October 26, 2023 • 49 mins
- 🎶 The only thing to do to celebrate the Season 2 Finale of Like A Virgin is jump over the moon 🎶
- That's right, Fran & Rose are finally talking about RENT
- It's a quintessential episode of Like A Virgin, featuring singing, oversharing, de-virginizing and bleeping
- Plus, a clip from this week's Patreon episode, where Fran & Rose talk about another thing they said they would never do an episode on: American Horror Story. We are taking a break on this feed but there will still be weekly Patreon episodes so you really MUST subscribe now!!Â
Do you pay RENT? Tag our finsta @likeavirgin42069
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
Girl.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
Wait, girl, we don't know what the last five years are.
Tell me, tell me my god, Virginia.
Speaker 3 (00:10):
She's sheen ay no ma, not name yo No? What
is your childhood traumas?
Speaker 1 (00:21):
I am a chuck.
Speaker 3 (00:25):
You what's going down before you?
Speaker 1 (00:29):
So well? Welcome to Like a Virgin, the show where
we give yesterday's pop culture today's takes Arma's dom you.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
I'm Frantrado and.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
There has never been a better time to become a
patron at patreon dot com slash Like a Virgin, where
we do weekly bonus episodes. Because we're going on a
little hiatus.
Speaker 3 (00:56):
It is time for our annual We are tired.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
Yes, season two has come to an end and we're
gonna take some time off from main episodes.
Speaker 3 (01:06):
How do we decide seasons?
Speaker 2 (01:08):
You ask very arbitrary, very arbitrarily, with no rhyme or reason,
and whenever we feel like it. And let me tell you.
We're tired, same time last year. Actually it wasn't the
same time last year. I was a little later last year.
Speaker 3 (01:20):
I can't remember. We were tired.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
We're tired right now. We're gonna go on a little break.
But lucky for you, we have some Patreon episodes in
the bank, mama.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
So while you might be missing us on your weekly feed,
you can still hear us every week at patreon dot
com slash Like a Virgin, where we will be doing
more sort of like chit chatty catchups. We'll be talking
about some spooky season stuff. We'll be finally watching cats
Don't Dance. Yes, oh my god, I'm into submission. So
(01:56):
become a patron and you know, get your weekly of Froze.
That's a combination of our names, Fran and Rose.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
Oh.
Speaker 3 (02:04):
I was like, what froze Frose or Ran Ran.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
Yeah, if you miss us on the main feed, mosey
on over the Patreon if you've never subscribed there that
is patreon dot com slash Like a Virgin.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
So with that in mind, we thought long and hard.
AKA we texted an hour before we had to be
in the studio about what we should you know, end
season two of Like a Virgin with and Phoebe jokingly
suggested the musical rent and we were like, not no,
(02:39):
not no. You Fran literally said not no, not no.
Speaker 3 (02:43):
So said yes.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
And one of the rare times I have said.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
No, that's not your narrative anymore. Rose, you always say yes.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
And oh thanks no, but no, but so yes. Today
we will be loosely discussing, you know, the rock musical Rent,
which you know, took the world by storm in nineteen
ninety six when it premiered both off Broadway and then
eventually on Broadway. Was later adapted into a feature film
(03:14):
by Christopher Columbus, probably the most misguided directing choice ever
made a live musical, and truly like has been weaponized
by theater kids across the globe for.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
Decades now, weaponizing the text of Rent and their bfas
all at the same time.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
When I think of Rent, and I want to know
if you have the same thought, I think very specifically,
and this might be a theater kid thing of the
double CD soundtrack.
Speaker 3 (03:54):
Oh I had that, of course you did.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
I'm pretty sure I had that, Or if I didn't
have it, I definitely checked it out from the library
and burned it, burned both discs, not in.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
The fire like you copied it.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
No, no, no, remember barns our gen Z listeners if we
have any, might not know what that that terminology? Jesus
fucking Christ what gen Z listeners? I honest, So we
definitely have them, really, yeah, oh my god.
Speaker 3 (04:18):
I thought it was mostly it is.
Speaker 1 (04:20):
Mostly memornials, but there are some gen Z people.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
H I know, I used to burn CDs profusely and
I'm sure Rent was one of those things. And for
a very long time, Rent was one of my kind
of key brand pillars. I would say it was like Rent,
it was Mulin Rouge and what else did I believe
in baz lerment?
Speaker 3 (04:44):
I don't.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
I mean, I don't know. I don't know what the
third brand pillar is. I'll come, it'll, it'll come back
to me. But what about you?
Speaker 1 (04:50):
Well, so I might surprise you by saying this, but
I don't really fuck with Rent like that, right, I
you know, I obviously.
Speaker 3 (05:00):
I always think that you're like a super standard.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
No. No, no, I'm obviously with Charlene. No, I'm honestly like,
of course, I'm very familiar with it. I've seen it
on Broadway, I've seen the movie. I know the songs.
I had the soundtrack. But it's not really my tea
with musical theater. I mean, we all know from listening
(05:23):
to this podcast, I am a recovering musical theater girly,
and I am also somewhat reclaiming it as as an adult,
but I always gravitated towards, you know, more classic musicals
and also more bombastic musicals, like we've talked about Phantom
of the Opera Is my favorite musical one of your
(05:44):
key brand pillars? Yes, yeah, definitely at the time, definitely.
And Rent was always a little too poppy for me
as a teenager. Yeah, And I I just didn't really
form my personality around it the way that a lot
(06:05):
of people that I was friends with at the time,
did you know, I was much more likely to be
listening to the Last Five Years soundtrack than I was
listening to Rent.
Speaker 3 (06:16):
What's the Last five Years?
Speaker 1 (06:18):
The Last five Years as a music hole by Jason
Robert Brown?
Speaker 3 (06:21):
Who is that? He's a you wouldn't know him, okay,
and said it like it was somebody that.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
I mean, he is somebody. But if you're a musical
theater girly like that. It's a two person show about
a married couple and the dissolution of their marriage, and
it takes place in opposite timelines. So the musical starts
(06:49):
from the woman's side with the end of their marriage
and then goes backwards in time, and then the man's
side starts from the beginning of their courtship and goes
forward in time and they meet in the middle when
they get married, and it is incredible music. Oh, it's
(07:11):
like a really like interesting storytelling device. Sherry Renee Scott
and Norbert Leo Butts were in the original cast. Shary
Renee Scott is like a Broadway legend and it has
some of my favorite songs in musical theater, like a
Summer in Ohio, like the Schmool song. Just kidding, I
hate the Schmool song. It was adapted into a film
(07:35):
with Anna Kendrick, which is not a bad movie but
is not like gag worthy, but it's I think it
was only ever off Broadway, but my friends and I
were obsessed with it in high school and I specifically remember,
did you ever do one of those all night like
cancer walk a thon thing? Yes?
Speaker 2 (07:57):
Yes, my boyfriend at the time and I jerked each
other off in like a boy Scouts TN.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
Okay, so while you were doing that, my friends and
I were sitting around like an artificial campfire, singing along
to the Last five Years.
Speaker 3 (08:15):
Did you also have to wear t shirts that said
cancer sucks?
Speaker 1 (08:19):
No?
Speaker 2 (08:19):
Okay, we had these T shirts that said cancer sucks,
and all the proceeds went to cancer, not to cancer,
not pro cancer, anti cancer. It was actually to pro
cancer poses people things giving you cancer, no I U.
And every it was like it was like the new
north Face. Like everyone had a cancer sucks T shirt
(08:40):
because they came in lots of different colors, and it
was like really like crazy to have the words sucks
on a T shirt.
Speaker 3 (08:45):
And it'd be like, oh, yeah, I mean.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
That was that was rebellious as fuck in high school. Sucks. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
No, that is kind of the era of culture that
Rent found me. I didn't know that it was an
adaptation of Labohm for a long time.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
It is famously an adaptation of the opera.
Speaker 3 (09:06):
But instead of TV, it's AIDS.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
It's AIDS. So for anyone who doesn't know the basic
premise of Rent, it's about or it's about a group
of young artists and like artists adjacent people living in
New York City in the nineties bohemians and they can't
pay their rent. They live in Alphabet City, which is
you know, downtown on the East Side, and a bunch
(09:29):
of them have AIDS and the only trans person or
like gender queer person is the one who dies of it.
There's a performance artist, there's a filmmaker who sells out.
There's a straight couple who are the great love story
of the piece. Yeah, both have AIDS.
Speaker 3 (09:50):
I forgot that they are.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
They are the centerpiece of the show, the straight couple.
Why because because Jonathan Larson, who wrote the music. And
this is something that a lot of people that gets
obscured a lot. And I mean even when we shut
up and we're talking about this, you were like, oh,
didn't he die from AIDS? And no, he died from
complications from an aneurysm. And he was straight.
Speaker 2 (10:13):
Yeah heterosexual, Yeah, he was straight and unfortunately died the
day after the very first dress rehearsal.
Speaker 1 (10:19):
He died the morning after the Music Hall's final dress rehearsal.
What's your favorite song from Rent?
Speaker 3 (10:26):
That's hard?
Speaker 1 (10:28):
Mm?
Speaker 3 (10:29):
Will you light my candle?
Speaker 1 (10:33):
What are you staring at? Nothing? Your hair in the moonlight?
You look familiar? Can you make it?
Speaker 2 (10:43):
Just?
Speaker 1 (10:43):
Haven't eat much to stop spinning anyway?
Speaker 2 (10:49):
What right?
Speaker 3 (10:49):
Isn't she like coked out or something?
Speaker 1 (10:51):
And she's on Heroin?
Speaker 2 (10:53):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (10:53):
Heroin?
Speaker 1 (10:54):
Yeah? Oh that's she and Roger are both Heroin auticts.
Speaker 3 (10:57):
Oh eh, I used to tie you up.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
It's a living.
Speaker 3 (11:03):
Doesn't the guy who plays Roger is gay?
Speaker 1 (11:05):
I don't think so.
Speaker 3 (11:07):
Oh really, no, Oh my god, that's so confusing.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
Who went on Aida? And then wait, is this the
guy which also has Sharon Scott in it, who was
in the last five years?
Speaker 3 (11:20):
Oh of course.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
I have already told this story, or I've already said
in in maybe the first season of the pod that
this was definitely one of the things that like broke
me open.
Speaker 3 (11:32):
It's I don't know why.
Speaker 2 (11:33):
I'm only realizing that Mulan Rouge and Rent, which both
came into my life around the same time from the
same person who was mel that bisexual goth I was
friends with in They and my best friend's called a Sack.
She showed both of those movies to me, and they're
both about bohemians and they're both based on and they're
bolls based. Oh my god, they're based and they're both
(11:56):
about aids. Well, no, no, she has bargulations. She has consumption.
That's what they called TV.
Speaker 1 (12:07):
You just love saying I do love saying consumption because
I consumption, because I do wish that I was like
a frail Victorian woman coughing up blood into a handkerchief.
Do you want to know what my favorite song from Rento's.
Speaker 3 (12:23):
Yes, forgive me for not asking.
Speaker 1 (12:25):
It's Over the Moon, which is the.
Speaker 3 (12:29):
Song that no one sings, no one's ever heard of
flap song.
Speaker 1 (12:33):
Only thing to do is jump over the Moon. It's
a Dina Menzelle, Maureen's character performing. It's her performance piece
that she does in the first act. It's incredibly iconic.
It's the one where she moves moove with me, moo
with me.
Speaker 3 (12:53):
Oh, the performance art moment.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
It's incredible and you have not lived until you've seen
Charlene do it at TNT on a Tuesday night. Move
with Me.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
Shar is an actual Rent historian, And No's like, we
actually should we text her right now?
Speaker 3 (13:11):
Do you think she's by the studio? She could come
right I actually, I actually talk about it for hours.
Speaker 1 (13:16):
Well, she wrote a piece about rent Out that I
think I commission. I remember this, Yeah, and it was
really great. She she is definitely a rent scholar because
it is a very foundational musical for her. And yeah,
we should have planned ahead and had her back for
this episode, but we didn't.
Speaker 3 (13:34):
We didn't plan ahead at all.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
Also, Rent is a Christmas musical, right it is the
first act takes place on Christmas?
Speaker 3 (13:42):
Or are you and I going to watch it on
December first this year?
Speaker 1 (13:46):
Maybe? I haven't watched the movie in a couple of years.
So the movie came out when I was in I
guess probably when we were both in high school. It
came out on Thanksgiving. I saw it when I was
I was in Connecticut visiting my dad's family for Thanksgiving.
And you know, whenever we did that, there would be
(14:10):
one night where we would all go to the movies
and no one wanted to see Rent except me. But
I bullied my dad into taking me to it gay
and because it's not like I wanted to see it,
But I think the other option was National Treasure, and
I did want to see it because even though I
didn't love Rent, like obviously, I still liked it.
Speaker 2 (14:32):
National Treasure is an exquisite film. I've never seen it.
Speaker 3 (14:37):
It's an amazing movie.
Speaker 1 (14:38):
But I will say, and I know this is kind
of blasphemous. In the years since, I probably have listened
to the movie soundtrack more than the OBC.
Speaker 2 (14:52):
Yeah, no, I definitely listened to the movie soundtrack. The OBCR,
the OBCR.
Speaker 3 (14:57):
The movie son tract is good, the movie music is good.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
It is you know, Rosario Dawson. I love voices. I
love Daphne ruben Vega, who was the original Mimi. She
is iconic both in Rent and in that scene in
the first Sex in the City movie where she talks
to the girls in the bathroom during the auction.
Speaker 3 (15:20):
I just watched.
Speaker 1 (15:21):
She was a smart girl until she fell in love.
But Rosario Dawson kind of four plus four?
Speaker 3 (15:29):
That yeah, wait, what's four plus four? Is this new slang?
Speaker 1 (15:34):
My sisters said it over the weekend, and I'm now adopted.
Speaker 2 (15:38):
I'm so the way my eyes are rolling into my
skull right now, girl, that is It's fine.
Speaker 1 (15:48):
I've got a four plus four that shut up?
Speaker 4 (15:51):
No, but you know that you're now going to say
it off as your own.
Speaker 3 (15:55):
No, I'm not.
Speaker 2 (16:17):
What's the marine? I did a mental song, the first
one to take Me Baby. That's actually why didn't I
I redact what I said earlier.
Speaker 3 (16:27):
My true favorite song is take Me Baby or Lave
Me That song fucks.
Speaker 1 (16:34):
That song was created to be sung at karaoke by
people who are way too into singing it as happened
famously on an episode of Girls Yes This at Hannah's
birthday party when when Marnie tried to get her to
(16:56):
perform it on stage and she didn't want to. Also,
in the first season of Girls Showshana asks Marnie if
she's ever seen rent, and she says, of course, it's
the whole reason I moved to New York. That is
true for a lot of people, which is crazy because like, yes,
(17:17):
it does glamorize this experience of being like poor and
you know, oppressed living in New York City, but it's
also like not super It doesn't make it sound super appealing. No,
Like sure, lev bo M is a fun group number,
but you know the people are like killing dogs and die.
(17:43):
Paying rent and not paying rent. That's the whole premise
of the beginning.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
They they literally are like, we're not gonna pay rent,
and you're kind of like, okay.
Speaker 1 (17:52):
Okay, have you ever not paid rent somewhere you lived?
Speaker 2 (17:58):
No, I did like dit a lease and left my
roommates add a listing with a lease under my name,
and it was just like just fill my room because
the management was unresponsive and just not helpful in doing
anything in terms of like getting next people in, they
like wouldn't it was whatever, we had negligent management. So
(18:19):
I paid rent, I found a subletter, and then I
moved on. But I found out that like months or
years later, my roommates did not pay that rent in
the final months because it was the pandemic, So that
might affect my credit score. Anyways, No, it's never happened,
but you probably have definitely squatted, maybe at least once.
Speaker 1 (18:42):
Yeah, I have once, not technically squatting, not squatting in
a way where the people I lived with and I said,
let squat, but in a way where I just was
very broke and did not pay a couple months of rent.
Speaker 2 (18:57):
I briefly dated this guy who wait, oh wait, have
I told you about this guy that I dated who
co wrote musicals with his brother about the Egyptian Revolution.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
Let's why don't you just tell it again?
Speaker 2 (19:10):
So I literally like started eating this guy super hot,
unfortunately very straight passing. I had no idea who was
gay until we were making out, and then we started
to date and I ended up not really liking him,
but I was between sublets and I didn't have a
place to stay from, so I dated him for another
month so that it crash in his Upper West Side
(19:31):
apartment that his parents paid for and it was worth it.
Speaker 3 (19:36):
And why did I bring that up? Oh?
Speaker 2 (19:38):
Because I wasn't paying rent. You know what sucks? Rent cancer?
Also rent, rent sucks.
Speaker 1 (19:49):
It has every sucked. Every month when my rent leaves
my bank account, a part of my soul leaves my body.
Speaker 2 (19:59):
And can I be vulnerable? This year is the first
year since twenty eighteen where I've had trouble paying rent.
Like twenty eighteen, I was like starving freelancer, really having
trouble making ends, me digging deep into my savings, like
basically was saved by that job a out magazine. And
now I'm like kind of in the same spot. Rent
(20:22):
has really sucked the bone marrow out of my body.
Speaker 3 (20:26):
And it's so expensive. Rose, your rent is really good.
Speaker 1 (20:29):
Well it's about to be. It's starting next month. It's
going up two hundred dollars a month.
Speaker 3 (20:34):
Which is not that bad.
Speaker 1 (20:35):
It's bad.
Speaker 3 (20:36):
It's bad. It's bad, but it's.
Speaker 1 (20:37):
Bad considering nothing has been improved about my apartment.
Speaker 3 (20:42):
Right, did you say that you never email them? I
never emailed them. You should email them.
Speaker 1 (20:46):
It's too late. It's too late. I actually still haven't
told them that I'm renewing my lease and sent the
extra two hundred dollars to add to my security post.
I should do that.
Speaker 3 (20:55):
You should just not pay the rate increase.
Speaker 2 (20:59):
No, I'm not gonna do that. Yeah, just because I'm
not the people in rent. That's the other Yeah, I
just what was the plant?
Speaker 3 (21:06):
Like? What happens after you don't pay? Do you don't
pay rent?
Speaker 1 (21:09):
You get evicted?
Speaker 2 (21:10):
You get evicted? Do you have like squatters rights? What
are squatters right? I?
Speaker 1 (21:16):
Look, I know during the pandemic there was a lot
of discussion about squatters rights and landlords. I never really
investigated it too deeply because I have an incredible fear
of authority and.
Speaker 3 (21:32):
Right shockingly, even though you break every rule, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:35):
But I'm but I also really like following the rules.
Yeah you do, so I don't. I've never been in
a situation.
Speaker 3 (21:43):
You've never been in a situation.
Speaker 1 (21:44):
I've never been in this situation. So, yeah, I don't
know what happens when you stop paying rent? You I
guess start singing.
Speaker 3 (21:57):
I guess you start singing.
Speaker 1 (21:58):
You sing?
Speaker 2 (22:01):
Well, that is the thing, rose, is that when you
cannot pay with money. You pay with art, beautiful, beautiful art.
And the landlords in rent they go, they look, they
took one look at Anthony Rap and they were like.
Speaker 3 (22:14):
Your voice is so beautiful. Well, you don't have to
pay rent.
Speaker 1 (22:16):
Because voice is not beautiful, but it's a pretty great. Wait.
Speaking of Anthony Rap, don't you have tea with him? Oh?
My god?
Speaker 3 (22:28):
Do I have tea with Anthony Rap? Not anymore? But
one time?
Speaker 1 (22:34):
Have you explored each other's bodies?
Speaker 3 (22:36):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (22:37):
No, no, have you explored each other's body? Addy addies.
Speaker 3 (22:41):
He's not my type.
Speaker 2 (22:43):
I don't go for guys that look like like target models,
like if you don't have any like tattoos or that's
pretty accurate. Yeah, like I any if you don't have
any distinctive features, if you're just like a guy like
I can't see you. But he's a gorgeous, talented man,
I'm sure. Anyways, I'm being diplomatic. We got into a fight.
(23:06):
I think around the time that the Charlene piece came
out on out dot com. I think it was a
pag to that are in relation to that, because I
got on my you know, on my little high horse
and tweeted about how the idea of rent was stolen
from Sarah Schulman.
Speaker 1 (23:20):
Which it was?
Speaker 3 (23:21):
Which it it?
Speaker 2 (23:22):
You know, there's no way to prove that it was
fully plagiarized, but I think it's pretty undeniable that he
read her text and and borrowed a lot of things.
I think it's pretty pretty easy to look at the
facts and say that. So if you I don't think, Well,
the other thing is like the book that Sarah wrote
that he plagiarized was kind of one of her flat books,
(23:46):
like go read like Gentrification of the Mind or something
like that. I mean, that book isn't like good quote unquote.
That book just has a lot of like incredible ideas
and thought leadership in it, but it's not like an
enjoyable read. Actually, I would actually venture to say that
Sirciualman is maybe one of the most unfunny people on
the planet. Like she actually and this I'm saying this
as an admirer, Like she is a legend and I
(24:08):
would like love to have a body of work like
hers one day. But she is so on fun and
she cannot see like because of what she's gone through
and what she's reported on. Like you know, if Jonathan
Larson's gonna steal her play. She's gonna never stop talking
about it till the end of time. Anyways, I got
into a fight with Adam Lambert, Matthew Lambert and Anthony
(24:32):
Rap Anthony Rap about it on Twitter of all places,
which I never I said, you you disagree, but I
say I never. I never really get into spars with people.
I will go back and forth. I will like maybe
hit back, but I won't go like back forth, back forth,
back forth. And I went like back forth, back forth,
back forth with Anthony Rap on Twitter. It was kind
(24:54):
of wild.
Speaker 1 (24:56):
What a different time? Yeah, can you and imagine fighting
with someone on Twitter in twenty twenty three?
Speaker 3 (25:04):
Yes, I just did that. Oh your no, Phoebe, please bleep.
Speaker 2 (25:12):
Bravo, Bravo, Bravo, Bravo, Bravo, Bravo, Phoebe, Phoebe, Phoebe.
Speaker 1 (25:15):
Oh wait, Speaking of Jonathan Larson, did you watch Tiktik
Boom when it was amazing? It's incredible? Andrew Garfield four
posport four He four plus four that it's so. I
actually me, I actually maybe liked tick tick Boom more
than rent in high school. Featured Amy Spanger, who later
(25:37):
went on to star in The Wedding Singer, which the
musical which I think I have discussed that I saw
eight times on Broadway my freshman year of college.
Speaker 3 (25:45):
I don't remember that, but I don't think it needs
to be recapped.
Speaker 1 (25:50):
But yeah, the movie of it was I think so
beautifully done.
Speaker 3 (25:55):
Literally never seen The Wedding Singer. And just as a side.
Speaker 1 (25:57):
Note, h the movie. The movie, I think you'd like it, Okay, yeah,
you you like Adam Sandler, No, you like Drew barrymore.
Speaker 2 (26:05):
Love Okay, I mean not now that she's a scab
you but you redacted her scabbery.
Speaker 1 (26:10):
Yeah, you'd you would enjoy the Wedding Singer. Yeah, okay, yeah,
tictic boom exclamation point. The movie was really great. Vanessa
Vanessa Hudgens was so good in it. Andrew Garfield deserves
to have its assay always, but especially for that movie.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
Once again playing wait, is that character gay? No, he's yeah,
because he's because it's basically an autobiographical musical about Jonathan Larson.
I mean it is an autobiographical musical. Sorry to make
this remark again, but Andrew Garfield insists on playing characters
that are not gay. For some reason. And it's always like,
(26:50):
like in that Mormon TV show that we want them,
remember the Mormon Particuped Dow, You're like, that character has
all the bones, make up, motivations and attributes of a
gay person, and yet the character is not gay.
Speaker 3 (27:03):
And that's very surprising to me. And this was the same.
Speaker 2 (27:05):
It's like Matt like Matthew Larson, Anthony Larson, Anthony, Jonathan Larson,
Jonathan Larson, thank you. I was just rolling through all
of the names until I got there, until you got
me there. Jonathan Larson also not gay, kind of wild.
And so I guess it makes sense that famously straight,
famously straight, but definitely thought of culturally as gay. Andrew
(27:26):
Garfield is straight, though he's not like one of those
closeted Hollywood type.
Speaker 1 (27:31):
I mean, I don't know his tea like that, but
to all appearances, he is straight.
Speaker 3 (27:35):
I'm pretty sure.
Speaker 2 (27:36):
I mean, I don't know his tea, but I know
I feel like I would know already he did.
Speaker 1 (27:40):
I do remember the I think the one time that
he got sort of minorly canceled was when he said
something along the lines of like, I'm gay in everything,
but having sex with guys. Like it was him trying
to be like, you know, like I'm like culturally gay.
(28:02):
He really stepped in it that one. But he's a king.
Speaker 2 (28:08):
He is a king, unproblematic, would suck to oblivion. He
used to be a huge crush to me and now
not at all.
Speaker 4 (28:17):
Oh.
Speaker 1 (28:17):
I think he's hotter now than he's ever been. He
got some hair plugs. He looks good.
Speaker 2 (28:22):
Oh see, it's not his age that has deterred me.
It is my personal taste that has grown. I think
that he is still very attractive. He's just not really
he is.
Speaker 3 (28:32):
So foreign.
Speaker 2 (28:37):
Paying rent Wait what was the other there was another
performance art performance and talk about performance arts. So as
as has been somewhat alluded to on other episodes of
this podcast, I have myself dabbled in a bit of
performance art. I you know, at one point in my
(28:57):
life you could say that I was living a life
somewhat adjacent to the lives of the characters in Rent.
Speaker 1 (29:05):
Oh. Would you say, uh, yeah, okay, you know, I
like considered myself like a starving artist, no more of
a Maureene. A Maureene, although you know, being friends with Charlene,
Like I could never actually be Maureene because she is Maureen. Yeah.
I have made some really bad performance art in my time.
(29:26):
I think I mentioned once that at a rave that
I threw once we buried Charlene in a trunk full
of dirt in the middle of a dance floor. I
ate a cow heart once, right, I remember the cow heart.
I covered a watermelon in sunscreen and ate it.
Speaker 3 (29:47):
The artist is present.
Speaker 1 (29:49):
I was doing. I wrote some really horrible you know,
spoken word poetry. Did you really? Oh?
Speaker 3 (29:56):
Yeah, that seems so unlike that.
Speaker 1 (29:58):
I that I then collaborated with a musician to create
an original score. Who was a friend of mine?
Speaker 2 (30:07):
No?
Speaker 3 (30:07):
I mean who was she?
Speaker 1 (30:08):
Who was she? Who were you? She don't say that?
Speaker 3 (30:13):
Yeah, this was so unrecognizable to me.
Speaker 1 (30:16):
I know. But but you know what, I have been
thinking recently that I do miss some of that fearlessness
to look stupid. Are you saying you missed this stage? No,
I don't miss you saying you missed the glamor. I
do not miss the I do not miss a life
on the stage. Yes, as cringey as it can be
(31:00):
to think about, oh my god, I did that in public,
and it's actually more embarrassing. Sometimes it's less embaring to
think about the times when I did it in like
a warehouse full of thousands of people. It's more embarrassing
to think about the times that I did it at
like Macrey Park on a Wednesday, while like six people
were there. That is like a lot cringier. But at
(31:22):
the same time I feel pretty punk or for having
done that.
Speaker 2 (31:29):
That's the history I was literally just talking about. So
I did conduct an interview with Connie Fleming on Friday
for the trans Oral History Project.
Speaker 3 (31:38):
Cool iconic door girl.
Speaker 2 (31:40):
If you don't know her, I mean, she's a model,
she's amused muglare Vivina Westwood, but also like very infamously
an iconic.
Speaker 1 (31:47):
Door, sickening, sickening New York City nightlfe legends.
Speaker 2 (31:50):
And we don't use the word iconic lightly, very intentional
with the use of the word icon even though it
is overused these days. And in interviewing her, I just
talking about how there is such a massive body of
work in nightlife that goes completely undocumented, not in the history,
(32:12):
not in the art world, like not in the echelon
or ancestry of like queer art or art in general,
especially when it comes to like drag artistry, it's like unrecorded,
and some of this stuff, like I mean, pre iPhone
is like lost to eternity because no one there. All
(32:33):
they had was the experience of it. And now which
I do kind of love, I kind of miss love.
Speaker 1 (32:39):
I miss I always really liked the ephemerality of nightlife.
Speaker 2 (32:44):
Yeah, I think that's something that makes it really special
and precious, if not like mystical, that those are things
that those are experiences created by and for queer and
trance people, the most marginalized in New York nightlife.
Speaker 3 (32:58):
Club kids, et cetera.
Speaker 2 (33:00):
And it was all like literally just for that one night,
just for the six people you perform to at TNT, Right,
And how like in the grand scheme of like what
something like Rent is trying to teach us that that's
like even more depressing thinking about all the artists from
that generation that have like unfortunately died and now they're
(33:22):
not a part of the cultural conversation the way someone
like a Sarah Schulman might be or other kinds of
kind of aids generation artists. But I'm really I mean,
I don't know if I'm happy or sad that like
now everything has recorded on the iPhone and so now
all drag performances in the history of forever will be
documented in time somehow. But they're not like collated. They're
(33:44):
not like put in a book. They're not putting museums,
and they really should be because like not to go there.
But like a lot of I know, you didn't do
drag like specifically, but like a lot of drag art
like is way more interesting than like what Marina Abramovich
is doing.
Speaker 1 (33:58):
I'm sorry, yeah, I mean I did that was drag adjacent.
I'm very grateful that most of the public art I
made was pre transition, so if someone were to share it,
it would be kind of an act of violence.
Speaker 3 (34:12):
Yes, love that.
Speaker 1 (34:14):
And also I deleted my Facebook in twenty fifteen, so
so much of what I shared myself is just gone
of my own volition. But I do you know, I
have things saved the vault. In the vault, you know,
maybe one day I'll do a retrospective, a rent respective,
(34:34):
rent respective. I don't know that I would ever like
make performance art again, but you would.
Speaker 3 (34:43):
But would you be on this?
Speaker 1 (34:46):
Would you on mastage? We have been on the stage.
Speaker 2 (34:48):
Girl different as us. Yeah, but it is a performance.
But when I was performing I was performing as me.
Speaker 3 (34:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:57):
Yeah, Well when you eat it, when you eat a
cow heart at one of our podcast recordings, then you know,
maybe I'll be convinced. But I want to see you
what I'm really trying to I want to see you
eat a cow heart again.
Speaker 3 (35:12):
In full drag. I want to see you covered in blood, and.
Speaker 1 (35:18):
Girl, I've been covered in blood many times, and I
have I have lost many venue security deposits over spilling
various things on electric surfaces.
Speaker 2 (35:29):
You're breaking one of Charlene and Kronin's cardinal rules of
nightlife performance, which is don't get to.
Speaker 1 (35:35):
Make a mess on stage. Girl. Where do you think
that rule originated? My my friend Paul, who I used
to throw parties with. He performed as his alter ego
boy Wolf, and he used to I don't think he
started this, but there are definitely I remember sort of
a fad for this happening. He always used to bring
(35:56):
put a tart out on stage before he would perform.
Because he did a lot of stuff with food. It
would get very messy, and so that kind of became
a thing like when you were watching when you were
when you were at a party in Brooklyn and you
saw tarp coming out. You were like, oh, right.
Speaker 4 (36:10):
Here we go again. There the blood. Prepare the blood,
prepare the milk. Prepare the milk, prepare the like fake
vomit flower, Like what a yeah? I mean look, I've
put down a few tarps in my time, and I'm about.
Speaker 3 (36:31):
Just put a arm down last night, Anny, I want
to kill myself. I yeah, I haven't come in like
eight days.
Speaker 1 (36:40):
Oh my god, yeah yeah, wow. I came yesterday, but
it was the first time I had come in like
a week because I was home visiting my family and
just not coming. Yeah, just not coming.
Speaker 2 (36:57):
Well tonight, I want to lay down the term honey,
it's disgusting actually, Like my that's that should be.
Speaker 1 (37:04):
A new thing. Would like you text me like what
are you doing? I'm like, I'm laying on the top.
Speaker 2 (37:10):
What are your I used to own so many tarps?
Do you that used to be in my apartment at
all times?
Speaker 1 (37:18):
I used to own so many tarps.
Speaker 3 (37:20):
Too many tarps, too many tarps.
Speaker 2 (37:24):
Well now I'm gonna put a tarp down every time
I have sex. Is there anything you like need to masturbate?
Do you need like a candle, like a special candle
or no, like some like music or like quiet doesn't
be quiet.
Speaker 1 (37:38):
I need.
Speaker 2 (37:41):
My imagination, your imagination, and friction, and some written erotica
and Uncle Ronney's New.
Speaker 1 (37:47):
Hole No No Girl.
Speaker 4 (37:50):
I read Uncle Ronnie's New Horror like pretty recently did
hold Up. It holds Up, It holds up, except they
use condoms in it.
Speaker 3 (38:04):
That's hot. No safety is hot.
Speaker 1 (38:07):
I mean we are talking about rents.
Speaker 2 (38:08):
I love condoms. I literally love condoms. I will what
I will. I will constantly advocate for a condoms book.
Speaker 1 (38:15):
I'm not saying you shouldn't have saved sex, but we
do live in the era of prep, so yeah, you know, well,
I and in in fiction, in in erotica, you should
not be using condoms.
Speaker 3 (38:30):
Well I have been. I mean, this is okay, that's true.
That's true, that's true.
Speaker 1 (38:34):
Like I will like like sometimes I'll read fan fiction
about like, you know, like this crazy scenario that would
never happen and no, and they will be like, oh,
let me put a condom.
Speaker 3 (38:49):
You put the condom on his tentacles.
Speaker 1 (38:51):
The girl girl, fuck you, I kill myself.
Speaker 3 (38:56):
That's that's kind of wild. I like condoms. I don't
know why.
Speaker 2 (38:59):
I think there's something nice about I think well, I mean,
if there's a mess, like it's less to worry about.
But also like, I mean, have you ever jerked off
into a condom? Yes, of course when I was younger, Yeah,
me too. But now I've been having sex with people
with uteruses where like for something, not all, but some
of them. It's like I would prefer to use a
condom for like whatever reason. But also a lot of
(39:21):
those people like can't get pregnant anyway, So.
Speaker 1 (39:23):
Yeah, and can you even impregnate someone at this point?
I can.
Speaker 2 (39:26):
I still have quite a lot of I mean, not
a lot less than I used to, but I definitely could.
Speaker 3 (39:32):
I mean, I don't know that for sure. I could
be completely infertile. And I think you're shooting blanks.
Speaker 2 (39:36):
I know, I'm I'm I'm not not yet. I've been
monitoring it because.
Speaker 1 (39:40):
I want to try to get me pregnant. Let's have
a baby, shoot, and we'll name it Phoebe.
Speaker 3 (39:48):
The way this devolved so nicely, honestly.
Speaker 1 (39:51):
Yeah. Perfect.
Speaker 3 (39:52):
Anyways, let's not pay rent this month.
Speaker 1 (39:55):
I'm never paying rent again. Actually no, I will be
paying an extra two dollars in rent. But my little pony, pony,
my little pony, My little way of fighting the system
is that I have my auto pay set up to
pay on the fifth of the month. Oh, that's my
way to stick it to the man. They have to
they have to wait an extra five days to get
(40:17):
my money.
Speaker 3 (40:18):
Yeah, the man.
Speaker 2 (40:19):
And for the record, Virgins, we as a podcast know
that all landlords are bad, unless, of course, either Rose
and I decide to be one.
Speaker 1 (40:30):
No, we are not becoming landlord.
Speaker 3 (40:32):
It's alluded many times to potentially be.
Speaker 2 (40:35):
No, and as on the podcast, you have I believe
that about you both said this.
Speaker 3 (40:40):
On the record, Rose, we are off keys.
Speaker 1 (40:43):
So we just so. Loretta LLC just bought a building
that we will be renovated and turning into artist lofts.
Speaker 2 (40:50):
Yeah, bohemian living spaces co ops.
Speaker 1 (40:55):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (40:56):
I was gonna say sex parties, but we can't. We
don't have the infrastructure for that.
Speaker 1 (40:59):
No. I haven't been to a sex party in so long.
Speaker 3 (41:02):
I would like to maybe go to one.
Speaker 1 (41:04):
I got invited to go to a queer romantic comedy
play that is being performed at a sex club, but
there's no, it's not I don't know. I have to
investigate further.
Speaker 2 (41:18):
One of the people that I'm having sex with is
a facilitator of a sex party, and he frequents this
other I don't think he would mind whatever. He frequents
this sex party where it's called it's called studs and mares.
Speaker 1 (41:33):
Who I like that. Yeah, well you know I'm a
horse girl.
Speaker 3 (41:36):
You are horse girl.
Speaker 2 (41:37):
And so the bottoms are the mares, and they don't
wear pants, and they like all stand in a line
like bent over when like the studs walk in and
do whatever they want to the mayors that are like
lined in their stables, so to speak. And this guy
was telling me, I think this is a really good idea.
(41:57):
He was like, I want to have a reverse studs
and Mayor's party, where like it's about the studs and
you walk in and it's all of these tops with
like viagrid out penises and you just mount and they're
the ones that are getting used.
Speaker 3 (42:11):
I think that's amazing.
Speaker 1 (42:12):
And they don't wear pants, but they do wear shirts.
Speaker 3 (42:14):
They're just dildos.
Speaker 1 (42:15):
Yeah, it's that's called. The technical term is shirt cocking. Oh,
when you wear a pant.
Speaker 2 (42:21):
I thought it was called when you wear a shirt,
but no thought it was a Winnie the pooing.
Speaker 1 (42:24):
No, it's shirt cock.
Speaker 3 (42:25):
Shortcock shirt cock.
Speaker 1 (42:28):
No matter what genitally you have, it's called it a
short cocking. So slide into our DM set like a
Virgin four twenty sixty nine. Let us know how much
your rent is. What's your favorite song from Rent?
Speaker 4 (42:49):
Do you?
Speaker 1 (42:49):
We didn't even really talk about Adenamon's all that much,
but we've talked about Adenamon. We have a lot at Like.
Speaker 4 (42:55):
Fit the Bad used to be the only person on
Instagram and now the only bird and we follow on
Instagram is Sally Field.
Speaker 1 (43:01):
Yeah, we need to change that.
Speaker 3 (43:03):
Wait, who's the next? Well, third season?
Speaker 1 (43:05):
Tell us who wants to follow on Instagram next? Also,
you can become a patron at Patreon dot com slash
like a Virgin.
Speaker 2 (43:14):
And remember this is the last time for the season
where you will get us in the main feed.
Speaker 3 (43:19):
So we are taking a break. We will be right back,
but for now.
Speaker 2 (43:23):
We will continue to publish episodes on the Patreon, So
go subscribe over there at Patreon dot com slash like
a Virgin.
Speaker 1 (43:30):
And as always, thanks to producer Phoebe and you know
sho out for now, Yeah, for now and now a
clip from our Patreon. Become a patron at Patreon dot
(43:51):
com Slash Like a Virgin for weekly bonus episodes, and
more so. The seasons I've watched are Murder House, Asylum,
Freak Show. I watched half Hotel. I watched half of Roanoke.
I watched the first It's the season where they like
(44:13):
flip it halfway through and it turns out what you've
been watching is like a TV recreation of something that happened.
I watched the first couple episodes of Cult. I watched
the entirety of Apocalypse. I watched the entirety of nineteen
eighty four Oh my God, which nineteen eighty four is
actually pretty good because it's like very tight. I didn't
(44:36):
watch Double Feature, and I'm I'm currently watching Delicate, so
I've actually watched most of the show.
Speaker 2 (44:42):
Do you feel like Delicate? So I having not seen
all of the other series? Do you feel like Delicate
is kind of different from the rest of the franchise.
Speaker 1 (44:51):
It's smaller like the world because usually American horror story
has lots of competing storylines, and that's part of why
a lot of the seasons are flawed, is because the
ones that you're more interested in don't get as much
time or they drop them or like merge them in
weird ways. I like how tight delicate is focused on
(45:15):
this one character and her story, which I think has
maybe happened over the past couple of years, like probably
like in a lot of ways because of the budget,
like they can't spend as much on like all these actors.
Because even think about Delicate like it has I mean
obviously like having Kim Kardashian as a gag but it
doesn't have like the huge gaggy cast that previous seasons
(45:39):
no have had.
Speaker 2 (45:40):
Like Kim k is playing the same function as Gaga
in an Hotel. To me, it's just like gag casting.
Speaker 3 (45:49):
Sorry, not a great actress.
Speaker 1 (45:52):
I disagree.
Speaker 3 (45:53):
I'm sorry.
Speaker 2 (45:53):
I think that's I think she's so great. I think
that Gaga is better than Kim. Kay, But I do think.
Speaker 1 (45:58):
You haven't seen Hotel.
Speaker 2 (46:00):
I've seen a lot of clips of Hotel, okay. I
I think that Gaga's acting ability has significantly improved since Hotel,
like right, like like.
Speaker 1 (46:11):
I don't know, Okay, I think it's pretty much the same.
Speaker 2 (46:16):
She was basically playing the same character. I mean, no,
I okay, So more on Kim k. You think she's
eating I think she's eating. I mean, I do think
she's incredible. The thing is like, to me, obviously, when
Kim K's on screen, I'm not evaluating her acting like
that's not I was just saying that because like I
was trying to think about them playing the same function
and as like stunt casting in these series. But I'm
(46:36):
not evaluating Kim's acting like she's just and I think
that honestly, the flatness with which she delivers a lot
of her lines in a kardashian esque way works really
well for the affect of says. This is what Bubba says,
was sound like like it's kind of working.
Speaker 1 (46:52):
It's like, I the episode where they go to the
Gotham Awards and Emma Robert's vomits during her speech, and
then the next day she wakes up in her bed
in the morning and Kim is laying in bed next
to her under the covers with her face fully b
I just started cackling.
Speaker 3 (47:12):
It's so insane, mug stamps.
Speaker 1 (47:16):
It's so but she's so good, and like the way
she delivers the lines is so You're right, it is
incredibly flat, but it's really funny. It works, and yeah,
it works, like you're you're never not aware that this
is Kim Kardashian, but like it that works.
Speaker 3 (47:34):
And do you want to know? Do you want to
know a bit of a boma?
Speaker 2 (47:37):
The ending has been spoiled for me because I knew
someone who worked on.
Speaker 3 (47:41):
It, so I actually I think the ending knows.
Speaker 2 (47:45):
I won't spoil it for you, but I think the
ending is a gag, and I think the understanding Obviously
kim Ka is giving villain energy from Jump. I'm not
saying that she is like the Big Bad, but I
will say that a lot of the way is that
all these different things pull off in the way that
Kim k pulls into Like what is at stake here
(48:06):
in the show is really good? What do you think
is happening with her baby?
Speaker 3 (48:12):
Whatever? What are some fan theories that you might have?
Speaker 1 (48:15):
I don't. I'm well, I don't know about fan theories
because it's not like I feel like I'm not going.
It's not like I've been going and looking. I mean,
you know, the clearest, this is obviously very much modeling
itself after Rosemary's Baby. That's very much a big inspiration
for this. So my guess was knowing that you find
(48:38):
you find out in the first episode that Kim and
Emma met in a fertility group. So I think that possibly,
like this baby is being like a grown and harvested
for Kim, right, and Emma is the vessel.
Speaker 3 (48:52):
Okay, that's okay, Okay, love that, But I also.
Speaker 1 (48:56):
Don't know, because the thing is with American horror story,
they could start out with one intention and then halfway
through the season completely abandoned that and decide to do
something else. Like with Covin, they had no idea who
the Supreme was when they started the season, and there
are so many moments of fake outs where they like
(49:17):
try to hedge towards someone like Tessa Familia is clearly
supposed to be like the one who might be the
new Supreme in the beginning of the season, and then
by the end like it being Sarah Paulsen comes out
of totally left field.
Speaker 3 (49:30):
Right.
Speaker 1 (49:31):
So and also, you know we only are getting for now,
We're only getting part one of Delegate because that's all
that was filmed before the strike, right, so you know,
when they go back, they might decide to like change
the whole thing.
Girl.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
Wait, girl, we don't know what the last five years are.
Tell me, tell me my god, Virginia.
Speaker 3 (00:10):
She's sheen ay no ma, not name yo No? What
is your childhood traumas?
Speaker 1 (00:21):
I am a chuck.
Speaker 3 (00:25):
You what's going down before you?
Speaker 1 (00:29):
So well? Welcome to Like a Virgin, the show where
we give yesterday's pop culture today's takes Arma's dom you.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
I'm Frantrado and.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
There has never been a better time to become a
patron at patreon dot com slash Like a Virgin, where
we do weekly bonus episodes. Because we're going on a
little hiatus.
Speaker 3 (00:56):
It is time for our annual We are tired.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
Yes, season two has come to an end and we're
gonna take some time off from main episodes.
Speaker 3 (01:06):
How do we decide seasons?
Speaker 2 (01:08):
You ask very arbitrary, very arbitrarily, with no rhyme or reason,
and whenever we feel like it. And let me tell you.
We're tired, same time last year. Actually it wasn't the
same time last year. I was a little later last year.
Speaker 3 (01:20):
I can't remember. We were tired.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
We're tired right now. We're gonna go on a little break.
But lucky for you, we have some Patreon episodes in
the bank, mama.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
So while you might be missing us on your weekly feed,
you can still hear us every week at patreon dot
com slash Like a Virgin, where we will be doing
more sort of like chit chatty catchups. We'll be talking
about some spooky season stuff. We'll be finally watching cats
Don't Dance. Yes, oh my god, I'm into submission. So
(01:56):
become a patron and you know, get your weekly of Froze.
That's a combination of our names, Fran and Rose.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
Oh.
Speaker 3 (02:04):
I was like, what froze Frose or Ran Ran.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
Yeah, if you miss us on the main feed, mosey
on over the Patreon if you've never subscribed there that
is patreon dot com slash Like a Virgin.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
So with that in mind, we thought long and hard.
AKA we texted an hour before we had to be
in the studio about what we should you know, end
season two of Like a Virgin with and Phoebe jokingly
suggested the musical rent and we were like, not no,
(02:39):
not no. You Fran literally said not no, not no.
Speaker 3 (02:43):
So said yes.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
And one of the rare times I have said.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
No, that's not your narrative anymore. Rose, you always say yes.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
And oh thanks no, but no, but so yes. Today
we will be loosely discussing, you know, the rock musical Rent,
which you know, took the world by storm in nineteen
ninety six when it premiered both off Broadway and then
eventually on Broadway. Was later adapted into a feature film
(03:14):
by Christopher Columbus, probably the most misguided directing choice ever
made a live musical, and truly like has been weaponized
by theater kids across the globe for.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
Decades now, weaponizing the text of Rent and their bfas
all at the same time.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
When I think of Rent, and I want to know
if you have the same thought, I think very specifically,
and this might be a theater kid thing of the
double CD soundtrack.
Speaker 3 (03:54):
Oh I had that, of course you did.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
I'm pretty sure I had that, Or if I didn't
have it, I definitely checked it out from the library
and burned it, burned both discs, not in.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
The fire like you copied it.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
No, no, no, remember barns our gen Z listeners if we
have any, might not know what that that terminology? Jesus
fucking Christ what gen Z listeners? I honest, So we
definitely have them, really, yeah, oh my god.
Speaker 3 (04:18):
I thought it was mostly it is.
Speaker 1 (04:20):
Mostly memornials, but there are some gen Z people.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
H I know, I used to burn CDs profusely and
I'm sure Rent was one of those things. And for
a very long time, Rent was one of my kind
of key brand pillars. I would say it was like Rent,
it was Mulin Rouge and what else did I believe
in baz lerment?
Speaker 3 (04:44):
I don't.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
I mean, I don't know. I don't know what the
third brand pillar is. I'll come, it'll, it'll come back
to me. But what about you?
Speaker 1 (04:50):
Well, so I might surprise you by saying this, but
I don't really fuck with Rent like that, right, I
you know, I obviously.
Speaker 3 (05:00):
I always think that you're like a super standard.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
No. No, no, I'm obviously with Charlene. No, I'm honestly like,
of course, I'm very familiar with it. I've seen it
on Broadway, I've seen the movie. I know the songs.
I had the soundtrack. But it's not really my tea
with musical theater. I mean, we all know from listening
(05:23):
to this podcast, I am a recovering musical theater girly,
and I am also somewhat reclaiming it as as an adult,
but I always gravitated towards, you know, more classic musicals
and also more bombastic musicals, like we've talked about Phantom
of the Opera Is my favorite musical one of your
(05:44):
key brand pillars? Yes, yeah, definitely at the time, definitely.
And Rent was always a little too poppy for me
as a teenager. Yeah, And I I just didn't really
form my personality around it the way that a lot
(06:05):
of people that I was friends with at the time,
did you know, I was much more likely to be
listening to the Last Five Years soundtrack than I was
listening to Rent.
Speaker 3 (06:16):
What's the Last five Years?
Speaker 1 (06:18):
The Last five Years as a music hole by Jason
Robert Brown?
Speaker 3 (06:21):
Who is that? He's a you wouldn't know him, okay,
and said it like it was somebody that.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
I mean, he is somebody. But if you're a musical
theater girly like that. It's a two person show about
a married couple and the dissolution of their marriage, and
it takes place in opposite timelines. So the musical starts
(06:49):
from the woman's side with the end of their marriage
and then goes backwards in time, and then the man's
side starts from the beginning of their courtship and goes
forward in time and they meet in the middle when
they get married, and it is incredible music. Oh, it's
(07:11):
like a really like interesting storytelling device. Sherry Renee Scott
and Norbert Leo Butts were in the original cast. Shary
Renee Scott is like a Broadway legend and it has
some of my favorite songs in musical theater, like a
Summer in Ohio, like the Schmool song. Just kidding, I
hate the Schmool song. It was adapted into a film
(07:35):
with Anna Kendrick, which is not a bad movie but
is not like gag worthy, but it's I think it
was only ever off Broadway, but my friends and I
were obsessed with it in high school and I specifically remember,
did you ever do one of those all night like
cancer walk a thon thing? Yes?
Speaker 2 (07:57):
Yes, my boyfriend at the time and I jerked each
other off in like a boy Scouts TN.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
Okay, so while you were doing that, my friends and
I were sitting around like an artificial campfire, singing along
to the Last five Years.
Speaker 3 (08:15):
Did you also have to wear t shirts that said
cancer sucks?
Speaker 1 (08:19):
No?
Speaker 2 (08:19):
Okay, we had these T shirts that said cancer sucks,
and all the proceeds went to cancer, not to cancer,
not pro cancer, anti cancer. It was actually to pro
cancer poses people things giving you cancer, no I U.
And every it was like it was like the new
north Face. Like everyone had a cancer sucks T shirt
(08:40):
because they came in lots of different colors, and it
was like really like crazy to have the words sucks
on a T shirt.
Speaker 3 (08:45):
And it'd be like, oh, yeah, I mean.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
That was that was rebellious as fuck in high school. Sucks. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
No, that is kind of the era of culture that
Rent found me. I didn't know that it was an
adaptation of Labohm for a long time.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
It is famously an adaptation of the opera.
Speaker 3 (09:06):
But instead of TV, it's AIDS.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
It's AIDS. So for anyone who doesn't know the basic
premise of Rent, it's about or it's about a group
of young artists and like artists adjacent people living in
New York City in the nineties bohemians and they can't
pay their rent. They live in Alphabet City, which is
you know, downtown on the East Side, and a bunch
(09:29):
of them have AIDS and the only trans person or
like gender queer person is the one who dies of it.
There's a performance artist, there's a filmmaker who sells out.
There's a straight couple who are the great love story
of the piece. Yeah, both have AIDS.
Speaker 3 (09:50):
I forgot that they are.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
They are the centerpiece of the show, the straight couple.
Why because because Jonathan Larson, who wrote the music. And
this is something that a lot of people that gets
obscured a lot. And I mean even when we shut
up and we're talking about this, you were like, oh,
didn't he die from AIDS? And no, he died from
complications from an aneurysm. And he was straight.
Speaker 2 (10:13):
Yeah heterosexual, Yeah, he was straight and unfortunately died the
day after the very first dress rehearsal.
Speaker 1 (10:19):
He died the morning after the Music Hall's final dress rehearsal.
What's your favorite song from Rent?
Speaker 3 (10:26):
That's hard?
Speaker 1 (10:28):
Mm?
Speaker 3 (10:29):
Will you light my candle?
Speaker 1 (10:33):
What are you staring at? Nothing? Your hair in the moonlight?
You look familiar? Can you make it?
Speaker 2 (10:43):
Just?
Speaker 1 (10:43):
Haven't eat much to stop spinning anyway?
Speaker 2 (10:49):
What right?
Speaker 3 (10:49):
Isn't she like coked out or something?
Speaker 1 (10:51):
And she's on Heroin?
Speaker 2 (10:53):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (10:53):
Heroin?
Speaker 1 (10:54):
Yeah? Oh that's she and Roger are both Heroin auticts.
Speaker 3 (10:57):
Oh eh, I used to tie you up.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
It's a living.
Speaker 3 (11:03):
Doesn't the guy who plays Roger is gay?
Speaker 1 (11:05):
I don't think so.
Speaker 3 (11:07):
Oh really, no, Oh my god, that's so confusing.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
Who went on Aida? And then wait, is this the
guy which also has Sharon Scott in it, who was
in the last five years?
Speaker 3 (11:20):
Oh of course.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
I have already told this story, or I've already said
in in maybe the first season of the pod that
this was definitely one of the things that like broke
me open.
Speaker 3 (11:32):
It's I don't know why.
Speaker 2 (11:33):
I'm only realizing that Mulan Rouge and Rent, which both
came into my life around the same time from the
same person who was mel that bisexual goth I was
friends with in They and my best friend's called a Sack.
She showed both of those movies to me, and they're
both about bohemians and they're both based on and they're
bolls based. Oh my god, they're based and they're both
(11:56):
about aids. Well, no, no, she has bargulations. She has consumption.
That's what they called TV.
Speaker 1 (12:07):
You just love saying I do love saying consumption because
I consumption, because I do wish that I was like
a frail Victorian woman coughing up blood into a handkerchief.
Do you want to know what my favorite song from Rento's.
Speaker 3 (12:23):
Yes, forgive me for not asking.
Speaker 1 (12:25):
It's Over the Moon, which is the.
Speaker 3 (12:29):
Song that no one sings, no one's ever heard of
flap song.
Speaker 1 (12:33):
Only thing to do is jump over the Moon. It's
a Dina Menzelle, Maureen's character performing. It's her performance piece
that she does in the first act. It's incredibly iconic.
It's the one where she moves moove with me, moo
with me.
Speaker 3 (12:53):
Oh, the performance art moment.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
It's incredible and you have not lived until you've seen
Charlene do it at TNT on a Tuesday night. Move
with Me.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
Shar is an actual Rent historian, And No's like, we
actually should we text her right now?
Speaker 3 (13:11):
Do you think she's by the studio? She could come
right I actually, I actually talk about it for hours.
Speaker 1 (13:16):
Well, she wrote a piece about rent Out that I
think I commission. I remember this, Yeah, and it was
really great. She she is definitely a rent scholar because
it is a very foundational musical for her. And yeah,
we should have planned ahead and had her back for
this episode, but we didn't.
Speaker 3 (13:34):
We didn't plan ahead at all.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
Also, Rent is a Christmas musical, right it is the
first act takes place on Christmas?
Speaker 3 (13:42):
Or are you and I going to watch it on
December first this year?
Speaker 1 (13:46):
Maybe? I haven't watched the movie in a couple of years.
So the movie came out when I was in I
guess probably when we were both in high school. It
came out on Thanksgiving. I saw it when I was
I was in Connecticut visiting my dad's family for Thanksgiving.
And you know, whenever we did that, there would be
(14:10):
one night where we would all go to the movies
and no one wanted to see Rent except me. But
I bullied my dad into taking me to it gay
and because it's not like I wanted to see it,
But I think the other option was National Treasure, and
I did want to see it because even though I
didn't love Rent, like obviously, I still liked it.
Speaker 2 (14:32):
National Treasure is an exquisite film. I've never seen it.
Speaker 3 (14:37):
It's an amazing movie.
Speaker 1 (14:38):
But I will say, and I know this is kind
of blasphemous. In the years since, I probably have listened
to the movie soundtrack more than the OBC.
Speaker 2 (14:52):
Yeah, no, I definitely listened to the movie soundtrack. The OBCR,
the OBCR.
Speaker 3 (14:57):
The movie son tract is good, the movie music is good.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
It is you know, Rosario Dawson. I love voices. I
love Daphne ruben Vega, who was the original Mimi. She
is iconic both in Rent and in that scene in
the first Sex in the City movie where she talks
to the girls in the bathroom during the auction.
Speaker 3 (15:20):
I just watched.
Speaker 1 (15:21):
She was a smart girl until she fell in love.
But Rosario Dawson kind of four plus four?
Speaker 3 (15:29):
That yeah, wait, what's four plus four? Is this new slang?
Speaker 1 (15:34):
My sisters said it over the weekend, and I'm now adopted.
Speaker 2 (15:38):
I'm so the way my eyes are rolling into my
skull right now, girl, that is It's fine.
Speaker 1 (15:48):
I've got a four plus four that shut up?
Speaker 4 (15:51):
No, but you know that you're now going to say
it off as your own.
Speaker 3 (15:55):
No, I'm not.
Speaker 2 (16:17):
What's the marine? I did a mental song, the first
one to take Me Baby. That's actually why didn't I
I redact what I said earlier.
Speaker 3 (16:27):
My true favorite song is take Me Baby or Lave
Me That song fucks.
Speaker 1 (16:34):
That song was created to be sung at karaoke by
people who are way too into singing it as happened
famously on an episode of Girls Yes This at Hannah's
birthday party when when Marnie tried to get her to
(16:56):
perform it on stage and she didn't want to. Also,
in the first season of Girls Showshana asks Marnie if
she's ever seen rent, and she says, of course, it's
the whole reason I moved to New York. That is
true for a lot of people, which is crazy because like, yes,
(17:17):
it does glamorize this experience of being like poor and
you know, oppressed living in New York City, but it's
also like not super It doesn't make it sound super appealing. No,
Like sure, lev bo M is a fun group number,
but you know the people are like killing dogs and die.
(17:43):
Paying rent and not paying rent. That's the whole premise
of the beginning.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
They they literally are like, we're not gonna pay rent,
and you're kind of like, okay.
Speaker 1 (17:52):
Okay, have you ever not paid rent somewhere you lived?
Speaker 2 (17:58):
No, I did like dit a lease and left my
roommates add a listing with a lease under my name,
and it was just like just fill my room because
the management was unresponsive and just not helpful in doing
anything in terms of like getting next people in, they
like wouldn't it was whatever, we had negligent management. So
(18:19):
I paid rent, I found a subletter, and then I
moved on. But I found out that like months or
years later, my roommates did not pay that rent in
the final months because it was the pandemic, So that
might affect my credit score. Anyways, No, it's never happened,
but you probably have definitely squatted, maybe at least once.
Speaker 1 (18:42):
Yeah, I have once, not technically squatting, not squatting in
a way where the people I lived with and I said,
let squat, but in a way where I just was
very broke and did not pay a couple months of rent.
Speaker 2 (18:57):
I briefly dated this guy who wait, oh wait, have
I told you about this guy that I dated who
co wrote musicals with his brother about the Egyptian Revolution.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
Let's why don't you just tell it again?
Speaker 2 (19:10):
So I literally like started eating this guy super hot,
unfortunately very straight passing. I had no idea who was
gay until we were making out, and then we started
to date and I ended up not really liking him,
but I was between sublets and I didn't have a
place to stay from, so I dated him for another
month so that it crash in his Upper West Side
(19:31):
apartment that his parents paid for and it was worth it.
Speaker 3 (19:36):
And why did I bring that up? Oh?
Speaker 2 (19:38):
Because I wasn't paying rent. You know what sucks? Rent cancer?
Also rent, rent sucks.
Speaker 1 (19:49):
It has every sucked. Every month when my rent leaves
my bank account, a part of my soul leaves my body.
Speaker 2 (19:59):
And can I be vulnerable? This year is the first
year since twenty eighteen where I've had trouble paying rent.
Like twenty eighteen, I was like starving freelancer, really having
trouble making ends, me digging deep into my savings, like
basically was saved by that job a out magazine. And
now I'm like kind of in the same spot. Rent
(20:22):
has really sucked the bone marrow out of my body.
Speaker 3 (20:26):
And it's so expensive. Rose, your rent is really good.
Speaker 1 (20:29):
Well it's about to be. It's starting next month. It's
going up two hundred dollars a month.
Speaker 3 (20:34):
Which is not that bad.
Speaker 1 (20:35):
It's bad.
Speaker 3 (20:36):
It's bad. It's bad, but it's.
Speaker 1 (20:37):
Bad considering nothing has been improved about my apartment.
Speaker 3 (20:42):
Right, did you say that you never email them? I
never emailed them. You should email them.
Speaker 1 (20:46):
It's too late. It's too late. I actually still haven't
told them that I'm renewing my lease and sent the
extra two hundred dollars to add to my security post.
I should do that.
Speaker 3 (20:55):
You should just not pay the rate increase.
Speaker 2 (20:59):
No, I'm not gonna do that. Yeah, just because I'm
not the people in rent. That's the other Yeah, I
just what was the plant?
Speaker 3 (21:06):
Like? What happens after you don't pay? Do you don't
pay rent?
Speaker 1 (21:09):
You get evicted?
Speaker 2 (21:10):
You get evicted? Do you have like squatters rights? What
are squatters right? I?
Speaker 1 (21:16):
Look, I know during the pandemic there was a lot
of discussion about squatters rights and landlords. I never really
investigated it too deeply because I have an incredible fear
of authority and.
Speaker 3 (21:32):
Right shockingly, even though you break every rule, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:35):
But I'm but I also really like following the rules.
Yeah you do, so I don't. I've never been in
a situation.
Speaker 3 (21:43):
You've never been in a situation.
Speaker 1 (21:44):
I've never been in this situation. So, yeah, I don't
know what happens when you stop paying rent? You I
guess start singing.
Speaker 3 (21:57):
I guess you start singing.
Speaker 1 (21:58):
You sing?
Speaker 2 (22:01):
Well, that is the thing, rose, is that when you
cannot pay with money. You pay with art, beautiful, beautiful art.
And the landlords in rent they go, they look, they
took one look at Anthony Rap and they were like.
Speaker 3 (22:14):
Your voice is so beautiful. Well, you don't have to
pay rent.
Speaker 1 (22:16):
Because voice is not beautiful, but it's a pretty great. Wait.
Speaking of Anthony Rap, don't you have tea with him? Oh?
My god?
Speaker 3 (22:28):
Do I have tea with Anthony Rap? Not anymore? But
one time?
Speaker 1 (22:34):
Have you explored each other's bodies?
Speaker 3 (22:36):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (22:37):
No, no, have you explored each other's body? Addy addies.
Speaker 3 (22:41):
He's not my type.
Speaker 2 (22:43):
I don't go for guys that look like like target models,
like if you don't have any like tattoos or that's
pretty accurate. Yeah, like I any if you don't have
any distinctive features, if you're just like a guy like
I can't see you. But he's a gorgeous, talented man,
I'm sure. Anyways, I'm being diplomatic. We got into a fight.
(23:06):
I think around the time that the Charlene piece came
out on out dot com. I think it was a
pag to that are in relation to that, because I
got on my you know, on my little high horse
and tweeted about how the idea of rent was stolen
from Sarah Schulman.
Speaker 1 (23:20):
Which it was?
Speaker 3 (23:21):
Which it it?
Speaker 2 (23:22):
You know, there's no way to prove that it was
fully plagiarized, but I think it's pretty undeniable that he
read her text and and borrowed a lot of things.
I think it's pretty pretty easy to look at the
facts and say that. So if you I don't think, Well,
the other thing is like the book that Sarah wrote
that he plagiarized was kind of one of her flat books,
(23:46):
like go read like Gentrification of the Mind or something
like that. I mean, that book isn't like good quote unquote.
That book just has a lot of like incredible ideas
and thought leadership in it, but it's not like an
enjoyable read. Actually, I would actually venture to say that
Sirciualman is maybe one of the most unfunny people on
the planet. Like she actually and this I'm saying this
as an admirer, Like she is a legend and I
(24:08):
would like love to have a body of work like
hers one day. But she is so on fun and
she cannot see like because of what she's gone through
and what she's reported on. Like you know, if Jonathan
Larson's gonna steal her play. She's gonna never stop talking
about it till the end of time. Anyways, I got
into a fight with Adam Lambert, Matthew Lambert and Anthony
(24:32):
Rap Anthony Rap about it on Twitter of all places,
which I never I said, you you disagree, but I
say I never. I never really get into spars with people.
I will go back and forth. I will like maybe
hit back, but I won't go like back forth, back forth,
back forth. And I went like back forth, back forth,
back forth with Anthony Rap on Twitter. It was kind
(24:54):
of wild.
Speaker 1 (24:56):
What a different time? Yeah, can you and imagine fighting
with someone on Twitter in twenty twenty three?
Speaker 3 (25:04):
Yes, I just did that. Oh your no, Phoebe, please bleep.
Speaker 2 (25:12):
Bravo, Bravo, Bravo, Bravo, Bravo, Bravo, Phoebe, Phoebe, Phoebe.
Speaker 1 (25:15):
Oh wait, Speaking of Jonathan Larson, did you watch Tiktik
Boom when it was amazing? It's incredible? Andrew Garfield four
posport four He four plus four that it's so. I
actually me, I actually maybe liked tick tick Boom more
than rent in high school. Featured Amy Spanger, who later
(25:37):
went on to star in The Wedding Singer, which the
musical which I think I have discussed that I saw
eight times on Broadway my freshman year of college.
Speaker 3 (25:45):
I don't remember that, but I don't think it needs
to be recapped.
Speaker 1 (25:50):
But yeah, the movie of it was I think so
beautifully done.
Speaker 3 (25:55):
Literally never seen The Wedding Singer. And just as a side.
Speaker 1 (25:57):
Note, h the movie. The movie, I think you'd like it, Okay, yeah,
you you like Adam Sandler, No, you like Drew barrymore.
Speaker 2 (26:05):
Love Okay, I mean not now that she's a scab
you but you redacted her scabbery.
Speaker 1 (26:10):
Yeah, you'd you would enjoy the Wedding Singer. Yeah, okay, yeah,
tictic boom exclamation point. The movie was really great. Vanessa
Vanessa Hudgens was so good in it. Andrew Garfield deserves
to have its assay always, but especially for that movie.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
Once again playing wait, is that character gay? No, he's yeah,
because he's because it's basically an autobiographical musical about Jonathan Larson.
I mean it is an autobiographical musical. Sorry to make
this remark again, but Andrew Garfield insists on playing characters
that are not gay. For some reason. And it's always like,
(26:50):
like in that Mormon TV show that we want them,
remember the Mormon Particuped Dow, You're like, that character has
all the bones, make up, motivations and attributes of a
gay person, and yet the character is not gay.
Speaker 3 (27:03):
And that's very surprising to me. And this was the same.
Speaker 2 (27:05):
It's like Matt like Matthew Larson, Anthony Larson, Anthony, Jonathan Larson,
Jonathan Larson, thank you. I was just rolling through all
of the names until I got there, until you got
me there. Jonathan Larson also not gay, kind of wild.
And so I guess it makes sense that famously straight,
famously straight, but definitely thought of culturally as gay. Andrew
(27:26):
Garfield is straight, though he's not like one of those
closeted Hollywood type.
Speaker 1 (27:31):
I mean, I don't know his tea like that, but
to all appearances, he is straight.
Speaker 3 (27:35):
I'm pretty sure.
Speaker 2 (27:36):
I mean, I don't know his tea, but I know
I feel like I would know already he did.
Speaker 1 (27:40):
I do remember the I think the one time that
he got sort of minorly canceled was when he said
something along the lines of like, I'm gay in everything,
but having sex with guys. Like it was him trying
to be like, you know, like I'm like culturally gay.
(28:02):
He really stepped in it that one. But he's a king.
Speaker 2 (28:08):
He is a king, unproblematic, would suck to oblivion. He
used to be a huge crush to me and now
not at all.
Speaker 4 (28:17):
Oh.
Speaker 1 (28:17):
I think he's hotter now than he's ever been. He
got some hair plugs. He looks good.
Speaker 2 (28:22):
Oh see, it's not his age that has deterred me.
It is my personal taste that has grown. I think
that he is still very attractive. He's just not really
he is.
Speaker 3 (28:32):
So foreign.
Speaker 2 (28:37):
Paying rent Wait what was the other there was another
performance art performance and talk about performance arts. So as
as has been somewhat alluded to on other episodes of
this podcast, I have myself dabbled in a bit of
performance art. I you know, at one point in my
(28:57):
life you could say that I was living a life
somewhat adjacent to the lives of the characters in Rent.
Speaker 1 (29:05):
Oh. Would you say, uh, yeah, okay, you know, I
like considered myself like a starving artist, no more of
a Maureene. A Maureene, although you know, being friends with Charlene,
Like I could never actually be Maureene because she is Maureen. Yeah.
I have made some really bad performance art in my time.
(29:26):
I think I mentioned once that at a rave that
I threw once we buried Charlene in a trunk full
of dirt in the middle of a dance floor. I
ate a cow heart once, right, I remember the cow heart.
I covered a watermelon in sunscreen and ate it.
Speaker 3 (29:47):
The artist is present.
Speaker 1 (29:49):
I was doing. I wrote some really horrible you know,
spoken word poetry. Did you really? Oh?
Speaker 3 (29:56):
Yeah, that seems so unlike that.
Speaker 1 (29:58):
I that I then collaborated with a musician to create
an original score. Who was a friend of mine?
Speaker 2 (30:07):
No?
Speaker 3 (30:07):
I mean who was she?
Speaker 1 (30:08):
Who was she? Who were you? She don't say that?
Speaker 3 (30:13):
Yeah, this was so unrecognizable to me.
Speaker 1 (30:16):
I know. But but you know what, I have been
thinking recently that I do miss some of that fearlessness
to look stupid. Are you saying you missed this stage? No,
I don't miss you saying you missed the glamor. I
do not miss the I do not miss a life
on the stage. Yes, as cringey as it can be
(31:00):
to think about, oh my god, I did that in public,
and it's actually more embarrassing. Sometimes it's less embaring to
think about the times when I did it in like
a warehouse full of thousands of people. It's more embarrassing
to think about the times that I did it at
like Macrey Park on a Wednesday, while like six people
were there. That is like a lot cringier. But at
(31:22):
the same time I feel pretty punk or for having
done that.
Speaker 2 (31:29):
That's the history I was literally just talking about. So
I did conduct an interview with Connie Fleming on Friday
for the trans Oral History Project.
Speaker 3 (31:38):
Cool iconic door girl.
Speaker 2 (31:40):
If you don't know her, I mean, she's a model,
she's amused muglare Vivina Westwood, but also like very infamously
an iconic.
Speaker 1 (31:47):
Door, sickening, sickening New York City nightlfe legends.
Speaker 2 (31:50):
And we don't use the word iconic lightly, very intentional
with the use of the word icon even though it
is overused these days. And in interviewing her, I just
talking about how there is such a massive body of
work in nightlife that goes completely undocumented, not in the history,
(32:12):
not in the art world, like not in the echelon
or ancestry of like queer art or art in general,
especially when it comes to like drag artistry, it's like unrecorded,
and some of this stuff, like I mean, pre iPhone
is like lost to eternity because no one there. All
(32:33):
they had was the experience of it. And now which
I do kind of love, I kind of miss love.
Speaker 1 (32:39):
I miss I always really liked the ephemerality of nightlife.
Speaker 2 (32:44):
Yeah, I think that's something that makes it really special
and precious, if not like mystical, that those are things
that those are experiences created by and for queer and
trance people, the most marginalized in New York nightlife.
Speaker 3 (32:58):
Club kids, et cetera.
Speaker 2 (33:00):
And it was all like literally just for that one night,
just for the six people you perform to at TNT, Right,
And how like in the grand scheme of like what
something like Rent is trying to teach us that that's
like even more depressing thinking about all the artists from
that generation that have like unfortunately died and now they're
(33:22):
not a part of the cultural conversation the way someone
like a Sarah Schulman might be or other kinds of
kind of aids generation artists. But I'm really I mean,
I don't know if I'm happy or sad that like
now everything has recorded on the iPhone and so now
all drag performances in the history of forever will be
documented in time somehow. But they're not like collated. They're
(33:44):
not like put in a book. They're not putting museums,
and they really should be because like not to go there.
But like a lot of I know, you didn't do
drag like specifically, but like a lot of drag art
like is way more interesting than like what Marina Abramovich
is doing.
Speaker 1 (33:58):
I'm sorry, yeah, I mean I did that was drag adjacent.
I'm very grateful that most of the public art I
made was pre transition, so if someone were to share it,
it would be kind of an act of violence.
Speaker 3 (34:12):
Yes, love that.
Speaker 1 (34:14):
And also I deleted my Facebook in twenty fifteen, so
so much of what I shared myself is just gone
of my own volition. But I do you know, I
have things saved the vault. In the vault, you know,
maybe one day I'll do a retrospective, a rent respective,
(34:34):
rent respective. I don't know that I would ever like
make performance art again, but you would.
Speaker 3 (34:43):
But would you be on this?
Speaker 1 (34:46):
Would you on mastage? We have been on the stage.
Speaker 2 (34:48):
Girl different as us. Yeah, but it is a performance.
But when I was performing I was performing as me.
Speaker 3 (34:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:57):
Yeah, Well when you eat it, when you eat a
cow heart at one of our podcast recordings, then you know,
maybe I'll be convinced. But I want to see you
what I'm really trying to I want to see you
eat a cow heart again.
Speaker 3 (35:12):
In full drag. I want to see you covered in blood, and.
Speaker 1 (35:18):
Girl, I've been covered in blood many times, and I
have I have lost many venue security deposits over spilling
various things on electric surfaces.
Speaker 2 (35:29):
You're breaking one of Charlene and Kronin's cardinal rules of
nightlife performance, which is don't get to.
Speaker 1 (35:35):
Make a mess on stage. Girl. Where do you think
that rule originated? My my friend Paul, who I used
to throw parties with. He performed as his alter ego
boy Wolf, and he used to I don't think he
started this, but there are definitely I remember sort of
a fad for this happening. He always used to bring
(35:56):
put a tart out on stage before he would perform.
Because he did a lot of stuff with food. It
would get very messy, and so that kind of became
a thing like when you were watching when you were
when you were at a party in Brooklyn and you
saw tarp coming out. You were like, oh, right.
Speaker 4 (36:10):
Here we go again. There the blood. Prepare the blood,
prepare the milk. Prepare the milk, prepare the like fake
vomit flower, Like what a yeah? I mean look, I've
put down a few tarps in my time, and I'm about.
Speaker 3 (36:31):
Just put a arm down last night, Anny, I want
to kill myself. I yeah, I haven't come in like
eight days.
Speaker 1 (36:40):
Oh my god, yeah yeah, wow. I came yesterday, but
it was the first time I had come in like
a week because I was home visiting my family and
just not coming. Yeah, just not coming.
Speaker 2 (36:57):
Well tonight, I want to lay down the term honey,
it's disgusting actually, Like my that's that should be.
Speaker 1 (37:04):
A new thing. Would like you text me like what
are you doing? I'm like, I'm laying on the top.
Speaker 2 (37:10):
What are your I used to own so many tarps?
Do you that used to be in my apartment at
all times?
Speaker 1 (37:18):
I used to own so many tarps.
Speaker 3 (37:20):
Too many tarps, too many tarps.
Speaker 2 (37:24):
Well now I'm gonna put a tarp down every time
I have sex. Is there anything you like need to masturbate?
Do you need like a candle, like a special candle
or no, like some like music or like quiet doesn't
be quiet.
Speaker 1 (37:38):
I need.
Speaker 2 (37:41):
My imagination, your imagination, and friction, and some written erotica
and Uncle Ronney's New.
Speaker 1 (37:47):
Hole No No Girl.
Speaker 4 (37:50):
I read Uncle Ronnie's New Horror like pretty recently did
hold Up. It holds Up, It holds up, except they
use condoms in it.
Speaker 3 (38:04):
That's hot. No safety is hot.
Speaker 1 (38:07):
I mean we are talking about rents.
Speaker 2 (38:08):
I love condoms. I literally love condoms. I will what
I will. I will constantly advocate for a condoms book.
Speaker 1 (38:15):
I'm not saying you shouldn't have saved sex, but we
do live in the era of prep, so yeah, you know, well,
I and in in fiction, in in erotica, you should
not be using condoms.
Speaker 3 (38:30):
Well I have been. I mean, this is okay, that's true.
That's true, that's true.
Speaker 1 (38:34):
Like I will like like sometimes I'll read fan fiction
about like, you know, like this crazy scenario that would
never happen and no, and they will be like, oh,
let me put a condom.
Speaker 3 (38:49):
You put the condom on his tentacles.
Speaker 1 (38:51):
The girl girl, fuck you, I kill myself.
Speaker 3 (38:56):
That's that's kind of wild. I like condoms. I don't
know why.
Speaker 2 (38:59):
I think there's something nice about I think well, I mean,
if there's a mess, like it's less to worry about.
But also like, I mean, have you ever jerked off
into a condom? Yes, of course when I was younger, Yeah,
me too. But now I've been having sex with people
with uteruses where like for something, not all, but some
of them. It's like I would prefer to use a
condom for like whatever reason. But also a lot of
(39:21):
those people like can't get pregnant anyway, So.
Speaker 1 (39:23):
Yeah, and can you even impregnate someone at this point?
I can.
Speaker 2 (39:26):
I still have quite a lot of I mean, not
a lot less than I used to, but I definitely could.
Speaker 3 (39:32):
I mean, I don't know that for sure. I could
be completely infertile. And I think you're shooting blanks.
Speaker 2 (39:36):
I know, I'm I'm I'm not not yet. I've been
monitoring it because.
Speaker 1 (39:40):
I want to try to get me pregnant. Let's have
a baby, shoot, and we'll name it Phoebe.
Speaker 3 (39:48):
The way this devolved so nicely, honestly.
Speaker 1 (39:51):
Yeah. Perfect.
Speaker 3 (39:52):
Anyways, let's not pay rent this month.
Speaker 1 (39:55):
I'm never paying rent again. Actually no, I will be
paying an extra two dollars in rent. But my little pony, pony,
my little pony, My little way of fighting the system
is that I have my auto pay set up to
pay on the fifth of the month. Oh, that's my
way to stick it to the man. They have to
they have to wait an extra five days to get
(40:17):
my money.
Speaker 3 (40:18):
Yeah, the man.
Speaker 2 (40:19):
And for the record, Virgins, we as a podcast know
that all landlords are bad, unless, of course, either Rose
and I decide to be one.
Speaker 1 (40:30):
No, we are not becoming landlord.
Speaker 3 (40:32):
It's alluded many times to potentially be.
Speaker 2 (40:35):
No, and as on the podcast, you have I believe
that about you both said this.
Speaker 3 (40:40):
On the record, Rose, we are off keys.
Speaker 1 (40:43):
So we just so. Loretta LLC just bought a building
that we will be renovated and turning into artist lofts.
Speaker 2 (40:50):
Yeah, bohemian living spaces co ops.
Speaker 1 (40:55):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (40:56):
I was gonna say sex parties, but we can't. We
don't have the infrastructure for that.
Speaker 1 (40:59):
No. I haven't been to a sex party in so long.
Speaker 3 (41:02):
I would like to maybe go to one.
Speaker 1 (41:04):
I got invited to go to a queer romantic comedy
play that is being performed at a sex club, but
there's no, it's not I don't know. I have to
investigate further.
Speaker 2 (41:18):
One of the people that I'm having sex with is
a facilitator of a sex party, and he frequents this
other I don't think he would mind whatever. He frequents
this sex party where it's called it's called studs and mares.
Speaker 1 (41:33):
Who I like that. Yeah, well you know I'm a
horse girl.
Speaker 3 (41:36):
You are horse girl.
Speaker 2 (41:37):
And so the bottoms are the mares, and they don't
wear pants, and they like all stand in a line
like bent over when like the studs walk in and
do whatever they want to the mayors that are like
lined in their stables, so to speak. And this guy
was telling me, I think this is a really good idea.
(41:57):
He was like, I want to have a reverse studs
and Mayor's party, where like it's about the studs and
you walk in and it's all of these tops with
like viagrid out penises and you just mount and they're
the ones that are getting used.
Speaker 3 (42:11):
I think that's amazing.
Speaker 1 (42:12):
And they don't wear pants, but they do wear shirts.
Speaker 3 (42:14):
They're just dildos.
Speaker 1 (42:15):
Yeah, it's that's called. The technical term is shirt cocking. Oh,
when you wear a pant.
Speaker 2 (42:21):
I thought it was called when you wear a shirt,
but no thought it was a Winnie the pooing.
Speaker 1 (42:24):
No, it's shirt cock.
Speaker 3 (42:25):
Shortcock shirt cock.
Speaker 1 (42:28):
No matter what genitally you have, it's called it a
short cocking. So slide into our DM set like a
Virgin four twenty sixty nine. Let us know how much
your rent is. What's your favorite song from Rent?
Speaker 4 (42:49):
Do you?
Speaker 1 (42:49):
We didn't even really talk about Adenamon's all that much,
but we've talked about Adenamon. We have a lot at Like.
Speaker 4 (42:55):
Fit the Bad used to be the only person on
Instagram and now the only bird and we follow on
Instagram is Sally Field.
Speaker 1 (43:01):
Yeah, we need to change that.
Speaker 3 (43:03):
Wait, who's the next? Well, third season?
Speaker 1 (43:05):
Tell us who wants to follow on Instagram next? Also,
you can become a patron at Patreon dot com slash
like a Virgin.
Speaker 2 (43:14):
And remember this is the last time for the season
where you will get us in the main feed.
Speaker 3 (43:19):
So we are taking a break. We will be right back,
but for now.
Speaker 2 (43:23):
We will continue to publish episodes on the Patreon, So
go subscribe over there at Patreon dot com slash like
a Virgin.
Speaker 1 (43:30):
And as always, thanks to producer Phoebe and you know
sho out for now, Yeah, for now and now a
clip from our Patreon. Become a patron at Patreon dot
(43:51):
com Slash Like a Virgin for weekly bonus episodes, and
more so. The seasons I've watched are Murder House, Asylum,
Freak Show. I watched half Hotel. I watched half of Roanoke.
I watched the first It's the season where they like
(44:13):
flip it halfway through and it turns out what you've
been watching is like a TV recreation of something that happened.
I watched the first couple episodes of Cult. I watched
the entirety of Apocalypse. I watched the entirety of nineteen
eighty four Oh my God, which nineteen eighty four is
actually pretty good because it's like very tight. I didn't
(44:36):
watch Double Feature, and I'm I'm currently watching Delicate, so
I've actually watched most of the show.
Speaker 2 (44:42):
Do you feel like Delicate? So I having not seen
all of the other series? Do you feel like Delicate
is kind of different from the rest of the franchise.
Speaker 1 (44:51):
It's smaller like the world because usually American horror story
has lots of competing storylines, and that's part of why
a lot of the seasons are flawed, is because the
ones that you're more interested in don't get as much
time or they drop them or like merge them in
weird ways. I like how tight delicate is focused on
(45:15):
this one character and her story, which I think has
maybe happened over the past couple of years, like probably
like in a lot of ways because of the budget,
like they can't spend as much on like all these actors.
Because even think about Delicate like it has I mean
obviously like having Kim Kardashian as a gag but it
doesn't have like the huge gaggy cast that previous seasons
(45:39):
no have had.
Speaker 2 (45:40):
Like Kim k is playing the same function as Gaga
in an Hotel. To me, it's just like gag casting.
Speaker 3 (45:49):
Sorry, not a great actress.
Speaker 1 (45:52):
I disagree.
Speaker 3 (45:53):
I'm sorry.
Speaker 2 (45:53):
I think that's I think she's so great. I think
that Gaga is better than Kim. Kay, But I do think.
Speaker 1 (45:58):
You haven't seen Hotel.
Speaker 2 (46:00):
I've seen a lot of clips of Hotel, okay. I
I think that Gaga's acting ability has significantly improved since Hotel,
like right, like like.
Speaker 1 (46:11):
I don't know, Okay, I think it's pretty much the same.
Speaker 2 (46:16):
She was basically playing the same character. I mean, no,
I okay, So more on Kim k. You think she's
eating I think she's eating. I mean, I do think
she's incredible. The thing is like, to me, obviously, when
Kim K's on screen, I'm not evaluating her acting like
that's not I was just saying that because like I
was trying to think about them playing the same function
and as like stunt casting in these series. But I'm
(46:36):
not evaluating Kim's acting like she's just and I think
that honestly, the flatness with which she delivers a lot
of her lines in a kardashian esque way works really
well for the affect of says. This is what Bubba says,
was sound like like it's kind of working.
Speaker 1 (46:52):
It's like, I the episode where they go to the
Gotham Awards and Emma Robert's vomits during her speech, and
then the next day she wakes up in her bed
in the morning and Kim is laying in bed next
to her under the covers with her face fully b
I just started cackling.
Speaker 3 (47:12):
It's so insane, mug stamps.
Speaker 1 (47:16):
It's so but she's so good, and like the way
she delivers the lines is so You're right, it is
incredibly flat, but it's really funny. It works, and yeah,
it works, like you're you're never not aware that this
is Kim Kardashian, but like it that works.
Speaker 3 (47:34):
And do you want to know? Do you want to
know a bit of a boma?
Speaker 2 (47:37):
The ending has been spoiled for me because I knew
someone who worked on.
Speaker 3 (47:41):
It, so I actually I think the ending knows.
Speaker 2 (47:45):
I won't spoil it for you, but I think the
ending is a gag, and I think the understanding Obviously
kim Ka is giving villain energy from Jump. I'm not
saying that she is like the Big Bad, but I
will say that a lot of the way is that
all these different things pull off in the way that
Kim k pulls into Like what is at stake here
(48:06):
in the show is really good? What do you think
is happening with her baby?
Speaker 3 (48:12):
Whatever? What are some fan theories that you might have?
Speaker 1 (48:15):
I don't. I'm well, I don't know about fan theories
because it's not like I feel like I'm not going.
It's not like I've been going and looking. I mean,
you know, the clearest, this is obviously very much modeling
itself after Rosemary's Baby. That's very much a big inspiration
for this. So my guess was knowing that you find
(48:38):
you find out in the first episode that Kim and
Emma met in a fertility group. So I think that possibly,
like this baby is being like a grown and harvested
for Kim, right, and Emma is the vessel.
Speaker 3 (48:52):
Okay, that's okay, Okay, love that, But I also.
Speaker 1 (48:56):
Don't know, because the thing is with American horror story,
they could start out with one intention and then halfway
through the season completely abandoned that and decide to do
something else. Like with Covin, they had no idea who
the Supreme was when they started the season, and there
are so many moments of fake outs where they like
(49:17):
try to hedge towards someone like Tessa Familia is clearly
supposed to be like the one who might be the
new Supreme in the beginning of the season, and then
by the end like it being Sarah Paulsen comes out
of totally left field.
Speaker 3 (49:30):
Right.
Speaker 1 (49:31):
So and also, you know we only are getting for now,
We're only getting part one of Delegate because that's all
that was filmed before the strike, right, so you know,
when they go back, they might decide to like change
the whole thing.
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