the message, even though I do kind of think
that's the worst song on nineteen eighty nine, and let's
not I don't want to start a fight or the show. Well,
I don't think it's bad. I just think it's you know,
my least face. No, no no, no, move on. Oh my god.

(02:19):
Um well, I had let me tell you I saw
Phoebe on Sunday. It was quite lovely. We we missed you.
We wished you were at my moving sale. Oh I
thought you guys were just hooked up. Yeah, we Um.
Phoebe came to pick up a night a night stand,
some some dishware after hustling me on prices. Is that right, Phoebe?
We really had some negotiation happening. So um, how generally

(02:44):
was the sale? Did you get rid of lots of stuff? Rose?
I actually don't think I was prepared for what actually happened.
I sent out an email the night before that was like,
do not come before noon if I hear a buzz
before noon? Like, no, I didn't like, I will not respond.
Twelve oh one, I get a buzz, I go down

(03:09):
to like let this person in. There is a line
of more than twenty people. LA's Hottest Club is easily
easily two dozen people waiting outside my apartment. I was
so gooped, like and I honestly, here's the thing. Did
you take any of nonloads that day? I did? I did?

(03:30):
I take seventy five loads? The guy that took seventy
five loads literally lives a few blocks away from that apartment.
He was probably at the sale. He was probably what wait,
did you wait? Phoebe just told us that she hooked
up with someone in the bathroom a friends moving sale.
What Phoebe, Phoebe, Phoebe, are you making an appearance on
the show? I need? Actually, do you want to share?

(03:51):
Can you? You're like, I can't. Well, the well, the
versions will just have to you know, well, this will
remain cloaked in mystery. Okay, this will remain cloaked in mystery. Um,
all you need to know is that, um, you know Rose,
you and I we had We've had a lot of
trials and tribulations with Los Angeles flight culture. It's really
difficult to get people to show up for things on time,

(04:13):
let alone show up to things at all. And now
I figured out that if I ever want any of
my friends, loved one's, colleagues, followers to show up to something,
all I have to do is tell them that I'm
having in a state sale and they will show up
on time because they think you're dead. And I have
to pay respects to your your your exquisite corpse. And
you know, I use the word I use the term
of state sale like as a joke. And I don't

(04:35):
quite know if everyone there thought it was a joke. Um,
but I did sell really nice stuff. So you're a
state sale because I finally killed you, Yes, because you
finally killed me. But um, anyways, what did you do
this weekend? Rose? Um? I had um sex, lot of sex.

(04:56):
I am in such I know we talked about that.
I was like trying to jump start a slut era. Honey,
it has been started. It has been the parties as
in the immortal words of Pink. Um, what is the
actually what is the pink song that I'm referencing? U.
Let let's get this party started. Yeah, I get this

(05:18):
fatties dat it Um? Yeah, I am a whore. I'm
I am in. I am in a whore era. Um.
You know, this weekend I had some sex. I went
to a screening of the classic animated film Anastasia um

(05:42):
with a friend of the show and and friend Hunter
Harris at Nighthawk, which was, Um, it was like a
BuzzFeed comments section in a movie theater. Was there was there,
you know, a talk back afterward about about the Russian
dynasty and no nobody Scott this guy did introduce the
movie and he felt it necessary to tell us that

(06:04):
he was gay, and it was like, Babe, we knew, honey,
you're introducing Anastasia, you're a homosexual. I also ran into
a Rosebud while I was out furniture shopping. That was
very nice. I love my fans. There were many Rosebuds
furniture shopping at my at my sale this this weekend.
Who I forgot They wanted to all send their love

(06:25):
to you. A lot of people saying a lot of
people at the sales saying say hi to Rose, say
hi to Rose, Um, why is a Rose here? A
lot of people that didn't know that you're not in
La anymore. A lot of realized that is. Some people
don't don't seem to be don't seem to have caught
onto the fact that I switched coasts. No, No, A
lot of people, you know, still kind of figuring it out.

(06:46):
And that's how you like it. You like to keep
people on your toes about your exact location at any time.
And I want an air of mystery around me at
literally all times. And myself take I take a lot
of pride in and actually I'm very profitable in um
making sure that no one knows where I live at

(07:07):
any time, nor what I do for a living. Um,
and I think that that is just something that listen
that just because you don't do anything for a living,
because I don't, because I don't do anything of us
and I don't have jobs, I don't do anything, and
I don't live anywhere, and that is just what should
be said. Well that's all about to change, mama, it is. Um.
You know what else I did this weekend? So on

(07:29):
on Friday night, after watching drag Race, some friends and
I decided to start rewatching and just like that, which
I have not watched so since it was first airing,
so what the fuck? And then then I just and
then um, one of them had to leave because they're
like family. Cat died and so I just so I

(07:49):
just kept watching and just like that, and then watched
it the next day too, and watched the whole season
in like two days. And it it really is as
insane as we remember it being. It's like, it's not
that it's bad, like this is the thing. It's not,

(08:10):
it's not, but it just the things that we remember
about it, like the the chadas of it all, the
like extreme wokeness, that all is as bad as you
remember it because it's such an overcorrection like that is
that directly comes from all the criticisms that were always

(08:33):
you know, leveled at Sex in the City that it
didn't reflect the real New York City because it wasn't diverse,
and you know the ways it treated you know, queer
people and people of color, and it just like it
just corrected those things in the wrong way instead of
actually folding queer people and people of color organically into

(08:56):
the story, it like made Chaday. Yeah. But you know,
and like every person on the show is like a
non binary diva, I mean kind of. Yeah. I feel
like Miranda's going to transition at some point. I think
it's happening. Well, did you see that tweet that was

(09:16):
going around of the photo that someone had taken in
LA and it said Chay and Miranda are fighting on
my street. Oh no, yeah, so I do think that Chay. Well,
this is what I'm hoping and what I'm thinking, Okay,
is that you know, Miranda will go to La with Chay.
That's how the second season will start. But I think

(09:37):
they'll break up with it'll break up pretty yeah, And
because Miranda has to come back to New York and
I think they'll want to get rid of Chay. I
think so that he's more of a looming presence as
opposed to an every day did I say he You
did well, well, Fran just miss gendered Chay Diaz. Oh

(09:59):
my god, I'm sorry. I'm just sorry the jokes. I
couldn't have written it better myself. I'm honestly disoriented. I
the non binary trans podcaster misgendered the non binary trans podcast.
I honestly okay, maybe I will tell the virgins. Maybe
maybe I'm just kind of still in a certain headspace
after seeing radios out at Comment Everybody a few weeks ago,

(10:22):
where where they were giving heat, maybe they were giving
he him in the kind of leather snapback they were
they were wearing, and it just it stuck with me.
But I that I appreciate you holding me accountable in
that moment. I always be. I WI shouldn't be perceiving
gender at any time, at any point um in any way,
thank you. Should we not shall not be perceiving gender,

(10:43):
No never. We shouldn't be assuming gender, but we should
be perceiving it. No no, no, gender should never be perceived.
We should just actually see everyone as like just faceless,
gooey like orbs, just these floating balls of light. You're
really reminding me of what I was doing this weekend,
that floating balls of light onni Okay, okay, here's I

(11:04):
have a bone to pick with men. Okay, Why why
do you jerk off when we're going to hook up?
Why do you jerk off before I get there? Do? People?
I realized that I'm being yeah, and I realized that
I'm being hypocritical because I said recently, oh yeah, I
like to jerk off for I have a hookup. But

(11:27):
I know, I know myself, and I know that for me,
that's a warm up. And then I have at least
two more nuts left in me. And these fuckers I
show up and they're fucking soft. And it's like, it's
one thing if you like can't get hard and you're
just like it's whatever, Like it's fine, don't worry about it.

(11:48):
But like, if you can't get hard and you want
me to suck your dick pretending like it's hard in
an effort to get you hard, No, no, no, no no
no no, this is not improv class baser. Yes I'm
saying I'm saying no, but I'm saying no, but um
no and no but you're soft, No but you're soft. Yeah,

(12:10):
I don't. I don't really want to to solve the
Swedish puzzle box, that is, how do I get you
hard again? Um, Sometimes, especially with guys these days or
people with dicks who are just you know, we're they're
onto antidepressants, on adderall on estradile, on all of the
things of the above, all of the all of the
some of us for some of us, all of the above,

(12:32):
alex some some divas, yeah, some divas among us. I
have multiple Bonard deterrence in our system and therefore, you know,
can't get it up. But like, if I have to
figure that out, it's like that is that is a
I really care about you. I'm going to figure if
I'm going to figure that out for you. And if
I don't, then you don't have to be hard and
and that's okay, Well we'll find It's like, I'm fine

(12:54):
if you're not hard. I don't feel any sort of
way about it. If you're still down to clown. You know,
if I know them like I feel like I do,
if I already kind of know what their thing is like,
if I know you love nipples or if I know
you love x y Z. It is kind of fun
sometimes to be like, Okay, let's get your engines revved, sweetie. Um,
but I uh yeah, no, it's it's it requires a

(13:17):
lot of a lot of patients, time consideration, and uh
that's just those are things that you and I that
girls have. Yeah, I don't have the spoons. Don't have
to care about to care about your flaccid penis, especially
not when I I just feel like I give so much.

(13:37):
I'm always hard. I am. It's just never been a
problem for me. I like, don't I don't get it.
And I just feel similarly like, um, I can't get
I'm hard right now, I'm hard right And I on
the flip side, um can't really get hard for the
boner deterrence aforementioned. And so you know, you just you

(13:59):
just pop up viagara, much like Samantha in season two
of is that season two of Sex in the City. Yeah,
I watched it the other night because after I finished
and just like that, what did I do? I started
watching Sex in the City. I'm Samantha getting addicted to
VIAGRAA is actually one of the funniest things that's ever
happened on Sex in the City, her singing operatically as
the guy Fox her Yeah, comedy go. She did that

(14:24):
a couple of times. She sort of had an operatic
crescendo more than one. She's kind of giving some and
she's also kind of you being Hello, Hello, don't are

(14:51):
you there? God? It's me Missus Doubtfire? Hello? Hello? Why?
Why that? Why that is? Why is it so funny?
Because it is? Because it is? Um Okay, So, Missus

(15:14):
Doubtfire is a trans icon. That's where we're starting. That's
where we're starting. Definitive statement, fully supported by every person
on this podcast by on iHeartRadio Incorporated llc UM critics,
all podcasts were aware. Yes, yes, Missus Doubtfire is a

(15:37):
trans icon. Yes, before Disclosure, there was Missus before Doubtfire
featured in Disclosure. Yeah it is. It is because let's
in a negative way, right, yeah, so is this ship
is we versions? We are so excited to do that.

(16:00):
As we've said before, Missus Doubtfire was a primordial episode
of this podcast, a pre eminent practice episode that rosen
I did. Um So rosen I were not virgins to
this movie. Obviously it is. It is as Monocultures and
one of the formative films of my childhood. It's also

(16:20):
the reason i'm trans It's the reason it's the reason
I'm trans. No. When I went, when I went to
callen Lord fateful day in February, I said, give me
the Missus Doubtfire special stat when I when I go
to Spain for my ffs, I'm showing them a photo
of Missus Doubtfire. Um of m Euphagenia doubtfire if Agenia. Yeah. Um, okay,

(16:46):
so wait I we're jumping up going back. So um
missus Doutfire obviously was mentioned in disclosure in a negative way.
And yeah, it does belong to this era of just
to like level set with visions. It does belong to
this era of movies where men dressing up as women.
Whether it was like um, Big Mama's House. Yeah, quote

(17:07):
quote unquote Big Mama's House, Um tutsie, which I've actually
never seen. Um, Like these movies were in like men
dressing up as women are like hiding out as women. Um.
And that's like the gag was like, you know, the
peak of comedy and it was still is still still is.

(17:28):
Oh I don't care, And this is if this is
the episode that finally guts us canceled, you know, be
it so, be it so for anyone who is a
virgin to missus doubtfire. It is in nineteen ninety three
UM comedy starring Robin Williams, who is daddy, Let's be clear.

(17:50):
And also in this film is Mommy is mother mother?
So um so it starts Robin Williams, also Sally Field
icon brasnin Harvey Fierstein like this cast is stacked. It
was directed by UM Chris Columbus, who also directed the
home alone films the first two Harry Potter movies jk Rowling,

(18:14):
jk Rowling, UM Connection, It's all It's it's all connected.
This this was the film that radicalized jk Rowling as
as a rad film. I was gonna say that's that's
Actually the only thing that connects us to to jk
Rowling is that we this is both our favorite films. Yeah,
for very different reasons, for very different reasons. Yeah, but

(18:37):
there's some overlaps. So the movie. The movie is about UM,
a man named, quote unquote, man named Daniel Hillard who
um you know. He He and his wife Sally Field
UM have three kids. And their marriages and trouble and
he's a voice actor, like I think, like the opening
of the film is so iconic where he's doing, um,

(18:59):
the the animation dubbing and um, you know, sally Field
decides to divorce him and he is, you know, not
not going to be allowed to see his kids, and
so as a way to get to spend time with them,
m he finds out that sally Field is looking for
a nanny and he creates, with the help of his

(19:19):
brother Harvey Fierstein, this character of missus Doubtfire, who's this
older English like the perfect like quintessential older English lady
who you know, comes in and cares for the children
and sort of like, um, changes everyone everyone's lives for
the better, but it's actually their dad. In drag bootleg

(19:40):
transsexual Mary Poppins is kind of like what is happening
a little bit? Yes, um and um, you know this
film was a huge, a huge success. It grossed four
hundred and forty one point three million dollars on a
twenty five million dollar budget. Um, I did not know that. Yes,

(20:04):
as Phoebe just said, the best drag show in the world,
the most successful drag show in history, RuPaul wishes, and
it really is a film that has I think stood
the test of time. It was made into a physical
that I don't think was super successful. It's one of
my favorite nineties movies. It I think at the time

(20:27):
like spoke to me as a child, like I of
course I could make jokes about you know, like the
cross drive site and transniss of it all. But I
think the thing that I really um liked about it
as a kid was thought it was a story about
a family going through a divorce, and I'm a child
of divorce, oh and so, and I think like particularly that,

(20:48):
particularly this time in the nineties, there was a I
don't I don't know a lot of people from that
time my life whose parents didn't get divorced. And so
I think maybe like this was the right moment for
this movie in the culture. And something else that I
think should be noted and part of why I think
the reason Missus Doutfire stands the test of time. But

(21:10):
despite being quote unquote problematic in some ways, is that
Robin Williams is there's no one who can do what
he does what he did and does in this movie
so expertly and perfectly like he has an unpredictability and
so many of the things that he says on screen
are completely improvised. M And I don't know. Yeah, I

(21:32):
just I'm sorry Phoebe Phoebe, Phoebe just dropping in the
chat that she had that that I wanted Sally Field
and Missus Doutfire to hook up, which like, listen, we
can find you that fan fiction or that fan art.
Sure it exists to back up rows. When you do
you remember like first seeing this movie, Yeah, I'm pretty

(21:52):
sure I saw it in theaters. Okay, do you remember, like,
even if it wasn't that viewing, do you remember just
how the movie made you feel as a kid, because
I feel like I can kind of pinpoint it. Yeah,
I um loved. I have a very you know, vivid
memories of especially that opening scene where he's in the

(22:14):
recording booth, and I think like this was one of
the first times that Robin Williams became, um, you know,
a figure in my childhood, like through this film. Um,
I think mostly like my experience of it were impressions
like Missus Doubtfire with the cake on her face, and um,

(22:35):
Pierce Brosnan getting out of the pool was like an
early like erotic memory of mine and um, you know,
Sally Field kind kind of being like the shrill like
working mom was very I mean, um, not not I
wouldn't want to say true to my own life experience,
but like it was certainly familiar. Um, and yeah, I

(22:58):
just thought like this was there. I do think there
was like kind of a golden age of like family
comedies around this time, because they think later those morphed
into in the later nineties, those morphed into rom coms.
And this was really like fun for the whole family

(23:20):
and it was like specifically a family story and there
wasn't really any romance in it. And that's something kind
of amazing about it, as like a cultural object. Is
that me some a kid who was like so so
sheltered somehow this was like slipped through the c This
is something that all parents, so many different backgrounds still

(23:43):
wanted to watch even though it's about like a cross stresser,
and um, you know, in terms of like my earliest memories,
I do I watched it with my family. Like, my
family loved this movie. There was nothing kind of like
weird or problematic about it. But I remember the moment
where Robin Williams goes over to Harvey Harvey Fierstein's house, right,

(24:04):
and he's a fagot and they're putting him in drag
and I remember being like, what the fuck is happening?
Like what's going on? Like it like seminal like gender
things in me were terrified. I was like, this is
so scary and I've never seen this before. That scene
definitely wasn't awakening, and I think for me what it

(24:25):
was was, I it was my first experience of, even
though I didn't recognize that at a time, seeing other
queer people having a shared language and wanting to understand
the things that they were referencing, Like when she looked
kind of like Barbara and they started singing make a Match,

(24:48):
I was like, wait what. I want to know what
that's from, Like I want to know where these inside
jokes are coming from. And that, I think is like
an experience that all queer people have in common. And
one of the things that you know, like unifies us
as a community is like our taste and the pieces
of culture that we pick out for ourselves. Um and

(25:12):
I think that scenes specifically, like even though rub Williams
in this movie is not queer allegedly, although I think
an argument could be made, and maybe we'll try to
make that argument episode. The graduate thesis is that we
could pull up right now that people would have probably written,
but that to me felt like you know, some gay's

(25:33):
key keying hmm, And it was, and it was also
very satisfying. Makeup Vermontage as well. Oh, the most satisfying. Yeah,
it's like that, and Pretty Woman. I think we're like
the like pro too early nineties movie makeo Vermontages. Yeah,
Princess Diaries was early ots right, because that was also

(25:54):
very satisfying makeo Vermontage. So when we rewatched it, the
things that we were latching onto are we're trans, We're

(26:16):
trans you know what I mean? This is you know there.
I think there are a few readings of this film,
Like there is like the very literal reading of what
it is. There's also a very drag reading of this film.
And there's also a ter reading. There's a turf reading
of this film. And I do think there's a trans

(26:36):
reading of this film because because um, you know, there
is there is a way you could look at this
film and say, like this person is um, you know,
experiencing gender euphoria by inhabiting this you know, female presentation
that at the end of the movie, Like, I think

(26:59):
the interesting thing about this movie is that it doesn't
end with Missus Doubtfire being cast off. She still exists
through the end of the film, and like it almost
is like, you know, Daniel has emerged with Missus Doubtfire.
And I do think like in a sequel film is
maybe like he is, she is living full time as

(27:22):
a Jenia Doubtfire. Oh yes, oh yes, I mean she's
if she's a star as if a Jenia, then she's
a star. Okay, let's keep it there. Um, Like I think,
I think, I think, Um, Missus Doubtfire is like the
pro to like trans show girl, like starts off doing
drag and then and then transitions. Yeah, and had to

(27:43):
do it in secret, right, Like when she was doing drag,
no one knew she was doing drag and drag and
and a lot of you know drag drag art firms
at the time. It's like you had to be incognito,
you had to cause play as a woman, like you
had to be a quote unquote cross dresser. And let's say,
the order to be viable by culture and let's say
this Missus Doubtfire, unclockable, unclockable. Not a single person clock

(28:09):
Turte never, never, single person in this clock Turte. If
only I could, if only I could be as unclockable,
if only I could pass as hard as Missus Doubtfire
Halloween costume. This year, maybe I will be Missus dolfire, considering,
considering that you're like previous best Halloween costume is also

(28:32):
that of an old woman old rose? Is that the
secret to being is that the secret to passing like
to be elderly? Elderly? Yeah, it's because like there is
something about age that's like a little it's like so
gendered while also being like a little post gender. That

(28:54):
maybe is the sweet spot of unclockability. Yeah, I mean yeah.
Look when Alexis Stone puts on that Missus Doubtfire drive
for the fucking Valenciaga show Unclockable, no one would ever
look twice at her. Okay, um yeah, I oh god,
I she is. I really do. I would never want

(29:16):
a reboot of this movie, but I would no, no, no,
no never, no. I don't want them to touch it.
It would be so bad it would make woke. Yes,
they would try to make a chance they would try
to make a woke And also this just this movie
can't really exist without Robin Williams. It's just there's no
one that can do a version of it. There's no
one who can take what Robin did and do something
different like it just it can't be done. But like

(29:38):
I do, I do think the fashion is great, and
that's something that's like kind of funny about Alexis Stone
as Missus Doubtfire. Now it's like the old lady like
floral print thing is in like Granny is in. Yes,
let's be clear, Missus Doubtfire was serving kunt. She's serving
you cut she's giving cunt to cut um. Is this

(30:00):
your favorite Robin Williams performance? No, just because Aladdin was
a very formative object in like my childhood between me
and my mom when I was like like five six,
like my earliest one of my earliest cultural memories is
watching Aladdin. And I love that you latched onto the

(30:21):
first scene when he's doing all these voices, because all
the voices that Robin Williams does in that scene are
one probably a lot of them are improvised. But two, actually,
I'm pretty sure I remember watching something about Robin Williams
and learning that many of those voices are actually improvised.
But in Aladdin as well, a lot of those lines

(30:42):
are improvised, and they like did the animation around it.
And I just think that what Robin does as a
voice actor specifically, which is again showcased, if not kind
of um, it's like a kind of cipher for Robin
Williams as a character in a little bit in a
few ways as a very talented voice actor that like,
his ability to vacillate between so many different personalities is

(31:06):
like fucking cool, Like it's and when you watch him
do it on the mic, you're like, how is he
doing that? And I think that that was encapsulated in Aladdin?
What about you? Is that I'm assuming this is your face?
It is missus Daalfhier, although I will say I'll Thoria
Curveball and say that a close second for me is
one of his rare dramatic roles. Have you ever seen

(31:29):
What Dreams May Come? No? What is that? Okay? What
Dreams May Come is this movie that was on HBO
like all the time when I was a kid, or
like maybe Showtime or Cinemax, And it's a film in
which Robin Williams dies and goes to Heaven and his
like Guardian angel Is I think played by Cuba Gooding Jr.

(31:50):
But then his wife, who's still alive, kills herself and
goes to Hell, and so he leaves Heaven and goes
to Hell to say of her. And it's it's a
very like, really visually stunning movie. And it wasn't probably
a flop, but I really appreciate it. You know, I've
never seen Dead Poets Society. Oh, you wouldn't like it

(32:13):
that much, but I don't. It's like a it's like
a slow It's just it's a slow, sad movie about
like masculinity and pedagogy and like mentorship. Oh pass, Yeah,
gorgeously written, like really, earnest Um doesn't really it's a
it's a doesn't really have a lot of laughs. A
lot it doesn't have. It doesn't have the Robin Williams

(32:36):
kind of characterizations. It has the Robin Williams who had depth,
the Robin Williams who you know was sitting with so
much darkness that we never really knew about as well. Yeah,
I did. Used to watch Mork and Mindy a lot
when it was on that's the gay one. It's well,
I mean kind of he's an alien, so like, oh right,

(32:58):
you know, maybe he's kind of gay. Adams has played
gay before, and something were going, do you think Robin
Williams is hot? Because I do. I think he's so sexy.
The only time I thought that Robin was hot was
when I was seeing some of a lot of these
kind of whenever we see like occasional tributes to Robin

(33:18):
Williams or like no one did it like Robin Williams,
Like I love this air where everyone's like yeah, like
Robin Williams was out here wearing like JPG and like yes,
like great fashion, like gender bending like on on these
kind of step and repeats and red carpet moments looking
fine like but also having a point of view in
men's style that no one else had. He was very daddy.

(33:41):
He was he was uncle. He was so uncle. He
oh wait, that is so on the nose rose like.
He was not giving daddy, he was giving uncle. He
was so uncle for that. He was Unkey's uncle Ronnie's
New Horror. He's the uncle in Uncle Ronnie's New hor
Real real virgin will get that reference. Um. He like

(34:04):
he's so he's so hairy and like he's a little
short and like the glasses. Um, I think he's kind
of sexy in Jumanji. Jumanji is another great Robin Williams movie. Same, yeah,
I loved Jumanji growing up. Do you think Missus Doubtfire
is a dike? Yeah, absolutely, like the honey she plays

(34:25):
soccer like she is a soccer diema. Okay. Oh Phoebe
also said he was kind of gay and flubber, which
is totally true. Another movie. I was allowed to watch
almost any Robin Williams movie growing up, and I did
watch that movie. Um yeah, wait, you know what part
I love and Missus Doubtfire is when Missus Doubtfire is
like kind of getting drunk and the guy starts hitting

(34:47):
on her and her her leg hair is showing, and
the guy's like like, fine with me, Fine with me,
I'm into it. Hey, I like that you're like that,
And I think I think Missus Delfire was like, I
think it's very much like um person who transitions and
like has historically been straight or like only into women,

(35:09):
and then you know, through experimenting with gender they start
to find that there, you know, sexuality is a bit
more fluid. Yeah exactly. I mean that wasn't the conversation,
but like that's the conversation we're having right now. Um,
I'm dread obviously, Like so I feel like rose between

(35:29):
you and I and the history of this podcast, the
moment where we were like, oh, this is the funniest
movie on the planet is obviously when Missus Delfire plunges
her face into a cream pie. I do think it
was coconut cream pie key lime, Yeah, coconut key lime.
A moment it was it was it was actually a
Sunday riley or lemon merangue pie. Maybe it's probably lemon

(35:53):
merangue yeah, um yeah, yeah exactly. And I don't know what,
but something happened between you and I, Rose, something happened
that like singed us together like that. That's when that's
when she says hello, can we do another? One? One, two, three? Hello?

(36:15):
And and it was just like it was, Um, nothing
has ever been funnier, nothing in the film has ever
been funnier than Missus Doltfire saying hello, Yes, it's ineffable,
it's in effigenia, it's it is it is like really
like it was just fucking it was just funny, and
and I think that, honestly, part of the reason that

(36:36):
Rose and I are being like a little trolley is
because there is something absurdly funny about like a man
dressing up as a woman and like being the hero
of the story by way of like tricking, tricking, if
not like usurping non consensually, his like friends family loved
ones um in a way that like turfs, hey, you know,

(36:59):
in the way that turfs like demonize and in ways
that in this part of culture were monocultural. It's also
very like Shakespearean almost, It's like a little like Moliere,
like French farce. Oh yeah, a comedy of errors, you know,
like yeah, yeah, yeah, and the drag of it all,

(37:21):
the scene at the restaurant where he has to keep
where she has to keep, she has to keep, you know,
getting in and out of her guiche the whole time,
the whole time. You know. Obviously, like a lot of

(37:49):
what we're saying about missed out hard being a trans
movie or like a little tongue in cheek, But there
are so many parts of it that I look back
at now and resonate with me so strongly, Like the
scene with irony with no irony, like the scene where
um missus Doubtfire's son clocks her tea when she sees
her standing up and peeing. Yes, like that is trans

(38:15):
experience trans not honestly, nothing is like more gender affirming
and more gender destroying than like lifting like the lifting
my skirt up at a urinal to piss, which obviously
like I have not done in a very long time.
It's like real, It's like I think the last time
I did it was like at the Glad Awards in
twenty nineteen. I think I saw that photo. Um, I yeah,

(38:42):
I I you know, to be transparent, ip sitting down,
but I but I do. But it is trans It
is like there's there is a thing where it's just
like that is a thing, that's a that's that's a thing,
and we immediately latch onto it. Um yeah, I think
that that kind of namable, that unnamable trans quality is

(39:03):
just I definitely saw it as a kid and also
understand it also much like Missus Delfire, I do put
on a full set of prosthetics every day before I
go outside, and that's you know, that's what makes it
even harder when I do get miss gendered because it's like,
what the fuck did I fucking glue all the ship

(39:24):
to my face for? Yeah? Um the double DS and
a top and bottom of Veneers that I have on
right now? You are still calogging me, how dare Missus
Doubtfire was giving? Body? Do you? Okay? Okay? If we're
looking at Missus Doubtfire Okay. We talked a little bit
about like from a trans perspective, but I think a
lot of drag queens love Missus Doubtfire as a drag figure,

(39:49):
and like there's certainly so much there in the in
the movie to support that reading or like that legacy
that she has. M your actu actually pointing out something
that I think is, dare I say, missing from this movie,
which is Missus Doubtfire musical number right? That could? That
could and should have happened. And I think that we

(40:12):
were even though we did get a little bit of
like Robin Williams singing, we really needed Missus Doubtfire original song.
You know what I mean? Wait, you know what I
didn't even think about when we were talking about how
hot Robin Williams is. The hottest he was was in
the Birdcage when he was gay. That's when he was
the gayest. We forgot that he actually did play gay

(40:36):
opposite Nathan Lane, and he was so he was like
giving like Versacci, like like chest hair, gold chain, like
sleazy Miami vibes. It was Versacci. Yeah, And I so
I've only seen that movie once, but like that movie,
like really like the gayness of it all, Like Robin

(41:00):
Williams ken I was gonna say, can say baggett Um,
I'm not gonna say that, though I'm gonna say Robin Williams,
I'll say he can say baggett we can say too. No.
He was so he was so effortless in a gay role.
He had no qualms and had no was unfazed by
the task of being gay. But I've only seen that

(41:23):
movie once, and I just remember the plot of the
movie is like insane, right, like what's the it is movie?
The plot of the movie is that, um, they're this
gay couple who own um a nightclub in Miami. Their
son is getting married, but um, his bride to be
his parents don't know that his dads are gay. I
mean it's based off Lakaja Foe. And so when the

(41:45):
parents come to visit Nathan Lane, um dresses in drag
to you know, play, so to pretend that they are
a hetero couple. So it's like Christine Bransky. Yes, so
it's another So I would actually say that I think
maybe the Bird Cage and Missus Doubtfire exists in the

(42:09):
same cinematic universe. So Nathan Lane and Robin Williams like
broke up. Robin Williams married Sally Field and then the
plot of Missus Dolfire happened, and he was like, wait, wait, wait,
this worked once before it could work again. I thought
you were gonna say that, like after Nathan you know,
had this like stint. After Nathan Lane had this stint

(42:30):
as as dressing up as a woman, he realized she
realized transitioned Field. Yes, no, no, no, no, no, I
was gonna say she transitioned to whatever, you know, her
new name was. I don't know what herr her like
kind of drag name was in um the bird Cage,
but I was gonna say she transitioned. And then later
in Robin Williams's wife later after Sally Field happened, she

(42:52):
transitioned as well. And now Missus Doubtfire and Nathan Lane
as a woman are a T for T couple. Couple.
That's where I thought you were going. Um, I would
support that. I think, thank you, that works well. Um.
Something else that's amazing about um the Birdcage was Christine
Baranski playing a homophobe. They're like, need to be more

(43:12):
movies and TV shows where Broadway divas play homophobes, like
Patty Lapone has done in HS Yes and I Pose
and in Ugly Betty Yes typecasting yes, typecasting much. Yeah.
I mean Laon is a little bit of a homophobe
with like the amount of gaze screaming at her all day,

(43:35):
every day, her entire life. In the words of Madonna,
she would kill fags who hate women period. Like yeah,
I think that, Like, um, yeah, Patty, any sort of
diva that wants to play homophobe can because she's earned
that right as a lauded diva. So I never saw
the Missus Doubtfire musical that was either just on the

(43:55):
West End or was maybe also on Broadway. We need
to see it and no, I oh oh, so I'm
I'm There's a couple of fun facts here on the
Missus Doutfire Wikipedia page. A young Blake Lively was almost
one of the children. So what okayo you know? Um,

(44:17):
Warren Beady m was almost Missus Doubtfire um, and also
Tim Allen was almost Missus Doubtfire but turned down both
the roles, probably because he is as as he's a
horrible person and I think he's like a conservative like
Trump supporter. Now, yeah, he's He's a huge, huge Fox
newser He was the one of the first celebrities to

(44:39):
say that coming out as a Republican is like harder
than like coming out as gay or whatever. Coming out
as a Republican in Hollywood means that like no one
will ever work with you again, and that's like why
we don't see Tim Allen projects anymore, which like I'm
grateful for, but Tim Allen unfortunately did raise me like
we were a home improvement family. I wonder if I'm
trying to think if there's anything in the culture now

(45:01):
rose that like exemplifies what I'm going to try and
talk about. But I do think that this era not
just the era of comedies where men dressed up as women,
but like era of comedies that are kind of body snatchy,
like hot Chick or white Chicks or I was gonna

(45:21):
say Freaky Friday, but like ones were like you like
a man is trapped in a woman's body, things like that.
Like I think people are afraid of those narratives now,
and yet they are really funny. I've actually I've I
haven't seen it since like middle school. Like White Chicks
is so good. Did you see that video that's been
going around on Twitter of the dance battle scene from

(45:42):
White Chicks and they're dancing to songs from the new
Caroline Policheck album White Chicks. We should have a guest
on to break down White Chicks for us, because like
that is a movie that I did watch like a
year a year, year and a half ago, and as
someone who you know doesn't need to like make critique
on this movie might as a passing as observation, I
was like this was ahead of its time in so

(46:06):
many ways, Like it was like a it was like
get out level like cultural commentary that I think went
under the radar because it was also extremely stupid. But
you know what, some of the stupidest movies have some
of the most incisive things to say about the world.
Euch like Missus Doubtfire sort of predicted the gender discourse

(46:30):
we would be having decades later. When Missus Doubtfire stood
to piss at that toilet, she pissed all over Stone
this heteronormativity, Um all over JK rolling space. Yeah exactly. Um,
did you are you gonna see? Are we going to
see Sally Field in eighty for Brady? No? Oh, we

(46:53):
already we We've talked about a sports movie. It's not
a sports movie. It is a sports movie. It's about
old ladies. I'm not about football. I'm not seeing it.
It's about football the way like Space Jam is about
like basketball. And I don't like Space Jam because of
that Space Jam is. I also don't think I'm not
a Space Jam girl. But I don't know. Um my vibe,

(47:15):
but I do. I do love Sally Field. Um, what
are what are some of your other favorite Sally Field performances?
I don't know. If I can only think of Missus
Doubtfire and eighty for Rady, my favorite performance is eighty
for Rady. I don't know. I don't know if I'm
seeing Sally Field in anything but Missus Doutfire, And like

(47:40):
I know, she has like a long history of incredible
filmwork and well, honestly, her oscars acceptance speech is her
greatest performance, like that, Oh yeah, you like me, you
really like me. I love Sally Field, but the fact
that her rebound from what Robin Williams was literally Pierce
Brasen in literally James Bond is just slightly unbelievable. Yeah,

(48:06):
I mean the comically attractive like new Boyfriend Trope is
like endlessly funny to me, and Pierce Brosnin is like
comically attractive in this movie. Isn't there a moment? Isn't
there a moment where okay, what there's a there's a
scene where Pierce Brosnin and Missus Doubtfire are interacting at
like what a beach club or like a pool like

(48:29):
a yeah, do you remember this? Like a country club? Yeah,
isn't doesn't mean like have the hots for her something
or no, he but he he comes up to the
bar to like talk to her and kind of you know,
he's trying to like get get get in with her
because he's you know, romancing Sally Field. M A lingering question.
Do you think that one of the children of Missus

(48:51):
Doubtfire grows up to be a serial killer because of
how a scarred they are from this experience? Not a
serial killer, but like they definitely like, you know, grew
up to write like a kind of wait, who is
that child actor that just wrote the memoir that everyone's reading. Oh,
I'm glad my mom died? Yeah, who was Jenette McCurdy? Yeah,

(49:14):
I see, I see one of these kids growing up
and writing like a Janette McCurdy s like I'm glad
my dad transitioned. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. Yes, that is
the book that I add that I want to read.
And it's kind of like this is all my trauma
and yet it was all for the better. You know.
Um that I think is the story that I want
to read. So um, you know in the Realm of

(49:36):
Cross Dressing, you know, Harvey fire scene is in this
movie who would go on to originate the role of
Ed Turnblood on Broadway And Hairspray, um, which is another
like obviously iconic, you know, gender fuckery musical, much like
the film which starred Divine and as we've said on
this pod before, John Travolta's last significant performance, which is bizarre,

(50:01):
Well yeah, John, okay, so missus doubtfire walked. So John
Travolta in Hairspray could run that's not that's not at
all a joke, that is not absolutely to know I'm
being one hundred percent. And also I will say John
Travolta was also uncompable as editor and bloods. I don't know,

(50:23):
I don't know, I don't know about that. But and
that's movie magic. Well, slide intoward d MS at Like
a Virgin four twenty sixty nine and tell us your
thoughts about missus Doubtfire. Do you think it's an iconic
drag film, an iconic trans film? Um? Do you think? Um?

(50:48):
If a Jenia Doubtfire waits in line for her estra
dialet calan lord or she an aputure girl? Or does
she go to a private practice? Um? And as always,
please make sure to follow us, engage with us. We
love seeing your little comments and messages. You can do
that on our burner at Like a Virgin for twenty

(51:10):
sixty nine. I'm your co host, Rose Damn You. You
can find me anywhere online at Rose Damn You and
I am Fran Toronto. You can find me at France,
Qushko and Rima on social. Like a Virgin is an
iHeartRadio production. Our producer is Phoebe Unter with support from
Lindsay Hoffman and Nikki Etre until next week. Goodbye, Goodbye,