February 23, 2023 • 59 mins
- The girls are girling! An update from Fran's acting class, Rose's review of Gretchen Felker-Martin's Manhunt in the Book Corner and a mid-season Drag Race & The Last Of Us update
tag our finsta @likeavirgin42069
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
I'm the biepock mang Gender. Welcome to Like a Virgin
the show. Will we give Yesterday's pop culture, Today's takes.
My name's Rose. Damn you let me swallow my Hall's
lozenge real quick and let my co host introduce themselves.
(00:24):
Oh it's Rand Torondo. Um. Rose and I are reporting
to you live from our Um. We're merging from the sickness,
the sickness that sweeps the gay cough that sweeps our
our community. And every time to see the gay cough,
because I know straight people who have colds now too,
We're not We're not doing that. It's not it's not
(00:47):
specific to gay people. I'm also really hopeful that the
gay cough did like rise and then go extinct in
the summer of twenty twenty, which was truly nightmarish when
everybody caught that. Do you remember. Yeah, I also fully
caught this cold that I'm coming off of from my
straight relatives. So there's nothing gay about it. Could not
(01:09):
be could not be more, um more from the head
of aero patriarchy. Um, I'm coming off of having a
horrible cold, which honestly was most upsetting to me, not
only because I was sick, which I hate being sick.
But also I had so many cute plans this weekend.
I was supposed to go see Titanic and three D
(01:31):
on the big screen. Devastated now it's out of theaters. Um.
Howd a friend's birthday dinner to go to? And then
on Sunday, my friend was taking me to the ballet
and I had to miss it. No, what would you know?
What ballet? Was it? Sleeping Beauty at Lincoln. I'm Chakowski
is my face. It's the only thing I'll show up
(01:52):
to a ballet for. I'm devastated. I had had a
whole outfit planned. I was me fit, pick, let's go
to the Valet Rose. I think I still want to go.
I want to get tickets and go. Um even though,
but you know, this was free, so I was very
much looking forward to that. We love free. Oh I'm
(02:15):
still flemy. And then of course yesterday was the day
I was finally feeling better, and I had therapy this morning,
and I was like, you know what, I'm gonna go
to therapy. I'm gonna like get dressed up and wear
cute outfit and put makeup on and like be alive
for the first time in a week. And I woke
up this morning in like horrific neck pain because I
slept weird, and so I had to do therapy remotely.
(02:37):
So it's like I just can't win. My body is
falling apart. Oh no, oh god. Honestly, I'm like same
but different Mike. Mike hold is not as intense. It's
been like a loose cough this whole weekend that I
have tried to party my way through bad idea. I
did get COVID tested at the very least um, but
(02:58):
now last night I just like found myself getting sick.
And do you know what I have been doing with
my downtime over the last I guess, like I would say,
six five or six days now, I have a feeling
it involves reclining and watching a television show. It involves
(03:20):
rewatching Ugly Betty, which I hit play on season one,
episode one when I was in New York last weekend
and rose I have consumed now almost a complete three
seasons of Ugly Betty about to encroach on the fourth.
I am honestly I feel insane, Like no, what should
(03:41):
you should have feel insane? Because I it tis the
season to rewatch familiar TV. I'm neck deep in a
Buffy the Vampire Slayer rewatch and I started two and
a half weeks ago, perhaps who am now currently? I
(04:01):
just started season five and okay those are these are
twenty episode you know, forty five minute long. And I
mean to be fair, like I was sick this weekend.
I did not leave, as I said, I didn't leave
my apartment for days. I watched, um, you know, like
a season and a half over the course of three
(04:22):
days or less. Um. So I really have that. It's
so much And I haven't even been doing what I
used to do the last time I rewatched Buffy, which
was skip the episodes that I don't care for umiliar
(04:42):
with it. I really have been watching everything. Wow, Okay,
I honestly similarly, I was like, let's do it in
sequence all the way through. When was the last time
I did it? And honestly, this is like so fitting
because I ugly Betty is, as I've said on before,
like one of the most formative shows on the planet,
if not the most formative show of my life. And
(05:04):
I feel like Buffy is the most formative show of
your life. Um yeah, I like it's like such a
reward for Ugly Betty specifically, it's like such a rewarding
rewatch and like we'll do a full episode on it,
so like I won't get into it, but like it
is so amazing. It's such an amazing show, and it's
(05:24):
so deliciously problematic and exactly the time frame that it
came out. It's like a period piece. And also it's
a fantasy, like it is in a fantasy. It's it's
a yeah, it's a fantasy where in trans women look
like Rebecca Romaine. There are some trans women who look
like Rebecca Romaine, I know, I mean where they just
(05:46):
get to like emerge on the scene. It's like it's
a fantasy where trans women are cis women. Yes, yes,
that's what I but everyone calls them tranny and cheta. Yes,
we will be doing a Wee Betty episode. Very we
should do another Buffy app as well. Um yeah, I
mean I do think we covered it pretty you know, Um,
(06:09):
we we covered it pretty well. And we also did
our recent Sarah Michelle Geller sort of cruel intention but well,
never say never. But I have really been enjoying rewatching
it because I'm you know, over the year I haven't
done a proper all the way through Buffy rewatching probably
(06:30):
ten years UM. But I there are certain episodes that
I revisit, like the holiday episodes, like I always watched
the Thanksgiving episode of Thanksgiving, the Halloween episodes at Halloween,
the Christmas episode at Christmas UM, and then there are
a few other episodes that I've gone back and revisited
throughout the years. But this is the first time in
(06:52):
over a decade that I have truly gone through and
watched every episode in sequence, even the ones I don't
really care for. And it's interesting how I'm reacting to
it and like favoring plotlines and characters that I didn't
like as much the last go around, and like seeing
(07:15):
what it's like to interact with the show at the
place where I'm in my life now, and like how
it's different. You know, art media is ever changing, even
though it is you know, static. We we evolve and
the shows and pieces of art we love, I guess
evolve with us. Yeah, I mean, I when I'm watching
(07:38):
Ugly Betty for the first time post New York Magazine
media career, some of these plotlines, Girl, my jaw is
dropping because this show that was formative to me as
a teenager prophesied so many things that literally happened in
my life where I was Betty like, it's correct, crazy,
(08:01):
But wait, I want to know. When you were watching
Buffy you said some things you're watching, and now retroactively
you're like, I'm evaluating this different as an adult. Can
you give an example? Okay, So I was a diehard
Buffy Angel shipper the first time I watched Buffy, like
Buffy Angel fan fiction with some of the first fan
fiction I ever read, and watching it back again, I'm
(08:26):
now looking at it through the lens of like, why
is this old ass man hooking up with this teenage girl?
And like, obviously it's still emotional and powerful, but it's
just not doing it for me in the way that
it used to. And I'm at the point in season
five now when Spike is realizing that he is in
(08:48):
love with Buffy or at least attracted to her. And
I was never into the Spike and Buffy pairing quite
so much because I believed that she belonged with Angel.
And now that I'm watching it slowly unfold or like
organically and not looking at it like as something I've
already experienced. I like get it more and I'm kind
(09:10):
of like, wait, I'm kind of excited for them to
eventually become an item. Now are you saying here and
now on this podcast that you are team Spike, No,
because what I actually am is team Faith. Faith who
is the Slayer who went evil? There is so much
(09:32):
subtext there of her and Buffy having a vibey and
I remember, you know, I love that. I would love
to watch it one day. I I famously still have
not watched it all the way through, but I know
I will. It's it's it's honestly, the fact that I
got around to a Golden Girls watch is like proof
(09:54):
of concept enough that like I can do a Buffy watch, yes,
even though I mean the episodes are longer, I'm not.
It's it's definitely a bigger commitment. And Golden Girls you
can kind of like be on your phone during Buddy
It's a little harder to do that. But I have
(10:16):
to say, like, you know, fuck Jos Sweden and all,
but so much of the humor and the writing really
holds up. And I know that's not um solely because
of him, but you know, it's whatever death of the author. Um, yeah, please,
we can say the same thing about Ugly Betty, like
(10:37):
a show that is like astoundingly ahead of its time
and also like horribly horribly like something horrible to watch now. Yes,
you know, um, dear Virgins, you might you might have
cottoned on to the fact that we are taking our
taking our damn time today with little, our little chit
(10:58):
chat catchup moment. And that's because we are not going
to have a main discussion topic today. We didn't do
news last week, so we're going all in on, you know,
catching up. What's the goths, what's going on? So this
is just going to be like a true hangout key
(11:19):
key episode girls girling. This is a girls girling episode,
and we know that you do love those, so yeah,
So what's going on in your life? Girl? I know
you're about to make finally the big move. As of
time of record, I only have a week left in
Los Angeles. Feel um insane. I have not packed a
(11:42):
single I know. I'm looking behind you what you're a partner,
and I'm like, um, all of your stuff the walls.
I'm one of those girls that I don't like to
draw out, like tasks that I don't want to do Like,
I'm a girl that wants to do it all in
a consolidated time period about thirty six hours thirty six
to seventy two hours before. Oh that sounds super fun. Yeah,
(12:05):
I mean that's that's my stamina preference. I think it's
a better use of my time. But it is also
stressful sometimes. But you know, all things considered, I am
not very well rested. I was like up all last
night coughing and also thinking about a very bizarre interaction.
I had just a very bizarre experience I had yesterday.
(12:26):
That's like really fresh on my mind. Okay, I want
you to tell me, but first I do want you
to give you the chance to plug the fact that
you are casting off some of your possessions this weekend.
Oh my god, wait, I'm so glad that you said that. Okay,
dear Virgins, I am having an estate sale and a
goodbye soiree that almost everything must go okay in my apartment.
(12:50):
No Weirdosum, you can't get the address unless you know
you RSP. That information should be available on my Instagram
profile by the time this episode comes out. Thank you
for that, Rose, because I need cash. Not gonna lie
I'll get your transparent with all of you, and I
have nice things that you can come and pick up.
And also all patrons get a mimosa come on by. Okay, So,
(13:28):
so tell me about this weird interruption that you had
over the weekend. I dyed now, Okay, So I it's
crazy because I actually haven't talked to you that much
about this yet. But I enrolled in a recreational acting
class or what. We have discussed it a bit, but
(13:50):
not not at length. Yes, but I will say I
signed up to what I thought would be a recreational
acting class, is how I should say it. And honest,
this is going to be a little bit of like
a fran voicemail length story if you're willing to hear it.
But like I, I'm directing some of this year. I'm
(14:10):
trying to learn about acting because of that. Have you
ever taken acting class? Roos girl, I went to acting
school in college. I always forget about our ghost lives,
right of course. Okay, So acting's insane, yes, Like acting
is an insane thing to do with your life. And
(14:33):
I didn't realize that I couldn't just like come in
and be like, hey, I just want to learn about this. Like,
I'm like a respectful student that genuinely just wants to
learn about acting. I'm not trying to be an actor,
you know what. I see. The problem there is that
you're in Los Angeles, where, yeah, everyone is trying to
be an actor or at least get cast on a
reality dating show. Yes, okay, wait, you are hitting the
(14:57):
nail on the head about because Okay, so I signed
up for literally eight classes. I was like, let me
dip and dip out right before I leave to New York,
and if I like it, I can keep doing it
in New York whatever. Day one hour one of this class.
It is a three hour class. I hate this class.
(15:19):
Like the first hour. I hate this class. In my mind,
I'm hating the teacher. She is giving like really like
violent erratic energy, like really blunt, really kurt, like doesn't
say things that are like mighty to people, like just
speaks to everyone in a way that I'm just like,
(15:39):
I don't love this, like white woman, Yeah that's an
acting teacher. Yeah, that's an acting teacher exactly. And that
was kind of so our one. I was kind of
just like realizing things in real time about like what
acting is a world that I very naively knew nothing
about going into it. I don't have anything in common
with anyone in this class. It is a student body
(16:01):
like I can only really describe as like twenty or so,
like cis gender, nano influencers, and I feel like that
sounds right, yeah, yeah yeah, And I feel like I like,
I'm like, this class is going to be a colossal
waste of my time. Hour two of my first class,
I was like, wait, actually, like this teacher is like
(16:22):
really hard on them, and she's pushing them, and like
she's actually really smart, and like I'm kind of listening
to what she's saying, and I'm like the classes, I
should also say, the classes never really explain or described.
There's no introductions, Like it's not a class where like
you meet each other, you do like fun little games
and exercise ice breaker. Yeah, there's no fucking icebriggers. Yeah no,
that's not Yes, it's a cheap, cheap class and you
(16:43):
only get to participate in like five minutes per class whatever.
It's kind of crazy. Um. And so by hour three
of my first class, I'm just like, actually, this teacher
is iconic, and I think that I love you Yes,
I love her because she's a bitch, and I think
that I actually really even if I don't really agree
(17:06):
with how she's kind of treating the students. I fucked
with her, and I only need to be in eight classes,
so I'm just gonna be like invisible. You think it's fierce.
She's mother, Yes, she's kind of giving mother's yeah's mother, Okay, okay, okay.
So I'm going to say something else that's probably really
stupid to actors. So this class teaches Meisner the Meisner method, Right,
are you familiar at all? Somewhat? You might need to
(17:28):
refresh my memory on the specifics of it. To be honest,
if I were to try to get into it, it
would be so difficult to describe. It's like so annoying
and weird to describe. But all you need to know
is that it's a methodology of acting that's taught in
a lot of to reenacting schools. There are a few
different methods, and it's like next to like Stanislavski and
like method acting and like, yeah, Stanislavsky was more what
(17:48):
I fucked with when I was an actress. Wait, really
you were? You learned much like Gaga the Stanislavsky method. Yes,
my college acting professor was a devotee of Staroslavsky Waite.
I feel honestly ashamed that I actually don't know that
much about your era as an actress. That's that's on purpose, babe,
(18:12):
that is my designs. Like you also haven't seen a
lot of photos of me pre transition, you know, like
obviously this is all intentional. I've seen literally one that
you can centrally showed to me on this podcast. Um
one photo. Um okay, okay, okay, back to back to
let me. I'm trying to stay on track on the
friend voicemail on the friend voicemail here. Um. So this
(18:35):
class teaches Meisner from a truly cold outside perspective, someone
who knows nothing about acting or about Meisner. I have
to say, the vibe is immediately giving cult like immediately
like she is berating these kids, kids she doesn't know
at all. By the way, like a lot of these
students have, like me, have been in three or four classes.
(18:55):
Others have been there for like you know, a month
or two. Like there there are tears at which the
students have been in the class because it's on a
rolling basis. But she is like speaking to these kids
like they're her children and not necessarily yes, because she's
weather and it's and it's and honestly, it's just it's
it's crazy. So, uh, we have to do this exercising
(19:17):
class that's again really difficult to describe, so I'm not
going to get into it, but like the baseline is,
there is an extremely difficult kind of like technique to
learn that requires like a lot of mental brainwork and
it's almost like a little bit of a riddle UM.
And you do this like repetition exercise that is it's hard,
it's it's hard to do as a beginner. This is
a beginner level class and we're all learning UM, and
(19:40):
we have to perform these exercises, performing the kind of
like this like very specific rule UM of the Meisner
School of acting, and these little sketches in groups of
two or three at a time, like one after another.
So I've been at this in this point three or
four classes. I really have not experienced a ton. I
(20:02):
don't know any of my fellow students really, like like
we're all a lot of us are in this cold.
Yesterday I was an acting class and this woman was
on a death rampage like she was like, leave no prisoners,
(20:24):
scorched Earth, I want to kill everyone, and I'm in
today is the day that you all die? Like it
was so I'm not gonna lie. Riveting. It was riveting.
And and victim number one, so like there a few
exercises happened. They were going, Okay, Victim number one. A
girl gets into this exercise. She is not doing amazing
(20:48):
basically because she's not really following this like Meisner rule
that is drilled into us. At this point, she's repeating
this Meisner rule over and over to us. And this
girl is kind of just like that, you have to
repeat what the other person is saying to you. It's
it's it's kind of it's it's again, it's it's. So
it's hard to describe without me going into like no,
(21:09):
no it because yeah, like it's like about scene it's
like about scene work and like that. You're like listening
before you speak, but you're not but you're not really
supposed to. Yeah, you're listening and you're not really supposed
to improvise, right, you're not supposed to be conversational. You're
not asking questions, You're just really trying to repeat things
at each other until you catch an emotional pinch point.
It's so I sound I see I'm participating in the cult. Okay,
(21:34):
So this girl finishes the exercise, she kind of that
kind of just oh my god, I just said her name.
Will you believe that? Okay? Okay, So I just said
the teacher's name, and I have to say that this
woman has a very satisfying white woman. No, when you
said it, I was like, yep, that's her name. Um,
(21:54):
she kind of cuts you off. She decides when you're done.
The teacher says what says when you're done? And she
turns to the class and she goes, so, what was
wrong with this iconic? And she trains the kids to
to humiliate the students on stage in real time by
(22:15):
repeating the thing that everybody knows that this person on
stage doesn't know. Isn't that isn't that crazy? And she goes,
so this isn't working because she's not repeating blah blah
blah and all these ds like she's culturing and conditioning
the class to Brady. Yeah, acting is any kind of
acting school or theater school is psychological warfare? Yes, and
(22:38):
through the whole time this whole class, and honestly a
little bit in previous classes. She's really like specific about
pitting the kids against each other. She goes, she'll say, actually,
like yes exactly, so I'll get into that. But she
she goes, did you She turns to the girl and
she goes, did you rehearse? And she goes, no, I
haven't rehearsed. And she's like really big about rehearsal, and
she goes, you guys need to rehearse. You guys need
(23:00):
to rehearse or you're gonna show up and you're gonna suck.
You're gonna show up and you're gonna suck. And she
turns to the girl and she goes, she was like,
how do you think you did today? And she was
like the girl was like literally just trying to advocate
for herself, Like she's not being disrespectful, she's just kind
of like, you know, at our time, I think I
did okay, Like she's genuinely trying to analyze herself and goes, Okay,
(23:20):
well you sucked. I love her. She's victim number two
steps up here, and again not the same mistake, but
like a truly a truly honest mistake. And infraction on
like not understanding what the Meisner method is. And this
(23:42):
is a girl who is at the same experience level
as me, So the previous girl she's been in like
another month or class. This girl, like like me, has
only met Kathleen three times. I just said her name again.
This girl, much like mother, much like Brenda, has only
we've we've only met her. Oh wait, sorry, So this
(24:05):
girl has literally only met Kathleen like three or four times. Um,
I can't believe. I just said. I can't believe. I'm
so sleep deprived. So this girl literally has only met
my teacher, has only met mother three or four times.
She doesn't do the exercise right. She has watched other
(24:28):
students get chewed out. And she's doing this thing that
mister people hate, which is acting. She always says, like,
no acting up there. I don't want to see you
putting on a character. And she kind of puts on
a teeny bit of a character, just like a wink.
And this woman, this woman to shoots her in the head. Yes.
And this girl was like a teeny tiny little white
girl from Kansas City, Like she just stepped right off
(24:50):
the bus and she was here to like live her
dream like she believed in my will. But Kathleen, Kathleen, sorry,
I keep saying her name, And so mother turns the
class again and she's like, okay, so why was this weird?
This was weird right, like like cuts her. It's so bizarre.
She's like, so, why was this weird? Yeah, and she
(25:12):
turns to the girl and she goes, so what you
did it was fucking weird. And she goes okay, and
she's smiling receiving this feedback, like tears streaming down her eyes,
and she's just like, she's like okay, and this woman goes,
she goes, if you show up and you do that
at your job, it's like everyone's gonna be annoyed with you.
(25:35):
You will never work in this town if you show
up and do that. She's three class. She's so real
for that, and then she love her Yes, she says you,
she says, you're never gonna work in this town again.
And then she says, she goes, she goes, what you
did up there was annoying. You annoy me, and this
(25:58):
girl grinned and took it, and that this is the
point in the class. There was also another group of
victims where in like someone wasn't doing the exercise properly,
so that my teacher went for that person. She choose
them out. The other student throws the other student under
the bus. It's like it's like their carnivores. Like we're
just trying to survive out here. And I'm realizing, Rose,
(26:19):
in real time, that my teacher is lydiatar, and that
I am literally in real time experiencing the auditorium scene,
and I as a first time student, I am about
to get on stage after all of these students have
been chewed out, and I am a BIPOC fan gender
(26:44):
you said it, and so okay, look we're traumatized people.
I was in fighter flight mode. I was like actually
kind of wigging out because I was like, I Rose,
you know me, like I will grin and bear a
lot of things. I will not let someone disrespect me. No,
you you know, and even in a professional setting, I
(27:08):
will not tolerate any level of disrespect. And so when
if someone said to my face, you suck, I honestly
have no idea like what I would have done. It's
always kind of preparing myself for like what this woman,
what this teacher was going to do, to me and
you slayed. No, I didn't. I didn't slay. And what
(27:32):
I thought that was going to be the triumphant twist
of this story. Well, to be totally honest, like I
have actually been doing I feel a really great job
in the class for like what I wanted to accomplish.
I am taking this class, and this I think is
a good way to kind of polish it off. But
like I'm taking this class specifically because like I'm bad
at being in my body. I'm like really bad at
(27:52):
listening a lot of the time, and like I feel
like it's acting is like a really worthwhile skill set,
especially this method that would help me with a lot
of things that I want to learn how to do
in an outside of Hollywood. And so I'm they're just
like genuinely trying to learn, and she's up here being like,
you guys will never make your dreams. You're all gonna suck.
You all suck, and I'm just kind of like this
(28:13):
isn't my dream and I'm like perfectly fine with sucking.
Like that's kind of that was kind of the issue
that I was like going through my head, is like
I was like, I have no problem with you tell
me I suck. I'm not trying to be an actor,
you know what I mean, So, like your words don't
really affect me, but everyone else in that room is
trying to be an actor. Yes, And also no offense
to everyone else in this room. I don't care about
what any of these people think. So like, this woman
(28:35):
can try to humiliate me, but like she's not going
to And she tried it, she literally tried it, and
she started by coming for me by something that I
did that was not against the rules of the exercise,
but because she was on a rampage, she decided to
come for me, and so I was like, look, and
luckily the girl that was in the exercise with me
(28:56):
also advocated like for both of us, and we were
both kind of we were the only students the entire
class that ever stood up to her because she was
being crazy, like truly being crazy, but she was also
being iconic, and so it's like really hard it goes. Yeah,
(29:17):
But anyways, I know exactly who I am and I
know my self worth and I'm going to advocate for
that every time. So like what you say to me,
like has no bearing on what I do outside of
this class, because you don't know anything about that, And
I think that it was just weird to experience this
place where the stakes were very high for everyone else,
(29:37):
and I'm just like kind of a weird fly on
the wall slash, Like it feels like I'm in a documentary. Well,
I mean, good for you for telling mother to go
fund herself. You know, you never have to deal with
this again because you're literally moving across the country, But
you know, it is rough for people who legitimately want
(29:59):
to be act and the amount of torture you have
to put yourself through to do that. I remember there
was one scene study class that I was in in
college where we did this exercise where we would have
to run up and down the stairs of the building
five times and then come in and do our scene,
(30:20):
because the thought was that like getting to an extreme
level of physicality would bring out genuine emotion. And like,
of course, in the moment, you're telling yourself like, yeah,
that totally worked. That was amazing, But like that's not
something that's replicable when you're a working actor, which like
ostensibly is the goal of going to acting school. And
(30:42):
I think a lot of this and probably what you
experience is like a lot of teachers are able to
tell themselves that it's okay to be hard on their
students because of how cutthroat the business that they're going
into is. And a lot of them are failed actors themselves,
and they're thinking, like, well, if they can't handle this
(31:02):
in class, then it's better that they learned that now
before they go out into the world and try to
make it as actors. It is literally it's exactly what
like it reminded me of Tyr Banks in America's Next
Top Model, where she like choose, you choose if you,
as the teacher or arbiter of this space, are choosing
to just like just to like participate and to enforce
(31:25):
existing oppressive systems in your industry instead of actively wanting
to change them. Like it's just kind of bonkers. And
the reality is like to be an actor, all you
have to be is hot, Like it truly doesn't matter
how talented you are. Yes, yes, yes, yes, I completely
agree with that. And also just to as a side note,
you have to run up like ten flights of stairs
(31:46):
or whatever for like acting, like listen, that is a
method that only works if you went too like the
Matilda school of like musical theater where they make those
kids probably run like fifteen flights before every scene. Honey,
you know I do. I think it's interesting that you
(32:16):
are talking about this as a cult, because I've been
thinking a lot about cults over the past couple of days.
I watched this new Hulu documentary Stolen Youth. Have you
heard about it? No? I haven't so Stolen Youth as
a documentary about it's Stolen Youth, the cult inside the cult,
it's Sarah Lawrence. I totally didn't know that this ever happened,
(32:39):
but in like the early twenty tens, there was a
cult of kids who went to Sarah Lawrence. And it
was these kids who all lived together and like on
campus housing or off campus housing, I don't know um
and one of their dads had been in prison and
(33:01):
when he got out, came and stayed with them, which
is like why would you let it happen? And then
he basically like became a cult leader and a bunch
of them like moved into a one bedroom apartment in
the city with him, and there was like sex trafficking
and all this crazy shit. And you know, it's a
(33:23):
very interesting documentary. It's only three episodes, which is good
because I like, couldn't have done more, and it's I
I appreciate it because with something that's like true crime,
I need it to have like a definitive ending. Like
I hate a true crime thing where it's like the
(33:45):
mystery is still unsolved or like the killer is still
out yeah, or like you know, it's the trial hasn't
happened this like the trial happened very recently. This guy
is serving sixty years in prison with that parole. It's
like it's done. You know, people have gotten out of
the cult. There's one girlie who's still like she has
only just now disavowed him. But the thing that I
(34:09):
was thinking, which is what I always think when cult
stuff happens, is couldn't be me. He couldn't he could
have never gotten me. I would never have bought into
that ship. And honestly, I kind of judge them for
being susceptible to it because like this guy is so
he's like so clearly, like he's this like ugly like
(34:33):
doughey white guy who just like manipulated all these college
kids and like they were you know, they were adults,
they were they were like sophomores. In college. And I'm
not not to victim blame, but but but I'm victim blame.
But I just I watched this and I just like
(34:53):
truly don't get how you can be how you can like,
uh like be a sheep a sheep like that and
and let this person like the things that this guy
had them doing. Like obviously you know some of these
(35:13):
like there was one kid who, um, you know, was
like struggling with his sexuality and the guy like twisted
all of his ideas of like what it was to
be a man. And you know, um, I get that
people are vulnerable and could be manipulated, but I just
watched these cult things and I'm like, no, not me,
because like, if there's two things I'm always happy to do,
(35:36):
it's not listen to what people have to say and
just stay home. And you know, for the for those reasons,
I truly believe I could never be I could never
be hoodwinked into joining a fault. But on the flip side,
I do think I could very easily start a cult.
Oh I do that I could. I could really um,
I could manipulate. I could be a good cult leader
(35:58):
and manipulate people into like living or dying on my word. Well,
for the virgins, I think that that was implied. It's
just very interesting to like look at this. I'm able
to like watch these things from such a such a
distance and like find it interesting and just fully not
understand what could lead someone to think that that was normal. Yeah,
(36:21):
I just yeah, I just really get it. I just
really don't get it. It's like being a turf, you know,
I don't. I don't get so you can like devote
your whole life to something that is like so lame
and like unimportant and like just like go touch grass.
It's wretched and it's also like not even about you
like you are. That's the thing about cults. I honestly
(36:44):
I empathize. I also feel like I can be I
can feel judgmental about people that are highly susceptible, but
I'm also a people pleaser. Like I feel like I
am highly susceptible, and I don't know, It's it's tough.
Sometimes this is a grey area. Yeah, um, I do
want to take a little trip into Rose's book corner. Yes,
(37:06):
we need like we need like some theme music or
something for Rose's book Corner. We need like a kind
of reading rainbow ass like theme music kind of momentum So,
as any of you who have been falling along with
Rose's book club no m our. First, like foray into
this was reading man Hunt by Gretchen Felker Martin. Um
(37:28):
I just finished it about a week ago. It took
me a little bit to get into it, but then
once I was about halfway through, I really powered through
the end and read it in like a like a
day or two. Um. So, the novel is a post
apocalyptic zombie horror story in which a virus called t
(37:49):
Rex has decimated the world's population. It's a zombie virus
that specifically targets testosterone, so it turns anyone with you know,
an abundance of testosterone in their body largely sis men
into these you know, like very animalistic, super disgusting zombies
(38:10):
who in like a somewhat like different take on zombies
not only like eat and kill people, but rape people.
And so that was like a you know, disturbing edition
and like for anyone who hasn't yet read this book,
like some serious trigger warnings about sexual salt, transphobia, like
(38:33):
lots of different stuff, but you can you know, investigate
that on your own and so the survivors in the
zombie apocalypse are women and m sis women trans women,
and that is really the divide of this novel. So
there's um. The two real main characters are these two
(38:56):
trans girls, Beth and Fran, and they and it's such
a good One of them is named Fran. Her name
is Fran fine like the Nannie. Yeah name, I love that, Okay,
but it's never really like talked about, but it just
that's her name, and I think that's funny. So so
they um then and then when the novel starts, they
(39:18):
are so they they they call themselves man hunters. They
go around um hunting down zombie men to extract their
testicles because they're the only source of estrogen in this
post apocalyptic world. They are friends with the doctor who
extracts estrogen from the testicles and um like sells it
(39:42):
to women like older women with pcos um. And the
premise is so it's really fascinating because, like you know,
as we've been talking about with like the Last of
Us all zombie media, UM looks at the way the
world old reforms after it falls apart, and so to
(40:03):
look at through the lens of transness, and gender is
really fascinating. And so these these women are like out hunting,
they come across this roving band of turfs. So turfs
have now banded together to form this thing called the Matriarchy,
and they are like a militant organization who you know,
(40:27):
go around like killing trans women, and they've taken over
different cities. And then also like in their travels, they
pick up a trans man who has been living on
his own, like living on the land, and he's very
like he he like is really like gun savvy, and
he doesn't want to go with them because he has
(40:48):
some like bad experiences in his past, but he ends
up joining them. They and their doctor friend eventually become
part of this commune that's run by this like this
little billionaire girl. There's also another character who is a
POV who is part of the matriarchy, but she is
(41:08):
a chaser and is like in love with this non
binary sex worker. And so it's like just all these
different viewpoints into what this world looks like and the
thing most about but I felt while reading this, and
I brought this up a couple other times talking about
novels written about or by trans people is like reading
(41:32):
this gave me this feeling like I would love to
only read novels written by trans people, because I only
want to read trans characters who are written by trans people,
Because there's just something that SIS people don't get. There.
There are ways of thinking that SIS people just don't
think about the ways in which we talk to each other,
(41:56):
the ways in which we think about ourselves, how mean
we can be about each other, Like you know, like
the it's there. There are some ridiculous moments where like
we're in the we're in the apoc like post apocalyptic world,
zombie world, and people are still worried about like how
(42:16):
how much they pass, which is how it would work.
How like how fem they are compared to other trans
women still like calling each other bricks. Um. It's it's
just it's so scary, but it feels so possible, which
is I think the best. Um, the best like the
(42:38):
when when dystopian fiction is at its best is when
you can see how it would happen. Um. And I
also love that like within the kind of thematic question
of this book that you're laying out, like a lot
of the things you're talking about, like these kind of
trans two point zero three point zero conversations or ways
of thinking to then be met it on the rest
(43:00):
of the world, because it's now become a biological impart,
Like it's become a cultural disaster that now requires the
help of trans women, and you still like now you're
forced to wrap your head around this in some way
or to think about it. Yeah, and then and you
see the way that sis people who like would consider
(43:20):
themselves allies, how they would behave in the apocalypse. Like
one of the one of the main characters, you know,
has flashbacks too. When the virus first broke out, she
lived in this like queer commune house and the trans
women like eventually were kicked out of it, even and
you know, all of the people in the house were
(43:42):
like you know, play acted being like devastated about it,
and like we're you know, chiding them for their like
problematic reaction to it. And it's it's just like a
new take on what the world looks like when it
falls apart from a specifically not just queer perspective, but
(44:03):
trans perspective, and like they're just it's also extremely funny. Um,
you know, at one point they go into this like um,
you know, like trans lesbian um like camp and it's
like the one thing that survives the apocalypse is Dike drama,
which is so funny. Um it is such a Oh. Also, um,
(44:30):
at the end of the novel, there's this whole um
plot point of this um like ruined naval ship that
the Turfs reclaim and they rename it the gall Braith,
which is anyone who doesn't know is jk Rowling's pseudonym.
Pen names so fucking funny. So you also you also
(44:51):
do find out what happened to JK Rowling in the
Apocalypse and it's it's like delicious Okay, no spoilers, Okay, spoilers. Um,
let's just say her money could not protect her. And
it is really sad, moving, grotesque, hilarious, and I'm so
(45:14):
excited to see, um, you know, more work from the author.
And it just really invigorated me about, you know, the
future of specifically trans fiction and trans art, because it
just shows what can happen when we're allowed to tell
our own stories to each other and not worry about
(45:39):
you know, like the CIS gays or the CIS audience
or the CIS gay Yeah, yeah, exactly, And yeah, I
would love to hear what virgins, what you thought of it,
if you read it, if you decide to read it
after this slide into our DMS and let us know. So, wait,
sounds like a great book. We I feel like we
should have some sort of like um evaluation for Rosa's
(46:02):
book quarter How many out of five roses? How many
roses does it? Oh? Out of five roses? I would
get Well, I did rate it five stars on good Reads,
five out of five. But but that was like also
because I know that this author has been review bombs,
so I wanted to do my part in like getting
it up there. Um, I would say, if we're grading
(46:22):
it on the like a virgin Rosa's book corner spectrum,
I'm gonna say, um, eight point five out of ten roses. Oh,
we're doing out of ten? That gives you quite a scale. Yeah, Okay,
I think that's important. Okay, good love eight point five,
So it's a B plus. Maybe it's a it's an
an okay an an. Yeah. I I sounded like it
(46:45):
sounded like a knock out of the park. It sounds fine. Yeah,
it is fascinating. Maybe I'll learn to read one day.
And I do think I do think I have the
next book. Oh look it's right over right over your shoulder,
right there behind me a little. And so this so
I wanted to do something that is like that is
not new and is and I still want to stick
(47:06):
with queer literature, but um, a little a different side
of the spectrum. So this is finger Smith by Sarah Waters.
Sarah Waters is an iconic lesbian novelist. Her novel Tipping
the Velvet is one of my favorite books, possibly possibly
my favorite book. What, um, you always I've ever your
(47:29):
favorite book ever? Yeah? Wow? Um, but I've never read Fingersmith.
It has been adapted into a miniseries. It was also
adapted into the film The Handmaiden, which which I've never seen.
Um wait but you've never really I've never seen The Handmaiden,
but I've heard really good things about it. But apparently
the novel is very different. Um. So I started reading it,
(47:52):
um a couple days ago, and I'm not that far
in so again, like as as we did with Manhunt,
like maybe a month from now, we'll check in and
do you know my thoughts in Rose's book Corner? Um,
I honestly was trying to pinpoint where i'd heard Fingersmith
before Handmaid. The Handmaid is like one of my favorite
(48:15):
gay movies of all time period. Rose, you and I
should watch it together, we should do a virtue. Okay,
well that's well, I'll definitely watch it after I read. Yeah,
of course. And I think that'll be a really nice
way for us to talk about it in the next
installment of Rose's book Corner, because you'll be able to
speak about the adaptation, and like I'll be able to
give sort of like a counterpoint of the of the
(48:36):
knowledge and maybe I'll read it. Who knows? Do you
want to know something? And this, actually I'm realizing in
real time. I used to be a voracious reader. You
know this in college before I had an iPhone, Like
books where my only friends and so I used to
read all the fucking time. Do you know what killed
my love of reading? One? Entering the workforce will really
(48:58):
kill the imagination, really kill your spare time. Two. I
worked at random House for a year. And when you
work at a book publishing company, books are garbage. Books
are garbage you used to wipe your ass with. And
every single floor, no seriously, and every single floor of
the publishing company it has multiple bookshelves filled with free
(49:20):
books that I would just like, in my spare time,
wander around and collect all of these books, being like
I'm going to read these someday and like just slowly
devaluing the thing that I love most in the world,
which is books. Um. Anyways, that was Rosa's book corner
(49:52):
before we log off. I guess, do we want to
do a Drag Race mid season check in because we
are now we have crossed the halfway. Yeah. So I
am really liking this season. I think it's kind of
the best crop of girls we've had in a couple
of seasons of main Drag Race. I think after the
first four four we're cut out I agree, yes, um
(50:15):
and really bringing the interpersonal drama, which I love. Um,
which is why I wish we were getting the ninety
minute episodes and that they just like feel it feels
like we're not getting enough of the stuff that we want. Um.
And then but and you know, um, MTV recently announced
that in March, ninety minute episodes are returning, but by
(50:36):
that time, there's gonna be like none of them left. Yeah. Um,
at least that means more Sasha Colby lip syncing, Like
that's all I really want this. The the Lala Perusa
episode was thrilling. Um you know some some front runners
really have emerged for me. I obviously like still love
Sasha Colby and um A Nietra was one of my
(50:58):
early faves. I am a mistress stand first and an
American scand period period period. She's so good. What she
does is drag like drag in the most in the
most classic sense. She is old school Southern painted but
(51:21):
painted for the gods will fucking shade you until you
jump off a building. Drag queen. And I love it.
And I honestly think it's the first time that like
a plus sized girl who coming from that drag perspective,
Like truly I think she could win. Yeah, I I
it would be really it has actually been a while
(51:43):
since we had something of and I'm trying to I'm
going through the winners in my brain like something of
an old school queen, right like, like I'm thinking about
like someone like Beyond adel Rio or something like that.
Like it's it's like classic like clown paint like drag.
Sasha Colby also does a version of like classic drag,
but hers is like Toagin style, right like it's it's different,
(52:07):
like Mistress is captivating I think in the art and
also like I don't remember if this was in Untucked
or in one of like the debriefs, but like, I
love her story. I love that she's literally never had
another job and that she had drag as survival to
like this is all she could do to like not
be homeless. Like it painted a picture of her more
(52:29):
clearly and showed us. I think, what's at stake for
a competitor like her versus what's at stake for other competitors,
Not that it makes the other competitors, you know, like
not worthwhile, but like she's just it's different for her.
Drag is life for her, Drag is life. Is there
anyone else who you've who has emerged as someone you're
(52:52):
into or um? My Top four remains the same, Anietra, Sasha, Mistress,
and Spice. I love Spice, Spice has gotta go. I
need Spice like I need Derek Barry. I need this
(53:13):
woman on screen as much as possible after your a
certain point, like she really showed her ask this episode,
even though I will say her lip sync with Malaysia
was the second one. Yeah, I think Spice one. I
think Spice eight. I think Spice ate her up honestly
a little bit, But it was so long ago, I'm
(53:33):
trying to remember the nuances of the actual lip syncs.
Like obviously Nietra was the standout, you know, that was
that was the moment that was one of the best
lip syncs in Drag Race her story. I totally agree,
Like it's something that you would revisit, something that will
like click back on and rewatch, Like it's so thrilling
(53:55):
to watch Sasha perform, especially on TV now. God, I mean,
can't even say more. And to watch a Niittra perform
a Nietra just had this. She has this um like
fluidity and grace to her um and you can definitely
see like she's so Vegas, like she's such a show
girl and that and so is Sasha, And like I
(54:18):
love seeing that kind of drag be praised on this platform.
And I'm just very excited by this cast after like
I don't know, a couple of seasons of like sure
having a few standouts here and there, but I think
this is a very solid cast all the way through.
They have good drama, and the challenges have been really
(54:40):
good and um yeah, I'm I'm enjoying the ride. We'll
see how we feel after we watch I don't know,
two more months of two more two or three more
months of this? Yeah okay? Um another midseason check in
the Last of Us. Did you watch? Did you watch
Sunday Yesterday's episode or Sunday's episode? I did? Um. It
was so happy to see Routina West from True Blood
(55:02):
back on HBO because my girl Tara stand for Life,
which which character was that she was his brother's wife,
the one who was pregnant. Oh okay, who gave Ellie
the Diva cup? That was I love. I loved moments
like that. That was so funny. Um. I love the
(55:23):
heart that the show continues to build, like, I love
their relationship. Um. Yes, And I liked that there was
a little bit of the passage of time because I
think we needed that. I think we needed them like
further solidified into their dynamic, especially after what happened at
the end of last week's episode, which was so traumatic,
(55:44):
you know, like traumatic and jarring, and you know, I
think it was really cool to see. I mean, Pedro
Pascale is such an incredible actor, and that scene where
he broke down and like finally kind of confessed that
he really cares about this person and like and doesn't
(56:05):
want to fail her. And the parallels of her and
his daughter is really heart wrenching. And you know this,
you know, if you watch the inside the episodes that
Atrio does after the episodes, like they talk a lot
about how this show is ultimately about the ways in
which the different ways in which love destroys people, and
(56:27):
I think this was like such every episode is a
great example of that, but this one was, you know,
so fascinating on the writing and the acting level. That
like scene with Pedro Pascal like is just it's so
I'm always in awe of like actors who portray, for
lack of a better word, like emotionally stunted people because
(56:50):
to act emotion like through this like huge wall that
this character has built up, it's like, yeah, you just
like have to watch every second of it. It's so
so fun to watch. Patrovisk is about to become so
much more famous, Like he is going to be booked
and busy. Also, the guy who plays his brother is
so hot and so hot to see them kiss. Oh
(57:13):
you know what. My favorite moment from the most recent
episode after they have their huge argument, which is like,
to me, that was the moment that stuck out to
me as like where they're just like they're crying and
screaming at each other or whatever, and he you know,
shows up the next morning and he's like, listen, you
can make a choice, and she just cuts him off
and she's like, okay, let's go. So fucking good like
(57:37):
it was, I laughed out loud. It's so satisfying, a
great writing, great storytelling. I also loved the scene where
he goes back to the house they're staying at and
I guess that scene is directed is I guess that
scene is lifted directly from the game, and they were
incredibly faithful to it. But I especially love that it's
(57:59):
taking place in this house, in this you know, bedroom
of a teenager who probably died twenty years ago, and
it like mirrors um a fight between a father and
a daughter, but it's like they're this different version of that,
and it's just fantastic storytelling. It's so good. And I
(58:21):
just like, Pedro Pascual, sit on my face, Sit on
my face. After this gift was shared with a huge ass,
Oh my god, little little booty bump. I haven't even
watched the interview, so I don't know the context of
the booty bue, but like damn that it doesn't matter.
Context doesn't matter. And I also didn't realize I can't
(58:41):
remember which podcast clue me into this. Um oh it
was Last Culture. Um, I didn't know that Pedro was
the buy one from Game of Thrones. You didn't know
I watched Game of Thrones in like a in a
haze Lucid dreamstay yeah, yeah, yeah, Um that's crazy. Elavender Hayes.
(59:03):
Oh God, I shouldn't have brought her up. How dare
you so? Um? Catch up with us on Like a
Virgin four twenty sixty nine. Tell us, um, what what
you know? What you're into right now? Let us know
(59:24):
what you thought of any of the things we talked about.
Your thoughts about man Hunt, if you're going to read Fingersmith,
your thought about the Meisner acting method? Honey, yeah, have
you ever taken do you have any acting class horror stories? Um?
Please slide into our dms and share. We we love
it when you do that. Um. I'm your co host,
Rose damn you. You can find me anywhere online at
(59:45):
Rose Damn you and I'm fran Toado. You can find
me at Franz Squishco anywhere you want. Please make sure
to rate us on Spotify and review us on Apple Podcasts.
It helps us out so much. Like a Virgin is
an iHeartRadio production. Our producer is Phoebe Enter, with support
from Lindsay Hoffman and Nikki Iatore. Until next week by
(01:00:07):
me Avoi
I'm the biepock mang Gender. Welcome to Like a Virgin
the show. Will we give Yesterday's pop culture, Today's takes.
My name's Rose. Damn you let me swallow my Hall's
lozenge real quick and let my co host introduce themselves.
(00:24):
Oh it's Rand Torondo. Um. Rose and I are reporting
to you live from our Um. We're merging from the sickness,
the sickness that sweeps the gay cough that sweeps our
our community. And every time to see the gay cough,
because I know straight people who have colds now too,
We're not We're not doing that. It's not it's not
(00:47):
specific to gay people. I'm also really hopeful that the
gay cough did like rise and then go extinct in
the summer of twenty twenty, which was truly nightmarish when
everybody caught that. Do you remember. Yeah, I also fully
caught this cold that I'm coming off of from my
straight relatives. So there's nothing gay about it. Could not
(01:09):
be could not be more, um more from the head
of aero patriarchy. Um, I'm coming off of having a
horrible cold, which honestly was most upsetting to me, not
only because I was sick, which I hate being sick.
But also I had so many cute plans this weekend.
I was supposed to go see Titanic and three D
(01:31):
on the big screen. Devastated now it's out of theaters. Um.
Howd a friend's birthday dinner to go to? And then
on Sunday, my friend was taking me to the ballet
and I had to miss it. No, what would you know?
What ballet? Was it? Sleeping Beauty at Lincoln. I'm Chakowski
is my face. It's the only thing I'll show up
(01:52):
to a ballet for. I'm devastated. I had had a
whole outfit planned. I was me fit, pick, let's go
to the Valet Rose. I think I still want to go.
I want to get tickets and go. Um even though,
but you know, this was free, so I was very
much looking forward to that. We love free. Oh I'm
(02:15):
still flemy. And then of course yesterday was the day
I was finally feeling better, and I had therapy this morning,
and I was like, you know what, I'm gonna go
to therapy. I'm gonna like get dressed up and wear
cute outfit and put makeup on and like be alive
for the first time in a week. And I woke
up this morning in like horrific neck pain because I
slept weird, and so I had to do therapy remotely.
(02:37):
So it's like I just can't win. My body is
falling apart. Oh no, oh god. Honestly, I'm like same
but different Mike. Mike hold is not as intense. It's
been like a loose cough this whole weekend that I
have tried to party my way through bad idea. I
did get COVID tested at the very least um, but
(02:58):
now last night I just like found myself getting sick.
And do you know what I have been doing with
my downtime over the last I guess, like I would say,
six five or six days now, I have a feeling
it involves reclining and watching a television show. It involves
(03:20):
rewatching Ugly Betty, which I hit play on season one,
episode one when I was in New York last weekend
and rose I have consumed now almost a complete three
seasons of Ugly Betty about to encroach on the fourth.
I am honestly I feel insane, Like no, what should
(03:41):
you should have feel insane? Because I it tis the
season to rewatch familiar TV. I'm neck deep in a
Buffy the Vampire Slayer rewatch and I started two and
a half weeks ago, perhaps who am now currently? I
(04:01):
just started season five and okay those are these are
twenty episode you know, forty five minute long. And I
mean to be fair, like I was sick this weekend.
I did not leave, as I said, I didn't leave
my apartment for days. I watched, um, you know, like
a season and a half over the course of three
(04:22):
days or less. Um. So I really have that. It's
so much And I haven't even been doing what I
used to do the last time I rewatched Buffy, which
was skip the episodes that I don't care for umiliar
(04:42):
with it. I really have been watching everything. Wow, Okay,
I honestly similarly, I was like, let's do it in
sequence all the way through. When was the last time
I did it? And honestly, this is like so fitting
because I ugly Betty is, as I've said on before,
like one of the most formative shows on the planet,
if not the most formative show of my life. And
(05:04):
I feel like Buffy is the most formative show of
your life. Um yeah, I like it's like such a
reward for Ugly Betty specifically, it's like such a rewarding
rewatch and like we'll do a full episode on it,
so like I won't get into it, but like it
is so amazing. It's such an amazing show, and it's
(05:24):
so deliciously problematic and exactly the time frame that it
came out. It's like a period piece. And also it's
a fantasy, like it is in a fantasy. It's it's
a yeah, it's a fantasy where in trans women look
like Rebecca Romaine. There are some trans women who look
like Rebecca Romaine, I know, I mean where they just
(05:46):
get to like emerge on the scene. It's like it's
a fantasy where trans women are cis women. Yes, yes,
that's what I but everyone calls them tranny and cheta. Yes,
we will be doing a Wee Betty episode. Very we
should do another Buffy app as well. Um yeah, I
mean I do think we covered it pretty you know, Um,
(06:09):
we we covered it pretty well. And we also did
our recent Sarah Michelle Geller sort of cruel intention but well,
never say never. But I have really been enjoying rewatching
it because I'm you know, over the year I haven't
done a proper all the way through Buffy rewatching probably
(06:30):
ten years UM. But I there are certain episodes that
I revisit, like the holiday episodes, like I always watched
the Thanksgiving episode of Thanksgiving, the Halloween episodes at Halloween,
the Christmas episode at Christmas UM, and then there are
a few other episodes that I've gone back and revisited
throughout the years. But this is the first time in
(06:52):
over a decade that I have truly gone through and
watched every episode in sequence, even the ones I don't
really care for. And it's interesting how I'm reacting to
it and like favoring plotlines and characters that I didn't
like as much the last go around, and like seeing
(07:15):
what it's like to interact with the show at the
place where I'm in my life now, and like how
it's different. You know, art media is ever changing, even
though it is you know, static. We we evolve and
the shows and pieces of art we love, I guess
evolve with us. Yeah, I mean, I when I'm watching
(07:38):
Ugly Betty for the first time post New York Magazine
media career, some of these plotlines, Girl, my jaw is
dropping because this show that was formative to me as
a teenager prophesied so many things that literally happened in
my life where I was Betty like, it's correct, crazy,
(08:01):
But wait, I want to know. When you were watching
Buffy you said some things you're watching, and now retroactively
you're like, I'm evaluating this different as an adult. Can
you give an example? Okay, So I was a diehard
Buffy Angel shipper the first time I watched Buffy, like
Buffy Angel fan fiction with some of the first fan
fiction I ever read, and watching it back again, I'm
(08:26):
now looking at it through the lens of like, why
is this old ass man hooking up with this teenage girl?
And like, obviously it's still emotional and powerful, but it's
just not doing it for me in the way that
it used to. And I'm at the point in season
five now when Spike is realizing that he is in
(08:48):
love with Buffy or at least attracted to her. And
I was never into the Spike and Buffy pairing quite
so much because I believed that she belonged with Angel.
And now that I'm watching it slowly unfold or like
organically and not looking at it like as something I've
already experienced. I like get it more and I'm kind
(09:10):
of like, wait, I'm kind of excited for them to
eventually become an item. Now are you saying here and
now on this podcast that you are team Spike, No,
because what I actually am is team Faith. Faith who
is the Slayer who went evil? There is so much
(09:32):
subtext there of her and Buffy having a vibey and
I remember, you know, I love that. I would love
to watch it one day. I I famously still have
not watched it all the way through, but I know
I will. It's it's it's honestly, the fact that I
got around to a Golden Girls watch is like proof
(09:54):
of concept enough that like I can do a Buffy watch, yes,
even though I mean the episodes are longer, I'm not.
It's it's definitely a bigger commitment. And Golden Girls you
can kind of like be on your phone during Buddy
It's a little harder to do that. But I have
(10:16):
to say, like, you know, fuck Jos Sweden and all,
but so much of the humor and the writing really
holds up. And I know that's not um solely because
of him, but you know, it's whatever death of the author. Um, yeah, please,
we can say the same thing about Ugly Betty, like
(10:37):
a show that is like astoundingly ahead of its time
and also like horribly horribly like something horrible to watch now. Yes,
you know, um, dear Virgins, you might you might have
cottoned on to the fact that we are taking our
taking our damn time today with little, our little chit
(10:58):
chat catchup moment. And that's because we are not going
to have a main discussion topic today. We didn't do
news last week, so we're going all in on, you know,
catching up. What's the goths, what's going on? So this
is just going to be like a true hangout key
(11:19):
key episode girls girling. This is a girls girling episode,
and we know that you do love those, so yeah,
So what's going on in your life? Girl? I know
you're about to make finally the big move. As of
time of record, I only have a week left in
Los Angeles. Feel um insane. I have not packed a
(11:42):
single I know. I'm looking behind you what you're a partner,
and I'm like, um, all of your stuff the walls.
I'm one of those girls that I don't like to
draw out, like tasks that I don't want to do Like,
I'm a girl that wants to do it all in
a consolidated time period about thirty six hours thirty six
to seventy two hours before. Oh that sounds super fun. Yeah,
(12:05):
I mean that's that's my stamina preference. I think it's
a better use of my time. But it is also
stressful sometimes. But you know, all things considered, I am
not very well rested. I was like up all last
night coughing and also thinking about a very bizarre interaction.
I had just a very bizarre experience I had yesterday.
(12:26):
That's like really fresh on my mind. Okay, I want
you to tell me, but first I do want you
to give you the chance to plug the fact that
you are casting off some of your possessions this weekend.
Oh my god, wait, I'm so glad that you said that. Okay,
dear Virgins, I am having an estate sale and a
goodbye soiree that almost everything must go okay in my apartment.
(12:50):
No Weirdosum, you can't get the address unless you know
you RSP. That information should be available on my Instagram
profile by the time this episode comes out. Thank you
for that, Rose, because I need cash. Not gonna lie
I'll get your transparent with all of you, and I
have nice things that you can come and pick up.
And also all patrons get a mimosa come on by. Okay, So,
(13:28):
so tell me about this weird interruption that you had
over the weekend. I dyed now, Okay, So I it's
crazy because I actually haven't talked to you that much
about this yet. But I enrolled in a recreational acting
class or what. We have discussed it a bit, but
(13:50):
not not at length. Yes, but I will say I
signed up to what I thought would be a recreational
acting class, is how I should say it. And honest,
this is going to be a little bit of like
a fran voicemail length story if you're willing to hear it.
But like I, I'm directing some of this year. I'm
(14:10):
trying to learn about acting because of that. Have you
ever taken acting class? Roos girl, I went to acting
school in college. I always forget about our ghost lives,
right of course. Okay, So acting's insane, yes, Like acting
is an insane thing to do with your life. And
(14:33):
I didn't realize that I couldn't just like come in
and be like, hey, I just want to learn about this. Like,
I'm like a respectful student that genuinely just wants to
learn about acting. I'm not trying to be an actor,
you know what. I see. The problem there is that
you're in Los Angeles, where, yeah, everyone is trying to
be an actor or at least get cast on a
reality dating show. Yes, okay, wait, you are hitting the
(14:57):
nail on the head about because Okay, so I signed
up for literally eight classes. I was like, let me
dip and dip out right before I leave to New York,
and if I like it, I can keep doing it
in New York whatever. Day one hour one of this class.
It is a three hour class. I hate this class.
(15:19):
Like the first hour. I hate this class. In my mind,
I'm hating the teacher. She is giving like really like
violent erratic energy, like really blunt, really kurt, like doesn't
say things that are like mighty to people, like just
speaks to everyone in a way that I'm just like,
(15:39):
I don't love this, like white woman, Yeah that's an
acting teacher. Yeah, that's an acting teacher exactly. And that
was kind of so our one. I was kind of
just like realizing things in real time about like what
acting is a world that I very naively knew nothing
about going into it. I don't have anything in common
with anyone in this class. It is a student body
(16:01):
like I can only really describe as like twenty or so,
like cis gender, nano influencers, and I feel like that
sounds right, yeah, yeah yeah, And I feel like I like,
I'm like, this class is going to be a colossal
waste of my time. Hour two of my first class,
I was like, wait, actually, like this teacher is like
(16:22):
really hard on them, and she's pushing them, and like
she's actually really smart, and like I'm kind of listening
to what she's saying, and I'm like the classes, I
should also say, the classes never really explain or described.
There's no introductions, Like it's not a class where like
you meet each other, you do like fun little games
and exercise ice breaker. Yeah, there's no fucking icebriggers. Yeah no,
that's not Yes, it's a cheap, cheap class and you
(16:43):
only get to participate in like five minutes per class whatever.
It's kind of crazy. Um. And so by hour three
of my first class, I'm just like, actually, this teacher
is iconic, and I think that I love you Yes,
I love her because she's a bitch, and I think
that I actually really even if I don't really agree
(17:06):
with how she's kind of treating the students. I fucked
with her, and I only need to be in eight classes,
so I'm just gonna be like invisible. You think it's fierce.
She's mother, Yes, she's kind of giving mother's yeah's mother, Okay, okay, okay.
So I'm going to say something else that's probably really
stupid to actors. So this class teaches Meisner the Meisner method, Right,
are you familiar at all? Somewhat? You might need to
(17:28):
refresh my memory on the specifics of it. To be honest,
if I were to try to get into it, it
would be so difficult to describe. It's like so annoying
and weird to describe. But all you need to know
is that it's a methodology of acting that's taught in
a lot of to reenacting schools. There are a few
different methods, and it's like next to like Stanislavski and
like method acting and like, yeah, Stanislavsky was more what
(17:48):
I fucked with when I was an actress. Wait, really
you were? You learned much like Gaga the Stanislavsky method. Yes,
my college acting professor was a devotee of Staroslavsky Waite.
I feel honestly ashamed that I actually don't know that
much about your era as an actress. That's that's on purpose, babe,
(18:12):
that is my designs. Like you also haven't seen a
lot of photos of me pre transition, you know, like
obviously this is all intentional. I've seen literally one that
you can centrally showed to me on this podcast. Um
one photo. Um okay, okay, okay, back to back to
let me. I'm trying to stay on track on the
friend voicemail on the friend voicemail here. Um. So this
(18:35):
class teaches Meisner from a truly cold outside perspective, someone
who knows nothing about acting or about Meisner. I have
to say, the vibe is immediately giving cult like immediately
like she is berating these kids, kids she doesn't know
at all. By the way, like a lot of these
students have, like me, have been in three or four classes.
(18:55):
Others have been there for like you know, a month
or two. Like there there are tears at which the
students have been in the class because it's on a
rolling basis. But she is like speaking to these kids
like they're her children and not necessarily yes, because she's
weather and it's and it's and honestly, it's just it's
it's crazy. So, uh, we have to do this exercising
(19:17):
class that's again really difficult to describe, so I'm not
going to get into it, but like the baseline is,
there is an extremely difficult kind of like technique to
learn that requires like a lot of mental brainwork and
it's almost like a little bit of a riddle UM.
And you do this like repetition exercise that is it's hard,
it's it's hard to do as a beginner. This is
a beginner level class and we're all learning UM, and
(19:40):
we have to perform these exercises, performing the kind of
like this like very specific rule UM of the Meisner
School of acting, and these little sketches in groups of
two or three at a time, like one after another.
So I've been at this in this point three or
four classes. I really have not experienced a ton. I
(20:02):
don't know any of my fellow students really, like like
we're all a lot of us are in this cold.
Yesterday I was an acting class and this woman was
on a death rampage like she was like, leave no prisoners,
(20:24):
scorched Earth, I want to kill everyone, and I'm in
today is the day that you all die? Like it
was so I'm not gonna lie. Riveting. It was riveting.
And and victim number one, so like there a few
exercises happened. They were going, Okay, Victim number one. A
girl gets into this exercise. She is not doing amazing
(20:48):
basically because she's not really following this like Meisner rule
that is drilled into us. At this point, she's repeating
this Meisner rule over and over to us. And this
girl is kind of just like that, you have to
repeat what the other person is saying to you. It's
it's it's kind of it's it's again, it's it's. So
it's hard to describe without me going into like no,
(21:09):
no it because yeah, like it's like about scene it's
like about scene work and like that. You're like listening
before you speak, but you're not but you're not really
supposed to. Yeah, you're listening and you're not really supposed
to improvise, right, you're not supposed to be conversational. You're
not asking questions, You're just really trying to repeat things
at each other until you catch an emotional pinch point.
It's so I sound I see I'm participating in the cult. Okay,
(21:34):
So this girl finishes the exercise, she kind of that
kind of just oh my god, I just said her name.
Will you believe that? Okay? Okay, So I just said
the teacher's name, and I have to say that this
woman has a very satisfying white woman. No, when you
said it, I was like, yep, that's her name. Um,
(21:54):
she kind of cuts you off. She decides when you're done.
The teacher says what says when you're done? And she
turns to the class and she goes, so, what was
wrong with this iconic? And she trains the kids to
to humiliate the students on stage in real time by
(22:15):
repeating the thing that everybody knows that this person on
stage doesn't know. Isn't that isn't that crazy? And she goes,
so this isn't working because she's not repeating blah blah
blah and all these ds like she's culturing and conditioning
the class to Brady. Yeah, acting is any kind of
acting school or theater school is psychological warfare? Yes, and
(22:38):
through the whole time this whole class, and honestly a
little bit in previous classes. She's really like specific about
pitting the kids against each other. She goes, she'll say, actually,
like yes exactly, so I'll get into that. But she
she goes, did you She turns to the girl and
she goes, did you rehearse? And she goes, no, I
haven't rehearsed. And she's like really big about rehearsal, and
she goes, you guys need to rehearse. You guys need
(23:00):
to rehearse or you're gonna show up and you're gonna suck.
You're gonna show up and you're gonna suck. And she
turns to the girl and she goes, she was like,
how do you think you did today? And she was
like the girl was like literally just trying to advocate
for herself, Like she's not being disrespectful, she's just kind
of like, you know, at our time, I think I
did okay, Like she's genuinely trying to analyze herself and goes, Okay,
(23:20):
well you sucked. I love her. She's victim number two
steps up here, and again not the same mistake, but
like a truly a truly honest mistake. And infraction on
like not understanding what the Meisner method is. And this
(23:42):
is a girl who is at the same experience level
as me, So the previous girl she's been in like
another month or class. This girl, like like me, has
only met Kathleen three times. I just said her name again.
This girl, much like mother, much like Brenda, has only
we've we've only met her. Oh wait, sorry, So this
(24:05):
girl has literally only met Kathleen like three or four times. Um,
I can't believe. I just said. I can't believe. I'm
so sleep deprived. So this girl literally has only met
my teacher, has only met mother three or four times.
She doesn't do the exercise right. She has watched other
(24:28):
students get chewed out. And she's doing this thing that
mister people hate, which is acting. She always says, like,
no acting up there. I don't want to see you
putting on a character. And she kind of puts on
a teeny bit of a character, just like a wink.
And this woman, this woman to shoots her in the head. Yes.
And this girl was like a teeny tiny little white
girl from Kansas City, Like she just stepped right off
(24:50):
the bus and she was here to like live her
dream like she believed in my will. But Kathleen, Kathleen, sorry,
I keep saying her name, And so mother turns the
class again and she's like, okay, so why was this weird?
This was weird right, like like cuts her. It's so bizarre.
She's like, so, why was this weird? Yeah, and she
(25:12):
turns to the girl and she goes, so what you
did it was fucking weird. And she goes okay, and
she's smiling receiving this feedback, like tears streaming down her eyes,
and she's just like, she's like okay, and this woman goes,
she goes, if you show up and you do that
at your job, it's like everyone's gonna be annoyed with you.
(25:35):
You will never work in this town if you show
up and do that. She's three class. She's so real
for that, and then she love her Yes, she says you,
she says, you're never gonna work in this town again.
And then she says, she goes, she goes, what you
did up there was annoying. You annoy me, and this
(25:58):
girl grinned and took it, and that this is the
point in the class. There was also another group of
victims where in like someone wasn't doing the exercise properly,
so that my teacher went for that person. She choose
them out. The other student throws the other student under
the bus. It's like it's like their carnivores. Like we're
just trying to survive out here. And I'm realizing, Rose,
(26:19):
in real time, that my teacher is lydiatar, and that
I am literally in real time experiencing the auditorium scene,
and I as a first time student, I am about
to get on stage after all of these students have
been chewed out, and I am a BIPOC fan gender
(26:44):
you said it, and so okay, look we're traumatized people.
I was in fighter flight mode. I was like actually
kind of wigging out because I was like, I Rose,
you know me, like I will grin and bear a
lot of things. I will not let someone disrespect me. No,
you you know, and even in a professional setting, I
(27:08):
will not tolerate any level of disrespect. And so when
if someone said to my face, you suck, I honestly
have no idea like what I would have done. It's
always kind of preparing myself for like what this woman,
what this teacher was going to do, to me and
you slayed. No, I didn't. I didn't slay. And what
(27:32):
I thought that was going to be the triumphant twist
of this story. Well, to be totally honest, like I
have actually been doing I feel a really great job
in the class for like what I wanted to accomplish.
I am taking this class, and this I think is
a good way to kind of polish it off. But
like I'm taking this class specifically because like I'm bad
at being in my body. I'm like really bad at
(27:52):
listening a lot of the time, and like I feel
like it's acting is like a really worthwhile skill set,
especially this method that would help me with a lot
of things that I want to learn how to do
in an outside of Hollywood. And so I'm they're just
like genuinely trying to learn, and she's up here being like,
you guys will never make your dreams. You're all gonna suck.
You all suck, and I'm just kind of like this
(28:13):
isn't my dream and I'm like perfectly fine with sucking.
Like that's kind of that was kind of the issue
that I was like going through my head, is like
I was like, I have no problem with you tell
me I suck. I'm not trying to be an actor,
you know what I mean, So, like your words don't
really affect me, but everyone else in that room is
trying to be an actor. Yes, And also no offense
to everyone else in this room. I don't care about
what any of these people think. So like, this woman
(28:35):
can try to humiliate me, but like she's not going
to And she tried it, she literally tried it, and
she started by coming for me by something that I
did that was not against the rules of the exercise,
but because she was on a rampage, she decided to
come for me, and so I was like, look, and
luckily the girl that was in the exercise with me
(28:56):
also advocated like for both of us, and we were
both kind of we were the only students the entire
class that ever stood up to her because she was
being crazy, like truly being crazy, but she was also
being iconic, and so it's like really hard it goes. Yeah,
(29:17):
But anyways, I know exactly who I am and I
know my self worth and I'm going to advocate for
that every time. So like what you say to me,
like has no bearing on what I do outside of
this class, because you don't know anything about that, And
I think that it was just weird to experience this
place where the stakes were very high for everyone else,
(29:37):
and I'm just like kind of a weird fly on
the wall slash, Like it feels like I'm in a documentary. Well,
I mean, good for you for telling mother to go
fund herself. You know, you never have to deal with
this again because you're literally moving across the country, But
you know, it is rough for people who legitimately want
(29:59):
to be act and the amount of torture you have
to put yourself through to do that. I remember there
was one scene study class that I was in in
college where we did this exercise where we would have
to run up and down the stairs of the building
five times and then come in and do our scene,
(30:20):
because the thought was that like getting to an extreme
level of physicality would bring out genuine emotion. And like,
of course, in the moment, you're telling yourself like, yeah,
that totally worked. That was amazing, But like that's not
something that's replicable when you're a working actor, which like
ostensibly is the goal of going to acting school. And
(30:42):
I think a lot of this and probably what you
experience is like a lot of teachers are able to
tell themselves that it's okay to be hard on their
students because of how cutthroat the business that they're going
into is. And a lot of them are failed actors themselves,
and they're thinking, like, well, if they can't handle this
(31:02):
in class, then it's better that they learned that now
before they go out into the world and try to
make it as actors. It is literally it's exactly what
like it reminded me of Tyr Banks in America's Next
Top Model, where she like choose, you choose if you,
as the teacher or arbiter of this space, are choosing
to just like just to like participate and to enforce
(31:25):
existing oppressive systems in your industry instead of actively wanting
to change them. Like it's just kind of bonkers. And
the reality is like to be an actor, all you
have to be is hot, Like it truly doesn't matter
how talented you are. Yes, yes, yes, yes, I completely
agree with that. And also just to as a side note,
you have to run up like ten flights of stairs
(31:46):
or whatever for like acting, like listen, that is a
method that only works if you went too like the
Matilda school of like musical theater where they make those
kids probably run like fifteen flights before every scene. Honey,
you know I do. I think it's interesting that you
(32:16):
are talking about this as a cult, because I've been
thinking a lot about cults over the past couple of days.
I watched this new Hulu documentary Stolen Youth. Have you
heard about it? No? I haven't so Stolen Youth as
a documentary about it's Stolen Youth, the cult inside the cult,
it's Sarah Lawrence. I totally didn't know that this ever happened,
(32:39):
but in like the early twenty tens, there was a
cult of kids who went to Sarah Lawrence. And it
was these kids who all lived together and like on
campus housing or off campus housing, I don't know um
and one of their dads had been in prison and
(33:01):
when he got out, came and stayed with them, which
is like why would you let it happen? And then
he basically like became a cult leader and a bunch
of them like moved into a one bedroom apartment in
the city with him, and there was like sex trafficking
and all this crazy shit. And you know, it's a
(33:23):
very interesting documentary. It's only three episodes, which is good
because I like, couldn't have done more, and it's I
I appreciate it because with something that's like true crime,
I need it to have like a definitive ending. Like
I hate a true crime thing where it's like the
(33:45):
mystery is still unsolved or like the killer is still
out yeah, or like you know, it's the trial hasn't
happened this like the trial happened very recently. This guy
is serving sixty years in prison with that parole. It's
like it's done. You know, people have gotten out of
the cult. There's one girlie who's still like she has
only just now disavowed him. But the thing that I
(34:09):
was thinking, which is what I always think when cult
stuff happens, is couldn't be me. He couldn't he could
have never gotten me. I would never have bought into
that ship. And honestly, I kind of judge them for
being susceptible to it because like this guy is so
he's like so clearly, like he's this like ugly like
(34:33):
doughey white guy who just like manipulated all these college
kids and like they were you know, they were adults,
they were they were like sophomores. In college. And I'm
not not to victim blame, but but but I'm victim blame.
But I just I watched this and I just like
(34:53):
truly don't get how you can be how you can like,
uh like be a sheep a sheep like that and
and let this person like the things that this guy
had them doing. Like obviously you know some of these
(35:13):
like there was one kid who, um, you know, was
like struggling with his sexuality and the guy like twisted
all of his ideas of like what it was to
be a man. And you know, um, I get that
people are vulnerable and could be manipulated, but I just
watched these cult things and I'm like, no, not me,
because like, if there's two things I'm always happy to do,
(35:36):
it's not listen to what people have to say and
just stay home. And you know, for the for those reasons,
I truly believe I could never be I could never
be hoodwinked into joining a fault. But on the flip side,
I do think I could very easily start a cult.
Oh I do that I could. I could really um,
I could manipulate. I could be a good cult leader
(35:58):
and manipulate people into like living or dying on my word. Well,
for the virgins, I think that that was implied. It's
just very interesting to like look at this. I'm able
to like watch these things from such a such a
distance and like find it interesting and just fully not
understand what could lead someone to think that that was normal. Yeah,
(36:21):
I just yeah, I just really get it. I just
really don't get it. It's like being a turf, you know,
I don't. I don't get so you can like devote
your whole life to something that is like so lame
and like unimportant and like just like go touch grass.
It's wretched and it's also like not even about you
like you are. That's the thing about cults. I honestly
(36:44):
I empathize. I also feel like I can be I
can feel judgmental about people that are highly susceptible, but
I'm also a people pleaser. Like I feel like I
am highly susceptible, and I don't know, It's it's tough.
Sometimes this is a grey area. Yeah, um, I do
want to take a little trip into Rose's book corner. Yes,
(37:06):
we need like we need like some theme music or
something for Rose's book Corner. We need like a kind
of reading rainbow ass like theme music kind of momentum So,
as any of you who have been falling along with
Rose's book club no m our. First, like foray into
this was reading man Hunt by Gretchen Felker Martin. Um
(37:28):
I just finished it about a week ago. It took
me a little bit to get into it, but then
once I was about halfway through, I really powered through
the end and read it in like a like a
day or two. Um. So, the novel is a post
apocalyptic zombie horror story in which a virus called t
(37:49):
Rex has decimated the world's population. It's a zombie virus
that specifically targets testosterone, so it turns anyone with you know,
an abundance of testosterone in their body largely sis men
into these you know, like very animalistic, super disgusting zombies
(38:10):
who in like a somewhat like different take on zombies
not only like eat and kill people, but rape people.
And so that was like a you know, disturbing edition
and like for anyone who hasn't yet read this book,
like some serious trigger warnings about sexual salt, transphobia, like
(38:33):
lots of different stuff, but you can you know, investigate
that on your own and so the survivors in the
zombie apocalypse are women and m sis women trans women,
and that is really the divide of this novel. So
there's um. The two real main characters are these two
(38:56):
trans girls, Beth and Fran, and they and it's such
a good One of them is named Fran. Her name
is Fran fine like the Nannie. Yeah name, I love that, Okay,
but it's never really like talked about, but it just
that's her name, and I think that's funny. So so
they um then and then when the novel starts, they
(39:18):
are so they they they call themselves man hunters. They
go around um hunting down zombie men to extract their
testicles because they're the only source of estrogen in this
post apocalyptic world. They are friends with the doctor who
extracts estrogen from the testicles and um like sells it
(39:42):
to women like older women with pcos um. And the
premise is so it's really fascinating because, like you know,
as we've been talking about with like the Last of
Us all zombie media, UM looks at the way the
world old reforms after it falls apart, and so to
(40:03):
look at through the lens of transness, and gender is
really fascinating. And so these these women are like out hunting,
they come across this roving band of turfs. So turfs
have now banded together to form this thing called the Matriarchy,
and they are like a militant organization who you know,
(40:27):
go around like killing trans women, and they've taken over
different cities. And then also like in their travels, they
pick up a trans man who has been living on
his own, like living on the land, and he's very
like he he like is really like gun savvy, and
he doesn't want to go with them because he has
(40:48):
some like bad experiences in his past, but he ends
up joining them. They and their doctor friend eventually become
part of this commune that's run by this like this
little billionaire girl. There's also another character who is a
POV who is part of the matriarchy, but she is
(41:08):
a chaser and is like in love with this non
binary sex worker. And so it's like just all these
different viewpoints into what this world looks like and the
thing most about but I felt while reading this, and
I brought this up a couple other times talking about
novels written about or by trans people is like reading
(41:32):
this gave me this feeling like I would love to
only read novels written by trans people, because I only
want to read trans characters who are written by trans people,
Because there's just something that SIS people don't get. There.
There are ways of thinking that SIS people just don't
think about the ways in which we talk to each other,
(41:56):
the ways in which we think about ourselves, how mean
we can be about each other, Like you know, like
the it's there. There are some ridiculous moments where like
we're in the we're in the apoc like post apocalyptic world,
zombie world, and people are still worried about like how
(42:16):
how much they pass, which is how it would work.
How like how fem they are compared to other trans
women still like calling each other bricks. Um. It's it's
just it's so scary, but it feels so possible, which
is I think the best. Um, the best like the
(42:38):
when when dystopian fiction is at its best is when
you can see how it would happen. Um. And I
also love that like within the kind of thematic question
of this book that you're laying out, like a lot
of the things you're talking about, like these kind of
trans two point zero three point zero conversations or ways
of thinking to then be met it on the rest
(43:00):
of the world, because it's now become a biological impart,
Like it's become a cultural disaster that now requires the
help of trans women, and you still like now you're
forced to wrap your head around this in some way
or to think about it. Yeah, and then and you
see the way that sis people who like would consider
(43:20):
themselves allies, how they would behave in the apocalypse. Like
one of the one of the main characters, you know,
has flashbacks too. When the virus first broke out, she
lived in this like queer commune house and the trans
women like eventually were kicked out of it, even and
you know, all of the people in the house were
(43:42):
like you know, play acted being like devastated about it,
and like we're you know, chiding them for their like
problematic reaction to it. And it's it's just like a
new take on what the world looks like when it
falls apart from a specifically not just queer perspective, but
(44:03):
trans perspective, and like they're just it's also extremely funny. Um,
you know, at one point they go into this like um,
you know, like trans lesbian um like camp and it's
like the one thing that survives the apocalypse is Dike drama,
which is so funny. Um it is such a Oh. Also, um,
(44:30):
at the end of the novel, there's this whole um
plot point of this um like ruined naval ship that
the Turfs reclaim and they rename it the gall Braith,
which is anyone who doesn't know is jk Rowling's pseudonym.
Pen names so fucking funny. So you also you also
(44:51):
do find out what happened to JK Rowling in the
Apocalypse and it's it's like delicious Okay, no spoilers, Okay, spoilers. Um,
let's just say her money could not protect her. And
it is really sad, moving, grotesque, hilarious, and I'm so
(45:14):
excited to see, um, you know, more work from the author.
And it just really invigorated me about, you know, the
future of specifically trans fiction and trans art, because it
just shows what can happen when we're allowed to tell
our own stories to each other and not worry about
(45:39):
you know, like the CIS gays or the CIS audience
or the CIS gay Yeah, yeah, exactly, And yeah, I
would love to hear what virgins, what you thought of it,
if you read it, if you decide to read it
after this slide into our DMS and let us know. So, wait,
sounds like a great book. We I feel like we
should have some sort of like um evaluation for Rosa's
(46:02):
book quarter How many out of five roses? How many
roses does it? Oh? Out of five roses? I would
get Well, I did rate it five stars on good Reads,
five out of five. But but that was like also
because I know that this author has been review bombs,
so I wanted to do my part in like getting
it up there. Um, I would say, if we're grading
(46:22):
it on the like a virgin Rosa's book corner spectrum,
I'm gonna say, um, eight point five out of ten roses. Oh,
we're doing out of ten? That gives you quite a scale. Yeah, Okay,
I think that's important. Okay, good love eight point five,
So it's a B plus. Maybe it's a it's an
an okay an an. Yeah. I I sounded like it
(46:45):
sounded like a knock out of the park. It sounds fine. Yeah,
it is fascinating. Maybe I'll learn to read one day.
And I do think I do think I have the
next book. Oh look it's right over right over your shoulder,
right there behind me a little. And so this so
I wanted to do something that is like that is
not new and is and I still want to stick
(47:06):
with queer literature, but um, a little a different side
of the spectrum. So this is finger Smith by Sarah Waters.
Sarah Waters is an iconic lesbian novelist. Her novel Tipping
the Velvet is one of my favorite books, possibly possibly
my favorite book. What, um, you always I've ever your
(47:29):
favorite book ever? Yeah? Wow? Um, but I've never read Fingersmith.
It has been adapted into a miniseries. It was also
adapted into the film The Handmaiden, which which I've never seen.
Um wait but you've never really I've never seen The Handmaiden,
but I've heard really good things about it. But apparently
the novel is very different. Um. So I started reading it,
(47:52):
um a couple days ago, and I'm not that far
in so again, like as as we did with Manhunt,
like maybe a month from now, we'll check in and
do you know my thoughts in Rose's book Corner? Um,
I honestly was trying to pinpoint where i'd heard Fingersmith
before Handmaid. The Handmaid is like one of my favorite
(48:15):
gay movies of all time period. Rose, you and I
should watch it together, we should do a virtue. Okay,
well that's well, I'll definitely watch it after I read. Yeah,
of course. And I think that'll be a really nice
way for us to talk about it in the next
installment of Rose's book Corner, because you'll be able to
speak about the adaptation, and like I'll be able to
give sort of like a counterpoint of the of the
(48:36):
knowledge and maybe I'll read it. Who knows? Do you
want to know something? And this, actually I'm realizing in
real time. I used to be a voracious reader. You
know this in college before I had an iPhone, Like
books where my only friends and so I used to
read all the fucking time. Do you know what killed
my love of reading? One? Entering the workforce will really
(48:58):
kill the imagination, really kill your spare time. Two. I
worked at random House for a year. And when you
work at a book publishing company, books are garbage. Books
are garbage you used to wipe your ass with. And
every single floor, no seriously, and every single floor of
the publishing company it has multiple bookshelves filled with free
(49:20):
books that I would just like, in my spare time,
wander around and collect all of these books, being like
I'm going to read these someday and like just slowly
devaluing the thing that I love most in the world,
which is books. Um. Anyways, that was Rosa's book corner
(49:52):
before we log off. I guess, do we want to
do a Drag Race mid season check in because we
are now we have crossed the halfway. Yeah. So I
am really liking this season. I think it's kind of
the best crop of girls we've had in a couple
of seasons of main Drag Race. I think after the
first four four we're cut out I agree, yes, um
(50:15):
and really bringing the interpersonal drama, which I love. Um,
which is why I wish we were getting the ninety
minute episodes and that they just like feel it feels
like we're not getting enough of the stuff that we want. Um.
And then but and you know, um, MTV recently announced
that in March, ninety minute episodes are returning, but by
(50:36):
that time, there's gonna be like none of them left. Yeah. Um,
at least that means more Sasha Colby lip syncing, Like
that's all I really want this. The the Lala Perusa
episode was thrilling. Um you know some some front runners
really have emerged for me. I obviously like still love
Sasha Colby and um A Nietra was one of my
(50:58):
early faves. I am a mistress stand first and an
American scand period period period. She's so good. What she
does is drag like drag in the most in the
most classic sense. She is old school Southern painted but
(51:21):
painted for the gods will fucking shade you until you
jump off a building. Drag queen. And I love it.
And I honestly think it's the first time that like
a plus sized girl who coming from that drag perspective,
Like truly I think she could win. Yeah, I I
it would be really it has actually been a while
(51:43):
since we had something of and I'm trying to I'm
going through the winners in my brain like something of
an old school queen, right like, like I'm thinking about
like someone like Beyond adel Rio or something like that.
Like it's it's like classic like clown paint like drag.
Sasha Colby also does a version of like classic drag,
but hers is like Toagin style, right like it's it's different,
(52:07):
like Mistress is captivating I think in the art and
also like I don't remember if this was in Untucked
or in one of like the debriefs, but like, I
love her story. I love that she's literally never had
another job and that she had drag as survival to
like this is all she could do to like not
be homeless. Like it painted a picture of her more
(52:29):
clearly and showed us. I think, what's at stake for
a competitor like her versus what's at stake for other competitors,
Not that it makes the other competitors, you know, like
not worthwhile, but like she's just it's different for her.
Drag is life for her, Drag is life. Is there
anyone else who you've who has emerged as someone you're
(52:52):
into or um? My Top four remains the same, Anietra, Sasha, Mistress,
and Spice. I love Spice, Spice has gotta go. I
need Spice like I need Derek Barry. I need this
(53:13):
woman on screen as much as possible after your a
certain point, like she really showed her ask this episode,
even though I will say her lip sync with Malaysia
was the second one. Yeah, I think Spice one. I
think Spice eight. I think Spice ate her up honestly
a little bit, But it was so long ago, I'm
(53:33):
trying to remember the nuances of the actual lip syncs.
Like obviously Nietra was the standout, you know, that was
that was the moment that was one of the best
lip syncs in Drag Race her story. I totally agree,
Like it's something that you would revisit, something that will
like click back on and rewatch, Like it's so thrilling
(53:55):
to watch Sasha perform, especially on TV now. God, I mean,
can't even say more. And to watch a Niittra perform
a Nietra just had this. She has this um like
fluidity and grace to her um and you can definitely
see like she's so Vegas, like she's such a show
girl and that and so is Sasha, And like I
(54:18):
love seeing that kind of drag be praised on this platform.
And I'm just very excited by this cast after like
I don't know, a couple of seasons of like sure
having a few standouts here and there, but I think
this is a very solid cast all the way through.
They have good drama, and the challenges have been really
(54:40):
good and um yeah, I'm I'm enjoying the ride. We'll
see how we feel after we watch I don't know,
two more months of two more two or three more
months of this? Yeah okay? Um another midseason check in
the Last of Us. Did you watch? Did you watch
Sunday Yesterday's episode or Sunday's episode? I did? Um. It
was so happy to see Routina West from True Blood
(55:02):
back on HBO because my girl Tara stand for Life,
which which character was that she was his brother's wife,
the one who was pregnant. Oh okay, who gave Ellie
the Diva cup? That was I love. I loved moments
like that. That was so funny. Um. I love the
(55:23):
heart that the show continues to build, like, I love
their relationship. Um. Yes, And I liked that there was
a little bit of the passage of time because I
think we needed that. I think we needed them like
further solidified into their dynamic, especially after what happened at
the end of last week's episode, which was so traumatic,
(55:44):
you know, like traumatic and jarring, and you know, I
think it was really cool to see. I mean, Pedro
Pascale is such an incredible actor, and that scene where
he broke down and like finally kind of confessed that
he really cares about this person and like and doesn't
(56:05):
want to fail her. And the parallels of her and
his daughter is really heart wrenching. And you know this,
you know, if you watch the inside the episodes that
Atrio does after the episodes, like they talk a lot
about how this show is ultimately about the ways in
which the different ways in which love destroys people, and
(56:27):
I think this was like such every episode is a
great example of that, but this one was, you know,
so fascinating on the writing and the acting level. That
like scene with Pedro Pascal like is just it's so
I'm always in awe of like actors who portray, for
lack of a better word, like emotionally stunted people because
(56:50):
to act emotion like through this like huge wall that
this character has built up, it's like, yeah, you just
like have to watch every second of it. It's so
so fun to watch. Patrovisk is about to become so
much more famous, Like he is going to be booked
and busy. Also, the guy who plays his brother is
so hot and so hot to see them kiss. Oh
(57:13):
you know what. My favorite moment from the most recent
episode after they have their huge argument, which is like,
to me, that was the moment that stuck out to
me as like where they're just like they're crying and
screaming at each other or whatever, and he you know,
shows up the next morning and he's like, listen, you
can make a choice, and she just cuts him off
and she's like, okay, let's go. So fucking good like
(57:37):
it was, I laughed out loud. It's so satisfying, a
great writing, great storytelling. I also loved the scene where
he goes back to the house they're staying at and
I guess that scene is directed is I guess that
scene is lifted directly from the game, and they were
incredibly faithful to it. But I especially love that it's
(57:59):
taking place in this house, in this you know, bedroom
of a teenager who probably died twenty years ago, and
it like mirrors um a fight between a father and
a daughter, but it's like they're this different version of that,
and it's just fantastic storytelling. It's so good. And I
(58:21):
just like, Pedro Pascual, sit on my face, Sit on
my face. After this gift was shared with a huge ass,
Oh my god, little little booty bump. I haven't even
watched the interview, so I don't know the context of
the booty bue, but like damn that it doesn't matter.
Context doesn't matter. And I also didn't realize I can't
(58:41):
remember which podcast clue me into this. Um oh it
was Last Culture. Um, I didn't know that Pedro was
the buy one from Game of Thrones. You didn't know
I watched Game of Thrones in like a in a
haze Lucid dreamstay yeah, yeah, yeah, Um that's crazy. Elavender Hayes.
(59:03):
Oh God, I shouldn't have brought her up. How dare
you so? Um? Catch up with us on Like a
Virgin four twenty sixty nine. Tell us, um, what what
you know? What you're into right now? Let us know
(59:24):
what you thought of any of the things we talked about.
Your thoughts about man Hunt, if you're going to read Fingersmith,
your thought about the Meisner acting method? Honey, yeah, have
you ever taken do you have any acting class horror stories? Um?
Please slide into our dms and share. We we love
it when you do that. Um. I'm your co host,
Rose damn you. You can find me anywhere online at
(59:45):
Rose Damn you and I'm fran Toado. You can find
me at Franz Squishco anywhere you want. Please make sure
to rate us on Spotify and review us on Apple Podcasts.
It helps us out so much. Like a Virgin is
an iHeartRadio production. Our producer is Phoebe Enter, with support
from Lindsay Hoffman and Nikki Iatore. Until next week by
(01:00:07):
me Avoi
Popular Podcasts
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Therapy Gecko
An unlicensed lizard psychologist travels the universe talking to strangers about absolutely nothing. TO CALL THE GECKO: follow me on https://www.twitch.tv/lyleforever to get a notification for when I am taking calls. I am usually live Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays but lately a lot of other times too. I am a gecko.