February 2, 2023 • 68 mins
- Fran & Rose discuss the 1999 classic rich kid stepcest film Cruel Intentions
- Plus, love-watching The Last of Us, Poker Face, and the Gossip Girl Series Finale, and hate-watching Fleishman is in Trouble and Real Friends of WeHo
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
Thank you for letting me get that off my chest. Rose,
I'm I'm supposed to do it. Yeah, this is this
is an unsafe space, but it is a space nonetheless
welcome to. Like a version of the show where we
give yesterday's pop culture today's takes. I'm Rose, damn you,
(00:24):
and I am Fran Toronto, and we are going to
give literally yesterday's pop culture today's takes because it is Monday,
and we are gonna talk about the gay episode of
the Last of Us. So, Fran, I was able to
convince you to watch The Last of Us and you were,
as you were, fully caught up. So before we even
(00:45):
get into last night's episode, just like, what generally are
you feeling about the show now that you've watched it.
I am adoring it. Um. I was never like a
horror movie genre buff growing up as a kid. However,
my cousins and I loved the zombie genre and we
thought zombie stories were so cool growing up. And I
(01:06):
feel like I have this kind of nostalgic attachment to
like old school zombie stories. And so when you told
me about this show and how it's kind of bringing
prestige to like a well trotted genre. I don't think
I ever could have expected what came from it, and
I think that this most recent episode I was able
to kind of see what this show does best, which
(01:28):
is almost make you forget that it's a zombie show.
Like your zombies are used or the infected as they
call them, the clickers are used very sparingly, and I think,
like the best zombie media, it's more about how people
react to a zombie apocalypse, how people, how humans shape
(01:54):
society in the absence of what once existed, And from
what I know about the game, because I have consumed
a little content about the game that the show is
based on, um, the main antagonists of the game are
humans and zombies are more of like a you know,
boogeyman kind of like uh like obstacle more than anything else.
(02:17):
So so I do I do think you're You're right
to note that that, like, the zombies are like kind
of few and far between, and it is much more
about the very human drama of it all in extreme circumstances.
And also just like how terrifying and sad survival is
as a concept when you're like the lat when you
(02:39):
are the last of us, right, and so like that's
what made this third episode so revelatory, which, like kind
of um, departs from the main set of protagonists and
shows the viewers another story that they're entangled with, which
is these two like men who I guess find each other, uh,
Bill and Frank played by Nick Offerman of Parks and
(03:03):
Recreation and Murray Bartlett from season one of The White
Lotus and they Bill, I mean, we've never seen Nick
in a role like this, I don't think, but like
Murray is so good that two of them are so
good together. And it's also a story that could never
have been told before, Like this is a completely original
(03:26):
story that has a ground, like a kind of foundation
in something that is extremely real and present and and
like just of the moment, like I just can't even
put words to it, like what did you think? Well, um,
So to give a little context about the this this story,
(03:47):
so this is actually in the game, UM, but in
the Last of Us part one, the first game, Bill
is a character who the the main care there's meat
on their journey and apparently you it's just kind of
like a throwaway moment where if you like hover over
(04:08):
a certain thing, you see a photo of his partner
who by the by the time the game happens, is
already dead. Um. And the creators of the show did
talk about this in the behind the Episode thing that
plays on HBO once the episode is done, and they
decided to expand that story um too, you know, like
(04:30):
tell Bill and Frank's story, because I think one of
them said something interesting, which is like, in adapting, they
only wanted to change things if they could make them better,
and this certainly does that. Um. I mean, like, I
thought it was very beautiful. I also thought it was
like obviously, like seeing gay love on screen is not radical,
(04:53):
but what felt, um not, what felt exciting about it
to me was that this is a show that's being
watched by you know, like normy straight people who played
this video game who are obsessed with it, and if
they're going to want to watch the show, they're going
to have to sit through watching a gay love story.
And I love that. I think that's I think that's
(05:16):
like transgressive. And I'm sure there's a lot of people
who were pissed about it, but I mean the fact
that they went so far and like they had this
sex scene which was like like like hot but also romantic,
and like beautiful and like touching because it's this older
man who's never had sex with another man. I like
(05:37):
thought was so cool, and I love how Murray Bartlett
immediately clopped him immediately. It was so sexy and fun
and like, as queer people watching this, we're kind of like, way, way, way,
is this happening? Is this happening? And then like for
just like on the line delivery, like the two of
(05:58):
them were just giving something that is totally unexpected, like
from like what the actual script is. And like, honestly,
Murray Bartlett, the way you are able to say, like
go take a shower, Bill, and for that to be
somehow the hottest thing like that, like that could not
be a better way to say, we're gonna fun. You
know what I said, break up that he said. He
(06:20):
was like that meme of the little dog that said,
I know what you are. He said, go go do,
go wash your ass, go wash your pussy, Billy Bartlett,
the man that you are. And I, like I I believe,
like I believed in their attraction to each other. I
also believed that like of course, in this extreme scenario,
(06:43):
Murray Bartlett, like he's been like wandering around the country
like in the Apocalypse, Like of course, I'm sure he's
thinking about like Okay, I'm gonna I'm gonna suck this
guy's brain out for his dick so that I get
to stay in his fortress with this like rabbit that
he's cooking. And I like that part where he said, like, um,
I'm not a whore, like not for lunch, no, like
(07:04):
no matter how good it is, so like if we
do this, I'm gonna stay here for another couple of days.
So there is something transactional about it. But then three
years later, but then it also is still really real.
And what gilled me was the scene with the strawberries
when into the strawberry and little giggle. Oh my god,
I didn't it was so real. That was the best part.
(07:29):
It's like they're actually they're both phenomenal actors. And like
in the conversation of like gay actors and gay gay
actors and gay roles whatever, like something we know I
don't care about. We don't care about I mean we
care about, but like not in the way that other
people care about it, right, Like people have very unnuanced
ideas of like who should play what, and like this
is a perfect example where you have talented actors making
(07:53):
great work. And I think that Murray Bartlett, as a
gay man in this role, bringing a gay sensibility to
the role created a foundation for them both to work on. Right, Like,
this is how you do it. This is how you
stick the landing, and you use like you you see
your vision, and you also are able to bring in
a phenomenal openly gay actor who's really good at what
(08:14):
he does to like make this even more real. Um
also as also as my mutual Nolan Anxious Deluxe said
on Twitter, um nick Offerman is married to Megan Malally,
so he is in a gay marriage and he's he's
part of the community. He is he's part of the community,
and that's so funny. Um. Also, like I never would
(08:38):
have thought about this if I didn't see um the
activist Peter Staley tweet about it. But like I didn't
even register the kind of like metaphor of like a
plague in like the story of two gay men specifically,
Like but like that that the obviously it's not a
ham fisted metaphor slash probably isn't even the intent of
(08:59):
the writers, but like the fact that they're the real
the realism of them choosing death together and how liberated
they both felt in choosing death is so beyond beautiful.
Especially you and I rose like we're morbid bitches, and
like you are a very morbid girl who like might
(09:20):
die in a cabin one day. You know what I
can do today? And I feel like that for for
gay men to have survived a plague and to choose
death on their own terms is nothing short of a
miracle in a zombie plague, let alone in our actual
lived reality. It really does. That was so radical, Yeah,
(09:42):
it really does, Like UM knowingly subvert the barrier gaze
trope while still like having the game by having the
gaze killed themselves. The gays buried themselves. Oh my god,
I will be honest in that the end of their story,
I was not quite as emotional as I had been.
(10:03):
Like for me, the high point of their like vignette
episode was the Strawberries, was was them getting attacked by
the raiders UM, and then the end of it. I like,
I still found it beautiful, but I also thought like
there was so much, almost too much time spent on it,
(10:23):
and it was a little like indulgent, And but I
did I liked when um Murray Bartlett's character said like, um,
you know, I'm not going to pretend that it's not
like objectively romantic that we're dying together, and like that
is it was really beautiful and also I mean it
was just it was funny too, like when Maurray Bartlett's like,
(10:46):
we're going to make friends, and like even in the
Apocalypse the gays are like, we're having brunch. I don't
think it. That is literally, oh my god. He's like,
I've been talking to a nice lady on the radio,
so fucking funny. Um, someone should give some much that,
like give it a show, you know, like, yes, I
met Bill and Frank had a drag night at some point,
(11:07):
you know, like they found a way to like watch
old episodes of drag Race. No, no no, no, honey, honey,
new episodes. You know, Rue is still going through the
zombie Okay, do you do you think? Well, because um,
drag Race like would never would not have happened because
the zombie Apocalypse started in two thousand three, so there's
no drag Race. There's no like Marvel Cinematic Universe. Beyonce
(11:32):
I never had a solo career, Oh my god, wait,
that's so much culture. Wow, that's really depressing to think about. Um.
I love imagining like this doomsday prepper, like trying to
figure out a way to make lube um in the apocalypse.
Um it was. I hope they just use coconut oil, right, Like,
(11:53):
that's like the best if you're in a pinch for
like butt sex. That is specifically, I have not I
have not yet gone to ourchive of our own to
check how much fan fiction has already been written about them,
but I'm sure it's like, well, okay, let's let's see
right now. Yeah, let's check right now, Okay, Bill, Bill
and Frank, there's already Okay, there's twenty six works. Um,
(12:17):
let's we'll we'll check back in next week and see
how many new ones there are. Um, okay, yeah, what else?
I mean? I watched a lot this weekend, I feel, Okay,
tell me, what are you watching? Okay? I don't know
what I was on, but I feel like I was
really playing catch up because I watched poker Face, this
Rihon Johnson show on People, the one with Natasha Leone, Yes,
(12:38):
Natasha Leone, among others, so much fun. I would really
be curious to know if you like it just because
you're a Knives outstand but not a glass onion stand.
And so we have like two different versions of Rion's work.
I'm not a Knives outstand. I enjoyed the movie, but
really I thought you were a true stand. I know,
I really like not stop tweeting about it when it
(12:59):
can amount, But maybe I did not. I don't think
I tweeted about it that much. It was like a
very popular movie that I enjoyed seeing, and that was
kind of it. There is a difference between liking something
and being a stand. Yes, no, you're still right, that's
and and standing. To say you're a stand is slanderous.
It's it's a misnomer and saying that and I am
(13:20):
an offended place. Um. Yeah, I'm interested in watching it
because from what I've heard is that the episodes are
very episodic and and you can kind of like pick
and choose the ones you watch. But what like, give
me your like top view, sell me on it, pitched
me the show. Yeah, So I mean I am a
Natasha Stan, and I will say a crystal clear Stan.
(13:44):
I adore her even if I stand, even though I
don't even like Russian doll that much, but like, I
just love her. Um. The show follows her a casino worker, um,
getting like graveled up in getting rolled up in some controversy. Um.
I guess with the people that owned the casino after
they discover that she has this kind of um superhuman
(14:06):
ability to tell if people are bluffing or not, to
tell if people are are lying or not. And is
it a superpower. It's not. It's not a literal superpower.
She's just kind of like a human detector. Yes, it's
her um Sherlock holmes Ian quality, like right, like every
every SUPERI every Yes, it's kind of like every detective
(14:29):
has a thing. Remember Cam Jansen, she had a photographic memory.
She said, click, you know, Natasha Leo, like you don't
remember that Cam Jansen mystery novels? Oh yes, Phoebe's entering
the chat. Than this is kind of lesbian. I feel
like this is kind of like lesbian canon. Is Cam
Johnson okay? The Secret World of Alex Mack where she
(14:51):
turned into a puddle? No, it was kind of like
Encyclopedia Brown for people that couldn't afford a Encyclopedia Brown maybe,
or like Junia b Jones in but like still some
like mystery component. Um So, anyways, she gets reveled up
in some controversy and it goes on the run for
reasons I won't spoil. And while she's on the run,
(15:11):
she keeps bumping into like a random miss murder mysteries
across the country, and um, it's very absurdest Okay, like
the fact that she keeps like stumbling upon these murders
is totally silly. But when you give your way get
when you give yourself to the kind of reality that
they're in, we're in. She just is constantly stumbling upon
(15:32):
these murders that she wants to solve. Um. I personally
love it, and I think that the acting is fun.
I think the writing is totally slapstick. I think the
jokes are really good and it's not um, each episode
isn't really a who done it? It's more of a
ye done it? Because again very Rihan Johnson, right, they
tell you who did it at the kind of in
(15:53):
like fifteen minutes into each episode and from there Natasha
walks in. It's a very interesting and I think original
to tackle mysteries. So when you do watch it, because
I think you will. Yeah, I'm I'm definitely interested in
checking it out. Um once. I'm currently in the midst
of my annual my Now annual Girls rewatch Alison Williams. Well,
(16:16):
after that, i think I'm gonna try watching Succession because
I've never watched it and I know it's coming back,
and um, I'm gonna I'm gonna give it the old
college try because I keep getting served TikTok's about it
and about the gays that everyone ships together or like
not gays whatever, they are all kind of gay. Speaking
(16:57):
of TV shows that I watch and you don't on
the flip side, Um, so, I watched this Now series
finale of gossip Girl last week and I just wanted
to do you care if I like spoil how it
ended because you still watching? Right? No? No, no spoilers.
I'm just curious, like, did the show and you don't
(17:19):
want spoilers? No idea? No? No, sorry, sorry, sorry, I
don't care about spoilers. I'm just mostly curious about was
the show aware that it was getting canceled or was
it a total clip? Yeah? So, um Joshua Saffron, who
was the show runner, who was a writer on the
original series, has said that he they originally intended for
the episode to be like an hour and twenty minutes,
(17:41):
and the last twenty minutes of it, which I'll take
place in Rome, really set up a lot of things
for the following season and introduced a new character, and
once he kind of saw the writing on the wall,
he went in and edited all that stuff out so
that it was more of a closed loop at the end.
So there character still is introduced, and you see a
(18:03):
couple of things that we're probably parts of that story,
but for the most part, there's on a ton of
actual cliffhangers. There are definitely things that aren't resolved. But
the big resolution is that Tavvy comes out as gossip
Girl because Um the kids all decide that they want
to take down gossip Girl, and they think that the
(18:25):
way to do that is by trying to like steal
her thunder So at the met Gala um Zoya, who's
the young character, she wears a dress that says I
am gossip Girl, and then they leak a story that
Ryan Murphy is trying to buy the rights to for
a gossip Girl TV show about Shanda Rhymes or something,
(18:45):
and tavvy Um is like, uh, they're not taking my
TV deal and shows up at Monetta tavern Um where
I coincidentally had dinner with Hunter Harris who writes on
the show last weekend, and Tavvy shows up and it's
like there's like, um, Mr Murphy, it's to me, I'm
Gossip Girl. Um wait is Ryan Murphy in it? No,
(19:09):
because because then everyone, like all of the teens are like,
oh my god, it was you because it was a setup.
And the cops come slap some handcuffs on her clink clink, bitch,
you're going to prison because she has all of this
like kind of teeny porn on her phone because she
was like cyberbullying kids and like like sexually harassed, cyber harassing,
(19:30):
cyber sexual passing children. So so what Joshua Safron has
said in some interviews is that they they kind of
always knew that the teachers would not be Gossip Girl
anymore post season two. Um, so they still would have
been part of the show going forward, but in in
like kind of diminished capacity. And there's a post credit
(19:53):
scene at the end of the finale in which one
of the teens, dad who like runs a media company,
approaches one of the teachers about turning Gossip Girl into
an app So that is probably what would have happened
in the third season. Um, and you know it was.
I'm sad it's it's gone. I really liked the reboot,
(20:16):
even though it was definitely flawed. Um And I think
what they were setting up was really interesting. I liked
some of the actors. UM. I thought that the guy
who played the slutty pan sexual Max was like really good.
He had a very emotional moment in the finale. I
(20:37):
really appreciated that. In the back half of this second season,
they started giving um Luna, who is played by Zion
whose name I can't remember, the transactress. They actually gave
her a storyline. She was great. She had like a
whole like thing with her mother being like, um faking
(21:00):
being Latin X. It was very like Hilaria Baldwin vibes.
So you know, rip Gossip Girl. Um, you will be
missed by like twenty people probably, and um, it's definitely
you know, they're still like hold like kind of holding
out hope that the show might be saved, but even
(21:20):
Joshua Saffern has said it's the show is too expensive
to exist. Anywhere else. Oh, it's expensive. It's like it's
the fashion, Like it's expensive in terms of production, the
way it looks, the clothes, everything. And he's just said
if they had to cut the budget, it just wouldn't
(21:43):
be the same show. And he doesn't want to make
a cheaper version of it. Damn. I honestly, I felt
like the reboot was totally earned, like I was ready
for it. It just like it wasn't. I don't think
it was for me. But r I P. I'm so
sorry for your loss. Another one, another one. I'm gonna
be fine. I'll be okay. Now I have to pivot
(22:03):
to shows that like won't get canceled. Oh, so you're
gonna you're finally gonna watch a Fleishman in Trouble or whatever? No,
are you watching Fleishman in Trouble? I watched the first
two and a half episodes of Fleishman in Trouble because
so many people told me to watch By so many people?
Do you mean Justin told you to watch it? Because
Join and I have talked about it, and I did
(22:25):
not understand why he was watching it. I told him
it looks like the most heterosexual thing possible, and that
I feel like it's the kind of show that gay
people like when they turn on their TV screens all
that they see a static Yeah, like yeah, gay people
like actually physically cannot see it. That's kind of how
I felt. I'm I guess it's a mini series that's
(22:46):
maybe based on a book question Mark. It kind of
feels like it's in the normal people genre of TV,
or like maybe um Elena Ferranti novel genre like Elena
Ferrante like adaptations, where it's like beautiful, slow stories about
human heterosexual relationships, and like you know, and I, um,
(23:06):
I just I felt I feel duped because like in
the key r of the show, like Claire Danes and
Lizzie Kaplan are the only characters shown and present, And
and then you click on the first episode and you're like,
this is a story about how Jesse Eisenberg fucked his
way across New York. And you're like, what, Yeah, that's
literally Eisenberg doesn't fuck. Yes, that's what I'm saying. And
(23:30):
I had to watch Jesse Eisenberg suck so many women
in like like a few minutes, and I was like,
where is Lizzie? Where is Claire? Yes, I I just
I didn't understand. And the writing, Okay, I will, I
will admit the writing is like really great, Like, but
I it's just about subject matter that does not concern me, right,
Like I don't watch things about men on principle most
(23:53):
of the time, you know. And I felt like I
came out of this being like why did I who
told me that this was gonna be a good show?
It was Justin? Because Justin has tested me several times
after that initial conversation to tell me that he was
still watching In Trouble. Oh my god, I don't. I
(24:13):
don't get it. I I really don't, and I am
I want I want these hours of my life back. Um,
But so virgins don't watch Fleishman's In Trouble. I couldn't
even bring it. I couldn't even bring myself to like
hate watch it at that point because like it was
like actually kind of good TV. It was just like
subject matter that I hated and didn't want to watch.
(24:34):
And okay, well this this is interesting. Do you often
hate watch things? Oh all the time, baby, all the time.
I I constantly if everyone's talking about it, I need
to watch it, right, Like that's why we are different. Women. Look, Yeah,
(24:55):
it's true. Okay, wait, this is actually very prevalent because
I watched Real House Friends of West Hollywood or whatever,
the real gay the Real Gay Friends of West Hollywood. Um,
and so I was thinking a lot that this has
proved that that nymphle Wars is right about literally everything,
and they everything in the culture. They are oracles of culture. Um. Okay, wait,
(25:18):
I have some thoughts about the wee host stuff, but
like real quick, like, what's what is your philosophy on
hate watching slash? You're saying you don't really do it? Yeah,
I'm I don't watch things that I don't enjoy, and
I don't understand why anyone would, well, because I think
criticizing things is fun, and I think I personally find
(25:38):
a lot of like I I feel satiated by watching
something that other people like and then identifying why it's
not good. I could that I could not could not
be me and not be me. I understand, I understand,
and but that that I will also stipulate is like
(25:59):
a be true of like gay ship right, like gay
and transship like ship that like is trying to be
representative quote unquote of our community, which is like a
fallacy and like nobody should represent anyone like that if
we've like learned anything at this point so far. Like
the show Real house I don't even know what it's
(26:21):
sucking called because it's the Real Friends of we Ho,
it's such a it's such a word salad, like it
needs another syllable in order to mirror Real Housewives of Mamma,
you know what I mean. Like, it's it's just not
it's difficult, nobody can remember what it's called. Um, but
it's also just obviously really bad. It's the thing is,
(26:43):
it's not even that it's terrible. It is just boring,
which is the worst thing it could possibly be. Because
I did, I did try. We'll not try. But I
had friends come over last week to watch drag Race,
and like, of course we started watching it when it
came on afterwards, of course, and it wasn't even that
we were like boo throwing tomatoes at the screen. We
(27:06):
just mind numbing it was. It was just boring and
we started talking and eventually, like without even realizing it,
turned it off. The same thing. Um, I was at
Ryan's this past weekend. It came on after drag Race,
and he was like, on the phone or something, and
so I watched the first couple of minutes of it
and just zoned out and was on my phone because
it's boring. I agree, and I do think that boring
(27:30):
is the thing we should be saying because to your point, Rose,
and this is kind of why I want to talk
about like hate watching. It's like we're actually giving this
way too much energy, right, like something like the real
whatevers of West Hollywood is like not even worth the
hate watch, And like, yeah, I'm similar to you. After
(27:50):
Drag Race, I watched it with a bunch of friends.
We were like, let's watch and make fun of it.
And while we were watching it, and I was giggling
actually because it is incredibly stupid. But like while we
were watching, I was like, my god, I wonder how
many people are hate watching it right now, because no
one in this room is enjoying the show. And is
it Like I was like, is it going to get
great ratings because it's so it's such a hate watch
(28:12):
and it's not because it actually is just boring. But
like I think, just to the effect of what you're saying,
like this like bizarre kind of like weird hyper attention
to the show and like what it means for the culture,
and like all the memes it's generating, and all this
stuff just like is really smelly, Like it doesn't mean
(28:33):
anything to the culture. It's so it's so like bland
and inoffensive and just it's like a nothing burgers. It's
a nothing burger. It's it's not interesting. And I feel
like that all the things that people are placing on
top of it, all the critique, right this Vulture article,
which like people were sharing on Twitter, like it's actually
(28:53):
just like the show isn't even that bad. It's really
actually just like what I'm smelling is just internalized homophobia,
which is nothing new, but like we shouldn't be saying,
you know, uh, these people are horrible and not even
fucking famous and they're not even real friends and they're
bad representation or whatever. It's like you could Real Housewives. Yes,
that's what I was gonna say. We don't need any
(29:15):
of that from the Real Housewives, like, but just need
them to be interesting and exciting and fun to watch exactly.
The Real Housewives are funny, magnanimous, irreplicable, Like well, Good
Housewives is funny, magnanimous, irreplicable, messy, controversial and like none
of these men are any of them? Well, I think no,
(29:36):
Brad Driski is great. Tadrick Hall is like no gen
Shaw level of unwatchable, Like I mean, you don't watch
salt Lake. But like Tadrick is the reason why this
show is like brows in itself right, and bros Is
now a verb thanks to Billy Eichner, because like, what
the argument to any degree when we say, like queer
(29:57):
people need to support this and if you don't support this,
then you don't support for media, It's just like such
it anti intellectual. Take that as like Ti Mitchell pointed
out on this podcast and tweeted about later, like so
many queer representation quote unquote arguments are really just this
thinly veiled way to say, like I'm not personally famous,
(30:18):
but I should be, you know what I mean? Like
that is actually like what we were watching Tadrick do
online when he was writing all these like handwritten letters
which were certainly handwritten by unpaid interns because there's like
five different fonts on them. Yeah, it's kind of wild
that like his that Tadrick's handwriting is like I think
(30:39):
it is his handwriting because like it's he still has
the handwriting of like a high school senior. Like it's
like it's like bubble letters, like bubbles were like that,
like you know the f the like swords that used
to draw in your notebooks from the middle school. Hearts
on the eyes like curls empty font like I've aid
(31:00):
every dancer I've promised payment to curls mt. Fine, Well,
all that means that he did people or he let
them think they were going to get paid, and then
it turned out that he had never intended to. Yeah, anyways, Um,
it's all of this is coming back to say in
(31:21):
the breath of what I felt was worth hate watching.
And what I want to say about this show is
that we don't need to like patently reject it because
it's like bad gay representation. We can patently reject it
because it's category bad and boring and contrived and like, also,
we just like want to watch women, Like let's just
say that, like we like we want to watch women
(31:43):
on TV. Like gay men don't want to watch each
other on TV. And I think it's because you know,
a lot of them hate themselves and that's like fine,
but they should work that out, like without having to
write a Vulture article. You know what I mean. Yeah,
the idea of reading a Vulture art cool about real
friends of who just gives me hives. It literally reminded
(32:05):
me of when the Fire Island TV show came out
and that one faggot for like huff Post Gay Voices
r I p Um wrote something that was like that
wrote something that was about like Fire Island is like
representative of gay America's moral decline, and I was like, girl,
I'm sorry to a dick, yes like suck nick Offerman,
(32:28):
smelly post apocalyptic dick. And I'm sorry to make this
joke again, but I have to say again that if
you are a queer person who's saying that we as
queer people need to writ large like support all queer media,
then you have so many Adam Lambert albums to listen to,
like I'm sorry, Like you have a back catalog of
(32:50):
you know, Randy Rainbow YouTube videos. But that one thing
(33:12):
I would never hate watch is anything starring Sarah Michelle
Gellar because I love her and she's never made a
bad film or TV show in her life. I love
the way you choked on that. Well, that's because she's
never made up that that's because I'm trying to swallow
this dried this dried mango I'm eating, I'm sure. But
(33:33):
today we will be discussing one of her greatest contributions
to culture, um Cruel Intentions, which I have watched recently.
So true, True to the True, to the virgins here
to represent. So the first time I ever saw Cruel Intentions,
I rented it from Blockbuster and watched it with my dad,
(34:00):
and I was it was came out, so it would
have been like on home video in two thousand maybe,
so I was twelve, and the last thing I wanted
to be doing while watching this movie was sitting next
to my dad. It's a very strange movie to watch
(34:21):
with your parents, especially parent to you like, I have
nothing in common within I could never don't know how
to talk to. But your parents were not the like
throw their hands in front of your eyes kind of parents. Well,
my mom did used to tell me to cover my
eyes during the sex scenes and then you wouldn't insects
in the city and I would cover them and then
(34:42):
kind of thing through. Yeah, yeah, my parents, yes, truly,
anytime we would want what's like a movie, they made
me close my eyes honestly, any any Mission Impossible movie.
I have a visceral memory of the violence. You know,
the sex scenes. There's always a sex scene in every
Mission Impossible movie. And my parents I should be like no,
and I'd be like, I want to see Tom cruises dick,
(35:04):
So I want to suck Tom Cruise's dick. He looks
the same, he's he's a vampire, like an ageless vampire. No,
but he has recently he looks like he's aged a
little bit. But it's been good for him. Yeah, it's
been hot. I I want you know seasoned men. Also
(35:25):
loved him when he was a twink, and I loved
him when he had bad teeth before he got those
you told me before he got those top and Bottom veneers, Mama, Okay,
I I loved him bad teeth. But like I honestly
had not thought because I famously did not see top
Gun and I have not seen Tom Cruise in any
recent movie. But I also I was able to clue
(35:46):
into the fact that Tom Cruise is hot now after
he did the Bloody Mary Dance. Child, he did, you
should watch it. He did the Bloody Mary Dance. He
loves Gaga. After after loves Gaga and he did it
to support her at like and did it like outside
his mansion or whatever, and he's he looks hot. Like
(36:08):
what if they walk the red carpet together at the Oscars?
Oh my god, you know that, you know that I
want them to be together. I think that would be
an award. I bet that would That would be the
ultimate celebrity couple. To me, Tom Cruise of a person
who like it's not even about if he's gay or not.
It's just he's such a freak. His sexuality doesn't matter
(36:31):
him being in a couple with Lady Gaga also a
freak in in just like an opposite but parallel way.
Oh my god, Oh my god, I want that so badly.
It is an opposite of a parallel way. And they
both are highly susceptible to cults. They're they're both um,
(36:51):
they're both really good at the performance of celebrity right,
like they both understand what being a celebrity is and
like how to live and breathe at And I also
think that Gaga has this like truly like biological like
biological like impulse to like fall in love with every
co star she's ever as so so like so like
(37:14):
because she's like Standislavski or whatever, she just like can't
help but like fall in love with like Bradley Cooper
and then like Tom Cruise, even though Tom Cruise is
not a co star, but like, you know, structurally, but
if she had the closest thing she had, if Tom
Cruise had been the star the co star of a
star is born, they would they would be in a relationship,
There's no question of mine. I mean her and Bradley
(37:36):
Cooper would be in a relationship if Bradley Cooper wasn't
gay but allegedly allegedly, allegedly alleged allegedly. Um yeah, but
I can't wait for her to fall in love with
Joaquim Phoenix. I mean it's probably already happened. It's happening
right now. It's happening literally. I mean, she's not doing
any press right now because she's so immersed in that movie.
Is going to absolutely destroy me. Oh my god, I'm
(38:00):
of coffee. Look at all my had such a beautiful
lip color on, and now it's like now it's on
your now it's all on my coffee. That's why you
got to use a straw, babe, I gotta use a straw. Yeah,
better for your teeth too. UM well, I forgot that
we're here to talk about cruel intentions. We are here
to talk about cruel intentions. UM the UM teen psycho
(38:20):
sexual thriller, which is not um, a phrase you hear often. UM.
It is a reimagining of uh Pierre code Leo still
Laclos's seventeen eighty two novel Les Liaison's Don Jerroses or
(38:40):
Dangerous Liaisons as it has also been known, But it
takes that story and updates it to the elite teen
prep school scene in New York City in the late nineties,
sort of like an early gossip Girl. And I'm sure
it had a lot of influence on gossip Girl, which
we were talking about earlier. UM It's stars Um Sarah
(39:04):
Michelle Gellar as UM, Catherine who Katherine Murty who is
you know the Queen be the Blair Waldorf if you
will of her you know, elite um prep scene, and
then her stepbrother, Sebastian Valmont played by Ryan Philippe. They
have this sort of game they play where they seduce
(39:27):
people and destroy them for their own ships and giggles.
They also Ryan PHILIPPI really wants to fuck Sarah Michelle Geller,
his stepsister, and she issues him this challenge that if
he fux this um new girl played by Reese Witherspoon
(39:47):
um and destroys her, that if if he can get
her to fall in love with him, because you know
she would never fall for a bad boy, um, that
SMG will finally fuck him in. That's sort of pseudo
incest scenario. And as she tells him, you can put
it anywhere, which I guess me, and he wants to
(40:10):
suck her in the ass. Sarah, I don't know if
everyone came in with the intention to like make this
actually like funny, but like Sarah Michelle Geller makes this
movie so funny, so being yes, it is also still
sexy dangerous, like you know, gripping. I feel, Um, I
(40:31):
don't know if this is like I'm trying to think
about the source material s Stangroue or whatever, and I
the virgins. Maybe you said that the virgin sound like
the shot from from the Little Mermaid. Oh my god, wait,
(40:52):
I can't wait for the live action version of that character.
Who's going to play that? Friends? They probably cut it? No,
Timmy Timoth a Shaley would have even that, oh my god,
I would have spoken French, oh my god. But then anyways, okay,
side track, side track, Um, I think that dangerous. This
lion Standrew is like spoofed in Arrest Development, where they're
(41:17):
like Michael, Sarah's character watches a movie called The Lick Cousin,
the Cousins DANGERU or these like cousins fuck or whatever,
and it gives it plants the seed of an idea
where he's like wants to funck his like step step
cousin or whatever. Um, are they I can't remember? Are
they cousins, cousins in cruel intentions? Are they step cousins? No? No,
they're stepbrother and step sister, step brother and step sister, right,
(41:42):
so they're not biologically related that they're not. No, it's
totally It's totally fine. It's totally totally fine. It is camp.
I mean some of Sarah's line deliveries in this, like
I mean when she says you can put it anywhere,
when she says, I'm the Marcia fucking Brady of the
Upper east Side and some times I want to kill myself.
(42:02):
She has a she has a hollowed out cross necklace
filled with cocaine that has a tidy spoon for her
to do cocaine with this movie? Was I really wish
that I had had this movie as a part of,
you know, the small group of films that like opened
up my secular awakening as we call it, along with
(42:24):
a Mulan rouge rent Um, if your mom, if you
had watch this with your mom and she'd the cross
that she would ross, she would you would have had
to go through an exorcism. Yes, she would have expelled. Um. Yeah,
you would have shoot. There would have been a demon
inside you and she would have gotten it out. But
I I know, truly I I would have been I
(42:46):
would have I would have grown up so much faster. Um.
But I say that honestly because I feel like, and
I don't even think I'm exaggerating when I say this,
I do feel like Ryan Philippe is like ass was
a pivotal moment in a lot of you know, people
of Fagga experience. You know what I mean. Well, the
combination of his ass while love fool by the Cardigans
(43:09):
is playing Oh my God, I forgot that really, like
was a gay awakening for so many people on so
many levels. Wait, I forgot that love fool is playing?
Are you serious? And it gets cut off very abruptly,
this mute. This movie has a banging soundtrack, bittersweet symphony
by the Verve. They put their whole pussy into that.
(43:32):
Also the opening song Every Me and Every You, which
is by Placebo. I believe Placebo, I don't know, I
I honestly. Roger Cumbell, the guy that directed this, also
did the sweetest thing. I love thee the best sort
(43:52):
of like not like one of the best, like kind
of um off the beaten track, like not early tooth
thousands comedies that like it's kind of a if you know,
you know, absurdist, totally stupid, like totally intentionally stupid. Also
starring Selma Blair, who in that movie is kind of
(44:14):
the I'm not gonna say slut of the group. But
there is a scene in which a guy's dick is
literally stuck in her mouth right because of the piercing
Oh my god, that is such a funny scene. I mean,
Cameron is also such a slot in that movie, and
I think it's very liberating. Like she also she's a
whole song about like how big the penises, how big.
(44:34):
She how she loves big penises or whatever, and it's
not even a musical, but then she like breaks out
into song. It's kind of brilliant. It's a very strange movie. Um,
but this was a strange time for movies, the late
nineties early two thousands, and Cruel Intentions is certainly a
product of that. I mean, it also came at um
(44:55):
an interesting time in Sarah Michelle Geller's career because she
was and she would have been two years into doing Buffy,
so this was one of her like sort of infrequent
side projects. So at this time, um, Buffy was already
like a huge hit. Like like now we think of
(45:16):
Buffy is the show that has this like cult following,
but at the time it was hugely successful. It was
Sarah Michelle Geller was everywhere, and I do think that
a lot of this movie rides on her star power.
And Ryan Philippie and Reese Witherspoon, Honestly, at this time
(45:37):
we're still relative unknowns um. They also this was the
film that they met on and um, they later got married,
so it did bring them together. Wow, I didn't know that. Okay, wait,
so wait, Reese Witherspoon was unknown when this movie came out,
I had not unknown, but she wasn't like super famous.
(45:57):
I think, I want to say Election also came out.
I do feel like this was the year that Reese
broke and UM. Yeah, and I'm sure that um cruel intentions,
what was what really brought her to the attention of
young people. And then Legally Blonde came out in two
(46:21):
thousand and one, so that is really what solidified her fame.
UM and I think this was probably like the first
building block of that got it okay, okay, And I
am you know, and I'm not an SMG scholar, so
I appreciate the context because she really is, to me,
like the anchor of this movie. Like it's it is
(46:44):
like an ensemble cast. Um that feels like in the
kind of closer genre of like you know, psycho sexual
thrillers and absolutely closer closer for teens. Yes, well teens
that are played by twenty six year olds, right, like,
but Sara Michelle Gellar, you know, she is like Buffy
(47:06):
is such a you know, she's a strong female character.
She's a heroine. She's a good girl, but she's also
very sassy. But we hadn't really seen smg play a
bad girl since well, she was on a soap opera
before she was on Buffy, and I'm sure she was
like an evil twin or something, because you know that's
how soap operas go. Um, so she got to, you know,
(47:28):
dip her toe into playing the bad girl, and I
think she fucking slays it. She played the bad girl
every time, like she's so so fucking good on Buffy.
She only got the chance to do that in There's
there's a couple episodes and well there's one episode in
season four where Buffy and Faith swap bodies. Faith is
(47:49):
another vampire slayer who's who's evil and she and Buffy
swap bodies. So Buffy gets to be a bad girl
for an episode. But um, you know, Catherine is really
the the evilist Sarah has ever played, except she was
in this TV show called The Ringer where she played
identical twins and one of them was bad. Maybe okay,
(48:12):
So sa Michelle Geller is on a press tour right
now for this new Paramount show I believe called wolf Pack,
which is a spinoff of Teen Wolf, and I saw
an interview in which she said that she thinks that
Katherine from Cruel Intentions grown Up would basically just be
(48:32):
her character from Due Revenge. But I also think that
Catherine from Cruel Intentions grown Up would be would be
um Sonja Morgan or like or just would would be
a real housewife on a New York City housewife. I mean, honestly,
(48:52):
you know who else should be a New York City housewife?
Is Christine Branski? Please? Maybe maybe lou Anne is Catherine
grown up Luanna? I would love to see Lunn act.
She's probably so bad. You mentioned Christine Bransky. There's something
(49:24):
there as some iconic I don't like some people who
have like just a few scenes in this film. Christine
Bransky is one of them. Also, tera Read in the
opening scene, um because Sebastia, she's one of Sebastian's conquests
and he's leaked all these nudes of her online in
a sort of like revenge porn scenario, and tera Read
(49:47):
has the iconic line, there's naked pictures of me on
the internet, which relatable honestly, an oracle, she she was
predicting what would be common and evident like problem in
the culture of nudes leaking online. And now you know,
soon we're going to be electing people to office that
have leaked nudes. That's that's my dream, honestly. UM, do
(50:09):
you okay, So when you first watched this movie was
it do you remember just like latching onto it immediately?
Because SMG? Did you was it a rewatch for you?
Did you like watch it every day after school or
I had the vhs then the DVD. I would watch
them all the time. I would quote the movie all
the time. I wanted to be Sarah Michelle Geller in
(50:32):
this movie. I knew immediately that I was not a
Reese Witherspoon. I was not a good girl. I was
a bad girl. No, no, no. And Reese honestly cloy
is cloying Lee sweet. She almost does what she does best,
which is like to be good to an exhaustive degree.
Like she is so pure that it's like annoying. Um.
I was watching this movie with my friend. I was
(50:53):
watching Cool Intentions with my friend for the first time,
and we were marking on. There's this scene where Reese
is like in a car with like that with I
think Ryan Philippe, as they're like flipping and trying to yes, yes, yes,
and she like starts to make she like makes the
demon face. She's so she's so bad at making a
goofy face. Like I actually like, if I was a
(51:15):
director and I was watching, I was like, Reese, like,
you you need to do something else, Like, oh no,
I think that's you know, but I do. I just
don't think she knows how to make a face that
is like goofy and evil at the same time. Like
I just like, I was like, clearly, it's like not
(51:36):
in your nature to do this reeson with her spoon.
I thought it was like endearing almost I'm not trying
to be condescending except you, but it might not be
what you're trying to do, but it's what you're doing.
But it's what you're doing. Um oh some of okay,
Phoebe just clude us into some of Blair and legally blonde. Yes, well,
(51:56):
I mean some of Blair was definitely an it girl
at the time that this movie came out and remained
one for years. Um. She also she and Sarah Michelle
Geller are lifelong friends. Um. Sarah has supported her a
lot recently because elma UM a couple of years ago,
uh you know, revealed that she has been dealing with
(52:18):
a chronic illness. I believe ms UM she was on
I think the most recent season of Dancing with the Stars,
although they do like four of them a year, so
there could have been like two more seasons since she
was on it. Um she was. I don't think she
was on the same season as Jojo Siwa, but I
think she was on the same season as Smith Jared
(52:39):
from Sex in the City Smith Jared, Oh my god,
the one he was my favorite. Sex in the City boo. Unfortunately,
this movie has an iconic same sex kiss between Sarah
Michelle Gellar and Selma Blair, in which Sarah Michelle Geller is,
you know, saying that girls just on each other all
(53:01):
the time, and they have this very hot kiss. That
was I think probably the thing that people remember most
from this movie because it was in a pre meme world.
It was a meme like it was replicated in movies.
I think there's I think in one of the Scary
movie films they spoof it um Sa Michelle Gellar and
(53:22):
some of Blair one best kiss with the MTV Movie Awards,
I think, and maybe even like kissed on stage. Um
It's I think it's a good kiss. I it reminds me,
is there like a little spit dribble, there is a
little they are, Yes, it's hot. We have talked about
spit kink's recently on our Disobedience episode. Yeah, I will
(53:47):
say like when I watched it, I felt like it
was it definitely was hot. It definitely did to me
feel like exactly in this era of culture when like
straight women kissing was this like sexual kind of phenomenon
that like got boys really rowdy. Like we were kind
of talking about this in our Jennifer's Body episode, but
(54:09):
like do you remember do you remember like when you
would go to like Walmart or Target whatever to like
buy movie posters or like just like posters for your
room and I would I would buy them a hot topic, yes,
hot topic as well. But one of those posters was
always those two girls and like gray like underwear or whatever,
(54:31):
like kissing on a bed. Do you remember this image?
Like oh my god? But but anyways, all I'm trying
to say is like it was just like this very
bizarre era of culture that like talked about lesbians and
erased lesbians at the same time. It was it was
it was it was lesbian is um from the male gaze,
(54:52):
which you know, lesbians only existed in popular culture to
titillate straight man, Yeah exactly. But but this I felt
like was something that we could still embrace. Like it
was queer, Like it was like totally like this, this
I think to me, this movie, and like what it
(55:14):
did best was like revel in hedonism, right, Like it
was like this, what is the maximum bad? You can
be like, well, well, revel in, revel in it, but
still but cast it as evil because what we because
the journey of this movie is that Sebastian starts out
as a hedonist, falls in love, and then rejects hedonism
(55:37):
and is punished for his hedonistic lifestyle because he spoiler
alert dies at the end and Catherine, who sort of
drove him to this, gets her come up and when
all of Sebastian's diaries are our oh yeah, like uh
disseminated throughout the school and so bizarre. It is a
(56:00):
movie that but that celebrates hedonism but then takes this
very puritanical view of it. And you know, the only
love that is celebrated and upheld is you know, straight
monogamous romantic love and and and what more could we
possibly wish for than straight monogamous romantic love. And that's
(56:23):
what that's the reason I'm on tender Babe. Yeah, I mean,
I know, like heterosexually. I know, I'm aware that, like
as you adjust your legs, I'm aware that like heterosexuality
is like slowly but surely becoming like illegal in this country,
like with hope, like it will be like a criminal offense, um,
one day, but lock them up. For now, I will
(56:45):
be practicing heterosexuality to the fullest extent that I can. Um. Interesting, Yeah,
I love being heterosexual. Um. Oh, you know what it's not.
It's not scary movie that parodies the this It's not
another teen movie? Which did you ever watch that? No?
(57:06):
Was it? It seemed like I always like was horny
whenever I saw it in Blockbuster it made me horney.
So not another teen movie? Is there was? After the
successive scary movie, there was a string of these sort
of spoof films for different genres. The first of them,
and I think most successful, was not another teen movie,
(57:27):
which was Chris Evans's breakout role. Right. He plays the
like Jock you know, main character who is like half
Freddie Prince Jr. And she's all that and half Ryan
Phillippi and cruel intentions. He has like a similar thing
(57:47):
with his stepsister where he wants to suck her. Um
and um, there is a scene of the lesbian kiss
and they like go really in on the spit thing
and it's like to a gross level that actually sounds
really funny. Um, I kind of want to watch that now. Um.
(58:09):
It's but it's a good movie. I used to watch
it a lot. I had it on DVD, and I
used to watch it a lot, and it was I
had a teen crush on Chris Evans because of it. Well,
I think the teen genre in general, like in the
vein of cruel intentions or whatever else you want to
pull into it, Like I think it's like endlessly entertaining
to revisit. Like I watched a lot of Riverdale, Like
(58:30):
I've watched four seasons, like four full seasons of Riverdale, right,
like I've I think teen ship and the exaggeration of
like how bad teen lives can be. Like by bad,
I mean like how um daring controversial, Irreverend you can
be like in this kind of like hot topic air
(58:51):
of culture is like so funny to look at now,
Like I've actually never seen the movie, um, thirteen, but
that's kind of in this genre and you have to
watch thirteen. Oh my god, No, you're not allowed to
say that because you don't understand the context. I've seen
the scene on YouTube and I feel, but you need
(59:12):
to watch the whole movie. Thirteen is so incredible. It
inspired me to huff as a teenager. It's inspired NA,
you need like barbitual barbituates or whatever, like you wanted
to like like Judy like and like um like whipp
(59:33):
it's with um whipped cream cans with it, you know. Today,
Like I know, we were just talking about Gossip Girl
and how I liked the reboot. But for the most part,
I can't watch media about teenagers. We have discussed this
at length. It's the reason why I don't want euphoria. Um.
But you know, like things like Euphoria and gossip Girl
(59:54):
truly would not exist without cruel intentions. It is the blueprint,
I think, so yeah, or maybe also I actually have
never seen like Dawson's Creek, but like, are any of
those shows like Dawson's Creek O C Like is that
era of TV? Also this kind of like teens being
like murderous drug dealers or whatever, like no, no, Dawson's Creek.
(01:00:16):
I didn't watch Dawson's Creek, but I believe Dawson's Creek
is much more um, it doesn't reach that level. It's
much more like interpersonal drama, like family drama. UM. And
I also didn't watch The o C. But I know
the O C is like not quite at that level.
I think Gossip Girl is kind of where we started
(01:00:39):
seeing um, where we got the most of teens behaving
like adults and specifics specifically because of their access to
our proximity to wealth. M Oh okay, yeah, wait, how
does wealth kind of exist in cruel intentions? I guess
(01:01:02):
just well, they're all they're all very wealthy, you know.
They they have unlimited resources and no parental supervision, so
they are Yeah, it's the no parental surround, that's the
big thing. It's like, the richer you are, the less
parent involvement you have in your day to day. That
was the one difference on Gossip Girls that their parents
(01:01:25):
were someone in the original Gossip Girl is that their
parents were someone involved and the parents were actual characters
on the show who had their own romantic dramas and
like their own plot lines. But you know, for the
most part, the kids did act like adults. They were
like going clubbing and like having these like making these
(01:01:47):
like grand schemes that were obviously like in a way
fueled by being teenagers, being dumb teenagers with like raging hormones.
But because they had unlimited resources, they could you know,
can cause to these like elaborate schemes and behave like
you know, um eighteenth century aristocrats having you know, like
(01:02:07):
um intrigues. Yeah, honestly, I mean like it was I
think that like experiencing even though I didn't see cruel
intentions as a kid, Like when this like genre of
kind of like TV films whatever was like coming through,
I feel like I could attach. I feel like it
was so aspirational to me. This is like really dark.
(01:02:28):
But like I, you know, was a very unhappy kid.
I did not enjoy my childhood, and a lot of
that had to do with my parents. And so these
lives without parents, which I think are are present and
a lot of like teena and kid you know, like
things like I, you know, I wanted that so bad.
I wanted a life without parental supervision. I wanted a
(01:02:51):
life for my own, and they would give us this
fantasy where in kids were like teens were fully capable
of doing it. We're in reality, it's like teens actually
do still behave like children, like none of them actually
act like this, and so you know, it was a fantasy,
but I loved that ship. Oh you know, what we
do have to talk about is the gay stuff and
cruel intentions. Joshua Jackson of Dawson's Creek Fame plays Sebastian's
(01:03:19):
gay friend who helps him in trap Betty's boss from
Ugly Betty Daniel into being outed as gay. So that
so that so that Ryan Phillippe can use him to
like get get into Reese Witherspoon's good graces. Oh my god,
(01:03:42):
I forgot that Daniel meat. Is this dick and cock
sucking dick and cock? Absolutely? Um yeah, I mean gay blackmail,
bring it back. Seriously, we're about we're to like cancel culture,
like like representation matters to have that kind of fashion blackmail.
(01:04:05):
We do Fran blackmail and would blackmail you any day.
Oh my god, thank you. I would love to blackmail you.
I would love to out you as trans I mean
thank you. I think we how we have both emotionally
blackmailed each other somewhat successfully. You know that can't be true.
It's true, And you know what, I think that's beautiful.
(01:04:30):
I think and I think that's beautiful. Um wow. I mean,
like I honestly like I'm I felt like when I
watched this movie, I was like watching it through your eyes?
Can I say that? Like, because we got my eyes
they're gone. The virgins at home can't see, but the
roses eyes are now gushing blood. They're now gone. And
(01:04:51):
I'm like the Corinthian from Sandman. I just have little teeth.
You're giving pans labyrinthy, your eyes are on your hands.
Um No. I was just gonna say, like, because we've
been doing the show for a while and because you know,
I'm the version so to speak, when I like in
these you know, in our in the episodes that we've
released so far, Like you know, I'm not always the virgin.
(01:05:12):
We like to just talk about what we like to
talk about. But when I am the virgin, I feel,
you know, I'm always just like, oh, I wonder what, like,
like I wonder how Rose would think about this scene?
You feel I feel close to you anytime I can
see something like this. This very this is a kind
of Rose movie to me movie, this movie was incredibly
(01:05:32):
formative to my personality. I wanted to be Catherine. I
wanted to be an evil, manipulative bitch who would funk
her step brother, blackmail people, destroy their crucifix, and snort
cocaine out of my holida out crucifix. Please let in
(01:06:00):
to our d m s at like a virgin tell us,
do you want to suck your stepbrother? Um? Have you ever?
Have you ever blackmailed someone for being gay? And what
is your favorite? Um? Sarah Michelle Geller Media Property. Wait wait, wait,
I actually would love to know the answer to those
first two questions of any other virgins. Share we're at
(01:06:21):
We're being fully serious and we will um. We won't
let your messages after you send them, but we won't
use them against you. We won't. Next week we will
be back with a discussion on Dolly parton the woman,
the myth, the legend. Um. So uh you know join
us for that yehaw. You can um connect with us
(01:06:43):
on Instagram like a virgin. UM. My handles at Rose Damn.
You can follow me anywhere online there and I'm Fran toato.
You can find me at friends Squish to go anywhere
you like. Like a virgin ism I radio production. Our
producers Phoebe Unter, with support from Lindsay Hoffman and Nikki Etre.
(01:07:07):
Until next week. It's a bitter sweet symphony that's live
trying to make and meet your slave too money to
you die. Do Do Do Do Do Do Do Do
Do Do Do Do Do Do Do. Why did I
(01:07:33):
sing that as if I was the lead singer of
nickel Back, I well, you're kind of yeah, there is
a kind of nickelbacking on quality. There's photo but it
also kind of sounds like Ganga, Like you know how
Ganga sometimes goes like full Nickelback and she's like you
know what I mean? Um oh oh, I know what
(01:07:55):
you mean. I do
Thank you for letting me get that off my chest. Rose,
I'm I'm supposed to do it. Yeah, this is this
is an unsafe space, but it is a space nonetheless
welcome to. Like a version of the show where we
give yesterday's pop culture today's takes. I'm Rose, damn you,
(00:24):
and I am Fran Toronto, and we are going to
give literally yesterday's pop culture today's takes because it is Monday,
and we are gonna talk about the gay episode of
the Last of Us. So, Fran, I was able to
convince you to watch The Last of Us and you were,
as you were, fully caught up. So before we even
(00:45):
get into last night's episode, just like, what generally are
you feeling about the show now that you've watched it.
I am adoring it. Um. I was never like a
horror movie genre buff growing up as a kid. However,
my cousins and I loved the zombie genre and we
thought zombie stories were so cool growing up. And I
(01:06):
feel like I have this kind of nostalgic attachment to
like old school zombie stories. And so when you told
me about this show and how it's kind of bringing
prestige to like a well trotted genre. I don't think
I ever could have expected what came from it, and
I think that this most recent episode I was able
to kind of see what this show does best, which
(01:28):
is almost make you forget that it's a zombie show.
Like your zombies are used or the infected as they
call them, the clickers are used very sparingly, and I think,
like the best zombie media, it's more about how people
react to a zombie apocalypse, how people, how humans shape
(01:54):
society in the absence of what once existed, And from
what I know about the game, because I have consumed
a little content about the game that the show is
based on, um, the main antagonists of the game are
humans and zombies are more of like a you know,
boogeyman kind of like uh like obstacle more than anything else.
(02:17):
So so I do I do think you're You're right
to note that that, like, the zombies are like kind
of few and far between, and it is much more
about the very human drama of it all in extreme circumstances.
And also just like how terrifying and sad survival is
as a concept when you're like the lat when you
(02:39):
are the last of us, right, and so like that's
what made this third episode so revelatory, which, like kind
of um, departs from the main set of protagonists and
shows the viewers another story that they're entangled with, which
is these two like men who I guess find each other, uh,
Bill and Frank played by Nick Offerman of Parks and
(03:03):
Recreation and Murray Bartlett from season one of The White
Lotus and they Bill, I mean, we've never seen Nick
in a role like this, I don't think, but like
Murray is so good that two of them are so
good together. And it's also a story that could never
have been told before, Like this is a completely original
(03:26):
story that has a ground, like a kind of foundation
in something that is extremely real and present and and
like just of the moment, like I just can't even
put words to it, like what did you think? Well, um,
So to give a little context about the this this story,
(03:47):
so this is actually in the game, UM, but in
the Last of Us part one, the first game, Bill
is a character who the the main care there's meat
on their journey and apparently you it's just kind of
like a throwaway moment where if you like hover over
(04:08):
a certain thing, you see a photo of his partner
who by the by the time the game happens, is
already dead. Um. And the creators of the show did
talk about this in the behind the Episode thing that
plays on HBO once the episode is done, and they
decided to expand that story um too, you know, like
(04:30):
tell Bill and Frank's story, because I think one of
them said something interesting, which is like, in adapting, they
only wanted to change things if they could make them better,
and this certainly does that. Um. I mean, like, I
thought it was very beautiful. I also thought it was
like obviously, like seeing gay love on screen is not radical,
(04:53):
but what felt, um not, what felt exciting about it
to me was that this is a show that's being
watched by you know, like normy straight people who played
this video game who are obsessed with it, and if
they're going to want to watch the show, they're going
to have to sit through watching a gay love story.
And I love that. I think that's I think that's
(05:16):
like transgressive. And I'm sure there's a lot of people
who were pissed about it, but I mean the fact
that they went so far and like they had this
sex scene which was like like like hot but also romantic,
and like beautiful and like touching because it's this older
man who's never had sex with another man. I like
(05:37):
thought was so cool, and I love how Murray Bartlett
immediately clopped him immediately. It was so sexy and fun
and like, as queer people watching this, we're kind of like, way, way, way,
is this happening? Is this happening? And then like for
just like on the line delivery, like the two of
(05:58):
them were just giving something that is totally unexpected, like
from like what the actual script is. And like, honestly,
Murray Bartlett, the way you are able to say, like
go take a shower, Bill, and for that to be
somehow the hottest thing like that, like that could not
be a better way to say, we're gonna fun. You
know what I said, break up that he said. He
(06:20):
was like that meme of the little dog that said,
I know what you are. He said, go go do,
go wash your ass, go wash your pussy, Billy Bartlett,
the man that you are. And I, like I I believe,
like I believed in their attraction to each other. I
also believed that like of course, in this extreme scenario,
(06:43):
Murray Bartlett, like he's been like wandering around the country
like in the Apocalypse, Like of course, I'm sure he's
thinking about like Okay, I'm gonna I'm gonna suck this
guy's brain out for his dick so that I get
to stay in his fortress with this like rabbit that
he's cooking. And I like that part where he said, like, um,
I'm not a whore, like not for lunch, no, like
(07:04):
no matter how good it is, so like if we
do this, I'm gonna stay here for another couple of days.
So there is something transactional about it. But then three
years later, but then it also is still really real.
And what gilled me was the scene with the strawberries
when into the strawberry and little giggle. Oh my god,
I didn't it was so real. That was the best part.
(07:29):
It's like they're actually they're both phenomenal actors. And like
in the conversation of like gay actors and gay gay
actors and gay roles whatever, like something we know I
don't care about. We don't care about I mean we
care about, but like not in the way that other
people care about it, right, Like people have very unnuanced
ideas of like who should play what, and like this
is a perfect example where you have talented actors making
(07:53):
great work. And I think that Murray Bartlett, as a
gay man in this role, bringing a gay sensibility to
the role created a foundation for them both to work on. Right, Like,
this is how you do it. This is how you
stick the landing, and you use like you you see
your vision, and you also are able to bring in
a phenomenal openly gay actor who's really good at what
(08:14):
he does to like make this even more real. Um
also as also as my mutual Nolan Anxious Deluxe said
on Twitter, um nick Offerman is married to Megan Malally,
so he is in a gay marriage and he's he's
part of the community. He is he's part of the community,
and that's so funny. Um. Also, like I never would
(08:38):
have thought about this if I didn't see um the
activist Peter Staley tweet about it. But like I didn't
even register the kind of like metaphor of like a
plague in like the story of two gay men specifically,
Like but like that that the obviously it's not a
ham fisted metaphor slash probably isn't even the intent of
(08:59):
the writers, but like the fact that they're the real
the realism of them choosing death together and how liberated
they both felt in choosing death is so beyond beautiful.
Especially you and I rose like we're morbid bitches, and
like you are a very morbid girl who like might
(09:20):
die in a cabin one day. You know what I
can do today? And I feel like that for for
gay men to have survived a plague and to choose
death on their own terms is nothing short of a
miracle in a zombie plague, let alone in our actual
lived reality. It really does. That was so radical, Yeah,
(09:42):
it really does, Like UM knowingly subvert the barrier gaze
trope while still like having the game by having the
gaze killed themselves. The gays buried themselves. Oh my god,
I will be honest in that the end of their story,
I was not quite as emotional as I had been.
(10:03):
Like for me, the high point of their like vignette
episode was the Strawberries, was was them getting attacked by
the raiders UM, and then the end of it. I like,
I still found it beautiful, but I also thought like
there was so much, almost too much time spent on it,
(10:23):
and it was a little like indulgent, And but I
did I liked when um Murray Bartlett's character said like, um,
you know, I'm not going to pretend that it's not
like objectively romantic that we're dying together, and like that
is it was really beautiful and also I mean it
was just it was funny too, like when Maurray Bartlett's like,
(10:46):
we're going to make friends, and like even in the
Apocalypse the gays are like, we're having brunch. I don't
think it. That is literally, oh my god. He's like,
I've been talking to a nice lady on the radio,
so fucking funny. Um, someone should give some much that,
like give it a show, you know, like, yes, I
met Bill and Frank had a drag night at some point,
(11:07):
you know, like they found a way to like watch
old episodes of drag Race. No, no no, no, honey, honey,
new episodes. You know, Rue is still going through the
zombie Okay, do you do you think? Well, because um,
drag Race like would never would not have happened because
the zombie Apocalypse started in two thousand three, so there's
no drag Race. There's no like Marvel Cinematic Universe. Beyonce
(11:32):
I never had a solo career, Oh my god, wait,
that's so much culture. Wow, that's really depressing to think about. Um.
I love imagining like this doomsday prepper, like trying to
figure out a way to make lube um in the apocalypse.
Um it was. I hope they just use coconut oil, right, Like,
(11:53):
that's like the best if you're in a pinch for
like butt sex. That is specifically, I have not I
have not yet gone to ourchive of our own to
check how much fan fiction has already been written about them,
but I'm sure it's like, well, okay, let's let's see
right now. Yeah, let's check right now, Okay, Bill, Bill
and Frank, there's already Okay, there's twenty six works. Um,
(12:17):
let's we'll we'll check back in next week and see
how many new ones there are. Um, okay, yeah, what else?
I mean? I watched a lot this weekend, I feel, Okay,
tell me, what are you watching? Okay? I don't know
what I was on, but I feel like I was
really playing catch up because I watched poker Face, this
Rihon Johnson show on People, the one with Natasha Leone, Yes,
(12:38):
Natasha Leone, among others, so much fun. I would really
be curious to know if you like it just because
you're a Knives outstand but not a glass onion stand.
And so we have like two different versions of Rion's work.
I'm not a Knives outstand. I enjoyed the movie, but
really I thought you were a true stand. I know,
I really like not stop tweeting about it when it
(12:59):
can amount, But maybe I did not. I don't think
I tweeted about it that much. It was like a
very popular movie that I enjoyed seeing, and that was
kind of it. There is a difference between liking something
and being a stand. Yes, no, you're still right, that's
and and standing. To say you're a stand is slanderous.
It's it's a misnomer and saying that and I am
(13:20):
an offended place. Um. Yeah, I'm interested in watching it
because from what I've heard is that the episodes are
very episodic and and you can kind of like pick
and choose the ones you watch. But what like, give
me your like top view, sell me on it, pitched
me the show. Yeah, So I mean I am a
Natasha Stan, and I will say a crystal clear Stan.
(13:44):
I adore her even if I stand, even though I
don't even like Russian doll that much, but like, I
just love her. Um. The show follows her a casino worker, um,
getting like graveled up in getting rolled up in some controversy. Um.
I guess with the people that owned the casino after
they discover that she has this kind of um superhuman
(14:06):
ability to tell if people are bluffing or not, to
tell if people are are lying or not. And is
it a superpower. It's not. It's not a literal superpower.
She's just kind of like a human detector. Yes, it's
her um Sherlock holmes Ian quality, like right, like every
every SUPERI every Yes, it's kind of like every detective
(14:29):
has a thing. Remember Cam Jansen, she had a photographic memory.
She said, click, you know, Natasha Leo, like you don't
remember that Cam Jansen mystery novels? Oh yes, Phoebe's entering
the chat. Than this is kind of lesbian. I feel
like this is kind of like lesbian canon. Is Cam
Johnson okay? The Secret World of Alex Mack where she
(14:51):
turned into a puddle? No, it was kind of like
Encyclopedia Brown for people that couldn't afford a Encyclopedia Brown maybe,
or like Junia b Jones in but like still some
like mystery component. Um So, anyways, she gets reveled up
in some controversy and it goes on the run for
reasons I won't spoil. And while she's on the run,
(15:11):
she keeps bumping into like a random miss murder mysteries
across the country, and um, it's very absurdest Okay, like
the fact that she keeps like stumbling upon these murders
is totally silly. But when you give your way get
when you give yourself to the kind of reality that
they're in, we're in. She just is constantly stumbling upon
(15:32):
these murders that she wants to solve. Um. I personally
love it, and I think that the acting is fun.
I think the writing is totally slapstick. I think the
jokes are really good and it's not um, each episode
isn't really a who done it? It's more of a
ye done it? Because again very Rihan Johnson, right, they
tell you who did it at the kind of in
(15:53):
like fifteen minutes into each episode and from there Natasha
walks in. It's a very interesting and I think original
to tackle mysteries. So when you do watch it, because
I think you will. Yeah, I'm I'm definitely interested in
checking it out. Um once. I'm currently in the midst
of my annual my Now annual Girls rewatch Alison Williams. Well,
(16:16):
after that, i think I'm gonna try watching Succession because
I've never watched it and I know it's coming back,
and um, I'm gonna I'm gonna give it the old
college try because I keep getting served TikTok's about it
and about the gays that everyone ships together or like
not gays whatever, they are all kind of gay. Speaking
(16:57):
of TV shows that I watch and you don't on
the flip side, Um, so, I watched this Now series
finale of gossip Girl last week and I just wanted
to do you care if I like spoil how it
ended because you still watching? Right? No? No, no spoilers.
I'm just curious, like, did the show and you don't
(17:19):
want spoilers? No idea? No? No, sorry, sorry, sorry, I
don't care about spoilers. I'm just mostly curious about was
the show aware that it was getting canceled or was
it a total clip? Yeah? So, um Joshua Saffron, who
was the show runner, who was a writer on the
original series, has said that he they originally intended for
the episode to be like an hour and twenty minutes,
(17:41):
and the last twenty minutes of it, which I'll take
place in Rome, really set up a lot of things
for the following season and introduced a new character, and
once he kind of saw the writing on the wall,
he went in and edited all that stuff out so
that it was more of a closed loop at the end.
So there character still is introduced, and you see a
(18:03):
couple of things that we're probably parts of that story,
but for the most part, there's on a ton of
actual cliffhangers. There are definitely things that aren't resolved. But
the big resolution is that Tavvy comes out as gossip
Girl because Um the kids all decide that they want
to take down gossip Girl, and they think that the
(18:25):
way to do that is by trying to like steal
her thunder So at the met Gala um Zoya, who's
the young character, she wears a dress that says I
am gossip Girl, and then they leak a story that
Ryan Murphy is trying to buy the rights to for
a gossip Girl TV show about Shanda Rhymes or something,
(18:45):
and tavvy Um is like, uh, they're not taking my
TV deal and shows up at Monetta tavern Um where
I coincidentally had dinner with Hunter Harris who writes on
the show last weekend, and Tavvy shows up and it's
like there's like, um, Mr Murphy, it's to me, I'm
Gossip Girl. Um wait is Ryan Murphy in it? No,
(19:09):
because because then everyone, like all of the teens are like,
oh my god, it was you because it was a setup.
And the cops come slap some handcuffs on her clink clink, bitch,
you're going to prison because she has all of this
like kind of teeny porn on her phone because she
was like cyberbullying kids and like like sexually harassed, cyber harassing,
(19:30):
cyber sexual passing children. So so what Joshua Safron has
said in some interviews is that they they kind of
always knew that the teachers would not be Gossip Girl
anymore post season two. Um, so they still would have
been part of the show going forward, but in in
like kind of diminished capacity. And there's a post credit
(19:53):
scene at the end of the finale in which one
of the teens, dad who like runs a media company,
approaches one of the teachers about turning Gossip Girl into
an app So that is probably what would have happened
in the third season. Um, and you know it was.
I'm sad it's it's gone. I really liked the reboot,
(20:16):
even though it was definitely flawed. Um And I think
what they were setting up was really interesting. I liked
some of the actors. UM. I thought that the guy
who played the slutty pan sexual Max was like really good.
He had a very emotional moment in the finale. I
(20:37):
really appreciated that. In the back half of this second season,
they started giving um Luna, who is played by Zion
whose name I can't remember, the transactress. They actually gave
her a storyline. She was great. She had like a
whole like thing with her mother being like, um faking
(21:00):
being Latin X. It was very like Hilaria Baldwin vibes.
So you know, rip Gossip Girl. Um, you will be
missed by like twenty people probably, and um, it's definitely
you know, they're still like hold like kind of holding
out hope that the show might be saved, but even
(21:20):
Joshua Saffern has said it's the show is too expensive
to exist. Anywhere else. Oh, it's expensive. It's like it's
the fashion, Like it's expensive in terms of production, the
way it looks, the clothes, everything. And he's just said
if they had to cut the budget, it just wouldn't
(21:43):
be the same show. And he doesn't want to make
a cheaper version of it. Damn. I honestly, I felt
like the reboot was totally earned, like I was ready
for it. It just like it wasn't. I don't think
it was for me. But r I P. I'm so
sorry for your loss. Another one, another one. I'm gonna
be fine. I'll be okay. Now I have to pivot
(22:03):
to shows that like won't get canceled. Oh, so you're
gonna you're finally gonna watch a Fleishman in Trouble or whatever? No,
are you watching Fleishman in Trouble? I watched the first
two and a half episodes of Fleishman in Trouble because
so many people told me to watch By so many people?
Do you mean Justin told you to watch it? Because
Join and I have talked about it, and I did
(22:25):
not understand why he was watching it. I told him
it looks like the most heterosexual thing possible, and that
I feel like it's the kind of show that gay
people like when they turn on their TV screens all
that they see a static Yeah, like yeah, gay people
like actually physically cannot see it. That's kind of how
I felt. I'm I guess it's a mini series that's
(22:46):
maybe based on a book question Mark. It kind of
feels like it's in the normal people genre of TV,
or like maybe um Elena Ferranti novel genre like Elena
Ferrante like adaptations, where it's like beautiful, slow stories about
human heterosexual relationships, and like you know, and I, um,
(23:06):
I just I felt I feel duped because like in
the key r of the show, like Claire Danes and
Lizzie Kaplan are the only characters shown and present, And
and then you click on the first episode and you're like,
this is a story about how Jesse Eisenberg fucked his
way across New York. And you're like, what, Yeah, that's
literally Eisenberg doesn't fuck. Yes, that's what I'm saying. And
(23:30):
I had to watch Jesse Eisenberg suck so many women
in like like a few minutes, and I was like,
where is Lizzie? Where is Claire? Yes, I I just
I didn't understand. And the writing, Okay, I will, I
will admit the writing is like really great, Like, but
I it's just about subject matter that does not concern me, right,
Like I don't watch things about men on principle most
(23:53):
of the time, you know. And I felt like I
came out of this being like why did I who
told me that this was gonna be a good show?
It was Justin? Because Justin has tested me several times
after that initial conversation to tell me that he was
still watching In Trouble. Oh my god, I don't. I
(24:13):
don't get it. I I really don't, and I am
I want I want these hours of my life back. Um,
But so virgins don't watch Fleishman's In Trouble. I couldn't
even bring it. I couldn't even bring myself to like
hate watch it at that point because like it was
like actually kind of good TV. It was just like
subject matter that I hated and didn't want to watch.
(24:34):
And okay, well this this is interesting. Do you often
hate watch things? Oh all the time, baby, all the time.
I I constantly if everyone's talking about it, I need
to watch it, right, Like that's why we are different. Women. Look, Yeah,
(24:55):
it's true. Okay, wait, this is actually very prevalent because
I watched Real House Friends of West Hollywood or whatever,
the real gay the Real Gay Friends of West Hollywood. Um,
and so I was thinking a lot that this has
proved that that nymphle Wars is right about literally everything,
and they everything in the culture. They are oracles of culture. Um. Okay, wait,
(25:18):
I have some thoughts about the wee host stuff, but
like real quick, like, what's what is your philosophy on
hate watching slash? You're saying you don't really do it? Yeah,
I'm I don't watch things that I don't enjoy, and
I don't understand why anyone would, well, because I think
criticizing things is fun, and I think I personally find
(25:38):
a lot of like I I feel satiated by watching
something that other people like and then identifying why it's
not good. I could that I could not could not
be me and not be me. I understand, I understand,
and but that that I will also stipulate is like
(25:59):
a be true of like gay ship right, like gay
and transship like ship that like is trying to be
representative quote unquote of our community, which is like a
fallacy and like nobody should represent anyone like that if
we've like learned anything at this point so far. Like
the show Real house I don't even know what it's
(26:21):
sucking called because it's the Real Friends of we Ho,
it's such a it's such a word salad, like it
needs another syllable in order to mirror Real Housewives of Mamma,
you know what I mean. Like, it's it's just not
it's difficult, nobody can remember what it's called. Um, but
it's also just obviously really bad. It's the thing is,
(26:43):
it's not even that it's terrible. It is just boring,
which is the worst thing it could possibly be. Because
I did, I did try. We'll not try. But I
had friends come over last week to watch drag Race,
and like, of course we started watching it when it
came on afterwards, of course, and it wasn't even that
we were like boo throwing tomatoes at the screen. We
(27:06):
just mind numbing it was. It was just boring and
we started talking and eventually, like without even realizing it,
turned it off. The same thing. Um, I was at
Ryan's this past weekend. It came on after drag Race,
and he was like, on the phone or something, and
so I watched the first couple of minutes of it
and just zoned out and was on my phone because
it's boring. I agree, and I do think that boring
(27:30):
is the thing we should be saying because to your point, Rose,
and this is kind of why I want to talk
about like hate watching. It's like we're actually giving this
way too much energy, right, like something like the real
whatevers of West Hollywood is like not even worth the
hate watch, And like, yeah, I'm similar to you. After
(27:50):
Drag Race, I watched it with a bunch of friends.
We were like, let's watch and make fun of it.
And while we were watching it, and I was giggling
actually because it is incredibly stupid. But like while we
were watching, I was like, my god, I wonder how
many people are hate watching it right now, because no
one in this room is enjoying the show. And is
it Like I was like, is it going to get
great ratings because it's so it's such a hate watch
(28:12):
and it's not because it actually is just boring. But
like I think, just to the effect of what you're saying,
like this like bizarre kind of like weird hyper attention
to the show and like what it means for the culture,
and like all the memes it's generating, and all this
stuff just like is really smelly, Like it doesn't mean
(28:33):
anything to the culture. It's so it's so like bland
and inoffensive and just it's like a nothing burgers. It's
a nothing burger. It's it's not interesting. And I feel
like that all the things that people are placing on
top of it, all the critique, right this Vulture article,
which like people were sharing on Twitter, like it's actually
(28:53):
just like the show isn't even that bad. It's really
actually just like what I'm smelling is just internalized homophobia,
which is nothing new, but like we shouldn't be saying,
you know, uh, these people are horrible and not even
fucking famous and they're not even real friends and they're
bad representation or whatever. It's like you could Real Housewives. Yes,
that's what I was gonna say. We don't need any
(29:15):
of that from the Real Housewives, like, but just need
them to be interesting and exciting and fun to watch exactly.
The Real Housewives are funny, magnanimous, irreplicable, Like well, Good
Housewives is funny, magnanimous, irreplicable, messy, controversial and like none
of these men are any of them? Well, I think no,
(29:36):
Brad Driski is great. Tadrick Hall is like no gen
Shaw level of unwatchable, Like I mean, you don't watch
salt Lake. But like Tadrick is the reason why this
show is like brows in itself right, and bros Is
now a verb thanks to Billy Eichner, because like, what
the argument to any degree when we say, like queer
(29:57):
people need to support this and if you don't support this,
then you don't support for media, It's just like such
it anti intellectual. Take that as like Ti Mitchell pointed
out on this podcast and tweeted about later, like so
many queer representation quote unquote arguments are really just this
thinly veiled way to say, like I'm not personally famous,
(30:18):
but I should be, you know what I mean? Like
that is actually like what we were watching Tadrick do
online when he was writing all these like handwritten letters
which were certainly handwritten by unpaid interns because there's like
five different fonts on them. Yeah, it's kind of wild
that like his that Tadrick's handwriting is like I think
(30:39):
it is his handwriting because like it's he still has
the handwriting of like a high school senior. Like it's
like it's like bubble letters, like bubbles were like that,
like you know the f the like swords that used
to draw in your notebooks from the middle school. Hearts
on the eyes like curls empty font like I've aid
(31:00):
every dancer I've promised payment to curls mt. Fine, Well,
all that means that he did people or he let
them think they were going to get paid, and then
it turned out that he had never intended to. Yeah, anyways, Um,
it's all of this is coming back to say in
(31:21):
the breath of what I felt was worth hate watching.
And what I want to say about this show is
that we don't need to like patently reject it because
it's like bad gay representation. We can patently reject it
because it's category bad and boring and contrived and like, also,
we just like want to watch women, Like let's just
say that, like we like we want to watch women
(31:43):
on TV. Like gay men don't want to watch each
other on TV. And I think it's because you know,
a lot of them hate themselves and that's like fine,
but they should work that out, like without having to
write a Vulture article. You know what I mean. Yeah,
the idea of reading a Vulture art cool about real
friends of who just gives me hives. It literally reminded
(32:05):
me of when the Fire Island TV show came out
and that one faggot for like huff Post Gay Voices
r I p Um wrote something that was like that
wrote something that was about like Fire Island is like
representative of gay America's moral decline, and I was like, girl,
I'm sorry to a dick, yes like suck nick Offerman,
(32:28):
smelly post apocalyptic dick. And I'm sorry to make this
joke again, but I have to say again that if
you are a queer person who's saying that we as
queer people need to writ large like support all queer media,
then you have so many Adam Lambert albums to listen to,
like I'm sorry, Like you have a back catalog of
(32:50):
you know, Randy Rainbow YouTube videos. But that one thing
(33:12):
I would never hate watch is anything starring Sarah Michelle
Gellar because I love her and she's never made a
bad film or TV show in her life. I love
the way you choked on that. Well, that's because she's
never made up that that's because I'm trying to swallow
this dried this dried mango I'm eating, I'm sure. But
(33:33):
today we will be discussing one of her greatest contributions
to culture, um Cruel Intentions, which I have watched recently.
So true, True to the True, to the virgins here
to represent. So the first time I ever saw Cruel Intentions,
I rented it from Blockbuster and watched it with my dad,
(34:00):
and I was it was came out, so it would
have been like on home video in two thousand maybe,
so I was twelve, and the last thing I wanted
to be doing while watching this movie was sitting next
to my dad. It's a very strange movie to watch
(34:21):
with your parents, especially parent to you like, I have
nothing in common within I could never don't know how
to talk to. But your parents were not the like
throw their hands in front of your eyes kind of parents. Well,
my mom did used to tell me to cover my
eyes during the sex scenes and then you wouldn't insects
in the city and I would cover them and then
(34:42):
kind of thing through. Yeah, yeah, my parents, yes, truly,
anytime we would want what's like a movie, they made
me close my eyes honestly, any any Mission Impossible movie.
I have a visceral memory of the violence. You know,
the sex scenes. There's always a sex scene in every
Mission Impossible movie. And my parents I should be like no,
and I'd be like, I want to see Tom cruises dick,
(35:04):
So I want to suck Tom Cruise's dick. He looks
the same, he's he's a vampire, like an ageless vampire. No,
but he has recently he looks like he's aged a
little bit. But it's been good for him. Yeah, it's
been hot. I I want you know seasoned men. Also
(35:25):
loved him when he was a twink, and I loved
him when he had bad teeth before he got those
you told me before he got those top and Bottom veneers, Mama, Okay,
I I loved him bad teeth. But like I honestly
had not thought because I famously did not see top
Gun and I have not seen Tom Cruise in any
recent movie. But I also I was able to clue
(35:46):
into the fact that Tom Cruise is hot now after
he did the Bloody Mary Dance. Child, he did, you
should watch it. He did the Bloody Mary Dance. He
loves Gaga. After after loves Gaga and he did it
to support her at like and did it like outside
his mansion or whatever, and he's he looks hot. Like
(36:08):
what if they walk the red carpet together at the Oscars?
Oh my god, you know that, you know that I
want them to be together. I think that would be
an award. I bet that would That would be the
ultimate celebrity couple. To me, Tom Cruise of a person
who like it's not even about if he's gay or not.
It's just he's such a freak. His sexuality doesn't matter
(36:31):
him being in a couple with Lady Gaga also a
freak in in just like an opposite but parallel way.
Oh my god, Oh my god, I want that so badly.
It is an opposite of a parallel way. And they
both are highly susceptible to cults. They're they're both um,
(36:51):
they're both really good at the performance of celebrity right,
like they both understand what being a celebrity is and
like how to live and breathe at And I also
think that Gaga has this like truly like biological like
biological like impulse to like fall in love with every
co star she's ever as so so like so like
(37:14):
because she's like Standislavski or whatever, she just like can't
help but like fall in love with like Bradley Cooper
and then like Tom Cruise, even though Tom Cruise is
not a co star, but like, you know, structurally, but
if she had the closest thing she had, if Tom
Cruise had been the star the co star of a
star is born, they would they would be in a relationship,
There's no question of mine. I mean her and Bradley
(37:36):
Cooper would be in a relationship if Bradley Cooper wasn't
gay but allegedly allegedly, allegedly alleged allegedly. Um yeah, but
I can't wait for her to fall in love with
Joaquim Phoenix. I mean it's probably already happened. It's happening
right now. It's happening literally. I mean, she's not doing
any press right now because she's so immersed in that movie.
Is going to absolutely destroy me. Oh my god, I'm
(38:00):
of coffee. Look at all my had such a beautiful
lip color on, and now it's like now it's on
your now it's all on my coffee. That's why you
got to use a straw, babe, I gotta use a straw. Yeah,
better for your teeth too. UM well, I forgot that
we're here to talk about cruel intentions. We are here
to talk about cruel intentions. UM the UM teen psycho
(38:20):
sexual thriller, which is not um, a phrase you hear often. UM.
It is a reimagining of uh Pierre code Leo still
Laclos's seventeen eighty two novel Les Liaison's Don Jerroses or
(38:40):
Dangerous Liaisons as it has also been known, But it
takes that story and updates it to the elite teen
prep school scene in New York City in the late nineties,
sort of like an early gossip Girl. And I'm sure
it had a lot of influence on gossip Girl, which
we were talking about earlier. UM It's stars Um Sarah
(39:04):
Michelle Gellar as UM, Catherine who Katherine Murty who is
you know the Queen be the Blair Waldorf if you
will of her you know, elite um prep scene, and
then her stepbrother, Sebastian Valmont played by Ryan Philippe. They
have this sort of game they play where they seduce
(39:27):
people and destroy them for their own ships and giggles.
They also Ryan PHILIPPI really wants to fuck Sarah Michelle Geller,
his stepsister, and she issues him this challenge that if
he fux this um new girl played by Reese Witherspoon
(39:47):
um and destroys her, that if if he can get
her to fall in love with him, because you know
she would never fall for a bad boy, um, that
SMG will finally fuck him in. That's sort of pseudo
incest scenario. And as she tells him, you can put
it anywhere, which I guess me, and he wants to
(40:10):
suck her in the ass. Sarah, I don't know if
everyone came in with the intention to like make this
actually like funny, but like Sarah Michelle Geller makes this
movie so funny, so being yes, it is also still
sexy dangerous, like you know, gripping. I feel, Um, I
(40:31):
don't know if this is like I'm trying to think
about the source material s Stangroue or whatever, and I
the virgins. Maybe you said that the virgin sound like
the shot from from the Little Mermaid. Oh my god, wait,
(40:52):
I can't wait for the live action version of that character.
Who's going to play that? Friends? They probably cut it? No,
Timmy Timoth a Shaley would have even that, oh my god,
I would have spoken French, oh my god. But then anyways, okay,
side track, side track, Um, I think that dangerous. This
lion Standrew is like spoofed in Arrest Development, where they're
(41:17):
like Michael, Sarah's character watches a movie called The Lick Cousin,
the Cousins DANGERU or these like cousins fuck or whatever,
and it gives it plants the seed of an idea
where he's like wants to funck his like step step
cousin or whatever. Um, are they I can't remember? Are
they cousins, cousins in cruel intentions? Are they step cousins? No? No,
they're stepbrother and step sister, step brother and step sister, right,
(41:42):
so they're not biologically related that they're not. No, it's
totally It's totally fine. It's totally totally fine. It is camp.
I mean some of Sarah's line deliveries in this, like
I mean when she says you can put it anywhere,
when she says, I'm the Marcia fucking Brady of the
Upper east Side and some times I want to kill myself.
(42:02):
She has a she has a hollowed out cross necklace
filled with cocaine that has a tidy spoon for her
to do cocaine with this movie? Was I really wish
that I had had this movie as a part of,
you know, the small group of films that like opened
up my secular awakening as we call it, along with
(42:24):
a Mulan rouge rent Um, if your mom, if you
had watch this with your mom and she'd the cross
that she would ross, she would you would have had
to go through an exorcism. Yes, she would have expelled. Um. Yeah,
you would have shoot. There would have been a demon
inside you and she would have gotten it out. But
I I know, truly I I would have been I
(42:46):
would have I would have grown up so much faster. Um.
But I say that honestly because I feel like, and
I don't even think I'm exaggerating when I say this,
I do feel like Ryan Philippe is like ass was
a pivotal moment in a lot of you know, people
of Fagga experience. You know what I mean. Well, the
combination of his ass while love fool by the Cardigans
(43:09):
is playing Oh my God, I forgot that really, like
was a gay awakening for so many people on so
many levels. Wait, I forgot that love fool is playing?
Are you serious? And it gets cut off very abruptly,
this mute. This movie has a banging soundtrack, bittersweet symphony
by the Verve. They put their whole pussy into that.
(43:32):
Also the opening song Every Me and Every You, which
is by Placebo. I believe Placebo, I don't know, I
I honestly. Roger Cumbell, the guy that directed this, also
did the sweetest thing. I love thee the best sort
(43:52):
of like not like one of the best, like kind
of um off the beaten track, like not early tooth
thousands comedies that like it's kind of a if you know,
you know, absurdist, totally stupid, like totally intentionally stupid. Also
starring Selma Blair, who in that movie is kind of
(44:14):
the I'm not gonna say slut of the group. But
there is a scene in which a guy's dick is
literally stuck in her mouth right because of the piercing
Oh my god, that is such a funny scene. I mean,
Cameron is also such a slot in that movie, and
I think it's very liberating. Like she also she's a
whole song about like how big the penises, how big.
(44:34):
She how she loves big penises or whatever, and it's
not even a musical, but then she like breaks out
into song. It's kind of brilliant. It's a very strange movie. Um,
but this was a strange time for movies, the late
nineties early two thousands, and Cruel Intentions is certainly a
product of that. I mean, it also came at um
(44:55):
an interesting time in Sarah Michelle Geller's career because she
was and she would have been two years into doing Buffy,
so this was one of her like sort of infrequent
side projects. So at this time, um, Buffy was already
like a huge hit. Like like now we think of
(45:16):
Buffy is the show that has this like cult following,
but at the time it was hugely successful. It was
Sarah Michelle Geller was everywhere, and I do think that
a lot of this movie rides on her star power.
And Ryan Philippie and Reese Witherspoon, Honestly, at this time
(45:37):
we're still relative unknowns um. They also this was the
film that they met on and um, they later got married,
so it did bring them together. Wow, I didn't know that. Okay, wait,
so wait, Reese Witherspoon was unknown when this movie came out,
I had not unknown, but she wasn't like super famous.
(45:57):
I think, I want to say Election also came out.
I do feel like this was the year that Reese
broke and UM. Yeah, and I'm sure that um cruel intentions,
what was what really brought her to the attention of
young people. And then Legally Blonde came out in two
(46:21):
thousand and one, so that is really what solidified her fame.
UM and I think this was probably like the first
building block of that got it okay, okay, And I
am you know, and I'm not an SMG scholar, so
I appreciate the context because she really is, to me,
like the anchor of this movie. Like it's it is
(46:44):
like an ensemble cast. Um that feels like in the
kind of closer genre of like you know, psycho sexual
thrillers and absolutely closer closer for teens. Yes, well teens
that are played by twenty six year olds, right, like,
but Sara Michelle Gellar, you know, she is like Buffy
(47:06):
is such a you know, she's a strong female character.
She's a heroine. She's a good girl, but she's also
very sassy. But we hadn't really seen smg play a
bad girl since well, she was on a soap opera
before she was on Buffy, and I'm sure she was
like an evil twin or something, because you know that's
how soap operas go. Um, so she got to, you know,
(47:28):
dip her toe into playing the bad girl, and I
think she fucking slays it. She played the bad girl
every time, like she's so so fucking good on Buffy.
She only got the chance to do that in There's
there's a couple episodes and well there's one episode in
season four where Buffy and Faith swap bodies. Faith is
(47:49):
another vampire slayer who's who's evil and she and Buffy
swap bodies. So Buffy gets to be a bad girl
for an episode. But um, you know, Catherine is really
the the evilist Sarah has ever played, except she was
in this TV show called The Ringer where she played
identical twins and one of them was bad. Maybe okay,
(48:12):
So sa Michelle Geller is on a press tour right
now for this new Paramount show I believe called wolf Pack,
which is a spinoff of Teen Wolf, and I saw
an interview in which she said that she thinks that
Katherine from Cruel Intentions grown Up would basically just be
(48:32):
her character from Due Revenge. But I also think that
Catherine from Cruel Intentions grown Up would be would be
um Sonja Morgan or like or just would would be
a real housewife on a New York City housewife. I mean, honestly,
(48:52):
you know who else should be a New York City housewife?
Is Christine Branski? Please? Maybe maybe lou Anne is Catherine
grown up Luanna? I would love to see Lunn act.
She's probably so bad. You mentioned Christine Bransky. There's something
(49:24):
there as some iconic I don't like some people who
have like just a few scenes in this film. Christine
Bransky is one of them. Also, tera Read in the
opening scene, um because Sebastia, she's one of Sebastian's conquests
and he's leaked all these nudes of her online in
a sort of like revenge porn scenario, and tera Read
(49:47):
has the iconic line, there's naked pictures of me on
the internet, which relatable honestly, an oracle, she she was
predicting what would be common and evident like problem in
the culture of nudes leaking online. And now you know,
soon we're going to be electing people to office that
have leaked nudes. That's that's my dream, honestly. UM, do
(50:09):
you okay, So when you first watched this movie was
it do you remember just like latching onto it immediately?
Because SMG? Did you was it a rewatch for you?
Did you like watch it every day after school or
I had the vhs then the DVD. I would watch
them all the time. I would quote the movie all
the time. I wanted to be Sarah Michelle Geller in
(50:32):
this movie. I knew immediately that I was not a
Reese Witherspoon. I was not a good girl. I was
a bad girl. No, no, no. And Reese honestly cloy
is cloying Lee sweet. She almost does what she does best,
which is like to be good to an exhaustive degree.
Like she is so pure that it's like annoying. Um.
I was watching this movie with my friend. I was
(50:53):
watching Cool Intentions with my friend for the first time,
and we were marking on. There's this scene where Reese
is like in a car with like that with I
think Ryan Philippe, as they're like flipping and trying to yes, yes, yes,
and she like starts to make she like makes the
demon face. She's so she's so bad at making a
goofy face. Like I actually like, if I was a
(51:15):
director and I was watching, I was like, Reese, like,
you you need to do something else, Like, oh no,
I think that's you know, but I do. I just
don't think she knows how to make a face that
is like goofy and evil at the same time. Like
I just like, I was like, clearly, it's like not
(51:36):
in your nature to do this reeson with her spoon.
I thought it was like endearing almost I'm not trying
to be condescending except you, but it might not be
what you're trying to do, but it's what you're doing.
But it's what you're doing. Um oh some of okay,
Phoebe just clude us into some of Blair and legally blonde. Yes, well,
(51:56):
I mean some of Blair was definitely an it girl
at the time that this movie came out and remained
one for years. Um. She also she and Sarah Michelle
Geller are lifelong friends. Um. Sarah has supported her a
lot recently because elma UM a couple of years ago,
uh you know, revealed that she has been dealing with
(52:18):
a chronic illness. I believe ms UM she was on
I think the most recent season of Dancing with the Stars,
although they do like four of them a year, so
there could have been like two more seasons since she
was on it. Um she was. I don't think she
was on the same season as Jojo Siwa, but I
think she was on the same season as Smith Jared
(52:39):
from Sex in the City Smith Jared, Oh my god,
the one he was my favorite. Sex in the City boo. Unfortunately,
this movie has an iconic same sex kiss between Sarah
Michelle Gellar and Selma Blair, in which Sarah Michelle Geller is,
you know, saying that girls just on each other all
(53:01):
the time, and they have this very hot kiss. That
was I think probably the thing that people remember most
from this movie because it was in a pre meme world.
It was a meme like it was replicated in movies.
I think there's I think in one of the Scary
movie films they spoof it um Sa Michelle Gellar and
(53:22):
some of Blair one best kiss with the MTV Movie Awards,
I think, and maybe even like kissed on stage. Um
It's I think it's a good kiss. I it reminds me,
is there like a little spit dribble, there is a
little they are, Yes, it's hot. We have talked about
spit kink's recently on our Disobedience episode. Yeah, I will
(53:47):
say like when I watched it, I felt like it
was it definitely was hot. It definitely did to me
feel like exactly in this era of culture when like
straight women kissing was this like sexual kind of phenomenon
that like got boys really rowdy. Like we were kind
of talking about this in our Jennifer's Body episode, but
(54:09):
like do you remember do you remember like when you
would go to like Walmart or Target whatever to like
buy movie posters or like just like posters for your
room and I would I would buy them a hot topic, yes,
hot topic as well. But one of those posters was
always those two girls and like gray like underwear or whatever,
(54:31):
like kissing on a bed. Do you remember this image?
Like oh my god? But but anyways, all I'm trying
to say is like it was just like this very
bizarre era of culture that like talked about lesbians and
erased lesbians at the same time. It was it was
it was it was lesbian is um from the male gaze,
(54:52):
which you know, lesbians only existed in popular culture to
titillate straight man, Yeah exactly. But but this I felt
like was something that we could still embrace. Like it
was queer, Like it was like totally like this, this
I think to me, this movie, and like what it
(55:14):
did best was like revel in hedonism, right, Like it
was like this, what is the maximum bad? You can
be like, well, well, revel in, revel in it, but
still but cast it as evil because what we because
the journey of this movie is that Sebastian starts out
as a hedonist, falls in love, and then rejects hedonism
(55:37):
and is punished for his hedonistic lifestyle because he spoiler
alert dies at the end and Catherine, who sort of
drove him to this, gets her come up and when
all of Sebastian's diaries are our oh yeah, like uh
disseminated throughout the school and so bizarre. It is a
(56:00):
movie that but that celebrates hedonism but then takes this
very puritanical view of it. And you know, the only
love that is celebrated and upheld is you know, straight
monogamous romantic love and and and what more could we
possibly wish for than straight monogamous romantic love. And that's
(56:23):
what that's the reason I'm on tender Babe. Yeah, I mean,
I know, like heterosexually. I know, I'm aware that, like
as you adjust your legs, I'm aware that like heterosexuality
is like slowly but surely becoming like illegal in this country,
like with hope, like it will be like a criminal offense, um,
one day, but lock them up. For now, I will
(56:45):
be practicing heterosexuality to the fullest extent that I can. Um. Interesting, Yeah,
I love being heterosexual. Um. Oh, you know what it's not.
It's not scary movie that parodies the this It's not
another teen movie? Which did you ever watch that? No?
(57:06):
Was it? It seemed like I always like was horny
whenever I saw it in Blockbuster it made me horney.
So not another teen movie? Is there was? After the
successive scary movie, there was a string of these sort
of spoof films for different genres. The first of them,
and I think most successful, was not another teen movie,
(57:27):
which was Chris Evans's breakout role. Right. He plays the
like Jock you know, main character who is like half
Freddie Prince Jr. And she's all that and half Ryan
Phillippi and cruel intentions. He has like a similar thing
(57:47):
with his stepsister where he wants to suck her. Um
and um, there is a scene of the lesbian kiss
and they like go really in on the spit thing
and it's like to a gross level that actually sounds
really funny. Um, I kind of want to watch that now. Um.
(58:09):
It's but it's a good movie. I used to watch
it a lot. I had it on DVD, and I
used to watch it a lot, and it was I
had a teen crush on Chris Evans because of it. Well,
I think the teen genre in general, like in the
vein of cruel intentions or whatever else you want to
pull into it, Like I think it's like endlessly entertaining
to revisit. Like I watched a lot of Riverdale, Like
(58:30):
I've watched four seasons, like four full seasons of Riverdale, right,
like I've I think teen ship and the exaggeration of
like how bad teen lives can be. Like by bad,
I mean like how um daring controversial, Irreverend you can
be like in this kind of like hot topic air
(58:51):
of culture is like so funny to look at now,
Like I've actually never seen the movie, um, thirteen, but
that's kind of in this genre and you have to
watch thirteen. Oh my god, No, you're not allowed to
say that because you don't understand the context. I've seen
the scene on YouTube and I feel, but you need
(59:12):
to watch the whole movie. Thirteen is so incredible. It
inspired me to huff as a teenager. It's inspired NA,
you need like barbitual barbituates or whatever, like you wanted
to like like Judy like and like um like whipp
(59:33):
it's with um whipped cream cans with it, you know. Today,
Like I know, we were just talking about Gossip Girl
and how I liked the reboot. But for the most part,
I can't watch media about teenagers. We have discussed this
at length. It's the reason why I don't want euphoria. Um.
But you know, like things like Euphoria and gossip Girl
(59:54):
truly would not exist without cruel intentions. It is the blueprint,
I think, so yeah, or maybe also I actually have
never seen like Dawson's Creek, but like, are any of
those shows like Dawson's Creek O C Like is that
era of TV? Also this kind of like teens being
like murderous drug dealers or whatever, like no, no, Dawson's Creek.
(01:00:16):
I didn't watch Dawson's Creek, but I believe Dawson's Creek
is much more um, it doesn't reach that level. It's
much more like interpersonal drama, like family drama. UM. And
I also didn't watch The o C. But I know
the O C is like not quite at that level.
I think Gossip Girl is kind of where we started
(01:00:39):
seeing um, where we got the most of teens behaving
like adults and specifics specifically because of their access to
our proximity to wealth. M Oh okay, yeah, wait, how
does wealth kind of exist in cruel intentions? I guess
(01:01:02):
just well, they're all they're all very wealthy, you know.
They they have unlimited resources and no parental supervision, so
they are Yeah, it's the no parental surround, that's the
big thing. It's like, the richer you are, the less
parent involvement you have in your day to day. That
was the one difference on Gossip Girls that their parents
(01:01:25):
were someone in the original Gossip Girl is that their
parents were someone involved and the parents were actual characters
on the show who had their own romantic dramas and
like their own plot lines. But you know, for the
most part, the kids did act like adults. They were
like going clubbing and like having these like making these
(01:01:47):
like grand schemes that were obviously like in a way
fueled by being teenagers, being dumb teenagers with like raging hormones.
But because they had unlimited resources, they could you know,
can cause to these like elaborate schemes and behave like
you know, um eighteenth century aristocrats having you know, like
(01:02:07):
um intrigues. Yeah, honestly, I mean like it was I
think that like experiencing even though I didn't see cruel
intentions as a kid, Like when this like genre of
kind of like TV films whatever was like coming through,
I feel like I could attach. I feel like it
was so aspirational to me. This is like really dark.
(01:02:28):
But like I, you know, was a very unhappy kid.
I did not enjoy my childhood, and a lot of
that had to do with my parents. And so these
lives without parents, which I think are are present and
a lot of like teena and kid you know, like
things like I, you know, I wanted that so bad.
I wanted a life without parental supervision. I wanted a
(01:02:51):
life for my own, and they would give us this
fantasy where in kids were like teens were fully capable
of doing it. We're in reality, it's like teens actually
do still behave like children, like none of them actually
act like this, and so you know, it was a fantasy,
but I loved that ship. Oh you know, what we
do have to talk about is the gay stuff and
cruel intentions. Joshua Jackson of Dawson's Creek Fame plays Sebastian's
(01:03:19):
gay friend who helps him in trap Betty's boss from
Ugly Betty Daniel into being outed as gay. So that
so that so that Ryan Phillippe can use him to
like get get into Reese Witherspoon's good graces. Oh my god,
(01:03:42):
I forgot that Daniel meat. Is this dick and cock
sucking dick and cock? Absolutely? Um yeah, I mean gay blackmail,
bring it back. Seriously, we're about we're to like cancel culture,
like like representation matters to have that kind of fashion blackmail.
(01:04:05):
We do Fran blackmail and would blackmail you any day.
Oh my god, thank you. I would love to blackmail you.
I would love to out you as trans I mean
thank you. I think we how we have both emotionally
blackmailed each other somewhat successfully. You know that can't be true.
It's true, And you know what, I think that's beautiful.
(01:04:30):
I think and I think that's beautiful. Um wow. I mean,
like I honestly like I'm I felt like when I
watched this movie, I was like watching it through your eyes?
Can I say that? Like, because we got my eyes
they're gone. The virgins at home can't see, but the
roses eyes are now gushing blood. They're now gone. And
(01:04:51):
I'm like the Corinthian from Sandman. I just have little teeth.
You're giving pans labyrinthy, your eyes are on your hands.
Um No. I was just gonna say, like, because we've
been doing the show for a while and because you know,
I'm the version so to speak, when I like in
these you know, in our in the episodes that we've
released so far, Like you know, I'm not always the virgin.
(01:05:12):
We like to just talk about what we like to
talk about. But when I am the virgin, I feel,
you know, I'm always just like, oh, I wonder what, like,
like I wonder how Rose would think about this scene?
You feel I feel close to you anytime I can
see something like this. This very this is a kind
of Rose movie to me movie, this movie was incredibly
(01:05:32):
formative to my personality. I wanted to be Catherine. I
wanted to be an evil, manipulative bitch who would funk
her step brother, blackmail people, destroy their crucifix, and snort
cocaine out of my holida out crucifix. Please let in
(01:06:00):
to our d m s at like a virgin tell us,
do you want to suck your stepbrother? Um? Have you ever?
Have you ever blackmailed someone for being gay? And what
is your favorite? Um? Sarah Michelle Geller Media Property. Wait wait, wait,
I actually would love to know the answer to those
first two questions of any other virgins. Share we're at
(01:06:21):
We're being fully serious and we will um. We won't
let your messages after you send them, but we won't
use them against you. We won't. Next week we will
be back with a discussion on Dolly parton the woman,
the myth, the legend. Um. So uh you know join
us for that yehaw. You can um connect with us
(01:06:43):
on Instagram like a virgin. UM. My handles at Rose Damn.
You can follow me anywhere online there and I'm Fran toato.
You can find me at friends Squish to go anywhere
you like. Like a virgin ism I radio production. Our
producers Phoebe Unter, with support from Lindsay Hoffman and Nikki Etre.
(01:07:07):
Until next week. It's a bitter sweet symphony that's live
trying to make and meet your slave too money to
you die. Do Do Do Do Do Do Do Do
Do Do Do Do Do Do Do. Why did I
(01:07:33):
sing that as if I was the lead singer of
nickel Back, I well, you're kind of yeah, there is
a kind of nickelbacking on quality. There's photo but it
also kind of sounds like Ganga, Like you know how
Ganga sometimes goes like full Nickelback and she's like you
know what I mean? Um oh oh, I know what
(01:07:55):
you mean. I do
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