September 21, 2022 • 30 mins
Kim is a journalist, writer, author, and TV producer. She was the first female editor in chief of The Source Magazine. Here she discusses her career as a journalist and starting her own production company. Kim also shares the stumbling blocks she encountered during her career.
Host IG:@itstanyatime
Guest IG: @kimosorio1
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey money movers, welcome back to money moves, the daily
podcast determined to give you the keys to the Kingdom
of financial stability, wealth and abundance. Welcome money movers, for
another episode of the money moves podcast powered by Greenwood.
(00:23):
Our expert today is Puerto Rican journalist, writer, author, TV
producer and reality TV personality straight from the Bronx B
K New York. She became the first female editor in
Chief of the source magazine in two thousand and two
and it was under her leadership that the magazine boasted
two of its highest selling issues to date. She has
(00:44):
served as a writer, producer and executive editor and on
air talent for B et, and you may remember seeing
her alongside Angela yee on the V H one reality
series the gossip game, named among the New York Post
top twenty five most influential Tina's in New York. Money Moves,
let's welcome Kim Osorio to the podcast. Hi, Kim, and
(01:07):
welcome to the show. It's a pleasure to cyber see
you here today. Welcome to the money moves podcast. Hey Daniel,
thank you for having me so it is super great
to have you with us and you have had a
long and illustrious career and I'm really excited to share
this with our listeners. One of the things that we
really love about our show is being able to set
(01:27):
out pathways and roadways for others to follow in the
success of incredible entrepreneurs and female boss women like yourself.
So can you start off by telling us a little
bit about how you got into the journalism and entertainment industry? Sure,
Um so, I've been in the game for I like
to call it a game. I don't know why, I
(01:49):
love I've been I've been in the business for Um,
over twenty years. I got into entertainment as a writer.
Of Most people know me from my career as the
editor chief of the source magazine Um so. I started
writing just documenting hip hop culture in the nineties. It
was something that I had grown up on, something that
(02:09):
I come to love, and I really realized I could
find a career in it. Um I actually went to
law school to be a law so that was yeah,
when you're when you're coming up, you know, kind of
uh in the Bronx, like myself, and you're going to
school and you're following a certain path, there are not
a lot of options if you don't have the right
(02:32):
mentors to show you what's out. So for me, I
just always had a passion for the law. I was
interested in it and I went to law school, but
it really honed my skills as a writer and I
think it helped me when I got out of law
school and started to write on my path, Um, just
as a as a writer and then ultimately as a
(02:53):
storyteller and production. So I work now in television production
Um as an executive produce, sir, and there have been
so many things, Um, I've done along the path, but
it's really based in storytelling. I love that. And you
know what I think is so important about this, and
I talk about this all the time, now that we
are telling our own stories, we are now looking back
(03:15):
and we're being able to be the ones who are
at the top of the food chain in entertainment, in journalism,
and we're telling the stories of black women, hip hop
and our culture, and we're now sort of driving those
engines and trains, and I think that is so important
because this is how we then set down tracks for
like future generations to see how we did this. In
(03:35):
your incredible, incredible career, Um, you've written several books, you've
produced many television shows. Talk about, you know, some of
the pivotal points that really helped you get your foot
in the door and anchor your success? I would say,
you know, there were a lot of people that helped
me and that recognized my talent as a writer. Um.
(03:56):
But it's awesome because as a writer I've always been
able to put myself into the story and we've learned
as journalists to keep ourselves out. So there's like a really,
I guess, Um sneaky way that you can do it. Um,
(04:16):
the more that I've done it, the more passionate I've
become about the subject matter that I'm writing about, and
I think it's really helped me so as I navigate
different areas of life that intersects with the storytelling that
I'm doing, and I think that's something that's really fueled, Um,
(04:38):
my work even up until this day. So it go
back to the nineties and everything that you know, we
were doing back then, covering the culture. It was. I
was really living in the culture. So it's learning how
to document that, tell the story, injecting yourself but still
maintaining that integrity as a journalist, and I think that's
(04:58):
what really shines in resonate. Resonates right, that authenticity and
when you go back to the days of the source, right,
the source was driving and telling our culture. And you know,
if you just are able to take a step back
and really just be like, I'm telling my story, I'm
telling the story of all the females, the men beside
me that live this life, I think that's sort of
testament to why you were part of, you know, such
(05:21):
a revolutionary time in magazine and magazine culture. It's pretty incredible.
Thank you, and, you know, I think we need to
recognize the value in our own stories. If you watch Netflix, Hulu,
whatever it is that you choose to watch, you'll see
how we're driving the narratives Um in television, you know,
(05:42):
on the Internet, social media, uh, and if we understand
our power, I think that can help us maximize our success.
That is so true and, you know, I just want
everyone to understand, like what a powerful force you are,
because you were one of the first women in history,
in the history of the magazine, to serve as editor
in chief like that's a huge honor and it's a
(06:04):
huge role to have taken on. What was that like?
And did you feel celebrated and powerful and like you
made it at that time? It was. It was very empowering.
I talk a lot about women in Um, you know,
positions like the one that I held back then. I
was the first editor in chief of the source magazine.
(06:26):
Female Editor in chief. Sorry, back then I was the
first female editor in Chief of the source magazine, but
I wasn't the first female editor. Right, and it's important
to note that there were many who came before me
and they achieved certain levels in their respective areas. Right,
(06:46):
whether it was another magazine, whether it was a different
Um Department of the magazine, they reached those heights and
a lot of times when you get to that, that's celebrated. Right,
you're celebrated as the first fe male editor in chief.
But as a woman you also have to own your
power and say it's not just that I'm a female
(07:06):
which makes me important in this room or qualified or
great or excellent. You're like, I'm just excellent. Right, I'm
often I often use this thing where I'm often called
on these days, like you know, twenty years later, to
talk about women in hip hop. Right, and people are
you know, I'm very, very proud of that. I'm very
um every time. I'm very grateful when people come to
(07:27):
me and ask for my expert opinion, but if you
study the game you'll see that a lot of times
I'm rarely asked to speak on other issues and as
a woman who has grown, you know, after twenty years
in her career and has so much more to offer,
I wonder about that. Why we're still stuck in this
(07:49):
place when we're looking for experts on certain things. Being
hip hop a very male dominated industry, right, I'm not
called upon for that. So it's just something I've analyzed
over the years and wondered about, because there are still
many hurdles that we need to overcome as women. Absolutely,
and I think you know it's it's it's we're working on,
(08:09):
like sort of expanding that myopic vision, like, Oh, Kim
only knows this thing, but no, like in order for
you to have achieved what you have achieved, it has
taken so much knowledge and years of expertise in a
lot of different domains, a lot of different domains, but
I think you know, being able to tell your story
Um is helpful for that. So I understand you've also
(08:30):
written a book. I did I did back in two
thousand and eight I wrote a book about my time
at the source and that book was published with Simon
and Schuster. It was called straight from the source. Um.
That was a very transitional time in my career because
I was telling my own story. It was one of
the first times I took the power in my own
(08:51):
story and decided to write about myself, and that book, Um,
was the beginning of my career even in publishing, because
I worked with a lot of people as even sometimes
a ghostwriter. Yeah, Um, you know, so for I know
there's some secrets in there. So I wish please still
on Kim and then and then there's collaborations, right. So
(09:12):
people often come to me to tell their story and
I've been working with a few different people on on
those Um, on those projects as well. So in that book,
I know you shared a lot of gems about the industry.
Can you talk about some of the major obstacles that
you can recall over the course of your career, because
I feel, like you know, we all are reveling in
(09:33):
success twenty years later, but let's talk about some of
the stumbling blocks that you mentioned. Well, I talked a
lot about the case that I filed against the magazine
at the time and against the owners of the magazine. Um,
it was a case that I feel was a little
ahead of its time when, for example, Hashtag me too
(09:54):
became a thing. So, Kim, just give give us a
brief overview of the case in case people haven't read
the book or don't know the story, and then we'll
get into the obstacles piece, because I think this is
really important. So, and you know, and too, I was
at the source from two thousand and two thousand and
five and after I was let go, I filed, Um,
a sexual harassment, general discrimination, deformation and Um, I think
(10:18):
I left out one claim of the book. So there
were four different claims when I found that against the magazine,
and so in retaliation. That's what I left out. Very
important because I actually wanted the case on defamation and retaliation.
So that was the case. That was Um, you know,
in federal court, and there are a lot of complicated
issues that many people don't even understand to this day
(10:41):
when we talk about a sexual harassment claim o case
like that's still something that I think, you know, people
understand the general concept, but when you get into the
courtroom and the legalities and the procedural issues that you
have to deal with to be victorious in such a claim.
We are still fighting that fight. So, you know, when
(11:04):
we see things like the Hashtag meto movement come out
years later, that's a step in the right direction, because
I believe there is way more power in the court
of public opinion than I do in, you know, sometimes
the court of law of the United States. Yes, which
is incredible because your background is in law. So you
(11:25):
were prepared, you know, when you understand that mentality, and
I don't know if that's that's that's a really powerful
statement what you've said. The Court of public opinion. It's Um.
It's something I believe because of a lot of personal
experiences in my own life. You know, I've seen the
power of the media, I've worked in media Um and
then I fought battles in the court system, and I'll
(11:48):
tell you, my experience is that people will are more
concerned about their behavior when there's a light shining on them. Right.
So when you you know you really have a lot
of power. That's why I said in the beginning of
this interview there's so much power in our story because
our stories that are out there really more even empowering there.
(12:11):
And you know, if you go fight a case in
court you don't have the right attorney, you know, you
have no wins. It doesn't matter what the facts of
the case af you gotta be able to navigate the system. Um.
So that's why, a lot of times, having, you know,
that court of public opinion and having that media play Um,
can be really helpful, and that's why I take my
(12:34):
role in media so seriously, because I understand how much
power comes along with that, of course, and just having
allies that can give a voice to those who perhaps,
you know, don't have all that light shining on them.
Aren't the celebrities that can, you know, have a whole
PR team, and I think that's the beauty of what
journal the heart of essence of what journalism and telling
and storytelling really is true, for sure. So, Kim what's
(12:58):
next for you now? Well, I think I'm really focused now,
and it's great that we started off, I think, by
talking about entrepreneurialism, to build my own brand in a
way that I've never really focused on, you know, Um,
for a long time. And and look, I'll say this
because I'm a mother of three I'm divorced and for
(13:20):
a long time I was chasing checks and we all
get caught up in this check chasing Um phenomenon right
where you just have to go because you have bills
to pay, you have responsibilities. You know, I have a house,
I'm taking care of that. There's a lot of of Um,
you know, just bills that come along with that. But
really building um myself as a business. And, in that
(13:46):
being said, I'm proud to say, even as an executive producer,
how I started my own production company and even though
it is not doesn't have the infrastructure as another big
production company, what I do is loan out my services. So,
you know, it's it's learning how to market yourself so
that you're working for yourself. Oh, I love that, and
(14:09):
I think that's a really important lesson because, you know,
you said something, you've had this career in television. You
have all this intellectual knowledge and property that you built
up your own, and how do you turn that into
a brand so that you can optimize that? So tell
us some of the key points of how you've done that,
because even you said you're like, you're like, I might
not be the biggest production company out there, but how
(14:30):
do you monetize that so it doesn't just feel like
you're chasing checks and you're building a brand? I think
that's a great question and I you know, I'm proud
to say that I'm from the Bronx and I didn't
know these things until I went and actually had to
go through it. Right when I file file to become
an LLC back in I don't know, maybe five or
(14:53):
six years ago, as a production company. I did that
for text reasons, right. I didn't scan, you know. You know,
someone was like, you know, you won't get taxed if
you you know, if you get paid as an LLC.
I'm like, I'm gonna say I'm gonna get all this money.
So I had to learn how to do that as
(15:15):
a business. I had to learn how to work as
a business, right, as an individual. So I found my
llc and then the accounting was different, right. So like,
once you do that and you go sit with your accountant,
now you have to be on top of everything. So
every little expenditure right. And and although I was good
at math in school, I never wanted to do this
(15:37):
stuff right. I never wanted to learn about taxes. To me,
it was I was so boring, but you have to
learn all of these different things and you have to
treat yourself as a business, and that has been a
learning lesson for me. Like you know, the first year
that I did that, those taxes, I said to myself,
why am I paying an accountant? This is crazy, like
(16:00):
I feel like I'm doing everything. But it taught me,
because the accountant can't do everything without you being able
to say, I spent money on this and this and
this is what it was for. And I love that
you say this, because this is the minutia of being
an entrepreneur and owning your own business. Everyone thinks, okay,
there's somebody else out there that's gonna do it, but really, like,
(16:20):
the magic is in the details. If you understand your
own business, if you sit there and you're like, listen,
I understand the tax structures, I understand how I spent
this money and how I can write this off, it's
really you at the end of the day, like you
are the magic, and knowing that is also empowering. Right
once you understand like okay, wait, no, I am a
business because I don't work for a company, I work
(16:43):
for myself. I'm going from show to show. So every
time I go to a different show, I'm with a
different production company. So I have to figure out how
to make that, you know, how to monetize myself and
my services. Okay, so buck magazines television production. Tell us
(17:03):
some of the exciting projects you're working on now under
this amazing brand of Kim. Thank you. It's it's exciting
for me and it's also, Um, concerning. Sometimes I think
like what can I say, because I do have clients
as even a media consultant, right, so I'm like, wait,
can I say that I work with that person? But
then when they publicly say it, I'm like, cool, it's
(17:24):
out there. Yeah, like it's out there so that I
could talk about it. So, UM, one of the book
projects that I'm really proud of working on is telling
this boxy Brown story. So I've been working with her
on that and I know a lot of people anticipate
that because everybody wants to know the INS and outs
of her story and she has not talked about it.
(17:47):
And so, you know, for for me, and it wasn't
until you know, this has been a long time coming.
It wasn't until Foxy said on her instagram she put
it out there. I was like, okay, I can you
know I can say that I was able to do that.
You know, Um, I also just finished a project with
loon Um for his book that's coming out on Simon
and Schuster next year. So we're like in the editing
(18:08):
phase of that and these are stories that are very powerful.
I don't know how many people are familiar with his story,
and you know him going to jail or him converting
to Islam and you know where he is now after
a career in entertainment as a bad boy artist. So, Um,
we just finished. I don't want to say finished because
we're still working on it, but we're finishing up that
(18:29):
project as well. Those are the book projects. I have
a couple of shows and development and I can't talk
about those because all of that stuff is nd. We're
gonna stay tuned, though. It keeps us on, it keeps
the I also work with some high profile artists that
that stuff is NDA. So I never want to say that,
but you know, Um, I think you know, just as
(18:51):
someone who's been in media for a long time, to
be valued by people who are at a certain level
to pay me for my services as a media expert,
that is also been something that has been empowering for me.
So many of our money moves. Audience is interested in
journalism and media, but the industry has changed tremendously over
(19:12):
the last decade. Social media opens the door for so
many to be journalistic and create content and be creatives
in their own rights and respects. Do you think that
in some sense it has ruined the industry or opened
it up for more success? I think it's opened it
up for more success and I think there are people
who haven't necessarily figured out how to transition. Um, and
(19:36):
that's been hard, right, because you have to change with
the times and you have to reinvent yourself, right. That's
just a rule of the game. So, Um, it's been challenging,
I think, for people who come from a specific background
where the industry was a certain way. For Journalists, right
now you're going direct to consumer, you're going direct to
(20:00):
your reader immediately with the click of a button. Um,
so you really have to figure out how to monetize that.
Journalists need to understand and writers and content creators right,
it's it's not all the same thing. Um. Those people
need to understand their value when they are being asked
(20:24):
to create content or to write or to report, because
I think in this game there's become it's become so um,
just flooded with talent that now it's really hard to
separate the different areas and streams of income. That's a
great point, because a tiktok creator is not the same
(20:47):
as a journalist. It's not the same as someone who's
writing for major publications. But at the same time there's
a lot of different outlets where you can go to
and you can get incredible content that's created by, you know,
brilliant creatives. So it's it's it's hard to navigate this
whole industry right now. It's really hard, and especially because
now the lines are very blurred. So even a TIKTOK
(21:09):
creator might want to interview another artist or tiktok creator,
it doesn't necessarily mean that what they're doing is journalism, right.
So it depends. They're creating content and there's nothing wrong
with that. It's the same. It's a difference with blogging
and reporting, right. So a lot of blogs are very,
(21:30):
very successful, Um, and they provide a specific service, right, entertainment,
and so we know that blogging and certain blogs are
different than necessarily media outlets and news sources. So we
just have to as users, understand the difference between Um
those forms of content. So let's dig into journalism in particular,
(21:55):
because I don't know if I'm wrong to say this,
it does feel like a more elevated form of media
and information delivery and we've had so much banter back
and forth about fake news and who's qualified to say which,
and I think you're the perfect person to sort of
give some insight on to this sort of upper echelon
of media and content. What's the best way for an
(22:18):
up and coming writer to get their foot in the
door these days when it comes to journalism in terms
of actual print media, you know, or even network television
as well well? I do believe that, because there are
so many people doing the same things and looking and
looking for the same opportunities, that building your own building
(22:38):
yourself is very valuable to be building your own brand right,
building your own brand. So, you know, I've seen a
lot of even reputable media outlets look for talent based
on Um, their following right. So, even though you know
they might have the skills of a journalist or maybe
(23:00):
a little bit more green, Um media outlets really value
the community they build around them. So I think it's
important to make sure you understand that as a journalist,
because if you're a very strong journalist, and I feel
like our community is getting extremely savvy now, knowing the
(23:20):
difference between fake news and Real News. Right now, you know,
especially after the covid nineteen pandemic, right you can't believe
anything you read. You've got to do your research, and
I'm very big on research. Is something that I think
law school has taught me, going and doing my homework right.
So it's not about one source, even if that source
is reputable. I'M gonna look at a variety of different
(23:42):
sources to be able to formulate my own educated opinion
and put it out there. I love that. And you know,
something you also said earlier really resonated. It's it's the authenticities.
You're trying to build a community, you're trying to get
people to follow you, and they really want to follow
you for what you have to offer. So, like you know,
you might not be the tiktok person who can pull
together the best dances while interviewing like Barack Obama. So
(24:03):
if you be yourself, people gravitate to that and that's how,
I think, you really build strong community and connections where
people will come back to see what you have to say.
Absolutely I feel like it's really important for your community
around you to believe what you're saying. So the more
authentic you are, the more valuable the content is to
(24:25):
your community, to your community. Well said, Kim. I'm also
very fascinated by the publishing industry and how that's sort
of changing, and you've made a great point where you've
sort of started your own company. You're out there, you're
getting contracts to do ghostwriting and help others publish their books.
Can you talk a little bit more about how you've
been able to be successful in this industry and what
(24:46):
it looks like moving forward? Well, I think what we've
heard a lot Um from people like myself is that
relationships are currency, right, so you have to understand the
value of the relationships that you have. Um, a lot
of the publishing deals and even media consultant deals that
(25:06):
I have are based on trust between myself and the
person that I'm working with. So, just like you know,
I I know we talked a little bit about ghostwriting before, right,
you've got to it's a different skill and you've got
to understand what it is. You can't approach it as
a journalist. You've got to speak. You know, you can
use your journalist skills, but you're really connecting with a
(25:30):
specific person and doing your best to try to tell
that person's story in their own voice, and that's important
to understand the difference. Right. So, like if I go
in and, you know, I interview a celebrity for their book,
I should not approach that interview the same way I
(25:51):
approach it if I were writing a story on them. Right,
I have to understand what their struggle is and what
story they want to tell Um. And then you use
your journalist skills to be able to offer advice. Right.
So you want to be able to say, well, I
think the audience would be interested in hearing this. So
have you given any thought to wanting that to be
(26:13):
a part of your story? Right? So there's a little
bit of finesse that goes in there also, and you know,
I think this is one of the things that people understand.
Everyone has their secret sauce, their superpower, their secret talent.
Yours was in music, but you know, the same could
be said for someone who might have been, you know,
I was a nurse for years. Like it probably would
not behoove me to go after someone in the music
industry and be like, I want to tell your story,
(26:35):
but perhaps there's someone in the medical industry that wants
to go to write a book. So, like, I think
it's once people tap into what they're superpower is, then
it becomes much easier to tell those stories and, you know,
pursue careers in those pasts as well. Agreed, and I
always remember right I got into the business and I
started writing about music, I was a fan of music.
(26:58):
Music is therapy. It's still something I'm very big on.
I listened to it's still something that I've instilled in
my children. So that is always going to be a
part of me and that has helped me in my
writing understanding that it started with the music. So I
can connect, especially when I work um with artists on
telling their stories. All right, can you continue to drop
(27:21):
all sorts of gems for us, but as we head
out of this interview, can you please give us a
couple more tips and tricks that you can think of
for aspiring content creators, writers journalists to sort of elevate
and take their career to the next level, whether it's
book deals publishing. What are some of the last tips
that you want to take us out with? Sure, and
(27:43):
as a writer, what I've realized that there are tools
out there that I use, no matter whether it's in television,
working with specific artists on the media consulting end or
writing books. Um, start with a proposal, right. So Times
that proposal could be if it's for a book, you
go out and get a sample book proposal and you
(28:05):
put that together. A lot of times, in television production, right,
people want to tell their stories visually, so you do
a deck and so you build that deck. You're working
with people to execute their vision, so you do that.
So you use specific tools. Sometimes it can be even
as simple as a one sheet that organizes your thoughts
and you send to people so that you have that
(28:27):
down on paper when you're meeting, because you know we
can talk all day, but then when you leave that conversation,
you want your client or your partner to be able
to take something that's tangible, think about it, read it
and respond. And you know me with the law school background,
it's like everything in writing, please, yeah, everything in writing,
you know, and I think that's becoming a lost art.
(28:48):
And it's funny because we're talking about journalism writing, but like,
those are your calling cards and you know that. That,
I think, also helps to build relationships because you know
that person might take that one pager put it aside,
but they find it a month later and they're like, AH,
this is perfect, I need this now. Put it in writing.
Make your decks, make them beautiful, make them pretty and
leave a great impression. I love that, Kim. That's great
(29:08):
advice and it was a pleasure speaking with you today.
I always look forward to speaking with other powerful women
of color where we can just share, build on the
strength of our community and learn from one another. So
thank you so much for joining us today and spending
time and telling us your story and, of course, your
words of wisdom. Thank you, thank you for having me. Thanks, Kim,
(29:28):
and thank you, money movers, for joining us. We'll be
back with more on the money moves podcast. Thank you
so much for tuning in money moves audience. If you
want more or a recap of this episode, please go
to the bank greenwood dot com and check out the
money moves podcast blog. Money moves is an I heeart
(29:49):
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Hey money movers, welcome back to money moves, the daily
podcast determined to give you the keys to the Kingdom
of financial stability, wealth and abundance. Welcome money movers, for
another episode of the money moves podcast powered by Greenwood.
(00:23):
Our expert today is Puerto Rican journalist, writer, author, TV
producer and reality TV personality straight from the Bronx B
K New York. She became the first female editor in
Chief of the source magazine in two thousand and two
and it was under her leadership that the magazine boasted
two of its highest selling issues to date. She has
(00:44):
served as a writer, producer and executive editor and on
air talent for B et, and you may remember seeing
her alongside Angela yee on the V H one reality
series the gossip game, named among the New York Post
top twenty five most influential Tina's in New York. Money Moves,
let's welcome Kim Osorio to the podcast. Hi, Kim, and
(01:07):
welcome to the show. It's a pleasure to cyber see
you here today. Welcome to the money moves podcast. Hey Daniel,
thank you for having me so it is super great
to have you with us and you have had a
long and illustrious career and I'm really excited to share
this with our listeners. One of the things that we
really love about our show is being able to set
(01:27):
out pathways and roadways for others to follow in the
success of incredible entrepreneurs and female boss women like yourself.
So can you start off by telling us a little
bit about how you got into the journalism and entertainment industry? Sure,
Um so, I've been in the game for I like
to call it a game. I don't know why, I
(01:49):
love I've been I've been in the business for Um,
over twenty years. I got into entertainment as a writer.
Of Most people know me from my career as the
editor chief of the source magazine Um so. I started
writing just documenting hip hop culture in the nineties. It
was something that I had grown up on, something that
(02:09):
I come to love, and I really realized I could
find a career in it. Um I actually went to
law school to be a law so that was yeah,
when you're when you're coming up, you know, kind of
uh in the Bronx, like myself, and you're going to
school and you're following a certain path, there are not
a lot of options if you don't have the right
(02:32):
mentors to show you what's out. So for me, I
just always had a passion for the law. I was
interested in it and I went to law school, but
it really honed my skills as a writer and I
think it helped me when I got out of law
school and started to write on my path, Um, just
as a as a writer and then ultimately as a
(02:53):
storyteller and production. So I work now in television production
Um as an executive produce, sir, and there have been
so many things, Um, I've done along the path, but
it's really based in storytelling. I love that. And you
know what I think is so important about this, and
I talk about this all the time, now that we
are telling our own stories, we are now looking back
(03:15):
and we're being able to be the ones who are
at the top of the food chain in entertainment, in journalism,
and we're telling the stories of black women, hip hop
and our culture, and we're now sort of driving those
engines and trains, and I think that is so important
because this is how we then set down tracks for
like future generations to see how we did this. In
(03:35):
your incredible, incredible career, Um, you've written several books, you've
produced many television shows. Talk about, you know, some of
the pivotal points that really helped you get your foot
in the door and anchor your success? I would say,
you know, there were a lot of people that helped
me and that recognized my talent as a writer. Um.
(03:56):
But it's awesome because as a writer I've always been
able to put myself into the story and we've learned
as journalists to keep ourselves out. So there's like a really,
I guess, Um sneaky way that you can do it. Um,
(04:16):
the more that I've done it, the more passionate I've
become about the subject matter that I'm writing about, and
I think it's really helped me so as I navigate
different areas of life that intersects with the storytelling that
I'm doing, and I think that's something that's really fueled, Um,
(04:38):
my work even up until this day. So it go
back to the nineties and everything that you know, we
were doing back then, covering the culture. It was. I
was really living in the culture. So it's learning how
to document that, tell the story, injecting yourself but still
maintaining that integrity as a journalist, and I think that's
(04:58):
what really shines in resonate. Resonates right, that authenticity and
when you go back to the days of the source, right,
the source was driving and telling our culture. And you know,
if you just are able to take a step back
and really just be like, I'm telling my story, I'm
telling the story of all the females, the men beside
me that live this life, I think that's sort of
testament to why you were part of, you know, such
(05:21):
a revolutionary time in magazine and magazine culture. It's pretty incredible.
Thank you, and, you know, I think we need to
recognize the value in our own stories. If you watch Netflix, Hulu,
whatever it is that you choose to watch, you'll see
how we're driving the narratives Um in television, you know,
(05:42):
on the Internet, social media, uh, and if we understand
our power, I think that can help us maximize our success.
That is so true and, you know, I just want
everyone to understand, like what a powerful force you are,
because you were one of the first women in history,
in the history of the magazine, to serve as editor
in chief like that's a huge honor and it's a
(06:04):
huge role to have taken on. What was that like?
And did you feel celebrated and powerful and like you
made it at that time? It was. It was very empowering.
I talk a lot about women in Um, you know,
positions like the one that I held back then. I
was the first editor in chief of the source magazine.
(06:26):
Female Editor in chief. Sorry, back then I was the
first female editor in Chief of the source magazine, but
I wasn't the first female editor. Right, and it's important
to note that there were many who came before me
and they achieved certain levels in their respective areas. Right,
(06:46):
whether it was another magazine, whether it was a different
Um Department of the magazine, they reached those heights and
a lot of times when you get to that, that's celebrated. Right,
you're celebrated as the first fe male editor in chief.
But as a woman you also have to own your
power and say it's not just that I'm a female
(07:06):
which makes me important in this room or qualified or
great or excellent. You're like, I'm just excellent. Right, I'm
often I often use this thing where I'm often called
on these days, like you know, twenty years later, to
talk about women in hip hop. Right, and people are
you know, I'm very, very proud of that. I'm very
um every time. I'm very grateful when people come to
(07:27):
me and ask for my expert opinion, but if you
study the game you'll see that a lot of times
I'm rarely asked to speak on other issues and as
a woman who has grown, you know, after twenty years
in her career and has so much more to offer,
I wonder about that. Why we're still stuck in this
(07:49):
place when we're looking for experts on certain things. Being
hip hop a very male dominated industry, right, I'm not
called upon for that. So it's just something I've analyzed
over the years and wondered about, because there are still
many hurdles that we need to overcome as women. Absolutely,
and I think you know it's it's it's we're working on,
(08:09):
like sort of expanding that myopic vision, like, Oh, Kim
only knows this thing, but no, like in order for
you to have achieved what you have achieved, it has
taken so much knowledge and years of expertise in a
lot of different domains, a lot of different domains, but
I think you know, being able to tell your story
Um is helpful for that. So I understand you've also
(08:30):
written a book. I did I did back in two
thousand and eight I wrote a book about my time
at the source and that book was published with Simon
and Schuster. It was called straight from the source. Um.
That was a very transitional time in my career because
I was telling my own story. It was one of
the first times I took the power in my own
(08:51):
story and decided to write about myself, and that book, Um,
was the beginning of my career even in publishing, because
I worked with a lot of people as even sometimes
a ghostwriter. Yeah, Um, you know, so for I know
there's some secrets in there. So I wish please still
on Kim and then and then there's collaborations, right. So
(09:12):
people often come to me to tell their story and
I've been working with a few different people on on
those Um, on those projects as well. So in that book,
I know you shared a lot of gems about the industry.
Can you talk about some of the major obstacles that
you can recall over the course of your career, because
I feel, like you know, we all are reveling in
(09:33):
success twenty years later, but let's talk about some of
the stumbling blocks that you mentioned. Well, I talked a
lot about the case that I filed against the magazine
at the time and against the owners of the magazine. Um,
it was a case that I feel was a little
ahead of its time when, for example, Hashtag me too
(09:54):
became a thing. So, Kim, just give give us a
brief overview of the case in case people haven't read
the book or don't know the story, and then we'll
get into the obstacles piece, because I think this is
really important. So, and you know, and too, I was
at the source from two thousand and two thousand and
five and after I was let go, I filed, Um,
a sexual harassment, general discrimination, deformation and Um, I think
(10:18):
I left out one claim of the book. So there
were four different claims when I found that against the magazine,
and so in retaliation. That's what I left out. Very
important because I actually wanted the case on defamation and retaliation.
So that was the case. That was Um, you know,
in federal court, and there are a lot of complicated
issues that many people don't even understand to this day
(10:41):
when we talk about a sexual harassment claim o case
like that's still something that I think, you know, people
understand the general concept, but when you get into the
courtroom and the legalities and the procedural issues that you
have to deal with to be victorious in such a claim.
We are still fighting that fight. So, you know, when
(11:04):
we see things like the Hashtag meto movement come out
years later, that's a step in the right direction, because
I believe there is way more power in the court
of public opinion than I do in, you know, sometimes
the court of law of the United States. Yes, which
is incredible because your background is in law. So you
(11:25):
were prepared, you know, when you understand that mentality, and
I don't know if that's that's that's a really powerful
statement what you've said. The Court of public opinion. It's Um.
It's something I believe because of a lot of personal
experiences in my own life. You know, I've seen the
power of the media, I've worked in media Um and
then I fought battles in the court system, and I'll
(11:48):
tell you, my experience is that people will are more
concerned about their behavior when there's a light shining on them. Right.
So when you you know you really have a lot
of power. That's why I said in the beginning of
this interview there's so much power in our story because
our stories that are out there really more even empowering there.
(12:11):
And you know, if you go fight a case in
court you don't have the right attorney, you know, you
have no wins. It doesn't matter what the facts of
the case af you gotta be able to navigate the system. Um.
So that's why, a lot of times, having, you know,
that court of public opinion and having that media play Um,
can be really helpful, and that's why I take my
(12:34):
role in media so seriously, because I understand how much
power comes along with that, of course, and just having
allies that can give a voice to those who perhaps,
you know, don't have all that light shining on them.
Aren't the celebrities that can, you know, have a whole
PR team, and I think that's the beauty of what
journal the heart of essence of what journalism and telling
and storytelling really is true, for sure. So, Kim what's
(12:58):
next for you now? Well, I think I'm really focused now,
and it's great that we started off, I think, by
talking about entrepreneurialism, to build my own brand in a
way that I've never really focused on, you know, Um,
for a long time. And and look, I'll say this
because I'm a mother of three I'm divorced and for
(13:20):
a long time I was chasing checks and we all
get caught up in this check chasing Um phenomenon right
where you just have to go because you have bills
to pay, you have responsibilities. You know, I have a house,
I'm taking care of that. There's a lot of of Um,
you know, just bills that come along with that. But
really building um myself as a business. And, in that
(13:46):
being said, I'm proud to say, even as an executive producer,
how I started my own production company and even though
it is not doesn't have the infrastructure as another big
production company, what I do is loan out my services. So,
you know, it's it's learning how to market yourself so
that you're working for yourself. Oh, I love that, and
(14:09):
I think that's a really important lesson because, you know,
you said something, you've had this career in television. You
have all this intellectual knowledge and property that you built
up your own, and how do you turn that into
a brand so that you can optimize that? So tell
us some of the key points of how you've done that,
because even you said you're like, you're like, I might
not be the biggest production company out there, but how
(14:30):
do you monetize that so it doesn't just feel like
you're chasing checks and you're building a brand? I think
that's a great question and I you know, I'm proud
to say that I'm from the Bronx and I didn't
know these things until I went and actually had to
go through it. Right when I file file to become
an LLC back in I don't know, maybe five or
(14:53):
six years ago, as a production company. I did that
for text reasons, right. I didn't scan, you know. You know,
someone was like, you know, you won't get taxed if
you you know, if you get paid as an LLC.
I'm like, I'm gonna say I'm gonna get all this money.
So I had to learn how to do that as
(15:15):
a business. I had to learn how to work as
a business, right, as an individual. So I found my
llc and then the accounting was different, right. So like,
once you do that and you go sit with your accountant,
now you have to be on top of everything. So
every little expenditure right. And and although I was good
at math in school, I never wanted to do this
(15:37):
stuff right. I never wanted to learn about taxes. To me,
it was I was so boring, but you have to
learn all of these different things and you have to
treat yourself as a business, and that has been a
learning lesson for me. Like you know, the first year
that I did that, those taxes, I said to myself,
why am I paying an accountant? This is crazy, like
(16:00):
I feel like I'm doing everything. But it taught me,
because the accountant can't do everything without you being able
to say, I spent money on this and this and
this is what it was for. And I love that
you say this, because this is the minutia of being
an entrepreneur and owning your own business. Everyone thinks, okay,
there's somebody else out there that's gonna do it, but really, like,
(16:20):
the magic is in the details. If you understand your
own business, if you sit there and you're like, listen,
I understand the tax structures, I understand how I spent
this money and how I can write this off, it's
really you at the end of the day, like you
are the magic, and knowing that is also empowering. Right
once you understand like okay, wait, no, I am a
business because I don't work for a company, I work
(16:43):
for myself. I'm going from show to show. So every
time I go to a different show, I'm with a
different production company. So I have to figure out how
to make that, you know, how to monetize myself and
my services. Okay, so buck magazines television production. Tell us
(17:03):
some of the exciting projects you're working on now under
this amazing brand of Kim. Thank you. It's it's exciting
for me and it's also, Um, concerning. Sometimes I think
like what can I say, because I do have clients
as even a media consultant, right, so I'm like, wait,
can I say that I work with that person? But
then when they publicly say it, I'm like, cool, it's
(17:24):
out there. Yeah, like it's out there so that I
could talk about it. So, UM, one of the book
projects that I'm really proud of working on is telling
this boxy Brown story. So I've been working with her
on that and I know a lot of people anticipate
that because everybody wants to know the INS and outs
of her story and she has not talked about it.
(17:47):
And so, you know, for for me, and it wasn't
until you know, this has been a long time coming.
It wasn't until Foxy said on her instagram she put
it out there. I was like, okay, I can you
know I can say that I was able to do that.
You know, Um, I also just finished a project with
loon Um for his book that's coming out on Simon
and Schuster next year. So we're like in the editing
(18:08):
phase of that and these are stories that are very powerful.
I don't know how many people are familiar with his story,
and you know him going to jail or him converting
to Islam and you know where he is now after
a career in entertainment as a bad boy artist. So, Um,
we just finished. I don't want to say finished because
we're still working on it, but we're finishing up that
(18:29):
project as well. Those are the book projects. I have
a couple of shows and development and I can't talk
about those because all of that stuff is nd. We're
gonna stay tuned, though. It keeps us on, it keeps
the I also work with some high profile artists that
that stuff is NDA. So I never want to say that,
but you know, Um, I think you know, just as
(18:51):
someone who's been in media for a long time, to
be valued by people who are at a certain level
to pay me for my services as a media expert,
that is also been something that has been empowering for me.
So many of our money moves. Audience is interested in
journalism and media, but the industry has changed tremendously over
(19:12):
the last decade. Social media opens the door for so
many to be journalistic and create content and be creatives
in their own rights and respects. Do you think that
in some sense it has ruined the industry or opened
it up for more success? I think it's opened it
up for more success and I think there are people
who haven't necessarily figured out how to transition. Um, and
(19:36):
that's been hard, right, because you have to change with
the times and you have to reinvent yourself, right. That's
just a rule of the game. So, Um, it's been challenging,
I think, for people who come from a specific background
where the industry was a certain way. For Journalists, right
now you're going direct to consumer, you're going direct to
(20:00):
your reader immediately with the click of a button. Um,
so you really have to figure out how to monetize that.
Journalists need to understand and writers and content creators right,
it's it's not all the same thing. Um. Those people
need to understand their value when they are being asked
(20:24):
to create content or to write or to report, because
I think in this game there's become it's become so um,
just flooded with talent that now it's really hard to
separate the different areas and streams of income. That's a
great point, because a tiktok creator is not the same
(20:47):
as a journalist. It's not the same as someone who's
writing for major publications. But at the same time there's
a lot of different outlets where you can go to
and you can get incredible content that's created by, you know,
brilliant creatives. So it's it's it's hard to navigate this
whole industry right now. It's really hard, and especially because
now the lines are very blurred. So even a TIKTOK
(21:09):
creator might want to interview another artist or tiktok creator,
it doesn't necessarily mean that what they're doing is journalism, right.
So it depends. They're creating content and there's nothing wrong
with that. It's the same. It's a difference with blogging
and reporting, right. So a lot of blogs are very,
(21:30):
very successful, Um, and they provide a specific service, right, entertainment,
and so we know that blogging and certain blogs are
different than necessarily media outlets and news sources. So we
just have to as users, understand the difference between Um
those forms of content. So let's dig into journalism in particular,
(21:55):
because I don't know if I'm wrong to say this,
it does feel like a more elevated form of media
and information delivery and we've had so much banter back
and forth about fake news and who's qualified to say which,
and I think you're the perfect person to sort of
give some insight on to this sort of upper echelon
of media and content. What's the best way for an
(22:18):
up and coming writer to get their foot in the
door these days when it comes to journalism in terms
of actual print media, you know, or even network television
as well well? I do believe that, because there are
so many people doing the same things and looking and
looking for the same opportunities, that building your own building
(22:38):
yourself is very valuable to be building your own brand right,
building your own brand. So, you know, I've seen a
lot of even reputable media outlets look for talent based
on Um, their following right. So, even though you know
they might have the skills of a journalist or maybe
(23:00):
a little bit more green, Um media outlets really value
the community they build around them. So I think it's
important to make sure you understand that as a journalist,
because if you're a very strong journalist, and I feel
like our community is getting extremely savvy now, knowing the
(23:20):
difference between fake news and Real News. Right now, you know,
especially after the covid nineteen pandemic, right you can't believe
anything you read. You've got to do your research, and
I'm very big on research. Is something that I think
law school has taught me, going and doing my homework right.
So it's not about one source, even if that source
is reputable. I'M gonna look at a variety of different
(23:42):
sources to be able to formulate my own educated opinion
and put it out there. I love that. And you know,
something you also said earlier really resonated. It's it's the authenticities.
You're trying to build a community, you're trying to get
people to follow you, and they really want to follow
you for what you have to offer. So, like you know,
you might not be the tiktok person who can pull
together the best dances while interviewing like Barack Obama. So
(24:03):
if you be yourself, people gravitate to that and that's how,
I think, you really build strong community and connections where
people will come back to see what you have to say.
Absolutely I feel like it's really important for your community
around you to believe what you're saying. So the more
authentic you are, the more valuable the content is to
(24:25):
your community, to your community. Well said, Kim. I'm also
very fascinated by the publishing industry and how that's sort
of changing, and you've made a great point where you've
sort of started your own company. You're out there, you're
getting contracts to do ghostwriting and help others publish their books.
Can you talk a little bit more about how you've
been able to be successful in this industry and what
(24:46):
it looks like moving forward? Well, I think what we've
heard a lot Um from people like myself is that
relationships are currency, right, so you have to understand the
value of the relationships that you have. Um, a lot
of the publishing deals and even media consultant deals that
(25:06):
I have are based on trust between myself and the
person that I'm working with. So, just like you know,
I I know we talked a little bit about ghostwriting before, right,
you've got to it's a different skill and you've got
to understand what it is. You can't approach it as
a journalist. You've got to speak. You know, you can
use your journalist skills, but you're really connecting with a
(25:30):
specific person and doing your best to try to tell
that person's story in their own voice, and that's important
to understand the difference. Right. So, like if I go
in and, you know, I interview a celebrity for their book,
I should not approach that interview the same way I
(25:51):
approach it if I were writing a story on them. Right,
I have to understand what their struggle is and what
story they want to tell Um. And then you use
your journalist skills to be able to offer advice. Right.
So you want to be able to say, well, I
think the audience would be interested in hearing this. So
have you given any thought to wanting that to be
(26:13):
a part of your story? Right? So there's a little
bit of finesse that goes in there also, and you know,
I think this is one of the things that people understand.
Everyone has their secret sauce, their superpower, their secret talent.
Yours was in music, but you know, the same could
be said for someone who might have been, you know,
I was a nurse for years. Like it probably would
not behoove me to go after someone in the music
industry and be like, I want to tell your story,
(26:35):
but perhaps there's someone in the medical industry that wants
to go to write a book. So, like, I think
it's once people tap into what they're superpower is, then
it becomes much easier to tell those stories and, you know,
pursue careers in those pasts as well. Agreed, and I
always remember right I got into the business and I
started writing about music, I was a fan of music.
(26:58):
Music is therapy. It's still something I'm very big on.
I listened to it's still something that I've instilled in
my children. So that is always going to be a
part of me and that has helped me in my
writing understanding that it started with the music. So I
can connect, especially when I work um with artists on
telling their stories. All right, can you continue to drop
(27:21):
all sorts of gems for us, but as we head
out of this interview, can you please give us a
couple more tips and tricks that you can think of
for aspiring content creators, writers journalists to sort of elevate
and take their career to the next level, whether it's
book deals publishing. What are some of the last tips
that you want to take us out with? Sure, and
(27:43):
as a writer, what I've realized that there are tools
out there that I use, no matter whether it's in television,
working with specific artists on the media consulting end or
writing books. Um, start with a proposal, right. So Times
that proposal could be if it's for a book, you
go out and get a sample book proposal and you
(28:05):
put that together. A lot of times, in television production, right,
people want to tell their stories visually, so you do
a deck and so you build that deck. You're working
with people to execute their vision, so you do that.
So you use specific tools. Sometimes it can be even
as simple as a one sheet that organizes your thoughts
and you send to people so that you have that
(28:27):
down on paper when you're meeting, because you know we
can talk all day, but then when you leave that conversation,
you want your client or your partner to be able
to take something that's tangible, think about it, read it
and respond. And you know me with the law school background,
it's like everything in writing, please, yeah, everything in writing,
you know, and I think that's becoming a lost art.
(28:48):
And it's funny because we're talking about journalism writing, but like,
those are your calling cards and you know that. That,
I think, also helps to build relationships because you know
that person might take that one pager put it aside,
but they find it a month later and they're like, AH,
this is perfect, I need this now. Put it in writing.
Make your decks, make them beautiful, make them pretty and
leave a great impression. I love that, Kim. That's great
(29:08):
advice and it was a pleasure speaking with you today.
I always look forward to speaking with other powerful women
of color where we can just share, build on the
strength of our community and learn from one another. So
thank you so much for joining us today and spending
time and telling us your story and, of course, your
words of wisdom. Thank you, thank you for having me. Thanks, Kim,
(29:28):
and thank you, money movers, for joining us. We'll be
back with more on the money moves podcast. Thank you
so much for tuning in money moves audience. If you
want more or a recap of this episode, please go
to the bank greenwood dot com and check out the
money moves podcast blog. Money moves is an I heeart
(29:49):
radio podcast powered by Greenwood executive produced by Sunwise Media Inc.
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