August 24, 2023 • 55 mins
- Fran & Rose finally address human culture's deadliest epidemic, heterosexuality
- Plus, a clip from this week's Patreon episode, a conversation with friend of the podcast, theater nerd and iconic MUA Laurel Charleston on her first viewing of Moulin Rouge. Subscribe for multiple bonus episodes a week, including this week's recap of the season finale of And Just Like That.
Shop our summer merch line. Are you or do you know someone suffering from heterosexuality? Tag our finsta @likeavirgin42069
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
Time, that's straight, the space time continuous? Is gay matter,
is trans matter?
Speaker 2 (00:13):
She's sheen ami, no ma, not n yo yo. What
is your challenge?
Speaker 1 (00:24):
I am a chokund.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
You know what's going down before round.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
Welcome to Like a Virgin, the show where we give
yesterday's pop culture. Today's takes Arma's Damu.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
And I'm Frank Rada.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
And it is Thursday, which means the final episode of
Dress Like That is airing today, and that means that
tomorrow we will have a recap of it live on
our Patreon Patreon slash Like a Virgin. So go become
a patron now and hear us probably screaming for forty
five minutes about how horrible it is. And if you
(01:12):
haven't gotten into our patreon yet, there is an extra
delicious little clip from this week's Patreon at the very
end of this episode. This week's is discussing Mulin Rouge
with none other than Laurel Charleston. Subscribe to our patreon
to get the full episode, but just a snippet at
the end of this one. Again, that is patreon dot
com slash Like a Virgin and our episode today is
(01:38):
all about something truly sinister and sickening. That is a
play in the world and something that thankfully both of
us have escaped the clutches of. And that is heterosexuality. Yes, heterosexuality,
(02:02):
What is it? And what causes it? In the words
of Willie Norris, we honestly, I was reminiscing when I
was like hopping over to the studio today, And by
the studio, I mean my office next to all of
my vintage pornography and rose have you ever. I'm gonna say, Okay,
(02:22):
you and I. I used to be heterosexual, or I
used to think I was heterosexual. I think this was
maybe I used to pretend to be heterosexual. Well, I
fully did actually think I was or could be. Well,
And so then you were lying to yourself.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
I absolutely was.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
And in the period where maybe you were lying to yourself,
was there any anything in heterosexual culture that you maybe
really secretly loved or partook in and now you're ashamed of? Yeah,
I was so gay, and I was so interested in
(03:00):
gay things, and like you know, like I did. I
went to an art school, like I did theater. All
of my friends were girls. I really didn't participate in
any hetero culture like at all. I'm really like trying
to do the assignment and like racking my brain and actually,
(03:24):
just honestly, don't think I ever pretended to like anything straight.
You're actually touching on Oh wait, wait wait, I do
have an answer. Okay, it's not from my adolescence. Okay,
So when I was in when I was in college
and just after college, I had a predominantly straight group
of friends, and some of them listened to this podcast,
(03:47):
so you know, for forgive me for this, but they
were very into blues music and like Bob Dylan and
acoustic guitars and stuff, and so so at a certain
point like this is like like the end of college
and like right after college, like a lot of the
(04:08):
parties we had or that I went to were very
much characterized by a bunch of people like sitting in
a circle singing along to Bob Dylan. And I did
pretend to be into that, like, probably not very well,
but I participated in it. And it is a reason
why at a certain point in my life I had
(04:29):
a rule that you could not come into my apartment
if you had an acoustic guitar with you because of
the trauma I experienced during that time. And yeah, I
did pretend to be into that sort of like let's
all sit around and sing and like drink whiskey and
like hahaha. And I actually hated it. And that is
(04:50):
the reason why when my best friend from high school
moved to New York City and had had kind of
similar experience, that's why and I like teamed up and
started exploring queerness together, and that's what kind of led
me into queer night life and stuff. Was like that
rejection of that kind of straight culture. So yeah, So
(05:13):
in my youth, I like was very true to myself
and very self possessed and was like no, no hetero.
And then yeah, like in my young adulthood, I did
backslide a little bit, but then I like swung very
hard in the opposite direction. What about you, Fran, What
did you well pretend to like?
Speaker 2 (05:33):
Can I say something about Bob Dylan?
Speaker 1 (05:35):
Yeah, folks, well, yes, I just I feel like, Okay,
I consider myself a very open person in terms of
like cultural consumption.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
I will listen to a lot of things. I will
watch a lot of things.
Speaker 1 (05:50):
If people recommend me stuff or tell me that it's
important to them, I'm going to listen to it. And
particularly the whole part of this podcast. Yes, and particularly
like if someone's gonna turn on some music and I
don't love the music, I'm still gonna like listen to it,
or I'm still gonna find a way to enjoy it
or figure out how it's a specific vibe that can
be enjoyed. Right if someone turns on Bob Dylan, I
(06:15):
am actually standing up and saying, turn that shit off.
I actually, actually, I actually that's like one of the
few next to like sorry, Ava Max Slater, and maybe
like the Beatles. I mean Ava Max's song on the
Barbie album is good.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
Honestly, I guess I'm sure I do have that.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
I do have the term Ava Max muted on Twitter though,
way yeah no. But also, like the Beatles is kind
of in this category. It's like, if you try to
play the Beatles at a function, I'm standing up and
I'm saying, turn that shit off. Well, it's just not
party music. That kind of is not party music. The
one thing I will give that time in my life
is that it did sort of help lead me to
(07:01):
discovering Patti Smith. Although also that was the era of
when just Kids came out, so it was like part
of the culture, so I will I will give it that,
but yeah, I just like, you know, we're there that
time in my life, I did not besides Lady Gaga,
(07:23):
I like didn't listen to pop music because I was
like ashamed to like it because none of my friends
listened to it, and I just like pretended to be
into the things that they were into, and I it
was a It was a very short period of time,
but I still look back on it and I'm like, ough, gross,
I should have not done that. Anyway, What straight things
(07:47):
did you pretend to? Like? Honestly, so many things like
American Eagle, like gay, I know right, it was kind
of gay. I used to have a crush on Lindsay Lohan.
I think I've talked about them or the first thing. Honestly,
when you but you're really just like Diva, I'd be like,
I love your long hair, Diva. No, I feel like
(08:08):
the I feel like pretending to have a crush on
Ladzy Lohan is so funny. It's like pretending like a
like a closeted gig. I being like, yeah, lady, that
Lady Gaga is so fucking hot.
Speaker 2 (08:18):
Yeah, that Lady Gaga is so hot. I love her
cool costumes. They're so hot, her hot, sludy costumes. I love.
Speaker 1 (08:26):
I would be like, I would literally and this is
not this is not an exaggeration. I'd literally be in
like fourth or fifth grade and I'd be like, I'd
be like, yeah, I love Lindsay Lohan because I think
her freckles are so hot. We are hot.
Speaker 2 (08:41):
I know, it's like not a thing.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
Anyways, So when you were talking about music, I immediately thought
about how the first one of the first two albums
I ever bought was The Black Eyed Peas. I believe
elephunk or if not, no, maybe it was a monkey business.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
It was a Black Eyed.
Speaker 1 (08:56):
Peas, the one with pump it out of And that
is actually a musical taste that I have that has
withstood the test of time.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
And I might have maybe not listened.
Speaker 1 (09:07):
Yeah, that's not streat music, the Black Eyed and you
know it, Rose black Eyed Peas is pat neurosexual culture,
like Black Eyed Peas is flash mob culture. It's Oprah
special culture, it's good Morning America culture. It's heterosexuality. I well,
(09:28):
I do think you're you are and this is I
know this, there's nuance here, but I do think you're
conflating heterosexual culture with just monoculture in general, and like, yes,
at the time, at the time when the Black Eyed
Peas were really popular, monoculture was extremely straight. But I
just want to like, I just want to say, like,
(09:50):
I don't think. I don't think the music the Black
Eyed Peas made like is there's inherently something like broie
or hetero or whatever about it. I think it's just
at the time when like the monoculture was so strong
and it was so straight that those things, wait, are
that's actually okay, I've never even thought about that, but
like truly, especially thinking about like the aughts and the
(10:12):
twenty ten specifically are excruciatingly heterosexual. Like actually, like heterosexual
was so prevalent, and it's like funny actually to think
now that in twenty twenty three, like monoculture is kind
of gay. Like it's like like all our icons are gay,
all our celebrities are gay.
Speaker 2 (10:31):
The way we talk is gay.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
Like now straight people say like slay, Yeah, like that's
kind of crazy. Yeah, drag race is more consumed by
straight people than gay people. Yeah, Like now straight people
pretend to like gay things to seem cool. You know,
it's one thing I've I'm not pretending to like just
to squeeze a little topicality into this chit chat section.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, of course is.
Speaker 1 (10:58):
The Addison Ray ep. Baby Okay have you listened? Yeah,
girl girl? It is the fame era Gaga tease she
even had. She even recorded one of Gaga's demos. It's
so catchy and like like like fizzy, like like when
(11:22):
you pour a coke into a glass, like it's like
the fizz at the top, Like that's what this EP is.
It is eleven minutes long. It's really good. There's a
Charlie XCX feature on it. The Gaga demo that she
did a rendition of is Nothing on About the Radio,
which was famously like supposed to be on Born This
(11:43):
Way then it was supposed to be on Art Pop.
There are like there, there are lots of there's a
demo version of it on YouTube, and obviously, like Addison
Ray doesn't sound as good as Gaga does, but it's
very fun and it's just like a dumb little ep
and she kind of is the queen of pop. Wait
and I've never cared about Addison Ray before ever, but
(12:03):
now I see the little monster she is and I
have to respect that that is such a I did
not know about the demo. That is such a serve
just from your description. I have yet to listen to
the EP. I was seeing people tweet about it. I'm
going to listen to it. It is eleven minutes and
fifty seven seconds, and there.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
Are I mean song is too. Yeah, every song is
two minutes and fifteen seconds.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
Love that.
Speaker 2 (12:28):
I can't wait to listen.
Speaker 1 (12:31):
Is she just I don't need a full history, but
she is a TikToker And then she had a Netflix special.
She became famous, I believe during COVID for doing those
little dances on TikTok. Then she was people that get
famous during COVID. Honestly, you know, the cream of the crop. Definitely,
she is always serving as culture. She was sort of
(12:53):
a plant friend on Keeping up with the Kardashians, like
the final season, she was like friends quote unquote with Courtney.
And then yes, she starred in Netflix's She's All That Real.
I almost said, I almost said She's the Man remake,
which I wish now that Netflix is She's All That
(13:18):
remake He's All That which I have watched it is horrible.
And then since then, I think she's mainly but like,
she was supposed to have an album come out and
then it leaked and so she scrapped it. I really
only know this from like things that I've gleaned on
Twitter and likes. Occasionally they'll talk about her on HOO weekly,
And then I think since then, she's just been kind
(13:40):
of like being famous, like in a very unspecific way,
and she has had some gaggy fashion moments wearing like
cool archival stuff, and now she released this EP and
it is sickening. So this is a person who's famous
for being famous, but lo and behold, she has the talent,
and the talent is well, she was famous for dancing
(14:03):
on TikTok and you know that's right dance. That is
some kind of talent. And she like was, Yeah, I
mean I don't care about her, but the CP is fun.
Speaker 2 (14:14):
I'm about to care about her.
Speaker 1 (14:16):
So yeah, not on not a lot of like topical
pop culture this week. But I hope you I hope
you enjoyed our little, uh sort of intro into our
larger conversation about heterosexuality, which is coming up after the break.
And oh, make sure that you subscribe to the patriotic
(14:38):
dot com slash like a Virgin. Was there ever a
(14:59):
time in your life you wanted to be straight? I
mean probably every day, every hour until I was like
seventeen or eighteen. Yeah, that was probably, Yes, my my
greatest wish that. And I wish that I was circumcised
because I thought that my dick looked weird.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
But I love my dick now so now.
Speaker 1 (15:20):
Yeah, and I also don't want to be straight anymore,
which is great. What about you, I got information? Yeah, yeah,
I really really processing all that. I think the only
time I actually wanted to be straight was not ever
when I was gay. It was after I transitioned. I
(15:44):
wanted to be a straight woman, you know, that was
the fantasy, and that was very much like my vibe
for after kind of the terrible twos of transness. Then
I progressed to this point where I was like, I
don't want to be queer anymore. I want to be unclockable,
and I want to be a hetero woman. I want
to be stealth. So that was really the only time
(16:06):
when I ever even flirted with the idea of heterosexuality,
which is, let's say this a disease, A disease one
hundred percent, an epidemic that has become now a national problem,
an international problem, the international implications of it, an international
problem that we are remedying in real time.
Speaker 2 (16:26):
I feel like there are.
Speaker 1 (16:26):
Fewer and fewer heterosexuals in the population thanks to the
work that we have done on this podcast, and one
day it will be eradicated.
Speaker 2 (16:34):
Yeah, one day.
Speaker 1 (16:35):
And honestly, I'm okay not to start here, but because
you were talking about it, like the notion of heterosexuality
as like a trans girl or trans guy, and how
it is kind of this upper echelon of achievement where
the ultimate fantasy if you're adult is to be in
a relationship with a heterosexual man, Like that is still
(16:58):
a pinnacle that people that people want to achieve, like
something that I would even fantasize about.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
And yet I don't know a single trans person.
Speaker 1 (17:10):
That would ever identify as straight, ever, even if they
were technically in a quote unquote straight relationship, Like I
don't know any queer women or men. I don't know
any trans women or men that are like I'm straight, Like,
never heard that before in my life. I'm I've heard
people say it jokingly. Yeah, and maybe somewhat aspirationally, but
(17:33):
never like said it in a way where they're like,
this is my reality and thank God for that. But
I'm sure they exist. Yeah, I'm sure they exist. And
like that's the other thing is like I feel like
this is just my experience. I feel like this is
also your opinion that if you're trans and you're in
a relationship that's a queer relationship period, Like that is
(17:55):
kind of to me how I would function in any relationship.
I do think the straightest relationship a transperson could be
in is a boy girl tea for tea couples is
a boy girl teav and that's maybe the straightest relationship
that exists in the world because you have you have
tried so hard to achieve heterosexuality that it's more heterosexual
(18:17):
than just assists hetero couple. Yes, because you both in
your own ways have like assimilated in some I mean sorry,
like medical transition is a kind of assimilation, whether we
want to admit it or not.
Speaker 2 (18:29):
And in that kind of.
Speaker 1 (18:30):
Assimilation, you've tried to maximize your own masculinity or feminity.
You are trying to execute on the most man or
most woman you can be it's a hat on top
of the hat. Yes, And when you're most men and
most women and you love each other.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
That's heterosexuality. Baby is here.
Speaker 1 (18:48):
We are making points, doing the real work on like
a Virgin four twenty sixty nine period. I know so
view straight people, and there was I even't talked to
a straight person in days. There was a period of
my life when I really did not interact to with
(19:09):
straight people for weeks, if not months at a time
outside of you know, maybe like the checkout person at
a bodega or like a waiter at a restaurant. Like
my social circle, romantic circle, everything was entirely queer people.
And having to then start factoring straight people into my
(19:35):
life on a day to day basis was extremely jarring
because sometimes I would say things and then realize, oh,
that's something that this person would not understand, or like
I said something that's like just for us.
Speaker 2 (19:48):
Inside jokey and not talking about callin Lord or whatever.
Speaker 1 (19:51):
Yeah, and even now I don't have a lot of
straight friends. You know, I support their choices, but it's
very weird when I really when I remember that someone
in my life who I love is straight.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
Yeah, Yeah, I have like three straight friends.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
I think maybe four. I used to have more, but
they've all transitioned or come out as queer. And I
I'm you know, but inclusion is really important.
Speaker 2 (20:18):
Road it is.
Speaker 1 (20:19):
Yeah, I want to be an ally to the straight community. Well,
they're in dire need, they're in pain, they're in pain,
they're living a live. I mean, look at the news
right now, do you like, come on, aliens, Lizzo. I
mean also, like in twenty twenty three, being straight is
such a choice.
Speaker 2 (20:39):
It is, it is.
Speaker 1 (20:40):
Their lifestyle is sick and twisted. It's like and I
just like, grow up, grow up, grow up, eat pussy,
suck dick, grow up or whole or whatever. Then you know,
you're a non specific gender term.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
Whatever your non specific orifice is.
Speaker 1 (20:56):
But it's I, you know, like I live so we
as we talked about on our fan fiction episode with
Ashley Reese, fan fiction is sort of the one sphere
in which heterosexuality is in the minority. And I have
really applied that to my life. And I do think
as we you know, progress as a as a modern society,
(21:21):
that will only become true or and truer in the
world at large. And like, yes, I'm saying that in
a somewhat joking way, but like I also do believe
that like the future is queer, Like I want to
kill myself, but like, but I do think that in well,
I mean, I was gonna say, in a hundred years,
everyone will be queer, but like in one hundred years
this planet won't exist. But in one hundred years, like
(21:42):
the aliens who have you know, sort of like absorbed
some of our like society through watching it from their spaceships,
like they will all be queer.
Speaker 2 (21:56):
Oh yeah, one hundred percent.
Speaker 1 (21:57):
And in my mind, and I hope soon and everybody
else's mind gay until proven heterosexual, I will assume like
and honestly tangentially trans until provences like I and anybody
I speak to or or interact with. That's how I operate,
and I do. I mean not to be the girl
(22:17):
on the pod with the data, but like so many
different studies, that's who you are, that's who I am,
but so many different palls. We don't know if the
data is correct, but we know, you know. That is
the thing about queer trands data is that it is
like heavily skewed and also using like way smaller sample
groups than they should. However, there have been enough studies
to show that you know, as much as half of
(22:39):
gen Z identifies as something other than straight, that at
least a third of them knows someone trans or someone
that uses the them pronouns, and just as much a
sizable chunk of them are people that have this fluency
or knowledge or wherewithal about trans people and queer people
(22:59):
and way that we never had access to.
Speaker 2 (23:02):
And we're on the winning team.
Speaker 1 (23:03):
Sorry. So like when gen Z like mushrooms and becomes
the purchasing power and the people that make the decisions,
like all these dinosaurs are just gonna go to bed.
I mean, I look at the sample of just my
own family and of my mother's for children, three of
us are queer. Yeah, and the there is one straight
one and he is like the straightest person ever.
Speaker 2 (23:27):
Right, but that's just data.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
But he's still in the minority, right And yes, And
I won't stop until all straight people are dead. I
won't stop tell all my siblings are transitioned and gay.
Speaker 2 (23:42):
I yeah, no, it's true.
Speaker 1 (23:44):
It's it's something that I honestly, I almost feel like
the democratization of like queer identities and knowledge around queer
people has almost emboldened the wrong people sometimes, like I mean, well,
I feel like there are certain people that will say
(24:04):
that their gender is fluid, or that they are non binary,
or that they will use quote unquote any pronouns, but
they are, for put, in any other terms, a heterosexual
in a heterosexual relationship with heterosexual communities in a heterosexual world.
But the effort for these people to open up about
their gender, which is obviously different from orientation, inducts them
(24:27):
into a kind of queer community that they then get
to belong to without any fluency or practice in But
you know, it's like they're trying to do something good.
And if we're thinking about either gender liberation or sexual liberation, yes,
the goal is for as many people as possible to
be a part of the thing that we are, but
(24:48):
it also creates people that talk a lot and take
up a lot of space. This is actually making me
think think about something that's quite relevant, which is heterosexuals
that were briefly gay or by in media before deciding
they weren't anymore, which included aforementioned Lizzo, who used to
identify as by or sexually fluid and now identifies.
Speaker 2 (25:10):
As an ally.
Speaker 1 (25:11):
So did Nicki Minaj, Yes, Nicki Minaj famously, Katie Perry famously.
I would say Gaga, though you and I disagree about this, well,
I don't agree. Gaga has never walked back her bisexuality, however,
and we identify as an ally. Sure, but no, you're
right she I think she is a queer woman. I
just think she won't use the words queer to describe
(25:33):
herself as it is as a PR truly the least
of her problems and my problems with her. Yeah, agreed, agreed,
but it is. I'm only pointing it out because it's
kind of crazy, like it is actually a thing. Like
people will be by for like a year or less,
and then all of a sudden they get bigger, and
then their PR machines and management and like people convince
(25:54):
them to go back in almost not go back in
the closet, and in a Jesse j kind of way,
like being by was a fan is kind of way,
but like definitely in a way that feels palpable where
they've pivoted specifically to ally. Well, queerness is a marketing tool,
and a lot of these who say that female pop
stars specifically understand that if they can, you know, find
(26:19):
a gay audience who will evangelize them, it will lead
to mainstream success. But then once they acquire that mainstream success,
it's no longer advantageous for them to be publicly queer,
or they maybe become scared of getting canceled, or you know,
(26:39):
are worried about having to prove their queerness right, which
they shouldn't have to. I think that there's something really
rotted about the coming out industrial complex and what it's
done to celebrities that are still trapped in the closet,
because we know of a lot of A listers that
are still trapped in the closet because Hollywood is still
like a very bizarrely homophobic industry, homophobic and transphobic industry.
(27:03):
But yeah, on the flip side of what you're talking about,
not like emerging artists like you know who are making
who are then making it big, people who are already
big and trying to capitalize life a quernas, whether it's
Lizo's Everybody's gay or sorry to name names, you need
to calm down. By Taylor Swift, like the moment of
alship that was that music video, and I think, but
(27:27):
I thought you were convinced Taylor Swift was the white
actual woman. No, I don't know if I mean I
I think she is deeply, deeply repressed. I think she's
a deeply repressed by woman. Yes, I think I think
that that is the tea. But I don't really consider
her queer. I don't think she's living a queer life.
I don't think she has any fluency in queer people.
(27:49):
But also a very straight life. But I also feel
salty about the fact that, like she only did this
whole ally thing, and also I like voiced her opposition
to Trump the day but for or day after A
Lover came out. And also Jenelle Money came out as
queer as pan sexual the day before her album came out,
(28:10):
and then she came out as a non binary the
day before her memoir dropped, literally the day before. On
both accounts, I was like, you should get your coin,
you should cash those chips, you should capitalize on queerness
to get a hat in the industry. I'm a one
hundred percent proponent for that, But why do you gotta
do it the day before?
Speaker 2 (28:31):
Like that's so dick to me.
Speaker 1 (28:34):
Sorry, I love I like drove four and a half
hours to see Jenell Monee open for of Montreal like
way back when, Like I'm an og Jenelle mone standstand
like tightrope Paris stand. Okay, we're I think we're straying
(29:09):
a little far from the discussion of heterosexualney, straying from
what everything's heterosexual? Okay, but what what specifically is heterosexual?
What do you think? What do you think are some
of the straightest things that exist in the world. Okay,
Honda Civics. I used to have a Honda Civic in
high school. Whoa I had to Honda Civics actually because
(29:31):
I crashed one of them. Love heterouality, John Deere, cracker barrel,
arguing in public, women not getting off, Yeah, those are
something spending something back at a restaurant. No, that's that's
just like bitch behavior. I feel like I would do
that if I was displeased.
Speaker 2 (29:52):
Okay, what about you?
Speaker 1 (29:54):
What do I think Florida straight?
Speaker 2 (29:59):
The entire state of Florida.
Speaker 1 (30:01):
Yeah, No, I wouldn't say that. Actually, I would say
more so the state of New Jersey.
Speaker 2 (30:08):
New Jerseys culture.
Speaker 1 (30:13):
Three ring binders.
Speaker 2 (30:14):
Three ring binders. That's good, that's good. That's good.
Speaker 1 (30:17):
Mechanical pencils oh, filling out forms the government.
Speaker 2 (30:22):
Sure, mechanical pencils. That's funny.
Speaker 1 (30:27):
My space, Oh, my space. Yeah, that actually is true
despite it being such like a emo platform. Yeah, because
it's sort of like it's giving an appearance of you know,
like counter culture, but actually like is not in any
way that that what celebrities are deeply heterosexual culture. Uh.
(30:53):
Bruce Springsteen maybe maybe the straightest musical artist, but like
two straight people is a diva? Like is a diva
for my mom? Who? Right, well, well my mom's not
straight kind of for straight people. Yes, I would say
almost the entire cast of Friends is heterosexual culture, except Lizakutro. Yeah,
(31:17):
I was gonna say exceptly Secudro. I would say, I mean,
you've theorized that Kaylee Quoco is the sissist person.
Speaker 2 (31:27):
Yeah, I believe you said Kaylee Cuoco? Is it? Kaylee Kuoko.
Speaker 1 (31:32):
Her stands are called Cuoca nuts, Quoca nuts. Yeah, that
Quoka nuts and their god kay Lee Quoco. The Big
Bang theory the TV show, but also the actual theory
I think is very straight. I think I was gonna
say Avatar, but you'll find me the atom bomb. No,
I was gonna say that well, definitely, the atom Bob
is very heterosexual. I don't know. I saw Oppenheimer. I
(31:52):
think it's very queer. Phoebe, do you have any things
that you think are really straight? War?
Speaker 2 (31:58):
War is straight.
Speaker 1 (31:59):
War is straight, but it's also homo erotic. Well being
drafted into the thing is so many things that are
extremely heterosexual swing so far back that they wind up
being incredibly gay. Greece Dave Matthews Band.
Speaker 2 (32:18):
Good answer. I think I guess Greece the musical is
a very good example of that thing. You're talking about.
Speaker 1 (32:24):
Something that's something that's so heterosexual that swings back to
me actually gay, Like Sandy and what's his face?
Speaker 2 (32:32):
Are in a gay relationship?
Speaker 1 (32:34):
Yeah? Period, Well, actually I think they're in a tea
fort relationship.
Speaker 2 (32:38):
Shut up, they are, they really are. Oh my god,
they really are. Neo classical architecture.
Speaker 1 (32:46):
What is neoclassical architecture? Can you give me an example
of columns? Well, Greece is very gay, though, yeah, but
Rome is very straight. Okay, So Phoebe says war is
very straight. But all so we're positing that it is
in fact very gay, or in fact or at the
very least that getting drafted into the war is very gay.
(33:08):
And I will say getting drafted into the war was
very easily my worst fear growing up as a kid,
that what you were going to say was the worst
thing that ever happened to me. Yeah, something that I
don't something for the visions that you don't know is
that I was in the military from age sixteen. I'm
just imagining what that would have been like. And it's
so funny. It's literally talking about serving your country. You know, well,
(33:32):
I would be serving, honey, I was getting serving and
servicing for sure. I it's like that Twitter serving impacted you. Yeah,
let's ask her.
Speaker 2 (33:43):
But actually no. But like, I don't know if this
is true for you.
Speaker 1 (33:45):
I feel like for a lot of people, people like
and when I found out what the draft was and
that people could be drafted, not in our country at
the time, but like that people were talking about it
when the Iraq war with Iraq war was popping off.
Speaker 2 (33:58):
What I remember being.
Speaker 1 (34:02):
Like, oh my god, being drafted into the military is
the worst fear, and to the is my worst fear,
And to this day, I have sorry, no respect for anybody.
Speaker 2 (34:12):
In the military.
Speaker 1 (34:13):
I don't either. I think that it's a disgusting thing
to sign up for, and that if you want to
be in the military or are in the military, you
should reevaluate what goes inside inside.
Speaker 2 (34:21):
Your brain and what inside your ass or inside your ass.
Speaker 1 (34:24):
Polo shirts, polo specifically, are an extremely straight article of clothing,
and I have made my stance on them clear. I
think they're disgusting and I don't respect anyone who wears them.
I agree. I think anything that you can wear to
Sunday school is heterosexual, and I say polo shirt. I
agree with polo shirts full knowing that gaze that closeted
gaye wore them all throughout the early the mid auts,
(34:47):
you know, like even when gays are wearing them, they
were doing it to partake in heterosexual culture and it
never became gay.
Speaker 2 (34:53):
It was heterosexual assimilation.
Speaker 1 (34:55):
I was going to say, though, about being drafted in
the army. I was never scared of it because I
I always thought, well, if it happens, I'll just kill myself, right. Well, yeah,
but that's my response to every anything potentially let's say,
anything potentially bad that could happen to me. I'm just like,
I'm like that because I just like cross I was like, fine,
I'll just kill myself. Fine, I'll just kill myself. That's
like your catchphrase on your sitcom. Fine, I'll just kill myself. Well,
(35:20):
my sitcom is sort of like south Park, where like
Kenny dies at the end of my episode. I kill
myself at the end of every episode, but then it
resets at the next one. I am absolutely here for
that to com. Let's actually say you and I are
drafted into the military and you do not kill yourself.
Speaker 2 (35:36):
Would never happen.
Speaker 1 (35:38):
I'll play the game what would happen?
Speaker 2 (35:41):
What would happen?
Speaker 1 (35:42):
Then? I think if I would you, I think I
think I would work my way up into the ranks
until I became a general.
Speaker 2 (35:48):
Yeah, because you would want to mistreat people and yell
at them.
Speaker 1 (35:51):
Well, no, I think I would just like if if
I had to be there, I would be really good
at it.
Speaker 2 (35:55):
Have to be the boss, I would probably be similar.
I would need some sort of.
Speaker 1 (35:59):
Yeah Chelsea Chelsea banning. Yeah, I would leak information from
inside for sure. I would actually probably become really like
patriotic pilled and would just like eventually like become a
senator in another life, Like if I had been drafted
into the military early early on, like when I was
(36:19):
in my teens. I'm highly susceptible to cults. I absolutely
would have we know, we do know that because I
absolutely could have been and sexuality of cult, heterosexuality is
a cult that you are inducted to. I think a
lot of people don't realize this, that we are like
forcibly pushed into heteroism. No, I mean heteros Like that's
this is the thing. Like the you know, right wing media,
(36:42):
they want to call us groomers, but the biggest groomers
in the world are straight people, straight people, churches, the
Disney Princess industrial complex, like any representation of like romance
in media before like twenty ten, Like it's all hed
sexual propaganda, as is the military and the government, and
(37:04):
like you know, going stepping outside your door every day,
Like what is the gayest place you've ever been to?
Speaker 2 (37:11):
Not the queerest place the.
Speaker 3 (37:12):
Gang I know, Oh Disney, I mean Disney's fucking gay,
Disneyland or Disney World is which is gay?
Speaker 1 (37:22):
Disney World is gay, for sure, I mean I did that. Also,
New Orleans, New Orleans is very gay, but also is
very queer.
Speaker 2 (37:33):
It is pretty queer. There's a lot of counterculture there.
Speaker 1 (37:35):
New Orleans is very queer, Berlin is very gay. It's
probably too easy to say that Fire Island is maybe
one of the gayest places I've ever been to, but
I will say that, as I talked about recently on
the pod, the Joni Mitchell concert with like ten thousand
other like lesbians for the Brandy Carlisle Festival was definitely
probably the gayest place I've ever been to. What's the
(37:55):
straightest place you've ever been?
Speaker 2 (37:58):
I was a boy Scout for a while.
Speaker 1 (38:01):
Isn't that? Isn't that kind of gay? Though it was
at the time, I never saw it as homosocial. No,
even though I did definitely meet my first boyfriend in
boy Scouts, we didn't date until after. But no, there
was nothing homosocial about it for me, though I do
know that it can be homosocial.
Speaker 2 (38:18):
For some people. At the time, though, it was just.
Speaker 1 (38:21):
This this perfect crystallization of everything I hated about being
a boy and everything I hated about being straight, all
all compressed into weekly meetings and terrible camping trips that
I dreaded every single time I would go to and
subject myself to the things I despise the most. That
(38:43):
are also pillars of heterosexual culture, which are manual labor,
being in closed spaces with only boys.
Speaker 2 (38:51):
And they're all farting and burping, and.
Speaker 1 (38:54):
Organized group activities are very heterosexual.
Speaker 2 (38:58):
Yes, like done a certain way.
Speaker 1 (38:59):
Yes, like on on that in that vein not the
place itself. But when I went on Birthright, yeah, that
trip was maybe the straightest thing I've ever done because like, yes,
I know that Israel is like tel Aviv is very
gay blah blah blah, but the Birthright trip itself was
very straight, and that the leaders of the trip literally
(39:24):
try to pair the people on the trip up because
they want to promote more Jewish babies.
Speaker 2 (39:32):
Right, they want to pair you off their matchmaking.
Speaker 1 (39:35):
Yeah, way, that is heterosexual culture. Also Hasidic Williamsburg disobedience.
That's heterosexuality. Lo like live laugh love, Oh, live laugh love.
Speaker 2 (39:51):
Is very heterocyc.
Speaker 1 (39:53):
But it's also been I mean, this is the thing
about things that are like, yeah, so heterosexual is that
we have now elevated them to camp status. So in
that way, we have reclaimed them as gay a little bit.
The same thing with cracker Barrel. Honestly, yeah, I think
cracker Barrel is very gay. Also, I love Chick fil A.
I will fuck up some Chick fil A. Sorry, Like, now,
(40:15):
what's the straightest fast food franchise?
Speaker 2 (40:18):
Burger King? Right, I was gonna say Burger King two.
Gotta be Burger King. I mean they're okay.
Speaker 1 (40:23):
Actually there is also that era of Quiznos commercials. Nose
is so straight and Subway is queer.
Speaker 2 (40:34):
Yeah, yeah, Phoebe's cracking up.
Speaker 1 (40:37):
What is the what the fuck is yogurt?
Speaker 2 (40:39):
Like it was a yogurt franchise?
Speaker 1 (40:40):
Okay, then then sixty sixteen Handles is gay? Well, then
then I would say red Mango is queer, and I
would say that nineteen Handles is gay and Coldstone is trans. Go,
because there's common the ice cream ice cream is gay,
frozen yogurt is straight, frozen yogurt is straight, Gelato is
hands Wait, let's do more of this.
Speaker 2 (41:06):
What Let's okay things that are gay and straight?
Speaker 1 (41:09):
Okay, So.
Speaker 2 (41:11):
Katy Perry is straight, Lady Gaga is gay.
Speaker 1 (41:15):
And the Army is straight. Okay, The Navy is gay
for sure, NASA is treys period.
Speaker 2 (41:34):
Okay, Well, let's keep going.
Speaker 1 (41:35):
The Sun is straight, he Moon is gay, and Pluto
is trans. You think the moon can feel the moon
is trans. The moon feels like a woman, feels like
a doll. The moon is trans.
Speaker 2 (41:48):
The moon is a doll. And I feel like, what's gay?
Speaker 1 (41:52):
Stars?
Speaker 2 (41:52):
Oh uranus, My god, we're still doing this.
Speaker 1 (41:58):
Let's keep going. I won't rest until everything has been labeled.
(42:22):
I would say that coca cola is.
Speaker 2 (42:26):
Gay.
Speaker 1 (42:27):
No, no, Coca cola is straight. Diet coke is gay.
Speaker 2 (42:31):
Die coca is gay.
Speaker 1 (42:32):
Coke zero is coke. Zero is trans because it's not pepsi.
Pepsi is not trans. Pepsi is like bye maybe, but
like you know, hot coffee is straight. Iced coffee is gay.
Lattes are trans. Lattes are transfer. Sure have all that
extra milk? Yeah, they're there. There, there are a crossing
(42:52):
up across. Wait, you are nailing all of these. I
have yet, I have no notes. I'm very smart. You
are very smart. I am constantly saying that to you.
Blood is gay.
Speaker 2 (43:07):
Blood is because.
Speaker 1 (43:08):
Aids, because aids, and because red because when red cross
was like blood isn't gay, then the gays were like,
blood is our thing. Now blood is gay. Blood is gay.
Skin is straight. Hair is trans.
Speaker 2 (43:22):
Hair, hair is trans.
Speaker 1 (43:23):
I was gonna say organs are trans, but I don't.
I think organs are like kind of non gender specific. Okay,
Calm is gay, spit is transs mucus is straight? Is
well here's what wait this is This is a question
(43:44):
for the group. Do straight people say calm? They say,
is as we learned on and just like that, Oh
my god, they say. They don't say like I'm gonna.
But people will say like, I'm gonna calm.
Speaker 2 (43:56):
Like straight people will say I'm gonna.
Speaker 1 (44:00):
Or do they know what they say, I'm gonna come,
But I don't think they call it come like to
them it's an action.
Speaker 2 (44:05):
Right, it's not. We're the ones that have said this.
Fluid is a noun.
Speaker 1 (44:10):
Nouns are straight nouns, adjectives are gay, verbs are trans.
I'm so good at this.
Speaker 2 (44:18):
I think verbs are Yeah.
Speaker 1 (44:20):
You could say that one hundred percent because they have
so many different forms. Yeah, ad verbs, et cetera. Water
is trans, Air is straight, Yeah, fire is gay. Fire
is gay. Air is straight. Yeah, because it's like the thing.
Speaker 2 (44:41):
It's the thing.
Speaker 1 (44:43):
Yeah, it's the thing that everybody is like orbiting around air. Okay,
so they don't call it come, but they they call
it semen no, they call it jiz.
Speaker 2 (44:53):
They call it jees. That's so male.
Speaker 1 (44:57):
And straight people say, like, do girls say they're gonna like,
oh my god, my jis is everywhere? No, right, like
straight women don't talk about jis. Yeah, discharge.
Speaker 2 (45:08):
I feel like, yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (45:10):
I I'm asking this honestly because I often I really
have no view into what heterosexual cis, heterosexual sex looks
like outside of media. I the the only straight people
in my life really are straight women, and they are
(45:36):
real people.
Speaker 2 (45:39):
It's important to include them.
Speaker 1 (45:41):
No, I mean, straight, straight straight women women are the
gaze of straight people, right, and it's it's your role
as a straight woman, as a straight heterosexual woman is imporan,
and we honor that straight women are queering what it
means to be heterosexual. Okay, on that note of straight women,
(46:03):
I have to say, and I hope this is a
safe space to say, and I hope I can say
it without sounding ignorant or like I'm making a blanket statement.
But I you're going to do with all of that
right now? I feel like when I watch porn with
CIS women in it, it's very difficult for me to
(46:25):
get turned on because because the straight male gaze is
so present. We talked about this a little bit in
our porn episode, and and you said very wisely to me, well, gay.
Speaker 2 (46:36):
Porn is through a male lens.
Speaker 1 (46:38):
Hello, And I feel like, as I've thought about that,
it's like it is about the straight male lens as
opposed to the gay male lens. As I was socialized
and therefore I'm turned on by.
Speaker 2 (46:49):
But I also feel like I would love to be
proven wrong.
Speaker 1 (46:51):
And if anybody has some like queer porn that has
CIS women in it, I would watch it.
Speaker 2 (46:59):
Is that an? Is that a crazy?
Speaker 1 (47:00):
I just feel like a lot of times I don't
think it's a crazy, but like watching it a lot
of times. And then she's like aw, Like I'm it's
just like I want to hear.
Speaker 2 (47:07):
I don't mind gooning.
Speaker 1 (47:08):
I love verbal sex, but there's like a kind of
version of it that is so prevalent in only only
fans content. Can Can you explain to me, I'm I'm
being vulnerable by I'm being vulnerable right now. I don't
know what gooning is.
Speaker 2 (47:23):
Oh, I'm sorry. Gooning.
Speaker 1 (47:24):
This is an amazing thing to educate on on the
podcast because it's not a very common term. Gooning is
when typically poor an actors, but sometimes just people in
your sex life are very much so overdoing their sexual
noises and reactions to things, either because it turns them
on or because it turns you on, or because they
(47:45):
don't even realize that they're doing it, or the performance.
But it's that performance of oh yeah, it's like I
know that, it doesn't feel like that, like I know,
but it's but I'm glad you're.
Speaker 2 (47:58):
Doing it anyways. That's gooning. Thank you, You're welcome.
Speaker 1 (48:01):
Hetero heterosexuality is goooning. I mean, I don't believe. I
don't believe in heterosexuality.
Speaker 2 (48:08):
I think that is the bottom line.
Speaker 1 (48:10):
I think it is not like a fundamental truth of
the universe. Yeah, it's not, and honestly, neither is queerness.
And well, no that's not true. I do believe that.
I mean, okay, okay, I agree heterosexuality is not a
fundamental rule of the universe, which is how we have
treated it an indoctrinated people into it globally. I mean,
(48:31):
people think it is because of procreation, but I think
that's bullshit. It's obviously bullshit because queer people exist and
I think that if we lived in a society where
the options presented were not heterosexuality or societal isolation, which
(48:52):
are the two options at present, if it was like
you get heterosexuality or you can be sexually fluid, or
if sexual fluidity was the baseline, and what we were
indoctrinated into that, I feel like sexual fluidity is natural
order like that to me is how.
Speaker 2 (49:09):
We were made in God's image.
Speaker 1 (49:11):
Period period slide into our DMS that Like a Virgin
four twenty sixty nine, and let us know what part
(49:32):
of the social constructive heterosexuality do you find the most insidious?
Are you a heterosexual ally? And if so, why do
you listen to this podcast? Inquiring minds want to know
you can no judgment.
Speaker 2 (49:49):
We're just curious.
Speaker 1 (49:50):
No, we will be judging. Also, make sure to follow
us while you're there. And if you want exclusive bonus content,
you can become a patron at patreon dot com slash
like a Virgin, we do weekly bonus episodes. We've also
been doing weekly recaps event just like that, and now
that it's ending, we'll be figuring out something new to
(50:11):
do in its place, So you don't want to miss that.
You can also buy our merch at Like a Virgin
four twenty sixty nine dot com, and you can follow
me anywhere you want at ros Daumu, and you can
follow me at friends, squishco anywhere you like. Like a
Virgin is an iHeartRadio production. Our producer is Phoebe Unter,
with support from Lindsay Hoffman and Nikki Etour. Until next week,
(50:36):
Don't Say Straight.
Speaker 2 (50:38):
Don't Say Straight? No, Hey, no straight?
Speaker 1 (50:42):
All Hey Tues Straight and now just a little clip
of our discussion from this next week's Patreon with Laurel
Charleston about Lon Rouge. For the full episode, you can
become a patron at Patreon dot com slash Laura. Do
you want to tell a friend which you told me? Yes?
Speaker 4 (51:03):
Okay, So, first of all, sat down watched this whole
movie with you all, and at the end of the movie,
I'm like, what the fuck did I just watch? I
go home, I go to sleep, I wake up. I'm like,
I don't remember anything from this movie, but I'm like,
I was also stone, so let me rewatch it again.
And then I'm rewatching it and I'm like, oh, I
still have no idea what the fuck's going on in
this movie. The editing is so maximalist and yes, wild
(51:28):
and crazy. I know you all were saying it's one
of like five baz Lureaman movies he's ever made, right
or something.
Speaker 2 (51:33):
Yeah, it's part of.
Speaker 1 (51:35):
The trilogy wild. Yeah, it's incredibly frenetic. He I mean,
it got even worse in Elvis, where it's like every
second is a cut. It's like it's so over edited.
In Mulan Rouge, it works. I don't think it worked
in Elvis. I think Mulan Bruge is Mulin Rouge. And
(51:57):
Romeo and Juliette to me, are like the the films
in which his style and his creative impulses just work
the best because of the the text that they're applied to.
Speaker 4 (52:11):
And like the maximalist scenic design and the costume Maing
is so costume incredible.
Speaker 1 (52:18):
That red dress that Nicole wears, oh, that she puts
on like early in she literally puts it on for
one scene and then immediately changes into a different costume.
I'm pretty sure that the diamond necklace they put on
her in that sequence towards the end what like broke
some sort of Hollywood record for like most expensive, like costume,
(52:39):
jewelry or something at the time, like, well, she is
the spark wing diamond, the spark wing Diamond. She's so
beautiful in this movie. Uh the mug, I mean red.
The makeup's great, the make the hair color. No one
has ever been more of a redhead than Nicole Kidman
was in Mulan Red with her make with her make
(53:00):
up and her hair, she's like so white, she's look
she looks blue.
Speaker 2 (53:03):
She's wearing like ben Ny clowns.
Speaker 4 (53:05):
No, the makeup is great, even like I love as
a makeup artist watching movies and being like, why is
she still panted? Literally, she's like sick, like are dying
at one point in bed smoky eye, lash on brow
on her ripcun blushed, bronze contoured. I mean like, I'm like,
this girl's dying and she's starving.
Speaker 1 (53:22):
Cut. She's dying but I'm living.
Speaker 2 (53:26):
But she that is live, dyed, served cut.
Speaker 1 (53:28):
Yeah. Yeah, it's great. It's so good. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (53:31):
No, her makeup is honestly fantastic about the whole thing.
And she has just like thin, like really long brow and.
Speaker 2 (53:38):
It just it just really works for her.
Speaker 1 (53:40):
Yeah, I think it's great. It's a very early two
thousand's brow.
Speaker 2 (53:44):
Yeah, no one, it.
Speaker 1 (53:45):
Looks that's Oh, she's a beautiful face. She's just so gorgeous.
Speaker 4 (53:49):
Also, she always has her clavical and duck letange out
and it's always dyed and gorgeous, and she's so like.
Speaker 1 (53:55):
Well, she has a cordison, you know, she's got to
show off the merchandise. That is something that is like
somewhat I guess, kind of radical, like for the time
in which this movie was taking place, where it's you know,
this epic love story about a hook girl, about a.
Speaker 4 (54:12):
Little sex worker. Yeah, who's keeping the lights on for
this entire theatrical establishment, like you know, been there.
Speaker 1 (54:20):
She's taking one for the team, for sure. She's taking
several for the team.
Speaker 4 (54:25):
She's taking loads and keeping the lights on.
Speaker 1 (54:27):
Okay, she's taking loads and keeping the the you know,
gas lamps lit.
Speaker 4 (54:32):
She has to suck off the conad man every week,
but they keep it.
Speaker 1 (54:37):
They and she's dying of consumption, which I guess is
like tis yeah, you just kind of you just kind
of cough and look very like Wan and faint and
then die. You would think that Baz Luhrmann invented the
cinematic trope of you cough cough into an napkin and
(55:00):
there's a tiny spot of blood, and you're like, oh,
this character is going to die, but you still serve
kunt until the absolute second of your death. It doesn't,
it doesn't, It doesn't deplete your looks at all. But yeah, like,
you know, you have to slay until you're dying breath,
and she did. She literally walked so President Snow could run.
Speaker 2 (55:20):
Because you know he would.
Speaker 4 (55:21):
He was like, and there's like a little bit of blood,
a little more cock.
Speaker 1 (55:27):
Shuck up.
Time, that's straight, the space time continuous? Is gay matter,
is trans matter?
Speaker 2 (00:13):
She's sheen ami, no ma, not n yo yo. What
is your challenge?
Speaker 1 (00:24):
I am a chokund.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
You know what's going down before round.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
Welcome to Like a Virgin, the show where we give
yesterday's pop culture. Today's takes Arma's Damu.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
And I'm Frank Rada.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
And it is Thursday, which means the final episode of
Dress Like That is airing today, and that means that
tomorrow we will have a recap of it live on
our Patreon Patreon slash Like a Virgin. So go become
a patron now and hear us probably screaming for forty
five minutes about how horrible it is. And if you
(01:12):
haven't gotten into our patreon yet, there is an extra
delicious little clip from this week's Patreon at the very
end of this episode. This week's is discussing Mulin Rouge
with none other than Laurel Charleston. Subscribe to our patreon
to get the full episode, but just a snippet at
the end of this one. Again, that is patreon dot
com slash Like a Virgin and our episode today is
(01:38):
all about something truly sinister and sickening. That is a
play in the world and something that thankfully both of
us have escaped the clutches of. And that is heterosexuality. Yes, heterosexuality,
(02:02):
What is it? And what causes it? In the words
of Willie Norris, we honestly, I was reminiscing when I
was like hopping over to the studio today, And by
the studio, I mean my office next to all of
my vintage pornography and rose have you ever. I'm gonna say, Okay,
(02:22):
you and I. I used to be heterosexual, or I
used to think I was heterosexual. I think this was
maybe I used to pretend to be heterosexual. Well, I
fully did actually think I was or could be. Well,
And so then you were lying to yourself.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
I absolutely was.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
And in the period where maybe you were lying to yourself,
was there any anything in heterosexual culture that you maybe
really secretly loved or partook in and now you're ashamed of? Yeah,
I was so gay, and I was so interested in
(03:00):
gay things, and like you know, like I did. I
went to an art school, like I did theater. All
of my friends were girls. I really didn't participate in
any hetero culture like at all. I'm really like trying
to do the assignment and like racking my brain and actually,
(03:24):
just honestly, don't think I ever pretended to like anything straight.
You're actually touching on Oh wait, wait wait, I do
have an answer. Okay, it's not from my adolescence. Okay,
So when I was in when I was in college
and just after college, I had a predominantly straight group
of friends, and some of them listened to this podcast,
(03:47):
so you know, for forgive me for this, but they
were very into blues music and like Bob Dylan and
acoustic guitars and stuff, and so so at a certain
point like this is like like the end of college
and like right after college, like a lot of the
(04:08):
parties we had or that I went to were very
much characterized by a bunch of people like sitting in
a circle singing along to Bob Dylan. And I did
pretend to be into that, like, probably not very well,
but I participated in it. And it is a reason
why at a certain point in my life I had
(04:29):
a rule that you could not come into my apartment
if you had an acoustic guitar with you because of
the trauma I experienced during that time. And yeah, I
did pretend to be into that sort of like let's
all sit around and sing and like drink whiskey and
like hahaha. And I actually hated it. And that is
(04:50):
the reason why when my best friend from high school
moved to New York City and had had kind of
similar experience, that's why and I like teamed up and
started exploring queerness together, and that's what kind of led
me into queer night life and stuff. Was like that
rejection of that kind of straight culture. So yeah, So
(05:13):
in my youth, I like was very true to myself
and very self possessed and was like no, no hetero.
And then yeah, like in my young adulthood, I did
backslide a little bit, but then I like swung very
hard in the opposite direction. What about you, Fran, What
did you well pretend to like?
Speaker 2 (05:33):
Can I say something about Bob Dylan?
Speaker 1 (05:35):
Yeah, folks, well, yes, I just I feel like, Okay,
I consider myself a very open person in terms of
like cultural consumption.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
I will listen to a lot of things. I will
watch a lot of things.
Speaker 1 (05:50):
If people recommend me stuff or tell me that it's
important to them, I'm going to listen to it. And
particularly the whole part of this podcast. Yes, and particularly
like if someone's gonna turn on some music and I
don't love the music, I'm still gonna like listen to it,
or I'm still gonna find a way to enjoy it
or figure out how it's a specific vibe that can
be enjoyed. Right if someone turns on Bob Dylan, I
(06:15):
am actually standing up and saying, turn that shit off.
I actually, actually, I actually that's like one of the
few next to like sorry, Ava Max Slater, and maybe
like the Beatles. I mean Ava Max's song on the
Barbie album is good.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
Honestly, I guess I'm sure I do have that.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
I do have the term Ava Max muted on Twitter though,
way yeah no. But also, like the Beatles is kind
of in this category. It's like, if you try to
play the Beatles at a function, I'm standing up and
I'm saying, turn that shit off. Well, it's just not
party music. That kind of is not party music. The
one thing I will give that time in my life
is that it did sort of help lead me to
(07:01):
discovering Patti Smith. Although also that was the era of
when just Kids came out, so it was like part
of the culture, so I will I will give it that,
but yeah, I just like, you know, we're there that
time in my life, I did not besides Lady Gaga,
(07:23):
I like didn't listen to pop music because I was
like ashamed to like it because none of my friends
listened to it, and I just like pretended to be
into the things that they were into, and I it
was a It was a very short period of time,
but I still look back on it and I'm like, ough, gross,
I should have not done that. Anyway, What straight things
(07:47):
did you pretend to? Like? Honestly, so many things like
American Eagle, like gay, I know right, it was kind
of gay. I used to have a crush on Lindsay Lohan.
I think I've talked about them or the first thing. Honestly,
when you but you're really just like Diva, I'd be like,
I love your long hair, Diva. No, I feel like
(08:08):
the I feel like pretending to have a crush on
Ladzy Lohan is so funny. It's like pretending like a
like a closeted gig. I being like, yeah, lady, that
Lady Gaga is so fucking hot.
Speaker 2 (08:18):
Yeah, that Lady Gaga is so hot. I love her
cool costumes. They're so hot, her hot, sludy costumes. I love.
Speaker 1 (08:26):
I would be like, I would literally and this is
not this is not an exaggeration. I'd literally be in
like fourth or fifth grade and I'd be like, I'd
be like, yeah, I love Lindsay Lohan because I think
her freckles are so hot. We are hot.
Speaker 2 (08:41):
I know, it's like not a thing.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
Anyways, So when you were talking about music, I immediately thought
about how the first one of the first two albums
I ever bought was The Black Eyed Peas. I believe
elephunk or if not, no, maybe it was a monkey business.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
It was a Black Eyed.
Speaker 1 (08:56):
Peas, the one with pump it out of And that
is actually a musical taste that I have that has
withstood the test of time.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
And I might have maybe not listened.
Speaker 1 (09:07):
Yeah, that's not streat music, the Black Eyed and you
know it, Rose black Eyed Peas is pat neurosexual culture,
like Black Eyed Peas is flash mob culture. It's Oprah
special culture, it's good Morning America culture. It's heterosexuality. I well,
(09:28):
I do think you're you are and this is I
know this, there's nuance here, but I do think you're
conflating heterosexual culture with just monoculture in general, and like, yes,
at the time, at the time when the Black Eyed
Peas were really popular, monoculture was extremely straight. But I
just want to like, I just want to say, like,
(09:50):
I don't think. I don't think the music the Black
Eyed Peas made like is there's inherently something like broie
or hetero or whatever about it. I think it's just
at the time when like the monoculture was so strong
and it was so straight that those things, wait, are
that's actually okay, I've never even thought about that, but
like truly, especially thinking about like the aughts and the
(10:12):
twenty ten specifically are excruciatingly heterosexual. Like actually, like heterosexual
was so prevalent, and it's like funny actually to think
now that in twenty twenty three, like monoculture is kind
of gay. Like it's like like all our icons are gay,
all our celebrities are gay.
Speaker 2 (10:31):
The way we talk is gay.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
Like now straight people say like slay, Yeah, like that's
kind of crazy. Yeah, drag race is more consumed by
straight people than gay people. Yeah, Like now straight people
pretend to like gay things to seem cool. You know,
it's one thing I've I'm not pretending to like just
to squeeze a little topicality into this chit chat section.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, of course is.
Speaker 1 (10:58):
The Addison Ray ep. Baby Okay have you listened? Yeah,
girl girl? It is the fame era Gaga tease she
even had. She even recorded one of Gaga's demos. It's
so catchy and like like like fizzy, like like when
(11:22):
you pour a coke into a glass, like it's like
the fizz at the top, Like that's what this EP is.
It is eleven minutes long. It's really good. There's a
Charlie XCX feature on it. The Gaga demo that she
did a rendition of is Nothing on About the Radio,
which was famously like supposed to be on Born This
(11:43):
Way then it was supposed to be on Art Pop.
There are like there, there are lots of there's a
demo version of it on YouTube, and obviously, like Addison
Ray doesn't sound as good as Gaga does, but it's
very fun and it's just like a dumb little ep
and she kind of is the queen of pop. Wait
and I've never cared about Addison Ray before ever, but
(12:03):
now I see the little monster she is and I
have to respect that that is such a I did
not know about the demo. That is such a serve
just from your description. I have yet to listen to
the EP. I was seeing people tweet about it. I'm
going to listen to it. It is eleven minutes and
fifty seven seconds, and there.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
Are I mean song is too. Yeah, every song is
two minutes and fifteen seconds.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
Love that.
Speaker 2 (12:28):
I can't wait to listen.
Speaker 1 (12:31):
Is she just I don't need a full history, but
she is a TikToker And then she had a Netflix special.
She became famous, I believe during COVID for doing those
little dances on TikTok. Then she was people that get
famous during COVID. Honestly, you know, the cream of the crop. Definitely,
she is always serving as culture. She was sort of
(12:53):
a plant friend on Keeping up with the Kardashians, like
the final season, she was like friends quote unquote with Courtney.
And then yes, she starred in Netflix's She's All That Real.
I almost said, I almost said She's the Man remake,
which I wish now that Netflix is She's All That
(13:18):
remake He's All That which I have watched it is horrible.
And then since then, I think she's mainly but like,
she was supposed to have an album come out and
then it leaked and so she scrapped it. I really
only know this from like things that I've gleaned on
Twitter and likes. Occasionally they'll talk about her on HOO weekly,
And then I think since then, she's just been kind
(13:40):
of like being famous, like in a very unspecific way,
and she has had some gaggy fashion moments wearing like
cool archival stuff, and now she released this EP and
it is sickening. So this is a person who's famous
for being famous, but lo and behold, she has the talent,
and the talent is well, she was famous for dancing
(14:03):
on TikTok and you know that's right dance. That is
some kind of talent. And she like was, Yeah, I
mean I don't care about her, but the CP is fun.
Speaker 2 (14:14):
I'm about to care about her.
Speaker 1 (14:16):
So yeah, not on not a lot of like topical
pop culture this week. But I hope you I hope
you enjoyed our little, uh sort of intro into our
larger conversation about heterosexuality, which is coming up after the break.
And oh, make sure that you subscribe to the patriotic
(14:38):
dot com slash like a Virgin. Was there ever a
(14:59):
time in your life you wanted to be straight? I
mean probably every day, every hour until I was like
seventeen or eighteen. Yeah, that was probably, Yes, my my
greatest wish that. And I wish that I was circumcised
because I thought that my dick looked weird.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
But I love my dick now so now.
Speaker 1 (15:20):
Yeah, and I also don't want to be straight anymore,
which is great. What about you, I got information? Yeah, yeah,
I really really processing all that. I think the only
time I actually wanted to be straight was not ever
when I was gay. It was after I transitioned. I
(15:44):
wanted to be a straight woman, you know, that was
the fantasy, and that was very much like my vibe
for after kind of the terrible twos of transness. Then
I progressed to this point where I was like, I
don't want to be queer anymore. I want to be unclockable,
and I want to be a hetero woman. I want
to be stealth. So that was really the only time
(16:06):
when I ever even flirted with the idea of heterosexuality,
which is, let's say this a disease, A disease one
hundred percent, an epidemic that has become now a national problem,
an international problem, the international implications of it, an international
problem that we are remedying in real time.
Speaker 2 (16:26):
I feel like there are.
Speaker 1 (16:26):
Fewer and fewer heterosexuals in the population thanks to the
work that we have done on this podcast, and one
day it will be eradicated.
Speaker 2 (16:34):
Yeah, one day.
Speaker 1 (16:35):
And honestly, I'm okay not to start here, but because
you were talking about it, like the notion of heterosexuality
as like a trans girl or trans guy, and how
it is kind of this upper echelon of achievement where
the ultimate fantasy if you're adult is to be in
a relationship with a heterosexual man, Like that is still
(16:58):
a pinnacle that people that people want to achieve, like
something that I would even fantasize about.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
And yet I don't know a single trans person.
Speaker 1 (17:10):
That would ever identify as straight, ever, even if they
were technically in a quote unquote straight relationship, Like I
don't know any queer women or men. I don't know
any trans women or men that are like I'm straight, Like,
never heard that before in my life. I'm I've heard
people say it jokingly. Yeah, and maybe somewhat aspirationally, but
(17:33):
never like said it in a way where they're like,
this is my reality and thank God for that. But
I'm sure they exist. Yeah, I'm sure they exist. And
like that's the other thing is like I feel like
this is just my experience. I feel like this is
also your opinion that if you're trans and you're in
a relationship that's a queer relationship period, Like that is
(17:55):
kind of to me how I would function in any relationship.
I do think the straightest relationship a transperson could be
in is a boy girl tea for tea couples is
a boy girl teav and that's maybe the straightest relationship
that exists in the world because you have you have
tried so hard to achieve heterosexuality that it's more heterosexual
(18:17):
than just assists hetero couple. Yes, because you both in
your own ways have like assimilated in some I mean sorry,
like medical transition is a kind of assimilation, whether we
want to admit it or not.
Speaker 2 (18:29):
And in that kind of.
Speaker 1 (18:30):
Assimilation, you've tried to maximize your own masculinity or feminity.
You are trying to execute on the most man or
most woman you can be it's a hat on top
of the hat. Yes, And when you're most men and
most women and you love each other.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
That's heterosexuality. Baby is here.
Speaker 1 (18:48):
We are making points, doing the real work on like
a Virgin four twenty sixty nine period. I know so
view straight people, and there was I even't talked to
a straight person in days. There was a period of
my life when I really did not interact to with
(19:09):
straight people for weeks, if not months at a time
outside of you know, maybe like the checkout person at
a bodega or like a waiter at a restaurant. Like
my social circle, romantic circle, everything was entirely queer people.
And having to then start factoring straight people into my
(19:35):
life on a day to day basis was extremely jarring
because sometimes I would say things and then realize, oh,
that's something that this person would not understand, or like
I said something that's like just for us.
Speaker 2 (19:48):
Inside jokey and not talking about callin Lord or whatever.
Speaker 1 (19:51):
Yeah, and even now I don't have a lot of
straight friends. You know, I support their choices, but it's
very weird when I really when I remember that someone
in my life who I love is straight.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
Yeah, Yeah, I have like three straight friends.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
I think maybe four. I used to have more, but
they've all transitioned or come out as queer. And I
I'm you know, but inclusion is really important.
Speaker 2 (20:18):
Road it is.
Speaker 1 (20:19):
Yeah, I want to be an ally to the straight community. Well,
they're in dire need, they're in pain, they're in pain,
they're living a live. I mean, look at the news
right now, do you like, come on, aliens, Lizzo. I
mean also, like in twenty twenty three, being straight is
such a choice.
Speaker 2 (20:39):
It is, it is.
Speaker 1 (20:40):
Their lifestyle is sick and twisted. It's like and I
just like, grow up, grow up, grow up, eat pussy,
suck dick, grow up or whole or whatever. Then you know,
you're a non specific gender term.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
Whatever your non specific orifice is.
Speaker 1 (20:56):
But it's I, you know, like I live so we
as we talked about on our fan fiction episode with
Ashley Reese, fan fiction is sort of the one sphere
in which heterosexuality is in the minority. And I have
really applied that to my life. And I do think
as we you know, progress as a as a modern society,
(21:21):
that will only become true or and truer in the
world at large. And like, yes, I'm saying that in
a somewhat joking way, but like I also do believe
that like the future is queer, Like I want to
kill myself, but like, but I do think that in well,
I mean, I was gonna say, in a hundred years,
everyone will be queer, but like in one hundred years
this planet won't exist. But in one hundred years, like
(21:42):
the aliens who have you know, sort of like absorbed
some of our like society through watching it from their spaceships,
like they will all be queer.
Speaker 2 (21:56):
Oh yeah, one hundred percent.
Speaker 1 (21:57):
And in my mind, and I hope soon and everybody
else's mind gay until proven heterosexual, I will assume like
and honestly tangentially trans until provences like I and anybody
I speak to or or interact with. That's how I operate,
and I do. I mean not to be the girl
(22:17):
on the pod with the data, but like so many
different studies, that's who you are, that's who I am,
but so many different palls. We don't know if the
data is correct, but we know, you know. That is
the thing about queer trands data is that it is
like heavily skewed and also using like way smaller sample
groups than they should. However, there have been enough studies
to show that you know, as much as half of
(22:39):
gen Z identifies as something other than straight, that at
least a third of them knows someone trans or someone
that uses the them pronouns, and just as much a
sizable chunk of them are people that have this fluency
or knowledge or wherewithal about trans people and queer people
(22:59):
and way that we never had access to.
Speaker 2 (23:02):
And we're on the winning team.
Speaker 1 (23:03):
Sorry. So like when gen Z like mushrooms and becomes
the purchasing power and the people that make the decisions,
like all these dinosaurs are just gonna go to bed.
I mean, I look at the sample of just my
own family and of my mother's for children, three of
us are queer. Yeah, and the there is one straight
one and he is like the straightest person ever.
Speaker 2 (23:27):
Right, but that's just data.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
But he's still in the minority, right And yes, And
I won't stop until all straight people are dead. I
won't stop tell all my siblings are transitioned and gay.
Speaker 2 (23:42):
I yeah, no, it's true.
Speaker 1 (23:44):
It's it's something that I honestly, I almost feel like
the democratization of like queer identities and knowledge around queer
people has almost emboldened the wrong people sometimes, like I mean, well,
I feel like there are certain people that will say
(24:04):
that their gender is fluid, or that they are non binary,
or that they will use quote unquote any pronouns, but
they are, for put, in any other terms, a heterosexual
in a heterosexual relationship with heterosexual communities in a heterosexual world.
But the effort for these people to open up about
their gender, which is obviously different from orientation, inducts them
(24:27):
into a kind of queer community that they then get
to belong to without any fluency or practice in But
you know, it's like they're trying to do something good.
And if we're thinking about either gender liberation or sexual liberation, yes,
the goal is for as many people as possible to
be a part of the thing that we are, but
(24:48):
it also creates people that talk a lot and take
up a lot of space. This is actually making me
think think about something that's quite relevant, which is heterosexuals
that were briefly gay or by in media before deciding
they weren't anymore, which included aforementioned Lizzo, who used to
identify as by or sexually fluid and now identifies.
Speaker 2 (25:10):
As an ally.
Speaker 1 (25:11):
So did Nicki Minaj, Yes, Nicki Minaj famously, Katie Perry famously.
I would say Gaga, though you and I disagree about this, well,
I don't agree. Gaga has never walked back her bisexuality, however,
and we identify as an ally. Sure, but no, you're
right she I think she is a queer woman. I
just think she won't use the words queer to describe
(25:33):
herself as it is as a PR truly the least
of her problems and my problems with her. Yeah, agreed, agreed,
but it is. I'm only pointing it out because it's
kind of crazy, like it is actually a thing. Like
people will be by for like a year or less,
and then all of a sudden they get bigger, and
then their PR machines and management and like people convince
(25:54):
them to go back in almost not go back in
the closet, and in a Jesse j kind of way,
like being by was a fan is kind of way,
but like definitely in a way that feels palpable where
they've pivoted specifically to ally. Well, queerness is a marketing tool,
and a lot of these who say that female pop
stars specifically understand that if they can, you know, find
(26:19):
a gay audience who will evangelize them, it will lead
to mainstream success. But then once they acquire that mainstream success,
it's no longer advantageous for them to be publicly queer,
or they maybe become scared of getting canceled, or you know,
(26:39):
are worried about having to prove their queerness right, which
they shouldn't have to. I think that there's something really
rotted about the coming out industrial complex and what it's
done to celebrities that are still trapped in the closet,
because we know of a lot of A listers that
are still trapped in the closet because Hollywood is still
like a very bizarrely homophobic industry, homophobic and transphobic industry.
(27:03):
But yeah, on the flip side of what you're talking about,
not like emerging artists like you know who are making
who are then making it big, people who are already
big and trying to capitalize life a quernas, whether it's
Lizo's Everybody's gay or sorry to name names, you need
to calm down. By Taylor Swift, like the moment of
alship that was that music video, and I think, but
(27:27):
I thought you were convinced Taylor Swift was the white
actual woman. No, I don't know if I mean I
I think she is deeply, deeply repressed. I think she's
a deeply repressed by woman. Yes, I think I think
that that is the tea. But I don't really consider
her queer. I don't think she's living a queer life.
I don't think she has any fluency in queer people.
(27:49):
But also a very straight life. But I also feel
salty about the fact that, like she only did this
whole ally thing, and also I like voiced her opposition
to Trump the day but for or day after A
Lover came out. And also Jenelle Money came out as
queer as pan sexual the day before her album came out,
(28:10):
and then she came out as a non binary the
day before her memoir dropped, literally the day before. On
both accounts, I was like, you should get your coin,
you should cash those chips, you should capitalize on queerness
to get a hat in the industry. I'm a one
hundred percent proponent for that, But why do you gotta
do it the day before?
Speaker 2 (28:31):
Like that's so dick to me.
Speaker 1 (28:34):
Sorry, I love I like drove four and a half
hours to see Jenell Monee open for of Montreal like
way back when, Like I'm an og Jenelle mone standstand
like tightrope Paris stand. Okay, we're I think we're straying
(29:09):
a little far from the discussion of heterosexualney, straying from
what everything's heterosexual? Okay, but what what specifically is heterosexual?
What do you think? What do you think are some
of the straightest things that exist in the world. Okay,
Honda Civics. I used to have a Honda Civic in
high school. Whoa I had to Honda Civics actually because
(29:31):
I crashed one of them. Love heterouality, John Deere, cracker barrel,
arguing in public, women not getting off, Yeah, those are
something spending something back at a restaurant. No, that's that's
just like bitch behavior. I feel like I would do
that if I was displeased.
Speaker 2 (29:52):
Okay, what about you?
Speaker 1 (29:54):
What do I think Florida straight?
Speaker 2 (29:59):
The entire state of Florida.
Speaker 1 (30:01):
Yeah, No, I wouldn't say that. Actually, I would say
more so the state of New Jersey.
Speaker 2 (30:08):
New Jerseys culture.
Speaker 1 (30:13):
Three ring binders.
Speaker 2 (30:14):
Three ring binders. That's good, that's good. That's good.
Speaker 1 (30:17):
Mechanical pencils oh, filling out forms the government.
Speaker 2 (30:22):
Sure, mechanical pencils. That's funny.
Speaker 1 (30:27):
My space, Oh, my space. Yeah, that actually is true
despite it being such like a emo platform. Yeah, because
it's sort of like it's giving an appearance of you know,
like counter culture, but actually like is not in any
way that that what celebrities are deeply heterosexual culture. Uh.
(30:53):
Bruce Springsteen maybe maybe the straightest musical artist, but like
two straight people is a diva? Like is a diva
for my mom? Who? Right, well, well my mom's not
straight kind of for straight people. Yes, I would say
almost the entire cast of Friends is heterosexual culture, except Lizakutro. Yeah,
(31:17):
I was gonna say exceptly Secudro. I would say, I mean,
you've theorized that Kaylee Quoco is the sissist person.
Speaker 2 (31:27):
Yeah, I believe you said Kaylee Cuoco? Is it? Kaylee Kuoko.
Speaker 1 (31:32):
Her stands are called Cuoca nuts, Quoca nuts. Yeah, that
Quoka nuts and their god kay Lee Quoco. The Big
Bang theory the TV show, but also the actual theory
I think is very straight. I think I was gonna
say Avatar, but you'll find me the atom bomb. No,
I was gonna say that well, definitely, the atom Bob
is very heterosexual. I don't know. I saw Oppenheimer. I
(31:52):
think it's very queer. Phoebe, do you have any things
that you think are really straight? War?
Speaker 2 (31:58):
War is straight.
Speaker 1 (31:59):
War is straight, but it's also homo erotic. Well being
drafted into the thing is so many things that are
extremely heterosexual swing so far back that they wind up
being incredibly gay. Greece Dave Matthews Band.
Speaker 2 (32:18):
Good answer. I think I guess Greece the musical is
a very good example of that thing. You're talking about.
Speaker 1 (32:24):
Something that's something that's so heterosexual that swings back to
me actually gay, Like Sandy and what's his face?
Speaker 2 (32:32):
Are in a gay relationship?
Speaker 1 (32:34):
Yeah? Period, Well, actually I think they're in a tea
fort relationship.
Speaker 2 (32:38):
Shut up, they are, they really are. Oh my god,
they really are. Neo classical architecture.
Speaker 1 (32:46):
What is neoclassical architecture? Can you give me an example
of columns? Well, Greece is very gay, though, yeah, but
Rome is very straight. Okay, So Phoebe says war is
very straight. But all so we're positing that it is
in fact very gay, or in fact or at the
very least that getting drafted into the war is very gay.
(33:08):
And I will say getting drafted into the war was
very easily my worst fear growing up as a kid,
that what you were going to say was the worst
thing that ever happened to me. Yeah, something that I
don't something for the visions that you don't know is
that I was in the military from age sixteen. I'm
just imagining what that would have been like. And it's
so funny. It's literally talking about serving your country. You know, well,
(33:32):
I would be serving, honey, I was getting serving and
servicing for sure. I it's like that Twitter serving impacted you. Yeah,
let's ask her.
Speaker 2 (33:43):
But actually no. But like, I don't know if this
is true for you.
Speaker 1 (33:45):
I feel like for a lot of people, people like
and when I found out what the draft was and
that people could be drafted, not in our country at
the time, but like that people were talking about it
when the Iraq war with Iraq war was popping off.
Speaker 2 (33:58):
What I remember being.
Speaker 1 (34:02):
Like, oh my god, being drafted into the military is
the worst fear, and to the is my worst fear,
And to this day, I have sorry, no respect for anybody.
Speaker 2 (34:12):
In the military.
Speaker 1 (34:13):
I don't either. I think that it's a disgusting thing
to sign up for, and that if you want to
be in the military or are in the military, you
should reevaluate what goes inside inside.
Speaker 2 (34:21):
Your brain and what inside your ass or inside your ass.
Speaker 1 (34:24):
Polo shirts, polo specifically, are an extremely straight article of clothing,
and I have made my stance on them clear. I
think they're disgusting and I don't respect anyone who wears them.
I agree. I think anything that you can wear to
Sunday school is heterosexual, and I say polo shirt. I
agree with polo shirts full knowing that gaze that closeted
gaye wore them all throughout the early the mid auts,
(34:47):
you know, like even when gays are wearing them, they
were doing it to partake in heterosexual culture and it
never became gay.
Speaker 2 (34:53):
It was heterosexual assimilation.
Speaker 1 (34:55):
I was going to say, though, about being drafted in
the army. I was never scared of it because I
I always thought, well, if it happens, I'll just kill myself, right. Well, yeah,
but that's my response to every anything potentially let's say,
anything potentially bad that could happen to me. I'm just like,
I'm like that because I just like cross I was like, fine,
I'll just kill myself. Fine, I'll just kill myself. That's
like your catchphrase on your sitcom. Fine, I'll just kill myself. Well,
(35:20):
my sitcom is sort of like south Park, where like
Kenny dies at the end of my episode. I kill
myself at the end of every episode, but then it
resets at the next one. I am absolutely here for
that to com. Let's actually say you and I are
drafted into the military and you do not kill yourself.
Speaker 2 (35:36):
Would never happen.
Speaker 1 (35:38):
I'll play the game what would happen?
Speaker 2 (35:41):
What would happen?
Speaker 1 (35:42):
Then? I think if I would you, I think I
think I would work my way up into the ranks
until I became a general.
Speaker 2 (35:48):
Yeah, because you would want to mistreat people and yell
at them.
Speaker 1 (35:51):
Well, no, I think I would just like if if
I had to be there, I would be really good
at it.
Speaker 2 (35:55):
Have to be the boss, I would probably be similar.
I would need some sort of.
Speaker 1 (35:59):
Yeah Chelsea Chelsea banning. Yeah, I would leak information from
inside for sure. I would actually probably become really like
patriotic pilled and would just like eventually like become a
senator in another life, Like if I had been drafted
into the military early early on, like when I was
(36:19):
in my teens. I'm highly susceptible to cults. I absolutely
would have we know, we do know that because I
absolutely could have been and sexuality of cult, heterosexuality is
a cult that you are inducted to. I think a
lot of people don't realize this, that we are like
forcibly pushed into heteroism. No, I mean heteros Like that's
this is the thing. Like the you know, right wing media,
(36:42):
they want to call us groomers, but the biggest groomers
in the world are straight people, straight people, churches, the
Disney Princess industrial complex, like any representation of like romance
in media before like twenty ten, Like it's all hed
sexual propaganda, as is the military and the government, and
(37:04):
like you know, going stepping outside your door every day,
Like what is the gayest place you've ever been to?
Speaker 2 (37:11):
Not the queerest place the.
Speaker 3 (37:12):
Gang I know, Oh Disney, I mean Disney's fucking gay,
Disneyland or Disney World is which is gay?
Speaker 1 (37:22):
Disney World is gay, for sure, I mean I did that. Also,
New Orleans, New Orleans is very gay, but also is
very queer.
Speaker 2 (37:33):
It is pretty queer. There's a lot of counterculture there.
Speaker 1 (37:35):
New Orleans is very queer, Berlin is very gay. It's
probably too easy to say that Fire Island is maybe
one of the gayest places I've ever been to, but
I will say that, as I talked about recently on
the pod, the Joni Mitchell concert with like ten thousand
other like lesbians for the Brandy Carlisle Festival was definitely
probably the gayest place I've ever been to. What's the
(37:55):
straightest place you've ever been?
Speaker 2 (37:58):
I was a boy Scout for a while.
Speaker 1 (38:01):
Isn't that? Isn't that kind of gay? Though it was
at the time, I never saw it as homosocial. No,
even though I did definitely meet my first boyfriend in
boy Scouts, we didn't date until after. But no, there
was nothing homosocial about it for me, though I do
know that it can be homosocial.
Speaker 2 (38:18):
For some people. At the time, though, it was just.
Speaker 1 (38:21):
This this perfect crystallization of everything I hated about being
a boy and everything I hated about being straight, all
all compressed into weekly meetings and terrible camping trips that
I dreaded every single time I would go to and
subject myself to the things I despise the most. That
(38:43):
are also pillars of heterosexual culture, which are manual labor,
being in closed spaces with only boys.
Speaker 2 (38:51):
And they're all farting and burping, and.
Speaker 1 (38:54):
Organized group activities are very heterosexual.
Speaker 2 (38:58):
Yes, like done a certain way.
Speaker 1 (38:59):
Yes, like on on that in that vein not the
place itself. But when I went on Birthright, yeah, that
trip was maybe the straightest thing I've ever done because like, yes,
I know that Israel is like tel Aviv is very
gay blah blah blah, but the Birthright trip itself was
very straight, and that the leaders of the trip literally
(39:24):
try to pair the people on the trip up because
they want to promote more Jewish babies.
Speaker 2 (39:32):
Right, they want to pair you off their matchmaking.
Speaker 1 (39:35):
Yeah, way, that is heterosexual culture. Also Hasidic Williamsburg disobedience.
That's heterosexuality. Lo like live laugh love, Oh, live laugh love.
Speaker 2 (39:51):
Is very heterocyc.
Speaker 1 (39:53):
But it's also been I mean, this is the thing
about things that are like, yeah, so heterosexual is that
we have now elevated them to camp status. So in
that way, we have reclaimed them as gay a little bit.
The same thing with cracker Barrel. Honestly, yeah, I think
cracker Barrel is very gay. Also, I love Chick fil A.
I will fuck up some Chick fil A. Sorry, Like, now,
(40:15):
what's the straightest fast food franchise?
Speaker 2 (40:18):
Burger King? Right, I was gonna say Burger King two.
Gotta be Burger King. I mean they're okay.
Speaker 1 (40:23):
Actually there is also that era of Quiznos commercials. Nose
is so straight and Subway is queer.
Speaker 2 (40:34):
Yeah, yeah, Phoebe's cracking up.
Speaker 1 (40:37):
What is the what the fuck is yogurt?
Speaker 2 (40:39):
Like it was a yogurt franchise?
Speaker 1 (40:40):
Okay, then then sixty sixteen Handles is gay? Well, then
then I would say red Mango is queer, and I
would say that nineteen Handles is gay and Coldstone is trans. Go,
because there's common the ice cream ice cream is gay,
frozen yogurt is straight, frozen yogurt is straight, Gelato is
hands Wait, let's do more of this.
Speaker 2 (41:06):
What Let's okay things that are gay and straight?
Speaker 1 (41:09):
Okay, So.
Speaker 2 (41:11):
Katy Perry is straight, Lady Gaga is gay.
Speaker 1 (41:15):
And the Army is straight. Okay, The Navy is gay
for sure, NASA is treys period.
Speaker 2 (41:34):
Okay, Well, let's keep going.
Speaker 1 (41:35):
The Sun is straight, he Moon is gay, and Pluto
is trans. You think the moon can feel the moon
is trans. The moon feels like a woman, feels like
a doll. The moon is trans.
Speaker 2 (41:48):
The moon is a doll. And I feel like, what's gay?
Speaker 1 (41:52):
Stars?
Speaker 2 (41:52):
Oh uranus, My god, we're still doing this.
Speaker 1 (41:58):
Let's keep going. I won't rest until everything has been labeled.
(42:22):
I would say that coca cola is.
Speaker 2 (42:26):
Gay.
Speaker 1 (42:27):
No, no, Coca cola is straight. Diet coke is gay.
Speaker 2 (42:31):
Die coca is gay.
Speaker 1 (42:32):
Coke zero is coke. Zero is trans because it's not pepsi.
Pepsi is not trans. Pepsi is like bye maybe, but
like you know, hot coffee is straight. Iced coffee is gay.
Lattes are trans. Lattes are transfer. Sure have all that
extra milk? Yeah, they're there. There, there are a crossing
(42:52):
up across. Wait, you are nailing all of these. I
have yet, I have no notes. I'm very smart. You
are very smart. I am constantly saying that to you.
Blood is gay.
Speaker 2 (43:07):
Blood is because.
Speaker 1 (43:08):
Aids, because aids, and because red because when red cross
was like blood isn't gay, then the gays were like,
blood is our thing. Now blood is gay. Blood is gay.
Skin is straight. Hair is trans.
Speaker 2 (43:22):
Hair, hair is trans.
Speaker 1 (43:23):
I was gonna say organs are trans, but I don't.
I think organs are like kind of non gender specific. Okay,
Calm is gay, spit is transs mucus is straight? Is
well here's what wait this is This is a question
(43:44):
for the group. Do straight people say calm? They say,
is as we learned on and just like that, Oh
my god, they say. They don't say like I'm gonna.
But people will say like, I'm gonna calm.
Speaker 2 (43:56):
Like straight people will say I'm gonna.
Speaker 1 (44:00):
Or do they know what they say, I'm gonna come,
But I don't think they call it come like to
them it's an action.
Speaker 2 (44:05):
Right, it's not. We're the ones that have said this.
Fluid is a noun.
Speaker 1 (44:10):
Nouns are straight nouns, adjectives are gay, verbs are trans.
I'm so good at this.
Speaker 2 (44:18):
I think verbs are Yeah.
Speaker 1 (44:20):
You could say that one hundred percent because they have
so many different forms. Yeah, ad verbs, et cetera. Water
is trans, Air is straight, Yeah, fire is gay. Fire
is gay. Air is straight. Yeah, because it's like the thing.
Speaker 2 (44:41):
It's the thing.
Speaker 1 (44:43):
Yeah, it's the thing that everybody is like orbiting around air. Okay,
so they don't call it come, but they they call
it semen no, they call it jiz.
Speaker 2 (44:53):
They call it jees. That's so male.
Speaker 1 (44:57):
And straight people say, like, do girls say they're gonna like,
oh my god, my jis is everywhere? No, right, like
straight women don't talk about jis. Yeah, discharge.
Speaker 2 (45:08):
I feel like, yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (45:10):
I I'm asking this honestly because I often I really
have no view into what heterosexual cis, heterosexual sex looks
like outside of media. I the the only straight people
in my life really are straight women, and they are
(45:36):
real people.
Speaker 2 (45:39):
It's important to include them.
Speaker 1 (45:41):
No, I mean, straight, straight straight women women are the
gaze of straight people, right, and it's it's your role
as a straight woman, as a straight heterosexual woman is imporan,
and we honor that straight women are queering what it
means to be heterosexual. Okay, on that note of straight women,
(46:03):
I have to say, and I hope this is a
safe space to say, and I hope I can say
it without sounding ignorant or like I'm making a blanket statement.
But I you're going to do with all of that
right now? I feel like when I watch porn with
CIS women in it, it's very difficult for me to
(46:25):
get turned on because because the straight male gaze is
so present. We talked about this a little bit in
our porn episode, and and you said very wisely to me, well, gay.
Speaker 2 (46:36):
Porn is through a male lens.
Speaker 1 (46:38):
Hello, And I feel like, as I've thought about that,
it's like it is about the straight male lens as
opposed to the gay male lens. As I was socialized
and therefore I'm turned on by.
Speaker 2 (46:49):
But I also feel like I would love to be
proven wrong.
Speaker 1 (46:51):
And if anybody has some like queer porn that has
CIS women in it, I would watch it.
Speaker 2 (46:59):
Is that an? Is that a crazy?
Speaker 1 (47:00):
I just feel like a lot of times I don't
think it's a crazy, but like watching it a lot
of times. And then she's like aw, Like I'm it's
just like I want to hear.
Speaker 2 (47:07):
I don't mind gooning.
Speaker 1 (47:08):
I love verbal sex, but there's like a kind of
version of it that is so prevalent in only only
fans content. Can Can you explain to me, I'm I'm
being vulnerable by I'm being vulnerable right now. I don't
know what gooning is.
Speaker 2 (47:23):
Oh, I'm sorry. Gooning.
Speaker 1 (47:24):
This is an amazing thing to educate on on the
podcast because it's not a very common term. Gooning is
when typically poor an actors, but sometimes just people in
your sex life are very much so overdoing their sexual
noises and reactions to things, either because it turns them
on or because it turns you on, or because they
(47:45):
don't even realize that they're doing it, or the performance.
But it's that performance of oh yeah, it's like I
know that, it doesn't feel like that, like I know,
but it's but I'm glad you're.
Speaker 2 (47:58):
Doing it anyways. That's gooning. Thank you, You're welcome.
Speaker 1 (48:01):
Hetero heterosexuality is goooning. I mean, I don't believe. I
don't believe in heterosexuality.
Speaker 2 (48:08):
I think that is the bottom line.
Speaker 1 (48:10):
I think it is not like a fundamental truth of
the universe. Yeah, it's not, and honestly, neither is queerness.
And well, no that's not true. I do believe that.
I mean, okay, okay, I agree heterosexuality is not a
fundamental rule of the universe, which is how we have
treated it an indoctrinated people into it globally. I mean,
(48:31):
people think it is because of procreation, but I think
that's bullshit. It's obviously bullshit because queer people exist and
I think that if we lived in a society where
the options presented were not heterosexuality or societal isolation, which
(48:52):
are the two options at present, if it was like
you get heterosexuality or you can be sexually fluid, or
if sexual fluidity was the baseline, and what we were
indoctrinated into that, I feel like sexual fluidity is natural
order like that to me is how.
Speaker 2 (49:09):
We were made in God's image.
Speaker 1 (49:11):
Period period slide into our DMS that Like a Virgin
four twenty sixty nine, and let us know what part
(49:32):
of the social constructive heterosexuality do you find the most insidious?
Are you a heterosexual ally? And if so, why do
you listen to this podcast? Inquiring minds want to know
you can no judgment.
Speaker 2 (49:49):
We're just curious.
Speaker 1 (49:50):
No, we will be judging. Also, make sure to follow
us while you're there. And if you want exclusive bonus content,
you can become a patron at patreon dot com slash
like a Virgin, we do weekly bonus episodes. We've also
been doing weekly recaps event just like that, and now
that it's ending, we'll be figuring out something new to
(50:11):
do in its place, So you don't want to miss that.
You can also buy our merch at Like a Virgin
four twenty sixty nine dot com, and you can follow
me anywhere you want at ros Daumu, and you can
follow me at friends, squishco anywhere you like. Like a
Virgin is an iHeartRadio production. Our producer is Phoebe Unter,
with support from Lindsay Hoffman and Nikki Etour. Until next week,
(50:36):
Don't Say Straight.
Speaker 2 (50:38):
Don't Say Straight? No, Hey, no straight?
Speaker 1 (50:42):
All Hey Tues Straight and now just a little clip
of our discussion from this next week's Patreon with Laurel
Charleston about Lon Rouge. For the full episode, you can
become a patron at Patreon dot com slash Laura. Do
you want to tell a friend which you told me? Yes?
Speaker 4 (51:03):
Okay, So, first of all, sat down watched this whole
movie with you all, and at the end of the movie,
I'm like, what the fuck did I just watch? I
go home, I go to sleep, I wake up. I'm like,
I don't remember anything from this movie, but I'm like,
I was also stone, so let me rewatch it again.
And then I'm rewatching it and I'm like, oh, I
still have no idea what the fuck's going on in
this movie. The editing is so maximalist and yes, wild
(51:28):
and crazy. I know you all were saying it's one
of like five baz Lureaman movies he's ever made, right
or something.
Speaker 2 (51:33):
Yeah, it's part of.
Speaker 1 (51:35):
The trilogy wild. Yeah, it's incredibly frenetic. He I mean,
it got even worse in Elvis, where it's like every
second is a cut. It's like it's so over edited.
In Mulan Rouge, it works. I don't think it worked
in Elvis. I think Mulan Bruge is Mulin Rouge. And
(51:57):
Romeo and Juliette to me, are like the the films
in which his style and his creative impulses just work
the best because of the the text that they're applied to.
Speaker 4 (52:11):
And like the maximalist scenic design and the costume Maing
is so costume incredible.
Speaker 1 (52:18):
That red dress that Nicole wears, oh, that she puts
on like early in she literally puts it on for
one scene and then immediately changes into a different costume.
I'm pretty sure that the diamond necklace they put on
her in that sequence towards the end what like broke
some sort of Hollywood record for like most expensive, like costume,
(52:39):
jewelry or something at the time, like, well, she is
the spark wing diamond, the spark wing Diamond. She's so
beautiful in this movie. Uh the mug, I mean red.
The makeup's great, the make the hair color. No one
has ever been more of a redhead than Nicole Kidman
was in Mulan Red with her make with her make
(53:00):
up and her hair, she's like so white, she's look
she looks blue.
Speaker 2 (53:03):
She's wearing like ben Ny clowns.
Speaker 4 (53:05):
No, the makeup is great, even like I love as
a makeup artist watching movies and being like, why is
she still panted? Literally, she's like sick, like are dying
at one point in bed smoky eye, lash on brow
on her ripcun blushed, bronze contoured. I mean like, I'm like,
this girl's dying and she's starving.
Speaker 1 (53:22):
Cut. She's dying but I'm living.
Speaker 2 (53:26):
But she that is live, dyed, served cut.
Speaker 1 (53:28):
Yeah. Yeah, it's great. It's so good. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (53:31):
No, her makeup is honestly fantastic about the whole thing.
And she has just like thin, like really long brow and.
Speaker 2 (53:38):
It just it just really works for her.
Speaker 1 (53:40):
Yeah, I think it's great. It's a very early two
thousand's brow.
Speaker 2 (53:44):
Yeah, no one, it.
Speaker 1 (53:45):
Looks that's Oh, she's a beautiful face. She's just so gorgeous.
Speaker 4 (53:49):
Also, she always has her clavical and duck letange out
and it's always dyed and gorgeous, and she's so like.
Speaker 1 (53:55):
Well, she has a cordison, you know, she's got to
show off the merchandise. That is something that is like
somewhat I guess, kind of radical, like for the time
in which this movie was taking place, where it's you know,
this epic love story about a hook girl, about a.
Speaker 4 (54:12):
Little sex worker. Yeah, who's keeping the lights on for
this entire theatrical establishment, like you know, been there.
Speaker 1 (54:20):
She's taking one for the team, for sure. She's taking
several for the team.
Speaker 4 (54:25):
She's taking loads and keeping the lights on.
Speaker 1 (54:27):
Okay, she's taking loads and keeping the the you know,
gas lamps lit.
Speaker 4 (54:32):
She has to suck off the conad man every week,
but they keep it.
Speaker 1 (54:37):
They and she's dying of consumption, which I guess is
like tis yeah, you just kind of you just kind
of cough and look very like Wan and faint and
then die. You would think that Baz Luhrmann invented the
cinematic trope of you cough cough into an napkin and
(55:00):
there's a tiny spot of blood, and you're like, oh,
this character is going to die, but you still serve
kunt until the absolute second of your death. It doesn't,
it doesn't, It doesn't deplete your looks at all. But yeah, like,
you know, you have to slay until you're dying breath,
and she did. She literally walked so President Snow could run.
Speaker 2 (55:20):
Because you know he would.
Speaker 4 (55:21):
He was like, and there's like a little bit of blood,
a little more cock.
Speaker 1 (55:27):
Shuck up.
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