January 30, 2020 • 32 mins
When Bobbi Brown couldn't find a major she wanted, she created her own at Emerson College. When she didn't want to conform to the style of the times, she innovated a more natural make-up look. And when she couldn't find the make-up she wanted to purchase, she created her own. Tune in as Bob and Bobbi chat about what it takes to launch an insanely successful brand, why young entrepreneurs should be a little more patient before looking for that Series A, and why she wore jeans every time she was invited to the White House! Plus, hear about Bobbi's new pursuits, from opening a hotel, diving into the wellness industry, where she sees green space in the make-up industry and why she's launching a new podcast-- Beyond the Beauty with Bobbi Brown-- with iHeart! (You should tune in to that one too!)
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
You're listening to Math and Magic production I Heart Radio.
For years, cosmetics companies and beauty companies will be telling
people what's wrong with them. You need this cream because
your skin is bad. You need this foundation because you're
the wrong color. You need this because you have to
change the shape of your nose. That's not true. Yes,
(00:21):
you want to look good, but if you don't feel good,
you're not gonna look good. And it's not about weight
or diet, It's just about feeling good. Hi, I'm Bob Pittman.
Welcome to Math and Magic Stories from the Frontiers and Marketing,
(00:42):
where we examine that special mix of art and science
that's behind the great marketing and business successes. On this episode,
we have someone with strong creative and business skills, an
unmatched charm and determination, and the successes and brands to
prove it. Bobby Brown. Bobby is sometimes described as a
(01:06):
makeup artist, but that is like calling Steve Jobs a
computer salesperson. She created a billion dollar cosmetics business that
carries her name. She's written nine books about beauty and makeup.
She has been a contributing editor from magazines and online.
She's a regular part of our own I Heart Radio's
Elvis Durand's Morning show. She has danced on stage with Florida.
She was a regular on The Today Show, and she
(01:28):
is currently doing even more businesses. And with all that,
she managed to find some life work balance with her
family and she's a lot of fun. Bobby welcome, Thanks
so much. That's so sweet. We're gonna dig into a
bunch of the stories, but first I want to dig
into you in sixty seconds. So this first thing that
comes in your head, Tequila, I love that you asked
(01:48):
me the first thing that came in my head. Do
you prefer sunrise and sunset? Sunrise Montclair, New Jersey or
who Will met? Illinois? Montclair, New Jersey, Chicago, New York,
New York Instagram or Twitter Instagram snapper TikTok neither coffee
or tea, espresso, Beetles or Stones, Stones chocolate or vanilla chocolate,
(02:09):
still or sparkling Still? Are you ready? It's about to
get harder? Favorite hip hop artist, flow Right, smartest person
you know, my husband, childhood hero and d Alice first
job selling shoes at Carson Perry Scott. Favorite movie, love story,
worst de beauty trend, so many contouring one superpower you'd
like to have to be a better dancer. Favorite cocktail
(02:32):
tequila or vodka, Last vacation, Bahamas, secret talent. I think
I'm funny. Title of your memoir, what would it be?
It'll be all pictures, no words. Who would play you
in a movie? Jennifer Anderson proudest accomplishment, my three children
And what's something you can't live without? My family? Okay,
let's go. You get credit for introducing natural looking makeup
(02:53):
at the dawn of the nineteen nineties. What was going
on at that time and what were you rebelling against
a makeup at that time? Right before the whole scene
in New York was a lot of parties, a lot
of going out to the clubs. Women were doing makeup
like multi colored eyes and overlined lips and all this
crazy stuff. And when I came to New York, I
(03:15):
got a job to do a cover of Cosmopolitan at
Jerry Hall. I tried everything in my power to do
her makeup grade and she was so kind and she said,
beautiful job, but can I have the mirror. I gave
her the mirror and she said, can I just make
a few touches? She redid her whole face, and I
learned watching I didn't feel bad, I really learned, but
(03:35):
I realized I can't do that kind of makeup. So
I started doing it my way and it kind of
slowly caught on. So what was your inspiration for your way?
Because this was not the way now? It was definitely
not the way. When I was in middle school, I
wanted to be pretty and I didn't think I was,
and I would use my mom's makeup to make me
look tan and pretty. I don't want anyone to know
(03:56):
is wearing makeup. And then when I became a makeup artist,
I started doing that two models. People told me I'd
never worked. If you want to work, you have to
learn to do the other thing. But I just couldn't
do it, and so I started doing it my way,
and it's slowly slowly took on. What big names adopted
your style that sort of gave you cred and sort
(04:17):
of pushed you over that tipping point for you. I
did a cover of Rolling Stone with Annie Leebowitz, and
I made the guys look good, and Keith Richard's manager
came over to me and said, oh my god, can
we book you again? And so I got a couple
of times got hired to do it because I always
made people look healthy. Stones that's pretty good. That was
pretty good. That's pretty good. So I want to dig
(04:39):
into this a lot more, But first I want to
go back to your roots. You were born in the
late fifties in Chicago. You grew up in the suburbs
will matt home of the famous New Trier High School.
Can you paint the picture of those times. I'm the
oldest of three kids. I was born to my family
when my mother was twenty and my dad one very
good looking couple. My dad and a tourney and my
(05:01):
mama homemaker. By the time they were had three kids,
were living in the suburbs, pretty normal, but my parents
were very young. So I would come home and they'd
be in our TV room with all their friends going
to a concerts, and like, guys, I smell that. What
is that? So I kind of grew up around a
lot of you know, things that were happening at the time.
(05:23):
I understand you had a very special bond with a
very entrepreneurial grandfather. Yes, Papa Sam. What impact did he
have on your business, because evidently he was a hell
of an entrepreneur and a great business mine. Well, it's funny.
I really learned a lot watching Papa Sam. I just
saw how much he cared about the people that bought
his cars, the people that worked for him. He was
constantly marketing his own business. He was putting his photos
(05:45):
and envelopes with kids, would sit with them and mail
the things out, and told great stories. He knew al
Capone and Whitey and all these guys. They all bought
cars from him, and he was just larger than life
for a teeny little funny man. All of five too,
by the way. So what was the best Alcohoone story?
Not the best Alcophone store. But my favorite Papa story
(06:06):
was one day this man came into the car dealership,
looked like he'd been sleeping on the street at two
garbage bags, and no one would wait on him, not
one person in his office. So he went over and
he said, hey, doc, what can I do for you?
And the guy said, I want to buy a car.
He said, all right, I'll show you some cars. The
bags were full of cash. He bought two cars cash.
And so Papa always taught me that you cannot judge
(06:27):
by what someone looks like. How about your dad a
lawyer and my dad he was a business person, big influence.
My dad was a lawyer till he was seventy. He
retired and is now a children's book author. He's a
very cool young eighty four year old. He's had quite
a life. But my dad used to come home from
his law job and sit down with me and do
creative things, drawing and photography and art, and he talked
(06:50):
about things that father's you wouldn't think they would talk about.
He taught me about dating, He taught me about men.
He really wanted me to go away to school and
study something super interesting in Spain or somewhere, and I
ended up studying makeup in college. It worked, It worked
out for me, But he wouldn't have known that at
the time. When did you discover makeup? And how I
(07:12):
discovered makeup when I was a young kid, because I
used to watch my mom get ready to go out
at night. They would go out on Wednesday night and
Saturday night, and my mother was very glamorous, and she
was very, very skinny, and always wore really high heels,
and she would sit in the bathroom basically in her
underwear with her high heels on her jewelry cigarette hanging
off the counter, and I would watch her do this
(07:33):
glamorous makeup and I would just be in awe. I've
never been a glamour girl. I've never personally felt that
it was right for me, but I think it's because
I watched my mom master it. When did you start
wearing makeup? I started wearing makeup probably around middle school,
and I was allowed to wear a little bit to
school when you couldn't see it, but on the bus,
(07:54):
I remember putting blue mass gara and you know, purple
eyeliner in because that's what all the kids did. But
I really fell in love with makeup when I was
in Florida, because we would take our winter breaks in
Florida and coming home, I would literally go into the
airplane bathroom and put bronze all over my face because
it was always like a competition who had the best hand.
(08:14):
So I had the best hand because I knew how
to give myself the best hand. I was so into
tans in Chicago that in March, as soon as the
sun would kind of peek its head, I would take
a big giant box that had a refrigerator or something
in it, put tinfoil in it, put iodine and baby
oil all over my body, and just lay there and
we would all get tanned. No one said, that's probably
(08:35):
not a good idea. Were you talented and makeup at
that age? Where like kids going wow, how did you do? No? No,
I've never been talented to makeup. I just have honed
my craft. Not like some of my peers who are
incredibly painters. I'm not a painter. I'm just I make
sure it looks the way I wanted to look. Let's
jump to college. You tried out University of Wisconsin, osh, gosh,
(08:56):
not you. You tried University of Arizona in Tucson, not
for you. Then you discovered Emerson College in Boston, and
it clicked. Why when I found Emerson, I really found
my people. I was always under the impression that I
wasn't very smart. I would sit in school and be
completely bored out of my mind, even in high school.
Unless it was a teacher that taught with creativity, with
(09:18):
this visual vision, then I would get engaged and be
really into it. I'm a visual learner. I didn't know
that at the time. I thought that there was something
wrong with me and I wasn't smart, but when I
finally found Emerson, I found other people that were as
creative minded as I was and learned differently. Emerson College
let me study makeup. They didn't have a makeup program.
(09:40):
They had something called an interdisciplinary program. I got to
make up my own major. How did you find Emerson?
My mother sat me down and said, if today was
your birthday, you could do anything you want. And I
could have said go to Paris, buy new gene something,
but I said I wanted to go to Marshall Fields
and play with makeup. She says, well, why don't you
become a makeup artist, And I said, I don't want
to go to beauty school. The thought of being in
(10:02):
a beauty salon was not intriguing to me. And she said,
I'm sure there's a college somewhere. And my father's friend
told me about Emerson. You have been, I know this,
a lifelong supporter of Emerson. What did you get out
of Emerson? What did that put you on a path to?
What about you is Emerson? Honestly everything? Because they allowed
(10:22):
me to study makeup, they allowed me to create my
own major. I did the plays, I did theater. I
took classes on speech. I took classes on filmmaking, but
I would decide what film I wanted to do based
on what makeup I felt like doing. So I would
create the characters and then right afterwards and I realized,
I'm not like everybody else, I'm only like me, and
(10:43):
it's okay. So who were your early influences on beauty
makeup style? Well, when I graduated college, there was a
makeup artist named Bonnie Mallor. I read an article about
her in Mademoiselle magazine and she was the makeup artist
that worked with Bruce Weber, Patrick de Marcialer did all
the fashion shows from Ralph Lauren to Perry Ellis, and
she had a very natural style and she was freelance.
(11:06):
And I read the article. I'm like, that's what I
want to do, and so I called her up. She's
never called me back. I wrote her a letter. She
didn't answer me back. I moved to New York. I
called her again and I got her answering machine that said,
I'm probably traveling, but if you need anything, call my agent,
Brian Bantry. I called Brian Bantry. I went to see
him and he said, I can't represent you. Because you
(11:29):
have no experience. I'm like, all right, dude, how do
you get experience? He said, I'll start sending you on jobs.
So I got out the Yellow Pages and I looked
up models, modeling agencies, makeup. I went to the makeup Union.
I just started, of course there is yeah, and I
walked in there. I said, I'm here, I'm ready to
sign up. They're like, okay, well sit down, let me
(11:51):
tell you how it works. It takes about seven to
fifteen years to get in unless you know someone, and
then it will take about two to three years to
get in the union. Yes, but they said we can
help you though. Some of our artists who are in
the union need assistance. So they sent me to one girl.
Her name was Bobby. She was the makeup arts for
Serday Night Live, so I got to assist her. Eventually
I assisted Bonnie, but I ended up doing a lot
(12:13):
of work that she couldn't do, and one of them
was Bruce Weber, and that was a big break. I
eventually got hired to do magazine work, which is what
I wanted to do. Took me seven years, but I
got a Vogue cover. Used to a lesson in this
and everybody that's building their career wants to know how
do you get that big break? Just know that there
isn't necessarily a big break. There's a lot of little
(12:35):
things that lead up to it, and it's the simple rules.
Number one is you have to be open. Number two
is you have to keep going no matter what. You
just got to keep at it. And number three is
you gotta be nice to people. If you're not nice,
no one's gonna want to either help you or do
anything for you. And you just got to keep doing it.
What made you unique as a makeup artist in that
(12:55):
phase of your life, Well, I think what made me
unique was my style was different, and I was always
ready to go and if there was some other jobs
that needed to be done, like I needed to fan
the models or get them water. I was the kid
that did anything. I was so happy to be working.
I was a sponge. I wanted to learn a lot,
and I just kept trying things. And I think people
(13:17):
sense that I was just an eager beaver. Late eighties
early nineties, You began to make your own makeup. How
did that start? Well, not in my kitchen. People say
they started making in their kitchen. I did a shoot
for a magazine. I think it was Mademoiselle magazine. The
story was actually on me how a makeup artist shops
in New York City for off the Beaten Path makeup.
(13:38):
We went to Keels, nice guy behind the counter, he's
a chemist. I started talking to him about this lipstick
I can't find and he's like, oh, I could make
it for you. I said, really, and I told him
exactly what I wanted. He made it, sent it back
a couple of times, not right to dry the color.
And I said, all right, these are the ten colors
(13:58):
that I think all the you need really to get
any color out there. And he said, how about this,
I'll make the lipstick, you sell it, will sell it
for fifteen dollars, you get seven fifty. I'll get seven
Fifty's great idea. And he made them for me and
we started selling them out of my house. By the
time you debuted in Bergdorf Goodman in New York, by
(14:20):
figured something out. Well do you know how I figured
it out? I want to hear that. I was in
the elevator in my then apartment in New York and
there was a girl on the elevator and I said, hello,
and she said hello, and I said, my name is Bobby.
Her name was Sharon, and I said what do you do.
She said, I work at a lab, a cosmetics lab.
I said, really, do you have a card? And that
lab still makes the lipsticks today. That is true story
(14:44):
you debuted in Bergdorf Goodman. They estimated they would sell
a hundred lipsticks in the first month, and instead they
sold the hundred in the first day. Did that surprise you, Oh,
it was pretty cool. But at the time, I had
one baby, I was commuting back and forth from New
Jersey to New York. I was still working as a
makeup artist. My husband was in law school. You know,
(15:04):
money was tight. Everything was kind of a blur. You
had to scramble, obviously to get more. And berg Doorf
must have said, wait a minute, we got a hit here,
let's give it the shelf space. Right. Well, we were
originally on a table, and the only reason we were
on a table is because they didn't have any counter space.
People now think it was a brilliant marketing idea, and
it was in retrospect. And then they said, okay, we
(15:25):
need lip pencils, we need I pencils. So we slowly
started adding and it grew. Then Neiman Marcus called and said,
we'd love to take you in four stores, and then
Barney's called, and then Bendal's called. We didn't have a
salesperson to go sell it. That's pretty good on It
sells itself because it was different than what was on
the market and it was really hitting a nerve. And
(15:47):
I think the combination of having this product that actually
didn't really look like makeup that was out there just
made you look better. It didn't smell, it felt good.
It wasn't greasy, it wasn't dry. Women looked pretty. It
was a more natural look. It's what people wanted. And
at the same time, not because there was a strategy,
but I was the makeup artist doing makeup for the
(16:09):
fashion shows, so I got to talk about the trends.
I was also on the Today's Show. I got to
talk about it, and everything together look like brilliance. But
it was just really good luck. I'm sure you made
your luck. Let's go back. How did you get the introduction?
It's gonna sounds like I make this up, but I
was at a party, someone's fancy party in New York City,
and I said thank you, for inviting me. My name
(16:32):
is Bobby. I said, what do you do and she said,
I'm my cousina expire Berg doorf goodman, I'm not even kidding,
and actually give you some money to put on the
roulette table. And I think we do very well there.
So you've got to look at that moment and go, Okay,
something's happening here. What did you make of it? What
I remember about that moment is I was still a
working makeup artist. My husband was probably still in law school,
(16:55):
I had a second baby, I was still commuting. We
had business partners. We did not get along with them,
just two different visions or styles or both both and everything. Yeah,
it was really a tough time and it's probably the
reason we ended up selling the company. I'm the person
at night that starts thinking about my day and everything,
and I'm like really stressed, and my husband's the guy
(17:15):
that says, not now, we'll talk about it in the morning.
So I had to somehow go to bed and I
woke up in the morning every day and we would
talk about it. We knew it wasn't a forever situation,
but we were also young kids at the time. We
didn't know any better. You had this instant success almost
and on a spectrum of this must be a mistake.
I don't believe I'm worthy of this too. I'm a
(17:37):
freaking genius. Look at me. Where were you falling at that?
Neither neither of those. I was just the person that
would roll up my sleeves, having a notebook, writing in
a drawing in it, coming out with new ideas. That
was the next thing. I wrote a book, What you
were to write? My first book. It was after Dylan
was born, so it's got to be around nine two.
I didn't know a book agent. I don't know how
(17:58):
you write a book. Okay, so tell us this story.
It's a story. We were in Nantucket for a vacation.
I'm on the beach. My kids are playing with some
older girl, her mother. I introduced myself, what do you
do that? I'm a book agent. She was my first
book agent, and I did a book. Had the book.
It was on the New York Times bestsellers list. Just
hold on a second, because we've got so much more
(18:20):
to talk about. We'll be back after a quick break.
Welcome back to math and Magic. We're here with Bobby Brown.
So you had a really quick pay day, you launched
A ninety one by Frederick Fakai. Our friend introduced you
(18:43):
to Leonard Water, and you sold Esta Lauter in nine
and became the chief Creative Officer. I was actually the
CEO in the beginning because I got to pick my
title and I it sounded cool. I didn't notice CEO
was But after a few years they kindly asked me
not to be the CEO, and I said, okay. Was
the only reason you sold Unwind a partnership? Well, it
was a combination. When Leonard Lauder invited me over for
(19:05):
dinner and we have this talk dinner on top of
his building looking over Central Park. I don't know how
he got the Philharmonic to play, but you know it did,
and he somehow figured out the food. I like. It
was exactly a Bobby meal with the best wines you've
ever had. And he said to me, I know what
you want to do. You want to be a mom,
You want to be a wife and a creative person.
(19:28):
You don't want all this headache. We can grow you
and we promise you total autonomy. I didn't know what
autonomy was, but I said, okay, did you get it?
I did? I stayed twenty two years. What was his
pitch other than I know you want to do this.
How did he get you so excited about Estay lauder Well?
He said to me, you remind me of my mother.
You are so what the brand is, and I know
(19:50):
women really live on every word. What you've done is
so different. And I believed him. I think he was
the best thing that ever happened to me, and certainly
that company an amazing guy. Is how did your life
change working inside a major company and how did people
begin to treat you once you weren't Bobby Brown but
you were at State Water Well, it was like being
(20:10):
in grad school, sitting in these big corporate meetings with
these guys in suits and ties. Me sitting there with
some uncomfortable little suit because I thought that mostly guys
that are mostly guys, even not doing Yeah, the top
tiers were mostly guys. There were women there. They were
kind of the lifers they've been there forever. I would
(20:31):
try to dress up in this way that I fit in.
I was channeling Melanie Griffith and working girl. I used
to have to leave my house in the morning with
a bag of clothes, one outfit for dropping my kids off,
one for going to the corporate office, one going down
to do a shoot, and god forbid I had a
party to go to. I would just have different outfits,
and finally one day I said this is really stupid,
(20:53):
and I chose one outfit. And the only thing I
would ever bring with me is a high pair of shoes.
If I had a party, I even wore blue jeans
to the White House every time my one. I didn't care.
So if you could reach back in time, give yourself
some great advice just as you were ready to sell
the company. What would that advice be? Just do exactly
what you did, you would I wouldn't change anything. Maybe
I wouldn't have made sure that there was a twenty
(21:13):
five year noncompete. But it's almost over. Wo never heard
of one of those we must not pay on your name,
They on my name, and they can have that name
after the sale. You, as we were talking about, became
an even bigger personality and expanded your scope. But you've
sort of done everything. As you mentioned, you are a
regular contributor on the Today Show. You know how I
got that? Tell us the story because it's a religious story.
(21:33):
I was promoting my first book at Name and Marcus.
I did my thing and afterwards any questions. There was
as cute as little lady in the back of the room,
and I went over to her and she said, yeah,
how do I keep my lipstick out of the lines?
And I told her and she said, I've seen you
on the Today's show. I had been on once. I said, oh,
thank you, and she said, you've done so much. What
would you like to do? I said, I'd like to
be a regular. She said, honey, Jeff Zucker is my grandson.
(21:57):
She called Jeff, and I got on the show on Monday.
So that's the way to get in. Find the grandmother.
Find the grandmother. That's the lesson in this. You been
a regular contributor on the Elvis Rand Show and see
all the stations he's on, as well as the Rart
Radio app. You were a contributing editor several magazines. You
were actually the editor in chief of Yahoo Beauty. You
and your husband even have a hotel. Now, yes, what
(22:20):
did you become? This sounds like another phase of Bobby Brown. Well, honestly,
I learned early on that it's not what I know
that excites me, it's what I don't know. The projects
I get excited about, especially if I've never done them before.
I didn't know anything about being an editor in chief
when I did Yahoo Beauty, I didn't know anything, but
I'm like, Okay, how would I like to do this.
(22:42):
It's kind of the same thing with the podcast and
the same thing with the hotel. Never done a hotel before,
but I stayed in enough of them. So what turned
you on was it was new, it was different, you
were learning something, cultivating it, and creative. It's got to
be visual, it's got to be creative. I don't like
working alone. I like working with the team of people,
and I like having people that are good at all
these things that I'm not good at. That excites me.
(23:02):
So talk a little bit about how does the work
life balance work. I've somehow learned over time what is
more important and what isn't. But you know, when I
was a younger working coming up, I was torn. I
would get a call to do Nicole Kidman's makeup and
Saurday Night Live, but I had a surprise party for
my friend Gino Goldberg. Two weeks I agonized about what
(23:25):
to do, what to do, what to do, and I
finally made a decision. I went to the birthday party
and I don't regret it. So you've had a lucky life,
although you've worked hard for that luck. Talk a little
bit about how you get back you've done some amazing things,
and how you figure out what you're going to We're
very big on local. We do a lot of local
(23:46):
things that make a difference. We have an organization called
Reaching Out Montclair, which helps the underserved. We also just
brought a family from the Bahamas that lost their house
in the Hurricane sixteen. People showed up at my house
and stayed with us for a couple of weeks until
we got them a house. And they're here on tourist
visas and they will be here as long as they
(24:07):
can because they have nothing to go back to. I
went to see them last night in the house, and
these are the happiest, most amazing people, and there's nothing
that fills me up more than seeing people joyous and happy. Montclair.
While we're on the subject so long, he's telling me
that's now the new artist town, that the artists are
moving to Montclair. Well, Montclair is kind of like the
Brooklyn of New Jersey. It really is. It's the coolest
(24:28):
town and the reason it's it's twelve miles out of
New York. It's easy and it's a complete melting pot.
Anything goes there in your hotels there. My hotel is there,
and we also have a film and TV studio. We
have a soccer bubble. My office is right between it.
The Food Network shoots across the street from me. We
have Stephen Colbert Patrick Wilson, who is Aquaman. I saw
(24:50):
him this morning at the Chiropractor. It's a really fun town.
So you're back in the thick of business again. You
left in two thousand and sixteen. It was doing over
a million dollars in revenue. Your company aspirations for that again?
Never so whatever. Tell us a little bit about the
new businesses. Well, when I left the brand, I literally
had no clue what I was going to do. The
(25:11):
first thing I did is I called two friends, two
of my besties. One is Mickey Drexler. He was amazing
emotional support. The other was Richard Baker, who happened to
own Lord and Taylor and Sex. Richard said, awesome, I
got a project for you and gave me a Just
Bobby concept shop in Lord and Taylor. It was successful enough.
Didn't save Lord and Taylor, but it was successful enough.
(25:32):
And then I brought it in house digital. I opened
up Just Bobby dot com digital magazine, started doing speeches
and just seeing people. Opened an office, hired an assistant
out of the Apple Store because I needed someone to
help me with my iPhones. Office in Montclair or New York. Montclair.
I will never have an office in New York again. Sorry.
(25:53):
I literally walked to work. My dog comes with me,
people's babies come with them. We have a manicurist every
other week. It's just so different. Then I got this
opportunity to create a wellness brand. The wellness brand is
growing the fastest thing right now. We're in a lot
of retail, we're digital, We're going to the UK opening boots.
I'm also launching a podcast, as we said, with my Heart,
(26:15):
which I'm really excited beyond the beauty, pretty excited about that.
We're very excited about folks have worked with you. Honestly,
all that stuff means a lot. I just launched a
master class, which was the first ever makeup I had
to get models and I got to teach my philosophy,
which is health and wellness and entrepreneurship and not contouring,
(26:40):
So talk about Beyond the Beauty. The podcast Beyond the
Beauty is basically I talked to everyone from my husband,
my kids, my Aunt Alice, to hair restoration people, to
fitness people to entrepreneurs things that I want to learn,
because beauty isn't just makeup, it's really what is beauty.
Beauty is what like to look at, what you like
(27:01):
to feel like. I'm a very curious person trying to
better myself. I like to share with people the things
that I want to know. And guess what, it's not
that complicated. Are you doing one a week? One a week? Yeah?
Tell me about podcasting. When you first get interested in podcasting,
when did it pop on your radar screen? Well, I
had no clue what podcasting was. I met Gary Vannerchuk,
(27:22):
so I was on his show a couple of times.
He invited me to come back, and then one day
he started a podcast division. He wanted to do a podcast.
I said, okay, I don't have an agent. By the way,
I don't sound like I've never had an agent. So
I did it for about a year and a half
and that was called long Story Short. I would just
come in and I have all these interesting people, people
I didn't know, people I would bring in and just
(27:43):
start talking and ask them like, who are you? This
podcast is really for marketers and entrepreneurs. What a marketers
not understand about beauty and health? People that are beauty
people don't understand that beauty is more than just makeup.
There are other things that are beauty, and women are
more interested in lifestyle than just beauty. So it's not
(28:04):
about this perfect thing in your face. It's about how
everything goes together. So when you look at models, and
you look at magazines, or you look at online or
social how are they getting wrong and how they're representing
things to women in America. Not everyone is doing it wrong,
but I think that there's a big opportunity because for years,
(28:24):
cosmetics companies and beauty companies will be telling people what's
wrong with them. You need this cream because your skin
is bad. You need this foundation because you're the wrong color.
You need this because you have to change in the
shape of your nose. That's not true. Yes, you want
to look good, but if you don't feel good, you're
not gonna look good. And it's not about weight or diet.
It's just about feeling good thinking about this moment in
(28:46):
time and beauty and fashion. How would you describe where
we are right now? We're at a very interesting time
because there's a combination of the YouTube makeup tutorials and
people becoming brands because of this platform them in makeup
that supports it. We also have the big brands that
are trying to figure out what's going on. We have
the digital brands that are some are doing brilliant jobs.
(29:09):
There's so many of them. And there's also the new
clean movement. So I find it a really exciting time.
But I see a really big white space talk about
ingredients and the products. It's changed a lot. It has
changed a lot, and hopefully it will change permanently because
there are a lot of ingredients that when I was
making cosmetics, I had no clue they weren't good for you.
(29:32):
Everything gets absorbed through the skin, So I only use organic,
clean things to clean my house. I make sure that
what I eat is as clean as possible. I know
not everyone listening could afford organic food, but if I
have a choice, I don't want chemicals. There's no reason
to do that. The best quality food that you can
put in your body is going to make you look better.
(29:54):
The clean beauty space is going to keep growing, and
I think eventually no one's gonna have a choice. Every
company is going to have to have clean products. So
you've been a big success by almost every measure of success, family, financial, work, fame, etcetera.
I know there are a lot of folks listening who
are building their careers today. What advice would you give them?
(30:16):
I mean, I would first of all say there is
no rush. I help a lot of young entrepreneurs that
I'm friends with, and they always seem like it has
to be done now. Oh my god, has we done?
Oh my god? Series A, Series B, I don't even
know what. Like, guys, calm down. You've got to build
a brand. People think that the whole idea of building
a brand is to sell it and make a lot
of money. No, build a brand that you love. It
takes time. It's like a baby. You've got to nurture it.
(30:38):
So I would tell people to relax and chill and
not be afraid to change if something they're doing isn't working. Change.
So as we wrap up, we end each episode with
a shout out to those special people on the creative side.
And on the analytical side of marketing and business, who
is your choice for that math person, that analytical brain
that you've encountered or know about. I mean, right now,
(31:01):
I'm going to say David Nass, who was my CFO,
just because he was the one that understood and he
knew exactly how to explain it to me and teach me.
So on the creative side, who's the magician? I would
say a photographer named Henry let Wilder. And I've been
looking for my creative marketing partner for a hundred years. Bobby,
you have an amazing life story, lots of valuable lessons.
(31:24):
Thanks for sharing, thanks for asking me. Nice to see you.
Here are a few things I've picked up in my
conversation with Bobby. One, there's no such thing as a
big break. As Bobby says, it's a lot of little
breaks that eventually add up to a big success. To
get excited about what you don't know, whether it's becoming
a magazine editor or hosting a podcast. Bobby is always
(31:47):
eager to step outside her comfort zone and try new things.
Three talk to everyone you can. Some of Bobby's most
important relationships from her makeup manufacturer to her distributor to
her book agent. All started with a simple conversation with
a stranger. Bobby has our own podcast, Beyond the Beauty
(32:08):
with Bobby Brown. Be sure to give it a listen.
That's it for today's episode. Thanks so much for listening
to Math and Magic, a production of I Heart Radio.
This show is hosted by Bob Pittman. Special thanks to
Sue Schillinger for booking and wrangling our wonderful talent, which
just no small feat. Nikkiatore for pulling research bill plaques
(32:28):
and Michael Asar for their recording help, our editor, Ryan Murdoch,
and of course Gayle Raoul, Eric Angel, Noel Mango and
everyone who helped bring this show to your ears. Until
next time,
You're listening to Math and Magic production I Heart Radio.
For years, cosmetics companies and beauty companies will be telling
people what's wrong with them. You need this cream because
your skin is bad. You need this foundation because you're
the wrong color. You need this because you have to
change the shape of your nose. That's not true. Yes,
(00:21):
you want to look good, but if you don't feel good,
you're not gonna look good. And it's not about weight
or diet, It's just about feeling good. Hi, I'm Bob Pittman.
Welcome to Math and Magic Stories from the Frontiers and Marketing,
(00:42):
where we examine that special mix of art and science
that's behind the great marketing and business successes. On this episode,
we have someone with strong creative and business skills, an
unmatched charm and determination, and the successes and brands to
prove it. Bobby Brown. Bobby is sometimes described as a
(01:06):
makeup artist, but that is like calling Steve Jobs a
computer salesperson. She created a billion dollar cosmetics business that
carries her name. She's written nine books about beauty and makeup.
She has been a contributing editor from magazines and online.
She's a regular part of our own I Heart Radio's
Elvis Durand's Morning show. She has danced on stage with Florida.
She was a regular on The Today Show, and she
(01:28):
is currently doing even more businesses. And with all that,
she managed to find some life work balance with her
family and she's a lot of fun. Bobby welcome, Thanks
so much. That's so sweet. We're gonna dig into a
bunch of the stories, but first I want to dig
into you in sixty seconds. So this first thing that
comes in your head, Tequila, I love that you asked
(01:48):
me the first thing that came in my head. Do
you prefer sunrise and sunset? Sunrise Montclair, New Jersey or
who Will met? Illinois? Montclair, New Jersey, Chicago, New York,
New York Instagram or Twitter Instagram snapper TikTok neither coffee
or tea, espresso, Beetles or Stones, Stones chocolate or vanilla chocolate,
(02:09):
still or sparkling Still? Are you ready? It's about to
get harder? Favorite hip hop artist, flow Right, smartest person
you know, my husband, childhood hero and d Alice first
job selling shoes at Carson Perry Scott. Favorite movie, love story,
worst de beauty trend, so many contouring one superpower you'd
like to have to be a better dancer. Favorite cocktail
(02:32):
tequila or vodka, Last vacation, Bahamas, secret talent. I think
I'm funny. Title of your memoir, what would it be?
It'll be all pictures, no words. Who would play you
in a movie? Jennifer Anderson proudest accomplishment, my three children
And what's something you can't live without? My family? Okay,
let's go. You get credit for introducing natural looking makeup
(02:53):
at the dawn of the nineteen nineties. What was going
on at that time and what were you rebelling against
a makeup at that time? Right before the whole scene
in New York was a lot of parties, a lot
of going out to the clubs. Women were doing makeup
like multi colored eyes and overlined lips and all this
crazy stuff. And when I came to New York, I
(03:15):
got a job to do a cover of Cosmopolitan at
Jerry Hall. I tried everything in my power to do
her makeup grade and she was so kind and she said,
beautiful job, but can I have the mirror. I gave
her the mirror and she said, can I just make
a few touches? She redid her whole face, and I
learned watching I didn't feel bad, I really learned, but
(03:35):
I realized I can't do that kind of makeup. So
I started doing it my way and it kind of
slowly caught on. So what was your inspiration for your way?
Because this was not the way now? It was definitely
not the way. When I was in middle school, I
wanted to be pretty and I didn't think I was,
and I would use my mom's makeup to make me
look tan and pretty. I don't want anyone to know
(03:56):
is wearing makeup. And then when I became a makeup artist,
I started doing that two models. People told me I'd
never worked. If you want to work, you have to
learn to do the other thing. But I just couldn't
do it, and so I started doing it my way,
and it's slowly slowly took on. What big names adopted
your style that sort of gave you cred and sort
(04:17):
of pushed you over that tipping point for you. I
did a cover of Rolling Stone with Annie Leebowitz, and
I made the guys look good, and Keith Richard's manager
came over to me and said, oh my god, can
we book you again? And so I got a couple
of times got hired to do it because I always
made people look healthy. Stones that's pretty good. That was
pretty good. That's pretty good. So I want to dig
(04:39):
into this a lot more, But first I want to
go back to your roots. You were born in the
late fifties in Chicago. You grew up in the suburbs
will matt home of the famous New Trier High School.
Can you paint the picture of those times. I'm the
oldest of three kids. I was born to my family
when my mother was twenty and my dad one very
good looking couple. My dad and a tourney and my
(05:01):
mama homemaker. By the time they were had three kids,
were living in the suburbs, pretty normal, but my parents
were very young. So I would come home and they'd
be in our TV room with all their friends going
to a concerts, and like, guys, I smell that. What
is that? So I kind of grew up around a
lot of you know, things that were happening at the time.
(05:23):
I understand you had a very special bond with a
very entrepreneurial grandfather. Yes, Papa Sam. What impact did he
have on your business, because evidently he was a hell
of an entrepreneur and a great business mine. Well, it's funny.
I really learned a lot watching Papa Sam. I just
saw how much he cared about the people that bought
his cars, the people that worked for him. He was
constantly marketing his own business. He was putting his photos
(05:45):
and envelopes with kids, would sit with them and mail
the things out, and told great stories. He knew al
Capone and Whitey and all these guys. They all bought
cars from him, and he was just larger than life
for a teeny little funny man. All of five too,
by the way. So what was the best Alcohoone story?
Not the best Alcophone store. But my favorite Papa story
(06:06):
was one day this man came into the car dealership,
looked like he'd been sleeping on the street at two
garbage bags, and no one would wait on him, not
one person in his office. So he went over and
he said, hey, doc, what can I do for you?
And the guy said, I want to buy a car.
He said, all right, I'll show you some cars. The
bags were full of cash. He bought two cars cash.
And so Papa always taught me that you cannot judge
(06:27):
by what someone looks like. How about your dad a
lawyer and my dad he was a business person, big influence.
My dad was a lawyer till he was seventy. He
retired and is now a children's book author. He's a
very cool young eighty four year old. He's had quite
a life. But my dad used to come home from
his law job and sit down with me and do
creative things, drawing and photography and art, and he talked
(06:50):
about things that father's you wouldn't think they would talk about.
He taught me about dating, He taught me about men.
He really wanted me to go away to school and
study something super interesting in Spain or somewhere, and I
ended up studying makeup in college. It worked, It worked
out for me, But he wouldn't have known that at
the time. When did you discover makeup? And how I
(07:12):
discovered makeup when I was a young kid, because I
used to watch my mom get ready to go out
at night. They would go out on Wednesday night and
Saturday night, and my mother was very glamorous, and she
was very, very skinny, and always wore really high heels,
and she would sit in the bathroom basically in her
underwear with her high heels on her jewelry cigarette hanging
off the counter, and I would watch her do this
(07:33):
glamorous makeup and I would just be in awe. I've
never been a glamour girl. I've never personally felt that
it was right for me, but I think it's because
I watched my mom master it. When did you start
wearing makeup? I started wearing makeup probably around middle school,
and I was allowed to wear a little bit to
school when you couldn't see it, but on the bus,
(07:54):
I remember putting blue mass gara and you know, purple
eyeliner in because that's what all the kids did. But
I really fell in love with makeup when I was
in Florida, because we would take our winter breaks in
Florida and coming home, I would literally go into the
airplane bathroom and put bronze all over my face because
it was always like a competition who had the best hand.
(08:14):
So I had the best hand because I knew how
to give myself the best hand. I was so into
tans in Chicago that in March, as soon as the
sun would kind of peek its head, I would take
a big giant box that had a refrigerator or something
in it, put tinfoil in it, put iodine and baby
oil all over my body, and just lay there and
we would all get tanned. No one said, that's probably
(08:35):
not a good idea. Were you talented and makeup at
that age? Where like kids going wow, how did you do? No? No,
I've never been talented to makeup. I just have honed
my craft. Not like some of my peers who are
incredibly painters. I'm not a painter. I'm just I make
sure it looks the way I wanted to look. Let's
jump to college. You tried out University of Wisconsin, osh, gosh,
(08:56):
not you. You tried University of Arizona in Tucson, not
for you. Then you discovered Emerson College in Boston, and
it clicked. Why when I found Emerson, I really found
my people. I was always under the impression that I
wasn't very smart. I would sit in school and be
completely bored out of my mind, even in high school.
Unless it was a teacher that taught with creativity, with
(09:18):
this visual vision, then I would get engaged and be
really into it. I'm a visual learner. I didn't know
that at the time. I thought that there was something
wrong with me and I wasn't smart, but when I
finally found Emerson, I found other people that were as
creative minded as I was and learned differently. Emerson College
let me study makeup. They didn't have a makeup program.
(09:40):
They had something called an interdisciplinary program. I got to
make up my own major. How did you find Emerson?
My mother sat me down and said, if today was
your birthday, you could do anything you want. And I
could have said go to Paris, buy new gene something,
but I said I wanted to go to Marshall Fields
and play with makeup. She says, well, why don't you
become a makeup artist, And I said, I don't want
to go to beauty school. The thought of being in
(10:02):
a beauty salon was not intriguing to me. And she said,
I'm sure there's a college somewhere. And my father's friend
told me about Emerson. You have been, I know this,
a lifelong supporter of Emerson. What did you get out
of Emerson? What did that put you on a path to?
What about you is Emerson? Honestly everything? Because they allowed
(10:22):
me to study makeup, they allowed me to create my
own major. I did the plays, I did theater. I
took classes on speech. I took classes on filmmaking, but
I would decide what film I wanted to do based
on what makeup I felt like doing. So I would
create the characters and then right afterwards and I realized,
I'm not like everybody else, I'm only like me, and
(10:43):
it's okay. So who were your early influences on beauty
makeup style? Well, when I graduated college, there was a
makeup artist named Bonnie Mallor. I read an article about
her in Mademoiselle magazine and she was the makeup artist
that worked with Bruce Weber, Patrick de Marcialer did all
the fashion shows from Ralph Lauren to Perry Ellis, and
she had a very natural style and she was freelance.
(11:06):
And I read the article. I'm like, that's what I
want to do, and so I called her up. She's
never called me back. I wrote her a letter. She
didn't answer me back. I moved to New York. I
called her again and I got her answering machine that said,
I'm probably traveling, but if you need anything, call my agent,
Brian Bantry. I called Brian Bantry. I went to see
him and he said, I can't represent you. Because you
(11:29):
have no experience. I'm like, all right, dude, how do
you get experience? He said, I'll start sending you on jobs.
So I got out the Yellow Pages and I looked
up models, modeling agencies, makeup. I went to the makeup Union.
I just started, of course there is yeah, and I
walked in there. I said, I'm here, I'm ready to
sign up. They're like, okay, well sit down, let me
(11:51):
tell you how it works. It takes about seven to
fifteen years to get in unless you know someone, and
then it will take about two to three years to
get in the union. Yes, but they said we can
help you though. Some of our artists who are in
the union need assistance. So they sent me to one girl.
Her name was Bobby. She was the makeup arts for
Serday Night Live, so I got to assist her. Eventually
I assisted Bonnie, but I ended up doing a lot
(12:13):
of work that she couldn't do, and one of them
was Bruce Weber, and that was a big break. I
eventually got hired to do magazine work, which is what
I wanted to do. Took me seven years, but I
got a Vogue cover. Used to a lesson in this
and everybody that's building their career wants to know how
do you get that big break? Just know that there
isn't necessarily a big break. There's a lot of little
(12:35):
things that lead up to it, and it's the simple rules.
Number one is you have to be open. Number two
is you have to keep going no matter what. You
just got to keep at it. And number three is
you gotta be nice to people. If you're not nice,
no one's gonna want to either help you or do
anything for you. And you just got to keep doing it.
What made you unique as a makeup artist in that
(12:55):
phase of your life, Well, I think what made me
unique was my style was different, and I was always
ready to go and if there was some other jobs
that needed to be done, like I needed to fan
the models or get them water. I was the kid
that did anything. I was so happy to be working.
I was a sponge. I wanted to learn a lot,
and I just kept trying things. And I think people
(13:17):
sense that I was just an eager beaver. Late eighties
early nineties, You began to make your own makeup. How
did that start? Well, not in my kitchen. People say
they started making in their kitchen. I did a shoot
for a magazine. I think it was Mademoiselle magazine. The
story was actually on me how a makeup artist shops
in New York City for off the Beaten Path makeup.
(13:38):
We went to Keels, nice guy behind the counter, he's
a chemist. I started talking to him about this lipstick
I can't find and he's like, oh, I could make
it for you. I said, really, and I told him
exactly what I wanted. He made it, sent it back
a couple of times, not right to dry the color.
And I said, all right, these are the ten colors
(13:58):
that I think all the you need really to get
any color out there. And he said, how about this,
I'll make the lipstick, you sell it, will sell it
for fifteen dollars, you get seven fifty. I'll get seven
Fifty's great idea. And he made them for me and
we started selling them out of my house. By the
time you debuted in Bergdorf Goodman in New York, by
(14:20):
figured something out. Well do you know how I figured
it out? I want to hear that. I was in
the elevator in my then apartment in New York and
there was a girl on the elevator and I said, hello,
and she said hello, and I said, my name is Bobby.
Her name was Sharon, and I said what do you do.
She said, I work at a lab, a cosmetics lab.
I said, really, do you have a card? And that
lab still makes the lipsticks today. That is true story
(14:44):
you debuted in Bergdorf Goodman. They estimated they would sell
a hundred lipsticks in the first month, and instead they
sold the hundred in the first day. Did that surprise you, Oh,
it was pretty cool. But at the time, I had
one baby, I was commuting back and forth from New
Jersey to New York. I was still working as a
makeup artist. My husband was in law school. You know,
(15:04):
money was tight. Everything was kind of a blur. You
had to scramble, obviously to get more. And berg Doorf
must have said, wait a minute, we got a hit here,
let's give it the shelf space. Right. Well, we were
originally on a table, and the only reason we were
on a table is because they didn't have any counter space.
People now think it was a brilliant marketing idea, and
it was in retrospect. And then they said, okay, we
(15:25):
need lip pencils, we need I pencils. So we slowly
started adding and it grew. Then Neiman Marcus called and said,
we'd love to take you in four stores, and then
Barney's called, and then Bendal's called. We didn't have a
salesperson to go sell it. That's pretty good on It
sells itself because it was different than what was on
the market and it was really hitting a nerve. And
(15:47):
I think the combination of having this product that actually
didn't really look like makeup that was out there just
made you look better. It didn't smell, it felt good.
It wasn't greasy, it wasn't dry. Women looked pretty. It
was a more natural look. It's what people wanted. And
at the same time, not because there was a strategy,
but I was the makeup artist doing makeup for the
(16:09):
fashion shows, so I got to talk about the trends.
I was also on the Today's Show. I got to
talk about it, and everything together look like brilliance. But
it was just really good luck. I'm sure you made
your luck. Let's go back. How did you get the introduction?
It's gonna sounds like I make this up, but I
was at a party, someone's fancy party in New York City,
and I said thank you, for inviting me. My name
(16:32):
is Bobby. I said, what do you do and she said,
I'm my cousina expire Berg doorf goodman, I'm not even kidding,
and actually give you some money to put on the
roulette table. And I think we do very well there.
So you've got to look at that moment and go, Okay,
something's happening here. What did you make of it? What
I remember about that moment is I was still a
working makeup artist. My husband was probably still in law school,
(16:55):
I had a second baby, I was still commuting. We
had business partners. We did not get along with them,
just two different visions or styles or both both and everything. Yeah,
it was really a tough time and it's probably the
reason we ended up selling the company. I'm the person
at night that starts thinking about my day and everything,
and I'm like really stressed, and my husband's the guy
(17:15):
that says, not now, we'll talk about it in the morning.
So I had to somehow go to bed and I
woke up in the morning every day and we would
talk about it. We knew it wasn't a forever situation,
but we were also young kids at the time. We
didn't know any better. You had this instant success almost
and on a spectrum of this must be a mistake.
I don't believe I'm worthy of this too. I'm a
(17:37):
freaking genius. Look at me. Where were you falling at that?
Neither neither of those. I was just the person that
would roll up my sleeves, having a notebook, writing in
a drawing in it, coming out with new ideas. That
was the next thing. I wrote a book, What you
were to write? My first book. It was after Dylan
was born, so it's got to be around nine two.
I didn't know a book agent. I don't know how
(17:58):
you write a book. Okay, so tell us this story.
It's a story. We were in Nantucket for a vacation.
I'm on the beach. My kids are playing with some
older girl, her mother. I introduced myself, what do you
do that? I'm a book agent. She was my first
book agent, and I did a book. Had the book.
It was on the New York Times bestsellers list. Just
hold on a second, because we've got so much more
(18:20):
to talk about. We'll be back after a quick break.
Welcome back to math and Magic. We're here with Bobby Brown.
So you had a really quick pay day, you launched
A ninety one by Frederick Fakai. Our friend introduced you
(18:43):
to Leonard Water, and you sold Esta Lauter in nine
and became the chief Creative Officer. I was actually the
CEO in the beginning because I got to pick my
title and I it sounded cool. I didn't notice CEO
was But after a few years they kindly asked me
not to be the CEO, and I said, okay. Was
the only reason you sold Unwind a partnership? Well, it
was a combination. When Leonard Lauder invited me over for
(19:05):
dinner and we have this talk dinner on top of
his building looking over Central Park. I don't know how
he got the Philharmonic to play, but you know it did,
and he somehow figured out the food. I like. It
was exactly a Bobby meal with the best wines you've
ever had. And he said to me, I know what
you want to do. You want to be a mom,
You want to be a wife and a creative person.
(19:28):
You don't want all this headache. We can grow you
and we promise you total autonomy. I didn't know what
autonomy was, but I said, okay, did you get it?
I did? I stayed twenty two years. What was his
pitch other than I know you want to do this.
How did he get you so excited about Estay lauder Well?
He said to me, you remind me of my mother.
You are so what the brand is, and I know
(19:50):
women really live on every word. What you've done is
so different. And I believed him. I think he was
the best thing that ever happened to me, and certainly
that company an amazing guy. Is how did your life
change working inside a major company and how did people
begin to treat you once you weren't Bobby Brown but
you were at State Water Well, it was like being
(20:10):
in grad school, sitting in these big corporate meetings with
these guys in suits and ties. Me sitting there with
some uncomfortable little suit because I thought that mostly guys
that are mostly guys, even not doing Yeah, the top
tiers were mostly guys. There were women there. They were
kind of the lifers they've been there forever. I would
(20:31):
try to dress up in this way that I fit in.
I was channeling Melanie Griffith and working girl. I used
to have to leave my house in the morning with
a bag of clothes, one outfit for dropping my kids off,
one for going to the corporate office, one going down
to do a shoot, and god forbid I had a
party to go to. I would just have different outfits,
and finally one day I said this is really stupid,
(20:53):
and I chose one outfit. And the only thing I
would ever bring with me is a high pair of shoes.
If I had a party, I even wore blue jeans
to the White House every time my one. I didn't care.
So if you could reach back in time, give yourself
some great advice just as you were ready to sell
the company. What would that advice be? Just do exactly
what you did, you would I wouldn't change anything. Maybe
I wouldn't have made sure that there was a twenty
(21:13):
five year noncompete. But it's almost over. Wo never heard
of one of those we must not pay on your name,
They on my name, and they can have that name
after the sale. You, as we were talking about, became
an even bigger personality and expanded your scope. But you've
sort of done everything. As you mentioned, you are a
regular contributor on the Today Show. You know how I
got that? Tell us the story because it's a religious story.
(21:33):
I was promoting my first book at Name and Marcus.
I did my thing and afterwards any questions. There was
as cute as little lady in the back of the room,
and I went over to her and she said, yeah,
how do I keep my lipstick out of the lines?
And I told her and she said, I've seen you
on the Today's show. I had been on once. I said, oh,
thank you, and she said, you've done so much. What
would you like to do? I said, I'd like to
be a regular. She said, honey, Jeff Zucker is my grandson.
(21:57):
She called Jeff, and I got on the show on Monday.
So that's the way to get in. Find the grandmother.
Find the grandmother. That's the lesson in this. You been
a regular contributor on the Elvis Rand Show and see
all the stations he's on, as well as the Rart
Radio app. You were a contributing editor several magazines. You
were actually the editor in chief of Yahoo Beauty. You
and your husband even have a hotel. Now, yes, what
(22:20):
did you become? This sounds like another phase of Bobby Brown. Well, honestly,
I learned early on that it's not what I know
that excites me, it's what I don't know. The projects
I get excited about, especially if I've never done them before.
I didn't know anything about being an editor in chief
when I did Yahoo Beauty, I didn't know anything, but
I'm like, Okay, how would I like to do this.
(22:42):
It's kind of the same thing with the podcast and
the same thing with the hotel. Never done a hotel before,
but I stayed in enough of them. So what turned
you on was it was new, it was different, you
were learning something, cultivating it, and creative. It's got to
be visual, it's got to be creative. I don't like
working alone. I like working with the team of people,
and I like having people that are good at all
these things that I'm not good at. That excites me.
(23:02):
So talk a little bit about how does the work
life balance work. I've somehow learned over time what is
more important and what isn't. But you know, when I
was a younger working coming up, I was torn. I
would get a call to do Nicole Kidman's makeup and
Saurday Night Live, but I had a surprise party for
my friend Gino Goldberg. Two weeks I agonized about what
(23:25):
to do, what to do, what to do, and I
finally made a decision. I went to the birthday party
and I don't regret it. So you've had a lucky life,
although you've worked hard for that luck. Talk a little
bit about how you get back you've done some amazing things,
and how you figure out what you're going to We're
very big on local. We do a lot of local
(23:46):
things that make a difference. We have an organization called
Reaching Out Montclair, which helps the underserved. We also just
brought a family from the Bahamas that lost their house
in the Hurricane sixteen. People showed up at my house
and stayed with us for a couple of weeks until
we got them a house. And they're here on tourist
visas and they will be here as long as they
(24:07):
can because they have nothing to go back to. I
went to see them last night in the house, and
these are the happiest, most amazing people, and there's nothing
that fills me up more than seeing people joyous and happy. Montclair.
While we're on the subject so long, he's telling me
that's now the new artist town, that the artists are
moving to Montclair. Well, Montclair is kind of like the
Brooklyn of New Jersey. It really is. It's the coolest
(24:28):
town and the reason it's it's twelve miles out of
New York. It's easy and it's a complete melting pot.
Anything goes there in your hotels there. My hotel is there,
and we also have a film and TV studio. We
have a soccer bubble. My office is right between it.
The Food Network shoots across the street from me. We
have Stephen Colbert Patrick Wilson, who is Aquaman. I saw
(24:50):
him this morning at the Chiropractor. It's a really fun town.
So you're back in the thick of business again. You
left in two thousand and sixteen. It was doing over
a million dollars in revenue. Your company aspirations for that again?
Never so whatever. Tell us a little bit about the
new businesses. Well, when I left the brand, I literally
had no clue what I was going to do. The
(25:11):
first thing I did is I called two friends, two
of my besties. One is Mickey Drexler. He was amazing
emotional support. The other was Richard Baker, who happened to
own Lord and Taylor and Sex. Richard said, awesome, I
got a project for you and gave me a Just
Bobby concept shop in Lord and Taylor. It was successful enough.
Didn't save Lord and Taylor, but it was successful enough.
(25:32):
And then I brought it in house digital. I opened
up Just Bobby dot com digital magazine, started doing speeches
and just seeing people. Opened an office, hired an assistant
out of the Apple Store because I needed someone to
help me with my iPhones. Office in Montclair or New York. Montclair.
I will never have an office in New York again. Sorry.
(25:53):
I literally walked to work. My dog comes with me,
people's babies come with them. We have a manicurist every
other week. It's just so different. Then I got this
opportunity to create a wellness brand. The wellness brand is
growing the fastest thing right now. We're in a lot
of retail, we're digital, We're going to the UK opening boots.
I'm also launching a podcast, as we said, with my Heart,
(26:15):
which I'm really excited beyond the beauty, pretty excited about that.
We're very excited about folks have worked with you. Honestly,
all that stuff means a lot. I just launched a
master class, which was the first ever makeup I had
to get models and I got to teach my philosophy,
which is health and wellness and entrepreneurship and not contouring,
(26:40):
So talk about Beyond the Beauty. The podcast Beyond the
Beauty is basically I talked to everyone from my husband,
my kids, my Aunt Alice, to hair restoration people, to
fitness people to entrepreneurs things that I want to learn,
because beauty isn't just makeup, it's really what is beauty.
Beauty is what like to look at, what you like
(27:01):
to feel like. I'm a very curious person trying to
better myself. I like to share with people the things
that I want to know. And guess what, it's not
that complicated. Are you doing one a week? One a week? Yeah?
Tell me about podcasting. When you first get interested in podcasting,
when did it pop on your radar screen? Well, I
had no clue what podcasting was. I met Gary Vannerchuk,
(27:22):
so I was on his show a couple of times.
He invited me to come back, and then one day
he started a podcast division. He wanted to do a podcast.
I said, okay, I don't have an agent. By the way,
I don't sound like I've never had an agent. So
I did it for about a year and a half
and that was called long Story Short. I would just
come in and I have all these interesting people, people
I didn't know, people I would bring in and just
(27:43):
start talking and ask them like, who are you? This
podcast is really for marketers and entrepreneurs. What a marketers
not understand about beauty and health? People that are beauty
people don't understand that beauty is more than just makeup.
There are other things that are beauty, and women are
more interested in lifestyle than just beauty. So it's not
(28:04):
about this perfect thing in your face. It's about how
everything goes together. So when you look at models, and
you look at magazines, or you look at online or
social how are they getting wrong and how they're representing
things to women in America. Not everyone is doing it wrong,
but I think that there's a big opportunity because for years,
(28:24):
cosmetics companies and beauty companies will be telling people what's
wrong with them. You need this cream because your skin
is bad. You need this foundation because you're the wrong color.
You need this because you have to change in the
shape of your nose. That's not true. Yes, you want
to look good, but if you don't feel good, you're
not gonna look good. And it's not about weight or diet.
It's just about feeling good thinking about this moment in
(28:46):
time and beauty and fashion. How would you describe where
we are right now? We're at a very interesting time
because there's a combination of the YouTube makeup tutorials and
people becoming brands because of this platform them in makeup
that supports it. We also have the big brands that
are trying to figure out what's going on. We have
the digital brands that are some are doing brilliant jobs.
(29:09):
There's so many of them. And there's also the new
clean movement. So I find it a really exciting time.
But I see a really big white space talk about
ingredients and the products. It's changed a lot. It has
changed a lot, and hopefully it will change permanently because
there are a lot of ingredients that when I was
making cosmetics, I had no clue they weren't good for you.
(29:32):
Everything gets absorbed through the skin, So I only use organic,
clean things to clean my house. I make sure that
what I eat is as clean as possible. I know
not everyone listening could afford organic food, but if I
have a choice, I don't want chemicals. There's no reason
to do that. The best quality food that you can
put in your body is going to make you look better.
(29:54):
The clean beauty space is going to keep growing, and
I think eventually no one's gonna have a choice. Every
company is going to have to have clean products. So
you've been a big success by almost every measure of success, family, financial, work, fame, etcetera.
I know there are a lot of folks listening who
are building their careers today. What advice would you give them?
(30:16):
I mean, I would first of all say there is
no rush. I help a lot of young entrepreneurs that
I'm friends with, and they always seem like it has
to be done now. Oh my god, has we done?
Oh my god? Series A, Series B, I don't even
know what. Like, guys, calm down. You've got to build
a brand. People think that the whole idea of building
a brand is to sell it and make a lot
of money. No, build a brand that you love. It
takes time. It's like a baby. You've got to nurture it.
(30:38):
So I would tell people to relax and chill and
not be afraid to change if something they're doing isn't working. Change.
So as we wrap up, we end each episode with
a shout out to those special people on the creative side.
And on the analytical side of marketing and business, who
is your choice for that math person, that analytical brain
that you've encountered or know about. I mean, right now,
(31:01):
I'm going to say David Nass, who was my CFO,
just because he was the one that understood and he
knew exactly how to explain it to me and teach me.
So on the creative side, who's the magician? I would
say a photographer named Henry let Wilder. And I've been
looking for my creative marketing partner for a hundred years. Bobby,
you have an amazing life story, lots of valuable lessons.
(31:24):
Thanks for sharing, thanks for asking me. Nice to see you.
Here are a few things I've picked up in my
conversation with Bobby. One, there's no such thing as a
big break. As Bobby says, it's a lot of little
breaks that eventually add up to a big success. To
get excited about what you don't know, whether it's becoming
a magazine editor or hosting a podcast. Bobby is always
(31:47):
eager to step outside her comfort zone and try new things.
Three talk to everyone you can. Some of Bobby's most
important relationships from her makeup manufacturer to her distributor to
her book agent. All started with a simple conversation with
a stranger. Bobby has our own podcast, Beyond the Beauty
(32:08):
with Bobby Brown. Be sure to give it a listen.
That's it for today's episode. Thanks so much for listening
to Math and Magic, a production of I Heart Radio.
This show is hosted by Bob Pittman. Special thanks to
Sue Schillinger for booking and wrangling our wonderful talent, which
just no small feat. Nikkiatore for pulling research bill plaques
(32:28):
and Michael Asar for their recording help, our editor, Ryan Murdoch,
and of course Gayle Raoul, Eric Angel, Noel Mango and
everyone who helped bring this show to your ears. Until
next time,
Host
Bob Pittman
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