Greta Gerwig's Drag Race (feat. Hari Nef)

• A conversation about David Lynch's Mulholland Drive with actress Hari Nef ends up also being about old seasons of Drag Race, the forthcoming Barbie movie, the special relationship between gay men and dolls, Fire Island and Sex and the City
• Plus, Fran & Rose's thoughts on the current season of Drag Race, including that Kate Bush lip sync

If you loved this conversation with Hari, subscribe to our Patreon for moreof it, exclusive to subscribers! $5 a month! Or if you're broke follow our finsta @likeavirgin42069

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:03):
You are a mysterious woman, elusive, and you're also she's
she any not me, not on my mate? Yo, yo yo,
what is your child mother? Yo's going down the stoor

(00:28):
like Welcome to Like a Virgin, the show where we
give yesterday's pop culture, today's takes, I'm ros Damo and
I'm Fran Toronto and versions. If you haven't yet, you

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merch Buying that youre l was one of the most
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also be said, you know, I'm realizing now patron not
a very gender friendly word. Maybe maybe y'all are matrons.

(01:37):
Maybe maybe there's an option to be a patron and
an option to be. I mean, we can't actually do that,
but like just like just because it's we're gonna start,
We're gonna start a competing service called Matron. Yeah, Matreon, yeah,
zam Matreon z Oh god, you know what thing is?

(01:59):
I'm sure that exists. Yeah, and it's just like extremely
flop tina. Yeah, they only sell like fluid fluid beauty products. Oh,
flow fluid beauty. Can't wait to see what they cook
up from Pride this year? This year? Oh my god,
how are you feeling about Pride? All things considered? Are
you getting any inquiries yet? Are you? Are? You know?

(02:21):
And let me tell you my DMS and my email
are open for any and all opportunities. Yes, I'm very
very bookable. I'm very submissive and bookable. Maybe that'll be
a hot um Yeah, no it should be. I mean, honestly, virgins,
if you want a crowdsource and and give us feedback

(02:42):
on the merch like an item you want, we're already
seeing some cool suggestions. And also, if you're a Patreon subscriber,
you are welcome to tell us what you want to
hear from our Patreon. You cannot tell us what you
want to hear if you don't subscribe. Once you get on,
you get absolutely no. Once you get on, you can
tell us what's missing. Um, yeah, that's that's something we're

(03:03):
going to figure out. Um. Down the road is like,
you know, a lot of Patreon people are like on
Discord or whatever, and like we're just we're just not
going to do that. But we we we talked to
the people at Patreon. They were like, um, are you
interested in you know, Discord, And we were like, no,
heart emoji, yeah, I'm good, love and enjoy. Um. We

(03:24):
do want to engage with you, though, and we want
to find a way to do that in a cool
social chatty way. And so you know, we're developing that
as we go. But Discord, it's gonna be a no
from me, dog, It's gonna be a no no no
no no no no no no no wait. How does
jesse j do it? No no no no no no
no no no no. I can't I can't do it.
No one can do it. But um, we also have

(03:46):
to acknowledge what you heard just before we started talking
was a brand new theme song, which was is song
of the Summer, iconic. It absolutely song of the Summer.
We have already submitted it to the Grammys, to the
Recording Academy, and um, it's gonna win rock the vote.

(04:09):
Life Marks did say we're going to EGA and that
will be the gum. Well she said we were going
to win an Oscar and I said, oh, right, right right,
you're all that you will, but that's because you're about
those stretch goals, you know. Yes. And also Katie from
Muna said that she would absolutely read the romance novel
you know of the cover of our new show art

(04:30):
and I told her she should also write a song
for the adaptation of the like a Virgin romance novel.
My jaws dropped because like all of the ideas were
just flowing through my head. First of all, we just
need a virgin to write that fan fiction. So like,
if you want to take this, I mean you have
I you of my concept and the virgins are clearly
interested in this concept because I'll okay, we'll give you

(04:52):
a little tease on something that you hear on Patreon.
We had a question about um fran and I's possibly
overlapping ven diagram sexual history right, and um, we won't
be spilling any details there. Those are Paywald but if
you want to hear if fran and I are you know,
sister wives or just wives? Yea you Patreon dot com

(05:16):
slash like a virgin. Yes, but if you want a
ghost write this novella, we're here for it, Katie. If
you want to write an original song for the like
a virgin pulp fiction lesbian romance, we I mean, that's
right up your alley. That's truly like, that is muna,
that is something. Can you imagine us? Can you imagine
us doing a love scene in a film? I can,

(05:37):
because obviously we would play ourselves. Yeah, we would play ourselves.
Although you know, according to gen Z, I don't know
if you're aware of all this gen Z like puritine discourse,
they want all sex scenes banned from film? What then? Yes,
so Z has gen Z has decided that, um, it's

(05:58):
a weird and grow to simulate sex in film at
all times a like period, and that there should only
be sort of you know, fade to Black PG thirteen
love scenes and no sex should take place ever. And
if you're interested in seeing that, you're a perv. Yeah,
I mean that's stupid. Obviously, I also like very stupid.

(06:22):
You and I are very like we resist a lot
of gen Z bashing on this podcast sometimes because it
just like ages us so hard. So I will say,
like some of jay Z, I'm sure there are a
lot of slutty jay Z people out there, jay Z
slutty gen Z jay Z slutty gen Z folks out there,
and they're probably listening to this podcast. But like, listen, girls,

(06:42):
if you are a member of Generation Z and you
don't Generation Z, as British people would yes Generations said,
if you don't think that we should be having sex
scenes and films and TV shows like it's just your
light year life, your prudishness is going to have such
a rude awakening when you enter the world because like,

(07:05):
we're all out here fucking and doing drugs like that's
we are all fucking and sucking, fucking sing and except
very sexual people and people that tend to have prudish
ideas about sex are usually people that aren't having a
ton of search. I'm not gonna joy And I feel
like I, as someone who was extremely prudish when I
was young, definitely had a bit of a culture shock

(07:25):
when I, you know, entered gay World and then later
on trans World and I'm like, oh, like, there's no
room for being a prude here, Like you don't have
to be a big old, come guzzling slut. Yes, And
I just want to say to me, it does not
there does not seem to be a huge leap and
ideology from there should be no sex scenes in movies too,

(07:48):
there should be no drag queen story hours. Like just
kind of think about which side of history you're trying
to be on me very very flattening. It's very very unfun.
It's just an unfun take, Isn't it crazy? How timely
this week's episode of Drag Race ended up being with
the drag loose of it all, like coming amidst you

(08:11):
know what felt, especially in the past like week or two,
the boiling point of all the conversations around drag and
you know, like legislation to criminalize it. I was shook.
I mean obviously, like we've been screaming about trans health
care for kids like for years and obviously this like

(08:33):
mainstream of attack on drag has been happening for a while.
But yeah, it was like kind of crazy because the
boiling point where you know, Melissa McCarthy and all these
like you know, Padre Pascal. All these celebrities are posting
on it, like a few Sundays ago happening right in
tandem with this, like you know, PSA on drag Race
that they filmed what a year ago, year and a

(08:55):
half ago, Like that's I was. I was shook, but
I guess it's kind of also sad that message is
just always relevant, it is. I thought it was a
very good rusical. Yeah, I mean I usually love the rusicals,
and this was a standout. I don't necessarily think it
was a standout in terms of how it was performed,

(09:17):
but the actual songs themselves. I mean it was no
all stars to iconic Queens through History moment, but it
was you know up there. Yeah, I felt the same.
I definitely like there were some boring there were some
people that were like boring, but like I thought everyone
was great, Like I didn't think anybody was bad, And

(09:40):
I also felt, to be totally honest, like Selena Stitis
was amazing and added great, was like so good on
choreo and was really emotive in the rusical specifically, which
is why I'm like, where does the runway matter? Like
if it's like a bit of a wash on the rusical,
like let's incorporate Runway into this critique and it feel
like they're just like playing the producer game or whatever.

(10:03):
But did you see that video of Selena as Titti's
dragging Ross Matthews. I did, She's not wrong? Who who?
I think that a lot when I'm looking at you know,
Carson Cressley and Ross Matthews, like literally, who are they
to be talking about what people wear? And and I
say this as like, I really love Selena as Titties.

(10:24):
I thought I was so im I was rooting for
in the beginning, so happy with what she contributed to
the season. I really wish she was wearing something else
when she said that PSA because she like I was like,
it's like you can't shout about fashion and like wear
this like busted channel knockoff that like doesn't fit you properly. Um,
but I I love And my favorite genre of content

(10:46):
is a queen, you know, slandering the show against their
nondisparagement agreements, like I'm thinking about have you seen that
video of Gia Gunn where she's like completely naked in
a gay bar and go, yeah, fucking miss RuPaul. Have
you seen that. Um, yes, so it's so good. Um

(11:06):
you were not happy with the Kate Bush lip sync though,
I mean I wasn't either. I think Kate Bush should
storm into the studio and demand both of their heads
on a platter. Yeah, and then take a shit on
their into their skulls and set them on fire. If

(11:30):
you're got to give us Park and Bark, you gotta
give us emotion. You gotta give us like, uh, just
the thing that they constantly seemed to be forgetting, especially
Lucy Leduca, who you know I hate. Who I know
that you hate is that they're doing drag like you're
doing drag drag, Like, be a drag queen. Don't just

(11:52):
like your lip sync in your bedroom like I was
getting bedroom lip sync, Like, make a choice and make
it extreme. It's like the same thing with Lucy and
her fucking non existent Beyonce baby bump. I should be
able to see that baby bump from space. Yes, back,
you are a drag queen. I should be able to

(12:15):
see your Kate Bush lip sync from the back of
the club. Yeah. Agree. I mean it's hard, it's hard
to like, it's hard to root for Lucy when she's
like so like I'm the best time to shit, I
should be winning all these challenges and she's so not
like she is mediocre, like she Luck's new arms track,

(12:40):
Lucks the woman that you are. I this week she
made me follow her on Twitter. H it was fucking honestly,
she is she a good Twitter follow have you have
you seen? I don't know, I haven't looked might but
I did follow. I did follow her. Um, she made
me watch on talked. I haven't done that all this season. Yeah,
you know what. It was kind of disappointing. It wasn't

(13:02):
as dramatic as I was hoping it would be. But
that was an iconic runway moments when she car no
reason when she went down the line complimented every girl
and then read Lucy Luduca to filth like she she
it's very law roach going. You ain't that? Oh God,

(13:26):
I'm like, okay, here's here's my honest thoughts on Lucy.
I I have a lot of empathy for the try
hard girls, right like she's getting a jan at it
and I have I personally identify with with the jan
at it and yeah, because you're because you're a little
bit of a jam. I love to try hard. It
is a terrible downfall of mine. It makes me look

(13:48):
like a loser a lot of the time. But like,
why would we punish people for trying really hard? Lucy, Yeah,
it's because it is fun and lux knows that. Um.
But like Lucy, like in the the room, Phoebe coming
in the chat, you'd like to try hard? Accept an
acting class? Oh my god, shut the I was there
to observe. How dare you, Phoebe? Um. I have to say, Lucy,

(14:13):
like I was breaking my heart because like if I
was on drag race and these two girls are ganging
up on me because like look looks and what's her face?
We're ganging up on her very adamantly, and I, you know,
it did definitely. I was like, this isn't shade anymore.
This is very personal. So if that happened to me, Rose,
you know what would happen. I would bug out, Like

(14:34):
I would bug out because I'd be like, people don't
really been there. Yeah, exactly, I would bug out, would
be like people don't like me and I need to
freak out. But but on the flip side of this,
you can kind of smell when the other girls don't
like a certain girl, right, it doesn't matter how good
you are. How the other girls treat you in the
room gives us information for what kind of report you

(14:54):
were building with them while this show was being filmed.
And I don't know if there have been like solidarity
footpost for like Lucy, because I imagine she's getting tons
of hate, but I thought a lot, I mean not
to like deserved. Yeah, sure, I don't believe anybody deserves
hate online because you know, it's like so horrible. But
like shell work, bullying works, Lucy does have a loose
grip on reality. It reminded me a little bit of

(15:16):
Valentina because in her first season, but Valentina was thickening yes, yes, exactly,
um slightly well, Lucy had a lot of misses, but
like a lot of her drag, especially at the beginning,
so polished, so good, the body was right like her,
she'd classic drag and I think she looked so good.
But like if although the girls don't like you, that's

(15:37):
saying something to me, And like Valentina, I stand the
whole season. And then I watched what happened in the
reunion and I was like, oh, the she the other
girls do not like her? The other she was like,
just she didn't build rapport. That's like community is so important,
that's what. Rapport is so important. Shade is so important
to like understand and balance And yeah, I don't know.

(16:00):
You're right. Community is so important. Community is stories matter.
Stories are so important. Storytelling is so powerful. Stories. Stories
are some of the most powerful stories that exist. Oh
my god, well, Um, with that, Rose, do you have

(16:21):
any thoughts ahead of our season two into like our
season two premier Season two premiere, Um sorr storring Harry enough, Yes,
Harry is of all the Diva dolls. She is definitely one,
if not the og of generation. Harry is an actress,

(16:43):
a girl about town, an it girl thinker. Truly you can.
You can find that out on her letterbox Diva. Yes
she Oh, she is a cinophile and we are not,
and we, especially me, we are not. I don't quite
remember if she like schooled us in the cinephile region,
but I definitely knew nothing about David Lynch and so

(17:04):
I'm glad we got into that. We as well as
sharing a lot more about the Barbie movie than I
thought she was going to just sick, yes, as well
as her love I think what Harry does very well
is a careful but also like Waka Doo, juxtaposition of
high brow and low brow is kind of Harry's whole stick,

(17:24):
and she does it very well. I think probably all

(17:45):
of us moved to LA when we did, you know
for some kind of santasy of the Hollywood dream, which
in watching Mulholland Drive, I definitely like saw in the
fantasy and I did like I mean it was I
watched it for the first time last night. I'd never
seen it and like, I am like somewhat of a

(18:05):
David Lynch girl, like I do love Twin Peaks, but
it was just like a cultural blind spot for me
and I it's a weird It's a weird movie. Well,
speaking of Twin Peaks, did you know that Mulholland Drive
was originally supposed to be a television show? Yes? I
read something about that, but can you expand please? He

(18:29):
shot it to be in the wake of Twin Peaks's success.
This kind of like ABC souped up glamour version of
the David Lynch dark drama pretty Girl sensation, and he
screened it for the executives and they were like, no,

(18:51):
Tino Shade, What the fuck is there? Yeah? And so
and this is what I love. He got Canal Plus
to finance the completion of Twin Peaks, I mean Mulholland
Drive as a film, which is like the French public Access.
They fund a lot of French it's it's like a

(19:12):
French company. David got that, like Foreign Overseas Art House,
which in France was public Access coin to somehow complete
this black box or should I say blue box of
a pilot that he had constructed with the original intention

(19:33):
for it to go on and on and on. And
I think, which is so crazy to think about. Yeah,
and Lynch was creating, you know, he creates, and I
think he did this with Twin Peaks. So he creates.
He sets up these narratives that he doesn't even know
where they're going. He has kind of a I guess,
a spidy sense of where it could go. He sets

(19:54):
up all the pieces, but like he doesn't know, like
who the killer is, he doesn't know whose dream it is,
He doesn't know. He doesn't know who killed Laura Palmer.
It's not about that. No, he didn't, and they forced
him to say who it was because that was the
demand of the TV audience. He didn't want to reveal that. Yeah,
and that's when the show becomes unwatchable is when you

(20:14):
know who the killer is. I mean, I guess that.
Like it makes so much sense about Mulholland Drive because
watching it, it is so like it's like a series
of vignettes, even more than it is like a narrative film.
And I really liked you know, Okay, So I will
admit at first I was very bored watching it, and

(20:34):
I was and I was on my phone, and then
it really just started to draw me in and I
was so transfixed by it. And it is such an
LA movie, and I think, like that's such a like
almost boring thing to say, because like so many movies
are LA movies. But I don't know it like it
has this hypnotic thing that I think Hollywood definitely has.

(20:59):
Hypnotic is very I think, kind of a Lynchian thing,
like there is something that kind of like grips you
into the work and then all of a sudden you're
just like, I have no idea what I'm watching a
lot of the time, but like I'm in this world
because it's so weird and you're trying to like figure
it out. What was your experience of like first watching
this movie, I guess, or why do you think it's

(21:20):
maybe a little bit emblematic of like who you are
or like what are you like to make? I think
what drew me into it was the way it felt
like a dream or a dream that I've had. It
has the logic of a dream, in the pacing of
a dream. I think that the is this boring? Oh wait,

(21:42):
now I'm like glued to the spot and I can't
look away. I think that's part and parcel to how
David Lynch deals with time. His beats do not go
snap aty snap snap snap. You know Aaron Sorkin like
dialogue moving it. It's there's very little sense of urgency. Yeah,
it takes a long time for things to happen, but

(22:04):
you get the sense that something is happening with how
the camera moves and you know, with Angelo Battle Lamentes
score kind of like leading you down into this dream path.
And also even the way that it's scripted, the way
he arranges words and the way conversations are had, it's

(22:33):
not naturalistic. It's kind of like two people in two
different dreams trying to send each other the same message
or a different message, Like that scene when they're talking
in winkies in the diner in the daytime. There's that
like score in the background that lets you know something

(22:54):
bad is happening, but you're in this like pretty pink
diner and the sun is shining. I loved that juxtaposition
of the sunshine and I guess evil or or darkness daytime.
And I think that is that is so Los Angeles
as knowing that some of the ugliest, grossest, most evil

(23:16):
things are happening in the most brightly lit possible places. Yeah,
the whole movie. I feel like maybe a lot of
his work is just very like suspended ten, Like what
if suspended tension had like no payoff, you know what
I mean. You're really like on the edge of your
seat for kind of nothing a lot of the time.
And that is you know, part of the gag. But

(23:39):
I I mean, I I fell asleep. I will not
lie because this was last night and I am but
I but when as soon as she finds as soon
as she's like, you know, she's like Rita, your friend, Rita,
you know, And and she finds out that like Rita's not.
That's when I was just like, oh, I understand, kind
of like the people always say in Hollywood, They're like,
what's the engine of this thing? Like, what's the engine?

(24:00):
And I feel like a lot of the movie was
like disinterested, I guess, in the engine and more interested
in like the characters and like the dream state of
it all and the vibe. Yeah about the vibes. Yeah, Well,
she names herself Rita after looking up at that poster
of Rita Hayworth and Gilda, which I also watched recently

(24:25):
for the first time, which is another movie about a
beautiful woman with great hair who is pretending to be
somebody she's not. So Lynch is kind of put in
it right in your face with the there is a woman,
and she's beautiful, and she's not what she seems to be,

(24:47):
and that alone is sort of the seed of what
made the femme fatale back in you know, the forties
and fifties, This idea of a woman who is tricking
you and she seems to be in control, but she's

(25:07):
really in trouble. But by the rules and standards of
the time, all of this is not a great thing
for a woman to be and quite frequently the fem
fatals were actually quite masculine, which is I think what
rendered them fatal in that sense. Even if they didn't

(25:28):
look masculine, they had these kind of like you know,
boyish or mannish ways of you know, talking or playing
people or even just maneuvering, you know, because you were
so used to seeing a kind of passive, pretty pleasing
woman at the time. Well, because what's more dangerous than
a woman who takes some of masculinity for herself cling cloves,

(25:52):
cling close and fatal attraction or just gland close in
general or something like that. Well, it's it's interesting because
mulholland Dry takes Naomi Watts's character Betty slash Diane and
kind of um dissects a single woman into kind of

(26:12):
these two ideas of what a woman should be. Instead
of like the femme fatale, you know, like the Lauren
Bacall or somebody like that, with like the big shoulders
and kind of the raspy voice. It's like there's Diane
Selwyn who's like, you know, a druggy, bitter lesbian that's
the kind of new fem fatal and then she is um,

(26:38):
she sublimates or she is split from her she is
somehow connected to Betty Elms, who's this like sweetest pie
blonde little bimbo. Well, it's like the two film archetypes.
It's the ingenue and the fem fatal. And this movie
is about, I mean about movies, and we talk about

(27:00):
like how annoyed we are about like stories that are
about stories and movies that are about But this is
like about Hollywood and the way that it like rips
people apart. And I did like do a little like
reading and like watched a video essay after I watched
the movie about how it's like about how it's like
about the idea, like about how Rita is supposed to

(27:25):
represent the idea of like the casting couch in Hollywood
and like women who trade their sexuality for success, and
like I mean, I'm sure this is the thing with
David Lynch. It's like sure that is an interpretation of
the movie that if it makes sense to you, like Okay,
I think there's many other interpretations of this movie. And

(27:46):
I think there's also a version of it where you
watch it and you don't interpret it and you just
take this beautiful fever dream of a film and are like,
that is a piece of art that I watched and
that will like linger in my mind for the rest
of my life, the way that some dreams do, where
you don't aren't necessarily able to extract any meaning from them,

(28:08):
but they haunt you forever. Yeah, I think that He's
like it's almost like David Lynch isn't really interest doesn't
want it to be interpreted. You know. Well, he has
said time and time again he's like refused to say
what the film is really about. But yet on the
DVD release of the film, there's a bunch of questions
that he like prompts you with for watching the film,

(28:32):
and they're all very vague and like ephemeral, and it's
like it's kind of a troll, which I love. Right now,
I'm so surprised, I know about that list. It's like
a ten list thing. It's like the keys to this mystery.
I'm so surprised that he did that. There's so many
like silly little nuggets for these art films that you
can find in the like kind of post y two

(28:52):
K DVD sort of like extra's industry. He didn't want
to provide any of that, but it was kind of
like this nace way of getting it to an audience,
like command David, just like throw us a bone here, No,
but he doesn't explain. And you know, right now, I'm
actually doing this play in New York called Des Moines,

(29:13):
which is by Dennis Johnson, who's this amazing novelist and
poet and also playwright. And the play that I'm doing
right now totally exists in this dream logic that goes
between realism and naturalism and then total surrealism. And frequently

(29:35):
we're looking at this text or we were, and we
don't know what we're saying. And Dennis Johnson is no
longer with us, so the playwright isn't in the room,
and this is his last play, so this is kind
of just like a treasure map that he left us.
And I think that Mulholland Drive is really fascinating on
the level of acting too, because you know, particularly Naomi

(29:56):
Wats's performance, you can see her making choices. She knows
what she's saying. She probably received the script and said,
oh my god, like what does this mean? This could
go any which way? You know, like at the you know,
like even that repeated line like we don't stop here
that you know, Laura Maria Harring says at the beginning,

(30:18):
and I believe Naomi Watts says at the end dialogue
when that happens, right, like what does that mean? Who's we?
Why isn't she saying like what's going on? Or like hey? Why?
It's like what you have to make a choice as
an actor if you don't know what you're saying, you
have to choose what you're saying. And you have to

(30:40):
let the playwright and the filmmaking or the theater making
or all the other people working on it, they can
work out the logic. If you know what you're doing,
then something will read on screen. And I think that
Mulholland Drive is this impossible alchemy of like Naomi Watt's
making choices, Laura Maria Harring making choices. I believe Peter Deming,

(31:00):
the cinematographer, correct me if I'm wrong. That's who did
Twin Peaks. I hope it's the same person making choices.
Angelo Battlamenti making choices, Mary Sweeney the editor making choices,
Tatiana like everybody's making their own choice, and David Lynch
is just kind of I think like encouraging everybody. I

(31:21):
think what David Lynch has is a trust of his collaborators.
I don't think he's this like rigid outer guy. I'm
sure he knows exactly, you know. I know that he
knows what he wants, like, you know, down to the
color of the lipstick and whatever. But it's really this
multi valenced thing. Even just like talking about it, I'm
struggling too, because it doesn't do justice to what it

(31:43):
feels like to watch it, for sure, And I feel
like you can see the relationships I guess that he
has with the actors because of like what isn't said
and what you can't necessarily explicitly parcel. And I think
that's what gets me so wet about David Lynch in
Stay in Age because all the content, almost all the

(32:04):
content that we're kind of presented, you know, in the
age of like peak streaming TV, it's all so on
the surface, it's all so recappable. It's also let's like
find the memes and all the Easter egg yeah, recap
reboot memes, yeah, all that stuff. You know, everything has
to mean something, everything has to be plucked out right,

(32:27):
and like, you know, I watch all those YouTube videos too,
But it's like the economy of like meaning on YouTube
and how people can build entire careers on pointing at
something and saying what it means. I know, I'm going
to make a YouTube video about that here. Yeah, I mean,

(32:48):
you know, pardon my non binary vibes, but I'm just like,
does it all need to be explained? Can can we
chew on a little fucking mystery bag? Like? Can can?
Can we sit with a question mark? Can we sit
on it? What happened to mystery? It's very I feel

(33:08):
like Lexie Featherston just like about to fall out that window,
like nobody, why where's mystery? Nobody wants to have fun anymore? Well,
Charlotte famously says in season one that it's important to
remain a creature of miss. I think that's after Carrie farted.
Probably what did you make of the Lesbian? Could you

(33:47):
even call it that? I sapphic, but I also felt
like it was not. I think if that movie came
out today, there would be like a them dot Us
cover about it. There would be like it would there
would be so much extracted from that and in fact,
like what I thought about it in in the movie

(34:08):
is that in the story that it's telling, Like it's
such a logical conclusion of what these women are experiencing together, yes,
which is that they are like this. They become immediately
obsessed with each other and they are like ciphers of
each other and there's this like doubling and doppelgangering, and
of course the logical conclusion is that they fuck. And

(34:30):
it's not about like are they queer, like what are
the political implications of it? It just like it's there's
all the this energy swirling around them, and the logical
conclusion is that they fuck because they're obsessed with each other.
I mean, you know that that famous line that Betty says,
I want to with you. That's like the pansexual anthem

(34:53):
to with you. It's not about gender, it's about you,
about you baby. And then the end of the movie
is kind of like okay, like what might the real
world implications of this be? And it's like, i mean,
like fascinating, but almost less interesting to me than that

(35:17):
like ecstatic moment of them fucking when it's just like
this has to happen. Yeah, it's that it's that moment
where it's revealed to them. It's it's after they come
back from Club Sencia. So they've just had this like
supernatural surreal reckoning that nothing is real and that there

(35:39):
is no band, there is no god, there is no
could you know, there's no man behind the curtains, there's
no man behind the curtain, there's there's there's no engine.
I mean, it's it's almost kind of like a godlessness
and a nihilism. It's like, you know, what else do
we have in this moment but each other? What else

(36:01):
can we consume in like get inside but each other? Um?
You know. I mean I think that that's very reflective
of like what sex is and what can make it
really cool. But it's not a version of sex you
often see in the movies because sex is often used

(36:22):
for plot, and we all know that plot is not
the thing here. Yes, sex is vibe. That really is it.
It's not plot driven sex. It's no, it's it is
the vibe. Well, I love that. I want to have
just non plot driven viby sex. I'm having viby sex

(36:46):
that is not plot driven. Plotless sex is Yeah, that
is the vibe. I guess I kind of am two.
I had sex in an office stairwell last way. Oh,
that's kind of plot driven on his bike, on his break,
that's very plot driven, honestly. No, but it wasn't. But
it wasn't the cracked smile. We just saw that the

(37:11):
that the visions cannot see. Anyways. So you're a theater
girl now, yeah, in and out of the theater. Okay.
So what's the next project for you? Um? The next
project is UM the Seagull Oh my god. Yeah, it's
an adaptation of The Seagull by Thomas Bradshaw. It's called

(37:32):
The Seagull Woodstock, New York and it's at the New
Group at the Pershing Square Signature Center on forty second Street. Um.
I'm playing the role of Sasha, which is a version
of the original Masha. Um. Parker Posey is playing the irena.
Oh my god, Party Girls Unite absolutely. Nat Wolf is

(38:00):
playing the Constantine character who I'm in love with my
friend Patrick Foley from Fake Friends, that amazing queer theater collective.
He is, you know, playing the guy who's in love
with me and I hate him and then I marry
him spoiler alert. So I'm super excited for that. And

(38:21):
that goes until April ninth. I think the performances start
like the first or second week in February, so that's
what I'm here doing. And then after that it'll be
you know, May or April or whatever. I don't know.
I have stuff coming out. The Idol on HBO will
be coming out, which I'm in. I did an episode

(38:42):
of this anthology series on Apple called Extrapolations, which is
basically Black Mirror but with climate change and celebrities. Okay,
I am not one of those celebrities. Was made very
clear to me when we were shooting. I shot this
episode with Marianne Cotillard, Forrest Whitaker, Toby Maguire, and Asa Gonzalez,

(39:09):
and it was and while we were shooting it, they
like announced the four of them and not me. It
was like wow, we were shooting. I was just like
I saw the announcement. I was like, oh work. They
did announced me later in like a larger one with
other people, but I was I was like, oh work. Um,
so like that'll come out at some point and then

(39:30):
you know, the pink Elephant. Come on, Barbie, let's go pretty.
Don't say that. I am in the Barbie movie, which
will be coming out on July twenty first, and you're not.
Isn't that when it comes out? I don't know. Is
it twenty third? I think it's twenty first. No, No,

(39:50):
it's the day Oppenheimer comes out, Barbenheimer and Pink Pink Elephant.
I assume you're not yet ready to talk about it
press wise, you're not in the press her Barbie, So
I'm not on the press drunket, but you know everybody,
everybody gets asked about it. Yeah, and you know it's
it's always a sound bite. Very yeah. I mean there's

(40:11):
actually still so little about the final product that I know.
I haven't seen anything. I know what I shot, and
I know what the script is, and I'm so excited
to see it. Yeah. Yeah, that trailer got me very hype.

(40:32):
It's wild. Yeah, I got you hype. Could never could
never be predicted. Like, I feel like there's so much
about it where you're just like you you don't understand,
you don't really know what you're you're getting going into
the movie, but you think you have an idea. And
I don't think that's what the movie is going to serve.
I hope, what do you think it's going to serve?
I think it's gonna serve like fucking weird, Like I hope,
like I hope it's weird, and I hope it's like

(40:54):
I don't know not to I don't know. I think
I just like was I think the movie helped very
unserious and very willing to make fun of one of
the most recognizable entities on the planet. And I thought
I didn't know that that was going to happen because
it's Coprode with Mattel. Yeah, that's exactly what it is. Yeah,
Mattel gave Greta and Noah and us a lot of freedom.

(41:20):
They really trusted us to go there. I think, knowing
that we would have to go there in order to
make a film about this doll, this idea of a woman,
this with this loaded history, how do we make sense
of this in the present? I think they knew the

(41:43):
envelope had to be pushed in order for it to
you know, quite frankly sell. And that's what we did.
I mean, that's so refreshing in the world of like
existing ip and everyone being so precious about how you
get to play with the toys and in what sandbox
Like it sounds like the box was maybe a little bigger, dirtier,

(42:07):
or whatever, dirtier, I don't know, but bigger certainly. I mean,
I think it is going to be. It's it's not
like a squeaky clean thing for all ages, I imagine.
I think all ages can enjoy it, but it's definitely
there are definitely adult ideas and adult themes and adult

(42:27):
vibes in it that will hopefully play to a wide audience.
I thought about drag Race a lot when I was
shooting it. No way, Yeah, it was kind of like
Greta gerwigs drag Race and you were you a contestine
or you know, because I'm there for like sixteen hours

(42:48):
a day, I've got this wig on my head, I'm
painted from hedge of how I'm singed, and you know,
today it's a comedy challenge. Today, it's an acting challenge. Today,
it's a dance challenge today, um, not a sewing challenge.
But it was very much I kind of had to
do everything I had ever learned how to do. Ever,

(43:12):
going back to when I was five, and I don't know,
I thought a lot about like RuPaul when I was
making the film, and about like what he says on
drag Race, what he encourages the girls to do, like
to act the fool and to let it all hang
out and to not take yourself so seriously and to

(43:33):
make grew laugh and Greta would laugh. She was like
she would be holding it in and you would just
hear this, and that's how you knew. We started saying
this thing after every take. I forget where this came from,
but it was all about, um, mommy, say you like it. Mommy,

(43:55):
say you like it, Mommy, say you like it. That's that,
That's what we used to say. That's so funny, her mother.
I mean, you know, it's when you have all the
power of like you know, the Warner Brothers, you know,
hair and makeup and costume department behind you. Shout out
to Jacqueline Duran costume designer, shout out too if on

(44:16):
a Primeriic hair and makeup designer. When you have all
that behind you and on you, you can act really foolish.
And so yeah, true, yeah, no, it's it's that movie
took everything I had. It was exhausted. It was two
like two and a half plus months, and like, you know,
it's like I'm not even like the biggest role in it.

(44:38):
It's like I'm kind of like it's like I'm in
a bunch of scenes I like, show up like surf gunt,
but say a couple funny things. You know. It's it's
a big ensemble piece. It's it's it's far and wide,
and you know, I don't know how it's going to
turn out in the edit, but I've heard that there

(45:02):
is a version. Greta came to my play and she
said that there is a cut now that she likes.
And I think that test screenings are going to start soon,
which like the very idea that petrifies me. And I
don't know. I'm just like I'm trying to just treat
it like this job I did, Like I don't want
to get caught up in the hype. I believe nothing

(45:23):
beautiful can bloom in the hype. In the light of
the hype. I just want to hope for the best.
It's very Hollywood of you. Well, I don't know. I mean,
like there's been so many times where I thought something
was going to come out and change my life and
it totally flopped and then nothing changed and I was
back in the breadline. You know, Like that's Hollywood is
like You're like, it's going to change and then everything's
the same, but it took like three years to get

(45:45):
to the climax of whatever you thought the change was
going to be because Hollywood runways are so long. And
then you're Diane at the end of Mulholland paying to
have your lover killed. Okay, wait, so I didn't get
through the end. Someone dies at the end? Um, you're
not gonna tell me, no, But it's like, it's who. Well, yes,

(46:08):
I mean, yes, someone does die at the end, one
of the women. But does she I don't know? Bury
your gays? Wow, I mean, do you actually want to
It doesn't I can't even even giving you the plot
details doesn't really mean anything. It's the same thing. It's
like if I told you who killed Laura Palmer, It's
like that wouldn't really doesn't really, I don't even matter.

(46:28):
I don't remember who killed. There're certain plot things like
that that I kind of just choose not to accept
in certain things, like I don't accept that Carry ended
up with Big not really. Oh, who do you think
she should have ended up with? Yeah? No, no, it's
not a who. It's like she could have ended up
with any of them. She could have ended up with none.
Of them, you know, like, do I believe that in

(46:50):
like the spiritual truth of twin peaks that spoiler alert,
like Leland Palmer killed Laura Palmer. Like, no, not necessarily,
because that's not what the show's about. Sex and the
City isn't about Carrie finding true love. It's about her
looking for it, and that's what's so interesting about the show.

(47:13):
And it's about four girls and the and the city
being the fifth character or Stanford is the only real character,
and the other four girls are dreams. I was listening
to another podcast the other day where somebody said that

(47:35):
Sex and the City is about like four gay men
living the gay lifestyle and it's just like women. Yeah,
oh that's absolutely that's you know, like the Darren star
Michael Patrick King fantasy Yeah avatars, Yeah, for like what
a lot of like gay men were living out because
it's like if six hetero women were fags. Literally, I

(47:58):
mean that's like part of why it was. But that's
like why it was amazing, because like you were watching
like women have sex in ways that you had never
seen before, at least in those first few seasons where
you were just like, yeah, what like women fucking like
gay men well, the first episodes, literally Carris columnists. Can
women have sex like men? Like? That is the premise

(48:19):
of the whole show. And you know what we can
we have and we will continue to meland. Okay, the
trans reclamation of Fire Island is a thing as of
last summer. Can we talk about that? Okay? No? No,
Like I first started coming there, I leaned into the mice. Yeah,

(48:42):
little asmr. I first started coming to Fire Island like
three summers ago, and I was just like, I am
going to plant my flag on this gay island because
I belong here. I Am going to like party like
these gays. I'm going to have sex like these gays.
I'm going to like rent beautiful homes like these gays,

(49:05):
because like I belong here. The spirits are telling me
that I belong here. I'm supposed to be here. And
it's not just me, it's the dolls, the dolls. Where
are the dolls. I know where the dolls are. The
dolls can't afford to pay these like crazy rental prices.
So I'm like, if there's if there's anywhere where I'm
like willing to admit that I am like nakedly social

(49:27):
climbing and flying to it is Fire Island. Yes, you
have to do some wealthy people there so that we
can import you know, we need like a doll invasion
of Fire Island. We need to become the wealthy people. No,
because there's there's there's like a like, yeah, sub population
of like broke twins who just got to be on

(49:48):
Fire Island all summer and and they inherit it or
they fucked someone's daddy or whatever, you know, yeah, or no,
like they got brought out there for sex. Like right,
I would love to create that or help to create
that for the dolls. And I'm and I'm literally like
marching around to all these houses being like have you

(50:10):
ever listened to Ethel? I'm like you're like you're witness Noine.
But but I'm also just like running around and you know,
like I met um somebody who I dated for several months.
Since you're like in a pool and Fire Island, It's

(50:30):
like I'm planting that blag too. I'm like, y'all can
like got with the dolls too. It's like it's like
we're we're fun too. Like this is like like like
we're a part of this too. It's like I don't know,
I really feel like that place is the platonic, spiritual,

(50:51):
explosive ideal of what that place is supposed to be.
Imagine when everybody is there, Yes, you know, you can
really see that on BAFO weekend. BAFO is this arts
organization that does this series of residencies all somewhere on
Fire Island, and in August they have this performance festival
there and their programming is diverse and obviously queer centered,

(51:14):
and like everybody comes out for this weekend and you
see a crowd that is more racially diverse, socioeconomically diverse,
gender diverse, and everybody's there and like, those are the
people at the fancy house parties, those are the people
on the beach ascending, those are the people at the club.
And it doesn't usually look like that. It's usually just
like I'm hanging with the white gays and like kumbaya.

(51:36):
But when it does look like that, it's literally like
the most beautiful thing I've ever seen. It's paradise. I'm
all in. It's like we said this when after we
had this like really lovely like Fire Island summer week
and after we left, like Rose was like it's crazy
or I think we were like in the pool and
Rose was like, it's crazy, how like this is like

(51:57):
one of the most beautiful places on the planet inhabited
by some of the worst people alive. Like you know
what I mean, Like obviously there are a lot of
amazing people there too, but well, but don't you think
that that's relative to where our population like like imagine
if you were in like Easthampton. Sure, yeah it would
be it would be much worse. But that feeling was

(52:19):
like so much because of how um how different it
was this summer when for once, this was the first
time when we rented a house for a week that
like we had the house. It wasn't like going and
staying with someone where they had brought out all the
people they wanted to fuck and then like they're one
trans friend and like lesbian friend, and it's like really

(52:41):
different when you have the house and you get to
curate the people who come out there and the people
who they bring out, and like that just breeds more
and more of the girls and the dolls being out
there and that that is how we you know, take
it back right, And I think that gay men need

(53:03):
to kind of abide by this one guiding principle. My
friend was talking about this other day about what he
looks for while dating and a partner, you know, as
gay guy, one of my best friends. He was like,
the number one thing I look for when dating, like
in the gay dating pool, is like, does this man
love women? If you want to be my lover, you

(53:26):
gotta get women alls, but also the lesbians and also
just like girls, there are so many gay men who
don't enjoy the company of women, who don't see women,
don't don't write not like the hottest take. But when
you actually zoom out and think about it, it's like

(53:46):
gay life is better with women. Literally, literally it just is.
And I think that you know so many of like
you know, the party gays, and just like the giggdy gays,
like they're always I think a lot of them always
have these very generic complaints about the homogeneity in their

(54:08):
social circles and in their sexual circles. Like you can
solve that problem by just bringing women around, whether or
not you're hanging with them, whether or not you're like
you know, getting a little MIXI and like loving on
them or sucking on them, Like gay is just better
with women. Six gay guys on trans girls. There's a

(54:43):
very special marriage there. Yeah. Yeah, because gay guys get
to be a man to that woman in a way
that they were like shamed and admonished for it and
then had to mourn probably at a young age, like

(55:04):
never ever being able to be a man to a
woman in that way. And trans girls get to like
receive that and have a man to their woman and
be a girl to that man in a way that
feels very I think far away for a lot of us.
There's kind of this like this like frequently sexless heterosexuality

(55:26):
that happens between like this is gays and the dolls
where they can actually create the Norman Rockwell, the Norman
Rockwell picture together, and I think that that's like the
glue that binds it. They It's like we kind of
can create this illusion of heterosexual belonging while still being

(55:49):
our queer selves, Like we can get the affirmation and
the thrill of living our own little thing at the
same time. I totally get what you're saying. There is
a sort of romanticism in the relationship between a gay
man and his doll. Yeah. Like my best friend Ryan
and I like there is we are soulmates siblings and like,

(56:13):
you know, when we go to the movies, we hold
hands and like there is there is something like I mean,
there's nothing sexual about it, but there is a romanticism
and a tenderness there that does feel very much like
we are filling out that role of you know, whatever,
whatever is expected of a man and a woman being

(56:36):
together in society, and tenderness is such an elusive thing.
I think for both you know, sis men in the
gay dating pool and sex pool and like trans women
in you know, the trans straight dating pool or sex pool,
I think that having that communion coming together in a

(56:57):
way that is like essentially societally sanctioned in this like
header a way, it does create this sense of like
I got that too, and it's nice that I have that.
I mean, aside from also affirmation, I do feel like,
you know, there's like a language that you click into
really quickly. But I think a lot of like gay

(57:18):
men like or maybe I'm speaking broadly, but like I
feel like a lot of gay men that I don't
know don't have trans people are trans friends in their life,
and I feel like there's a lot of like you're
just like and that's so sad. Yeah, it's really sad.
It's kind of like why. But I think that a
lot of that has to do with like the fear
of what they don't know, and yet they I think

(57:38):
a lot of people that just don't inhabit like trans
spaces or trans circles just don't know that you actually
have so much in common. Obviously very different experiences, but
there's so much overlap. There's so much in your own
languages that you can exchange. I mean, I don't think
it's a crime not to have trans people in your life.
If they're not in your life. I mean, there are

(57:59):
people freak quently want to forget in all these conversations
that like there are so few of us. Yeah, I
think it's more of a crime when there are no
women in your life. Yeah, particularly particularly with gay men,
because there is such a celebration of femininity, because the
gay men are bumping the divas, they are watching drag race,

(58:20):
they are talking about celebrities, and yet they have no
actual physical proximity to women. That and I'm fucking weird,
and back to drag race. Honestly, like, I think that's
part of why so much of like, you know, contemporary
drag Race not so much like Drag Race of your
but a lot of drag Race right now is like
really hard to watch, like the communities, like the people

(58:42):
that are consuming it. It's like there's just like ache
feeling around. I don't know what you're describing, I guess,
And also just the show. It's like not just good anymore.
But I still watch every season. I'm can I confess something, Yes,
I watch drag Race, so I know you, Like, I

(59:02):
don't just watch drag Race. I watch like the YouTube
recaps and like conspiracy theory videos. I've rewatched every season
of drag Race, like the main Drag Race and All Stars.
I've rewatched all of them, like at least twice, like
some of them like five ors. Like It's literally the
thing that I will turn on when I'm like tired

(59:25):
and I want to just like have a little laugh.
Which comfort show. It's my comfort show. It used to
be Sex in the City, but I made a vow
to myself because I've watched Sex in the City more
than twenty times. I made a vow to myself to
stop watching sex I'm not going to watch it again
until I'm Carrie in season one years old, which is
thirty two because I think that show kind of like

(59:47):
wired my brain for dating in a way that places
like Fire Island have helped me get out of. But
now it's Drag Race, and I'm actually trying to get
out of that too, because I've like run out of
Drag Race a little bit, and I like can't keep
doing this to myself. But like, I'm actually so obsessed
with Drag Race, and I think it's like this amazing show.
I mean, like, yes, there are issues that people have

(01:00:08):
pointed out that are valid in the fandom is like
rot rotation, the fantom is rotted to the electric chair,
but in you know, like I think, in order to
watch Drag Race like sustainably, you have to actually also
be like a fan of drag and like of queens
who aren't on the show, and you have to support

(01:00:29):
local drag, which like I actually don't do as much
as I could, but I still do as much as
I can. Um. The issue about supporting local drag is
that like the queens to me are like Pearls before swine,
Like I don't want to go to those clubs, yeah yeah,
and be in community with everyone there. One can only
do so much no, but I just saw Sharlene and

(01:00:52):
Karnate perform at the Poetry Project twenty four hour marathon,
and I love that they had drag up in the
Poetry Project. Um that's how it should be. Um yeah,
I mean Brooklyn Jag is really it, Like I think
for New York, I'm I'm not really out in Hell's
kitchen much. You're not going to industry And I don't
even know if that no feet cost extra? Do you?

(01:01:14):
I'm fascinated by a really good to live by. I
think everyone that's that should be everyone's resolution for twenty
twenty three feet cost extra. I really want to be
a guest judge on Rutbaul Jager's Routpaul, if you're listening,
I really really want it, Babe, that's in the cart.
I think that's really matter when yeah, it's yeah, it's

(01:01:36):
not an if. I I love drag. Drag is like
a huge kind of inspiration for like, I'm kind of
in my wig era right now. No, I'm wearing wigs
and everything we love. Yeah, it's it's drags. So wait,
what's your favorite season or rather maybe not favorite season,

(01:01:56):
but this season you always returned to or the comfort season.
The comfort season is kind of where it all began
for me, which is sort of season four, I think,
I mean season five has kind of emerged more recently
as like this is sort of like the season, like
this is kind of when it peaked. No, it's it's Jinks,

(01:02:21):
and season four is Sharon, Season four is Sharon. Actually
think season five is the true Girl, not just because
of the queens, which are I don't think we've ever
seen a season of that caliber with the casting, but
also because of the storyline, like we've never had anything
like Cocoa and Alyssa since Coco, and like that's why
it was good. And then like Jings versus Rulaska talks

(01:02:43):
like we've like we don't have that shit anymore. They're
all too nice. It was like it was like biblical
but totally biblical. It was it was David versus the Goliaths. Yeah,
it was less self perception, you know, less self editing.
I'm like I but I what I also love from
like really more so like the first like one, two, three,

(01:03:05):
and then like four seasons, it's like they were all
kind of transsexual, like like they were all like cross dressing,
like they were all wearing like ready to wear they were,
you know, and and I know that they can't do
this anymore, but like I miss when Paul was like four,

(01:03:27):
they all these new glamour girls and they're sitting on
a big old secret. I know, I bring back, bring
back you, like like I miss, I miss the like
the lady boy jokes and the tranny jokes, since the
like she's got a dick Joe and how like like

(01:03:48):
like like all they could ever say on the runway
is like you know, veiled versions of like she's got
a dick under you. Like it's so good. I know,
make drag trap again. I know, and I'm sorry, but
like like the girls are gonna eat me a why
for saying this? But like I you know, like as me,

(01:04:09):
I do watch drag Race and like experience recognition. I like,
like I do watch drag Race and experience not only recognition,
but my friend Devin Diaz, who's you know, one of
my favorite writers and thinkers, She's like, drag Race is
such a hit with like you know, the millennial and

(01:04:30):
gen Z gays because it's a microcosm of like the
gay gig economy. Like RuPaul is like Intertuba. You have
to do all of these like stupid things, like you
have to do it all, like including like you know,
market yourself as a product. And like these poor queens
who are like you know, amazing makeup artists and like

(01:04:51):
hair artists and like you know, lip sync artists, actresses,
like they're gonna go home on a challenge where they
have to sell themselves as a product and like that's
not just a showbiz maybe that's America. Like this is commentary. No,
I think it's really brilliant, and I agree. I just
love Drag Race. I've said this on the pod before.

(01:05:11):
I even though I feel like it's declined in quality,
I do think that this panel of judges and Drew
and Michelle specifically are just like some of the best,
like the best that we can get in reality TV
and reality competition doing things that are like sublime and
cerebral and weird and inside jokey that you just don't
see in other shows. And now it's like franchised and

(01:05:33):
like you know this betham off that feels like something different,
but it's still I mean, I also watch like every
fucking episode. We need David Lynch as a drag race guestrate. Yeah,
he would. Actually, I feel like, you know, do right
by the queens that I always gravitate towards, like you know,

(01:05:54):
the Tammy Browns of Banina Bonina Browns, Yes of the world.
Tammy Brown kind of is a Lynchian figure, absolutely, because
there is there's She kind of is like a creature
of Mulholland Drive, because like the sort of world of
her character is this like idea of a Hollywood that

(01:06:16):
doesn't exist. I'm acting right, like like the she and
the magazine like it's very sunset boulevard. Wait that is
can I say? Can I say? That's so? I was
going to ask you when you were talking about like
Greta's drag race, I was going to ask you a
stupid question like what is which drag race archetype? Are

(01:06:39):
you in in this? Uh? In this contest? Like are
you the look queen? Are you the comedy queen? Are
you like the art performance like Willow Pill Jimbo type?
Like what are you giving? So certain? There's kind of
like a broadness and like a an endedness too. I

(01:07:01):
think a lot of the way the character some of
these characters are distinguished. I don't want to give away
too much, but I was asking about you personally. No, no, no, no, no,
I know, but like for me, I was sort of
like subliminally and like behind the scenes and what they
wanted to do with my character knowing, you know, frankly,

(01:07:25):
like they said, we want to use kind of like
what you're known for. So I'm kind of the look
Queen love. That's what we need, thats what we need. Yeah,
I've I've got a lot of costumes. I thought a
lot of them in their crazy and I actually kind
of helped design some of them. That's maybe that's fine,

(01:07:49):
not like design design, but like you know, I made
some I made color choices, I said, maybe that, you know,
it was fun, it was a clever I even you know,
helped call in some designer pulls as well. Yeah. No,
the power of the international implications of that. Oh listen.
If if there's one like bonus thing I can bring
to a film production, it's clothes. I've done that for

(01:08:11):
every film that I've done in the past couple of years. Um,
you know, there's there's this film that hasn't even been
announced yet that I shot before Barbie that I think
is going to be playing a festival later this year,
and um, you know I called in looks for that. Um, okay,
so you are the look queen. I am, I'm the

(01:08:32):
elusive Shantus and you're in your wig era, your Rita
when she puts on the blonde wig. Well, I mean,
we haven't even talked about the like blonde brunette thing,
which is so important, so important, truly, it's it's the movie,
it's thematically, you know, that's the engine. And now you're
a redhead. Yeah. I wonder why. I wonder why. What

(01:09:02):
could have prompted that decision? When did I go red?
What was I doing at the time? Connecting the dots?
But you are now an iconic redhead? I feel really,
I mean I am again, I only am saying it
didn't feel iconic. Yeah, thank you. Yeah, I think I'm
going to keep it for a second because it's just

(01:09:23):
going to keep popping up. And like, I don't know
when I went red, the demon came out. I went
red right before that Fire Island summer, and girl, the
demon the demon is quite frankly still out. The demon
is subdued by eight shows a week and not having
any energy to do anything other than have sex in
an office stairwell for like ten minutes. But um, yeah,

(01:09:48):
I'm so flattered that you think I'm elusive because I
don't feel that way, and I I'm like yeah, because
I'm I'm like, I'm extrovert. I'm an over sure and
it takes a lot of restraint not to just like
shit post all the time. Both Irl and Urel, well,

(01:10:10):
you seem to have um mastered it. I mean, virgins
you can't tell, but I mean there's not even a
person in here in the room. It's just like a
shifting shimmering that's kind of like a rip in the
fabric of the universe, has red hair on top, and
it's just a If you liked this episode with Harry,

(01:10:43):
you are in luck, babe, because there's more. We cut
a little bit from this conversation and put it on
our Patreon as part of an exclusive bonus episode, and
you can get access to that, as well as weekly
bonus episodes and lots of other fun content by going
to patreon dot com slash like a Virgin and becoming

(01:11:05):
one of the founding members of our Patreon for only
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Lynch movie, what's your favorite season of drag Race? And
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(01:11:26):
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We're very QBC trying on the mallgoth hoodie. Okay, holding
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four twenty sixty nine. I'm your co host Rosdamu. You
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(01:11:49):
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Bye h