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October 2, 2024 42 mins

Robert loses control and spirals into a violent decline.

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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Missing in Arizona contains graphic depictions of violence and may
not be suitable for all listeners. This episode also discusses suicide.
You can reach the National Suicide and Crisis Lifeline at
nine to eight eight. His final days and hours that
April are murky. He'd been suffering from pain for a
long time and drugging himself to dull it. There was

(00:21):
a brief golden moment in the early nineties after his
daughter was born, but an uneasy piece gave way to
spiraling volatility. He was used to that. He came from
a broken home, a child of divorce. In the end,
he was alone. Someone thought they saw him at a bar,
but that sighting is unconfirmed. We don't know what happened
in his final hours as they wound down, though he

(00:44):
made a choice burn out, don't fade away, exit in
a flash. No one heard the gunshot. I used to
live in a building in Seattle called the Okay Hotel.
It was a famous music venue until two thousand and one,
when an earthquake damaged it. Later it was converted into
affordable apartments and artists studios. When I moved to Seattle,

(01:06):
I made so little money I qualified to live there.
My ex and I signed a lease, then broke up,
but stayed for a bit. The day after we broke up,
my brain was a cauldron of depression, anxiety, and cabin fever.
Outside lay a perfect summer day, sunny, low seventies, A
breeze blew in off Puget Sound. I decided to walk

(01:27):
across the city to Kurt Cobain's house. This is where
he died by suicide in April nineteen ninety four. As
a kid, even now I related relate to Cobain. He
wasn't my generation, but what does it matter. I love
his music. I loved the idea of him more a
loner with mental health issues, dedicated to art who stood

(01:48):
up for the downtrodden, troubled but gentle, empathetic kind, the
nineties icon who said I feel your pain and meant it,
and we felt his. When someone like that made they
make everyone like them feel less alone. Living in Seattle,
I'd often pass bits of Nirvana history, the bar Cobain
might have visited right before he died, Linda's tavern, the

(02:11):
motel where he used to shoot up heroin, the Marco Polo.
I didn't even have to leave my building to see
a bit of his history. The Okay Hotel is where
Nirvana premiered smells like teen Spirit in April nineteen ninety one.
Twenty years later, when I moved in, the stage was gone,
but I figured out where it stood in what became
my building's trash room. This bit of music history was

(02:33):
where I dumped my garbage. Honestly, I think Kurt would approve.
My ex moved out. I made friends and went to
concerts and games and art shows and clubs. Back home alone,
I'd take out the trash down an elevator to this
little room where a stage once stood, where an artist
once stood, I'd pause. We can never hold the anarchy

(02:57):
of change, that permanent impermanence, in anything but a brief abeyance.
With all our might. The best we can do is
slow it down, watch it approach frame by frame. Often
we can't even do that. It speeds toward us, a
towering tsunami of shadows that will consume us, a menacing
specter that never lets us forget who's in control. Sometimes

(03:19):
it's unpredictably benevolent. Often it's not. It can demonstrate bipolarity
in the extreme rewarding us with riches material and immaterial,
and torturing us at the same time. That's how a
little boy from Aberdeen, Washington grows into a global icon,
all the world his stage, while simultaneously dealing with addiction

(03:40):
and depression and dying at the end of a needle
and a gun. That's how a little boy in Arizona
grows into a man of more modest success a wife,
two kids, a house, a job at the Mayo Clinic
Hospital in Phoenix, while simultaneously fighting his demons. The story
of Kurt Cobain is one of a man who's pain
never stamped out his humanity. The story of Robert Fisher

(04:02):
is one of a man who's pain crystallized into a
brutal act of violence. One self immolated, one immolated others.
What separates you, I hope, from both of them is
how you handle change. Isn't this what divides our society?
How we handle change. Those of us who have seen
the glory wanta martin reverse. Those of us who never

(04:24):
reached it want to push forward. One side looks in
a mirror and seeks to restore an unrestorable stasis. The
other punches a hole in that mirror and claws forward
through glass. We play an interminable game of tug of war,
forcing change, reacting to it. This is the fault line
of our times. At this pivot point in history, the

(04:45):
forces of progress and the forces of reaction are engaged
in a ferocious battle. Islam speaks of two jihads. You
likely know one of them an external war, not the
other an internal war. A siren calls out to your demons.
Ask yourself, who's in control you? The demons? The story

(05:06):
of Kurt Cobain is one of spiraling decline. The story
of Robert Fisher is one of spiraling decline. The story
of America I Fear is one of spiraling decline. Kurt
died by suicide. Robert killed his wife and kids, burned
down their house, and fled. In the end, who was
in control Kurt or his demons? Robert or his demons?

(05:29):
Is suicide or murder? A final exercise of control, of
agency or the loss of it? Do you die by
suicide or commit it? Who's in control now you or
your demons? America's better angels or the demons of decline?
From iHeartRadio and Neon thirty three, I'm John Walzac and

(05:52):
This is Missing in Arizona, the story of a man
who disappeared after allegedly killing his wife and kids, blowing
up their bourbon home, and escaping into the wilderness. Twenty
three years later, I'm hunting Robert Fisher, and I need
your helping. The Fall of the House of Fisher begins

(06:14):
in January nineteen eighty five in Barrego Springs, California, a
tiny arid town between San Diego and the Salton Sea.
After three years in the Navy, Robert gets a job
here as a firefighter and emt. He and Mary get
married in Arizona in November nineteen eighty four. She follows
him back to California. The seed of their demise, the

(06:35):
first flap of the butterflies Wings, arises only two months
later January nineteen eighty five. Ronald Reagan has sworn in
for a second term. Michael Jackson, Cindy Lauper, and others
record We Are the World. In Brego Springs, Mary Fisher,
twenty two, settles into married life. The honeymoon phase begins.
Robert is a hero in her eyes and his A

(06:57):
lean twenty three year old with brownish blonde hair, and
blue eyes a firefighter. The honeymoon phase ends. Robert got
what he wanted Mary, and then a friend tells me
the costume came off. Isolated in rural California, Robert tightens
his grip. He owns Mary. She's his wife. He's in control.

(07:18):
Control is everything for Robert. It's how he shows the
world himself that he's a man. It's how he deals
with the anarchy outside. He can't control the world, fine,
he can control his wife. He can build a domestic
castle in which he alone is king. Yet even the
best constructed castle has weak points. In January nineteen eighty five,

(07:41):
the anarchy breaks in. This is when Robert injures his
back on the job, a seed of chaos that will
destroy him. He responds to a car accident. Someone flipped
their car and rolled down a hill. Robert climbs down
and pulls the victim out of the wreckage. He carries
them up to the road, and in the process, he
blows out multiple discs in his back. This dramatically affects

(08:04):
his future. He needs spinal surgery. He can no longer
do the job he loves. He reaches a settlement with
the fire department medical retirement or workers comp or something
so here. He is twenty three back injury, chronic pain,
limited job options. He and Mary decide to return to Arizona,
first Phoenix, then Scottsdale. Robert attends community college in nineteen

(08:28):
eighty seven. He starts a new career as a respiratory therapist.
He still gets to be a hero, kind of just
standing at a hospital instead of racing into fires. He
and Mary move into twenty two to twenty three north
seventy fourth place in Scottsdale in January nineteen eighty eight,
Newcastle fresh start. That April, Mary gives birth to their

(08:48):
first child, Brittany, and in September nineteen ninety their second, Bobby.
The late eighties and early nineties speedby with only one
notable incident. Robert shoots a dog May eleventh, nineteen eighty nine.
This account is based on police reports, interviews with neighbors,
and details from the Arizona Republic. Around three PM, as

(09:09):
Robert leaves for work, he sees a stray pit bull.
It's beefy seventy pounds of muscle and growling. Robert's dog, Ruger,
a black lab, runs to it. The pit bull strikes.
The dogs fight. Robert runs inside, grabs a pistol and
shoots the pit bull, which staggers off, leaving a trail
of blood. Police and animal control show up. Robert says

(09:31):
he has no regrets. The pit bull was killing Ruger
and it was an imminent danger not only to kids
on the street, but also kids at a nearby school
about to let out for the day. Police and media
later used this incident to paint Robert as a dog
shooting psycho. In June two thousand and one, after the murders,
police say Robert orchestrated the dog fight so he could

(09:51):
shoot the pit bull, but that's not accurate or fair.
One neighbor sees the pit bull, pulls his kids inside
and calls nine one one before the shooting. Another Paul
is home at the time, asleep. The commotion wakes him up.
He goes outside ask Bob, what the heck's going on here?

Speaker 2 (10:09):
I mean it was self defense because that pitbull shreds
his dog.

Speaker 1 (10:13):
The pit bull menaced the neighborhood for weeks. Combing through
Fisher family videos, I find this clip from April twenty ninth,
nineteen eighty nine, fifteen days before the shooting. Listen closely,
like Robert, what does the pit bull look like? A
little bit like a box of a little bit like
a boxer, but thinner face dog. I'm scared to death

(10:37):
of that dog, So I think we can safely say
the pit bull was a credible threat. This is a
great example of how a fact can be used to
paint a misleading portrait. Which of the following is true
man shoots pitbull to protect his dog and local children
or unhinged maniac shoots dog. In December nineteen eighty nine,

(11:20):
Hollywood releases a movie called Cha Devil forty eight percent
on Rotten Tomatoes. Meryl Street plays Wait for It. Mary Fisher,
a romance novelist who runs off with a guy named Bob.
Roseanne Barr plays Bob's wife, Ruth. Ruth seeks revenge. Using
gas as an accelerant, she blows up Bob's house in
a massive explosion. I found this by accident while searching

(11:44):
for an article on the pit bull shooting. I didn't
understand at first why there were so many results for
Mary Fisher and nineteen eighty nine. She Devil is about
a woman who loses control and chooses to deal with
it in a black comedy deranged way, I imagine, and
it was cathartic for women to see violent retribution play
out with the classic roles reversed. There's a bubbling anger

(12:07):
out there, women beaten down literally and metaphorically, who just
aren't gonna take it anymore. I once worked as an
editor for Microsoft. I saw in real time which topics
had max clickbait potential puppies, celebrities, sex, and wives killing
their husbands. I put up something about a Pakistani woman
who killed her husband and cooked him in a pot.

(12:29):
She claimed he tried to molest their daughter. Headline wife
cook's husband. My bosses were pissed, fair enough. Not a
judgment call I would make today, but it did numbers anyway.
The nineties the end of History, smash Mouth, Blockbuster, OJ,
You've Got Mail. As the nineties progress, Robert Fisher's back

(12:49):
pain worsens. In nineteen ninety nine, on the eve of
Y two K, he sees a masseuse. At the time,
the Phoenix Metro has a ton of massage parlors that
are in fact front for prostitution. In April nineteen ninety nine,
scott Steel police raid a parlor five minutes from the
Fisher house. In November nineteen ninety nine, Masa police conduct
a sting in which officers allow sex workers to touch

(13:12):
their genitals. According to the Arizona Republic. In April two thousand,
scott Steel police raid another parlor ten minutes from the
Fisher House. It's unclear Robert knows he'll be offered sex. Nonetheless,
in nineteen ninety nine, he and a masseuse have a
sexual encounter at a hotel five minutes from the Fisher house.
This is a pivotal moment in his demise. The House

(13:34):
of Fisher falls faster now. We previously reported that Robert
may have had an affair with a co worker in
the mid nineties. Even if true, Mary never finds out
about it. She does find out about this one though.
In August nineteen ninety nine, Robert writes her a letter confessing.
He expresses remorse and says he understands if she wants

(13:54):
to separate. He tells her he's leaving for thirty days,
retreating to a cabin.

Speaker 3 (13:58):
In the woods.

Speaker 1 (13:59):
He can that if she does want to break up,
he's going to commit suicide. This is about fidelity, not sex.
But sex has been problematic for the Fishers. Robert wants
it every single day. Mary doesn't. I could see at eighteen,
but at forty, her friend tells police, who wants to
have sex every day? Robert just wants to prove that

(14:19):
he can. Mary says. Mary doesn't enjoy it, quote dishes laundry. Sex.
But it's not a big deal, she says, quote just
ky jelly and five minutes. She wants to be a
good wife. Sex is quote a small price to pay.
Robert has always felt insecure and inadequate. He tells a
friend he married up. He's trying to prove he's a man,

(14:42):
but he can't please his wife. Sex with Robert is
a five minute chore. Robert needs to prove he's a man, though,
He takes supplements to boost his testosterone. According to his
friend Jim Rodin.

Speaker 3 (14:53):
Whether it was the creatine or whatever supplement, he goes,
you know, just gives you that boost a testosterone to
piss you law to push the bar up one more frickin' time.
So he had that kind of whoah, tough guy that
he loved, loved to foster in him.

Speaker 1 (15:09):
Another friend, Ken tells police that Robert has a quote
sexual problem a wandering eye. A third says Robert struggled
with porn during his navy days. Temptation in nineteen ninety nine,
if not earlier. Robert succumbs. He confesses that infidelity to
Mary and takes time off work. He drives to a
cabin on Hawley Lake, four hours away, and he waits

(15:31):
for Mary to reach out to him. Instead, she ignores him.
This is not going to plan. He's not in control.
He calls her, asking her to come up to the lake.
She consults his friend Ken, a pastor. Fearing for her safety,
Ken advises her not to go. Mary stays in Scottsdale.
Three days later, Robert comes home. He apologizes, He buys

(15:53):
her a ring. He seems to feel genuine remorse, but
he's also practical. He knows he's on the edge of divorce,
so he seeks help from friends, from God.

Speaker 3 (16:03):
He felt terrible. Jim Rodin felt dirty, felt condemned his
childhood faith and the conscience that it developed. He knew
that he was dirty and caught. He knew that it
could cost him his marriage. He knew that it could
severely damage his children.

Speaker 1 (16:19):
What follows is a false spring Robert attends to hers
religiously and participates weekly in immen's ministry. For the first time,
Mary sees this stubborn man make an effort to change himself,
not her or the world.

Speaker 3 (16:33):
There was a season there where Mary was thankful and
stunned at the quality of person she saw he could be,
And for about a year the marriage began to thrive.
Robert was even reading the scriptures to his kids. Somewhere
in there, something changed. He started to drift again.

Speaker 1 (16:52):
By October two thousand, six months before the murders, a
switch flips. Everyone notices a shift in Robert's behavior. Holl's
a coworker that he's in pain. His back is hurting again,
making matters worse. In November nineteen ninety nine, he also
injured his knee while playing football in a park. Robert
quote Tor Stuff, a friend says October two thousand, Robert

(17:14):
William Fisher, aged thirty nine, in pain. But nothing can
control him, damn it, not even his health. He goes hunting.
On the way he spots an elk on the side
of the road. He gets out and shoots it. He
guts it and tries to load it into the bed
of his truck, but he can't. His pain is in control,
not him. Mary confides to friends, including Mary Beth Rodin,

(17:38):
that she's scared and so is Robert, because.

Speaker 4 (17:40):
He was facing potential surgery for his back.

Speaker 1 (17:43):
This terrifies Robert. He's worried surgery will paralyze him, and
he knows a paralyzed life is a difficult life. His
close friend, a neighbor, was paralyzed in a freak accident.
One day, Robert sees this man fall out of a chair.
He has to help the man's son lift him on up.
He later says, quote, it was like deadlifting four hundred pounds.

(18:04):
So what should Robert do? He's in pain, but he's
petrified of surgery, of paralysis, career ending disability, total loss
of control. He starts to withdraw from church, friends, the gym.
In December two thousand, he stops working out. He's constantly
popping pills, percocet, Perkidan, ballium. He seems to be addicted.

(18:26):
Friends later question whether or not his pill habit affects
his mental state. In the lead up to the murders,
let me pause for a second and talk about pain.
In twenty eighteen, I had two failed root canals that
left me in pain for months, facial pain, nerve pain.
I lost feeling in part of my tongue, It affected
my speech. No doctor would help me. They all thought

(18:48):
I wanted pills, which I didn't. I remember sitting at
home watching daytime TV. Is there anything more depressing? So
many pain commercials, all targeting people like me. Nothing instills
a greater appreciation for a normal, boring life than an
extended period of pain. Thankfully, I found an amazing dentist

(19:08):
and a talented oral surgeon. I got better. But what
about the people who don't, The people with unsolvable pain,
Kurt Cobain and his stomach, Robert Fischer and his back.
We can't just tell them to avoid drugs and suffer. Thankfully,
we seem to be at the dawn of a new
golden age of medicine, driven in part by AI. In January,
a Boston company announced an experimental drug VX five four

(19:32):
eight that appears highly effective in relieving certain types of
acute pain. Scientists are also developing stem cell treatments and
experimental nerve stimulation devices. It's alluring to consider the impact
this kind of innovation might have on society. Maybe somewhere soon,
a musician with stomach pain chooses to live a father
with back pain doesn't spiral into murder. If you like

(20:04):
this show, please download our first two seasons, Missing in
Alaska and Missing on nine to eleven. For updates, visit
neon thirty three dot com or follow me on Twitter
at John Waalzac jo N wal Czak. Thanks for listening.

(20:35):
December two thousand, Robert gets sick with what he says
is either a urinary tract infection UTI or prostatitis. Police
later speculate that he actually caught a sexually transmitted infection
or STI, which would indicate he cheated on Mary again,
which would likely lead her to divorce him. January two
thousand and one. Mary complains to Robert that he's letting

(20:57):
himself go. His muscle tone is down. Maybe this seems
mean given his back pain, but not when you consider
how he treats Mary, dictating how many slices of pizza
she can have, locking her out of the house, forcing
her to walk because he doesn't want a fat wife.
In that context, I say to Mary, good for you.
It's an example of Mary's standing up for herself. January twentieth.

(21:21):
George W. Bush is inaugurated president. January twenty seventh. Robert
pawns an expensive nine millimeter handgun for a lesser quality
thirty eight. This is the thirty eight that'll disappear after
the murders. Do me a favor if you own one.
Check the serial number. We're looking for a snubnose five
shot thirty eight serial number CEC four nine two four

(21:44):
CEC four nine two four. February two thousand and one,
Mary's friend who doesn't want to be named, visits and
stays with the Fishers. She sees Robert popping pills and
tells him he needs to schedule back surgery. He says
he's scared that if he he does, he'll end up paralyzed.
February fifteenth, Robert speaks to his dad for the final time.

(22:07):
Late February or early March, Robert visits Don's Sports Shop
in Scottsdale, a storewear Over the years, he's purchased rifles, ammo,
and camping gear. It's unclear what he buys today, if anything.
March two thousand and one, Robert and his friend Ashley's arsty,
their spouses and their kids spend a weekend together at
a cabin near Whispering Pines, ninety miles north of Scottsdale.

(22:31):
Robert drinks bourbon, chews tobacco, and teaches Ashley's young son
how to fish. He and Mary seem normal. However, not
long after the trip, Ashley hears a rumor that Robert
isn't coming home. Some nights sometime in March, Robert attends
a parent teacher conference at Suppie Middle School with Miss Honey,
Britney's social studies and math teacher. Mary doesn't attend.

Speaker 5 (22:53):
So we were on the ESL block English as a
Second Language. We had multi lingual students, Spanish. I had
a rocky student and during that parentidge conference I was
talking to him and I was explaining her grades in
my class and what we were doing. And then he said,
why is she in these classes with these immigrants or
these Mexicans? And I said, this is the English as

(23:15):
a Second Language blob, why is she there. I don't
want her. I want her moved, I want her way
from those And I remember being very off put by that.

Speaker 1 (23:23):
Miss Honey is later the second to last person to
see and speak with Robert, hours before the murders March fifth,
a fifteen year old gunman shoots and kills two classmates
and injures eleven others plus two staffers at Santana High
School in Sante, California. March tenth, one month until the murders,
Bobby Junior participates in the Iwana Olympics, a Christian sporting event,

(23:47):
with friends including Brock Anderson. Brock sends me a photo
of him, Bobby, and eleven other boys standing in a
group in red T shirts wearing medals. Some make funny faces,
some look away. Bobby stares directly at the camera. March fourteenth,
Robert Phil's prescriptions for perkindan an opioid painkiller, diazepam, an

(24:08):
anxiety medication, Celebrex, an anti inflammatory drug, and cyclo benzaprene,
a muscle relaxant. Sometime mid to late March, Mary's friend
Kim Davidson stops by the Fisher House unannounced.

Speaker 2 (24:22):
I was off work for some reason, so I decided
to just go pop in and visit her. At first,
I went by the Bible study that we would have
been at had I not been working, and everyone said
she didn't show up that day, which is very unusual
because she was always there, and so I ran over
to by her house see if she was sick or something.
She answered the door and was almost nervous. She didn't

(24:42):
invite me in, which was very unusual. She just kind
of stood and bought the door. And then she said
that she'd hurt her hand, and Robert wanted her to
go to the emergency room to get a look tickn
at it. I don't even know if he was home
at the time. So I said, do you want me
to drive you there, because you've got your hand, I'll drive.
She says, no, no, no, I'm fine. I'm fine. And
that was the last time I saw her.

Speaker 1 (25:01):
Do you remember any other time that you stopped by
her house that she did not invite you in? Never
did you see her hand injury.

Speaker 2 (25:09):
I vaguely remember it, but not really. I know she
was holding her hand.

Speaker 1 (25:13):
There's no way to tell for sure how Mary injured
her hand, but it's hard to listen to Kim's account
and not suspect it was during a fight with Robert,
which would indicate a rapid deterioration in their relationship. No
one I or the police interviewed, no matter how much
they hated Robert reported seeing any sign of physical abuse
on Mary or the kids. Ever, no weird cuts or

(25:35):
bruises or anything. Mary was proud and private. She could
have hidden it, but she confided other embarrassing things to
family and friends, like Robert's fling with the masseuse. She
never told anyone that he was physically violent standing in
Mary's doorway. Kim knows something's wrong.

Speaker 2 (25:52):
More than the hand. It was her demeanor. Now that
I think back, it could have been fear that I
was sensing from her. But I even went home after
that and told my husband, I said, I don't know
what's going on with Mary. I thought, well, maybe she's
mad at me about something, just because of the way
she reacted.

Speaker 1 (26:06):
Sometime in mid to late March, Robert stops by Mary's
office unannounced, which is out of the norm. According to
Mary's boss and friend, Lori Greenbeck, It's part of a
pattern Lourie notices leading up to the murders.

Speaker 6 (26:18):
So he had to take some time off work because
he had some kind of kidney infection or utah or something.
And I could tell he was in trouble with Mary
because he had bought a truck that she didn't know
anything about. He just came to the office and wanted
to show her this truck.

Speaker 1 (26:36):
Later, Robert shows up again on foot.

Speaker 6 (26:39):
So our office was right off a green belt between
where we lived and where they lived, and so he
had walked up with the kids to ride.

Speaker 4 (26:47):
Home with Mary. And so that was just something he
would never do.

Speaker 1 (26:52):
Being a chauvinistic Robert is king, and when you're king,
you don't go to your wife. She comes to you.
Obedient wife, obedient children.

Speaker 6 (27:01):
He was very controlling of their whole family, not just Mary,
but the kids. Like he wouldn't let Britney sell Girl
Scout cookies, even though Mary was the Girl Scout cookie mom.
But Britney was not allowed to sell Girl Scout Why
you know, Oh, he just thought it looked like begging.

Speaker 1 (27:18):
Late March, three weeks until the murders, Robert speaks for
the final time with his younger sister Jean. He tells
her he bought a new truck. He says his back
pain is quote bearable. At work, Robert appears stressed and paranoid,
quiet and serious, withdrawn He ruminates about how life would
have been different if his parents didn't divorce when he

(27:40):
was a kid. March twenty second, Robert calls a friend
in San Diego to check on his wife, a teacher
at Santana High School, where the shooting took place two
weeks ago. It's one of two connections Robert has to
the school. He has another friend who works there too,
a baseball coach named Bob. One of Robert's friends knew
the shooter. The other knew one of the kids killed.

(28:01):
Robert tells a coworker that the shooter was bullied repeatedly
quote you know how long can a kid go on
being bullied like that? Inspired by the shooting, the band
Pod will later release the number one song Youth of
the Nation. Friday, March thirtieth, eleven days until the murders.
Robert and Mary have the day off. They load Robert's

(28:23):
quad an ATV into the back of his truck and
head into the wilderness. Three people, Mary's dad, a friend,
and a neighbor later tell police about the trip. The
friend doesn't know where Robert and Mary go. The dad
says they go into the desert. The neighbor says they
go up in the mountains near young When Bobby gets
home from school, Robert and Mary are still out. They

(28:44):
spend the entire day together, and by Mary's account, they
have a good time. This is important for two reasons. First,
it shows that Robert and Mary are on at least
somewhat good terms today, eleven days before the murders. Second,
if they are near young, they're not far from where
police later find Mary's SUV. Saturday, March thirty, first, ten

(29:06):
days until the murders, Robert and Mary attend a wedding
in Sedona, two hours north of Scottsdale. When I learn
about this, alarm bells go off in a good way.
The most recent photo I have of Robert is from
December nineteen ninety nine. I don't have any of him
taken after that. Neither do the police. If Robert and
Mary attend a wedding, they're likely caught on film by

(29:27):
a professional photographer only ten days before the murders. The
problem is I know nothing except that they attend a
friend's wedding in Sedona on March thirty first, two thousand
and one. That's it, not a lot to work with.
I spend months trying to figure out whose wedding no
one knows. Then I hear back from one of Mary's

(29:47):
friends who finally tells me the name of the bride
and groom, Colleen called Kalb and Dave Strutt. I reach
out to Dave and Colleen separately. They're no longer married.
To my surprise, Dave calls back quickly. Yes, they did
have photos of Robert and Mary at the wedding. He
thinks they're in storage for months. We text. He goes

(30:10):
to the storage unit. He can't find any photos of
the wedding none. He doesn't know what happened to them.
I hear back from Colleen indirectly through her sister, who
tells me Colleen lost her wedding photos in some kind
of storage mishap. The sister has a few photos, but
none of the fishers. No one knows the name of
the wedding photographer, and no one remembers the name of

(30:32):
the venue. So, my beloved audience, I'm throwing you a
hail Mary. Did you attend the wedding? Did you photograph it?
If so, please contact us. At the wedding, Robert and
Mary appear to get along. They seem fine when it ends.
They drive to the town of Prescott, pr E Scott

(30:52):
to visit Robert's mom, Jan They stay the night at
someone's house, probably Jans Sunday, April first, first nine days
until the murders. Before heading home to Scottsdale, Robert and
Mary drive north from Prescott. To Mary's surprise, Robert makes
an unexpected stop at a quote survivalist compound. This has
never been reported until now. Mary later tells her friend

(31:16):
Mary Beth Rodin about it.

Speaker 4 (31:17):
I remember Mary coming over and saying, yeah, the wedding
was awesome, but Robert had to go to this dumb
survivalist place.

Speaker 1 (31:23):
In the town of Paulden, population forty five hundred, thirty
five minutes north of Prescott, the wrong direction from Scottsdale,
adding at least an hour and ten minutes to the
trip home.

Speaker 4 (31:34):
He'd made the trip to go talk to these survivalist
people in Paulden about something.

Speaker 1 (31:39):
When they get to the compound, Robert tells Mary to
wait in the car. He's gone for an hour. She
doesn't know what he's doing. When he returns, they drive
back to Scottsdale. Who did Robert know in Paulden? What
was he doing at a survivalist compound and why did
he make Mary wait in the car for an hour?
I don't know, but i'd like to time. The week

(32:00):
before the murders, Brittany competes in a Pinewood Derby competition
in which kids raise small wooden cars. At church, her
car breaks down. She's eliminated. A pastor says she disabled
her car on purpose because she didn't want to beat
a younger kid. Teachers notice that Brittany's not herself. She
seems depressed. She quits the track team separately. Robert and

(32:22):
Bobby played basketball in a neighbor's driveway. Robert asks the
neighbor what it feels like to kill someone. He seems upset.
Robert visits another neighbor, his paralyzed friend. They watched the
TV show Eco Challenge, which features a segment on water purification.
Robert expresses interest in learning how to purify water. Wednesday,

(32:44):
April fourth, six days until the murders, Robert unexpectedly shows
up at church looking for Mary and the kids.

Speaker 2 (32:52):
Mary got really like almost.

Speaker 1 (32:54):
Scared once again. Kim Davidson.

Speaker 2 (32:56):
She went to find her children, and she was very
upset that he was there. So it was like something
had happened and she didn't want to see him.

Speaker 1 (33:04):
Kim isn't there, but her friend Donna is. Neither of
them has ever seen this before. Mary fearful of Robert.
For years, Robert liked how involved Mary was with their church.
He liked knowing where she was and who she was with.
It was easier to control her. A friend says, now
he realizes that maybe Mary's too independent. She has her

(33:24):
own job, her own social life. He tells a coworker
he's worried Mary is quote spending a lot of time
at church with a pastor. He feels quote that the
pastor is too involved in the family's life. He doesn't
name the pastor. It's extremely unlikely that Robert thinks Mary's
having an affair. This is about control. Anyone with influence

(33:45):
over his family, even a pastor, is a threat. Thursday,
April fifth or Friday April sixth, Robert tells a coworker
that he had the previous week off. He says he
and Mary spent a day on his ATV somewhere in
or near Roosevelt, a rugged area next to a huge lake,
ninety minutes away between Scottsdale and Young Friday April sixth,

(34:09):
four days until the murders. Seven to ten pm, Mary
stops at a gas station fills up. Her fore runner
pulls seventy five dollars from an atm. April sixth or seventh,
Robert shops for attic insulation. He speaks to his mother
for the final time. Brittany attends a sleepover. She allegedly
says that when she dies, she wants to die in

(34:29):
her sleep. Saturday, April seventh, three days until the murders,
Robert tells a friend he's working overtime to pay off
his new truck. The Fissures are in good financial shape.
They're set to pay off their mortgage early. Mary's forerunner
is paid off. They have savings. Robert heads to Checker Auto,
a nearby store. I visit the building in twenty twenty three.

(34:51):
After it was Checker, it turned into an O'Reilly auto
parts store, and now it's empty. I'm pressing my face
up against the glass and it's just filthy.

Speaker 3 (35:00):
Thirty their leaves.

Speaker 1 (35:01):
He's a duct tape, an old sign. Looks like it's
been empty for a while. April seventh, two thousand and one,
ten oh four am, Robert buys motor oil filters and
a five gallon drain pan. He's caught on security footage.
I try to obtain it. The police still haven't given
it to me. I try to interview the cashier, but
she died. In twenty fourteen. Her death made national news.

(35:23):
Her four year old autistic son lived alone with her
body for four days until help arrived. April seventh, two
thousand and one, Robert changes the oil on his truck,
his quad, and Mary's fore runner. That night, he and
Mary go to a movie with Mary's sister and her husband.
Robert and Mary are in quote very good spirits and

(35:44):
appear to be getting along. They're home by ten pm Sunday,
April eighth, two days until the murders. Ten thirty am, Robert,
Mary and the kids attend church. Robert tells a friend
that he's in quite a bit of pain. His back hurts.
He says he's taking valley. The friend says that's not good.
Robert responds, I'm controlling it. I'm keeping it under control.

(36:07):
One PM, Mary's mom, Jinny Cooper, has lunch with Mary
and the kids at Sweet Tomatoes, a soup and salad restaurant.
Robert doesn't attend. Ginny says this is normal. Robert quote
pretty much stays away from the family police ask why.
She says Robert has a fear of getting close to
people and losing them. Three p forty six pm, Mary

(36:28):
signs a check at Costco. In the evening, she's back
at church. The Sopranos episode's second opinion airs on HBO.
It'll Win, Edie Falco and Emmy April ninth. The final
day late April ninth or early April tenth, The murders
April tenth. The house explodes, So what to make of

(36:50):
all this? By April two thousand and one, Robert's behavior
has been different for about six months. He's in pain,
popping pills, needs surgery, but is terrified it'll pair. After
cheating on Mary, he works hard to be a better
man until about October two thousand. Then he starts to
withdraw from church, friends, the gym. He seems stressed and paranoid.

(37:12):
In December two thousand, he gets sick with what he
claims is a UTI, but it might actually be an STI.
Rumors fly that Robert had an affair and that Mary
wants a divorce. In mid to late March, Kim Davidson
drops by the Fisher House. Mary answers the door, her
hand is injured. She acts weird. Kim offers to drive

(37:32):
her to get help. Mary says no. On March thirtieth,
eleven days before the murders, Robert and Mary spend the
day on Robert's ATV. They seem fine. On March thirty, first,
they attend a wedding. Again, they seem fine, but something changes.
By April fourth, Robert shows up at church looking for
Mary and the kids. Mary appears afraid of him. Britney

(37:54):
appears depressed. She quits to tract him. She allegedly says
that when she dies, she wants to die in her sleep.
Robert asks the neighbor what it feels like to kill someone.
On April seventh, fifty hours before the murders, Robert and
Mary go to the movies. They seem fine. The next
morning they go to church. Robert says he's in a
lot of pain. Mary and the kids have lunch with

(38:16):
Mary's mom, soup salad. They seem fine. They have thirty
six hours to live. The bipolarity of this final week
is dizzying normal, abnormal, stasis, change, control, chaos, Mary afraid
of Robert, and Mary going to the movies with him smiling.
The biggest question of this case, other than where's Robert Fisher?

(38:39):
Is why? What led to the murders? I think we
can answer that. Nineteen eighty five the seed Robert's back
injury control, Robert starts to lose it. Nineteen ninety nine,
the fuel infidelity alt Robert tries to adjust. Two thousand
and one the spark delete the murders? What is the spark?

(39:00):
What triggers Robert or his demons to detonate the House
of Fisher. I have a theory based on a new fact,
which I'll share with you next week. Before you go,
let me tell you a story about loss of control
and trauma and what comes next. Twenty thirteen was the
worst year of my life and also one of the best.

(39:21):
That January I started to spiral. I sank into severe
depression and anxiety, and for the first time, started having
panic attacks. There are certain pains you can't understand unless
you experience them. Ten minutes felt like ten years eternal torture.
My only relief was sleep. For the first and only

(39:41):
time I was suicidal. I wanted to jump off the
Golden Gate Bridge. Thankfully I didn't. By early March, I
gave up my apartment in Seattle, flew home, stayed with
my aunt and grandma. My life shrank down to a
single room, slowly, though I clawed it back. That August,
I moved to Louise, where I met my current partner,

(40:02):
who I'm still with eleven years later. In New Orleans,
I started archival research that later formed the backbone of
season one of this show. Missing in Alaska twenty thirteen
was the year I dissolved and reconstituted. This episode is
about change and trauma and control. When you're suffering, nothing
hurts more than to feel like you're alone. Nothing hurts

(40:24):
more than to feel like things will never get better.
So I want to share my story with you. You
don't have to go the way of Kurt Cobain or
Robert Fisher. I can't promise things will get better, but
I can promise it's possible, and at the least I
can promise you you're not alone. A phone number won't solve everything,
I know, but it's a first step. You can reach

(40:46):
the National Suicide and Crisis Lifeline by phone or text
at nine eight eight or online at nine eight eight
lifeline dot org. If you're struggling, please seek help. You're
listening to this show today because things did get better
for someone who suffered intensely. Things can get better for
you too. You're not alone Next time, I'm missing in Arizona.

Speaker 4 (41:09):
As of today, there's thirty possible matches to him within
one hundred miles of where he disappeared.

Speaker 1 (41:16):
You can reach us by phone at one eight three
three new tips that's one eight three three six three
nine eight four seven seven, by email at tips at
iHeartMedia dot com, tips at iHeartMedia dot com, online at
Neon thirty three dot com, or on Twitter at John Wallzac,
j O, n Wa l Czak. Paul Deckan is our

(41:40):
executive producer. Chris Brown is our supervising producer. Hannah Rose
Snyder is our producer. Paul Gemberline is our researcher. Ben
Bolan is a consulting producer, and I'm your host and
executive producer John Wallzac Special thanks to Mike Hicks. Additional
production support provided by Ben Hackett. Cover art by Pam Peacock,
Neon thirty three, logo design Derek Rudy. Our intro song

(42:02):
is Utopia by Ruby Cube. Please download the first two
seasons of our show, Missing in Alaska and Missing on
nine to eleven, and if you're so inclined, give us
a five star rating. Missing in Arizona is a co
production of iHeartRadio and Neon thirty three.
Advertise With Us

Host

Jon Walczak

Jon Walczak

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