April 22, 2024 • 40 mins
London-born musician Anna B Savage talks to Stu in this particularly freewheeling episode of Midnight Chats that covers topics including meeting Cillian Murphy, present-opening etiquette, music industry anxiety, and what the hell is success anyway?!
Stu also reveals to Anna where she is/was on the Loud And Quiet 2023 Albums of the Year list. And then there's a song to end.
Give the show a follow on Instagram at @midnightchatspod for clips and more.
This episode was recored in November 2023.
Further links:
Listen to Anna's cover of 'A Girl Like You'
Read our most recent interview with Anna from issue 157 of Loud And Quiet
Read the full L&Q Albums of the Year 2023
Credits:
Interview and editing by Stuart Stubbs
Mixing and Mastering by Flo Lines
Artwork by Kate Prior
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Let's do that thing where you have to sing the
song together looking at each other's mouths. Who's leading and
who's following? You lead and I'll follow.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
Evening, everyone, Welcome to Midnight Chat's the music interview podcast.
My name is Greg Cochrane. I'm Stuart Stubbs and on
this week's podcast, Stu, you got to speak with someone
and sing with someone. Yeah, thankfully this is the first
episode and probably the last episode in which you'll hear
me sing tell me about Anna, because listen, I don't
(00:32):
know Anna's work that well. So Anna is a relatively
new artist. She's from North London. She's released two albums
to date. Last year was our second album in Flux.
We were talking in November early November twenty twenty three,
and in this conversation you'll actually hear me reveal to
Anna where she is on our Albums of the Year list.
(00:53):
So that's a little bit of context. We were just
dealing with, like what was our top forty going to be?
Anna's album in Flux was on that list. Her previous
album was called A Common Turn, another beautiful record. Anna's
music I think if I was to describe it would
be it's very raw. It's very confessional, plays the guitar beautifully,
sings very very beautifully, and it's very emotional music. And
(01:17):
you hear it and you sort of think, oh, maybe
this person is going to be quite an intense interview,
but she's not. I've met Anna a few times and
she's such a good laugh and I think we had
a good time together recording this. We'll talk about Killian Murphy.
She met Killian Murphy last year. It's a very free
wheeling conversation. This it's exactly sort of what I've always
(01:40):
hoped Midnight Chats to be, and it was made a
little easier because Anna's very good at this. I want
to hear you singing, stew I've been waiting a long
time for this. Here is Anna be Savage on tonight's
episode of Midnight Chats. Hello, Anna, Hello, Welcome to the podcast.
(02:04):
Anna B. Savage's it's a hell of a name.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
Thank you very much.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
It's good, isn't it?
Speaker 1 (02:10):
Yeah? It's pretty good.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
You pleased with it?
Speaker 1 (02:12):
I am?
Speaker 2 (02:13):
Yeah. You get a lot of people asking about the bee.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
I do, yeah. I also yeah, I get a lot
of people not really believing that it's my actual name.
I get people congratulating me.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
A lot like I just did.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
Yeah, but like passport control, they're like, oh sick.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
So people are thinking it must be a stage name. Yeah,
because it's it's the Savage.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
It's good, it's too good.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
It's the Savage.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
The BEE, of course stands.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
For Brian, Brian famously.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
Is it common knowledge what the BEE stands for?
Speaker 1 (02:45):
It is not.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
Let's keep it that way. I when I was at school,
when I was a child, my mum had all of
these little tags, these little ribbons that said Stuart M.
Stubbs that she'd put in all of my clothes. My
brother had Peter K. Stubbs.
Speaker 1 (03:01):
Not as good, I don't think, But Peter K is
quite fun.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
That's quite fun. This was pre Peter K. Yeah. Sadly.
People in my cast, when they would ask what the
M stood for, I would always say Maurice. Oh, which
it isn't. That's not what the M stands for. Well,
that's fun, But I just thought it was more interesting
than what the M does stand for.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
This is that's kind of the exact opposite problem that
I have, which is that I have zero imagination, so
I couldn't come up with a name for my artist
version of me. So you just put the I just
put my actual initial in the middle.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
Did you what made you not just go for Anna Savage?
Because I mean, the bee is making it, isn't it?
Speaker 1 (03:44):
Yeah? The B makes it.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
Well.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
I thought it was a fun pun for a start. Yes,
it is my actual initial, and I don't know Anna.
I am Anna Savage like I've been Anna Savage since
I was little. I needed some differentiation between me and my.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
Person Yesterday I went to a fancy screening of a
movie that's not out yet. Okay about the darkness no way? Yeah,
darkness fan.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
Yes obviously. Can you see the glee in my face?
And here it's in my voice?
Speaker 2 (04:16):
You know, it's like the Darkness. I mean. The reason
I've mentioned that is because what you were just saying
about personas is really good film. By the way, I
can't rate it rate it enough. It's called Welcome to
the Darkness. I don't know when it's out.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
It's a documentary.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
It's a documentary. It's it's their spinal tap and it's
very spark tap obviously, but Justin Hawkins talks in it
about his persona and how he became quote unquote Justin
Hawkins even though that's his real name, and he talks
about how, you know, his drug addiction was essentially him
method acting his way into being a rock star.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
Yeah, I think that I feel like that would be
a real danger if if you do use completely your
real name, like mine's still very very close to my
real name, Like my family will be like, oh, Anabe
Savage is here.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
You know do they find it amusing?
Speaker 1 (05:09):
Yeah? Yeah, that you have that tiny differentiation is enough
to be like, I think I'm saved as Annabe Savage
in my sister's phone and stuff. But yeah, I can
totally see how that would especially if you're so successful,
like the Darkness and it just kind of comes out
of well, not nowhere, but like comes very quickly. There
would be you know, moments where it's like, wait, does
this real me?
Speaker 2 (05:29):
Or so you're do you feel that you put on
a persona at what points, like when you're on stage?
Speaker 1 (05:39):
Well, this is also the funny, naughty, difficult thing. It
is that I feel like the music I write is
so kind of exposing, and I try and be so
emotionally honest that it would be weird if I then
put on a persona to like perform them. Yeah, but
I guess it's like a tiny bit of it's like
(06:00):
just to give me that tiny bit of wiggle room.
I think that when I when I perform, I definitely
recently have become more myself, which is really nice. I
think in the past I used to try different things
out because I was quite nervous, whereas now I can
add in the kind of like goofiness and silliness of
(06:23):
me and not feel like it's too difficult to pair
with the music, I guess, Whereas in the past I
was just like absolutely bringing it all the time, so
I just needed something to feel like I was in control.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
Sure, Well, this like, so we've we've spoken a fair
few times. I'd say we know each other close friends.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
I would say we're friends.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
One thing I don't think we've ever spoken about, but this,
this is the origin story that I have heard. I
think about your music, okay, and you can tell me
if it's correct or not. Am I right in thinking?
There was a time where you started releasing music and
you went on a tour with father John Misty and
things were looking things were going well, and then you
(07:05):
decided I don't want to do this right now, I'm
not ready for this right now. Is there any truth
in that?
Speaker 1 (07:12):
It's adjacent to the truth, Okay for sure. So I yeah,
released music I think it was like twenty fourteen, twenty
fifteen ish, and people seemed to like it, and then
I got asked, I know, and then I got asked
to go on this tour with father John Misty, which
was obviously absolutely dreamy. Can I swear on this there's
(07:34):
been okay, cool, There's been a couple of instances where I'm.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
Like, no, go for it, that's fine.
Speaker 1 (07:39):
It was fucking dreamy and went on this.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
Tour dreamy guy, very dreamy guy, very dreamy.
Speaker 1 (07:45):
Guy, like a total sweetheart. I really he was so
kind to me that whole tour and so generous and yeah,
big love for Josh. I found myself then being like, okay, cool,
I need to write this wave because famously the music
industry is quite fickle and they want you.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
To watch the Darkness documentary.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
Okay, yes, and yeah, I want you to create stuff
a lot and be putting stuff out a lot. And
I was quite a low ebb at that point in
my kind of personal life, so I wouldn't say it
was a decision to step away from the industry. It
was more like a crushing lack of self confidence and
(08:31):
load of self loathing that kind of stopped me from
actually writing anything because I had this weird like duel
thing in my head where I was like, either I
really lucked out and managed to convince everyone that that
was good, but I can never create anything again, or
everyone's like playing this trick on me, and you know,
(08:53):
just like classic low self confidence stuff. So I didn't
write anything, and I couldn't write anything I was trying to,
and everyone kept being like, this is your one chance.
If you don't take this, then you're not going to
be able to do music, which obviously is super helpful
when you're feeling the pressure. And so yeah, basically that happened,
and I couldn't get anything out. And then one by one,
(09:16):
all the people that I knew in the industry kind
of disappeared or left or went to a different industry
or except for my wonderful booking agent, and I was
a bit like, oh, okay, well, now I don't have
any pressure and I've got myself out of this like
bad personal scenario and I've kind of built my I
guess like built my confidence, built my personality back up.
(09:38):
I'm going to try writing a fucking album. So I
wrote this album with zero pressure, zero interest, zero anything
really and then had it and then didn't they what
to do. So just kind of like, you know, did
stuff at the same time, but not really any music stuff.
(10:00):
And then I went on a music residency in Canada
and I started kind of tentatively playing it to these
people who I just like, I hadn't known them before,
but I admired them all so much that incredible musicians,
incredible creators, creatives, and they were like, oh, this is
fucking good, Like you should do something with this. I
was like, oh, OK, maybe I will. So I came
(10:23):
home after this and spent all my savings paying my
producer Will Doyle to record the album with me, and
then had the album and then I had to start
like sending out to people being like, hello, do you
remember me from me five years ago?
Speaker 2 (10:38):
But did you find that point at that point did
that sort of pressure kick back in once you were
like had the thing to sell it or had it
gone because you'd created the thing?
Speaker 1 (10:51):
It had gone because I created the thing. I just
felt so tough to myself. I genuinely was like beside
myself with glee at the fact that I had managed
to complete this thing which had previously seemed completely unfathomable
to me, like insurmountable. Didn't know how anyone would write
an album, And.
Speaker 2 (11:09):
Now you've written two in flux released earlier this year. Correct,
How's twenty twenty three B twenty.
Speaker 1 (11:17):
Twenty three has been actually quite hard?
Speaker 2 (11:19):
Has it?
Speaker 1 (11:21):
Just like personal stuff?
Speaker 2 (11:22):
Right?
Speaker 1 (11:22):
But professionally it's been good?
Speaker 2 (11:26):
I think it is a serious question. Oh well, I
guess it's serious. Yeah, is do you when you release
a record like that or any record, do you have
you personally? What is your barometer of success for you? Like?
Speaker 1 (11:43):
Oh, a serious question that makes me sound entirely unhinged. Great,
I well, you have like you have like your your
hopes for it, and then you have like your hopes
for it, so like you know, the hopes are like,
I hope I can get to make another album. I
hope this one like touches people in a similarish way
(12:07):
than the first one did. I hope people like it
as much as people seem to like the first one.
And then there's like to win the Mercury breads film
all the money.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
That's good. That should be in your mind. Though in
a way, right, I think.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
So it makes things very disappointing.
Speaker 2 (12:26):
Yeah, I remember Orlando Weeks. Do you have me met Orlando?
Speaker 1 (12:31):
I haven't met him.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
No, Lovely ma'am came on the podcast and he I
don't know if it was actually in the recording or
afterward finished, but he was saying to him, success is
I think I was probably moaning about something afterwards, and
he was saying, like, success to him is just being
able to make the next thing. If the thing that
he makes, whatever that is, allows him to make another one,
(12:56):
then it's all good and that's the goal. And then
the success of that one will be to carry on
doing the thing totally. Anything to stop you having to
get a real job, I guess is another way of
saying that, right. But I also think it's natural for
you to want to win the Mercury. I want to,
you know, yeah whatever, have those sort of plaudits, because
I think that's sort of just quite a natural part
(13:17):
of being a performer totally an artist and a creative.
Speaker 1 (13:21):
Yeah, And I think that well for me, and perhaps
this is my super naive not having got close to
any of those things at all. View But like with
those things for me would come money, I think, which
then affords me the opportunity to make stuff again in
the future, because there's this, like, you know, they're really
it does feel like you're on the edge of a
(13:42):
precipice all the time trying to be a creative and
it is like, I do think it's miraculous that this
is my job. Like it's wild to me that I,
you know, get by doing this just about and it
feels like an imense privilege being able to just express myself.
(14:04):
I mean, I've listened to enough celebrity podcasts to know
that when you win the prizes, it doesn't feel the
same way as you think it will feel when you
want to win the prizes. Yeah, yeah, but I think
there's that that mix of yeah, potentially getting welcomed into
the club to be like, maybe now you have enough
gravitas behind you to be able to sustain this for
(14:26):
that little bit longer, you know. I feel like this year,
I've complained a lot about money because it feels quite
scary being trying to go on tour and all that
kind of stuff, And I've complained to my therapist about it,
probably more more than I should have done, and at
a certain point she said, I mean, it's so good
that someone can be this honest with me and really
(14:47):
just hit the nail on the head. She basically said
to me. She was like, you know that the way
that you write music and the kind of music you're writing,
you're only writing to express yourself. You're not writing to
make money. You're not writing like you know, pop bangers
or whatever. So it's really funny that you should expect
to make loads of cash and like feel financially confident
(15:09):
when all you're doing is being like, this is my
emotions and this is my heart and this is how
I feel like. It's you know, that's an anomaly when
that happens, when those two things overlap.
Speaker 2 (15:20):
That's Radiohead.
Speaker 1 (15:20):
That's exactly my example that I always use.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
That's my go to thing.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
And that was really fun because she kind of said
that to me and I was like, huh, that's completely accurate.
Speaker 2 (15:33):
You have earned your money.
Speaker 1 (15:36):
She's so great though, she doesn't let me get away
with any of my ship any more more money. Yeah,
it's like, well, change what you're working through exactly.
Speaker 2 (15:47):
How about end of year lists? Is that something you
will be paying attention to? Do you ignore that stuff?
Speaker 1 (15:54):
I mean, it's always nice, isn't it if you end
up on an end of year list? Weirdly, I don't.
I haven't hadn't even kind of hadn't remembered that my
album came out of this year.
Speaker 2 (16:02):
It's going to be a surprise cycle.
Speaker 1 (16:04):
Yeah, exactly. I feel like the cycle for me feels
like it's finished at the moment, so it'll be fun
if it does turn up on anyone's end of your list.
Oh yea, it's November.
Speaker 2 (16:13):
It's November. It's happening. We're currently putting ours together at
the magazine. It's on the list. Oh f in flux?
Do you want to know where it is on the list? Yes,
because this podcast is going to come out. The list
will be out by the time this goes out. Oh
my god, So we have a top forty?
Speaker 1 (16:31):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (16:34):
Where do you think you'd be on the list?
Speaker 1 (16:36):
Forty?
Speaker 2 (16:37):
No? No, you're higher? Are you ready join me? Say?
Speaker 1 (16:40):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (16:42):
Number three?
Speaker 1 (16:45):
Are you fucking serious?
Speaker 2 (16:46):
Pretty good? Pretty good on the list?
Speaker 1 (16:49):
That's fucking up.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
Yeah. I think you're gonna be on a lot of
lists though.
Speaker 1 (16:53):
That's so cool.
Speaker 2 (16:55):
That's not bad? Is it? Number three?
Speaker 1 (16:56):
Fucking great?
Speaker 2 (16:57):
Shall I let you know who's who's Who's whose?
Speaker 1 (16:59):
Number?
Speaker 2 (17:00):
Who's beaten you? Number one is Lankham legit? And number
two oh we can circle back to Lancam in a second.
Actually put a pinion Lancam for a second. Number two
is Danny Brown and Jpeg Mafia. Oh they did like
a collab album.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
Okay, then it's you La Force on your top forty
unbelievably good album. If you haven't listened to it.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
I don't think I have skeleton, Okay, I mean things
could change. I can listen to that, could put that
number three maybe, yeah, that sounds good. Then just moving back.
Speaker 1 (17:34):
To forty, that's amazing. Is that why I'm getting interviewed?
Speaker 2 (17:42):
No? No, You're just You're You're just, you know, always
a allowed and quite fixture. I feel, and I thought,
you know, I thought I may as well tell you
where you are. It's tricky, isn't it? Because I feel
you've taken this news very well, fucking Jeff, because you know,
I mean, it's it's but also like I am personally
am really bad at taking anything any good news. I
(18:03):
think I'm worse at good news, like how you are
opening a present at Christmas? Oh awful, and like people
are watching you, people like.
Speaker 1 (18:11):
I cannot hide my real emotion from my face, Like
it will just show up on my face.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
Oh that's good though, so like because I'm my issue
is if someone buys me a gift that is lovely
and I love it and it's the best thing. It's
a ferrari. It's what matter what it is? Number one,
couldn't matter what it is because I'm a ten year
old constantly whatever it is, I can't EXPI I'm like
(18:38):
this sort of just this Mannikin. We went to stay
with a friend for Christmas one the one time I've
not been at my family home. I guest for Christmas.
I was in Australia, if you've heard of that, And
it was weird because you know, it's very sunny and
it's like just a different whole from thing going on.
(19:01):
And I had never met Tristan, our friend Tristan, my
wife feels friend Tristan, and I'd never met his family before.
And they did a thing where when they exchange presents,
they give you a present from like oh, this presence
for Annah, they give it to you, and then everyone
just watches you. Oh God, and you unwrap it and
(19:25):
then you talk about it. Oh yeah, this is another
thing I'm bad at. Let's say I got you this
box and you open it and we're all watching it.
There's a room people watching you open it. Would you
get it, unwrap it, and then start unpacking it from
the box, look to look at the thing in the box,
or would you unwrap it, say oh thanks, it's that microphone,
(19:48):
put that to one side and think I'm going to
I'll get it all out later.
Speaker 1 (19:52):
Yeah. I think that I probably would feel the pressure
to open it and then open it more, because that
looks like kill more into it, even if I'm super
into it.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
That is the I think you're correct, And I forget
that second stage every single time, so it looks like
I don't really I'm ungrateful because I am next. Yeah, exactly,
I unwrap it. I just put it there next to
the box of old ties. As I wrap, I'm wrapped
before every year I go into Christmas thinking need to
(20:26):
be better at that. Yeah, and I'm going to my
brothers in all this Christmas.
Speaker 1 (20:31):
I'm going to get on with your brother in law.
Speaker 2 (20:33):
I do love that I do.
Speaker 1 (20:34):
Do you have to say that because it's a podcast.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
He won't listen to. No one I know listens to this,
so no, he won't listen to this. But that no
one we do get on. But that's what I'm going
to try and do.
Speaker 1 (20:48):
Oh no, but what if it looks really insincere?
Speaker 2 (20:51):
Oh it will? You have been in Ireland recently?
Speaker 1 (21:00):
I have yet.
Speaker 2 (21:01):
I saw a photo of you sat with Killie Murphy.
Speaker 1 (21:05):
That's correct.
Speaker 2 (21:06):
He looked okay one, yeah, explain yourself. Two. In the
image he looked very enamored with what you were saying.
Speaker 1 (21:15):
So you've seen the good image. There's two images, one
where he looks like he is barely tolerating me and
the other one where he's like, oh this is funny. Yeah,
it was really fun we had I went to Sounds
from a Safe Harbor.
Speaker 2 (21:28):
This is his festival, right or he's involved.
Speaker 1 (21:31):
He's involved in it. Yeah, and the guys from a
lot of yeah, a lot of big dogs in Cork
this festival. Yeah, this one was in Cork. They've also
had them in Wisconsin and Berlin. It was an incredible experience.
It was so you have like a week's residency and
then the weekend festival and the residency is just all
(21:52):
of these gigantic, amazing musicians who are you know, unfathomably talented.
The first day, I was in a room with like
Caroline Rose and Olive for Arnold's and like some other people,
and I, oh, god, I jamming is not really my vibe.
(22:13):
I get really overwhelmed.
Speaker 2 (22:15):
You sort of winced at the word jam. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:18):
Yeah, it's not my happy place. And I, you know,
I'm just very lack of self confidence in the kind
of I'm going to show you my prowess on my instrument.
Speaker 2 (22:30):
Okay, that sounds.
Speaker 1 (22:31):
Terrible my guitar. And so I ended up in the
corner of the room trying to play a glass in
like a jamming session.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
How did that go down?
Speaker 1 (22:43):
It was great, It was great. I knew where I
needed to be.
Speaker 2 (22:48):
So what's the what's the deal? Someone says, how does
this information get to you? Today? You will be playing
improvised music with this list of people.
Speaker 1 (22:58):
So there's a woman called Mary who organized is the
whole residency, right. She is a magnificent person, and she
just kind of gently pushes you towards a room and
goes go in there. You'll have fun and I And.
Speaker 2 (23:14):
It's the idea that your you're is it being recorded?
Are you coming up with something that.
Speaker 1 (23:19):
It's totally free from You could just be for that moment,
just for that moment. You could be making something to
perform at the end of the week. You could be
making something to maybe like record it later down the line.
You could be like, oh, I think we should start
a band, right, you know, it could be any number
of things.
Speaker 2 (23:37):
That group of people did you had you met them before? No?
Speaker 1 (23:39):
I hadn't met a single person. Oh no, I'd met
them before I walked. I'd met Neve before I walked
in the room. Everyone else i'd kind of seen the
night before.
Speaker 2 (23:50):
At dinner and they say, right, we're gonna let's let's
does someone just pick up something? And like Oli forgets
on the piano. Maybe yeah? And then what you.
Speaker 1 (24:02):
You with me?
Speaker 2 (24:03):
I was going to say, what you you certainly think?
What leads you to think I'm going to pick up
that glass?
Speaker 1 (24:10):
No. Caroline Rose, who is a creative genius, was like,
I think we should play some glasses because there were
so many glasses in each room. No, I think by
design so that we could drink water and not have
to leave the room to get.
Speaker 2 (24:24):
Water, so you're sort of imprisoned slightly.
Speaker 1 (24:28):
They pulled all the curtains down, shut the windows. No,
it wasn't even that. It's so it's so weird because
it it sounds so confusing, and it was so confusing.
All of us were kind of sat there for the
first ten minutes being like, how do we do this?
What are we doing? Who's in charge? Who starts? Who
(24:50):
are you? Like? It was it was a lot, and
it was It's it's funny because there are you know,
there are certain I guess like cultural societal things that
happening as well, which is often, well in my understanding
of it, Often the women are like, oh no, I
don't know what's happening, and then the men are like sick,
I love jamming. Let's do this, and then start and
(25:12):
then say, oh no, why don't you do something a
bit like that? You know, one one of them will
kind of take charge of the room. As it were,
sounds like.
Speaker 2 (25:19):
It's got a sort of big brother vibe of like.
Speaker 1 (25:22):
It's all all good vibes, it's all love. Yeah, it
is all love. But I was annoyed at myself for
being for not having you know, spent thirty years learning
my theory and learning my instruments better so that I
could be like, Okay, let me be in charge.
Speaker 2 (25:36):
Can you have you have you performed on Later with
Jules Holland? Yeah, no, that's coming out, that's coming up.
But you know, I always think that at the start
when they're all playing, like, you know, I don't know
if they even do that anymore, but you know, they
used to all start playing a song and he'd sort
of introduced who was going to be on the show.
(25:56):
That sounds like an anxiety dream to me. But would
you be in that situation if you had your guitar
instead of a glass sad times, then would you have
would you be like you'd know what what key to
stay in?
Speaker 1 (26:11):
I have no idea about keys. If someone told like
three chords, I could probably do it right, single notes,
could probably do it. Sing along. Yeah, fine, a glass
glass beautiful my favorite.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
Your new album will strictly be class music. Yeah. Yeah.
So this this shot of you with Killian, what was that?
What part of the festival was that? Was that like
a talk?
Speaker 1 (26:40):
No, that was part of the residency. So basically the
beauty of the residency is that everyone just kind of
meshes in together, and uh, everyone kind of ended up
in this like smoking area in the nighttime. And so
I've just been in there and we were just having
a chat. Nice sky Dreamboat looks like we chatted about
(27:00):
six music playlists and episodes because I absolutely cannot get enough.
I think they're the best.
Speaker 2 (27:08):
I went to a wedding this year in where was
she Tonado O'Connor from, I don't actually know, Bray Bray nice? Yeah,
beautiful love it Yeah, yeah, really really amazing, best wedding
I've been, well, one of the best weddings I think
I've ever been to. And I'm at the end of
my wedding career.
Speaker 1 (27:25):
Now why was it so great? Is it because it
was full of Irish?
Speaker 2 (27:29):
Yeah? I think so, because island is just amazing, isn't it?
Speaker 1 (27:33):
Full vibes all the time?
Speaker 2 (27:34):
And you spend lots of time there?
Speaker 1 (27:36):
I do.
Speaker 2 (27:36):
Yeah, why why is the wrong question because I've just
sort of said why, But like how how? Because do
you have Irish family? What made you? What made you
go there in the first place?
Speaker 1 (27:52):
It was during the pandemic.
Speaker 2 (27:53):
And remember, because I think we've spoken, we have spoken
about Ireland before. And I think the.
Speaker 1 (27:58):
Last time we did the podcast, I was living in Dublin.
I was in Dublin when we did it.
Speaker 2 (28:02):
You just moved there in a pandemic because you're like,
that sounds nice.
Speaker 1 (28:06):
Yeah, I kind of. I well, like my album was
meant to come out at the beginning of twenty twenty.
I mean everyone felt like this. I'd slightly lost control
of the landmark points of my life. Like I was like, Oh,
then the album's going to come out, Then I'm going
to tour. They we're going to do this, Like the
whole schedule had just disappeared, and so I felt like
I really needed something to kind of hold on to.
(28:27):
And I knew that the album was going to come
out some point, and one of my friends, who is
infinitely smart, was like, oh, I'm actually moving to Sweden
to go and do a filmmaking masters for two years.
I was like, that is absolutely genius to do during
a pandemic when you don't you know, necessarily know what's
(28:48):
going to happen. So I decided to start applying for
music masters. Is because I had so little confidence and
faith in my ability around music or also like being
a musician as a business because I didn't have a
manager at that point, and you know, people were starting
to ask questions to me where I was like, I
(29:09):
don't know what that is. So I was like, right,
I really need to buckle down and actually learn this
stuff before I start this career.
Speaker 2 (29:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:17):
So, yeah, I applied to a couple of music masters.
Speaker 2 (29:20):
Is one is to learn about like the biz, to
learn the sort.
Speaker 1 (29:23):
Of They had all different types. So it was learning
about like events management, learning about the business side of it,
learning about like production.
Speaker 2 (29:31):
That's the world we're in now, isn't it. As a musician,
It's not enough to just be a good musician or
a songwriter. You need to know the business side of it.
You need to know to promote yourself social media.
Speaker 1 (29:45):
Yeah, you need to know photoshop, video editors.
Speaker 2 (29:47):
All of these things that you know, even ten years
ago it would never have been in the game. Yeah,
and it's sort of crazy. Your one thing we have
in common is, I think, is a sort of hatred.
I would say maybe maybe that's not even too strong
for those social pressures that social things. Yeah. Yeah, because
(30:08):
you and I. So you started a newsletter, I mean,
did you start yours for the same reason that we
started as at a magazine, which is essentially to try
to do less social media and build a sort of
just one place where people are genuinely sort of there
and you're not beating algorithms and you're not trying to
(30:28):
like work out how to reach the people following you.
How's it going.
Speaker 1 (30:32):
I've sent one newsletter in the last two years.
Speaker 2 (30:35):
I was going to say, because I have not seen
it much and I am a subscriber, but that, you know,
I mean, that's it's another thing. Isn't it on the list?
Speaker 1 (30:45):
Another thing on the list?
Speaker 2 (30:47):
Is it not enough? Like I now have to do
a newsletter.
Speaker 1 (30:51):
Well, there's a lot of different things around it. So yeah,
it's really good to have like a newsletter subscriber base
because if you have people's emails, it means you are
not being sold anything or selling anything yourself by being
on the social media platform that is like, you know,
connecting you with these fans. But then mail Chimp, which
(31:15):
I was using, started like monetizing over a certain amount.
So now if you have over like is it like
five hundred subscribers, you have to pay. And then also
I found the setup of it really confusing. And then
also every time I sent an email, like twenty people
would unsubscribe and I can see them, my friends, Oh.
Speaker 2 (31:38):
I feel you. I'm so so we have to that point.
I'm with you, like when you send a male Because
we use mail Chimp for as as the magazine, but
we use a different, more different We've got all of
these sort of plug in, all these things working for us.
And the way the subscriptions on the magazine work through
(31:59):
this other platform called Steady, and I receive to my
personal email acca is it connected to my account? I
receive a little alert when someone has subscribed to magazine
because I have to to send them a copy of
the magazine. And it's joy. It's a joint. Someone has
subscribed to magazine. Isn't that great? But I also received
them every single time somebody cancels, and I cannot take it.
(32:24):
I cannot take the rejection at all. It's like death
by a thousand cuts every time there is one. And
I get it. There's something I've subscribed to magazines or
to other you know, services, film channels, whatever, movie and
done it for a bit and then going I'm not
really like, I'm not finding the time for this, and
(32:44):
I can say I've been that person, but I can't.
But however logical I think about it, seeing that rejection
in real time is little Daggett as hard grim, isn't it.
Speaker 1 (32:55):
Yeah, it totally is.
Speaker 2 (32:56):
And you're right. When you send something to the people
who you think, well, they've signed up for this thing,
so they want this thing, send it to them, and
then you just get ding ding ding And what are
these people?
Speaker 1 (33:10):
People leaving the see you later, miss you.
Speaker 2 (33:14):
Yeah, it's like, yeah, it's like arranging a party and
then when you turn up, some people go, ah.
Speaker 1 (33:19):
Actually, really you.
Speaker 2 (33:22):
Yeah, I'm off on WhatsApp. Do you leave voice notes
or do you type both? So here's something I found
out about. You'll probably know this because you're much younger
than I am. But I I text because that's my generation.
Speaker 1 (33:42):
Right.
Speaker 2 (33:42):
Leaving the voice note thing is new to me. And
but I left one to a friend who's Tristan, you
know Tristan. And I left him. I left him a note,
a voice note, and I think I commented in it saying, oh,
I mean this is the least cool thing in the world,
saying isn't this young and cooler? And he wrote back,
(34:09):
I think he might have left. He came back to
me basically and pointed and pointed out that apparently, if
you leave a gap at the beginning of the recording,
you're a boomer. Have you heard this?
Speaker 1 (34:24):
No, I haven't heard that. That's genius.
Speaker 2 (34:26):
Yeah, so so, and I had obviously.
Speaker 1 (34:32):
I want to make sure it's recorded except right exactly.
Speaker 2 (34:36):
And I was like, oh, man, that's so embarrassing that
I'd managed to get that so wrong. But I had
never heard that before. I'm glad you haven't, but but
I get it right. Because for my generation, when our
parents started getting mobile phones or texting or they would
look at it like it was a sort of alien
object in the hand and they wouldn't just like use
(34:56):
it like this. They would sort of hold it in
one hand and indexinger jabbing, jabbing at it. Yeah, my
mum still like that right, and this voice note gap
at the beginning. That's the younger generation's equivalent.
Speaker 1 (35:12):
That's there's so much stuff like that. Side partings, they're like, Jugy, what, yeah,
you've got to have a center barting skinny jeans, said JUGI.
Speaker 2 (35:24):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, I know that about skinny jeans,
But I mean, who's got a side parting anyway.
Speaker 1 (35:30):
I've been known just side barting.
Speaker 2 (35:34):
But that's a weird one, isn't it to say.
Speaker 1 (35:36):
Like long hair jugy on men and women?
Speaker 2 (35:40):
Anyway? Long hairld women?
Speaker 1 (35:42):
Yeah. If you notice all the gen z Is are
now cutting their hair really.
Speaker 2 (35:45):
Short like Bob's. Yeah, sure, okay, I.
Speaker 1 (35:49):
Can't really do that. I mean I could, but it
just looks terrible on me. I've done it before.
Speaker 2 (35:53):
Genuinely speaking, are you you're are, how you're dealing with
You're not? You're still very young, but like getting old.
Speaker 1 (36:00):
I think we're quite similar in age. You said that
I was a lot younger, but I don't think I
am sixty. Oh fair, I'm sixteen.
Speaker 2 (36:07):
Oh there's a difference. Yeah, yeah, Do you do you
like it? Do you like getting older?
Speaker 1 (36:13):
I fucking love getting to you? Holy fuck?
Speaker 2 (36:17):
Is that because you hated being younger? Or is it
because you're just a more measured person than I am.
Speaker 1 (36:24):
I hated being younger in my brain, obviously, I liked
it a lot more in my body because I could,
you know, do things like drink and not feel the
repercussions of it. But I just despised myself so much
and really struggled with anything to do with like self esteem.
And yeah, as I get older and older, I feel
(36:51):
like I'm learning more and more about the beauties of
life and they are not, you know, ripping yourself apart,
both physically and mentally at all times. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (37:02):
Progress, progress, This is what it's all about. One thing
I wanted to ask you about. I didn't do much
research for this. You may have sort of.
Speaker 1 (37:11):
Noticed that I actually didn't.
Speaker 2 (37:12):
But I did find an old cover you did of
Edwin Collins. Like you great, Thank you you do some
good covers. You did come for us, and you did
Golden Scans. Bye Clackson's Edwin Collins very sort of moody,
different vibe.
Speaker 1 (37:31):
Very different vibe.
Speaker 2 (37:33):
It taught me that I've been getting a lyric wrong
though in it, because you know the lyric. I've written
it down here. You know the lyric. You may you
made me acknowledge the devil in me since that song
came out? What's the devil a bit? Since that song
(37:57):
came out? I I thought he sang Edwin Collins the
devil in Me ah, and I thought that was the lyric.
And when I listened to your version of it, I
was there rubbing my hands before it got up, by thinking,
I wonder if Anna's gonna say Edwin Collins or if
(38:20):
she's gonna put her own name and make it her own. God.
And then it came to it, you didn't say Edwin
Collins at all, and I looked up the lyrics. I
realized how wrong I'd been.
Speaker 1 (38:39):
You made me acknowledge the devil in me. Oh God,
I'm talking murtiforically. Oh I love that.
Speaker 2 (38:51):
So yeah, but that is the sort of beauty of
those sort of you know, of a cover that is
so much sort of slower and.
Speaker 1 (38:58):
And measured, nunciated, quiet girl.
Speaker 2 (39:01):
Yeah, then you know you sort of learn learn the lyrics. Yea,
how should we end this?
Speaker 1 (39:07):
Let's do that thing where you have to sing this
song together looking at each other's mouths. Do you know
that one? Just make it up?
Speaker 2 (39:13):
You just make up the song, okay.
Speaker 1 (39:16):
You have to sing it together. Who's who's leading and
who's following? You lead and I'll follow. So you just
make up a song and I will try and sing
it along with you.
Speaker 2 (39:25):
I think maybe you should be making it up because
I've got no musical You should lead, okay, because I
will lead us into a wall.
Speaker 1 (39:32):
Okay are you ready?
Speaker 2 (39:34):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (39:34):
This was so far fun.
Speaker 2 (39:42):
Wait one last time? Are doing? Is it starting like
that again? You give me no?
Speaker 1 (39:49):
We hope you join the so lots of love from.
Speaker 2 (40:03):
Stew Midnight Chats is a joint production between Loud and
Quiet and Atomized Studios for iHeartRadio. It's hosted by Stuart
Stubbs and Greg Cochrane, mixed and mastered by Flow Lines,
and edited by Stuart Stubbs. Find us on Instagram and
(40:25):
TikTok to watch clips from our recordings and much much more.
We are Midnight Chats Pod. For more information, visit loudan
Quiet dot com
Let's do that thing where you have to sing the
song together looking at each other's mouths. Who's leading and
who's following? You lead and I'll follow.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
Evening, everyone, Welcome to Midnight Chat's the music interview podcast.
My name is Greg Cochrane. I'm Stuart Stubbs and on
this week's podcast, Stu, you got to speak with someone
and sing with someone. Yeah, thankfully this is the first
episode and probably the last episode in which you'll hear
me sing tell me about Anna, because listen, I don't
(00:32):
know Anna's work that well. So Anna is a relatively
new artist. She's from North London. She's released two albums
to date. Last year was our second album in Flux.
We were talking in November early November twenty twenty three,
and in this conversation you'll actually hear me reveal to
Anna where she is on our Albums of the Year list.
(00:53):
So that's a little bit of context. We were just
dealing with, like what was our top forty going to be?
Anna's album in Flux was on that list. Her previous
album was called A Common Turn, another beautiful record. Anna's
music I think if I was to describe it would
be it's very raw. It's very confessional, plays the guitar beautifully,
sings very very beautifully, and it's very emotional music. And
(01:17):
you hear it and you sort of think, oh, maybe
this person is going to be quite an intense interview,
but she's not. I've met Anna a few times and
she's such a good laugh and I think we had
a good time together recording this. We'll talk about Killian Murphy.
She met Killian Murphy last year. It's a very free
wheeling conversation. This it's exactly sort of what I've always
(01:40):
hoped Midnight Chats to be, and it was made a
little easier because Anna's very good at this. I want
to hear you singing, stew I've been waiting a long
time for this. Here is Anna be Savage on tonight's
episode of Midnight Chats. Hello, Anna, Hello, Welcome to the podcast.
(02:04):
Anna B. Savage's it's a hell of a name.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
Thank you very much.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
It's good, isn't it?
Speaker 1 (02:10):
Yeah? It's pretty good.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
You pleased with it?
Speaker 1 (02:12):
I am?
Speaker 2 (02:13):
Yeah. You get a lot of people asking about the bee.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
I do, yeah. I also yeah, I get a lot
of people not really believing that it's my actual name.
I get people congratulating me.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
A lot like I just did.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
Yeah, but like passport control, they're like, oh sick.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
So people are thinking it must be a stage name. Yeah,
because it's it's the Savage.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
It's good, it's too good.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
It's the Savage.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
The BEE, of course stands.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
For Brian, Brian famously.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
Is it common knowledge what the BEE stands for?
Speaker 1 (02:45):
It is not.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
Let's keep it that way. I when I was at school,
when I was a child, my mum had all of
these little tags, these little ribbons that said Stuart M.
Stubbs that she'd put in all of my clothes. My
brother had Peter K. Stubbs.
Speaker 1 (03:01):
Not as good, I don't think, But Peter K is
quite fun.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
That's quite fun. This was pre Peter K. Yeah. Sadly.
People in my cast, when they would ask what the
M stood for, I would always say Maurice. Oh, which
it isn't. That's not what the M stands for. Well,
that's fun, But I just thought it was more interesting
than what the M does stand for.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
This is that's kind of the exact opposite problem that
I have, which is that I have zero imagination, so
I couldn't come up with a name for my artist
version of me. So you just put the I just
put my actual initial in the middle.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
Did you what made you not just go for Anna Savage?
Because I mean, the bee is making it, isn't it?
Speaker 1 (03:44):
Yeah? The B makes it.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
Well.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
I thought it was a fun pun for a start. Yes,
it is my actual initial, and I don't know Anna.
I am Anna Savage like I've been Anna Savage since
I was little. I needed some differentiation between me and my.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
Person Yesterday I went to a fancy screening of a
movie that's not out yet. Okay about the darkness no way? Yeah,
darkness fan.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
Yes obviously. Can you see the glee in my face?
And here it's in my voice?
Speaker 2 (04:16):
You know, it's like the Darkness. I mean. The reason
I've mentioned that is because what you were just saying
about personas is really good film. By the way, I
can't rate it rate it enough. It's called Welcome to
the Darkness. I don't know when it's out.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
It's a documentary.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
It's a documentary. It's it's their spinal tap and it's
very spark tap obviously, but Justin Hawkins talks in it
about his persona and how he became quote unquote Justin
Hawkins even though that's his real name, and he talks
about how, you know, his drug addiction was essentially him
method acting his way into being a rock star.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
Yeah, I think that I feel like that would be
a real danger if if you do use completely your
real name, like mine's still very very close to my
real name, Like my family will be like, oh, Anabe
Savage is here.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
You know do they find it amusing?
Speaker 1 (05:09):
Yeah? Yeah, that you have that tiny differentiation is enough
to be like, I think I'm saved as Annabe Savage
in my sister's phone and stuff. But yeah, I can
totally see how that would especially if you're so successful,
like the Darkness and it just kind of comes out
of well, not nowhere, but like comes very quickly. There
would be you know, moments where it's like, wait, does
this real me?
Speaker 2 (05:29):
Or so you're do you feel that you put on
a persona at what points, like when you're on stage?
Speaker 1 (05:39):
Well, this is also the funny, naughty, difficult thing. It
is that I feel like the music I write is
so kind of exposing, and I try and be so
emotionally honest that it would be weird if I then
put on a persona to like perform them. Yeah, but
I guess it's like a tiny bit of it's like
(06:00):
just to give me that tiny bit of wiggle room.
I think that when I when I perform, I definitely
recently have become more myself, which is really nice. I
think in the past I used to try different things
out because I was quite nervous, whereas now I can
add in the kind of like goofiness and silliness of
(06:23):
me and not feel like it's too difficult to pair
with the music, I guess, Whereas in the past I
was just like absolutely bringing it all the time, so
I just needed something to feel like I was in control.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
Sure, Well, this like, so we've we've spoken a fair
few times. I'd say we know each other close friends.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
I would say we're friends.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
One thing I don't think we've ever spoken about, but this,
this is the origin story that I have heard. I
think about your music, okay, and you can tell me
if it's correct or not. Am I right in thinking?
There was a time where you started releasing music and
you went on a tour with father John Misty and
things were looking things were going well, and then you
(07:05):
decided I don't want to do this right now, I'm
not ready for this right now. Is there any truth
in that?
Speaker 1 (07:12):
It's adjacent to the truth, Okay for sure. So I yeah,
released music I think it was like twenty fourteen, twenty
fifteen ish, and people seemed to like it, and then
I got asked, I know, and then I got asked
to go on this tour with father John Misty, which
was obviously absolutely dreamy. Can I swear on this there's
(07:34):
been okay, cool, There's been a couple of instances where I'm.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
Like, no, go for it, that's fine.
Speaker 1 (07:39):
It was fucking dreamy and went on this.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
Tour dreamy guy, very dreamy guy, very dreamy.
Speaker 1 (07:45):
Guy, like a total sweetheart. I really he was so
kind to me that whole tour and so generous and yeah,
big love for Josh. I found myself then being like, okay, cool,
I need to write this wave because famously the music
industry is quite fickle and they want you.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
To watch the Darkness documentary.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
Okay, yes, and yeah, I want you to create stuff
a lot and be putting stuff out a lot. And
I was quite a low ebb at that point in
my kind of personal life, so I wouldn't say it
was a decision to step away from the industry. It
was more like a crushing lack of self confidence and
(08:31):
load of self loathing that kind of stopped me from
actually writing anything because I had this weird like duel
thing in my head where I was like, either I
really lucked out and managed to convince everyone that that
was good, but I can never create anything again, or
everyone's like playing this trick on me, and you know,
(08:53):
just like classic low self confidence stuff. So I didn't
write anything, and I couldn't write anything I was trying to,
and everyone kept being like, this is your one chance.
If you don't take this, then you're not going to
be able to do music, which obviously is super helpful
when you're feeling the pressure. And so yeah, basically that happened,
and I couldn't get anything out. And then one by one,
(09:16):
all the people that I knew in the industry kind
of disappeared or left or went to a different industry
or except for my wonderful booking agent, and I was
a bit like, oh, okay, well, now I don't have
any pressure and I've got myself out of this like
bad personal scenario and I've kind of built my I
guess like built my confidence, built my personality back up.
(09:38):
I'm going to try writing a fucking album. So I
wrote this album with zero pressure, zero interest, zero anything
really and then had it and then didn't they what
to do. So just kind of like, you know, did
stuff at the same time, but not really any music stuff.
(10:00):
And then I went on a music residency in Canada
and I started kind of tentatively playing it to these
people who I just like, I hadn't known them before,
but I admired them all so much that incredible musicians,
incredible creators, creatives, and they were like, oh, this is
fucking good, Like you should do something with this. I
was like, oh, OK, maybe I will. So I came
(10:23):
home after this and spent all my savings paying my
producer Will Doyle to record the album with me, and
then had the album and then I had to start
like sending out to people being like, hello, do you
remember me from me five years ago?
Speaker 2 (10:38):
But did you find that point at that point did
that sort of pressure kick back in once you were
like had the thing to sell it or had it
gone because you'd created the thing?
Speaker 1 (10:51):
It had gone because I created the thing. I just
felt so tough to myself. I genuinely was like beside
myself with glee at the fact that I had managed
to complete this thing which had previously seemed completely unfathomable
to me, like insurmountable. Didn't know how anyone would write
an album, And.
Speaker 2 (11:09):
Now you've written two in flux released earlier this year. Correct,
How's twenty twenty three B twenty.
Speaker 1 (11:17):
Twenty three has been actually quite hard?
Speaker 2 (11:19):
Has it?
Speaker 1 (11:21):
Just like personal stuff?
Speaker 2 (11:22):
Right?
Speaker 1 (11:22):
But professionally it's been good?
Speaker 2 (11:26):
I think it is a serious question. Oh well, I
guess it's serious. Yeah, is do you when you release
a record like that or any record, do you have
you personally? What is your barometer of success for you? Like?
Speaker 1 (11:43):
Oh, a serious question that makes me sound entirely unhinged. Great,
I well, you have like you have like your your
hopes for it, and then you have like your hopes
for it, so like you know, the hopes are like,
I hope I can get to make another album. I
hope this one like touches people in a similarish way
(12:07):
than the first one did. I hope people like it
as much as people seem to like the first one.
And then there's like to win the Mercury breads film
all the money.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
That's good. That should be in your mind. Though in
a way, right, I think.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
So it makes things very disappointing.
Speaker 2 (12:26):
Yeah, I remember Orlando Weeks. Do you have me met Orlando?
Speaker 1 (12:31):
I haven't met him.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
No, Lovely ma'am came on the podcast and he I
don't know if it was actually in the recording or
afterward finished, but he was saying to him, success is
I think I was probably moaning about something afterwards, and
he was saying, like, success to him is just being
able to make the next thing. If the thing that
he makes, whatever that is, allows him to make another one,
(12:56):
then it's all good and that's the goal. And then
the success of that one will be to carry on
doing the thing totally. Anything to stop you having to
get a real job, I guess is another way of
saying that, right. But I also think it's natural for
you to want to win the Mercury. I want to,
you know, yeah whatever, have those sort of plaudits, because
I think that's sort of just quite a natural part
(13:17):
of being a performer totally an artist and a creative.
Speaker 1 (13:21):
Yeah, And I think that well for me, and perhaps
this is my super naive not having got close to
any of those things at all. View But like with
those things for me would come money, I think, which
then affords me the opportunity to make stuff again in
the future, because there's this, like, you know, they're really
it does feel like you're on the edge of a
(13:42):
precipice all the time trying to be a creative and
it is like, I do think it's miraculous that this
is my job. Like it's wild to me that I,
you know, get by doing this just about and it
feels like an imense privilege being able to just express myself.
(14:04):
I mean, I've listened to enough celebrity podcasts to know
that when you win the prizes, it doesn't feel the
same way as you think it will feel when you
want to win the prizes. Yeah, yeah, but I think
there's that that mix of yeah, potentially getting welcomed into
the club to be like, maybe now you have enough
gravitas behind you to be able to sustain this for
(14:26):
that little bit longer, you know. I feel like this year,
I've complained a lot about money because it feels quite
scary being trying to go on tour and all that
kind of stuff, And I've complained to my therapist about it,
probably more more than I should have done, and at
a certain point she said, I mean, it's so good
that someone can be this honest with me and really
(14:47):
just hit the nail on the head. She basically said
to me. She was like, you know that the way
that you write music and the kind of music you're writing,
you're only writing to express yourself. You're not writing to
make money. You're not writing like you know, pop bangers
or whatever. So it's really funny that you should expect
to make loads of cash and like feel financially confident
(15:09):
when all you're doing is being like, this is my
emotions and this is my heart and this is how
I feel like. It's you know, that's an anomaly when
that happens, when those two things overlap.
Speaker 2 (15:20):
That's Radiohead.
Speaker 1 (15:20):
That's exactly my example that I always use.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
That's my go to thing.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
And that was really fun because she kind of said
that to me and I was like, huh, that's completely accurate.
Speaker 2 (15:33):
You have earned your money.
Speaker 1 (15:36):
She's so great though, she doesn't let me get away
with any of my ship any more more money. Yeah,
it's like, well, change what you're working through exactly.
Speaker 2 (15:47):
How about end of year lists? Is that something you
will be paying attention to? Do you ignore that stuff?
Speaker 1 (15:54):
I mean, it's always nice, isn't it if you end
up on an end of year list? Weirdly, I don't.
I haven't hadn't even kind of hadn't remembered that my
album came out of this year.
Speaker 2 (16:02):
It's going to be a surprise cycle.
Speaker 1 (16:04):
Yeah, exactly. I feel like the cycle for me feels
like it's finished at the moment, so it'll be fun
if it does turn up on anyone's end of your list.
Oh yea, it's November.
Speaker 2 (16:13):
It's November. It's happening. We're currently putting ours together at
the magazine. It's on the list. Oh f in flux?
Do you want to know where it is on the list? Yes,
because this podcast is going to come out. The list
will be out by the time this goes out. Oh
my god, So we have a top forty?
Speaker 1 (16:31):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (16:34):
Where do you think you'd be on the list?
Speaker 1 (16:36):
Forty?
Speaker 2 (16:37):
No? No, you're higher? Are you ready join me? Say?
Speaker 1 (16:40):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (16:42):
Number three?
Speaker 1 (16:45):
Are you fucking serious?
Speaker 2 (16:46):
Pretty good? Pretty good on the list?
Speaker 1 (16:49):
That's fucking up.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
Yeah. I think you're gonna be on a lot of
lists though.
Speaker 1 (16:53):
That's so cool.
Speaker 2 (16:55):
That's not bad? Is it? Number three?
Speaker 1 (16:56):
Fucking great?
Speaker 2 (16:57):
Shall I let you know who's who's Who's whose?
Speaker 1 (16:59):
Number?
Speaker 2 (17:00):
Who's beaten you? Number one is Lankham legit? And number
two oh we can circle back to Lancam in a second.
Actually put a pinion Lancam for a second. Number two
is Danny Brown and Jpeg Mafia. Oh they did like
a collab album.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
Okay, then it's you La Force on your top forty
unbelievably good album. If you haven't listened to it.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
I don't think I have skeleton, Okay, I mean things
could change. I can listen to that, could put that
number three maybe, yeah, that sounds good. Then just moving back.
Speaker 1 (17:34):
To forty, that's amazing. Is that why I'm getting interviewed?
Speaker 2 (17:42):
No? No, You're just You're You're just, you know, always
a allowed and quite fixture. I feel, and I thought,
you know, I thought I may as well tell you
where you are. It's tricky, isn't it? Because I feel
you've taken this news very well, fucking Jeff, because you know,
I mean, it's it's but also like I am personally
am really bad at taking anything any good news. I
(18:03):
think I'm worse at good news, like how you are
opening a present at Christmas? Oh awful, and like people
are watching you, people like.
Speaker 1 (18:11):
I cannot hide my real emotion from my face, Like
it will just show up on my face.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
Oh that's good though, so like because I'm my issue
is if someone buys me a gift that is lovely
and I love it and it's the best thing. It's
a ferrari. It's what matter what it is? Number one,
couldn't matter what it is because I'm a ten year
old constantly whatever it is, I can't EXPI I'm like
(18:38):
this sort of just this Mannikin. We went to stay
with a friend for Christmas one the one time I've
not been at my family home. I guest for Christmas.
I was in Australia, if you've heard of that, And
it was weird because you know, it's very sunny and
it's like just a different whole from thing going on.
(19:01):
And I had never met Tristan, our friend Tristan, my
wife feels friend Tristan, and I'd never met his family before.
And they did a thing where when they exchange presents,
they give you a present from like oh, this presence
for Annah, they give it to you, and then everyone
just watches you. Oh God, and you unwrap it and
(19:25):
then you talk about it. Oh yeah, this is another
thing I'm bad at. Let's say I got you this
box and you open it and we're all watching it.
There's a room people watching you open it. Would you
get it, unwrap it, and then start unpacking it from
the box, look to look at the thing in the box,
or would you unwrap it, say oh thanks, it's that microphone,
(19:48):
put that to one side and think I'm going to
I'll get it all out later.
Speaker 1 (19:52):
Yeah. I think that I probably would feel the pressure
to open it and then open it more, because that
looks like kill more into it, even if I'm super
into it.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
That is the I think you're correct, And I forget
that second stage every single time, so it looks like
I don't really I'm ungrateful because I am next. Yeah, exactly,
I unwrap it. I just put it there next to
the box of old ties. As I wrap, I'm wrapped
before every year I go into Christmas thinking need to
(20:26):
be better at that. Yeah, and I'm going to my
brothers in all this Christmas.
Speaker 1 (20:31):
I'm going to get on with your brother in law.
Speaker 2 (20:33):
I do love that I do.
Speaker 1 (20:34):
Do you have to say that because it's a podcast.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
He won't listen to. No one I know listens to this,
so no, he won't listen to this. But that no
one we do get on. But that's what I'm going
to try and do.
Speaker 1 (20:48):
Oh no, but what if it looks really insincere?
Speaker 2 (20:51):
Oh it will? You have been in Ireland recently?
Speaker 1 (21:00):
I have yet.
Speaker 2 (21:01):
I saw a photo of you sat with Killie Murphy.
Speaker 1 (21:05):
That's correct.
Speaker 2 (21:06):
He looked okay one, yeah, explain yourself. Two. In the
image he looked very enamored with what you were saying.
Speaker 1 (21:15):
So you've seen the good image. There's two images, one
where he looks like he is barely tolerating me and
the other one where he's like, oh this is funny. Yeah,
it was really fun we had I went to Sounds
from a Safe Harbor.
Speaker 2 (21:28):
This is his festival, right or he's involved.
Speaker 1 (21:31):
He's involved in it. Yeah, and the guys from a
lot of yeah, a lot of big dogs in Cork
this festival. Yeah, this one was in Cork. They've also
had them in Wisconsin and Berlin. It was an incredible experience.
It was so you have like a week's residency and
then the weekend festival and the residency is just all
(21:52):
of these gigantic, amazing musicians who are you know, unfathomably talented.
The first day, I was in a room with like
Caroline Rose and Olive for Arnold's and like some other people,
and I, oh, god, I jamming is not really my vibe.
(22:13):
I get really overwhelmed.
Speaker 2 (22:15):
You sort of winced at the word jam. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:18):
Yeah, it's not my happy place. And I, you know,
I'm just very lack of self confidence in the kind
of I'm going to show you my prowess on my instrument.
Speaker 2 (22:30):
Okay, that sounds.
Speaker 1 (22:31):
Terrible my guitar. And so I ended up in the
corner of the room trying to play a glass in
like a jamming session.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
How did that go down?
Speaker 1 (22:43):
It was great, It was great. I knew where I
needed to be.
Speaker 2 (22:48):
So what's the what's the deal? Someone says, how does
this information get to you? Today? You will be playing
improvised music with this list of people.
Speaker 1 (22:58):
So there's a woman called Mary who organized is the
whole residency, right. She is a magnificent person, and she
just kind of gently pushes you towards a room and
goes go in there. You'll have fun and I And.
Speaker 2 (23:14):
It's the idea that your you're is it being recorded?
Are you coming up with something that.
Speaker 1 (23:19):
It's totally free from You could just be for that moment,
just for that moment. You could be making something to
perform at the end of the week. You could be
making something to maybe like record it later down the line.
You could be like, oh, I think we should start
a band, right, you know, it could be any number
of things.
Speaker 2 (23:37):
That group of people did you had you met them before? No?
Speaker 1 (23:39):
I hadn't met a single person. Oh no, I'd met
them before I walked. I'd met Neve before I walked
in the room. Everyone else i'd kind of seen the
night before.
Speaker 2 (23:50):
At dinner and they say, right, we're gonna let's let's
does someone just pick up something? And like Oli forgets
on the piano. Maybe yeah? And then what you.
Speaker 1 (24:02):
You with me?
Speaker 2 (24:03):
I was going to say, what you you certainly think?
What leads you to think I'm going to pick up
that glass?
Speaker 1 (24:10):
No. Caroline Rose, who is a creative genius, was like,
I think we should play some glasses because there were
so many glasses in each room. No, I think by
design so that we could drink water and not have
to leave the room to get.
Speaker 2 (24:24):
Water, so you're sort of imprisoned slightly.
Speaker 1 (24:28):
They pulled all the curtains down, shut the windows. No,
it wasn't even that. It's so it's so weird because
it it sounds so confusing, and it was so confusing.
All of us were kind of sat there for the
first ten minutes being like, how do we do this?
What are we doing? Who's in charge? Who starts? Who
(24:50):
are you? Like? It was it was a lot, and
it was It's it's funny because there are you know,
there are certain I guess like cultural societal things that
happening as well, which is often, well in my understanding
of it, Often the women are like, oh no, I
don't know what's happening, and then the men are like sick,
I love jamming. Let's do this, and then start and
(25:12):
then say, oh no, why don't you do something a
bit like that? You know, one one of them will
kind of take charge of the room. As it were,
sounds like.
Speaker 2 (25:19):
It's got a sort of big brother vibe of like.
Speaker 1 (25:22):
It's all all good vibes, it's all love. Yeah, it
is all love. But I was annoyed at myself for
being for not having you know, spent thirty years learning
my theory and learning my instruments better so that I
could be like, Okay, let me be in charge.
Speaker 2 (25:36):
Can you have you have you performed on Later with
Jules Holland? Yeah, no, that's coming out, that's coming up.
But you know, I always think that at the start
when they're all playing, like, you know, I don't know
if they even do that anymore, but you know, they
used to all start playing a song and he'd sort
of introduced who was going to be on the show.
(25:56):
That sounds like an anxiety dream to me. But would
you be in that situation if you had your guitar
instead of a glass sad times, then would you have
would you be like you'd know what what key to
stay in?
Speaker 1 (26:11):
I have no idea about keys. If someone told like
three chords, I could probably do it right, single notes,
could probably do it. Sing along. Yeah, fine, a glass
glass beautiful my favorite.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
Your new album will strictly be class music. Yeah. Yeah.
So this this shot of you with Killian, what was that?
What part of the festival was that? Was that like
a talk?
Speaker 1 (26:40):
No, that was part of the residency. So basically the
beauty of the residency is that everyone just kind of
meshes in together, and uh, everyone kind of ended up
in this like smoking area in the nighttime. And so
I've just been in there and we were just having
a chat. Nice sky Dreamboat looks like we chatted about
(27:00):
six music playlists and episodes because I absolutely cannot get enough.
I think they're the best.
Speaker 2 (27:08):
I went to a wedding this year in where was
she Tonado O'Connor from, I don't actually know, Bray Bray nice? Yeah,
beautiful love it Yeah, yeah, really really amazing, best wedding
I've been, well, one of the best weddings I think
I've ever been to. And I'm at the end of
my wedding career.
Speaker 1 (27:25):
Now why was it so great? Is it because it
was full of Irish?
Speaker 2 (27:29):
Yeah? I think so, because island is just amazing, isn't it?
Speaker 1 (27:33):
Full vibes all the time?
Speaker 2 (27:34):
And you spend lots of time there?
Speaker 1 (27:36):
I do.
Speaker 2 (27:36):
Yeah, why why is the wrong question because I've just
sort of said why, But like how how? Because do
you have Irish family? What made you? What made you
go there in the first place?
Speaker 1 (27:52):
It was during the pandemic.
Speaker 2 (27:53):
And remember, because I think we've spoken, we have spoken
about Ireland before. And I think the.
Speaker 1 (27:58):
Last time we did the podcast, I was living in Dublin.
I was in Dublin when we did it.
Speaker 2 (28:02):
You just moved there in a pandemic because you're like,
that sounds nice.
Speaker 1 (28:06):
Yeah, I kind of. I well, like my album was
meant to come out at the beginning of twenty twenty.
I mean everyone felt like this. I'd slightly lost control
of the landmark points of my life. Like I was like, Oh,
then the album's going to come out, Then I'm going
to tour. They we're going to do this, Like the
whole schedule had just disappeared, and so I felt like
I really needed something to kind of hold on to.
(28:27):
And I knew that the album was going to come
out some point, and one of my friends, who is
infinitely smart, was like, oh, I'm actually moving to Sweden
to go and do a filmmaking masters for two years.
I was like, that is absolutely genius to do during
a pandemic when you don't you know, necessarily know what's
(28:48):
going to happen. So I decided to start applying for
music masters. Is because I had so little confidence and
faith in my ability around music or also like being
a musician as a business because I didn't have a
manager at that point, and you know, people were starting
to ask questions to me where I was like, I
(29:09):
don't know what that is. So I was like, right,
I really need to buckle down and actually learn this
stuff before I start this career.
Speaker 2 (29:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:17):
So, yeah, I applied to a couple of music masters.
Speaker 2 (29:20):
Is one is to learn about like the biz, to
learn the sort.
Speaker 1 (29:23):
Of They had all different types. So it was learning
about like events management, learning about the business side of it,
learning about like production.
Speaker 2 (29:31):
That's the world we're in now, isn't it. As a musician,
It's not enough to just be a good musician or
a songwriter. You need to know the business side of it.
You need to know to promote yourself social media.
Speaker 1 (29:45):
Yeah, you need to know photoshop, video editors.
Speaker 2 (29:47):
All of these things that you know, even ten years
ago it would never have been in the game. Yeah,
and it's sort of crazy. Your one thing we have
in common is, I think, is a sort of hatred.
I would say maybe maybe that's not even too strong
for those social pressures that social things. Yeah. Yeah, because
(30:08):
you and I. So you started a newsletter, I mean,
did you start yours for the same reason that we
started as at a magazine, which is essentially to try
to do less social media and build a sort of
just one place where people are genuinely sort of there
and you're not beating algorithms and you're not trying to
(30:28):
like work out how to reach the people following you.
How's it going.
Speaker 1 (30:32):
I've sent one newsletter in the last two years.
Speaker 2 (30:35):
I was going to say, because I have not seen
it much and I am a subscriber, but that, you know,
I mean, that's it's another thing. Isn't it on the list?
Speaker 1 (30:45):
Another thing on the list?
Speaker 2 (30:47):
Is it not enough? Like I now have to do
a newsletter.
Speaker 1 (30:51):
Well, there's a lot of different things around it. So yeah,
it's really good to have like a newsletter subscriber base
because if you have people's emails, it means you are
not being sold anything or selling anything yourself by being
on the social media platform that is like, you know,
connecting you with these fans. But then mail Chimp, which
(31:15):
I was using, started like monetizing over a certain amount.
So now if you have over like is it like
five hundred subscribers, you have to pay. And then also
I found the setup of it really confusing. And then
also every time I sent an email, like twenty people
would unsubscribe and I can see them, my friends, Oh.
Speaker 2 (31:38):
I feel you. I'm so so we have to that point.
I'm with you, like when you send a male Because
we use mail Chimp for as as the magazine, but
we use a different, more different We've got all of
these sort of plug in, all these things working for us.
And the way the subscriptions on the magazine work through
(31:59):
this other platform called Steady, and I receive to my
personal email acca is it connected to my account? I
receive a little alert when someone has subscribed to magazine
because I have to to send them a copy of
the magazine. And it's joy. It's a joint. Someone has
subscribed to magazine. Isn't that great? But I also received
them every single time somebody cancels, and I cannot take it.
(32:24):
I cannot take the rejection at all. It's like death
by a thousand cuts every time there is one. And
I get it. There's something I've subscribed to magazines or
to other you know, services, film channels, whatever, movie and
done it for a bit and then going I'm not
really like, I'm not finding the time for this, and
(32:44):
I can say I've been that person, but I can't.
But however logical I think about it, seeing that rejection
in real time is little Daggett as hard grim, isn't it.
Speaker 1 (32:55):
Yeah, it totally is.
Speaker 2 (32:56):
And you're right. When you send something to the people
who you think, well, they've signed up for this thing,
so they want this thing, send it to them, and
then you just get ding ding ding And what are
these people?
Speaker 1 (33:10):
People leaving the see you later, miss you.
Speaker 2 (33:14):
Yeah, it's like, yeah, it's like arranging a party and
then when you turn up, some people go, ah.
Speaker 1 (33:19):
Actually, really you.
Speaker 2 (33:22):
Yeah, I'm off on WhatsApp. Do you leave voice notes
or do you type both? So here's something I found
out about. You'll probably know this because you're much younger
than I am. But I I text because that's my generation.
Speaker 1 (33:42):
Right.
Speaker 2 (33:42):
Leaving the voice note thing is new to me. And
but I left one to a friend who's Tristan, you
know Tristan. And I left him. I left him a note,
a voice note, and I think I commented in it saying, oh,
I mean this is the least cool thing in the world,
saying isn't this young and cooler? And he wrote back,
(34:09):
I think he might have left. He came back to
me basically and pointed and pointed out that apparently, if
you leave a gap at the beginning of the recording,
you're a boomer. Have you heard this?
Speaker 1 (34:24):
No, I haven't heard that. That's genius.
Speaker 2 (34:26):
Yeah, so so, and I had obviously.
Speaker 1 (34:32):
I want to make sure it's recorded except right exactly.
Speaker 2 (34:36):
And I was like, oh, man, that's so embarrassing that
I'd managed to get that so wrong. But I had
never heard that before. I'm glad you haven't, but but
I get it right. Because for my generation, when our
parents started getting mobile phones or texting or they would
look at it like it was a sort of alien
object in the hand and they wouldn't just like use
(34:56):
it like this. They would sort of hold it in
one hand and indexinger jabbing, jabbing at it. Yeah, my
mum still like that right, and this voice note gap
at the beginning. That's the younger generation's equivalent.
Speaker 1 (35:12):
That's there's so much stuff like that. Side partings, they're like, Jugy, what, yeah,
you've got to have a center barting skinny jeans, said JUGI.
Speaker 2 (35:24):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, I know that about skinny jeans,
But I mean, who's got a side parting anyway.
Speaker 1 (35:30):
I've been known just side barting.
Speaker 2 (35:34):
But that's a weird one, isn't it to say.
Speaker 1 (35:36):
Like long hair jugy on men and women?
Speaker 2 (35:40):
Anyway? Long hairld women?
Speaker 1 (35:42):
Yeah. If you notice all the gen z Is are
now cutting their hair really.
Speaker 2 (35:45):
Short like Bob's. Yeah, sure, okay, I.
Speaker 1 (35:49):
Can't really do that. I mean I could, but it
just looks terrible on me. I've done it before.
Speaker 2 (35:53):
Genuinely speaking, are you you're are, how you're dealing with
You're not? You're still very young, but like getting old.
Speaker 1 (36:00):
I think we're quite similar in age. You said that
I was a lot younger, but I don't think I
am sixty. Oh fair, I'm sixteen.
Speaker 2 (36:07):
Oh there's a difference. Yeah, yeah, Do you do you
like it? Do you like getting older?
Speaker 1 (36:13):
I fucking love getting to you? Holy fuck?
Speaker 2 (36:17):
Is that because you hated being younger? Or is it
because you're just a more measured person than I am.
Speaker 1 (36:24):
I hated being younger in my brain, obviously, I liked
it a lot more in my body because I could,
you know, do things like drink and not feel the
repercussions of it. But I just despised myself so much
and really struggled with anything to do with like self esteem.
And yeah, as I get older and older, I feel
(36:51):
like I'm learning more and more about the beauties of
life and they are not, you know, ripping yourself apart,
both physically and mentally at all times. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (37:02):
Progress, progress, This is what it's all about. One thing
I wanted to ask you about. I didn't do much
research for this. You may have sort of.
Speaker 1 (37:11):
Noticed that I actually didn't.
Speaker 2 (37:12):
But I did find an old cover you did of
Edwin Collins. Like you great, Thank you you do some
good covers. You did come for us, and you did
Golden Scans. Bye Clackson's Edwin Collins very sort of moody,
different vibe.
Speaker 1 (37:31):
Very different vibe.
Speaker 2 (37:33):
It taught me that I've been getting a lyric wrong
though in it, because you know the lyric. I've written
it down here. You know the lyric. You may you
made me acknowledge the devil in me since that song
came out? What's the devil a bit? Since that song
(37:57):
came out? I I thought he sang Edwin Collins the
devil in Me ah, and I thought that was the lyric.
And when I listened to your version of it, I
was there rubbing my hands before it got up, by thinking,
I wonder if Anna's gonna say Edwin Collins or if
(38:20):
she's gonna put her own name and make it her own. God.
And then it came to it, you didn't say Edwin
Collins at all, and I looked up the lyrics. I
realized how wrong I'd been.
Speaker 1 (38:39):
You made me acknowledge the devil in me. Oh God,
I'm talking murtiforically. Oh I love that.
Speaker 2 (38:51):
So yeah, but that is the sort of beauty of
those sort of you know, of a cover that is
so much sort of slower and.
Speaker 1 (38:58):
And measured, nunciated, quiet girl.
Speaker 2 (39:01):
Yeah, then you know you sort of learn learn the lyrics. Yea,
how should we end this?
Speaker 1 (39:07):
Let's do that thing where you have to sing this
song together looking at each other's mouths. Do you know
that one? Just make it up?
Speaker 2 (39:13):
You just make up the song, okay.
Speaker 1 (39:16):
You have to sing it together. Who's who's leading and
who's following? You lead and I'll follow. So you just
make up a song and I will try and sing
it along with you.
Speaker 2 (39:25):
I think maybe you should be making it up because
I've got no musical You should lead, okay, because I
will lead us into a wall.
Speaker 1 (39:32):
Okay are you ready?
Speaker 2 (39:34):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (39:34):
This was so far fun.
Speaker 2 (39:42):
Wait one last time? Are doing? Is it starting like
that again? You give me no?
Speaker 1 (39:49):
We hope you join the so lots of love from.
Speaker 2 (40:03):
Stew Midnight Chats is a joint production between Loud and
Quiet and Atomized Studios for iHeartRadio. It's hosted by Stuart
Stubbs and Greg Cochrane, mixed and mastered by Flow Lines,
and edited by Stuart Stubbs. Find us on Instagram and
(40:25):
TikTok to watch clips from our recordings and much much more.
We are Midnight Chats Pod. For more information, visit loudan
Quiet dot com
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