February 3, 2025 • 59 mins
Oh snap! Sweet niblets!
Have you ever wondered how some of your favorite Disney Channel shows came to life? The creator of “Hannah Montana” and “That’s So Raven,” Michael Poryes, joins Will and Sabrina to talk all about the magic behind the scenes.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:14):
Well, thank you so much everybody for joining us on
this amazing park Opper episode. I say it every week,
and I say it every week, and I say it
every week. Magical, amazing, incredible episode. But we keep getting
these guests that are just the best, whether they're in
front of the camera, They've written the script, they directed,
in this case, created two of the most popular shows
(00:37):
in the history of the channel.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
That changed the channel. They ibserved the channel into being
what we all love the Channel as it is today
like this with these were two big, big, big, big projects.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
I would argue one of them helped to change the
channel and the other one changed all of pop culture. Yeah,
I mean it's huge, huge, what this man is responsible for.
And we're so honored to have him here. We're not
going to wait another minute before we bring him in
because I don't want to leave him waiting because he's
just awesome and I'm so glad it's here. So can
you please help us welcome the creator of not only
(01:13):
that So Raven, but a little show called Hannah Montana
Michael Porrez. Hello, Hello, are you. I'm fine? Thank you
so much for joining us.
Speaker 3 (01:26):
Wow, my pleasure. I even wore my Hannah hat.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
I love it.
Speaker 3 (01:33):
I dove off a little bit and all of that.
Speaker 1 (01:36):
I love that. Well, don't put on a different color.
We might not recognize you.
Speaker 3 (01:39):
That's true.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
So we just reviewed the Hand of Montana movie, and
we are so honored to have you here to explain
how this juggernaut not only changed the channel but changed
all of pop culture. Really, I mean it became a job,
but it really did. I mean, it became It's put
it this way. I had I'd never seen the show.
I had never seen the film, but obviously knew everything
(02:04):
about Hannah Montana because it was in the zeitgeist. I mean,
it was everybody knew about it. So, I mean, before
I guess we get into that, we always like to
start with our guests of how did you find Hollywood?
Get into Hollywood? What was your origin story to finding
this amazing business of show?
Speaker 3 (02:24):
You know, it was always a part of me. My
grandfather was in the business of going back. He was
actually a pioneer in the business who his my great
grandfather started the first moving picture theater in Brooklyn.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
Oh you're kidding.
Speaker 3 (02:43):
And even before that, I'm related to my mother's name
and my grandfather's name was Harry Thomas, but that is
shortened for Thomaschevsky. And there was a Yiddish theater out
of Russia with Boris Tomashevsky. So I kind of come down.
(03:06):
In fact, Michael Tilson Thomas, the famous conductor, is a
second cousin. I've never met him. So it was always
in me. My uncle wrote, I don't know if you
remember something called the Bowery Boys.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
And course, of course Wrin Tin.
Speaker 3 (03:24):
Tin doctor killed there the Green Hornet. You know, I
was the spoiled little brat that got to go on
to the bat Cave set, you know, and the Green
Hornet and I and I went on the Bonanza set
and everything.
Speaker 1 (03:40):
And did you meet Bruce Lee?
Speaker 3 (03:43):
Yes? I did. I was with my uncle and we
were driving and it was bor like, hey, Bruce, come
on over here. They met my nephew, you know, and
he came over, a really nice guy, you know. But yeah,
it was always in me. I thought, you know, good
(04:03):
Jewish kid. You know, I'm going to go to college.
I'm going to be a lawyer. It never worked. I
dropped out once. Three times. I dropped out. I went
to U see Santa Barbara. I went to UC Berkeley.
I dropped out three times. Then I joined a comedy
troupe in Berkeley, and then when I was around twenty three,
(04:25):
I moved to La to be a stand up comic.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
Okay, wow, we've heard now this is such an interesting
path to writing and creating because we've heard a number
of people saying that they started doing stand up.
Speaker 3 (04:37):
Yeah, and the first and I was doing that. It
wasn't for me. The world at least then. I don't
know if it's the same world now. The world then
was very drug oriented and lots of cocaine and all
of that. That's not mean. And I started to I
always loved sitcoms, you know, Marry Taller, Moore Show, Bob
(05:01):
Mark Show, all those things, and so I started writing sitcoms.
And surprisingly, the person who helped me first, when he
was still a writer, he was not a stand up comic,
was Gary Shandling.
Speaker 1 (05:15):
Really yeah.
Speaker 3 (05:16):
He was writing Welcome Back Cotter and Sanford and Son,
and he would take my scripts and hand them back
to the old marked, you know. And he was getting
out of writing while I was getting in writing, and
of course he was going into stand up comedy. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
And then the Gary Shandling Show, and then Larry Sanders
and then everything that followed after that.
Speaker 3 (05:38):
Wow all true. As a matter of fact, my last
stand up gig, the thing that finally did it for
me to say bye bye. There was a comedy store
in Westwood, Yeah a time, and I was going to
go on the open mic, right, and I have a
little five minute routine and all this kind of stuff.
(05:59):
And there was like thirty people there and it was
twelve and I was going to go on in five
minutes until somebody walked in the room, right, and they
wanted to go on, assured me they'd only be ten minutes,
don't worry about it. And that guy was David Letterman.
And it was not David Letterman. It was David Letterman
(06:21):
when he was on I think Mary Tyler Moore had
a very failed variety show and he was on that
and he went on ten minutes became fifteen, which became
a half hour, which became forty five minutes. He left.
Literally twenty six people left with him, and I was
(06:42):
stuck with the four remaining drunk.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
Oh man, maybe this isn't for me.
Speaker 3 (06:49):
Yeah, maybe God is finally saying, do you get the message?
How much do I have to tell him?
Speaker 1 (06:58):
Oh? Yeah, how do you get that? So was it?
Speaker 3 (07:02):
Was?
Speaker 1 (07:02):
It then an instant transition to Okay, I'm going to
go right, I'm going to be a writer. I'm gonna
focus primarily on writing.
Speaker 3 (07:08):
I didn't even get there at the same time. Okay, okay,
you know. And so after that I kind of put
everything to writing and the script. Again, I don't I'm
dating myself. But the script that finally got me in,
broke me into getting some good opportunity was a spect
Barney Miller. I did, oh great show, which I adored
(07:29):
that show. It's probably one of the better things I've
ever written.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
I think, well, it's one of I mean, it's one
of the best shows in the history of television.
Speaker 3 (07:35):
Yeah, I would agree with that.
Speaker 1 (07:36):
Yeah, yeah, oh man, that's great. So, so did you
were you a staff writer for Barney Miller or do
you write?
Speaker 3 (07:42):
I never, I never. I never was able to get
the script to Barney Miller.
Speaker 1 (07:47):
Oh, it was just for you to spec.
Speaker 3 (07:50):
Yeah. And I was a waiter in Beverly Hills at
a place called r J's, the rib Joint, and it
was a really popular sawed us on the floor. I
wore jeans and a T shirt. But it was the
in place, and so I would I met my I
got my first agent by waiting tables. I got my
(08:11):
first pitch meeting by waiting tables. Wosh, because I would
wait tables and use my kind of joke kind of
thing to always joke around with the customers, and I
had a good time. And then when they would ask me,
so what are you doing, I'd say, well, I'm trying
to get into writing. Well, I happen to know blah,
(08:31):
and do you have anything? And I'd go down to
my locker and I'd get my spec Barney millscript.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
You're kidding me now, you're.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
Telling me you had the like iconic Hollywood dream when
people come they get a waiting job and you literally
just get the doors open to you because you're this
amazingly nice guy who's funny, and someone asks you, how
can I help you?
Speaker 3 (08:58):
That That was basically you know, I'm talking. You know.
This wasn't like, Oh, I get a waiter job and
two months later I'm on staff, get a waiter job,
and six years later, you know, I got my first opportunity.
And it was literally on eight when it was the
first year of the Disney Channel. Surprisingly wow, And it
(09:22):
was a show called Boy. I haven't talked about this.
This was a show called dream Finders. This is Ron Miller,
Walt Disney's son in law, was still head of the company. Yeah,
and so it was the first it was failed. We
did a whole lots of like, I don't know what
(09:44):
might have done, twenty episodes something like that. I never
saw the light of day, right, and then that was
my volley there and then I went in from that,
I got more prime time opportunities.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
Now, do you mind if I asked not to? You said,
you've you're dating yourself. But I'm just I'm very curious
because our fans who listened to this podcast are obviously
big Disney Channel fans. So you say it was the
first year of Disney Channel. What year is that.
Speaker 3 (10:13):
That's a really good question. If I had to guess,
it's probably in the early eighties.
Speaker 1 (10:19):
Okay, okay, eighty two eighty three ish kind of area.
Speaker 3 (10:24):
Okay, but I'm really not sure. But it was the
it was the first year of the Disney Channel, okay,
you know, and so we were going to use a
lot of things in Epcot. They flew us out to
look at Epcot. It was like Epcot was open. I
think maybe a year or two at that time.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
Yes, we just heard nineteen eighty three was the first
year of UH.
Speaker 2 (10:44):
And I remember them. There was always a big picture
of Epcot that would come around on the Disney I
was a Disney Channel kid. I don't remember a world
without it at all, and so I remember that Epcot.
There was always like a like a big vision of
it that came on the channel a lot. So that
makes that that's cool that you guys were sent there
(11:05):
and it was like a part.
Speaker 3 (11:06):
Of your There was like nobody there. Wow, So the
whole place was there was their crowd. No, people didn't
want to go Topcot. They were over there the Magic Kingdom.
Speaker 1 (11:17):
That's right. That the Epcot was going to close at
one point, they said in the eighties there was a
real chance that was going to shut down.
Speaker 3 (11:23):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (11:24):
Okay, So then you went from there to you said
more primetime shows, which can I ask some of the shows.
I'm a television fanatic, So.
Speaker 3 (11:31):
My my my first actual credits were like different strokes
call a show called Love Sydney.
Speaker 1 (11:43):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (11:44):
I had Tony Randall in it. Alice did one there,
and I did a couple of Who's the Boss scripts.
Oh my god, my first big staff primetime job was
I was was on the last two seasons and I
got this while I was on the last two seasons
of Facts of Life. Oh, come on, and I got
(12:07):
this where you know here I am, you know, thirty
thirty one year old Jewish guy. All his friends are
either doctors or lawyers or they're becoming successful business people.
And and I'm sitting there hoping my unemployment doesn't run
out as I'm still trying to find the big job.
At the time, I was developing something with a friend
(12:30):
of mine's mom. My friend was Bruce Kylish. His mom
is Irma Kalish, who was, as a woman, a pioneer
in comedy, television, comedy writing. Wow, it didn't work, but
then she got hired to run Facts of Life and
brought me over. That's how my big break happened. Based
(12:52):
on relationships. It wasn't based on being submitted or anything
like that. You know, we're in a business where the
first rule is there are no rules. Yeah right, you
don't know where it's going to come from. So that
was my first thing. So I was on two seasons
of that and then it was not picked up right
(13:15):
for that? That was like eight season, wasn't picked up
for a ninth Why because it only had a twenty
five share. In other words, the entire audience was watching
this show, and at that time that wasn't to know.
Speaker 1 (13:33):
No, that's incredible. You know how a bunch people would
freak if they got a twenty five share for anything
but the super Bowl? Right now? Yeah, no one, no one.
Speaker 3 (13:41):
Just an amazing thing, isn't it.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
Yeah, Well, I have to let you know that I
became an actor and knew I had to become an
actor and started professional when I was ten. And one
of the reasons was different strokes wo, so mash different
strokes and family ties are. I knew what I had
to do with my life. But Gary Coleman on different
Strokes was.
Speaker 3 (14:04):
What are you talking about? Willis was?
Speaker 1 (14:06):
I just saw him and I went, I have to
do that. And Dana Plato was my first ever on
screen crush. I mean it was. These were so important
to me, so, oh man, I can do Yeah, that's
the coolest thing ever. So then how do you go
from there to finding your way to then back to
the channel and creating shows for them.
Speaker 3 (14:23):
Well here's the non glorified road. But after Facts of Life,
I ended up getting a job on staff of a
show called Good Morning, Miss Bliss okay, which was an
ABC show. ABC did not pick it up past thirteen
I think it was, and NBC picked it up and
(14:46):
it became Saved by the Belt Okay. So I was
on the first season of Save by the bet Geez
after that, but still I didn't want its programming. I
didn't want to do that.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
I was going to ask you because, like, were you
feeling drawn to kids programming or at that point.
Speaker 3 (15:06):
What happened was I was drawn to employment.
Speaker 1 (15:10):
Under working yeah, you know.
Speaker 3 (15:13):
And then I got an opportunity coming off of that
into more primetime shows when a friend of mine, Bob Meyer,
started to get pilots and things, you know, and he
got something called Me and the Boys and that lasted
eighteen episodes, something called Joe's Life that lasted thirteen episodes.
Speaker 4 (15:36):
I was.
Speaker 3 (15:36):
I was on a show called out of This World
on staffed.
Speaker 1 (15:42):
My my it was out I'm sorry. Was out of
this World the one where she puts her fingers together
and stops time. Yeah yeah, okay, yeah, because an alien,
you know alien, yes, okay.
Speaker 3 (15:55):
And that all led to again Bob Meyer, who I
worked with, I'm getting a job running Sybil okay, and
he brought me on and so that was my first
really kind of high profile staff job. And then from
there I got onto Veronica's closet, geez, And you think
(16:17):
everything's going well, and from there Wick Wall, all of
a sudden, no work, right, And I'm doing my development
and I'm writing this thing or trying doing that way
and that. And then I heard that the Disney Channel
was looking to do their first four camera shop. Right, Well, me,
(16:42):
I want to work. I said, I'm going to get
a meeting over there. And a friend of minority had
a meeting over there and we both had meetings, both unsuccessful. Right,
all my primetime friends are basically saying, what the hell
are you doing? Geez? You don't give up on Braunt
if you go there, I mean, come on, you know,
(17:03):
and you know, because it wasn't the popular place to go.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
Yeah, We've had We've had interviews with actors, you know,
adult actors that said, you know, making making that choice
to go to Disney was it was a crap shoot,
and that's not like it was, but it.
Speaker 3 (17:18):
Was following just that's where there was opportunity, right, And
that worked into well what if you know, what if
a kid could see around the corner? Because my my
whole thing has always been in anything I write is
always about the truth first, relatability first, Why am I
(17:40):
writing it first? And then I'll lay on the funny.
I always say to everybody, I'm so not concerned about funny.
I'm concerned about the truth and being authentic. And if
I can do those things, I can make anything funny, right.
You know, I learned from Barney Miller and you know,
Mary Chyler, Moore, Bob Newhart. They weren't the stories told
(18:03):
weren't funny, it's how they did them and the reactions
and the relationships. And so that led to that, and
that led to my life in kids program which, by
the way, I far prefer it's so much fun working
with kid actors who want to learn right and and
(18:27):
that are so jazz that you do that, you do
what you know. But adult friends, if I was on
Civil over on yeah I saw your show. Yes, it's okay.
You never go oh, man, I really saw the last
episode of So Funny. You don't get that. You just
(18:48):
go yeah, yeah, you know, But with kids, they run up,
they hug you. I mean, why why isn't that better?
Speaker 2 (18:55):
Yeah? And you and you get a chance to implement
like really good messages, especially the Disney Channel, like good
morals and good decision making and all of that is
just it's magic.
Speaker 3 (19:07):
It's a higher responsibility because you have to write clean.
You can't go for the cheap joke. And my whole
thing is, I don't want to write anything. I wouldn't
let my kid watch. Yeah, right, And on both times
when I'm doing this kind of programming, I'm a dad first,
(19:27):
I'm a parent first. I'm a producer second, right, you know.
And so as far as where I am in those sets,
because a lot of things have been talked about about
all that stuff not on my set. You know, I
can't control what happens off my set, but I sure
as he can control what happens on it, you know.
(19:48):
And you know I've always had including myself, I know, rule,
you know, that's a great role. Nobody is that good,
including me, right, you know? With you, Yeah, and especially
in kids programming, you're in it. There's the door. You
can be replaced.
Speaker 1 (20:06):
Yeah we all can. Yeah, yeah, we all can all
the time. So then you're you go into Disney. Is
is your first pitch that's so raven?
Speaker 5 (20:25):
No?
Speaker 3 (20:26):
God, what what I think? My first pitch was a
time travel okay, and it almost went but then it didn't. No,
it almost went, but I think they had something else
(20:47):
phill of the future. Ah, there you go, they had
something else, and so they liked it almost almost almost know,
well what else? And then Susan Sherman and I got
together and came up with the premise of that's so raven.
It wasn't that so raven? You know, she was casting
initially she was the best friend. Oh wow, she was
(21:10):
so good that we redeveloped the whole We got picked up,
but we redeveloped the whole thing and put her as
the star and found a mom and a dad and
a brother. You know, in kids programming, you know, the
one thing you learn is it's the talent. The talent.
The talent writing is great, you need to be really
(21:32):
well well written, but the writing you can't treat. The
writing is precious. Writing has to follow the talent and
mold to the talent to get the most out of
the kids that are playing.
Speaker 2 (21:47):
Yeah, I mean and what I mean, what what a
superstar MVP to cast because she had an amazing career
already at that point.
Speaker 1 (21:59):
She's so good. And when she was coming off of Cosby,
wasn't she.
Speaker 2 (22:05):
With mister Cooper? She was little in Cosby? She had
kny with mister Cooper. I feel like she had quite
a bit of a good run on Fresh Prince of
bel Air as well. She was right, she had like
a I mean, she's just she's just amazing. She's been
working was teeny tiny, She's for Disney.
Speaker 3 (22:27):
You know how she came into the room audition wise,
she just came in the room. It's just you know,
and it was like okay, and it was it was like, well,
what scene would you like me to do? Okay? Uh,
can you do the second scene? Sure? And then you
(22:50):
do this I'm ready, Oh geez and nail it. Yeah,
no script, no pages? Well can you do the fifth one? Okay?
Speaker 2 (23:04):
Wow?
Speaker 3 (23:05):
Railed it like it was really like I was kind
of just blown away. And we went for her as
Chelsea Wow. Because the original girl was Caucasian.
Speaker 1 (23:19):
What do you remember the original title was it called
That's so Chelsea.
Speaker 3 (23:22):
No, it's called absolutely Psychica. That's a title that the
executive there at the time, Adam Bennette, came up with. Yeah,
I remember, yeah, so wow.
Speaker 2 (23:34):
You know, you know, because the channel at that time
the leads were Caucasian. There was no one at that
point that that was that was the head of the
show that was casing a different ethnicity.
Speaker 1 (23:49):
So she was.
Speaker 2 (23:49):
It was groundbreaking to put her in it and have
her be the lead, and there just wasn't anyone better
that was ever going to do it. The Braven just
nailed it out of the bark.
Speaker 3 (23:59):
But the reality is this was all about following the talent.
Had nothing to do with the fact that she was
African American did not play at all. It was she
was the best that walked in the room, right, She
was the best one, and that's why, you know, we
(24:21):
rejiggered everything. It was following the talent and no other reason.
The same you know with Miley, I'll tell you Miley
wasn't Miley. You know, initially fantastic. What I had created
initially was a Jewish girl from New York. Oh wow,
that's what she was. That's what Hannah Montana was and
(24:43):
her father was a studio musician, right okay, And then
Miley was, you know, sent in videotapes after videotapes after
videotape auditions, and we kept saying no, you know, because
she was so great. We had this big show. We
can't put it all on there. But her auditions got
(25:06):
better and better and better, and so Disney, the generous
people they are that, well, she can come out of
an audition in front of us as long as they
pay for it. Then she came out and unlike Raven,
(25:30):
you know, Miley came into the room going how you
doing right? But the character was supposedly somebody that was
kind of kind of insecure and shy until they got
on stage, right. Well, Miley was the opposite of that.
She read and was not the best one, but she
(25:55):
was so genuine and authentic and she just took it
and made the rolled her own. We had another person,
her name was Danielle Something I think, who nailed every joke, everything,
everything right. But there was something that the camera just
adored about Miley. So we decided that we were going
(26:19):
to roll the dice and take a chance on on
Miley and then we we here after we decide that
can we talk to you guys for a minute, and
Billy Ray wants to come in audition, and it was
like a lot of us were kind of going like.
Speaker 1 (26:37):
Oh, he's way too old to play Hannah Montana.
Speaker 3 (26:45):
Yes, exactly him. We were going like, oh, come on,
we don't want Achy breaking Heart to be the dad
we're going to be able to act, you know, And
and we said sure, shared delighted, and he came in
and to our surprise, absolutely nailed it.
Speaker 2 (27:07):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (27:07):
But even more than that, he got Miley from Here
to hear Oh right, because you can't buy that chemistry?
Speaker 1 (27:14):
No, you can't. Is it?
Speaker 3 (27:16):
Was it?
Speaker 1 (27:16):
Daniella Monet? Yes, Okay, there we go. I was looking
back at my notes. There was a number of people
that audition for Hannah Montana that were have gone on
to do huge things.
Speaker 2 (27:29):
Jojo is one of them, and she was a like
she had a mega hit at that point.
Speaker 3 (27:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:36):
Wasn't Ali from Ali and Aj one of them as well?
I thought I thought Ali might have been one, or
I'm not quite she.
Speaker 2 (27:42):
Would have been perfect age at that time.
Speaker 3 (27:45):
Hundreds, Yeah, I know.
Speaker 2 (27:47):
I can't even imagine how many you guys auditioned because
I was around with the Cheetah Girls as this was
I was at the upfront when Hannah Montana got introduced
to you know, the world industry, in the world, and
I mean it was the energy of everyone, Gary Marsh,
every single person that was there from everyone was so amped,
(28:09):
like they had this like heavy hitter into the game.
This was like gonna blow up the world, and it did,
so I know, even just the audition process had to
have been grueling. You guys saw probably everyone that had
an agent at that point.
Speaker 3 (28:25):
Yeah, it was an exciting time. But you know, and
I kind of missed that, this is when the ideas
that were generated over there were It was about the idea.
It was about discovering new talent. Wasn't about redoing anything
(28:45):
or playing anything safe. Everything they had took a chance,
right High School Musical took a big chance that was
incredibly courageous, and all the stars lined up because we
premiered right after they did. It wasn't by design. You know,
you had these two things that came out of a
(29:07):
box and what like that, and that set the stage
for Hannah that just it just picked that up and
what like that. Yeah, it was really quite exciting.
Speaker 2 (29:18):
Well it was also Hannah itself was really courageous too,
in the sense that Disney had not done to think
of an episodic type show and having a music, big
performance type aspect was I know, something that they were
really concerned on how they were going to pull that off,
you know, with budget and how to how to do that.
(29:40):
And I remember that being a thing as it was
going around, and the end result was great. I mean
it was it made sense. It was like you know,
but that was a big thing because they hadn't done
a big musical production outside of that point from the movies.
It was not done on a show at that point.
Speaker 3 (29:57):
The thing that I wanted to bring to it is,
you know, hey, let's do something about a music star
and isn't it great to be famous and out in
the world. And as I said, where I come from
is I think that's that's fine, but it's not relatable.
It's not a human condition, you know, And so was
born Well, what if that's a secret and she wants
(30:21):
to be treated like a regular girl, And what if
that was because when she was starting to get famous,
she had a best friend at the time that started
to treat her differently, right, and that friendship went confluently
when and so that's why Hannah the whole split personality
(30:42):
was born. That's far more interesting. You know. Right now,
I'm going to a lot of colleges and stuff and
guesting talking about Hannah, and you know, these you know,
really smart people come up to me and go, you
don't know what it meant to me? Yeah, thisisode. I
was going through this and this and this, and then
(31:02):
I saw that episode and she can get through that.
I can get through that, you know, was like, oh
my god, it's at all the work developing stories the
way we did paid off. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (31:15):
Well, I mean here's a perfect example. So I'm obviously
I am a forty eight year old man. I had
not watched Hannah Montana growing up. I did not. I
knew I knew what it was because again it was
in the zeitgeist, but I'd never seen it before. So
we had just watched the movie, and I, being the
curmudgeon that I am, I have had a difficult time
getting over the fact that no one recognized her when
(31:37):
she just put on a wig. Okay, Superman right exactly. So,
as I'm saying this on the podcast, we have a
chat going next to us of all the producers. I
had five or six producers that were all all women
and all the right age, writing in how could you
be thinking this? This is what we I mean, just
jumping to the defense of Hannah Montana. This meant so
(32:00):
much to people, it did. It meant so much to people.
Speaker 2 (32:04):
It really did change Ada.
Speaker 3 (32:11):
I'll tell you and well maybe it's a known story,
but it might be an unknown story, but I'm going
to tell it anyway. Please at the end without mentioning names,
Disney wanted us to wrap up the end by saying
that Miley Cyrus wakes up and there's Billy and her
real mom, and she says, I just had this crazy dream, okay,
(32:36):
and that was Hannah Montana, right okay? And I said, no.
Speaker 1 (32:42):
No, what.
Speaker 3 (32:45):
You can't do that. You know, the fans and everybody
that it meant so much to to tell them it
was all a dream is wrong. I want to send
the message that there's start of end, there's college, and
you know which one do you pick? And I wanted
her to pick college because you can always go back
(33:06):
start him or whatever. And I will say to you
that it came down to one person which way that
was going to go right, because Disney really wanted their
way right and I really wanted my way. The deciding
factor was Miley. Yeah, Miley said, I'll go either way,
but I I I whatever Michael wants right. And it
(33:30):
was really quite something.
Speaker 4 (33:31):
You know.
Speaker 3 (33:32):
You had this girl stand up and and really take
a thing, and so she gave me what I wanted
and what it was in my head and that's why
it ended that way.
Speaker 1 (33:45):
That's wonderful. Now, was there ever pushback by Disney or
anybody at the beginning about the wig, like you got
to change her look more than just the wig or
the way. If you saw the pilot I did.
Speaker 3 (33:57):
The pilot had the worst wig in it. It was
so bad they cheaped out. So I was crazy because
that wig looked like she was like what a like?
You know, all she needed was she was a fifty
year old chorus girl doing in Vegas, you know, but.
Speaker 2 (34:16):
We appreciate that about the movie. The wig in the
movie was so good.
Speaker 1 (34:20):
It was a good wig.
Speaker 2 (34:21):
It was a good and the.
Speaker 3 (34:22):
Wig in the series, for the most part, was a
really good wig. They went from spending one hundred and
fifty dollars, right, who I think the wig in the series,
and so they had to get a couple of them.
Might have been at the time fifteen hundred, yeah, something
like that. Yeah, and so they finally had a good wig,
(34:42):
but the wig and they got almighty. The wig in
the pilot was awesome.
Speaker 2 (34:56):
Did you guys when you shot that first season? The
performances were obviously all shot in one or two days
or whatever whatever, but they were together, right, she did
one routine after another. Was that that that was later
on because that wig was even better than the actual
pilot pilot wig, the one that's in the opening credits
(35:17):
and then when she comes out and doesn't quickly that
was later on in the season, right, Yeah, just the
episode with the wig, the one wig.
Speaker 3 (35:25):
Oh yeah, we actually got the first four or five
episodes not in front of an audience.
Speaker 2 (35:36):
Oh, really want the.
Speaker 3 (35:37):
Kids to get used to each other. And so then
when we were super in front of the audience, and
that was like the fifth or sixth episode, everything just.
Speaker 1 (35:47):
Yeah, yeah, right, there's nothing like the energy of an
audience show.
Speaker 3 (35:51):
No. But the one thing that we you know, I
had a whole lot of fun teaching Miley was had
a hold, you know, and how to listen and how
to wait for that laugh. She was so eager. She
knew everybody's lines, and so when somebody was talking to her,
she wasn't listening to what they were saying. She was going,
(36:12):
when they're done, I get to talk.
Speaker 4 (36:14):
Yeah, And so she wasn't putting expression on her face
and reacting and knowing, you know, you've got your line,
the camera's on you.
Speaker 3 (36:25):
You're in control, right. It's like getting ready to make
the punch, you know, but you've got to really feel it.
I had this thing with her where I would go
out and I would say, Okay, I'm going to make
it simple. I want you to listen to the person talking.
I want to see your expression, your attitude on your
(36:46):
face about what you think about what they're saying, right,
and then I want you to say your line, because
if you do all those things, your line's crazy. You're
going to get the laugh. It's crazy. This is the
important stuff. It's like, you know, building a house on
a really bad foundation, or building it on a good foundation.
(37:07):
So listening expression, that's a great foundation. So when you
say that line, you done nail it right. And she
finally got it to a point where I would go,
I'd be starting getting out of my chair to go
on to the set, and she'd say, I know, and
I would come back and sit down. That's it.
Speaker 2 (37:31):
Wow. It seems like she was just really ready to
be a sponge and absorb everything that she could, learn,
everything that she could to keep going. She had such
huge dreams, but she knew that she had to get
steps to get there.
Speaker 3 (37:46):
You know. She seems she was living the life of
the character. Yeah, where she was living. You know, as
it got more popular and more popular, you have more
false friends, Yeah, coming out of the woodwork treatingly.
Speaker 5 (38:04):
You know.
Speaker 3 (38:05):
And you know, it was smart of her because what
her parents were saying, what I was saying to her
was hold onto the people that knew you before.
Speaker 1 (38:13):
Yep, right, hugely important, right.
Speaker 3 (38:16):
That treat you like like, go, okay, you're a star.
That's nice. Yeah, I'm exec producing the biggest show in
kids television, and I have friends of mine that are
still saying, oh shut.
Speaker 1 (38:27):
Up, yeah, yeah, really those are and those are the
friends that are always going to be there, and there's
still ones that matter. Well, you said, as you were
getting more popular, when did you realize what the show was.
Speaker 3 (38:41):
I realized that in the first reason, Oh did you when?
And it wasn't the show. It was going to the
first concert, okay. And when you walked out and you
heard the screams, I've never heard something that loud and
that high pitched and that and you look and you
went like, oh my god.
Speaker 2 (39:03):
And you look around and every single kid has seven
pieces of.
Speaker 6 (39:07):
Merchandise, like not one shirt, like an adults like the bandana,
the lantern, the book, the everything, until.
Speaker 3 (39:17):
You've heard that sound and when that is when I
really realized what it was. Yeah, before that.
Speaker 1 (39:27):
But I mean the number the numbers for the channel
were monster, weren't they They were right out of the
gate massive.
Speaker 2 (39:34):
But it felt like everyone at the channel knew this
was going to happen. I mean, yes, there was a gamble,
but it just seemed like everyone was behind it and
believed in this brand that they were about to kick off.
They all just felt it was right and it was
the right timing and it was just set up so well.
And I mean, now that you've explained why, it's like, wow, yeah,
(39:57):
you know, I mean, you guys, And then continued to
have a ton of guest stars.
Speaker 1 (40:02):
Well, that's what I wanted to ask you about it.
I'd like to name a couple guest stars for you,
if that's okay, and I'd like you to tell me
if you remember what it was like to work with them.
So we've got to start with one of the greatest
of all time, Dolly Parton.
Speaker 3 (40:14):
Fabulous. You know a lot of people are are different
when you there, and they're not their personas sure everything
you expect Dolly Parton would be. She wash, that's wonderful.
It was the sweetest person all she said whenever it
was saying, So what can we get you? Can we
(40:34):
have anything in your dressing room? Can we get you flowers?
Can we better? You want some makeup, you want to
work anything? You want? Anything you want, right, darling, all
I need is a dressing room in a toilet. Yes,
that was it. She got everything else. She was delightful,
(40:55):
not a bad thing to say. She is everything you
think she would be, not to disappointing at all. She
was great.
Speaker 1 (41:01):
So how about Selena Gomez.
Speaker 3 (41:05):
Selena Gomez was then pretty darn shy.
Speaker 1 (41:10):
Really, I don't believe that.
Speaker 2 (41:12):
I can believe that.
Speaker 3 (41:13):
Yeah, and you know you would give her notes and
would be very quiet and what have you. And she
went and she did her thing. She she didn't have
any I don't know if she was a star really
when she was on. Her show was just starting, but
there was no attitude or anything. She was Again, my
(41:33):
memory was she was just very very quiet and the
opposite of my I think she was a little nervous
because her show was just starting and she's on this show. Yeah,
but I don't have anything. I didn't really get to
know her all that well. But she seemed like a
sweet kid.
Speaker 1 (41:55):
How about the Jonahs brothers.
Speaker 3 (41:58):
Jonah's brothers were all nice, you know, they were all
nice guys. Yeah, you know, quite honestly acting.
Speaker 1 (42:07):
You know, but they they're rock stars.
Speaker 3 (42:09):
Yeah, they didn't come with any attitude, you know, if
you had a note, why don't you try this? Or that.
They were very nice to do it, but acting wise,
you know, not the not the best ones. And I
think they all knew it right.
Speaker 2 (42:27):
Yeah. They I feel like they were so realistic of
again wanting to wanting to learn, how taking notes, how
can I be better? Absolutely?
Speaker 3 (42:35):
And also a very very solid family.
Speaker 1 (42:38):
Yeah that's hugely important, which is very very important. Am
I getting this right, was Larry David on the show?
Speaker 3 (42:45):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (42:46):
What was that? Like?
Speaker 3 (42:47):
That was great? You know, he's he called Steve Peterman,
who I was co running the show with, and they
he wanted tickets, you know, to come with his daughter
see the show. And maybe it sent up down on
stet and all this.
Speaker 1 (43:04):
Yeah, and it.
Speaker 3 (43:05):
Was just I think Curb was in the first year,
two three years, something like that. And then Steve says,
what you want to be on the show? You know,
and by the recounting was what you know, wait a minute, wait,
wait wait yeah, well, well can you be on the
show here? We can write you in something. Well, I
(43:28):
have Curb, I have Curb, I have Curb. Give me
a minute, give me, I'll call you back. Right. He
changed his whole schedule for right to come with his
two daughters to guest star on the show. And you
know the bit was, you know, he's waiting and I
think a Chinese restaurant with his two daughters in embarrassing right.
Speaker 2 (43:51):
Yeah, so you know it was a kick.
Speaker 3 (43:54):
I mean, you have this guy who's fricking genius, yeah
to your show asking you do you have a line
here for you?
Speaker 1 (44:05):
That would be great?
Speaker 2 (44:07):
Wow?
Speaker 1 (44:07):
And what about finally the rock.
Speaker 3 (44:11):
Oh my god, the sweetest Oh thank you God, you
just saved Sabrina right there, he would have ripped up
like a girl. We had makeup, we had nails, and
he did anything we wanted.
Speaker 1 (44:28):
Oh that's great, anything you want.
Speaker 2 (44:31):
I can't. Oh man, you.
Speaker 1 (44:33):
Would have risen. You would have just crushed Sabrina.
Speaker 2 (44:36):
Oh no, I love him so much.
Speaker 3 (44:39):
He was nowhere. I mean, I can tell you some
people that were poles. Now there's one, right, I gotta
know doctor Phil really absolutely.
Speaker 1 (44:52):
Oh wow, that's a shame.
Speaker 3 (44:55):
You can talk to anybody in the car with my
doing the scene. Miley tried to make small talk with him.
He didn't engage. Oh wow, why are you here? Yeah,
this was not a nice man, and maybe there was
something else going on. But you're you're around kids. This
should be fun.
Speaker 2 (45:16):
This is a kid, Yeah, like bring the kid with
This list also has Austin Butler. So it had to
have been when he was on the like very beginning
of his career, right.
Speaker 3 (45:30):
I don't remember what did he I don't know, I
don't know.
Speaker 2 (45:34):
It had to have been when he was really young.
Speaker 3 (45:36):
I'll tell you another jet. Well, Vicky Lawrence terrific on Prior.
What a sweetheart, brilliant, just a total sweetheart. But I'll
give you one of my favorite stories. And he wasn't
on the show, but he brought his kid, Sylvester Stallone.
Speaker 5 (45:54):
You're kidding, Oh my gosh, the show and he said
to me, you know, well, I gotta, I gotta, I
gotta tell you, he said.
Speaker 3 (46:04):
Finally, finally I did something that impresses my kids. Oh
my god, this is.
Speaker 1 (46:16):
Twice.
Speaker 3 (46:16):
Come on, I'm finally doing something.
Speaker 1 (46:22):
My whole life I was Cobra.
Speaker 2 (46:34):
So I do have to ask, because I remember, you know,
the energy and things that were going on during this time.
But what was it like during the Vanity Fair controversy
and it was such a big deal. Was that stressful
for you guys, you know, for the shows, like the
writers and keeping like the integrity of what you guys
(46:55):
had built at that point for the brand.
Speaker 3 (46:57):
It wasn't. We just kept doing what we did. Did
I like it? Not? Really? Yeah, because it kind of
flew in the face of the brand that was going on.
But that's the kind of thing I stayed out of
and I let them Disney and the parents handle that.
Did I agree with it? Not No, not really. Did
(47:20):
I let that invade and infect and you know, did
I project that I was disappointed in Miley or anything
like that? No? Did I lay more more of the
responsibility on her parents?
Speaker 2 (47:34):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (47:35):
Yeah, well you have to.
Speaker 3 (47:36):
I had to move on and do my job and
be there for her and all that. Like I said,
on my side, I got what I wanted. I can't
control what happens when I'm not on my.
Speaker 2 (47:48):
Set, right, Yeah, I think there is a point of allowing.
You know, I'm sure you became a parental figure for
a mentor, and there is a part of of that
age that she's just in. When you're working with kids
that are becoming teenagers into their adulthood, right, it probably
(48:08):
felt like you had to let her go and make choices,
and whether they were mistakes or not.
Speaker 3 (48:13):
You know, and look at the big effect that had nothing.
Speaker 1 (48:18):
That's the thing. If anything, it did exactly one thing
you wanted to do.
Speaker 6 (48:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (48:22):
I mean sure, there's a lot of those quote unquote
Disney kids that want to break away from the Disney
image and they'll do it in a big, splashy way,
and sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. I know,
other Disney kids that have done nudity or that kind
of thing, and it does it backfires, It just doesn't.
Speaker 3 (48:36):
You know. It's an interesting thing. You know. Miley is
really instinctively smart, right, and so when you look at
what she's doing, there's thought behind it.
Speaker 6 (48:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (48:52):
Yeah, And she's really smart and she makes her moves
and you can see by how she has led her
career up and up and up and up in the
songs that she's doing and the choices she's making, and
it's like, wow, way good for you, because so few
that that hit that kind of stardom don't keep their
(49:12):
heads on straight. Yeah she is. She is completely in
charge of her career.
Speaker 1 (49:20):
Yeah, yeah, she definitely is. So I have a question
for you. Wait, love that you've been spending this much
time with us. So one of the things we like
we like to ask is it's your series you've got
you did four seasons. Is there a favorite episode that
you have is the one that sticks out for you
as that's my favorite one?
Speaker 3 (49:40):
Well, yeah, you know, there's an episode that sticks sticks
out to me because it's so I'm most proud of it. Okay,
in the last season and we did an episode about
the military and about military families and Miley going out
(50:04):
with a guy who kept I think not Jake, it
was the other one going out with a guy that
kept canceling on her right, and she got in a
little bit of a snitty fit about it. And then
we find out the reason he kept canceling on her
is his dad is in the military overseas and when
(50:26):
he calls, he has to drop everything and take the call. Yeah. Right,
And it was the about an appreciation, that appreciation of
military families and the next time you see a kid
who has a parent overseas serving, maybe you'll have a
little bit more appreciation for it. Miley sang my favorite
(50:51):
song was written by chen Nieman called bin Here. All along,
we had real families on the set. We had real
soldiers talking to the family and delivering messages, and it
hit me that, you know, we're doing an episode. We're
(51:13):
doing a children's program, a kids and family program. What
other program could have done that story? Yeah, where you're
doing something it's about something so serious and we can
still be funny, but we're in the we're at a
level where when our audience watched that show and they
(51:36):
now have this kid who seems military or that or
what have you, that they have a far larger appreciation
for the sacrifice not only of the parent that's in
the military, but of what the family goes through. That's
the I'm most proud of.
Speaker 1 (51:55):
That amazing by the way, the care we just found
out again from one of our mega fans producers that
the character's name was Jesse.
Speaker 3 (52:02):
That's it. I will also tell you that where I'm
most proud of Miley the performance she made that I
just thought was like Lucille ball time, right, it was
so good. We did an episode I forget what it
was in second or third season about her getting paid
(52:23):
a lot of money to advertise a product she hates. Oh,
and we also established that when Miley lies, the character
Miley Stewart lies, she just sweats just a little bit,
just a little bit, right. And now she's on this
Larry King kind of show and Larry King is asking
(52:45):
about this product and she's starting to say how oh
I love it and this and the other thing, and
she starts to sweat from under the wig, right, And
we said to her, smells like teens sellout that you know.
(53:07):
He said to her, no matter what happens, until you
hear the director, you'll cut you keep going right, and
so we turned it up right. He was coming down,
she was, you know, with a going and stayed in character.
(53:27):
I was falling off my chair so much because very
few could just stay, stay there, stay there. This was
Lucy oldball and.
Speaker 1 (53:42):
And rather chocolate chocolates, and it's why.
Speaker 3 (53:49):
It's I just adored that. That just sort of said, Okay,
she's there, she's got it. Yeah, nothing we can do.
Speaker 1 (53:58):
That's amazing. Well, before we say goodbye to you, because
this has been amazing again, I could hear television history
stories for my entire life. I love this one of
my favorite things. Ever, what do you hope new fans,
because of streaming it comes around, it's never gone anymore.
What do you hope new fans take away from Annah Montana?
Speaker 3 (54:22):
Well, you know, the exciting things about new fans for
me is that they like it as much as the
old fans liked them, and they're getting the same messages.
Because one of the things that I was really a
stickler on is I didn't want to do anything that
was dated. I didn't want to do anything that was
(54:43):
of the time politically or socially. I just wanted to
do universal truths that were true when I was growing
up and today and tomorrow, and just stayed with things
that were incredibly solid and relatable. So I think the
reason fans today really like it is it's it speaks
(55:05):
to those fundamentals that are in all twelve year olds, yeah,
and eight year olds and nine year olds and ten
year olds. So you know, I'm just I love the
fact that it's finding another audience. I think it's so cool.
Speaker 2 (55:19):
Yeah it is. And now the new audience, a lot
of them probably have parents that were pans of it,
and this is another like it's just like a two
generational home happening. And they also have the stories of
the grandparents telling them how they went and took their
parents to a Miley Cyrus concert, you know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (55:41):
It's like, I mean all of those I mean I
still get comments from just my time on say by
the Bell, which was a big show for a lot
of people.
Speaker 2 (55:48):
Short absolutely yeah, wow, well, thank you yes so much
for joining us.
Speaker 1 (55:56):
This has been really really cool. I've enjoyed it a lot,
learning the kind of behind the scenes, and I just
have to get out of my own way when it
comes to the wig. That's just me in my own way.
That's all it is.
Speaker 3 (56:05):
I get it. Just a pilot, well, that's all that was.
And then they spent a little money on a.
Speaker 1 (56:18):
Bed and then you're fine, Well, thank you so much
for joining.
Speaker 2 (56:21):
Us, Congratulations for doing I mean, yeah, that's a raven.
Hannah Montana, like we said, d legend, they let they
change the channel. They like groundbreaking with with you know
everything with that's a raven and then Hannah Montana it
translated into pop culture of itself and it just was.
Speaker 3 (56:41):
You know, what's it's you know, it's a writer creators
dream to get aboard something like that. It was really
the highlight of my career. Really.
Speaker 1 (56:48):
Well, well, thank you so much. We'd love to have
you back sometime. Yes, we want because I feel like
there's a lot more stories we want to is okay, good,
Thank you so much, Thank you, Aye.
Speaker 2 (57:03):
Man.
Speaker 1 (57:04):
I was literally texting with producer Jensen before about how
I could listen to stories like that all day, all day,
all day, from all the from Barney Miller, all the
way on different strokes. I could just sit there and
listen to the stories the other of my favorite Hollywood
television stories ever, so I mean.
Speaker 2 (57:19):
What an evolution of him having you know, however much
power and say when it came to certain things. So
then what he got to do when it got to
his time on hand in Montana and how much control
and how much I mean, think about that mentor aspect
of it getting put on Miley and Miley looking at
(57:40):
him and going what do you want?
Speaker 1 (57:41):
What do you want to do? This was what do
you want to do? Yeah, yeah, I'm here because of you.
What do you want?
Speaker 3 (57:45):
Right?
Speaker 2 (57:45):
And she by the time the show ended, think of
the explosive like fandom she had. I mean, the star
that she could have was. She could have just taken
it and said this is what I want? Yeah, and
instead she gave it to him.
Speaker 1 (57:58):
She could have said the most ridiculous thing in the
world and they would have been like, you got it, Okay.
She's like, no, no, this is he did this. What
do you want to know? Yeah? Thank you so much
for joining us, Michael, and thank you all for joining
us to get a little bit of a behind the
scenes to look at just how it's done. You know,
you get me. This is from from the actual creator
point of view, not a write, not just a writer,
(58:19):
but somebody who created the entire thing.
Speaker 2 (58:20):
And the Hollywood dream does come true. Guys get water
job do it for six years? And Sealer.
Speaker 1 (58:30):
Yeah, and originally about a Jewish girl from from New Jersey.
The original Hannah Montana about a Jewish girl from New Jersey. Wow,
so cool. Well, thank you everybody so much for joining us.
And don't forget because I think if I'm not mistaken,
which I probably am because I normally am, but actually
I think this time I'm not. The next movie we're
going to be doing is what can be considered kind
of the first d com ever. But there's a big
(58:52):
there's a big check mark next to it because uh,
there there are some some questionable people. There's some people
out there wondering if this is true or not. But
it is kind of to some people considered the first
ever dcom. We're doing next, which is nineteen ninety seven's
Northern Lights starring Diane Keaton, So make sure to check
out that review as well, And thank you so much
(59:14):
for joining us. And when I take off my headphones,
Jack again for just after talking to him, I h
it's it wasn't a bad movie just by the premise anyway,
Thank you everybody so much, and we will see you
next time.
Speaker 3 (59:27):
Bye.
Well, thank you so much everybody for joining us on
this amazing park Opper episode. I say it every week,
and I say it every week, and I say it
every week. Magical, amazing, incredible episode. But we keep getting
these guests that are just the best, whether they're in
front of the camera, They've written the script, they directed,
in this case, created two of the most popular shows
(00:37):
in the history of the channel.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
That changed the channel. They ibserved the channel into being
what we all love the Channel as it is today
like this with these were two big, big, big, big projects.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
I would argue one of them helped to change the
channel and the other one changed all of pop culture. Yeah,
I mean it's huge, huge, what this man is responsible for.
And we're so honored to have him here. We're not
going to wait another minute before we bring him in
because I don't want to leave him waiting because he's
just awesome and I'm so glad it's here. So can
you please help us welcome the creator of not only
(01:13):
that So Raven, but a little show called Hannah Montana
Michael Porrez. Hello, Hello, are you. I'm fine? Thank you
so much for joining us.
Speaker 3 (01:26):
Wow, my pleasure. I even wore my Hannah hat.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
I love it.
Speaker 3 (01:33):
I dove off a little bit and all of that.
Speaker 1 (01:36):
I love that. Well, don't put on a different color.
We might not recognize you.
Speaker 3 (01:39):
That's true.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
So we just reviewed the Hand of Montana movie, and
we are so honored to have you here to explain
how this juggernaut not only changed the channel but changed
all of pop culture. Really, I mean it became a job,
but it really did. I mean, it became It's put
it this way. I had I'd never seen the show.
I had never seen the film, but obviously knew everything
(02:04):
about Hannah Montana because it was in the zeitgeist. I mean,
it was everybody knew about it. So, I mean, before
I guess we get into that, we always like to
start with our guests of how did you find Hollywood?
Get into Hollywood? What was your origin story to finding
this amazing business of show?
Speaker 3 (02:24):
You know, it was always a part of me. My
grandfather was in the business of going back. He was
actually a pioneer in the business who his my great
grandfather started the first moving picture theater in Brooklyn.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
Oh you're kidding.
Speaker 3 (02:43):
And even before that, I'm related to my mother's name
and my grandfather's name was Harry Thomas, but that is
shortened for Thomaschevsky. And there was a Yiddish theater out
of Russia with Boris Tomashevsky. So I kind of come down.
(03:06):
In fact, Michael Tilson Thomas, the famous conductor, is a
second cousin. I've never met him. So it was always
in me. My uncle wrote, I don't know if you
remember something called the Bowery Boys.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
And course, of course Wrin Tin.
Speaker 3 (03:24):
Tin doctor killed there the Green Hornet. You know, I
was the spoiled little brat that got to go on
to the bat Cave set, you know, and the Green
Hornet and I and I went on the Bonanza set
and everything.
Speaker 1 (03:40):
And did you meet Bruce Lee?
Speaker 3 (03:43):
Yes? I did. I was with my uncle and we
were driving and it was bor like, hey, Bruce, come
on over here. They met my nephew, you know, and
he came over, a really nice guy, you know. But yeah,
it was always in me. I thought, you know, good
(04:03):
Jewish kid. You know, I'm going to go to college.
I'm going to be a lawyer. It never worked. I
dropped out once. Three times. I dropped out. I went
to U see Santa Barbara. I went to UC Berkeley.
I dropped out three times. Then I joined a comedy
troupe in Berkeley, and then when I was around twenty three,
(04:25):
I moved to La to be a stand up comic.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
Okay, wow, we've heard now this is such an interesting
path to writing and creating because we've heard a number
of people saying that they started doing stand up.
Speaker 3 (04:37):
Yeah, and the first and I was doing that. It
wasn't for me. The world at least then. I don't
know if it's the same world now. The world then
was very drug oriented and lots of cocaine and all
of that. That's not mean. And I started to I
always loved sitcoms, you know, Marry Taller, Moore Show, Bob
(05:01):
Mark Show, all those things, and so I started writing sitcoms.
And surprisingly, the person who helped me first, when he
was still a writer, he was not a stand up comic,
was Gary Shandling.
Speaker 1 (05:15):
Really yeah.
Speaker 3 (05:16):
He was writing Welcome Back Cotter and Sanford and Son,
and he would take my scripts and hand them back
to the old marked, you know. And he was getting
out of writing while I was getting in writing, and
of course he was going into stand up comedy. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
And then the Gary Shandling Show, and then Larry Sanders
and then everything that followed after that.
Speaker 3 (05:38):
Wow all true. As a matter of fact, my last
stand up gig, the thing that finally did it for
me to say bye bye. There was a comedy store
in Westwood, Yeah a time, and I was going to
go on the open mic, right, and I have a
little five minute routine and all this kind of stuff.
(05:59):
And there was like thirty people there and it was
twelve and I was going to go on in five
minutes until somebody walked in the room, right, and they
wanted to go on, assured me they'd only be ten minutes,
don't worry about it. And that guy was David Letterman.
And it was not David Letterman. It was David Letterman
(06:21):
when he was on I think Mary Tyler Moore had
a very failed variety show and he was on that
and he went on ten minutes became fifteen, which became
a half hour, which became forty five minutes. He left.
Literally twenty six people left with him, and I was
(06:42):
stuck with the four remaining drunk.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
Oh man, maybe this isn't for me.
Speaker 3 (06:49):
Yeah, maybe God is finally saying, do you get the message?
How much do I have to tell him?
Speaker 1 (06:58):
Oh? Yeah, how do you get that? So was it?
Speaker 3 (07:02):
Was?
Speaker 1 (07:02):
It then an instant transition to Okay, I'm going to
go right, I'm going to be a writer. I'm gonna
focus primarily on writing.
Speaker 3 (07:08):
I didn't even get there at the same time. Okay, okay,
you know. And so after that I kind of put
everything to writing and the script. Again, I don't I'm
dating myself. But the script that finally got me in,
broke me into getting some good opportunity was a spect
Barney Miller. I did, oh great show, which I adored
(07:29):
that show. It's probably one of the better things I've
ever written.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
I think, well, it's one of I mean, it's one
of the best shows in the history of television.
Speaker 3 (07:35):
Yeah, I would agree with that.
Speaker 1 (07:36):
Yeah, yeah, oh man, that's great. So, so did you
were you a staff writer for Barney Miller or do
you write?
Speaker 3 (07:42):
I never, I never. I never was able to get
the script to Barney Miller.
Speaker 1 (07:47):
Oh, it was just for you to spec.
Speaker 3 (07:50):
Yeah. And I was a waiter in Beverly Hills at
a place called r J's, the rib Joint, and it
was a really popular sawed us on the floor. I
wore jeans and a T shirt. But it was the
in place, and so I would I met my I
got my first agent by waiting tables. I got my
(08:11):
first pitch meeting by waiting tables. Wosh, because I would
wait tables and use my kind of joke kind of
thing to always joke around with the customers, and I
had a good time. And then when they would ask me,
so what are you doing, I'd say, well, I'm trying
to get into writing. Well, I happen to know blah,
(08:31):
and do you have anything? And I'd go down to
my locker and I'd get my spec Barney millscript.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
You're kidding me now, you're.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
Telling me you had the like iconic Hollywood dream when
people come they get a waiting job and you literally
just get the doors open to you because you're this
amazingly nice guy who's funny, and someone asks you, how
can I help you?
Speaker 3 (08:58):
That That was basically you know, I'm talking. You know.
This wasn't like, Oh, I get a waiter job and
two months later I'm on staff, get a waiter job,
and six years later, you know, I got my first opportunity.
And it was literally on eight when it was the
first year of the Disney Channel. Surprisingly wow, And it
(09:22):
was a show called Boy. I haven't talked about this.
This was a show called dream Finders. This is Ron Miller,
Walt Disney's son in law, was still head of the company. Yeah,
and so it was the first it was failed. We
did a whole lots of like, I don't know what
(09:44):
might have done, twenty episodes something like that. I never
saw the light of day, right, and then that was
my volley there and then I went in from that,
I got more prime time opportunities.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
Now, do you mind if I asked not to? You said,
you've you're dating yourself. But I'm just I'm very curious
because our fans who listened to this podcast are obviously
big Disney Channel fans. So you say it was the
first year of Disney Channel. What year is that.
Speaker 3 (10:13):
That's a really good question. If I had to guess,
it's probably in the early eighties.
Speaker 1 (10:19):
Okay, okay, eighty two eighty three ish kind of area.
Speaker 3 (10:24):
Okay, but I'm really not sure. But it was the
it was the first year of the Disney Channel, okay,
you know, and so we were going to use a
lot of things in Epcot. They flew us out to
look at Epcot. It was like Epcot was open. I
think maybe a year or two at that time.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
Yes, we just heard nineteen eighty three was the first
year of UH.
Speaker 2 (10:44):
And I remember them. There was always a big picture
of Epcot that would come around on the Disney I
was a Disney Channel kid. I don't remember a world
without it at all, and so I remember that Epcot.
There was always like a like a big vision of
it that came on the channel a lot. So that
makes that that's cool that you guys were sent there
(11:05):
and it was like a part.
Speaker 3 (11:06):
Of your There was like nobody there. Wow, So the
whole place was there was their crowd. No, people didn't
want to go Topcot. They were over there the Magic Kingdom.
Speaker 1 (11:17):
That's right. That the Epcot was going to close at
one point, they said in the eighties there was a
real chance that was going to shut down.
Speaker 3 (11:23):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (11:24):
Okay, So then you went from there to you said
more primetime shows, which can I ask some of the shows.
I'm a television fanatic, So.
Speaker 3 (11:31):
My my my first actual credits were like different strokes
call a show called Love Sydney.
Speaker 1 (11:43):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (11:44):
I had Tony Randall in it. Alice did one there,
and I did a couple of Who's the Boss scripts.
Oh my god, my first big staff primetime job was
I was was on the last two seasons and I
got this while I was on the last two seasons
of Facts of Life. Oh, come on, and I got
(12:07):
this where you know here I am, you know, thirty
thirty one year old Jewish guy. All his friends are
either doctors or lawyers or they're becoming successful business people.
And and I'm sitting there hoping my unemployment doesn't run
out as I'm still trying to find the big job.
At the time, I was developing something with a friend
(12:30):
of mine's mom. My friend was Bruce Kylish. His mom
is Irma Kalish, who was, as a woman, a pioneer
in comedy, television, comedy writing. Wow, it didn't work, but
then she got hired to run Facts of Life and
brought me over. That's how my big break happened. Based
(12:52):
on relationships. It wasn't based on being submitted or anything
like that. You know, we're in a business where the
first rule is there are no rules. Yeah right, you
don't know where it's going to come from. So that
was my first thing. So I was on two seasons
of that and then it was not picked up right
(13:15):
for that? That was like eight season, wasn't picked up
for a ninth Why because it only had a twenty
five share. In other words, the entire audience was watching
this show, and at that time that wasn't to know.
Speaker 1 (13:33):
No, that's incredible. You know how a bunch people would
freak if they got a twenty five share for anything
but the super Bowl? Right now? Yeah, no one, no one.
Speaker 3 (13:41):
Just an amazing thing, isn't it.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
Yeah, Well, I have to let you know that I
became an actor and knew I had to become an
actor and started professional when I was ten. And one
of the reasons was different strokes wo, so mash different
strokes and family ties are. I knew what I had
to do with my life. But Gary Coleman on different
Strokes was.
Speaker 3 (14:04):
What are you talking about? Willis was?
Speaker 1 (14:06):
I just saw him and I went, I have to
do that. And Dana Plato was my first ever on
screen crush. I mean it was. These were so important
to me, so, oh man, I can do Yeah, that's
the coolest thing ever. So then how do you go
from there to finding your way to then back to
the channel and creating shows for them.
Speaker 3 (14:23):
Well here's the non glorified road. But after Facts of Life,
I ended up getting a job on staff of a
show called Good Morning, Miss Bliss okay, which was an
ABC show. ABC did not pick it up past thirteen
I think it was, and NBC picked it up and
(14:46):
it became Saved by the Belt Okay. So I was
on the first season of Save by the bet Geez
after that, but still I didn't want its programming. I
didn't want to do that.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
I was going to ask you because, like, were you
feeling drawn to kids programming or at that point.
Speaker 3 (15:06):
What happened was I was drawn to employment.
Speaker 1 (15:10):
Under working yeah, you know.
Speaker 3 (15:13):
And then I got an opportunity coming off of that
into more primetime shows when a friend of mine, Bob Meyer,
started to get pilots and things, you know, and he
got something called Me and the Boys and that lasted
eighteen episodes, something called Joe's Life that lasted thirteen episodes.
Speaker 4 (15:36):
I was.
Speaker 3 (15:36):
I was on a show called out of This World
on staffed.
Speaker 1 (15:42):
My my it was out I'm sorry. Was out of
this World the one where she puts her fingers together
and stops time. Yeah yeah, okay, yeah, because an alien,
you know alien, yes, okay.
Speaker 3 (15:55):
And that all led to again Bob Meyer, who I
worked with, I'm getting a job running Sybil okay, and
he brought me on and so that was my first
really kind of high profile staff job. And then from
there I got onto Veronica's closet, geez, And you think
(16:17):
everything's going well, and from there Wick Wall, all of
a sudden, no work, right, And I'm doing my development
and I'm writing this thing or trying doing that way
and that. And then I heard that the Disney Channel
was looking to do their first four camera shop. Right, Well, me,
(16:42):
I want to work. I said, I'm going to get
a meeting over there. And a friend of minority had
a meeting over there and we both had meetings, both unsuccessful. Right,
all my primetime friends are basically saying, what the hell
are you doing? Geez? You don't give up on Braunt
if you go there, I mean, come on, you know,
(17:03):
and you know, because it wasn't the popular place to go.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
Yeah, We've had We've had interviews with actors, you know,
adult actors that said, you know, making making that choice
to go to Disney was it was a crap shoot,
and that's not like it was, but it.
Speaker 3 (17:18):
Was following just that's where there was opportunity, right, And
that worked into well what if you know, what if
a kid could see around the corner? Because my my
whole thing has always been in anything I write is
always about the truth first, relatability first, Why am I
(17:40):
writing it first? And then I'll lay on the funny.
I always say to everybody, I'm so not concerned about funny.
I'm concerned about the truth and being authentic. And if
I can do those things, I can make anything funny, right.
You know, I learned from Barney Miller and you know,
Mary Chyler, Moore, Bob Newhart. They weren't the stories told
(18:03):
weren't funny, it's how they did them and the reactions
and the relationships. And so that led to that, and
that led to my life in kids program which, by
the way, I far prefer it's so much fun working
with kid actors who want to learn right and and
(18:27):
that are so jazz that you do that, you do
what you know. But adult friends, if I was on
Civil over on yeah I saw your show. Yes, it's okay.
You never go oh, man, I really saw the last
episode of So Funny. You don't get that. You just
(18:48):
go yeah, yeah, you know, But with kids, they run up,
they hug you. I mean, why why isn't that better?
Speaker 2 (18:55):
Yeah? And you and you get a chance to implement
like really good messages, especially the Disney Channel, like good
morals and good decision making and all of that is
just it's magic.
Speaker 3 (19:07):
It's a higher responsibility because you have to write clean.
You can't go for the cheap joke. And my whole
thing is, I don't want to write anything. I wouldn't
let my kid watch. Yeah, right, And on both times
when I'm doing this kind of programming, I'm a dad first,
(19:27):
I'm a parent first. I'm a producer second, right, you know.
And so as far as where I am in those sets,
because a lot of things have been talked about about
all that stuff not on my set. You know, I
can't control what happens off my set, but I sure
as he can control what happens on it, you know.
(19:48):
And you know I've always had including myself, I know, rule,
you know, that's a great role. Nobody is that good,
including me, right, you know? With you, Yeah, and especially
in kids programming, you're in it. There's the door. You
can be replaced.
Speaker 1 (20:06):
Yeah we all can. Yeah, yeah, we all can all
the time. So then you're you go into Disney. Is
is your first pitch that's so raven?
Speaker 5 (20:25):
No?
Speaker 3 (20:26):
God, what what I think? My first pitch was a
time travel okay, and it almost went but then it didn't. No,
it almost went, but I think they had something else
(20:47):
phill of the future. Ah, there you go, they had
something else, and so they liked it almost almost almost know,
well what else? And then Susan Sherman and I got
together and came up with the premise of that's so raven.
It wasn't that so raven? You know, she was casting
initially she was the best friend. Oh wow, she was
(21:10):
so good that we redeveloped the whole We got picked up,
but we redeveloped the whole thing and put her as
the star and found a mom and a dad and
a brother. You know, in kids programming, you know, the
one thing you learn is it's the talent. The talent.
The talent writing is great, you need to be really
(21:32):
well well written, but the writing you can't treat. The
writing is precious. Writing has to follow the talent and
mold to the talent to get the most out of
the kids that are playing.
Speaker 2 (21:47):
Yeah, I mean and what I mean, what what a
superstar MVP to cast because she had an amazing career
already at that point.
Speaker 1 (21:59):
She's so good. And when she was coming off of Cosby,
wasn't she.
Speaker 2 (22:05):
With mister Cooper? She was little in Cosby? She had
kny with mister Cooper. I feel like she had quite
a bit of a good run on Fresh Prince of
bel Air as well. She was right, she had like
a I mean, she's just she's just amazing. She's been
working was teeny tiny, She's for Disney.
Speaker 3 (22:27):
You know how she came into the room audition wise,
she just came in the room. It's just you know,
and it was like okay, and it was it was like, well,
what scene would you like me to do? Okay? Uh,
can you do the second scene? Sure? And then you
(22:50):
do this I'm ready, Oh geez and nail it. Yeah,
no script, no pages? Well can you do the fifth one? Okay?
Speaker 2 (23:04):
Wow?
Speaker 3 (23:05):
Railed it like it was really like I was kind
of just blown away. And we went for her as
Chelsea Wow. Because the original girl was Caucasian.
Speaker 1 (23:19):
What do you remember the original title was it called
That's so Chelsea.
Speaker 3 (23:22):
No, it's called absolutely Psychica. That's a title that the
executive there at the time, Adam Bennette, came up with. Yeah,
I remember, yeah, so wow.
Speaker 2 (23:34):
You know, you know, because the channel at that time
the leads were Caucasian. There was no one at that
point that that was that was the head of the
show that was casing a different ethnicity.
Speaker 1 (23:49):
So she was.
Speaker 2 (23:49):
It was groundbreaking to put her in it and have
her be the lead, and there just wasn't anyone better
that was ever going to do it. The Braven just
nailed it out of the bark.
Speaker 3 (23:59):
But the reality is this was all about following the talent.
Had nothing to do with the fact that she was
African American did not play at all. It was she
was the best that walked in the room, right, She
was the best one, and that's why, you know, we
(24:21):
rejiggered everything. It was following the talent and no other reason.
The same you know with Miley, I'll tell you Miley
wasn't Miley. You know, initially fantastic. What I had created
initially was a Jewish girl from New York. Oh wow,
that's what she was. That's what Hannah Montana was and
(24:43):
her father was a studio musician, right okay, And then
Miley was, you know, sent in videotapes after videotapes after
videotape auditions, and we kept saying no, you know, because
she was so great. We had this big show. We
can't put it all on there. But her auditions got
(25:06):
better and better and better, and so Disney, the generous
people they are that, well, she can come out of
an audition in front of us as long as they
pay for it. Then she came out and unlike Raven,
(25:30):
you know, Miley came into the room going how you
doing right? But the character was supposedly somebody that was
kind of kind of insecure and shy until they got
on stage, right. Well, Miley was the opposite of that.
She read and was not the best one, but she
(25:55):
was so genuine and authentic and she just took it
and made the rolled her own. We had another person,
her name was Danielle Something I think, who nailed every joke, everything,
everything right. But there was something that the camera just
adored about Miley. So we decided that we were going
(26:19):
to roll the dice and take a chance on on
Miley and then we we here after we decide that
can we talk to you guys for a minute, and
Billy Ray wants to come in audition, and it was
like a lot of us were kind of going like.
Speaker 1 (26:37):
Oh, he's way too old to play Hannah Montana.
Speaker 3 (26:45):
Yes, exactly him. We were going like, oh, come on,
we don't want Achy breaking Heart to be the dad
we're going to be able to act, you know, And
and we said sure, shared delighted, and he came in
and to our surprise, absolutely nailed it.
Speaker 2 (27:07):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (27:07):
But even more than that, he got Miley from Here
to hear Oh right, because you can't buy that chemistry?
Speaker 1 (27:14):
No, you can't. Is it?
Speaker 3 (27:16):
Was it?
Speaker 1 (27:16):
Daniella Monet? Yes, Okay, there we go. I was looking
back at my notes. There was a number of people
that audition for Hannah Montana that were have gone on
to do huge things.
Speaker 2 (27:29):
Jojo is one of them, and she was a like
she had a mega hit at that point.
Speaker 3 (27:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:36):
Wasn't Ali from Ali and Aj one of them as well?
I thought I thought Ali might have been one, or
I'm not quite she.
Speaker 2 (27:42):
Would have been perfect age at that time.
Speaker 3 (27:45):
Hundreds, Yeah, I know.
Speaker 2 (27:47):
I can't even imagine how many you guys auditioned because
I was around with the Cheetah Girls as this was
I was at the upfront when Hannah Montana got introduced
to you know, the world industry, in the world, and
I mean it was the energy of everyone, Gary Marsh,
every single person that was there from everyone was so amped,
(28:09):
like they had this like heavy hitter into the game.
This was like gonna blow up the world, and it did,
so I know, even just the audition process had to
have been grueling. You guys saw probably everyone that had
an agent at that point.
Speaker 3 (28:25):
Yeah, it was an exciting time. But you know, and
I kind of missed that, this is when the ideas
that were generated over there were It was about the idea.
It was about discovering new talent. Wasn't about redoing anything
(28:45):
or playing anything safe. Everything they had took a chance,
right High School Musical took a big chance that was
incredibly courageous, and all the stars lined up because we
premiered right after they did. It wasn't by design. You know,
you had these two things that came out of a
(29:07):
box and what like that, and that set the stage
for Hannah that just it just picked that up and
what like that. Yeah, it was really quite exciting.
Speaker 2 (29:18):
Well it was also Hannah itself was really courageous too,
in the sense that Disney had not done to think
of an episodic type show and having a music, big
performance type aspect was I know, something that they were
really concerned on how they were going to pull that off,
you know, with budget and how to how to do that.
(29:40):
And I remember that being a thing as it was
going around, and the end result was great. I mean
it was it made sense. It was like you know,
but that was a big thing because they hadn't done
a big musical production outside of that point from the movies.
It was not done on a show at that point.
Speaker 3 (29:57):
The thing that I wanted to bring to it is,
you know, hey, let's do something about a music star
and isn't it great to be famous and out in
the world. And as I said, where I come from
is I think that's that's fine, but it's not relatable.
It's not a human condition, you know, And so was
born Well, what if that's a secret and she wants
(30:21):
to be treated like a regular girl, And what if
that was because when she was starting to get famous,
she had a best friend at the time that started
to treat her differently, right, and that friendship went confluently
when and so that's why Hannah the whole split personality
(30:42):
was born. That's far more interesting. You know. Right now,
I'm going to a lot of colleges and stuff and
guesting talking about Hannah, and you know, these you know,
really smart people come up to me and go, you
don't know what it meant to me? Yeah, thisisode. I
was going through this and this and this, and then
(31:02):
I saw that episode and she can get through that.
I can get through that, you know, was like, oh
my god, it's at all the work developing stories the
way we did paid off. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (31:15):
Well, I mean here's a perfect example. So I'm obviously
I am a forty eight year old man. I had
not watched Hannah Montana growing up. I did not. I
knew I knew what it was because again it was
in the zeitgeist, but I'd never seen it before. So
we had just watched the movie, and I, being the
curmudgeon that I am, I have had a difficult time
getting over the fact that no one recognized her when
(31:37):
she just put on a wig. Okay, Superman right exactly. So,
as I'm saying this on the podcast, we have a
chat going next to us of all the producers. I
had five or six producers that were all all women
and all the right age, writing in how could you
be thinking this? This is what we I mean, just
jumping to the defense of Hannah Montana. This meant so
(32:00):
much to people, it did. It meant so much to people.
Speaker 2 (32:04):
It really did change Ada.
Speaker 3 (32:11):
I'll tell you and well maybe it's a known story,
but it might be an unknown story, but I'm going
to tell it anyway. Please at the end without mentioning names,
Disney wanted us to wrap up the end by saying
that Miley Cyrus wakes up and there's Billy and her
real mom, and she says, I just had this crazy dream, okay,
(32:36):
and that was Hannah Montana, right okay? And I said, no.
Speaker 1 (32:42):
No, what.
Speaker 3 (32:45):
You can't do that. You know, the fans and everybody
that it meant so much to to tell them it
was all a dream is wrong. I want to send
the message that there's start of end, there's college, and
you know which one do you pick? And I wanted
her to pick college because you can always go back
(33:06):
start him or whatever. And I will say to you
that it came down to one person which way that
was going to go right, because Disney really wanted their
way right and I really wanted my way. The deciding
factor was Miley. Yeah, Miley said, I'll go either way,
but I I I whatever Michael wants right. And it
(33:30):
was really quite something.
Speaker 4 (33:31):
You know.
Speaker 3 (33:32):
You had this girl stand up and and really take
a thing, and so she gave me what I wanted
and what it was in my head and that's why
it ended that way.
Speaker 1 (33:45):
That's wonderful. Now, was there ever pushback by Disney or
anybody at the beginning about the wig, like you got
to change her look more than just the wig or
the way. If you saw the pilot I did.
Speaker 3 (33:57):
The pilot had the worst wig in it. It was
so bad they cheaped out. So I was crazy because
that wig looked like she was like what a like?
You know, all she needed was she was a fifty
year old chorus girl doing in Vegas, you know, but.
Speaker 2 (34:16):
We appreciate that about the movie. The wig in the
movie was so good.
Speaker 1 (34:20):
It was a good wig.
Speaker 2 (34:21):
It was a good and the.
Speaker 3 (34:22):
Wig in the series, for the most part, was a
really good wig. They went from spending one hundred and
fifty dollars, right, who I think the wig in the series,
and so they had to get a couple of them.
Might have been at the time fifteen hundred, yeah, something
like that. Yeah, and so they finally had a good wig,
(34:42):
but the wig and they got almighty. The wig in
the pilot was awesome.
Speaker 2 (34:56):
Did you guys when you shot that first season? The
performances were obviously all shot in one or two days
or whatever whatever, but they were together, right, she did
one routine after another. Was that that that was later
on because that wig was even better than the actual
pilot pilot wig, the one that's in the opening credits
(35:17):
and then when she comes out and doesn't quickly that
was later on in the season, right, Yeah, just the
episode with the wig, the one wig.
Speaker 3 (35:25):
Oh yeah, we actually got the first four or five
episodes not in front of an audience.
Speaker 2 (35:36):
Oh, really want the.
Speaker 3 (35:37):
Kids to get used to each other. And so then
when we were super in front of the audience, and
that was like the fifth or sixth episode, everything just.
Speaker 1 (35:47):
Yeah, yeah, right, there's nothing like the energy of an
audience show.
Speaker 3 (35:51):
No. But the one thing that we you know, I
had a whole lot of fun teaching Miley was had
a hold, you know, and how to listen and how
to wait for that laugh. She was so eager. She
knew everybody's lines, and so when somebody was talking to her,
she wasn't listening to what they were saying. She was going,
(36:12):
when they're done, I get to talk.
Speaker 4 (36:14):
Yeah, And so she wasn't putting expression on her face
and reacting and knowing, you know, you've got your line,
the camera's on you.
Speaker 3 (36:25):
You're in control, right. It's like getting ready to make
the punch, you know, but you've got to really feel it.
I had this thing with her where I would go
out and I would say, Okay, I'm going to make
it simple. I want you to listen to the person talking.
I want to see your expression, your attitude on your
(36:46):
face about what you think about what they're saying, right,
and then I want you to say your line, because
if you do all those things, your line's crazy. You're
going to get the laugh. It's crazy. This is the
important stuff. It's like, you know, building a house on
a really bad foundation, or building it on a good foundation.
(37:07):
So listening expression, that's a great foundation. So when you
say that line, you done nail it right. And she
finally got it to a point where I would go,
I'd be starting getting out of my chair to go
on to the set, and she'd say, I know, and
I would come back and sit down. That's it.
Speaker 2 (37:31):
Wow. It seems like she was just really ready to
be a sponge and absorb everything that she could, learn,
everything that she could to keep going. She had such
huge dreams, but she knew that she had to get
steps to get there.
Speaker 3 (37:46):
You know. She seems she was living the life of
the character. Yeah, where she was living. You know, as
it got more popular and more popular, you have more
false friends, Yeah, coming out of the woodwork treatingly.
Speaker 5 (38:04):
You know.
Speaker 3 (38:05):
And you know, it was smart of her because what
her parents were saying, what I was saying to her
was hold onto the people that knew you before.
Speaker 1 (38:13):
Yep, right, hugely important, right.
Speaker 3 (38:16):
That treat you like like, go, okay, you're a star.
That's nice. Yeah, I'm exec producing the biggest show in
kids television, and I have friends of mine that are
still saying, oh shut.
Speaker 1 (38:27):
Up, yeah, yeah, really those are and those are the
friends that are always going to be there, and there's
still ones that matter. Well, you said, as you were
getting more popular, when did you realize what the show was.
Speaker 3 (38:41):
I realized that in the first reason, Oh did you when?
And it wasn't the show. It was going to the
first concert, okay. And when you walked out and you
heard the screams, I've never heard something that loud and
that high pitched and that and you look and you
went like, oh my god.
Speaker 2 (39:03):
And you look around and every single kid has seven
pieces of.
Speaker 6 (39:07):
Merchandise, like not one shirt, like an adults like the bandana,
the lantern, the book, the everything, until.
Speaker 3 (39:17):
You've heard that sound and when that is when I
really realized what it was. Yeah, before that.
Speaker 1 (39:27):
But I mean the number the numbers for the channel
were monster, weren't they They were right out of the
gate massive.
Speaker 2 (39:34):
But it felt like everyone at the channel knew this
was going to happen. I mean, yes, there was a gamble,
but it just seemed like everyone was behind it and
believed in this brand that they were about to kick off.
They all just felt it was right and it was
the right timing and it was just set up so well.
And I mean, now that you've explained why, it's like, wow, yeah,
(39:57):
you know, I mean, you guys, And then continued to
have a ton of guest stars.
Speaker 1 (40:02):
Well, that's what I wanted to ask you about it.
I'd like to name a couple guest stars for you,
if that's okay, and I'd like you to tell me
if you remember what it was like to work with them.
So we've got to start with one of the greatest
of all time, Dolly Parton.
Speaker 3 (40:14):
Fabulous. You know a lot of people are are different
when you there, and they're not their personas sure everything
you expect Dolly Parton would be. She wash, that's wonderful.
It was the sweetest person all she said whenever it
was saying, So what can we get you? Can we
(40:34):
have anything in your dressing room? Can we get you flowers?
Can we better? You want some makeup, you want to
work anything? You want? Anything you want, right, darling, all
I need is a dressing room in a toilet. Yes,
that was it. She got everything else. She was delightful,
(40:55):
not a bad thing to say. She is everything you
think she would be, not to disappointing at all. She
was great.
Speaker 1 (41:01):
So how about Selena Gomez.
Speaker 3 (41:05):
Selena Gomez was then pretty darn shy.
Speaker 1 (41:10):
Really, I don't believe that.
Speaker 2 (41:12):
I can believe that.
Speaker 3 (41:13):
Yeah, and you know you would give her notes and
would be very quiet and what have you. And she
went and she did her thing. She she didn't have
any I don't know if she was a star really
when she was on. Her show was just starting, but
there was no attitude or anything. She was Again, my
(41:33):
memory was she was just very very quiet and the
opposite of my I think she was a little nervous
because her show was just starting and she's on this show. Yeah,
but I don't have anything. I didn't really get to
know her all that well. But she seemed like a
sweet kid.
Speaker 1 (41:55):
How about the Jonahs brothers.
Speaker 3 (41:58):
Jonah's brothers were all nice, you know, they were all
nice guys. Yeah, you know, quite honestly acting.
Speaker 1 (42:07):
You know, but they they're rock stars.
Speaker 3 (42:09):
Yeah, they didn't come with any attitude, you know, if
you had a note, why don't you try this? Or that.
They were very nice to do it, but acting wise,
you know, not the not the best ones. And I
think they all knew it right.
Speaker 2 (42:27):
Yeah. They I feel like they were so realistic of
again wanting to wanting to learn, how taking notes, how
can I be better? Absolutely?
Speaker 3 (42:35):
And also a very very solid family.
Speaker 1 (42:38):
Yeah that's hugely important, which is very very important. Am
I getting this right, was Larry David on the show?
Speaker 3 (42:45):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (42:46):
What was that? Like?
Speaker 3 (42:47):
That was great? You know, he's he called Steve Peterman,
who I was co running the show with, and they
he wanted tickets, you know, to come with his daughter
see the show. And maybe it sent up down on
stet and all this.
Speaker 1 (43:04):
Yeah, and it.
Speaker 3 (43:05):
Was just I think Curb was in the first year,
two three years, something like that. And then Steve says,
what you want to be on the show? You know,
and by the recounting was what you know, wait a minute, wait,
wait wait yeah, well, well can you be on the
show here? We can write you in something. Well, I
(43:28):
have Curb, I have Curb, I have Curb. Give me
a minute, give me, I'll call you back. Right. He
changed his whole schedule for right to come with his
two daughters to guest star on the show. And you
know the bit was, you know, he's waiting and I
think a Chinese restaurant with his two daughters in embarrassing right.
Speaker 2 (43:51):
Yeah, so you know it was a kick.
Speaker 3 (43:54):
I mean, you have this guy who's fricking genius, yeah
to your show asking you do you have a line
here for you?
Speaker 1 (44:05):
That would be great?
Speaker 2 (44:07):
Wow?
Speaker 1 (44:07):
And what about finally the rock.
Speaker 3 (44:11):
Oh my god, the sweetest Oh thank you God, you
just saved Sabrina right there, he would have ripped up
like a girl. We had makeup, we had nails, and
he did anything we wanted.
Speaker 1 (44:28):
Oh that's great, anything you want.
Speaker 2 (44:31):
I can't. Oh man, you.
Speaker 1 (44:33):
Would have risen. You would have just crushed Sabrina.
Speaker 2 (44:36):
Oh no, I love him so much.
Speaker 3 (44:39):
He was nowhere. I mean, I can tell you some
people that were poles. Now there's one, right, I gotta
know doctor Phil really absolutely.
Speaker 1 (44:52):
Oh wow, that's a shame.
Speaker 3 (44:55):
You can talk to anybody in the car with my
doing the scene. Miley tried to make small talk with him.
He didn't engage. Oh wow, why are you here? Yeah,
this was not a nice man, and maybe there was
something else going on. But you're you're around kids. This
should be fun.
Speaker 2 (45:16):
This is a kid, Yeah, like bring the kid with
This list also has Austin Butler. So it had to
have been when he was on the like very beginning
of his career, right.
Speaker 3 (45:30):
I don't remember what did he I don't know, I
don't know.
Speaker 2 (45:34):
It had to have been when he was really young.
Speaker 3 (45:36):
I'll tell you another jet. Well, Vicky Lawrence terrific on Prior.
What a sweetheart, brilliant, just a total sweetheart. But I'll
give you one of my favorite stories. And he wasn't
on the show, but he brought his kid, Sylvester Stallone.
Speaker 5 (45:54):
You're kidding, Oh my gosh, the show and he said
to me, you know, well, I gotta, I gotta, I
gotta tell you, he said.
Speaker 3 (46:04):
Finally, finally I did something that impresses my kids. Oh
my god, this is.
Speaker 1 (46:16):
Twice.
Speaker 3 (46:16):
Come on, I'm finally doing something.
Speaker 1 (46:22):
My whole life I was Cobra.
Speaker 2 (46:34):
So I do have to ask, because I remember, you know,
the energy and things that were going on during this time.
But what was it like during the Vanity Fair controversy
and it was such a big deal. Was that stressful
for you guys, you know, for the shows, like the
writers and keeping like the integrity of what you guys
(46:55):
had built at that point for the brand.
Speaker 3 (46:57):
It wasn't. We just kept doing what we did. Did
I like it? Not? Really? Yeah, because it kind of
flew in the face of the brand that was going on.
But that's the kind of thing I stayed out of
and I let them Disney and the parents handle that.
Did I agree with it? Not No, not really. Did
(47:20):
I let that invade and infect and you know, did
I project that I was disappointed in Miley or anything
like that? No? Did I lay more more of the
responsibility on her parents?
Speaker 2 (47:34):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (47:35):
Yeah, well you have to.
Speaker 3 (47:36):
I had to move on and do my job and
be there for her and all that. Like I said,
on my side, I got what I wanted. I can't
control what happens when I'm not on my.
Speaker 2 (47:48):
Set, right, Yeah, I think there is a point of allowing.
You know, I'm sure you became a parental figure for
a mentor, and there is a part of of that
age that she's just in. When you're working with kids
that are becoming teenagers into their adulthood, right, it probably
(48:08):
felt like you had to let her go and make choices,
and whether they were mistakes or not.
Speaker 3 (48:13):
You know, and look at the big effect that had nothing.
Speaker 1 (48:18):
That's the thing. If anything, it did exactly one thing
you wanted to do.
Speaker 6 (48:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (48:22):
I mean sure, there's a lot of those quote unquote
Disney kids that want to break away from the Disney
image and they'll do it in a big, splashy way,
and sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. I know,
other Disney kids that have done nudity or that kind
of thing, and it does it backfires, It just doesn't.
Speaker 3 (48:36):
You know. It's an interesting thing. You know. Miley is
really instinctively smart, right, and so when you look at
what she's doing, there's thought behind it.
Speaker 6 (48:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (48:52):
Yeah, And she's really smart and she makes her moves
and you can see by how she has led her
career up and up and up and up in the
songs that she's doing and the choices she's making, and
it's like, wow, way good for you, because so few
that that hit that kind of stardom don't keep their
(49:12):
heads on straight. Yeah she is. She is completely in
charge of her career.
Speaker 1 (49:20):
Yeah, yeah, she definitely is. So I have a question
for you. Wait, love that you've been spending this much
time with us. So one of the things we like
we like to ask is it's your series you've got
you did four seasons. Is there a favorite episode that
you have is the one that sticks out for you
as that's my favorite one?
Speaker 3 (49:40):
Well, yeah, you know, there's an episode that sticks sticks
out to me because it's so I'm most proud of it. Okay,
in the last season and we did an episode about
the military and about military families and Miley going out
(50:04):
with a guy who kept I think not Jake, it
was the other one going out with a guy that
kept canceling on her right, and she got in a
little bit of a snitty fit about it. And then
we find out the reason he kept canceling on her
is his dad is in the military overseas and when
(50:26):
he calls, he has to drop everything and take the call. Yeah. Right,
And it was the about an appreciation, that appreciation of
military families and the next time you see a kid
who has a parent overseas serving, maybe you'll have a
little bit more appreciation for it. Miley sang my favorite
(50:51):
song was written by chen Nieman called bin Here. All along,
we had real families on the set. We had real
soldiers talking to the family and delivering messages, and it
hit me that, you know, we're doing an episode. We're
(51:13):
doing a children's program, a kids and family program. What
other program could have done that story? Yeah, where you're
doing something it's about something so serious and we can
still be funny, but we're in the we're at a
level where when our audience watched that show and they
(51:36):
now have this kid who seems military or that or
what have you, that they have a far larger appreciation
for the sacrifice not only of the parent that's in
the military, but of what the family goes through. That's
the I'm most proud of.
Speaker 1 (51:55):
That amazing by the way, the care we just found
out again from one of our mega fans producers that
the character's name was Jesse.
Speaker 3 (52:02):
That's it. I will also tell you that where I'm
most proud of Miley the performance she made that I
just thought was like Lucille ball time, right, it was
so good. We did an episode I forget what it
was in second or third season about her getting paid
(52:23):
a lot of money to advertise a product she hates. Oh,
and we also established that when Miley lies, the character
Miley Stewart lies, she just sweats just a little bit,
just a little bit, right. And now she's on this
Larry King kind of show and Larry King is asking
(52:45):
about this product and she's starting to say how oh
I love it and this and the other thing, and
she starts to sweat from under the wig, right, And
we said to her, smells like teens sellout that you know.
(53:07):
He said to her, no matter what happens, until you
hear the director, you'll cut you keep going right, and
so we turned it up right. He was coming down,
she was, you know, with a going and stayed in character.
(53:27):
I was falling off my chair so much because very
few could just stay, stay there, stay there. This was
Lucy oldball and.
Speaker 1 (53:42):
And rather chocolate chocolates, and it's why.
Speaker 3 (53:49):
It's I just adored that. That just sort of said, Okay,
she's there, she's got it. Yeah, nothing we can do.
Speaker 1 (53:58):
That's amazing. Well, before we say goodbye to you, because
this has been amazing again, I could hear television history
stories for my entire life. I love this one of
my favorite things. Ever, what do you hope new fans,
because of streaming it comes around, it's never gone anymore.
What do you hope new fans take away from Annah Montana?
Speaker 3 (54:22):
Well, you know, the exciting things about new fans for
me is that they like it as much as the
old fans liked them, and they're getting the same messages.
Because one of the things that I was really a
stickler on is I didn't want to do anything that
was dated. I didn't want to do anything that was
(54:43):
of the time politically or socially. I just wanted to
do universal truths that were true when I was growing
up and today and tomorrow, and just stayed with things
that were incredibly solid and relatable. So I think the
reason fans today really like it is it's it speaks
(55:05):
to those fundamentals that are in all twelve year olds, yeah,
and eight year olds and nine year olds and ten
year olds. So you know, I'm just I love the
fact that it's finding another audience. I think it's so cool.
Speaker 2 (55:19):
Yeah it is. And now the new audience, a lot
of them probably have parents that were pans of it,
and this is another like it's just like a two
generational home happening. And they also have the stories of
the grandparents telling them how they went and took their
parents to a Miley Cyrus concert, you know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (55:41):
It's like, I mean all of those I mean I
still get comments from just my time on say by
the Bell, which was a big show for a lot
of people.
Speaker 2 (55:48):
Short absolutely yeah, wow, well, thank you yes so much
for joining us.
Speaker 1 (55:56):
This has been really really cool. I've enjoyed it a lot,
learning the kind of behind the scenes, and I just
have to get out of my own way when it
comes to the wig. That's just me in my own way.
That's all it is.
Speaker 3 (56:05):
I get it. Just a pilot, well, that's all that was.
And then they spent a little money on a.
Speaker 1 (56:18):
Bed and then you're fine, Well, thank you so much
for joining.
Speaker 2 (56:21):
Us, Congratulations for doing I mean, yeah, that's a raven.
Hannah Montana, like we said, d legend, they let they
change the channel. They like groundbreaking with with you know
everything with that's a raven and then Hannah Montana it
translated into pop culture of itself and it just was.
Speaker 3 (56:41):
You know, what's it's you know, it's a writer creators
dream to get aboard something like that. It was really
the highlight of my career. Really.
Speaker 1 (56:48):
Well, well, thank you so much. We'd love to have
you back sometime. Yes, we want because I feel like
there's a lot more stories we want to is okay, good,
Thank you so much, Thank you, Aye.
Speaker 2 (57:03):
Man.
Speaker 1 (57:04):
I was literally texting with producer Jensen before about how
I could listen to stories like that all day, all day,
all day, from all the from Barney Miller, all the
way on different strokes. I could just sit there and
listen to the stories the other of my favorite Hollywood
television stories ever, so I mean.
Speaker 2 (57:19):
What an evolution of him having you know, however much
power and say when it came to certain things. So
then what he got to do when it got to
his time on hand in Montana and how much control
and how much I mean, think about that mentor aspect
of it getting put on Miley and Miley looking at
(57:40):
him and going what do you want?
Speaker 1 (57:41):
What do you want to do? This was what do
you want to do? Yeah, yeah, I'm here because of you.
What do you want?
Speaker 3 (57:45):
Right?
Speaker 2 (57:45):
And she by the time the show ended, think of
the explosive like fandom she had. I mean, the star
that she could have was. She could have just taken
it and said this is what I want? Yeah, and
instead she gave it to him.
Speaker 1 (57:58):
She could have said the most ridiculous thing in the
world and they would have been like, you got it, Okay.
She's like, no, no, this is he did this. What
do you want to know? Yeah? Thank you so much
for joining us, Michael, and thank you all for joining
us to get a little bit of a behind the
scenes to look at just how it's done. You know,
you get me. This is from from the actual creator
point of view, not a write, not just a writer,
(58:19):
but somebody who created the entire thing.
Speaker 2 (58:20):
And the Hollywood dream does come true. Guys get water
job do it for six years? And Sealer.
Speaker 1 (58:30):
Yeah, and originally about a Jewish girl from from New Jersey.
The original Hannah Montana about a Jewish girl from New Jersey. Wow,
so cool. Well, thank you everybody so much for joining us.
And don't forget because I think if I'm not mistaken,
which I probably am because I normally am, but actually
I think this time I'm not. The next movie we're
going to be doing is what can be considered kind
of the first d com ever. But there's a big
(58:52):
there's a big check mark next to it because uh,
there there are some some questionable people. There's some people
out there wondering if this is true or not. But
it is kind of to some people considered the first
ever dcom. We're doing next, which is nineteen ninety seven's
Northern Lights starring Diane Keaton, So make sure to check
out that review as well, And thank you so much
(59:14):
for joining us. And when I take off my headphones,
Jack again for just after talking to him, I h
it's it wasn't a bad movie just by the premise anyway,
Thank you everybody so much, and we will see you
next time.
Speaker 3 (59:27):
Bye.
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Will Friedle
Sabrina Bryan
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