Pound The Mound

• Fran & Rose saw Barbie and have lots of thoughts!!! 
• Plus, Rose saw Oppenheimer, Jenna Lyons and the RHONY refresh and what Barbie soundtrack hits made it on Fran & Rose's workout playlists. And a clip from this week's Patreon episode featuring all the juicy bits left on the cutting room floor from our iconic Barbie Doll episode with Trixie Mattel. Subscribe if you're not sick of hearing about Barbie.

Shop our summer merch line. Is the Barbie movie your whole personality? Tag our finsta @likeavirgin42069

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:03):
No, she's she's motel to female, shut up, she's sheen
am me no may not my name? Yo yo yo?
What is your childe? Rama?

Speaker 2 (00:19):
I am a cock chuck.

Speaker 1 (00:23):
Your life's going down before us round. Welcome to Like
a Virgin, the show where we give yesterday's pop culture
today's takes. I'm Rose Damu and I'm Fran Toronto, and

(00:43):
you should become a patron at Patreon dot com slash
Like a Virgin for exclusive bonus content now, including weekly
recaps of and just like that. We've also got snippets
from some of our interviews with guests. This week. There
was a some bonus content from our discussion with Trixie
Mattel about all things Barbie. So become a patron. That's right.

(01:08):
We'll be putting our live shows up there.

Speaker 3 (01:10):
We do DVD commentary and talk through like full watches
of like shows or movies. Yeah, become a Matreon Patreon
theatreon what have you at Patreon dot com slash Like
a Virgin.

Speaker 1 (01:23):
And while we're doing you know, shameless self promotion, Fran,
do you want to tell the virgins about something you've
got going on this week? That's right?

Speaker 3 (01:34):
Thank you for teeing up my shameless promotion. I mean
it's not even promoting me, it's just promoting fun. This weekend,
July twenty ninth, I'm working with a bunch of other
cool trans people to organize this thing we're calling doll
Innovationion on Fire Island. So basically, we're taking over a
house in the island that has a pool and will

(01:59):
be how using one hundred percent trans people, And we're
inviting anybody in the Tristate anybody in the Tristate area
to come spend the day and have a place to
hang specifically for trans people. Trans people get in free.
Uh So, if you are cis gender and you want
to come, you will have to pay a door entry,
but you are also welcome.

Speaker 1 (02:21):
And it's going to he can How can virgins support
this endeavor if they're not going to actually attend.

Speaker 3 (02:28):
Oh that's another really good question, Rose, Thank you for
all that. Wow, Am I am Like am I seated
on the tonight show right now? Like I feel so
cared for Yeah, you can check out the flyer on
my bio that has all of the details information, including
a sign up link. We need people to sign up
in order to get a head count. But yeah, we

(02:50):
are also still fundraising for this event. We're still trying
to pay accommodation costs. We're trying to cover like food
and drinks. We're trying to get transportation stipends for attendees.
So if you are an affluent gay who is really
passionate about trans issues or passionate about I don't know,
gaycation destinations, you live on the island, or you just
like me, you can actually support this endeavor by sending

(03:13):
me money. All of the money goes to trans labor,
trans resources, everything for adult invasion. Anything that's over raised
is going to go to for the girls. And that
information is all on my Instagram. But basically you can
venmo me or paypeal me at friends wish goo or
zell me Ats or friends wish goo at gmail dot com.

Speaker 1 (03:33):
Wow, And you can also do that if you're a
wealthy hetero. I'm sure we have oh right, some straight listeners.
And actually, if you're sis hetero, you should donate more.

Speaker 3 (03:46):
Actually, can I complain really quickly just because we're here?
Oh ways, girl, I for this event, which I had
this the idea for this event last summer and it
didn't really get momentum until May, when I finally got
a kind of production partner to cover all of like
the ev AV equipment and stuff. But I have been

(04:07):
introduced personally to so many different persons of interest who
I was told would be interested in donating to this
like initiative.

Speaker 1 (04:16):
Right, So I've been.

Speaker 3 (04:17):
Introduced to like venture capitalists, like millionaires, people married to millionaires,
people that own property on the island, like art collectors,
like people whose like whole thing is like to be wealthy,
and not a single one goals. Not a single one
of them donated, not one Like that's.

Speaker 1 (04:37):
Crazy, Well, that's because rich people hoard their wealth so
they could stay rich.

Speaker 3 (04:40):
Actualations, there was actually a really there was a white
man who was very proud of himself for mailing me
a check for two hundred dollars. But like, aside from that,
all the other people who have funded this event have
been my friends. So thank you to my friends for
showing up. But also like, we don't want, like I
don't want just my friends to support this, So yeah,
get in touch, read all about it, and if you can,

(05:01):
okay shameless promotion.

Speaker 1 (05:03):
Obah. Now it's time to talk about the name on
everyone's lips and that name is Barbenheimer. This is our
Barbenheimer episode in that in the back half of the
episode we will be talking specifically about Barbie, which we

(05:27):
both saw this weekend separately, and on the front half
of this episode, AKA right now, I'm going to talk
a little bit about Oppenheimer, which I saw this morning
at nine to fifteen am in Boca Raton, Florida. I
was in a movie theater with exclusively I would say,
people over the age of sixty love and me, which

(05:51):
is really to me, that is a safe space. It's
how I grew up, you know, surrounded by old people
in God's waiting room here in Florida. So it was
kind of the perfect experience to see that film, in
a film that I tried to get my grandpa to
come with me to see. And his response was, why
would I do that? I know how it ends, honestly,

(06:12):
because he thinks that movies exist only to impart information
rather than to beat art and make you feel something.
So to him, the idea of going to a movie
that sought to recreate historical events was completely pointless, seeing
as how he has read about them in books. Yeah,
the ending has been spoiled for him. Yeah, and even

(06:34):
if I said, if I mentioned spoilers, he would not
know what that was. Can I tell you?

Speaker 3 (06:39):
Your grandpa kind of spilled because I also was just like,
I already know how it ends. I don't want to
see this, Like I might go see it, like, you know,
because I'm a Stebanista and I.

Speaker 1 (06:47):
Can get movies for quote unquote free.

Speaker 3 (06:50):
But I was like your grandpa, I was just like, look,
I don't need I don't know. I already know how
this ends. I don't need like the guy who made
the Adam baumb like humanized I guess. But ill, Yeah,
I'm really curious as to your experience.

Speaker 1 (07:03):
Yeah, I don't think you'll like it. I mean, first
of all, because it's three hours long and it is
a lot of just men talking about stuff. But not
my favorite I I loved it. Yeah, it's so it's
such a good movie, it's so well made. It's it

(07:27):
really is like a collection of some of the most
famous actors in Hollywood, as well as like random people
who you're like, oh that guy, like literally one of
the one of the big bads from Buffy had a
minor role. You know. It's like that kind of thing,
like a bunch of random like character actors and alongside

(07:47):
like Emily Blunt and Matt Damon, but they all everyone
has besides Killy and Murphy, you know, who is Oppenheimer
and who is the baby girl of this film. Everyone
else just kind of like comes in, does a scene
or two, and then you know, moves on like it's
an en piece. Yeah, but it's a great movie. It's

(08:10):
very sweeping well at the same time being very tight
on this man's story. It like is and is not
a biopic. It also is much more about It's not
just about the creation of the atom bomb. It's also
about the fallout from it and later in Oppenheimer's life.

(08:34):
He was tried is the wrong word, but he was.
There was sort of like a tribunal about his Communist ties,
and that is kind of the framing device of the film.
And those scenes are are like equally as tense as
the stuff about the the bomb. Lots of like random

(08:57):
people in there who have not like done anything in forever,
Like Josh Hartnett was in there, and Josh ha so hot.

Speaker 2 (09:07):
But he.

Speaker 1 (09:10):
Like also I think this Josh from Drake and Josh
is in it. No in a random role. But it
is incredibly well made. You know, Christopher Nolan is an
amazing director. It's beautiful to look at. The sound design

(09:31):
and the score are incredible. The acting is amazing. You know,
Killian Murphy slayed Robert Downey Junior, who is this figure
in in you find out like later in the film
in opposition to Oppenheimer, was incredible And I'm so glad
he's like out of the clutches of Marvel and is

(09:52):
making movies like this. Emily Blunt, you know, is not
given a ton to do because this is a Christopher
Nolan movie and women does not know how to write
women and doesn't really want them in his movies, but
he'll take them if he has to very him. But
she the stuff that she has is amazing. Like there's

(10:15):
one scene late in the film where she's called on
to be a witness in this like like quote unquote
trial against Oppenheimer, and she's a drunk, like she's a
drunk mess, like swollen face like whatever. And you think
that this guy who's sort of like leading the you know,
like prosecution is gonna like tear her to shreds. And

(10:39):
she fucking eviscerates him and it's incredible. Probably she will
definitely get nominated for.

Speaker 3 (10:45):
Best Supporting Actress at the Oscars, and has she been
nominated already?

Speaker 1 (10:49):
Would potentially win? Uh maybe maybe Phoebe you can fact
check that for us. By the stupid question, was there action? Yes,
the most action is when they test the bomb, which
is which like is the climax of the movie. But

(11:09):
then but then it happens, and then there's like another
hour of the movie which is much more about the Uh. Okay,
Emily Blunt has never been nominated. I do think this
will be. She will absolutely be nominated for this. Florence
Pugh is also really great in this. She has two

(11:30):
very weird sex scenes with Killian Murphy. It's really strange,
but it works. Killian Murphy his eyes are so blue,
his waist is so snatched. I actually don't really know
anything about Killian Murphy. He is an Irish actor with
eyes as blue as the sea and as lips that

(11:54):
look like they have had at least a full syringe
of juvenile pumped into that said, how we like them?
Oh yeah, yeah? Period. It also, I mean, when we
start talking about Barbie, like I will I think there
is something to be said about you know, not only
are these two movies where they released on the same day,
but they both kind of are about this thing that

(12:19):
was introduced to the world and like irrevocably changed it
for good or evil. Oppenheimer reckons with that a lot
more than I think Barbie does ultimately. Well, I mean,
you know, probably.

Speaker 3 (12:33):
I mean, actually I haven't seen Oppenheimer, but when we
talk about Barbie, let me tell you the whole movie
was about critiquing Barbie, which I thought was pretty cool.

Speaker 1 (12:43):
I will, we'll get to it. I don't. I don't.
I don't know that it's successfully critique. I think it
presents questions without actually answering them. Yeah, but Oppenheimer Slade,
I don't know that I would ever watch it again.
But I really really enjoyed it, and it did not

(13:04):
feel overly long. I did not get up to pee
at all. I was really fascinated. You know, it's not perfect,
but it's really really fucking good.

Speaker 3 (13:19):
I'm like, just really glad that you saw the movie
so that we don't have to have to at all.
That is really like such a public service you're seeing
it for people around the world.

Speaker 1 (13:30):
Rows that is a service I am happy to provide.
And you know, I wasn't sure I was gonna see it,
and I'm glad I did, much like I wasn't sure
I was going to watch the new season of Real
Housewives of New York City. Oh yeah, and I have,
so I am I'm glad I did because I'm kind
of into it.

Speaker 3 (13:48):
Wait, can we talk about this, Like what I really
actually when we texted about it, I really didn't think
you were going to watch it?

Speaker 1 (13:54):
So what pushed you over the edge. Well, I'll tell you,
fran I am in Florida in my mom's house and
there's cable TV and nothing else to do. Yeah, so
that's the only circumstances that could have gotten me to
watch it. So now I'm locked in at least for
a couple episodes until I inevitably get bored. So I

(14:15):
really like the New Roney Girls so far. Obviously Jenna
Lyons is mother but also mommy. I'm like really attracted
to her.

Speaker 3 (14:26):
So she's hot, she has hot vibes, hot energy, swagger, She's.

Speaker 1 (14:31):
I need her shoe closet. That is my goal in life.
I came when that came.

Speaker 3 (14:37):
I was like, actually, like having a transcendental experience looking
at her shoe closet.

Speaker 1 (14:42):
I also really like Brinn, who's the one whose tagline
is like mess with me and I'll fuck your dad.

Speaker 3 (14:50):
She's the one that's behind this kind of cheesegate thing
that's happening right now.

Speaker 1 (14:53):
Is yes, yes, cheesegate. Well, you know, it is crucial
for every Real Housewives franchise to have a some kind
of altercation that is so minor and stupid, but the
repercussions of which ripple throughout the season and possibly entire
run of the show.

Speaker 3 (15:12):
Yeah, it's very possible that what has now transpired in
Cheesegate is something that will be relevant for seasons to come.
Will Yeah, so we'll drive the drama forward for maybe
five seasons of the show.

Speaker 1 (15:24):
I really hated it.

Speaker 3 (15:26):
I know that Ronie has is like always about like Ronnie,
and also just all Real Housewives are really good at
manufacturing stupid, stupid plot lines, and I think that's part
of the fun, right that like, these women are fighting
about something as stupid as a cheeseboard. But for the
premiere and for what should be a entry point to

(15:49):
all of these women, I did wish there was just
like something a little more concrete, And I wouldn't be
saying this, and I'm curious on your thoughts. I wouldn't
be saying this if I didn't see from the preview
that there really isn't that much drama to come.

Speaker 2 (16:03):
Either.

Speaker 1 (16:04):
Well, we don't know. We only see what they have
chosen to show us. But you know, I think part
of the problem is that two of the women don't drink,
as they reveal in the second episode, and we know
that another thing you need to have a successful Real
Housewives franchise is a bunch of alcoholics. Yea, they all

(16:24):
are too, are actually drinking. You know, Uba, who I
also really like, said in the second episode that she
hasn't drank for years because she like kind of had
a problem with it when she was younger, and I
found myself being like, well, maybe you should pick that
problem back. No, I would never I would never wish

(16:44):
that on anyone. I think one of the other women
even said like, I can't imagine, like Uba is already
a lot to handle sober, I can't imagine what she
would be like with a couple drinks in her And
I was like, well, I am imagining it, and I
think it would be a sligh, but it would be
slay you. I support her in her journey.

Speaker 3 (17:03):
So you didn't watch the most the most recent Ultimate
Girls Trip, which was maybe my favorite Ultimate Girls Trip
out of all the Ultimate Girls Trips, and I've watched
all of them. But there is a really funny kind
of like plot line slash tiff between Heather and Leah
Remini the other the Fire, not.

Speaker 1 (17:21):
Leah Remini, Lea that is that is a different person,
that is the that is the girlie who left Scientology, Amazon,
King of Queens. Wait, who is Leah Leah? What's her face?

Speaker 2 (17:31):
Leah?

Speaker 1 (17:31):
Just Leah her last Yeah, So between.

Speaker 3 (17:34):
Leah Remini, I don't even know who that is.

Speaker 1 (17:36):
So between Heather and Leah, it's actually.

Speaker 3 (17:43):
It's actually Remeny Remeny and still not who she is, Okay,
So between Leah and Heather, the basically like Heather doesn't
really realize that Leah is like an actual alcoholic alcoholic,
Like I think Leah just says at one point like
I don't drink or something, and so Heather was like,
literally to the other girls when Leah is not present,
Heather's like, let's get her to drink yeah, let's like,

(18:05):
let's get her to be fun like she should be
drinking like and then Lea comes sure. The producers were
also yeah, yeah, and then they were like well and
then Lea comes in. She was like that would ruin
my life, like what like, but also it would be
good TV.

Speaker 1 (18:21):
Okay, so great TV. Back to Ronnie, this is very important.

Speaker 3 (18:24):
Phoebe has dropped in the chat that Bethany Frankel is
calling for reality stars to unionize. Any thoughts, any commentary.

Speaker 1 (18:31):
Yeah, they should. Everyone should unionize. That's true. Everyone support
We should put we support any and all unions here
and like, okay, follow up question, when the Real Housewives unionize,
is it like each franchise gets like a strike captain
And if so, which wife from each franchise is the
strike captain of each union? I actually don't know if

(18:51):
any of them could be trusted with that kind of responsibility,
but I do think that someone like Heather Gay would
want to be the strike. She would want to be
the strike. No one would ever want to listen to her,
so it would probably end up being like Bethany from
Old Roney.

Speaker 3 (19:07):
I feel like, yeah, it would be a Bethany Bethany
kind of situation. Yeah, there are no housewives that really
have their shit together in that way. Jillson actually, oh,
Jill Zaren would be an amazing strike captain, and she
does have Fran Dresher energy, so that actually does work
really well. Okay, So on the total refresh of Ronnie,

(19:30):
you said you have two housewives just like feelings in general.

Speaker 1 (19:33):
Three I like, I like Uba Brynn and and Jenna Jenna.

Speaker 3 (19:41):
Okay, I obviously lashed on a Jenna. I said to
you when we chated on the phone that like seeing
Jenna Lyons on TV is like watching footage of the
Luckness Monster. Like, it's so wild to behold her on televisihow,
She's so weird. She's such an anomaly. She's so massively
successful in a way that most people aren't, and yet

(20:05):
most people haven't really heard of her, Like I think
New Yorkers are the only people that.

Speaker 1 (20:08):
Know who she is. She's like a very if you know,
you know, kind of celebrity exactly.

Speaker 3 (20:13):
Yeah, and I think she likes it that way, which
is why I'm so surprised that she's doing something so
radically out.

Speaker 1 (20:18):
Really, she doesn't like it that way. She clearly wants
to be more famous. You don't go on housewives if
you don't want to be famous. No, you want to
be famous.

Speaker 3 (20:29):
She there really is no housewife like Jenna, Like, I
don't know a whole lot of housewives that are just
middle of the road. Like she's stable, she seems like rational,
she seems like a full.

Speaker 1 (20:40):
Human, but she also has some darkness, you know. In
the second episode, she opens up about her mom, who
had Aspergers and is kind of the reason why she's
a little stilted and cold. She also talked about being
outed by The New York Post when she had first
started dating women. I forgot about that, and you know,

(21:02):
so she definitely has some demons and she's a freak.
She's a freaking I listened to that song at the
gym the other day five times in a row. That's
too many times, No, but it really got me going.
It's got the blood moving.

Speaker 3 (21:25):
I don't even know what like my blood moving. Like, honestly,
I've been listening to the Barbie soundtrack. I know we're
getting there, but like.

Speaker 1 (21:33):
So, do you want to do you want to hear? Actually,
what's on my gym playlist currently? Oh? Yes, please? It is,
and I'm not a playlist girl, but at the gym
I really need bops too. This is not all bops,
but it's a very weird collection of things that I added,
like two songs to a playlist, and then I just
kind of added the things that were suggested. So right

(21:55):
now my gym playlist is Rush by Troy Sevon Okay,
speed Drive from Barbie Okay, Grapefruit by Tablow or Tu
Below Minute by Kim Petris, runners Hi by Mona World
Class Center, Slash, I'm a Freak from the idol PADM
Padam We Know Angel from the Barbie album, which is

(22:19):
one of my favorites from the Barbie album, the Pink
Panther song He Did by Beyonce, I Can See You
by Taylor Swift, Catwalk by Route Ball and then Scott
and then a surprise Choose Your Fighter by Ava Max,
also from the Barbie soundtrack. I do not like Ava Max,
and I do think that the song sounds exactly like

(22:43):
the two other songs of hers that I've heard, but
it's good.

Speaker 3 (22:47):
I am learning right here and now that Ava Max
was on the Barbie soundtrack and I had no idea
because I have her muted on Spotify.

Speaker 1 (22:58):
I have her muted on Twitter. I have the words
the phrase Ava Max muted on Twitter while we're here. Honestly, okay,
I will say like, I also have Rush on my
gym kind of like repeat on repeat recently. Look, there's
no shame in the rush aissance or whatever it is

(23:18):
right now.

Speaker 3 (23:19):
It's not a soance. It was never It can't be
a zonce if it if it is a new thing.
The girls are treating it like a son's.

Speaker 1 (23:27):
I don't know what you're talking about. This song is
a bop.

Speaker 3 (23:31):
I think that the little vocal chorus part like would
be better not on the chorus that said Rush is on.
I am also listening to the Barbie soundtrack. I think
the du I didn't like the Dua Lipa song at first,
and now I think I like it. I also wake
up to the opening Lizzo song every day.

Speaker 1 (23:48):
The Lizo song is really good and really funny, so
it's especially funny in the movie, but it's it's one
of the first Lizo songs that I actually kind of like.

Speaker 3 (23:58):
And it sorry not to get into well, well, I'll
get into Barbie stuff later, but I was just gonna
say Revelations from the Kimpetres New Kimpetres album I thought
was good. I also love Minute.

Speaker 1 (24:12):
Minutes, the only one that I liked when I gave
the album a very cursory listen. I'm sure Kim Petris
really wanted to be on the Barbie's oundtrack, but she's not.

(24:44):
Today we are talking about Barbie. We both have seen it,
and I think it's time to finally get into the
Barbie of it all, don't you. Friend. Yeah, I'm literally
I cannot contain my takes. I know I've been waiting
to hear. I'm so I we okay, virgins. Just to

(25:08):
be really honest, we did talk briefly about Barbie yesterday
on the phone, so I do kind of know your
high level thoughts about it. But we have not gotten
into the minutia. And that's what we're going to do today,
and we're not going to do what I saw a comment, Okay, So,
I was recently reading through our our reviews on Apple podcasts,

(25:35):
and one of them said that we never actually discuss
pieces of culture. We only say whether we think actors
and TV shows are hot, and then never give any
substantial criticism about them. So we're not going to do
that today. Well, and that's not even a real thing
that we do. Who wha wha wha wha wha woa,
back up, back up, back up.

Speaker 3 (25:52):
First of all, that's a completely defamatory thing to say
about our podcast. We talk a lot about how hot
actors are, yes, okay, but that.

Speaker 1 (26:04):
We have a whole We have a suckometer for it.
We have a suck ometer, low dometer, low dometer, lodometer,
low dometer. I'm so sorry, Well we need a sucknometer too.

Speaker 3 (26:14):
But listen, do not come to this podcast for salient
journalistic like like perfectly executed criticism. Like I know that
I like coseplay as a critic, but like, look, we're
not critics. We're friends talking about culture in normal ways,

(26:35):
and you are listening to us like on your commute
or like in your car or like whatever, and you
get to pass the time with that, and if you
don't like it, you can get the fuck out.

Speaker 1 (26:45):
Yeah. I do not consider myself a critic. I don't really.
I'm not going to say I don't believe in criticism,
Like I definitely believe criticism has its place in art,
but I'm not here to offer up a sort of intellectual,
rualized critique of media. I'm always thinking about things as
a consumer, as someone who loves and consumes a lot

(27:08):
of pop culture, and also to do. And we want
to talk about people whose loads we want to take.

Speaker 3 (27:13):
Yes, both we can give a salient critique and also
talk about taking someone's load. Thank you very much, And
let me tell you the duality of tran. Yes, sometimes
the duality of tran is that sometimes we do actually
make really great critiques. But like, our job is not
to critique. Our job is to just like be interesting
while we talk podcast. Yeah, so that you have something

(27:33):
to do in your spare time, You're welcome and it's free,
and fuck that person anyway, Barbie, let's talk about Barbie.

Speaker 1 (27:40):
I'm very interested to see if the premise of the
show is true and that we will have the exact
opposite take about this movie and almost every part of it. So, Fran,
what did you think? I loved it? I loved this movie.

(28:01):
It's not a perfect movie.

Speaker 3 (28:02):
There are a lot of things in its execution where
I was like, I was like, I don't know about that,
but like, overall, ten out of ten, it's gonna be
nominated for Oscars. I think it's Greta Gerwig's best movie,
extremely controversial take, and I did not stop having fun,
did not stop having fun. And I think that that
was really that was a surprise for me because I

(28:24):
just like went into this movie expecting it to disappoint
me because there's been so much hype, right, There's been
so much chat at this point about the movie. I
was like, this movie has marketing, yes, so much marketing,
And I was like, this movie has no choice but
to fail because I don't trust that Mattel can actually
start an interesting conversation around Barbie or even like make

(28:45):
it entertaining. And I also was thinking the movie would
be more for kids, which it wasn't. I actually think
it's very explicitly for kids. But we'll discuss. Did you
see the PG version or the PG thirteen version, because
there are two different kinds of screenings. No, I saw
the PG thirteen version. You're like, I'm sure I saw
the PG thiry. Okay, so that's definitely not for kids.

(29:06):
Definitely not for kids, Diva. But anyways, Okay, what did
you think, Rose?

Speaker 1 (29:12):
I thought it was great. I had a lot of fun.
I was not as bad as I expected to be.
I know me, you know that I am really here
to mostly enjoy things, like for the most part, I

(29:34):
think some of the difference between you and I is
that you kind of go into things expecting not to
like them, and I really want to just have fun,
And especially a movie like this that is such a movie,
like a summer blockbuster. I was really primed to have
a fucking blast and love it, and you didn't love it.

(29:59):
I I didn't love it. I really liked it, but
I did not love it. It was not as funny
as I thought it would be. I did not laugh
alloud a lot. Wow. I thought a lot of the
I don't know, what do you want to call it,
social commentary or sort of you know, like feminist perspective

(30:24):
of it was very defanged. I thought it presented, as
I said before, like presented a lot of ideas and
asked a lot of questions without ever really trying to
answer them. And I actually thought some of the performances
were very underwhelming, specifically Margo robi What yeah, I think

(30:46):
Margot Robbie in a movie called Barbie was basically second
fiddle to Ken, and that was kind of one of
my major problems is that Ken was the star of
this movie.

Speaker 3 (30:57):
I wow, I was so I was so buckled in
for all of that, but that last bit really threw me.
And I fundamentally disagree. But I don't want to start
with what we disagree about. Actually, let's start with what
we Let's start with something that we really agree on.
I will say my kind of the only thing that
I really did not love about the movie was what

(31:20):
I felt was a very ham fisted hammering of the
feminist messaging. That this movie is like staked too right,
Like I I don't feel as you feel that it
was quote unquote defanged, Like I think that there were
definitely there's definitely a flattening of feminist ideas that happened

(31:40):
on screen in order for it to be more accessible
or for to make more sense. But I think that
there are many extremely kind of radical ideas about feminism
introduced in this movie, even if they are kind of
like sneaky on the side, Like saying that like men
should be like extracted from siss society and made into

(32:01):
like a subservient population that is like feeding the dolls
or whatever. Like that is like there's something about that
that's like kind of radical. There are a lot of
elements about the anti manness that a lot of conservative
presses is a lot of conservative press are saying like
this is so anti man, this is so anti man.
I'm like, yeah, like yeah, it is, like and like
Lord of the Rings is anti woman, Like yeah, like

(32:22):
these like movies can be movies can have points of view,
and I don't I don't think that Greta Gerwig was
sitting there being like, this movie's going to be so
anti man. But girl, all of the monologues we got,
we got so many fucking monologues about women's empowerment, and
it's like one of them would have really hit home

(32:44):
for me, Like they were all good, but like I
only needed one and I was like, at the end
of the day, the feminist elements of the movie that
I actually enjoyed were the jokes, like feminism jokes, But
the ones that I didn't enjoy were the lectures when
I felt like I was being told too.

Speaker 1 (33:01):
Yeah. Obviously I loved America Ferrera's monologue about womanhood.

Speaker 3 (33:08):
Which he helped write apparently, but also.

Speaker 1 (33:12):
Greta Gerwig has already done that in Little Women. Yeah,
so it is a little bit copy paste, even though
it's presented in a new way. And I guess some
of what I feel about it is like they put
so much obvious feminism in social commentary in the movie

(33:33):
so that there did not need to be up a
much deeper reckoning with those ideas, and that in presenting
them in their most bombastic and spectacular way, that that
was enough. And I get it, Like this is a

(33:53):
kid's movie again, Like I know that we want to
believe that this was made for us, but this is
a children's movie, and so the ideas in it are
present and I'm not saying that's a bad thing. But
I'm saying is that the ideas that are presented in
it are presented in a way that children can understand,

(34:14):
and that's why they are somewhat simple. And so I'm
not saying I went into this movie looking for a
radical presentation of feminism and so I wasn't disappointed by
not getting one. And I actually think the parts of
this film that are most transgressive are I'm not joking
when I say that I think this is a trans movie. Yeah,

(34:37):
you don't have to look further than the ending line,
which some people might have grown at it, but I
think is pretty fucking punk. The movie ends with Barbie
going to her guy acologist. I that is fucking sick girl.

Speaker 3 (34:52):
Can we talk about that. Actually, I was going to
ask you about the last line.

Speaker 1 (34:56):
I'm so you loved it. I'm glad you I loved it.
I mean, I love the scene. I thought it was
so funny. I loved the scene where Barbie told the
construction workers that she didn't have a vagina and Ken
didn't have a penis. Yeah, so funny. They are canonically
a tea for tea couple. And then I loved the
Barbie is a trans woman like she is. She is
a she is a D to F trans woman, trans

(35:20):
she's a P she's plastic to female, she's P to F.

Speaker 3 (35:24):
Yeah, she's just got a little mound down there. Okay, No,
I'm glad you like the last line. I thought the
resolution of the movie was maybe where I felt like
it was the most this oversimplification thing that you're talking
about is very true, and I felt like in the
resolution of the movie, I was like the existentiality and
the like the the element of the of it where
it's like no life goes on and dolls are forever

(35:46):
and so you can be forever, and I thought that
was really cool. Like that I think worked, but the way.

Speaker 1 (35:51):
That profound but also but also this is the thing.
It's this movie is both profound and vague at the
it is it is like the rules of this world
are so unspecified, and that's fine. I love fantasy movies

(36:11):
or fantastical movies where you never fully understand the rules
of how the world works. Like I liked that, you know,
the guys from the boardroom could roller skate into Barbieland
and we didn't really need to know the mechanics of it.
Or Barbie could like sit on a bench and have
a vision and we didn't really ask questions about why
she was able to do that, or she was able

(36:33):
to turn into a human and we don't really need
to understand how that happened. But yet those things happen
and we're supposed to see them as being incredibly profound
and meaningful, but how we got there is like kind
of a blur. So I do think that takes away

(36:54):
a bit from how impactful they can be. So it's
a little bit paradox to me. Yeah, no, I agree.

Speaker 3 (37:03):
The movie is all at once oversimplified and incredibly complex.
I respond to maximalism. I respond to a lot of
ideas and a plethora of ideas as opposed to like
a dearth of ideas or a movie that is trying
too hard to be safe. Which is part of why
I just yes love the word dearth. And that's part

(37:25):
of the reason why I really really love this movie
is I was just like, maximalism is like subjectively my tea,
and so I was just having so much fucking fun
throughout this movie. But I wonder if I can kind
of I really fucking love this movie, and I'm gonna
go see it again. And I wonder, honestly, when you
go see it again, because I think you might too.

Speaker 1 (37:44):
Yeah, I want to say I really want to see
it again, because I think a lot more could be
gleaned from a second, closer viewing of it, because I'm
sure there was stuff that I missed, stuff that will
hit better or different on the second viewing. And maybe
once I'm past the initial reaction of seeing this thing

(38:05):
that we all have been waiting and waiting for and
anticipating for so long, like, maybe I'll appreciate it more
as much as I didn't like the quote unquote feminism
of this movie. It's depiction of womanhood and especially the

(38:26):
stuff that it did around mothers and daughters, even though
like that is another place where it was like very
specific and very vague at the same time, because it's like, yes,
we get that, there's this whole thing about Ruth Handler
creating Barbie and now she's Barbie's mother, and Barbie takes
her daughter's name when she goes in the real world,

(38:46):
and like Rio Pearlman has that great line that like
mother stands still so their daughters can look back and
see how far they've come. Like that's a beautiful line,
but at the same time, it's like that's not what
the whole movie's about. It's kind of like shoehorn In
in the last act a bit. But I did really
like it. And I saw this movie with my mom
and that was a really beautiful experience. And my mom

(39:09):
loved this movie. And she was very lukewarm about seeing it.
She was like, yeah, I'll see it, but like I
don't really care, and she loved it, and it was like,
actually really nice to see it with her. And you know,
Greta Gerwig makes does great storytelling around mothers and daughters.
And actually, when my mom and I left the movie,
we were in the car and she was pulling out

(39:30):
and she looked over and me and she went, aren't
you so happy that you're a woman?

Speaker 3 (39:33):
And like that was that was very good, good, that's
so cute.

Speaker 1 (40:03):
I think maybe this movie is more profound for women
of my mom's generation, who are somewhat in between the
time when Barbie was introduced and the world we live,
I mean kind of directly between the time when Barbie
was created and where we are now, and the women
who really are kind of standing still in the middle

(40:26):
of those two polar opposite sides of womanhood. So I did,
I did really appreciate that. And then, of course, like
I appreciate this film on a technical level, it was
beautiful to look at. I loved how much you know,
practical work went into this, Like all this done own
stage stuff was beautiful. Barbie Land was beautiful. The costumes

(40:50):
were amazing and so fun.

Speaker 3 (40:52):
Like the fact that there's like no water, like there's
no like liquids, right, there's no ocean because you can't
put that on dolls, and like they're they're feet, the
flat feet, Like there's so many things where it's like
cinematic invention, Like just like you, the world building, they
made me like so happy. Step by step by step,
it's like every it's like it wasn't enough for us

(41:13):
to get this huge induction of Barbie World, which was
so rich. There was so much going on, but like
throughout the whole film there were these litter reveals that
it's just like, oh yeah, and the Barbie also has
these like this, these are these ar chibal fashion moments
which I thought were so cool where they like not.

Speaker 1 (41:31):
The palazzos, not the palazzos, so funny, so many my
favorite line of the movie.

Speaker 3 (41:38):
But then Harry NEETs screaming flat Feet was definitely one
of my favorite.

Speaker 1 (41:42):
It was great. So a lot of the references to
older Barbies, the jokes about Midge were really funny, and
they showed earring Magic Ken. Yes, I loved Earring Magic
Ken and Sugar's Daddy and obviously we love we love Alan.
Alan is a king? What's Alan on the lodometer? I

(42:05):
would suck I would suck Alan. Okay, so he doesn't
have genitalia, so right, but but you know what, I
tweeted that Alan would be ass up in the mojo
dojo Costa house, and someone replied saying that he doesn't
have genitalia. You know, those barbies can, as I know
from experience, you can rub their you know, sort of

(42:25):
like weird blobby genitals against each other and can't make
magic happen.

Speaker 3 (42:30):
You can pound the mound, so to speak. There were
certain you're like, I'm not gonna acknowledge that I do.

Speaker 1 (42:38):
Like pound the mound. I there were things that I
wanted more of, Like I loved Helen Mirren's breaking the
fourth wall joke about Margot Robbie, like that was GREATA
I actually think good. I actually think there should have
been more Helen mirren narration. Yeah, you're gonna if you're
kind of just device use it more and actually use
that to give us more of a window into what

(43:02):
Barbie's thinking as she's trying to grow, because that's the thing.
Besides a couple moments where Margot Robbie has like a
single tear or whatever, I found her performance at times
to be very opaque and like I didn't really understand
what was going on beneath the surface. And I think
part of that is because she's literally playing a doll.
But you know, Barbie is she's like the with the

(43:25):
Ken of it all. Like Barbie is the she's the
straight woman in her movie. Yeah, and Ken is the
one who gets to have all the fun. M Yeah,
that is kind of that is kind of it. There
was some fun for Barbie, you know, like I but I.

Speaker 3 (43:43):
I'm trying to find common ground in what you're saying,
because I really I feel like she was perfect for
this role. I feel like there is a vacuousness and
an emptiness to her and her performance that worked really well.
I wasn't necessarily I didn't feel that there was an imbalance.
I know a lot of people actually feel like there

(44:03):
was this kind of like fight between the two leads
of the film. I honestly was so focused on the ensemble.
I didn't really feel like the movie had much of
a primary character. It's just that Barbie was like kind
of the what everything was orbiting around, like the epicenter.

Speaker 1 (44:20):
But you know, I will agree with you that there.

Speaker 3 (44:24):
There are moments where Margo Robbie sometimes just plays the
same shtick over and over again when she needs to
be something of a cartoon that lacks that like added
layer like what she does in Ititanya is like like
to me her one hundred and ten percent, like she's
so fucking layered and there's so much going on with

(44:46):
her in Ititania, but something like Birds of Prey, I
was like, you're just it's like line delivery, line delivery,
line delivery, line delivery, really weird voice and accent like,
and I feel distracted, and maybe, like with Barbe, it's
like there's more acting in like the caricature of Barbie
than there is actually like in the acting.

Speaker 1 (45:06):
And I wasn't mad at that.

Speaker 3 (45:08):
I never there wasn't a moment really during the movie
where I felt like Margot wasn't really delivering. But I
will agree that she didn't really feel like the lead,
so to speak. And I don't mind that, no.

Speaker 1 (45:20):
I I guess I was expecting more. And I think
maybe this might just be a Margot Robbie thing, because
I am looking back on other performances of hers, and
I don't know that she's ever gagged me on screen,
like I do like her as Harley Quinn and I
liked the Harley Quinn movie. But even there, I don't
think she's necessarily like the best part of that movie.

(45:41):
Do you remember Ititania? Yeah, I mean Ititanya. She's she's goods.
I haven't seen it in a while. She's so good
in that movie. I don't know, but I think it's
it's not that she was bad, it's that Ryan Gosling
was just so good, yeah, and was given so much
more to work with fine that she was just a
little overshadowed. And also the part that is the part

(46:09):
of the movie where I guess she does her most growing,
which is when she's in the human world, was kind
of my least favorite part of the movie. I actually
think the second act of this film is its weakest part.

Speaker 3 (46:24):
I m okay, I will say so okay, Barbie World
to human world. It was bound to happen. The parts
of like the kind of human worlds that I did
like in the second half the movie was everything at
Mattel Like I thought Will Ferrell. I thought everything was
perfectly cast. I thought the whole ensemble was so perfectly
cast to from like, you know, fucking from Ruth to

(46:47):
Helen Mirren to Lizzo doing the opening song to Will
Ferrell doing Mattel like. I just thought every every like
time after time again, I was like, yes, that's exactly.

Speaker 1 (46:56):
Who should be doing this.

Speaker 3 (46:58):
But I think with the will feral stuff, I was
really shocked, And part of why I really loved the
movie was by how surprised I was by the lengths
at which a corporation was willing to make fun of itself,
and not just that, like invest a lot of money
in completely ridiculing itself, like not just ridiculing its entity,

(47:20):
but ridiculing a boardroom filled with people that work at
matel Like that's amazing, Like I cannot believe that that
version of the script was made, Like isn't that cool?

Speaker 1 (47:32):
I it is cool, but I'm not surprised by it
at all because it is all to the end of
selling Barbies. But how could you?

Speaker 3 (47:41):
But the thing is, when has a corporation ever done that.
Winn has like a piece of intellectual property as big
as Barbie, or even close to as big as Barbie
ever been like, yeah, let's make fun of everyone, not
just the thing that we sell, but everybody that works
here too, Like Disney's Ratica has.

Speaker 1 (48:01):
Been doing that since enchanted with yes way that it
with the way that it skewers the idea of Disney princesses,
not the it's not as but yeah no, but it's
not as pointed. It's not they're not literally putting Disney
executives in their movie, but they are pretending to be
in on the joke of the criticism of their very

(48:25):
product to the ultimate end goal of selling tickets to
movies and then selling merchandise.

Speaker 3 (48:32):
But the thing is to do that, to do what
Mattel did in and also like have jokes about penises
vaginas like guynecologists, Like really, I think like layered and
like sometimes radical feminist ideas in this movie. Like I
I feel like I want to reward this project, like

(48:55):
I want to build it up. I feel like, I
know it's like so stupid because it's like Mattel and
this is a bajillion dollar entity and they're going to
make so much money.

Speaker 1 (49:02):
But it's just like I do wish that people went there,
Like I this is the most fun.

Speaker 3 (49:08):
And I know these we had very different experiences, but like,
this is the most fun I've had in a theater
since everything everywhere, all at once, and everything everywhere was
my favorite movie I had seen in years.

Speaker 1 (49:18):
Like I loved was not mine.

Speaker 3 (49:21):
I know, I know I and the things that I
loved about the film were the things that it was
like unafraid to It was unafraid to be weird, Like
it wanted to be weird, It wanted to be maximalist.
It had tons of ideas and decided to go for
a lot of them. And it didn't try to be perfect.
It didn't try to be palatable. It didn't try to

(49:43):
please people. And this movie is extremely unpalatable to its
target demographic, which is.

Speaker 1 (49:52):
America.

Speaker 3 (49:53):
Like the mainstream midwestern cis America is not something it's
not I know that. Like honestly, your Mom is like
a really good example of like the kind of woman
that actually is perfect for a movie like this. But
the rest of America, Diva is gonna hate this movie,
you know what I mean. Or they're not gonna get it,
or it's gonna be too complicated, or they're gonna think
it's too weird. And that's why I think it's really

(50:14):
cool that a movie like this and a movie like
Everything Everywhere was so successful, not because it's like so
important for women or not because it's like, oh my god,
it's like amazing perfect art. It's like, no, it's amazing
because it is a completely original script that ran with
extremely complicated and weird ideas and pulls it off to

(50:37):
massive success. That's why I loved it.

Speaker 1 (50:40):
I mean, I agree, but I was thinking about this earlier,
like a I think this movie is too big to fail. Yeah, sure,
like Barbie is an entity and the juggernaut of this
film are just too big to fail. True. And then
also I don't actually know if this movie am the
way it presents is radical when you think about because

(51:03):
I actually, in seeing this film, I really appreciated our
episode with Trixy Mattel about Barbie because it made me
understand that actually this very much fits into the legacy
of Barbie, which is presenting a product that you are
unsure if the world is going to receive well, and

(51:25):
there is actually a lot of opposition to it, and
it still is a success anyway. So I don't believe
releasing this movie is like Mattel going against its like
values or customer base. I think it actually, but it's
a huge ring. I think it is seemingly very in
line with what Barbie specifically has always been.

Speaker 3 (51:49):
But that's my point is that if it was too
big to fail, Mattel very easily could have just made
this movie directed by Ava DuVernay and then it's just
like a normal action with the lightest message ever and
and like maybe a little boring, you know what I mean,
Like there's a version of this that is just like
a straightforward, no frills action movie, and they didn't do that,

(52:12):
you know. I thought, that's like why I was so
I honestly, here's the thing. If the movie had had
zero marketing, Like I feel like I would have walked
into this movie very differently, and I think you would
have too, And yeah, I don't. I just like thought
that something this huge would not have any sort of
like legs to stand on in the art, in the

(52:35):
art realm, Like I didn't think it was gonna be
good art, and I didn't think it was going to
be good critique. And I thought it was great art,
and I thought it was great critique.

Speaker 1 (52:44):
That is where I will have to disagree with you
a little bit, because like aska, so, I want to
circle back to what I kind of briefly touched on
and talking about Oppenheimer, which is that Oppenheimer record.

Speaker 3 (52:55):
Do you enjoy Oppenheiber more than Barbie?

Speaker 1 (52:58):
Right here right now? In a while to say with it,
but maybe possible. Ah, it's it's possible.

Speaker 3 (53:05):
I think you're just being contrarian.

Speaker 1 (53:06):
Oppenheimer is very much about someone reckoning with the dangerous,
world altering thing that they've introduced into the world and
being haunted by that. I do believe that Barbie presents

(53:27):
that same idea and quandary, but ultimately does not really
answer it and kind of just shrugs its shoulders. Like
even at the end when America Ferrera is like, let's
make an ordinary Barbie. Yeah, you know, it's kind of like, okay, sure,

(53:52):
it's all. Well, it's like and that's it, and that's
the resolution of the of this huge question. It's like,
is Barbie is Barbie good? Does Barbie make women hate themselves?
Or does Barbie build women up? And you know, we've
been on this journey with stereotypical Barbie the whole movie,
realizing that the world that exists in barbieland where they

(54:14):
think they've solved the problems of feminism does not exist
in the real world, and being tasked with figuring out
if she is complicit in that, and that question is
never answered. Well, I know that question doesn't really have
an answer yeah, But then I'm like, then why even

(54:35):
ask the question? Well, the thing okay, So here's the
thing though, is I agree that the question is not
necessarily I feel like the problems of feminism are not
resolved in the movie, yes, because they are not resolved
in real life. I mean the resolved in barbieland it
looks like, which I think is cool, and I think
that that is part of I think that's the part

(54:56):
of the appeal for me, is that the movie.

Speaker 3 (54:58):
Was disinterested necessary and having a perfectly succinct answer as
to like how we can do better. But the movie
definitely made Barbie complicit, like one hundred percent. I think
it said, yes, Barbie is complicit.

Speaker 1 (55:11):
In this, this, and this.

Speaker 3 (55:13):
The reasons that I feel and I know I keep saying,
like the word radical, I should like back off of
that because it's not that radical. But like, the reason
I did say that is because, like, this movie is
educating a massive population of people around ideas that they

(55:35):
otherwise never would.

Speaker 2 (55:36):
Have heard of.

Speaker 1 (55:37):
Like, oh, you mean like the twenty five thousand times
they say the word patriarchy. No, I hate that, hate that.

Speaker 3 (55:45):
Let me tell you if there's one thing that this
movie could have done without. It's like they needed to
say patriarchy and feminism like fifty times less, Like we
needed patriarchy said like two or three times, and feminism
said once and just for jokes, and the rest was
like it's like, girl, you don't have to say it,
say something else, you don't have to say it. Like
it's so annoying.

Speaker 1 (56:05):
I will never forgive Ken and possibly this movie as
a whole for making horses something that are tied to men.
I love that horses are for girls. It is horse girls,
not horse. Ken's okay as a crowd horse girl by
this message.

Speaker 3 (56:25):
Slash buy our horse girl t shirt on like a
Virgin four twenty sixty nine dot com. Things that were

(56:48):
radical on the educating level, Like if Trixy hadn't told us,
I never would have thought about the fact that dolls
only existed as baby dolls until Barbie came along. Did
not know that before Trixy not have known that before
this film. That's like, so that's like an immaculate way
to set up Barbie as like an actual kind of
like Trailblazer or whatever. But like the things about this

(57:12):
where I was just like WHOA. First of all, the
genitalia stuff. I was like, I can't believe they said that.
That felt so cool and weird and fun to do.
I thought that weird Barbie being in this movie was
also like, it's like showing this way that like you
play with your doll too hard and that happens to
your adulta sometimes is like that's a thing that happens,
Like people do that, and like for MATEL to be like, yes,

(57:34):
people do that, and it's okay if your Barbie is weird,
you know, Like but like with the feminism of it all, yeah, okay,
I think that the move the word feminism was said
too many times as and as I said, there were
too many monologues about it. It's just like we only
needed one monologue, but there were so many different tangents
that didn't work. But like for the movie to kind

(57:55):
of have this like war of the sexes, like the
Battle of the Sexes, I thought that was really smart.
And then for it to be a kind of swindling
of an entire gender to usurp them and to prevent
them from voting in the constitution, that's like, again, I'm
not going to say radical. I need to find a
different word to say it.

Speaker 1 (58:14):
But like that's transgressive word. Thank you, That is the word.

Speaker 3 (58:19):
That's extremely transgressive, Like for for Ken and the other
Ken's to have this like intercommunal conversation to be like
we are the arbiters of to basically figure out that
they are the arbiters of their own suffering, right like
that that is something that they are all responsible for,
even though they didn't realize it. That's like Bell Hooks.

Speaker 1 (58:38):
That's like literally Bell Hooksy and Bill Hooks wrote the script.

Speaker 3 (58:42):
Yes, but and that's the thing is like I wouldn't
be saying any of this ship but it's Greta Gerwig.
She's a smart fucking person. And this movie and Bombach
never forget that, right, right right? Bombak did cot this
movie with her right written by a man. I actually,
oh god, I god, I wanted to forget that. Greta

(59:06):
listen this. I like this movie so much that the
next day I went and watched Francis Ha because I
was like, let me, let me tell you, I forgot
what this movie was about, and so let me go
and watch it again. And it's like the opposite of
Barbie in that like Barbie is like what can Greta do?
With the most and Francis Haw is like, what can
Greta do with the least? Well, she didn't direct Francis Haw,

(59:26):
but she was. She didn't she write it.

Speaker 1 (59:29):
I don't know, I've never seen it.

Speaker 3 (59:30):
Actually, Yes, Noah directed this movie. Sorry, but they made
it together. Same with Barbie. It's like they made it together,
the creative collaborators. Something that I loved in thinking about
Francis hat to Barbie was like that Greta Gerwig's brain
is like really crowded, and I think that's cool. Like
I like that there was so much going on and
I don't know, it made me feel seen like my

(59:51):
brain is really crowded, you know. But yeah, no, I
guess it's probably Noah's brain too, huh.

Speaker 1 (59:57):
I do think I I think Whoever's brain. It was
like they're very clever. Like I didn't think this movie
was laugh out loud hilarious, but I thought it was
very clever and that is still very worthwhile to me
as an audience member, as a consumer of art. And

(01:00:18):
like again, I did really like the movie and I
had fun. I just I thought this movie was going
to be something that I would love. It felt like
primed for me to love it one thousand percent, and
it seems like everyone else I know is loving it

(01:00:39):
that much, and I didn't see that's fine, that's fine,
it's fine. It's fine to just like a movie and
really enjoy it. It's fine. But I'm not going to
like make Barbie my whole personality, you know, And that's okay.
I'm going to No, I'm not. I can't.

Speaker 3 (01:00:58):
That'd be way too basic, But I will say, okay.
When I walked out the movie, I obviously immediately thought
of you, and I was like, I know Rose is
gonna hate the volume of kind of talkie feminist stuff
that happened in this movie, as did I. I was like,
I know that's something Rose is gonna respond negatively too.
But I thought that you were just I thought you
were gonna love like weird Barbie. And I thought you

(01:01:20):
were gonna love like the contemplations of death, and I
thought the existentialism again transgressive. I thought you were gonna
love like the fashion moments. I thought you were gonna
love the fact that like that, like that there's no
the plate, the things that are like child's play, like
that there's no water and you pretend to eat food.

Speaker 1 (01:01:36):
I was like, that's very rose. But you know what,
I would have loved all that stuff if I hadn't
seen it all before the movie came out. Yeah, China. Yeah.
Was given away about this movie in trailers, in profiles
and interviews, and like, that's part of the problem is
the insane lead up to this movie. We were given

(01:01:58):
so much because this movie had to be a huge success,
so they pulled every lever they had, and to me,
that's too many levers. I needed a lot more of
this to be shrouded in mystery, because the stuff with
like no juice in the cup was like in the

(01:02:19):
New Yorker story about Mattel or like in one of
the Margo Robi profiles, and like the you know, like
all of those other all of these other little things
were all spoiled. And you know, me, I don't really
care about spoilers, but for something like this, I wish
some of the magic had been reserved for the movie

(01:02:42):
theater experience, because this is a movie that is really magical.
But we knew the conceit of it so for so long.
See when that first trailer was released, But.

Speaker 3 (01:02:55):
That's the thing is, we actually didn't really know exactly
the plot. Like we saw a lot of images, and
I agree that there was too much. There was too
much spoiled for the movie. I agree, But here's the thing.
Everything that was spoiled for me personally was just the
tip of the iceberg of what I experienced in the
maximalism that was that movie. I you know, I just

(01:03:16):
I respectfully disagree, And that's fine.

Speaker 1 (01:03:19):
And I think it's great that this movie prompts these
conflicting responses from us and that it still made us
feel things. I'm so glad you loved it, and I
do think it will stand the test of time. In
a lot of ways. For me, this movie ended up
being a lot quieter and more emotional. And I think

(01:03:41):
the thing that I will take from it is that
moment sitting in the car with my mom after the movie,
and like that is still a worthwhile reason to make
art for me to be able to have that moment
with my mom, And that's beautiful.

Speaker 3 (01:03:55):
Yeah, And that's like and the movie like it's it's
the movie like orbits around really really dark ideas around
real womanhood and really like existential kind of like even
defeatist ideas about womanhood. Like the the like a lot
of the characters are like, is it even worth it
to try and fight something so structurally as big as

(01:04:18):
the patriarchy? Like is this even a battle that can
be fought?

Speaker 1 (01:04:22):
You know?

Speaker 3 (01:04:23):
And the movie is kind of like no, like patriarchy
is never going to be solved in our lifetime, but like,
isn't it worth it to try? Like That's what I
love about the movie is that the movie is basically
just like, isn't it worth it to try and make
things better? And in the kind of act of that
make yourself happy and make yourself believe that things can

(01:04:43):
be changed Like that, to me, this is the transgressive
element that I'm talking to you about. Is like there's
something about that that is kind of about like feminist
organizing ideas, Like that's really cool. But outside of that,
most importantly, Phoebe is asking on the lodometer, what is ken?
And would you suck Ken?

Speaker 1 (01:05:04):
Oh? Absolutely, I would suck Ken. I did not find
Ryan Gosling attractive in any of the lead up to
this film. WHOA, it's not like I thought he was ugly,
but I won't. No, but it's not but I wasn't
like would suck? But then watching the movie, I was like,
would suck.

Speaker 3 (01:05:20):
Yeah, another important question from Phoebe. Can you talk about
if you would if you were in the movie, what
Barbie would you be?

Speaker 1 (01:05:28):
Do you mean okay, so I'm gonna you kind of
would be.

Speaker 3 (01:05:30):
Existential thoughts of death Barbie.

Speaker 1 (01:05:32):
Well, no, no, but let's make up our own because
I don't want to say like I would be like
Asa Ray or yeah. No.

Speaker 2 (01:05:38):
Oh.

Speaker 1 (01:05:38):
Also I thought I thought do a leaper mermaid. Barbie
was so fucking lame. Well she only had I wish
another thing that I wish hadn't been spoiled. That would
have been a gag if it had been a surprise.

Speaker 3 (01:05:50):
Well, she was exactly. She should have been a surprise.
She was in the movie as much as she was
in the trailer.

Speaker 1 (01:05:55):
But again, like they needed her to market it, and
like that's why, like at the end of the day,
you will never be able to unlink this film from
its capitalist propaganda, and like whatever, that's fine. It's literally based.

Speaker 3 (01:06:07):
On adult So you would be fan fiction famous, Barbie.

Speaker 1 (01:06:11):
Well, I've never been fan fiction fames.

Speaker 3 (01:06:13):
That's what I'm saying. This is Barbie world, Okay, in
Barbie World, fan fiction famous maybe, Sorry, I'm just projecting
this onto you. I'll let you answer your own question.

Speaker 1 (01:06:22):
I think I'm like suicidal Barbie. No, not even like
thoughts of death Barbie. No, I'm like impatient Barbie inient
Barbie or no, no, no here, I'm malgoth Barbie. Mal
goth Barbie. You're mal goth Barbie. It comes with like
a hot topic diorama. Yeah, and it is. It is

(01:06:42):
like a collab with hot topic. It's yeah, exclusively in stores.

Speaker 3 (01:06:46):
She comes with like seventy two rubber bracelets.

Speaker 1 (01:06:49):
Yes, and scene bangs, and like a studded choker, a
laptop in which she's writing her Harry Potter fan fiction.

Speaker 3 (01:06:56):
She probably has like bonded genes that like can zip off,
like they're element that can Like there has to be
a kind of you know, a kind of like uh attachable,
detachable element to it.

Speaker 1 (01:07:07):
She has a functional penis and like a dull kitchen
knife that she stole that she doesn't exactly cut herself
with no, but like but like touch lines in her.

Speaker 3 (01:07:21):
Skin with yeah, yeah, just lines, just lines, Okay.

Speaker 1 (01:07:24):
Okay, So what Barbie would you be?

Speaker 3 (01:07:26):
My Barbie would be I don't know, like caffeinated emails Barbie,
like I don't know, like circling back Barbie, checking in Barbie,
but I just want to follow up on this Barbie.

Speaker 1 (01:07:37):
Oh, following up Barbie. God, I know, like space Barbie.

Speaker 3 (01:07:41):
That is kind of my reputation in previous working years.
But like I hate doing that now, Like I don't
want to follow up with anybody on anything, Like I
hate doing it.

Speaker 1 (01:07:50):
I don't want to do it. Please don't make me
do it. Yeah, is my actual office Barbie.

Speaker 3 (01:07:57):
My Barbie would be like trans girls slut organizer. I
don't know, I'm that's very literal from you.

Speaker 1 (01:08:05):
Yeah, yeah, yeah exactly. Let's let's rethink that you're gonna be.
I think you're you're on the list, Barbie. You're on
the list. Oh, you're like in line outside of the club,
that's the line. But you're walking up to the bouncer
at the club. You've got like your little like you're
in like a Chapololwena skirt. Yes, chapoo awena for Mattel

(01:08:27):
and it comes with like a life size skirt for
your owner Rick Owens Heels. For sure, do you own
Rick Owens Heels? No? Of course, I see you as
a I don't see you as a rick Owens girl.
I'm not here of cyro heels. No, no, no, I'm
I'm That's what I'm saying. I'm reaching high. I can't
afford Rick Owens. So Barbie has the rick Owens, and

(01:08:48):
I know that Rick makes my size. I guess I
don't have to worry about you size if I'm a Barbie. Actually,
so if I wanted to wear, You've got a Barbie size.

Speaker 3 (01:08:55):
Okay, So if I'm wearing anything I want, then I'm
definitely wearing those bo Takee platform boots, the ones that
like go up your knee that are just black Chipovi skirt,
a little bag of coke tucked inside my telfar, Like
the bag of coke is going to be like like
a quarter the size of a thumbnail, Like it's got
to be super super small and really cute.

Speaker 1 (01:09:15):
And a phone and the screen has like a painted
on message that it's a textentage just says where are you?
Where are you? Custom mark?

Speaker 3 (01:09:22):
Question mark, question mark on the list, Barbie on the list,
Barbie and Maul coming.

Speaker 1 (01:09:26):
To target near you in twenty twenty. Number Barbie's slide
intoward TMS and let us know what you thought of Barbie?
Did you agree with my take? Did you agree with
frands take? Are you somewhere in the middle? What Barbie

(01:09:47):
are you? We want to know. Also, you can be
a consumerist shill and buy our merch at Like a
Virgin four twenty sixty nine dot com. And you can
become the patron at Patrio dot com slash like a
Virgin for weekly bonus episodes and now weekly and just
like that recaps. Follow us at Like a Virgin four

(01:10:09):
twenty sixty nine on Instagram, and you can follow me
anywhere you want at.

Speaker 3 (01:10:13):
Rose Damu, you can follow me at Frands Squishco anywhere
you like.

Speaker 1 (01:10:19):
Like a Virgin is an iHeartRadio production. Our producer is
Phoebe Unter, with support from Lindsay Hoffman and Nikki Etour.
Until next week.

Speaker 3 (01:10:27):
Bye Barbie, Bye Barbie, Bye Barbie, Bye Barbie.

Speaker 1 (01:10:33):
Bye Baby, Bye Barbie. Nice. I was hoping you would
go low for that last one. And here's a clip
from this week's Patreon episode. You can become a patron
at Patreon dot com slash like a Virgin.

Speaker 4 (01:10:50):
Well, there's like artistic time, or there's like drag time.
I think trans time is like quantum leap, like realms,
you know, the walls between the world's becoming thin and
people transversing those you know.

Speaker 1 (01:11:09):
I think it's Adam Sandler.

Speaker 3 (01:11:11):
Yeah, you're combining, You're combining Bruce Almighty and Click, which
like they are kind of the same movie in a
lot of ways too, like like Sis had Dad, like
wish fulfillment controlling everything in his life.

Speaker 2 (01:11:28):
You know what, though, this is horrible. I love Adam
Sandler and I love his movies.

Speaker 3 (01:11:32):
No Please, and people die for click people.

Speaker 1 (01:11:35):
People are click pills, like a little.

Speaker 2 (01:11:38):
Sad but like happy Gilmore. I'm sorry.

Speaker 4 (01:11:42):
She eats Billy Madison. She eats like Billy Madison is amazing.

Speaker 1 (01:11:48):
I've actually never seen The House That Possible.

Speaker 2 (01:11:51):
Oh, it's so funny. I mean, it's a really good movie.

Speaker 3 (01:11:55):
I love that we're talking about Billy Madison, which is
kind of the opposite of Barbie culture.

Speaker 1 (01:11:59):
I don't know here, I don't know. I think they're,
you know, in the same realm. I'm sure we could
figure out a way to connect to them. Do we
think Adam Sandler has ever played with dolls? Uh?

Speaker 4 (01:12:14):
You know, I would love Adam Sandler's a celebrity that
I think at this point, I hope gets like a
legacy doll. You know, they everybody's so focused on getting
a star on the Walk of Fame or whatever. I'm sorry,
having a doll is five thousand times been in that.

Speaker 1 (01:12:29):
Oh yeah, I it must be. Like I think I
always like when you see whatever new sort of like
diva character actress has like been swept up into the
Marvel Cinematic universe. The thing they always seem the most
gagged by is when they get an action figure. So
I imagine that's like a really like insane experience, one
that you have some familiarity with.

Speaker 4 (01:12:52):
Oh yeah, like winning Drivers is cool. A lot of
things have been cool. That seeing the doll for the
first time was like it was like it was like
fast forward, rewind and fast forward through everything in my
life up into that moment. It was so crazy, but
it's still cool. I mean, they're definitely out there sold out.
I bought twenty five, which I know is insane, but

(01:13:13):
I just didn't want to run out and I wanted
to be able to give them as professional gifts to
like everyone in my life who I felt want.

Speaker 2 (01:13:19):
Should to have one.

Speaker 4 (01:13:21):
And I still probably still have maybe five leftover, because
I only have one of those Funko pops and that
those like are impossible to get.

Speaker 1 (01:13:28):
Now, okay, well, have you ever made two of your
dolls Scissor.

Speaker 2 (01:13:34):
I haven't made to my doll Scissor, but I love
we have one.

Speaker 4 (01:13:37):
We have the prototype out on a shelf at my
drag studio and we have some of this other celebrity
dolls there.

Speaker 2 (01:13:43):
You know, we have a share.

Speaker 4 (01:13:44):
We have a Donnie Osmond, we have Twiggy. So sometimes
it's fun to like have them interact or you know
what I wanted to do and this was so I
should have because my doll is by integrity, the same
people we made Victor RuPaul doll at the middle of
Poor Doll. And when I was doing Queen of the
Universe this year, you know the new judges Melb Scary Spice,
and I was like, I have to bring a scary

(01:14:05):
because I have all of the Scary Spice dolls they've
ever made. I said, I have to bring one, and
I have to get a picture of her and I
with our dolls. And I did not have the I
did not have the strength and the bravery to do that.

Speaker 3 (01:14:15):
Did you bring the doll and then like pussy out
or did you like what was the day of the deal.

Speaker 4 (01:14:21):
Well, David told me to bring one of to bring
one of the dolls in the packaging and be like
you have to have her sign it to you, like
you have to And it was like okay.

Speaker 2 (01:14:29):
So I got her to do that on the last
day of filming.

Speaker 4 (01:14:31):
But I didn't have the courage to pick out because
I thought, oh, she and I maybe do some kind
of TikTok or something.

Speaker 2 (01:14:37):
I don't know. I was just trying to be young
and trying to create content.

Speaker 1 (01:14:40):
Well there's always next season, babe. Yeah, maybe let's make a.

Speaker 2 (01:14:45):
Yeah, there's got to be more singing drag queens in
the world.

Speaker 3 (01:14:48):
You have had Rue sign one of your dolls though,
thus you know, appreciating the value of that doll immensely, Thank.

Speaker 2 (01:14:55):
You, Rue. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:14:56):
Well, I have all the I have a bunch of
the RuPaul Integrity dolls from the nine, and I have
the new Integrity dolls from the twenty you know, tens
and beyond. And I have the Amanda doll, which I
think was only available at FAO Schwartz. And one time
I asked Amanda's like I'm looking for one of your dolls.
Where do I get one? She was like, I don't
even know anyone has one. And I found one on
eBay and David bought it for me.

Speaker 2 (01:15:17):
It was like eight hundred dollars. But it's amazing. It
has a pussy, the tits are perfect, Like.

Speaker 4 (01:15:23):
It's amazing. It's an amazing doll. Because I love Barbie,
but I love all dolls. I collect all types, even
though Barbie is like my number one.

Speaker 3 (01:15:30):
Obviously, an Amandola Poor doll that is like a prize possession,
Like did the doll of a doll?

Speaker 2 (01:15:36):
Did it come with it?

Speaker 3 (01:15:38):
Did it come with like the six or seven other
like you know kind of bottle boy twink dolls that
come with the Amandela Poor doll, you know the ones
that hold the champagne and shake, you know, like.

Speaker 4 (01:15:47):
One the one that holds the flash yeah, the one
that just holds the flash yeah yeah. The one that's
just like eighteen year old eighteen year old non binary
intern with like flash.

Speaker 1 (01:15:58):
Yea yeah, who's like and they both kind of smell
like cigarettes and like cotton candy. Totally