May 28, 2021 • 30 mins
A new account of the alleged bombing, via a serial killer.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
We are back with a brand new, never reported account
of the alleged assassination of Congressman Nick Beget and Hail Bogs,
an account we uncovered in part because of your help
from my Heart Media. This is Missing in Alaska, the
story of two congressmen who vanished in nineteen seventy two
(00:24):
and my quest to figure out what happened to them.
I'm your host, John Wallzac. At the end of episode six,
I gave you an important task. Help me figure out
the identity of a tipster who forwarded mysterious letters to
(00:45):
the FBI. In these letters apparently contained important information about
the alleged bombing of the missing plane. I learned about
them via Freedom of Information Act request I filed with
the FBI, but I got back from the f I
was minimal and heavily redacted. The names of everyone involved.
(01:05):
The two people who exchanged the letters and the tipster
who forwarded their correspondence were blacked out for some reason,
though the FBI did not blackout the tipsters work, address,
phone number, or facts. So I gave that information to you,
and I asked you to help me identify the tipster.
One astute listener quickly realized that I made a small mistake.
(01:27):
I gave you the wrong number. My bad. I was
off by a single digit. The FBI gave me a
poor quality copy of the facts, and I mistook an
eight for a six. Anyway, the listener, who doesn't want
to be named, dug up CD rom phone directories from
the nineties. She booted up an old computer, black screen,
green letters and numbers, the type my parents had when
(01:49):
I was a kid. She punched in the number and Wola.
She figured out where the tipster worked, the First Amendment
Center at Vanderbilt University. Several other listen nurs later figured
this out too, but she was the first with that clue.
I made an educated guest about the tipster's identity. I
guess that the tipster was, in fact John segin Thaller,
(02:11):
a journalist and political activist who founded the First Amendment Center. Unfortunately,
segen Faller died. I tried to reach his son and
his secretary, but no luck, no response. So I turned
once more to my favorite research tool archives. Segen Thaller
was important, so I figured, hey, maybe his papers are
(02:33):
preserved and they are lucky for me. A Vanderbilt archivist
named Zack Johnson had just finished processing them. Zach told
me he would dig around to see what he could find.
Two weeks later he emailed me. Amazingly, Zack found the letter,
the blacked out letter the FBI gave me, except he
(02:54):
found the original, confirming that John segin Thaller was the tipster,
the person I asked you to help me find. Zach
sent me a PDF of the letter. Here. It is January.
Mr Tommy Boggs, fifty North Street, Northwest, Washington, d C.
(03:17):
To zero zero three seven. Dear Tommy, I apologize for
the delay in getting this information to you. Dolores fell
and injured her shoulder, and I've been out of the
office since we talked. Enclosed is the correspondence. The two
people involved are William Scott Day, the author of the letters.
He is a serial killer who, as I mentioned to you,
(03:38):
murdered my brother's mother in law several years ago. Lyle Jackson,
the recipient of the letters, a photojournalist who until recently
worked for our center. While did a television story on
day after he was captured, and since then they have
exchanged occasional letters. Lyle, knowing of my interest in Day,
shared these letters on the day before I phoned you.
(03:59):
The Hoover angle sounds far fetched to me. A convict
conning a convict. On the other hand, however, the insurance
motive obviously could have some basis in fact. At any rate,
I will keep you informed if there are any subsequent letters.
Best regards, John Seagan Thaller. So Segan Thaller first sent
the letters to Tommy Boggs hail Son, not the FBI.
(04:23):
Then either Segan Thaller, Boggs, or both. But I think
Segan Thaller gave the FBI copies of the letters exchanged
between William Scott Day, the serial killer and Lyle Jackson,
the journalist. Yes, this new account of the alleged assassination
comes from newly uncovered letters written by a serial killer.
(04:43):
Here's the deal. Day was in prison for multiple murders.
He stabbed, strangled, smashed in heads and slit throats. Violent guy.
He escaped prison multiple times and killed people in Tennessee, Texas,
and Arizona. Because of the Arizona mur Day ended up
for a while in a cell next to Jerry Paisley,
(05:05):
of all people. And that brings me to the second
PDF that Zach the Vanderbilt archivists. Sent Zach also found
copies of the letters Day sent Jackson. I'm about to
read them to you, but first let me note that
while I am reading most of the contents of the letters,
I'm not sharing them in their entirety. There are personal details,
(05:26):
mainly about Jackson the journalist, that are not pertinent to
this story, so I'm leaving them out. Otherwise, here you go, September,
dear lyle it's good to hear from you. Reset your
calendar to November seven. That's when my sentence sing will
take place. My lawyer wants more time to prepare for
(05:48):
my sentence saying November God, I'm never going to get
out of here. My sentencing hearing will take place on September.
My family will be here and friends too, but actual
sentence saying won't be till November seven. Your life sounds
exciting New Mexico one day, l A the next, I
(06:08):
have a fantastic story for you. My neighbor is a
small time mafia dude. He killed a big time Arian
brotherhood dude and there's a contract out on him by
the A B. Guido. My neighbor is fifty four years old.
And looking for a way out. He's talking to the
FEDS about the plane that was carrying US Congressman Hail
bogs that went down in nineteen seventy two. Cokey Roberts
(06:31):
his Hail Boggs, his daughter. Boggs was chairman of the
House Ways and Means Committee and wanted to cut the
budget of the FBI. Guido claims he placed the bomb
on the plane on the orders of his boss, who
was doing a favor for Hoover. That's the sticky part
for the FEDS. They believe a bomb was on the plane,
but don't want to believe Hoover had it done. If
and when this breaks, it will be national news. Guido
(06:55):
and the FEDS are dickering this thing out. It's pretty wild.
Guido told me the EDS would accept the story and
him if he'll drop the Hoover part. He's thinking it over.
He wants to go to federal prison instead of state prison.
It's a pretty incredible story, and I don't know how
much to believe, but I don't put anything past Hoover.
Remember you heard it here first, smile. I've been listening
(07:19):
to how the West was Lost by Ken Burns on
the local PBS station. It's outstanding. Well, my friend, I'll go.
I'll keep you posted, Take care, peace, be a good
human right when you can as always. Scott, October two,
dear Lyle, thanks for writing. It's always good to hear
(07:40):
from you. Before getting into the Guido story, let me
catch you up on my never ending saga. My sentencing
hearing has been reset for November six and seven, and
actual sentencing for the November. I won't see my family
till then. I was very bummed out over the last
second delay, but I'm over it now. I'll keep you
pos stood. Now onto Guido. He is a walking and
(08:03):
talking story. My problem is I don't know how much
is truth and how much is macho. We have to
talk through our air events, all very prison like. He
told me last night that he wasn't at liberty to say,
but the ship was going to hit the fans soon.
Here's what I know. Guido took the making of a
bomb to Alaska in nineteen seventy two. He and Danny
(08:24):
Zivinich put it together and placed aboard the plane Hail
Boggs was in. There was also a state congressman on
the plane. Guido says he got two birds with one stone.
Guido married the widow of the state congressman within a
year of the crash. The insurance policy paid off about
the time they married. He says she knew nothing about
the hit. I asked how he met her, and he
refuses to say. When the pipeline started. In seventy three,
(08:47):
he and some friends started a coke pipeline from Tucson
to Alaska. Guido bought a bar and sold coke along
with booze. He also bought a house in Alaska and Tusson.
This is where the motive gets murky. There was a
big insurance policy on the state congressman. Plus he was
very law in order, and some people wanted to run
their own man against him, or to fill his seat
(09:09):
in case of his demise. Guido is tight lipped when
it comes to his marriage or the motive for killing
the state congressman. He is very emphatic about Hoover wanting
Bog's taken out. He said the order came from Pete Lacavoli,
who was the head mafia guy in Tucson at the time.
Didn't Hoover die in nineteen seventy two, I can't remember
Guido has no reason to bullshit me. I'm an old
(09:30):
head and stories don't impress me. He is consistent in
telling me the story. He doesn't get his facts screwed up,
so I believe him. On the hill Bogg's part, his
marriage to the widow and the big insurance policy leaves
me wondering. The people who wanted to run their candidate
did and one. Guido stayed in Alaska till the pipeline
was almost finished. He got into a shooting war with
(09:52):
the Cross Brothers out of Vegas over territory for coke sales.
That's when it got too hot for him and his
marriage was over. By then, he came back to Hussan
and began blowing up businesses who wouldn't take their vending machines.
I know that is true because my investigator in the
Public Defender's office was a cop back then and says
he remembers the places being hit. A bar called Pj's,
(10:12):
a place called Paulo's Prime Rib and several beauty shops.
It was called the Dynamite Wars. The Banano family was
running Tucson by then. Guido is at court this morning,
so I can't ask him about Dateline NBC. Yet wouldn't
it be a scoop on ABC and Coke Roberts if
NBC broke the story? After all, Cokey was hail boss
daughter smile. Guido and me talk very clandestinely through the
(10:36):
air vents. We're not supposed to do that. We're neighbors,
so if we talk quietly we can get away with it.
By the way, Guido is being tried for a seventeen
year old murder. The guy he killed lost eighteen hundred
pounds of coke in an airplane crash, so Guido shot
him three times in the head. Nice guy, huh. Guido
is back and I told him about Dateline NBC and
(10:59):
he wants to talk it over with his investigator, who
has his own agenda, like writing a book. I'll let
you know what he decides as soon as possible. Until then,
take care, peace, be a good human, Be cool as always. Scott,
October three, dear lyle Guido passes on the Dateline NBC project.
(11:20):
He has so many irons in the fire it's mind boggling.
He is being investigated for murder in Alaska and elsewhere.
He says the FEDS want him to be low profile
and quiet about the bombing of Hail Boggs's plane in
exchange for letting him serve his time in another state
where the Arian Brotherhood doesn't want to kill him. Lyle,
the guy is involved up to his ass in crime,
(11:42):
but he also bullshits too. He says the FEDS want
to keep the Hoover connection quiet. Personally, I think he's
making deals with them on more stuff than just the
Bog's situation. He is fifty four, in bad health and
looking for a safe place to serve his time. He
has a hundred and sixteen years to serve right now,
so no big scoop here. I believe the Box situation
(12:04):
can't be kept quiet. Have your friend from Dateline NBC
called the U S attorney in Tucson and confront him
on the plane bombing. Who knows it might work. I'll
go now, take care, be a good human, Scott. Maybe
your friend can break the story. Guido's real name is
Jerome Max Paisley. October Dear Lyle, how goes the war?
(12:31):
Hope You're winning? Guido is pressing me about when someone
from NBC will contact him or his investigator. He is
one of those immediate gratification kind of people. He's collecting
newspaper articles from here in Alaska to show the producer.
He's biting at the bit to tell his story, and
even his lawyer and investigator are behind him. He's hoping
(12:51):
if he goes national it will help him out of
this state's prison system, where his life is worth about
two cents. He already has a hundred and sixteen years
to do and the state is trying to give him
another twenty five to life. He's fifty four, so he's
never getting out. It's a matter of where he does
the time. I'll keep this brief. I've been writing you
a lot lately. Right if you get the chance, take
(13:13):
care peace. I get sentenced November. My lawyer is cautiously optimistic.
I'm scared to hope, so I'm looking for the worst.
Be a good human later, Scott October, Dear Lyle, it's
good to hear from you. Guido is no longer my neighbor.
(13:35):
Damn it. They moved him to the pod next door. Nevertheless,
I can still get the facts to him. Your friend
at Dateline acts like a bomb would be right in
front of his face. The balls in Guido's court now,
so we'll see what happens. Guido showed me news clippings
of some of his exploits, so he's not just telling
jail house stories. He's for real. We'll see if this
pans out or not. I turned forty four on Saturday
(13:58):
and feel damn lucky. My heart feels twenty one, but
my body cracks, pops and creeks every time I move.
I've given up on pop music. I only listened to
the oldiest station now, much like Al Bundy. Well, that
covers my end. I'll keep you posted on Guido. I
don't think he's lying. Take care, peace, be a good
human Zen is my motto now as always. Scott, October
(14:24):
thirty one, dear lyle, Happy Halloween. I heard from Guido today,
so I thought i'd update you. His investigator, Bob Annenberg,
is in touch with Chris. Chris asked for more info
and Guido complied. It occurred to me that Chris depends
on Nexus too much. If it was already news old news,
it wouldn't be new news, duh. Guido wouldn't have a
(14:47):
story if it was common knowledge. This has been a
secret for a long time. Guido is now using it
to get out of the Arizona prison system. After all,
he is snitching on other people. We'll see where it goes.
I'll keep you posted. My aggravation slash mitigation hearing begins
next Monday. That's where the prosecutor presents to the judge
(15:07):
reasons why I should be killed, and my side presents
reasons why I shouldn't. My family is going to be
here from the fourth through the eight and I'm really
excited about seeing them. My sister has a sixteen week
old newborn I'll get to see. I'm a sucker for babies.
I'll keep you posted on Guido and my legal woes.
I already know my November sentencing day is going to
(15:29):
be postponed. Man, living with this type of uncertainty is
killing me. Literally, Take care, peace, Be a good human
as always, Scott, and that's it. I don't have any
more letters. Neither does Lyle Jackson, the journalist who confirmed
(15:49):
to me that he did correspond with Day for about
a year. After that, he said he stopped. The letters
got too creepy and manipulative. He tossed them in the trash.
Jackson said he has no memory of discussing the bombing
allegations with Day. Day died in two thousand and six. Okay,
(16:31):
so a ton to digest here first and foremost, via
William Scott Day, a serial killer, we now have the
third known recorded account of Paisley's bombing claim. The other
two are the transcript of the jail house interview Paisley
did with investigators in November and the report prepared by
private investigator Robert Annenberg in August. All three accounts share similarities,
(16:57):
but there are also major discrepancies between what Paisley told
investigators and what he told Day, a fellow prisoner. In
every account, Paisley said that he transported a suitcase to
Alaska and that the missing congressman's plane was bombed. He
also repeatedly cited the large life insurance payout Peggy Beggett's
received after Nick Beggett disappeared. But like I said, there
(17:20):
are major discrepancies. First, it's important to state the obvious.
Two accounts were recorded by professional investigators. The third was
recorded by a fellow prisoner, William Scott Day, who spoke
to Paisley through an air vent. While Day's letters contain
details he couldn't possibly have known without speaking to Paisley.
They also contain minor errors that seemed to be his fault,
(17:43):
not Paisley's. For example, Dave repeatedly refers to Nick Beggett
as quote a state congressman. Obviously Beggatte was a US congressman.
My best guess is that Paisley used the phrase Alaska
congressman and Dave misinterpreted it. Now that said, onto the discrepancies,
(18:03):
we have A the suitcase. B Paisley's role see Peggy
Beggatt's role and d which mob boss was behind the
bombing A the suitcase. In the first two accounts, Paisley
claimed that he did not know what was in the
suitcase he transported to Anchorage in nineteen seventy two until later.
(18:24):
In the third account, he obviously knew early on that
it contained explosives. B. Paisley's role. In the first two accounts,
Paisley said that all he did was fly the suitcase
to Anchorage. In the third account, he stated that he
helped piece together a bomb and that he and Danny
z Ivanitch put it on the congressman's plane See Peggy
(18:45):
Beggatt's role. In the first two accounts, Paisley said Peggy
visited Tucson around August nineteen seventy two and knew about
the plot. In the third, he said she had no
knowledge of the plot and d which mob boss was
behind the bombing. In the first two accounts, Paisley implicated
Joe Bonano. In the third, he said Pete Lacavoli ordered
(19:08):
the hit. So why the discrepancies? Which version is true?
Or again, is the entire story falls? Was everything? Paisley said,
a lie. My best guess is that the truth lies
somewhere in the middle, but that the third account, the
unfiltered account shared with a fellow prisoner, not law enforcement,
(19:32):
is closer to the truth. In the third account, Paisley
knew the suitcase contained explosives. That makes more sense to
me than his previous oh shucks, guys, I didn't know
what was in it statements and notice. In the third account,
Paisley was very specific, more nuanced, and saying he transported
the making of a bomb to Alaska, not already to
(19:54):
go bomb. That makes more sense to me. In the
third account, William Scott Day wrote that Paisley and Danny
Zivinich put the bomb together and quote placed aboard the plane.
Hail Boggs was in Paisley helping to finalize the bomb.
I can see Paisley helping to put it on the
missing plane. No, to my knowledge, he was in Arizona,
(20:14):
not Alaska when the plane disappeared. My best guess is
that Day misheard part of what Paisley said, but it's
just as likely that Day heard Paisley correctly and Paisley lied.
Most importantly, in the third account, Paisley claimed that mob
boss Pete Lacavoli senor not Joe Bonano, ordered the hit.
That lines up with what I speculated in episode eleven
(20:37):
tail end, And let me be clear, we finalized the
script for episode eleven, which was supposed to be our
last episode, before we got copies of the third account
Day's letters. In episode eleven, I cited several pieces of
information to support my speculation that Paisley subbed in Joe
Bonano for Pete laka Oli. In the first two accounts,
(20:58):
one all of the mob connected men in the Peggy
Paisley wedding photos the red Dot photos were primarily tied
to the lick of OLiS, not the bananas, and Paisley
and Peggy honeymoons in Mexico with two of Pete look
of Oli seniors kids, Pete Jr. And Cathy. Two. The
Conti KI, where Paisley claimed Peggy met with mob boss
(21:19):
Joe Bonano, was actually owned in part at least by
the lick of OLiS, not the Bananas. And three at
least one FBI informant witnessed Paisley with Pete lick of
Oli Sr. Only twenty seven days before the congressman disappeared,
around the same time Paisley said he flew the suitcase
to Anchorage. Now there's one final discrepancy to examine, and
(22:05):
that's Peggy Beggett's alleged role in the plot. In this case,
I tend to believe the first two accounts, and I
know that seems extremely unfair. But here's why. Something in
the third account Day's letters strikes me as odd. Here
two quotes. Quote Guido is tight lipped when it comes
to his marriage or the motive for killing the state
congressman end quote, and quote I asked how he met her,
(22:30):
and he refuses to say end quote. The official story
is that Paisley and Peggy met at the holiday in
an Anchorage in late nineteen If true, Why wouldn't Paisley
just tell that today? Why would he refuse to say
how he met Peggy? Why would he be quote tight
lipped about their marriage because usually there's nothing to hide
(22:51):
about meeting someone at a holiday inn, and he was
spilling all the other details. On the other hand, if
Paisley made up the entire thing, well still, why would
he refuse to say how he met Peggy? If everything
was a lie? If he wanted to tell Day the
most colorful story flip it around, wouldn't he just tell
Day what he told investigators that Peggy met with a
(23:13):
mob boss at the Contiki. I think Paisley regretted dragging
Peggy into the story at all, because after the first
two accounts, he never again claimed that she had any
role in the alleged bomb plot. It is possible that
Peggy had no knowledge of or incomplete knowledge of the
alleged plot. It is possible she was manipulated and used.
(23:34):
I don't know. Next, I need to address Paisley's allegations
about j Edgar Hoover. Paisley told Day that Hoover wanted
hail Bog's dead, but Hoover died in May nineteen seventy two,
five months before Boggs disappeared, something even William Scott Day
noted in his letters to me and John Seagan Dollar
(23:55):
this part sounds off. What makes sense to me is
that Paisley was entirely sure why the congressman's plane was bombed.
If his story is true, either version of it. His
role was at the least to transport a suitcase to
anchorage and at the most to help build a bomb.
But I doubt mob leaders would have looped him in
(24:15):
on their inner thinking their exact motives. Paisley wasn't omnipotent
if the story is true, It's not like he would
know every single detail. He wasn't the mastermind. He didn't
claim to be the mastermind. But obviously if he transported
a suitcase to anchorage, if he knew the missing plane
was bombed, of course he would have wondered why, which
(24:37):
could explain the Hoover angle speculation. Or again, maybe it's
all bs. Despite flaws, I still think the third account
via William Scott Day is closer to the truth than
the first two accounts. And doesn't that make sense to you?
Tube This was Jerry Paisley speaking with a fellow prisoner
through an air vent, not to investigators with a tape
(24:59):
recorder rolling. We don't even know whether or not Paisley
was aware that Day wrote everything down. Now that said,
the fact that there are discrepancies between the three accounts
that can't be explained away as transcription errors immediately and
understandably calls into question Paisley's integrity. But no surprise here.
It's not shocking at all to learn that Paisley was
(25:22):
a liar. The question, obviously, is how much of what
Paisley said in this particular case is true, how much
is false? Is it all false? Is it all true
or at least one version of it? Does the answer
lie somewhere in the middle. Something else we get from
the third account a reason why, whether or not he
(25:43):
told the truth, Paisley spoke at all, a motive. Day
wrote that Paisley wanted to transfer to a federal prison,
that he wanted to get out of the Arizona prison system,
but that never happened. Paisley remained incarcerated in Arizona until
he died in Nevertheless, we have, for the first time
a reason why Paisley either snitched or told a fairy tale. Finally,
(26:07):
we know Paisley spoke with three Arizona and Alaska investigators
plus one journalist. But did Paisley speak directly with the FBI.
Did the FBI interview Paisley? The answer here is still unclear.
Tom Davis, the Arizona investigator who knew Paisley for decades,
observed his wedding to Peggy Baggage and helped interview him
(26:28):
in is certain Paisley did speak with the FBI, and
Paisley himself said he was speaking with quote, the Feds.
But in the FBI documents I obtained, there's no proof
that the bureau interviewed Paisley directly. That said, the FBI
also excluded copies of William Scott Day's letters, which I
(26:49):
only obtained thanks to a diligent archivists. If the FBI
did interview Paisley, then the bureau has yet another account
of the alleged assassination, a fourth account. Now, obviously I
don't have the power to compel the FBI to reveal anything,
but Congress does. So if you're a lawmaker, or you
(27:10):
work on Capitol Hill or in national media, do something.
If you work in Alaska media and a shout out
again to the Anchorage Daily News, which still hasn't reported
this story. Do something. If you want us to search
port edges again with better equipment, do something. We need
your help this week. Your task is to listen to
(27:42):
all three accounts of the alleged bombing and compare them.
Go back and re listen to episode five the transcript
and to one of our bonuses, the p I Report.
Then re listen to this episode. Take notes, compare the accounts,
tell us what you think. You can reach us by
phone at one eight three three m I A tips
(28:04):
that's one eight three three six four two eight four
seven seven again one eight three three six four two
eight four seven seven, or you can reach us via
email at tips at iHeart media dot com. That's tips
t I P S at I heeart media dot com.
(28:25):
An important note, none of the people Jerry Paisley claimed
took part in or had knowledge of the alleged bombing,
Joe Binano, Pete Lakavoli, Joey A. Tarola, Danny Zivanich, Geene Fowler,
Larry Fowler, or Peggy Baggage were ever charged with or
convicted of any crimes tied to any of Paisley's allegations.
(28:45):
Peggy Baggat and Danny Zavinich declined multiple requests for an
on the record interview. Gene Fowler was unavailable for an interview.
Joe Binano, Pete Lakavoli, Joe Iya Tarrola, and Larry Fowler
are dead. Finally, I want to clarify something about which
there has been a good deal of confusion. In one
of our bonus episodes, The Last Ham, I interviewed Joe Tatum,
(29:06):
the only person alive who heard the mysterious radio transmission
the day the Congressman disappeared, the transmission in which a
man claimed to be the missing planes pilot. Twice during
the course of this show, I stated that the Air
Force believed the transmission to be a hoax. But still
we've heard from a flood of people who want to
know what I think. To be clear, I agree with
(29:28):
the Air Force. I think the transmission was a hoax.
Like the Air Force, I do believe that the HAM
operators heard a transmission, but the transmission itself was likely fake.
Ben Bowen is our executive producer. Paul Decan is our
supervising producer. Chris Brown is our assistant producer. Seth Nicholas
Johnson is our producer. Sam T. Garden is our research assistant,
(29:51):
and I'm your host and executive producer, John Wallzac. You
can find me on Twitter at at John Wallzac j
O n W A L e z A K special
thanks to Zach Johnson, the archivists who processed John Seagan
Thaler's papers, and to the special Collections and University Archives
at Vanderbilt University. Archives are amazing, y'all. This show would
(30:14):
be a hollow shell without them, and like nearly everything else,
they're facing huge financial shortfalls as a result of pandemic
budget cuts. So when possible, please support archives, either directly
through donations or vocally to your elected officials and university leaders.
Archives preserve history. They're important. I'm not sure when we
(30:37):
will be back, but trust me, we are still pursuing
this story so again, and I know you'll probably hate
me for saying this. Stay tuned. Missing in Alaska is
a co production of I Heart Media and Greenfork Media.
We are back with a brand new, never reported account
of the alleged assassination of Congressman Nick Beget and Hail Bogs,
an account we uncovered in part because of your help
from my Heart Media. This is Missing in Alaska, the
story of two congressmen who vanished in nineteen seventy two
(00:24):
and my quest to figure out what happened to them.
I'm your host, John Wallzac. At the end of episode six,
I gave you an important task. Help me figure out
the identity of a tipster who forwarded mysterious letters to
(00:45):
the FBI. In these letters apparently contained important information about
the alleged bombing of the missing plane. I learned about
them via Freedom of Information Act request I filed with
the FBI, but I got back from the f I
was minimal and heavily redacted. The names of everyone involved.
(01:05):
The two people who exchanged the letters and the tipster
who forwarded their correspondence were blacked out for some reason,
though the FBI did not blackout the tipsters work, address,
phone number, or facts. So I gave that information to you,
and I asked you to help me identify the tipster.
One astute listener quickly realized that I made a small mistake.
(01:27):
I gave you the wrong number. My bad. I was
off by a single digit. The FBI gave me a
poor quality copy of the facts, and I mistook an
eight for a six. Anyway, the listener, who doesn't want
to be named, dug up CD rom phone directories from
the nineties. She booted up an old computer, black screen,
green letters and numbers, the type my parents had when
(01:49):
I was a kid. She punched in the number and Wola.
She figured out where the tipster worked, the First Amendment
Center at Vanderbilt University. Several other listen nurs later figured
this out too, but she was the first with that clue.
I made an educated guest about the tipster's identity. I
guess that the tipster was, in fact John segin Thaller,
(02:11):
a journalist and political activist who founded the First Amendment Center. Unfortunately,
segen Faller died. I tried to reach his son and
his secretary, but no luck, no response. So I turned
once more to my favorite research tool archives. Segen Thaller
was important, so I figured, hey, maybe his papers are
(02:33):
preserved and they are lucky for me. A Vanderbilt archivist
named Zack Johnson had just finished processing them. Zach told
me he would dig around to see what he could find.
Two weeks later he emailed me. Amazingly, Zack found the letter,
the blacked out letter the FBI gave me, except he
(02:54):
found the original, confirming that John segin Thaller was the tipster,
the person I asked you to help me find. Zach
sent me a PDF of the letter. Here. It is January.
Mr Tommy Boggs, fifty North Street, Northwest, Washington, d C.
(03:17):
To zero zero three seven. Dear Tommy, I apologize for
the delay in getting this information to you. Dolores fell
and injured her shoulder, and I've been out of the
office since we talked. Enclosed is the correspondence. The two
people involved are William Scott Day, the author of the letters.
He is a serial killer who, as I mentioned to you,
(03:38):
murdered my brother's mother in law several years ago. Lyle Jackson,
the recipient of the letters, a photojournalist who until recently
worked for our center. While did a television story on
day after he was captured, and since then they have
exchanged occasional letters. Lyle, knowing of my interest in Day,
shared these letters on the day before I phoned you.
(03:59):
The Hoover angle sounds far fetched to me. A convict
conning a convict. On the other hand, however, the insurance
motive obviously could have some basis in fact. At any rate,
I will keep you informed if there are any subsequent letters.
Best regards, John Seagan Thaller. So Segan Thaller first sent
the letters to Tommy Boggs hail Son, not the FBI.
(04:23):
Then either Segan Thaller, Boggs, or both. But I think
Segan Thaller gave the FBI copies of the letters exchanged
between William Scott Day, the serial killer and Lyle Jackson,
the journalist. Yes, this new account of the alleged assassination
comes from newly uncovered letters written by a serial killer.
(04:43):
Here's the deal. Day was in prison for multiple murders.
He stabbed, strangled, smashed in heads and slit throats. Violent guy.
He escaped prison multiple times and killed people in Tennessee, Texas,
and Arizona. Because of the Arizona mur Day ended up
for a while in a cell next to Jerry Paisley,
(05:05):
of all people. And that brings me to the second
PDF that Zach the Vanderbilt archivists. Sent Zach also found
copies of the letters Day sent Jackson. I'm about to
read them to you, but first let me note that
while I am reading most of the contents of the letters,
I'm not sharing them in their entirety. There are personal details,
(05:26):
mainly about Jackson the journalist, that are not pertinent to
this story, so I'm leaving them out. Otherwise, here you go, September,
dear lyle it's good to hear from you. Reset your
calendar to November seven. That's when my sentence sing will
take place. My lawyer wants more time to prepare for
(05:48):
my sentence saying November God, I'm never going to get
out of here. My sentencing hearing will take place on September.
My family will be here and friends too, but actual
sentence saying won't be till November seven. Your life sounds
exciting New Mexico one day, l A the next, I
(06:08):
have a fantastic story for you. My neighbor is a
small time mafia dude. He killed a big time Arian
brotherhood dude and there's a contract out on him by
the A B. Guido. My neighbor is fifty four years old.
And looking for a way out. He's talking to the
FEDS about the plane that was carrying US Congressman Hail
bogs that went down in nineteen seventy two. Cokey Roberts
(06:31):
his Hail Boggs, his daughter. Boggs was chairman of the
House Ways and Means Committee and wanted to cut the
budget of the FBI. Guido claims he placed the bomb
on the plane on the orders of his boss, who
was doing a favor for Hoover. That's the sticky part
for the FEDS. They believe a bomb was on the plane,
but don't want to believe Hoover had it done. If
and when this breaks, it will be national news. Guido
(06:55):
and the FEDS are dickering this thing out. It's pretty wild.
Guido told me the EDS would accept the story and
him if he'll drop the Hoover part. He's thinking it over.
He wants to go to federal prison instead of state prison.
It's a pretty incredible story, and I don't know how
much to believe, but I don't put anything past Hoover.
Remember you heard it here first, smile. I've been listening
(07:19):
to how the West was Lost by Ken Burns on
the local PBS station. It's outstanding. Well, my friend, I'll go.
I'll keep you posted, Take care, peace, be a good
human right when you can as always. Scott, October two,
dear Lyle, thanks for writing. It's always good to hear
(07:40):
from you. Before getting into the Guido story, let me
catch you up on my never ending saga. My sentencing
hearing has been reset for November six and seven, and
actual sentencing for the November. I won't see my family
till then. I was very bummed out over the last
second delay, but I'm over it now. I'll keep you
pos stood. Now onto Guido. He is a walking and
(08:03):
talking story. My problem is I don't know how much
is truth and how much is macho. We have to
talk through our air events, all very prison like. He
told me last night that he wasn't at liberty to say,
but the ship was going to hit the fans soon.
Here's what I know. Guido took the making of a
bomb to Alaska in nineteen seventy two. He and Danny
(08:24):
Zivinich put it together and placed aboard the plane Hail
Boggs was in. There was also a state congressman on
the plane. Guido says he got two birds with one stone.
Guido married the widow of the state congressman within a
year of the crash. The insurance policy paid off about
the time they married. He says she knew nothing about
the hit. I asked how he met her, and he
refuses to say. When the pipeline started. In seventy three,
(08:47):
he and some friends started a coke pipeline from Tucson
to Alaska. Guido bought a bar and sold coke along
with booze. He also bought a house in Alaska and Tusson.
This is where the motive gets murky. There was a
big insurance policy on the state congressman. Plus he was
very law in order, and some people wanted to run
their own man against him, or to fill his seat
(09:09):
in case of his demise. Guido is tight lipped when
it comes to his marriage or the motive for killing
the state congressman. He is very emphatic about Hoover wanting
Bog's taken out. He said the order came from Pete Lacavoli,
who was the head mafia guy in Tucson at the time.
Didn't Hoover die in nineteen seventy two, I can't remember
Guido has no reason to bullshit me. I'm an old
(09:30):
head and stories don't impress me. He is consistent in
telling me the story. He doesn't get his facts screwed up,
so I believe him. On the hill Bogg's part, his
marriage to the widow and the big insurance policy leaves
me wondering. The people who wanted to run their candidate
did and one. Guido stayed in Alaska till the pipeline
was almost finished. He got into a shooting war with
(09:52):
the Cross Brothers out of Vegas over territory for coke sales.
That's when it got too hot for him and his
marriage was over. By then, he came back to Hussan
and began blowing up businesses who wouldn't take their vending machines.
I know that is true because my investigator in the
Public Defender's office was a cop back then and says
he remembers the places being hit. A bar called Pj's,
(10:12):
a place called Paulo's Prime Rib and several beauty shops.
It was called the Dynamite Wars. The Banano family was
running Tucson by then. Guido is at court this morning,
so I can't ask him about Dateline NBC. Yet wouldn't
it be a scoop on ABC and Coke Roberts if
NBC broke the story? After all, Cokey was hail boss
daughter smile. Guido and me talk very clandestinely through the
(10:36):
air vents. We're not supposed to do that. We're neighbors,
so if we talk quietly we can get away with it.
By the way, Guido is being tried for a seventeen
year old murder. The guy he killed lost eighteen hundred
pounds of coke in an airplane crash, so Guido shot
him three times in the head. Nice guy, huh. Guido
is back and I told him about Dateline NBC and
(10:59):
he wants to talk it over with his investigator, who
has his own agenda, like writing a book. I'll let
you know what he decides as soon as possible. Until then,
take care, peace, be a good human, Be cool as always. Scott,
October three, dear lyle Guido passes on the Dateline NBC project.
(11:20):
He has so many irons in the fire it's mind boggling.
He is being investigated for murder in Alaska and elsewhere.
He says the FEDS want him to be low profile
and quiet about the bombing of Hail Boggs's plane in
exchange for letting him serve his time in another state
where the Arian Brotherhood doesn't want to kill him. Lyle,
the guy is involved up to his ass in crime,
(11:42):
but he also bullshits too. He says the FEDS want
to keep the Hoover connection quiet. Personally, I think he's
making deals with them on more stuff than just the
Bog's situation. He is fifty four, in bad health and
looking for a safe place to serve his time. He
has a hundred and sixteen years to serve right now,
so no big scoop here. I believe the Box situation
(12:04):
can't be kept quiet. Have your friend from Dateline NBC
called the U S attorney in Tucson and confront him
on the plane bombing. Who knows it might work. I'll
go now, take care, be a good human, Scott. Maybe
your friend can break the story. Guido's real name is
Jerome Max Paisley. October Dear Lyle, how goes the war?
(12:31):
Hope You're winning? Guido is pressing me about when someone
from NBC will contact him or his investigator. He is
one of those immediate gratification kind of people. He's collecting
newspaper articles from here in Alaska to show the producer.
He's biting at the bit to tell his story, and
even his lawyer and investigator are behind him. He's hoping
(12:51):
if he goes national it will help him out of
this state's prison system, where his life is worth about
two cents. He already has a hundred and sixteen years
to do and the state is trying to give him
another twenty five to life. He's fifty four, so he's
never getting out. It's a matter of where he does
the time. I'll keep this brief. I've been writing you
a lot lately. Right if you get the chance, take
(13:13):
care peace. I get sentenced November. My lawyer is cautiously optimistic.
I'm scared to hope, so I'm looking for the worst.
Be a good human later, Scott October, Dear Lyle, it's
good to hear from you. Guido is no longer my neighbor.
(13:35):
Damn it. They moved him to the pod next door. Nevertheless,
I can still get the facts to him. Your friend
at Dateline acts like a bomb would be right in
front of his face. The balls in Guido's court now,
so we'll see what happens. Guido showed me news clippings
of some of his exploits, so he's not just telling
jail house stories. He's for real. We'll see if this
pans out or not. I turned forty four on Saturday
(13:58):
and feel damn lucky. My heart feels twenty one, but
my body cracks, pops and creeks every time I move.
I've given up on pop music. I only listened to
the oldiest station now, much like Al Bundy. Well, that
covers my end. I'll keep you posted on Guido. I
don't think he's lying. Take care, peace, be a good
human Zen is my motto now as always. Scott, October
(14:24):
thirty one, dear lyle, Happy Halloween. I heard from Guido today,
so I thought i'd update you. His investigator, Bob Annenberg,
is in touch with Chris. Chris asked for more info
and Guido complied. It occurred to me that Chris depends
on Nexus too much. If it was already news old news,
it wouldn't be new news, duh. Guido wouldn't have a
(14:47):
story if it was common knowledge. This has been a
secret for a long time. Guido is now using it
to get out of the Arizona prison system. After all,
he is snitching on other people. We'll see where it goes.
I'll keep you posted. My aggravation slash mitigation hearing begins
next Monday. That's where the prosecutor presents to the judge
(15:07):
reasons why I should be killed, and my side presents
reasons why I shouldn't. My family is going to be
here from the fourth through the eight and I'm really
excited about seeing them. My sister has a sixteen week
old newborn I'll get to see. I'm a sucker for babies.
I'll keep you posted on Guido and my legal woes.
I already know my November sentencing day is going to
(15:29):
be postponed. Man, living with this type of uncertainty is
killing me. Literally, Take care, peace, Be a good human
as always, Scott, and that's it. I don't have any
more letters. Neither does Lyle Jackson, the journalist who confirmed
(15:49):
to me that he did correspond with Day for about
a year. After that, he said he stopped. The letters
got too creepy and manipulative. He tossed them in the trash.
Jackson said he has no memory of discussing the bombing
allegations with Day. Day died in two thousand and six. Okay,
(16:31):
so a ton to digest here first and foremost, via
William Scott Day, a serial killer, we now have the
third known recorded account of Paisley's bombing claim. The other
two are the transcript of the jail house interview Paisley
did with investigators in November and the report prepared by
private investigator Robert Annenberg in August. All three accounts share similarities,
(16:57):
but there are also major discrepancies between what Paisley told
investigators and what he told Day, a fellow prisoner. In
every account, Paisley said that he transported a suitcase to
Alaska and that the missing congressman's plane was bombed. He
also repeatedly cited the large life insurance payout Peggy Beggett's
received after Nick Beggett disappeared. But like I said, there
(17:20):
are major discrepancies. First, it's important to state the obvious.
Two accounts were recorded by professional investigators. The third was
recorded by a fellow prisoner, William Scott Day, who spoke
to Paisley through an air vent. While Day's letters contain
details he couldn't possibly have known without speaking to Paisley.
They also contain minor errors that seemed to be his fault,
(17:43):
not Paisley's. For example, Dave repeatedly refers to Nick Beggett
as quote a state congressman. Obviously Beggatte was a US congressman.
My best guess is that Paisley used the phrase Alaska
congressman and Dave misinterpreted it. Now that said, onto the discrepancies,
(18:03):
we have A the suitcase. B Paisley's role see Peggy
Beggatt's role and d which mob boss was behind the
bombing A the suitcase. In the first two accounts, Paisley
claimed that he did not know what was in the
suitcase he transported to Anchorage in nineteen seventy two until later.
(18:24):
In the third account, he obviously knew early on that
it contained explosives. B. Paisley's role. In the first two accounts,
Paisley said that all he did was fly the suitcase
to Anchorage. In the third account, he stated that he
helped piece together a bomb and that he and Danny
z Ivanitch put it on the congressman's plane See Peggy
(18:45):
Beggatt's role. In the first two accounts, Paisley said Peggy
visited Tucson around August nineteen seventy two and knew about
the plot. In the third, he said she had no
knowledge of the plot and d which mob boss was
behind the bombing. In the first two accounts, Paisley implicated
Joe Bonano. In the third, he said Pete Lacavoli ordered
(19:08):
the hit. So why the discrepancies? Which version is true?
Or again, is the entire story falls? Was everything? Paisley said,
a lie. My best guess is that the truth lies
somewhere in the middle, but that the third account, the
unfiltered account shared with a fellow prisoner, not law enforcement,
(19:32):
is closer to the truth. In the third account, Paisley
knew the suitcase contained explosives. That makes more sense to
me than his previous oh shucks, guys, I didn't know
what was in it statements and notice. In the third account,
Paisley was very specific, more nuanced, and saying he transported
the making of a bomb to Alaska, not already to
(19:54):
go bomb. That makes more sense to me. In the
third account, William Scott Day wrote that Paisley and Danny
Zivinich put the bomb together and quote placed aboard the plane.
Hail Boggs was in Paisley helping to finalize the bomb.
I can see Paisley helping to put it on the
missing plane. No, to my knowledge, he was in Arizona,
(20:14):
not Alaska when the plane disappeared. My best guess is
that Day misheard part of what Paisley said, but it's
just as likely that Day heard Paisley correctly and Paisley lied.
Most importantly, in the third account, Paisley claimed that mob
boss Pete Lacavoli senor not Joe Bonano, ordered the hit.
That lines up with what I speculated in episode eleven
(20:37):
tail end, And let me be clear, we finalized the
script for episode eleven, which was supposed to be our
last episode, before we got copies of the third account
Day's letters. In episode eleven, I cited several pieces of
information to support my speculation that Paisley subbed in Joe
Bonano for Pete laka Oli. In the first two accounts,
(20:58):
one all of the mob connected men in the Peggy
Paisley wedding photos the red Dot photos were primarily tied
to the lick of OLiS, not the bananas, and Paisley
and Peggy honeymoons in Mexico with two of Pete look
of Oli seniors kids, Pete Jr. And Cathy. Two. The
Conti KI, where Paisley claimed Peggy met with mob boss
(21:19):
Joe Bonano, was actually owned in part at least by
the lick of OLiS, not the Bananas. And three at
least one FBI informant witnessed Paisley with Pete lick of
Oli Sr. Only twenty seven days before the congressman disappeared,
around the same time Paisley said he flew the suitcase
to Anchorage. Now there's one final discrepancy to examine, and
(22:05):
that's Peggy Beggett's alleged role in the plot. In this case,
I tend to believe the first two accounts, and I
know that seems extremely unfair. But here's why. Something in
the third account Day's letters strikes me as odd. Here
two quotes. Quote Guido is tight lipped when it comes
to his marriage or the motive for killing the state
congressman end quote, and quote I asked how he met her,
(22:30):
and he refuses to say end quote. The official story
is that Paisley and Peggy met at the holiday in
an Anchorage in late nineteen If true, Why wouldn't Paisley
just tell that today? Why would he refuse to say
how he met Peggy? Why would he be quote tight
lipped about their marriage because usually there's nothing to hide
(22:51):
about meeting someone at a holiday inn, and he was
spilling all the other details. On the other hand, if
Paisley made up the entire thing, well still, why would
he refuse to say how he met Peggy? If everything
was a lie? If he wanted to tell Day the
most colorful story flip it around, wouldn't he just tell
Day what he told investigators that Peggy met with a
(23:13):
mob boss at the Contiki. I think Paisley regretted dragging
Peggy into the story at all, because after the first
two accounts, he never again claimed that she had any
role in the alleged bomb plot. It is possible that
Peggy had no knowledge of or incomplete knowledge of the
alleged plot. It is possible she was manipulated and used.
(23:34):
I don't know. Next, I need to address Paisley's allegations
about j Edgar Hoover. Paisley told Day that Hoover wanted
hail Bog's dead, but Hoover died in May nineteen seventy two,
five months before Boggs disappeared, something even William Scott Day
noted in his letters to me and John Seagan Dollar
(23:55):
this part sounds off. What makes sense to me is
that Paisley was entirely sure why the congressman's plane was bombed.
If his story is true, either version of it. His
role was at the least to transport a suitcase to
anchorage and at the most to help build a bomb.
But I doubt mob leaders would have looped him in
(24:15):
on their inner thinking their exact motives. Paisley wasn't omnipotent
if the story is true, It's not like he would
know every single detail. He wasn't the mastermind. He didn't
claim to be the mastermind. But obviously if he transported
a suitcase to anchorage, if he knew the missing plane
was bombed, of course he would have wondered why, which
(24:37):
could explain the Hoover angle speculation. Or again, maybe it's
all bs. Despite flaws, I still think the third account
via William Scott Day is closer to the truth than
the first two accounts. And doesn't that make sense to you?
Tube This was Jerry Paisley speaking with a fellow prisoner
through an air vent, not to investigators with a tape
(24:59):
recorder rolling. We don't even know whether or not Paisley
was aware that Day wrote everything down. Now that said,
the fact that there are discrepancies between the three accounts
that can't be explained away as transcription errors immediately and
understandably calls into question Paisley's integrity. But no surprise here.
It's not shocking at all to learn that Paisley was
(25:22):
a liar. The question, obviously, is how much of what
Paisley said in this particular case is true, how much
is false? Is it all false? Is it all true
or at least one version of it? Does the answer
lie somewhere in the middle. Something else we get from
the third account a reason why, whether or not he
(25:43):
told the truth, Paisley spoke at all, a motive. Day
wrote that Paisley wanted to transfer to a federal prison,
that he wanted to get out of the Arizona prison system,
but that never happened. Paisley remained incarcerated in Arizona until
he died in Nevertheless, we have, for the first time
a reason why Paisley either snitched or told a fairy tale. Finally,
(26:07):
we know Paisley spoke with three Arizona and Alaska investigators
plus one journalist. But did Paisley speak directly with the FBI.
Did the FBI interview Paisley? The answer here is still unclear.
Tom Davis, the Arizona investigator who knew Paisley for decades,
observed his wedding to Peggy Baggage and helped interview him
(26:28):
in is certain Paisley did speak with the FBI, and
Paisley himself said he was speaking with quote, the Feds.
But in the FBI documents I obtained, there's no proof
that the bureau interviewed Paisley directly. That said, the FBI
also excluded copies of William Scott Day's letters, which I
(26:49):
only obtained thanks to a diligent archivists. If the FBI
did interview Paisley, then the bureau has yet another account
of the alleged assassination, a fourth account. Now, obviously I
don't have the power to compel the FBI to reveal anything,
but Congress does. So if you're a lawmaker, or you
(27:10):
work on Capitol Hill or in national media, do something.
If you work in Alaska media and a shout out
again to the Anchorage Daily News, which still hasn't reported
this story. Do something. If you want us to search
port edges again with better equipment, do something. We need
your help this week. Your task is to listen to
(27:42):
all three accounts of the alleged bombing and compare them.
Go back and re listen to episode five the transcript
and to one of our bonuses, the p I Report.
Then re listen to this episode. Take notes, compare the accounts,
tell us what you think. You can reach us by
phone at one eight three three m I A tips
(28:04):
that's one eight three three six four two eight four
seven seven again one eight three three six four two
eight four seven seven, or you can reach us via
email at tips at iHeart media dot com. That's tips
t I P S at I heeart media dot com.
(28:25):
An important note, none of the people Jerry Paisley claimed
took part in or had knowledge of the alleged bombing,
Joe Binano, Pete Lakavoli, Joey A. Tarola, Danny Zivanich, Geene Fowler,
Larry Fowler, or Peggy Baggage were ever charged with or
convicted of any crimes tied to any of Paisley's allegations.
(28:45):
Peggy Baggat and Danny Zavinich declined multiple requests for an
on the record interview. Gene Fowler was unavailable for an interview.
Joe Binano, Pete Lakavoli, Joe Iya Tarrola, and Larry Fowler
are dead. Finally, I want to clarify something about which
there has been a good deal of confusion. In one
of our bonus episodes, The Last Ham, I interviewed Joe Tatum,
(29:06):
the only person alive who heard the mysterious radio transmission
the day the Congressman disappeared, the transmission in which a
man claimed to be the missing planes pilot. Twice during
the course of this show, I stated that the Air
Force believed the transmission to be a hoax. But still
we've heard from a flood of people who want to
know what I think. To be clear, I agree with
(29:28):
the Air Force. I think the transmission was a hoax.
Like the Air Force, I do believe that the HAM
operators heard a transmission, but the transmission itself was likely fake.
Ben Bowen is our executive producer. Paul Decan is our
supervising producer. Chris Brown is our assistant producer. Seth Nicholas
Johnson is our producer. Sam T. Garden is our research assistant,
(29:51):
and I'm your host and executive producer, John Wallzac. You
can find me on Twitter at at John Wallzac j
O n W A L e z A K special
thanks to Zach Johnson, the archivists who processed John Seagan
Thaler's papers, and to the special Collections and University Archives
at Vanderbilt University. Archives are amazing, y'all. This show would
(30:14):
be a hollow shell without them, and like nearly everything else,
they're facing huge financial shortfalls as a result of pandemic
budget cuts. So when possible, please support archives, either directly
through donations or vocally to your elected officials and university leaders.
Archives preserve history. They're important. I'm not sure when we
(30:37):
will be back, but trust me, we are still pursuing
this story so again, and I know you'll probably hate
me for saying this. Stay tuned. Missing in Alaska is
a co production of I Heart Media and Greenfork Media.
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