August 5, 2025 • 32 mins
Following the discovery of the weapon used to murder Alan Berg, Wayne Manis and the FBI close in on the Order's leader, Robert Mathews. Their attempt to bring Mathews to justice culminates in a violent and fiery exchange on Whidbey Island, Washington. And the details of that standoff between Mathews and authorities proved just as startling as the decision made by Denver's district attorney, Norman Early.
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Live Wire is a production of iHeart Podcasts and Modulator Media.
Previously on Live Wire the Loud Life and Shocking Murder
of Alan burd There.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Could be a clue to who the murderer is in
the recent threats and the records that we have at
station and the police might have, but then again there
may not be. Alan was constantly joking about the threats
that were made on his life. I don't really know
how seriously he took them. Maybe he did, but he
never appeared to on the surface.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
And there was a tremendous amount of public pressure and
pressure among us in law enforcement to find the answers
and to bring these people to justice.
Speaker 4 (00:45):
Well, I think I heard about the crime on the news, actually,
and then I realized that an armored car robbery is
most likely to be a federal crime, and so I
would have some role in that, although at that time
I had no idea who had committed. That crime was
a very brazen one. They held up a sign get
out or die, and they were blocking the traffic. Most
(01:09):
of the people who were driving on that road thought
it was part of some Hollywood movie, and so it
was a rather spectacular crime. We started working on the
case slowly and systematically learning more and more about this
group known as the Order, which I had never heard
of before this crime. I hadn't even heard actually of
(01:29):
the murder of Alan Berg. It was a complete shock
to learn that there was a group like that who
were dedicated to a white only state in part of
the United States and were committing these serious crimes. I
had never even imagined.
Speaker 5 (01:45):
That the group consisted of something over twenty individuals at
that particular time, all of them were led by a
man named Robert pat who lived in Mede Lane Falls.
Speaker 6 (02:02):
Which is.
Speaker 5 (02:05):
Somewhat northwest of where I was located in Quarterlane. And
I began to identify all the memories associated with that group,
and I and began to identify crimes that.
Speaker 6 (02:20):
I felt were.
Speaker 5 (02:21):
Associated or were crimes that were actually conducted by that group,
bank robbery, counterfeiting, armored car robberies, and then some acts
of viols that were not income producing, like bombing of
(02:42):
a synagogue and things such as that.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
What it started out as a shocking murder investigation with
numerous potential suspects, eventually ended with investigators zeroing in on
a white supremacist organization responsible for a variety of crimes,
all committed with a single endgame in mind, eventually overthrowing
the United States government in order to turn the country
into a white ethno state. Through the collaboration between local
(03:12):
and federal officials, the group known as the Order was
meticulously profiled along with their many crimes, including Alan Burg's murder.
But when it came to handing down indictments for all
the individuals involved, things got way more complicated than a
single murder charge. Here is David Heckenbach, who at the
time worked for the Denver District Attorney's office.
Speaker 3 (03:35):
As the investigation continued, yet it became clear that this
white supremacist group, who I think they called themselves the
Area Nations the Order, were involved. The FEDS took a
(03:59):
very would have to call it a primary role in
investigating the Areyan Nations as a whole, because they were
putting together a rico prosecution based out of Seattle.
Speaker 1 (04:14):
In a short period of time, investigators had managed to
uncover every element of the Burg assassination, including the crucial
discovery of the murder weapon.
Speaker 4 (04:25):
They found a murder weapon in one of the homes
of Gary Yarborough, who is one of the Order defendants
one of the people suspected in the armored car robbery,
and so the Bird case became part of our overall effort.
Speaker 7 (04:41):
Agents last October raided his home in Sandpoint, Idaho. It
was in that raid that they recovered a submachine gun
like this, a MAC ten, capable of firing one thousand
rounds per minute. The ammunition for the MAC ten is
forty five caliber slugs, the same type bullets that killed
al Namver.
Speaker 8 (05:01):
Police Department received from the FBI test bullets from that
MAC ten recovered at Standpoint, Idaho and conducted ballistic comparisons
with the bullets that we had received from the Allenberg slane.
The test indictadas of the recovered MAC ten was, in
fact the weapon used to kill mister Berg.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
Yarbro was just one of a number of individuals identified
for their role in Allenberg's murder, as well as numerous
other crimes ranging from armed robbery to counterfeiting, But this
investigation ultimately came down to tracking down and indicting the
group's leader, Robert Matthews, an avid anti Semite and white
supremacist who had formed the Order in the Pacific Northwest
(05:43):
in nineteen eighty three, but taking Matthews into custody wouldn't
be so easy. Here is FBI agent Wayne Mannis, who
by this point had spent some time profiling and tracking
down Matthews.
Speaker 6 (05:56):
There were several that.
Speaker 5 (06:00):
Drawn to Bob Matthews, whom we had just previously encounter
in an hotel.
Speaker 9 (06:08):
In Oregon and had engaged in a gunbattle or one
the FBI as was shot and Bob Matthews was shot
in the hands, and he had escaped.
Speaker 6 (06:23):
And had taken refuge in a shabbin.
Speaker 5 (06:28):
And right along the shoreline at boat on the ocean
at would Be Island.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
I'm filmmaker and journalist Talponschewski, and this is episode eight
stand off at Wildbe Island, the largest island in Washington State.
Would Be Island is located about thirty miles north of Seattle.
Other than a naval air station, it's almost entirely rural
(06:55):
and home to a number of state and federal parks.
In other words, not a bad place for the leader
of an at large criminal organization to hide out from
federal agents.
Speaker 5 (07:06):
We moved in to make an arrest on him, and
he opened fire.
Speaker 6 (07:10):
On us at the house where he was.
Speaker 5 (07:15):
Fighting out. He was the only one left in the
in the house at that time.
Speaker 6 (07:21):
And then.
Speaker 5 (07:24):
Eventually the the encounter led into the night, and there
was we still were trying to get him to surrender.
Speaker 6 (07:35):
We brought in two helicopters and set him almost on
top of the house.
Speaker 10 (07:40):
And just in in an act of trying to create
enough terror that he would inside him that he would
be maybe change his mind and surrender, But instead he
opened fire on the helicopters, were them off, and then
(08:01):
it gad open fire on those of us that were
engaging him from outside the house, and.
Speaker 6 (08:09):
Rather lengthy firefight took place.
Speaker 5 (08:14):
At that time I was engaged with two other agents
directly in front of him at.
Speaker 6 (08:28):
The rear of the house, where he was fired upon
me and the others.
Speaker 5 (08:32):
Then he fired on a team off to the west
and a team off to the east, and he was
very well alarmed.
Speaker 6 (08:40):
He had a lot of weapons.
Speaker 5 (08:41):
And after remember this started at about three o'clock in
the afternoon during the day, and now we're laid up
into the night and this firefight is still going on.
Speaker 6 (08:53):
In the course of that time, we were.
Speaker 5 (08:55):
Worried that Bob Matthews might escape out amongst us because
it was.
Speaker 6 (09:00):
Very dark and the lights that.
Speaker 5 (09:03):
We could apply only lit up the exterior of the house,
but not all that well in all portions of the
of the surrounding property around the house. A flarees fired
inside the house.
Speaker 6 (09:22):
On the ground level.
Speaker 5 (09:23):
Matthews was upstairs and his war room was upstairs, and
the the cabin caught fire. And during the course of
the cabin burning and the fire becoming larger and larger,
(09:44):
Matthews continued to fire with his machine gun extensively until
the fire eventually reached the youngstairs level, and he continued
to fire, and then the firing stopped, and then the
many rounds of ammunition he had there I recalled them
(10:05):
starting to cook off from the blaze.
Speaker 6 (10:07):
I knew that the entire building.
Speaker 5 (10:10):
Was going to be consumed at that point, and it was.
And so the next morning the only thing that was
left was the foundation and Bob Matthews lying on the ground,
completely consumed by fire. In the morning, we found Matthews
(10:37):
was dead inside the house, and that concluded our engagement
with Bob Matthews.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
Following this lengthy firefight with the man he had been
tracking for weeks, Manus was overcome with a variety of
mixed emotions. After all, he had spent countless hours profiling Matthews,
even coming to admire the incredible power he had built
and wilded through the order. But he had been looking
forward to cuffing Manas and bringing him to justice. Instead,
(11:12):
he was forced to settle for a brief encounter with
Matthew's charred corpse.
Speaker 6 (11:17):
He believed the way he was doing.
Speaker 5 (11:22):
Was the right thing to do, even though it was
very much wrong. Once he had taken other people's lives,
and once he had put so many people in harms away,
and I had committed so many crimes.
Speaker 6 (11:38):
But I knew in his mind he.
Speaker 5 (11:40):
Regarded himself as a patriot, and.
Speaker 6 (11:44):
I knew that his life was over.
Speaker 5 (11:49):
And I thought badly that all this commitment had not
been used.
Speaker 10 (12:00):
In a more.
Speaker 6 (12:06):
Let me say, in a more.
Speaker 5 (12:10):
Constructive way, and it hadn't been so destructive, and it
had been used in the manner in which it had
been used. I was glad that we wouldn't have to
face his machine gun fire anymore, and that we wouldn't
have him leading an organization trying to kill FBI agents
and other law enforcement officers in the course of their activities,
(12:32):
But it's so badly for the losses of the life
and knowing how dedicated how community was.
Speaker 4 (12:41):
When Robert Matthews was finally encountered and ultimately died and
would Be Island, that was pretty much the kickoff.
Speaker 8 (12:49):
Of our prosecution.
Speaker 1 (12:51):
That's US attorney Peter Robinson, And with Matthews dead and
a series of high profile indictments officially underway, he was
about to be very busy by.
Speaker 4 (13:01):
That time that they accumulated a huge amount of information
about the group and its activities and its members. So
by the time we had that standoff and would Be Island,
they had accumulated most of the information that we would
need for our indictment. I mean most of all. You're
sad to hear that another human being has died, regardless
(13:22):
of what crimes he's committed, and I felt that way.
But also I felt like he was the main defendant
in our case, and so it would be a little
bit diminished without him in the courtroom. And I would
actually would have liked to have met him and seen
what he was like and understood how he could lead
(13:42):
those people to do all those things. So there was
that kind of disappointment. I also felt like he might
become a martyr, and I thought that was unfortunate too.
Speaker 5 (13:53):
You have to understand that whether you agree when the
group the owner or not, out of regard to themselves
as a very patriotic organization that was interested in the
survival of the America it terms as to how America
(14:18):
was initially uh constituted, in terms of their belief that
the country should be more closely aware as to what
our founding fathers wanted this country to be, and they
(14:41):
felt that the country was.
Speaker 6 (14:42):
Losing its way.
Speaker 5 (14:44):
So when they killed ellen Berg, they did that with
the belief and understanding that he was one of the
individuals that was prominently passing propaganda thousands of people that
(15:09):
was in conflict of what they believed was what Oberica
should stand for.
Speaker 6 (15:20):
So they've recorded themselves as.
Speaker 5 (15:21):
Patriots, is what I'm I guess I'm really trying to say.
And they felt that they were doing a patriotic thing
when they assassinated him.
Speaker 1 (15:31):
From that point on, federal authorities began making multiple arrests.
Here's Lori Cantillo, who reported on Berg's murder for Denver
radio station KOA.
Speaker 11 (15:41):
Yes, I got a call. I believe it was right
after I went to sleep early because I was working
the early shift. But I got a call from the
newsroom saying they've made an arrest in the death of
Alan Berg, and we need you to get on a
red eye flight and head to Atlanta. The suspect was
Bruce Pearce, and I recall jumping on a plane, sleeping
(16:04):
through the night, landing in Atlanta, and being present for
a morning arraignment. I knew Allan I was his friend,
but I'm also a journalist, and I need to put
my personal feelings for Alan aside and cover this as
a professional. But of course, when I would do interviews
(16:26):
with people at KOWA, I would talk about how I
felt and how the suspect appeared and so forth. It's
virtually impossible to totally separate your feelings in that situation.
But again, was able to stay busy and file reports
(16:47):
and try to remain as impartial as possible.
Speaker 12 (16:50):
Pierce has been in hiding since May, when he disappeared
from Yakima, Washington, after pleading guilty to passing a phony bill.
He also is connected to several armored cars in the Northwest.
I talked with an FBI agent in kallispell Montana, who
says Pierce is like a chameleon, I think.
Speaker 2 (17:07):
Is extremely dangerous.
Speaker 13 (17:08):
Anyone who walks around with three guns on him as
a fragmentation hand grenade. Knight would listened dynamite is a
very dangerous person who also is healed the weapons over
there and all the equipment available, I would call him
a dangerous person.
Speaker 6 (17:19):
When Bruce Gerald Peers opened fire on Alan Berg.
Speaker 5 (17:28):
As he stepped out of his car at his residence
one night in June nineteen eighty four, he unleashed.
Speaker 6 (17:39):
Firepower on him in the form of a fully.
Speaker 5 (17:42):
Automatic machine gun type weapon and the gun jam on
the fourteenth round. So we fired thirteen rounds and then
the gun jam on the fourteenth round, and he.
Speaker 6 (17:59):
Primarily Matthews profoundly stated that.
Speaker 5 (18:05):
That is a sign from God that we're on the
right path and we will be successful because the thirteen
rounds had fired stands for the thirteen original states, and
this is like in an ordained message to us that
(18:28):
we're on.
Speaker 6 (18:28):
The right path.
Speaker 1 (18:30):
As it turned out, federal officials moved in on the
order at the perfect time. Remember, the investigation into the
criminal organization took off following the holdup of a Brins
armored car in Yukaya, California. Brinks employees had actually been
involved in the holdup, providing crucial information to Order members,
(18:50):
and it turns out the collaboration with those Brinks employees
may not have ended there had officials not moved in.
Speaker 5 (18:56):
And at the time that we actually moved in and
took down the group, they were within two weeks of
conducting a robbery on Brink's headquarters in San Francisco.
Speaker 6 (19:10):
The two individuals that.
Speaker 5 (19:13):
Had joined and affiliated with Bob matthews group.
Speaker 6 (19:16):
The Order had provided Matthews with the all the.
Speaker 5 (19:27):
Interior schematics, the information they would need as to exactly
when to make their assault on the headquarters, when the
when the money would be the most money would be
(19:51):
available in stock there, how to penetrate and the choir,
their access to the vault, and pretty much what to
expect in terms of resistance. Two weeks before they were
(20:15):
planning to do the brinch headquarters robbery, we.
Speaker 6 (20:24):
Made the decision to take them down, not knowing at
the time.
Speaker 5 (20:32):
That that was their plan, only finding out subsequently.
Speaker 6 (20:38):
I can't even imagine.
Speaker 5 (20:42):
How that would have.
Speaker 6 (20:47):
How that would have occurred about with a great.
Speaker 8 (20:49):
Deal of.
Speaker 6 (20:52):
Of a loss of life.
Speaker 1 (20:56):
Following his fiery death in the violent standoff last several hours,
Bob Matthews still managed to contribute a final piece of
evidence indicating how far the Order was willing to go
in its mission, and.
Speaker 6 (21:09):
We moved in on him and with the island.
Speaker 5 (21:14):
They had sent a letter to Congress while he was there,
threatening the members of Congress, stating to members of Congress
that they wanted five northwestern states turned over to them.
And they were bold enough to say to the members
(21:34):
of Congress that they didn't care if a congress person
swung to the left or to the right, they would
simply swing them by the neck until dead. So they
were boldly threatening Congress. And this was just days before
we moved in on them.
Speaker 1 (21:56):
With the exception of Robert Matthews, every indicted member of
the Order was captured without gunfire. Several members were tried
under RICO statutes. For those of you who may be
unfamiliar with the term, RICO refers to the Racketeer, Influenced
and Corrupt Organizations Act, basically acts pertaining to an ongoing
criminal organization. In a separate trial, four members of the
(22:20):
Order were also indicted for violating Allenberg's civil rights, but
in an excruciating decision by the Denver District Attorney's office,
there were no local charges in the murder of alan Berg.
To this day, no one has been formally charged with
his murder.
Speaker 11 (22:37):
The district attorney norm Early declined to file murder charges.
That was very controversial, and people who liked him, he
was very popular, likable kind of a guy, were very
angry and upset about that decision. Felt that it was
(22:57):
a bit cowardly and it was up to then the
federal government to come after the perpetrators for racketeering charges,
which wasn't nearly as satisfying as filing the murder charges.
So some people would say that it was very political,
that there was an election looming, and that he just
(23:20):
didn't want to jeopardize his political future by pressing charges
and not being able to win that case.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
This wasn't as simple as a district attorney willingly overlooking
a hate crime. After all, norm Early was Denver's first
black DA and was considered a pioneer of crime victims' rights.
But when it came to choosing not to file charges
in Allenberg's murder, there were other elements at play here
Once again is David Heckenbach.
Speaker 3 (23:48):
The elected DA at that time was a man named
Norm Early, Dorman Strickland Early. He was as elected DA.
Speaker 6 (24:02):
He was my.
Speaker 3 (24:06):
Boss, if you will. It was ultimately his decision as
to what, if anything in our office would do in
terms of prosecuting mister in prosecuting Ellenberg's killers, and so
he had he asked me to be involved in every
(24:32):
aspect of the Denver police investigation.
Speaker 5 (24:39):
That was.
Speaker 3 (24:41):
That occurred obviously, and then to the extent that the
FEDS would share information, to participate in that process of
sharing and exchanging information during the investigation between agencies between
the Denver Police Department, our office, the DA's office, and
(25:04):
the FBI and the US Attorney's office up in Seattle.
And then ultimately my job would have been, had it
been had Norm decided to proceed with prosecuting those killers
after the Rico verdict was rendered, my job would have
(25:27):
been to have assembled the evidence and presented the case
for prosecution first degree murder here in Denver. I think
the best way to describe it was a that it
was a committee decision, with a committee comprised of Normally,
(25:53):
the elected district Attorney, myself, the then Chief of Police
Peace in Denver, his division chief in charge of investigations,
the homicide detectives. But ultimately it was Norm Early's decision
(26:13):
as to whether or not we should proceed with a prosecution.
And the issue wasn't so much whether or not these
people deserved to be prosecuted by the local authorities, because
at that time Colorado did have a death penalty provision
(26:39):
that had been enacted by the legislature. The FEDS at
that time did not. So one of the issues was
is that Norm had to decide was given the cost
of what it would take for security, for evidence gathering,
(27:06):
even transportation between of the defendants to and from the
Denver courthouse, security for the personnel involved, and given that
the rather substantial life sentences that were handed out after
the Rico trial resulted in a conviction, Norm had to
(27:33):
weigh It was a difficult decision for him, and he
struggled with it very much. So it was not a
decision that Norm took lightly at all. It was a
very very weighty decision. And at that point of the
decision making process, there were also leaders of the Jewish
(27:55):
community that were involved in all of these discussions, and
my boss and dear friend Norm early ultimately decided that
we were not going to proceed with the local prosecution
(28:19):
because all of the bad guys had been convicted and
were locked away basically for the rest of their lives
in the Department of Prisons for the FEDS. And he
asked me to join him at a lunch meeting with
(28:45):
the adl Antidefamation League leaders and also some other leaders
from the Jewish community at the Hebrew Educational Alliance here
in Denver. I dutifully agreed to go with Norm, and
then Norm canceled and I had to deliver the news
by myself to that group that the decision was made
(29:10):
that we were not going to prosecute locally the murder
of Ellenburgh. I was pretty nervous frankly going into it,
because you know, first of all, it wasn't my decision.
It was Norm's decision, and it was his to make,
and I respected that man very very much, and I
(29:30):
understood how difficult it was for him. And to this day,
I do not know whether Norm just wanted me to
take the heat or if he really was unable to
attend that meeting, it was obviously important.
Speaker 1 (29:47):
Four decades later, that difficult moment when Heckenbuck shared this
heartbreaking news with the local community in Denver still sticks
out as a seminal moment in his legal career.
Speaker 3 (29:57):
It's something I will remember for the rest of my life.
That it was well received. I can't say that they
were happy about the decision, but they were very understanding
about it, and it wasn't delivered as a like it
or lumpet. It was delivered in a dialogue form and
(30:20):
with explanations to the very best of my ability, and
with whatever my understanding was of Norm's position, the city council's,
the mayor's, all of the factors that went into Norm's
very very difficult decision were shared at that meeting. It
(30:43):
meant a lot to me that Norm trusted me to
do it, and that the reception I got was anything
but angry.
Speaker 6 (30:54):
It was not. It was.
Speaker 3 (30:59):
A very positive experience in my life. The issue really
wasn't so much whether or not these guys were the
right guys. We knew they were. The issue was is
it worth devoting those kinds of resources when the defendants,
(31:20):
the criminals, the murderers, were already locked up for the
rest of their lives. What more was there to gain
and at what cost in terms of resources? And what
would that cost mean in terms of all the other
terrible things that can happen in a big city.
Speaker 1 (31:42):
With that difficult decision made by the denver DIA's office,
the trial of the Order was set to take place
in a Seattle courthouse in September of nineteen eighty five,
more than a year after Allenberg's murder, and with Robert
Matthews no longer alive and able to face justice. The
prosecution of the Order members who had been indicted would
be long and complicated. Security would be incredibly tight in
(32:05):
the courtroom, and there would be a mob of national
media covering every detail of the trial. All that in
the next episode of live Wire, The Loud Life and
Shocking Murder of Alan Burg. Live Wire is a production
of iHeart Podcasts and Modulator Media. For more podcasts from
(32:26):
iHeart Podcasts, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever
you get your podcasts.
Live Wire is a production of iHeart Podcasts and Modulator Media.
Previously on Live Wire the Loud Life and Shocking Murder
of Alan burd There.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Could be a clue to who the murderer is in
the recent threats and the records that we have at
station and the police might have, but then again there
may not be. Alan was constantly joking about the threats
that were made on his life. I don't really know
how seriously he took them. Maybe he did, but he
never appeared to on the surface.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
And there was a tremendous amount of public pressure and
pressure among us in law enforcement to find the answers
and to bring these people to justice.
Speaker 4 (00:45):
Well, I think I heard about the crime on the news, actually,
and then I realized that an armored car robbery is
most likely to be a federal crime, and so I
would have some role in that, although at that time
I had no idea who had committed. That crime was
a very brazen one. They held up a sign get
out or die, and they were blocking the traffic. Most
(01:09):
of the people who were driving on that road thought
it was part of some Hollywood movie, and so it
was a rather spectacular crime. We started working on the
case slowly and systematically learning more and more about this
group known as the Order, which I had never heard
of before this crime. I hadn't even heard actually of
(01:29):
the murder of Alan Berg. It was a complete shock
to learn that there was a group like that who
were dedicated to a white only state in part of
the United States and were committing these serious crimes. I
had never even imagined.
Speaker 5 (01:45):
That the group consisted of something over twenty individuals at
that particular time, all of them were led by a
man named Robert pat who lived in Mede Lane Falls.
Speaker 6 (02:02):
Which is.
Speaker 5 (02:05):
Somewhat northwest of where I was located in Quarterlane. And
I began to identify all the memories associated with that group,
and I and began to identify crimes that.
Speaker 6 (02:20):
I felt were.
Speaker 5 (02:21):
Associated or were crimes that were actually conducted by that group,
bank robbery, counterfeiting, armored car robberies, and then some acts
of viols that were not income producing, like bombing of
(02:42):
a synagogue and things such as that.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
What it started out as a shocking murder investigation with
numerous potential suspects, eventually ended with investigators zeroing in on
a white supremacist organization responsible for a variety of crimes,
all committed with a single endgame in mind, eventually overthrowing
the United States government in order to turn the country
into a white ethno state. Through the collaboration between local
(03:12):
and federal officials, the group known as the Order was
meticulously profiled along with their many crimes, including Alan Burg's murder.
But when it came to handing down indictments for all
the individuals involved, things got way more complicated than a
single murder charge. Here is David Heckenbach, who at the
time worked for the Denver District Attorney's office.
Speaker 3 (03:35):
As the investigation continued, yet it became clear that this
white supremacist group, who I think they called themselves the
Area Nations the Order, were involved. The FEDS took a
(03:59):
very would have to call it a primary role in
investigating the Areyan Nations as a whole, because they were
putting together a rico prosecution based out of Seattle.
Speaker 1 (04:14):
In a short period of time, investigators had managed to
uncover every element of the Burg assassination, including the crucial
discovery of the murder weapon.
Speaker 4 (04:25):
They found a murder weapon in one of the homes
of Gary Yarborough, who is one of the Order defendants
one of the people suspected in the armored car robbery,
and so the Bird case became part of our overall effort.
Speaker 7 (04:41):
Agents last October raided his home in Sandpoint, Idaho. It
was in that raid that they recovered a submachine gun
like this, a MAC ten, capable of firing one thousand
rounds per minute. The ammunition for the MAC ten is
forty five caliber slugs, the same type bullets that killed
al Namver.
Speaker 8 (05:01):
Police Department received from the FBI test bullets from that
MAC ten recovered at Standpoint, Idaho and conducted ballistic comparisons
with the bullets that we had received from the Allenberg slane.
The test indictadas of the recovered MAC ten was, in
fact the weapon used to kill mister Berg.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
Yarbro was just one of a number of individuals identified
for their role in Allenberg's murder, as well as numerous
other crimes ranging from armed robbery to counterfeiting, But this
investigation ultimately came down to tracking down and indicting the
group's leader, Robert Matthews, an avid anti Semite and white
supremacist who had formed the Order in the Pacific Northwest
(05:43):
in nineteen eighty three, but taking Matthews into custody wouldn't
be so easy. Here is FBI agent Wayne Mannis, who
by this point had spent some time profiling and tracking
down Matthews.
Speaker 6 (05:56):
There were several that.
Speaker 5 (06:00):
Drawn to Bob Matthews, whom we had just previously encounter
in an hotel.
Speaker 9 (06:08):
In Oregon and had engaged in a gunbattle or one
the FBI as was shot and Bob Matthews was shot
in the hands, and he had escaped.
Speaker 6 (06:23):
And had taken refuge in a shabbin.
Speaker 5 (06:28):
And right along the shoreline at boat on the ocean
at would Be Island.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
I'm filmmaker and journalist Talponschewski, and this is episode eight
stand off at Wildbe Island, the largest island in Washington State.
Would Be Island is located about thirty miles north of Seattle.
Other than a naval air station, it's almost entirely rural
(06:55):
and home to a number of state and federal parks.
In other words, not a bad place for the leader
of an at large criminal organization to hide out from
federal agents.
Speaker 5 (07:06):
We moved in to make an arrest on him, and
he opened fire.
Speaker 6 (07:10):
On us at the house where he was.
Speaker 5 (07:15):
Fighting out. He was the only one left in the
in the house at that time.
Speaker 6 (07:21):
And then.
Speaker 5 (07:24):
Eventually the the encounter led into the night, and there
was we still were trying to get him to surrender.
Speaker 6 (07:35):
We brought in two helicopters and set him almost on
top of the house.
Speaker 10 (07:40):
And just in in an act of trying to create
enough terror that he would inside him that he would
be maybe change his mind and surrender, But instead he
opened fire on the helicopters, were them off, and then
(08:01):
it gad open fire on those of us that were
engaging him from outside the house, and.
Speaker 6 (08:09):
Rather lengthy firefight took place.
Speaker 5 (08:14):
At that time I was engaged with two other agents
directly in front of him at.
Speaker 6 (08:28):
The rear of the house, where he was fired upon
me and the others.
Speaker 5 (08:32):
Then he fired on a team off to the west
and a team off to the east, and he was
very well alarmed.
Speaker 6 (08:40):
He had a lot of weapons.
Speaker 5 (08:41):
And after remember this started at about three o'clock in
the afternoon during the day, and now we're laid up
into the night and this firefight is still going on.
Speaker 6 (08:53):
In the course of that time, we were.
Speaker 5 (08:55):
Worried that Bob Matthews might escape out amongst us because
it was.
Speaker 6 (09:00):
Very dark and the lights that.
Speaker 5 (09:03):
We could apply only lit up the exterior of the house,
but not all that well in all portions of the
of the surrounding property around the house. A flarees fired
inside the house.
Speaker 6 (09:22):
On the ground level.
Speaker 5 (09:23):
Matthews was upstairs and his war room was upstairs, and
the the cabin caught fire. And during the course of
the cabin burning and the fire becoming larger and larger,
(09:44):
Matthews continued to fire with his machine gun extensively until
the fire eventually reached the youngstairs level, and he continued
to fire, and then the firing stopped, and then the
many rounds of ammunition he had there I recalled them
(10:05):
starting to cook off from the blaze.
Speaker 6 (10:07):
I knew that the entire building.
Speaker 5 (10:10):
Was going to be consumed at that point, and it was.
And so the next morning the only thing that was
left was the foundation and Bob Matthews lying on the ground,
completely consumed by fire. In the morning, we found Matthews
(10:37):
was dead inside the house, and that concluded our engagement
with Bob Matthews.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
Following this lengthy firefight with the man he had been
tracking for weeks, Manus was overcome with a variety of
mixed emotions. After all, he had spent countless hours profiling Matthews,
even coming to admire the incredible power he had built
and wilded through the order. But he had been looking
forward to cuffing Manas and bringing him to justice. Instead,
(11:12):
he was forced to settle for a brief encounter with
Matthew's charred corpse.
Speaker 6 (11:17):
He believed the way he was doing.
Speaker 5 (11:22):
Was the right thing to do, even though it was
very much wrong. Once he had taken other people's lives,
and once he had put so many people in harms away,
and I had committed so many crimes.
Speaker 6 (11:38):
But I knew in his mind he.
Speaker 5 (11:40):
Regarded himself as a patriot, and.
Speaker 6 (11:44):
I knew that his life was over.
Speaker 5 (11:49):
And I thought badly that all this commitment had not
been used.
Speaker 10 (12:00):
In a more.
Speaker 6 (12:06):
Let me say, in a more.
Speaker 5 (12:10):
Constructive way, and it hadn't been so destructive, and it
had been used in the manner in which it had
been used. I was glad that we wouldn't have to
face his machine gun fire anymore, and that we wouldn't
have him leading an organization trying to kill FBI agents
and other law enforcement officers in the course of their activities,
(12:32):
But it's so badly for the losses of the life
and knowing how dedicated how community was.
Speaker 4 (12:41):
When Robert Matthews was finally encountered and ultimately died and
would Be Island, that was pretty much the kickoff.
Speaker 8 (12:49):
Of our prosecution.
Speaker 1 (12:51):
That's US attorney Peter Robinson, And with Matthews dead and
a series of high profile indictments officially underway, he was
about to be very busy by.
Speaker 4 (13:01):
That time that they accumulated a huge amount of information
about the group and its activities and its members. So
by the time we had that standoff and would Be Island,
they had accumulated most of the information that we would
need for our indictment. I mean most of all. You're
sad to hear that another human being has died, regardless
(13:22):
of what crimes he's committed, and I felt that way.
But also I felt like he was the main defendant
in our case, and so it would be a little
bit diminished without him in the courtroom. And I would
actually would have liked to have met him and seen
what he was like and understood how he could lead
(13:42):
those people to do all those things. So there was
that kind of disappointment. I also felt like he might
become a martyr, and I thought that was unfortunate too.
Speaker 5 (13:53):
You have to understand that whether you agree when the
group the owner or not, out of regard to themselves
as a very patriotic organization that was interested in the
survival of the America it terms as to how America
(14:18):
was initially uh constituted, in terms of their belief that
the country should be more closely aware as to what
our founding fathers wanted this country to be, and they
(14:41):
felt that the country was.
Speaker 6 (14:42):
Losing its way.
Speaker 5 (14:44):
So when they killed ellen Berg, they did that with
the belief and understanding that he was one of the
individuals that was prominently passing propaganda thousands of people that
(15:09):
was in conflict of what they believed was what Oberica
should stand for.
Speaker 6 (15:20):
So they've recorded themselves as.
Speaker 5 (15:21):
Patriots, is what I'm I guess I'm really trying to say.
And they felt that they were doing a patriotic thing
when they assassinated him.
Speaker 1 (15:31):
From that point on, federal authorities began making multiple arrests.
Here's Lori Cantillo, who reported on Berg's murder for Denver
radio station KOA.
Speaker 11 (15:41):
Yes, I got a call. I believe it was right
after I went to sleep early because I was working
the early shift. But I got a call from the
newsroom saying they've made an arrest in the death of
Alan Berg, and we need you to get on a
red eye flight and head to Atlanta. The suspect was
Bruce Pearce, and I recall jumping on a plane, sleeping
(16:04):
through the night, landing in Atlanta, and being present for
a morning arraignment. I knew Allan I was his friend,
but I'm also a journalist, and I need to put
my personal feelings for Alan aside and cover this as
a professional. But of course, when I would do interviews
(16:26):
with people at KOWA, I would talk about how I
felt and how the suspect appeared and so forth. It's
virtually impossible to totally separate your feelings in that situation.
But again, was able to stay busy and file reports
(16:47):
and try to remain as impartial as possible.
Speaker 12 (16:50):
Pierce has been in hiding since May, when he disappeared
from Yakima, Washington, after pleading guilty to passing a phony bill.
He also is connected to several armored cars in the Northwest.
I talked with an FBI agent in kallispell Montana, who
says Pierce is like a chameleon, I think.
Speaker 2 (17:07):
Is extremely dangerous.
Speaker 13 (17:08):
Anyone who walks around with three guns on him as
a fragmentation hand grenade. Knight would listened dynamite is a
very dangerous person who also is healed the weapons over
there and all the equipment available, I would call him
a dangerous person.
Speaker 6 (17:19):
When Bruce Gerald Peers opened fire on Alan Berg.
Speaker 5 (17:28):
As he stepped out of his car at his residence
one night in June nineteen eighty four, he unleashed.
Speaker 6 (17:39):
Firepower on him in the form of a fully.
Speaker 5 (17:42):
Automatic machine gun type weapon and the gun jam on
the fourteenth round. So we fired thirteen rounds and then
the gun jam on the fourteenth round, and he.
Speaker 6 (17:59):
Primarily Matthews profoundly stated that.
Speaker 5 (18:05):
That is a sign from God that we're on the
right path and we will be successful because the thirteen
rounds had fired stands for the thirteen original states, and
this is like in an ordained message to us that
(18:28):
we're on.
Speaker 6 (18:28):
The right path.
Speaker 1 (18:30):
As it turned out, federal officials moved in on the
order at the perfect time. Remember, the investigation into the
criminal organization took off following the holdup of a Brins
armored car in Yukaya, California. Brinks employees had actually been
involved in the holdup, providing crucial information to Order members,
(18:50):
and it turns out the collaboration with those Brinks employees
may not have ended there had officials not moved in.
Speaker 5 (18:56):
And at the time that we actually moved in and
took down the group, they were within two weeks of
conducting a robbery on Brink's headquarters in San Francisco.
Speaker 6 (19:10):
The two individuals that.
Speaker 5 (19:13):
Had joined and affiliated with Bob matthews group.
Speaker 6 (19:16):
The Order had provided Matthews with the all the.
Speaker 5 (19:27):
Interior schematics, the information they would need as to exactly
when to make their assault on the headquarters, when the
when the money would be the most money would be
(19:51):
available in stock there, how to penetrate and the choir,
their access to the vault, and pretty much what to
expect in terms of resistance. Two weeks before they were
(20:15):
planning to do the brinch headquarters robbery, we.
Speaker 6 (20:24):
Made the decision to take them down, not knowing at
the time.
Speaker 5 (20:32):
That that was their plan, only finding out subsequently.
Speaker 6 (20:38):
I can't even imagine.
Speaker 5 (20:42):
How that would have.
Speaker 6 (20:47):
How that would have occurred about with a great.
Speaker 8 (20:49):
Deal of.
Speaker 6 (20:52):
Of a loss of life.
Speaker 1 (20:56):
Following his fiery death in the violent standoff last several hours,
Bob Matthews still managed to contribute a final piece of
evidence indicating how far the Order was willing to go
in its mission, and.
Speaker 6 (21:09):
We moved in on him and with the island.
Speaker 5 (21:14):
They had sent a letter to Congress while he was there,
threatening the members of Congress, stating to members of Congress
that they wanted five northwestern states turned over to them.
And they were bold enough to say to the members
(21:34):
of Congress that they didn't care if a congress person
swung to the left or to the right, they would
simply swing them by the neck until dead. So they
were boldly threatening Congress. And this was just days before
we moved in on them.
Speaker 1 (21:56):
With the exception of Robert Matthews, every indicted member of
the Order was captured without gunfire. Several members were tried
under RICO statutes. For those of you who may be
unfamiliar with the term, RICO refers to the Racketeer, Influenced
and Corrupt Organizations Act, basically acts pertaining to an ongoing
criminal organization. In a separate trial, four members of the
(22:20):
Order were also indicted for violating Allenberg's civil rights, but
in an excruciating decision by the Denver District Attorney's office,
there were no local charges in the murder of alan Berg.
To this day, no one has been formally charged with
his murder.
Speaker 11 (22:37):
The district attorney norm Early declined to file murder charges.
That was very controversial, and people who liked him, he
was very popular, likable kind of a guy, were very
angry and upset about that decision. Felt that it was
(22:57):
a bit cowardly and it was up to then the
federal government to come after the perpetrators for racketeering charges,
which wasn't nearly as satisfying as filing the murder charges.
So some people would say that it was very political,
that there was an election looming, and that he just
(23:20):
didn't want to jeopardize his political future by pressing charges
and not being able to win that case.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
This wasn't as simple as a district attorney willingly overlooking
a hate crime. After all, norm Early was Denver's first
black DA and was considered a pioneer of crime victims' rights.
But when it came to choosing not to file charges
in Allenberg's murder, there were other elements at play here
Once again is David Heckenbach.
Speaker 3 (23:48):
The elected DA at that time was a man named
Norm Early, Dorman Strickland Early. He was as elected DA.
Speaker 6 (24:02):
He was my.
Speaker 3 (24:06):
Boss, if you will. It was ultimately his decision as
to what, if anything in our office would do in
terms of prosecuting mister in prosecuting Ellenberg's killers, and so
he had he asked me to be involved in every
(24:32):
aspect of the Denver police investigation.
Speaker 5 (24:39):
That was.
Speaker 3 (24:41):
That occurred obviously, and then to the extent that the
FEDS would share information, to participate in that process of
sharing and exchanging information during the investigation between agencies between
the Denver Police Department, our office, the DA's office, and
(25:04):
the FBI and the US Attorney's office up in Seattle.
And then ultimately my job would have been, had it
been had Norm decided to proceed with prosecuting those killers
after the Rico verdict was rendered, my job would have
(25:27):
been to have assembled the evidence and presented the case
for prosecution first degree murder here in Denver. I think
the best way to describe it was a that it
was a committee decision, with a committee comprised of Normally,
(25:53):
the elected district Attorney, myself, the then Chief of Police
Peace in Denver, his division chief in charge of investigations,
the homicide detectives. But ultimately it was Norm Early's decision
(26:13):
as to whether or not we should proceed with a prosecution.
And the issue wasn't so much whether or not these
people deserved to be prosecuted by the local authorities, because
at that time Colorado did have a death penalty provision
(26:39):
that had been enacted by the legislature. The FEDS at
that time did not. So one of the issues was
is that Norm had to decide was given the cost
of what it would take for security, for evidence gathering,
(27:06):
even transportation between of the defendants to and from the
Denver courthouse, security for the personnel involved, and given that
the rather substantial life sentences that were handed out after
the Rico trial resulted in a conviction, Norm had to
(27:33):
weigh It was a difficult decision for him, and he
struggled with it very much. So it was not a
decision that Norm took lightly at all. It was a
very very weighty decision. And at that point of the
decision making process, there were also leaders of the Jewish
(27:55):
community that were involved in all of these discussions, and
my boss and dear friend Norm early ultimately decided that
we were not going to proceed with the local prosecution
(28:19):
because all of the bad guys had been convicted and
were locked away basically for the rest of their lives
in the Department of Prisons for the FEDS. And he
asked me to join him at a lunch meeting with
(28:45):
the adl Antidefamation League leaders and also some other leaders
from the Jewish community at the Hebrew Educational Alliance here
in Denver. I dutifully agreed to go with Norm, and
then Norm canceled and I had to deliver the news
by myself to that group that the decision was made
(29:10):
that we were not going to prosecute locally the murder
of Ellenburgh. I was pretty nervous frankly going into it,
because you know, first of all, it wasn't my decision.
It was Norm's decision, and it was his to make,
and I respected that man very very much, and I
(29:30):
understood how difficult it was for him. And to this day,
I do not know whether Norm just wanted me to
take the heat or if he really was unable to
attend that meeting, it was obviously important.
Speaker 1 (29:47):
Four decades later, that difficult moment when Heckenbuck shared this
heartbreaking news with the local community in Denver still sticks
out as a seminal moment in his legal career.
Speaker 3 (29:57):
It's something I will remember for the rest of my life.
That it was well received. I can't say that they
were happy about the decision, but they were very understanding
about it, and it wasn't delivered as a like it
or lumpet. It was delivered in a dialogue form and
(30:20):
with explanations to the very best of my ability, and
with whatever my understanding was of Norm's position, the city council's,
the mayor's, all of the factors that went into Norm's
very very difficult decision were shared at that meeting. It
(30:43):
meant a lot to me that Norm trusted me to
do it, and that the reception I got was anything
but angry.
Speaker 6 (30:54):
It was not. It was.
Speaker 3 (30:59):
A very positive experience in my life. The issue really
wasn't so much whether or not these guys were the
right guys. We knew they were. The issue was is
it worth devoting those kinds of resources when the defendants,
(31:20):
the criminals, the murderers, were already locked up for the
rest of their lives. What more was there to gain
and at what cost in terms of resources? And what
would that cost mean in terms of all the other
terrible things that can happen in a big city.
Speaker 1 (31:42):
With that difficult decision made by the denver DIA's office,
the trial of the Order was set to take place
in a Seattle courthouse in September of nineteen eighty five,
more than a year after Allenberg's murder, and with Robert
Matthews no longer alive and able to face justice. The
prosecution of the Order members who had been indicted would
be long and complicated. Security would be incredibly tight in
(32:05):
the courtroom, and there would be a mob of national
media covering every detail of the trial. All that in
the next episode of live Wire, The Loud Life and
Shocking Murder of Alan Burg. Live Wire is a production
of iHeart Podcasts and Modulator Media. For more podcasts from
(32:26):
iHeart Podcasts, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever
you get your podcasts.
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