Capítulo 195: Hot To Hate with Jillian Hernandez

How did Jennifer Lopez go from icon to the internet's most ridiculed? After the release of JLO's latest projects, "This Is Me Now" and "The Greatest Love Story Never Told", we noticed a slew of JLO hate. In this capítulo, we make a case for art criticism and are joined by scholar and writer, Jillian Hernandez. She discusses what this rise in slander says about us as a culture and how misogyny always shows its ugly head. 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:03):
Lokata Radio is a radiophonic novela.

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Which is just a very extra way of saying a podcast.

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We're podcasting through another Trump election year. We've been podcasting
through election years, a global pandemic, civic unrest, political controversies,
the Me Too movement, the rise of TikTok, and we
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From our Lips to your Ears, Fall in love with
Loka to a radio like you never have before.

Speaker 4 (00:50):
Welcome to Season nine.

Speaker 3 (00:52):
Love that first listen, O.

Speaker 1 (00:57):
La la Loka Motes. Welcome to season nine of Loka
Tora Radio. I'm Diosa and I'm Mala. Loka Dora Radio
is a podcast dedicated to archiving our present and shifting
the culture forward. Last time on lok at Dora Radio,
we discussed the current climate on university campuses across the US,
but especially and specifically USC because we are both affiliated

(01:21):
with USC, and we had our guest last A Wido,
a father of a USC student, join us to talk
about what he witnessed and how we can be in
solidarity with the Palestinian movement.

Speaker 5 (01:31):
You were there and see the students that the police
were going af there then and they say no, we
are yes, say we have a peace protesting. We're protesting peacefully.
You have to get out no US.

Speaker 1 (01:44):
Today we're talking about j Loo and why it's so
hot to hate Jlo right now and what does it
say about our current culture, our current society.

Speaker 2 (01:56):
But before we dive into that super duper hot topic
and that's super duper hot interview, we want to discuss
our own analysis and review of things since so much
of the chatter has happened while we were off season,
and Jlo's movie This Is Me Now also came out
while we were off season, and that movie has basically

(02:18):
jumpstarted a lot of this chatter, especially on TikTok, and
we've been dying to talk about it.

Speaker 1 (02:25):
Yeah, and I think yes, it definitely jumpstarted the current
chatter on TikTok because I think obviously TikTok is a
newer platform, but people have been hating on j Loo
for many, many years now, some of it warranted, some
of it unwarranted in my opinion. So I think in
order to talk about the current hate, we have to
talk about the build up, and we have to go
back a little bit. She's been an unfavorable and unpopular

(02:50):
person for the last couple of years. So I think
we're going to look at the timeline today, look at
the timeline of events, and then how did that all
lead up? It's just like a recipe for disaster, you
know what I mean.

Speaker 2 (03:02):
Yeah, we've been watching, We've been watching the cauldron boiling
and bubbling, and it's come to a tipping point.

Speaker 3 (03:12):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (03:13):
And it's funny because, like we've talked about on this
podcast before, right, sometimes even somebody doing something unfavorable or
bad results in this wave of press about them, chatter
about them that I think almost like works in the
reverse of its intention, you know, from the people who

(03:36):
are hate posting.

Speaker 4 (03:37):
If you've heard the phrase all press is good press.

Speaker 2 (03:40):
I do believe that that applies to like internet chatter
about celebs when they put out major projects. Even if
we hate the major project. The point is to get
the people talking, and the people have been talking, and so.

Speaker 4 (03:54):
Here we are.

Speaker 2 (03:55):
We're gonna continue to talk about j Lo because that's
the situation we find ourselves in.

Speaker 3 (04:00):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (04:00):
And something that I've seen online that we're not going
to do here today, but that I've seen online is
people discussing whether or not Jaylo is a good or
bad person. There have been examples that she's been rude
to wait staff, to servers.

Speaker 3 (04:13):
And we're not getting into that.

Speaker 1 (04:15):
We're not here to say, We're no one to judge
like if someone's a good person or not.

Speaker 3 (04:19):
More so, we're interested in the art, what was.

Speaker 1 (04:22):
Put out and then the reaction from people and whether
it was warranted or not.

Speaker 2 (04:27):
Right, We're definitely not here to decide whether or not
Jayla is a good person or a bad person, because
how would any of us know.

Speaker 1 (04:35):
No, we don't know her, We nobody ever met You've
never met je No. The parasocial relationships creepy. Yeah, but
I mean I guess to that point though, then there
are people that have met her and have said my
interaction with her was horrible. Right, But again, like that
is not the chatter that we're interested in.

Speaker 3 (04:52):
I think it's more so.

Speaker 1 (04:53):
About how the public, how the online community has reacted
to her projects, and how a woman can go from
icon to be hated so harshly. So something that is
brought up a lot with Jlo and her singing career
and her music is that she quote stole a Shanti's voice.
That's the language that I hear all the time. She

(05:14):
stole a Shanti's career because a Shanti's voice, her track
record was laid down with Jlo and it was kept
in and that's what made it to production, made it
to be published.

Speaker 3 (05:27):
Right.

Speaker 1 (05:28):
And so people say that she jaela one Jaylo can sing,
and two she stole another artist's voice. And I think
that that.

Speaker 3 (05:35):
Is a pretty wild thing to say when I don't
think that's how.

Speaker 2 (05:41):
It works in the music industry. Now correct me if
I'm wrong, But I don't think that Jelo is a
music executive or a music producer. I don't know that
she clears samples, and especially towards the early years of
her career, I don't think that she was the one

(06:05):
like deciding which records were going to who. I mean, Famously,
we hear all the time about songs that well, this
was supposed to be a Christina Aguilera song, This was
supposed to be a Gaga song, This was gonna be
a Beyonce song, but it went to somebody else.

Speaker 4 (06:21):
Super typical. I think.

Speaker 2 (06:24):
I also know that Ashanti's mother has been her manager
for like her entire career, and I personally have a
lot of respect for Ashanti as an artist and for
her mom and for her team. And it's like really
wild to me too, this assumption that like Ashanti has
had no say or no, I don't know, control over

(06:48):
her music or her vocals. It just seems like who
were the execs, Like who's running the studio, who owns
the music? Like who was in the background, like wheeling
and dealing and making these decisions. I don't think it
was the singers.

Speaker 1 (07:05):
No, And especially at that time when these music, when
these songs came out and gained popularity and I think
pushed Jlo to a pop star status of sorts, it
was early in her career, so she definitely wouldn't have
had that power to wield against another musician or artist.
And I think that the real person people need to

(07:27):
be mad at is Tommy Motola, who is Mariah Carey's
ex husband, and she has written about him in her
memoir and has said that it was an abusive marriage.
He was very controlling, propped up Jaylo to be a
competitor against Mariah Carey. So the feud is like very
much deeper between the two of them than like, oh,
I don't know her. It's that Jaylo was used in

(07:47):
this way by Tommy Mottola. And so I think that
the real person that people should be mad at is
Tommy Mottola, because I think he was the actual puppet
master behind all.

Speaker 2 (07:56):
Of this totally, you know, I mean famously. I mean
this is pre me Too movement. You know, this is
like pre I'm not bossy, I'm the boss. You know,
this is like pre social media, and I mean famously, Like,

(08:18):
artists don't really always have control over their own music.
We can talk about Taylor Swift, we can talk about Kesha,
you know, and Doctor Luke and how she's been embroiled
in that drama with Doctor Luke for a very long time,
you know, or Taylor Swift re recorded a bunch of
her music her masters, you know, because typically artists don't

(08:39):
own their music, and they might make lots of money
off of it, but they're not actually deciding, you know,
at the end of the day, what's making the album
and what's going to be chosen as the single, and
what's going to take off and what's going to be promoted.
I think Beyonce has created a system for herself where
she has like tons of ownership over what she does.

(09:01):
But I think it's probably because she saw right like
the blueprint and how artists were being mistreated and then
how the music was out of their hands. Beyonce has
created like her own lane for herself. But that's not
everybody's story. It's certainly not Jaelo's story.

Speaker 1 (09:20):
Yeah, and I think the opinion that she can't sing,
you know, whether warranted or not. Again, I think it
goes back to the music industry and like, well, why
was this person propped up to be the next pop
star because she didn't just make herself overnight with no help.
So again, like I think if there's issues with her

(09:42):
quote being talentless, like again, like what considering the time
that it was, this was the early two thousands, This
was like around the Latin boom era, like the Riki
Martin era, Christina.

Speaker 3 (09:53):
Aguilera, like all of that.

Speaker 1 (09:55):
Like, as we've said before, Jelo launched, not Jaelo, but
Google Images was launched because of j Loo, because of
her versace dress. So considering all of these things, this
cultural context is really important. And why would the music
industry want to prop up someone like her in that timeframe?

Speaker 4 (10:12):
Right?

Speaker 2 (10:12):
There's also famously like in the United States, you don't
have to sing to be a famous singer, You just don't.

Speaker 1 (10:19):
You don't have to do anything to be famous in
the US at us point anymore.

Speaker 2 (10:24):
Like, celebrity is based off of all kinds of things,
and the wealth that sometimes comes with celebrity is based
on all kinds of things. But it's not always talent.
And I mean I mean pop stars especially, you know,
are not necessarily always vocalists, right, And Jaylo is just

(10:45):
one of the the ogs of this, She's just one
of the originals.

Speaker 4 (10:49):
We know.

Speaker 2 (10:49):
J Loo is not a vocalist. No, she doesn't have
much vocal range. We're not expecting Jlo to give us ballads,
although she insists she tries. And that's at this point.
She can afford to put out her own work. She
can put out whatever she wants, you know, But that's
if you can afford to.

Speaker 4 (11:10):
Make it, then you make it.

Speaker 2 (11:11):
Yes, And I mean that's the whole TikTok thing is, well, now,
everybody can make something, so why not make it? Even
if it's trash And there's plenty of trash on TikTok,
but that doesn't stop people from watching it and making
it go viral. Yeah, Jlo knows she's gonna put something
out and people are gonna talk about it. It doesn't
really matter if they like it or not. They're gonna
talk about it. They're gonna post about it. It's everywhere.

Speaker 4 (11:34):
And it was success.

Speaker 2 (11:35):
I mean in that way, the project This is Me
Now has been successful.

Speaker 3 (11:40):
Yeah, okay, So next.

Speaker 1 (11:41):
People have been accusing her of being delusional, which I
don't agree with. I don't agree that she's delusional. I
also don't like that term. But I think that Jlo
is gonna do what she wants because she's earned it,
because she can, because she can. So if that's what
you want to call being delusional, I guess, like maybe
be hardworking, maybe persistent, maybe I don't know, has been

(12:03):
able to stay in the industry for thirty plus years, Like, sure,
that's delusional.

Speaker 4 (12:09):
Yeah, it's funny.

Speaker 2 (12:11):
Too, because I notice so Delulu is the Salulu sometimes.

Speaker 1 (12:17):
Right, Yes, there's that like repositioning of it, right.

Speaker 2 (12:21):
Yeah, we love Delulu, you know if it's like, oh, like,
I'm so Delulu, I think that I can do this.
I think I can do that. This is so cute
of me. I'm manifesting or making it happen for myself.
But when j Lo is like funding her own movie,
she's not asking you guys for anything, right. First of all,
she's not asking us to like contribute to her gofund

(12:41):
me or whatever to make this is Me now a
love story. She's like she's putting up her own dollars.
You know, that's not really delusional. That's just she's where
she can afford to fund her own projects. Yeah, there's
nothing delusional about that.

Speaker 1 (12:56):
I'm with you, okay, next quote, leave the Bronx alone.
I saw that one a lot, so y'all have probably
seen this clip by now, but it's from Vogue seventy
three questions. They asked Jalo seventy three questions, and one
of them is her bodega order. Right now, I am
not from New York. I'm not from these coasts. I
don't I'm not too familiar with the bodega orders. I

(13:17):
know here and there chatter, especially listening to famously the
Bodega Boys, right, one of our favorite podcasts.

Speaker 5 (13:22):
Rip.

Speaker 3 (13:25):
We're still sad about the Bodego Boys, yep.

Speaker 1 (13:28):
But anyway, so people were clowning on her her bodego order,
and you know, I just like, again, I have no
authority whether what a vodega order should be, but I
will say that this woman is in her fifties and
the bodego order now is probably not the Woodega order
from back then in the eighties.

Speaker 2 (13:47):
I would imagine, are you guys serving the same exact
food since the eighties? Nothing has changed, right, nothing has changed.
The menu has stayed the same. How many is that
forty years?

Speaker 3 (13:59):
Yeah, that's a long time.

Speaker 4 (14:01):
That's a lot.

Speaker 3 (14:02):
That's a long time.

Speaker 1 (14:03):
And then people have been saying, like, leave the bronx alone,
like you're a menace.

Speaker 2 (14:07):
Right, I mean, it's oh, oh, so and so got
famous and forgot where they came from and just left
their hometown and never turned back and never returned and
never claims their hometown and they're such fakers. But again,
this woman has been so consistent. This is just literally
where she's from.

Speaker 4 (14:26):
Right, what do you want? What do you want? What
do you want?

Speaker 2 (14:28):
You want her to like, Oh, she's gonna claim another hometown. Yes,
now she's Jlo from Cleveland, Like, what do you want?

Speaker 4 (14:35):
Will that make you happier?

Speaker 2 (14:36):
I just think that this reminds me of when Anne
Hathaway won an Oscar for Le Miz and it's somehow
ignited a couple of years of people hating Anne Hathaway hard. Yeah,
for no apparent reason. Oh, she's cringe, it's too much.
It's the people are so sensitive about like women doing

(14:59):
anything at all.

Speaker 1 (15:00):
People also criticize her Spanish, and I think, again, that's tired.

Speaker 3 (15:05):
We hate it.

Speaker 1 (15:05):
It's boring, it's old. She's from New York. You know
she's Puerto Rican. She's from New York. Her Spanish is
not perfect that it's okay. And something that really grinds
my gears is when people are like, oh, Ben speaks
better Spanish than she does.

Speaker 2 (15:20):
And if you've ever spent any time in New York City,
you know that there are millions of Puerto Ricans and
a lot of them don't speak Spanish very common. It's
like Chicanos in southern California or in the American Southwest.
Puerto Ricans have been in the States forever, multi generational.
There are Bronx Puerto Ricans whose grandmothers were born in

(15:42):
the Bronx who've never been to the island and who
don't speak Spanish. It's super duper, duper duper common. I
cannot stress enough how normal it is, right and like,
not weird and not out of the ordinary.

Speaker 4 (15:56):
It's part of the history.

Speaker 2 (15:57):
It's part of the very identity, the whole New York
freak and identity.

Speaker 4 (16:00):
That's part of it.

Speaker 2 (16:02):
Speaking Spanglish, speaking New York Spanglish specifically, but not necessarily,
speaking fluent Spanish.

Speaker 4 (16:10):
Yeah, typical.

Speaker 2 (16:11):
Yeah, actually, very mundane, banal, you know, boring even to
talk about.

Speaker 1 (16:18):
Like, come on, okay, So before we get into the
projects themselves, we're going to go on a quick break
and we're back. So there are three projects actually that
Jalo released in.

Speaker 3 (16:31):
The last couple of months. Busy, she's been busy.

Speaker 1 (16:33):
So the first one is This is Me Now, the
album that is also accompanied with a tour. And then
This is Me Now the musical experience, not a music video,
it's not a music film.

Speaker 3 (16:45):
It's a musical experience of sorts.

Speaker 1 (16:48):
And then there's the Greatest Love Story Ever Told, which
is a documentary behind the scenes of the making of
This Is Me.

Speaker 3 (16:55):
Now, The Musical Experience.

Speaker 4 (16:57):
I love it. Just cameras on cameras on cameras on cameras.

Speaker 2 (17:03):
It's very meta, it's very meta, it's very funny, and
so let's talk about it.

Speaker 4 (17:09):
I watched This Is.

Speaker 2 (17:10):
Me Now The Musical Experience, Yes, and I texted Yosa
and I was like, have you seen this as Me Now?
Because I think it's kind of camp and I like,
kind of am loving it. I was highly entertained. I
thought it was weird. I thought it was interesting. Every
little scenario built around a song was like super different,

(17:31):
each one very different than the last. And I can
totally see this coming from the mind of j Lo. Yeah,
you know, and she was being experimental and she got
like some really great iconic actors to be in it.
I know, everybody's like sharing about the actors that said no,
but like Keiki Palmer was in it.

Speaker 1 (17:50):
Sofia Vigata was in it, Jane Fonda was in it,
Post Malone was in it.

Speaker 3 (17:55):
Like tons of.

Speaker 2 (17:56):
People, tons of people who are incredible and very talented
and again icons in their own right. So you know,
of course people said no, but that's true of any
film project.

Speaker 4 (18:05):
People are gonna say no. But a lot of people
also said yes.

Speaker 3 (18:09):
Yeah. I actually I agree with you.

Speaker 1 (18:11):
I went in with low expectations because of the chatter,
and Mala actually told me I think you're gonna love it,
And so I've of course watched it in preparation of
making this episode, and I in fact did love it.
I think that comments that it made no sense actually
make no sense. There's a storyline, there was a story arc,

(18:34):
there was a beginning, middle end. Yes it was campy, Yes,
it was kind of futuristic. There were like elements of
sci fi. I feel like with the opening, they're working
at a giant heart factory and it stops working. Okay, metaphor, Like,
I actually thought that was pretty smart. I mean a
little on the nose, but like, have you seen a.

Speaker 3 (18:54):
Heart factory before?

Speaker 1 (18:55):
I haven't, not me, not me, you know, a little
like kind of literal, but all also like for Jlo
and the lover girl that she is, I think that
it made sense.

Speaker 2 (19:05):
Yeah, and it was thematically very consistent. I mean, I
love that she had herself getting married. There was a
whole wedding scene and song.

Speaker 1 (19:13):
Yeah, and I loved that in the film, it reflects
three marriages and the grooms are rotating, like you look,
in one scene it's one groom, and the next split
second it's another groom, and so on, right until you
get to the third. And I thought that there's actually
a level of self awareness from Jlo as a producer

(19:34):
and writer, because she knows, yes, I've been married three times. Yes,
this is all everyone talks about, but like, there's also
so much.

Speaker 3 (19:41):
More to me than my marriages and my relationships.

Speaker 2 (19:44):
Yeah, she I think she's not afraid to like poke
fun at herself.

Speaker 1 (19:48):
Yeah, I agree, And there were a couple quotes that
I pulled because I thought they were so funny, like
at the wedding scene, her friends that are there that
are like, I told you she couldn't be alone, like
because she's getting married again, yes, and then it's raining,
and then someone goes, I bet you think she thinks
the rain is a good sign. And again, like more
poking fun of herself when she when she throws the bouquet,

(20:10):
they're like, don't catch it, it's cursed. Like there is
a level of self awareness, and I agree, like willingness
to poke fun at herself.

Speaker 2 (20:19):
Now, I will say, did I love the Dancing in
the Rain sequence? Jlo is committed to dancing with that
cane every chance she gets. I don't know, it's like
her thing. That one wasn't my favorite. I will agree
with some of the criticism on that singing in the
Rain kind of homage dance sequence, Like she went all out,

(20:41):
and I have to appreciate that, Like there's so much
work that gets put out that is so bare bones,
bare minimum, like it seems like there's almost no creativity
put into it. I do appreciate when somebody just throws
everything into the pot, right, you know, like give us something,
give us everything.

Speaker 3 (21:00):
She gave us everything and why not?

Speaker 4 (21:02):
Yeah, but that's her, it's her maximalism, yes, And.

Speaker 1 (21:06):
You know, towards the end, she has this like scene
with her younger self, and I think that if any
other artist had done it, I think that that would
have been praised. Actually, like I haven't heard anybody talk
about the inner child younger self scene right right, And
I thought, oh, that was actually really a really sweet,
beautiful moment where she's addressing her younger self, and her

(21:28):
younger self is like you love everybody else but me, right,
And I'm like, yes, tell like tell her like speak
on that, you know, and again like I think people
just went in knowing like people went in with the
decision that it was going to be bad, right and
didn't really give it room to like get good.

Speaker 2 (21:46):
No, when you're committed to hating something before you even
take it in, like that's what you're gonna get is hate,
and you know, if you're committed to that, then that's
what you've chosen to be committed to. But you could
have just been entertained by something campy, right and maximalist.
I will also say, all your favorite pop stars, all
your favorite girly pops, they're gonna become old.

Speaker 4 (22:08):
Ladies, yep.

Speaker 2 (22:10):
And you know what, like we hope that they're able
to maintain their essence and their vibe and their look,
like that would be a lovely thing for them. Actually,
I mean, Dolly Parton still dresses like she's been dressing
for decades. She's got the big tits and the big
wigs and the big makeup.

Speaker 4 (22:30):
She's keeping it. It's not going anywhere.

Speaker 2 (22:33):
Madonna is still voguing to this day. Yeah, she's on
tour right now wearing no pants, you know, decades later,
share her face has not moved.

Speaker 6 (22:47):
You know.

Speaker 7 (22:48):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (22:48):
I mean it speaks larger to how we hate when
women age and they do it publicly, you know, because
if Jayla was aging quietly in her home, people would
be okay with that. But because maybe she's not relevant
anymore and has the courage to actually make new shit,
oh we're gonna hate on it.

Speaker 4 (23:07):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (23:07):
And I also think, like, if you think it's bad, cool, like,
let people make bad art too. Like, I think that's
where my biggest takeaway after watching it is, like, I
think we are actually lacking in art criticism right now
part of the journalism layoffs, yes, and two, Like people

(23:28):
also don't let others critique things. I see that a
lot with like Taylor Swift and even Beyonce, where if
there's a valid criticism.

Speaker 3 (23:37):
Then the fans are upset.

Speaker 1 (23:38):
Right, we don't let things be criticized anymore for the
sake of making art and culture better. And we're at
this point where it's either high praise for the artists
and what they make or hatred for the person.

Speaker 3 (23:51):
Yes not Oh, this was bad art.

Speaker 1 (23:54):
I'm gonna critique the art and this is these are
the reasons that I think it's bad. It's oh, I'm
gonna shit on this person because what they made was bad.
So they're within that they're bad too.

Speaker 4 (24:04):
Totally.

Speaker 2 (24:05):
Yeah, the chatter around Jlo is really not about the
work that she's put out. And if she was super irrelevant,
Amazon Prime would not be would not have her movie
on their platform, and like promoting it on the platform.

Speaker 4 (24:21):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (24:22):
It's just fascinating. Also, people have brought up things like, now,
could Jlo have made better creative choices and better strategic
choices over the course of her career?

Speaker 4 (24:35):
Yes?

Speaker 2 (24:35):
For example, did I think that she was the right
person to do that Motown tribute?

Speaker 4 (24:40):
No?

Speaker 3 (24:41):
Yeah, there are times where Jalo needs to say no.

Speaker 4 (24:43):
She needs to say no. She doesn't know how to
say no.

Speaker 7 (24:45):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (24:46):
Should she have done the Celia Gruz performance?

Speaker 4 (24:49):
Probably not.

Speaker 3 (24:50):
Did she kill the dancing Yes? Should she have done it?

Speaker 7 (24:53):
No?

Speaker 4 (24:55):
She's not a vocalist, cely your cruise was a vocalist.

Speaker 2 (24:59):
But also who who's off again again offering the jobs?

Speaker 3 (25:03):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (25:03):
Part of it is like, yes, Jaylo, you need to
say no to things, but also like, why are y'all
offering her things that you know she shouldn't be the
one doing them. She's not, that's not her And then
you're making people mad then rightfully.

Speaker 2 (25:15):
So there's other talented artists out there. There could have
been a breakout moment for somebody in the Celia tribute,
in the Motown tribute. Who's offering the gigs? Who's offering
the jobs? And you know, sometimes an opportunity is not
always a good idea. Yeah, you know, we say no
to things. You have to learn to weigh, right, what

(25:36):
is going to be the outcome of this decision? You know,
if it's going to get me paid, okay, that's one thing,
But now my name is attached to this job.

Speaker 4 (25:44):
Now this is in my.

Speaker 2 (25:46):
Portfolio, and do I necessarily want it to be forever?

Speaker 7 (25:50):
Yes?

Speaker 2 (25:50):
Like what's the backlash going to be? And I don't
know that Jlo has has kind of flexed that decision
making muscle to my knowledge.

Speaker 1 (25:58):
That we know of that we know of, yeah, yeah,
because you know, even I think then the decision to
release the documentary after this is me Now, I mean
I watched the documentary and I liked it. Also and
I think it gave me more perspective, and I actually
walked away thinking Jalo is actually more self aware than
people give her credit for. People are like, she's a narcissist,

(26:19):
which again, y'all don't know what that word means.

Speaker 3 (26:22):
And now y'all are listeners the people.

Speaker 1 (26:24):
Online right, like y'all do not know what that means.
I know our listeners know what that means, but the
people online that use it so freely, like y'all, don't
know what that means. I think that what I really
appreciated about the film or the documentary is that she
had this scene where she's like nobody's waiting on a
Jlo album. It's like she knows her place in the

(26:45):
industry right now, like she knows she's not climbing, like
she's not number one, Like she's not landing on the
number one charts anymore. And I think that we should
appreciate an artist of her caliber, meaning like of her
of the decades that she's been an artist putting out
art because they want to. Yeah, because she's in love.

(27:06):
She's back with Ben Affleck, she married him, so she's inspired.
She's inspired, and she wants to put all of her
love into this art and release it for the world,
whether they like it or not.

Speaker 3 (27:19):
She wants to do it for the sake of the art.

Speaker 1 (27:21):
Again, whether that's good or bad, whether it's good or
bad art that it's like up for interpretation.

Speaker 3 (27:26):
But I think that we should respect that she put
out art.

Speaker 2 (27:30):
You know, point blank perd Yeah, and you know what,
brain blast. She loves to work with her lovers.

Speaker 4 (27:37):
She does.

Speaker 2 (27:38):
She she did a show with Mark Anthony. She did
it with Mark Anthony. She was performing with Marc Anthony Casper.
She met him what while dancing on tour. He was
one of her dancers, Ben Like she's worked with him before.
She wanted to work with him again. She loves to
co create with her husbands. Yep, that's her thing.

Speaker 3 (27:58):
It is.

Speaker 2 (27:58):
This is what she does, like you said, when she's
in love. This is what we can expect.

Speaker 1 (28:02):
Mm hmm.

Speaker 4 (28:03):
This is just her.

Speaker 3 (28:05):
This is her thing. This is her thing.

Speaker 7 (28:06):
Now.

Speaker 2 (28:07):
I hope that in the future, like Jlo could also
be and maybe she's like doing this somewhere and we're
not seeing it, But like Jlo, maybe could win a
little more public favor or kind of get some heat
off of her Maybe if she started investing in like
the next generation of artists, right, like Who's up next?

Speaker 1 (28:27):
She does have her production company, and she does have
some type of fund I remember she talked about that
in her last documentary Oh Okay Okay, and where she
talks about like funding like the next generation of filmmakers actresses.

Speaker 3 (28:42):
I don't remember.

Speaker 1 (28:42):
Entirely, right, but I do think that she does that,
but it's not as public, right, and I think there is.

Speaker 3 (28:49):
I do would love for Jelo. I agree with you.
I would love for Jlo to with.

Speaker 1 (28:53):
Her production company cast new talent, find new talent. But
I think there's also something to be said of a
woman of her age, she's fifty four casting herself as
the lead, because we all know how Hollywood is. You
get to a certain age, you're not the lead anymore.
So I hope that she does both. I hope that
she's able to find that balance of like, yes, I'm

(29:14):
still going to be the lead, and yes I'm also
going to fund and find new talent. We're going to
go on a quick break and we'll be discussing j
Lo and what's.

Speaker 3 (29:25):
Happening right now? Where's the hatred coming from?

Speaker 1 (29:27):
So stay tuned we'll be right back.

Speaker 3 (29:31):
Okay, look someone is.

Speaker 1 (29:32):
We're so excited to have the incredible, talented academic, scholar,
writer thinker Jillian Ernandez with us today. Welcome Jillian, say
hi to our listeners.

Speaker 7 (29:44):
Please hi, lookis, and thank you so much for having me.
I'm a huge fan of y'all. I'm so excited to
chat with you all today.

Speaker 2 (29:54):
Thank you so much for taking the time to come
on look at Dora to talk about what is really
a super duper scalding hot topic right now.

Speaker 4 (30:03):
And it's just like the Hate j Lo Hour, It's.

Speaker 7 (30:07):
Been sort of out of left field as far as
I'm concerned. I'm not really sure what is feeding it,
but it just has me I think asking a lot
of questions which drive a lot of my work, which is,
how are Latinas consumed in the cultural space? What representations

(30:28):
are the ones that get the most attention? And usually
it's very negative attention, you know. I think that in
many ways j Loo is in this moment of trying
to take control of her narrative, and I think she's
being punished for that. And I think partly it's because
it's almost like her authoring her own movie, her own documentary,

(30:52):
you know, revisiting this album from many years back. I
think is a way of her just showing the culture that,
like she can take control and she can author her
own representation and her own narrative. And I think that
that's not something that Latinas are allowed to do. I mean,

(31:13):
I think we see that over and over again with
the tropes that we're supposed to perform, over and over again.
And I think that Jlo I don't even think she's
trying to do it intentionally, Like I don't think she
has like this larger like project, like radical project in mind,
but I do think that she is flexing a kind

(31:37):
of cultural power, and I think that's partly what's feeding it,
because it's almost like, oh, we're going to put you
back in your place, like, don't think that you can
actually do this, We're just gonna mock you. And a
lot of my work also looked at the mockery that
Latina is, particularly working class Latina's face. And granted, you know,

(31:57):
the conversation aroun Jaelo's not about a working class Latina,
but there is a way in which, like when she arrived,
like she was a fly girl, right and like living
color at that time was very much an aesthetic of
the street of like working class black and LATINX communities
and hip hop. So I feel like there's an aspect

(32:19):
to it that's also one like we hate you because
you're rich and privileged. But the particular way in which
she's being mocked reminds me a lot about the way
that working class people are mocked. So there's like this,
it's like the math isn't mathing to me in certain ways.

Speaker 2 (32:35):
Yeah, yeah, just jumping right into it. Thank you so
much for laying that out for us. Where did you
start to notice this like current campaign of like really
folks on TikTok in particular, like putting a lot of
like videos, time, a lot of language, a lot of energy,
a lot of anger, really putting that out there into

(32:57):
the digital space and directing it towards one for Lopez.

Speaker 7 (33:01):
My daughter actually, who is a twenty something and you know,
basically is on TikTok all the time, and she was
like showing me some of them, and I was so confused,
Like I just didn't understand like why all of a
sudden she was the subject of like so much vitriol,
especially because overall she's been someone who, despite her identity

(33:25):
as Puerto Rican, Latina, et cetera, has like entered the
cultural sphere in a pretty like sanitized, acceptable type of way.
Like she hasn't really done anything so wild where you know,
she's been canceled. So to see her be canceled for
things that, like I think like are fair to maybe
make fun of, Like the whole like gym scene, it's funny,

(33:47):
like if you want a trip on on that, I
feel like that's fair game. It was funny, But the
kind of vitriol to me seems like fed by misogyny
and misogyny that can be like perpetrated by other women, right,
I'm not just talking about men necessarily, And also a
lot of folks who don't appear to be folks of
color going in on her, which also to me is

(34:11):
very problematic. So I was frankly surprised. It seemed very
out of left field, except for the fact that she
had been like releasing stuff, but the particular kind of
like venom of it all, I was very confused by.

Speaker 1 (34:26):
Yeah, I love that you brought that up, because I
was wondering if there is any correlation between Jlo being
like the only one for so long, like in the
public eye and in film and TV and in music.
For many years, she was like the only Latina, the
only pop star. And now the Latinos are considered like mainstream,
like or Latino music or quote Latin music is considered mainstream.

(34:51):
I wonder if there's like a pushback of like and
rejection of like Jlo because she's like outdated or not
relevant anymore.

Speaker 7 (35:02):
No, absolutely, I think I think there's like an ageist
component to it. Absolutely, And I think that also feeds
into some of the discourse and just some of the
mockery around her. And I think, you know, it's interesting
because in like her super Bowl performance from a few
years ago, like she was like she performed with bad

(35:24):
Bunny and Shakia, and I think was really trying to
like reinsert or like find a place in the cultural
landscape right now. I don't think she's fully succeeded. I
also think that she might overestimate how interested we are
in Ben Affleck. I don't think many of us care
or are interested in Homie, like not interested, not interested.

(35:46):
I do think there's agism, and I don't know, like
I think there's just also a little bit of like
just plain old ways in which, like tired ways in
which I think LATINX people in general can be made
fun of, and like nobody feels a way about it,
Like I don't think there's been a sufficient cultural conversation

(36:09):
yet around like how we are targets of mockery, and
I think often for us to enter the cultural landscape,
like we need to be open to that kind of mockery.
Like I think sometimes that's the price that we pay
for visibility, and that's not necessarily the same thing that
like younger people like Carol g or a Bad Bunny

(36:31):
are navigating, but they are also not Jlo's, Like they're
not like blockbuster movie celebrities like Jalo's a totally different level.
Like even as let's say Bad Bunny is like a
huge cultural star, Jlo just took it to a totally
different level. And I don't think there's anyone LATINX like
maybe Ricky Martin and still not even who is at

(36:54):
that same level. And so I think it's also unfortunately
like part of the cost for what she has achieved
in many ways, And I do think it's a way
of like a generation telling an elder and not like
a gentle and generous way, like we don't care about you.

(37:14):
We think you're a joke. Right, So I really wonder
about like how she's processing it all, and like really
thinking about it in terms of like how she moves
forward from it. But it's really intense, Like even in
me watching it. I've never been like the biggest Jlo
fan myself. I liked her in the in the Living
Color days, but I always like, my mom is Perderriican.

(37:37):
My mom like lives, rides dies for Jlo, and so
I see like what her representation of firms in my
mother who is from the Bronx, And so I've always
respected that. I'm like, whether whether I like her aesthetic
or singing or acting doesn't really matter, Like I respect
Jaelo for like what she still represents in the culture.

(37:57):
So to me, it's problematic, this level of visu all,
it's problematic.

Speaker 4 (38:03):
We definitely agree.

Speaker 2 (38:05):
We also at the same time, we can we can
admit Jlo has had some missteps over the years. Sure,
for sure, we've talked about like she should have said
no to the Motown tribute, you know, like.

Speaker 4 (38:17):
You should have said no.

Speaker 2 (38:18):
Like she's got to learn to say no to some
things you can pass. Yeah, yeah, And I'm wondering, and
in watching the documentary and the movie this is me now,
and like the behind the scenes as well, she says
very plainly, like nobody's waiting for the next Jlo album.
Like nobody, She's very aware, and she she makes this

(38:40):
other statement about how no one wants to pay for this, Well,
I guess I'll pay for it, and she can, so
she does. And I think she knows like people are
not waiting in line to like get tickets to watch
her perform, or waiting for the next album to drop.

Speaker 4 (38:56):
They're not, they're not.

Speaker 2 (38:57):
The fan base is an older fan base now, and
the fan base is chilling, calm, you know, totally. And
I'm curious about your thoughts on somebody like Jlo creating
just for the sake of creating because she can and
so she will. And why does that because this is
reflected in a lot of the commentary. Nobody asked for
this Jaylo, Nobody asked for this movie, nobody asked for

(39:20):
this song, nobody, And she knows nobody's asking for it,
but she's making it anyways.

Speaker 4 (39:25):
So I guess your thoughts on that, like the creation
just because she wants to.

Speaker 7 (39:30):
Yeah, I think, I think And again I don't think
it's political on purpose, but I do think it's political,
I really do. I think I think that so many
Like if you if you think about so many iconic
Latina like visual artists or performers, right, I think back
to like this Cuban artist did this performance in the

(39:52):
nineties called Better When Dead that was about how so
many iconic latina as we know after their dead. So
she's thinking of Freedom College, she's thinking of Na Mendez
that she's thinking about so one. So many Latinas only
gain like cultural capital or crossover after they're gone. There's
one and so like thinking with that perspective around like

(40:17):
the literal like price of Latinas being integrated into the
US public sphere, which means, oh, we might value you
after you're no longer in existence. Right, So to me,
the politics is like a living Latina pop star who's like,

(40:37):
I know no one is asking for this, but I
have the money and I'm gonna do it anyway because
like to the people who say no one asks for it,
Jalo's also like then, like you don't need to watch it, babes.

Speaker 4 (40:48):
You know what I mean, Like, then you don't you don't.

Speaker 7 (40:52):
Need to engage with it. And I think that is
definitely you know, something that I think is important. And
like I haven't watched any of these things yet, They're
not high on my priority lift. But the same time,
like I respect that, and I and I just think
it's a flex because also you know, and you all

(41:15):
know too as creators, like part of creating a thing
is like you often need resources, and when you appeal
to like a nonprofit or a foundation or whoever for money,
you know that that comes with some kind of compromise,
like something either you're going to use ads or you're
gonna like write a little report about how you change

(41:35):
the world because of these like two all the dollars
you got whatever it is so for her to be
able to be like I want to do this and
I can just do it. I think it's great and
I and I wish that that kind of cultural freedom
was available to all kinds of LATINX artists, but it's
available to her, and that's what she decided to do

(41:57):
with it. But like I said earlier, like I think
that's partly what bothers people, even if they don't realize it.
I think there's a way in which that kind of
ability and resource is just seen almost like an upfront
for someone who came from where she came from, which
I think also plays into the questioning of like where

(42:17):
she came from, because that's also just seems like people
are doing the most when it comes to that too.

Speaker 1 (42:24):
Yeah, we touched on this where it's like you can
never really win in these scenarios where let's say you
reach some type of like social mobility, maybe not even
a Jelo status, but just some type of upward mobility,
and it's like, oh, you forgot where you came from.
But then if you wrap it too hard, it's like,
well you're not even from there anymore, like let it go.

Speaker 3 (42:44):
So it's like, well, which one is it?

Speaker 7 (42:47):
Exactly exactly? And I think, you know, it's also it's
like an impossible position to be in because like, even
if it's not hitting, like she is trying to be relatable,
like I don't know, because people would hate her too.
And she was like, well, I'm just a rich bitch.

Speaker 3 (43:03):
Now, yep, you're flaunting your wealth.

Speaker 7 (43:07):
Exactly, then it's gonna be like oh, like she thinks
she's all that, so it's like you can't win for losing,
and you know, I don't I don't see I don't
see the same kind of standards being applied to other artists,
you know, other LATINX artists, Like no one is really

(43:29):
asking the same kinds of questions or like having the
same expectations. I also think it's like what we expect
from Latinas in particular too, It's like you have to
be everything, yeah, and we have to like you, and
you have to do it in the way that you want.
And she's also aging, you know, and I think there's
a certain vulnerability that I think she allowed herself. And

(43:52):
I feel bad because in opening herself up like that,
and I'm not blaming her for doing that at all,
like for the way people are responding, but it's like
this this culture just doesn't know what to do with
that kind of vulnerability, like especially from an aging Latina,
Like unfortunately they just went in. It's like she gave

(44:13):
this opening and it just has created like so much
vitriol towards her. So and people are making money off
of it, Like let's also be clear that it's producing money,
like as much as folks are hating on her. It's like, well,
you you're you're also like creating more buzz around her

(44:36):
and also like making money as a result too, So
like you're also participating in the very same thing that
you appear to be critiquing as well.

Speaker 2 (44:45):
Totally, and I really appreciate that you bring up that
this sort of history around Latina popstar icons who pass
away at a young age, and we definitely like turn
them into like saints basically literally, oh literally.

Speaker 7 (45:03):
We.

Speaker 4 (45:05):
Venerate them.

Speaker 2 (45:05):
We literally put them on candles and T shirts, and
we dedicate drag nights and events and parties and lookalike contests,
Like we're very obsessed with them. But if Selina Kinthenia
was still alive, we would hate her so hard for
her stances on Trump or Roe v. Wade or Palestine
or gun control guaranteed guaranteed, Like we actually are not

(45:28):
prepared to accept the fullness of like a woman in
all three sixty degrees, Like we love young, sparkly, entertaining
and then leave it there. But once we're talking about
a fully formed person with their own ideas, whether we
agree with them or not, whether we are on the
same page or we like them, like I Jenny Rivera.

(45:51):
I mean, I don't think that we would be like
clinging to her as such like an icon if she
were still alive and like expressing opinions about the state
of the you know, totally.

Speaker 7 (46:03):
Totally especially not now, like with the way social media is. No,
I completely agree with you and and and you know
and honestly too, like even while those women were alive,
like they still were so judged and like given hell
like in so many different ways. Right then they passed
and we're like, oh my god, like you're amazing, but

(46:25):
you're totally right, You're totally totally right. Part of that
is we don't know what to do with a fully
formed Latina woman in the cultural sphere, and we we
only know how to operate in the discourse of iconicity,
which in and of itself is dangerous and dehumanizing. And

(46:47):
like I participate in it too, like I have I
have my bad Bunny Candle. I mean he's not dead yet,
but whatever, even though he's he's for other reasons. But
you know, I mean I participate in that kind of
fan icnicity. But at the same time, like I always
have in my mind, like this is a person right,

(47:09):
this is like a human being. But with j Lo
that has completely been you know, thrown out the window.
Like I saw that one TikTok where like this one
young woman was like I went to the same school
as you. Yeah, you know it's privileged. Just like, yeah, homie,
but like what decade was that? Because New York from
two three decades back is a completely different animal than

(47:32):
it now. And so like it's like I went to
a Catholic school and my family was definitely working class.
Like it's not mutually exclusive, right, Like a lot of families,
working class families like make a sacrifice to send their
kids to Catholic school, but like I still lived a

(47:52):
working class existence, so I don't like I yeah, go ahead,
go ahead.

Speaker 1 (47:57):
And the Catholic schools are cheaper than the private school.
Like this isn't like a prep school. This isn't like
a private like a magnet school. It's like the Catholic
schools are considered cheaper than like not to say they're cheap,
because that's relative, but it's still like on that line,
on that spectrum of like how expensive schooling is, it's
kind of in the middle. So yeah, like some families

(48:18):
can make that sacrifice to send their kids to Catholic school.

Speaker 7 (48:21):
Yeah, like a bunch of the other kids. I went
with some upper class kids, and I went with kids
that were in the same kind of socioeconomic situation as
my family. And so I don't know, like I've just
felt some type of way about that too, Like Okay,
so now you know we're going to make these particular
claims around her class background. And then and then also
like you know, people still making fun of her for

(48:43):
like not speaking Spanish in a certain way, like are
we still doing that?

Speaker 3 (48:47):
Like yeah, some of it too is just.

Speaker 7 (48:49):
Like cheesy and tired, Like these critiques are embarrassing some
of them in and of themselves, you know what I mean.

Speaker 2 (48:55):
Yeah, And on another side of things, Cardi b got
a lot of negativity, a lot of nastiness thrown her
way because she used to dance.

Speaker 4 (49:04):
You know, she was an exotic dancer. She was a stripper.

Speaker 2 (49:07):
So you know, this is another Latino from the Bronx
who they were in a future film together, hustlers, you know,
coming up in the music industry. I see Carti, I mean,
Carti's making movies and selling hit records and she's killing it.
She's got I think, a long way to go to
reach the same sort of like status as Jlo. Like
we were discussing with the breath of projects that Jaylo

(49:30):
has done, but I see a similarity there with both
of them. But on the one hand, so Jlo went
to a Catholic school, we're hating it. CARTI was a stripper,
We're also hating it. So what do Latinos want? Who
do we want? We are so every other word on
TikTok representation, representation, representation.

Speaker 4 (49:54):
What do we want? Who do we want? Who does
it need to be?

Speaker 5 (49:57):
Like?

Speaker 4 (49:57):
Who is the Messiah? Who are we waiting for?

Speaker 7 (50:00):
Exactly? I mean I don't, I don't know, and I
don't think we know because also, like we we've been
so restricted in like what kinds of representations of us
are possible, and then even when they do emerge, like
they're so quickly taken away from us. And I think
particularly for Latinas, like you know, I love y'all so

(50:22):
much for this aspect, and you guys aren't a fictional show.
But to me, it's like, like, let's say I really
love the show broad City, and in my mind, I'm like,
can you imagine if there was like a Latina version
of a broad City, it would never happen. So like
then there's this Pool, which I really loved. It was
very male centered, but like I love the fan characters
like the crazy girlfriend. I live for her, but like

(50:45):
that's gone, right, two seasons gone. So like I don't
think we know, or at least, like when I think
I see something that both as a scholar and a
cultural consumer, I think like, oh, like this feels like
kind of what we're looking for, Like it doesn't last.
So I think I think when you add like gender
politics to Hollywood and the racial politics to Hollywood, I

(51:07):
don't think Latinos know necessarily like what they want. Like
I think in music we're pretty clear, Like I think,
I think the realm of music just has a lot
more like flexibility, and so we're seeing like I think,
a range of different like queer representations or even like
queer masculine representations too, Like there's just much more happening.

(51:29):
But I think when you get to that sort of
like TV movie space, it's just like a bunch of
tired tropes. So I don't know. It's frustrating to me
and even as a scholar, and thinking about audiences and
stuff like it's just I don't I don't know what
our folks want, but more and more like our people

(51:51):
just keep confusing me politically and in many other ways.
So that's a whole other can of warm.

Speaker 3 (51:57):
We know that and we don't know what we want.

Speaker 7 (52:00):
Yeah, yeah, so like it just becomes difficult, you know.
And then imagine like being someone positioned like her where
it's like like who is her audience now? And I
think it might be you know, like Mala you mentioned earlier,
like like people like my mama, you know, and like
and that's all good because they do need something too,
Like my mom is not listening to Cardi B. Like

(52:21):
if it's on, she'll grow to it, but like that's
not you know, She's still she loves Jaalo, she loves
more Anthony. Like that's the space that she's in and
that's valid, you know. So I also think like a
lot of the folks I've been seeing with the critiques
are like younger people, so it's like this isn't even
for you.

Speaker 4 (52:37):
They weren't there.

Speaker 1 (52:38):
It's like the they weren't collective cultural memory, yeah, is
like forgotten because they were too young to they either
weren't alive or like too young to consume it totally.

Speaker 7 (52:48):
And also like let's be let's be like regardless of
your thoughts on Jlo. And I was recently reminded of
this because of like one of those like Vogue Life
and Looks videos that she had recently done.

Speaker 4 (52:59):
Yeah, like the whole hy.

Speaker 7 (53:00):
Two K trend that so many of these folks are
into now. Jlo is mother. Yeah, Jlo is the one
who went to the red carpet with some Brazilian jeans
on and like a sparkly tank top all in white.
Like your esthetic is literally made possible because of Jlo,
like back in the late nineties, early two thousands. But

(53:21):
like that, like she doesn't get the credit for that
at all, but even in terms of fashion and like
so much that we're seeing now, like Jlo has so
much to do with that, but like that aspect of
the conversation is like completely erased.

Speaker 1 (53:36):
Absolutely, Yeah, And I think it it is scary that
the audience can really see you as like this icon
and then there's like this misremembering or yeah, misremembering or
just not even given like the full credit, and then
you're like hated, you know, it's like from icon to

(53:57):
like most hated women on the Internet right now.

Speaker 7 (54:00):
Yeah, and I.

Speaker 1 (54:01):
Think it's really it's alarming, and it should alarm us
that we can get there as a society. We can
go from here to there very quickly, and we forget.

Speaker 2 (54:12):
And not because and not because she's been like raising
money for Donald Trump, not because she like killed someone,
not because she like committed like a horrific crime, but
because she made bad art or it was cringey. She
did something cringey that nobody asked for. And that to
me is like with the spark, whatever ignited this whole

(54:35):
thing was so minimal, honestly totally, but the vitriol is there,
the energy is there.

Speaker 1 (54:42):
Yeah, And I think we talk about that all the
time here on the podcast, and especially you, Maley. You
bring that perspective all the time, is that we will
like tear down women, especially women of color, for like
the most minimal things, but men can go on and
actually do horrific things, and like nobody about to an eye.

Speaker 3 (54:58):
We're still going to stream their music. It's cool, it's.

Speaker 1 (55:01):
Separate the art from the artists, right, But we can't
do that here.

Speaker 7 (55:04):
No, because the standards are so much higher. And then
I think with Latinas too, you have this like extra
on the one hand in the dominant culture, like we
are objects of like service and care, like we're you know,
like nannies and domestic workers or whatever, you know folks

(55:24):
imagine there. But also just like tropes even of like
the mother, like the Latina mother, right, and and like
this idea that like Latinas are available for all kinds
of abuse. And I think that even extends to like
the online discourse. And I think there is a unique

(55:46):
way that that misogyny works for Latinas in particular. And
I do think that in some ways you see that,
you know, with Jalo, And I think even as he
does occupy the space of prige and you know, has
this kind of cultural capital obviously that she's accessing, like

(56:06):
when I hear her talk like I have no question
of like her bronxness or whatever. And I do think
that that does contribute to aspects of like the vitriol too,
Like she still doesn't sound mainstream American, like she's she's
not Taylor Swift, she never will be. She could never

(56:27):
approximate that kind of white femininity. So like whether folks
want to accept it or not. Like when she talks,
she sounds like a new Eurekan to me, And that's
a particular like a new Eurekan is someone who is
emerging from a historical context of disenfranchisement and racist violence

(56:48):
in New York. Like there's no way around that. And
I just don't understand. But I also do, of course,
you know how, like you said, all of it gets
eras it's also because like we don't want to have
the sort of historical conversations or like cultural consciousness raising

(57:09):
conversations around like where does someone like Jalo actually come from,
not just in terms of her actual family or what
school she went to, but the place that she grew
up from right and navigated and even what it meant
to be a part of something like Living Color at
the time that that came out, like that was a
radical show too. So she's been there. She's a product of,

(57:32):
you know, spaces that like really had to struggle no
matter what. Like if you're if you're Puerto Rican, if
you're New Eurekan, like you are a product of colonialism.
You are a product of all kinds of violence. And
so I think that some folks have allowed for her
like star text to sort of eclipse the sort of

(57:54):
longer history that like made her possible to begin with totally.

Speaker 2 (57:59):
I love that. And I also just want to point out,
you know, she was in dance class, you know, like
she was like auditioning and stuff, and I don't know
what people expect from her, like in her backstory, you know,
like as far as her neighborhood and the block. Famously, Yeah,
she was a Catholic school girl and she was in
dance class at the Boys and Girls Club, And that's

(58:20):
why she is where she's at, not because she was
Like I don't know, it's just it's just all very
odd to me. And a final thought that I have
too is do you think that people also are punishing
her culturally because she's been married so many times and
like unabashedly talks about it and like leans into it
because she's married now. But she's a little bit she's

(58:41):
a perpetual bachelorette no matter how many times she's been married.

Speaker 3 (58:44):
She's our Elizabeth Taylor.

Speaker 4 (58:46):
She's our Liz Taylor.

Speaker 3 (58:47):
I've been saying that for years.

Speaker 2 (58:48):
She's our very true, you have been saying that for years.

Speaker 7 (58:51):
She's also a Leo, and as a fellow Leo, you know,
it's like it's a lot, you know, it's just a
lot for us. We can be lot. I do think
that's part of it. And I think like those relationships
have also like always been part of her, like the
larger text around her culturally. So I definitely think there's

(59:12):
a part of that too, of like, oh, like Jalah's
the mess because on the one hand, too, even as
she was was pretty safe, right, she never sort of
did anything too wild. She still for except for those
few years with Mark Anthony, like there still wasn't this
way in which she played like your typical good woman

(59:33):
like marrying blah blah blah, Like she went from person
to person, dated her dancer like she you know, she
did her thing, and in some.

Speaker 6 (59:42):
Ways like that behavior reminds me more of like how
dudes in the industry act to be honest, and she
doesn't really feel too badly about it, And I think that.

Speaker 7 (59:56):
I think that you're right. I do think that also,
even if folks aren't thinking about it, I do think
that's there in the background and sort of contributes to
this overall vitriol towards her too.

Speaker 2 (01:00:07):
Oo.

Speaker 1 (01:00:08):
Thank you so much, Jillian, so much, so much, so
much for us to chew on, so much for us
to think about. And I hope none of our listeners
were in their comments hating on j Lo.

Speaker 2 (01:00:18):
Okay, it's just so hypocritical. Yeah, and talk about corny.
It's really corny.

Speaker 7 (01:00:23):
Yeah, it is corny. It's kind of basic. It's a
little bit basic. We can be a little more nuanced,
and like you said, there's other people doing things that
are actually harming folks out there, so maybe direct your
attention towards that.

Speaker 4 (01:00:37):
Yes, on that note.

Speaker 1 (01:00:38):
Thank you so much, Thank you, Jillian. We appreciate you,
We value your critique.

Speaker 3 (01:00:43):
We love what you had to say.

Speaker 1 (01:00:44):
Thank you so much, Thank you, Bye bye bye. Look
At Radio is executive produced by ViOS FM and Mala Munios.

Speaker 4 (01:00:55):
Stephanie Franco is our producer.

Speaker 3 (01:00:58):
Story editing by.

Speaker 4 (01:00:59):
Me, Creative direction by me Mala.

Speaker 1 (01:01:02):
Look At Radio is a part of iHeartRadio's Michael Dura
podcast network.

Speaker 2 (01:01:06):
You can listen to look At Radio on the iHeartRadio
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Speaker 1 (01:01:11):
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Speaker 2 (01:01:14):
And thank you to our local motives. To our listeners
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Speaker 1 (01:01:19):
Besitos Loca Luni