October 30, 2025 • 34 mins
In this episode, we trade boardrooms for the racetrack as John sits down with CEO and founder of Shopify, Tobi Lütke. Recorded trackside at Road Atlanta during Petit Le Mans, the roar of engines underscores a deep conversation about passion, precision, and pushing past fear. John and Tobi reveal the secrets of racing that extend far beyond speed — from real-time data feedback and team trust to the mental resilience required to perform at the edge of physics. They explore how motorsport reshapes leadership, sharpens decision-making, and reconnects high-performers with authenticity and courage.
Buckle up. This ride might change the way you work, lead, and live. 🏁🔥
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome the Money in Wealth with John O'Bryant, a production
of The Black Effect Podcast Network and iHeartRadio. Hey, hey,
John O'Brien, I'm here, my brother from another mother, my
friend Toby looking. Now you know Toby from Shopify. He's
(00:22):
a founder and he's done an incredible job with that company.
It's amazing, and we're honing to be a partner with
him and operation which has created almost a half million
created nurture supported almost a half million businesses. That's not
what we're here today. If you hear that racket in
the background, those are race cars and it's an attentional noise.
(00:45):
It doesn't bother us. We actually like it. It's very
calm and coincidence is God's way. Many anonymous it's and
Andrew Young quote. I didn't know he raced. He didn't
know that. I have a racing license and he's a
real racer. I'm I'm working at it, but I've run
a couple of races, club racing things like that in
(01:06):
Europe and Africa or whatever. But this guy is a
real legit race car driver and he just killed it
here at wrote Atlanta for Petite Lemon, and I was like,
we gotta get the we gotta get the audience to
understand the magic of this, and we're gonna show you
on track and show some of that cool footage. My
man is killing the game. But if people don't really
(01:28):
understand motorsports one, it is one of the most stressful
or you use every party your bodies, one of the
one of the most energized sports in the world, and
one of the top four or five where you use every.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
Party of hysic.
Speaker 3 (01:44):
It's mental to challenge endurance racing specifically, it's like, I mean,
it's unlike anything else I do. I've never owned anything
like that, but I love it.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
It's it's also.
Speaker 3 (01:57):
As a it's a it's like every race team is
a small business and like no one, no one at
a track there against their wealth. It's everyone is passionate.
It's incredible.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
It's like so often but you like, you talk with
any of the mechanics.
Speaker 3 (02:16):
About any detail of a car, and they can, They
will be able to spend hours and hours and hours
talking about part They will eventually become all sorts of
philosophical about the particular part.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
It's just like it's it's this one.
Speaker 3 (02:31):
It's wonderful to be surrounded by people who give a
ship and really really really.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
Put here, giving a ship and care into a product
of any sorts.
Speaker 3 (02:39):
And at a race track, it's it's it's all like this,
especially about amazing events like.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
AECH and when when Toby comes here, when I go
to a track, we're no longer the CEO or the
founder or this or that. We're both founders of organizations.
We're just race card exactly, and we just want respect that.
And what Toby got out of the car, he had
a situation. Don't worry, Fianna. He was safe. He had
a situa. We had a situation. So another car in
(03:07):
front of him, he who knew very well, and he
lost a couple of seconds on whatever, which irritates us
when it happens. But when he got himself composed for
a minute, he's like, damn, it was great. That was
so much fun.
Speaker 3 (03:19):
Right, I'm out there and I just like like, I'm like,
I can't.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
Even believe you get to do this, this is even possible.
Speaker 3 (03:27):
It's it's I mean, especially this is a very storied
race here for decades, and and they have fifty two
different cars.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
There's free races at the.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
Same time in the same three different three different races,
get inside the same race, and it's.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
A ten hour race, three drivers to car, and.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
He just did three stints, which means forty five minutes
times three. And he thought, and he sat up with
the radio that he thought it was like he felt
like it was just fifty minutes. And he dropped five
pounds by the way cash.
Speaker 3 (04:01):
So I asked, uh, a race contract, have I radio
connection right like a button on the steering wheel, and
hit back and talked to them, and I asked how
much driving time I've done?
Speaker 2 (04:11):
Because every driver.
Speaker 3 (04:12):
Asked a minimum of I think two and a half hours,
and they told me twenty minutes. I'm like, God, damn it,
that like just clearly this fed longer, like this is
this is hard. I didn't we have liked And then
like I asked again, how much driving time have I done?
Speaker 2 (04:29):
It's like, turns out it's twenty.
Speaker 3 (04:32):
I was already in it for two hours ten, So
it's twenty minutes for.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
Minimum driving time, right, And I just didn't.
Speaker 3 (04:41):
Like, I couldn't believe it because it just felt like,
I mean, it felt like forty minutes.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
That's why I felt like and I notice everybody we
have said a thing about speed, well nothing about going fast.
It is uh for people like Toby and myself where
we are multitasking, multi thinking. We can do four things
at the same time. Golf. I mean, there's nothing wrong golf,
golf school. But we would get distracted, we'd be on
(05:07):
our phones, might be you know, we be cut. This
feels whatever. You cannot focus on something else on this race.
When you're in a race car, it is, it takes risks,
it demands respect. I've never said this to him, but
I'm gonna say if it resonates when I'm in a
race car, it's like Buddhism at one hundred and sixty
miles an hour.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
That's exactly right, that's fun, it's centers. It's just I mean,
I also find it as everything else.
Speaker 3 (05:37):
That people do at the top level, right, like it's
it does fear into the philosophical I just find this
always happens, like it's just like things that you're doing racing,
like better genuinely good life advices. So like basically you
can like you can't win a race in the first corner,
(05:57):
but you can lose it.
Speaker 1 (05:59):
Mm hmm.
Speaker 3 (06:00):
That's pretty good. That's pretty good matter for life. Yeah, absolutely,
it's like just figure out what matters. I also just
find like I mean, at the end of the day
we drive these.
Speaker 2 (06:13):
The more prototype cars.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
And MP tools and either downforce cars. You they look
like spaceships to you. Basically it looks.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
A bit different from a car on the street. If
you've seen.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
Them, are.
Speaker 3 (06:29):
And I mean those cars at the end of the
day connected to the ground with like four plane card
sized patches of rubber. That's that's an entire connect connection
to planet Earth.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
You have and and.
Speaker 3 (06:44):
You are trying like there is amount of resistance that
you can invest in driving forward, growing laterally sideways, steer wheel.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
But there's like racing cars different from a normal car.
Where like a normal car, so it.
Speaker 3 (07:01):
Starts when you get to the limit and you ask
much of it, you will start feeling this a race car,
Sta stays poort, they are planted, they go.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
It's it's not the has my power that's so crazy
in these cars.
Speaker 3 (07:16):
It's actually the one hundred and thirty going to a
turn like we like it's this four and a half
geesus of like that's pulling you sideways.
Speaker 1 (07:27):
Rod is going that way and you're going your body's
going yeah.
Speaker 3 (07:30):
And you have to like just now, that downforce will
push you, like your car could drive on a ceiling
if it wanted to, Like it's that much downforce. And
here wrote Atlanta, you have to throw it into two
and one and you basically have to go full throttle
and any normal reality the car would actually like you're
you're driving at a wall, except that there's a hill
(07:53):
and a compression and that cauts even more stick and
then it grips and a car takes it, and you
just have to believe that that's happening.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
Physics, physics, financial literacy, really of course math, spirituality. It's
it's look, you may not believe in God, but you
praying the God when you find God the cockpit. So faith, physics, math, technology,
(08:22):
attention attention focus strategy. That's a strategy in it multitasking,
it's also predictive of it.
Speaker 3 (08:31):
You need to understand what everyone knows around your doors,
like so you need to like you need to learn
about other people. It actually helps them lot getting to
know of other drivers because you know who's in the
cars around you, and you know what they're like.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
Are they more aggressive?
Speaker 3 (08:45):
They you know, like doing player long games and.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
Yeah, it's actually community.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
It's a community. Yeah. And and the only race in
racing is racing. You put them on. Nobody knows what ethnicity,
what what gender you are? Are you a good driver?
Are you not? Are you are? Do people look at
you and say, let's stay away from that guy or not?
Your reputation and you're interconnected, You're you're you're you're dependent
(09:15):
in some ways. You depend in some ways on your
team mechanics, those four patches of rubber, those tires are
I mean, you think about this like you gotta be
you gotta be one with the car. Like you're feeling
in your butt, you're filling the road, You're filling the pedals,
You're feeling the gearing. You're hearing the gearing the engines.
(09:35):
When when the ship win, the break the g forces all.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
That uh which is the.
Speaker 1 (09:42):
Lateral uh pressure. You hear about those in player planes.
You don't hear about the race cars, but they're very
same philosophies. The said you can turn the car upside
down and you know, stickle on the sea level. It
is very spiritual. I get out of a race car
and I just feel so and you were you were
an entire vacation.
Speaker 4 (10:00):
Yeah, it's an entire vacation has all elements in it.
I mean it's clear enough for everyone.
Speaker 3 (10:15):
But like I I, I just love it's like it's
it's one of the greatest hobbies. Also just because I mean,
this is the most wonderful thing about it doing spacing.
There's a like system there, like I'm a bronze driver,
which means I'm.
Speaker 2 (10:29):
Sort of a pro am.
Speaker 1 (10:31):
It means he's very very good. He's no punk, he's
a very good driver pro essentially a pro as much
of as much of a pro as an amateur can be.
Who's running a copy?
Speaker 3 (10:42):
What what trying? Right, I'm trying to trying to do that. Yes,
in my good labs and.
Speaker 1 (10:49):
We're going to show your laps.
Speaker 3 (10:50):
So don't worry other people. I'm sharing the cover, you know.
David Hannam my hands and silver driver. He's been a
silver he's been He's done the twenty four urs for
more twelve fourteen times.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
Silver.
Speaker 3 (11:05):
The driver is like extremely accomplished. Like again, when you
when you win too much, great way upgrade youo. So
so you have your bronze in the ground is silver
and then the gold.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
Is a professional money. Platinum is the highest.
Speaker 3 (11:17):
Platinum is like the Formula one guys, And so we
can have a gold or platinum in our car.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
And so it's it's a spot. We are team members.
Like it's not like.
Speaker 3 (11:28):
If you hear about Formula one, they have two cars
and the two teammates actually are the biggest competitors. They're
only the same. In doance racing, we are switching. We
are doing driver switches.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
Text us nineteen seconds to switch a driver.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
There's another teammates on the on the road right now.
Speaker 3 (11:45):
The race is still another what is it? Yeah, hey, yeah,
it's gonna get dark. So this story Atlanta is so
it's it's it gets really dark. Ye I've done dark
testing because happy driver has to do at least four
laps in the dark here to be allowed to go.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
And it's like that's a cool experience. But I'm like,
I'm like, just like, luckily this track has been.
Speaker 3 (12:07):
Here since the early eighties or like seventies. No one's
gonna remove the track behind this corner. But I have
no possibility of seeing it. I just have to believe.
I have to believe it's still there, and no one's
fun that's also right in front of right and lost
lost the power and over lights. So so anyway, like
(12:28):
this is kind of stuff that happens in racing, and
you do it with good class pros all about jows
like on every race many times, and like so it's
it's wonderful to do us a hobby sport.
Speaker 2 (12:40):
With pros together and.
Speaker 3 (12:43):
Just because he'll learned so quickly and everyone's there to
you know, help the bronze is to get faster because
having a fast bronze helps you a lots and biscuits and.
Speaker 1 (12:51):
So you're wonderfu a bronze and a silver and a
silver is the team. And how does this make make
you better in your family? How does it make you
better in your business? For people who think that we
are like, why would you do that? You know, I
know why I do it, but why does it make
(13:13):
you better? I think?
Speaker 3 (13:15):
I mean, I've learned a lot from from from from racing.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
I like, I mean, obviously I would do it without
any of these kind of things.
Speaker 3 (13:23):
But there's like I just find whenever you get in
contact and study anything that humans do at at a
crazy level, you just find either a new versions of
the same lessons that you've already learned in other ways
that sort of flash out of the picture will come
across like completely new new ideas. I'm honestly, I personally,
(13:47):
I'm incredibly you run a tech company, so I thought
we were really really you know, data driven and excellent
at this kind of thing. And then I joined the
professional racing team and the way they study the car,
the telemetry that they have, there's I mean there's like
six engineers looking at swiggly lines on screens to just
(14:10):
figure out how the car is doing and give feedback
and monitor everything. And like this sort of immediacy of
like feedback is I went to one of my teams saying, hey,
come to the next race, have a look at how
this you need this for shop?
Speaker 2 (14:25):
This is exactly how he should run the.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
Company, right, immediate feedback, immediately, like.
Speaker 3 (14:30):
Just make it visceral, like like like latency makes everything
so hard to relate to, right, Just like this is
a small example, but also just like how things are organized,
how clear the jobs are by everyone. There's like one
engineer who owns the front of a car and one
engineer who owns back of a car, and then there's
one major race engineer.
Speaker 2 (14:49):
Who makes it.
Speaker 3 (14:50):
It's it's everyone has their has their role, and texting
bright their role. And I think all of this is inspiring,
so so and all of this is RELI.
Speaker 1 (15:01):
And it probably makes you nicer when you get home.
We will we won't ask me all to that later.
I know. She changed her like, yeah, go to the
track for me.
Speaker 2 (15:11):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (15:15):
I always thought I was real. I always thought, but
because I was so different from everybody else around me,
my version of real, I'm like, Okay, well maybe I'm
just wrong in my version of real. I didn't like BS.
I like stripping away the BS into what's real. When
I got into a race car, I thought I understood
the philosophy of life. But when I got into a
race car, it challenged me in ways. That was like
(15:37):
when I was when I was struggling as a kid.
Like it was you can't play around in a race car.
You can't mess around. It doesn't care who you are,
your reputation, you're net worth, your none of that matters.
So you get out of it, You're like, maybe I
am who I think I am because I just did that,
and you can't fake that. It calms it strips away
(16:00):
all the stuff is not it's very authentic.
Speaker 3 (16:03):
It is authatic. It's and nothing. Everything is real and nothing.
Nothing is a lie, you know, Just like there is
a theoretical best lab time out there, it's completely impossible
for human to reach it, and it's your actual lab time.
(16:26):
The difference between bad lab time and your lab time
is the sum total of all your little inadequacies. And
and but then the next lap starts one minute fourteen
after the previous one.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
Starts, and then you have another shot.
Speaker 3 (16:43):
At it, and it's like you will find micro improvements.
You you just learn, learn to get better. It's like
I honestly, like, I mean, I'm like a lot of drivers.
Speaker 2 (16:58):
Really really really just like I want.
Speaker 3 (17:00):
To win, which I totally respect, I feel like compete
against I.
Speaker 2 (17:07):
I to me, drivers are actually kind of.
Speaker 3 (17:10):
Obstacles, that's right, that's right, and they make it more interesting.
But like I just want to do a really good
job because I I'm part of a team and like I,
you know, everyone there is relying on what I'm doing
in the car, and I have to deliver bring the
car functioning car ideally at a good place in the
race to my court drivers. And then they do their thing,
(17:31):
and then I will hop into the car again and
do it again and again be together.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
And this is.
Speaker 1 (17:38):
Brimmers went a business management team, board, directors, shareholders, customers,
very much like everybody, you know what we want to deliver,
we want to bring it back and something else again.
We never talked about this. For me, it's not about
going fast or about the competitor smooth.
Speaker 3 (17:53):
It's fast exactly, yeah, it's it's not like just throwing
in the run smooth as fast this. I don't know
if that makes sense, but you only have like I mean, you.
Speaker 2 (18:05):
You have a frontle, you have a break usually use
your two legs for voice, and then you have a
steering bell.
Speaker 1 (18:11):
Yeah are you saying yeah?
Speaker 3 (18:13):
So like that also that's just as fast like the
the steering wheel that goes like this and this. That's
it like it's it's I mean, it couldn't be uh simpler,
but that makes it not easy, right, and it just tells.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
You how far you like, Like, there's no like.
Speaker 3 (18:36):
Simplicity and h and difficulty are completely uncorrelated. In fact,
usually simplicity allows people to get like to to to
to reach further because it's this is not a lot
of pedal inputs like like the trade like afterwards if
then your view, there's a video, here's my what like
the break, how much brake pedal was pushed, Here's how
(18:57):
much front was pushed, and you know what the steering
angle was right, and we look for relapse and then
overlay someone else's maybe a poor.
Speaker 2 (19:06):
Driver's lap and it trust you. Okay, yeah you could
have actually.
Speaker 3 (19:11):
Break a little bit later, a little bit harder you trace,
but it be different and then you just learn and
you go out and try it again and you improve,
and I just think it's really really fun and also
like it's fun to be better stuff, and it's really
really fun to get better at stuff that's right. And
so yeah, you get to do this every every weekend.
(19:31):
Every time you get to Paul Newman.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
Who is a bit of an inspiration from Toby and I.
You know it as a famous actor, some of you do.
He was actually he was most proud of being a
race car driver, and he started racing at fifty basically
I did. And he won his last race in eighty
two or eighty three, and he was an hourly good
(19:54):
but he started out.
Speaker 2 (19:54):
Knowing not good in eighty three when he wor.
Speaker 1 (19:57):
Eighty three yes, which like streen cray, it's incredible, incredible,
and uh, he said. It was this great quote when
they asked why do you do auto racing, he said,
it's the only sport I was ever elegant at. I
wasn't great at basketball. I wasn't I was a tackling
dummy in a football whatever. But I feel elegant. And
(20:19):
it's for all stuff we've already said. But it is
quite fascinating and it's amazing, and it's underrated. It is
his own world. And she said, each one of these
financial finishing literacy that point, each one of these trailers,
you see, it's his own l C liability, corporate insurance.
It has profit profit laws, balance sheet income statements, sponsors,
(20:41):
it has assets.
Speaker 3 (20:43):
Cumans pots, supply chains, technology, absolutely everything. And every team
is trying to find the next thing. There's a lot
of innovation in there. Like the teams that do best,
other teams that have the type of race engineers that
never settle, and like people who are not motivated again
by just looking good in comparison to the others, or
(21:06):
like being in the field. It's the ones with drivings
further that end up doing it like the ones who
are intrinsically motivated, which is like try to build a
perfect car for the work because cars are ba is
complicatedly set up right like theres entire bood people getting
dive into on setups.
Speaker 2 (21:23):
But suffice to say that like innovation is a big
part of that.
Speaker 3 (21:26):
Creativity is a big part of figure outside of the
boxes is a big part of it.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
There's a world book that exists.
Speaker 3 (21:33):
And in most of industry the engineers are there to
look at the specifications and build something that conforms to
the specifications. And hospital job in racing is it's the
one there. It's a competition between the specification.
Speaker 2 (21:52):
And the engineer. It's the engineer, like it's the type.
Speaker 3 (21:56):
It's a rare type of engineer that likes to break rules,
will find find ways how to stretch for rules. And
there's you know Formula one as well, in like has a.
Speaker 2 (22:07):
Long document history where's Adrian Luis built many.
Speaker 3 (22:10):
Of the best casts in the worlds and like Senner's
McLaren and Brazil exactly and and and best up and
uh recently winning cars.
Speaker 2 (22:24):
And he wrote a book how to Build a Car,
which I recommend.
Speaker 3 (22:28):
It's it's just the story of someone who takes the
new formula and it's called formula one. It's like takes
for six out pages, was still college with the drawing
board and starts drawing parts.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
But he thinks do the best job. And so I
mean that is like eracing has all sorts of interesting
characters in it.
Speaker 3 (22:50):
It's a it's a niche for ah lots of types
of people who I don't know where else it would
be kind of people who like, they've broken the car
and then if I don't, they talked to friends about car,
and then they drive home in their car and then
probably meet some friends of what bes to talk about
cars and watch the race, and then go in the
(23:11):
shop and broke.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
On their product car.
Speaker 3 (23:13):
It's all that right, and it's it's also wonderful to
support that kind of who really deep desire that something
like this is possible.
Speaker 1 (23:22):
Yes, yes, you've got for Savin who sees his fashion
or his his artwork in the car. You've got Lewis
Hamilton who sees fashion, uh design, really designing the car
(23:46):
and designing the world. And they're both great drivers, just
different styles and and different approaches.
Speaker 2 (23:52):
It's increasingly real fashion usually like on the festival. He's
doing really well? Is it?
Speaker 1 (23:58):
Lowis Hamilton's has has a shop of.
Speaker 2 (24:00):
Us doers, has in readimal stuff.
Speaker 1 (24:03):
He does have incredible size and he did a great
job of this f one movie.
Speaker 2 (24:06):
It's fantastic, isn't that great?
Speaker 1 (24:08):
I watched it throughout three times. My father in law's
watched it four times. He's here, He's here, Doctor Dalton's here.
Blown as this whole thing is blown as my.
Speaker 3 (24:16):
I mean I did the race that starts the movie right,
like it's like the twenty four hours, that's right, Rolics
twenty four.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
I've done this.
Speaker 3 (24:23):
I've done literally the walk he does from its trailer
and via currently in trailer at the race track. So
this is my version of the first scene I the
longer movie.
Speaker 2 (24:33):
It's yes, and so I've done this walk at.
Speaker 3 (24:35):
Two am to the race and they captured it really
really well. So I mean this I also love, like,
like what a wonderful celebration of endurance racing before it
Ben gets into Formula one, which you know we started.
Speaker 1 (24:49):
So anybody who's not clear endurance racing, so sprint racing
is what it sounds like, a sprint endurance racing is
two hours, six hours, twelve hours, twenty.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
Four hours, twenty four hours of Lama is the biggest race.
Speaker 3 (25:04):
I'm doing Space in the wood Rolex twenty four so
it's one of the biggest, probably second biggest. And Kirv
I like the peteam Lamar which is in Atlanta, right Atlanta,
which is a ten hour race.
Speaker 1 (25:18):
Right for anybody who likes to lose weight, here's this
is the sport for you. You lose five to ten
pounds in.
Speaker 2 (25:27):
The day in a long stanp if it's hot.
Speaker 1 (25:30):
So you just did three forty five minutes stance. My
guess is you lost forty five pounds easily.
Speaker 2 (25:34):
Easily. Yeah, I'll have to get that back.
Speaker 1 (25:37):
So yeah, we're gonna go eat now and get some
of that back. When he got out, he had a wet,
a cold cold pack around his neck like an ice pack. Yes,
because you're at over one hundred degrees.
Speaker 2 (25:49):
In the it gets really it's costing.
Speaker 1 (25:52):
As we wrap up, tell you give the audience one
or two examples of leadership lessons you've learned learned in
the car that you can that you By the way,
my man has already brought Shopify to and NASCAR, he's
got shopping. He's bringing his business to wherever he goes,
and Shopify is already starting to dominate the space. I
(26:15):
didn't even know Louise Emine shop Why Why am I surprised?
But what is what is a leadership lesson that you've
learned from from being a race meg?
Speaker 2 (26:26):
What I.
Speaker 3 (26:29):
From my core drivers were much more experience than me.
The quality and the directors offer feedback back if any
get out of a car like but just like the
small like like we we have a ritual of like
after every session, go through it and the race engineer
comes and just listens and he's basically he runs he
(26:49):
runs the car right and just listen to a driver
and he go through every turn and any any any feedback.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
And then like he doesn't do the things ask him to.
Speaker 3 (27:00):
He ignores every suggestion, which like like like that is
also a good leadership.
Speaker 2 (27:06):
But he understands.
Speaker 3 (27:07):
Every He will understand quacklum under the problem. If we
talk about symptoms like understeering, he understands the car at.
Speaker 2 (27:15):
A completely different level.
Speaker 3 (27:17):
And then he goes back and tells the team to
do nothing of the sorts of what we said, and
somehow magically the car is now more pointy or like.
Speaker 1 (27:25):
Unsure means that you turn the car, but it does
not turn with you as much as you'd like. It
overshares the other the opposite problem.
Speaker 3 (27:32):
Those are all terms like what do they mean? Doesn't matter.
It's just like a race car drivers give feedback to
each other. And but like it's it's this thing of
like this, observe like this.
Speaker 2 (27:46):
It's an like if you if you come across like
observed object.
Speaker 3 (27:51):
So I can't actually go through the list. It just
means that it's basically one of us looping. You figure
out what's true, and then what are we doing our
out it, and then you do it, and then you
go back to us and just it's that and so
constantly improve, constantly improving, always chasing, never settling. That is
I really think that's I think you see this in
(28:14):
all the best teams.
Speaker 2 (28:16):
But it's it's a bit muted. It's it's it's in
the background. It's unacknowledged in a way.
Speaker 3 (28:22):
Sometimes people talk about it, but then they can go
for a long term not talking about it. In a
race cup, it's the entire thing. And then I think
this inversion is I think business.
Speaker 1 (28:34):
Would use this a little bit more so to summarize
what you're saying or wrap it up. We were talking
about earlier about how how things to be better at
the side, and you're saying, in his business, he'll take
a low performing group and basically say, Okay, this group
doesn't exist anymore. We created a new group. Now you
can apply to the new group. I encourage to apply
to the group or not. But I'm preting a new
(28:56):
group because I don't like this one was performing constantly improving,
and people always want to try to step up to
that new that that new group and perform and look
like they've been rebored exactly.
Speaker 3 (29:06):
It's a it's a refounding event. It's like it's it's
fun to be part of something new.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
It's it's it's.
Speaker 3 (29:13):
Stressful too to to try to bend something that's going
in a different direction. It takes a long time. It's
sordid work. Everyone knows. Okay, now we're gonna like to
change maagement for whatever. Like it's annoying. I found you
can compress all like I mean, you are compressing like
(29:34):
it's it's it's a it's a harder conversation to say, hey,
something ends. If you're doing something new, fifteen minutes of
deep uncertainty can replace months of abonue. And I think
that just is like it's it's it's way better for everyone,
and it's it's just more fun because now now you
get to say afterwards, it's booking everything is everyone's now
(29:56):
you knows it's a new department, this new thing, and
then you can say, for instance, your career is like
you have an art of you know, lay working with me,
working at that shopify refounding like a department that ended
up becoming an important part of company, and like that's
I mean that sounds better on your CV and like
(30:17):
just language twice, but it's also true.
Speaker 2 (30:19):
And I think that's like giving like creating as many
opportunities for people like that has.
Speaker 3 (30:24):
Been one of the things that has really been not
very obviously the journey and can be.
Speaker 1 (30:33):
Done absolutely inspiring. I hopefully you guys have gotten some
some fun that saw a fun part of Toby that
you would not have seen otherwise, but also learn a
little bit about life and leadership and courage. Courage what
you do basically what you do when you have all
the facts, but with really courages oftentimes what you do
(30:56):
be in spite of your insecurities and your fears. When
I first got into a race car, I was petrified,
but I wanted to overcome. Very few things scare me,
so I sort of was attracted to the fact that
here's this excellence, this excellence machine that I don't yet
master other people have. I think I can learn to
do it. I got to get out of my own way.
(31:17):
I got to get out of my own fear. I
got to believe and have competence with the tires can
system in myself, and then when all that comes together.
Speaker 3 (31:29):
Do something like I think my advice to everyone is like,
try to do hot things surrounded by friends. Like that
can be a company, it can be like a hobby.
And find the thing that like scares.
Speaker 2 (31:44):
You a little bit and it seems.
Speaker 3 (31:46):
Really hot and you know, you know good at because
writing up that, like learning crow is like it's been
entire point, it's the best thing in the world. It's
it's only annoying or it's only scary for a while
after you start climbing it.
Speaker 2 (32:00):
After you start yes nothing, yes you.
Speaker 1 (32:05):
You guys just got a masterclass. Don't have some food
is the more racing love and Life. Money and Wealth
(32:26):
with John O'Brien is a production of the Black Effect
podcast Network. For more podcasts from the Black Effect Podcast Network,
visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen
to your favorite shows. The Deep Deep
Welcome the Money in Wealth with John O'Bryant, a production
of The Black Effect Podcast Network and iHeartRadio. Hey, hey,
John O'Brien, I'm here, my brother from another mother, my
friend Toby looking. Now you know Toby from Shopify. He's
(00:22):
a founder and he's done an incredible job with that company.
It's amazing, and we're honing to be a partner with
him and operation which has created almost a half million
created nurture supported almost a half million businesses. That's not
what we're here today. If you hear that racket in
the background, those are race cars and it's an attentional noise.
(00:45):
It doesn't bother us. We actually like it. It's very
calm and coincidence is God's way. Many anonymous it's and
Andrew Young quote. I didn't know he raced. He didn't
know that. I have a racing license and he's a
real racer. I'm I'm working at it, but I've run
a couple of races, club racing things like that in
(01:06):
Europe and Africa or whatever. But this guy is a
real legit race car driver and he just killed it
here at wrote Atlanta for Petite Lemon, and I was like,
we gotta get the we gotta get the audience to
understand the magic of this, and we're gonna show you
on track and show some of that cool footage. My
man is killing the game. But if people don't really
(01:28):
understand motorsports one, it is one of the most stressful
or you use every party your bodies, one of the
one of the most energized sports in the world, and
one of the top four or five where you use every.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
Party of hysic.
Speaker 3 (01:44):
It's mental to challenge endurance racing specifically, it's like, I mean,
it's unlike anything else I do. I've never owned anything
like that, but I love it.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
It's it's also.
Speaker 3 (01:57):
As a it's a it's like every race team is
a small business and like no one, no one at
a track there against their wealth. It's everyone is passionate.
It's incredible.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
It's like so often but you like, you talk with
any of the mechanics.
Speaker 3 (02:16):
About any detail of a car, and they can, They
will be able to spend hours and hours and hours
talking about part They will eventually become all sorts of
philosophical about the particular part.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
It's just like it's it's this one.
Speaker 3 (02:31):
It's wonderful to be surrounded by people who give a
ship and really really really.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
Put here, giving a ship and care into a product
of any sorts.
Speaker 3 (02:39):
And at a race track, it's it's it's all like this,
especially about amazing events like.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
AECH and when when Toby comes here, when I go
to a track, we're no longer the CEO or the
founder or this or that. We're both founders of organizations.
We're just race card exactly, and we just want respect that.
And what Toby got out of the car, he had
a situation. Don't worry, Fianna. He was safe. He had
a situa. We had a situation. So another car in
(03:07):
front of him, he who knew very well, and he
lost a couple of seconds on whatever, which irritates us
when it happens. But when he got himself composed for
a minute, he's like, damn, it was great. That was
so much fun.
Speaker 3 (03:19):
Right, I'm out there and I just like like, I'm like,
I can't.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
Even believe you get to do this, this is even possible.
Speaker 3 (03:27):
It's it's I mean, especially this is a very storied
race here for decades, and and they have fifty two
different cars.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
There's free races at the.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
Same time in the same three different three different races,
get inside the same race, and it's.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
A ten hour race, three drivers to car, and.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
He just did three stints, which means forty five minutes
times three. And he thought, and he sat up with
the radio that he thought it was like he felt
like it was just fifty minutes. And he dropped five
pounds by the way cash.
Speaker 3 (04:01):
So I asked, uh, a race contract, have I radio
connection right like a button on the steering wheel, and
hit back and talked to them, and I asked how
much driving time I've done?
Speaker 2 (04:11):
Because every driver.
Speaker 3 (04:12):
Asked a minimum of I think two and a half hours,
and they told me twenty minutes. I'm like, God, damn it,
that like just clearly this fed longer, like this is
this is hard. I didn't we have liked And then
like I asked again, how much driving time have I done?
Speaker 2 (04:29):
It's like, turns out it's twenty.
Speaker 3 (04:32):
I was already in it for two hours ten, So
it's twenty minutes for.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
Minimum driving time, right, And I just didn't.
Speaker 3 (04:41):
Like, I couldn't believe it because it just felt like,
I mean, it felt like forty minutes.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
That's why I felt like and I notice everybody we
have said a thing about speed, well nothing about going fast.
It is uh for people like Toby and myself where
we are multitasking, multi thinking. We can do four things
at the same time. Golf. I mean, there's nothing wrong golf,
golf school. But we would get distracted, we'd be on
(05:07):
our phones, might be you know, we be cut. This
feels whatever. You cannot focus on something else on this race.
When you're in a race car, it is, it takes risks,
it demands respect. I've never said this to him, but
I'm gonna say if it resonates when I'm in a
race car, it's like Buddhism at one hundred and sixty
miles an hour.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
That's exactly right, that's fun, it's centers. It's just I mean,
I also find it as everything else.
Speaker 3 (05:37):
That people do at the top level, right, like it's
it does fear into the philosophical I just find this
always happens, like it's just like things that you're doing racing,
like better genuinely good life advices. So like basically you
can like you can't win a race in the first corner,
(05:57):
but you can lose it.
Speaker 1 (05:59):
Mm hmm.
Speaker 3 (06:00):
That's pretty good. That's pretty good matter for life. Yeah, absolutely,
it's like just figure out what matters. I also just
find like I mean, at the end of the day
we drive these.
Speaker 2 (06:13):
The more prototype cars.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
And MP tools and either downforce cars. You they look
like spaceships to you. Basically it looks.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
A bit different from a car on the street. If
you've seen.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
Them, are.
Speaker 3 (06:29):
And I mean those cars at the end of the
day connected to the ground with like four plane card
sized patches of rubber. That's that's an entire connect connection
to planet Earth.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
You have and and.
Speaker 3 (06:44):
You are trying like there is amount of resistance that
you can invest in driving forward, growing laterally sideways, steer wheel.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
But there's like racing cars different from a normal car.
Where like a normal car, so it.
Speaker 3 (07:01):
Starts when you get to the limit and you ask
much of it, you will start feeling this a race car,
Sta stays poort, they are planted, they go.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
It's it's not the has my power that's so crazy
in these cars.
Speaker 3 (07:16):
It's actually the one hundred and thirty going to a
turn like we like it's this four and a half
geesus of like that's pulling you sideways.
Speaker 1 (07:27):
Rod is going that way and you're going your body's
going yeah.
Speaker 3 (07:30):
And you have to like just now, that downforce will
push you, like your car could drive on a ceiling
if it wanted to, Like it's that much downforce. And
here wrote Atlanta, you have to throw it into two
and one and you basically have to go full throttle
and any normal reality the car would actually like you're
you're driving at a wall, except that there's a hill
(07:53):
and a compression and that cauts even more stick and
then it grips and a car takes it, and you
just have to believe that that's happening.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
Physics, physics, financial literacy, really of course math, spirituality. It's
it's look, you may not believe in God, but you
praying the God when you find God the cockpit. So faith, physics, math, technology,
(08:22):
attention attention focus strategy. That's a strategy in it multitasking,
it's also predictive of it.
Speaker 3 (08:31):
You need to understand what everyone knows around your doors,
like so you need to like you need to learn
about other people. It actually helps them lot getting to
know of other drivers because you know who's in the
cars around you, and you know what they're like.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
Are they more aggressive?
Speaker 3 (08:45):
They you know, like doing player long games and.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
Yeah, it's actually community.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
It's a community. Yeah. And and the only race in
racing is racing. You put them on. Nobody knows what ethnicity,
what what gender you are? Are you a good driver?
Are you not? Are you are? Do people look at
you and say, let's stay away from that guy or not?
Your reputation and you're interconnected, You're you're you're you're dependent
(09:15):
in some ways. You depend in some ways on your
team mechanics, those four patches of rubber, those tires are
I mean, you think about this like you gotta be
you gotta be one with the car. Like you're feeling
in your butt, you're filling the road, You're filling the pedals,
You're feeling the gearing. You're hearing the gearing the engines.
(09:35):
When when the ship win, the break the g forces all.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
That uh which is the.
Speaker 1 (09:42):
Lateral uh pressure. You hear about those in player planes.
You don't hear about the race cars, but they're very
same philosophies. The said you can turn the car upside
down and you know, stickle on the sea level. It
is very spiritual. I get out of a race car
and I just feel so and you were you were
an entire vacation.
Speaker 4 (10:00):
Yeah, it's an entire vacation has all elements in it.
I mean it's clear enough for everyone.
Speaker 3 (10:15):
But like I I, I just love it's like it's
it's one of the greatest hobbies. Also just because I mean,
this is the most wonderful thing about it doing spacing.
There's a like system there, like I'm a bronze driver,
which means I'm.
Speaker 2 (10:29):
Sort of a pro am.
Speaker 1 (10:31):
It means he's very very good. He's no punk, he's
a very good driver pro essentially a pro as much
of as much of a pro as an amateur can be.
Who's running a copy?
Speaker 3 (10:42):
What what trying? Right, I'm trying to trying to do that. Yes,
in my good labs and.
Speaker 1 (10:49):
We're going to show your laps.
Speaker 3 (10:50):
So don't worry other people. I'm sharing the cover, you know.
David Hannam my hands and silver driver. He's been a
silver he's been He's done the twenty four urs for
more twelve fourteen times.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
Silver.
Speaker 3 (11:05):
The driver is like extremely accomplished. Like again, when you
when you win too much, great way upgrade youo. So
so you have your bronze in the ground is silver
and then the gold.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
Is a professional money. Platinum is the highest.
Speaker 3 (11:17):
Platinum is like the Formula one guys, And so we
can have a gold or platinum in our car.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
And so it's it's a spot. We are team members.
Like it's not like.
Speaker 3 (11:28):
If you hear about Formula one, they have two cars
and the two teammates actually are the biggest competitors. They're
only the same. In doance racing, we are switching. We
are doing driver switches.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
Text us nineteen seconds to switch a driver.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
There's another teammates on the on the road right now.
Speaker 3 (11:45):
The race is still another what is it? Yeah, hey, yeah,
it's gonna get dark. So this story Atlanta is so
it's it's it gets really dark. Ye I've done dark
testing because happy driver has to do at least four
laps in the dark here to be allowed to go.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
And it's like that's a cool experience. But I'm like,
I'm like, just like, luckily this track has been.
Speaker 3 (12:07):
Here since the early eighties or like seventies. No one's
gonna remove the track behind this corner. But I have
no possibility of seeing it. I just have to believe.
I have to believe it's still there, and no one's
fun that's also right in front of right and lost
lost the power and over lights. So so anyway, like
(12:28):
this is kind of stuff that happens in racing, and
you do it with good class pros all about jows
like on every race many times, and like so it's
it's wonderful to do us a hobby sport.
Speaker 2 (12:40):
With pros together and.
Speaker 3 (12:43):
Just because he'll learned so quickly and everyone's there to
you know, help the bronze is to get faster because
having a fast bronze helps you a lots and biscuits and.
Speaker 1 (12:51):
So you're wonderfu a bronze and a silver and a
silver is the team. And how does this make make
you better in your family? How does it make you
better in your business? For people who think that we
are like, why would you do that? You know, I
know why I do it, but why does it make
(13:13):
you better? I think?
Speaker 3 (13:15):
I mean, I've learned a lot from from from from racing.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
I like, I mean, obviously I would do it without
any of these kind of things.
Speaker 3 (13:23):
But there's like I just find whenever you get in
contact and study anything that humans do at at a
crazy level, you just find either a new versions of
the same lessons that you've already learned in other ways
that sort of flash out of the picture will come
across like completely new new ideas. I'm honestly, I personally,
(13:47):
I'm incredibly you run a tech company, so I thought
we were really really you know, data driven and excellent
at this kind of thing. And then I joined the
professional racing team and the way they study the car,
the telemetry that they have, there's I mean there's like
six engineers looking at swiggly lines on screens to just
(14:10):
figure out how the car is doing and give feedback
and monitor everything. And like this sort of immediacy of
like feedback is I went to one of my teams saying, hey,
come to the next race, have a look at how
this you need this for shop?
Speaker 2 (14:25):
This is exactly how he should run the.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
Company, right, immediate feedback, immediately, like.
Speaker 3 (14:30):
Just make it visceral, like like like latency makes everything
so hard to relate to, right, Just like this is
a small example, but also just like how things are organized,
how clear the jobs are by everyone. There's like one
engineer who owns the front of a car and one
engineer who owns back of a car, and then there's
one major race engineer.
Speaker 2 (14:49):
Who makes it.
Speaker 3 (14:50):
It's it's everyone has their has their role, and texting
bright their role. And I think all of this is inspiring,
so so and all of this is RELI.
Speaker 1 (15:01):
And it probably makes you nicer when you get home.
We will we won't ask me all to that later.
I know. She changed her like, yeah, go to the
track for me.
Speaker 2 (15:11):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (15:15):
I always thought I was real. I always thought, but
because I was so different from everybody else around me,
my version of real, I'm like, Okay, well maybe I'm
just wrong in my version of real. I didn't like BS.
I like stripping away the BS into what's real. When
I got into a race car, I thought I understood
the philosophy of life. But when I got into a
race car, it challenged me in ways. That was like
(15:37):
when I was when I was struggling as a kid.
Like it was you can't play around in a race car.
You can't mess around. It doesn't care who you are,
your reputation, you're net worth, your none of that matters.
So you get out of it, You're like, maybe I
am who I think I am because I just did that,
and you can't fake that. It calms it strips away
(16:00):
all the stuff is not it's very authentic.
Speaker 3 (16:03):
It is authatic. It's and nothing. Everything is real and nothing.
Nothing is a lie, you know, Just like there is
a theoretical best lab time out there, it's completely impossible
for human to reach it, and it's your actual lab time.
(16:26):
The difference between bad lab time and your lab time
is the sum total of all your little inadequacies. And
and but then the next lap starts one minute fourteen
after the previous one.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
Starts, and then you have another shot.
Speaker 3 (16:43):
At it, and it's like you will find micro improvements.
You you just learn, learn to get better. It's like
I honestly, like, I mean, I'm like a lot of drivers.
Speaker 2 (16:58):
Really really really just like I want.
Speaker 3 (17:00):
To win, which I totally respect, I feel like compete
against I.
Speaker 2 (17:07):
I to me, drivers are actually kind of.
Speaker 3 (17:10):
Obstacles, that's right, that's right, and they make it more interesting.
But like I just want to do a really good
job because I I'm part of a team and like I,
you know, everyone there is relying on what I'm doing
in the car, and I have to deliver bring the
car functioning car ideally at a good place in the
race to my court drivers. And then they do their thing,
(17:31):
and then I will hop into the car again and
do it again and again be together.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
And this is.
Speaker 1 (17:38):
Brimmers went a business management team, board, directors, shareholders, customers,
very much like everybody, you know what we want to deliver,
we want to bring it back and something else again.
We never talked about this. For me, it's not about
going fast or about the competitor smooth.
Speaker 3 (17:53):
It's fast exactly, yeah, it's it's not like just throwing
in the run smooth as fast this. I don't know
if that makes sense, but you only have like I mean, you.
Speaker 2 (18:05):
You have a frontle, you have a break usually use
your two legs for voice, and then you have a
steering bell.
Speaker 1 (18:11):
Yeah are you saying yeah?
Speaker 3 (18:13):
So like that also that's just as fast like the
the steering wheel that goes like this and this. That's
it like it's it's I mean, it couldn't be uh simpler,
but that makes it not easy, right, and it just tells.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
You how far you like, Like, there's no like.
Speaker 3 (18:36):
Simplicity and h and difficulty are completely uncorrelated. In fact,
usually simplicity allows people to get like to to to
to reach further because it's this is not a lot
of pedal inputs like like the trade like afterwards if
then your view, there's a video, here's my what like
the break, how much brake pedal was pushed, Here's how
(18:57):
much front was pushed, and you know what the steering
angle was right, and we look for relapse and then
overlay someone else's maybe a poor.
Speaker 2 (19:06):
Driver's lap and it trust you. Okay, yeah you could
have actually.
Speaker 3 (19:11):
Break a little bit later, a little bit harder you trace,
but it be different and then you just learn and
you go out and try it again and you improve,
and I just think it's really really fun and also
like it's fun to be better stuff, and it's really
really fun to get better at stuff that's right. And
so yeah, you get to do this every every weekend.
(19:31):
Every time you get to Paul Newman.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
Who is a bit of an inspiration from Toby and I.
You know it as a famous actor, some of you do.
He was actually he was most proud of being a
race car driver, and he started racing at fifty basically
I did. And he won his last race in eighty
two or eighty three, and he was an hourly good
(19:54):
but he started out.
Speaker 2 (19:54):
Knowing not good in eighty three when he wor.
Speaker 1 (19:57):
Eighty three yes, which like streen cray, it's incredible, incredible,
and uh, he said. It was this great quote when
they asked why do you do auto racing, he said,
it's the only sport I was ever elegant at. I
wasn't great at basketball. I wasn't I was a tackling
dummy in a football whatever. But I feel elegant. And
(20:19):
it's for all stuff we've already said. But it is
quite fascinating and it's amazing, and it's underrated. It is
his own world. And she said, each one of these
financial finishing literacy that point, each one of these trailers,
you see, it's his own l C liability, corporate insurance.
It has profit profit laws, balance sheet income statements, sponsors,
(20:41):
it has assets.
Speaker 3 (20:43):
Cumans pots, supply chains, technology, absolutely everything. And every team
is trying to find the next thing. There's a lot
of innovation in there. Like the teams that do best,
other teams that have the type of race engineers that
never settle, and like people who are not motivated again
by just looking good in comparison to the others, or
(21:06):
like being in the field. It's the ones with drivings
further that end up doing it like the ones who
are intrinsically motivated, which is like try to build a
perfect car for the work because cars are ba is
complicatedly set up right like theres entire bood people getting
dive into on setups.
Speaker 2 (21:23):
But suffice to say that like innovation is a big
part of that.
Speaker 3 (21:26):
Creativity is a big part of figure outside of the
boxes is a big part of it.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
There's a world book that exists.
Speaker 3 (21:33):
And in most of industry the engineers are there to
look at the specifications and build something that conforms to
the specifications. And hospital job in racing is it's the
one there. It's a competition between the specification.
Speaker 2 (21:52):
And the engineer. It's the engineer, like it's the type.
Speaker 3 (21:56):
It's a rare type of engineer that likes to break rules,
will find find ways how to stretch for rules. And
there's you know Formula one as well, in like has a.
Speaker 2 (22:07):
Long document history where's Adrian Luis built many.
Speaker 3 (22:10):
Of the best casts in the worlds and like Senner's
McLaren and Brazil exactly and and and best up and
uh recently winning cars.
Speaker 2 (22:24):
And he wrote a book how to Build a Car,
which I recommend.
Speaker 3 (22:28):
It's it's just the story of someone who takes the
new formula and it's called formula one. It's like takes
for six out pages, was still college with the drawing
board and starts drawing parts.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
But he thinks do the best job. And so I
mean that is like eracing has all sorts of interesting
characters in it.
Speaker 3 (22:50):
It's a it's a niche for ah lots of types
of people who I don't know where else it would
be kind of people who like, they've broken the car
and then if I don't, they talked to friends about car,
and then they drive home in their car and then
probably meet some friends of what bes to talk about
cars and watch the race, and then go in the
(23:11):
shop and broke.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
On their product car.
Speaker 3 (23:13):
It's all that right, and it's it's also wonderful to
support that kind of who really deep desire that something
like this is possible.
Speaker 1 (23:22):
Yes, yes, you've got for Savin who sees his fashion
or his his artwork in the car. You've got Lewis
Hamilton who sees fashion, uh design, really designing the car
(23:46):
and designing the world. And they're both great drivers, just
different styles and and different approaches.
Speaker 2 (23:52):
It's increasingly real fashion usually like on the festival. He's
doing really well? Is it?
Speaker 1 (23:58):
Lowis Hamilton's has has a shop of.
Speaker 2 (24:00):
Us doers, has in readimal stuff.
Speaker 1 (24:03):
He does have incredible size and he did a great
job of this f one movie.
Speaker 2 (24:06):
It's fantastic, isn't that great?
Speaker 1 (24:08):
I watched it throughout three times. My father in law's
watched it four times. He's here, He's here, Doctor Dalton's here.
Blown as this whole thing is blown as my.
Speaker 3 (24:16):
I mean I did the race that starts the movie right,
like it's like the twenty four hours, that's right, Rolics
twenty four.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
I've done this.
Speaker 3 (24:23):
I've done literally the walk he does from its trailer
and via currently in trailer at the race track. So
this is my version of the first scene I the
longer movie.
Speaker 2 (24:33):
It's yes, and so I've done this walk at.
Speaker 3 (24:35):
Two am to the race and they captured it really
really well. So I mean this I also love, like,
like what a wonderful celebration of endurance racing before it
Ben gets into Formula one, which you know we started.
Speaker 1 (24:49):
So anybody who's not clear endurance racing, so sprint racing
is what it sounds like, a sprint endurance racing is
two hours, six hours, twelve hours, twenty.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
Four hours, twenty four hours of Lama is the biggest race.
Speaker 3 (25:04):
I'm doing Space in the wood Rolex twenty four so
it's one of the biggest, probably second biggest. And Kirv
I like the peteam Lamar which is in Atlanta, right Atlanta,
which is a ten hour race.
Speaker 1 (25:18):
Right for anybody who likes to lose weight, here's this
is the sport for you. You lose five to ten
pounds in.
Speaker 2 (25:27):
The day in a long stanp if it's hot.
Speaker 1 (25:30):
So you just did three forty five minutes stance. My
guess is you lost forty five pounds easily.
Speaker 2 (25:34):
Easily. Yeah, I'll have to get that back.
Speaker 1 (25:37):
So yeah, we're gonna go eat now and get some
of that back. When he got out, he had a wet,
a cold cold pack around his neck like an ice pack. Yes,
because you're at over one hundred degrees.
Speaker 2 (25:49):
In the it gets really it's costing.
Speaker 1 (25:52):
As we wrap up, tell you give the audience one
or two examples of leadership lessons you've learned learned in
the car that you can that you By the way,
my man has already brought Shopify to and NASCAR, he's
got shopping. He's bringing his business to wherever he goes,
and Shopify is already starting to dominate the space. I
(26:15):
didn't even know Louise Emine shop Why Why am I surprised?
But what is what is a leadership lesson that you've
learned from from being a race meg?
Speaker 2 (26:26):
What I.
Speaker 3 (26:29):
From my core drivers were much more experience than me.
The quality and the directors offer feedback back if any
get out of a car like but just like the
small like like we we have a ritual of like
after every session, go through it and the race engineer
comes and just listens and he's basically he runs he
(26:49):
runs the car right and just listen to a driver
and he go through every turn and any any any feedback.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
And then like he doesn't do the things ask him to.
Speaker 3 (27:00):
He ignores every suggestion, which like like like that is
also a good leadership.
Speaker 2 (27:06):
But he understands.
Speaker 3 (27:07):
Every He will understand quacklum under the problem. If we
talk about symptoms like understeering, he understands the car at.
Speaker 2 (27:15):
A completely different level.
Speaker 3 (27:17):
And then he goes back and tells the team to
do nothing of the sorts of what we said, and
somehow magically the car is now more pointy or like.
Speaker 1 (27:25):
Unsure means that you turn the car, but it does
not turn with you as much as you'd like. It
overshares the other the opposite problem.
Speaker 3 (27:32):
Those are all terms like what do they mean? Doesn't matter.
It's just like a race car drivers give feedback to
each other. And but like it's it's this thing of
like this, observe like this.
Speaker 2 (27:46):
It's an like if you if you come across like
observed object.
Speaker 3 (27:51):
So I can't actually go through the list. It just
means that it's basically one of us looping. You figure
out what's true, and then what are we doing our
out it, and then you do it, and then you
go back to us and just it's that and so
constantly improve, constantly improving, always chasing, never settling. That is
I really think that's I think you see this in
(28:14):
all the best teams.
Speaker 2 (28:16):
But it's it's a bit muted. It's it's it's in
the background. It's unacknowledged in a way.
Speaker 3 (28:22):
Sometimes people talk about it, but then they can go
for a long term not talking about it. In a
race cup, it's the entire thing. And then I think
this inversion is I think business.
Speaker 1 (28:34):
Would use this a little bit more so to summarize
what you're saying or wrap it up. We were talking
about earlier about how how things to be better at
the side, and you're saying, in his business, he'll take
a low performing group and basically say, Okay, this group
doesn't exist anymore. We created a new group. Now you
can apply to the new group. I encourage to apply
to the group or not. But I'm preting a new
(28:56):
group because I don't like this one was performing constantly improving,
and people always want to try to step up to
that new that that new group and perform and look
like they've been rebored exactly.
Speaker 3 (29:06):
It's a it's a refounding event. It's like it's it's
fun to be part of something new.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
It's it's it's.
Speaker 3 (29:13):
Stressful too to to try to bend something that's going
in a different direction. It takes a long time. It's
sordid work. Everyone knows. Okay, now we're gonna like to
change maagement for whatever. Like it's annoying. I found you
can compress all like I mean, you are compressing like
(29:34):
it's it's it's a it's a harder conversation to say, hey,
something ends. If you're doing something new, fifteen minutes of
deep uncertainty can replace months of abonue. And I think
that just is like it's it's it's way better for everyone,
and it's it's just more fun because now now you
get to say afterwards, it's booking everything is everyone's now
(29:56):
you knows it's a new department, this new thing, and
then you can say, for instance, your career is like
you have an art of you know, lay working with me,
working at that shopify refounding like a department that ended
up becoming an important part of company, and like that's
I mean that sounds better on your CV and like
(30:17):
just language twice, but it's also true.
Speaker 2 (30:19):
And I think that's like giving like creating as many
opportunities for people like that has.
Speaker 3 (30:24):
Been one of the things that has really been not
very obviously the journey and can be.
Speaker 1 (30:33):
Done absolutely inspiring. I hopefully you guys have gotten some
some fun that saw a fun part of Toby that
you would not have seen otherwise, but also learn a
little bit about life and leadership and courage. Courage what
you do basically what you do when you have all
the facts, but with really courages oftentimes what you do
(30:56):
be in spite of your insecurities and your fears. When
I first got into a race car, I was petrified,
but I wanted to overcome. Very few things scare me,
so I sort of was attracted to the fact that
here's this excellence, this excellence machine that I don't yet
master other people have. I think I can learn to
do it. I got to get out of my own way.
(31:17):
I got to get out of my own fear. I
got to believe and have competence with the tires can
system in myself, and then when all that comes together.
Speaker 3 (31:29):
Do something like I think my advice to everyone is like,
try to do hot things surrounded by friends. Like that
can be a company, it can be like a hobby.
And find the thing that like scares.
Speaker 2 (31:44):
You a little bit and it seems.
Speaker 3 (31:46):
Really hot and you know, you know good at because
writing up that, like learning crow is like it's been
entire point, it's the best thing in the world. It's
it's only annoying or it's only scary for a while
after you start climbing it.
Speaker 2 (32:00):
After you start yes nothing, yes you.
Speaker 1 (32:05):
You guys just got a masterclass. Don't have some food
is the more racing love and Life. Money and Wealth
(32:26):
with John O'Brien is a production of the Black Effect
podcast Network. For more podcasts from the Black Effect Podcast Network,
visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen
to your favorite shows. The Deep Deep
Host
John Hope Bryant
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