April 13, 2022 • 40 mins
What are the yips? Imagine something you do every day, an ability that is so practiced that you can do it without consciously thinking about the specific movements necessary to perform it: something like driving, walking, typing, or even breathing. Now imagine not being able to do that thing, and for no apparent reason. You have no idea how long you’ve lost the ability for, and no idea how to get it back. That is the yips, and on the first episode of Losing Control, you’ll hear from two athletes who experienced it firsthand: Tyler Matzek, one of the toughest relief pitchers in Major League Baseball, and the one and only Rick Ankiel, whose struggle with the yips–and triumphant comeback–is legendary. You’ll also hear from Sports Illustrated’s very own Stephanie Apstein, who has adopted the yips as an unofficial beat and written about those who have experienced it across sports, from Olympic G-O-A-T Simone Biles to World Series Champion Jon Lester. It’s Meet the Yips, on the first episode of Losing Control.
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Rick Ankiel, a retired professional pitcher, outfielder, and author of “The Phenomenon: Pressure, the Yips, and the Pitch that Changed My Life”
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Stephanie Apstein, Senior Writer at Sports Illustrated
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Tyler Matzek, 2021 World Series Champion and current relief pitcher for the Atlanta Braves
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
It's hard to to tell somebody, to explain it to
somebody who hasn't gone through it. I like to tell
people it's like waking up one day and you can
write your name. It's easy. You don't even to think
about it. You just write your name. But if you
woke up the next day and you couldn't even hold
the pen, you're not even close to writing at that point.
You can't hold the pen, you physically cannot do it.
(00:21):
For some reason, you go to grab it and it
just falls out of your hand. It's the most confusing,
confusing thing that you can possibly think about, because it's
something you've done your entire life. You've trained, you spent
countless note of hours, and then all of a sudden
you can't do the most simple task. That's Tyler mat
Sick talking about one of the strangest experiences in sports,
(00:41):
the yips. Now you might remember Tyler from the World Series,
where he played a critical role in helping the Atlanta
Brave secure a World Series title. I struck out ends
this set my dead looking and he struck out the
side dominant from electrics in the legend. Tyler is a
(01:08):
World Series champion. He's known by his teammates for being
a bulldog on the mound. He's known for his electric fastball.
He's known for being the kind of player who can
get his team out of tight situations. But not long ago,
he was about to walk away from it all, not
because he didn't love baseball anymore, but because he lost
(01:29):
his ability to throw. I remember, like the first round
of catch, read truly looked at myself and said, I
have the yep. It was two thousan fifteen spring training.
My throwing partner was Chad Bettis. I was a starter
with the Rockies. I was just trying to like be
real easy and throw the ball to him, and I
was all over the place. And I'm sitting there going like,
oh my gosh, Okay, well, I don't know what's going on.
(01:51):
I feel like there's a disconnect between my brain and
my arm and my hand, you know, Honestly, Like in
the beginning, it was more just like what the hecks
going on? On? Like do I have a pinch nerve somewhere?
Do I have a brain tumor? What is what is
going on? There's something that is not in my control
that is happening. And then it slowly turned just slowly
(02:12):
turned for the worst from that point on, slowly eight
away at me until I was out of baseball. So
I want you to imagine doing something writing, walking, typing,
something you've done your entire life over and over again.
Now imagine not being able to do that thing. You
(02:32):
have no idea why, you have no idea how long
it's gonna last for, and you have no idea how
to get that ability back. That is the YIPS. I'm
Justin Sua, and this is losing control. My name is
(02:55):
Justin Sua, and I've been around for a little bit. Today,
I'm the head of mental Performance for the Tampa Bay Rays,
and for the past decade, I've had the tremendous opportunity
to work with some of the best athletes in the world.
Have been part of the World Series, have stood on
the sidelines at the NFL, have been part of the
NFL Draft, to have seen w w E wrestler's backstage.
(03:18):
I've seen athletes when championships, and I have seen athletes
experience the agony of defeat. The reason I care so
much about the YIPS is because I have seen it firsthand.
I have seen how the YIPS has caused a professional
athlete to not just question their path, but to question
their identity. I've seen how it has affected them on
(03:40):
and off the field. Sometimes you watch olympians or elite
athletes and think, I'm nothing like them, I can never
be like that. While that may be true in some cases,
you might not be as fast, you might not be
as strong. But one thing you're going to hear as
each one of these athletes navigated through their yips, you're
going to notice that they're very similar to you, having
(04:03):
to navigate, not feeling confident, having to learn how to
focus on what they can control, having to identify what
their purposes and reidentify what their purposes. As you listen
to their stories, it's gonna feel relatable. The yips are
a broad topic and it is a multifaceted issue. As
(04:26):
a result, we're gonna give you multiple perspectives. You are
going to hear from elite athletes, but you're also going
to hear from coaches, sports psychologists, neuroscientists, writers, and you're
even going to hear from a concert pianist. Losing Control
is a podcast about losing control of an ability, of
your life, and maybe even of who you are because
(04:48):
that's what the yips due to the people who face it.
Over the next ten episodes, you'll hear a series of
perspectives that not only shed a light on one of
the greatest mysteries and sports, but on how we live
our lives and whether you're an athlete or not. All
of our guests will leave you with something that you
can incorporate into your life, because it's not just about
(05:09):
losing control, it's about getting it back. So let's get started.
My name is Stephanie Apstein and I am a senior writer.
It's Sports Illustrated For those who do not know, Can
you tell us what the yips are? The yips are
the sudden, inexplicable inability to do something easy. So for
a golfer, that might be lose the ability to put
(05:30):
for a picture, that might be the ability to find
the strike zone. I personally, as a writer, have sometimes
felt like suddenly I can't form sentences, I think anything
where you should be able to do it, and all
of a sudden, for reasons you don't understand, you can't.
I'm curious, I think you, I think correct me if
I'm wrong. You've been writing about the yips since at least,
(05:51):
how did you even get into writing about and researching
the yips and its effect on professional athletes. It was
John Luster actually, so you're right on the timing because
it was the World Series. John Lester is a picture
who had a very successful Major league career. He made
his debut with the Boston Red Sox in two thousand
and six. Then he went to the A's, the Cubs,
(06:13):
the Washington Nationals, and he retired recently with the St.
Louis Cardinals. He's a five time All Star, a three
time World Series champion, and he threw a no hitter
back in two thousand eight when he was a member
of the Boston Red Sox. However, there was one problem.
Lester struggled to throw the ball at the first base.
(06:35):
This sort of blew up initially in during the A
l Wild Card game. It was sort of the thing
that people knew in baseball a little bit maybe that
John Lester couldn't throw a first base. But during wild
Card game, the Royals ran constantly on him strolling very
surely yard were the Royals were saying before the game,
(06:57):
John Luster does not throw over? And then what what
was so astonishing to me is he just kept pitching,
and he just kept being good. I remember during the
World Series watching him. That was the first World Series
I had really covered, and I remember thinking, like I
just couldn't understand how this was happening. Everything I had
understood to that point about the yips was that you
(07:18):
either had to recover or retire, and he seemed to
be doing neither. And so that offseason I tried to
read everything I could about it. I just couldn't understand
how he could do it. And I realized that I
hadn't really read anything that looked at that particularly, and
I wondered, actually, if anybody had ever asked John Lester
if indeed he had the yips and what it felt like,
(07:39):
And so I thought maybe I should try to write that.
Stephanie's piece, which appeared in Sports Illustrated in May of seventeen,
was called John Lester didn't just beat the yips, He
improved once the secret was out. I think sometimes people
look at the yips and they think it's weakness. But
I came away from writing about John Lester thinking this
was actually one of the strongest mental feats I had
(08:02):
ever seen, that he was navigating this potentially embarrassing, frightening, frustrating,
really problematic situation, and having some of the best years
of his career after everybody knew this, this terrible thing.
Getting the yips has nothing to do with how mentally
tough you are, and even the most talented athletes are susceptible.
(08:22):
I would love to talk about Simone Biles. Now, many
of our listeners, they may remember that she suddenly exited
Tokyo Olympics. What happened? People kept talking about she had
pulled out because of her mental health, and she pulled
out it almost I think people made it sound like
it's like smoke got sad or small got scared, and
(08:43):
so she decided to like do self care, which is
not really all what was happening. Um, can can you
talk about the technical part of that vault? You tried?
What happened and what were you attempting? And what happened?
I was trying it's you and a half, and I
ended up doing the one and a half, just got
(09:04):
a little bit lost from the air. What happened it
was this is essentially the gymnastics form of the yips.
She lost the ability to figure out where she was
in space, and that is really scary for a picture.
It's scary for quarterback, it's scary for a golfer, and
it is potentially satal for a gymnast. If you don't
know where you are in space, you could break your neck.
(09:25):
That is not you know, if if John Lester can't
get the ball the first space, he's not going to die.
He may feel like he's going to die, but he's
not going to die. Smobobs could actually have died. And
so she pulled out because she had to figure out
how to get through this particular phenomenon called the twisties,
which is the thing that happens to many gymnasts and
gymnasts immediately when they heard her. Some of them didn't
(09:45):
even need to hear her. They just saw the look
in her eyes and they knew exactly what that was,
that feeling that you are lost in space, that the
whole thing that has gotten you as far as you
have gotten, is your spatial awareness, and suddenly it is
totally gone. Stephanie actually spoke with Simone Biles in August
for an s I cover story. It was called How
(10:07):
Simone Biles Came Back to win the Bronze of her
life Now gymnastics in baseball aren't the only sports where
you find the yips. I think the hips are way
more prevalent than we realize. Um, that's one thing that
I have learned once I once I sort of adopted
this is my favorite topic. A lot of people just
can kind of get away with it. So I think
(10:28):
probably the answer is they are everywhere, but they are
most commonly seen. Golf is the big one. Just your
parts are suddenly yanked in the wrong direction. We love
the chipping yips that we see that fairly frequently. Certainly
in baseball you see it from with a picture. You
see it with an infielder who can't get the ball
to first. Sometimes the catcher can't get the ball to second.
(10:49):
Sometimes the catcher can't get the ball back to the picture.
Those are big ones. You see it less in outfielders,
but I imagine it's there as well. And then you've
seen it. We've seen it with quarterbacks sometimes him sometimes kickers.
You certainly see it with free throws in basketball. I
think there are a lot of places that some elements
of the yifts show up. That is fascinating. Now, with
(11:12):
that being said, we might have some people who are
listening to this and their skeptical They're thinking, what do
you mean you can't throw the ball at first space?
What do you mean you can't swing a golf club,
What do you mean you can't throw a dart, you
can't write a sentence? What do you say the person
who questions if it's really real or not? Yeah, I
(11:34):
get that. I think that's sort of a natural reaction
because it does defy reason, and I think that was
the reaction for a long time. I mean, I think
it's only recently that these guys are not maybe not
laughed at, but I think the reaction from teammates and
peers is very different now than it was twenty years ago,
where it was seen as a sort of a moral failing. Now,
(11:55):
I think people understand that you can't help it. And
I guess the two things I would say are, one,
what circumstances would somebody want this, you know, like this
idea that they can't possibly be choosing to not be
able to do this thing. That would be insane. And
then the other thing, if that doesn't make you believe
it is. You're pretty good at breathing, right, That's something
(12:15):
that you do a lot of think about breathing, and
then all of a sudden, it's a lot harder to
remember how to breathe. It doesn't feel natural anymore. You
can't remember what your body usually does. That's also true
of walking, of anything like that. As soon as you
start thinking too much about it, you lose whatever the
muscle memory is. And I think that is part of
what happens in the yips, that once once, whatever this
(12:37):
thing is, once it happens, you can't figure out how
to get out of it because thinking is problematic. You
want not to think, and so once you start thinking
about it, you lose the ability to do it. We'll
be back after this. I'm just in SUA and you're
listening to Losing control. Before the break. You heard about
(13:01):
the yips, what it's like, the sports where it comes up,
and for the skeptics out there, one perspective on just
how real this is. For those who experience it, it's
about who you are and the stakes couldn't be higher. Now,
if you've heard of the yips or you follow baseball,
chances are you know the story of our next guest. Hi.
(13:22):
This is Rick Ankiel, former Major league baseball player. I
was a picture for eight years, and then I was
an outfielder for eight years. Rick Ankiel was able to
get back in the baseball after the Yips knocked him
out of it. I want people to know what I
went through, because, yeah, that was me and I was lost.
It was a lonely dark place. Um. You know, I've
(13:44):
I've said this before, but going through the throwing issues
and where I was, how lost I was. I wouldn't
wish that on anybody. Now, when he says throwing issues,
he's referring to the yips. That's just how dark it was.
I mean, you're you know, suicidal thoughts, and um, I
felt like I was in a mental prison for five
years and there's no worse place to be. And you're
(14:07):
as alone as you can be. I mean, that's just
what it is. You may have help throughout the day,
but you know, when you go home at night, you're
by yourself. And when you wake up in the middle
of the night with nightmares and your drinks in sweat
and your heart's racing a thousand miles an hour, you're
by yourself. That's the loneliest place you can be. So
I want people to understand that because yeah, that was me.
(14:28):
That's what I went through. But this is where I
am now today. Rick is living the good life in
beautiful Florida, just like me. So let's rewind a little bit.
Before he got the yips, Rick Ankio was living the dream.
He was a young baseball prodigy with electric stuff and
he signed a pro contract straight out of high school.
(14:48):
At the time, I was living in the greatest dream ever.
My goal was not to be a major leaguer, but
to be the best left handed pitcher that's ever stepped
onto the mount and that's exactly what was was happening.
I was following the yellow brick road, working harder everything.
Like you know, it doesn't always go that way, right,
You can't just outwork the game. But it felt like
(15:09):
I would just keep working harder and harder, and I
just kept getting better and better. There's a phrase in
professional baseball that goes, if you want to make it
to the next level, dominate the level you're at, and
that's exactly what Rick did. It just felt like the
harder I worked, the better I was getting. It just
kept paying off and every every level I went to
(15:31):
a ball high A dominated, went to Double A, dominated,
went to Triple A, dominating, got to the big leagues,
um dominating again. So it just felt like, you know,
everything I had ever dreamed of was coming true right
in front of me. He debuted for the St. Louis
Cardinals when he was just twenty years old. The next year,
he pitched his first full season. The Cardinals won their
(15:54):
division that year, and it gave Rick a big chance.
I'm thinking, I have a chance to be one of
the best pitchers who's ever stepped onto a baseball field.
It's not like I felt this coming or you could
see signs of it. I was in the pitching the
first game of the playoffs. I was twenty one years old.
I got a chance to pitch against the Atlanta Braves,
which is my team, my heroes, and I'm starting against
(16:16):
Greg Maddox, and really, it felt like this is gonna
be my coming out party. I'm gonna get a chance
to show the world who and what I can be
and what I am right now. I asked Rick if
he felt the pressure, not at all. I didn't feel pressure.
I felt like, this is where I'm supposed to be.
This is destiny, and I'm gonna go out here and
throw a no hitter and take Greg Maddox deep, I'm
(16:38):
gonna show everybody who I am. So it wasn't like
I felt all this crazy pressure. I felt like I
was exactly where I was supposed to be at the
right time, at the exact moment, and God placed me
there for a reason. That's what I felt like. I
felt like I was invincible, and We're gonna go on
and win the World Series. I'm gonna win this game.
We're gonna beat the Braves, We're gonna go on and
breat the Mets, and then we're onto the World Series
and we're gonna win it. And it's and I'm gonna
(16:59):
do everything. I'm my power, um to be the best
pitcher there was. And even coming down the stretch, so
I was feeling the flow. I was in the zone.
I was in that flow state of feeling like everything
is perfect, this is the best I've pitched the entire year. Um.
So everything for me in that moment felt like it
was exactly what it was supposed to be. Rick started
(17:20):
Game one of the two thousand National League Division Series,
and at first things were going pretty well until suddenly
they weren't. I threw one pitch, it wasn't even a
bad pitch. I threw a I threw a cutter in
and it cut a little bit more than normal, But
it really wasn't It wasn't a terrial pitch whatsoever. But
you know, in in my mind, all of a sudden,
(17:40):
I was like, man, I just threw a wild pitch
on National TV, and all of a sudden, pitches just
started to spiral out of control. Another wild pitch, over
the head of hernandals and back to the back stog. Well,
all of the sudden things just kind of on ravel
deal for Rick add Deel. One bad pitch leads to
another and another, and a net there. All the keys
(18:01):
I had from a mechanical standpoint, whether it was keep
my weight back, keep my shoulder closed, thing that I
had just learned over time that always got me back
on track to throw strikes, just weren't working. And I, honestly,
at that time, at that age, at twenty one, I
didn't even know what the word anxiety meant, and I
had no clue. And I thought, you know what, I
may remember seeing to the media after the game, that
(18:23):
you know, what is your mechanical issue? This will never
happen again. Blah blah, blah. Well, little did I know
what was actually really happening. And to be quite frank,
I was. I was never the same. Rick was pulled
from the game, and afterward then Cardinals manager Tony LaRussa
try to convince Rick to come off the roster the
rest of the postseason. At the time, I was in denial.
(18:45):
I didn't understand what was happening. And Tony Lrusa called
me into the office and he goes, hey, I think
that's you know, after the first game that I started
throwing balls all over here, I think that's good. Let's
just shut the season down. Um, you know, let's just
let's just hit pause and and you'll just you know,
you'll be here with us, but you know, let's not
pitch you. Up to this point, Rick was on top
of the world. His stuff was electric, He was dominant,
(19:08):
and some even thought he was on pace to being
one of the best pitchers ever and he was only
twenty one years old. The Cardinals beat the Braves and
would go on to face the medic in the National
League Championship Series, the set of games that determines which
team goes onto the World Series. I threw a bullpen
in between that start, and when we were going to
(19:28):
play the Mets, and my bullpen was lights out. I
was perfect. A bullpen is a practice pitching session, but
as we know in sports, a perfect practice doesn't guarantee
you're going to be perfect in the game. Rick was
ready to pitch, but Tony Larusa, the manager, wasn't so sure.
So I argued with him, I'm like, absolutely not. This
is my start. I'm taking it. It's my ball, I
(19:50):
want it. I'm good to go. Give me the ball. Um.
And then I went out there to start against the Mets,
and you know, the anxiety in the pressure. Now there's
something that I've that I've definitely league. I've never felt
that's it was just a different feeling. Um, you know.
But I was still as hopeful as you could be
and thought that I'm gonna beat that. If anything, I
can beat it with mechanics. I understand my mechanics so
(20:12):
well that, you know, let's say, if you were to
build account like you were dancing right foot back one, two, three, four,
that I could be able to just use my mechanics
to get the ball to go where I wanted. Around
these parts, the fans and the Cardinals themselves wondering what
in the world they're gonna get out of their young
one year old left hander Rick an Keeler starts tonight.
(20:33):
I remember this game vividly. I remember where I was sitting,
I remember who I was with. I was a pictur
in college and was watching it with my teammates, and
at the time I really didn't grasp what was going on.
But as I was watching Rick struggle to throw strikes
in a way, it was kind of reassuring for me
as a young college pitcher, because I thought to myself,
(20:55):
even the best in the world can have a bad
game from time to time. And it wasn't until I
heard Rick Ankiel's voice more than twenty two years later
that I really began to understand what happened. I threw
a while pitch, the pressure came. I could feel my
body locking up. I still didn't understand really what anxiety was,
but I was starting to see, Okay, something's something's not right.
(21:19):
This isn't mechanics. Come on, this is he's lost all
his mechanics and he can't get the ball to the
point where the catcher could even catch it. The Cardinals
ended up losing, but the media frenzy had just begun,
so that first spring training, even trying to play catch,
you know, like when I would show up at the
(21:39):
park and I go to play catch, this is the
beginning of spring training. We're not even playing games yet.
There's fifty cameras. They're um just waiting for me to
throw one away. I mean, those are going to be
the headlines today. The media loves a mystery, and we
as consumers of media, don't always think about the impact
of that story on the person who's actually living it.
(21:59):
It would be a lot easier to say, oh, I
blew out my shoulder and I had a physical injury
because everybody could see it. But it's like it's having
an injury to your brain that nobody can see, and
all of a sudden, it feels like there's a puppet
master above you, controlling you and won't allow you to
do what you've always done. I remember, you know, when
I'm out there trying to throw a strike, I'm holding
(22:19):
the ball, I'm looking at it, but I can't feel
my hand, And when I would go to release the ball,
try to throw the ball right through that release point,
it was almost as if I would black out. And
have a miniature Caesar and then all of a sudden
you're looking at the catcher hoping that he caught it
or where did the ball go? Um. So it's a terrifying,
lonely place to be. That That's how I would describe
the hips. For years, Rick Ankio was known as being
(22:42):
an elite pitcher. Pitching and pitching well wasn't just something
he did. It embodied who he was. Well, you know,
I've gotten real good at and I think a lot
of athletes are the same bit. Hiding my emotions, right,
whether I'm not feeling good or not, I'm not going
to let you know that. I'm out there, standing out
there like I'm the baddest guy on the field. And
(23:04):
all of a sudden it became that that wall got exploded.
There's no wall I could put up to fake it,
and people could see into it. Felt like people we
could see into my soul. It was just like, you know,
like I had no clothes on and I'm standing out
there naked and everybody's laughing at it. My world was shattered. Um,
(23:25):
My confidence had none. UM felt vulnerable. Lost. I mean
lost is the biggest word. And I can remember, you know, again,
this is two thousand one, so this is the first
spring training after I went through the throwing stuff in
the playoffs. I mean, I'm waking up and it's to
the point where I get out of bed, roll out
of bed, and I think to myself, hmm, did I
(23:46):
always get out of bed on this side? And then
I got to brush my teeth. Did I always brush
my teeth like this? Or did I do it like that?
And maybe that'll make me be a better picture. And
even at the time when I was doing it, I'm
saying to myself, this is ridiculous, and this is crazy,
but what's going through your mind? It became so obsessive
to try to figure out how to throw strikes again
(24:07):
that it was like my whole world was turned upside down,
and you know, you're starting to second guess yourself and
everything you do. Everything I did, it was like, well, wait,
did I used to do it like this or should I?
You know, it's it's um, you know, it's hard to
even put into words, but that's just how lost I was.
(24:28):
People say it's just a game, but sometimes it's more
than that. It wasn't even a game anymore. It was survival.
It was how do I survive the twenty one hours
around the day to get back to the park, and
then when I get there, how do I survive that
those times? There wasn't you know I would say that
(24:51):
that use the word game. It wasn't a game. I
felt like I was trying to survive life. Um, even
though it is a game. That's how deep and dark
that that stuff can go. I was never the same
as far as being that invincible picture out there on
the mound where nothing bothered me and I felt like
(25:11):
I could strike anyone out, I could beat anybody. Um
that that leaked out and was gone forever. All of
this led to a very difficult decision for Rick. He's
still with the St. Louis Cardinals and Tony LaRussa is
still the manager. As soon as I walked out of
Tony Larissa's office saying you know, this is it. I
can't do I don't want to do this anymore, I
(25:31):
felt like this giant weight was taken off me. I
could finally take a deep breath. In that moment, I
had no idea what I was gonna do. But also
in that moment, I knew right then and there I
made the right decision, and and by giving up the
only thing I ever wanted, I got myself back, which
is what I always wanted. By giving it the only
(25:53):
thing he ever wanted, Rick got himself back. For me
to find the courage to retire or quit or whatever
you want to say, was that that was the hardest
thing I've ever done baseball was I didn't know how
to let go. So the courage to go in there
and actually do that was probably one of the biggest
moments in my life, just because I got the courage
(26:15):
to do it. Imagine loving something so much and getting
so far where you can taste it, where you're experiencing it,
and then all of a sudden, for reasons outside of
your control, you have to walk away. There's a lot
more to Rick Ankile story, so much more than we
can go into today. But I want to make sure
you heard something. When we're talking about the Yips, We're
(26:38):
not just talking about some mysterious ailments. We're talking about
a life changing experience that cuts to the core of
who a person is. How do you face something like that?
You know, for me, one of the you know, the
thing that I'm the most proud of is that I
just I kept showing up every day. I never gave up.
And their days when I didn't have hope, but for
(27:02):
the most part, I had hope. And if you know,
if you lose hope, I think you lose everything. Right,
you have to have the hope that you can overcome
this or you can make the world a better place,
and you know you can do your part um because
if you lose that, I think that you know you're lost,
and it just makes things a lot harder. Does he
(27:22):
even think about what could have happened if he never
got the yips every now and again. I mean, I
guess I would say I would wonder what the picture
and me would have become. I had really, really good stuff.
I was blessed from God with an unbelievable arm um.
So sure do I want to see what those numbers
and what that would have looked like? Of course. But
on the other side of that, when I look back
(27:44):
at all those times and in the good times, the
bad times, at the dark times, what I remind myself
is this is that hindsight is undefeated, and I don't
look back and beat myself up about it, or I
should have done this, or I could have done that,
and maybe this would have been different. Because what I
what I understand and embrace is that at at every
time I ever had to make a big decision in
(28:05):
my life or any decision, what I did was is
I took looked around, I gathered the best information I
could at the time, and I made the best decision
I could at the time. So instead of looking back
and going, oh, man, you know, should have could have would,
I don't because I know I made the best decision
at that point in time that I thought would help me.
And then I just keep moving forward. So I try
to stay in the present today and and worry about
(28:28):
tomorrow tomorrow. Like I said, there is a lot more
to Rick ankiel story. Rick worked his way back to
the big leagues and played eight years as an outfielder.
Now you may not know baseball, but that does not
happen very often, especially for a guy who's yips destroyed
his pitching. How did he do it? Hard work, dedication,
(28:51):
and believing that I could do it. I think it.
You know, you you want to get to a place
where you believe it can happen um and that just
allows your body, you know, to be in the best
position it can be to make it happen. If you
don't believe, you're gonna have a hard time with it, right,
because then doubt creeps in, and you know, the woe
(29:13):
is me starts to happen. Oh I'm never gonna be
good enough. Oh this isn't gonna happen. Everybody's better than me. Well,
if you start talking or coaching yourself that way, your
body is gonna start to believe it, because it doesn't
know the difference of if you're being serious or not.
It just it just starts hearing that language and just
start eroting your own confidence and your own trust in yourself.
(29:34):
And so for me that I think that's it. The
hard work that I put in was like talented, sure
of course, but it was the hard work in the
belief that I could make it back, and he did.
We'll be back after this. You're listening to Losing Control
from Sports Illustrated Studios. I'm justin suh. You've heard about
(29:57):
the yips, and you've heard from Rick Ankio, who had
what is arguably the most famous case of the yips
in the last twenty years. Now, I want to go
back to Tyler Matt Sick who's dealing with this today
and who just pitched what may have been the highest
pressure inning of his life so far. Here's a little reminder.
First round draft pick in two thousand and nine World
(30:18):
Series champion, and he did so with the yips. So, Tyler,
when you're growing up as a kid Southern California, did
you always dream about being a baseball player? Was this
always plan a? I mean, I think growing up, as
like you said, in Southern California, baseball is kind of
just in everybody's blood here. You know, all the kids
(30:39):
love playing baseball, we play a year round, and U yeah,
it was always a dream to be able to do
that for a living. Um, it didn't become a you know,
a truly attainable goal until high school. But I mean
every kid growing up thinks about playing in the World
Series or you know, being an All Star just you
know and good at baseball. So yeah, I was definitely
(31:02):
the goal or something I was always striving to as
a child. And when I got to high school, I
was able to actually kind of see the end of
the rainbow, like, oh, actually I could possibly do this
for her job. It's not just a dream, it's you know,
now it's a goal. Got it pretty utifully. Pitch ye
five strike gaps for fastic. In two thousand fourteen, Tyler
(31:25):
Matzick made his major league debut against the Atlanta Braves.
His first game as a major league pitcher was incredible.
He went seven innings, only gave up five hits to
earned runs and seven strikeouts. But here is the best
out of them all. He didn't walk a single batter.
The following season, things took a turn for the worse.
(31:48):
I realized I had an issue or the yips, the truth.
I remember, like the first round of catcher, I truly
looked at myself and said, I have the yips. It
was two thousand fifteen spring training. My throwing partner was
Chad Vettis. I was a starter with the Rockies, and
I was just trying to like be real easy and
throw the ball to him. And I was all over
the place, and I'm sitting there going like, oh my gosh, okay, well,
(32:11):
I don't know what's going on. I feel like there's
a disconnect between my brain and my arm and my hand.
It got to a point where I was like I
just wanted to figure out, like what the heck was
going on. Initially, Tyler thought it was a physical issue,
and for a little while, I thought I had a
brain tumor. I thought I had t o S, which
is we call thorastic outlet syndrome, which is basically a
(32:32):
pinch nerve between your neck and your collar bone. I
thought maybe that was it. So I was looking at
medical doctors all the time. They told me that there's
nothing there. When you first started to struggle with it,
what were some of the things that you tried to
help even if it was And you look back, You're like,
that was crazy, but you were willing to try it. Oh, man,
(32:53):
I tried anything and everything I tried, uh, and it's
worked for some people that I think a lot of
the stuff just didn't work for me. But I've heard
some people having success with this stuff, so obviously I
was willing to try it. But there's this thing called tapping,
when you start like tapping on different parts of your body,
and I don't even know what the idea is, but
I think it's still like reconnect your body with your
mind so that you can feel where you're being touched
(33:15):
and like your body. I don't know, it's a tapping program.
I tried it. I was sitting there going like dude,
this and like I'm just touching my body like my shoulder,
my chest, my arm, like trying to figure out like
it just it didn't make sense to me. Heavy meditation,
where you spend an hour or so meditating a day,
that definitely helps to relax me get rid of some
(33:36):
of the anxiety, but it didn't solve the yips so
much for me. I mean not that the meditation wasn't
good for me. It definitely helped me calm down and
relax the negative thoughts inside my head and all that stuff,
so that was good. I did that. I tried floating
in salt baths kind of like another form of meditation,
(33:56):
to kind of just completely take everything away from my brain,
the stimulation and just sit in like a floating pool
of water. It basically feels like you're floating in space.
I've tried laying on crystal mats trying to recenter my
shock grow kind of thing. That didn't work. I tried
a neurotherapy where I was trying to realign my wavelengths
in my brain or I put these basically this jelled
(34:18):
skull mask, skull cap kind of thing on and then
I play a game with my brain waves while I'm
watching the screen trying to like make the make certain
tasks happen. Man, you think about it. If you ever
heard of something that tried to fix the yips, I've
probably tried it. You're sharing some things that I have
seen some of people do this, and to your point,
(34:40):
you're right, some people do these and it works for them.
And I really appreciate the fact that you said that
you're not knocking anything. You're saying you were willing to
try everything. Did it ever cross your mind that you
just needed to give up? I kind of just I
got almost like depressed, like a Okay, well it's all
(35:00):
worked for all these guys, and how it was it
not working for me? So yeah, the thought of quitting
or not, you know, I guess I'm just never gonna
it's never gonna work for me. I'm going to be done.
Obviously crossed into my mind. Did it affect you off
the field as well? Infected my mental health off the field? Absolutely.
I would bring home that negativity that I was feeling
all day at the field, and then I would just
(35:21):
never have a break. I would sit there researching it
for hours. I would sit there thinking about what I
did the past, sit there thinking about why is it
doing this? And it's just it's on your mind two
seven and you can't get away from it. And it's
it's exhausting. It's really what it is. It's exhausting. Could
you articulate a lowest moment, a point where you're like
(35:45):
I wanted this serious, say despair or rock bottom? Can
you remember when you were at your lowest when it
came to navigating through the yips? Oh? Yeah, absolutely, That's
an easy uh in question to answer, honestly. I mean,
we're emotional creatures and we have memories tied to pain
or to emotions, and pain is one of the stronger emotions.
And the pain of two thousand seventeen when I got
(36:09):
released from the White Sox and didn't play at all
during that season. I'm sitting there waiting for a team
to call, and when they nobody called, and it was September.
The pain of me realizing like, all right, well, I
guess I'm done with baseball. Like nobody called me, no
team wanted to pick me up. I guess I'm done.
And I had been sitting there in my mind for
maybe about a week or so before I brought this
(36:29):
up to my wife and I said, uh, I think
I'm done with baseball. You know, nobody's called me. I
don't think anybody's gonna want me. I can't even play catch,
Like I'm not a baseball player. At this point, I
think I'm gonna go back to school. You know, she
kind of breaks down crying. It goes no, I think
that you have more to offer the game. I really
think you should keep going. You know, let's do it.
(36:51):
We can, we can make it kind of thing. And
you know I sat there and thought like, all right,
I'm gonna enjoy this at all, but if she can
go through the pain and so offering that's going to
take to do this, And she kind of gave me
the okay, like yeah, it's fine, Like yeah, when she
sold me, she kind of gave me the okay, like financially,
we'll figure it out. I was just like, if she's
gonna go through that suffering, in that pain, why can't I. Yeah,
(37:12):
that was definitely the rock bottom moment for me. But
it it sparked getting out of that rock bottom moment
by just somebody believing in me and and trusting and
giving me a little bit of confidence to go, hey,
we're gonna be fine, go ahead, let's do this. And yeah.
So I look back on it as like a very
dark and sad time, but it also, I think was
(37:32):
the time that that springboarded me to the rest of
my life. You know where Tyler Mattick is today. He
just won a World Series. But how did he get there? Yeah,
so you talked about the things that didn't really work
for me, you know, the meditation and the tapping and
(37:52):
all this stuff. We never really got into what did
work for me. On the next episode of Losing Control,
how Tyler Matzick beat the yips and what he learned
along the way, featuring the mental performance coach who helped
him get there. Next time on Losing Control, a sincere
thank you to our guests, Tyler Mattic relief picture for
(38:14):
the World Series champion Atlanta Braves, Stephanie Apstein, a senior
writer as Sports Illustrated, and the one and only Rick Ankiel.
For more on Rick and his incredible story, check out
his fantastic book, The Phenomenon, Pressure, The Yips, and the
Pitch That Change My Life. Thank you so much for
(38:37):
listening and don't forget to rate and subscribe. I'm Justin Suah,
your host, and you can find me on Instagram and
Twitter at Justin Sua. That's j U s t I
N s u A. You could also check me out
on the Increase Your Impact podcast. Losing Control is a
podcast from Sports Illustrated Studios and I Heart Radio. Original
(39:01):
music by Jerem Suet. Michael McDowell is our producer, editing
and mixing by Will Stanton. This episode was fact checked
by Zoe Mullick at SI Studios. Max Miller is supervising
producer and Matt Lipson is executive producer at I Heart Radio.
Sean ty Toone is our executive producer. For more podcasts
(39:21):
from I Heart Radio, visit the I heart Radio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This podcast
does not provide medical advice, and nothing you here on
this podcast is intended or implied to be a substitute
for professional medical consultation, diagnosis, or treatment. Always seek the
advice of your physician or other qualified health provider with
(39:45):
any questions you may have regarding your health. Never disregard
professional medical advice or delay in seeking it. Because of
something you have heard on this podcast,
It's hard to to tell somebody, to explain it to
somebody who hasn't gone through it. I like to tell
people it's like waking up one day and you can
write your name. It's easy. You don't even to think
about it. You just write your name. But if you
woke up the next day and you couldn't even hold
the pen, you're not even close to writing at that point.
You can't hold the pen, you physically cannot do it.
(00:21):
For some reason, you go to grab it and it
just falls out of your hand. It's the most confusing,
confusing thing that you can possibly think about, because it's
something you've done your entire life. You've trained, you spent
countless note of hours, and then all of a sudden
you can't do the most simple task. That's Tyler mat
Sick talking about one of the strangest experiences in sports,
(00:41):
the yips. Now you might remember Tyler from the World Series,
where he played a critical role in helping the Atlanta
Brave secure a World Series title. I struck out ends
this set my dead looking and he struck out the
side dominant from electrics in the legend. Tyler is a
(01:08):
World Series champion. He's known by his teammates for being
a bulldog on the mound. He's known for his electric fastball.
He's known for being the kind of player who can
get his team out of tight situations. But not long ago,
he was about to walk away from it all, not
because he didn't love baseball anymore, but because he lost
(01:29):
his ability to throw. I remember, like the first round
of catch, read truly looked at myself and said, I
have the yep. It was two thousan fifteen spring training.
My throwing partner was Chad Bettis. I was a starter
with the Rockies. I was just trying to like be
real easy and throw the ball to him, and I
was all over the place. And I'm sitting there going like,
oh my gosh, Okay, well, I don't know what's going on.
(01:51):
I feel like there's a disconnect between my brain and
my arm and my hand, you know, Honestly, Like in
the beginning, it was more just like what the hecks
going on? On? Like do I have a pinch nerve somewhere?
Do I have a brain tumor? What is what is
going on? There's something that is not in my control
that is happening. And then it slowly turned just slowly
(02:12):
turned for the worst from that point on, slowly eight
away at me until I was out of baseball. So
I want you to imagine doing something writing, walking, typing,
something you've done your entire life over and over again.
Now imagine not being able to do that thing. You
(02:32):
have no idea why, you have no idea how long
it's gonna last for, and you have no idea how
to get that ability back. That is the YIPS. I'm
Justin Sua, and this is losing control. My name is
(02:55):
Justin Sua, and I've been around for a little bit. Today,
I'm the head of mental Performance for the Tampa Bay Rays,
and for the past decade, I've had the tremendous opportunity
to work with some of the best athletes in the world.
Have been part of the World Series, have stood on
the sidelines at the NFL, have been part of the
NFL Draft, to have seen w w E wrestler's backstage.
(03:18):
I've seen athletes when championships, and I have seen athletes
experience the agony of defeat. The reason I care so
much about the YIPS is because I have seen it firsthand.
I have seen how the YIPS has caused a professional
athlete to not just question their path, but to question
their identity. I've seen how it has affected them on
(03:40):
and off the field. Sometimes you watch olympians or elite
athletes and think, I'm nothing like them, I can never
be like that. While that may be true in some cases,
you might not be as fast, you might not be
as strong. But one thing you're going to hear as
each one of these athletes navigated through their yips, you're
going to notice that they're very similar to you, having
(04:03):
to navigate, not feeling confident, having to learn how to
focus on what they can control, having to identify what
their purposes and reidentify what their purposes. As you listen
to their stories, it's gonna feel relatable. The yips are
a broad topic and it is a multifaceted issue. As
(04:26):
a result, we're gonna give you multiple perspectives. You are
going to hear from elite athletes, but you're also going
to hear from coaches, sports psychologists, neuroscientists, writers, and you're
even going to hear from a concert pianist. Losing Control
is a podcast about losing control of an ability, of
your life, and maybe even of who you are because
(04:48):
that's what the yips due to the people who face it.
Over the next ten episodes, you'll hear a series of
perspectives that not only shed a light on one of
the greatest mysteries and sports, but on how we live
our lives and whether you're an athlete or not. All
of our guests will leave you with something that you
can incorporate into your life, because it's not just about
(05:09):
losing control, it's about getting it back. So let's get started.
My name is Stephanie Apstein and I am a senior writer.
It's Sports Illustrated For those who do not know, Can
you tell us what the yips are? The yips are
the sudden, inexplicable inability to do something easy. So for
a golfer, that might be lose the ability to put
(05:30):
for a picture, that might be the ability to find
the strike zone. I personally, as a writer, have sometimes
felt like suddenly I can't form sentences, I think anything
where you should be able to do it, and all
of a sudden, for reasons you don't understand, you can't.
I'm curious, I think you, I think correct me if
I'm wrong. You've been writing about the yips since at least,
(05:51):
how did you even get into writing about and researching
the yips and its effect on professional athletes. It was
John Luster actually, so you're right on the timing because
it was the World Series. John Lester is a picture
who had a very successful Major league career. He made
his debut with the Boston Red Sox in two thousand
and six. Then he went to the A's, the Cubs,
(06:13):
the Washington Nationals, and he retired recently with the St.
Louis Cardinals. He's a five time All Star, a three
time World Series champion, and he threw a no hitter
back in two thousand eight when he was a member
of the Boston Red Sox. However, there was one problem.
Lester struggled to throw the ball at the first base.
(06:35):
This sort of blew up initially in during the A
l Wild Card game. It was sort of the thing
that people knew in baseball a little bit maybe that
John Lester couldn't throw a first base. But during wild
Card game, the Royals ran constantly on him strolling very
surely yard were the Royals were saying before the game,
(06:57):
John Luster does not throw over? And then what what
was so astonishing to me is he just kept pitching,
and he just kept being good. I remember during the
World Series watching him. That was the first World Series
I had really covered, and I remember thinking, like I
just couldn't understand how this was happening. Everything I had
understood to that point about the yips was that you
(07:18):
either had to recover or retire, and he seemed to
be doing neither. And so that offseason I tried to
read everything I could about it. I just couldn't understand
how he could do it. And I realized that I
hadn't really read anything that looked at that particularly, and
I wondered, actually, if anybody had ever asked John Lester
if indeed he had the yips and what it felt like,
(07:39):
And so I thought maybe I should try to write that.
Stephanie's piece, which appeared in Sports Illustrated in May of seventeen,
was called John Lester didn't just beat the yips, He
improved once the secret was out. I think sometimes people
look at the yips and they think it's weakness. But
I came away from writing about John Lester thinking this
was actually one of the strongest mental feats I had
(08:02):
ever seen, that he was navigating this potentially embarrassing, frightening, frustrating,
really problematic situation, and having some of the best years
of his career after everybody knew this, this terrible thing.
Getting the yips has nothing to do with how mentally
tough you are, and even the most talented athletes are susceptible.
(08:22):
I would love to talk about Simone Biles. Now, many
of our listeners, they may remember that she suddenly exited
Tokyo Olympics. What happened? People kept talking about she had
pulled out because of her mental health, and she pulled
out it almost I think people made it sound like
it's like smoke got sad or small got scared, and
(08:43):
so she decided to like do self care, which is
not really all what was happening. Um, can can you
talk about the technical part of that vault? You tried?
What happened and what were you attempting? And what happened?
I was trying it's you and a half, and I
ended up doing the one and a half, just got
(09:04):
a little bit lost from the air. What happened it
was this is essentially the gymnastics form of the yips.
She lost the ability to figure out where she was
in space, and that is really scary for a picture.
It's scary for quarterback, it's scary for a golfer, and
it is potentially satal for a gymnast. If you don't
know where you are in space, you could break your neck.
(09:25):
That is not you know, if if John Lester can't
get the ball the first space, he's not going to die.
He may feel like he's going to die, but he's
not going to die. Smobobs could actually have died. And
so she pulled out because she had to figure out
how to get through this particular phenomenon called the twisties,
which is the thing that happens to many gymnasts and
gymnasts immediately when they heard her. Some of them didn't
(09:45):
even need to hear her. They just saw the look
in her eyes and they knew exactly what that was,
that feeling that you are lost in space, that the
whole thing that has gotten you as far as you
have gotten, is your spatial awareness, and suddenly it is
totally gone. Stephanie actually spoke with Simone Biles in August
for an s I cover story. It was called How
(10:07):
Simone Biles Came Back to win the Bronze of her
life Now gymnastics in baseball aren't the only sports where
you find the yips. I think the hips are way
more prevalent than we realize. Um, that's one thing that
I have learned once I once I sort of adopted
this is my favorite topic. A lot of people just
can kind of get away with it. So I think
(10:28):
probably the answer is they are everywhere, but they are
most commonly seen. Golf is the big one. Just your
parts are suddenly yanked in the wrong direction. We love
the chipping yips that we see that fairly frequently. Certainly
in baseball you see it from with a picture. You
see it with an infielder who can't get the ball
to first. Sometimes the catcher can't get the ball to second.
(10:49):
Sometimes the catcher can't get the ball back to the picture.
Those are big ones. You see it less in outfielders,
but I imagine it's there as well. And then you've
seen it. We've seen it with quarterbacks sometimes him sometimes kickers.
You certainly see it with free throws in basketball. I
think there are a lot of places that some elements
of the yifts show up. That is fascinating. Now, with
(11:12):
that being said, we might have some people who are
listening to this and their skeptical They're thinking, what do
you mean you can't throw the ball at first space?
What do you mean you can't swing a golf club,
What do you mean you can't throw a dart, you
can't write a sentence? What do you say the person
who questions if it's really real or not? Yeah, I
(11:34):
get that. I think that's sort of a natural reaction
because it does defy reason, and I think that was
the reaction for a long time. I mean, I think
it's only recently that these guys are not maybe not
laughed at, but I think the reaction from teammates and
peers is very different now than it was twenty years ago,
where it was seen as a sort of a moral failing. Now,
(11:55):
I think people understand that you can't help it. And
I guess the two things I would say are, one,
what circumstances would somebody want this, you know, like this
idea that they can't possibly be choosing to not be
able to do this thing. That would be insane. And
then the other thing, if that doesn't make you believe
it is. You're pretty good at breathing, right, That's something
(12:15):
that you do a lot of think about breathing, and
then all of a sudden, it's a lot harder to
remember how to breathe. It doesn't feel natural anymore. You
can't remember what your body usually does. That's also true
of walking, of anything like that. As soon as you
start thinking too much about it, you lose whatever the
muscle memory is. And I think that is part of
what happens in the yips, that once once, whatever this
(12:37):
thing is, once it happens, you can't figure out how
to get out of it because thinking is problematic. You
want not to think, and so once you start thinking
about it, you lose the ability to do it. We'll
be back after this. I'm just in SUA and you're
listening to Losing control. Before the break. You heard about
(13:01):
the yips, what it's like, the sports where it comes up,
and for the skeptics out there, one perspective on just
how real this is. For those who experience it, it's
about who you are and the stakes couldn't be higher. Now,
if you've heard of the yips or you follow baseball,
chances are you know the story of our next guest. Hi.
(13:22):
This is Rick Ankiel, former Major league baseball player. I
was a picture for eight years, and then I was
an outfielder for eight years. Rick Ankiel was able to
get back in the baseball after the Yips knocked him
out of it. I want people to know what I
went through, because, yeah, that was me and I was lost.
It was a lonely dark place. Um. You know, I've
(13:44):
I've said this before, but going through the throwing issues
and where I was, how lost I was. I wouldn't
wish that on anybody. Now, when he says throwing issues,
he's referring to the yips. That's just how dark it was.
I mean, you're you know, suicidal thoughts, and um, I
felt like I was in a mental prison for five
years and there's no worse place to be. And you're
(14:07):
as alone as you can be. I mean, that's just
what it is. You may have help throughout the day,
but you know, when you go home at night, you're
by yourself. And when you wake up in the middle
of the night with nightmares and your drinks in sweat
and your heart's racing a thousand miles an hour, you're
by yourself. That's the loneliest place you can be. So
I want people to understand that because yeah, that was me.
(14:28):
That's what I went through. But this is where I
am now today. Rick is living the good life in
beautiful Florida, just like me. So let's rewind a little bit.
Before he got the yips, Rick Ankio was living the dream.
He was a young baseball prodigy with electric stuff and
he signed a pro contract straight out of high school.
(14:48):
At the time, I was living in the greatest dream ever.
My goal was not to be a major leaguer, but
to be the best left handed pitcher that's ever stepped
onto the mount and that's exactly what was was happening.
I was following the yellow brick road, working harder everything.
Like you know, it doesn't always go that way, right,
You can't just outwork the game. But it felt like
(15:09):
I would just keep working harder and harder, and I
just kept getting better and better. There's a phrase in
professional baseball that goes, if you want to make it
to the next level, dominate the level you're at, and
that's exactly what Rick did. It just felt like the
harder I worked, the better I was getting. It just
kept paying off and every every level I went to
(15:31):
a ball high A dominated, went to Double A, dominated,
went to Triple A, dominating, got to the big leagues,
um dominating again. So it just felt like, you know,
everything I had ever dreamed of was coming true right
in front of me. He debuted for the St. Louis
Cardinals when he was just twenty years old. The next year,
he pitched his first full season. The Cardinals won their
(15:54):
division that year, and it gave Rick a big chance.
I'm thinking, I have a chance to be one of
the best pitchers who's ever stepped onto a baseball field.
It's not like I felt this coming or you could
see signs of it. I was in the pitching the
first game of the playoffs. I was twenty one years old.
I got a chance to pitch against the Atlanta Braves,
which is my team, my heroes, and I'm starting against
(16:16):
Greg Maddox, and really, it felt like this is gonna
be my coming out party. I'm gonna get a chance
to show the world who and what I can be
and what I am right now. I asked Rick if
he felt the pressure, not at all. I didn't feel pressure.
I felt like, this is where I'm supposed to be.
This is destiny, and I'm gonna go out here and
throw a no hitter and take Greg Maddox deep, I'm
(16:38):
gonna show everybody who I am. So it wasn't like
I felt all this crazy pressure. I felt like I
was exactly where I was supposed to be at the
right time, at the exact moment, and God placed me
there for a reason. That's what I felt like. I
felt like I was invincible, and We're gonna go on
and win the World Series. I'm gonna win this game.
We're gonna beat the Braves, We're gonna go on and
breat the Mets, and then we're onto the World Series
and we're gonna win it. And it's and I'm gonna
(16:59):
do everything. I'm my power, um to be the best
pitcher there was. And even coming down the stretch, so
I was feeling the flow. I was in the zone.
I was in that flow state of feeling like everything
is perfect, this is the best I've pitched the entire year. Um.
So everything for me in that moment felt like it
was exactly what it was supposed to be. Rick started
(17:20):
Game one of the two thousand National League Division Series,
and at first things were going pretty well until suddenly
they weren't. I threw one pitch, it wasn't even a
bad pitch. I threw a I threw a cutter in
and it cut a little bit more than normal, But
it really wasn't It wasn't a terrial pitch whatsoever. But
you know, in in my mind, all of a sudden,
(17:40):
I was like, man, I just threw a wild pitch
on National TV, and all of a sudden, pitches just
started to spiral out of control. Another wild pitch, over
the head of hernandals and back to the back stog. Well,
all of the sudden things just kind of on ravel
deal for Rick add Deel. One bad pitch leads to
another and another, and a net there. All the keys
(18:01):
I had from a mechanical standpoint, whether it was keep
my weight back, keep my shoulder closed, thing that I
had just learned over time that always got me back
on track to throw strikes, just weren't working. And I, honestly,
at that time, at that age, at twenty one, I
didn't even know what the word anxiety meant, and I
had no clue. And I thought, you know what, I
may remember seeing to the media after the game, that
(18:23):
you know, what is your mechanical issue? This will never
happen again. Blah blah, blah. Well, little did I know
what was actually really happening. And to be quite frank,
I was. I was never the same. Rick was pulled
from the game, and afterward then Cardinals manager Tony LaRussa
try to convince Rick to come off the roster the
rest of the postseason. At the time, I was in denial.
(18:45):
I didn't understand what was happening. And Tony Lrusa called
me into the office and he goes, hey, I think
that's you know, after the first game that I started
throwing balls all over here, I think that's good. Let's
just shut the season down. Um, you know, let's just
let's just hit pause and and you'll just you know,
you'll be here with us, but you know, let's not
pitch you. Up to this point, Rick was on top
of the world. His stuff was electric, He was dominant,
(19:08):
and some even thought he was on pace to being
one of the best pitchers ever and he was only
twenty one years old. The Cardinals beat the Braves and
would go on to face the medic in the National
League Championship Series, the set of games that determines which
team goes onto the World Series. I threw a bullpen
in between that start, and when we were going to
(19:28):
play the Mets, and my bullpen was lights out. I
was perfect. A bullpen is a practice pitching session, but
as we know in sports, a perfect practice doesn't guarantee
you're going to be perfect in the game. Rick was
ready to pitch, but Tony Larusa, the manager, wasn't so sure.
So I argued with him, I'm like, absolutely not. This
is my start. I'm taking it. It's my ball, I
(19:50):
want it. I'm good to go. Give me the ball. Um.
And then I went out there to start against the Mets,
and you know, the anxiety in the pressure. Now there's
something that I've that I've definitely league. I've never felt
that's it was just a different feeling. Um, you know.
But I was still as hopeful as you could be
and thought that I'm gonna beat that. If anything, I
can beat it with mechanics. I understand my mechanics so
(20:12):
well that, you know, let's say, if you were to
build account like you were dancing right foot back one, two, three, four,
that I could be able to just use my mechanics
to get the ball to go where I wanted. Around
these parts, the fans and the Cardinals themselves wondering what
in the world they're gonna get out of their young
one year old left hander Rick an Keeler starts tonight.
(20:33):
I remember this game vividly. I remember where I was sitting,
I remember who I was with. I was a pictur
in college and was watching it with my teammates, and
at the time I really didn't grasp what was going on.
But as I was watching Rick struggle to throw strikes
in a way, it was kind of reassuring for me
as a young college pitcher, because I thought to myself,
(20:55):
even the best in the world can have a bad
game from time to time. And it wasn't until I
heard Rick Ankiel's voice more than twenty two years later
that I really began to understand what happened. I threw
a while pitch, the pressure came. I could feel my
body locking up. I still didn't understand really what anxiety was,
but I was starting to see, Okay, something's something's not right.
(21:19):
This isn't mechanics. Come on, this is he's lost all
his mechanics and he can't get the ball to the
point where the catcher could even catch it. The Cardinals
ended up losing, but the media frenzy had just begun,
so that first spring training, even trying to play catch,
you know, like when I would show up at the
(21:39):
park and I go to play catch, this is the
beginning of spring training. We're not even playing games yet.
There's fifty cameras. They're um just waiting for me to
throw one away. I mean, those are going to be
the headlines today. The media loves a mystery, and we
as consumers of media, don't always think about the impact
of that story on the person who's actually living it.
(21:59):
It would be a lot easier to say, oh, I
blew out my shoulder and I had a physical injury
because everybody could see it. But it's like it's having
an injury to your brain that nobody can see, and
all of a sudden, it feels like there's a puppet
master above you, controlling you and won't allow you to
do what you've always done. I remember, you know, when
I'm out there trying to throw a strike, I'm holding
(22:19):
the ball, I'm looking at it, but I can't feel
my hand, And when I would go to release the ball,
try to throw the ball right through that release point,
it was almost as if I would black out. And
have a miniature Caesar and then all of a sudden
you're looking at the catcher hoping that he caught it
or where did the ball go? Um. So it's a terrifying,
lonely place to be. That That's how I would describe
the hips. For years, Rick Ankio was known as being
(22:42):
an elite pitcher. Pitching and pitching well wasn't just something
he did. It embodied who he was. Well, you know,
I've gotten real good at and I think a lot
of athletes are the same bit. Hiding my emotions, right,
whether I'm not feeling good or not, I'm not going
to let you know that. I'm out there, standing out
there like I'm the baddest guy on the field. And
(23:04):
all of a sudden it became that that wall got exploded.
There's no wall I could put up to fake it,
and people could see into it. Felt like people we
could see into my soul. It was just like, you know,
like I had no clothes on and I'm standing out
there naked and everybody's laughing at it. My world was shattered. Um,
(23:25):
My confidence had none. UM felt vulnerable. Lost. I mean
lost is the biggest word. And I can remember, you know, again,
this is two thousand one, so this is the first
spring training after I went through the throwing stuff in
the playoffs. I mean, I'm waking up and it's to
the point where I get out of bed, roll out
of bed, and I think to myself, hmm, did I
(23:46):
always get out of bed on this side? And then
I got to brush my teeth. Did I always brush
my teeth like this? Or did I do it like that?
And maybe that'll make me be a better picture. And
even at the time when I was doing it, I'm
saying to myself, this is ridiculous, and this is crazy,
but what's going through your mind? It became so obsessive
to try to figure out how to throw strikes again
(24:07):
that it was like my whole world was turned upside down,
and you know, you're starting to second guess yourself and
everything you do. Everything I did, it was like, well, wait,
did I used to do it like this or should I?
You know, it's it's um, you know, it's hard to
even put into words, but that's just how lost I was.
(24:28):
People say it's just a game, but sometimes it's more
than that. It wasn't even a game anymore. It was survival.
It was how do I survive the twenty one hours
around the day to get back to the park, and
then when I get there, how do I survive that
those times? There wasn't you know I would say that
(24:51):
that use the word game. It wasn't a game. I
felt like I was trying to survive life. Um, even
though it is a game. That's how deep and dark
that that stuff can go. I was never the same
as far as being that invincible picture out there on
the mound where nothing bothered me and I felt like
(25:11):
I could strike anyone out, I could beat anybody. Um
that that leaked out and was gone forever. All of
this led to a very difficult decision for Rick. He's
still with the St. Louis Cardinals and Tony LaRussa is
still the manager. As soon as I walked out of
Tony Larissa's office saying you know, this is it. I
can't do I don't want to do this anymore, I
(25:31):
felt like this giant weight was taken off me. I
could finally take a deep breath. In that moment, I
had no idea what I was gonna do. But also
in that moment, I knew right then and there I
made the right decision, and and by giving up the
only thing I ever wanted, I got myself back, which
is what I always wanted. By giving it the only
(25:53):
thing he ever wanted, Rick got himself back. For me
to find the courage to retire or quit or whatever
you want to say, was that that was the hardest
thing I've ever done baseball was I didn't know how
to let go. So the courage to go in there
and actually do that was probably one of the biggest
moments in my life, just because I got the courage
(26:15):
to do it. Imagine loving something so much and getting
so far where you can taste it, where you're experiencing it,
and then all of a sudden, for reasons outside of
your control, you have to walk away. There's a lot
more to Rick Ankile story, so much more than we
can go into today. But I want to make sure
you heard something. When we're talking about the Yips, We're
(26:38):
not just talking about some mysterious ailments. We're talking about
a life changing experience that cuts to the core of
who a person is. How do you face something like that?
You know, for me, one of the you know, the
thing that I'm the most proud of is that I
just I kept showing up every day. I never gave up.
And their days when I didn't have hope, but for
(27:02):
the most part, I had hope. And if you know,
if you lose hope, I think you lose everything. Right,
you have to have the hope that you can overcome
this or you can make the world a better place,
and you know you can do your part um because
if you lose that, I think that you know you're lost,
and it just makes things a lot harder. Does he
(27:22):
even think about what could have happened if he never
got the yips every now and again. I mean, I
guess I would say I would wonder what the picture
and me would have become. I had really, really good stuff.
I was blessed from God with an unbelievable arm um.
So sure do I want to see what those numbers
and what that would have looked like? Of course. But
on the other side of that, when I look back
(27:44):
at all those times and in the good times, the
bad times, at the dark times, what I remind myself
is this is that hindsight is undefeated, and I don't
look back and beat myself up about it, or I
should have done this, or I could have done that,
and maybe this would have been different. Because what I
what I understand and embrace is that at at every
time I ever had to make a big decision in
(28:05):
my life or any decision, what I did was is
I took looked around, I gathered the best information I
could at the time, and I made the best decision
I could at the time. So instead of looking back
and going, oh, man, you know, should have could have would,
I don't because I know I made the best decision
at that point in time that I thought would help me.
And then I just keep moving forward. So I try
to stay in the present today and and worry about
(28:28):
tomorrow tomorrow. Like I said, there is a lot more
to Rick ankiel story. Rick worked his way back to
the big leagues and played eight years as an outfielder.
Now you may not know baseball, but that does not
happen very often, especially for a guy who's yips destroyed
his pitching. How did he do it? Hard work, dedication,
(28:51):
and believing that I could do it. I think it.
You know, you you want to get to a place
where you believe it can happen um and that just
allows your body, you know, to be in the best
position it can be to make it happen. If you
don't believe, you're gonna have a hard time with it, right,
because then doubt creeps in, and you know, the woe
(29:13):
is me starts to happen. Oh I'm never gonna be
good enough. Oh this isn't gonna happen. Everybody's better than me. Well,
if you start talking or coaching yourself that way, your
body is gonna start to believe it, because it doesn't
know the difference of if you're being serious or not.
It just it just starts hearing that language and just
start eroting your own confidence and your own trust in yourself.
(29:34):
And so for me that I think that's it. The
hard work that I put in was like talented, sure
of course, but it was the hard work in the
belief that I could make it back, and he did.
We'll be back after this. You're listening to Losing Control
from Sports Illustrated Studios. I'm justin suh. You've heard about
(29:57):
the yips, and you've heard from Rick Ankio, who had
what is arguably the most famous case of the yips
in the last twenty years. Now, I want to go
back to Tyler Matt Sick who's dealing with this today
and who just pitched what may have been the highest
pressure inning of his life so far. Here's a little reminder.
First round draft pick in two thousand and nine World
(30:18):
Series champion, and he did so with the yips. So, Tyler,
when you're growing up as a kid Southern California, did
you always dream about being a baseball player? Was this
always plan a? I mean, I think growing up, as
like you said, in Southern California, baseball is kind of
just in everybody's blood here. You know, all the kids
(30:39):
love playing baseball, we play a year round, and U yeah,
it was always a dream to be able to do
that for a living. Um, it didn't become a you know,
a truly attainable goal until high school. But I mean
every kid growing up thinks about playing in the World
Series or you know, being an All Star just you
know and good at baseball. So yeah, I was definitely
(31:02):
the goal or something I was always striving to as
a child. And when I got to high school, I
was able to actually kind of see the end of
the rainbow, like, oh, actually I could possibly do this
for her job. It's not just a dream, it's you know,
now it's a goal. Got it pretty utifully. Pitch ye
five strike gaps for fastic. In two thousand fourteen, Tyler
(31:25):
Matzick made his major league debut against the Atlanta Braves.
His first game as a major league pitcher was incredible.
He went seven innings, only gave up five hits to
earned runs and seven strikeouts. But here is the best
out of them all. He didn't walk a single batter.
The following season, things took a turn for the worse.
(31:48):
I realized I had an issue or the yips, the truth.
I remember, like the first round of catcher, I truly
looked at myself and said, I have the yips. It
was two thousand fifteen spring training. My throwing partner was
Chad Vettis. I was a starter with the Rockies, and
I was just trying to like be real easy and
throw the ball to him. And I was all over
the place, and I'm sitting there going like, oh my gosh, okay, well,
(32:11):
I don't know what's going on. I feel like there's
a disconnect between my brain and my arm and my hand.
It got to a point where I was like I
just wanted to figure out, like what the heck was
going on. Initially, Tyler thought it was a physical issue,
and for a little while, I thought I had a
brain tumor. I thought I had t o S, which
is we call thorastic outlet syndrome, which is basically a
(32:32):
pinch nerve between your neck and your collar bone. I
thought maybe that was it. So I was looking at
medical doctors all the time. They told me that there's
nothing there. When you first started to struggle with it,
what were some of the things that you tried to
help even if it was And you look back, You're like,
that was crazy, but you were willing to try it. Oh, man,
(32:53):
I tried anything and everything I tried, uh, and it's
worked for some people that I think a lot of
the stuff just didn't work for me. But I've heard
some people having success with this stuff, so obviously I
was willing to try it. But there's this thing called tapping,
when you start like tapping on different parts of your body,
and I don't even know what the idea is, but
I think it's still like reconnect your body with your
mind so that you can feel where you're being touched
(33:15):
and like your body. I don't know, it's a tapping program.
I tried it. I was sitting there going like dude,
this and like I'm just touching my body like my shoulder,
my chest, my arm, like trying to figure out like
it just it didn't make sense to me. Heavy meditation,
where you spend an hour or so meditating a day,
that definitely helps to relax me get rid of some
(33:36):
of the anxiety, but it didn't solve the yips so
much for me. I mean not that the meditation wasn't
good for me. It definitely helped me calm down and
relax the negative thoughts inside my head and all that stuff,
so that was good. I did that. I tried floating
in salt baths kind of like another form of meditation,
(33:56):
to kind of just completely take everything away from my brain,
the stimulation and just sit in like a floating pool
of water. It basically feels like you're floating in space.
I've tried laying on crystal mats trying to recenter my
shock grow kind of thing. That didn't work. I tried
a neurotherapy where I was trying to realign my wavelengths
in my brain or I put these basically this jelled
(34:18):
skull mask, skull cap kind of thing on and then
I play a game with my brain waves while I'm
watching the screen trying to like make the make certain
tasks happen. Man, you think about it. If you ever
heard of something that tried to fix the yips, I've
probably tried it. You're sharing some things that I have
seen some of people do this, and to your point,
(34:40):
you're right, some people do these and it works for them.
And I really appreciate the fact that you said that
you're not knocking anything. You're saying you were willing to
try everything. Did it ever cross your mind that you
just needed to give up? I kind of just I
got almost like depressed, like a Okay, well it's all
(35:00):
worked for all these guys, and how it was it
not working for me? So yeah, the thought of quitting
or not, you know, I guess I'm just never gonna
it's never gonna work for me. I'm going to be done.
Obviously crossed into my mind. Did it affect you off
the field as well? Infected my mental health off the field? Absolutely.
I would bring home that negativity that I was feeling
all day at the field, and then I would just
(35:21):
never have a break. I would sit there researching it
for hours. I would sit there thinking about what I
did the past, sit there thinking about why is it
doing this? And it's just it's on your mind two
seven and you can't get away from it. And it's
it's exhausting. It's really what it is. It's exhausting. Could
you articulate a lowest moment, a point where you're like
(35:45):
I wanted this serious, say despair or rock bottom? Can
you remember when you were at your lowest when it
came to navigating through the yips? Oh? Yeah, absolutely, That's
an easy uh in question to answer, honestly. I mean,
we're emotional creatures and we have memories tied to pain
or to emotions, and pain is one of the stronger emotions.
And the pain of two thousand seventeen when I got
(36:09):
released from the White Sox and didn't play at all
during that season. I'm sitting there waiting for a team
to call, and when they nobody called, and it was September.
The pain of me realizing like, all right, well, I
guess I'm done with baseball. Like nobody called me, no
team wanted to pick me up. I guess I'm done.
And I had been sitting there in my mind for
maybe about a week or so before I brought this
(36:29):
up to my wife and I said, uh, I think
I'm done with baseball. You know, nobody's called me. I
don't think anybody's gonna want me. I can't even play catch,
Like I'm not a baseball player. At this point, I
think I'm gonna go back to school. You know, she
kind of breaks down crying. It goes no, I think
that you have more to offer the game. I really
think you should keep going. You know, let's do it.
(36:51):
We can, we can make it kind of thing. And
you know I sat there and thought like, all right,
I'm gonna enjoy this at all, but if she can
go through the pain and so offering that's going to
take to do this, And she kind of gave me
the okay, like yeah, it's fine, Like yeah, when she
sold me, she kind of gave me the okay, like financially,
we'll figure it out. I was just like, if she's
gonna go through that suffering, in that pain, why can't I. Yeah,
(37:12):
that was definitely the rock bottom moment for me. But
it it sparked getting out of that rock bottom moment
by just somebody believing in me and and trusting and
giving me a little bit of confidence to go, hey,
we're gonna be fine, go ahead, let's do this. And yeah.
So I look back on it as like a very
dark and sad time, but it also, I think was
(37:32):
the time that that springboarded me to the rest of
my life. You know where Tyler Mattick is today. He
just won a World Series. But how did he get there? Yeah,
so you talked about the things that didn't really work
for me, you know, the meditation and the tapping and
(37:52):
all this stuff. We never really got into what did
work for me. On the next episode of Losing Control,
how Tyler Matzick beat the yips and what he learned
along the way, featuring the mental performance coach who helped
him get there. Next time on Losing Control, a sincere
thank you to our guests, Tyler Mattic relief picture for
(38:14):
the World Series champion Atlanta Braves, Stephanie Apstein, a senior
writer as Sports Illustrated, and the one and only Rick Ankiel.
For more on Rick and his incredible story, check out
his fantastic book, The Phenomenon, Pressure, The Yips, and the
Pitch That Change My Life. Thank you so much for
(38:37):
listening and don't forget to rate and subscribe. I'm Justin Suah,
your host, and you can find me on Instagram and
Twitter at Justin Sua. That's j U s t I
N s u A. You could also check me out
on the Increase Your Impact podcast. Losing Control is a
podcast from Sports Illustrated Studios and I Heart Radio. Original
(39:01):
music by Jerem Suet. Michael McDowell is our producer, editing
and mixing by Will Stanton. This episode was fact checked
by Zoe Mullick at SI Studios. Max Miller is supervising
producer and Matt Lipson is executive producer at I Heart Radio.
Sean ty Toone is our executive producer. For more podcasts
(39:21):
from I Heart Radio, visit the I heart Radio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This podcast
does not provide medical advice, and nothing you here on
this podcast is intended or implied to be a substitute
for professional medical consultation, diagnosis, or treatment. Always seek the
advice of your physician or other qualified health provider with
(39:45):
any questions you may have regarding your health. Never disregard
professional medical advice or delay in seeking it. Because of
something you have heard on this podcast,
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