March 8, 2022 • 28 mins
In the weeks following Jim Duncan's death, conspiracy theories proliferated throughout the Black community in Lancaster. Was his death really about drugs? A woman? His skin color? Many other proposed versions of events seemed equally as implausible as the official narrative—but one scandalous theory came up time and time again, and it was one we could investigate. New episodes coming each Tuesday, through March 16.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Long Shot is a production of McClatchy Studios and I
Heart Radio. Previously on Return Man, it was quote room
capacity to come. We held a capathitor would and we
had people on the house. The attorney said that nobody
would talk period. Not one person wanted to tap a batter.
(00:23):
Polish people know what to say to put fear to
It involves rates the mental state of the person and
a town that was scared to death to say anything.
There are conspiracies in the world, and the Jim Crift
South having a period about that conspiracy might not be wrong.
(00:49):
In the course of researching this story, there was at
least one key voice I hadn't really heard from. It
was about the NFL player that committed suicide in Leicester,
former Lancaster Police Chief Larry Lower. Records from the South
Carolina State Law Enforcement Division show that Lancaster police handled
(01:09):
the investigation into Jim's death themselves. We did lab work
the investigating agency. We did not independently investigate. The Lack
of transparency from Lancaster authorities cost Jim's family closure and
left an information vacuum that has been filled by conspiracy
(01:30):
theories for nearly fifty years. They say he committed suicide,
but basically, almost none of Lancaster's black residents I interviewed
believe Jim died the way police said, including the only
black person who served on the inquest panel. They want
to say, we have the police go on the shot itself,
but I don't believe this. Ship Lower now lives in
(01:52):
Georgia and until recently served on a local school board.
He basically hung up on me when I tried to
reach him by phone. So in the summer I went
to him. I needed to understand why Lancaster police took
the actions they did and where Jim's family was supposed
(02:14):
to go from here. And Brett from the Herald McClatchy
Studios and I Heart Radio. This is return man. I'm
Brett McCormick, and this is Part seven Conspiracy Theories number three.
(02:39):
Richard Berry loving and all of talents versus Virginia. Jim
was a ladies man, no doubt, that was one habit
he never hid. Well, they're nothing man that I could
tell you about what other than he just loved one.
Mr Chief Justice made please Ward, I am Bernard s Cohen.
(03:02):
Virginia stands here today and in this Loving case, for
the first time, tries to find a justification other than
white racial supremacy for the existence of its statute. Jim
died five years after the Loving v. Virginia Supreme Court case.
It struck down interracial marriage bands nationwide. The state is
(03:23):
ignoring the right of Richard and Mildred Loving to wake
up in the morning or to go to sleep at
night knowing that the shirt will not be knocking on
their door or shining a light in their face in
the privacy of their bedroom for illicit cohabitation. But South
Carolina has been on interracial marriage officially lasted until only
(03:46):
Alabama's band lasted longer. Why he was in the pros
and all of the you know, white wired and black
sar black and whatever you know. Butcher then Matt, Jim's
brother Elroy and Elroy's wife Linda. He was dating the
Chief Relics daughter during that Henson. Okay, the guy who's
(04:08):
king think what got involved with his door? That is
the one that shot But do you know her name? No.
I was told repeatedly that Jim was involved with one
of Red Henson's daughters. They're white, and the theory is
that Jim a black man somehow died in the police
station because of that. That's that's that's that was what
(04:31):
we were saying. Something by the daughter. I didn't even
know the young lady. Floyd White was one of Jim's
high school coaches, and I can imagine that. You know,
football player nationwide black, you know he comes back home.
You know their own song. There's not gonna louder, They're
not gonna I heard some version of this theory many
(04:52):
different times over the past three years and did not
like to think that his white doughter was having a
round in the car where Jim Lucia Duck Lancaster native
Michael Bogan attended Bar Street School a few years after Duncan,
and for whatever reason, Jim Duncan received a message to
(05:12):
come to the police department. After he gathered to police department,
Jim Duncan was did you know uh Red Hinson's daughter?
I mean, did you know her name? I did not
know her name? Matter that I never seen. You showed
me a picture for that, now, I cook. That tell
(05:33):
you one way a man on the gift taxis doing.
No one could identify which daughter Jim might have been
involved with, and as conspiracy theories go. It combines a
few familiar threads. It involves an overprotective father, which has
been a dramatic staple forever. But at the same time,
(05:54):
a killing like that was hardly without precedent. As just
one example during Jim's lifetime, the alleged crime of a
black man flirting with a white woman was exactly what
led to the death of Emmett Till in Mississippi, one
of the most gruesome hate crimes of the twentieth century.
My baby was taken from his uncle's home and my
aunt's home, and I found out about at nine thirty
(06:17):
Sunday morning. This is tills mother, Mami Bradley, speaking to reporters.
At the time, I thought it was sufficient to mind
my own business. I didn't realize that everything was my business.
That's the way the people are treated all over the earth.
Was my business. Now I know it, and unless we
can get enforceable love, we might as well just forget everything.
(06:44):
Lieutenant Henson had three daughters. I work at the newspaper
in Rockyoll, South Carolina. Was your dad, Russell Henson, the
police officer from Micasar. Darlene Hopkins is the youngest of
those three daughters. Through all the reading I've been doing,
I haven't found very much information about your dad, and
so I just was trying to find out more about him,
(07:06):
and I had come across your name in his obituary.
And she declined to appear in this podcast, but she
told me she wasn't living in Lancaster when Jim died.
In our call, she said I might get more information
from her older sister who was in town when it happened. Okay,
so you weren't living in Lancaster then, got you? Okay?
(07:26):
Barbara Ferguson was Henson's middle daughter. I just wanted to
ask where did you live in Lecaster when it happened?
She spoke to me briefly from her home not far
from Lancaster, though she too declined to lend her voice
to this podcast. Ferguson didn't understand why I would be
looking into the story at all. Uh, just because the
NFL players family still has like a lot of, you know,
(07:48):
in their opinion, unanswered questions about it. And you know,
I think it has a lot of similarities to things
that are going on now. You know, it's an interesting
story too to look at in that regard Forerguson and
I spoke for about fifteen minutes. She told me her
father rarely talked about Jim's death or anything that happened
on the job. For the most part, I think she
(08:10):
was about as friendly as any of us might be
if a reporter called out of the blue basically wondering
if her father had been involved in a murder. I mean,
I just think they think it was out of character
for their relative to have killed himself, So, you know,
I think that's more of the issue than anything. They
don't really have exactly an idea of what else would
(08:31):
have happened. Ferguson told me that by two, she was
in her early thirties and that her sister's recollections were
a little off. She said that when Jim died, she
had already moved away from Lancaster with her husband, and
they already had a family of their own. Ferguson says
she'd never even heard of Jim Duncan before seeing the
news about his death, and and honestly, I didn't I
(08:51):
didn't think you would really know much about it. I
was more wanting to know more about your dad, and
I mean, just what he was like or did he
have a nickname or whatever, you know, making more of
a person instead of just the guy whose gun was used.
The lieutenant was a World War Two Navy veteran and
had been a deacon at his local Baptist church by
(09:15):
nine two. He'd been a member of that local police
department for almost twenty years. No one I spoke with
knew of any incriminating behavior by Henson, and I found
no evidence that he had an adversarial relationship with Jim
or people of color in general. So one of the
conspiracies that I was told by some people I talked
to was that he had a reputation in Lancaster as
(09:40):
somebody that talked to white women a lot, because I
think that there was the the stretch or the leap,
maybe that his death in the police station had something
to do with talking to white women or something like that.
I think I think that was Ferguson told me our
conversation was the first time she'd ever heard that theory,
(10:00):
and that it wasn't worth a second thought. She added
that their other sister, Margaret, is now deceased. Margaret was
alive at the time Jim died, but she was also
living out of state, so, according to Ferguson, known of
Henson's daughters knew Jim, and his death didn't really impact them.
Not long after Jim's death, Hanson resigned from the Lancashire
(10:22):
Police Department without announcing future plans. His obituary said he
went on to become police chief in nearby page Land,
where Jim and Elroy had once hustled pool. When he
left Lancaster, Chief Lauer said of him, quote, He's an
excellent officer, and I certainly wish him the best of
luck in his new work. After my conversations with Henson's daughters,
(10:47):
I can't rule anything out. It's possible Jim had been
involved romantically with a white woman, but at the time,
rural South Carolina was very different from the interconnected world
of today. I can believe Henson's daughters might out of
even heard of Jim during his life, and I feel
confident they weren't involved with Jim or in any way
connected to his death. Okay, well, I really appreciate you
(11:08):
um talking to me, though I know it's sort of
a weird thing to get a call out of the
blue about so, but I also have to wonder if
the incident might have affected Henson and his family more
than Ferguson claimed. Right before we hung up, she insisted, quote,
some things are better left alone. It was just not
that big a deal. We'll be back in a moment.
(11:39):
I don't think Ferguson is alone in that assessment. For
many people in Lancashire at the time, at least many
white people, it was just not that big a deal
for a black man to allegedly walk into his hometown
police station and without saying a word, rip a gun
from lieutenants Holster and shoot himself in the head. It
(12:02):
made me wonder if I had been asking the wrong
question in a small, most lay southern town. What if
there wasn't any sort of cause and effect that makes
sense here? Racism was abundant, but it was just being
a right right on her. From all my research into
Jim's life, my overwriting impression of race relations in nineteen
(12:24):
sixties Lancaster isn't so much a clear list of racist events.
Mostly it's a crushing sense of apathy by white people.
That's not an event, that's a social structure in which
every event unfolds. I thought back to something Alice told
me about her late husband. He had a favorite poem.
(12:45):
M hmm. Interesting. She never knew what it was called
or where he'd found it, but Jim would often repeat
the lines. Let others cheer the winning man. There's one
I hold worthwhile, tis he who does the best he
can then loses with a smile? Is that from something here?
Can you say it again? Have to look it up
(13:06):
and see where're going from. That presumption of losing even
smiling as it happens, fit a dynamic that USC law
professor Seth Stowton has studied that idea of how we
interact with people. It depends on our perception of their
social status, and in the sixties and seventies, a black
(13:28):
man had I think it is fair to say significantly
less social status, certainly compared to a police officer. At
the time, that was an especially fragile state of affairs
in a place like Lancaster. We're constantly making those judgments,
and we're using them to adjust how much deference we
(13:50):
give the other person and how much difference we expect
them to give us. There are some problems that are
particularly acute in the policing context when both people expect
more deference than the other one is giving them. Social
psychologists called this an asymmetric deference norm. The officer might say,
(14:12):
this person should defer to me because I am the authority.
The other person might say, the officer should defer to
me in at least some respect because I am a taxpayer,
or something like that. That's one thing I've always found
so interesting about Jim's returned to Lancaster. In those theories
(14:33):
about Henston's daughters, Well, and it is coming a duncan
a real breath, not because I've seen anything to suggest
they were connected to Jim, but because the belief they
could have been was its own evidence that Jim no
longer fit with Lancaster's deference norms. Well, we know that
they're back in town. As for Force Butcher, I didn't
see him daily, but we knew he was in town
(14:56):
when he was there. Rosie Gilliam is the son of
Sandy Gilliam, Jim's bar Street and Maryland State football coach.
Sandy Gilliam moved his family back to Lancaster in the
early seventies when he left football behind and took a
job at Springs Mill. Today, I think that people might
suggest that there's some I don't know, ill will directed
toward him by the police. And I think then, of
(15:19):
course people thought that, I mean, but there was nothing
that certainly nothing that we could prove. And as kids
that know, our general thought was that there was probably
something that was not right, but it was more of
a fear that you know, makes certain you don't put
yourself in a position where that could happen to you.
(15:41):
Bush Dunton was a Jim Duck. Jim had achieved a
stature that far exceeded even the white authorities in Lancaster,
and those authorities knew it. Even if he wasn't brazen
enough to approach a white officer's daughter, the mere fact
that he could have was richly symbolic. The best thing
(16:01):
that could have happened would have been him not to
be there in the first place. Rosie Gilliam was a
teenager when Jim died and still looked up to the
Super Bowl champ Why was he a in Lancaster and
be what was he at the police depart And you
know it had either one of those things been a no,
and maybe he'd be a laugh today. So in the
(16:22):
police station, whether Jim talked about a love affair or
anything else. His main offense was already committed simply by
being there all the world. What if the question isn't
what happened, but how it happened. The potential for conflict
comes up when the officer may not just be lack
(16:44):
of deference as something that is upsetting they maybe it
is something that requires a physical response. Here's USC law
professor Seth Stowton. I can think of no better example
than the sandral Land traffic sho man. Well, it takes
how we told a prest stop is you didn't fail.
You failed to signal your lane change. You get you
driving blace in terms with you. After an initial interaction,
(17:06):
the officer walked back to his car, wrote out what
we later learned as a warning ticket, walked back up
to Sandra Bland's car and one of the first things
he said was, you seem irritated. Okay, I'm waiting now
you you this is yo jo. I'm lating now you
running one? How don't you seem very irritated? I am.
I really am just that. But what I'm getting typical.
(17:27):
I'm getting out of your way. You were speeding up,
tailing me, so I'll move over and you stop me. So, yeah,
I am a little irritated, but that doesn't stop you
from giving me a ticket. Trap If that had been
me in my newer model car, dressed in my business suit,
I think the cop would have, again unconsciously and without
realizing it, given me a little more deference than he
(17:49):
gave Sandra Bland. But what he did was Sandra Bland
is He waited four seconds and he said, are you done?
You asked me, and I told you, so now I'm
doing you. In other words, he was telling her, I'm
not deferring to you that I don't care about or
(18:09):
respect your concerns. They were in a staring contest, and
the problem with the staring contest in this context is
not who blinks first. It's who has the power to
swing first, and that's the officer. I'm giving you a
law for to turn around, will you. I'm not complaining
because you just plowing me out of my car and around.
(18:32):
Could something like that have happened in Lancaster especially then? Yeah,
like just a little bit of time, I just wanted
to ask you, you know, like what you remembered about that.
Beyond George Lloyd's account, there isn't even independent confirmation of
the timeline of Jim's death. We're just about ready to
get the second half underway. The public Jim Duncan again,
I want to emphasize I'm not saying that that is
(18:52):
what happened. But if Jim Duncan, the football star who
is used to deference and even a degree of hero
worship in Baltimore, comes down to South Carolina, the potential
for explosive conflict is pretty obvious. We'll be back after this.
(19:19):
For those close to Jim, the pain and confusion around
his death has never really gone away. That same asymmetric
deference norm was on display with Elroy in the exchange
he described with Chief our when Elroy said he was
told not to look further into his brother's death because
quote one death was enough. So maybe I thought Lancaster's
(19:44):
former police chief might engage with me differently. Students of
the Savannah Chatham County Public School System have missed seven
instructional days this year. The school bushire it seeks to
make up loss instructional time, which would require for less
than two years after Jim's death. Loward also left Lancaster.
I think we have forgotten what we're here to do,
(20:07):
the truth. He moved to northern Illinois, in southern Mississippi,
and eventually back to Georgia, where he wrapped up four
decades of law enforcement. Then he joined the school board
in Savannah, about a three and a half hour drive
from Lancaster. If I got a teacher in the classroom
that says I can't teach right because of these make
(20:28):
up days, personally, I don't need that teacher. I'm ready.
Year ago. I've been in congredien well about of times
a while. Well for those teachers who were crying about
the pact, the family I will be watching. Not long ago,
the Savannah Morning News posted this exchange among board members
(20:49):
over a routine scheduling question. If you're taking us down
a road to destroy this bowl, and I'm not gonna
going to happen as long as I'm on it. We're
going to go on to another topic. Now, Is there
anyone would like to speak of something that is appropriate
for this? Foret at Lower clearly hasn't lost his edge.
(21:09):
You think that you were district and I'm sure I
disagree with your order. We're going to move on. One
week day I drove down there and set through a
five hour school board meeting. Afterward, I caught up with
lour in the administrate of Complex, Mr. Ands. I've talked
(21:32):
to her on the phone like a month or two ago.
I'm coming down here from rock Hill, South Carolina, doing
the story on Jim Dugan. I wondered about social dynamics
in Lancaster and the ways they could have influenced Lower's
hasty investigation into Jim's death. I don't care who you are,
where you come from, or what your lifestyle has ended
up being. Even if Jim had taken his own life
(21:55):
exactly as law enforcement said, it is our job to
treat equally and fairly. Their relative in action afterward suggested
Jim's death was treated less equally because of his skin color.
I just wanted to come down and try to talk
to you out of fairness and not to try to Unfortunately,
Lower chose not to have his voice appear in this podcast.
(22:18):
He could have talked about the photo that ran in
the Lancaster News back in four shortly before he left
South Carolina. The image showed him receiving a certificate of
appreciation from the newly formed Lancaster chapter of the INN
double a CP. The photo appears to have been taken
in Lower's wood paneled office, the chief standing with three
black men in suits and the secretary of the inn
(22:40):
double a CP, her hair in an afro. The certificate
thanks Lower for his quote unique and untiring service to
the community. That recognition told a very different story than
the incendiary quote. Elroy remembered, the reason I wanted to
come down here was to get your side of the
story because Duncan's mother had said that you had told
(23:02):
him um not to pursue the matter. One death was enough.
Do you remember what I'm saying that Lower told me quote, No,
ain't no way. I'm going to tell somebody that we
did everything we could do to determine what really happened.
That's me. I'm not a person that tries to cover
something up. Lower had a decorated career in law enforcement.
(23:26):
He was reportedly chosen for more than a hundred applicants
to lead Lancaster's police department. Before his move to South Carolina.
He'd been runner up for Policemen of the Year in Savannah.
That's part of what made things like a lack of
a fingerprint test so confusing. Do you do you remember,
would you guys have had fingerprint evidence then, because people
always said, like, why didn't they test the gun or whatever?
(23:48):
Lower insisted to me quote SLED did the investigation, so
it would depend on what they had done. But Sled
the State's Law Enforcement Division specifically told me they weren't
in charge of the investigation. It sounds like SLID tested
things that the legas a p D asked them to test.
It appears that fingerprints were not among those things they
(24:10):
wanted tested. A little leeway on specifics is probably fair
for someone in their eighties suddenly being asked about a
case from decades ago. Still, my conversation with Lour was brief,
and I can't say I got much from it. You
gotta know, I what I really wanted to talk to
you because I sat through that whole meeting. But I
appreciate you talking to me, though I know it's a
(24:31):
weird story and I don't want to do an you
guys are with that. He told me he was late
for another meeting and he left. Have fun in your
meeting for Lour. Clearly, there's nothing more to be said
(24:52):
for the people who knew Jim and idolized him. And
loved him. Anything at all would help. I mean, was
it racial? Maybe? Was it about a woman? Maybe? Was
it about drugs? Maybe? Did he kill himself? Maybe? I
personally just accepted that was something we'd never know. Rosie
(25:12):
Gilliam told me that once the inquest ended, the economics
of daily life once again assumed top priority for much
of Lancaster's black community. There are certainly people who demanded
to know what happened. But even in retrospect, you know,
once he was dead, is there really an acceptable answer
that's gonna make it? Quote? Okay? And just like that
(25:38):
and him on a great wife. I Jim Duncan. Jim
Duncan's name began to fade into history. No one ever
filed a lawsuit of any kind against the police, not
his family, and not Alice. It seems like you stashed
(26:01):
it away. I don't think. I don't know that they'll
be wrapped up for anybody. Yeah, she told me that
part of her wonders if there's still time and if
there's still a point the truth, she said, feels like
a diamond in the rough, and that's someday the winds
of time might finally expose enough to let that truth
(26:22):
shine through and then leading my work on this project,
I learned that Jim might finally get his day in court.
And on party of return Man, Linda, this is brought McCormick.
Somebody that knows that I'm working on this story called
me and told me they've found someone somewhere either died
(26:43):
with it or is going to die with it. You're
never going to get anything out of it. If someone
is responsible for taking someone else, there's life. The families
deserve to know that, whole community deserve to know that.
I don't think Layers anything unusual about Lancaster. If you
(27:03):
took away the date and time, could you imagine that
happening today? In the intro is yes you can. I'm
Brett McCormick. Return Man is a production of The Herald,
McClatchy Studios and I Heart Radio. It's produced by Matt Walsh,
Karat Tabor Cotta, Stevens, Rachel Wise, and Davin Coburn. The
(27:25):
executive producer for I Heeart Radio is Sean Titone. For
lots more on this story, go to Harold Online dot
com slash return Man If you have any additional information
about Jim Duncan's life or death email us at return
Man at Harold online dot com. To continue supporting this
kind of work, visit Harold online dot com slash podcasts
(27:46):
and consider a digital subscription. And for more podcasts from
my Heart Radio, visit the I heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Long Shot is a production of McClatchy Studios and I
Heart Radio. Previously on Return Man, it was quote room
capacity to come. We held a capathitor would and we
had people on the house. The attorney said that nobody
would talk period. Not one person wanted to tap a batter.
(00:23):
Polish people know what to say to put fear to
It involves rates the mental state of the person and
a town that was scared to death to say anything.
There are conspiracies in the world, and the Jim Crift
South having a period about that conspiracy might not be wrong.
(00:49):
In the course of researching this story, there was at
least one key voice I hadn't really heard from. It
was about the NFL player that committed suicide in Leicester,
former Lancaster Police Chief Larry Lower. Records from the South
Carolina State Law Enforcement Division show that Lancaster police handled
(01:09):
the investigation into Jim's death themselves. We did lab work
the investigating agency. We did not independently investigate. The Lack
of transparency from Lancaster authorities cost Jim's family closure and
left an information vacuum that has been filled by conspiracy
(01:30):
theories for nearly fifty years. They say he committed suicide,
but basically, almost none of Lancaster's black residents I interviewed
believe Jim died the way police said, including the only
black person who served on the inquest panel. They want
to say, we have the police go on the shot itself,
but I don't believe this. Ship Lower now lives in
(01:52):
Georgia and until recently served on a local school board.
He basically hung up on me when I tried to
reach him by phone. So in the summer I went
to him. I needed to understand why Lancaster police took
the actions they did and where Jim's family was supposed
(02:14):
to go from here. And Brett from the Herald McClatchy
Studios and I Heart Radio. This is return man. I'm
Brett McCormick, and this is Part seven Conspiracy Theories number three.
(02:39):
Richard Berry loving and all of talents versus Virginia. Jim
was a ladies man, no doubt, that was one habit
he never hid. Well, they're nothing man that I could
tell you about what other than he just loved one.
Mr Chief Justice made please Ward, I am Bernard s Cohen.
(03:02):
Virginia stands here today and in this Loving case, for
the first time, tries to find a justification other than
white racial supremacy for the existence of its statute. Jim
died five years after the Loving v. Virginia Supreme Court case.
It struck down interracial marriage bands nationwide. The state is
(03:23):
ignoring the right of Richard and Mildred Loving to wake
up in the morning or to go to sleep at
night knowing that the shirt will not be knocking on
their door or shining a light in their face in
the privacy of their bedroom for illicit cohabitation. But South
Carolina has been on interracial marriage officially lasted until only
(03:46):
Alabama's band lasted longer. Why he was in the pros
and all of the you know, white wired and black
sar black and whatever you know. Butcher then Matt, Jim's
brother Elroy and Elroy's wife Linda. He was dating the
Chief Relics daughter during that Henson. Okay, the guy who's
(04:08):
king think what got involved with his door? That is
the one that shot But do you know her name? No.
I was told repeatedly that Jim was involved with one
of Red Henson's daughters. They're white, and the theory is
that Jim a black man somehow died in the police
station because of that. That's that's that's that was what
(04:31):
we were saying. Something by the daughter. I didn't even
know the young lady. Floyd White was one of Jim's
high school coaches, and I can imagine that. You know,
football player nationwide black, you know he comes back home.
You know their own song. There's not gonna louder, They're
not gonna I heard some version of this theory many
(04:52):
different times over the past three years and did not
like to think that his white doughter was having a
round in the car where Jim Lucia Duck Lancaster native
Michael Bogan attended Bar Street School a few years after Duncan,
and for whatever reason, Jim Duncan received a message to
(05:12):
come to the police department. After he gathered to police department,
Jim Duncan was did you know uh Red Hinson's daughter?
I mean, did you know her name? I did not
know her name? Matter that I never seen. You showed
me a picture for that, now, I cook. That tell
(05:33):
you one way a man on the gift taxis doing.
No one could identify which daughter Jim might have been
involved with, and as conspiracy theories go. It combines a
few familiar threads. It involves an overprotective father, which has
been a dramatic staple forever. But at the same time,
(05:54):
a killing like that was hardly without precedent. As just
one example during Jim's lifetime, the alleged crime of a
black man flirting with a white woman was exactly what
led to the death of Emmett Till in Mississippi, one
of the most gruesome hate crimes of the twentieth century.
My baby was taken from his uncle's home and my
aunt's home, and I found out about at nine thirty
(06:17):
Sunday morning. This is tills mother, Mami Bradley, speaking to reporters.
At the time, I thought it was sufficient to mind
my own business. I didn't realize that everything was my business.
That's the way the people are treated all over the earth.
Was my business. Now I know it, and unless we
can get enforceable love, we might as well just forget everything.
(06:44):
Lieutenant Henson had three daughters. I work at the newspaper
in Rockyoll, South Carolina. Was your dad, Russell Henson, the
police officer from Micasar. Darlene Hopkins is the youngest of
those three daughters. Through all the reading I've been doing,
I haven't found very much information about your dad, and
so I just was trying to find out more about him,
(07:06):
and I had come across your name in his obituary.
And she declined to appear in this podcast, but she
told me she wasn't living in Lancaster when Jim died.
In our call, she said I might get more information
from her older sister who was in town when it happened. Okay,
so you weren't living in Lancaster then, got you? Okay?
(07:26):
Barbara Ferguson was Henson's middle daughter. I just wanted to
ask where did you live in Lecaster when it happened?
She spoke to me briefly from her home not far
from Lancaster, though she too declined to lend her voice
to this podcast. Ferguson didn't understand why I would be
looking into the story at all. Uh, just because the
NFL players family still has like a lot of, you know,
(07:48):
in their opinion, unanswered questions about it. And you know,
I think it has a lot of similarities to things
that are going on now. You know, it's an interesting
story too to look at in that regard Forerguson and
I spoke for about fifteen minutes. She told me her
father rarely talked about Jim's death or anything that happened
on the job. For the most part, I think she
(08:10):
was about as friendly as any of us might be
if a reporter called out of the blue basically wondering
if her father had been involved in a murder. I mean,
I just think they think it was out of character
for their relative to have killed himself, So, you know,
I think that's more of the issue than anything. They
don't really have exactly an idea of what else would
(08:31):
have happened. Ferguson told me that by two, she was
in her early thirties and that her sister's recollections were
a little off. She said that when Jim died, she
had already moved away from Lancaster with her husband, and
they already had a family of their own. Ferguson says
she'd never even heard of Jim Duncan before seeing the
news about his death, and and honestly, I didn't I
(08:51):
didn't think you would really know much about it. I
was more wanting to know more about your dad, and
I mean, just what he was like or did he
have a nickname or whatever, you know, making more of
a person instead of just the guy whose gun was used.
The lieutenant was a World War Two Navy veteran and
had been a deacon at his local Baptist church by
(09:15):
nine two. He'd been a member of that local police
department for almost twenty years. No one I spoke with
knew of any incriminating behavior by Henson, and I found
no evidence that he had an adversarial relationship with Jim
or people of color in general. So one of the
conspiracies that I was told by some people I talked
to was that he had a reputation in Lancaster as
(09:40):
somebody that talked to white women a lot, because I
think that there was the the stretch or the leap,
maybe that his death in the police station had something
to do with talking to white women or something like that.
I think I think that was Ferguson told me our
conversation was the first time she'd ever heard that theory,
(10:00):
and that it wasn't worth a second thought. She added
that their other sister, Margaret, is now deceased. Margaret was
alive at the time Jim died, but she was also
living out of state, so, according to Ferguson, known of
Henson's daughters knew Jim, and his death didn't really impact them.
Not long after Jim's death, Hanson resigned from the Lancashire
(10:22):
Police Department without announcing future plans. His obituary said he
went on to become police chief in nearby page Land,
where Jim and Elroy had once hustled pool. When he
left Lancaster, Chief Lauer said of him, quote, He's an
excellent officer, and I certainly wish him the best of
luck in his new work. After my conversations with Henson's daughters,
(10:47):
I can't rule anything out. It's possible Jim had been
involved romantically with a white woman, but at the time,
rural South Carolina was very different from the interconnected world
of today. I can believe Henson's daughters might out of
even heard of Jim during his life, and I feel
confident they weren't involved with Jim or in any way
connected to his death. Okay, well, I really appreciate you
(11:08):
um talking to me, though I know it's sort of
a weird thing to get a call out of the
blue about so, but I also have to wonder if
the incident might have affected Henson and his family more
than Ferguson claimed. Right before we hung up, she insisted, quote,
some things are better left alone. It was just not
that big a deal. We'll be back in a moment.
(11:39):
I don't think Ferguson is alone in that assessment. For
many people in Lancashire at the time, at least many
white people, it was just not that big a deal
for a black man to allegedly walk into his hometown
police station and without saying a word, rip a gun
from lieutenants Holster and shoot himself in the head. It
(12:02):
made me wonder if I had been asking the wrong
question in a small, most lay southern town. What if
there wasn't any sort of cause and effect that makes
sense here? Racism was abundant, but it was just being
a right right on her. From all my research into
Jim's life, my overwriting impression of race relations in nineteen
(12:24):
sixties Lancaster isn't so much a clear list of racist events.
Mostly it's a crushing sense of apathy by white people.
That's not an event, that's a social structure in which
every event unfolds. I thought back to something Alice told
me about her late husband. He had a favorite poem.
(12:45):
M hmm. Interesting. She never knew what it was called
or where he'd found it, but Jim would often repeat
the lines. Let others cheer the winning man. There's one
I hold worthwhile, tis he who does the best he
can then loses with a smile? Is that from something here?
Can you say it again? Have to look it up
(13:06):
and see where're going from. That presumption of losing even
smiling as it happens, fit a dynamic that USC law
professor Seth Stowton has studied that idea of how we
interact with people. It depends on our perception of their
social status, and in the sixties and seventies, a black
(13:28):
man had I think it is fair to say significantly
less social status, certainly compared to a police officer. At
the time, that was an especially fragile state of affairs
in a place like Lancaster. We're constantly making those judgments,
and we're using them to adjust how much deference we
(13:50):
give the other person and how much difference we expect
them to give us. There are some problems that are
particularly acute in the policing context when both people expect
more deference than the other one is giving them. Social
psychologists called this an asymmetric deference norm. The officer might say,
(14:12):
this person should defer to me because I am the authority.
The other person might say, the officer should defer to
me in at least some respect because I am a taxpayer,
or something like that. That's one thing I've always found
so interesting about Jim's returned to Lancaster. In those theories
(14:33):
about Henston's daughters, Well, and it is coming a duncan
a real breath, not because I've seen anything to suggest
they were connected to Jim, but because the belief they
could have been was its own evidence that Jim no
longer fit with Lancaster's deference norms. Well, we know that
they're back in town. As for Force Butcher, I didn't
see him daily, but we knew he was in town
(14:56):
when he was there. Rosie Gilliam is the son of
Sandy Gilliam, Jim's bar Street and Maryland State football coach.
Sandy Gilliam moved his family back to Lancaster in the
early seventies when he left football behind and took a
job at Springs Mill. Today, I think that people might
suggest that there's some I don't know, ill will directed
toward him by the police. And I think then, of
(15:19):
course people thought that, I mean, but there was nothing
that certainly nothing that we could prove. And as kids
that know, our general thought was that there was probably
something that was not right, but it was more of
a fear that you know, makes certain you don't put
yourself in a position where that could happen to you.
(15:41):
Bush Dunton was a Jim Duck. Jim had achieved a
stature that far exceeded even the white authorities in Lancaster,
and those authorities knew it. Even if he wasn't brazen
enough to approach a white officer's daughter, the mere fact
that he could have was richly symbolic. The best thing
(16:01):
that could have happened would have been him not to
be there in the first place. Rosie Gilliam was a
teenager when Jim died and still looked up to the
Super Bowl champ Why was he a in Lancaster and
be what was he at the police depart And you
know it had either one of those things been a no,
and maybe he'd be a laugh today. So in the
(16:22):
police station, whether Jim talked about a love affair or
anything else. His main offense was already committed simply by
being there all the world. What if the question isn't
what happened, but how it happened. The potential for conflict
comes up when the officer may not just be lack
(16:44):
of deference as something that is upsetting they maybe it
is something that requires a physical response. Here's USC law
professor Seth Stowton. I can think of no better example
than the sandral Land traffic sho man. Well, it takes
how we told a prest stop is you didn't fail.
You failed to signal your lane change. You get you
driving blace in terms with you. After an initial interaction,
(17:06):
the officer walked back to his car, wrote out what
we later learned as a warning ticket, walked back up
to Sandra Bland's car and one of the first things
he said was, you seem irritated. Okay, I'm waiting now
you you this is yo jo. I'm lating now you
running one? How don't you seem very irritated? I am.
I really am just that. But what I'm getting typical.
(17:27):
I'm getting out of your way. You were speeding up,
tailing me, so I'll move over and you stop me. So, yeah,
I am a little irritated, but that doesn't stop you
from giving me a ticket. Trap If that had been
me in my newer model car, dressed in my business suit,
I think the cop would have, again unconsciously and without
realizing it, given me a little more deference than he
(17:49):
gave Sandra Bland. But what he did was Sandra Bland
is He waited four seconds and he said, are you done?
You asked me, and I told you, so now I'm
doing you. In other words, he was telling her, I'm
not deferring to you that I don't care about or
(18:09):
respect your concerns. They were in a staring contest, and
the problem with the staring contest in this context is
not who blinks first. It's who has the power to
swing first, and that's the officer. I'm giving you a
law for to turn around, will you. I'm not complaining
because you just plowing me out of my car and around.
(18:32):
Could something like that have happened in Lancaster especially then? Yeah,
like just a little bit of time, I just wanted
to ask you, you know, like what you remembered about that.
Beyond George Lloyd's account, there isn't even independent confirmation of
the timeline of Jim's death. We're just about ready to
get the second half underway. The public Jim Duncan again,
I want to emphasize I'm not saying that that is
(18:52):
what happened. But if Jim Duncan, the football star who
is used to deference and even a degree of hero
worship in Baltimore, comes down to South Carolina, the potential
for explosive conflict is pretty obvious. We'll be back after this.
(19:19):
For those close to Jim, the pain and confusion around
his death has never really gone away. That same asymmetric
deference norm was on display with Elroy in the exchange
he described with Chief our when Elroy said he was
told not to look further into his brother's death because
quote one death was enough. So maybe I thought Lancaster's
(19:44):
former police chief might engage with me differently. Students of
the Savannah Chatham County Public School System have missed seven
instructional days this year. The school bushire it seeks to
make up loss instructional time, which would require for less
than two years after Jim's death. Loward also left Lancaster.
I think we have forgotten what we're here to do,
(20:07):
the truth. He moved to northern Illinois, in southern Mississippi,
and eventually back to Georgia, where he wrapped up four
decades of law enforcement. Then he joined the school board
in Savannah, about a three and a half hour drive
from Lancaster. If I got a teacher in the classroom
that says I can't teach right because of these make
(20:28):
up days, personally, I don't need that teacher. I'm ready.
Year ago. I've been in congredien well about of times
a while. Well for those teachers who were crying about
the pact, the family I will be watching. Not long ago,
the Savannah Morning News posted this exchange among board members
(20:49):
over a routine scheduling question. If you're taking us down
a road to destroy this bowl, and I'm not gonna
going to happen as long as I'm on it. We're
going to go on to another topic. Now, Is there
anyone would like to speak of something that is appropriate
for this? Foret at Lower clearly hasn't lost his edge.
(21:09):
You think that you were district and I'm sure I
disagree with your order. We're going to move on. One
week day I drove down there and set through a
five hour school board meeting. Afterward, I caught up with
lour in the administrate of Complex, Mr. Ands. I've talked
(21:32):
to her on the phone like a month or two ago.
I'm coming down here from rock Hill, South Carolina, doing
the story on Jim Dugan. I wondered about social dynamics
in Lancaster and the ways they could have influenced Lower's
hasty investigation into Jim's death. I don't care who you are,
where you come from, or what your lifestyle has ended
up being. Even if Jim had taken his own life
(21:55):
exactly as law enforcement said, it is our job to
treat equally and fairly. Their relative in action afterward suggested
Jim's death was treated less equally because of his skin color.
I just wanted to come down and try to talk
to you out of fairness and not to try to Unfortunately,
Lower chose not to have his voice appear in this podcast.
(22:18):
He could have talked about the photo that ran in
the Lancaster News back in four shortly before he left
South Carolina. The image showed him receiving a certificate of
appreciation from the newly formed Lancaster chapter of the INN
double a CP. The photo appears to have been taken
in Lower's wood paneled office, the chief standing with three
black men in suits and the secretary of the inn
(22:40):
double a CP, her hair in an afro. The certificate
thanks Lower for his quote unique and untiring service to
the community. That recognition told a very different story than
the incendiary quote. Elroy remembered, the reason I wanted to
come down here was to get your side of the
story because Duncan's mother had said that you had told
(23:02):
him um not to pursue the matter. One death was enough.
Do you remember what I'm saying that Lower told me quote, No,
ain't no way. I'm going to tell somebody that we
did everything we could do to determine what really happened.
That's me. I'm not a person that tries to cover
something up. Lower had a decorated career in law enforcement.
(23:26):
He was reportedly chosen for more than a hundred applicants
to lead Lancaster's police department. Before his move to South Carolina.
He'd been runner up for Policemen of the Year in Savannah.
That's part of what made things like a lack of
a fingerprint test so confusing. Do you do you remember,
would you guys have had fingerprint evidence then, because people
always said, like, why didn't they test the gun or whatever?
(23:48):
Lower insisted to me quote SLED did the investigation, so
it would depend on what they had done. But Sled
the State's Law Enforcement Division specifically told me they weren't
in charge of the investigation. It sounds like SLID tested
things that the legas a p D asked them to test.
It appears that fingerprints were not among those things they
(24:10):
wanted tested. A little leeway on specifics is probably fair
for someone in their eighties suddenly being asked about a
case from decades ago. Still, my conversation with Lour was brief,
and I can't say I got much from it. You
gotta know, I what I really wanted to talk to
you because I sat through that whole meeting. But I
appreciate you talking to me, though I know it's a
(24:31):
weird story and I don't want to do an you
guys are with that. He told me he was late
for another meeting and he left. Have fun in your
meeting for Lour. Clearly, there's nothing more to be said
(24:52):
for the people who knew Jim and idolized him. And
loved him. Anything at all would help. I mean, was
it racial? Maybe? Was it about a woman? Maybe? Was
it about drugs? Maybe? Did he kill himself? Maybe? I
personally just accepted that was something we'd never know. Rosie
(25:12):
Gilliam told me that once the inquest ended, the economics
of daily life once again assumed top priority for much
of Lancaster's black community. There are certainly people who demanded
to know what happened. But even in retrospect, you know,
once he was dead, is there really an acceptable answer
that's gonna make it? Quote? Okay? And just like that
(25:38):
and him on a great wife. I Jim Duncan. Jim
Duncan's name began to fade into history. No one ever
filed a lawsuit of any kind against the police, not
his family, and not Alice. It seems like you stashed
(26:01):
it away. I don't think. I don't know that they'll
be wrapped up for anybody. Yeah, she told me that
part of her wonders if there's still time and if
there's still a point the truth, she said, feels like
a diamond in the rough, and that's someday the winds
of time might finally expose enough to let that truth
(26:22):
shine through and then leading my work on this project,
I learned that Jim might finally get his day in court.
And on party of return Man, Linda, this is brought McCormick.
Somebody that knows that I'm working on this story called
me and told me they've found someone somewhere either died
(26:43):
with it or is going to die with it. You're
never going to get anything out of it. If someone
is responsible for taking someone else, there's life. The families
deserve to know that, whole community deserve to know that.
I don't think Layers anything unusual about Lancaster. If you
(27:03):
took away the date and time, could you imagine that
happening today? In the intro is yes you can. I'm
Brett McCormick. Return Man is a production of The Herald,
McClatchy Studios and I Heart Radio. It's produced by Matt Walsh,
Karat Tabor Cotta, Stevens, Rachel Wise, and Davin Coburn. The
(27:25):
executive producer for I Heeart Radio is Sean Titone. For
lots more on this story, go to Harold Online dot
com slash return Man If you have any additional information
about Jim Duncan's life or death email us at return
Man at Harold online dot com. To continue supporting this
kind of work, visit Harold online dot com slash podcasts
(27:46):
and consider a digital subscription. And for more podcasts from
my Heart Radio, visit the I heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
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