Nothing Nowhere Never Ever

• New York, New York a.k.a. the Fifth Character on SATC and Rose's New Boyfriend
• Plus, Sweeney Todd, the Oscars and a very special announcement!!

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:02):
I'm so glad I use my last adderall for this.
I feel on welcome to like a virgin the show.
We'll give yesterday's pop culture, today's takes. I'm Rosdam, I'm
Fran Froda, and we do have a secret third guest
in the studio right now currently, I think waiting for
an uber and much will be revealed, much will be

(00:24):
Are we even allowed to say, we're allowed to say
this is our podcast. I don't know. I don't know
what friends in the studio right now. We just record
an episode of her. She's going to exercise a strain
as we have us and Oscar's commentary if she can.
Was told to be quiet, and we'll also be well.
I think okay. The big thing is that we did
finally see Sweeney Todd on Broadway. It's currently in previews.

(00:47):
We saw the previews version for sure. Yes, Fran has
never seen Sweeney Todd before. I of course it's one
of my favorites. Um top line, I'm gonna say seven
point five out of ten. Wow. Honestly, I didn't know.
I didn't think it was going to be that high.
I thought, I don't know. How we felt leaving the theater.
I was like, I'm not sure how I overall experienced this,
but as you said, like, I've always wanted to see

(01:09):
a staging and so I was just kind of like
so happy to be there the whole time. I was
happy to be there too. And the reason it's so
high is because it's Sweeney Tide. It is an incredible
staging of the show. The scenery is amazing, the twenty
six piece orchestra incredible. A lot of the voices are
very good. Joanna's sounds really great. That kid from Stranger

(01:31):
Things is Toby is really good. The conductor of the
twenty six piece orchestra was suckable. Suckable. Josh Grobin would
suck but that's kind of the problem. Okay, So now
we got to the critiques, which are Josh Groban Annie
Ashford both about ten years too young to play either
of the roles. An have thought of because I'm not like,

(01:53):
I'm not like as in the theater the theater. I
didn't know that, Yeah, I didn't. I wasn't thinking about
that when I watched it. Annalie also doing a horrible
Cockney accent, which was baffling to me because when I
watched the Monica Lewinsky like kind of show or whatever.
She does an amazing she's really good accent work, and
she's such a classically trained Like what I was just

(02:15):
I was like, isn't Cockney like one of the asier ones,
you know, And the most unfortunate thing is just she
just can't sing it. Her voice isn't powerful enough. Her
voice sounded great, yeah, but with the accent, it like
kind of muddled it. I think no, I mean she
she couldn't hit the notes. And I think she acted
the role really well. Like the comedy of it was great.

(02:36):
She's such a great physical comedian. She had the only laughs.
There's a moment where she slides down the stairs that
were super funny. Her by the sea like brought the
house down, but it didn't bring the house down. Vocally,
none of her vocals were quite where they were. And
then with Josh Grobin it was a little too perfect. Yeah,
he needed to be a little more gruff. And I mean,

(02:56):
Sweeney Todd is supposed to be scary and Josh Grobin
is not scary. Know. Tommy's like, You're like, no, um,
I I feel like, yeah, the thing with me was
like I Um, I feel like Josh's vocal quality lent
itself perfectly to like the you know, the operatic vocals
of a Todd of like Todd right as a character,

(03:17):
but like the only I mean again weird. I was
dming someone else who's like in the Broadway world about this,
who maybe have some friends in the production, and he
was defending it a little bit to me, and I
was like, Okay, we saw a very very previews, like
it had only been in previews for like a week
or two, and so we saw a very raw staging.
But like the only acting choice Josh Grobin made was
to like have a limp, and I was like, I

(03:38):
was like, no other choices. I was like, make choices
be scary, be weird, be funny. And the thing the
thing that I appreciate about Annalie Ashford's Missus Lovett, even
though we you know, you said she's a little young,
she didn't have that coarseness. I agree with that. Um.
I felt like, you know, she added this modernity to
miss to Missus Lovett that I appreciate it. I was like,
that makes she put her own little spice on it.

(04:01):
I see and love like everything that she did and
I was like, this is this is working for me? Tommy,
you want to chime in before you exit the building.
I haven't seen it yet, but I did think the
announcement was weird, and I'm going to try and see
it this month. And it's one of my favorite musicals
of all time. Favorite song. Who would you play? Oh
my god? I mean I could see as the beggar woman. Yeah,
the beggar woman? Is that how? I'm a bottom Carter's

(04:26):
yeah that is unfortunately, yeah, okay, she's she's going to
exit the studio hunch. I just really loved Joanna honestly
as a song, it so incredible and like just the
movie version of that. I actually haven't seen it on stage.
Before I'm realizing I only know the movie version. Yeah. Unfortunately,
Anthony in this production was not great. Anthony Prosky's kidding here, Yeah,

(04:49):
that shockingly. But we have to say the worst part
of this production of Sweet Todd was the choreography. What
was going on. The thing about Sweeney Todd specifically is
that the music is so powerful and the voices singing,
especially the first song, the Ballad of Sweeney Todd, is

(05:10):
that the music and the voices women together are so
intricate and powerful that literally nothing else needs to happen
on stage, and yet they undercut that in this production
by having them do, as Friend pointed out, all this
Martha Graham ass choreography like they're in a high school
production of Hair. Yeah, it was Martha Graham is exactly
the vibe. It was this kind of pseudo contemporary like

(05:34):
fluid bodies like one of the So honestly, I think
Rose and I, I don't know if this is your experience,
my experience from the first song, we immediately felt this
like awfulness about what about this kind of like how
the ensemble was stage and something that they try right
from jump is the classic, the classic Martha Graham like

(05:55):
kind of a pulsating body blob of like you know
on someone members, like pulsing whatever, anything like turning into
each other like one writhing mass of flesh. And I
think it might have been a previous thing. But I
also was like, the people in this cast are vocalists.
I did not see them all as like choreo girls,
and I think when you do the perfectly synchronized human blob,

(06:16):
it's like you do have to be perfectly sac They
were not. It just doesn't need You don't need choreography
with this music, specifically with Sandheim. You should just stand
there and sing. It should be good enough that you
can do that and it will be powerful. And there
were moments where they did small movements like little jerky

(06:36):
head things. That is as much as you need to do.
It was so overwrought and over choreograph and over choreographed,
and it just didn't need to be. But I still say,
if you love Sweeney Todd, if you want to see
a big, splashy Broadway production of it, definitely go see
it's It's absolutely worth it. I still had a fantastic time,

(06:57):
and you'll probably see a better version than what we
saw from the previews I feel. I mean, it probably
won't change that much from opening, but it might change
a little, and I would be interested in seeing it again.
After it opened. You were saying, you were like, what
did they just cut all the correo or something? I
like they could, but you're so right. It just they
just need spotlight lit from underneath so their faces look
really scary, and they need a park and bark spooky spooky. Yeah,

(07:19):
speaking of ooky spooky, last night were the Oscars Hollywood
spookiest night time of record. Yeah, last night were the Oscars. Yes,
I had a little I had a little Oscars gathering.
It was my first time entertaining that many people in
my home. How did I do as a hostess? The
couch was doing a lot of work. The snacks that
you that you laid out do that, and we didn't

(07:40):
even eat them all. I have so many dips in
my fridge. I took cheese home. I also last night
I was so worried about people eating on the couch.
And I was because I have a white couch. Well
it's like an ivory color, and I was so worried
about it, about someone like spilling on it. Nothing happened
this morning. I like checked it over. I was cleaning
it was perfect, and then what did I do? I

(08:00):
cut my leg and bled all over the couch. This wording, honey,
But it's a it's a performance fabric. It's I already
cleaned it off. It is I bought I bought up.
I'm not going to get a white couch in a
in a fabric that would not like be cleanable. As
a seasoned hostess, I mean you're also a seasoned hostess,
but not with this house. Um, I will say, little tip.

(08:20):
I do not serve foods that can stain anything. So
that blueberry cheval you had, which nobody ate, I ate it,
you were and you took it home. I love the
Trader Joe's blueberry chevro. Okay, I love that cheese. I
bought so much food less yesterday, like I bought it
as if I was hosting fifteen people because I haven't
hosted in a while. But we horked it down. I
thought I did a good job. The punch was delicious.

(08:42):
Another thing I would not have allowed in my home stainable. Okay,
well but but but it was delicious. It was delicious.
That is a classic recipe of sorbet and sprite and
sprite and like grenadine and cherries. Um. So, our experience
of watching the Oscars last night was basically every time
a new person was showcased on camera or friend Hilton

(09:03):
or I would say would suck or talked about how
much we needed their loads, And that was kind of
our Oscars experience. There was a kind of low doometer.
It was just like how many loads? And when Pedro
Pascal came up to present work off there all screamed, well,
we screamed, I think before you got there. Pedro did

(09:23):
some red carpet interview and he did a thing where
he like looked at the camera and we all daddy,
We like, we all climaxed instant here. We all became
his baby girls. Um, I he's the baby girl, is
the reality, and he his his oscars joke was gay.
It was gay. Well he's aged. But what we can

(09:47):
talk about is that he had that post that was
kind of alluding to the fact that like when he
was like the answer is like in the wind or whatever,
he's kind of staying like, if you're asking questions about
my sexuality, I don't give a fuck, Like, yeah, it's there,
it's there for the taking. I don't need a comment
on it. Further, if that was your interpretation of the post,
which some people would not interpret it that way, I
feel like, if you're in your fifties and you're at

(10:09):
the what is the prime peak of your career? His
sister is transum Bella is you know, non binary. You
have so many people in your life where this is
like a prescient issue, and for him to be like, yeah,
why not, Like I thought it was gorgeous king behavior
um oscars, you know, as expected everything everywhere all at once,
swept no oscars for Tar. It won literally nothing and

(10:34):
went home empty hand at Toddfield and his giant hot
must have been pissed. Yeah, it was, honestly, there was.
That was something that I thought was interesting about. Like
the group that we had watching is between you, Me, Hilton, Peyton, Tie,
Michael QB. Like Twitter people were we were there like tweets.

(10:55):
It was the kind of situation where it's like laptop,
you hear the tweets before you see them on Twitter.
We were like, weren't shopping everything live. That's like someone
would say a joke and then if I got enough laughter,
you would see them pull out their phone, and I
think that, you know the I think our surprise about
the tar of it all was kind of that, right,
Like Tar was a Twitter movie. Um, not to reduce
it because it's obviously an amazing film, but like we

(11:18):
get into these like little echo chambers where we're just like,
this is the best thing ever created, right over and
over and over again, and then it's like and then
you know, but then also Kate did win a lot
of a lot of the awards shows leading up to
the Oscars, she was the front runner. I mean Michelle.
I would say Michelle was more the populist choice. But

(11:42):
you know, for both Brendan and Michelle, like these are
career wins more than I think specifically for the performance
they deliver. As much as we didn't want that fat
suit to have an Oscar, the fat suit literally won
an Oscar. So insane to say out loud. I mean, yeah,
it was wild. I mean rose a victory for us,

(12:04):
a loss for you, for everything everywhere all at wants too.
So it's not like I hate it kind of, but
I'm I'm just means, I'm glad. I'm glad that it's over.
I'm glad that award season's over. I'm glad that almost
a year after I saw it, that we can now
stop talking about everything everywhere all at one. I have
to I've nothing nowhere all and never ever, never ever. Okay,

(12:31):
I have been thinking about that record about your about
your everything everywhere diet tribe for lack of my fatigue.
It's really what it is. I have to say. I
was thinking about it and I was like, yeah, yeah,
it's exhausting when things were talked about for a year.
Avatar Way of Water has been talked about for seven years.
Do you not grow tired? But like as of last year,

(12:52):
I didn't even believe it was really coming out, So
it's kind of a different thing. Okay, sure, okay, some
stuff we couldn't get into the Last of Us finale happened. Friend,
don't watched it yet, so we'll we'll um hit it
next week. And also we have a very special announcement
coming next week, So multiple announcements, multiple loads. Uh, hang

(13:12):
on to your butt. The looter is is that that
little thing it's gonna break, It's going all the way
to glast is going to shatter. It's like that the
side that where it goes all the way over is
like bright silk and there's gonna become everywhere. Yeah yeah
yeah yeah. Um so whatever, it is, just like, do
not miss next week's episode. That's what we're saying. If you,
if you sometimes skips skip episodes, which if you are,

(13:33):
you're not a real virgin, um, do not skip next
week's episode. It is going to be packing. No, make
sure you are extra submissive, unbreathable next week. It was

(13:58):
a wise woman once said I was in the two
one two. Oh yeah, a wise woman. I think she's
wise beyond her years. Um, you know, for for not
very wise women. One said that New York was the
fifth character in a TV show. Shirt are sure? Um,

(14:20):
Today we are doing a cute little episode on New
York City, Love of our Lives Concrete Jungle. That will
never not be funny to me. That should be a hat.
Everything should be a hat. Everything should concrete jungle. Um. Anyways,
in this concrete Jungle, Rose, we're doing this. We're doing

(14:42):
this episode on our beloved Concrete Jungle to honor you know,
the my return following your return. Yeah, we are both
New Yorkers once again. And I okay, I think this
is like a I'll wait till you open your roy
my La. Sometimes you forget that sound travel also gets

(15:04):
picked up by the microphone. I'm not the only one.
I'm not the only one, but I am usually the
one usually the Um, when do you think, how long
do you think you have to live here before you
consider yourself a New Yorker? Um? Um, I'll just say
six years because that's how long I lived in New
York until I moved to La. See, I will say ten.

(15:25):
I think everyone says everyone says ten. I think it's
that's like kind of the standard. But I was trying to,
you know, put a spin on it too, for you
to validate your your own experience. Yeah, well, I mean
if you account no, never mind continue. So you think
it should be ten, I think it's ten. I don't know.
A decade just sounds right to me. But also the

(15:46):
real ty, honestly is it's not. It's not that you
have to be in New York for ten years. To me,
you're a real New Yorker when you want to move
to LA and when you want to move to LA,
like the magic of New York has worn and it
does kind of happen around ten years. Yes, yes, it
really does. I know so many people that move to
LA for like one, two or maybe three years and

(16:07):
then come back. Yeah. Well, well we'll get to that.
But I do want to talk about the our you know,
our personal New York mythology, because New York City um
does loom large and the cultural consciousness. It is a
real place, but it is also a like very um fictionalized.

(16:31):
Yeah it is. It is an idea as well as
a real place. And I think everyone grows up consuming
media about New York City. Everyone grows up thinking they
understand what this place is, and um, I know what
when I am what? How How did New York show

(16:55):
up for you in your childhood growing up? Like when
did you become conscious of it? I think my earliest
consciousness of New York is James and the Giant Peach, which,
you know, a lot of the arc of that movie
is about getting to New York City, being on the
Empire State Building. Um, there's this kind of grand adventure

(17:17):
and then the Emerald City at the end. And I
think that there are a lot of media like that
with New York as this kind of like you know, um,
Final Domain or whatever, Yes, the Final Doll. I loved
James the Giant Peach and that movie really is like
a love letter to York in a very weird way,
and a love letter to Peaches, yes, and a love
letter to Peaches, and uh, you know, James the Giant

(17:40):
Peach walked, so that call Me by your Name could
run um I but the real answer is Ugly Betty,
which we'll talk about in an Ugly Betty episode, but
definitely seeing Betty make it in New York, try to
make it in New York like constantly fail, constantly watch
people take advantage of her. I think was you know,

(18:01):
definitely a fictionalized version of New York, but it was
also something that was a lot realer than the media
at the time. Like im, you know, have actually gone
through so many things that actually happened in the New
York life of Betty. So was your sex in the city?
Is that an accurate guess? Um? No? I mean, I
guess it's kind of different from me because I grew

(18:23):
up coming here so often, right, you know, my mom
is from New York. My mom is a long Islander,
and when I was growing up, my mom's whole family
still lived up here. My grandparents lived here. Um, they
had a house in Florida. But I grew up visiting

(18:43):
New York City, and I think Broadway was probably the
entry point for me, because those are my earliest memories
of the city are coming in with my grandparents and
them taking us to see shows. Do you remember anything
about your very first trip or like what? Not very
first but definitely only one of the earliest ones I
remember was coming in with my grandparents to see Annie

(19:05):
Get Your Gun starring Bernadette Peters. Oh my god, it
was an iconic moment in my life, and I just, yeah,
I have lots of memories of like walking around Times
Square and seeing the bright lights, big city. But so yeah,

(19:26):
for me, growing up the I had both the idealized
version of New York that existed in movies and film
and books, and then also the actual experience of it
I had coming here because like I spent a lot
of time here as a child, and then I came

(19:48):
to New York on my own on a lot of
school trips, so I had real life experience of the
city as I was also watching this fantastical version of it.
And yes, definitely, I think Sex in the City was
the first time that I really experienced the fantasy New
York in media, the sort of the adult New York,

(20:13):
the non you know, Broadway new York. I feel like
there comes a time like you and I are kind
of breaking down the difference between the fantasy New York
right and the real version. And I feel like, I
think the first time you go to New York, it
is kind of immediately demystified, and then when you live
in New York after like the first like year or two.

(20:34):
It's completely demystified, like it's all over. Like I remember
my first trip to New York was I think probably
to see Wicked for something. My dad took me and
my cousin. I don't remember much of the trip much
like you, but I do remember like stepping off of
a train or something in Times Square and then just

(20:57):
getting that wave of like hot garbage, cigarettes, piss, and
halal food smell, you know what I mean? That Like
Time Square just smells like and it's not this if
you you know, have grown up with the Emerald City
version of New York. That's not what you think. You
don't know what it smells like, right, And that like wave,
the immediate immersion into what is like the worst part

(21:19):
of New York City was something that I was just like, oh,
this is New York. Like I was probably an interesting
fifth grade or something, because because we always came here
when I was a kid in the winter, because I
grew up in Florida, so we always wanted to be
here when it was cold because we didn't have that,
And so that was I never experienced like hot, piss,

(21:43):
garbage New York until I was and maybe until I
lived here because I came here a lot in high
school for either school trips or my older brother moved
here after college, and I came and stayed with him
a couple of times, but again it was always in
the winter. There was one memorable time when he was

(22:05):
living in Chelsea in a studio apartment and I came
and stayed with him, and he worked at He worked
in the what is now the Viacom building, and he
got me into TRL, and I went to TRL in
high school. I know nothing about TRL because I didn't
grow up with cable, but I do know that that's
a big deal. It was a big deal. Do you remember,

(22:25):
And I was like guesting or if there any no
but I did go to the Billabong store downstairs and
bought some flip flops. Oh of course she did. Yes. Um.
I don't remember anything else that I did in my
first trips. I remember getting lost in like a kind
of pre not pre gentrification Brooklyn, but like the Williamsburg

(22:46):
that does not exist now, you know, like it was
still before you know, Silicon Valley and all these business
ros moved there. I mean, I remember the first time
I went to Williamsburg when I was a friend Ashman
in college. You know. So this is two thousand and six,
and we went to Union Pool and I just remember

(23:08):
like feeling like the walk from the L train too.
Union Pool was like so long and scared. I was like,
where are we? We left the bar and went to
someone's apartment a couple of blocks away, and I was
like where Because I at that time I was living
on the Upper East Side, so it was so foreign
to me, and it just felt incredibly lawless. And we

(23:30):
were in someone's like loft department. I was like, what
the fuck you kind of are giving carry right now?
Non or like honestly, like any New York housewife, that's
like they want us to go to Brooklyn. Oh my god,
but um, you are in high school. I'm in lorn.
I mean you bring up a good point, which is
that my early trips here before I lived here, it

(23:52):
was all about the very touristy parts of New York,
seeing Broadway shows, going to you know, Chinatown to get food,
going to places like Fao Schwartz. I used to love
going to um, going to Jacqueline Hide. Have you ever
been to Jacqueline Hide? Don't even know what that? Oh
my god, it's a theme restaurant that's like spooky. It's

(24:15):
like a rainforest cafe Planet Hollywood. Yeah, but they have
like shows and it's like spooky vibes. So it was fun,
very fun. What about when you like finally moved here,
like do you like digging into I guess our mythologies
as you said, like what is there? Like do you
remember like first impressions of like because when you move

(24:37):
move here, it's a different it's a different thing. Yeah, well,
you know, moving here from you know, I moved here
at eighteen for college, and it is crazy that the
that the first place where I had complete freedom to

(24:58):
do whatever I want with no supervision was New York City.
You know you kind of did that through your whole childhood.
But okay, yeah that's no. But I mean no, I
know what you're saying. My mom like dropped me off
at my dorm and then went home, and then I
could walk out of my dorm and go and go
anywhere in New York City. And I did, and I

(25:19):
got into a lot of trouble. I did a lot
of stupid shit. It is really crazy to drop a
teenager off in you know, the this city where you
can do anything at any time and be like, okay,
figure it out. Do you look back at this like
ther first few years fondly or is it so absolutely okay?

(25:42):
Good good? Because you you were saying, like I did
a lot of stuff, stupid shit, I got in trouble.
No that was that was yeah, okay, good, good good,
because I think that you have to come to the
city and make a lot of mistakes, like you have
to be you have to get in trouble. You have
to um, meet the wrong people, follow love with the
wrong people, like go to the wrong party, like you know, um,

(26:04):
I think that some of my more visceral moments like
that are like, you know, I used to host I've
said this in the pub before. I used to host
like a terrible party at Union Essex that was cocktail
tire And I remember like sitting on the last step
at the jay Z metro stop like in a suit,
like barfing and like someone getting me into a cab

(26:26):
and like I lost my shoes or like something like that.
It's just like I think messie knights like that are
you know, they stick in your mind because it's like
when you're experiencing it in real time, it's not like, um,
oh I'm in trouble. It's oh, I'm in trouble in
New York City, Yes, right, And that I think feels
bigger and scarier, but it makes your freedom. The New

(26:49):
York is what I've always thought is New York is
a place of limitless possibilities. Yeah, anything can happen at
any time, and it will and it does. And that
has true been my experience of it. Um, what are
all the different neighborhoods you've lived in here? I've lived
in uh So, I went to I moved to New

(27:09):
York for a graduate certificate program at NYU and briefly
lived in Grammercy in a dorm. Moved to Williamsburg and
then South Williamsburg um like the hasidic part of Williamsburg,
and was there for three years. And now I live
I moved to like redacted. Right, we're not going to

(27:32):
say where we live, right, right. I moved to Crown
Heights and now I'm in another another neighborhood. I mean,
I'm in beds, an undisclosed location. Everyone knows I'm in beds.
Diet It's fine. It's a big neighborhood. When I moved
to New York for college in two thousand and six,
which is the year after the Devilors product came out,
so you know, I was really feeling myself. Um. I

(27:55):
lived my dorm was in Midtown, Okay, and then after
that I moved to the Upper east side of the
edge of Spanish Harlem. My first New York apartment was
on Fifth Avenue. So when we walked out the front
door of our building, Central Park was right there and
it ended a block up, so that was really nice.

(28:17):
I lived there for through the rest of college. Was
it chic being on the upper upper It was not
the way we lived in that apartment was not cheek.
Nothing chic about it. Um. And then I lived on
the Lower east Side in a two bedroom apartment with
four other people. O god, are those are my crackhead days?
And then I was one of the early Bushwick gentrifiers.

(28:40):
I moved truly. I moved to Bushwick in two thousand. Oh. Well, no,
I briefly lived in Chinatown, which I actually loved. That
also sounds cheek. Um, it was chic. And then I
moved to Bushwick. And then I lived in Bushwick for
eight years until I moved until I moved to LA

(29:02):
and then moved back here and now I live and
beepy Okay, I for a while you you kind of
really wanted to be a Manhattan girly. You were like,
I think I want to live in Manhattan. Yeah, I
do think that at some point in my life perhaps
I will want to live in Manhattan again. I always
my fantasy, for sure was West Village, always growing up.

(29:26):
Once I found out that that's where Carrie's actual apartment was,
it's well, it's on Perry Street if you've never been,
and like every a list of celebrity whatever, Julianne Moore,
Meryl Street. But I always wanted to live in a
brownstone in the West Village. But then when I was
in my early freelancing days, I went to interview lev Grossman,

(29:53):
who is the author of The Magicians, which I think
I've talked about on the show before, and I went
to interview him at his house in this beautiful brownstone
that he lived in in the neighborhood that I currently
live in. And I remember thinking when I went to
interview him and we hung out his house, we like
drank a bunch of whiskey, and I remember thinking this

(30:14):
is the life I want. I want to live in
this neighborhood one day, and now I live a couple
blocks away from there, and so it is like very
much like I have finally the aversion of the New
York life that I really imagined myself having a long
time ago. Honestly, same with my apartment. I truly I'm

(30:35):
like living in the apartment of my dreams, a very
expensive apartment of my dreams that like I want to
live in forever. Your apartment as well, again not telling
where it is. Your apartment is a forever apartment. It is.
So it's definitely I think this is the last apartment
that I want to rent. I think I will move

(30:56):
when I'm ready. I mean, who knows when this will happen,
when I'm ready to buy something, hopefully in a couple
of years. That's even something we're able to do by
property in New York. But it is, it's not it's
not the apartment of my dreams, but it's definitely something
that I always fantasized about, which is aloft in New

(31:18):
York City, And that is what I have now, and
it is it is a certain kind of fantasy. We
are honestly being so unrelatable talking about like a renting
our one bedrooms in cute little neighborhoods. But like we
have the virgins have to know, like we came from
the bottom, we've lived scum like well, I mean I
just said I lived in a two bedroom partment with

(31:39):
four other people. And this is how it worked. So
in each of the bedrooms there was a loft in
each of them. So one person's bed was in the loft,
and one person's bed was on the floor, and then
our fifth, the fifth person in the apartment, her bedroom,
her her bed, her loft was in the living room
above the refrigeration. And we lived on Rivington and Clinton,

(32:03):
which you know is like a very gaggy intersection. And
we all paid five hundred dollars a month that is
parais like, and like it didn't matter that we were
all sleeping on top of each other because this was
the time in my life when I was like out
every night every day. I was like partying all the time.

(32:24):
If I was home, we were having a party there
or just like sleeping or whatever. You know. That was
my my young wild days. Although like pre my wild
party girl days, this was my wild straight partying days
when I would just like party with my straight friends

(32:45):
and then like go out and hook up with randas
all the time. Oh my god, that was that fun
or not? Yeah, it was fun, you know, it was living.
I was like sewing my wild oats, Like that's the
apartment where I did. I turned twenty one. It was
like right after I turned twenty one, So it was
like New York was my oyster. I feel like it
has to. You have to hit the ground running in

(33:08):
New York. You have to live paycheck to paycheck. New
York has to be your oyster to some extent. I
one of my I think my first year in New York,
I had like eleven addresses in like one year. Like
I was just moving and moving and moving and moving.
I remember subletting a place in Williamsburg for six hundred
dollars a month that had no windows, none. It was

(33:29):
like so awful, but like you know, you're just happy
to be there and you it's a make it work.
It's always a make it work moment. When I first
moved to New York, I actually slept on the couch
of someone that I met on Tumblr. Isn't that amazing? Yeah,
Like Umbler really brings people together, and honestly, it was
I will be so grateful for this as like my

(33:51):
induction to New York, or rather the inductor like indoctrinating
me into New York in my first few weeks, because
he was a more crunchy like artist Williamsburg type, and
so he showed me those parts of New York, like
he took me to Reespeech, he took me to again. Yeah,
I love Reespeach. We have opposite of I. Um, you know,

(34:14):
he took me to Metropolitan. I saw. I had never
seen a drag show before he showed me. My first
drag show was I'm pretty sure my first drag show
was severely mame. Oh, that's I think a really good
I think that's a really good first show. And I
just didn't really know what drag was. But I think
that when you can because a lot and I think

(34:35):
a lot of the reasons that I didn't know what
it was because of my background, but also like drag
is something that isn't really good on a video. You
have to be in person to see what it feels like.
And I think that that you know, said a lot
about the kind of New York that I was attracted
to and immediately found myself inside of. You know, it's

(34:55):
like the space is being in a drag performance. So

(35:15):
we talked about how we kind of now have achieved
a sort of real life version of the New York
that we fantasized about. But was there a moment for
you when your real life experience of being here really
clashed with the fantasy New York, Like, do you remember

(35:37):
a moment of that, like fantasy New York kind of
shattering for you? My Jone didion goodbye to all that momentum.
I'm the first one that comes to mind is when
my first boyfriend in New York broke up with me.
It's the only time I've ever been broken up with
And I just remember like crying on a bus, like

(36:00):
leaving Park Slope. Crying on a bus is so humiliating.
And then as I was getting off the bus, still crying,
I fell eight shitt like got like scuffed my knees
was like covered in blood and like crying, and it
was just it was a low moment for a lot
of different reasons, because you know, career stuff was always stressful,

(36:22):
boy stuff was stressful, trying to pay rent, was stressful,
and I think it. Yeah, everyone has a kind of
boiling point or a moment where it's just like, oh fuck,
like what am I doing? But you know it didn't
last that long. What about you? I think for me
it actually was that first time I went to Brooklyn,
because I think it wasn't necessarily a negative experience. It

(36:44):
was just a realization that the city was so much
bigger than what I had imagined it as or what
or what the version that had been sold to me was, Like,
New York City was not just Time Square, Chinatown and
Bloomingdale's and Central Park. Um, there was There were all

(37:06):
these other boroughs and they were full of real people
living their lives. You just reminded me that my very
first New York tip, when I was in fifth grade,
I did make pilgrimage to the Balto statue in Central Park. Wow,
did you? I was not. I have always wanted to
piss on um. The imagine hippies would be so mad

(37:32):
at you. I love making hippies mad. No, I would
love to piss on the Balto statue. Um Balto was hot?
Can we say that? We can say that? Um? So
we both have left New York I've left New York
a couple of times, but I think them we both did, like,
you know, the real leaving New York when we moved

(37:54):
to Los Angeles. Um the weekend before I moved, which
was in Covid Um, so obviously like New York wasn't
exactly what it was. But it was June twenty twenty,
so things were kind of starting to to come back. Um.
My best friend did rent a cart so we could

(38:14):
do a goodbye tour of New York. And remember you
talking about Yeah, so the stops for my goodbye tour
were I believe we we maybe got bagels in the
morning and then went to Central Park. I went to
the Alice in Wonderland statue, which I love. Um. Then

(38:35):
we drove we drove over to the gershwin Um, which
is the theater where Wick it is, just to like
wave and say hi, um so Gorney. Then we virgins
don't know, I mean not all the reasons know. You
are a corny girl. I am a very I'm Carrie Broadshaw.
You are carry um. Then we drove downtown and went

(38:56):
to CATS's and got Cornbee sandwiches. Was having I had
what she was having, um and then we went to
the West Village, went to Carry's apartment and all the
picture it took a video, and also there is a
video of us singing of us singing the Sex and
the City theme song outside Carry's apartment. Then I think

(39:16):
we went we went to Magnolia Bakery and got cupcakes,
even though Magnolia is not the best cupcakes in the city,
real ones, no Billy's Bakery, which I don't even know
if it still exists. Nobody thinks Magnolia is good. Magnolia
is not good. Cupcakes are bad, cupcakes are delicious. This
is the first wrong. This was my first wrong take
on like a virgin. I remember when I told you that,

(39:37):
you were like, what the fuck are you talking about?
But cupcakes are just not good. They don't make sense
to me. Did you do any sort of Goodbye New
York tour when you left? No, you're you're not sentimental
about stuff like that. I you know, it depends the
context of my leaving New York was like very fraught
and you know, very different from yours. I left York

(40:00):
when I wasn't really ready to. I was in love
with my Brooklyn fam. I was in love with drag
here I was. I felt like I had just gotten
a kind of new momentum in New York, and all
of a sudden, I had this job in La lined
up for me, and it was something that I felt
like I couldn't pass up. And so I was like,
you know, I can do this and come back to
Brooklyn every month. And I kind of, I mean, when

(40:21):
it wasn't a pandemic, like I kind of did. So
it never felt as much like a goodbye, but no, yeah,
my goodbye was pretty much like I sent an email
to like all my loved ones and that and like
and I was just like I'm so sorry, like this
job is happening an immediate immediately and I have to
go now, and it was. It was actually really sad.
But I think that there's a lot of like drama

(40:42):
and a lot of Joe Diddy and goodbye to all
that energy when it comes to like leaving New York,
that like I didn't want to participate in because I
was just like, I'm not leaving, like I know, New
York is my final destination. This is like a goodbye
for now, you know. And I was sad to leave it.
I really was, even though I appreciate the break, and

(41:02):
everyone I think needs breaks from New York. I felt
the same way. I knew that it was a goodbye
for now. I said to everyone that I was leaving
with the intention of coming back. But it did feel
to me like the end of an era, a very
long era, because I lived. But when I left, I

(41:22):
had lived in New York for fourteen years, just a
really long fucking time. You know. It was like my
whole adulthood took place here, and I just felt like
that time of my life was over. I was ready to,
you know, move into the next part of my life
and my career. I thought that was in LA, and

(41:44):
like in certain ways it was. But then deciding to
come back, you know, I always knew I was going
to come back New York. I get the same as you.
New York does feel like home. I do consider myself
a New Yorker. I always knew I would be back here.
I just thought I would be in LA for longer.

(42:04):
But I felt like I was in LA for too long,
like maybe like six months too long. But it also,
I mean, the pandemic skewed so much of it, like
I was basically one year, like I was in Los
Angeles for just under two and a half years. It
went by so quickly, and it feels like but it
feels like I was there for no time at all.

(42:24):
And I know that that's not actually that long of
a time, but I I just felt this place calling
me back. And I do think that most of the
people I know who are New Yorkers, like it's not
about the time that they've spent here. I do think

(42:45):
like there is a call that you hear that tells
you you need to be here, and when you find
your place, I think that's when you're a New Yorker.
I agree, it's when you find your people, like you
find your subculture. And yeah, that's so true. I think

(43:05):
it's something that honestly separates like New Yorkers from people
that move to Los Angeles or any other cities. Like
if you move to New York, it's like because you
you know who you are and you're waiting for like
everyone to like discover you right like you you're you're
you have bought into like who you are as a
person and everything that makes you great, and you're like,

(43:27):
I'm just waiting for everyone to like catch up with me.
You know what, I mean, and I think that there's
so much power in that like New York ambition that
like lets you, as we've been talking about, like manifest,
tryanifest your dreams and really create the job that you want,
create the world that you want, like anything you want.

(43:48):
There's also you have to be a masochist if you
want to live here. Yeah, you do, because it's so
hard to survive here, and the feeling of accomplishment you
get from you know, if you can make it here,
you can make it anywhere. It's so corny. But the
reason why all of these sayings, why like all of

(44:08):
those like corny, these ideas about New York are so enduring,
is because ultimately they're true. You have to hustle so
hard to survive here. It's like an extra job on
top of whatever it is you do is just you know,
making it, and once you have accomplished that, it does

(44:30):
really feel like doing that anywhere else is so easy
and like you feel like a big fish anywhere else. Yeah,
I mean that sounds so kind of sending, but it's
like it is kind of true. It's it's I think
that it can be a bad and a good thing,
and you know, being being back here, it just feels
so much different. I feel like a grown up in

(44:54):
a way that I didn't the last time I was here.
And I just like, um, you know, like in season
five of Sex in the City, when Carrie said that
she was dating New York. M that's how I feel.
I'm like falling in love with with um New York again.
And and uh and ain't nobody talking shit about my boyfriend? Yeah,

(45:15):
Carrie says in that episode, New York is like a
little bit of like an abusive boyfriend. Though, like New
York will like, don't cancel us, We're saying, New York
will absolutely like just like you know, fuck your brains
out and like make you feel amazing and then wake
up the next morning and like you know, kick you
in the nerds or like you know, make fun of
you in front of your friends or whatever. You know,
it's the chicest thing you can do in New York

(45:36):
that you don't really do anymore. And I miss it
so much. Hailing a cab a taxi just she's stepping
out onto a curb, like pointing your toe, lifting your
arm up in the air. I miss that era of
New because now it's all Ubers and like you can't
you you know, I moved here in the way of

(46:00):
sex in the city, like the Devil Worst Product, Ugly
Betty was on the air, like I was living that fantasy.
I was like, I mean, I was not living that
fantasy because I was like broke, I was not a
woman yet whatever. But I still have many moments of
stepping onto the curb and hilling my little taxi. How

(46:22):
do you feel about like in this Emerald City kind
of version of New York. This is a city that
a lot of people come to to be surrounded by
more queer people, right to experience nightlife, to experience drag,
to experience whatever it is queer and trance people do here,
which is a lot of different shit. Do you feel like,
you know, people in small towns or people that aren't

(46:43):
in New York like should move here? Do you think
that like being here, making it here is something that's
like unlike any other Like what would you say to
someone that's thinking about moving to New York? I mean,
I don't think it's for everyone agree, and usually you
will find that out within the first year. I used

(47:04):
to have a rule that I didn't date or become
friends with anyone who hadn't lived here for at least
a year yet, because they I saw so many people
who just didn't make it that first year, and I
didn't want to get attached. And also that first year
is so crazy fresh New York. It is a vibe

(47:26):
the very specific type of person yea, And I just
like was very hardline about that, especially with dating. I'm
going on I'm going on dates with someone who's a
fresh New Yorker right now. Well, good luck with that. Um.
But it really again like if you hear, if you
hear the call, if you feel like you're meant to

(47:47):
be here, um, definitely try it out. But only if
you have like three thousand dollars. Yeah, Like at the
very least, Unfortunately a lot of it is about money.
It's it's about honestly, it's about having a portal. If
that's money, if that's a friend who you can crash with,

(48:08):
or who will you know, like show you around the city,
if that's having family here, chosen, biological, whatever. I think
a portal is very important. And for some people that
portal really just is believing this is the place they
were always meant to be and they figured out I
know so many people like that, who like Madonna who
moved here with thirty seven dollars in her pocket whatever,

(48:32):
and just make it work. And if you if you
feel the call to that extent, like, absolutely do it.
But do you think you need a job to move
here before you come here? It definitely helps, Yeah, it
definitely helps. I don't think you do. I think job
opportunities create themselves when you, you know, show up at

(48:54):
parties and meet people and stuff like that. But um,
if you're moving here, I definitely would say, like, do
like a stint here first, like have a summer here,
or have a month here, or like crash with a friend,
find like a cheap living situation where you can sublet
and just experience New York for a quick moment. You'll

(49:15):
experience all the magical parts of New York, but you
have to pay attention to the things that are like
wearing you down and see how much longevity that has because,
just as you said, I, when you move here, if
you've been living here for a few years, New York
is at some point going to break your spirit and
absolutely and after it does the first time, which it

(49:37):
might multiple times, but after it does the first time.
It's up to you to decide whether it's worth it
to continue. And I think that sometimes it's just too much,
and you're like, this is actually not my vibe, But
I do you used to be. I feel like now
that you don't have to front three months rent in
New York anymore, you can really move here with like
three or four grand, you know, if you're finding roommates

(49:58):
and stuff. But like I think you should have like five.
You should save up like five thousand dollars. Like I
think when I moved here, I had saved up four
thousand dollars. I don't remember, but that's like very specific. Yeah,
I you know, if I'm going off of I'm going
off of more vibes than than capital vibes. You know,

(50:37):
what is the most New York moment ever? And I
might have talked about this before, So Charlotte, friend of
the podcast, Charlene, She and I have been friends for
a long time, and I so Charlene. I think it's
like ten years ago now is when she started doing
drag and she and I became friends. We like saw

(51:00):
each other out at TNT a lot and became the
first gay bar I ever went to in New York. Um, yeah,
and became friendly. And then one night at the Spectrum,
the original Spectrum, we were like standing around chatting and
she said, you know that I'm and she said her

(51:23):
dead name, and oh, and it was because she and
I had lived in that apartment on the Lower Side
where I lived in a two bedroom with four other people.
She had lived above me pre transition, both when both
of us were pre transition, And that was one of

(51:44):
those like circular New York moments where I realized this
person who was becoming very important with my life, she
and I had known each other on this whole other
point on our timelines, like like at least like two
lives ago from the point where we were now, and

(52:04):
you know, this is a person who is still one
of my closest friends. And that is like such a
New York moment to me. It's like realizing that the
people around you are having these experiences that are running
parallel to yours, that intersect with yours, and you can
be like a point on each other's timelines, and like

(52:27):
sometimes you change in the same ways, and like it's
crazy that like a person who, who, like you used
to think was just like the annoying. You know, neighbor
who lives upstairs, like a couple years later is your
like best trans girlfriend. So I'm like, oh no, that's
kind of beautiful. It is beautiful. I have like a
similar but very different story where one of the first

(52:51):
gay bars I ever went to. I don't know if
this was T T and T or not, but my
first week in New York, I was taken to a
gay bar where I saw my like high school arch nemesis,
like someone who had bullied me like in this like
dangerous like gay love triangle through my whole high school career.
And I remember seeing him out at a bar and

(53:12):
being like, oh my god. You know, when you moved
to New York, you come to like reinvent yourself a
little bit, if that's not too cliche to say, you
leave behind whatever you were before New York so you
can just be your New York self. And so when
I saw him at this bar, remember being like, oh
my god, like you're just thrown back into the person
you used to be for the lack of a better

(53:32):
way of putting it, And I remember he pulled me
aside and was like, Oh, it's so good to see you. Know,
I have to tell you, I'm like so sorry for
like how I acted all those years ago. It was
like not it was like this like perfect apology, like
just apologizing for all this like trauma that he had
put me through or whatever. And I just remember thinking
like I don't care, like I don't care about you,

(53:53):
like you have nothing to do with my life anymore.
And that is so much. That is so far away
now and we are like our ships asking in the
wind in this gay bar and then never I never
saw him again. Is like we're in our new lives
and like it felt so great for someone who used
to torment me to actually like mean nothing in that space.
You know. I think that there are a lot of

(54:14):
quote unquote the most New York moments ever are moments
where I'm in a bar, or in a club or
at dinner and I'm sitting there and I think, oh
my god, I'm at dinner with blah blah blah blah
blah blah blah blah blah, and like one of them
is like a celebrity and the other one is like
someone who have I've idolized online forever, or like I
remember I used to reblog images that that person took

(54:35):
or like I like you're you're my idol and you didn't.
You don't even know how much I stand you, and
like we're friends now or whatever. Like you get to
be friends with your heroes here, And I don't really
mean celebrity heroes. I just mean like the artists that
you know, you admire and the people that you want
to be in community with. Yes, but let's be real.
The realist New York moments are when you cry on

(54:59):
the subway or see someone's dick on the subway, or
see someone's shit on the subway. Oh not shit? Yeah,
oh no, or when you have sex on the subway.
Yeah you haven't. No, I've always wanted to. No. Yeah, Wow, Wow,

(55:20):
that is that's the real New York Baby New Yeah Que.
Wendy Williams cover of New York Que Lady Gaga's cover
of New York, New York. Have you ever seen that?
It's from there's this um Frank Sinatra special that she
covered New York, New York and it is an incredibly
iconic performance. I want to see that slide into our

(55:49):
DMS at like a Virgin for twenty sixty nine to
let us know Are you a New Yorker? Are you
a native New Yorker? What are your very first New
York stories? And um, you know? Follow us on Instagram,
follow us individually. I'm your co host Rose Damue. You
can follow me anywhere you want online at Rose Damu
and you can find me Fran at France Squishco anywhere
you want. Like a virgin is i Heeartradio Production. Our

(56:10):
producer is Phoebe Unter, with support from Lindsay Hoffman and
Nikki Iatore. See you next week, Visions. Bye,