August 17, 2023 • 48 mins
- Fran & Rose play doctor and discuss having a hot doctor, Callen-Lorde ettiquite, FFS and other tidbits from the medical industrial complex
- Plus, a clip from this week's Patreon episode, which includes the latest installment of Rose's Book Corner and an introduction to Fran's Nonfiction Shelf, thoughts on last week's Lizzo controversy and more. Subscribe for multiple bonus episodes a week!
Shop our summer merch line. How do you feel about doctors? Tag our finsta @likeavirgin42069
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
Have I fucked a doctor?
Speaker 2 (00:05):
I have not fucked a doctor. Have I fucked someone
with a doctorate?
Speaker 1 (00:10):
I'm sure you have.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
That sounds more like me.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
She's Sheen, I'm me, No.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
May not my name? Yoo yoh? What is your childhood?
Speaker 1 (00:25):
I am a choky?
Speaker 2 (00:29):
What's going down before?
Speaker 1 (00:31):
Like you?
Speaker 2 (00:32):
So round, Hey, Virgins. So this week we are skipping
the chit chat and getting right to the meat and
potatoes of the conversation. We got a lot going on
this week. Lucky for you if you are deprived of
(00:56):
some news catch up. We always have our patreon available
to you at patreon dot com slash like a Virgin,
So get into that while you await our return for
chit chat. Today we are talking about doctors and medical things.
A lot of uh deep trans personal conversations happening here.
(01:19):
It's a bit of a fun and different episode for
us because this is like a Virgin, the show where
we give yesterday's pop culture today's takes.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
As always, I'm Fran Toronto, I'm Rose DomU.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
Are you ready to talk about the medical industrial complex?
Speaker 1 (01:35):
Yeah? Cough twice, got it? Okay, you want to play
doctor Fran?
Speaker 2 (01:42):
Actually, maybe you should play the doctor.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
Okay, we're gonna play doctor, but not in I guess
the sexy way, although I never played like sexy doctor.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
I'm not promising anything. I can't. I can't not promise sexual.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
So it could get heated in here, heated by on
tip tip tip on hard floors. Okay, so let's play doctor.
I'm going to be the doctor. Okay, Okay, So you're
you're like in the You're in the room, You're in
the examination room, and you've been waiting bear asked for
like forty five minutes, at least forty minutes, and someone
(02:15):
has already come in and misgendered me. Yes, okay, scoom,
that's the door opening. Hi mixed terrada.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
But I don't know if that's what my medical forms say.
But I really appreciate the gender affirming way you just
addressed me. Thank you doctor.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
Well, you're wearing a shirt that says everybody knows I'm
a transsexual, so I figured it was a safe assumption
to make thank you do. So, Fran, is it fran
to tell me? Tell me what brings you in here today?
Speaker 2 (02:45):
So I recently had a gonorrhea and chlamydia scare, and
I feel like you know, because I've slept with these partners,
I should get tested and maybe also get a shot.
I also need my hormone levels checked. And there's something
weird on my foot. If you could also look at.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
It, great, So you know, without examining you, I think
I can diagnose you. And the diagnosis I would give
is that you're a whore.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
Doctor, I would say, that's a completely accurate diagnosis. Thank
you so much for your time.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
Yeah, and you know what, I got the medicine for that.
Oh and what's the medicine this fucking checock?
Speaker 2 (03:25):
I got a fever and the only cure is more chic.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
I mean, this is literally the way my appointment at
callan Lord went weeks ago.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
Oh you got sucked by your doctor, doctor in a way,
in a way I feel like, honestly, there's something when
you said that, it kind of reminded me of that
scene in.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
This fucking cock continue, sorry, reminded.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
Me of what was the Rachel Vice show series that
we just watched with. Oh uh, what the fuck is it?
Called Ringers? Which I never finished, which you never finished?
So dead Ringers a show we already discussed. There's a
scene in it an immaculate scene in it where one
of the Rachel vices is talking to this guy and
his wife in a doctor's office, and the wife briefly
(04:11):
leaves and then she basically in a matter of seconds,
goes him into pulling out his cock so she can
look at it. It's so good. It's one of the
best doctor scenes I've ever seen in my test. Did
you ever watch grays Anatomy?
Speaker 1 (04:27):
Of course I watched.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
I have watched zero episodes. What can you tell me?
Speaker 1 (04:32):
So it's about surgeon and.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
It's about mostly.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
It's about Sandra. Well, it's about this girl, Meredith Gray,
who is part of a class of residents who come
to a hospital, and it's about them becoming doctors and
also falling in love and you know, making lots of
bad decisions and it I'm sure it really does not
(04:59):
resemble the medical field in any way in any way,
but it is very entertaining. I want to hold space
for our audience as I'm sure that thinking about doctors
or the medical field in any way, or the pharmacypally
(05:21):
probably somewhat traumatic.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
So you know, this will not really be a triggering episode,
though we're gonna shoo sh about how horrible is.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
Honestly, doctors are the wa U do Doctors are people
who ostensibly exist to help us, and in practice are
frequently horrible.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
Yeah, And the thing that we need to know about
them is that generally speaking, they are running a business
and a lot of them aren't interested in your medical
care at all. And I think that honestly, you know, doctors,
you know, have gotten this societal have achieved this societal
placement where like they're questions so infrequently and they're they're
(06:13):
just like, oh, yeah, whatever you say goes because you
went to a bajillion years of school and could afford that,
and now you are in this place and probably make
zillions of dollars doing it. But everyone should be skeptical
of their doctors.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
Did you ever want to be a doctor? No, thank god,
No I did. I wanted to be a surgeon, mostly
because of Grey's anatomy. But I but I realized very
quickly that I was not smart enough because you have
to wait, very smart and remember so much stuff to
be a doctor, and that there was no way I
could stand for that long to do surgery.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
Oh yeah, you, I mean, when you're a doctor, you
have to be on your feet for like twelve, fourteen,
nineteen hours a day, Like it's insane.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
Can't do that. That's why they wear such ugly shoes.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
That's why they wear such ugly shoes and such ugly
clothes too. I mean, I know people are trying to
like really up the scrubs game. They're like these influencer
scrubs figs or whatever, but like those are not that
cute either.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
So I used to wear scrubs as a kid a
lot because my dad, my dad worked at the hospital,
and I don't know, because he used to like bring
them home and whenever we spent the weekend at his house,
like after my parents got divorced, like that's always what
I would wear to sleep was in the hospital. I
do think I've talked about this before, my intense love
(07:29):
for hospital food because we used to go visit my
dad for the hospital at the hospital, and he would
take us to the cafeteria.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
Do you still like hospital food?
Speaker 1 (07:38):
I do have this weird appreciation for kind of institutionalized
food that is made in huge batches, like airplane food,
like airplane food, cafeteria food of any kind, and hospital
food really gives me that When was the last time
(08:00):
you were in a hospital as a patient that wasn't
just like an appointment, Like when was the last time
you needed care from the hospital in a sort of
extended way as a patient? I mean, have I already
told you the story about when my long spontaneously collapsed? No?
Speaker 2 (08:17):
Apparently No. Okay, let me see if I can tell
the short version. The short version is I was in college.
I was working as an eighteen hour credit student. I
was also a closeted smoker, which was something that I
kept for my boyfriend at the time. And it's just
an extremely stressed out, very skinny person. I was probably
like one hundred and thirty five one hundred and forty
pounds as a consequence of a recently healed eating disorder
(08:41):
back in twenty whatever the fuck?
Speaker 1 (08:43):
Okay I rushed music videos.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
Sorry, yeah, I'm not skinny. I mean I'm still skinny,
but whatever. Anyways, this is all relevant information because one
day I was in the library of studying for an
Italian test because I took Italian because I had read
epre Love and thought it was a phenomenal piece of.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
Oh my god, I was watching epray Love this morning.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
What what for work for? What it was for work?
And I leaned over the back of my chair and
I heard a little pup and I was like, what
was that, James, Well, what was that, James? And then
I leaned back over and I was like, oh, like
my back was cracking.
Speaker 1 (09:17):
That was weird.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
And then I was experiencing what was probably the worst
possible pain I've ever experienced in my entire life. And
I was like, what the fuck just happened? And then
in my head, I was like, is this what it
feels like when people throw their back out? Like is
am I experiencing like back problems for the first time?
And anyways, I, you know, was too poor, like I
(09:38):
it was at a time and honestly still is that
time where it's like I'm not going to go to
the doctor's office just to give them fifty dollars to
like tell me that like, I, you know, broke my
back or whatever, or that my back is like hurting.
It's just like, yeah, I knew that. But I went
two full days wandering around campus being an eighteen hour
credit student. I was a commuter biker. I jogged every
(09:58):
single day five mile. I did all of that for
two days and an excruciating kind of quote unquote back pain,
which I found out was not a back pain when
I finally did go to urgent care and then they
did an X ray on me and they were like, yeah,
so you had a spontaneous pneumothorax. You literally only have
one lung right now and have had one lung for
(10:19):
two days. You need to go to the er immediately.
Would you like an ambulance? And they fixed it like
fifteen minutes. It's actually a really simple surgery, and it's
an incredibly common thing that happens to a very small
number of people who are usually stressed and or really
skinny and or smokers. And I was all three at
the time.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
Did you have to be put under anesthesia?
Speaker 2 (10:40):
I don't think I did need to, but I was like,
you're doing that. I'm like not going to be awake
for this, like I do. I can't experience that.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
Being put under anesthesia is so cunty. It's so nice,
Like I I got something done in when was it
like twenty twenty one? That's I don't know if you
remember this. I had a.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
Little and.
Speaker 1 (11:06):
I just like that feeling of like being conscious one
moment and then suddenly awake another moment, completely somewhere else
under very different circumstances is such a gag.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
Yeah, wait, okay.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
That's how I wish I fell asleep every night. Okay,
I want to be put under anesthesia every night. That
would be very bad for your brain. Cares, but who cares.
Speaker 2 (11:32):
Estheticians are probably making bank for not that big of
a skill set.
Speaker 1 (11:35):
Right.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
You have to go to so much less school to
be an esthetician, right.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
Or an estheticianth ansty ziologist.
Speaker 2 (11:42):
Yeah, that's what it is. That's what they're called. I
am Okay. Have you ever had a doctor that you
liked slash? Is it our doctor from La Doctor V?
Speaker 1 (11:53):
Doctor V? I loved doctor V and I do miss him,
although so I recently restarted care at Colin Lore because
since I moved back here, I have been saying over
and over that I wanted to find a doctor at
a private practice. I really didn't want to go to
a queer health center. And then I realized my estrogym
was running out, and I was like, fuck, I guess
I just have to go back to coun lord, because
(12:15):
it's just the easiest thing, even though it is not
easy in literally any way. But I'm going to the
Brooklyn one, so that makes things like marginally better. But yeah,
I really missed doctor V, our gay ass doctor from.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
LA, the gayest doctor, such a competent, like runs his
practice like a machine, a well oiled machine.
Speaker 1 (12:37):
I miss And he's hot. He is hot.
Speaker 2 (12:40):
Yeah, he was hot.
Speaker 1 (12:41):
I got recommended him from and it was like, this
is a gay doctor that all the girls go all
the girls go to.
Speaker 2 (12:48):
Yeah kind of yeah, and I he So I worked
with doctor V for a bit and then there was
someone else in his practice, and doctor Jake Collins, who
then became my primary care physician and also put me
on estradeal honestly, which is kind of a big deal.
And my whole experience of that was so seamless and
easy and unquestioned. I loved it, and I love doctor Collins,
and honestly, so this is in COVID era and so
(13:11):
everybody was still in masks one hundred percent of the time,
so I didn't really know what doctor Collins looked like.
But one day I was scrolling through Instagram, and turns
out he's like a hot doctor influencer and he has
a kick in bod and the most gorgeous face I've
ever looked at in my entire life, one that I've
never seen because it's always been under a mask. And
I was like, what the fuck this man just had
(13:32):
his like rubber gloved fingers in my whole, like checking
for prostate cancer or whatever. Yeah, but I would love
to fuck a doctor. I would love to marry a doctor.
I would love to marry it.
Speaker 1 (13:44):
Because they would not be home a lot.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
Yeah exactly.
Speaker 1 (13:46):
Oh, and they would get me, you know, they would
prescribe me whatever I want to wait, you know, those
pills forever.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
You know what really fulfills this fantasy for me of
being married to a doctor is the kids are all right,
starring on at Benning and Julian More because Annette Benning
is famously kind of the tied up, stuck up like
work bitch doctor mom, and like her like over commitment
to work is like part of what is like wedging
her relationship to Anette Benning that in the fact that
(14:14):
she's like fucking the gardener. But I just remember bearing
witness to their relationship and how loving and supportive it was,
and I was like, yeah, you know, in a gay relationship,
a lot of times there's an Annette and there's a
Julianne Moore, and I'm always the Annette. But I would love.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
Oh and I'm the julian of this relationship. I'm definitely
the Julianne. I would I'm on the redhead.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
I would disagree because you're very get shit done. But yeah,
I guess, like on paper because your redhead, you like
legally do have to be Julianne Moore. However, I would
say I wish I was the Julianne Moore. And I
feel like I would like to have a relationship where
I'm the Julianne Moore and the one that's just kind
of like, I don't really know what I'm doing for
my career. I'll start like four businesses. Can I buy
a truck?
Speaker 1 (14:55):
Mommy?
Speaker 2 (14:56):
Like that's what I want to be, but I'm not.
Then maybe one day, maybe one day, I'll be taken
care of by a daddy.
Speaker 1 (15:02):
Doctor. You know what doctors always make me think of
is my is Highlights magazine? Do you remember Highlight? You
remember it was like the magazine for parents and it
was always in the pediatricians office.
Speaker 2 (15:15):
Yeah, with that geo kids, Yeah, I mean a Nickelodeon magazine.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
Did you grow up hating going to the doctor.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
Yeah, I'm pretty sure my parents didn't have We didn't
have fights about it, which was great, Like I knew
I had to go, but I hated. Yeah, I hated doctors.
The only doctors I enjoyed going to were eye doctors.
I think the I think weird. I think taking eye
exams is really fun.
Speaker 1 (15:38):
Do you are you squeamish about giving blood?
Speaker 2 (15:42):
No, I'm not. I'm a little bit of a baby sometimes,
but like I just look at my phone now and
I'm fine because I feel like I have to get
blood work done all the time because I'm gay.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
What about you, I like actively enjoy giving blood.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
You're like peah, I mean, oh, that's all you're gonna take.
Speaker 1 (16:00):
Well, I do have some more. Something that's happened in
the past couple of years is I apparently my veins
are really hard to find, either because I have like
I don't know, like thick skin, or they're like really
recessed or something. So it usually takes the nurse a
really long time to find my veins and toms. Sometimes
they will have to insert the needle in many times
(16:22):
before they find you love in. I love it a
little bit. I mean I really don't have a problem
with like doing doing my shots. You know, when I
inject estrogen, I I just like am not squeamish about
blood all Like I never flinch when a needle gets
put in me. The other day, I was getting tattooed,
(16:44):
and like my friend who was doing my tattoos, like
kept asking are you okay? Are you okay? And I
was like, yeah, I'm fine. I mean up until like
the fourth I haven't even seen your new tattoo yet.
I have five new tattoos.
Speaker 2 (16:55):
Okay, we'll see them after I fall asleep during tattoo appointments,
especially now that I get stick in pokes from my
friend Elliott. Those are like jet they feel nice, they
feel like good.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
The first four were fine, and then once we.
Speaker 3 (17:07):
Got to my leg that started to become a little
bit of an issue.
Speaker 1 (17:31):
Obviously. Like when you're trans you know, doctor, and I think,
just like being queer in general, like doctors become a
much bigger part of your life. Because before I started
medically transitioning, I saw a doctor you know, on a
like a good decade, you know, once every couple of years,
(17:53):
you know when I was a kid, obviously I saw
I saw a doctor like once a year for a physical.
But you know, being trans like you have to be
much more aware of what's going on in your body.
And then also if you factor being on prep into it,
then you have to see a doctor every three months
to get your blood work done. I I don't know,
(18:15):
Like I think I now feel a lot less intimidated
by medical stuff than before I started transitioning. Like there
were definitely in my sort of like lawless twenties from
college to when I started transitioning. Like in my later twenties,
(18:36):
I like I didn't go to the doctor for years.
I like had no idea what was going on in
my body. But I was also young enough that it
didn't really matter, Like I was always bouncing back from this.
That's kind of tea, Like we really should get regularly
checked up, especially when it comes to like screenings and
cancer stuff, but for the most part in your early twenties,
like you do not need to be This is like
such terrible advice, but it's true. You may so much
(18:57):
to just visit the doctor because you're supposed to as
especially when it comes to like dentists and I doctors
and all this shit, and then you end up throwing
away so much money on copays in medicine you don't
actually need or like things that you never asked for
and you don't need it, like you're gonna be fine
through your twenties, like go to the hour when you
need to. But now in my mid thirties, I'm medicated,
boots boots down.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
And let me tell you, just buy within an inch
of my life medicated because health insurance.
Speaker 1 (19:25):
Don't even get me started. I'm still on my California
health insurance have not changed.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
So you're paying like six hundred dollars a month.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
No, no, no, I'm paying like nothing. Oh. I'm on the
health insurance that I got when I left my last
job and went on unemployment. Oh, I pay like nothing.
And you were still covered by doctor V No no, no,
I stopped going to doctor V.
Speaker 2 (19:48):
Oh but what but didn't Oh so you didn't have
your insurance?
Speaker 1 (19:51):
No no no oh I see No I didn't do like
the I didn't switch my health insurance. I went on
like the very basic like Medicaid insurance I see, or medicare,
which one is for old people, Medicare or Medicaid.
Speaker 2 (20:05):
I think Medicare is for old people. Okay, so Medicaid
but oh no, no, no, a Medicare is for us. Medicaid
is for.
Speaker 1 (20:12):
Old Well, it hasn't been a problem yet. I mean
I haven't been to the doctor a lot this year.
I only went for the first time outside of like
going to urgent care when I had strapped throat. I
just went to Calen Lord for the first time to
start care there again, and like they didn't even have
(20:33):
my current email or phone number, like it is it's
been a while. And I the day that I went
to calen Lord, I saw two people I knew, and
then afterwards I tweeted something about Callen Lord and someone
I mutuals with messaged me and was like I sent
(20:55):
this to my friend at calen Lord and they were like, oh,
Rose Damu was just here.
Speaker 2 (20:59):
So it's like everyone knows. It's so bad.
Speaker 1 (21:01):
It's so annoying, and like that sounds very annoying to say, like,
but it is like the place where there's high the
highest likelihood that someone will recognize one of us, because
like it is very It's like when I went to
see Caroline, Polo Jack and Ethyl Kane, Like I knew
that was a place where people were going to come
up to me and like know who I was because
they listened to this podcast or like follow me on
(21:23):
Twitter or whatever. And the Venn diagram between people who
go to a Caroline Polcheck Ethyl Kane show and people
who go to Callen Lord is basically a circle. And
that is honestly like the last place where I want
to have an awareness that people have an awareness of me,
(21:44):
you know, And like that's very like not a relatable problem,
So I don't want to give it any more airtime.
But it is weird too, because like when you are
doing medical stuff, especially as a trans person, you are
making yourself extremely vulnerable. And that's not when I want
to be worried about like someone being like like oh
(22:05):
my god, I love oh my god, I love your Twitter.
Speaker 2 (22:07):
Yeah, it's like, don't I mean to have the sense
to like not walk out to or acknowledge people at
the doctor when they're at the doctors. I hope people
at least know that, But like, no, I experienced the
same thing. I love Calm Lord. I stand like a
lot of the fundraising or organizing that they do, but
for my needs I go to APACHA, which is a
comparable like medical initiative for trans people, and I get
(22:32):
recognized there. I've seen people I know there. But I
will say, from my experience, because everybody I'm talking to
or potentially being recognized by are like queer trans, it
is a little easier to be there because I'm like, Okay,
we're all here for probably the same or similar reason.
So I don't feel a type of way about it.
But yeah, I think it's not much to ask for
(22:54):
privacy in your place of medical care. You know what
I mean. That shouldn't be It shouldn't be a thing.
Speaker 1 (23:01):
I know. It feels like doctor patient confidentiality. I extend
to like being at any kind of medical center.
Speaker 2 (23:08):
I'm also realizing, actually that what you've named is actually
such a problem that I do. I do wear sunglasses
when I go into the doctor's office because I'm like,
I I wear hat, I wear sunglasses. I was like,
I don't want I don't want anybody talking.
Speaker 1 (23:19):
He was like, going to Colin Lord a couple of
weeks ago. I made sure that I like looked okay,
because I was like, I know, I'm going to at
the very least run into people that I know.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
And when we went to the doctor, when we went
to doctor V, honey, we were stunting. I love. I
looked so good for doctor V. I was like, I
was like, this is a nice little medical facility, and
these are some nice young men touching me.
Speaker 1 (23:46):
I miss doctor V so much and the way he said.
Speaker 3 (23:49):
But but boot.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
There was a period when I was in college when
I used to watch a lot of surgery videos. What.
Speaker 2 (24:00):
Yeah, but this was after you already decided you're not
going to be a surgeon anymore.
Speaker 1 (24:04):
Yeah, but like like in my in my like early
to mid twenties, I used to watch surgery videos on
YouTube a lot for fun. Yeah. Ah, yeah, like the
that's kind of gory, like open heart surgery.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
So you're not squeamish about that.
Speaker 1 (24:20):
I actually have become a lot more squeamish in my
old age. Yeah, I see, I can't do It's not
the gore that bothers me. It's sort of like weird
body stuff that bothers me, like weird holes and things
like that.
Speaker 2 (24:37):
I have a question, Yeah, are there weird holes? H
Are there any sort of medical appointments or plans you
are making for yourself in any sort of future that
you have to then go to a doctor for.
Speaker 1 (24:55):
Are you asking me if I want to get gender.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
You and I have talked about FFS before, and at
a certain point you really wanted it, and now you
kind of don't. I don't know if that's on the you.
Speaker 1 (25:05):
No, I do want it, and I'm kind of in
a moment of like looking at my life and figuring
out what I want now, being like a year out
from having left a corporate job and like being a
full time creative and something I want that you and
I have talked about is like I do think I
want to have a job again, And a big part
of that is that I do kind of kick myself
(25:28):
for not taking advantage of having really good healthcare when
I had a corporate job and just getting a lot
of gender affirming surgery. So that is part of the
appeal to me of having a job again, is just
like being able to get a lot of really cunty
plastic surgery, and like, that is something I want and
(25:48):
I have gone so back and forth on it because
I am one of the few trans women I know
who's had no gender affirming surgery, and I would wow,
would you say few, you would say few. I think
most trans women I know well have had stuff done
(26:14):
and like, you know, I don't think we need to
talk about like our friends and I've not done, but
you know, like it is a passage now expect it is,
it is expected, and like especially too, I don't know,
but kinds of dolls, yeah, certain kinds of dolls, and like,
I have gone back and forth so much over you know,
(26:36):
the past seven years about whether it's something I want
or not, and I've I've swung really far on the
pendulum both ways at different times, and I I guess
I am at a point now where I it is
something that I want. I'm not sure what, I'm not
sure when I'm not sure how severe. But yeah, I
(26:59):
mean there's is part of me that just wants to
like fully redo your face transform in some way.
Speaker 2 (27:06):
I mean, who doesn't. It's such a it's such a
wish fulfillment thing, like very like the Swan very Disney
princess Asque, like the posts end or fundraisers and or
parties that we witness to in Brooklyn for the dolls
and their ffs creates this kind of reveal that I
(27:28):
think is really amazing and beautiful to behold. But then
it also creates this kind of standard of something that
you want to be a part of, because who because
I know, I you know, look says people. Gender firming
care is not about beauty, but also it is, and
we all want to be beautiful, and and when we
(27:49):
get when we come out of surgery, we are pushing
a button and dropping thousands of dollars or our insurance
companies are dropping thousands of dollars to make us more beautiful.
And that is more often than not for our literal
safety and or daily psychological survival. But also like, not
everyone needs it, not everyone should have to feel pressured
(28:10):
to get it, but you.
Speaker 1 (28:12):
Know, it is. I do really like that. I know
so many people who have had really like the whole
spectrum of gender affirming care, and so I have people
that I can ask about their experiences. Like last year,
I was considering having an orchaectomy and talk to people
that I knew who had had one, and ultimately decided
that it was not for me at that moment. Maybe ever,
(28:34):
I don't know, And right now, like something that's been
on my mind a lot is like vocal cord surgery
because my voice is the thing that I'm probably the
most dysporic about, although recently a lot of people have
been telling me that they love my voice and that
they find it very soothing. And when we were on
Fire Island, that was the thing that made people recognize
(28:55):
me the most. Like it happened multiple times on the boardwalk.
Someone would hear me talking and then turn and around
and be like, oh my god, I love your podcast.
So that's funny.
Speaker 2 (29:03):
That's a high compliment, but also kind of even further
encouraging reason to do it so that you've become even
more uncor And.
Speaker 1 (29:11):
There's someone there's someone who I follow on TikTok right
now who is about to start or who is about
to get vocal court surgery. So I'm just very I'm
very interested in and she is someone who creates a
lot of content about their transition, so I'm very interested
to see what that process is like for her, And
you know, maybe at some point in the future do
(29:33):
that for myself. But you know, like that's not necessarily
something I'm ever going to be super public about, and
I don't think I like necessarily owe it to talk
to anyone about it. And I also like fully feel
like I have the right to to do it all
or to absolutely change my mind and do none of it.
(29:55):
And you know, because like it's not like unfortunately, like
as we're talking about doctors, like gender firming care specifically
is not just about you and your gender and like, uh,
the way you like appear in the world. It also
(30:15):
is about navigating and extremely like transphobic and like bureaucratic industry,
and like going to doing any kind of medical care
is extremely daunting, and especially stuff that's like very tied
to your gender is just a nightmare. And I also
(30:37):
just hate bureaucracy and like filling out forms that is
probably the thing that the has the most prohibited me
from getting from getting any gender firming care is like
scheduling appointments, having to deal with insurance companies like that.
If honestly, if like when I was like a corporate batty,
(30:59):
if I could have paid someone to like you could have,
I probably could have, and I should have paid me.
And that is something that I kicked myself for. It's
like I should have like hired like a like a
transition assistant.
Speaker 2 (31:13):
Actually that has to be a thing. It probably already is.
Speaker 1 (31:16):
Yeah, someone out there if someone out there, if you're
looking for like a new a new industry, like a
cottage industry to start, you should be like a like
transition doula doula.
Speaker 4 (31:27):
Yeah, so maybe like you and also not like you.
Speaker 2 (31:49):
So I honestly feel very comfortable on the podcast talking
about a lot of things that I otherwise wouldn't in
mixed company or on social media. So like, I honestly
feel great talking about like surgery stuff here. And also, like,
you know, if when I do ever get I mean,
when I do eventually get like gender affirming care of
any kind, I will absolutely talk to anyone about it
(32:13):
if they're also seeking care, because that exchange of information
is just so crucial, not just referrals whether you had
a good experience, what you did, what didn't go well,
things like that, things that you wish you had done.
I've already had n FFS consultation at a doctor that
two of my girlfriends went to. I'm not doing it
(32:35):
through my insurance. I'll do electrolysis through my insurance. I
would do a few other things through my insurance, but
I'm not doing my FFS through my insurance because I
was like, I'd much rather wait until I am wealthy
enough to pay for it because I want the best
that I can get, and that doesn't that's not to
say that there are, there isn't the best that you
(32:57):
can get under your insurance, but to do it through
and insurance is a longer process with a longer waiting
list and a slimmer and a slimmer group of people
to choose from, depending on what stay you're in and
like what like like what part of the country you're in,
and that's something where it's just like I would pay
to not have to deal with that, And I'm also
(33:18):
just not on a corporate insurance anymore, so I might
as well pay out a pocket right, if.
Speaker 1 (33:22):
There's anyone out there who's listening to this podcast who
wants to give us free surgery, No, but that's let
us know, wait, this is so relevant. So I actually
would never do spawn con surgery like and that is
I'm saying knowing full well that that is a free
like thirty forty fifty thousand dollars like a worth of work.
(33:42):
Like I would never because I don't want people to
like look at my face and be like, yeah, that
was the face brought to you In part by doctor
Lee LSPC. Sorry I name dropped Caitlin Jenner and Dylan
mulvaney's FFS surgeon, but like I but like I just
don't want that, like no offense, Like I have no
compst with Dylan mlvany. I think that everybody needs to
(34:02):
do what they need to do, and her bag is influencing.
There's nothing wrong with that. But it's just like that's
not my bag, that's not the bad, that's not what
I want.
Speaker 2 (34:08):
To be associate. That's not how I want people to
see me. And I don't want a little tag on
my face everywhere I go. You know what, That sounds
really anti capitalist, but it's actually just vain, Like I'm
just vain, and I don't want people to think that
I brought it. So like when I do get FFS
and any other gender firming care in that pool, I'm
(34:29):
not talking about it on social media like I'm disappearing.
All my friends will know I'm disappearing, and you will
see me back beautiful as a butterfly. It's such a
weird thing to talk about, honestly just because of the
beauty aspect, but also just like how weirdly we conflated
the medicalization of transnis with transnis itself, which is like
(34:49):
a conversation we don't have the time to have. But
I am endlessly grateful for all the girls that have
already done it and have been so willing to die
document fully on their stories and or close friends, like
the fluid draining, the stitches that they have, the weirdness
of how it sets in, like how much they can
(35:10):
talk or move their mouth like crazy. Detailed experiences of
medical transition now exists online on YouTube, on Instagram because
of this information exchange and also because of everyone's hunger
to be a little famous.
Speaker 1 (35:27):
There was this girl on Twitter recently who shared this
text she had sent her dad who when this one
time her dad misgendered her and she sent him a
text of her post op pussy and was like, it's
she who by.
Speaker 2 (35:46):
Word, that's how you do it?
Speaker 1 (35:48):
Yeah, I think that is so cunned.
Speaker 2 (35:50):
Literally keep them serving cun am I right?
Speaker 1 (35:54):
Wait?
Speaker 2 (35:54):
What does she say, Luanne, Oh, I hope you keep
on serving cunts? I actually voice is kind of giving
her any are I hope you keep on serving conta?
That was not.
Speaker 1 (36:06):
Should we should we do one last doctor? Role? Play
before we sign off.
Speaker 2 (36:10):
Okay, yeah, okay, you're the doctor this time. Hi, I'm
doctor Luhanne. How are you doing today, young lady.
Speaker 1 (36:22):
I'm great. So I'm here because I really want to
get Lady Gaga born this way cheekbones and I know
that you're like pre eminent in this field. Oh yes, we.
Speaker 2 (36:35):
Have that procedure on our kind of offerings pamphlet here.
Speaker 1 (36:40):
So what are the cheekbones made out of?
Speaker 2 (36:42):
Well, okay, I'll have to ask. Hang on, let me
bring her out. We have Val from Glow up here,
who is going to be actually, oh my god, vow
dang Dong.
Speaker 1 (36:55):
My name is Val.
Speaker 2 (36:58):
I think you'll say is smashing and you don't need
a damn thing. Don't get f FS raise dom you.
That's kind of Australian.
Speaker 1 (37:07):
I'm sorry, but Val, it is my right to choose
surgery for myself. So get that scalpel out and put
your whole pussy into these cheekbones.
Speaker 2 (37:19):
Dang Dong, you are so right, You are so right,
a rose. What can I let me just get the
scalpel right now.
Speaker 1 (37:32):
That's a chain, so that's not a scalp.
Speaker 2 (37:34):
No, No, this is right, This is a right can
you insert like chain saw noises. Stick around for a
little preview of this week's Patreon episode, absolutely free to you.
(37:54):
If you want to listen to the entire episode, you
can mosey over to our Patreon at Patreon dot com
slash Like a Virgin.
Speaker 1 (38:02):
Currently we're doing recaps of and Just Like That and
lots of other fun exclusive content for our paywall princesses.
You can also buy our merch at like a Virgin
four twenty sixty nine dot com. Follow us on Instagram
at Like a Virgin four twenty sixty nine. You can
also follow me anywhere you walk at Rosdamue.
Speaker 2 (38:22):
You can find me at Friends, squish Goo, anywhere you like.
Speaker 1 (38:25):
Like a Virgin is an iHeartRadio production. Our producer is
Phoebe Unter, with support from Lindsay Hoffman and Nikki Detour
until next week. I guess so it's never really over
just because it SERVI doesn't miniaturally literally, and maybe you'll
becoming again. Talk to me about polysecure, girl.
Speaker 2 (38:50):
I'm not finished enough with poly secure to give you
a full overview, but I will definitely tell you that
I know your attachment style and mine now.
Speaker 1 (39:00):
And I feel that's what's what's mine.
Speaker 2 (39:02):
Well, they're not like rigid labels, so I don't want
to like kind of like foreclose that onto you. And
I'm also nonprofessional, so I won't. I won't really, I
won't really describe more on the podcast, but.
Speaker 1 (39:12):
I don't know. I want to hear it. No, you
said it. Now you have to diagnose me.
Speaker 2 (39:16):
Okay, So for the virgins, everybody has like kind of
combination attachment styles a lot of the time. So this
is only one of your attachment styles, but I know
that one of them is this.
Speaker 1 (39:33):
What did you like underline it in the book and
said this is.
Speaker 2 (39:36):
Rose No, No, I didn't. Oh, it's called dismissive attachment.
Speaker 1 (39:43):
Explain more.
Speaker 2 (39:44):
Well, it's just like when because of of how you
are cultured and who you are, that you're you're used
to keeping people at an arm's length, which is true
when once again, like these are not like damning labels
that like prove who people are are they are they
are crutches that you know, we default to if we're
(40:05):
not plugged into like what it means to actually connect
with the person, which you are fully capable of.
Speaker 1 (40:09):
Obviously, I don't want.
Speaker 2 (40:12):
To unless you don't want to but like, I mean,
it's this. I mean my attachment style is like anxious
or like or avoidant, like or combo of those.
Speaker 1 (40:20):
I would say, I would say, we're anxious, You're not really,
I don't actually see you as an avoid.
Speaker 2 (40:28):
No, I'm I'm someone who well, it depends on the
circumstance and the relationship, because I am someone who can
shut people out of my brain and existence if I
want to, Like, I can be very out of sight,
out of mind, or like I can just choose to
not care about certain things in ways that I find avoidant.
But I'm also just not a professional. And I haven't
(40:49):
finished the book, so I think, like in a follow
up book, Corner, I'm definitely going to talk more about
poly Secure. Maybe we'll talk about Paul's politics the form
of Immortal Girl. Although I do say that every year
I've read months I say I'm going to read the
book that you're doing.
Speaker 1 (41:03):
Yeah, I don't really see I think this was us
talking about it.
Speaker 2 (41:06):
Yeah. That all that is to say, poll Secure is
something that I'm reading just because it's like relevant to
my life now, and I think that polyamorous relationships are fascinating.
I have no I don't have a ton of like
knowledge about them. And I think that regardless of whether
(41:26):
you are Polly or not, and I'm not, you can
learn a lot from poly forms of attachment and poly
structures of relationships because they're so much more liberated. I
think that's really cool. I also don't know if I've
ever seen a successful one happen.
Speaker 1 (41:47):
Yeah, I am trying to think of one. I, you know,
was giving a friend relationship advice recently, and I won't
go into too much detail, and I don't I'm not
really qualified to give relationship advice, but I did end
up saying that this thing that that I feel, which
(42:09):
is that I think, as you know, evolved queer people
in twenty twenty three, we are sort of expected to
be okay with polyamory or to have it as the
default in our relationships. And I wanted to, you know,
(42:31):
what I told this friend was, it's okay if you're not,
It's okay if you don't want, If it's okay to
not want to have an open relationship, Like it's there
is a reason why, Like I yes, I know, society
is like fucked up and we live in like this
horrible sycteropatriarchy, but like there is a reason why most
(42:52):
people are in monogamous relationships and like it it's Oh,
I'm not saying it's right, but I'm saying, like, it's
okay to want that because we've been conditioned to want it.
And you shouldn't force yourself to be in a polymagel.
You shouldn't force yourself to be polyamorous because you think
it's like the quote unquote right thing to do, as
(43:16):
especially as a queer person, if you're forcing yourself to
be poly for any reason, like you're already kind of
setting yourself up for failure. I'll agree with a lot
of what you said. You know, I think that monogamy
should be challenged, and like if I could push a
button and like relational fluidity where the default instead of monogamy,
(43:40):
Like I think that society would change, right, Like monogamy
is a product of a very specific kind of colonialism
and just like how the operate, how the world operates
in defaults because of like a kind of structure of
marriage and partnership that we've created. And I think that
polyamory is has been around for eons, yes, but is
(44:03):
a very new tool to a lot of people who
don't know how to use it.
Speaker 2 (44:07):
And I think that a lot of the reason that
I find that poly relationships aren't working out is because
one there's a person in the relationship who is acquiescing.
They're coming into this poly relationship because they want to
keep someone or because they don't want to seem like
old fashioned and lo and behold, they're actually not Polly two.
(44:30):
I feel like people can be sometimes extremely entitled or
selfish about the number of partners they want to take on,
probably as a product of previous trauma or attachment styles
that led them to feel like they couldn't actually have
one person they could be alone with. And then I
(44:51):
also think that at the end of the day, we
just the people that are in poly structures are not
read up on how polyamory works. Yeah, and they should be.
Speaker 1 (45:05):
Yeah, I mean, I think it's very I think it's
very admirable that you want to sort of do your
research before you know, potentially entering any kind of polyamorous scenario. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (45:20):
I mean, I don't think I'm gonna do that, but
I feel like I a lot of my friends are poly,
and I feel like I myself when I like when
I have a partner, I've never had an open relationship
before even so I want to learn how to do that,
and polyamory teaches you how to do that, how to
be happy for your partner, how to experience compersion, how
to mitigate and have a conversation with jealousy or ego.
(45:44):
You know, those are things that I want to learn,
even if I'm not Polly and so yeah, that's that's
what I'm learning.
Speaker 1 (45:49):
I don't even know how to be in a monogamous relationship. Yeah,
so like that's, yeah, that's kind of where i'm at.
I'm not ready for the you know, the next I'm
not ready for the two o two class of relationships.
Kind to say, actually, I'm just gonna stay where i'm at.
(46:10):
Love
Have I fucked a doctor?
Speaker 2 (00:05):
I have not fucked a doctor. Have I fucked someone
with a doctorate?
Speaker 1 (00:10):
I'm sure you have.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
That sounds more like me.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
She's Sheen, I'm me, No.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
May not my name? Yoo yoh? What is your childhood?
Speaker 1 (00:25):
I am a choky?
Speaker 2 (00:29):
What's going down before?
Speaker 1 (00:31):
Like you?
Speaker 2 (00:32):
So round, Hey, Virgins. So this week we are skipping
the chit chat and getting right to the meat and
potatoes of the conversation. We got a lot going on
this week. Lucky for you if you are deprived of
(00:56):
some news catch up. We always have our patreon available
to you at patreon dot com slash like a Virgin,
So get into that while you await our return for
chit chat. Today we are talking about doctors and medical things.
A lot of uh deep trans personal conversations happening here.
(01:19):
It's a bit of a fun and different episode for
us because this is like a Virgin, the show where
we give yesterday's pop culture today's takes.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
As always, I'm Fran Toronto, I'm Rose DomU.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
Are you ready to talk about the medical industrial complex?
Speaker 1 (01:35):
Yeah? Cough twice, got it? Okay, you want to play
doctor Fran?
Speaker 2 (01:42):
Actually, maybe you should play the doctor.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
Okay, we're gonna play doctor, but not in I guess
the sexy way, although I never played like sexy doctor.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
I'm not promising anything. I can't. I can't not promise sexual.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
So it could get heated in here, heated by on
tip tip tip on hard floors. Okay, so let's play doctor.
I'm going to be the doctor. Okay, Okay, So you're
you're like in the You're in the room, You're in
the examination room, and you've been waiting bear asked for
like forty five minutes, at least forty minutes, and someone
(02:15):
has already come in and misgendered me. Yes, okay, scoom,
that's the door opening. Hi mixed terrada.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
But I don't know if that's what my medical forms say.
But I really appreciate the gender affirming way you just
addressed me. Thank you doctor.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
Well, you're wearing a shirt that says everybody knows I'm
a transsexual, so I figured it was a safe assumption
to make thank you do. So, Fran, is it fran
to tell me? Tell me what brings you in here today?
Speaker 2 (02:45):
So I recently had a gonorrhea and chlamydia scare, and
I feel like you know, because I've slept with these partners,
I should get tested and maybe also get a shot.
I also need my hormone levels checked. And there's something
weird on my foot. If you could also look at.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
It, great, So you know, without examining you, I think
I can diagnose you. And the diagnosis I would give
is that you're a whore.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
Doctor, I would say, that's a completely accurate diagnosis. Thank
you so much for your time.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
Yeah, and you know what, I got the medicine for that.
Oh and what's the medicine this fucking checock?
Speaker 2 (03:25):
I got a fever and the only cure is more chic.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
I mean, this is literally the way my appointment at
callan Lord went weeks ago.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
Oh you got sucked by your doctor, doctor in a way,
in a way I feel like, honestly, there's something when
you said that, it kind of reminded me of that
scene in.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
This fucking cock continue, sorry, reminded.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
Me of what was the Rachel Vice show series that
we just watched with. Oh uh, what the fuck is it?
Called Ringers? Which I never finished, which you never finished?
So dead Ringers a show we already discussed. There's a
scene in it an immaculate scene in it where one
of the Rachel vices is talking to this guy and
his wife in a doctor's office, and the wife briefly
(04:11):
leaves and then she basically in a matter of seconds,
goes him into pulling out his cock so she can
look at it. It's so good. It's one of the
best doctor scenes I've ever seen in my test. Did
you ever watch grays Anatomy?
Speaker 1 (04:27):
Of course I watched.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
I have watched zero episodes. What can you tell me?
Speaker 1 (04:32):
So it's about surgeon and.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
It's about mostly.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
It's about Sandra. Well, it's about this girl, Meredith Gray,
who is part of a class of residents who come
to a hospital, and it's about them becoming doctors and
also falling in love and you know, making lots of
bad decisions and it I'm sure it really does not
(04:59):
resemble the medical field in any way in any way,
but it is very entertaining. I want to hold space
for our audience as I'm sure that thinking about doctors
or the medical field in any way, or the pharmacypally
(05:21):
probably somewhat traumatic.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
So you know, this will not really be a triggering episode,
though we're gonna shoo sh about how horrible is.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
Honestly, doctors are the wa U do Doctors are people
who ostensibly exist to help us, and in practice are
frequently horrible.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
Yeah, And the thing that we need to know about
them is that generally speaking, they are running a business
and a lot of them aren't interested in your medical
care at all. And I think that honestly, you know, doctors,
you know, have gotten this societal have achieved this societal
placement where like they're questions so infrequently and they're they're
(06:13):
just like, oh, yeah, whatever you say goes because you
went to a bajillion years of school and could afford that,
and now you are in this place and probably make
zillions of dollars doing it. But everyone should be skeptical
of their doctors.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
Did you ever want to be a doctor? No, thank god,
No I did. I wanted to be a surgeon, mostly
because of Grey's anatomy. But I but I realized very
quickly that I was not smart enough because you have
to wait, very smart and remember so much stuff to
be a doctor, and that there was no way I
could stand for that long to do surgery.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
Oh yeah, you, I mean, when you're a doctor, you
have to be on your feet for like twelve, fourteen,
nineteen hours a day, Like it's insane.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
Can't do that. That's why they wear such ugly shoes.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
That's why they wear such ugly shoes and such ugly
clothes too. I mean, I know people are trying to
like really up the scrubs game. They're like these influencer
scrubs figs or whatever, but like those are not that
cute either.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
So I used to wear scrubs as a kid a
lot because my dad, my dad worked at the hospital,
and I don't know, because he used to like bring
them home and whenever we spent the weekend at his house,
like after my parents got divorced, like that's always what
I would wear to sleep was in the hospital. I
do think I've talked about this before, my intense love
(07:29):
for hospital food because we used to go visit my
dad for the hospital at the hospital, and he would
take us to the cafeteria.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
Do you still like hospital food?
Speaker 1 (07:38):
I do have this weird appreciation for kind of institutionalized
food that is made in huge batches, like airplane food,
like airplane food, cafeteria food of any kind, and hospital
food really gives me that When was the last time
(08:00):
you were in a hospital as a patient that wasn't
just like an appointment, Like when was the last time
you needed care from the hospital in a sort of
extended way as a patient? I mean, have I already
told you the story about when my long spontaneously collapsed? No?
Speaker 2 (08:17):
Apparently No. Okay, let me see if I can tell
the short version. The short version is I was in college.
I was working as an eighteen hour credit student. I
was also a closeted smoker, which was something that I
kept for my boyfriend at the time. And it's just
an extremely stressed out, very skinny person. I was probably
like one hundred and thirty five one hundred and forty
pounds as a consequence of a recently healed eating disorder
(08:41):
back in twenty whatever the fuck?
Speaker 1 (08:43):
Okay I rushed music videos.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
Sorry, yeah, I'm not skinny. I mean I'm still skinny,
but whatever. Anyways, this is all relevant information because one
day I was in the library of studying for an
Italian test because I took Italian because I had read
epre Love and thought it was a phenomenal piece of.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
Oh my god, I was watching epray Love this morning.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
What what for work for? What it was for work?
And I leaned over the back of my chair and
I heard a little pup and I was like, what
was that, James, Well, what was that, James? And then
I leaned back over and I was like, oh, like
my back was cracking.
Speaker 1 (09:17):
That was weird.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
And then I was experiencing what was probably the worst
possible pain I've ever experienced in my entire life. And
I was like, what the fuck just happened? And then
in my head, I was like, is this what it
feels like when people throw their back out? Like is
am I experiencing like back problems for the first time?
And anyways, I, you know, was too poor, like I
(09:38):
it was at a time and honestly still is that
time where it's like I'm not going to go to
the doctor's office just to give them fifty dollars to
like tell me that like, I, you know, broke my
back or whatever, or that my back is like hurting.
It's just like, yeah, I knew that. But I went
two full days wandering around campus being an eighteen hour
credit student. I was a commuter biker. I jogged every
(09:58):
single day five mile. I did all of that for
two days and an excruciating kind of quote unquote back pain,
which I found out was not a back pain when
I finally did go to urgent care and then they
did an X ray on me and they were like, yeah,
so you had a spontaneous pneumothorax. You literally only have
one lung right now and have had one lung for
(10:19):
two days. You need to go to the er immediately.
Would you like an ambulance? And they fixed it like
fifteen minutes. It's actually a really simple surgery, and it's
an incredibly common thing that happens to a very small
number of people who are usually stressed and or really
skinny and or smokers. And I was all three at
the time.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
Did you have to be put under anesthesia?
Speaker 2 (10:40):
I don't think I did need to, but I was like,
you're doing that. I'm like not going to be awake
for this, like I do. I can't experience that.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
Being put under anesthesia is so cunty. It's so nice,
Like I I got something done in when was it
like twenty twenty one? That's I don't know if you
remember this. I had a.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
Little and.
Speaker 1 (11:06):
I just like that feeling of like being conscious one
moment and then suddenly awake another moment, completely somewhere else
under very different circumstances is such a gag.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
Yeah, wait, okay.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
That's how I wish I fell asleep every night. Okay,
I want to be put under anesthesia every night. That
would be very bad for your brain. Cares, but who cares.
Speaker 2 (11:32):
Estheticians are probably making bank for not that big of
a skill set.
Speaker 1 (11:35):
Right.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
You have to go to so much less school to
be an esthetician, right.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
Or an estheticianth ansty ziologist.
Speaker 2 (11:42):
Yeah, that's what it is. That's what they're called. I
am Okay. Have you ever had a doctor that you
liked slash? Is it our doctor from La Doctor V?
Speaker 1 (11:53):
Doctor V? I loved doctor V and I do miss him,
although so I recently restarted care at Colin Lore because
since I moved back here, I have been saying over
and over that I wanted to find a doctor at
a private practice. I really didn't want to go to
a queer health center. And then I realized my estrogym
was running out, and I was like, fuck, I guess
I just have to go back to coun lord, because
(12:15):
it's just the easiest thing, even though it is not
easy in literally any way. But I'm going to the
Brooklyn one, so that makes things like marginally better. But yeah,
I really missed doctor V, our gay ass doctor from.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
LA, the gayest doctor, such a competent, like runs his
practice like a machine, a well oiled machine.
Speaker 1 (12:37):
I miss And he's hot. He is hot.
Speaker 2 (12:40):
Yeah, he was hot.
Speaker 1 (12:41):
I got recommended him from and it was like, this
is a gay doctor that all the girls go all
the girls go to.
Speaker 2 (12:48):
Yeah kind of yeah, and I he So I worked
with doctor V for a bit and then there was
someone else in his practice, and doctor Jake Collins, who
then became my primary care physician and also put me
on estradeal honestly, which is kind of a big deal.
And my whole experience of that was so seamless and
easy and unquestioned. I loved it, and I love doctor Collins,
and honestly, so this is in COVID era and so
(13:11):
everybody was still in masks one hundred percent of the time,
so I didn't really know what doctor Collins looked like.
But one day I was scrolling through Instagram, and turns
out he's like a hot doctor influencer and he has
a kick in bod and the most gorgeous face I've
ever looked at in my entire life, one that I've
never seen because it's always been under a mask. And
I was like, what the fuck this man just had
(13:32):
his like rubber gloved fingers in my whole, like checking
for prostate cancer or whatever. Yeah, but I would love
to fuck a doctor. I would love to marry a doctor.
I would love to marry it.
Speaker 1 (13:44):
Because they would not be home a lot.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
Yeah exactly.
Speaker 1 (13:46):
Oh, and they would get me, you know, they would
prescribe me whatever I want to wait, you know, those
pills forever.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
You know what really fulfills this fantasy for me of
being married to a doctor is the kids are all right,
starring on at Benning and Julian More because Annette Benning
is famously kind of the tied up, stuck up like
work bitch doctor mom, and like her like over commitment
to work is like part of what is like wedging
her relationship to Anette Benning that in the fact that
(14:14):
she's like fucking the gardener. But I just remember bearing
witness to their relationship and how loving and supportive it was,
and I was like, yeah, you know, in a gay relationship,
a lot of times there's an Annette and there's a
Julianne Moore, and I'm always the Annette. But I would love.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
Oh and I'm the julian of this relationship. I'm definitely
the Julianne. I would I'm on the redhead.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
I would disagree because you're very get shit done. But yeah,
I guess, like on paper because your redhead, you like
legally do have to be Julianne Moore. However, I would
say I wish I was the Julianne Moore. And I
feel like I would like to have a relationship where
I'm the Julianne Moore and the one that's just kind
of like, I don't really know what I'm doing for
my career. I'll start like four businesses. Can I buy
a truck?
Speaker 1 (14:55):
Mommy?
Speaker 2 (14:56):
Like that's what I want to be, but I'm not.
Then maybe one day, maybe one day, I'll be taken
care of by a daddy.
Speaker 1 (15:02):
Doctor. You know what doctors always make me think of
is my is Highlights magazine? Do you remember Highlight? You
remember it was like the magazine for parents and it
was always in the pediatricians office.
Speaker 2 (15:15):
Yeah, with that geo kids, Yeah, I mean a Nickelodeon magazine.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
Did you grow up hating going to the doctor.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
Yeah, I'm pretty sure my parents didn't have We didn't
have fights about it, which was great, Like I knew
I had to go, but I hated. Yeah, I hated doctors.
The only doctors I enjoyed going to were eye doctors.
I think the I think weird. I think taking eye
exams is really fun.
Speaker 1 (15:38):
Do you are you squeamish about giving blood?
Speaker 2 (15:42):
No, I'm not. I'm a little bit of a baby sometimes,
but like I just look at my phone now and
I'm fine because I feel like I have to get
blood work done all the time because I'm gay.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
What about you, I like actively enjoy giving blood.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
You're like peah, I mean, oh, that's all you're gonna take.
Speaker 1 (16:00):
Well, I do have some more. Something that's happened in
the past couple of years is I apparently my veins
are really hard to find, either because I have like
I don't know, like thick skin, or they're like really
recessed or something. So it usually takes the nurse a
really long time to find my veins and toms. Sometimes
they will have to insert the needle in many times
(16:22):
before they find you love in. I love it a
little bit. I mean I really don't have a problem
with like doing doing my shots. You know, when I
inject estrogen, I I just like am not squeamish about
blood all Like I never flinch when a needle gets
put in me. The other day, I was getting tattooed,
(16:44):
and like my friend who was doing my tattoos, like
kept asking are you okay? Are you okay? And I
was like, yeah, I'm fine. I mean up until like
the fourth I haven't even seen your new tattoo yet.
I have five new tattoos.
Speaker 2 (16:55):
Okay, we'll see them after I fall asleep during tattoo appointments,
especially now that I get stick in pokes from my
friend Elliott. Those are like jet they feel nice, they
feel like good.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
The first four were fine, and then once we.
Speaker 3 (17:07):
Got to my leg that started to become a little
bit of an issue.
Speaker 1 (17:31):
Obviously. Like when you're trans you know, doctor, and I think,
just like being queer in general, like doctors become a
much bigger part of your life. Because before I started
medically transitioning, I saw a doctor you know, on a
like a good decade, you know, once every couple of years,
(17:53):
you know when I was a kid, obviously I saw
I saw a doctor like once a year for a physical.
But you know, being trans like you have to be
much more aware of what's going on in your body.
And then also if you factor being on prep into it,
then you have to see a doctor every three months
to get your blood work done. I I don't know,
(18:15):
Like I think I now feel a lot less intimidated
by medical stuff than before I started transitioning. Like there
were definitely in my sort of like lawless twenties from
college to when I started transitioning. Like in my later twenties,
(18:36):
I like I didn't go to the doctor for years.
I like had no idea what was going on in
my body. But I was also young enough that it
didn't really matter, Like I was always bouncing back from this.
That's kind of tea, Like we really should get regularly
checked up, especially when it comes to like screenings and
cancer stuff, but for the most part in your early twenties,
like you do not need to be This is like
such terrible advice, but it's true. You may so much
(18:57):
to just visit the doctor because you're supposed to as
especially when it comes to like dentists and I doctors
and all this shit, and then you end up throwing
away so much money on copays in medicine you don't
actually need or like things that you never asked for
and you don't need it, like you're gonna be fine
through your twenties, like go to the hour when you
need to. But now in my mid thirties, I'm medicated,
boots boots down.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
And let me tell you, just buy within an inch
of my life medicated because health insurance.
Speaker 1 (19:25):
Don't even get me started. I'm still on my California
health insurance have not changed.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
So you're paying like six hundred dollars a month.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
No, no, no, I'm paying like nothing. Oh. I'm on the
health insurance that I got when I left my last
job and went on unemployment. Oh, I pay like nothing.
And you were still covered by doctor V No no, no,
I stopped going to doctor V.
Speaker 2 (19:48):
Oh but what but didn't Oh so you didn't have
your insurance?
Speaker 1 (19:51):
No no no oh I see No I didn't do like
the I didn't switch my health insurance. I went on
like the very basic like Medicaid insurance I see, or medicare,
which one is for old people, Medicare or Medicaid.
Speaker 2 (20:05):
I think Medicare is for old people. Okay, so Medicaid
but oh no, no, no, a Medicare is for us. Medicaid
is for.
Speaker 1 (20:12):
Old Well, it hasn't been a problem yet. I mean
I haven't been to the doctor a lot this year.
I only went for the first time outside of like
going to urgent care when I had strapped throat. I
just went to Calen Lord for the first time to
start care there again, and like they didn't even have
(20:33):
my current email or phone number, like it is it's
been a while. And I the day that I went
to calen Lord, I saw two people I knew, and
then afterwards I tweeted something about Callen Lord and someone
I mutuals with messaged me and was like I sent
(20:55):
this to my friend at calen Lord and they were like, oh,
Rose Damu was just here.
Speaker 2 (20:59):
So it's like everyone knows. It's so bad.
Speaker 1 (21:01):
It's so annoying, and like that sounds very annoying to say, like,
but it is like the place where there's high the
highest likelihood that someone will recognize one of us, because
like it is very It's like when I went to
see Caroline, Polo Jack and Ethyl Kane, Like I knew
that was a place where people were going to come
up to me and like know who I was because
they listened to this podcast or like follow me on
(21:23):
Twitter or whatever. And the Venn diagram between people who
go to a Caroline Polcheck Ethyl Kane show and people
who go to Callen Lord is basically a circle. And
that is honestly like the last place where I want
to have an awareness that people have an awareness of me,
(21:44):
you know, And like that's very like not a relatable problem,
So I don't want to give it any more airtime.
But it is weird too, because like when you are
doing medical stuff, especially as a trans person, you are
making yourself extremely vulnerable. And that's not when I want
to be worried about like someone being like like oh
(22:05):
my god, I love oh my god, I love your Twitter.
Speaker 2 (22:07):
Yeah, it's like, don't I mean to have the sense
to like not walk out to or acknowledge people at
the doctor when they're at the doctors. I hope people
at least know that, But like, no, I experienced the
same thing. I love Calm Lord. I stand like a
lot of the fundraising or organizing that they do, but
for my needs I go to APACHA, which is a
comparable like medical initiative for trans people, and I get
(22:32):
recognized there. I've seen people I know there. But I
will say, from my experience, because everybody I'm talking to
or potentially being recognized by are like queer trans, it
is a little easier to be there because I'm like, Okay,
we're all here for probably the same or similar reason.
So I don't feel a type of way about it.
But yeah, I think it's not much to ask for
(22:54):
privacy in your place of medical care. You know what
I mean. That shouldn't be It shouldn't be a thing.
Speaker 1 (23:01):
I know. It feels like doctor patient confidentiality. I extend
to like being at any kind of medical center.
Speaker 2 (23:08):
I'm also realizing, actually that what you've named is actually
such a problem that I do. I do wear sunglasses
when I go into the doctor's office because I'm like,
I I wear hat, I wear sunglasses. I was like,
I don't want I don't want anybody talking.
Speaker 1 (23:19):
He was like, going to Colin Lord a couple of
weeks ago. I made sure that I like looked okay,
because I was like, I know, I'm going to at
the very least run into people that I know.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
And when we went to the doctor, when we went
to doctor V, honey, we were stunting. I love. I
looked so good for doctor V. I was like, I
was like, this is a nice little medical facility, and
these are some nice young men touching me.
Speaker 1 (23:46):
I miss doctor V so much and the way he said.
Speaker 3 (23:49):
But but boot.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
There was a period when I was in college when
I used to watch a lot of surgery videos. What.
Speaker 2 (24:00):
Yeah, but this was after you already decided you're not
going to be a surgeon anymore.
Speaker 1 (24:04):
Yeah, but like like in my in my like early
to mid twenties, I used to watch surgery videos on
YouTube a lot for fun. Yeah. Ah, yeah, like the
that's kind of gory, like open heart surgery.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
So you're not squeamish about that.
Speaker 1 (24:20):
I actually have become a lot more squeamish in my
old age. Yeah, I see, I can't do It's not
the gore that bothers me. It's sort of like weird
body stuff that bothers me, like weird holes and things
like that.
Speaker 2 (24:37):
I have a question, Yeah, are there weird holes? H
Are there any sort of medical appointments or plans you
are making for yourself in any sort of future that
you have to then go to a doctor for.
Speaker 1 (24:55):
Are you asking me if I want to get gender.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
You and I have talked about FFS before, and at
a certain point you really wanted it, and now you
kind of don't. I don't know if that's on the you.
Speaker 1 (25:05):
No, I do want it, and I'm kind of in
a moment of like looking at my life and figuring
out what I want now, being like a year out
from having left a corporate job and like being a
full time creative and something I want that you and
I have talked about is like I do think I
want to have a job again, And a big part
of that is that I do kind of kick myself
(25:28):
for not taking advantage of having really good healthcare when
I had a corporate job and just getting a lot
of gender affirming surgery. So that is part of the
appeal to me of having a job again, is just
like being able to get a lot of really cunty
plastic surgery, and like, that is something I want and
(25:48):
I have gone so back and forth on it because
I am one of the few trans women I know
who's had no gender affirming surgery, and I would wow,
would you say few, you would say few. I think
most trans women I know well have had stuff done
(26:14):
and like, you know, I don't think we need to
talk about like our friends and I've not done, but
you know, like it is a passage now expect it is,
it is expected, and like especially too, I don't know,
but kinds of dolls, yeah, certain kinds of dolls, and like,
I have gone back and forth so much over you know,
(26:36):
the past seven years about whether it's something I want
or not, and I've I've swung really far on the
pendulum both ways at different times, and I I guess
I am at a point now where I it is
something that I want. I'm not sure what, I'm not
sure when I'm not sure how severe. But yeah, I
(26:59):
mean there's is part of me that just wants to
like fully redo your face transform in some way.
Speaker 2 (27:06):
I mean, who doesn't. It's such a it's such a
wish fulfillment thing, like very like the Swan very Disney
princess Asque, like the posts end or fundraisers and or
parties that we witness to in Brooklyn for the dolls
and their ffs creates this kind of reveal that I
(27:28):
think is really amazing and beautiful to behold. But then
it also creates this kind of standard of something that
you want to be a part of, because who because
I know, I you know, look says people. Gender firming
care is not about beauty, but also it is, and
we all want to be beautiful, and and when we
(27:49):
get when we come out of surgery, we are pushing
a button and dropping thousands of dollars or our insurance
companies are dropping thousands of dollars to make us more beautiful.
And that is more often than not for our literal
safety and or daily psychological survival. But also like, not
everyone needs it, not everyone should have to feel pressured
(28:10):
to get it, but you.
Speaker 1 (28:12):
Know, it is. I do really like that. I know
so many people who have had really like the whole
spectrum of gender affirming care, and so I have people
that I can ask about their experiences. Like last year,
I was considering having an orchaectomy and talk to people
that I knew who had had one, and ultimately decided
that it was not for me at that moment. Maybe ever,
(28:34):
I don't know, And right now, like something that's been
on my mind a lot is like vocal cord surgery
because my voice is the thing that I'm probably the
most dysporic about, although recently a lot of people have
been telling me that they love my voice and that
they find it very soothing. And when we were on
Fire Island, that was the thing that made people recognize
(28:55):
me the most. Like it happened multiple times on the boardwalk.
Someone would hear me talking and then turn and around
and be like, oh my god, I love your podcast.
So that's funny.
Speaker 2 (29:03):
That's a high compliment, but also kind of even further
encouraging reason to do it so that you've become even
more uncor And.
Speaker 1 (29:11):
There's someone there's someone who I follow on TikTok right
now who is about to start or who is about
to get vocal court surgery. So I'm just very I'm
very interested in and she is someone who creates a
lot of content about their transition, so I'm very interested
to see what that process is like for her, And
you know, maybe at some point in the future do
(29:33):
that for myself. But you know, like that's not necessarily
something I'm ever going to be super public about, and
I don't think I like necessarily owe it to talk
to anyone about it. And I also like fully feel
like I have the right to to do it all
or to absolutely change my mind and do none of it.
(29:55):
And you know, because like it's not like unfortunately, like
as we're talking about doctors, like gender firming care specifically
is not just about you and your gender and like, uh,
the way you like appear in the world. It also
(30:15):
is about navigating and extremely like transphobic and like bureaucratic industry,
and like going to doing any kind of medical care
is extremely daunting, and especially stuff that's like very tied
to your gender is just a nightmare. And I also
(30:37):
just hate bureaucracy and like filling out forms that is
probably the thing that the has the most prohibited me
from getting from getting any gender firming care is like
scheduling appointments, having to deal with insurance companies like that.
If honestly, if like when I was like a corporate batty,
(30:59):
if I could have paid someone to like you could have,
I probably could have, and I should have paid me.
And that is something that I kicked myself for. It's
like I should have like hired like a like a
transition assistant.
Speaker 2 (31:13):
Actually that has to be a thing. It probably already is.
Speaker 1 (31:16):
Yeah, someone out there if someone out there, if you're
looking for like a new a new industry, like a
cottage industry to start, you should be like a like
transition doula doula.
Speaker 4 (31:27):
Yeah, so maybe like you and also not like you.
Speaker 2 (31:49):
So I honestly feel very comfortable on the podcast talking
about a lot of things that I otherwise wouldn't in
mixed company or on social media. So like, I honestly
feel great talking about like surgery stuff here. And also, like,
you know, if when I do ever get I mean,
when I do eventually get like gender affirming care of
any kind, I will absolutely talk to anyone about it
(32:13):
if they're also seeking care, because that exchange of information
is just so crucial, not just referrals whether you had
a good experience, what you did, what didn't go well,
things like that, things that you wish you had done.
I've already had n FFS consultation at a doctor that
two of my girlfriends went to. I'm not doing it
(32:35):
through my insurance. I'll do electrolysis through my insurance. I
would do a few other things through my insurance, but
I'm not doing my FFS through my insurance because I
was like, I'd much rather wait until I am wealthy
enough to pay for it because I want the best
that I can get, and that doesn't that's not to
say that there are, there isn't the best that you
(32:57):
can get under your insurance, but to do it through
and insurance is a longer process with a longer waiting
list and a slimmer and a slimmer group of people
to choose from, depending on what stay you're in and
like what like like what part of the country you're in,
and that's something where it's just like I would pay
to not have to deal with that, And I'm also
(33:18):
just not on a corporate insurance anymore, so I might
as well pay out a pocket right, if.
Speaker 1 (33:22):
There's anyone out there who's listening to this podcast who
wants to give us free surgery, No, but that's let
us know, wait, this is so relevant. So I actually
would never do spawn con surgery like and that is
I'm saying knowing full well that that is a free
like thirty forty fifty thousand dollars like a worth of work.
(33:42):
Like I would never because I don't want people to
like look at my face and be like, yeah, that
was the face brought to you In part by doctor
Lee LSPC. Sorry I name dropped Caitlin Jenner and Dylan
mulvaney's FFS surgeon, but like I but like I just
don't want that, like no offense, Like I have no
compst with Dylan mlvany. I think that everybody needs to
(34:02):
do what they need to do, and her bag is influencing.
There's nothing wrong with that. But it's just like that's
not my bag, that's not the bad, that's not what
I want.
Speaker 2 (34:08):
To be associate. That's not how I want people to
see me. And I don't want a little tag on
my face everywhere I go. You know what, That sounds
really anti capitalist, but it's actually just vain, Like I'm
just vain, and I don't want people to think that
I brought it. So like when I do get FFS
and any other gender firming care in that pool, I'm
(34:29):
not talking about it on social media like I'm disappearing.
All my friends will know I'm disappearing, and you will
see me back beautiful as a butterfly. It's such a
weird thing to talk about, honestly just because of the
beauty aspect, but also just like how weirdly we conflated
the medicalization of transnis with transnis itself, which is like
(34:49):
a conversation we don't have the time to have. But
I am endlessly grateful for all the girls that have
already done it and have been so willing to die
document fully on their stories and or close friends, like
the fluid draining, the stitches that they have, the weirdness
of how it sets in, like how much they can
(35:10):
talk or move their mouth like crazy. Detailed experiences of
medical transition now exists online on YouTube, on Instagram because
of this information exchange and also because of everyone's hunger
to be a little famous.
Speaker 1 (35:27):
There was this girl on Twitter recently who shared this
text she had sent her dad who when this one
time her dad misgendered her and she sent him a
text of her post op pussy and was like, it's
she who by.
Speaker 2 (35:46):
Word, that's how you do it?
Speaker 1 (35:48):
Yeah, I think that is so cunned.
Speaker 2 (35:50):
Literally keep them serving cun am I right?
Speaker 1 (35:54):
Wait?
Speaker 2 (35:54):
What does she say, Luanne, Oh, I hope you keep
on serving cunts? I actually voice is kind of giving
her any are I hope you keep on serving conta?
That was not.
Speaker 1 (36:06):
Should we should we do one last doctor? Role? Play
before we sign off.
Speaker 2 (36:10):
Okay, yeah, okay, you're the doctor this time. Hi, I'm
doctor Luhanne. How are you doing today, young lady.
Speaker 1 (36:22):
I'm great. So I'm here because I really want to
get Lady Gaga born this way cheekbones and I know
that you're like pre eminent in this field. Oh yes, we.
Speaker 2 (36:35):
Have that procedure on our kind of offerings pamphlet here.
Speaker 1 (36:40):
So what are the cheekbones made out of?
Speaker 2 (36:42):
Well, okay, I'll have to ask. Hang on, let me
bring her out. We have Val from Glow up here,
who is going to be actually, oh my god, vow
dang Dong.
Speaker 1 (36:55):
My name is Val.
Speaker 2 (36:58):
I think you'll say is smashing and you don't need
a damn thing. Don't get f FS raise dom you.
That's kind of Australian.
Speaker 1 (37:07):
I'm sorry, but Val, it is my right to choose
surgery for myself. So get that scalpel out and put
your whole pussy into these cheekbones.
Speaker 2 (37:19):
Dang Dong, you are so right, You are so right,
a rose. What can I let me just get the
scalpel right now.
Speaker 1 (37:32):
That's a chain, so that's not a scalp.
Speaker 2 (37:34):
No, No, this is right, This is a right can
you insert like chain saw noises. Stick around for a
little preview of this week's Patreon episode, absolutely free to you.
(37:54):
If you want to listen to the entire episode, you
can mosey over to our Patreon at Patreon dot com
slash Like a Virgin.
Speaker 1 (38:02):
Currently we're doing recaps of and Just Like That and
lots of other fun exclusive content for our paywall princesses.
You can also buy our merch at like a Virgin
four twenty sixty nine dot com. Follow us on Instagram
at Like a Virgin four twenty sixty nine. You can
also follow me anywhere you walk at Rosdamue.
Speaker 2 (38:22):
You can find me at Friends, squish Goo, anywhere you like.
Speaker 1 (38:25):
Like a Virgin is an iHeartRadio production. Our producer is
Phoebe Unter, with support from Lindsay Hoffman and Nikki Detour
until next week. I guess so it's never really over
just because it SERVI doesn't miniaturally literally, and maybe you'll
becoming again. Talk to me about polysecure, girl.
Speaker 2 (38:50):
I'm not finished enough with poly secure to give you
a full overview, but I will definitely tell you that
I know your attachment style and mine now.
Speaker 1 (39:00):
And I feel that's what's what's mine.
Speaker 2 (39:02):
Well, they're not like rigid labels, so I don't want
to like kind of like foreclose that onto you. And
I'm also nonprofessional, so I won't. I won't really, I
won't really describe more on the podcast, but.
Speaker 1 (39:12):
I don't know. I want to hear it. No, you
said it. Now you have to diagnose me.
Speaker 2 (39:16):
Okay, So for the virgins, everybody has like kind of
combination attachment styles a lot of the time. So this
is only one of your attachment styles, but I know
that one of them is this.
Speaker 1 (39:33):
What did you like underline it in the book and
said this is.
Speaker 2 (39:36):
Rose No, No, I didn't. Oh, it's called dismissive attachment.
Speaker 1 (39:43):
Explain more.
Speaker 2 (39:44):
Well, it's just like when because of of how you
are cultured and who you are, that you're you're used
to keeping people at an arm's length, which is true
when once again, like these are not like damning labels
that like prove who people are are they are they
are crutches that you know, we default to if we're
(40:05):
not plugged into like what it means to actually connect
with the person, which you are fully capable of.
Speaker 1 (40:09):
Obviously, I don't want.
Speaker 2 (40:12):
To unless you don't want to but like, I mean,
it's this. I mean my attachment style is like anxious
or like or avoidant, like or combo of those.
Speaker 1 (40:20):
I would say, I would say, we're anxious, You're not really,
I don't actually see you as an avoid.
Speaker 2 (40:28):
No, I'm I'm someone who well, it depends on the
circumstance and the relationship, because I am someone who can
shut people out of my brain and existence if I
want to, Like, I can be very out of sight,
out of mind, or like I can just choose to
not care about certain things in ways that I find avoidant.
But I'm also just not a professional. And I haven't
(40:49):
finished the book, so I think, like in a follow
up book, Corner, I'm definitely going to talk more about
poly Secure. Maybe we'll talk about Paul's politics the form
of Immortal Girl. Although I do say that every year
I've read months I say I'm going to read the
book that you're doing.
Speaker 1 (41:03):
Yeah, I don't really see I think this was us
talking about it.
Speaker 2 (41:06):
Yeah. That all that is to say, poll Secure is
something that I'm reading just because it's like relevant to
my life now, and I think that polyamorous relationships are fascinating.
I have no I don't have a ton of like
knowledge about them. And I think that regardless of whether
(41:26):
you are Polly or not, and I'm not, you can
learn a lot from poly forms of attachment and poly
structures of relationships because they're so much more liberated. I
think that's really cool. I also don't know if I've
ever seen a successful one happen.
Speaker 1 (41:47):
Yeah, I am trying to think of one. I, you know,
was giving a friend relationship advice recently, and I won't
go into too much detail, and I don't I'm not
really qualified to give relationship advice, but I did end
up saying that this thing that that I feel, which
(42:09):
is that I think, as you know, evolved queer people
in twenty twenty three, we are sort of expected to
be okay with polyamory or to have it as the
default in our relationships. And I wanted to, you know,
(42:31):
what I told this friend was, it's okay if you're not,
It's okay if you don't want, If it's okay to
not want to have an open relationship, Like it's there
is a reason why, Like I yes, I know, society
is like fucked up and we live in like this
horrible sycteropatriarchy, but like there is a reason why most
(42:52):
people are in monogamous relationships and like it it's Oh,
I'm not saying it's right, but I'm saying, like, it's
okay to want that because we've been conditioned to want it.
And you shouldn't force yourself to be in a polymagel.
You shouldn't force yourself to be polyamorous because you think
it's like the quote unquote right thing to do, as
(43:16):
especially as a queer person, if you're forcing yourself to
be poly for any reason, like you're already kind of
setting yourself up for failure. I'll agree with a lot
of what you said. You know, I think that monogamy
should be challenged, and like if I could push a
button and like relational fluidity where the default instead of monogamy,
(43:40):
Like I think that society would change, right, Like monogamy
is a product of a very specific kind of colonialism
and just like how the operate, how the world operates
in defaults because of like a kind of structure of
marriage and partnership that we've created. And I think that
polyamory is has been around for eons, yes, but is
(44:03):
a very new tool to a lot of people who
don't know how to use it.
Speaker 2 (44:07):
And I think that a lot of the reason that
I find that poly relationships aren't working out is because
one there's a person in the relationship who is acquiescing.
They're coming into this poly relationship because they want to
keep someone or because they don't want to seem like
old fashioned and lo and behold, they're actually not Polly two.
(44:30):
I feel like people can be sometimes extremely entitled or
selfish about the number of partners they want to take on,
probably as a product of previous trauma or attachment styles
that led them to feel like they couldn't actually have
one person they could be alone with. And then I
(44:51):
also think that at the end of the day, we
just the people that are in poly structures are not
read up on how polyamory works. Yeah, and they should be.
Speaker 1 (45:05):
Yeah, I mean, I think it's very I think it's
very admirable that you want to sort of do your
research before you know, potentially entering any kind of polyamorous scenario. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (45:20):
I mean, I don't think I'm gonna do that, but
I feel like I a lot of my friends are poly,
and I feel like I myself when I like when
I have a partner, I've never had an open relationship
before even so I want to learn how to do that,
and polyamory teaches you how to do that, how to
be happy for your partner, how to experience compersion, how
to mitigate and have a conversation with jealousy or ego.
(45:44):
You know, those are things that I want to learn,
even if I'm not Polly and so yeah, that's that's
what I'm learning.
Speaker 1 (45:49):
I don't even know how to be in a monogamous relationship. Yeah,
so like that's, yeah, that's kind of where i'm at.
I'm not ready for the you know, the next I'm
not ready for the two o two class of relationships.
Kind to say, actually, I'm just gonna stay where i'm at.
(46:10):
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