March 21, 2023 • 16 mins
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
As a man entered the chat counting crows house. I
guess I'm really inclusive of you to have men on
your list. She's sheen a me no name, not my name? Yo,
yo yo? What is your childhood mother? Yo? Like going
(00:26):
down before like us. So welcome to Like a Virgin,
the show where we give yesterday's pop culture today's takes.
I'm Rose Damn you, and I'm Fran Toronto and this
(00:47):
is our first ever Patreon exclusive bonus episode World Remembers, Like,
what can the Virgins kind of expect from our Patreon Well, Fran, Funny,
you should ask. Funny, you should ask. We are going
to be doing stuff that is still sort of around
(01:11):
the conceit of the show, Like we are going to
be doing deep dives into formative pop culture that we love,
but I think it's going to be a little more structured.
We'll revisit topics we've already covered, and then we're going
to do things that are a little bit more free
form and like more intimate. We'll be doing like chit
chatty episodes. And then also Patren is going to be
(01:33):
the official home of Rosa's book Corner. Yes, the music. Yes,
so you'll be able to come here if you are
following along with what I'm reading and hear us talk
about it. And the part that is at the end
of this episode with Tommy Dorfman is exclusive to Patreon.
It will not be airing in the episode that eventually
(01:54):
goes up with Tommy. Also, we might have some Patron
exclusive guests like producer Phoebe. Yeah, Phoebe's being very mommy dummy.
Phoebe wants all of her commentary behind a paywalls. That's
what she likes. So today we're going to start off
with something that you've been sliding into our DMS about.
We're going to discuss the season finale of The Last
(02:17):
of Us and sort of just the way the season
wrapped up, because I don't think you and I have
really checked in about it in a bit. Well, let's
be clear, yesterday I tried to talk about the season
finale of the Last of Us and you said save
it for the Patriots. Listen, we already we already talk
so much that sometimes it's best to keep things fresh
(02:41):
on air. No important context, honestly, is that Rose and
I had been working very hard for like an uninterrupted
three hours on our season two announcement and everything that
by the time you left, I was like, get out
of my house, Get out of my house. I was
like literally sitting on the couch reading fan fiction waiting
for you to leave. It must also be said that
(03:02):
you are you were waiting to get your backbroke. Um. Um.
I was not waiting to get my backbroke. I was
waiting to break someone else's back, which I did. Um.
But that's neither here nor there. Another that's another thing
you might get, Yeah, exclusive is our sex sock about
our sex lives because I only feel comfortable talking about
(03:23):
that behind a paywall because honestly some I love the
virgins and especially the rosebuds, but sometimes the things you
ask for, Um, let's just check ourselves when it comes
to the parasocial relationships, girly, And that's the thing is
like Rose would love Rose, and I would love to
(03:44):
respond to like the dms. We would love to respond
to all the mentions. Um. But if you subscribe to
our Patreon it is a great way. Or if you're
already here, if you've arrived, um, it is a great
way to get our attention faster, quicker, better, right, Yes,
by paying for it So let's talk about the Last
of Us finale. M what did you feel generally about
(04:08):
the end of the season From the storm Read flashback
episode on as much? Okay, from storm Read phenomen loved
Bella's kind of queer backstory. What's the character's name again, Ellie?
Ellie Love Ellie's queer backstory. Um, maybe the most heartbreaking episode,
(04:31):
I think, And I also obviously the Baby Girl episode transcendent.
I mean, when we when we have arrived on the
scene and we now understand the full arc of the
word baby girl and why Pedro has decided to kind
of finally adopt her as her daughter. The energy in
the finale like really shifted for me, Like their father
(04:54):
daughter dynamic was like uninhibited and clear, and I did
enjoy this kind of like shift from beginning to end.
The finale was really unsatisfactory to me. It was dramatically wonderful,
it was complex. I liked the themes that it brought up,
but like it was forty three minutes and I was like,
and when they finally got to their you know, spoiler,
(05:16):
to their sanctuary, I was like, okay, like give me
another ten minutes. I just wanted another ten minutes, you
know what I mean. Yeah, and we do have to
say spoilers obviously for the last of US finale the
whole season. I get what you mean. I do also
think the finale could have been a little bit longer,
(05:37):
but I really appreciated the way that it wrapped up
the story so succinctly, and it was very sparse in
a way. I really enjoyed the back half of the season.
I did feel like there was a lull around the
(05:57):
middle of the season, and um, I didn't even like
the flashback episode was good for me, but I wasn't
obsessed with it like it was. It was fun, but
I also it wasn't like it wasn't a standout to
me in the way that you know, like the gay
(06:18):
episode was. Um. I really liked the penultimate episode and like,
obviously like the baby Girl moment is great, but for me,
I really liked even more than that, how creepy it
was Ellie being captured and then see her having to
(06:40):
save herself and be really competent through you know, kind
of her own wiles and also the skills that she's
picked up from Joel and how you know, like Joel
is presented as this very like capable killing machine who's
like very emotionless by the time he meets Ellie, and
(07:03):
he obviously has like instilled a little bit of that
in her, but you see at the end of that
episode how much it costs her to be like him,
and I think that's kind of the place that she's
at in the beginning of the finale, where like you
clearly see that some of the spark that she had
has died a little bit, and she almost like kind
(07:24):
of gets it back a little bit. This scene with
the giraffes was very cute, and then they start like
looking in her punbook again, and then they're captured and
it's it's all downhill from there, and also is very
from what I've read, like that is exactly what happens
in the video game. And I also felt like that
(07:46):
whole episode it's never felt more like an adaptation of
a video game, not in a negative way, but like
when he's like going on his murders breathe throughout the hospital,
you know, shooting people and then like making their guns
to use, like that's very video game, you know, And
so it really does put you in like the space
(08:07):
of this like first person shooter game and it's I
don't know. There's been a lot of discourse online about
how about the morality of what Joel does and like
if he should if he's like dooming the world, you know,
for one person, blah blah blah. I don't know where
do you stand on all of that. I I mean,
I loved what was lifted from the video game. I
(08:29):
the giraffes from the video game, like even I was
watching like um some like side by side of the
video game and the finale, and even the line where
he when he kills the Firefly leader damn, what's her name?
I can't remember when he kills Marlene on the floor
in cold Blood and it's like you just come after her,
(08:51):
like oh, that to me was maybe the darkest point
of Pedro's killing spree. And I think I liked how
complex it was. I like that he's a killing machine.
I like that we don't get this kind of like
morally perfect ending. I just wish it wasn't the finale
because that's so much suspended tension to put into the
(09:15):
final episode and and in the in the episodes, like
final minutes when Ellie says, promise me that this is true,
and he lies to her face and you see in
Ellie's face that she just kind of she doesn't believe
him at first, and then she just like kind of
forces herself to believe him. It's just a lot of
(09:39):
ikey feeling for for like how I wanted to feel,
I guess in the end, and you know that's that's fine.
I honestly don't mind feeling that way. I just like
wish that we as I said, how did denoument? You
know what I mean? I wanted a little like ten
minutes to like ramp down, or I wanted a completely
new conflict like come in and Cliffhanger us U. Yeah.
(10:01):
But in terms of like the morality, I you know,
it's kind of I just I think it's really interesting
because like where does what does what function does morality
have in the apocalypse? What function do ethics have in
the apocalypse when there are so few of us? When
the fight for humanity is such a different game. I
(10:24):
did find myself asking a lot of questions just about
like what I would do in that situation and how
I would feel. I don't know, what, like did you feel,
would you would you go on the killing spree? To
save Ellie or do you think Ellie Do you think
Ellie believed him? I don't think Ellie believed him, but
I think that she has to tell herself that she does.
(10:46):
You know, the question of would you sacrifice someone you
loved to save the world. I I'm not going to
say it's something I've been thinking about, but I did
just finish rewatching Buffy. And that is a question that
gets brought up on several occasions, notably for Buffy in
season two when she has to kill Angel, who she's
(11:07):
in love with, to save the world, and then in
season five she is challenged to kill her sister to
save the world and won't do it, and then a
season later she gets to the point where she says,
you know, or two seasons later she says, if this
happened now, I would kill her to save the world.
(11:28):
Obviously very different circumstances, like Buffy's like a character who's
like literally been chosen by some kind of power to
be like a warrior for good. It's like and this
is and Joel is just like some guy. I don't know.
For me, I it just I think it's like you
(11:50):
have to you have to take a lot on faith
to even make that a realistic question, because it's like, Okay,
this doctor who's doing the surgery, do I actually trust
that he can take Ellie's brain and create a you know,
a vaccine and actually disseminate it to the entire world
(12:13):
and like cure the zombie virus. Like I don't know,
given everything that I've been told about this world over
the last however many episodes, like I don't know that
that's true, and like will that erase what has been
done to humanity and what humanity has done to itself
in the apocalypse, Like I don't know that a vaccine
(12:34):
is necessarily going to save the world, So why should
this fourteen year old girl be sacrificed for it? And
also like you know, Marlene says, you know, don't take
this choice away from her, but like Ellie didn't choose this,
Like she's you know, prepped. They make it very clear
that she's prepped for surgery, not knowing that she's going
(12:55):
to die. I'm sure maybe like could have crossed her mind,
but she doesn't know that she's you know, sacrificing herself
to save the world. So I don't know. It's like
it's the trolley problem. You know, it's just like a
different version of the trolley problem, which, if anyone knows,
is this sort of philosophical exercise about this very thing.
Clang clang, clang, clang, clang, clang, went the trolley. Yes,
(13:18):
sing Ding ding went the bell? Is that how it goes?
Zing zing zingg went my heart strings? Yeah, and the
kind of when I saw him, I fell. And the
moral quandary of that idea really is about the clang.
It's it's about the clang and whether whether you identify
as a clang or whether you identify as a ding.
You know, somewhere along on that spectrum is really is
(13:41):
the hearted issue? Are you a clang? You know? I
you know, I have been thinking about being Judy Garland
and meet me in Saint Louis for Halloween. I love
it your about in March. The wig would have to
be so right, it would have to be exact. You
wouldn't need a wig. You could just get extensions. I
know I wouldn't. No, girl, I want to I want
(14:03):
something I can take off like a hat. Okay, as
whatever you want, whatever you wish, okay. So like generally,
where do you stand on the last of us. Now
that the season is over, are you excited for a
season two? Obviously? I feel like there's no other response,
like it's it's just we want more and more and more,
and I can't really wait for more for more. Um So.
(14:26):
In the meantime, I've been watching The Mandalorian, which, um,
I a girl like this. This show is great. I mean,
Padri needs to take off his helmet like eventually, but like, yeah,
so so people have been talking about how the show
is great for about three years now, yeah you are.
I don't like catching up, you know, I haven't heard
(14:47):
anyone coming to the conversation very late. I don't know.
I haven't really heard any discourse or or anything about it,
like no, no, no fave characters like yeah, I haven't,
I haven't. I haven't seen any of that. I feel
like this is, you know, a great A great take
is that The Mandalorian is good? Right? So, I don't
(15:07):
know if all of you have seen this meme that's
been going around of people defining themselves by eight albums
eight albums to get to know me? Yes, um Fran
and I both did it. You can find our responses
on our respective twitters, but while we were recording an
episode with Tommy Dorfman that will be coming out in
(15:30):
a couple of weeks, we asked Tommy to share eight
albums that she defines herself by, and she did it
very quickly on the spot. Not a lot of curation
in the way that I did it. Girl Mine took
like I mean, I thought about it for like an hour.
I like left it in the draft. I came back
to it like it was kind of a it was
quite a moral condrey. Yeah, so, um, we're gonna hear
(15:54):
Tommy's eight albums and then also some lingering thoughts she
had about the oscars and yeah, we're so excited that
you are listening to our first Patreon episode and you're
going to get so much exciting content like this, without
further ado, here is a snippet of our an exclusive
snippet of our convo with Tommy Dorphins screech. So this
(16:25):
is the end of your little teaser preview of our
very first Patreon exclusive bonus episode. To get any more content,
we're kind of have to go over to Patreon dot
com slash like a virgin and subscribe. That's Patreon dot
com slash like a virgin type. It right in babies
As a man entered the chat counting crows house. I
guess I'm really inclusive of you to have men on
your list. She's sheen a me no name, not my name? Yo,
yo yo? What is your childhood mother? Yo? Like going
(00:26):
down before like us. So welcome to Like a Virgin,
the show where we give yesterday's pop culture today's takes.
I'm Rose Damn you, and I'm Fran Toronto and this
(00:47):
is our first ever Patreon exclusive bonus episode World Remembers, Like,
what can the Virgins kind of expect from our Patreon Well, Fran, Funny,
you should ask. Funny, you should ask. We are going
to be doing stuff that is still sort of around
(01:11):
the conceit of the show, Like we are going to
be doing deep dives into formative pop culture that we love,
but I think it's going to be a little more structured.
We'll revisit topics we've already covered, and then we're going
to do things that are a little bit more free
form and like more intimate. We'll be doing like chit
chatty episodes. And then also Patren is going to be
(01:33):
the official home of Rosa's book Corner. Yes, the music. Yes,
so you'll be able to come here if you are
following along with what I'm reading and hear us talk
about it. And the part that is at the end
of this episode with Tommy Dorfman is exclusive to Patreon.
It will not be airing in the episode that eventually
(01:54):
goes up with Tommy. Also, we might have some Patron
exclusive guests like producer Phoebe. Yeah, Phoebe's being very mommy dummy.
Phoebe wants all of her commentary behind a paywalls. That's
what she likes. So today we're going to start off
with something that you've been sliding into our DMS about.
We're going to discuss the season finale of The Last
(02:17):
of Us and sort of just the way the season
wrapped up, because I don't think you and I have
really checked in about it in a bit. Well, let's
be clear, yesterday I tried to talk about the season
finale of the Last of Us and you said save
it for the Patriots. Listen, we already we already talk
so much that sometimes it's best to keep things fresh
(02:41):
on air. No important context, honestly, is that Rose and
I had been working very hard for like an uninterrupted
three hours on our season two announcement and everything that
by the time you left, I was like, get out
of my house, Get out of my house. I was
like literally sitting on the couch reading fan fiction waiting
for you to leave. It must also be said that
(03:02):
you are you were waiting to get your backbroke. Um. Um.
I was not waiting to get my backbroke. I was
waiting to break someone else's back, which I did. Um.
But that's neither here nor there. Another that's another thing
you might get, Yeah, exclusive is our sex sock about
our sex lives because I only feel comfortable talking about
(03:23):
that behind a paywall because honestly some I love the
virgins and especially the rosebuds, but sometimes the things you
ask for, Um, let's just check ourselves when it comes
to the parasocial relationships, girly, And that's the thing is
like Rose would love Rose, and I would love to
(03:44):
respond to like the dms. We would love to respond
to all the mentions. Um. But if you subscribe to
our Patreon it is a great way. Or if you're
already here, if you've arrived, um, it is a great
way to get our attention faster, quicker, better, right, Yes,
by paying for it So let's talk about the Last
of Us finale. M what did you feel generally about
(04:08):
the end of the season From the storm Read flashback
episode on as much? Okay, from storm Read phenomen loved
Bella's kind of queer backstory. What's the character's name again, Ellie?
Ellie Love Ellie's queer backstory. Um, maybe the most heartbreaking episode,
(04:31):
I think, And I also obviously the Baby Girl episode transcendent.
I mean, when we when we have arrived on the
scene and we now understand the full arc of the
word baby girl and why Pedro has decided to kind
of finally adopt her as her daughter. The energy in
the finale like really shifted for me, Like their father
(04:54):
daughter dynamic was like uninhibited and clear, and I did
enjoy this kind of like shift from beginning to end.
The finale was really unsatisfactory to me. It was dramatically wonderful,
it was complex. I liked the themes that it brought up,
but like it was forty three minutes and I was like,
and when they finally got to their you know, spoiler,
(05:16):
to their sanctuary, I was like, okay, like give me
another ten minutes. I just wanted another ten minutes, you
know what I mean. Yeah, and we do have to
say spoilers obviously for the last of US finale the
whole season. I get what you mean. I do also
think the finale could have been a little bit longer,
(05:37):
but I really appreciated the way that it wrapped up
the story so succinctly, and it was very sparse in
a way. I really enjoyed the back half of the season.
I did feel like there was a lull around the
(05:57):
middle of the season, and um, I didn't even like
the flashback episode was good for me, but I wasn't
obsessed with it like it was. It was fun, but
I also it wasn't like it wasn't a standout to
me in the way that you know, like the gay
(06:18):
episode was. Um. I really liked the penultimate episode and like,
obviously like the baby Girl moment is great, but for me,
I really liked even more than that, how creepy it
was Ellie being captured and then see her having to
(06:40):
save herself and be really competent through you know, kind
of her own wiles and also the skills that she's
picked up from Joel and how you know, like Joel
is presented as this very like capable killing machine who's
like very emotionless by the time he meets Ellie, and
(07:03):
he obviously has like instilled a little bit of that
in her, but you see at the end of that
episode how much it costs her to be like him,
and I think that's kind of the place that she's
at in the beginning of the finale, where like you
clearly see that some of the spark that she had
has died a little bit, and she almost like kind
(07:24):
of gets it back a little bit. This scene with
the giraffes was very cute, and then they start like
looking in her punbook again, and then they're captured and
it's it's all downhill from there, and also is very
from what I've read, like that is exactly what happens
in the video game. And I also felt like that
(07:46):
whole episode it's never felt more like an adaptation of
a video game, not in a negative way, but like
when he's like going on his murders breathe throughout the hospital,
you know, shooting people and then like making their guns
to use, like that's very video game, you know, And
so it really does put you in like the space
(08:07):
of this like first person shooter game and it's I
don't know. There's been a lot of discourse online about
how about the morality of what Joel does and like
if he should if he's like dooming the world, you know,
for one person, blah blah blah. I don't know where
do you stand on all of that. I I mean,
I loved what was lifted from the video game. I
(08:29):
the giraffes from the video game, like even I was
watching like um some like side by side of the
video game and the finale, and even the line where
he when he kills the Firefly leader damn, what's her name?
I can't remember when he kills Marlene on the floor
in cold Blood and it's like you just come after her,
(08:51):
like oh, that to me was maybe the darkest point
of Pedro's killing spree. And I think I liked how
complex it was. I like that he's a killing machine.
I like that we don't get this kind of like
morally perfect ending. I just wish it wasn't the finale
because that's so much suspended tension to put into the
(09:15):
final episode and and in the in the episodes, like
final minutes when Ellie says, promise me that this is true,
and he lies to her face and you see in
Ellie's face that she just kind of she doesn't believe
him at first, and then she just like kind of
forces herself to believe him. It's just a lot of
(09:39):
ikey feeling for for like how I wanted to feel,
I guess in the end, and you know that's that's fine.
I honestly don't mind feeling that way. I just like
wish that we as I said, how did denoument? You
know what I mean? I wanted a little like ten
minutes to like ramp down, or I wanted a completely
new conflict like come in and Cliffhanger us U. Yeah.
(10:01):
But in terms of like the morality, I you know,
it's kind of I just I think it's really interesting
because like where does what does what function does morality
have in the apocalypse? What function do ethics have in
the apocalypse when there are so few of us? When
the fight for humanity is such a different game. I
(10:24):
did find myself asking a lot of questions just about
like what I would do in that situation and how
I would feel. I don't know, what, like did you feel,
would you would you go on the killing spree? To
save Ellie or do you think Ellie Do you think
Ellie believed him? I don't think Ellie believed him, but
I think that she has to tell herself that she does.
(10:46):
You know, the question of would you sacrifice someone you
loved to save the world. I I'm not going to
say it's something I've been thinking about, but I did
just finish rewatching Buffy. And that is a question that
gets brought up on several occasions, notably for Buffy in
season two when she has to kill Angel, who she's
(11:07):
in love with, to save the world, and then in
season five she is challenged to kill her sister to
save the world and won't do it, and then a
season later she gets to the point where she says,
you know, or two seasons later she says, if this
happened now, I would kill her to save the world.
(11:28):
Obviously very different circumstances, like Buffy's like a character who's
like literally been chosen by some kind of power to
be like a warrior for good. It's like and this
is and Joel is just like some guy. I don't know.
For me, I it just I think it's like you
(11:50):
have to you have to take a lot on faith
to even make that a realistic question, because it's like, Okay,
this doctor who's doing the surgery, do I actually trust
that he can take Ellie's brain and create a you know,
a vaccine and actually disseminate it to the entire world
(12:13):
and like cure the zombie virus. Like I don't know,
given everything that I've been told about this world over
the last however many episodes, like I don't know that
that's true, and like will that erase what has been
done to humanity and what humanity has done to itself
in the apocalypse, Like I don't know that a vaccine
(12:34):
is necessarily going to save the world, So why should
this fourteen year old girl be sacrificed for it? And
also like you know, Marlene says, you know, don't take
this choice away from her, but like Ellie didn't choose this,
Like she's you know, prepped. They make it very clear
that she's prepped for surgery, not knowing that she's going
(12:55):
to die. I'm sure maybe like could have crossed her mind,
but she doesn't know that she's you know, sacrificing herself
to save the world. So I don't know. It's like
it's the trolley problem. You know, it's just like a
different version of the trolley problem, which, if anyone knows,
is this sort of philosophical exercise about this very thing.
Clang clang, clang, clang, clang, clang, went the trolley. Yes,
(13:18):
sing Ding ding went the bell? Is that how it goes?
Zing zing zingg went my heart strings? Yeah, and the
kind of when I saw him, I fell. And the
moral quandary of that idea really is about the clang.
It's it's about the clang and whether whether you identify
as a clang or whether you identify as a ding.
You know, somewhere along on that spectrum is really is
(13:41):
the hearted issue? Are you a clang? You know? I
you know, I have been thinking about being Judy Garland
and meet me in Saint Louis for Halloween. I love
it your about in March. The wig would have to
be so right, it would have to be exact. You
wouldn't need a wig. You could just get extensions. I
know I wouldn't. No, girl, I want to I want
(14:03):
something I can take off like a hat. Okay, as
whatever you want, whatever you wish, okay. So like generally,
where do you stand on the last of us. Now
that the season is over, are you excited for a
season two? Obviously? I feel like there's no other response,
like it's it's just we want more and more and more,
and I can't really wait for more for more. Um So.
(14:26):
In the meantime, I've been watching The Mandalorian, which, um,
I a girl like this. This show is great. I mean,
Padri needs to take off his helmet like eventually, but like, yeah,
so so people have been talking about how the show
is great for about three years now, yeah you are.
I don't like catching up, you know, I haven't heard
(14:47):
anyone coming to the conversation very late. I don't know.
I haven't really heard any discourse or or anything about it,
like no, no, no fave characters like yeah, I haven't,
I haven't. I haven't seen any of that. I feel
like this is, you know, a great A great take
is that The Mandalorian is good? Right? So, I don't
(15:07):
know if all of you have seen this meme that's
been going around of people defining themselves by eight albums
eight albums to get to know me? Yes, um Fran
and I both did it. You can find our responses
on our respective twitters, but while we were recording an
episode with Tommy Dorfman that will be coming out in
(15:30):
a couple of weeks, we asked Tommy to share eight
albums that she defines herself by, and she did it
very quickly on the spot. Not a lot of curation
in the way that I did it. Girl Mine took
like I mean, I thought about it for like an hour.
I like left it in the draft. I came back
to it like it was kind of a it was
quite a moral condrey. Yeah, so, um, we're gonna hear
(15:54):
Tommy's eight albums and then also some lingering thoughts she
had about the oscars and yeah, we're so excited that
you are listening to our first Patreon episode and you're
going to get so much exciting content like this, without
further ado, here is a snippet of our an exclusive
snippet of our convo with Tommy Dorphins screech. So this
(16:25):
is the end of your little teaser preview of our
very first Patreon exclusive bonus episode. To get any more content,
we're kind of have to go over to Patreon dot
com slash like a virgin and subscribe. That's Patreon dot
com slash like a virgin type. It right in babies
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