Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Missing in Arizona contains graphic depictions of violence and may
not be suitable for all listeners. When I investigate these cases,
my first task is to earn the trust of victims,
loved ones, and law enforcement. I have to prove that
I'm not some bloodsucking parasite, just here for a few
days to extract trauma, microwave it and pop out watery
(00:20):
entertainment trash. So many people hate the media, and I
get it. I've been on both sides, interviewer interviewee. I've
seen media repeatedly get things wrong, and when you read,
or watch or hear something false reported as fact, of course,
you're going to lose trust. Many years ago, I quit
grad school and gave up on the idea of a
full time journalism career. I left my apartment in New
(00:43):
York and moved to a shack in Oregon. My journey
back is bizarre, a ten year odyssey, culminating in season
one Missing in Alaska. Now I'm free. Here's what I see.
I see a news industry self immolating at the altar
of objectivity, leach the value by private equity and big
tech captive to insincere bias accusations as its favorability sinks
(01:06):
into the sewer alongside Pennywise, who at this point might
be more trusted. I see media busses preach free speech
than muscle employees with opinions, or worse, hire employees who
have none, vanilla automaton scribes. I see a bipolar political media,
either sycophantic or unnecessarily pugilistic. I see hack profiteers in
(01:28):
charge of the entertainment industry, doltish gatekeepers breaking the bones
of narrative innovation. I see entertainment companies put up pride
flags while funding demagogues. I also see thousands of local
and regional reporters working hard for little pay because they
care about their communities. I hope you see them too.
In the true crime industry, I see predatory sponges who
(01:51):
soak up other people's labor and squeeze out uncredited derivative
works for clout and cash. In the process. They have
I suppose created a new genre half true crime. Take
Crime Junkie, one of the most popular shows in the world,
A show that faced repeated allegations of plagiarism, A show
that won Best Crime Podcast at this year's iHeart Podcast Awards.
(02:15):
In twenty eighteen, Crime Junkie did an episode on Robert Fisher.
Here's some of what they said.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
Robert Fisher was off work on April ninth, two thousand
and one. False and spent the day installing attic insulation
false and got an oil change false. That evening, he
took his daughter Brittany to a church event.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
False.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
Police suspect he used gasoline to help burn down his house.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
False.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
It took hours for the house to burn down.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
False.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
He frequented strip clubs.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
False.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
He had a black lab named Blue false. Who shows
up in home videos false. Mary's forerunner was wiped clean.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
False.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
There wasn't a single fingerprint, hair, or fiber on or
in it.
Speaker 1 (02:56):
False.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
Police found footprints leading from the suv to a case.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
False.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
Spelunkers searched the cave with robot cameras.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
False. I understand that I have the luxury of spending
years on a single story. I find details others miss
in this case, I don't blame Arizona reporters, the police,
or the FBI for making mistakes. They worked hard in
two thousand and one, and they're too busy wrangling today's chaos.
To focus full time on the past. On the other hand,
(03:25):
I have no problem calling out entertainers who can't even
get basic facts correct but go on to fame and
fortune by freeloading off actual journalists. They are toxic copy
and pasters who perpetuate myths and pollute case canon. They
do tangible harm, and they waste your time. You can't
solve mysteries with fake clues. For example, the footprints allegedly
(03:48):
found leading from Mary's suv to a cave fascinating if true,
but it's not. Why should you care? Well? If I
say police found footprints from the suv to a cave,
but no return tracks, you might think understandably that Robert
died by suicide in the cave. His body must be
in there somewhere. But if I say no, that's false,
(04:12):
your mind opens up. Maybe he's alive, and maybe you'll
help us look for him. The small stuff matters. Details matter.
From iHeartRadio and Neon thirty three. I'm John Walzac and
this is Missing in Arizona, the story of a man
(04:32):
who disappeared after allegedly killing his wife and kids, blowing
up their suburban home and escaping into the wilderness. Twenty
three years later, I'm hunting Robert Fisher, and I need
your help. The early confused days of this case gave
birth to myths that persist today, including the man in
(04:55):
the woods and the footprints the man in the wood.
Speaker 3 (05:00):
We received information from a witness, as citizen who had
observed what he thought to be the vehicle of mister
Fisher and the dog of mister Fisher, and in fact
saw a person that he thought was mister Fisher.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
This statement about a mystery man in the woods is incorrect.
It's based on erroneous early reports. Right now, all indications
are that he is alive.
Speaker 3 (05:21):
We know he was seen yesterday morning at eleven by
the witness, the original witness, and that he's on the move.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
Notice how a vague sighting got more specific. We know
the witness saw Fisher yesterday at eleven am. That's false, Greg,
the camper who found the suv never saw anyone in
the woods. Meanwhile, the Arizona Republic reported that pilots with
the state Department of Public Safety or DPS, also saw
the man in the woods near a cave. Quote a
(05:49):
man was spotted on the ground between the truck and
the cave. He appeared aware that the police helicopter was overhead.
It was unclear whether the man was armed or how
long he had been in the area. This is false.
The pilots didn't see anyone. My goal here is not
to humiliate law enforcement. In fact, debunking this myth makes
them look better. Early on, they were heavily criticized for
(06:13):
flying over the suv before reaching it on the ground,
possibly alerting Fisher that they found him, giving him time
to run. But since the man in the woods is
myth not fact, this is moot. I'm also not trying
to slam the Arizona Republic. Reporters covering breaking news do
their best to determine which rumors are true. Sometimes they
make mistakes. It's okay to admit that to fix it.
(06:36):
The problem is that the original false version often lives
on no matter what. This is also true of the footprints.
Speaker 4 (06:45):
The grid search covered approximately five hundred yards and a
one mile square trying to locate any footprint.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
Everyone scans dirt and snow looking for tracks.
Speaker 5 (06:55):
In fact, a helicopter search of the area spotted footprints
where Fisher's current dog were found on Friday.
Speaker 4 (07:01):
A track that has been found leaving the area where
the truck was.
Speaker 1 (07:04):
Wait, they did find footprints, Yes, they.
Speaker 4 (07:07):
Did, a mile or so south of the truck.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
A mile from the suv, not leading from the suv
to a cave.
Speaker 4 (07:14):
Going down into the reservation area. The tracks went down,
but there was no tracks coming back out.
Speaker 1 (07:19):
The size of their boot trim size thirteen.
Speaker 4 (07:22):
I don't know if it's him.
Speaker 6 (07:23):
It's not something about his physical appearance that nobody ever mentions,
as he had small feet.
Speaker 1 (07:28):
John Roden, a Fisher family friend, he had.
Speaker 6 (07:31):
Like size eight feet unusual. Really, Yeah, and you cannot
change your feet size that much.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
Mary Beth Rodin, John's wife, how sure are you that
it was size eight?
Speaker 7 (07:41):
Is that a guess?
Speaker 6 (07:42):
I'm pretty sure. If it wasn't size eight, it was
size nine, which is still small.
Speaker 7 (07:46):
It was not size thirteen.
Speaker 6 (07:47):
No, it was not even size little bitty feet.
Speaker 7 (07:50):
When they found the forerunner, they found a set of
size thirteen prints leading away from it.
Speaker 6 (07:55):
Those were not his feet.
Speaker 7 (07:57):
And let's say, I have a long list of questions,
and this was one that I just didn't think anybody
would remember his shoe size.
Speaker 6 (08:05):
Because it was weird. Yeah, we won hunting. We shared
a tent with him as like, wow, you got small feet.
Speaker 1 (08:10):
So the Rodents say Robert wore an eight to nine shoe.
In addition, the sneakers police found in his worklocker were
a nine point five. Neither is even close to at thirteen.
In the end, myth, police found Robert Fisher's footprints leading
from Mary's fore runner to a cave. Verdict. Police did
find prince size thirteen a mile away, likely left by
(08:33):
someone scavenging for elk antlers. Myth. The Arizona DPS pilots
and Greg the camper saw the man in the woods,
probably Robert Fisher. Verdict false. A few weeks after the
search ends, HeLa County Detective Brian Hay boards a helicopter
in Payson.
Speaker 5 (08:54):
And then we flew at nighttime over the entire area
looking for campfires.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
Eyes, you're in a helicopter flying under a blanket of stars,
trying to spot flickering dots in a vast obsidian forest.
Speaker 5 (09:09):
Nights up there can be rather cool. Maybe he would
have a campfire that we could pinpoint and with GPS
located five to seven them. And then we followed up
on foot and patrol vehicles. What area did you search
virtually all the woods within three or four miles five miles.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
Of the fore runner, and none of those leads spand
out no On May eleventh, two thousand and one, police
finally track down Greg, the camper who located Mary's four
runner twenty two days earlier. Greg left Arizona before they
can meet him in person, so they interview him by
phone at his brother's house in Oregon. They find him
(09:48):
highly suspicious. Why did he flee so quickly? Why did
he disappear for weeks? Did he help Robert escape? Four
days later, they get copies of security tapes from cameras
at the gas station where Greg used a payphone to
call his friends, who in turn called the police. There's
no sign of Greg or Robert on the tapes. May
(10:09):
twenty eighth, Memorial Day, A Blazing Summer begins. June twenty third,
twenty eight year old Honey Hanjor joins a flight simulator
club in Phoenix. Soon he'll pilot a plane into the Pentagon.
July tenth, a Phoenix FBI agent pens a memo warning
of the possibility of a coordinated effort by Osama bin
(10:29):
Laden to send students to the US to attend civil
aviation schools. July nineteenth, the Maricopa County Attorney's Office releases
an indictment charging Robert Fisher with murder and arson. The
longer he evades authorities, the more he melts into state lore,
a homicidal phantom wandering the wilderness alongside the likes of
the Muggy On Monster, Arizona's Bigfoot.
Speaker 8 (10:52):
His suv may have been found, but triple murder suspect
Robert Fisher has never been located. With that in mind,
he County authorities are planning a second all out man
hunt for Fisher in hopes of finding him dead or alive.
Robert Fisher is the primary suspect and the murder of
his wife and two children, whose bodies were found in
(11:14):
their burning Scottsdale home last April. Scottsdale police say the
home was rigged to explode in order to hide the homicides.
Even though Fisher hasn't been seen since the incident, Scottsdale
police believe he is alive and hiding somewhere.
Speaker 9 (11:30):
You know, we have to base our investigations on fact,
and we have no evidence to show that Rappert Fisher
is dead.
Speaker 8 (11:35):
He may or may not be living somewhere in that area.
Speaker 5 (11:38):
Nothing would please us more than to find the body.
Speaker 8 (11:41):
The search is scheduled for August and is being billed
as a quote training exercise, but it will, no doubt
focus on the numerous caves found in the area where
Fisher's SUV was discovered.
Speaker 1 (11:54):
But the thirch never takes place. The HeLa County Sheriff
cancels it, saying, quote, we've turned up no new leads.
We're satisfied that the chances he's up there are slim
to none. August eleventh, nearly seven million people watch America's
Most Wanted, which features a four minute segment on Fisher.
It generates fifty two new leads. August eighteenth, five forty
(12:18):
nine PM, a man calls the TV tip line from
Pietro's Italian restaurant in Chester, Virginia, just south of Richmond.
This is Robert Fisher. He says, you'll never catch me.
I'm glad I killed the bitch. The call is brief,
it isn't recorded. Scott Steel Detective John Kirkham tells the
media quote, some things were said in the call that
(12:39):
led us to believe it was Robert Fisher. Police in
Virginia find no proof the caller was actually Fisher. For
a time, they stake out the restaurant to no avail.
September tenth, two thousand and one, the Arizona Republic runs
a quick update quote officials now concede he meaning Fisher
may be dead. Nine to eleven. We just had a.
Speaker 10 (13:01):
Plane crash and grew up before all the World.
Speaker 5 (13:03):
Trade sent to transmit a second alarm.
Speaker 10 (13:06):
And starving little katy companies into the area.
Speaker 1 (13:09):
Yeah, Hi, hey, tho, she fell a baller from the
two to one.
Speaker 10 (13:12):
Yeah, you guys should call them Anhattan dispatch and let
him know. I had never seen so much smoke coming
through a film as I speak in the World Trades
and up by the water upon it. It's unbelievable.
Speaker 3 (13:21):
They have the art on the news.
Speaker 1 (13:22):
Stations, but they only gave a second larn there.
Speaker 10 (13:25):
It's like to set the long spee on it. They
should go to a fifth instantly with the he goes
to the side of the building. It looks like the
numerous flaws exploded out. It's it's insane right now as
somebody answer to every available ablist that they could possibly
get over there, This is going to be the event
of the century.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
Only a month after America's Most Wanted elevates Fisher to
national prominence, nine to eleven wipes him away. He falls
into a fugitive sweet spot. The post nine to eleven,
pre social media, pre smartphone, don'nut whole, federal resources and
public attention turned to terrorism. On October twenty fifth, as
the US bombs the Taliban in Afghanistan, Detective Kirkham tells
(14:09):
the Arizona Republic that Fisher is likely alive. Quote. I
don't believe that he's up in the woods. I don't
believe that he committed suicide. He was not intent on
taking his own life. His intent was to take care
of his problem and move on with his life. No remorse,
no regret. He's probably living in another state and working
at some menial job. I think that we'll probably find him.
(14:32):
It may be tomorrow, it may be years down the road.
It depends on us finding the mistake he made that
we haven't picked up on yet, or on him making
a mistake. In February two thousand and two, the FBI
(15:09):
joins the case.
Speaker 9 (15:10):
I was the first agent assigned.
Speaker 1 (15:12):
Robert Caldwell Scott Sell came to.
Speaker 9 (15:14):
The FBI to help find Inzana Probo cause to believe
he fled the state. So therefore the FBI now has
jurisdiction to assist them. If a fugitive fled the state,
it's called unwulf of flight to void prosecution. So they
came to us, sat down with their detectives. We went
through everything, developed a ton of leads, came up with
some investigative strategies, and went to work.
Speaker 1 (15:34):
Caldwell starts digging into Fisher's past, including his childhood.
Speaker 9 (15:39):
Nothing came up that was ever like he was a
trouble kid, or did drugs.
Speaker 7 (15:43):
Or killed animals.
Speaker 6 (15:45):
No, nothing at all.
Speaker 1 (15:46):
Caldwell immediately knows that the case is cooler than cool.
It's ice cold. Publicity is key. On April fourth, two
thousand and two days before the first anniversary of the murders,
he and Detective Kirkham hosts the one hour public chat
on FBI dot gov. Two months later, the bureau deploys
its most valuable pr weapon.
Speaker 11 (16:07):
Fisher is still very much a priority with the FBI.
Speaker 9 (16:11):
He's on the ten most wanted list, right along with
the likes of Osama bin Laden, Eric Rudolph.
Speaker 4 (16:16):
There is Robert William Fisher.
Speaker 1 (16:18):
At the time, Eric Rudolph, the Olympic Park bomber, is
hiding in the forested mountains of North Carolina. Bin Laden
is on the run in Afghanistan or Pakistan. His last
known location was the Tora Bora Cave complex. Rudolph is
arrested in two thousand and three. Bin Laden dies in
twenty eleven. Only Fisher remains free.
Speaker 8 (16:38):
Forty two year old Robert Fisher is a fugitive. He
is a phantom. He is a hunting figure in the
history of Arizona.
Speaker 1 (16:48):
On August seventh, two thousand and two, the Arizona Republic
runs a poll on its website, what do you think
happened to Robert Fisher escaped and is living in the US?
Eighty percent himself after the murders, nine percent still in Arizona,
seven percent died of exposure while on the run shortly
after the murders four percent. The next few years, Speed
(17:12):
by the US invades Iraq, Facebook launches, Hurricane Katrina hits
New Orleans, Kanye the Killers, and Taylor Swift break into
pop culture. Nothing much happens with the Fisher case. In
April two thousand and six. At the five year mark,
Detective Kirkham tells the Republic quote, no one believes he's
dead in a cave. We would have found some trace
(17:33):
of his body by now. Three months later, Kirkham, only
forty seven, dies of a stroke. Summer two thousand and six,
multiple serial killers stalk the Phoenix Metro, including the Baseline
Killer and the serial shooter.
Speaker 9 (17:49):
I was heavily involved in that investigation.
Speaker 1 (17:51):
Scottsdale Lieutenant Hugh Lockerbye.
Speaker 12 (17:53):
These guys running around Phoenix to shooting at people and
killing them.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
The serial shooter, not to be confused with the Phoenix
Ceial Street shooter, the Phoenix Freeway shooter, or the Scottsdale
spree shooter different cases. Ends up being two men meth
fueld roommates who kill eight people, including one in Scottsdale.
Police arrest them on August third, two thousand and six.
A month later, they identify and arrest the Baseline killer
(18:18):
with the help of Stephen Pitt, a forensic psychiatrist, who
himself is murdered in twenty eighteen by the Scottsdale spree shooter.
I don't want to give you the wrong idea Despite
a few high profile crimes, Scottsdale is for the most part,
incredibly safe. In twenty twenty three, with a population of
two hundred and forty five thousand, it had one homicide.
Speaker 12 (18:39):
It's very much a metropolitan area, just a suburb of Phoenix.
Speaker 4 (18:42):
Here we are in Phoenix, Arizona.
Speaker 3 (18:46):
Yeah, excuse me, Scott Steel, Arizona.
Speaker 5 (18:49):
Pardon me.
Speaker 1 (18:50):
For a while, the Fisher case is in limbo. Police
are busy chasing serial killers.
Speaker 12 (18:56):
But by two thousand and seven, I take it over
and I'd meet Bob call Immerse myself talking to the family.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
Members, including Mary's dad, Bill Cooper. Two years later, in
December two thousand and nine, Bill dies. April twenty third,
twenty eleven, the Arizona Republic headline FBI manhans still on
for Robert Fisher, suspect and murders in one likely is alive.
Agent Caldwell says, quote, all our evidence has been that
(19:26):
he's the kind of guy who wouldn't go kill himself.
He took a lot of belongings from the home, clothing, guns,
like he was moving himself out. None of that stuff
was found in the vehicle. He's out there hunting fishing,
chewing tobacco with a sore back. In the lobby of
the FBI's Phoenix office, a wanted poster of Fisher hangs
directly above Osama bin Laden. Nine days later, Navy seals
(19:50):
kill bin Laden in Pakistan. In April twenty twelve, the
Pacin Roundup reports that the FBI quote believes Fisher may
be living in the Blue Ridge Reservoir area as a hermit,
or squatting in a trailer cabin or an old home
in the woods. Fisher walks with an exaggerated upright walk,
has a bad back, probably has long hair, and is
(20:12):
homeless looking. In twenty fourteen, Hugh Lockerbie, then a detective,
tells the Arizona Republic Fisher is likely living somewhere out
west New Mexico, Wyoming, Montana, Arizona, even Canada, quote anywhere
where he can hunt fish keep a low profile. In
twenty sixteen, at the fifteen year mark, the FBI releases
(20:32):
ads progressed images of Fisher. There's no reason to believe
he's dead, they say. Bob Caldwell later retires, but he
remains deeply invested in this case and retains a strong
personal animosity towards Fisher.
Speaker 9 (20:45):
He thinks he's a real man's man when he's not.
He's not a ladies man. He's kind of a failure
of life. He's a bully to women. I don't think
he's got the guts to come forward. He's a piece
of shit. If he is alive, he needs to be
brought to justice. And I don't care if there's somebody
else out there that's like, well, he's good to me.
Speaker 12 (21:02):
Whatever.
Speaker 9 (21:03):
No, there's a bigger picture here now. He's going to
get his justice one day. It's going to be up
there or down there, whichever, but it's going to.
Speaker 6 (21:11):
Happen one day.
Speaker 9 (21:12):
But he needs to get his justice here first.
Speaker 1 (21:14):
In Scottsdale, Hugh Lockerby is promoted from detective to lieutenant.
He began his career as a patrol officer whose beat
included the Fisher House. In fact, he was working the
night of the murders.
Speaker 12 (21:25):
I wonder how close I was to Fisher, Like I
wish I could retrace my steps. How close did I
drive by his house? How close did I drive by
the bank?
Speaker 6 (21:33):
Did I pass him?
Speaker 12 (21:34):
When he was leaving town?
Speaker 1 (21:36):
On November third, twenty twenty one, the FBI removes Fisher
from its ten most Wanted list. According to the Associated Press,
he's only the eleventh person since nineteen fifty removed before apprehension, death,
or dismissal of charges, and that more or less brings
us to today. The current investigators are Scott Steel, Detective
John Heinzelman, an FBI special agent. Taylor Hannah tell me
(22:00):
the FBI's official position on whether or not Robert Fisher
is a lot or dead.
Speaker 13 (22:04):
There is no official position. My background is in science.
Previous to this, I was working on my PhD in biology,
so I approach this case very scientifically. There are one
hundred thousand pet theories hypotheses out there of what happened
to Fisher, and so I really wanted to approach this
case with none of those right. I wanted to re
examine all the facts and the actual evidence and see
(22:26):
what we could do with that. What I did not
want to do is come on and create any theories
or hypotheses based on just my assumptions. So I would
say the Bureau has no stance. I think we are
open to the fact that he could be dead or alive,
and that obviously we are going to try to find
him either way.
Speaker 14 (22:41):
So Fisher was on the ten most Wanted list from
twenty two to twenty twenty one. Can you talk about
the criteria for how somebody gets included on the list
and why he was removed?
Speaker 6 (22:50):
Sure?
Speaker 13 (22:50):
So the criteria typically is just how beneficial is it
going to be to that case. There are a lot
of really bad people out there. There are a lot
of people that have done crime is very similar to
Robert Fisher, right it in America, sadly, and not all
of them were on the Top ten list. He was
initially added to get his picture out there, to get
the story out there and hope someone would see him.
After twenty years, all those tips didn't lead to the
(23:12):
resolution of his case yet or to finding him. So
opposed to taking up one of those spots that could
be used for another case, That's why we decided to
take him off the Top ten.
Speaker 1 (23:20):
Agent Hannah and Detective Heinzelmann still get leads almost every week.
Speaker 12 (23:24):
Maybe there's somebody out there that knows him or helped
him along the way. Even twenty years ago. This says, well,
he called me and I gave him a ride or
I picked him up where the forerunner was, and I
drove him to flag Staff or whatever it is. But
I always thought that law enforcement was going to figure
that out, they were going to catch him, so I
didn't want to come forward. And now I'm finally saying, Okay,
I'm older, I'm going to come forward.
Speaker 1 (23:46):
I'm going to talk investigators. Ask me to emphasize this point.
If you know something, please speak up. If you had
an affair with Robert Fisher, if you helped him escape,
if you know him today and you're worried about legal culpability,
you're not the target Fisher is. Please come forward to
law enforcement or to me. In the meantime, Scottsdale and
(24:08):
the FBI are always looking for ways to develop new leads.
Speaker 13 (24:12):
For example, we geographically cluster relatives at one point to
see if there were any hot spots, and there was
one identified. There was a timeframe where people unrelated reporting
someone that matched his description in a certain area, and
that was one that really got our attention. We sent
agents is prior to me coming to the case to
interview all those people and obviously to search. This was
(24:33):
a fisherman that was transient through that area. So it's
still hard. But again you find Fisher.
Speaker 6 (24:42):
You just call that number right there. I will make
sure that.
Speaker 8 (24:45):
You know.
Speaker 13 (24:46):
I actually do not remember, just because I've gone through
so many I just remember it's town or all fishermen,
So they knew all the people coming and going, and
this was a new individual that came through town that
resembled Robert Fisher, and there were multiple reports seemingly unrelated.
It was in the US.
Speaker 1 (25:01):
As far as physical evidence, what might exist today and
what could it tell us, investigators don't know for sure
what Fisher took with him and what burned in the fire.
None of his belongings were ever located. They think he
took a thirty eight Revolver, camping supplies, clothing.
Speaker 13 (25:17):
And a bike that he did use pretty frequently was missing,
and we would have found remants.
Speaker 5 (25:22):
Of the bike.
Speaker 1 (25:23):
Up next, that.
Speaker 11 (25:26):
Is Robert Fisher's mountain bike that he gave me.
Speaker 1 (25:36):
If you like this show, please download our first two seasons,
Missing in Alaska and Missing on nine to eleven. For updates,
visit meon thirty three dot com or follow me on
Twitter at John waalzac j O n Wa l Czak.
Thanks for listening. Jim roden knew the entire Fisher family.
(26:09):
He was Robert's friend and Britney's youth pastor. His brother
John and sister in law Mary Beth are the couple
you heard earlier who remembered Robert's two size Jim, John
and Robert went hunting together. They also went camping with
their wives and kids. Brittany was even at Jim's house
two days before the murders for a sleepover with friends,
supervised by Jim's wife. So I was surprised to hear
(26:32):
that Scott.
Speaker 11 (26:32):
Steel Peede never interviewed me, real never interviewed me, And
that was the weirdest thing. It's like I knew his
daughter I spoke at the memorial. Did no never interviewed me,
never been interviewed.
Speaker 1 (26:43):
Jim met Robert in the nineties. At the time, many
people called him Bob. What did Jim call him?
Speaker 11 (26:48):
Not Bob, It's Robert. I toy with people's names just
to poke m around. So I'm Pastor Cupcake, and my
wife after this whole thing went down, she was half
convinced that we were going to hear him outside our
window whispering a pastor Cupcake, like he'd be on the
lamb and maybe come to our house. And say pastor cupcake.
So there was that kind of silly relationship.
Speaker 6 (27:11):
Eating all the.
Speaker 11 (27:12):
Cupcakes that Mary made and him calling me pastor cupcake.
He got a kick out of that. Lying in a
tent and I'm a little bit of a youngest child
shock jockey, and I think I was mimicking a gang
banger hunting. We're going to sleep and I'm just talking
inner city talk without the F bomb word.
Speaker 12 (27:29):
But he was rolling.
Speaker 11 (27:31):
He just thought gangstas going hunting, and I had him
rolling it because he loved that good old boy Americana military,
redneck outdoorsman Copenhagen, tobacco, fishing, cabellas you got it pass
pro shop though it wasn't there at the time. You know,
had his own little fishing boat and pickup truck, and
(27:52):
he was a jim rat and he would ride that
mountain bike.
Speaker 1 (27:56):
The missing bike, every day.
Speaker 11 (27:58):
He was putting miles on that mountain bike. I happened
to own that mountain bike about a year before this
whole thing went down. He gave me that mountain bike
as a gift, which was I was stunned. But I
had a mountain bike stolen my first year marriage. It
was a brand new Specialized stump jumper calm left it
behind at my parents' house. They were broken into, got
a phone call, bike's gone. I used the insurance money
to pay my seminary bill. Robert knew that story, and
(28:20):
this is probably five years later. He invited me over
to the house one night and he said, hey, I.
Speaker 6 (28:25):
Want to give you something.
Speaker 11 (28:26):
I want to give you this, and I'm like, whoa.
I remember when he bought that bike and just going, oh,
that is a nice mountain bike. Never said anything to him,
but he knew the story me losing my mountain bike,
and so he gave me that bike. And that was
probably a year or a year and.
Speaker 1 (28:40):
A half before the murders, somewhere.
Speaker 11 (28:42):
Around nineteen ninety nine. At the time, it was just like,
no way, I feel really loved by this guy. I've
invested in his life spiritually and is encouraging him in
the ways of the Lord in his marriage. And this
seemed to be him just saying, hey, thanks, peace, I.
Speaker 1 (28:57):
Do we go to his garage.
Speaker 11 (28:59):
That is that is Robert Fisher's mountain bike that he
gave me some pretty good shape, yeah, aluminum. That was
the top of the line Specialized mountain bike, and that
was probably a twenty eight hundred dollars.
Speaker 1 (29:11):
Bike, about fifty four hundred dollars today. So this is
the bike that the FBI thinks is missing.
Speaker 11 (29:17):
Probably, but he gave it to me a year before
he did this thing.
Speaker 14 (29:20):
You still write it.
Speaker 1 (29:22):
Yeah, we head back inside and speak of salvation. Can
Robert Fisher be redeemed in the eyes of his God?
Speaker 11 (29:29):
Absolutely, eternally forgiven and redeemed absolutely? That is the scriptures,
and that is the Jesus that we proclaim. As far
as the debt to society, that's a different set of ethics.
It's the Ted Bundy story. Ted Bundy claims to have
fully confessed, repented with remorse, and received Jesus as personal
Lord and savior. But the next day he's going to
(29:51):
the electric chair. And I'm fine with that set of ethics.
Isaiah fifty three. Surely he has borne our griefs and
the pain that we've taken on from other people sinning
against us, but also our personal expressions of sin and sinfulness.
He carried that to the cross as God incarnate. And
so if there's not hope for a murderer, there's not
(30:11):
hope for anyone. You can be forgiven eternally, but there
will be consequences. In the best story is that you go,
man up, turn yourself in, let the judges sort that out.
Cast your soul upon the grace of God. Let him
sort out your soul and your crimes. And the Lord
is merciful and forgiving for the repentant soul.
Speaker 14 (30:28):
Do you feel like it's possible for him to be
redeemed if he lives an alternative life and never comes
forth and.
Speaker 11 (30:35):
Pay no, no, Because that's a secret. Nothing ever gets better.
Festering in the darkness. That's evidence of an unrepentant heart.
A repentant heart pulls it out into the light. They
want to live before God and man like, even if
they've got to pay the price. I did this, I'll repay.
What does restitution look like? I can't make restitution, but
I'm going to have to be taken out, so capital
(30:57):
punishment is You.
Speaker 14 (30:57):
Know, if he surface today, would you be willing to
meet with and council?
Speaker 11 (31:01):
One hundred percent?
Speaker 12 (31:02):
I've known that, and I go.
Speaker 11 (31:04):
I'd visit him. I'd visit pretty much anyone in prison. Absolutely.
Speaker 14 (31:07):
If he's out there, will you speak to him spiritually
about where he stands now and what he has to
do to find reduction.
Speaker 11 (31:16):
The simple path forward is First John one nine. If
we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to
forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
When we bring ourselves out into the light and we confess,
and which means say the same thing about it that
God says about it. Almost leg at oh is the Greek.
Just say, admit it. It's sin, it's wrong, it's detestable.
(31:39):
It's an infinite, eternal violation of God's goodness and holiness.
And I stand condemned. No matter what the law the
courts do to you. To find forgiveness before a righteous
and loving judge running in this lifetime, that gets you nothing,
just slight delay in judgment day which relative to each
(32:00):
it's like that's a spit in the ocean. So come
clean before it's too late. Confess your sin, Come out
into the light, face up to what you did. Find
redemption before the Lord. I would certainly visit him, say, man,
tell me all about it. I don't hate you as
an image bearer. We've all done terrible things. This is extreme,
but in terms of needing a redeemer, a savior. We're
(32:21):
on eagle ground before the foot of.
Speaker 1 (32:22):
The cross, Jim, and I know this message isn't for everyone.
It's for an audience of one. Robert. If you're listening,
if you believe in God, if you believe in Hell,
if you don't want to go to Hell.
Speaker 11 (32:35):
Come forward, come into the light.
Speaker 1 (32:40):
Next time, I'm missing in Arizona.
Speaker 7 (32:42):
It's eleven fifty one am on a Tuesday, and we're
looking for some mysterious shock in the woods in Arizona.
Speaker 1 (32:50):
You can reach us by phone at one eight three
three new tips. That's one eight three three six '
three nine eight four seven seven, by email at tips
at iHeartMedia dot com, tip s at iHeartMedia dot com,
online at neon thirty three dot com, or on Twitter
at John Wallzac, j O, n W A. L. Czak.
(33:14):
Paul Duckan is our executive producer. Chris Brown is our
supervising producer. Hannah Rose Snyder is our producer. Paul Gemperlin
is our researcher. Ben Bolan is a consulting producer. And
I'm your host and executive producer, John Wallzac Crime Junkie
statements voiced by Noel Brown. Cover art by Pam Peacock,
Neon thirty three. Logo designed by Derek Rudy. Our intro
(33:34):
song is Utopia by Ruby Cube. Please download the first
two seasons of our show, Missing in Alaska and Missing
on nine to eleven, and if you're so inclined, give
us a five star rating. Missing in Arizona is a
co production of iHeartRadio and Neon thirty three.