Uplift: Amber dedicates her career ensuring families leave behind not just wealth but also a legacy.
April 8, 2025 • 28 mins
Two-time Emmy and Three-time NAACP Image Award-winning, television Executive Producer Rushion McDonald interviewed Amber C. Saunders.
She is not just an attorney—she is a visionary on a mission to transform how families secure their futures. As the Principal Attorney of The Saunders Firm, Amber uses her expertise to offer a holistic approach to estate planning, where tax, succession, business, and intellectual property planning come together seamlessly. Her personal journey, shaped by the loss of a loved one, propelled her to dedicate her career to ensuring that families leave behind not just wealth but also a meaningful legacy.
Company Description *
The Saunders Firm is a boutique law practice based in Atlanta, Georgia, dedicated to helping individuals, families, and business owners protect what matters most. Founded by attorney Amber Saunders, the firm specializes in estate planning, estate administration, and business law with a personal touch. Drawing from real-life experience and a legacy of generational planning, The Saunders Firm empowers clients to take control of their future—offering thoughtful legal guidance, clarity through tough conversations, and compassionate support every step of the way. Whether you're safeguarding your assets or building a legacy for your loved ones, The Saunders Firm is here to help you plan with purpose.
Talking Points/Questions *
Absolutely! Here’s a brief list of thoughtful, engaging talking points and questions Rushion McDonald could use when interviewing Attorney Amber Saunders on his podcast. These are designed to spark conversation around legacy, law, and financial empowerment:
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### **Talking Points / Questions for Attorney Amber Saunders**
1. **Your Journey:**
*Amber, what inspired you to focus your legal career on estate planning and legacy work?
2. **Legacy Planning 101:**
*Many people think estate planning is just for the wealthy. Why is it essential for everyday families too?*
3. **Common Misconceptions:**
*What are some of the biggest myths or mistakes people make when it comes to estate planning?*
4. **Business Owners & Planning:**
*For entrepreneurs and small business owners listening, what legal steps should they be thinking about now to protect their businesses long-term?*
5. **Building Generational Wealth:**
*What role does estate planning play in creating generational wealth, especially in the Black community?*
6. **Family Conversations:**
*How do you recommend families begin the often uncomfortable conversations around wills, power of attorney, or what happens “if something happens”?*
7. **Legacy Mindset:**
*You talk about legacy as more than money. What does that look like, and how can people start shaping their legacy today?*
8. **Where to Start:**
For someone listening right now who’s ready to take action, what’s the first step they should take?
#BEST
#STRAW
#SHMS
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome, Welcome to my show. This is Rashaan McDonald. I
host the weekly Money Making Conversation Masterclass show. The interviews
and information that this show provides is for everyone. It's
time to stop reading other people's success stories and start
living your own. That's my model. I say it every
week because you got to say everything. It's like you
have to keep reminding people the purpose. My purpose is
(00:24):
to enable you to be successful. I do that with
information through my interviews. I am a storyteller. I bring
on subject matter experts to do the job for me
by sharing their experiences, giving advice, whether it's financial literacy,
small business owners, motivational leaders, influencers in the community. Now,
(00:45):
if you want to be a guest on my show,
please visit our website, Moneymakingconversations dot com and click to
be a guest button. If you have a product, you're
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about the event that you're doing, Just go to Moneymaking
Conversations dot com and click the bo guest button. Screen
will pop up. Submit your information. It'll come directly to me. Now,
(01:08):
let's get this show started. My guest is not just
an attorney, she's a visionary on a mission to transform
how families secure their financial futures. Give me on that futures.
Her personal journey, shape by our loss of a loved
one propelled her to dedicate her career to ensuring that
families leave behind not just wealth, but also a meaningful legacy.
(01:32):
Please welcome the Money Making Conversations Masterclass. Attorney Amber C. Sonders.
How you doing, Attorney Saunders.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
I'm doing well. Thank you. How are you?
Speaker 1 (01:42):
First of all, thank you for coming on the show.
In your introduction, I said shape by the loss of
a loved one? What did you mean by that?
Speaker 2 (01:50):
Well, So I became an estate planner because of my
great grandmother, my grandmother, my mother. My grandmother came to
the US in the nineteen hundreds. My grandmother was born
here in nineteen twenty. They bought my grandmother was a
great grandmother, was a maid in Boston, Massachusetts, and bought
a couple homes. The last home that she purchased she
(02:12):
gave to my grandmother and my grandmother needed it over
to my mother and uncle. And when my grandmother got dementia,
she was the only one who did any planning. She
had a healthcare directive power attorney, she invested her stop.
She did all these things on her own, had long
term care insurance. So when she got sick, because she
had planned all of these things, it was really easy
(02:33):
for my mother my uncle to take care of her.
And within i'd say a three year period, everyone on
that side of the family passed away. We were going
to a funeral like every five months, and the last
person who passed was my uncle and my mother had
to go to court for three years some change. And
he didn't think he really owned a lot. The only
(02:53):
asset that they had was the house that he owned
with my mother. But my mother had to fight with
creditors and the irs and all of these things because
he didn't think it was important or he procrastinated on
his planning. But I saw the difference between not doing
anything and how easy it was when my grandmother transitioned,
and so eventually my mother was able to sell the home,
(03:14):
and the money from that house was able to help
her not work while she was battling cancer. And so
I'm sure that my great grandmother didn't think that the
house that she left to her daughter, that her daughter
left to her granddaughter would be able to help my
mother in twenty twenty four, and so you know, a
state planning doesn't have to be for wealthy people, it's
for all of us. And it was just the house
(03:35):
that was able to transform my mother's retirement and help
her while she was sick. And so because of that,
I think it's just extremely important for individuals to consider
what they have worked hard for valuable and to leave
it the right way to the people they care about.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
Now, what is name of your firm, the Saunders Firm,
And give us a little education about your background and
why did you do you become an attorney. I know
you're inspired by a moment and that it happened. I
shouldn't s a moment of situation. You know that you
were able to see out and it's really amazing when
you're young, how those impressions can leave a big impression
(04:13):
on you, even though you you know I will tell
you just saw it and just stayed a part of you.
But what your educational background?
Speaker 2 (04:22):
So my mother said, I told her I was going
to be a lawyer when I was in kindergarten. And
I don't know why. I think my favorite her favorite
show was Perry Mason, and maybe that's what did it.
But I was singularly focused my entire life. I always
knew I was going to be a lawyer, not a ballerina,
not any of those other things. And so in school
I took debate, did all of those classes. I went
(04:43):
to undergrad at Oakwood College and Huntsville, Alabama, John Marshall
Law School for my jd. And my Masters of Law
at Emirates. But I always knew I was going to
do this, and it is one of the most fulfilling
things in my life. I enjoy helping people figure out
what they need to be doing.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
You know, it's state planning. That sounds like a wealthy term.
A state. You know, please explain to everybody when you
say the word a state, exactly what does that mean?
What does that mean?
Speaker 2 (05:16):
Okay, So technically anything in your state is anything that
you own, So your shoes are a part of your estate.
The official estate does not get formed unless you open
up open up a case with the like when your
family has to go take your will to the court
and try and get it administered, then they open up
(05:38):
the estate of Amber Saunders, for example. But if they
don't open that up, then there's no official estate that
the court or the state has any jurisdiction over. But
it is everything that you own that is due to you,
even moneies that are owed to you, things like that.
Your debts can be a part of your state. And
when a probate a state is opened up, that's when
(05:59):
that transition happens. Those debts are paid off, those assets
are transferred to family, and then it's closed out and
everything that's associated with you and what you own is
closed at that point after it's done.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
You know, when you hear the word is state, you
hear the word will. You know, we all think we're
going to live forever. We know we live forever. When
should one realistically start thinking about the process of first
of will and then their state. Are they hand in hand,
a one before the other.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
Well, it all really goes together. I think that a
state planning includes a lot of things. So for example,
if you have a child who graduates from high school,
right and they turn eighteen when they go to school.
When I went to school, they would tell my mother
about my financial aid and things like that as far
as I remember. Now, you can't get information because your
child is an adult quote unquote, because they're eighteen. So
(06:54):
needing a healthcare directive and power of attorney, which is
a part of estate planning, is essential for them because
you're still probably making some decisions for that now technically
adult child. If when you start acquiring things, if you
have a home, when people get married, when there are
life transitions, just so that people know what you want
(07:17):
to be done with things. Now, you might not need
a will, or you might not need a trust if
you have things that have beneficiary. For example, your life
insurance policy doesn't have to go through probate court. You
can just say this goes to mamma or to whomever,
and then that's it. For bank accounts, same thing. But
if you want to do a little more and kind
of say what people can do with it if you
(07:40):
want to if you have children and now grandchildren, and
you want to leave a little something and make sure
that it's used a particular way, then you need to
do a little more in depth planning to make sure
that the plan is executed the way that you want,
because a will just gives things away, whereas a trust
can kind of allow you to put some guardrails around
how people use it and say, hey, you got to
(08:00):
go to school if you want to get access to
these funds things like that. So it just depends on
what your long term goals are. But I would say
everyone needs the essential things that healthcare, directive and power
of attorney because while we're living, those things can assist
us if we're unable to pay our own bills or
if we're in the hospital or things like that, so
that people know how to help us when we need it.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
Okay, I'm talking to Attorney Amber Saunders. Let me ask
you this question about you said something about bank accounts
life insurance policies. You saying, Rashan, you can just assign
the beneficiary to that policy or to that bank account,
and everything's cool if you pass away correct.
Speaker 2 (08:41):
Correct, as long as there's a beneficiary name that does
not have to go to court. I mean, you've got
to notify the person because sometimes people don't do that,
but let them know that they may be beneficiary, or
if you put their address and things like that on
the policy, the insurance company might send them a letter
to notify them that they're the beneficiary. But then that
won't have to go to court. All they have to
do is provide whatever the insurance company asks for to
(09:04):
verify their identity and then they'll get a check for
whatever the balance is or whatever you left to them
on that policy.
Speaker 1 (09:10):
Okay, Got that sounds very simple. Got that? And this
when you get into the physical things like cars, jewelry, houses,
land is where you really need to have a will
and an estate, plannings, plans set up. Am I correct?
Speaker 2 (09:29):
Correct, because it's you can tell people this is the
thing that I think we are hopeful that people will
act right. But often when people get a divorce and
when someone passes away, you see characteristics come out in
people that you don't expect. And so when you don't
have it in stone, and when you don't have it
(09:50):
written down that this is who gets what, it can
really make people argue and tear families apart. I've seen
siblings not speak to one another because of something that
the mother did not have a will or anything like that,
and so when they went to court there were just
huge fights. And I'm sure she wouldn't have wanted the
family to be torn apart, but nothing was written down.
It's kind of hard to argue when something's on paper.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
Well, you know, my mom, she kind of had a will,
which is the worst thing. Kind of had a will,
you know, kind of had the information in there, so
that left us kind of debating what she really wanted
to do. And that's what we're talking about here. That's
why this is a popular subject on my show, Wills
and the State Planning because of the fact that, you know,
(10:33):
people of color, we never think about legacy. We never
think about tomorrow. We just think about today. We think
about the first in the fifteenth When when you hear
me talk like that, what frustrates you most? And why
are you on this show today to discuss what you're discussing, attorneys.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
Artists, Because even if we're thinking about today and we
I mean generational wealth of the conversation that people, you know,
they love that word. By definition, it means that you
have to leave something for the next generation in order
for you to have generational wealth. It's not just building
up amassing a lot of money if you are not
(11:11):
thoughtful in how you transition it, thoughtful and how you
educate the next generation to make sure they know what
to do with it and how it is transitioned. So
we can't just think of the first and the fifteenth
because we're going to leave people with a mountain of
debt or something that they don't necessarily know what to
do with. And it is, in my opinion, one of
(11:35):
the While it's a protracted struggle changing the wealth or
minimizing the wealth gap, it is a significant way that
black people can change the trajectory of our people. If
everyone leaves a little bit to the next generation, and
then that next generation builds upon it and leaves more,
then we can make strides. But if we don't do it,
and each time we're losing assets and education, knowledge and
(12:00):
all of these things because we didn't think about how
we were going to pass it, then we're doing a
disservice to all of us. There's no point to making
all that money if we can't sit there and lay
a blueprint for the next generation on how to use
it and grow from there.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
That leads to misconceptions. Common misconceptions that people have are
the big myths about mistakes when it comes to state planning,
because of the fact that, like I said, you know
you can there's a simple way, and there's a difficult
way to live your life. Difficult way is you and
you don't plan it out, you don't leave a paper
trail that people can follow and accurately, you know, divide
(12:36):
your assets once you left this earth. But a lot
of people want to be cheap now attorney something. They
want the cheap route. I can go online, I can
go on line. I can print a document, tell us
about some of that those scams or those uh those uh,
I guess I call them an internet lawyers, right.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
I mean I just had to talkigh some money about
that today. They're you're gonna pay or somebody is going
to pay either way, right, either gonna pay upfront or
somebody's going to pay on the back end. And maybe
and if you don't care, then you can just say
up front, hey, I don't care what happens to them.
I've heard someone say, you know, I'm going to be
gone anyway. And if that's what you you know, if
that's the mindset you have, then I'm not the lawyer
(13:17):
for you. You know, people can't and this is not
the show for them because you don't really care. But
I don't think most people feel like that. I think
sometimes people are scared to just face their mortality. But
then you listen to people online who are trying to
sell products, which fine, you know, there are strategy people
want to put do this infinite banking and things like that,
(13:40):
and without realizing, yes, you can build up cash value
and insurance policy, but you're paying into it. You have
to pay the premium, or you have to overfund it
and put money in there. But they think, because they're
only listening to a snippet, that I buy this policy
and then I can go borrow money. The insurance company
will go out of business. Like that's not how any.
Speaker 1 (13:59):
Of it works.
Speaker 2 (14:00):
And so without actually digging a little deeper, you know,
people want to build these big trusts that they don't
have the assets for or things like that without getting
a real or just let me go to this website
and get a template. Well, the template or the AI
or whatever this is doesn't know your family. Dynamics doesn't
know the situation, and it is it does a disservice
(14:25):
to our families without really thinking about it to try
and be cheap, because if we valued it, we'd spend
the time to do it. And sometimes we value that
bag or that vacation or that car, but we don't
value what happens to our family after we're gone. And
so that's a you know, maybe an existential question. You know,
(14:45):
it might be too much, but it's essentially what's more
important to you.
Speaker 3 (14:48):
Please don't go anywhere. We'll be right back with more
money Making Conversations Masterclass. Welcome back to the Money Making
Conversations Masterclass hosted by Rashaan McDonald. Money Making Conversations Masterclass
continues online at Moneymakingconversations dot com and follow money Making
(15:11):
Conversations Masterclass on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram.
Speaker 1 (15:15):
But one thing that really bothers me a lot is
three words that you said before the work, building generational wealth.
I hear that so much in the financial literacy and
the motivational game. It just annoys me. Building generation It's
almost like it's a scam. Words that people use to someone,
like a trick move people that branding, marketing, and building
(15:37):
generational wealth. Those are three words that are so popular
on the web of Internet, social media, motivational speakers. That's
all they use. Now when you talk about from an
entrepreneur's perspective, you know, from a person, what role does
estate planning play and creating generational wealth? Especially attorney Saunders
(16:00):
in the black community, I.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
Mean, it's the key. It's the only way that you
can really do it. It guides the transition from one
generation to the next of the assets. But if you
do it right, you can also put tools and guidance
in there to ensure that it's not wasted. Their statistically
(16:23):
out there that show between one generation to the next,
I think the second generation the money. By the third generation,
the money is gone generally, and so there are reasons
for that because the knowledge that we have that the
first generation who made that money has it hadn't been
passed on in a structured, systematic way. And you can
(16:45):
use a state planning to do that to ensure that
the money lasts for generations and the knowledge lasts for generations,
so that your grandchildren can benefit and your great grandchildren.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
Now, so let me move over to entrepreneurs and small
because entrepreneurs and small business owner that's the rage, you know,
especially African American women or Black women. They're the leading
small business owner developers. If you can look up any
stat nobody's starting more small business than black women. So
what legal steps should they be listening to. I'm talking
(17:16):
about people in general about how to protect their business
long term, not short term, because a lot of people
want to just look at like they said that first
in the fifteenth my door's opening thirty days one won't
be But you have to feel if you're starting something,
you want to hold on to it. What are some
ways they can protect their business long term?
Speaker 2 (17:35):
Well, I think they need to first think about whether
or not they really mean created a business or created
a job for themselves. So when I say that, you know,
if the business can if you can't go on vacation
without the house burning down or the contracts and everything
is dependent upon you as the owner or as the
leader in the business, then it can't operate no one.
(17:56):
You can't transition it to someone else it because it
is dependent upon you as an individual. Now that might
be what you want. If you don't and you want
it to grow and become a business that is self
sustaining without you, that can operate, you have to look
at systems. You have to look at secession. If I'm
not here, who takes it over? And so succession planning
(18:19):
is a process figuring out the transition of power if
you're not there. If in the long term you want
to retire or sell the business or transition it to children,
then you have to think about that. I mean ten
years ahead and start making the plans and start putting
the structures in place. Think about insurance. If your partners
(18:42):
with someone and one of you passes away, do you
really want to be in business with their spouse? You
might not, So then that means you need to buy
sell agreement and maybe some key man insurance that would
pay out the interest that you had in the business
to your or loved one so that they are no
longer a part of it. And so how what you
(19:05):
ultimately want to do. You might be planning for an exit,
but an exit can also be retirement, and an exit
can also be a sale or transitioning the company to employees.
But you have to begin or operate the business with
the end in mind so that you are always going
down that path to make sure that you can harvest
(19:25):
the most wealth that you can out of the business.
You can just be out there like it's the wild
wild West. Sometimes that works in the beginning, but it
doesn't work long term.
Speaker 1 (19:34):
I got it. I want to drop a question, but
you brought up something I need to transition to the
family conversation. We were talking for secession. We're talking about
especially when you're talking about running a business. I know
for a fact, three people, unfortunately in my life, have
been handed to the business and guess what, the business
is closed today. And because one they didn't respect the
(19:56):
business one part of it a way, one didn't spend
time there. I thought it was, you know, showed up
after the customers showed up. And the third one just
you know, when you when your parents or your loved
ones build something, that's the word legacy comes in. If
(20:19):
you don't want to do it, don't do it. So
that's where their family conversation that you're talking about coming
in and something and that's to start with the parents,
especially when they're looking at their kids. Are these the
kids that are going to move my business?
Speaker 2 (20:32):
Loan?
Speaker 1 (20:33):
Or you may need to develop somebody within the company
that can run your business and guess what keep sending
checks to the kids and give that person part of
the partnership. But I don't want to get too deep
in this conversation when I bringing an expert in, I'm
just a storyteller. Talk about that family conversation, Attorney Saunders.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
The conversation has to be had when you're deciding how
you want to what your exit strategy is. But also
the reality is you know your children, right, so you
know if they're really going to be able to do it.
And we like to be hopeful and we like to
have faith, and all of that is wonderful. But if
this person has not shown an interest or has not
(21:15):
been at that business as an intern, as a child,
when you were as a child, or in college showing
an interest, they might not be interested in taking it over.
So their behavior will tell and you have to look
at it like a business and not think about it
like this is my child and oh I want to
give them a chance to do it, because what you
worked hard for will be gone if you don't look
(21:38):
at it from an unsentimental eye. What is going to
make this business valuable and operable? Who are their employees
that you can transition it to. Just like you said,
there are ways that you can still make sure that
your family reached the benefits of what you're built without
letting them burn it down.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
Oh my goodness. And that's that hard conversation because sometimes
your kids ego because step in and then you can
like not value their skill set or overvalue their skill set.
And next thing, you know, but I always tell people too,
if you want your child to be a part of
the business after you're gone. Bring them into the business.
(22:17):
Watch them. Is their sincere effort? Are they showing up
to work on time? Are they trying to be leaders?
Are those traits are not going to change? If they
are bad, they're not going to change when you leave.
They're only going to get worse. So, if you have
a dream that you start as a restaurant, your child
don't want to work in a restaurant. They don't want
to cook chicken or cook whatever you're doing. Don't want
(22:39):
to be a matre d don't want to wash dishes.
If they don't want to do the small things, the
dirty things. I always tell that child right there is
not going to be a good owner of your company
once they leave. I'm just going to tell you right now, now,
early in that conversation, you've always mentioned the word legacy,
Attorney Sonders being more valuable than money. Explain that to us, Well.
Speaker 2 (23:07):
Money can be spent and it's gone, and even after
it's gone, who you are, how you made people feel,
what you built, what you did, the memories of those
things that are still there, and that is what I
considered legacy. What people remember about you, what you did,
how you made people feel, all of those things, and
(23:28):
those are things that we have control over. We have
control over, you know, we can make as much money
in the world, but you can. Your legacy can be
you were a jerk and you didn't treat people well,
and you didn't leave anything to anyone, and that is
what people remember. The thing that is lasting in people's
memory about you and what the impact that you had
(23:49):
on them. To me is what your legacy is all about.
And that includes what you lead to your family because
essentially your estate plan is the last love letter you
get to write them. That is what even though they're
going to remember all sorts of other things, if the
last thing you did was not plan and they have
to try and sort through all the mess that was
there because you didn't think enough of them to plan
(24:11):
for it, they're going to remember. That's going to be
a part of your legacy too. And so you want
to think about holistically, what's a part of your legacy
and it could be I mean, I wear my uncle's
wedding ring every day. I wear my grandmother's necklace every
single day. It helps me remember them. It is sentimental
(24:32):
to me, and it is just a piece of jewelry,
but it is a part of their memory and it
makes me feel like I carry them with me all
the time. When you're gone, people are going to miss you,
not just oh the five dollars you might have left them.
They're going to be thinking about you, and so what
impact are you having on them is a part of
the conversation as well too.
Speaker 1 (24:52):
Attorney AMBVERSI Saunders. How can we in touch with you?
Speaker 2 (24:57):
My website is the Saundersfirm dot com. I am often
on Instagram at at ask Amber Saunders and then our
offices in Atlanta, but we help people everywhere, but we're
We're located in Buckhead and our number six seven eight
six eight zero four three three suits.
Speaker 1 (25:15):
I appreciate you. I got one minute left. Can just
just a quick cliff note of someone listening, What action
should they take right now? We gave you a contact information,
what action should they take right now? When we talk
about taking their first step, I.
Speaker 2 (25:31):
Think they should sit down and make an asset inventory
of everything, every account, every piece of crypto, everything they
have because what's very difficult if something happens is for
people to figure out where all your things are and
they have to search through your things, so make it easy.
Just get on an Excel spreadsheet, put everything in there
and what the account numbers are and that is a
(25:52):
great start and then you can go talk to somebody
after that.
Speaker 1 (25:54):
Wow. Thank you for taking the time and the passion.
I love that passion. That's what the Money Making common
master Classes all again. I want to invite you back.
And you know for my style now, it's all about winning.
It's all about the uplift, it's all about giving people
information to win. Thank you, Attorney Amber C. Saunders. This
has been another edition of Money Making Conversation Masterclass posted
(26:17):
by me Rashaun McDonald. Thank you to our guests on
the show today and thank you our listening to the
audience now. If you want to listen to any episode
I want to be a guest on the show, visit
Moneymakingconversations dot com. Our social media handle is money Making Conversation.
Join us next week and remember to always leave with
your gifts. Keep winning.
Welcome, Welcome to my show. This is Rashaan McDonald. I
host the weekly Money Making Conversation Masterclass show. The interviews
and information that this show provides is for everyone. It's
time to stop reading other people's success stories and start
living your own. That's my model. I say it every
week because you got to say everything. It's like you
have to keep reminding people the purpose. My purpose is
(00:24):
to enable you to be successful. I do that with
information through my interviews. I am a storyteller. I bring
on subject matter experts to do the job for me
by sharing their experiences, giving advice, whether it's financial literacy,
small business owners, motivational leaders, influencers in the community. Now,
(00:45):
if you want to be a guest on my show,
please visit our website, Moneymakingconversations dot com and click to
be a guest button. If you have a product, you're
a small business owner, want to get the worried out
about the event that you're doing, Just go to Moneymaking
Conversations dot com and click the bo guest button. Screen
will pop up. Submit your information. It'll come directly to me. Now,
(01:08):
let's get this show started. My guest is not just
an attorney, she's a visionary on a mission to transform
how families secure their financial futures. Give me on that futures.
Her personal journey, shape by our loss of a loved
one propelled her to dedicate her career to ensuring that
families leave behind not just wealth, but also a meaningful legacy.
(01:32):
Please welcome the Money Making Conversations Masterclass. Attorney Amber C. Sonders.
How you doing, Attorney Saunders.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
I'm doing well. Thank you. How are you?
Speaker 1 (01:42):
First of all, thank you for coming on the show.
In your introduction, I said shape by the loss of
a loved one? What did you mean by that?
Speaker 2 (01:50):
Well, So I became an estate planner because of my
great grandmother, my grandmother, my mother. My grandmother came to
the US in the nineteen hundreds. My grandmother was born
here in nineteen twenty. They bought my grandmother was a
great grandmother, was a maid in Boston, Massachusetts, and bought
a couple homes. The last home that she purchased she
(02:12):
gave to my grandmother and my grandmother needed it over
to my mother and uncle. And when my grandmother got dementia,
she was the only one who did any planning. She
had a healthcare directive power attorney, she invested her stop.
She did all these things on her own, had long
term care insurance. So when she got sick, because she
had planned all of these things, it was really easy
(02:33):
for my mother my uncle to take care of her.
And within i'd say a three year period, everyone on
that side of the family passed away. We were going
to a funeral like every five months, and the last
person who passed was my uncle and my mother had
to go to court for three years some change. And
he didn't think he really owned a lot. The only
(02:53):
asset that they had was the house that he owned
with my mother. But my mother had to fight with
creditors and the irs and all of these things because
he didn't think it was important or he procrastinated on
his planning. But I saw the difference between not doing
anything and how easy it was when my grandmother transitioned,
and so eventually my mother was able to sell the home,
(03:14):
and the money from that house was able to help
her not work while she was battling cancer. And so
I'm sure that my great grandmother didn't think that the
house that she left to her daughter, that her daughter
left to her granddaughter would be able to help my
mother in twenty twenty four, and so you know, a
state planning doesn't have to be for wealthy people, it's
for all of us. And it was just the house
(03:35):
that was able to transform my mother's retirement and help
her while she was sick. And so because of that,
I think it's just extremely important for individuals to consider
what they have worked hard for valuable and to leave
it the right way to the people they care about.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
Now, what is name of your firm, the Saunders Firm,
And give us a little education about your background and
why did you do you become an attorney. I know
you're inspired by a moment and that it happened. I
shouldn't s a moment of situation. You know that you
were able to see out and it's really amazing when
you're young, how those impressions can leave a big impression
(04:13):
on you, even though you you know I will tell
you just saw it and just stayed a part of you.
But what your educational background?
Speaker 2 (04:22):
So my mother said, I told her I was going
to be a lawyer when I was in kindergarten. And
I don't know why. I think my favorite her favorite
show was Perry Mason, and maybe that's what did it.
But I was singularly focused my entire life. I always
knew I was going to be a lawyer, not a ballerina,
not any of those other things. And so in school
I took debate, did all of those classes. I went
(04:43):
to undergrad at Oakwood College and Huntsville, Alabama, John Marshall
Law School for my jd. And my Masters of Law
at Emirates. But I always knew I was going to
do this, and it is one of the most fulfilling
things in my life. I enjoy helping people figure out
what they need to be doing.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
You know, it's state planning. That sounds like a wealthy term.
A state. You know, please explain to everybody when you
say the word a state, exactly what does that mean?
What does that mean?
Speaker 2 (05:16):
Okay, So technically anything in your state is anything that
you own, So your shoes are a part of your estate.
The official estate does not get formed unless you open
up open up a case with the like when your
family has to go take your will to the court
and try and get it administered, then they open up
(05:38):
the estate of Amber Saunders, for example. But if they
don't open that up, then there's no official estate that
the court or the state has any jurisdiction over. But
it is everything that you own that is due to you,
even moneies that are owed to you, things like that.
Your debts can be a part of your state. And
when a probate a state is opened up, that's when
(05:59):
that transition happens. Those debts are paid off, those assets
are transferred to family, and then it's closed out and
everything that's associated with you and what you own is
closed at that point after it's done.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
You know, when you hear the word is state, you
hear the word will. You know, we all think we're
going to live forever. We know we live forever. When
should one realistically start thinking about the process of first
of will and then their state. Are they hand in hand,
a one before the other.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
Well, it all really goes together. I think that a
state planning includes a lot of things. So for example,
if you have a child who graduates from high school,
right and they turn eighteen when they go to school.
When I went to school, they would tell my mother
about my financial aid and things like that as far
as I remember. Now, you can't get information because your
child is an adult quote unquote, because they're eighteen. So
(06:54):
needing a healthcare directive and power of attorney, which is
a part of estate planning, is essential for them because
you're still probably making some decisions for that now technically
adult child. If when you start acquiring things, if you
have a home, when people get married, when there are
life transitions, just so that people know what you want
(07:17):
to be done with things. Now, you might not need
a will, or you might not need a trust if
you have things that have beneficiary. For example, your life
insurance policy doesn't have to go through probate court. You
can just say this goes to mamma or to whomever,
and then that's it. For bank accounts, same thing. But
if you want to do a little more and kind
of say what people can do with it if you
(07:40):
want to if you have children and now grandchildren, and
you want to leave a little something and make sure
that it's used a particular way, then you need to
do a little more in depth planning to make sure
that the plan is executed the way that you want,
because a will just gives things away, whereas a trust
can kind of allow you to put some guardrails around
how people use it and say, hey, you got to
(08:00):
go to school if you want to get access to
these funds things like that. So it just depends on
what your long term goals are. But I would say
everyone needs the essential things that healthcare, directive and power
of attorney because while we're living, those things can assist
us if we're unable to pay our own bills or
if we're in the hospital or things like that, so
that people know how to help us when we need it.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
Okay, I'm talking to Attorney Amber Saunders. Let me ask
you this question about you said something about bank accounts
life insurance policies. You saying, Rashan, you can just assign
the beneficiary to that policy or to that bank account,
and everything's cool if you pass away correct.
Speaker 2 (08:41):
Correct, as long as there's a beneficiary name that does
not have to go to court. I mean, you've got
to notify the person because sometimes people don't do that,
but let them know that they may be beneficiary, or
if you put their address and things like that on
the policy, the insurance company might send them a letter
to notify them that they're the beneficiary. But then that
won't have to go to court. All they have to
do is provide whatever the insurance company asks for to
(09:04):
verify their identity and then they'll get a check for
whatever the balance is or whatever you left to them
on that policy.
Speaker 1 (09:10):
Okay, Got that sounds very simple. Got that? And this
when you get into the physical things like cars, jewelry, houses,
land is where you really need to have a will
and an estate, plannings, plans set up. Am I correct?
Speaker 2 (09:29):
Correct, because it's you can tell people this is the
thing that I think we are hopeful that people will
act right. But often when people get a divorce and
when someone passes away, you see characteristics come out in
people that you don't expect. And so when you don't
have it in stone, and when you don't have it
(09:50):
written down that this is who gets what, it can
really make people argue and tear families apart. I've seen
siblings not speak to one another because of something that
the mother did not have a will or anything like that,
and so when they went to court there were just
huge fights. And I'm sure she wouldn't have wanted the
family to be torn apart, but nothing was written down.
It's kind of hard to argue when something's on paper.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
Well, you know, my mom, she kind of had a will,
which is the worst thing. Kind of had a will,
you know, kind of had the information in there, so
that left us kind of debating what she really wanted
to do. And that's what we're talking about here. That's
why this is a popular subject on my show, Wills
and the State Planning because of the fact that, you know,
(10:33):
people of color, we never think about legacy. We never
think about tomorrow. We just think about today. We think
about the first in the fifteenth When when you hear
me talk like that, what frustrates you most? And why
are you on this show today to discuss what you're discussing, attorneys.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
Artists, Because even if we're thinking about today and we
I mean generational wealth of the conversation that people, you know,
they love that word. By definition, it means that you
have to leave something for the next generation in order
for you to have generational wealth. It's not just building
up amassing a lot of money if you are not
(11:11):
thoughtful in how you transition it, thoughtful and how you
educate the next generation to make sure they know what
to do with it and how it is transitioned. So
we can't just think of the first and the fifteenth
because we're going to leave people with a mountain of
debt or something that they don't necessarily know what to
do with. And it is, in my opinion, one of
(11:35):
the While it's a protracted struggle changing the wealth or
minimizing the wealth gap, it is a significant way that
black people can change the trajectory of our people. If
everyone leaves a little bit to the next generation, and
then that next generation builds upon it and leaves more,
then we can make strides. But if we don't do it,
and each time we're losing assets and education, knowledge and
(12:00):
all of these things because we didn't think about how
we were going to pass it, then we're doing a
disservice to all of us. There's no point to making
all that money if we can't sit there and lay
a blueprint for the next generation on how to use
it and grow from there.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
That leads to misconceptions. Common misconceptions that people have are
the big myths about mistakes when it comes to state planning,
because of the fact that, like I said, you know
you can there's a simple way, and there's a difficult
way to live your life. Difficult way is you and
you don't plan it out, you don't leave a paper
trail that people can follow and accurately, you know, divide
(12:36):
your assets once you left this earth. But a lot
of people want to be cheap now attorney something. They
want the cheap route. I can go online, I can
go on line. I can print a document, tell us
about some of that those scams or those uh those uh,
I guess I call them an internet lawyers, right.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
I mean I just had to talkigh some money about
that today. They're you're gonna pay or somebody is going
to pay either way, right, either gonna pay upfront or
somebody's going to pay on the back end. And maybe
and if you don't care, then you can just say
up front, hey, I don't care what happens to them.
I've heard someone say, you know, I'm going to be
gone anyway. And if that's what you you know, if
that's the mindset you have, then I'm not the lawyer
(13:17):
for you. You know, people can't and this is not
the show for them because you don't really care. But
I don't think most people feel like that. I think
sometimes people are scared to just face their mortality. But
then you listen to people online who are trying to
sell products, which fine, you know, there are strategy people
want to put do this infinite banking and things like that,
(13:40):
and without realizing, yes, you can build up cash value
and insurance policy, but you're paying into it. You have
to pay the premium, or you have to overfund it
and put money in there. But they think, because they're
only listening to a snippet, that I buy this policy
and then I can go borrow money. The insurance company
will go out of business. Like that's not how any.
Speaker 1 (13:59):
Of it works.
Speaker 2 (14:00):
And so without actually digging a little deeper, you know,
people want to build these big trusts that they don't
have the assets for or things like that without getting
a real or just let me go to this website
and get a template. Well, the template or the AI
or whatever this is doesn't know your family. Dynamics doesn't
know the situation, and it is it does a disservice
(14:25):
to our families without really thinking about it to try
and be cheap, because if we valued it, we'd spend
the time to do it. And sometimes we value that
bag or that vacation or that car, but we don't
value what happens to our family after we're gone. And
so that's a you know, maybe an existential question. You know,
(14:45):
it might be too much, but it's essentially what's more
important to you.
Speaker 3 (14:48):
Please don't go anywhere. We'll be right back with more
money Making Conversations Masterclass. Welcome back to the Money Making
Conversations Masterclass hosted by Rashaan McDonald. Money Making Conversations Masterclass
continues online at Moneymakingconversations dot com and follow money Making
(15:11):
Conversations Masterclass on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram.
Speaker 1 (15:15):
But one thing that really bothers me a lot is
three words that you said before the work, building generational wealth.
I hear that so much in the financial literacy and
the motivational game. It just annoys me. Building generation It's
almost like it's a scam. Words that people use to someone,
like a trick move people that branding, marketing, and building
(15:37):
generational wealth. Those are three words that are so popular
on the web of Internet, social media, motivational speakers. That's
all they use. Now when you talk about from an
entrepreneur's perspective, you know, from a person, what role does
estate planning play and creating generational wealth? Especially attorney Saunders
(16:00):
in the black community, I.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
Mean, it's the key. It's the only way that you
can really do it. It guides the transition from one
generation to the next of the assets. But if you
do it right, you can also put tools and guidance
in there to ensure that it's not wasted. Their statistically
(16:23):
out there that show between one generation to the next,
I think the second generation the money. By the third generation,
the money is gone generally, and so there are reasons
for that because the knowledge that we have that the
first generation who made that money has it hadn't been
passed on in a structured, systematic way. And you can
(16:45):
use a state planning to do that to ensure that
the money lasts for generations and the knowledge lasts for generations,
so that your grandchildren can benefit and your great grandchildren.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
Now, so let me move over to entrepreneurs and small
because entrepreneurs and small business owner that's the rage, you know,
especially African American women or Black women. They're the leading
small business owner developers. If you can look up any
stat nobody's starting more small business than black women. So
what legal steps should they be listening to. I'm talking
(17:16):
about people in general about how to protect their business
long term, not short term, because a lot of people
want to just look at like they said that first
in the fifteenth my door's opening thirty days one won't
be But you have to feel if you're starting something,
you want to hold on to it. What are some
ways they can protect their business long term?
Speaker 2 (17:35):
Well, I think they need to first think about whether
or not they really mean created a business or created
a job for themselves. So when I say that, you know,
if the business can if you can't go on vacation
without the house burning down or the contracts and everything
is dependent upon you as the owner or as the
leader in the business, then it can't operate no one.
(17:56):
You can't transition it to someone else it because it
is dependent upon you as an individual. Now that might
be what you want. If you don't and you want
it to grow and become a business that is self
sustaining without you, that can operate, you have to look
at systems. You have to look at secession. If I'm
not here, who takes it over? And so succession planning
(18:19):
is a process figuring out the transition of power if
you're not there. If in the long term you want
to retire or sell the business or transition it to children,
then you have to think about that. I mean ten
years ahead and start making the plans and start putting
the structures in place. Think about insurance. If your partners
(18:42):
with someone and one of you passes away, do you
really want to be in business with their spouse? You
might not, So then that means you need to buy
sell agreement and maybe some key man insurance that would
pay out the interest that you had in the business
to your or loved one so that they are no
longer a part of it. And so how what you
(19:05):
ultimately want to do. You might be planning for an exit,
but an exit can also be retirement, and an exit
can also be a sale or transitioning the company to employees.
But you have to begin or operate the business with
the end in mind so that you are always going
down that path to make sure that you can harvest
(19:25):
the most wealth that you can out of the business.
You can just be out there like it's the wild
wild West. Sometimes that works in the beginning, but it
doesn't work long term.
Speaker 1 (19:34):
I got it. I want to drop a question, but
you brought up something I need to transition to the
family conversation. We were talking for secession. We're talking about
especially when you're talking about running a business. I know
for a fact, three people, unfortunately in my life, have
been handed to the business and guess what, the business
is closed today. And because one they didn't respect the
(19:56):
business one part of it a way, one didn't spend
time there. I thought it was, you know, showed up
after the customers showed up. And the third one just
you know, when you when your parents or your loved
ones build something, that's the word legacy comes in. If
(20:19):
you don't want to do it, don't do it. So
that's where their family conversation that you're talking about coming
in and something and that's to start with the parents,
especially when they're looking at their kids. Are these the
kids that are going to move my business?
Speaker 2 (20:32):
Loan?
Speaker 1 (20:33):
Or you may need to develop somebody within the company
that can run your business and guess what keep sending
checks to the kids and give that person part of
the partnership. But I don't want to get too deep
in this conversation when I bringing an expert in, I'm
just a storyteller. Talk about that family conversation, Attorney Saunders.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
The conversation has to be had when you're deciding how
you want to what your exit strategy is. But also
the reality is you know your children, right, so you
know if they're really going to be able to do it.
And we like to be hopeful and we like to
have faith, and all of that is wonderful. But if
this person has not shown an interest or has not
(21:15):
been at that business as an intern, as a child,
when you were as a child, or in college showing
an interest, they might not be interested in taking it over.
So their behavior will tell and you have to look
at it like a business and not think about it
like this is my child and oh I want to
give them a chance to do it, because what you
worked hard for will be gone if you don't look
(21:38):
at it from an unsentimental eye. What is going to
make this business valuable and operable? Who are their employees
that you can transition it to. Just like you said,
there are ways that you can still make sure that
your family reached the benefits of what you're built without
letting them burn it down.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
Oh my goodness. And that's that hard conversation because sometimes
your kids ego because step in and then you can
like not value their skill set or overvalue their skill set.
And next thing, you know, but I always tell people too,
if you want your child to be a part of
the business after you're gone. Bring them into the business.
(22:17):
Watch them. Is their sincere effort? Are they showing up
to work on time? Are they trying to be leaders?
Are those traits are not going to change? If they
are bad, they're not going to change when you leave.
They're only going to get worse. So, if you have
a dream that you start as a restaurant, your child
don't want to work in a restaurant. They don't want
to cook chicken or cook whatever you're doing. Don't want
(22:39):
to be a matre d don't want to wash dishes.
If they don't want to do the small things, the
dirty things. I always tell that child right there is
not going to be a good owner of your company
once they leave. I'm just going to tell you right now, now,
early in that conversation, you've always mentioned the word legacy,
Attorney Sonders being more valuable than money. Explain that to us, Well.
Speaker 2 (23:07):
Money can be spent and it's gone, and even after
it's gone, who you are, how you made people feel,
what you built, what you did, the memories of those
things that are still there, and that is what I
considered legacy. What people remember about you, what you did,
how you made people feel, all of those things, and
(23:28):
those are things that we have control over. We have
control over, you know, we can make as much money
in the world, but you can. Your legacy can be
you were a jerk and you didn't treat people well,
and you didn't leave anything to anyone, and that is
what people remember. The thing that is lasting in people's
memory about you and what the impact that you had
(23:49):
on them. To me is what your legacy is all about.
And that includes what you lead to your family because
essentially your estate plan is the last love letter you
get to write them. That is what even though they're
going to remember all sorts of other things, if the
last thing you did was not plan and they have
to try and sort through all the mess that was
there because you didn't think enough of them to plan
(24:11):
for it, they're going to remember. That's going to be
a part of your legacy too. And so you want
to think about holistically, what's a part of your legacy
and it could be I mean, I wear my uncle's
wedding ring every day. I wear my grandmother's necklace every
single day. It helps me remember them. It is sentimental
(24:32):
to me, and it is just a piece of jewelry,
but it is a part of their memory and it
makes me feel like I carry them with me all
the time. When you're gone, people are going to miss you,
not just oh the five dollars you might have left them.
They're going to be thinking about you, and so what
impact are you having on them is a part of
the conversation as well too.
Speaker 1 (24:52):
Attorney AMBVERSI Saunders. How can we in touch with you?
Speaker 2 (24:57):
My website is the Saundersfirm dot com. I am often
on Instagram at at ask Amber Saunders and then our
offices in Atlanta, but we help people everywhere, but we're
We're located in Buckhead and our number six seven eight
six eight zero four three three suits.
Speaker 1 (25:15):
I appreciate you. I got one minute left. Can just
just a quick cliff note of someone listening, What action
should they take right now? We gave you a contact information,
what action should they take right now? When we talk
about taking their first step, I.
Speaker 2 (25:31):
Think they should sit down and make an asset inventory
of everything, every account, every piece of crypto, everything they
have because what's very difficult if something happens is for
people to figure out where all your things are and
they have to search through your things, so make it easy.
Just get on an Excel spreadsheet, put everything in there
and what the account numbers are and that is a
(25:52):
great start and then you can go talk to somebody
after that.
Speaker 1 (25:54):
Wow. Thank you for taking the time and the passion.
I love that passion. That's what the Money Making common
master Classes all again. I want to invite you back.
And you know for my style now, it's all about winning.
It's all about the uplift, it's all about giving people
information to win. Thank you, Attorney Amber C. Saunders. This
has been another edition of Money Making Conversation Masterclass posted
(26:17):
by me Rashaun McDonald. Thank you to our guests on
the show today and thank you our listening to the
audience now. If you want to listen to any episode
I want to be a guest on the show, visit
Moneymakingconversations dot com. Our social media handle is money Making Conversation.
Join us next week and remember to always leave with
your gifts. Keep winning.
Host
Rushion McDonald
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