November 8, 2023 • 22 mins
Warning: This episode begins with a description of the assassination of John Lennon.
John Lennon’s assassination has reverberated across decades, country and culture. On the 8th of December, 1980 the world lost one of its greatest creative forces and advocates for peace. And Paul McCartney lost even more: a collaborator, a bandmate, and a dear friend. As McCartney sat in the upstairs room of his Sussex home, mourning his loss, he picked up a guitar, found a comforting set of chords and began memorializing his friendship with Lennon in song.
“McCartney: A Life in Lyrics” is a co-production between iHeart Media, MPL and Pushkin Industries.
The series was produced by Pejk Malinovski and Sara McCrea; written by Sara McCrea; edited by Dan O’Donnell and Sophie Crane; mastered by Jason Gambrell with sound design by Pejk Malinovski. The series is executive produced by Leital Molad, Justin Richmond, Lee Eastman, Scott Rodger and Paul McCartney.
Thanks to Lee Eastman, Richard Ewbank, Scott Rodger, Aoife Corbett and Steve Ithell.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
Pushkin.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Had you come home late at night on December eighth,
nineteen eighty and turned on your television, you would have
had some generation shaking news.
Speaker 3 (00:31):
He was shot late this evening in front of his
apartment building in New York City. Apparently he was killed
almost immediately. The man who shot John Lennon walked up
to the musician as he was leaving his limousine. According
to eyewitnesses, he said, mister Lennon and then fired at
him point blank at least five times.
Speaker 4 (00:50):
And if I.
Speaker 5 (00:51):
Said I really knew you, well, what would.
Speaker 4 (00:56):
Your answer me?
Speaker 6 (00:59):
This is basically a memory song that is a love
song to John.
Speaker 7 (01:12):
Or knowing you, you probably laugh and says that we
were worlds aboard.
Speaker 6 (01:20):
He's written after he died, and I was remembering things
about our relationship and things about the million things we've
done together.
Speaker 4 (01:33):
But as for me, I still remember it was before
and I am holding back the team.
Speaker 6 (01:49):
From just being in each other's front parlors or bedrooms,
or walking on the street together or hitchhiking love.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
And I've been fortunate to spend time with one of
the greatest songwriters of our era.
Speaker 4 (02:16):
And will you look at me?
Speaker 6 (02:18):
I'm going on to I'm actually a performer.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
That is, Sir Paul McCartney. We worked together on a
book looking at the lyrics of more than one hundred
and fifty of his songs, and we recorded many hours
of our conversations.
Speaker 6 (02:34):
I'm actually I'm a songwriter. My god, well, that crypta homie.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
This is McCartney, A life in lyrics, a masterclass, a memoir,
and an improvised journey with one of the most iconic
figures in popular music in this episode here today. John
Lennon died on December eighth, nineteen eighty. It was a
(03:01):
loss grieved by millions of people around the world. As
Paul McCartney mourned in the following years, he found himself
remembering all of the time they had spent together as
childhood friends, bandmates and creative collaborators.
Speaker 6 (03:20):
And I was in what is now my recording studio
in Sussex. It was just a little house. There was
little room upstairs that was bare wooden planks and bare walls,
and I had my guitar with me. So I just
sat there and wrote this and it started, as also
(03:41):
does with me. We're finding something nice on the guitar,
A good chord or something.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
Just this.
Speaker 6 (04:00):
If I said, but that it's just such a lovely chord,
it's not. I don't know what it is actually, And if.
Speaker 5 (04:17):
I said I really knew you, well, what would you
answer me?
Speaker 4 (04:25):
If you read day?
Speaker 8 (04:27):
One of the things which I find very interesting is
that the title is here today, but you never get
round to letting the others shoe drop as it were
on that when you don't refer to so far as
I can see.
Speaker 1 (04:43):
I E. Gone tomorrow. Mmm, no, which I think is
really quite beautiful. Yeah, I think.
Speaker 6 (04:53):
Do you know when I thought of here today, I
would have thought of it I was here today, gone tomorrow,
But I immediately just dropped, yes, gone tomorrow. I knew,
I knew. I didn't want that, And a bit I
wanted was this front pit.
Speaker 4 (05:14):
What about the time we met? About the time, well,
I suppose that you could say that we were playing
hard again.
Speaker 1 (05:21):
What about the time we met, Well, the first time
I ever.
Speaker 6 (05:26):
Saw John Lennon, he got on the bus and was
John always managed to be a little bit older than me.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
I never caught up.
Speaker 6 (05:36):
So he was like this sort of slightly older guy
with a sort of rocker hardoo lots of grease, black jacket,
side burns, sideboards as we called them. Burns was American,
and you know, I just remember thinking, well, he's a
cool guy, no idea who he is.
Speaker 4 (05:54):
Didn't understand the thing, but we could all say.
Speaker 6 (06:01):
And what would happen is when I would talk to people,
they'd sort of say, what are your hobbies?
Speaker 1 (06:06):
What do you like to do?
Speaker 6 (06:07):
Inevitably I'd say, and I've written a couple of songs.
And they got out and we pass that by and
we carry on a conversation. When I met John, were
just chapping what I've written a couple of songs. He said,
I was so vi So that was like a full stop.
So then it was like, let me hear what you've
(06:31):
done and I'll tell you. I'll show you right to him.
So that started us getting together. I think I was
possibly the first person he'd met who had said that
to him, and so that was the start of our relationship.
We decided to get together normally at my house and
(06:51):
my dad always left his pipe in the draw, so
we would take tea, fill the pipe with it and
smoke it.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
Yeah, that was before tea became tea exactly pre tea.
Speaker 4 (07:07):
If you ya.
Speaker 6 (07:14):
He normally one of the other of us would have
a fragment, tune up, have a segy cup of tea,
start playing some stuff, look for an idea. Nearly all
of its two guitars, and joy of that was that
I was left handed, he was right handed, So I
was looking in a mirror and he was looking in
(07:36):
a mirror.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
Just as their guitars mirrored each other, their personalities seemed
complimentary yin and yang. Jeff Emeriic, the head studio engineer
on several Beatles albums, observed that Paul was meticulous and organized.
John seemed to live in chaos. Paul was a natural communicator.
(08:07):
John couldn't artake get his idea as well. Paul was
the diplomat. John was the agitator.
Speaker 6 (08:15):
That was one of the good things about writing with John.
He would often come in from another angle. So if
I'm doing a song, it's getting better all the time,
John might easily say it couldn't get no worse, which
immediately opens the song right up. Okay, And that was
one of the things I loved about working with him.
(08:38):
He could have said it's getting better all the time. Yes,
indeed it is right. If you read it.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
The lyrics of here Today, imagine what Lennon might say
to McCartney if he were still alive. It's a practice
which informed much of Baurn McCartney's songwriting since the two
ended their musical collaboration. In the song, McCartney reckons with
the fact that since Lenon's passing, he has had to
(09:16):
spar with himself internalizing Lenon's creative opposition.
Speaker 6 (09:22):
Now I'm conscious that I don't have him very much,
and you know, often we'll sort of refer what John
has said, this is too soppy, you know.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
Yeah, you would have said no, no, no, So I'll
change it.
Speaker 6 (09:37):
But my songs have to reflect me, and you don't
have this opposing element so much.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
I have to do that myself these days, you know.
Speaker 6 (09:50):
And you know, if anyone sort of asked me what
was he like to work with John, the fact was
it was easier, much easier, because there were two minds
at work, and that interplay was nothing short of miraculous.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
While John Lennon's cynicism was often helpful in the songwriting
process with Baun McCartney, he could be quite harsh. He
had a very traumatic childhood, a distant father. There was
the early loss of his mother and his aunt's frequent
criticism and cruelty.
Speaker 6 (10:29):
John's persona was very guarded. Yeah, hopelessly guarded. You know.
That was where all his wit came from. It was
like so many comedians, it's to shield themselves against the world,
you know, and John having had this very difficult upbringing
(10:50):
where his father ly Tom lys and then his uncle
dies and then his mother gets killed.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
By the time I knew him, he could be very sarcastic,
but we all could.
Speaker 6 (11:03):
I mean, it was my way of dealing with my
mother's death and his too.
Speaker 1 (11:09):
So he would often they d funny I'll tell you
about you.
Speaker 6 (11:13):
Know, there would often being a very witty put down.
Wouldn't always be a put down, but it would. It's
always a quick answer, and he trained himself to do that.
It was kind of obvious to and that was one
of the attractive things about him self.
Speaker 1 (11:31):
Protective attack before we were attacked.
Speaker 7 (11:50):
Well knowing you, he probably laugh and says that we
were world around.
Speaker 5 (12:00):
Few to day.
Speaker 6 (12:04):
I played to the sort of more cynical side of John.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
It was certainly that. But whenever I sing this, I
do think.
Speaker 6 (12:14):
It's probably not true. You probably laugh and say we
were world's apart.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
This cynicism may seem particular to John Lennon, but it
was drilled into all young men of their generation as
part of some ideal of stoic masculinity.
Speaker 6 (12:32):
Why can't men say I love you to each other?
I don't think he's quite as true now, but I
think certainly when we were growing up, you had to
be gay for a man to say that to another man.
So you know, that bred a little bit of cynicism.
If you ever were talking about anything soppy, then the
(12:57):
next thing would be someone would have to make a
joke of it, just to ease the embarrassment in the room.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
And as boys couldn't admit their love for their friends,
they were also encouraged to hold back their tears.
Speaker 1 (13:17):
Boys don't cry.
Speaker 6 (13:18):
My dad wasn't like that, but that was the attitude
that you don't cry. Male people do not cry. Whereas
I think now it's acknowledged that it's a perfectly good
thing to do, And I say, well, you know, God
wouldn't have given us tears if he didn't mean us
to cry.
Speaker 7 (13:39):
What about the night we cried?
Speaker 9 (13:41):
Because there wasn't any reason. I have to keep it
on inside. Never still would you.
Speaker 4 (13:52):
With a smile.
Speaker 2 (13:55):
Even before the Beatles, Paul and John spent so much
time together that if they didn't acknowledge it in words,
their friendship had deepened. They grew closer and they came
to really know one another.
Speaker 6 (14:08):
John and I hitchhiked a lot. It was the kind
of way to get a holiday. You never you didn't
book holidays. Maybe your parents did that, but we don't
think we would have known how to.
Speaker 1 (14:22):
So you would do is you just.
Speaker 6 (14:25):
Head out. We would always take our guitars and it
was always just two of us. And from Liverpool you
go south. You don't really think of hitchhiking north. The
beaches are south and John and I got down to
(14:45):
ride on the Isle of Wight.
Speaker 1 (14:48):
Or why do you.
Speaker 6 (14:58):
Where My cousin Betty Elizabeth and her husband Mike were
running a pub. They did that, They ran pubs.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
Not only did McCartney's cousins Betty and Mike run a pub,
Mike was also an entertainment manager at Butland's. Butland's was
a chain of seaside resorts started by Billy Butlin in
nineteen thirty seven.
Speaker 10 (15:26):
Butlin's the big holiday where everyone enjoys everything at no
extra cost like the monorail.
Speaker 2 (15:32):
As this ad makes clear, the point was to provide
affordable holidays for working class families.
Speaker 10 (15:39):
A big holiday for everyone with everything to enjoy at
Butler's and remember no extra at the Bay.
Speaker 6 (15:46):
They were very showers and their kids all are great
little family who went down there. And it was great
really because I was sort of showing John part of
my world. It was very cute because we were goet
of young guys then still teen teenagers. H we'd play
(16:10):
our guitars. They'd love to hear us play.
Speaker 1 (16:13):
He was.
Speaker 6 (16:13):
He was a very funny guy and musical. He'd been
in a sort of an a cappella singing group with
zoot suits calling the Jones Boys. And we listened to
them on the radio once once on the radio, and
we all whole family tuned in, you know, guy collected
(16:34):
clippings of them. It was very cute to now think
of me and John in a bed top and tail,
a little single bed top and tail, and Betty and
Mike coming in to talk us in. It was so sweet,
you know, it's so sort of innocent. Play it again, ring, stop,
(16:58):
that's not me.
Speaker 4 (17:01):
What do your promise to be and help me.
Speaker 1 (17:08):
I'm tired.
Speaker 3 (17:09):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (17:13):
Even when John would attack Paul, he find ways of
signaling to his friend, the softer part of himself that
lay underneath the hard shell.
Speaker 6 (17:24):
I told you you were the classes all the time.
And we have we have an argument about something. I said, no, no, no,
no no, because I would have to stand up to
him because we're working together. And he'd say something but
particularly caustic. I'd be so wounded. And then he pulled
(17:47):
down his classes. He got it's only me, went back
and that was John. That to me, it was John,
It's only me. Oh all right, and you've just gone
and blustered and that was somebody else?
Speaker 4 (18:03):
Was it?
Speaker 1 (18:04):
Okay? And that was your shield talking.
Speaker 4 (18:08):
I'm giving up the business.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
We're doing it wrong. George is tuned up, tuning up.
I want to thieve.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
As Paul came to recognize when John's shield was up,
and when it was done, he learned how to comfort him.
Speaker 6 (18:31):
I remember him saying to me, oh, you know, I
worry about how people are going to remember me when
I die. And it kind of shocked me. I said, okay,
hold on, just hold it right there. People are going
to think you were great, You've already done enough work
to demonstrate that. So I was like I had to
(18:56):
I was like his priest often, you know, I'd have
to say, my son, you're great, don't worry about it,
you know whatever.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
And he would take it and make him feel better.
Speaker 7 (19:07):
What about the night we cry?
Speaker 4 (19:09):
Because there was any reason to keep it on inside?
Never would you.
Speaker 2 (19:22):
One stormy night in Key West, while the Beatles were
on tour shield dropped all together.
Speaker 1 (19:29):
What about the night we cry? That was a specific
incident in Key West.
Speaker 6 (19:34):
There was a hurricane coming in and we had to
lay low for a couple of days, and for some
reason they chose Key West, and so we were in
a little sort of motel room and stuff. So we
got very drunk and cried about, you know, I don't
know about how we loved each other or something.
Speaker 1 (19:56):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (19:57):
Writing here today, processing his friend's death, McCartney experienced a
similar emotional release. Once again, it was music the broke
down the barriers of masculinity, of violence, of the tragedy
of John's absence.
Speaker 4 (20:17):
But as for me, I still remember it was before.
Speaker 6 (20:26):
But as for me, I still remember how it was
before and I'm holding back the tears no more because
it was very moving, a very emotional writing this song,
because I was just sitting there saying this bare room,
thinking of John and realizing I'd lost him, and.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
It was a powerful loss. So to have a.
Speaker 6 (20:55):
Conversation with him in a song was some form of solace.
Speaker 1 (21:02):
Somehow I was with him again. What about the night
we cried?
Speaker 4 (21:07):
Because it was a learis do have to keep it on? This?
Speaker 6 (21:11):
And people come to my shows and this is I
do this, just me and a guitar, and I'm all
stuck in the middle of a great, big arena with
all these people, and people tell me they look around,
there's a lot of people crying. And I think you
know because it is a very sentimental, nostalgic, emotional song.
Speaker 4 (21:38):
For you were in my song.
Speaker 2 (21:49):
Dude here Today from Tug of War, released in nineteen
eighty two.
Speaker 4 (22:05):
When you Are in your Heart.
Speaker 1 (22:09):
Was an open book.
Speaker 2 (22:11):
In the next episode, you.
Speaker 4 (22:13):
Used to say lilently.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
McCartney's secret aspiration to write a Bond song.
Speaker 9 (22:22):
The ever changing world in which we live in makes
you giving and crawn.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
McCartney. A Life in Lyrics is a co production between
iHeartMedia NPL and Pushkin Industries
Pushkin.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Had you come home late at night on December eighth,
nineteen eighty and turned on your television, you would have
had some generation shaking news.
Speaker 3 (00:31):
He was shot late this evening in front of his
apartment building in New York City. Apparently he was killed
almost immediately. The man who shot John Lennon walked up
to the musician as he was leaving his limousine. According
to eyewitnesses, he said, mister Lennon and then fired at
him point blank at least five times.
Speaker 4 (00:50):
And if I.
Speaker 5 (00:51):
Said I really knew you, well, what would.
Speaker 4 (00:56):
Your answer me?
Speaker 6 (00:59):
This is basically a memory song that is a love
song to John.
Speaker 7 (01:12):
Or knowing you, you probably laugh and says that we
were worlds aboard.
Speaker 6 (01:20):
He's written after he died, and I was remembering things
about our relationship and things about the million things we've
done together.
Speaker 4 (01:33):
But as for me, I still remember it was before
and I am holding back the team.
Speaker 6 (01:49):
From just being in each other's front parlors or bedrooms,
or walking on the street together or hitchhiking love.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
And I've been fortunate to spend time with one of
the greatest songwriters of our era.
Speaker 4 (02:16):
And will you look at me?
Speaker 6 (02:18):
I'm going on to I'm actually a performer.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
That is, Sir Paul McCartney. We worked together on a
book looking at the lyrics of more than one hundred
and fifty of his songs, and we recorded many hours
of our conversations.
Speaker 6 (02:34):
I'm actually I'm a songwriter. My god, well, that crypta homie.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
This is McCartney, A life in lyrics, a masterclass, a memoir,
and an improvised journey with one of the most iconic
figures in popular music in this episode here today. John
Lennon died on December eighth, nineteen eighty. It was a
(03:01):
loss grieved by millions of people around the world. As
Paul McCartney mourned in the following years, he found himself
remembering all of the time they had spent together as
childhood friends, bandmates and creative collaborators.
Speaker 6 (03:20):
And I was in what is now my recording studio
in Sussex. It was just a little house. There was
little room upstairs that was bare wooden planks and bare walls,
and I had my guitar with me. So I just
sat there and wrote this and it started, as also
(03:41):
does with me. We're finding something nice on the guitar,
A good chord or something.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
Just this.
Speaker 6 (04:00):
If I said, but that it's just such a lovely chord,
it's not. I don't know what it is actually, And if.
Speaker 5 (04:17):
I said I really knew you, well, what would you
answer me?
Speaker 4 (04:25):
If you read day?
Speaker 8 (04:27):
One of the things which I find very interesting is
that the title is here today, but you never get
round to letting the others shoe drop as it were
on that when you don't refer to so far as
I can see.
Speaker 1 (04:43):
I E. Gone tomorrow. Mmm, no, which I think is
really quite beautiful. Yeah, I think.
Speaker 6 (04:53):
Do you know when I thought of here today, I
would have thought of it I was here today, gone tomorrow,
But I immediately just dropped, yes, gone tomorrow. I knew,
I knew. I didn't want that, And a bit I
wanted was this front pit.
Speaker 4 (05:14):
What about the time we met? About the time, well,
I suppose that you could say that we were playing
hard again.
Speaker 1 (05:21):
What about the time we met, Well, the first time
I ever.
Speaker 6 (05:26):
Saw John Lennon, he got on the bus and was
John always managed to be a little bit older than me.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
I never caught up.
Speaker 6 (05:36):
So he was like this sort of slightly older guy
with a sort of rocker hardoo lots of grease, black jacket,
side burns, sideboards as we called them. Burns was American,
and you know, I just remember thinking, well, he's a
cool guy, no idea who he is.
Speaker 4 (05:54):
Didn't understand the thing, but we could all say.
Speaker 6 (06:01):
And what would happen is when I would talk to people,
they'd sort of say, what are your hobbies?
Speaker 1 (06:06):
What do you like to do?
Speaker 6 (06:07):
Inevitably I'd say, and I've written a couple of songs.
And they got out and we pass that by and
we carry on a conversation. When I met John, were
just chapping what I've written a couple of songs. He said,
I was so vi So that was like a full stop.
So then it was like, let me hear what you've
(06:31):
done and I'll tell you. I'll show you right to him.
So that started us getting together. I think I was
possibly the first person he'd met who had said that
to him, and so that was the start of our relationship.
We decided to get together normally at my house and
(06:51):
my dad always left his pipe in the draw, so
we would take tea, fill the pipe with it and
smoke it.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
Yeah, that was before tea became tea exactly pre tea.
Speaker 4 (07:07):
If you ya.
Speaker 6 (07:14):
He normally one of the other of us would have
a fragment, tune up, have a segy cup of tea,
start playing some stuff, look for an idea. Nearly all
of its two guitars, and joy of that was that
I was left handed, he was right handed, So I
was looking in a mirror and he was looking in
(07:36):
a mirror.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
Just as their guitars mirrored each other, their personalities seemed
complimentary yin and yang. Jeff Emeriic, the head studio engineer
on several Beatles albums, observed that Paul was meticulous and organized.
John seemed to live in chaos. Paul was a natural communicator.
(08:07):
John couldn't artake get his idea as well. Paul was
the diplomat. John was the agitator.
Speaker 6 (08:15):
That was one of the good things about writing with John.
He would often come in from another angle. So if
I'm doing a song, it's getting better all the time,
John might easily say it couldn't get no worse, which
immediately opens the song right up. Okay, And that was
one of the things I loved about working with him.
(08:38):
He could have said it's getting better all the time. Yes,
indeed it is right. If you read it.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
The lyrics of here Today, imagine what Lennon might say
to McCartney if he were still alive. It's a practice
which informed much of Baurn McCartney's songwriting since the two
ended their musical collaboration. In the song, McCartney reckons with
the fact that since Lenon's passing, he has had to
(09:16):
spar with himself internalizing Lenon's creative opposition.
Speaker 6 (09:22):
Now I'm conscious that I don't have him very much,
and you know, often we'll sort of refer what John
has said, this is too soppy, you know.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
Yeah, you would have said no, no, no, So I'll
change it.
Speaker 6 (09:37):
But my songs have to reflect me, and you don't
have this opposing element so much.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
I have to do that myself these days, you know.
Speaker 6 (09:50):
And you know, if anyone sort of asked me what
was he like to work with John, the fact was
it was easier, much easier, because there were two minds
at work, and that interplay was nothing short of miraculous.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
While John Lennon's cynicism was often helpful in the songwriting
process with Baun McCartney, he could be quite harsh. He
had a very traumatic childhood, a distant father. There was
the early loss of his mother and his aunt's frequent
criticism and cruelty.
Speaker 6 (10:29):
John's persona was very guarded. Yeah, hopelessly guarded. You know.
That was where all his wit came from. It was
like so many comedians, it's to shield themselves against the world,
you know, and John having had this very difficult upbringing
(10:50):
where his father ly Tom lys and then his uncle
dies and then his mother gets killed.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
By the time I knew him, he could be very sarcastic,
but we all could.
Speaker 6 (11:03):
I mean, it was my way of dealing with my
mother's death and his too.
Speaker 1 (11:09):
So he would often they d funny I'll tell you
about you.
Speaker 6 (11:13):
Know, there would often being a very witty put down.
Wouldn't always be a put down, but it would. It's
always a quick answer, and he trained himself to do that.
It was kind of obvious to and that was one
of the attractive things about him self.
Speaker 1 (11:31):
Protective attack before we were attacked.
Speaker 7 (11:50):
Well knowing you, he probably laugh and says that we
were world around.
Speaker 5 (12:00):
Few to day.
Speaker 6 (12:04):
I played to the sort of more cynical side of John.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
It was certainly that. But whenever I sing this, I
do think.
Speaker 6 (12:14):
It's probably not true. You probably laugh and say we
were world's apart.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
This cynicism may seem particular to John Lennon, but it
was drilled into all young men of their generation as
part of some ideal of stoic masculinity.
Speaker 6 (12:32):
Why can't men say I love you to each other?
I don't think he's quite as true now, but I
think certainly when we were growing up, you had to
be gay for a man to say that to another man.
So you know, that bred a little bit of cynicism.
If you ever were talking about anything soppy, then the
(12:57):
next thing would be someone would have to make a
joke of it, just to ease the embarrassment in the room.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
And as boys couldn't admit their love for their friends,
they were also encouraged to hold back their tears.
Speaker 1 (13:17):
Boys don't cry.
Speaker 6 (13:18):
My dad wasn't like that, but that was the attitude
that you don't cry. Male people do not cry. Whereas
I think now it's acknowledged that it's a perfectly good
thing to do, And I say, well, you know, God
wouldn't have given us tears if he didn't mean us
to cry.
Speaker 7 (13:39):
What about the night we cried?
Speaker 9 (13:41):
Because there wasn't any reason. I have to keep it
on inside. Never still would you.
Speaker 4 (13:52):
With a smile.
Speaker 2 (13:55):
Even before the Beatles, Paul and John spent so much
time together that if they didn't acknowledge it in words,
their friendship had deepened. They grew closer and they came
to really know one another.
Speaker 6 (14:08):
John and I hitchhiked a lot. It was the kind
of way to get a holiday. You never you didn't
book holidays. Maybe your parents did that, but we don't
think we would have known how to.
Speaker 1 (14:22):
So you would do is you just.
Speaker 6 (14:25):
Head out. We would always take our guitars and it
was always just two of us. And from Liverpool you
go south. You don't really think of hitchhiking north. The
beaches are south and John and I got down to
(14:45):
ride on the Isle of Wight.
Speaker 1 (14:48):
Or why do you.
Speaker 6 (14:58):
Where My cousin Betty Elizabeth and her husband Mike were
running a pub. They did that, They ran pubs.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
Not only did McCartney's cousins Betty and Mike run a pub,
Mike was also an entertainment manager at Butland's. Butland's was
a chain of seaside resorts started by Billy Butlin in
nineteen thirty seven.
Speaker 10 (15:26):
Butlin's the big holiday where everyone enjoys everything at no
extra cost like the monorail.
Speaker 2 (15:32):
As this ad makes clear, the point was to provide
affordable holidays for working class families.
Speaker 10 (15:39):
A big holiday for everyone with everything to enjoy at
Butler's and remember no extra at the Bay.
Speaker 6 (15:46):
They were very showers and their kids all are great
little family who went down there. And it was great
really because I was sort of showing John part of
my world. It was very cute because we were goet
of young guys then still teen teenagers. H we'd play
(16:10):
our guitars. They'd love to hear us play.
Speaker 1 (16:13):
He was.
Speaker 6 (16:13):
He was a very funny guy and musical. He'd been
in a sort of an a cappella singing group with
zoot suits calling the Jones Boys. And we listened to
them on the radio once once on the radio, and
we all whole family tuned in, you know, guy collected
(16:34):
clippings of them. It was very cute to now think
of me and John in a bed top and tail,
a little single bed top and tail, and Betty and
Mike coming in to talk us in. It was so sweet,
you know, it's so sort of innocent. Play it again, ring, stop,
(16:58):
that's not me.
Speaker 4 (17:01):
What do your promise to be and help me.
Speaker 1 (17:08):
I'm tired.
Speaker 3 (17:09):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (17:13):
Even when John would attack Paul, he find ways of
signaling to his friend, the softer part of himself that
lay underneath the hard shell.
Speaker 6 (17:24):
I told you you were the classes all the time.
And we have we have an argument about something. I said, no, no, no,
no no, because I would have to stand up to
him because we're working together. And he'd say something but
particularly caustic. I'd be so wounded. And then he pulled
(17:47):
down his classes. He got it's only me, went back
and that was John. That to me, it was John,
It's only me. Oh all right, and you've just gone
and blustered and that was somebody else?
Speaker 4 (18:03):
Was it?
Speaker 1 (18:04):
Okay? And that was your shield talking.
Speaker 4 (18:08):
I'm giving up the business.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
We're doing it wrong. George is tuned up, tuning up.
I want to thieve.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
As Paul came to recognize when John's shield was up,
and when it was done, he learned how to comfort him.
Speaker 6 (18:31):
I remember him saying to me, oh, you know, I
worry about how people are going to remember me when
I die. And it kind of shocked me. I said, okay,
hold on, just hold it right there. People are going
to think you were great, You've already done enough work
to demonstrate that. So I was like I had to
(18:56):
I was like his priest often, you know, I'd have
to say, my son, you're great, don't worry about it,
you know whatever.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
And he would take it and make him feel better.
Speaker 7 (19:07):
What about the night we cry?
Speaker 4 (19:09):
Because there was any reason to keep it on inside?
Never would you.
Speaker 2 (19:22):
One stormy night in Key West, while the Beatles were
on tour shield dropped all together.
Speaker 1 (19:29):
What about the night we cry? That was a specific
incident in Key West.
Speaker 6 (19:34):
There was a hurricane coming in and we had to
lay low for a couple of days, and for some
reason they chose Key West, and so we were in
a little sort of motel room and stuff. So we
got very drunk and cried about, you know, I don't
know about how we loved each other or something.
Speaker 1 (19:56):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (19:57):
Writing here today, processing his friend's death, McCartney experienced a
similar emotional release. Once again, it was music the broke
down the barriers of masculinity, of violence, of the tragedy
of John's absence.
Speaker 4 (20:17):
But as for me, I still remember it was before.
Speaker 6 (20:26):
But as for me, I still remember how it was
before and I'm holding back the tears no more because
it was very moving, a very emotional writing this song,
because I was just sitting there saying this bare room,
thinking of John and realizing I'd lost him, and.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
It was a powerful loss. So to have a.
Speaker 6 (20:55):
Conversation with him in a song was some form of solace.
Speaker 1 (21:02):
Somehow I was with him again. What about the night
we cried?
Speaker 4 (21:07):
Because it was a learis do have to keep it on? This?
Speaker 6 (21:11):
And people come to my shows and this is I
do this, just me and a guitar, and I'm all
stuck in the middle of a great, big arena with
all these people, and people tell me they look around,
there's a lot of people crying. And I think you
know because it is a very sentimental, nostalgic, emotional song.
Speaker 4 (21:38):
For you were in my song.
Speaker 2 (21:49):
Dude here Today from Tug of War, released in nineteen
eighty two.
Speaker 4 (22:05):
When you Are in your Heart.
Speaker 1 (22:09):
Was an open book.
Speaker 2 (22:11):
In the next episode, you.
Speaker 4 (22:13):
Used to say lilently.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
McCartney's secret aspiration to write a Bond song.
Speaker 9 (22:22):
The ever changing world in which we live in makes
you giving and crawn.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
McCartney. A Life in Lyrics is a co production between
iHeartMedia NPL and Pushkin Industries
Host
Paul McCartney
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