November 10, 2022 • 47 mins
Danny Haro was Edward James Olmos' right-hand man during his extortion and the production of the movie
Danny Haro worked with Edward James Olmos throughout his career and was instrumental as the link between the filmmaker and the Mexican Mafia. He coordinated the delivery of the script to the prison and served as the go-between for Olmos and the Mexican Mafia.
More Than a Movie: American Me is a podcast that digs into the history and mystery of American Me, a film directed by and starring Edward James Olmos that had a huge impact on Latino cinema and culture. In every episode, our host, Alex Fumero will be diving into the controversy behind the movie.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
One thing that everybody doesn't understand. We had a an advisor.
His name was Tony Casas and he was actually the
deputy warden of San Quentin, so he knew a lot
of those guys their history from Juvenile Hall all the
way through. And one of the claims um that everybody
(00:21):
talks about was that the reason that the m it
was upset was because they showed their a story of
the part of the story was the younger Um Santana
was raped in prison, and everybody denies that. Well, that
actually came from our advisor. According to the advisor who
knew the record of all these guys had tracked them
(00:43):
from Juvenile Hall up to San Quentin. Wholy sh it, Um, Nigel,
please speed up my intro to t X so we
can get into this one. A s A P. Welcome
to More Than a Movie, a podcast that takes into
history and mystery of American me A film directed by
and starring Edward James. Almost they had a huge impact
(01:04):
on LAO, cinema and culture. I'm your host, Alex Omado,
and I'll be diving into the behind the scenes controversy
every episode. I'm gonna try to peel back a layer
of the story by trying to go deeper into the
intentions and motives behind the film and the backlash thirty
years later. Perfect. Now that that's over, I can't wait
for you to hear today's interview. So here's the story.
The podcast is out. It comes out every week. For
the last nine weeks before it came out, we reached
(01:25):
out to somewhere around a couple dozen people associated with
the film, and as you know, most of them said no.
And the reason we got those nos range from I
don't want to bring heat on Edward James almost to
a guy literally hanging up the phone on us when
we were trying to get his wife, a former criminal
defense attorney, to sit for an interview. One of those
(01:46):
knows we got was from a guy named Danny Harrow.
Daniel A. Harrow played the character of Waido in the
movie American Me. He's on our own people listen, nothing
better but to lame farmers, but he had a much
bigger role behind the scenes. Although uncredited as such, he
(02:07):
was Edward James almost as assistant throughout the making of
American Me, and by some accounts accounts he denies, he
served as a kind of intermediary between lay and the production.
Whatever the case, one thing is certain, no one involved
in American Me was closer to almost during the making
of this film and the aftermath that followed. So Danny
(02:30):
initially said no, but he's also friends with Daniel Vierel
and Danny de la Pass the Puppets, And sometime after
episode four came out, we reached back out one more
time to see if Danny Harrow would talk to us
now that he got a chance to see the type
of podcast we were making, and he said, yes. What
you're about to hear now is that rumor busting type
(02:50):
of interview that we've been looking for from someone who
would have had a clear vantage point from the movie
side of things. We'll hear from someone on the Mexican
mafia side of things next week, so make sure you're
subscribed to and follow the show so you don't miss it.
We're gonna learn more about how Danny Harrow came to
work for Almost later in the episode, but for now,
let's just let the interview roll for a bit, because
(03:11):
there's a lot in there we've been waiting to hear. Oh,
and you're gonna hear the voice of my producer Nigel
dwar a lot in this one because we needed to
make sure we got the fact straight and he's an
actual investigative journalist. Well, what I think is significant there
is that what you're saying, if I'm hearing you correctly,
is Edward James almost didn't make this stuff up. Whether
you believe the account of this Warden or not, the
(03:34):
representations of what are in the film are based on
research that Edward James almost did prior to shooting the film.
That's something that I think that's out that that people
think Eddie made up and he didn't. He did not, Well,
he maybe didn't make that up. He did choose to
add it to the film based on the word of
a corrections officer who was actively building a case against Amy.
(03:57):
What Tony Cosass motives to lie to almost could have
been we can only speculate. I have to imagine he
knew something like that in the movie would engender a
response from the Mexican mafia. Either way, I don't take
Casas at his word, and I'm guessing in retrospect almost
wishes he hadn't either. When Sixty Minutes interviewed Gossa, he
certainly was aware of the effect that the scene in
(04:19):
question had, and the news segment reports as fact that
it was a complete work of fiction. Tony Kasas a
retired assistant prison ward and worked with Almost on the film.
He says la Amy was extremely upset by a scene
in which one of the gang's founders was raped in
juvenile hall. The incident never happened, and the gang considers
(04:40):
homosexuality of any kind on affront to witz machismo. Within
a year, three people who served as consultants on the
movie were murdered, including anti gang activist Anna Lizarraga, my
producer Nigel Dora. There's there's just two things. And I
realized that you can't speak thanks to um the you
can't sally speak to me as you were not. But
(05:00):
there's two things we do want to hit from the
stuff that the Trio put the magazine stuff and has
been repeated. The first one is this quote where he
says I was talking about up with names. Almost Trio
says I saved his life, and he won't admit that,
meaning that he saved his life from the gang. I mean,
I I can't speak to that. The only thing I
know was that I mean I followed some of the
(05:22):
the stories, and there was a sixty minute, uh, sixty
minute report that had this secret meeting taped. I don't
know if you've seen that. And they had people talking
about Eddie and putting the hit on Eddie. You're saying
something bad about so, I mean, why it hasn't happened.
(05:44):
I mean, I'm glad it hasn't obviously. Uh if that's Trejo,
if he claims that, I couldn't say yes or no
on that. Uh. We just had I mean Eddie and
had access to a little bit pretty much a lot
of info from the police agencies about what was going
on and things like that. I know, in my particular situation,
(06:08):
I had a solidado following me, which when I was
called into you know, to to be questioned by the
FBI in the U. S. Attorney's office. This was before
those indictments came down. Um, you know, it was funny.
They were like I had like ten lawyers in front
of me, and and they were trying to say, well,
you know, we know you're you want to tell the truth.
(06:30):
What do you mean what can I tell you? Well,
we know that your brother was a police officer. You
know if Highway patrol officer, we know your sister and
your other brothers in the fire department. I said, wow,
what else you know? And we know you want to
tell the truth. I said, really, I don't know what
to tell you. So they began to systematically present evidence
that one I was followed. I used to have, um
(06:53):
each week, I have dinner down in a little Tokyo.
And then they said, well, we picked somebody up that
was watching you. And I said, how do you know?
He says, well, we when we popped them, we looked
at the stuff you had, and he had my name
and where I was going. So that that, I mean,
that frightened me, you know, But um, it just I
(07:15):
knew instinctively that there was nothing that I could say.
I mean with my own legal background. I mean, could
I actually identify a voice put it with a person? No,
you know, um, could I you know, is there anything
I could offer that they already didn't know? I mean,
they had enough on those guys, They had them, you know,
(07:35):
I think I told you box They they that particular
case broke them up in terms of they sentenced them
and sent them throughout the United States. They the concentration
of those guys in California state penal system was then broken. Well.
Emmy was founded in the California prison system back in
nineteen fifty six on the principle of self defense. Hispanic
(07:57):
inmates were forced to band together to protect themselves from
other prison gangs like the Arian Brotherhood and the Black
Guerrilla Family. But within a matter of years they went
from prey to predator season control of prison rackets, gambling,
drug distribution, protection and today they still control the inmate
populations at most prisons in southern California. So they couldn't
(08:19):
whenever they were bringing people to court, they would all
be together and there was information passed and all that stuff,
you know, and and that broke that up. So whatever
they felt the government had against Eddie was nothing compared to, uh,
you know, the more serious charges. I think at the
(08:39):
end they ended up atting a charge. Um, I forget
exactly what it was, not eighten and Benny, but court
threats through intimidation and chorus, and that was the last
charge and eventually dropped it. In the state of California
opened a new prison called Pella in Bay State Prison,
(09:01):
a first of its kind facility intended to keep dangerous
inmates and high profile organized crime figures in almost twenty
four hour isolation. The word is out among convicts. The
one place you don't want to go is Skeleton Bay.
That's what the inmates they are called Pelican Bay State
Prison in California, and you sure don't want to end
up in the security housing unit there, known as the Shoe,
(09:23):
the toughest maximum security prison in the United States. The
state of California that runs it proudly proclaims it's the
wave of the future, designed to isolate prisoners who they
insist are out of control, too violent, too unpredictable to
be housed with a run of the mill murderers and rapists.
Joe Morgan was transferred to this facility, according to stories
(09:44):
from the Old Yard Book One by jam Fitzmorris, which
chronicles two decades inside max custody federal penitentiaries. Danny Trejo
claims that Morgan called him from prison to discuss the
film American Me, but this seems highly unlikely given the
restrictions placed on prisoners there at the time. Hime, a
theory supported by a former high ranking member of the
Mexican mafia who described the phone call between Morgan and
(10:06):
the Shoe at Pelican Bay and Trejo as quote impossible
end quote. So we put the question of communication between
the gang and the outside to Harrow. So what do
you know about conversations between members of the film's production
and Joe Morgan or members of the film's production and
(10:27):
members of the Mexican Mafia before the film was made. Well,
they're the only communication that we had. Um. And what's
interesting was that the script was read. Really I remember
Hazard Park. We read the script. We sat down and
did a reading in front of a person who's no
(10:50):
longer with his name was Charlie Brown. Um. There was
Anna Lisa, who unfortunately was was was murdered. UM. We
were of the impression that the the script was approved
because of the context that the contact that you know,
Charlie Brown had. My understand was Charlie Brown was the
(11:13):
person that operated the MS business and Hazard right, so
he was there u in. Anna also indicated that she
had contact high up in the ring. So we were
on the impression that everything was okay. After the script
was read, the comments UM were positive that again it
(11:35):
was presented that this was an effort to try to
reach the young people to stop the generational uh entering,
the generational continuation of violence in prison. Right. I wanted
to just ask one more thing about Anna, since you
knew her, can you just tell us what was she
like when she was a lot? Like? What was what's
(11:56):
the person on a Lisa? What was she liked? Well,
she was very um very adamant, very determined to break
the silence of gain violence in her life. And that
was always the foundation of why she was working on this,
that she believed in this project and why she participated
to the degree. Uh. She knew what was at stake,
(12:17):
and that was her the new generations of her family coming.
She looked back and saw the generations prior that had
entered into that game life surrounded by that, and um,
uh said, this is my effort to try to stop it.
You know, I had heard that that the reason she was,
you know, killed, because she was ratting things on people
(12:38):
out and this and that. I have no idea you
know about that, and we can't know. But but what
about what about her personality? Like what was it like interacted?
She would she was funny. She would joke around a lot,
serious but funny. You know, that's serious about taking her work,
but knew how to knew how to celebrate or have
a good time, you know. UM, very kind woman, very
(13:00):
respectful of people. UM, very sympathetic in many ways. And uh,
just just I think she saw American me as a way.
This was her way out, a way to help her
family out, you know. Again one films. You know, it's
just a very minute issue of how to address the problem.
You know, it's probably out of twenty ways to how
(13:22):
to change gangs in this country, this American me would
be a maybe one or half of one. But I
think to participate in something like that that was close
to her heart. She was all excited. She was every
day she was advising, helping, could go to ask a
question to her. She's always there to help, you know.
So just a very it was a total shock. I
(13:44):
mean I was blown away when that happened. Yeah, but
a very kind woman, you know, and dedicated and focused.
If those are things that helped describe her. Yeah, I
just remember the guy that came out of the joint
was throwing the ball with us, and that's our adult figures.
So we wanted to be like them. We're gonna emulated
(14:05):
them and emulate them. So Um, you know, we were
under the impression that understanding that we were doing this
not because for sensationalism at all, and he's never done that. Um.
Every story he's told is to be is trying to
reflect history, reality, truth, not sensationalizing it. Um. But we
(14:30):
were under the impression that after reading it, that it
had been approved. And so that's the reason, you know.
Uh So if people say, well, you talk to the
wrong people, I don't know. I can't say. All we
knew was that those were the groups that were guiding us,
those individuals, and they basically, you know, I remember Charlie
Brown like they called him mumbles. Uh, he just kind
(14:54):
of said, you know, boodyoo. You know that was just
And I thought, again, Anna, to her credit, God bless her,
had come from a generation of that where her brother
and her her uh sister, a lot of her family
members had entered into that world. So I think she
had made a decision that this is it's going to
(15:16):
stop because she had a new grandchild as I can remember,
and she said, this has to stop. We cannot continue
with this. So if this work is to do that,
and I believe it is, then yes, I'm for it. So,
but still we were told that it had been cleared
from the higher ups. The purpose of the meeting was
(15:36):
to find to present the final script, I mean in
the sense of any changes. You know, it was a
read through, you know, when you sit down and you
read at the table. Except aiding myself and I see
other people were reading it. But the purpose was to
read it and get any feedback, get any kind of input,
you know, And so it was it was pretty much
(16:00):
to the reading people. I thought it was good. There
wasn't any disagreement. There wasn't anything that was you know,
discussed that indicated any kind of this is not going
to fly, this is wrong, this is not now. It
could be the I mean, I'm just speculating that maybe
they didn't quite understand it. That's always a possibility. But
(16:21):
as far as you know, we understood that it was approved.
This is in the house hazard Yes, well it was
an honest house and she lived right at the top
before he entered into the hazard. Um typical house, living room,
working class. You know, tables were set aside, and you
know there was on it. There was Charlie Brown, um
(16:43):
any myself, I cannot remember other people, but I mean
there might have been two other people that were reading
with us. I'm not sure, but it was pretty much
just we were there to you know, present and hear
any kind of feedback and that kind of stuff. Um,
I mean, we have our community involved in gangs, and
(17:03):
I know for a fact, just my own experience being
in fulsome I mean I looked at you know, year
old kids, twenty four year o kids that are doing
life life, and they've got this look on their face
like what am I doing here? You know, It's just
I mean, I could have been taken it too far,
but you know, we I remember having a meeting with
(17:23):
the inmates and the people that were going to be
working with us. I think there was about two d
people that were considered trust that would work with us
in the scenes. And Eddie asked this question. It's it's
consistent throughout any time he's been at the institutions, even
adult institutions. How many you individuals have had older brothers
(17:46):
or sisters or fathers, mothers that have been served time. Okay,
how many of you have younger brothers or sisters? Then
how many would would have you would like your younger
brothers or sisters to follow into your footsteps. No one's
ever raised their head. Then help us make this film.
(18:07):
That was the plea we're doing something to try to
break that. You've already said you don't want your brothers
or sisters. But guess what, how come you're here, so
obviously you're following. The generation will be aware of it.
Now let's let's stop it, let's break it. And from
that point on we had I mean, because again, if
the inmates didn't want us there, we would have been gone.
(18:29):
Not that, not the prison officials. They don't run the prisons,
the inmates. So to be put out that scene, the
right scene in the prison, that was like a full
twelve hours. That was hot. I remember that day, and
those inmates stayed outside, you know, out of their cell.
So you're telling me that, you know, I mean, that
(18:49):
would have worn off pretty fast, you know, to be
out there and hot sin while some stupid film crews
out there making a film. I don't think there's ever
been a movie in the history of cinema that has
taken over prison like that, you know, where you've had
the cooperation of the inmates. So I mean, you know,
back to Trejo, I I mean, there are some things
(19:10):
you know, from his perspective, and I'm not challenging that
he might have said that, but I don't ever remember
that ever happening that because during that time there were
still threats and I always thought personally, I said, well,
they don't necessarily have to get at Eddie, but they
can get at him through getting people around him. And
they never communicated with you. I never had. I never
(19:34):
had a direct communication other than I spoke to people
who called the office. They would call, they would call
the office to try to speak to Eddie to try
to either get the script or try to find out why,
you know, what was he thinking, you know, things like that.
I never got into it detailed, but I know they called,
and I just turned every communication that I got, I
(19:56):
turned it over to Tony Kastas. Now i'mbeknownst to us
Tony Casas was working with the government at that time.
We've mentioned that Tony Cosas was the guy who allegedly
fed almost that story that would become the underlying inspiration
for the Santana rape and Juby scene. And now we're
seeing that the filmmakers were kind of duped by Casas,
who was working on an investigation with the FEDS into
(20:19):
the dealings of the Mexican mafia in prison. Are you
a snitch if you're already a cop? Or no? Coming up?
We hear how the production communicated with members of the
Mexican Mafia during the making of American Me. Welcome back
(20:43):
to More Than a Movie. American Me. I'm Alex Fometto.
We just heard from Danny Harrow that a California prisons
official was actually the source of the most contentious element
of the script, the rape scene associated with Mexican Mafia
founder Cheyenne Gena. And I think that's that led to
how we got involved with the government's thing, because Tony
(21:05):
was basically collecting whatever he could, any kind of evidence
that could be turned over to the FBI and the
Justice Department. They'll go after these guys. So unbeknownst to us,
we had, you know, people that were kind of working.
So so I want to touch a little bit on
these phone calls. What were what were they like and
(21:27):
what did you say? Hey, can I speak to Edward
James almost Well, he's busy right now, going to take
a message. Well, I'm so and so, and I'd like
to talk to him about the script and I mean
by then we already kind of like, you know, heads up,
what's going on. So I've just taken name number, you know,
pass it on and that was it. I don't think
(21:48):
Eddie ever responded to them, but I think all of
the information about the phone calls went to Tony Kasas,
and you said that they felt like they were trying
to get information on well sure, I mean, you know,
later on in his book he talks about wanting to
reach out to Eddie, you know, trying to find out,
you know, what was going on when he was thinking.
(22:08):
I mean that that you know, I can't see a percent,
but why would they call what? Maybe to threaten him
or I don't know, but it never got farted in
the phone calls, and so you never, you never. One
of the things we heard was that you were you
were credited will use that word with helping get the
script to the Mexican mafia in prison. Sounds like maybe, right, yeah,
(22:34):
this first time I heard of that. So no, I
had I one. I would not do anything that was
outside whatever instructions were given to me by Eddie, Nor
would I do anything like that. You know, somehow because
of the delicateness of this of the story and the
the overall shooting and just severity of the project. You
(22:58):
know that wouldn't I would not do that. I wouldn't
know who to reach out anyway. I don't sure. Well
they were reaching out to you, it sounds like, but
you also had contact, but Charlie Charlie Brown Modricuez right, right,
and that but that was not That was only when
we um met with him collectively. I never met with
him privately or anything like that. Can you tell me
what you remember about Charlie Brown. Like I said, one
(23:21):
of his nicknames was Mumbles. He was very you know,
he he's mumbling. So that was it. I mean again,
the contact that I had primarily was with Anna. Yeah,
so guys like Charlie Brown, I really had no business.
How does he even get involved in the film? And
it makes sense, right because Charlie professional, right, But I
(23:45):
guess Charlie Brown, from my understanding, Charlie Brown was the
designated um crime boss for them within uh, within Hazard.
So that's who made that connect. Who made that? Well,
we knew that. I guess we heard it from Anna
or something. We kind of verified who everybody was, and
(24:05):
I guess where I'm headed is like somebody's gotta go
excuse me, sir? Are you Mr? Brown? Yeah? Well, I
think again we left. We relied on Anna. It was
pretty honest with us, and and she, you know, as
far as I knew everything she told us, we believed
and again telling us that she got the okay. I
(24:27):
remember that we had gotten the okay, that the script
was fine, and I came from Anna. I want to
walk back to something you just said a second ago.
The government, whether it was the FBI, California DJ whomever,
it sounds like the FBI made you guys, unwitting, unknowing
collaborators and an investigation that you didn't know you were
a part of. Right, you're a lawyer, what do you
(24:47):
think about that? I think it was it was wrong.
I mean it calls in the question, you know, the
intent of Tony cosas you know, in the aftermath of
American Me, Almost was called to testify before a federal
grand jury. The original indictment and the racketeering case against
Lamy stated that the gang had tried to extort property
(25:11):
and money from Almost and wanted to kill him following
the movie. According to law enforcement sources, the extortion count
was dropped from the indictment when the actor indicated he
had nothing to say regarding the threats against him. He
has also refused to talk to us about the case.
Is this the Shryock case is a big reco case
with Raymond Shryock and all those big Mexican I see,
(25:34):
so he brought you in. This is the prospect way
after the commicides and everything. This is a couple of
years later. Yeah, okay, okay, So so this is the
big Rico charge. The first time rico has ever been
used against the violent criminal gang before that, they had
not been used before the Rico case. And you're telling
me that they brought you guys in three years later,
at least you they tried to. They they eventually added
(25:58):
an additional charge, right, and um uh. It was like
crazy man. It's just there was no need for that.
They had enough on these guys. They didn't have to
throw you know. I guess they felt a little cherry
on the top for good faith. But they the good
thing is they dropped it. They dropped that charge and
we never had to go to court. The only thing
(26:19):
I had done was I went in front of a
grand jury to give my testimony did ever, James almost
also gets a peinot by the grand jury. So one
more thing on Charlie Brown, and then I want to
move on. So one of the things we heard about him,
and possibly one of the reasons why some of this
went sideways, is because he was a drug addict. That
(26:42):
was alleged right when you were around him. Did he
give you any reason to believe that he was not,
you know, totally coherent. I had heard that he used heroin,
that he used drugs. I mean he didn't, he wasn't
used well, from what I can tell, he wasn't using
the day we were reading the script, right, and I didn't. Again,
(27:04):
I had no connection to him independent of what we
were there for. That was the only day you interacted
with him. I knew of him. I know of him.
I had seen him because we were shooting, so I
knew who he was. People sit there soon so and
I pointed out, but that was it. I didn't know it. Yeah,
obviously we don't. We don't want to spend the whole
time on this kind of stuff. But the last part
(27:25):
that is of significance is is what happened to where
James almost afterwards and the allegation as it goes. You know,
we know for a fact that he applied for a
concealed weapons permit. Um, there's certain things that are just known. Um,
we know for a fact because the internet remembers all
that he has. I think I have found one instance
(27:45):
of him even talking about American me since since the
year it came out. Um uh. And it was it
was an impromptu question at a film school because as
we know, he like spends countless hours. I don't know
how the guy has so much time in between his
career to like go to all these functions with these
young filmmakers, but he does, and bless him, and and
(28:06):
that was it. And so part of the reasoning was
that he was extorted essentially, that like the Mexican mafia
went to him. And we have heard as something you know,
there's like insane rumors about a million dollars, but what
the the figures that seemed to be more down to
earth were about a hundred to fifty thousan dollars that
he was asked to pay and that he did pay,
and that as a result, essentially all sort of harm
(28:30):
that would come his way, you know, went away. He
doesn't have to worry about that stuff anymore. Um, what's
your experience of the threats and aftermath that came to
him as a result of that. Give you Eddie's response
to something like that. Do you think if if anybody
gave money, if you give me a hundred fifty dollars
(28:50):
and I'll leave you alone. So somebody gives you, think
they're going to stop? That's that's the simple answer that
if you say yes to any of that, it won't end.
They can always go back, well, we need another hundred
fifty and we're gonna do you see what I'm saying.
So so that's the answer right there. It's preposterous. I mean,
I think that's a I think that's a very viable,
(29:13):
uh answer. However, I think from what we've learned from
our source within Liama, they see themselves as a business, right.
And so if I was running a business and my
business revolved around me telling you you better give me
fifty dollars, you're gonna die, and then I asked for
thy tholls, and then I asked for another and another another,
Probably people are going to stop paying me. But if
(29:34):
you give me through tho dollars, and then I don't
kill you. Well, then we've completed a business transaction. Turned
that around. Give me another fifty. I'm going to kill you.
I mean you always have that as you're operating motive operandi.
You know, I have your your life in my hands.
So how value is fifty? Is fifty or is it more?
(29:55):
I mean, think about it for you know. I mean
that's unfortunately way these guys operate. So so without being
specific to my answer, that's the answer that gives you
the the idea of whether there's truth in that or not.
Does that make sense? It does, regardless of whether he paid.
Would you be able to confirm that at least the
(30:16):
extortion threat was made. I couldn't. I'm sure you know,
I'm sure at some point they try and but from
my uh understanding it, I'd never heard of it. I
read about that. I read about that. I never had
any conversations with It's not something you yeah, yeah, it's yeah.
(30:39):
I mean I'm sure that people thought about it, um
you know, from that side, and thought about money, But
I don't think that ever I heard I read about it.
I never heard anything Eddie's telling me anything about that.
So I want to talk about Edward James almost and
the movie and how Edward James almost sort of comes
to be in the position that he's in. But I
(31:00):
want to talk about it in terms of your experience
of this guy, right, because you were living in Arizona. Right,
you're a public defender. Can you tell me the story
of how you came to meet Edward jams All? Well,
you know we, uh, I was working also in a
civil rights law center name tuc Sound Coalition for Justice,
and we were working on a lot of the same
unfortunate things that occurred today, you know, police brutality, mistreatment
(31:25):
of undocumented people, murder on the border of undocumented people.
So a lot of those things were going on. And
the night two, there was a movie that came out
on PBS called The Battle of Cortez, which is a classic.
I think it's one of any's best films. Um And
(31:46):
for those who may not not know about the story,
but it's a true story. In nineteen o one, this
Tejano was accused of stealing a horse and because of
one mistranslated word, yeah, what goyo female horse, male horse? Uh,
it created multiple murders. The Texas Rangers, who were notorious
for killing Indians and Mexicans at that time, Chase Cortez
(32:10):
for eleven days, all up and down throughout Texas to plant,
and the planes killing Mexicans as they went along. They
finally caught them, and uh, there's an incredible scene, uh
if you haven't seen the film where Eddie's comes to
realization that all of this because of a word. And
I thought that that film would be incredible for our community.
(32:34):
What we were doing. I had no idea how to
get it. I knew Eddie, I heard about it Ward
James almost. I just started picking up the phone, calling, hey,
you try this number about five, seven, ten, twenty leads.
So finally, yeah, I could take a message for eight. Okay, great, great.
So you know I didn't exactly and I didn't this
(32:58):
three I think, so, I you know, I didn't expect
Eddie to call me. I thought, you know, a big actor,
an assistant would call and he goes, hey, is Danny
is Edward James Alm was like, well hey Eddie, so
he goes, yeah, listen, we'd love to bring you out
to uh Tucson. We'd love to show the film. H
And at that time, Eddie was in the process of
(33:20):
trying to convince Hollywood that a film that aired on
television could be redistributed theatrically and you can make money
off of it. The feeling was no way, when something's
on TV, that's the kiss of death and forget about it.
So Eddie was committed to say no, this film has
a has a life of its own and we could
(33:40):
get it distributed ahead of his time, ahead of his time,
so so, you know, he was I said, hey, I'd
love to bring you out show the film. Great. You know,
he wasn't making a lot of money at the time.
You know, he wasn't before Miami Weis and I think
he was right after zoot Suit and I think he'd
done wolf In, you know, so he was getting to grow,
(34:01):
but he wasn't where he was. So he said, hey,
do you think you can cover some expenses? I said, yeah, well,
you know, thinking we could try to you raise money
for you You'll raise money for our tuc Sound Cooldership
for Justice. Okay, so sure enough, if we pick a date.
He comes out and he's carrying these cans of film
and I had no idea, you know, Okay, it's the
film and unbeknownst to me, those thirty five millimeter prints.
(34:26):
You have to use two gigantic projectors, right, project doors
And I'll get back to that word. So you know,
no problem, don't even discuss it. I think he thinks
I know what I'm doing, which I didn't. So we
took him. He said, look, take me to classes. Take me.
We took him to some Indian reservations out there the
Pima tribe. Filled his day of talking and meeting with kids. Okay.
(34:49):
So um, the night of the screen, he goes, okay,
you're ready. You got to project doors? Ready? And I
said project one projector? He said, no, man, you need
to project this. So this is just about he was
ready to go on stage, you know, prior to the
to the film, so we had it was in Tucson
High School. They were about fift dred people jammed and
(35:11):
so I saw Eddie, it's gonna take us two hours
to get up to Phoenix and go to this location
and get the project doors bring them back. Okay. So
he you know, I got my crew go up there
to drive and I hung out and I have never
before seen anyone hold an audience for two hours where
(35:33):
he sang, danced, He did scenes from El Pachuco talked
about life. It was amazing. He held, he held, he
held the audience and I guys got back. Then we
got a projectionist and knew they were doing They saw
the film. I'm guessing he was very gracious about it.
Well he was, he was. I mean, I think he
he realized he was dealing with amateurs at the time.
(35:55):
Later on, as we went on, NAIMI was like, pretty strict,
but we gotta do and I understand as a filmmaker
you want your work presented in the best possible line. Right. Well,
what happened was I quit. I resigned because so anyway,
we had this big dance for him. We raised I
think a couple of thousand for him, made a couple
of thousand for us. It was like, hey, great. So
(36:17):
he says, hey, listen, man, he says, at the end
of the night, I'm taking him back to this hotel.
He said, would you consider coming back and working with me?
You know, I love the work we were doing, but
I thought, wow, if we could make the kind of
change that I would like to do with the imagery
of ourselves, that could be worth it. So, uh so
I quit. Coming up, we'll hear more from Danny horror
(36:41):
about Edward James almost the actor and Edward James almost
the activist. But first, my apologies to Kyle one seven
one seven one seven one seven one seven one welcome back.
This is more than a movie. I'm Alex Fumetto. We're
talking to Danny Harrow, who helped take one of almost
his earliest movies on a barnstorming tour across the country.
(37:04):
He is somebody that I remember was always willing to
give time wise. I mean, I remember there were several
actors that I met because of Eddie Row. Julia was
one of them, you know, and his his focus, his focus,
and our little quick story about all Julia we I
think he was doing nine on Broadway at that time,
(37:24):
and um so we Eddie myself had dinner with him
and his new wife, who was Jewish. He wasn't Puerto Rican,
I mean not that she couldn't be Puerto Rican Jewish,
but I mean she was non Latina and so New
York you kind of just blend in. Nobody is gawking.
But the man was so loud, and he had just
(37:44):
come off the stage and he was he was just
he was just like whisper Eddie. You know that, And
it's like I was just thinking, is anybody you know?
Because everybody's chattering? But I just laughing. He grew up
in Miami, Okay, he knows he couldn't hell that were
so loud. He couldn't help it, I guess because he
was right off the stage. So maybe he's still hyped.
(38:07):
But he was just very loud. It's just how That's
what I remember about Ogilia is very loud, very friendly,
very loving, and he and Eddie drew very close. Well,
it's but it's what's interesting, is okay. So Edward James
almost one of the themes in this podcast is very
James almost the artist and Edward James almost the activist, right,
and that those two things interweave and inform each other. Um,
(38:28):
And so you seem to be brought on I mean, yes,
definitely the work about of Gregorio correct Cortez. But I
have to imagine a lot of your kind of act
more activist oriented work. But then you just said that
you're an actor, So I would like to know how
you went from a public defender to whittle. And when
I grow up, I'm going to be something else too.
(38:49):
I keep changing. But but no, I I you know
it was because I'll never forget um. I was, let's
see seventy seven, I graduate from law school and seventy
and I saw zoot Suit, zoot suited Lert. It's incredible. Man.
I wonder if Louis Valdez understands, like we've already talked
to this audience is exhausted with me talking about fucking
zoot suit. I get it, But do you see what
(39:10):
I mean? I keep going back to this fucking play
because it's like both the puppets, uh sal Lopez like
obviously Edward James almost now we're here sitting talking to
Danie Harror and he's like, well, I saw this play.
It was called Zusu. It's like, it's fucking This play
changed so many lives, a lot of impact, a lot
of impact. And I think I remember Andy Garcia talking about,
(39:32):
of course, I can tell you that originally meeting Eddie
and being involved with a bellot gonna go to Cortez,
he had pretty much the same goals, you know, and
that was to tell this incredible story, tell our history,
begin to show Hollywood that hey, we we matter, we
have the numbers. I think that's always been there. Um,
(39:54):
did America me sharpen his focus? Um? Could be. I
never talked him about that. I pretty much think that
it's just a continuation of Eddios just who he is. Yes,
that somehow he would create some some path to be
able to achieve what did he really tell Michael Man
No five times? I believe that, Yes, I've heard that story. Um,
(40:16):
you know, and he always says that you say no
and they keep coming back and giving you one for him. Yeah,
but I guess they wanted Eddie and uh, he fought
to try to get a contract that if he was
ready to do projects, that he would be given so
he could do more bad of But at that time
(40:40):
it would have been the project on his mind when
he's going Latino projects, it's the one you worked on. Yeah, yeah,
And and so I think he saw that where he
was headed with that. Didn't necessarily want to get bug
bogged down with television a series, but you know, probably
thought that he could create a character that would be
unique and different, and obviously it was. He got an
(41:02):
Emmy for that for Lieutenant Castile. I do believe his
will is such that he's pretty insistent on what he wants,
and people generally, I've seen people been to his will
for the most part, I've also seen po will be
upset about it. I mean, he's had some, uh with
other known directors problems, but for the most part, it's
(41:24):
almost like, how can you say no to his mission?
You know, in terms of what he wants to do.
If you're a director or running a project that has
you know, and you see it has some kind of moral, political,
social relevance in an industry that's lacking, most people are
gonna say, you know, I respect what you're doing and
(41:45):
I want to work with you because of your artistry,
your skill set, but I also want to accommodate your
schedule he said. He said he made more. Yeah, that's
that's true. Yeah, well, I mean I don't have a
lot more. I want to know if you had any
follow ups that I forgot about, just a couple. In
an ideal world, you'd be sitting here at some point.
(42:07):
We would have got you at some point, and a
different point we would have every James almost sitting here.
Obviously he's not going to talk about this this movie.
The only thing I want to know on that score
is one of the things we've been talking about this podcast,
is that this movie was intended to prevent violence. Uh
in a way. You know, some of the events cause
some violence, and I don't know how he falls on that.
Does he do you think? And maybe you can't say,
(42:28):
but for me, I wonder does he look at this
experience and say I should never have fucking done that,
or does he look at it and say it was
misinterpreted and it didn't go away I wanted to go.
Or does he say that's kind of how it went
and that's that's that's history and that's life. I would
say that he very much loved Anna, was very close
to Anna, and if if we had the ability to
see what was to take him, but it was going
(42:49):
to take place, I don't think, you know, he would
have continued. I don't think in our wildest dreams, even
though we were indirectly aware of the Dane jurors or
directly where the dangerous you know, we thought that this
would possibly happen. So it was unexpected. Um, I do know.
I can speak to the intent, and it was really
(43:12):
that the reason this film was made was to try
to reach our young people. Um. You know, I think
that at the core. That was what he was trying
to do. And as you try, if you're if your
intentions are pure, and the results are negative, I guess
that's like wow, you know, it's shocking. But his intent
(43:34):
was to do that. I well, to that point, I
can say this, I know for a fact, being in
the airport together or by myself, I can speak to
people coming up and and saying, you know, and I'm
glad you made that film because I took my son
and my daughter, my daughter who were very curious about gangs,
(43:55):
and when they saw that film, they might have been
on the fence and they fell off the so called wantabes.
You know. Now, uh, this is just my opinion. For
those people that were deep into it already, it probably
had the effect of like I can't wait to be
like Santana, you know, but those people already in it.
But I think for the people that the generations are,
(44:16):
the young people that thought about, hey, this is kind
of interesting, it's cool, put the brakes on and take
a look at what it's really like, what gain life
is really like. And most people that have been in it,
to a person said this film is important to do
because I we want our young people to realize, if
you're going to get involved in this, then this is
(44:38):
these are these comments were fermment people. If if you're
going to join us, then we want you to really
know what this is about so you have no excuse.
And then I guess my last question is you're you
say I and I and I agree with you, like
you know, you make a movie. The movie itself is
not going to stop whatever cause it is. Um do
(45:02):
you think Edward James almost would agree, well, yes and no.
The images that how powerful the imagery that comes out
of this community, out of Hollywood, of television films, how
important that is that it shapes our minds. So to
say that if we argue, because a lot of arguments
(45:22):
come about that all they see us in Hollywood gang
bangers and you know, and there are elements to that,
and there's there are some true stories within that, but
is that all we are? No? Absolutely, and the issue
the argument is we need to tell more of the
all the other sides to our community. But I think
Eddie would and I agree, I would say this, but
(45:44):
he would think this was an important film to make.
It definitely was the imagery that we see of ourselves
carries to this day. What we see, how they see,
how they see us are Do they just see us
as gang members? People's society? You continue that that that image,
the negative image. No. I mean he's done standing delivery,
He's done other things. That was one aspect that he
(46:07):
was interested in because he saw the high number of
our of our kids in the communities getting into game.
My dude was a space admiral, you know what I mean,
let's not that you know the first he says, the
first alien in space, like you know, and he said
(46:30):
it said it was funny. Yeah. On our second to
last episode of the season, we finally sit down with
someone who had direct knowledge of this whole situation from
the inside, a high ranking former member of the Mexican mafia,
the prison gang. The movie American Me was based on
Edward James almost scared to death, right, I get that.
(46:51):
You know, he put it for a license for a
concealed weapon. He left the country for a while and
you really didn't have to. He scared himself. He's seen
his own demons, you know, he created his own team
is you know, he was seeing ghosts in every corner.
That's on the next episode of More Than a Movie.
American Me More than a Movie. American Me is a
production of Exile Content Studios in partnership with I Hearts
(47:14):
podcast Network and Trojan Horse Media. The show is produced
by me Alex Fumeto at Angry Yuka on the internets,
and our senior producer is Nigel Dora. Our executive producers
are Rose Red, Nando Vila and Korean Taps. Production assistance
from Sabine Jansen. Mixing and sound designed by Guado Albornos.
Our executive producers at I Heart are Gisel Bances and
(47:34):
Arlene Santana. For more podcasts, listen to the I Heart
Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your
favorite shows.
One thing that everybody doesn't understand. We had a an advisor.
His name was Tony Casas and he was actually the
deputy warden of San Quentin, so he knew a lot
of those guys their history from Juvenile Hall all the
way through. And one of the claims um that everybody
(00:21):
talks about was that the reason that the m it
was upset was because they showed their a story of
the part of the story was the younger Um Santana
was raped in prison, and everybody denies that. Well, that
actually came from our advisor. According to the advisor who
knew the record of all these guys had tracked them
(00:43):
from Juvenile Hall up to San Quentin. Wholy sh it, Um, Nigel,
please speed up my intro to t X so we
can get into this one. A s A P. Welcome
to More Than a Movie, a podcast that takes into
history and mystery of American me A film directed by
and starring Edward James. Almost they had a huge impact
(01:04):
on LAO, cinema and culture. I'm your host, Alex Omado,
and I'll be diving into the behind the scenes controversy
every episode. I'm gonna try to peel back a layer
of the story by trying to go deeper into the
intentions and motives behind the film and the backlash thirty
years later. Perfect. Now that that's over, I can't wait
for you to hear today's interview. So here's the story.
The podcast is out. It comes out every week. For
the last nine weeks before it came out, we reached
(01:25):
out to somewhere around a couple dozen people associated with
the film, and as you know, most of them said no.
And the reason we got those nos range from I
don't want to bring heat on Edward James almost to
a guy literally hanging up the phone on us when
we were trying to get his wife, a former criminal
defense attorney, to sit for an interview. One of those
(01:46):
knows we got was from a guy named Danny Harrow.
Daniel A. Harrow played the character of Waido in the
movie American Me. He's on our own people listen, nothing
better but to lame farmers, but he had a much
bigger role behind the scenes. Although uncredited as such, he
(02:07):
was Edward James almost as assistant throughout the making of
American Me, and by some accounts accounts he denies, he
served as a kind of intermediary between lay and the production.
Whatever the case, one thing is certain, no one involved
in American Me was closer to almost during the making
of this film and the aftermath that followed. So Danny
(02:30):
initially said no, but he's also friends with Daniel Vierel
and Danny de la Pass the Puppets, And sometime after
episode four came out, we reached back out one more
time to see if Danny Harrow would talk to us
now that he got a chance to see the type
of podcast we were making, and he said, yes. What
you're about to hear now is that rumor busting type
(02:50):
of interview that we've been looking for from someone who
would have had a clear vantage point from the movie
side of things. We'll hear from someone on the Mexican
mafia side of things next week, so make sure you're
subscribed to and follow the show so you don't miss it.
We're gonna learn more about how Danny Harrow came to
work for Almost later in the episode, but for now,
let's just let the interview roll for a bit, because
(03:11):
there's a lot in there we've been waiting to hear. Oh,
and you're gonna hear the voice of my producer Nigel
dwar a lot in this one because we needed to
make sure we got the fact straight and he's an
actual investigative journalist. Well, what I think is significant there
is that what you're saying, if I'm hearing you correctly,
is Edward James almost didn't make this stuff up. Whether
you believe the account of this Warden or not, the
(03:34):
representations of what are in the film are based on
research that Edward James almost did prior to shooting the film.
That's something that I think that's out that that people
think Eddie made up and he didn't. He did not, Well,
he maybe didn't make that up. He did choose to
add it to the film based on the word of
a corrections officer who was actively building a case against Amy.
(03:57):
What Tony Cosass motives to lie to almost could have
been we can only speculate. I have to imagine he
knew something like that in the movie would engender a
response from the Mexican mafia. Either way, I don't take
Casas at his word, and I'm guessing in retrospect almost
wishes he hadn't either. When Sixty Minutes interviewed Gossa, he
certainly was aware of the effect that the scene in
(04:19):
question had, and the news segment reports as fact that
it was a complete work of fiction. Tony Kasas a
retired assistant prison ward and worked with Almost on the film.
He says la Amy was extremely upset by a scene
in which one of the gang's founders was raped in
juvenile hall. The incident never happened, and the gang considers
(04:40):
homosexuality of any kind on affront to witz machismo. Within
a year, three people who served as consultants on the
movie were murdered, including anti gang activist Anna Lizarraga, my
producer Nigel Dora. There's there's just two things. And I
realized that you can't speak thanks to um the you
can't sally speak to me as you were not. But
(05:00):
there's two things we do want to hit from the
stuff that the Trio put the magazine stuff and has
been repeated. The first one is this quote where he
says I was talking about up with names. Almost Trio
says I saved his life, and he won't admit that,
meaning that he saved his life from the gang. I mean,
I I can't speak to that. The only thing I
know was that I mean I followed some of the
(05:22):
the stories, and there was a sixty minute, uh, sixty
minute report that had this secret meeting taped. I don't
know if you've seen that. And they had people talking
about Eddie and putting the hit on Eddie. You're saying
something bad about so, I mean, why it hasn't happened.
(05:44):
I mean, I'm glad it hasn't obviously. Uh if that's Trejo,
if he claims that, I couldn't say yes or no
on that. Uh. We just had I mean Eddie and
had access to a little bit pretty much a lot
of info from the police agencies about what was going
on and things like that. I know, in my particular situation,
(06:08):
I had a solidado following me, which when I was
called into you know, to to be questioned by the
FBI in the U. S. Attorney's office. This was before
those indictments came down. Um, you know, it was funny.
They were like I had like ten lawyers in front
of me, and and they were trying to say, well,
you know, we know you're you want to tell the truth.
(06:30):
What do you mean what can I tell you? Well,
we know that your brother was a police officer. You
know if Highway patrol officer, we know your sister and
your other brothers in the fire department. I said, wow,
what else you know? And we know you want to
tell the truth. I said, really, I don't know what
to tell you. So they began to systematically present evidence
that one I was followed. I used to have, um
(06:53):
each week, I have dinner down in a little Tokyo.
And then they said, well, we picked somebody up that
was watching you. And I said, how do you know?
He says, well, we when we popped them, we looked
at the stuff you had, and he had my name
and where I was going. So that that, I mean,
that frightened me, you know, But um, it just I
(07:15):
knew instinctively that there was nothing that I could say.
I mean with my own legal background. I mean, could
I actually identify a voice put it with a person? No,
you know, um, could I you know, is there anything
I could offer that they already didn't know? I mean,
they had enough on those guys, They had them, you know,
(07:35):
I think I told you box They they that particular
case broke them up in terms of they sentenced them
and sent them throughout the United States. They the concentration
of those guys in California state penal system was then broken. Well.
Emmy was founded in the California prison system back in
nineteen fifty six on the principle of self defense. Hispanic
(07:57):
inmates were forced to band together to protect themselves from
other prison gangs like the Arian Brotherhood and the Black
Guerrilla Family. But within a matter of years they went
from prey to predator season control of prison rackets, gambling,
drug distribution, protection and today they still control the inmate
populations at most prisons in southern California. So they couldn't
(08:19):
whenever they were bringing people to court, they would all
be together and there was information passed and all that stuff,
you know, and and that broke that up. So whatever
they felt the government had against Eddie was nothing compared to, uh,
you know, the more serious charges. I think at the
(08:39):
end they ended up atting a charge. Um, I forget
exactly what it was, not eighten and Benny, but court
threats through intimidation and chorus, and that was the last
charge and eventually dropped it. In the state of California
opened a new prison called Pella in Bay State Prison,
(09:01):
a first of its kind facility intended to keep dangerous
inmates and high profile organized crime figures in almost twenty
four hour isolation. The word is out among convicts. The
one place you don't want to go is Skeleton Bay.
That's what the inmates they are called Pelican Bay State
Prison in California, and you sure don't want to end
up in the security housing unit there, known as the Shoe,
(09:23):
the toughest maximum security prison in the United States. The
state of California that runs it proudly proclaims it's the
wave of the future, designed to isolate prisoners who they
insist are out of control, too violent, too unpredictable to
be housed with a run of the mill murderers and rapists.
Joe Morgan was transferred to this facility, according to stories
(09:44):
from the Old Yard Book One by jam Fitzmorris, which
chronicles two decades inside max custody federal penitentiaries. Danny Trejo
claims that Morgan called him from prison to discuss the
film American Me, but this seems highly unlikely given the
restrictions placed on prisoners there at the time. Hime, a
theory supported by a former high ranking member of the
Mexican mafia who described the phone call between Morgan and
(10:06):
the Shoe at Pelican Bay and Trejo as quote impossible
end quote. So we put the question of communication between
the gang and the outside to Harrow. So what do
you know about conversations between members of the film's production
and Joe Morgan or members of the film's production and
(10:27):
members of the Mexican Mafia before the film was made. Well,
they're the only communication that we had. Um. And what's
interesting was that the script was read. Really I remember
Hazard Park. We read the script. We sat down and
did a reading in front of a person who's no
(10:50):
longer with his name was Charlie Brown. Um. There was
Anna Lisa, who unfortunately was was was murdered. UM. We
were of the impression that the the script was approved
because of the context that the contact that you know,
Charlie Brown had. My understand was Charlie Brown was the
(11:13):
person that operated the MS business and Hazard right, so
he was there u in. Anna also indicated that she
had contact high up in the ring. So we were
on the impression that everything was okay. After the script
was read, the comments UM were positive that again it
(11:35):
was presented that this was an effort to try to
reach the young people to stop the generational uh entering,
the generational continuation of violence in prison. Right. I wanted
to just ask one more thing about Anna, since you
knew her, can you just tell us what was she
like when she was a lot? Like? What was what's
(11:56):
the person on a Lisa? What was she liked? Well,
she was very um very adamant, very determined to break
the silence of gain violence in her life. And that
was always the foundation of why she was working on this,
that she believed in this project and why she participated
to the degree. Uh. She knew what was at stake,
(12:17):
and that was her the new generations of her family coming.
She looked back and saw the generations prior that had
entered into that game life surrounded by that, and um,
uh said, this is my effort to try to stop it.
You know, I had heard that that the reason she was,
you know, killed, because she was ratting things on people
(12:38):
out and this and that. I have no idea you
know about that, and we can't know. But but what
about what about her personality? Like what was it like interacted?
She would she was funny. She would joke around a lot,
serious but funny. You know, that's serious about taking her work,
but knew how to knew how to celebrate or have
a good time, you know. UM, very kind woman, very
(13:00):
respectful of people. UM, very sympathetic in many ways. And uh,
just just I think she saw American me as a way.
This was her way out, a way to help her
family out, you know. Again one films. You know, it's
just a very minute issue of how to address the problem.
You know, it's probably out of twenty ways to how
(13:22):
to change gangs in this country, this American me would
be a maybe one or half of one. But I
think to participate in something like that that was close
to her heart. She was all excited. She was every
day she was advising, helping, could go to ask a
question to her. She's always there to help, you know.
So just a very it was a total shock. I
(13:44):
mean I was blown away when that happened. Yeah, but
a very kind woman, you know, and dedicated and focused.
If those are things that helped describe her. Yeah, I
just remember the guy that came out of the joint
was throwing the ball with us, and that's our adult figures.
So we wanted to be like them. We're gonna emulated
(14:05):
them and emulate them. So Um, you know, we were
under the impression that understanding that we were doing this
not because for sensationalism at all, and he's never done that. Um.
Every story he's told is to be is trying to
reflect history, reality, truth, not sensationalizing it. Um. But we
(14:30):
were under the impression that after reading it, that it
had been approved. And so that's the reason, you know.
Uh So if people say, well, you talk to the
wrong people, I don't know. I can't say. All we
knew was that those were the groups that were guiding us,
those individuals, and they basically, you know, I remember Charlie
Brown like they called him mumbles. Uh, he just kind
(14:54):
of said, you know, boodyoo. You know that was just
And I thought, again, Anna, to her credit, God bless her,
had come from a generation of that where her brother
and her her uh sister, a lot of her family
members had entered into that world. So I think she
had made a decision that this is it's going to
(15:16):
stop because she had a new grandchild as I can remember,
and she said, this has to stop. We cannot continue
with this. So if this work is to do that,
and I believe it is, then yes, I'm for it. So,
but still we were told that it had been cleared
from the higher ups. The purpose of the meeting was
(15:36):
to find to present the final script, I mean in
the sense of any changes. You know, it was a
read through, you know, when you sit down and you
read at the table. Except aiding myself and I see
other people were reading it. But the purpose was to
read it and get any feedback, get any kind of input,
you know, And so it was it was pretty much
(16:00):
to the reading people. I thought it was good. There
wasn't any disagreement. There wasn't anything that was you know,
discussed that indicated any kind of this is not going
to fly, this is wrong, this is not now. It
could be the I mean, I'm just speculating that maybe
they didn't quite understand it. That's always a possibility. But
(16:21):
as far as you know, we understood that it was approved.
This is in the house hazard Yes, well it was
an honest house and she lived right at the top
before he entered into the hazard. Um typical house, living room,
working class. You know, tables were set aside, and you
know there was on it. There was Charlie Brown, um
(16:43):
any myself, I cannot remember other people, but I mean
there might have been two other people that were reading
with us. I'm not sure, but it was pretty much
just we were there to you know, present and hear
any kind of feedback and that kind of stuff. Um,
I mean, we have our community involved in gangs, and
(17:03):
I know for a fact, just my own experience being
in fulsome I mean I looked at you know, year
old kids, twenty four year o kids that are doing
life life, and they've got this look on their face
like what am I doing here? You know, It's just
I mean, I could have been taken it too far,
but you know, we I remember having a meeting with
(17:23):
the inmates and the people that were going to be
working with us. I think there was about two d
people that were considered trust that would work with us
in the scenes. And Eddie asked this question. It's it's
consistent throughout any time he's been at the institutions, even
adult institutions. How many you individuals have had older brothers
(17:46):
or sisters or fathers, mothers that have been served time. Okay,
how many of you have younger brothers or sisters? Then
how many would would have you would like your younger
brothers or sisters to follow into your footsteps. No one's
ever raised their head. Then help us make this film.
(18:07):
That was the plea we're doing something to try to
break that. You've already said you don't want your brothers
or sisters. But guess what, how come you're here, so
obviously you're following. The generation will be aware of it.
Now let's let's stop it, let's break it. And from
that point on we had I mean, because again, if
the inmates didn't want us there, we would have been gone.
(18:29):
Not that, not the prison officials. They don't run the prisons,
the inmates. So to be put out that scene, the
right scene in the prison, that was like a full
twelve hours. That was hot. I remember that day, and
those inmates stayed outside, you know, out of their cell.
So you're telling me that, you know, I mean, that
(18:49):
would have worn off pretty fast, you know, to be
out there and hot sin while some stupid film crews
out there making a film. I don't think there's ever
been a movie in the history of cinema that has
taken over prison like that, you know, where you've had
the cooperation of the inmates. So I mean, you know,
back to Trejo, I I mean, there are some things
(19:10):
you know, from his perspective, and I'm not challenging that
he might have said that, but I don't ever remember
that ever happening that because during that time there were
still threats and I always thought personally, I said, well,
they don't necessarily have to get at Eddie, but they
can get at him through getting people around him. And
they never communicated with you. I never had. I never
(19:34):
had a direct communication other than I spoke to people
who called the office. They would call, they would call
the office to try to speak to Eddie to try
to either get the script or try to find out why,
you know, what was he thinking, you know, things like that.
I never got into it detailed, but I know they called,
and I just turned every communication that I got, I
(19:56):
turned it over to Tony Kastas. Now i'mbeknownst to us
Tony Casas was working with the government at that time.
We've mentioned that Tony Cosas was the guy who allegedly
fed almost that story that would become the underlying inspiration
for the Santana rape and Juby scene. And now we're
seeing that the filmmakers were kind of duped by Casas,
who was working on an investigation with the FEDS into
(20:19):
the dealings of the Mexican mafia in prison. Are you
a snitch if you're already a cop? Or no? Coming up?
We hear how the production communicated with members of the
Mexican Mafia during the making of American Me. Welcome back
(20:43):
to More Than a Movie. American Me. I'm Alex Fometto.
We just heard from Danny Harrow that a California prisons
official was actually the source of the most contentious element
of the script, the rape scene associated with Mexican Mafia
founder Cheyenne Gena. And I think that's that led to
how we got involved with the government's thing, because Tony
(21:05):
was basically collecting whatever he could, any kind of evidence
that could be turned over to the FBI and the
Justice Department. They'll go after these guys. So unbeknownst to us,
we had, you know, people that were kind of working.
So so I want to touch a little bit on
these phone calls. What were what were they like and
(21:27):
what did you say? Hey, can I speak to Edward
James almost Well, he's busy right now, going to take
a message. Well, I'm so and so, and I'd like
to talk to him about the script and I mean
by then we already kind of like, you know, heads up,
what's going on. So I've just taken name number, you know,
pass it on and that was it. I don't think
(21:48):
Eddie ever responded to them, but I think all of
the information about the phone calls went to Tony Kasas,
and you said that they felt like they were trying
to get information on well sure, I mean, you know,
later on in his book he talks about wanting to
reach out to Eddie, you know, trying to find out,
you know, what was going on when he was thinking.
(22:08):
I mean that that you know, I can't see a percent,
but why would they call what? Maybe to threaten him
or I don't know, but it never got farted in
the phone calls, and so you never, you never. One
of the things we heard was that you were you
were credited will use that word with helping get the
script to the Mexican mafia in prison. Sounds like maybe, right, yeah,
(22:34):
this first time I heard of that. So no, I
had I one. I would not do anything that was
outside whatever instructions were given to me by Eddie, Nor
would I do anything like that. You know, somehow because
of the delicateness of this of the story and the
the overall shooting and just severity of the project. You
(22:58):
know that wouldn't I would not do that. I wouldn't
know who to reach out anyway. I don't sure. Well
they were reaching out to you, it sounds like, but
you also had contact, but Charlie Charlie Brown Modricuez right, right,
and that but that was not That was only when
we um met with him collectively. I never met with
him privately or anything like that. Can you tell me
what you remember about Charlie Brown. Like I said, one
(23:21):
of his nicknames was Mumbles. He was very you know,
he he's mumbling. So that was it. I mean again,
the contact that I had primarily was with Anna. Yeah,
so guys like Charlie Brown, I really had no business.
How does he even get involved in the film? And
it makes sense, right because Charlie professional, right, But I
(23:45):
guess Charlie Brown, from my understanding, Charlie Brown was the
designated um crime boss for them within uh, within Hazard.
So that's who made that connect. Who made that? Well,
we knew that. I guess we heard it from Anna
or something. We kind of verified who everybody was, and
(24:05):
I guess where I'm headed is like somebody's gotta go
excuse me, sir? Are you Mr? Brown? Yeah? Well, I
think again we left. We relied on Anna. It was
pretty honest with us, and and she, you know, as
far as I knew everything she told us, we believed
and again telling us that she got the okay. I
(24:27):
remember that we had gotten the okay, that the script
was fine, and I came from Anna. I want to
walk back to something you just said a second ago.
The government, whether it was the FBI, California DJ whomever,
it sounds like the FBI made you guys, unwitting, unknowing
collaborators and an investigation that you didn't know you were
a part of. Right, you're a lawyer, what do you
(24:47):
think about that? I think it was it was wrong.
I mean it calls in the question, you know, the
intent of Tony cosas you know, in the aftermath of
American Me, Almost was called to testify before a federal
grand jury. The original indictment and the racketeering case against
Lamy stated that the gang had tried to extort property
(25:11):
and money from Almost and wanted to kill him following
the movie. According to law enforcement sources, the extortion count
was dropped from the indictment when the actor indicated he
had nothing to say regarding the threats against him. He
has also refused to talk to us about the case.
Is this the Shryock case is a big reco case
with Raymond Shryock and all those big Mexican I see,
(25:34):
so he brought you in. This is the prospect way
after the commicides and everything. This is a couple of
years later. Yeah, okay, okay, So so this is the
big Rico charge. The first time rico has ever been
used against the violent criminal gang before that, they had
not been used before the Rico case. And you're telling
me that they brought you guys in three years later,
at least you they tried to. They they eventually added
(25:58):
an additional charge, right, and um uh. It was like
crazy man. It's just there was no need for that.
They had enough on these guys. They didn't have to
throw you know. I guess they felt a little cherry
on the top for good faith. But they the good
thing is they dropped it. They dropped that charge and
we never had to go to court. The only thing
(26:19):
I had done was I went in front of a
grand jury to give my testimony did ever, James almost
also gets a peinot by the grand jury. So one
more thing on Charlie Brown, and then I want to
move on. So one of the things we heard about him,
and possibly one of the reasons why some of this
went sideways, is because he was a drug addict. That
(26:42):
was alleged right when you were around him. Did he
give you any reason to believe that he was not,
you know, totally coherent. I had heard that he used heroin,
that he used drugs. I mean he didn't, he wasn't
used well, from what I can tell, he wasn't using
the day we were reading the script, right, and I didn't. Again,
(27:04):
I had no connection to him independent of what we
were there for. That was the only day you interacted
with him. I knew of him. I know of him.
I had seen him because we were shooting, so I
knew who he was. People sit there soon so and
I pointed out, but that was it. I didn't know it. Yeah,
obviously we don't. We don't want to spend the whole
time on this kind of stuff. But the last part
(27:25):
that is of significance is is what happened to where
James almost afterwards and the allegation as it goes. You know,
we know for a fact that he applied for a
concealed weapons permit. Um, there's certain things that are just known. Um,
we know for a fact because the internet remembers all
that he has. I think I have found one instance
(27:45):
of him even talking about American me since since the
year it came out. Um uh. And it was it
was an impromptu question at a film school because as
we know, he like spends countless hours. I don't know
how the guy has so much time in between his
career to like go to all these functions with these
young filmmakers, but he does, and bless him, and and
(28:06):
that was it. And so part of the reasoning was
that he was extorted essentially, that like the Mexican mafia
went to him. And we have heard as something you know,
there's like insane rumors about a million dollars, but what
the the figures that seemed to be more down to
earth were about a hundred to fifty thousan dollars that
he was asked to pay and that he did pay,
and that as a result, essentially all sort of harm
(28:30):
that would come his way, you know, went away. He
doesn't have to worry about that stuff anymore. Um, what's
your experience of the threats and aftermath that came to
him as a result of that. Give you Eddie's response
to something like that. Do you think if if anybody
gave money, if you give me a hundred fifty dollars
(28:50):
and I'll leave you alone. So somebody gives you, think
they're going to stop? That's that's the simple answer that
if you say yes to any of that, it won't end.
They can always go back, well, we need another hundred
fifty and we're gonna do you see what I'm saying.
So so that's the answer right there. It's preposterous. I mean,
I think that's a I think that's a very viable,
(29:13):
uh answer. However, I think from what we've learned from
our source within Liama, they see themselves as a business, right.
And so if I was running a business and my
business revolved around me telling you you better give me
fifty dollars, you're gonna die, and then I asked for
thy tholls, and then I asked for another and another another,
Probably people are going to stop paying me. But if
(29:34):
you give me through tho dollars, and then I don't
kill you. Well, then we've completed a business transaction. Turned
that around. Give me another fifty. I'm going to kill you.
I mean you always have that as you're operating motive operandi.
You know, I have your your life in my hands.
So how value is fifty? Is fifty or is it more?
(29:55):
I mean, think about it for you know. I mean
that's unfortunately way these guys operate. So so without being
specific to my answer, that's the answer that gives you
the the idea of whether there's truth in that or not.
Does that make sense? It does, regardless of whether he paid.
Would you be able to confirm that at least the
(30:16):
extortion threat was made. I couldn't. I'm sure you know,
I'm sure at some point they try and but from
my uh understanding it, I'd never heard of it. I
read about that. I read about that. I never had
any conversations with It's not something you yeah, yeah, it's yeah.
(30:39):
I mean I'm sure that people thought about it, um
you know, from that side, and thought about money, But
I don't think that ever I heard I read about it.
I never heard anything Eddie's telling me anything about that.
So I want to talk about Edward James almost and
the movie and how Edward James almost sort of comes
to be in the position that he's in. But I
(31:00):
want to talk about it in terms of your experience
of this guy, right, because you were living in Arizona. Right,
you're a public defender. Can you tell me the story
of how you came to meet Edward jams All? Well,
you know we, uh, I was working also in a
civil rights law center name tuc Sound Coalition for Justice,
and we were working on a lot of the same
unfortunate things that occurred today, you know, police brutality, mistreatment
(31:25):
of undocumented people, murder on the border of undocumented people.
So a lot of those things were going on. And
the night two, there was a movie that came out
on PBS called The Battle of Cortez, which is a classic.
I think it's one of any's best films. Um And
(31:46):
for those who may not not know about the story,
but it's a true story. In nineteen o one, this
Tejano was accused of stealing a horse and because of
one mistranslated word, yeah, what goyo female horse, male horse? Uh,
it created multiple murders. The Texas Rangers, who were notorious
for killing Indians and Mexicans at that time, Chase Cortez
(32:10):
for eleven days, all up and down throughout Texas to plant,
and the planes killing Mexicans as they went along. They
finally caught them, and uh, there's an incredible scene, uh
if you haven't seen the film where Eddie's comes to
realization that all of this because of a word. And
I thought that that film would be incredible for our community.
(32:34):
What we were doing. I had no idea how to
get it. I knew Eddie, I heard about it Ward
James almost. I just started picking up the phone, calling, hey,
you try this number about five, seven, ten, twenty leads.
So finally, yeah, I could take a message for eight. Okay, great, great.
So you know I didn't exactly and I didn't this
(32:58):
three I think, so, I you know, I didn't expect
Eddie to call me. I thought, you know, a big actor,
an assistant would call and he goes, hey, is Danny
is Edward James Alm was like, well hey Eddie, so
he goes, yeah, listen, we'd love to bring you out
to uh Tucson. We'd love to show the film. H
And at that time, Eddie was in the process of
(33:20):
trying to convince Hollywood that a film that aired on
television could be redistributed theatrically and you can make money
off of it. The feeling was no way, when something's
on TV, that's the kiss of death and forget about it.
So Eddie was committed to say no, this film has
a has a life of its own and we could
(33:40):
get it distributed ahead of his time, ahead of his time,
so so, you know, he was I said, hey, I'd
love to bring you out show the film. Great. You know,
he wasn't making a lot of money at the time.
You know, he wasn't before Miami Weis and I think
he was right after zoot Suit and I think he'd
done wolf In, you know, so he was getting to grow,
(34:01):
but he wasn't where he was. So he said, hey,
do you think you can cover some expenses? I said, yeah, well,
you know, thinking we could try to you raise money
for you You'll raise money for our tuc Sound Cooldership
for Justice. Okay, so sure enough, if we pick a date.
He comes out and he's carrying these cans of film
and I had no idea, you know, Okay, it's the
film and unbeknownst to me, those thirty five millimeter prints.
(34:26):
You have to use two gigantic projectors, right, project doors
And I'll get back to that word. So you know,
no problem, don't even discuss it. I think he thinks
I know what I'm doing, which I didn't. So we
took him. He said, look, take me to classes. Take me.
We took him to some Indian reservations out there the
Pima tribe. Filled his day of talking and meeting with kids. Okay.
(34:49):
So um, the night of the screen, he goes, okay,
you're ready. You got to project doors? Ready? And I
said project one projector? He said, no, man, you need
to project this. So this is just about he was
ready to go on stage, you know, prior to the
to the film, so we had it was in Tucson
High School. They were about fift dred people jammed and
(35:11):
so I saw Eddie, it's gonna take us two hours
to get up to Phoenix and go to this location
and get the project doors bring them back. Okay. So
he you know, I got my crew go up there
to drive and I hung out and I have never
before seen anyone hold an audience for two hours where
(35:33):
he sang, danced, He did scenes from El Pachuco talked
about life. It was amazing. He held, he held, he
held the audience and I guys got back. Then we
got a projectionist and knew they were doing They saw
the film. I'm guessing he was very gracious about it.
Well he was, he was. I mean, I think he
he realized he was dealing with amateurs at the time.
(35:55):
Later on, as we went on, NAIMI was like, pretty strict,
but we gotta do and I understand as a filmmaker
you want your work presented in the best possible line. Right. Well,
what happened was I quit. I resigned because so anyway,
we had this big dance for him. We raised I
think a couple of thousand for him, made a couple
of thousand for us. It was like, hey, great. So
(36:17):
he says, hey, listen, man, he says, at the end
of the night, I'm taking him back to this hotel.
He said, would you consider coming back and working with me?
You know, I love the work we were doing, but
I thought, wow, if we could make the kind of
change that I would like to do with the imagery
of ourselves, that could be worth it. So, uh so
I quit. Coming up, we'll hear more from Danny horror
(36:41):
about Edward James almost the actor and Edward James almost
the activist. But first, my apologies to Kyle one seven
one seven one seven one seven one seven one welcome back.
This is more than a movie. I'm Alex Fumetto. We're
talking to Danny Harrow, who helped take one of almost
his earliest movies on a barnstorming tour across the country.
(37:04):
He is somebody that I remember was always willing to
give time wise. I mean, I remember there were several
actors that I met because of Eddie Row. Julia was
one of them, you know, and his his focus, his focus,
and our little quick story about all Julia we I
think he was doing nine on Broadway at that time,
(37:24):
and um so we Eddie myself had dinner with him
and his new wife, who was Jewish. He wasn't Puerto Rican,
I mean not that she couldn't be Puerto Rican Jewish,
but I mean she was non Latina and so New
York you kind of just blend in. Nobody is gawking.
But the man was so loud, and he had just
(37:44):
come off the stage and he was he was just
he was just like whisper Eddie. You know that, And
it's like I was just thinking, is anybody you know?
Because everybody's chattering? But I just laughing. He grew up
in Miami, Okay, he knows he couldn't hell that were
so loud. He couldn't help it, I guess because he
was right off the stage. So maybe he's still hyped.
(38:07):
But he was just very loud. It's just how That's
what I remember about Ogilia is very loud, very friendly,
very loving, and he and Eddie drew very close. Well,
it's but it's what's interesting, is okay. So Edward James
almost one of the themes in this podcast is very
James almost the artist and Edward James almost the activist, right,
and that those two things interweave and inform each other. Um,
(38:28):
And so you seem to be brought on I mean, yes,
definitely the work about of Gregorio correct Cortez. But I
have to imagine a lot of your kind of act
more activist oriented work. But then you just said that
you're an actor, So I would like to know how
you went from a public defender to whittle. And when
I grow up, I'm going to be something else too.
(38:49):
I keep changing. But but no, I I you know
it was because I'll never forget um. I was, let's
see seventy seven, I graduate from law school and seventy
and I saw zoot Suit, zoot suited Lert. It's incredible. Man.
I wonder if Louis Valdez understands, like we've already talked
to this audience is exhausted with me talking about fucking
zoot suit. I get it, But do you see what
(39:10):
I mean? I keep going back to this fucking play
because it's like both the puppets, uh sal Lopez like
obviously Edward James almost now we're here sitting talking to
Danie Harror and he's like, well, I saw this play.
It was called Zusu. It's like, it's fucking This play
changed so many lives, a lot of impact, a lot
of impact. And I think I remember Andy Garcia talking about,
(39:32):
of course, I can tell you that originally meeting Eddie
and being involved with a bellot gonna go to Cortez,
he had pretty much the same goals, you know, and
that was to tell this incredible story, tell our history,
begin to show Hollywood that hey, we we matter, we
have the numbers. I think that's always been there. Um,
(39:54):
did America me sharpen his focus? Um? Could be. I
never talked him about that. I pretty much think that
it's just a continuation of Eddios just who he is. Yes,
that somehow he would create some some path to be
able to achieve what did he really tell Michael Man
No five times? I believe that, Yes, I've heard that story. Um,
(40:16):
you know, and he always says that you say no
and they keep coming back and giving you one for him. Yeah,
but I guess they wanted Eddie and uh, he fought
to try to get a contract that if he was
ready to do projects, that he would be given so
he could do more bad of But at that time
(40:40):
it would have been the project on his mind when
he's going Latino projects, it's the one you worked on. Yeah, yeah,
And and so I think he saw that where he
was headed with that. Didn't necessarily want to get bug
bogged down with television a series, but you know, probably
thought that he could create a character that would be
unique and different, and obviously it was. He got an
(41:02):
Emmy for that for Lieutenant Castile. I do believe his
will is such that he's pretty insistent on what he wants,
and people generally, I've seen people been to his will
for the most part, I've also seen po will be
upset about it. I mean, he's had some, uh with
other known directors problems, but for the most part, it's
(41:24):
almost like, how can you say no to his mission?
You know, in terms of what he wants to do.
If you're a director or running a project that has
you know, and you see it has some kind of moral, political,
social relevance in an industry that's lacking, most people are
gonna say, you know, I respect what you're doing and
(41:45):
I want to work with you because of your artistry,
your skill set, but I also want to accommodate your
schedule he said. He said he made more. Yeah, that's
that's true. Yeah, well, I mean I don't have a
lot more. I want to know if you had any
follow ups that I forgot about, just a couple. In
an ideal world, you'd be sitting here at some point.
(42:07):
We would have got you at some point, and a
different point we would have every James almost sitting here.
Obviously he's not going to talk about this this movie.
The only thing I want to know on that score
is one of the things we've been talking about this podcast,
is that this movie was intended to prevent violence. Uh
in a way. You know, some of the events cause
some violence, and I don't know how he falls on that.
Does he do you think? And maybe you can't say,
(42:28):
but for me, I wonder does he look at this
experience and say I should never have fucking done that,
or does he look at it and say it was
misinterpreted and it didn't go away I wanted to go.
Or does he say that's kind of how it went
and that's that's that's history and that's life. I would
say that he very much loved Anna, was very close
to Anna, and if if we had the ability to
see what was to take him, but it was going
(42:49):
to take place, I don't think, you know, he would
have continued. I don't think in our wildest dreams, even
though we were indirectly aware of the Dane jurors or
directly where the dangerous you know, we thought that this
would possibly happen. So it was unexpected. Um, I do know.
I can speak to the intent, and it was really
(43:12):
that the reason this film was made was to try
to reach our young people. Um. You know, I think
that at the core. That was what he was trying
to do. And as you try, if you're if your
intentions are pure, and the results are negative, I guess
that's like wow, you know, it's shocking. But his intent
(43:34):
was to do that. I well, to that point, I
can say this, I know for a fact, being in
the airport together or by myself, I can speak to
people coming up and and saying, you know, and I'm
glad you made that film because I took my son
and my daughter, my daughter who were very curious about gangs,
(43:55):
and when they saw that film, they might have been
on the fence and they fell off the so called wantabes.
You know. Now, uh, this is just my opinion. For
those people that were deep into it already, it probably
had the effect of like I can't wait to be
like Santana, you know, but those people already in it.
But I think for the people that the generations are,
(44:16):
the young people that thought about, hey, this is kind
of interesting, it's cool, put the brakes on and take
a look at what it's really like, what gain life
is really like. And most people that have been in it,
to a person said this film is important to do
because I we want our young people to realize, if
you're going to get involved in this, then this is
(44:38):
these are these comments were fermment people. If if you're
going to join us, then we want you to really
know what this is about so you have no excuse.
And then I guess my last question is you're you
say I and I and I agree with you, like
you know, you make a movie. The movie itself is
not going to stop whatever cause it is. Um do
(45:02):
you think Edward James almost would agree, well, yes and no.
The images that how powerful the imagery that comes out
of this community, out of Hollywood, of television films, how
important that is that it shapes our minds. So to
say that if we argue, because a lot of arguments
(45:22):
come about that all they see us in Hollywood gang
bangers and you know, and there are elements to that,
and there's there are some true stories within that, but
is that all we are? No? Absolutely, and the issue
the argument is we need to tell more of the
all the other sides to our community. But I think
Eddie would and I agree, I would say this, but
(45:44):
he would think this was an important film to make.
It definitely was the imagery that we see of ourselves
carries to this day. What we see, how they see,
how they see us are Do they just see us
as gang members? People's society? You continue that that that image,
the negative image. No. I mean he's done standing delivery,
He's done other things. That was one aspect that he
(46:07):
was interested in because he saw the high number of
our of our kids in the communities getting into game.
My dude was a space admiral, you know what I mean,
let's not that you know the first he says, the
first alien in space, like you know, and he said
(46:30):
it said it was funny. Yeah. On our second to
last episode of the season, we finally sit down with
someone who had direct knowledge of this whole situation from
the inside, a high ranking former member of the Mexican mafia,
the prison gang. The movie American Me was based on
Edward James almost scared to death, right, I get that.
(46:51):
You know, he put it for a license for a
concealed weapon. He left the country for a while and
you really didn't have to. He scared himself. He's seen
his own demons, you know, he created his own team
is you know, he was seeing ghosts in every corner.
That's on the next episode of More Than a Movie.
American Me More than a Movie. American Me is a
production of Exile Content Studios in partnership with I Hearts
(47:14):
podcast Network and Trojan Horse Media. The show is produced
by me Alex Fumeto at Angry Yuka on the internets,
and our senior producer is Nigel Dora. Our executive producers
are Rose Red, Nando Vila and Korean Taps. Production assistance
from Sabine Jansen. Mixing and sound designed by Guado Albornos.
Our executive producers at I Heart are Gisel Bances and
(47:34):
Arlene Santana. For more podcasts, listen to the I Heart
Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your
favorite shows.
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