Money & Wealth: Reviving the American Dream w/ Michael Milken

In this special episode of Money and Wealth, John Hope Bryant sits down with legendary financier and philanthropist Michael Milken to explore the future of the American Dream. Together, they discuss the power of access to capital, the role of entrepreneurship in creating opportunity, and the importance of education, healthcare, and financial literacy as pillars of upward mobility. From Milken’s groundbreaking work in high-yield finance to his global impact on medical research and his new Milken Center for Advancing the American Dream, this conversation is both inspiring and practical. Tune in for insights on inclusive capitalism, economic mobility, and how we can renew hope and opportunity for generations to come.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Peace of the planet, Charlomagne to God. Here.

Speaker 2 (00:01):
Before we get into today's episode, we've got to celebrate
the Black Effect Podcast Network.

Speaker 1 (00:06):
It's turning five years old.

Speaker 2 (00:08):
Man five years a powerful voices, unforgettable moments in a
community that keeps growing.

Speaker 1 (00:12):
This is the power of the platform. Now let's get
into it.

Speaker 3 (00:15):
Welcome the Money in Wealth with John Hope Bryant, a
production of the Black Effect Podcast Network and iHeartRadio.

Speaker 4 (00:29):
Hey.

Speaker 3 (00:29):
Hey, this is John Hope Bryant and this is Money
and Wealth podcast networks series.

Speaker 5 (00:36):
This is my season two of Money and Wealth on
iHeart Radio and the Black Effect Network.

Speaker 3 (00:41):
I want to thank everybody for making us a top
one hundred business podcast and top fifty for entrepreneurship here
in America and top two hundred around the world today.
As you know, I don't normally bring on guests. This
is my sort of personal ministry of finance. I don't
normally bring on guests. If I bring on a guest,
they're very special and I don't think I've ever brought

(01:04):
on the same guest twice. This is a guest that
I would bring on over and over and over and
over again because his cup of knowledge and insight and
wisdom runneth over. You know him as the legendary Michael Milkin.
I know him as my friend. He is an extraordinary

(01:25):
human being. Some of you who know your history would
know that Alexander Hamilton is credited for being sort of
the father of finance, father of the really traditional banking
system in America.

Speaker 5 (01:41):
If there is a modern.

Speaker 3 (01:43):
Father of finance in the last one hundred years, one
would have to credit at least in part, Michael Milkin.
Let me give you a little bit of his bio.
Then I'll tell you why I think he's important personally.
Then we're gonna get into a very powerful session that's
really talking about the future of America, the future of

(02:06):
this thing we call the American Dream. Born in forty
six as the Financie, became a financier and a philanthropist
and a thought leader. His career spanned a Wall Street innovation,
large scale philanthropy, decades of work advancing medical research, probably
the largest contributor to prostate research in the world today.

(02:27):
And he had prostate cancer. And as he solves most things,
he took a problem and turned it into a solution
at scale, not only benefit himself but everybody else.

Speaker 5 (02:41):
Two.

Speaker 3 (02:43):
He rose to prominence most people's minds in the seventies
and the eighties at Drexel Burnham, Lambert shorthand Drexel on
Wall Street, pioneering the use of high yield bonds. He
probably hates to me saying this, Some people call him
junk bonds. Ending name tied him with the word junk
on it. But it was just a high yield bond

(03:05):
instrument that had never been created before, and he pioneered
that himself. That opened the doors for a lot of
entrepreneurs to get into the game. His financial models opened
up capital access for companies and entrepreneurs that traditional banks overlooked.
He fueled growth in industries like cable, cellular as in

(03:25):
cell phones, and healthcare. A third of all companies you
do business with the day are industries. Michael had a
hand in those. And in philanthropy, I've already mentioned prostate cancer.
He has a Prostate Cancer Foundation Faster Cures Medical research

(03:47):
is multifaceted and deep seated to this day. In education,
he has a milk In Family Foundation, which does great
work in k through twelve. His global influence includes the
annual is Too Global Conference, the Milk and Global Conference
and Shorthand He's got the Milking Institute as well, which
is sort of his base station for all things advancement.

(04:11):
He's working now on a number of initiatives, including medical philanthropy,
inclusive capitalism. I call it the Center for the Advancement
into the American Dream in Washington, d C. Which I'm
very proud to be associated with, and we're going to
talk a lot about today because it opens very soon.
Just one of his pet project side deals that he

(04:33):
raised a billion dollars for collected six buildings in Washington,
d C. Across from the White House, acrossing the Treasury Department,
next to Hello, the Friedman's Bank. You can't make this up.
In Bassard, Andrew Young would say, coincidence is God's way
of remaining anonymous. It's next to the Freedman's Bank. And
when I was with Michael by the way for a

(04:54):
soft opening, I think it was July. It was for
July fourth. We're there July second, and he was on
the balcony. I was there with him overlooking Treasury. It
was about six pm and I looked at Michael as
I just remembered something. July second, around six pm eighteen

(05:15):
seventy four, I believe was a date that was the
last date that Frederick Doll has walked out of what
was called the Freedman's Bank for the end of that experiment.
He thought it had failed. And on July second, twenty
twenty five, Michael Milkin had turned the lights on on
mcat a milkn Center for the Advance of the American
Dream in my opinion, to turn the light back on

(05:38):
in America and to give people once again a ladder
for their aspirational success. And he's got the Economic Mobility Alliance,
which we're going to talk about promoting promotes pathways the
capital inclusion, entrepreneurship, and financial security, financial literacy that includes me,
by the way, I'm involved with that. Michael's been called
the man who changed medicine. His role in accelerating cures

(06:02):
and medical research funding again for black folks in particular
prostate cancer is a game changer and he had a
big hand in that. But the thing that I'm most
proud of is that really the Martin the King Junior
of Wall Street is a man named Reginald Lewis, and

(06:22):
Reginald Lewis had a vision Harvard educated, very qualified, overqualified.

Speaker 5 (06:27):
Has had a vision to do a deal to buy
a company.

Speaker 3 (06:30):
I think it was called Beatrice International forty I think
he was involved in forty countries.

Speaker 5 (06:36):
It was a billion dollar deal and he couldn't get
anybody to back them. Michael backed them.

Speaker 3 (06:43):
So when folks will remain nameless said this deal can't
be done, Michael, this guy can't find the capital to
do this deal. He's a nice guy, Michael said, well,
I'm his capital.

Speaker 5 (06:56):
That's my kind of guy.

Speaker 3 (07:00):
You don't hear that backstory, But everybody needs a Michael Milkin,
and my Michael Milkin. Well, it is Michael Milkin, but
it's also people like Tony Wrestler, who worked back at
Drexel for Michael Milkin. Tony Wrestler, who is one of
the most successful people in the world today, helped to
back me and some of the things I've done. And

(07:22):
so the story continues. And so Michael is a PhD
and a PhD too. He's a get it done guy,
and I call him an honorary brother. He's real cool,
and he's down to earth, and he deeply cares and
he doesn't change his values or his beliefs based on
political wins or who's in office, or whether you're a

(07:42):
conservative or Democrat, or black or white or Richard Poor.
He just says things because he believes it's the truth.
That's my kind of dude. And I'm about to introduce
him to you as my friend, ladies and gentlemen, my
friend a living mansion.

Speaker 4 (07:57):
Michael Milkin, Well, hello, my young friend. That's quite an introduction.
As you know, my mom, if she was still alive,
would be blushing with that description. But both you and
I are dedicated to a number of things and working together,
not the least of which is access to capital on

(08:19):
opportunity for all.

Speaker 3 (08:21):
And Michael, this is not just talk for you. I
mean you've walked your talk. You've put your money where
your mouth is and everybody else's money that you can
get a hold of from your friends to do well
and do good at the same time. I mean, last
week you had a bunch of really really powerful wealthy
people in the Hamptons for a dialogue, and then you

(08:41):
have a dialogue in la and you have a dialogue
in the Florida, and you've got things going on Singapore,
You've got meetings in Africa, in the Middle East, and
Asia is if you have spare time. I thought I
was busy to look at your schedule. I mean, you
are restless in your desire to make the world a
better place, and today you and I I think would agree.
At least I think we would agree. We don't talk

(09:03):
about the city advance of the interview. The world's feeling
a little challenge. I mean, people are questioning whether the
American dream is still real for them, whether they can
actually we do, I think disagree on what that American
dream is for people. We'll get into that in a
Minute's nothing wrong with the constructive friction and positive disagreement.
But what I think we can't agree on is that

(09:25):
it was your quote, education, sorry, intelligence is equally distributed,
but opportunity is not. And that's a Michael Milkan quote.
And I think that's more the case now than it
was a decade ago. I think people are feeling that
no matter how hard they work, they just can't get ahead.
They feel like there are a treadmill that maybe even depressed.

(09:49):
And that's why I think it's a good time for
this conversation. You cannot have a rainbow without a storm first.
That's a scientific fact. Actually, it's not just good metaphor,
and so it's time for a rainbow. I think people
are exhausted, They're worn out. They're tired of people arguing
and being experts in what they're against and even the division.

(10:09):
So how do we bridge folks together? Is that what
is that shared dream? Is it still possible to be
people to achieve and become successful here. I think America
is a light for all of our problems. We just
get this out of the way. My second great grandmother
was a slave, My second great grandfather was a slave,
My father was a share my grandfather was a share cop.

Speaker 5 (10:28):
Proper. I mean, I get that America is highly imperfect, but.

Speaker 3 (10:33):
Sort of capitalism for me, capitalism, democracy and America sort
of like horrible systems except for every other system right.

Speaker 5 (10:41):
And America has got all kinds of problems. But I really.

Speaker 3 (10:43):
Wouldn't live any place else. But we still need to
be that light on the heel. We need to renew
that promise. And most wealth comes from the private sector.
Most jobs come from the private secret people don't know that.
And people companies were one small ones. People don't know
that they started small and somebody made it be in

(11:05):
a household name. If that dream dead, Michael Ork or
does it just need to be revitalized? And is that
in any way why you created what is people call
it shorthand mk Milkan Center for the Advancement of the
American Dream Or did you just not have something else
to do with a billion dollars?

Speaker 4 (11:26):
Well, it all started in two thousand and seven. John
and I became really concerned that people were feeling more
and more disenfranchised, didn't feel they had a chance at
that dream or redefine that dream. So I bought some
property in California with the idea that you could overlook

(11:49):
the Pacific Ocean and have that dream. But over time
I felt we needed to do it in Washington, DC.
All the decisions, all the rules were there, and who knows,
there was a chance to buy the building next to
the Freedom Bank. What better location could you buy?

Speaker 5 (12:10):
Vision? That's right a lot and will You didn't know
it at that time, right, you didn't realize was Friedman's
Bank next door? When you bought it, right, you made it.

Speaker 4 (12:19):
You got that name, Johnny used to be called the
Treasury Annex until you enlighten the government. And so I
felt we need a beacon of hope for the whole world,
not just the United States, that some place there's a
beacon and hope. And on July third of this year,
for the first time in eighty three years, we opened

(12:42):
the skylight in the old Rigs Bank building and let
light back in. And after they bombed Pearl Harbor and
Germany declared war in the United States, and we all
know about all those bombing runs in Britain and London,
they were not allowed to have light. And so this
building was shedding the light not only in Washington and

(13:06):
the world, but financing many different things. And the government
made them take out the skylight and we restored all
one hundred and ninety panels, put it back in on
in July third of this year, opened it that light again.
But you've told your story, and we're filming ten thousand

(13:29):
stories with the idea that a person can come and
find their story in the American dream.

Speaker 5 (13:38):
And we have.

Speaker 4 (13:39):
Filmed people whose ancestors came here as slaves, not by choice.
We filmed people who lived in homeless shelters, hot centers.
We filmed people that never met their father. We filmed
people that basically lived in foster care We didn't just
film the most successful entrepreneurs. And we recently filmed someone

(14:04):
who's achieved as American dream, and we asked him what
was your dream? His dream was to coach his daughter's
soccer team. But economics, economics, when you ask people, only
sixteen percent of people think wealth is required to achieve

(14:25):
your American dream. Number one factor is over eighty percent
will tell you it is freedom. Freedom to live your life. Okay,
freedom for a good family life, freedom for retirement. But
you and I both know it's hard to have a
great retirement if you don't have any pension fund or

(14:47):
savings account later in the life.

Speaker 5 (14:49):
So where is money?

Speaker 4 (14:51):
Wealth is not essential, Having a degree of financial freedom is.
And you have taken leadership, and I've spent sixty years
working on financial literacy. When you talked about creditor bonds,
ninety nine point nine to nine percent of every business

(15:12):
in America is not an investment grade company, and said, yes,
those five hundred companies thought it was good. Let's not
give an entrepreneur like John Hope Bryant or Craig McCall
or Ted Turner. Let's deny him access to capital, and
the world will be better.

Speaker 5 (15:31):
You'rek about the Fortune five hundred, the five hundred companies
that was about the Fortune five hundred.

Speaker 4 (15:36):
Well, now there are not every Fortune five hundred is
investment grade, but these are the ones that have the
highest rating.

Speaker 5 (15:42):
Got it?

Speaker 4 (15:43):
And these companies. Large companies created minus four million jobs
in the last thirty years of the twentieth century. And
those small and medium companies that grew grew into large
companies today created six two million jobs.

Speaker 5 (16:01):
Wow.

Speaker 4 (16:02):
And so there are we cannot rest on the past,
and we cannot deny those with the best ideas, drive creativity,
We cannot deny them capital and all these companies, every
one of your most valuable companies, Amazon, Microsoft, Navidia, Facebook, Google,

(16:28):
that we know, Tesla, none of them existed in the
nineteen seventies, none of them. And so these ideas. And
I remember I was speaking to a young group in
south central LA. Not Campton, but it was close down
there in south central and John where you now you

(16:52):
were one. I wasn't in Camden. I wasn't in Compton either,
but we were in parts of LA. And I remember
speaking with.

Speaker 5 (17:03):
For the audience.

Speaker 3 (17:04):
I'm teasing Michael, he's been the Harlem more than most,
more than most Caucasian folks have ever even seen a
picture of Harlem.

Speaker 5 (17:10):
He's been.

Speaker 3 (17:11):
He's been to Harlem, maybe more than a lot of
black people. He's been the South Central on a regular basis.
I think the first time I met Michael Millcotte, actually
twenty five years ago, was in South central deep south
central LA at a conference where we asked him to speak.

Speaker 5 (17:29):
He was very comfortable. I'm teasing him, so but I
just I like to tease him, but.

Speaker 4 (17:33):
Seriously then Harlem, Yeah, he's in Harlem. I got school
in South central LA. And I remember holding up in
the early days a mobile phone, and I asked them
what was more powerful? Where did this mobile come from?
Where did it come from? He came from the ideas

(17:55):
of people a new industry. And if you you wanted
to own the franchise for New York City, eight to
ten million people just in the city, what did it cost?
It costs ten thousand dollars. That's all you have to
do to apply for that franchise. Really, now it costs

(18:21):
a lot of money to build it out. But that's
where I came in. But in the case of Rege Lewis,
here was a person that was the best prepared, most knowledgeable,
and was going to do the best job running Beatrice International, right.
And when the owners and the sellers told me he
had no credibility with them, I told him he had

(18:44):
credibility with me, and that's all he needed. And boy
did he do a great job. But there are so
many of those young entrepreneurs that are household names today
that people met from the standpoint, and it's amazing what
they can do when you give them a chance. But
in building the Center for the Advancing American Dream, we

(19:08):
want it to be a beacon of hope to the world. John,
not just to Washington, d C.

Speaker 5 (19:13):
But the world.

Speaker 4 (19:14):
And of six million people walk down what used to
be called the People Street. They can't go into any
of the buildings. You've got to get permission and clear security.

Speaker 3 (19:27):
You can't go to Freeman's Bank building either is a
secure facility. So your building is the only one that
anybody can end it. You can't enter Treasury, you can't
enter the Freedman's Bank. We certainly can into the White House.

Speaker 5 (19:36):
You can't.

Speaker 4 (19:37):
I mean, we're going to open the People Street again
to the people. But you and I both know as
we thought about what it takes to think about that dream.
We thought of the four pillars which have been the
four pillars of my life. One is financial literacy, the
free enterprise system, access to capitol.

Speaker 5 (19:59):
What do they in Michael forget.

Speaker 4 (20:01):
Finance, financial freedom, all financial literacy there, that's all one finance.
Number two the entrepreneur and innovation. Who thought of all
these new ideas? Okay, who thought of them? You're an entrepreneur,
but many of the entrepreneurs John are social entrepreneurs. They're

(20:25):
running foundations, they're running churches, or they're like Lee Kwan yu,
and they built a country as an entrepreneur. Third is
healthcare and medical research. It's hard to have a good
life if you're not healthy. It's hard to have a
good life if your life is cut short because you

(20:46):
don't have access to good health care. And Fourth, education
and the educator in the world we live in today,
it's that education that's freedom. And that's why we're so
focused on the historically black colleges here to make sure
that those kids who have the intelligence have the opportunity.

(21:10):
And that's why we run these programs with getting them
to be money managers. Because when I noticed at a
very young age, it was funny. If I financed an
entrepreneur from Vietnam, somehow there were more Vietnam employees from Vietnam.
And if I financed a black entrepreneur, it was just funny.

(21:32):
But there were more black senior employees than if there weren't.
And if I financed someone from Mexico, Lo and behold,
there were more people from Latin America. And so we
want to make sure that everyone has access to capital.
And this program on Economic Mobility Alliance that you're such

(21:53):
a big part of, John, is to bring everyone's programs together.
So KK started a program called Ownership Work, so when
they buy a company, they give stock to every single
employee of that company. And then Blackstone, who's the third
largest employer in America seven one hundred thousand, they started

(22:17):
something called Career Pathways. So if you're working for their
company and you want to move up, whether you need education,
a graduate degree, some technical skills, or whether you need
an education in financial literacy, they're going to tell you
have upward mobility if we're working for us. And so

(22:39):
each of these entities becomes important, and today we have
employers of over four to six million people that are
waiting for the rules that are going to give money
to every child of every employee. Today, in America we
have the most millionllionaires of any country, but we have

(23:02):
a very large percentage of our population with a net
worth under ten thousand who have to worry about a
medical emergency or something going wrong in their family. And
so when I look at Australia today, Australia has the
highest meetian net worth of any country in the world.

(23:26):
It has more than twenty million people because they created
these super annuation funds where every single person has their
own pension fund and retirement and has a feeling of
confidence that if they ever retire, or they have a
medical emergency or so they need something. We also are

(23:55):
part of the effort. We have to stop loaning money
to people to go to college and then they get
out and they feel they're going to spend the rest
of their life having to pay it back. We have
been focusing on investing. I can invest in you. I'll
give you the money for you to go to school,
and we'll share revenues, so after you get the first

(24:18):
hundred thousand or two hundred thousand, it's not debt I'm
betting on you. And if I'm betting on you and
made an investment on you, you can rest assured I'm
going to help you with your internships. I'll find a
way to get you capital and make your ideas available.
So hundreds of different programs, and the idea for this, John,

(24:40):
as you know, came from what we did in healthcare.

Speaker 5 (24:44):
Yeah, you can revolutionize healthcare led by the process piece
crossly cancer research and all these efforts have changed health care.
And you're basically going to.

Speaker 3 (24:52):
Reboot that model as I'm hearing and trying to connect
it to economic mobility, creating a compact of leaders wrapped
around all these different programs and initiatives. I want to
slow down for the audience and bring I want to
tease out a couple of things. Michael talks about the stuff.
He's such a genius he talks about and stuff so

(25:13):
naturally that it may be hard for people to catch
all of it. I want to come back and slow
the music down for a little bit. Uh mcat in
order milking Center for the advance of the American Dream.
I want you to go after September whatever it is,
twenty or whatever, It'll be open to the public.

Speaker 5 (25:31):
You can go to Washington, d C. I want you
to go.

Speaker 3 (25:33):
I want to take your kids. I want to take
your mate, I want you to take your business partner.
I want to take their fellow dreamer. It's not a museum, people,
it's not a museum to the past. It's a lighthouse
for the future. It's it's it's the rebuilding of the
American dream. And it'll inspire you to be that dreamer.
And you and you're not a you're not an observer

(25:53):
of this.

Speaker 5 (25:54):
When you walk in, there's a beautiful gold tree, and
you be in a walk over and tell your story,
take a photo and tell your story briefly.

Speaker 3 (26:05):
That photo within ten seconds will show off on the tree.
You're gonna see yourself on that tree, right next to
Magic Johnson, right next to Oprah Winfrey, right next to
whatever hero or she wrote you admire most, Alexrodrigez, wherever
it is you admire.

Speaker 5 (26:23):
You're gonna see your picture right up there. You can
take a photo of that. And I believe they're gonna
be some keep saying when to take that home. But
you're gonna be part of this history. And that's that's
just the beginning.

Speaker 3 (26:32):
Of this journey of being involved, hopefully with a relationship
with the Milkings Center for.

Speaker 5 (26:40):
The massive Advanced American Dream.

Speaker 3 (26:41):
And hopefully we're gonna tie this in to the Freedman's
Bank legacy because we can't go into the Freeman's Bank buildings.
We're gonna Hope meetings about what I call silvil rights
from civil rights and civil rights inside of the milk
And Center the Advanced American Dream. Let's now go to
his comment about aunts, and I mean, I'm just going
to break this down. You talk about investment accounts, and

(27:03):
I believe he's talking about young people, as you the
audience probably knows. Operation to Hope partner with the City
of Atlanta, Mayor Andre Dicken to help the inspiration of
Mayor Abassidor Andrew Young as an inspiration and former Mayor
Kisha Lance Bottoms.

Speaker 5 (27:18):
We got a couple million dollars from the City of Atlanta.

Speaker 3 (27:20):
We put up child's accounts, child savings accounts, Hope Child
Savings accounts, and we met it was matching a fifty bucks.
Mike some much more money than this is a thousand dollars,
but we it was fifty bucks from the city. We
matched it fifty bucks operation and hope in our partners.
We have now ten thousand, five hundred account every kid
in kindergarten for the last three years in Atlanta. Those

(27:41):
kids are going to grow up with a different outlook
on life. Studies have shown if you have money in
an account, a kid is seventy five percent more likely
to gradual weight from college.

Speaker 5 (27:50):
Just that one thing.

Speaker 3 (27:52):
Then the rap financial literacy around it. Give them a
role model, give somebody w aspire to. Okay, now the
fuses lit and we can do this in communities all
across the country. On the local basis. It's powerful. Brittie's King,
Doctor King's daughter is wanting to work with us on
their dance hundredth anniversary of his birthday coming up twenty
twenty nine, to do one hundred accounts one hundred cities.

(28:14):
Is this local effort is very noble, but it'd be
nice if there was something national that sort of was
a partner to this effort. And I can't speak to
the details that a lot of this stuff is still
in motion, but I will tell you I trust Michael.

Speaker 5 (28:30):
I don't know.

Speaker 3 (28:30):
I'm not talking about other folks involved this, but I
trust Michael, And Michael tells me that there are billionaires
who agreed to put up a lot of money in
major corporations to open child savings accounts, basically invest in
the market nationally, and I think that that has a
lot of potential. So that's something that he mentioned, and

(28:52):
he referenced the success in Australia in that regard.

Speaker 5 (28:56):
I'm just trying to slow this music down a little
bit so that people can keep up with you.

Speaker 4 (28:59):
Michael continue, Oh, John, I think you've touched something here
by giving every kid an investment in an index of
stocks of the largest companies, most innovative companies in America,
and having the financial institutions agree that there are no charges.

(29:23):
There is no charge to open the account, there is
no charge to manage money. And you and I know
how many people that these charges eat them alive over time.
So no charges, okay for them, You'll be able to
save money and everyone can feel that they're part of
the process. That was the idea between ownership works if

(29:47):
we're going to have a successful company and sell it.
And one of the partners, Leonard Green, headed by people
who used to work for me, they sold the company
to Home depot, and they distributed two billion dollars to
every low level and every mid level employee working for

(30:08):
that company because they were stakeholders. They were shareholders. And
that's our promise. How do we make people feel now?
Our country is a very unique place most of the
countries in the world. If you were given money to
start a business and it didn't work, that's it. There

(30:28):
are no second chances here. In places like Silicon Valley,
people wear their badges as an honor badge that they
started a company, they did their best, it didn't make it,
but they get a second chance, and they get a
third chance. And so you'd be surprised today how many

(30:51):
people you read about or hear about that their company
turned out to be fabulously successful at their first try.
And that's what's unique. And I think that's one of
the messages we're going to have in the center. And
another very important part of the Center that you talked about, John,

(31:12):
is that center will change when you come there. There
is the word cloud in another hall that you can
enter your words as to what you think the American
Dreams stands for, and as you enter your words, the
colors of that cloud change to reflect the words you

(31:33):
put on. So this is something that changes when you're there,
and we've spent a lot of time creating these holograms.
So if you want to learn a little bit about
being an entrepreneur, you can talk to Sarah Blakely and
you can have a conversation with her because she is

(31:53):
turned into an avatar. And if you want to talk
to a young money manager and your capital, well you
can have a conversation with Serena Williams about her venture
capital firm and what she did. And if you want
to talk about education, sal Khan, his avatar, is there

(32:13):
to talk to you about it. And if you want
to talk about medical, the fourth pillar where their sun
Jay Gupta from CNN to talk to you about that. Right,
So this is an interactive experience and so those we
want people to be energized. And there's stories of people

(32:36):
whose lives have been so difficult, being diagnosed with a
life threatening disease as a kid, being handicapped, and what
and how they overcame them. And so what we hope
is that each person can find their own dream. So
our goal in the center is that a story of

(32:57):
one of the people, one of the thousands of people
will touch someone and say that could be my American dream.
And who knows, John, just like that man that walked
into your classroom in Compton, California changed your life. We
look one of the people they meet and interact with
at the center, whether it's in person or digitally, might

(33:21):
change their path and give them hope for their American
dream and make them feel it's possible. If that person
could achieve it, then we can achieve it. And when
they come there and watch the video of a girl
who was hard of hearing and they didn't know she
was hard of hearing, and the school told her that

(33:43):
she was not going to be successful in life. Well,
today that girl is the principle of the same school
she went to. And so we hope those stories, just
like the person they came into classroom changed your life.
One individual, one story for me, as you know, it

(34:08):
was the Watts riots on August eleven, sixty five, John,
that I met this young American African American man who
told me on August twelve that his father no one
would ever loan the money because of the color of
his skin, and no one would loan him money because
of the scholar of his skin, and while we were

(34:30):
sitting there looking at this building that had burned down,
he now had no job, had a family and a child,
and no savings. And so that one event in my
life sixty years ago changed the entire path of my life.

(34:50):
So we hope maybe visiting one talking to one person,
seeing one person might change their life and give them
more hope for the future.

Speaker 5 (35:02):
Audiens listening to this, I want you to get this memo.

Speaker 3 (35:05):
This guy, in addition to everything else I've just told you,
he's got these milk and fellows that come from Africa
and Asia, in all parts of the world that he's
given a shot. He's given them visibility that I would say,
from the streets to the suites, from civil rights to
civil rights, and he puts them in front of some
of the wealthiest, most powerful people in the world. And

(35:25):
these private meetings that Michael invites me to to go
speak his dialogues, and he gives them a shot at
the big ring where people can hire them or partner
with them, or back them, or or they can just
befriend each other and get to know each other.

Speaker 5 (35:38):
Doesn't have to do that.

Speaker 3 (35:40):
Did it to go to Watts as he just mentioned,
most wealthy people, Michael, I'll say it, Michael is one
of the wealthy.

Speaker 5 (35:45):
People in the world.

Speaker 3 (35:47):
Is to do this, you'd just say, you could just
say I'm just gonna go sit on my yachd or
sit in my beach house or whatever and call it
to day. But he's all leaned in, and I want
you to go to this Milking Center for the advancing
the American Dream because it just might be a way
to spark your boldness, for you to go from the
streets to the suitees, for you to climb up your

(36:08):
own aspirational ladder, for you to bring an intern or
a fellow into your organization here, your company or your orbit.
Why should you live your life? And maybe the only
Bible anybody else reads. Michael is a weird dude to
me because he's he's he's courageous and kind and consistent,

(36:29):
and those are and he's uber wealthy.

Speaker 5 (36:34):
Those are very rare set of facts. And then you
here's a big one.

Speaker 3 (36:37):
I've already told you Michael Milking story, right, But he
also backed a woman I think about forty years ago
to become one of the first.

Speaker 5 (36:46):
Women to run a big company. Michael, what was her.

Speaker 4 (36:49):
Name Linda Wakner and a company called Warnica, which is
how big was that company? And it was one of
the five hundred largest companies. And I did get a
lot of hate mail, how could I possibly do that?
And I a lot of us don't remember.

Speaker 5 (37:09):
You got death threats, actually death threats from him about that.
And for Mike Becking Reriginal Lewis to be blood.

Speaker 4 (37:17):
It was a different world for women. That great movie
you know about the women that helped our space program
Hidden Figures. Yep, it's amazing. And when you think of
where we are today beginning in the nineteen seventies, that

(37:37):
women have an opportunity. And if I would have told
someone when I was sitting at my trading desk in
nineteen sixty nine that a woman was going to be
the CEO of IBM, a woman was going to be
the CEO of the largest defense contractor, Lockheed Martin, that
a woman was going to be ahead of General Motors,

(37:58):
they would have told me, I'm but that barrier was
broken down and the first woman happened to be Linda
Wakner in the mid eighties, and it was amazing. People said,
how can you back a woman? I said, how can
I not back a woman who has ability. So I

(38:19):
think we're in a different world. And you know, John,
that these studies have shown that if you can get
a person to interact with different socio economic groups, that
they have a much better chance of rising up in
their lifetime. Even in the world of a country club.

(38:42):
If you're a caddy at a country club and you're
a young black kid who's a good athlete and a caddy,
you'll have a higher chance of rising up than if
you didn't interact with that group. And once you interact
with people and discover you can hold your own. All

(39:02):
these kids from these elementary schools in the inner cities,
once we gave them their superpowers in math, we could
then take them and once they discovered, boy, they were
a lot stronger and a lot better than those kids
going to elite schools. And they knew that eighty three
times eighty seven was seventy two twenty one before anyone

(39:26):
could enter it into their calculator. That confidence carried him over.
And as we look at them later in the life,
the six hundred of our scholars who've been given that shot,
they have a much different world than their parents did.
And much different self confidence. Because of that, they're willing

(39:46):
to take chances, they're willing to take risk. Many years ago,
Reverend Jesse Jackson, when I first met him almost forty
five years ago, he told me, you know why so
many Africas Americans go to work for the Post Office
because they know they'll get a fair shake, that there

(40:08):
won't be discrimination working for them. And many of those
people could have built a company, could have done something different,
but they felt they weren't going to get a fair shake.
And I think that's what access to capital does. It
gives you a chance, and this country, which is so unusual,

(40:30):
gives you a chance to try and fail and try again.
So we want you to hear those stories of all
those companies that had Jeff Bezos or someone tried before.
It was about forty thirty years ago and I was
interacting with many of the entrepreneurs. You know what they

(40:51):
told me. Their secret to success was they fail fast.

Speaker 5 (40:56):
If it's not.

Speaker 4 (40:57):
Working, they just move on. But it takes a lot
of courage to be able to move on. If this
is your only job, that's is your only opportunity.

Speaker 5 (41:10):
And going back to.

Speaker 3 (41:11):
Your going back to to what I call relationship capital,
which is the whole who you know piece and you
walk past it, Michael, But I want people to hear this.
Maybe you can't get the formal internship. Maybe maybe the
programs have been dismantled for you to ladder up into
into the corporation, corporate or whatever.

Speaker 5 (41:27):
But you go get go become a caddie to country club. Uh,
go work at a at a at a private club.
Try to what does a country mean? Country clubs, private clubs,
social clubs, A lot of these these you know, exclusive
meeting events. It's it's another way to gain relationship capital,

(41:48):
because if you hang around nine bro people, you'll be
the tenth.

Speaker 3 (41:51):
And the opposite is also true. It's not just about
smarts you are. It's about positioning yourself so you're smart seen.
And that's what Michael's helping to do with the Fellow program.
And then what he's done we did with with with
Linda believe her name was, and with Reginald Lewis backing them.
And by the way, I think a lot of hate
that came Michael's way in the seventies and eighties and
nineties was because he was backing all these outliers. But

(42:13):
that's a whole other podcast for another day.

Speaker 4 (42:15):
John wasn't just that. Yeah, if you're AT and T
and you have ninety nine percent market share, and then
somebody's going to finance MCI, and you now have a competitor.
By the way, AT and T was broken up four
years after we financed MCI. But you would be blackballed

(42:40):
if you gave them money. And I think it's very important,
you know, when you want to find an entrepreneur. I
had this young African American kid, it came to see

(43:01):
me to finance his business. You know what made finance
his business is he didn't have enough money for advertising.
So when they had show time with Magic Johnson at
the Lakers, he bought one seat at courtside where the
cameras would see him and had the name of his

(43:22):
company on his T shirt and there every time they
showed the huddle, he stood up free advertising. And I
was thinking, boy, this young man is a creative individual,
and gosh, we got to back him. We got to
give him a chance. If that's how when he has
no money, how he's going to advertise. So there are

(43:45):
a lot of people, and you know why a company
fails two reasons. One of them related to money. One
they have too much money and they wasted or two
they have too little money. Okay, so how do you
find those outliers? How do you find that person in
your neighborhood who is going to think of different ways

(44:09):
to solve a problem or make it work today? And
so I used to set his time set aside time
every afternoon. I wanted to listen to every crazy idea.
And I used to have my firm tell me it's
a total waste of time. And I told them the
day that I stopped listening to the next crazy idea

(44:31):
is the day we will be not financing the best entrepreneurs.

Speaker 5 (44:37):
And how many companies did you finance in total? Michael?

Speaker 4 (44:40):
About about three thousand over the years.

Speaker 5 (44:43):
My lord.

Speaker 3 (44:44):
Okay, so okay, here's a little known fact about Michael
Milkin and around this back out to I want you
to go to this MCT, this Milk and Center. I'm
gonna I'm tell you why because right now you can't
see me relate to Michael. You've heard the stories. You're like, oh,
like this guy's incredible, it's amazing. But I can't relate
to Michael Milkin.

Speaker 4 (44:59):
Hold on.

Speaker 5 (45:01):
I believe Michael Milkan was a cheerleader in high school?
Is that right, Michael?

Speaker 4 (45:05):
That is correct? And Sally Fields was one of my
head song leaders. Unfortunately, have male cheerleaders anymore.

Speaker 3 (45:17):
It takes to be a male dang a cheerleader in
nineteen whatever year it was today.

Speaker 5 (45:22):
Frankly, I mean, that's amazing. What kind of confidence does
that take to become a male cheerleader And he's proud
of it. I mean, it's fantastic. You've been beating your
own drum your whole life. Is this part of why
you like backing outliers and backing people who don't have
visibility and backing people who are different? Like what is
that thing in you that makes you reach do a

(45:42):
little bit extra and make sure that everybody's at the
table in your conversations? And time is back to mcad.

Speaker 3 (45:49):
Is there a place when you come to as a
family comes to in cab do they get to leave
their inprint somewhere where their presence has been recorded that
they're also part of history.

Speaker 4 (46:00):
Well that they get to leave their picture, they get
to leave their story, their family story. They also get
to see why why are immigrants so successful in America.
Why is that immigrant who came from another world or
another place because they think they'll have a better chance,

(46:21):
a better chance for their children, a better chance for themselves,
a better life. And I think this is our view.
My children, children, my grandchildren, and great grandchildren, their life
in this country will be highly dependent on every child

(46:43):
feeling they have a chance. If every child doesn't feel
they have a chance, then my grandchildren and great grandchildren
will not have a good life. And I think when
you look at polling people, what do they tell you?
What is equality? Okay, equality is that everyone should have

(47:07):
a chance. Is it equal outcomes?

Speaker 3 (47:10):
No?

Speaker 4 (47:11):
No, Only four percent of blacks think it's equal outcome,
Only four percent of Democrats, only four percent of whites.
Only four percent of Republicans think it's equal outcome. But
it is an equal chance. And sometimes, as you have
pointed out, what I have found is getting on a

(47:32):
floor in a classroom with a kid is convincing him
that he has a chance and if you put him
in that environment. It was nineteen ninety three and we
quiz kids in the very difficult area in West Philadelphia,
not too far from the University of Pennsylvania, and it

(47:55):
was not that safe an area when I went there
in the nineteenth sixties, and it was interesting. Many of
the students didn't feel safe in the hood surrounding the school.
But what I was surprised at, You say, well, who
you like, you're familiar with it, that is, but how
many of the kids in the hood didn't feel comfortable

(48:18):
walking on a college campus. So I asked him, why
are you not comfortable? Come walk with me on school.
He says, they're going to ask if I walk there,
they're going to ask me questions. And I said to him,
like what he told me, like the speed of light.
I might not know it's one hundred and eighty six
thousand miles a second. Is that what you're telling me.

(48:41):
They're not going to ask you the speed of light?
And so a lot of times you need to know
that they can hold their own. You need to put
them in that environment and when they discover they have
the same ability or more ability or more Yeah, the
kid who grew up on the tough side of the street,

(49:02):
who had to work hard his whole life, for her
whole life, yeah, you know, has an advantage over this
kid who grew up with a silver spoon in their mouth.
Really Okay, you think it's an advantage, but they never
had it tough. Everything was given to him. And when
life gets tough, how are they going to react. I

(49:25):
have a friend that's a professor at one of the
leading schools, and he sits there and he looks at
the class the first day and he says to himself,
who got into the school because of their family? And
who got into the school because of their ability? That's
what he does the first week, can he tell? And

(49:46):
after a month he starts to think how long will
it be before the kid that got there because of
his family is working for the kid that got there
because of his ability.

Speaker 5 (50:00):
I'm talking about And.

Speaker 4 (50:00):
So when you say today, what are the most valuable
companies in the world, you have a guy named Jensen
Wage that has the most valuable company in the world
called Navidia. He didn't grow up with anything. He came
to this country and Jeff Bezos and Steve Jobs was adopted.

Speaker 5 (50:20):
Jordan Jordanian immigrant as father is at.

Speaker 4 (50:22):
Jordanian Yeah, so you know they had this drive.

Speaker 5 (50:27):
Yeah. So so, Michael, as we this has been fabulous.
I want to have you come back as we wrap
this up. I want to leave. I want them to.
I want them to know something cursonal about you that
is an insecurity of fear, of something that you grew
up with growing as a young person, that there was
an insecurity or fear that you turned into a factor

(50:48):
for success sometimes that you took it from a negative
to a positive, that people can relate to it before
you get to that.

Speaker 4 (50:53):
Uh.

Speaker 3 (50:54):
I want to drop the Michael on this because you
used to talk a little bit about immigrants. I believe
that twenty percent of all Fortune five hundred founders. I
believe that numbers still correct are immigrants.

Speaker 4 (51:05):
I believe I know that CEO or founders. CEOs or founders.

Speaker 3 (51:10):
Got it, and you do you have. It's not about
this is not about some soft, sup soft soap moral thing.
You believe from a straight business perspective that that folks
coming in from Africa or wherever with that drive and
that innovation is good for the economy. You've got some
numbers that are just unbelievable. Can you just drop some

(51:32):
of the numbers. We like math here because it doesn't
have an opinion. Drop some of the numbers of.

Speaker 4 (51:38):
That.

Speaker 3 (51:38):
People don't know about the demographic realities and the demographic trends.

Speaker 5 (51:42):
As we begin to wrap this up, bring us home
with some powerful numbers.

Speaker 4 (51:47):
As you start thinking about America today. In the nineteen sixties,
seventy five percent of everyone not born in America was
born in Europe. They were Caucasian. Okay, Today, less than
ten percent of the people in America who were not
born here were born in Europe. There are more people

(52:08):
born in Africa than were born in Europe. In America,
Nigerians are one of the most entrepreneurial, highest performing groups economically.
There's a plus and a minus to that. Many of
the great Nigerian entrepreneurs are here. They're not building their

(52:31):
business in Nigeria because they felt they had a better
upside here. They're still great. I did a podcast in Africa.
We had three million people in Nigeria alone who defined
themselves as entrepreneurs.

Speaker 3 (52:48):
Wow.

Speaker 4 (52:49):
And so it's changed. Yes, the largest group that's here
today was born in Latin America or born in Asia,
and so they are performing. The highest performing educational group
in the world as a country of Singapore. As a
country might be South Korea, but there's a group in

(53:12):
America today that outperforms all of them. And that is
South Koreans in America who have come here, they have
a higher output education output than South Koreans in South Korea.
And Kenyans and Nigerians and people from Ghana do fabulous here.

(53:33):
And so it's a question of giving an opportunity. And
that's my view. If we're going to build a place
that's a the ideal of this stream of upward mobility
to the world. This shining light, and we have to
shine bright for everyone in this country, and you and

(53:54):
I underland what that means. And our future leaders are
probably kids that are born in lower socio economic place.
They've had hard knocks. I've hired a lot of smart people,
but I always teamed them up with a person from
the greatest school, the school of hard knocks, so that

(54:15):
they're amazing what they could accomplish together.

Speaker 3 (54:19):
I don't know, Mike, If again we've around of time,
this has been a fabulous conversation, maybe we can do
a part two or probably three. I don't really know
if you can have a leading economy or very specific
I don't know that America continue to be the light
on the hill, the biggest economy and soul superpower all
that without the economic juice of all that you just
talked about, all leaned in with everybody else. Are European

(54:43):
brothers and sisters, are Africans or Latinos, women, all these Asians,
all these different groups, everybody fulfilling their potential, which is
what have been the promise of America since its beginning.
I don't think that we it's going to be it's
gonna be easy to continue to keep this party going
if we don't open the app keep the window open

(55:04):
for opportunity, and keep the ladder down to the ground.
And it just seems to me those numbers to sort
of scream at that reality. And I'm actually quite hopeful
for the future.

Speaker 4 (55:18):
John. We have to keep two windows open. One the
window of opportunity for everyone in this country to give
them a chance, because, as you stated earlier, intellect is
evenly distributed. It's in Selma, Alabama. Okay, it's in Tallahassee, Florida.
And we got to make sure it's not just in

(55:40):
Silicon Valley or in New York City. And second, we
got to keep the window of opportunity for those that
want to come to this country. So when you come
to the center, we have a three story Trump Lloyd
painting of sixty eight people that came from fifty eight
countries to this and became citizens and changed the world.

(56:03):
We also have former President Bushes paintings of immigrants that
came to this country. So we want to just stress
how important that is.

Speaker 5 (56:14):
The President Bush is the painter.

Speaker 4 (56:17):
Well he's but he painted people that came to this country.
They came for freedom, they came from a better life
and that. And we also have to face the fact
that the birth rate in America is in an all
time low and the number of children. So if we
don't have immigrants, the number of people living in this

(56:39):
country is going to drop by forty to fifty million.

Speaker 5 (56:43):
Wow. Okay, so we are wait between their.

Speaker 4 (56:46):
Energy and I think for some of your viewers, if
you go online and google President Reagan's last speech in
the White House about the importance of immigration to this country.
So unfortunately you and others have relatives that came to

(57:09):
this country not by choice as slaves, but many of
them have risen up, and we need to make sure
more and more rise up. And I'll tell you right now,
when I go to a sports event and there's still
if I go and watch the Lakers play. They're still

(57:29):
wearing Kobe jerseys. Whether they're white, whether Hispanic, whether they're black,
whether they're Asian, they all have got their Kobe because
to them, Okay, he wasn't black, he was just a
fantastic basketball player. And I think sports is a very

(57:52):
interesting thing. John, and I think COVID really hurt the
country because we weren't going to sports events. And the
story once, as I travel around to more than five
hundred baseball games to raise money for Kanser research, I
was in Chicago at the CUB game and their star

(58:12):
player hit a home run in the late innings and
they beat their arch rival, the Saint Louis Cardinals. Everybody
was dancing in the stadium. They were hugging. They weren't
worried about what your relationship was. They weren't worried about
your religion, they weren't worried about your race. Their team

(58:33):
had just won, and they stayed in the stadium for
almost thirty minutes after the game, cheering. It's amazing how
things bring people together. And I think part of our
problems today because of COVID is we had a whole
year when people never filled they were together or won.

(58:58):
They never experienced their team winning in person, and seeing
you win and others is a great role model for
so many of them. And I couldn't be more excited
to be on your podcast, and I look forward to
any time in the future you want to do it well.

Speaker 5 (59:18):
I love you, brother, and I'd love to have you
back anytime that you have time. I know you're busy
as we wrap this up, Mike, and this has been
a great, great session, and I'll see you at this
opening and many times on the road doing great things together.

Speaker 3 (59:31):
From the streets to the suits and back. I want
to say this, you're one of the three hundred. This
is my statement. It makes you uncomfortable. You probably wanted
the three hundred wealthiest people in the world. It's eight
billion people in the world. That puts you in an
elite club. And with all the other stuff that you've done,

(59:52):
the audience might feel there's no way I can relate
to that guy. Yeah, he's like a Martian or something.
He's just you know, he's just a complete outlier. And
so it is a nice story, but it doesn't relate
to me. I need to knock you down a few levels.
I need to bring you down so that people can touch, you,
can feel, you can relate to your story, so they

(01:00:13):
get fired about their own, fired about their own. Is
there something that you can share that spoke to a
moment where you did not see the light, where you
did not feel right, and somebody helped you turn it around.

Speaker 4 (01:00:31):
Well, there's plenty of those stories. John, You know that
young African American man I met in nineteen sixty five
turned me around. I thought I knew everything. I was
at Berkeley, we just had the free speech movement. I
was going to run the space program, and he told
me I didn't really know meeting a person. When I

(01:00:53):
taught school to autistic kids, I thought I was a
great teacher. And what I did was I was covering
too many topics. I didn't stay on topic. They were
not responding to all this different input. So I had
a big lesson there. When I celebrated our kids in

(01:01:14):
Harlem in the nineteen eighties, our scholars, I decided, we're
going to make them special. We're going to have a
black tie affair. We're going to show them how special
they were. Then I discovered their parents weren't coming. They
didn't have a suit forget a black tie. Okay, So

(01:01:36):
I switched it to Sylvia's in Harlem and I sent
out a note no ties or jackets allowed. Okay, we're
going to celebrate. So I'm constantly learning. And I would
say this that you're in different environments and when you

(01:01:56):
put yourself into a different environment, that's why we have
two ears, John, so we can hear twice as much
as speak. You and I have done a lot of talking.
But I'm learning. And when I watch those little kids
come in and see what is affecting them, what do
they think, I'm learning from that and I'm also therefore

(01:02:21):
can adjust what did they take away from it. That's
why I go and sit on the floors. I'm not
going to sit in a chair. I'm not going to
sit up above them. A lot of times when I
want to talk to kids, I tell them, let's go
sit on the floor.

Speaker 5 (01:02:37):
Right.

Speaker 4 (01:02:37):
And so I'm you learn. There is this famous phrase
and meaning in the back and that is you learn
more from your students then you learn from anything else.
And so interacting with students and I've learned a lot
from you over the years, John, and I'm going to
keep learning and I'm going to do even better job.

(01:03:00):
But I want you to know money does not buy happiness.
It buys freedom, right, but it doesn't buy happiness. Right.
And you can buy I've told you you can buy
a house, but it doesn't make it.

Speaker 5 (01:03:14):
A home, that's right.

Speaker 4 (01:03:16):
It's the people in it that make it a home,
that's right. And so you and I can make a
list of a lot of wealthy people. All they have
is unhappiness in their life.

Speaker 5 (01:03:27):
Whoo and you speaking a word, then we.

Speaker 3 (01:03:32):
Have been to those places together, be very very unhappy
seemingly wealthy, financially wealthy people. Look, this has been an
incredibly special session together. And I hope that the audience
is half as inspired as I have been. And you
connected a dot from me. I had not put these
two things together. But you are really I mean, you

(01:03:54):
have such a strong personality and such a strong view,
and you're so intelligent. Most people just leave you alone
and let you riff because and I guess I'm the
same way. My wife caused me a double alpha. People
let me go and they go and let John lead,
let Mike lead. But when you and I are together,
we mix it up. People don't know this. We're on
the phone. You're telling me something. I may say, Mike,
I disagree with that, respectfully. Or I may say something

(01:04:15):
you say, John. Just two days ago, you said, John,
I think there's another way of doing that. How about
this idea. I didn't agree with you initially. Well it's
maybe four days ago, but I.

Speaker 5 (01:04:23):
Agree with you now.

Speaker 3 (01:04:24):
And there's been situations where I said something you said, well,
I'm not sure about that, John, and then a month
later I hear you saying something.

Speaker 5 (01:04:29):
You say, well, you know, I've changed my view.

Speaker 3 (01:04:31):
So we learn from each other because we're nosy and
we're constantly learning, both of us. But I didn't ascribe
that to you. I assumed I was a student. Well,
I just learned, and I'm learning something. And also every time,
including today, Mike is a lifetime learner.

Speaker 5 (01:04:47):
That's his key. I want everybody listening to this to
be a lifetime learner. I want you to be nosy.

Speaker 3 (01:04:52):
I want you to know that, as he said, God
gave you two ears in one mouth, you listen twice
as much as you talk. And I want you to
be nosy, curious and obsessed with your version of the
renewal of the American dream, and that starts with you
going to see the new Milk and Center at the
Advancement in the American Dream in Washington, d c our

(01:05:15):
Nation's capital that belongs to us people, all of us.
Or see you at the finish line when you go there,
asking Mike's around, if he's around, if she'll come down
and shake your hand, take a picture.

Speaker 4 (01:05:27):
What we do know is they'll get to talk to
you and see you and that finance killer.

Speaker 5 (01:05:34):
Yeah, suppose you guys, let me know.

Speaker 3 (01:05:36):
You let me know whether they somebody snatchs me off
of the off of the presentation board.

Speaker 5 (01:05:41):
Mike tells me out there, this has been a great session.

Speaker 3 (01:05:44):
This is Money and Wealth on the Black Effect Network
on the iHeart platform, a global platform for this podcast,
Money and Wealth Season two with Michael Milkin. Money and

(01:06:10):
Wealth with John O'Brien is a production of the Black
Effect Podcast Network. For more podcasts from the Black Effect
Podcast Network, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever
you listen to your favorite shows.

Speaker 2 (01:07:51):
Thanks for listening and celebrating five years of the Black
Effect Podcast Network with us. Keep following you because the
next five years are about to be even bigger.