November 17, 2022 • 23 mins
A former member of the Mexican Mafia who was in the criminal syndicate at the time of the movie, explains how it all went down.
A former member of the Mexican Mafia explains the process of extorting Edward James Olmos and the fallout on the street after the release of the movie, including the reasons for the killings of people who participated. He explains how the gang works, to what they took offense, and why people died.
More Than a Movie: American Me is a podcast that digs into the history and mystery of American Me, a film directed by and starring Edward James Olmos that had a huge impact on Latino cinema and culture. In every episode, our host, Alex Fumero will be diving into the controversy behind the movie.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
The Mafia didn't oppose the movie, that's the whole thing.
I mean, they glorified it and and wallowed in the attention.
The problem with American Meal was that they showed a
martyr of the organization, Cheyenneka, being sodomized. That was the
problem with the movie. That didn't happen to Cheyenne. They
took artistic liberty, and that's why everybody took offenses at that.
(00:25):
Welcome to more than a movie. American Mean a podcast
that digs into the history and mystery of American Me,
a film directed by and starring Edward James almost that
had a huge impact on Latino cinema and culture. I'm
your host, Alex Fumeto, and I'll be diving into the
behind the scenes controversy every episode. I'm gonna try to
peel back a layer of the story by trying to
(00:46):
go deeper into the intentions and motives behind the film
and the backlash. This week, we have something a little
different for you. We've spent a lot of time talking
to people, Hollywood types who made this movie. They done
a real prison gang called the Mexican Mafia. But this
week we'll talk to somebody who knows the real m
a inside enow. That's because he was a former member
(01:11):
and he has first hand knowledge of the events surrounding
American me including the alleged extortion of Edward James almost
and the murders of at least three people connected to
the film. The former Mexican Mafia member asked me not
to use his name to protect his identity. We've had
an actor rerecord his responses. He's a former shock caller
(01:34):
and spent more than two decades in prison. For the
purposes of this interview, we'll just call him O G.
O G was there for all of it. He called
the movie's production from prison as an inmate representing the gang.
He knew the people who were killed, and he says
he knows why those murders were ordered. We're removing some
(01:54):
of the details from the conversation that could identify him,
but we're not altering his quotes in any way. A
let's get into it, and let's start at the beginning
of the violence that plague this movie's release. The thing
everyone skirts around, why did the Mexican Mafia take such
an exception to the sexual violence in this movie? Are
you trying to be politically correct with the mafia. Get Rue, dude, No, no,
(02:16):
I'm not at all. I'm not at all pleased. But
what I'm trying to understand is what part is the
worst part? Like is it that you got dominated by
another person? Or is it that you got dominated by
another man? No, you know, I think that's not even
it right, because there's there's multiple members that have been
sexually abused in their lives, right, They've all had all
(02:39):
kinds of you know, averse childhood experiences, and a sexual
abuse is part of that. I don't think that's it, right.
I think it's the terms of public displays or the
public display of emasculation of the organization. Not only that
they showed other parts the Black Rula family had taken
other people on the streets and killed them, and that
that just never happened. You know. It was just some
(03:01):
certain parts in the movie that we're not real, and
they took offense to those parts. What did you think
of the movie? I mean, I liked it, but the
Mexican mafia I was from wasn't like that, like wearing
their khakis up to their chests and vato. I mean
they're killers, you know, I mean through and through killers.
They killed people, and it's organized crime. I mean, it
(03:22):
was a prison gang when I joined, and it just
became an organized crime group as it went through its metamorphosis,
right with horizontal integration, vertical leadership, all these things, right,
profit sharing and franchising. I mean, here's a group of
guys that are drop offs from high school. Uh, you know,
some of them are illiterate, and they're utilizing fortune practices
(03:43):
right without even realizing it, right, I mean, and it
took just a few guys to make it happen. So,
I mean I thought the movie was okay. I just
thought it was a little you know, outdated. You know,
it didn't apply to the contemporary mafia that I was from.
We all start it from there, and we all hail
from gang areas. But I mean, once you graduate to that,
(04:04):
it's just, you know, it's different. I mean, some of
those guys are stuck in their time warps. There's some
guys up there that still speak, but the majority of mobsters,
I know, they're not like that. Let's be clear about something.
Edward James almost made a movie about the Mexican mafia
from the nineteen sixties and seventies, he was not depicting
(04:26):
the gang as it was in the year the movie
was released. I know from off the record conversations with
some of the filmmakers that the original script had been
kicking around for over a decade. As bad as the
Emma and the movie seemed the Mexican mafia that almost
piste off in the one that O. G was a
part of was a different animal altogether, and almost found
(04:48):
that out the hard way. One of the reasons we
know this is the memoir by Danny Trejo, which we've
mentioned before on the podcast. Treho dedicates a whole chapter
in his book and a media hard to promote it,
where he makes several big allegations about the Mexican mafia's
reaction to the movie. But how much of that is
actually true? That's something we've wondered since the beginning, and
(05:10):
we finally had a chance to ask somebody who was
actually there. So, did a Mexican mafia leader named Joe
Pegleg Morgan really direct the extortion of Edward James Almost
did the gang manage to obtain the script in prison?
Like trey Ho says, so, someone who started talking about
this pretty recently in the last couple of years was
(05:31):
Danny Treyho He made some really specific allegations in his
book and on some other podcasts, not on this one
because for whatever reason he won't talk to us. Um,
but especially that almost should have known that people were
upset with his idea of doing this. It sounds like
you don't put a whole hell of a lot of
(05:52):
credibility into what Danny Trejo is saying. Yeah, I mean, look,
was he in associated at one time? Sure he was
an associated it. He was an associate in the organization.
And does he keep in touch with some homeboys, sure,
you know, maybe even keeps in touch with the Aaron
older brother or Carnale you know, undercover through whatever means
they communicate. But those guys are long time has beens
(06:14):
you know there has beens, or you know they're Christians,
or they're not righteous active mobsters anymore. So for him
to be in the know on this, it's like, nah,
you know, Joe Morgan did not call him. Um. Another
point that was made to me is if he really
had a problem with this movie, that they could have
(06:36):
made life really difficult for these guys, right like filming
inside a fulsome but it doesn't seem like they did. Like,
if they didn't really want this made, they could have
just told the people, look, it's not gonna happen. Yeah, yeah,
we'll see. The Mafia didn't oppose the movie, that's the
whole thing. I mean, they glorified it and and wallowed
(06:58):
in the attention. The problem with American Meal was that
they showed a martyr of the organization, Hyenne, then being sodomized.
That was the problem with the movie. That was the
problem with the movie because that didn't happen to Cheyenne.
They took artistic liberty, and that's what everybody took offense at,
and that's the whole problem. Right, Like everything else, it's
(07:19):
blood and blood out, except it also has rape. Yeah yeah,
but that's a reality of prison, right, that didn't happen
to Cheyenne. That didn't happen too often. But they took
artistic liberty. That's what everybody took offense to. We had
the actual scripts that we sent around, so everybody got
a sense of what it was. You know, somebody in
the production company, in the production aspect of it released
(07:41):
the script to somebody and so we got it. How
did how did you get it. Uh, well, I wrote
a production guy and then somebody else just sent me
a script. I forgot who it was, but it was
a connected guy though. He had the script and he
sent it to me. Last week we spoke to Danny Harrow,
almost his assistant at the time, who said he did
(08:02):
field calls from Lamy, so communication between the gang and
production was happening from early on. Danny insists this wasn't
him who sent the scripts though, But what is clear
is that the Mexican Mafia was aware of the movie
from the very start of production. So I asked og
if they would have been upset if almost had actually
obtained their permission. Yeah, you know, I don't think they
(08:25):
would have been upset at all. I think they glorified
and they wallowed in the attention. American me actually put
the Mexican Mafia on the national, international stage. And the
one thing about the Mexican mafia is it loves to
glorify its own sense of self importance, right. I mean,
you look at it, if you look at the members,
they're narcissistic, ego centric, every form of personality disorder there is,
(08:46):
you know, and that's why they achieved Mobsters right. You
know this movie it gave him national validity as an
organized crime group. Was Joe Morgan aware that this production
was happening. Trejo says he got a call at somebody's
house from Joe telling him that this movie is no good. No,
Joe Morgan didn't have the ability to call Danny Trejo.
You know, at that time the movie was being made.
(09:08):
Joe Morgan was taken from fulsome state prison. I was there,
you know he was taking It was a place in
Palm Hall Deep say, he didn't have access to telephones there.
He was in the shoe and they didn't have telephones
except for you know, death in the family. So to
believe that they didn't have you know, cell phones back then,
I mean they had those big, you know, brick phones.
But he was going to be afforded a phone call
(09:30):
to be able to call Danny Trejo and say, hey man,
this movie is no good. Other information we have tells
us Morgan was being held at Pelican Bay, a new
super max prison mental hold especially dangerous inmates or those
associated with organized crime, both check marks for Morgan, and
that he was in the Shoe there as well. Whether
China or Pelican Bay O G is confident that Trejo
Morgan phone call couldn't have happened. But what about an
(09:53):
almost Morgan meeting? Our one story that Leo Duarte brought
in Edward almost to see Joe Morgan at Cyper See.
You know that's in Geno State Prison where he was
being housed in isolation. You know, he wanted to tell
him about the movie, but Morgan ran him out, So
get the funk out of here? Was that before the
movie was released or after? That? Was before it was released?
He wanted to ask what the rumor was. He wanted
(10:15):
to ask permission with this guy Leo Duarte, who fancies
himself a gang expert, but Joe Morgan ran him off.
But then O G said he had also heard the
meeting never happened, that it was just a rumor. Leo
Duarte was definitely a former prison official and served as
a gang expert in court, so it's at least plausible
the meeting happened. Either way, it seems clear to us
(10:37):
by now that Joe Morgan never gave almost his blessing
coming up. O G tells us about the Joe Peglick
Morgan that he knew and the details of the murders
connected to the movie. Welcome back to More Than a Movie,
(10:58):
American Me and Alex foum Ato. I'm talking to a
former member of the Mexican Mafia who was in prison
and running a crew while the movie was in production.
And note to listeners when he says the SHOE, that's
an acronym for safe housing unit, one of the places
they put gang leaders. The day after the Los Angeles
Police Department declared war on the Mexican Mafia, this man
put up the cash to bail out of suspected bank Robert,
(11:20):
who was believed to be a member of the Mexican Mafia.
This is Joe Morgan. Law enforcement officials saying he's the
honorary godfather of the Mexican Mafia. He denies that, like
some other members, Morgan is not a Chicano. He recently
pleaded guilty to federal weapons of violations and still faces
narcotics charges. He has already spent much of his life
behind bars. In our episode on Joe Morgan, we heard
(11:41):
from Milton Grimes, his former attorney, about Morgan's life and
eventual death in prison from an illness. He's referred to
as a leader or shot caller within the organization in
countless articles and videos online. But the former Mexican Mafia
member we talked to said Morgan was never that high
up in the gang. Joe Morgan wasn't this godfather everybody
(12:02):
says he is. You know, he was just a regular carnale,
a regular member like everybody else. You know. Yeah, he
had respect in the organization. He was well liked by
some people. You know, I didn't like him at all
because I mean, you know, I'm not racist at all,
but he's this white guy running the Mexican mafia, right
or presumably in the public eye, you know, being the
figurehead of the Mexican Mafia. Right, he had that like
(12:22):
Tom Hagen kind of reputation. Yeah, so, you know, he
wasn't this monolithic figure in the organization. He was well liked,
you know, a historic figure in the organization, but he
was still just a carnale. So he couldn't tell anybody
what to do. He wasn't gonna get paid because he
was this, you know, godfather. It just didn't work like that.
I guess the reason why I thought he would get
paid is because one of the characters in the film
(12:45):
is based on him, right like j D. So I
thought because of that and because he filed the defamation
suit later which didn't work out, that he would have
gotten paid. No, No, I mean, what you do in
your own hustle is your own hustle. I me like, Look,
mafia members can hustle on anything they want to hustle on, right,
and no one member can impose their will or exact
(13:07):
moneys from another member unless we're partners, you know, for
partners in the shared territory, we're sure business endeavor than sure.
But if I go and extlore you know, let's say
Kevin Spacey and he had done a movie based on
somebody's life, somebody can't come to me and say I
need part of the money, because not that that'd be
cause to get that guy killed for trying to extort me. So,
(13:27):
according to our source, the gang was able to get
the script in prison or a version of the script.
Among the sexual violence that angered the gang was the
rape of the gang's leader Cheyne in Juvie in the
nineteen fifties. Danny Harrow, almost as longtime collaborator, says that
detail came from a deputy director of corrections for the
(13:48):
whole state of California prison system. A guy named Tony
Casas who served as a technical advisor on American Me
and died in two thousand and six. Gos has told
almost that the real life was raped in Juvenile Hall,
so almost put it in the movie. What we don't
know is whether the Juvenile Hall scene was in the
script that the Mexican Mafia saw. It wouldn't matter. Two
(14:11):
months after the movie's release, people started dying. Then someone
demanded money from Edward James, almost allegedly. Some say there
was a bounty on his head. Whether or not there
was a green light a hit on Edward James almost
has been the sixty dollar question for this podcast. Or
was it or a hundred thousand or a million? According
(14:32):
to O. G here are the facts. Was there ever
a bounty on Edward James almost as far as you know, No, No,
there was not a bounty. The Mexican Mafia never paid
for a hit, and it doesn't pay for hits. You
do a hit, it's for the honor and the glory
and the privilege for killing for the organization. So I
mean he was a target, but not really a viable target.
(14:56):
I mean, would they have killed him. If you walk
into gang territory and there were shooters there, sure they
would have killed him. But I think he was more
valuable being the target of extortion. So I mean, you
have to look at it through the prism of the mob.
Dead guys don't pay, all right, Their guys don't pay money,
and he was a valuable asset to the organization for
the period that they used them. Do you know what
(15:16):
he paid them? Yeah? Wow, Okay, that's that's actually less
than what we heard. But I guess fifty thirty years
ago is a different story. So it wasn't a bounty
in the sense that they'll pay for anyone who kills him.
But what it would have happened if Almost hadn't paid,
Oh yeah, I mean, if you wouldn't have paid, it
(15:38):
would have got whacked. Danny Harrow brought up this idea
that Almost couldn't have paid because had he paid, they
would have just kept extorting him forever. Pay fifty and
they'll ask you for another fifty thou But here's O
G saying that that's not how the business works. You
take the money because that way people will pay and
trust that you'll go away. It's satisfaction guaranteed in a
(16:02):
funked up kind of way. Do you know who he
paid it to or how that went down? Yeah, Alexaire
got the bulk of it. Smiling Guillardo and I think
Chuco Castro as well. Alex Pewee are faced federal indictment
in the nineteen nineties and has an Avenue's click called
the Peewee Gangsters named after him. David Smilon Gallardo was
(16:24):
a member of the Hazard Gang as in Lives and
Hazard in Ramona Gardens and it's currently serving a life
sentence for multiple murders and other charges. Chuco Castro turned
witness to the prosecution in the federal case against the
Mexican Mafia. We are unable to determine his whereabouts today.
And then when the movie came out and people started
getting killed, where did those orders come from from? From prison? No? No,
(16:48):
this is all coming from guys on the street. You know.
They're effectuating the heats. Like they hit on Anna Lizarraga,
that came from us, my long Guyardo Smilon Guiarlo directed,
they hit on Charlie Brown, Mariquez a Rocky Luna, you know,
and Alex Agiri actually did they hit a Rocky Luna
and then Anna Liizargo was Jose Gonzalez. He took the
fall for that. Jose Gonzalez got convicted. But do you
(17:09):
think he was the actual shooter? Nah, I heread he
took the hip for his brother. I mean they caught
him running away. Then his brother got killed by another
Mexican mafia member. So why why did the street react
to this movie more than people in prisons? Well, you know,
a lot of the stuff, a lot of it was
filmed in hazard, So smile long Guiardo. He was headstrong
(17:30):
and it was an opportunistic for him to eliminate people.
They used to call Rocky Luna the godfather of the projects, right,
so it was opportunistic for a Guyardo to utilize, you know,
what was happening in the political world of mafia to
get them whacked. You know, Charlie Brown Mariquez. We had
conspired to kill him. You know, I had volunteered to
kill that guy years before. He wasn't even worth killing though, right,
(17:50):
he was living in an abandoned house, he was still
in car batteries to get his heroin fixed. I mean
when I offered to do it, they told me Nah,
the guy's not even worth killing. At some point we'll
kill them, but just not right now. So Smilon guard though,
saw this opportunity in this movie because Ia Lzarrego was
known as a rat through and through the hood, you know,
because she went through youth gang services and she spoke
to cops all the time, so she had smut on her.
(18:12):
Charlie Brown Mariquez had smut on him for being a bump.
He was degrading the organization by living in cars and
being a crackhead, and Mamuel Luna became a crackhead, so
you know, they were diminishing the statue of the organization.
So Smilon uses this opportunity to gain a foothold and hazard. Right.
And and how many people do you think actually died
because of this movie, because again Danny Trejo says, it
(18:34):
was about eight to ten people. No, no, no, I
know three people that got killed for it. You know,
there may have been a stablisher too, but there's only
three people that got killed behind it. So according to
O G, this wasn't some grand plan hatched in prison,
directed at the highest levels of the Mexican mafia. It
was a neighborhood beef territorially focused in hazard, and the
(18:56):
victims seemed marked for death from before anyone in the
area and knew the movie existed. So does this completely
absolve Edward James Almost? Coming up we hear whether O G.
A former member of the Mexican Mafia, holds Edward James
almost responsible for the murders that followed the movie's release.
(19:22):
Welcome back. This is more than a movie. I'm Alex Fumeto.
Today we're talking to a former member of the Mexican
Mafia and he's about to tell us whether he believes
the people related to the movie are still in any
danger of repercussions from the gang. One of the things
that we've run into, which I think you might find
a little funny, I would say fifty of the people
that I've gone to, especially the higher up they are
(19:45):
on the total poll for this film, they're convinced that
if they talk to us that it could either get
them killed or get Edward James almost killed. What are
your thoughts on that and really this whole mystery around
the production for the last thirty years. You know, the
Mob doesn't go after those targets. They go after low
hanging fruit. You know, their opportunistic killers, right, they don't
(20:07):
go kill productive members of the community. You know, Edward
James almost scared to death, right, I get that. You
know he put in for a license for a concealed weapon.
He left the country for a while and you really
didn't have to. He scared himself. He's seen his own demons.
You know, he created his own demons. You know, you
were seeing ghosts in every corner. And he had a
meeting with someone connected at a moist coos place downtown
(20:28):
or in East LA and it scared the ship out
of him. Them saying they're going to kill you, that
there's a bounty on your head. That you know, the
mafia had never ever paid anybody to kill anybody. They
just don't do that. From your perspective, how much responsibility
does Edward James almost bear for the things that happened
to those people. I think he bears no responsibility. Man.
(20:50):
You know, he's an artist doing what he thinks is right.
You were just trying to send a message to you
to persuade them. And I'm a complete supporter of that guy. Man,
I don't think he bears responsibility. Should he have an
exercise a bit more discretion, certainly, But I mean, we
could throw rocks all day long. In hindsight, you know,
everybody has twenty vision. But at the time it seemed
(21:10):
like a good idea, and it wasn't even that offensive
to me because that stuff happens all the time in prison.
But you know, that's what the mafia used to explore
Edward almost. I really don't think they were that upset. Like,
like I said, you know, this movie was used as
a vehicle to eliminate the people they want to eliminate already.
So then could you see a movie being made with
none of the sexual assault stuff in it that tells
(21:30):
the same story that doesn't offend the Mexican mafia versus
what he ended up producing. You know, I think it
offended some people. It really it offended some people. But
I think those people are gonna get killed no matter what.
They were gonna be killed no matter what, because we
discussed killing Charlie Brown years before and Eliza, you know,
(21:51):
it was tossed up years before, and Rocky Luna had
become a cracket and he was dishonoring the organization, So
they were all gonna be killed no matter what. And
it's my long guy out of though used that as
a vehicle, you know, the offensive part. Sure, you know,
they pissed some people out and it was a money
making opportunity to extort there where James almost so, you know,
would it have got people killed? Yeah, well maybe, But
(22:11):
I don't think he bears all the responsibility for these deaths.
I think it's just the organization being kind of ballistic
like it is. Those guys were gonna die no matter what,
and as unfortunate and as jaded and as brutal as
it sounds, this is the organization. This is how it functions,
it kills its own. On our next episode of More
(22:33):
Than a Movie American Made in our last episode of
the season, one clue and to Edward James, almost a
psyche might lie in a story that we heard about
the two civil rights uprising in Los Angeles, sometimes better
known as the La Riots. It was amazing, It was amazing.
Um you know, I remember coming we started, I think
(22:54):
any myself and maybe three other people, and I specifically
remember we came to an intersection where they were rioters
going on and they were the National Garden and police,
and they actually stopped for us because they were about
to go at it, they stopped for us more than
(23:14):
a movie. American Me is a production of Exile Content
Studios in partnership with I Hearts, Michael Duda podcast Network,
and Trojan Horse Media. This show is produced by me
Alex Formeto at Angry Yuka on the Internets, and our
senior producer is Nigel Tour, Rose Reed, Nando Vila and
Korean Taps are executive producers. Are Supervising producer is Sabine Jansen.
Mixing and sound designed by Eduardo Albordinos are executive producers.
(23:37):
At I Heart are justl Bansas and ar Lean Santana.
For more podcasts, listen to the I Heart Radio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows,
The Mafia didn't oppose the movie, that's the whole thing.
I mean, they glorified it and and wallowed in the attention.
The problem with American Meal was that they showed a
martyr of the organization, Cheyenneka, being sodomized. That was the
problem with the movie. That didn't happen to Cheyenne. They
took artistic liberty, and that's why everybody took offenses at that.
(00:25):
Welcome to more than a movie. American Mean a podcast
that digs into the history and mystery of American Me,
a film directed by and starring Edward James almost that
had a huge impact on Latino cinema and culture. I'm
your host, Alex Fumeto, and I'll be diving into the
behind the scenes controversy every episode. I'm gonna try to
peel back a layer of the story by trying to
(00:46):
go deeper into the intentions and motives behind the film
and the backlash. This week, we have something a little
different for you. We've spent a lot of time talking
to people, Hollywood types who made this movie. They done
a real prison gang called the Mexican Mafia. But this
week we'll talk to somebody who knows the real m
a inside enow. That's because he was a former member
(01:11):
and he has first hand knowledge of the events surrounding
American me including the alleged extortion of Edward James almost
and the murders of at least three people connected to
the film. The former Mexican Mafia member asked me not
to use his name to protect his identity. We've had
an actor rerecord his responses. He's a former shock caller
(01:34):
and spent more than two decades in prison. For the
purposes of this interview, we'll just call him O G.
O G was there for all of it. He called
the movie's production from prison as an inmate representing the gang.
He knew the people who were killed, and he says
he knows why those murders were ordered. We're removing some
(01:54):
of the details from the conversation that could identify him,
but we're not altering his quotes in any way. A
let's get into it, and let's start at the beginning
of the violence that plague this movie's release. The thing
everyone skirts around, why did the Mexican Mafia take such
an exception to the sexual violence in this movie? Are
you trying to be politically correct with the mafia. Get Rue, dude, No, no,
(02:16):
I'm not at all. I'm not at all pleased. But
what I'm trying to understand is what part is the
worst part? Like is it that you got dominated by
another person? Or is it that you got dominated by
another man? No, you know, I think that's not even
it right, because there's there's multiple members that have been
sexually abused in their lives, right, They've all had all
(02:39):
kinds of you know, averse childhood experiences, and a sexual
abuse is part of that. I don't think that's it, right.
I think it's the terms of public displays or the
public display of emasculation of the organization. Not only that
they showed other parts the Black Rula family had taken
other people on the streets and killed them, and that
that just never happened. You know. It was just some
(03:01):
certain parts in the movie that we're not real, and
they took offense to those parts. What did you think
of the movie? I mean, I liked it, but the
Mexican mafia I was from wasn't like that, like wearing
their khakis up to their chests and vato. I mean
they're killers, you know, I mean through and through killers.
They killed people, and it's organized crime. I mean, it
(03:22):
was a prison gang when I joined, and it just
became an organized crime group as it went through its metamorphosis,
right with horizontal integration, vertical leadership, all these things, right,
profit sharing and franchising. I mean, here's a group of
guys that are drop offs from high school. Uh, you know,
some of them are illiterate, and they're utilizing fortune practices
(03:43):
right without even realizing it, right, I mean, and it
took just a few guys to make it happen. So,
I mean I thought the movie was okay. I just
thought it was a little you know, outdated. You know,
it didn't apply to the contemporary mafia that I was from.
We all start it from there, and we all hail
from gang areas. But I mean, once you graduate to that,
(04:04):
it's just, you know, it's different. I mean, some of
those guys are stuck in their time warps. There's some
guys up there that still speak, but the majority of mobsters,
I know, they're not like that. Let's be clear about something.
Edward James almost made a movie about the Mexican mafia
from the nineteen sixties and seventies, he was not depicting
(04:26):
the gang as it was in the year the movie
was released. I know from off the record conversations with
some of the filmmakers that the original script had been
kicking around for over a decade. As bad as the
Emma and the movie seemed the Mexican mafia that almost
piste off in the one that O. G was a
part of was a different animal altogether, and almost found
(04:48):
that out the hard way. One of the reasons we
know this is the memoir by Danny Trejo, which we've
mentioned before on the podcast. Treho dedicates a whole chapter
in his book and a media hard to promote it,
where he makes several big allegations about the Mexican mafia's
reaction to the movie. But how much of that is
actually true? That's something we've wondered since the beginning, and
(05:10):
we finally had a chance to ask somebody who was
actually there. So, did a Mexican mafia leader named Joe
Pegleg Morgan really direct the extortion of Edward James Almost
did the gang manage to obtain the script in prison?
Like trey Ho says, so, someone who started talking about
this pretty recently in the last couple of years was
(05:31):
Danny Treyho He made some really specific allegations in his
book and on some other podcasts, not on this one
because for whatever reason he won't talk to us. Um,
but especially that almost should have known that people were
upset with his idea of doing this. It sounds like
you don't put a whole hell of a lot of
(05:52):
credibility into what Danny Trejo is saying. Yeah, I mean, look,
was he in associated at one time? Sure he was
an associated it. He was an associate in the organization.
And does he keep in touch with some homeboys, sure,
you know, maybe even keeps in touch with the Aaron
older brother or Carnale you know, undercover through whatever means
they communicate. But those guys are long time has beens
(06:14):
you know there has beens, or you know they're Christians,
or they're not righteous active mobsters anymore. So for him
to be in the know on this, it's like, nah,
you know, Joe Morgan did not call him. Um. Another
point that was made to me is if he really
had a problem with this movie, that they could have
(06:36):
made life really difficult for these guys, right like filming
inside a fulsome but it doesn't seem like they did. Like,
if they didn't really want this made, they could have
just told the people, look, it's not gonna happen. Yeah, yeah,
we'll see. The Mafia didn't oppose the movie, that's the
whole thing. I mean, they glorified it and and wallowed
(06:58):
in the attention. The problem with American Meal was that
they showed a martyr of the organization, Hyenne, then being sodomized.
That was the problem with the movie. That was the
problem with the movie because that didn't happen to Cheyenne.
They took artistic liberty, and that's what everybody took offense at,
and that's the whole problem. Right, Like everything else, it's
(07:19):
blood and blood out, except it also has rape. Yeah yeah,
but that's a reality of prison, right, that didn't happen
to Cheyenne. That didn't happen too often. But they took
artistic liberty. That's what everybody took offense to. We had
the actual scripts that we sent around, so everybody got
a sense of what it was. You know, somebody in
the production company, in the production aspect of it released
(07:41):
the script to somebody and so we got it. How
did how did you get it. Uh, well, I wrote
a production guy and then somebody else just sent me
a script. I forgot who it was, but it was
a connected guy though. He had the script and he
sent it to me. Last week we spoke to Danny Harrow,
almost his assistant at the time, who said he did
(08:02):
field calls from Lamy, so communication between the gang and
production was happening from early on. Danny insists this wasn't
him who sent the scripts though, But what is clear
is that the Mexican Mafia was aware of the movie
from the very start of production. So I asked og
if they would have been upset if almost had actually
obtained their permission. Yeah, you know, I don't think they
(08:25):
would have been upset at all. I think they glorified
and they wallowed in the attention. American me actually put
the Mexican Mafia on the national, international stage. And the
one thing about the Mexican mafia is it loves to
glorify its own sense of self importance, right. I mean,
you look at it, if you look at the members,
they're narcissistic, ego centric, every form of personality disorder there is,
(08:46):
you know, and that's why they achieved Mobsters right. You
know this movie it gave him national validity as an
organized crime group. Was Joe Morgan aware that this production
was happening. Trejo says he got a call at somebody's
house from Joe telling him that this movie is no good. No,
Joe Morgan didn't have the ability to call Danny Trejo.
You know, at that time the movie was being made.
(09:08):
Joe Morgan was taken from fulsome state prison. I was there,
you know he was taking It was a place in
Palm Hall Deep say, he didn't have access to telephones there.
He was in the shoe and they didn't have telephones
except for you know, death in the family. So to
believe that they didn't have you know, cell phones back then,
I mean they had those big, you know, brick phones.
But he was going to be afforded a phone call
(09:30):
to be able to call Danny Trejo and say, hey man,
this movie is no good. Other information we have tells
us Morgan was being held at Pelican Bay, a new
super max prison mental hold especially dangerous inmates or those
associated with organized crime, both check marks for Morgan, and
that he was in the Shoe there as well. Whether
China or Pelican Bay O G is confident that Trejo
Morgan phone call couldn't have happened. But what about an
(09:53):
almost Morgan meeting? Our one story that Leo Duarte brought
in Edward almost to see Joe Morgan at Cyper See.
You know that's in Geno State Prison where he was
being housed in isolation. You know, he wanted to tell
him about the movie, but Morgan ran him out, So
get the funk out of here? Was that before the
movie was released or after? That? Was before it was released?
He wanted to ask what the rumor was. He wanted
(10:15):
to ask permission with this guy Leo Duarte, who fancies
himself a gang expert, but Joe Morgan ran him off.
But then O G said he had also heard the
meeting never happened, that it was just a rumor. Leo
Duarte was definitely a former prison official and served as
a gang expert in court, so it's at least plausible
the meeting happened. Either way, it seems clear to us
(10:37):
by now that Joe Morgan never gave almost his blessing
coming up. O G tells us about the Joe Peglick
Morgan that he knew and the details of the murders
connected to the movie. Welcome back to More Than a Movie,
(10:58):
American Me and Alex foum Ato. I'm talking to a
former member of the Mexican Mafia who was in prison
and running a crew while the movie was in production.
And note to listeners when he says the SHOE, that's
an acronym for safe housing unit, one of the places
they put gang leaders. The day after the Los Angeles
Police Department declared war on the Mexican Mafia, this man
put up the cash to bail out of suspected bank Robert,
(11:20):
who was believed to be a member of the Mexican Mafia.
This is Joe Morgan. Law enforcement officials saying he's the
honorary godfather of the Mexican Mafia. He denies that, like
some other members, Morgan is not a Chicano. He recently
pleaded guilty to federal weapons of violations and still faces
narcotics charges. He has already spent much of his life
behind bars. In our episode on Joe Morgan, we heard
(11:41):
from Milton Grimes, his former attorney, about Morgan's life and
eventual death in prison from an illness. He's referred to
as a leader or shot caller within the organization in
countless articles and videos online. But the former Mexican Mafia
member we talked to said Morgan was never that high
up in the gang. Joe Morgan wasn't this godfather everybody
(12:02):
says he is. You know, he was just a regular carnale,
a regular member like everybody else. You know. Yeah, he
had respect in the organization. He was well liked by
some people. You know, I didn't like him at all
because I mean, you know, I'm not racist at all,
but he's this white guy running the Mexican mafia, right
or presumably in the public eye, you know, being the
figurehead of the Mexican Mafia. Right, he had that like
(12:22):
Tom Hagen kind of reputation. Yeah, so, you know, he
wasn't this monolithic figure in the organization. He was well liked,
you know, a historic figure in the organization, but he
was still just a carnale. So he couldn't tell anybody
what to do. He wasn't gonna get paid because he
was this, you know, godfather. It just didn't work like that.
I guess the reason why I thought he would get
paid is because one of the characters in the film
(12:45):
is based on him, right like j D. So I
thought because of that and because he filed the defamation
suit later which didn't work out, that he would have
gotten paid. No, No, I mean, what you do in
your own hustle is your own hustle. I me like, Look,
mafia members can hustle on anything they want to hustle on, right,
and no one member can impose their will or exact
(13:07):
moneys from another member unless we're partners, you know, for
partners in the shared territory, we're sure business endeavor than sure.
But if I go and extlore you know, let's say
Kevin Spacey and he had done a movie based on
somebody's life, somebody can't come to me and say I
need part of the money, because not that that'd be
cause to get that guy killed for trying to extort me. So,
(13:27):
according to our source, the gang was able to get
the script in prison or a version of the script.
Among the sexual violence that angered the gang was the
rape of the gang's leader Cheyne in Juvie in the
nineteen fifties. Danny Harrow, almost as longtime collaborator, says that
detail came from a deputy director of corrections for the
(13:48):
whole state of California prison system. A guy named Tony
Casas who served as a technical advisor on American Me
and died in two thousand and six. Gos has told
almost that the real life was raped in Juvenile Hall,
so almost put it in the movie. What we don't
know is whether the Juvenile Hall scene was in the
script that the Mexican Mafia saw. It wouldn't matter. Two
(14:11):
months after the movie's release, people started dying. Then someone
demanded money from Edward James, almost allegedly. Some say there
was a bounty on his head. Whether or not there
was a green light a hit on Edward James almost
has been the sixty dollar question for this podcast. Or
was it or a hundred thousand or a million? According
(14:32):
to O. G here are the facts. Was there ever
a bounty on Edward James almost as far as you know, No, No,
there was not a bounty. The Mexican Mafia never paid
for a hit, and it doesn't pay for hits. You
do a hit, it's for the honor and the glory
and the privilege for killing for the organization. So I
mean he was a target, but not really a viable target.
(14:56):
I mean, would they have killed him. If you walk
into gang territory and there were shooters there, sure they
would have killed him. But I think he was more
valuable being the target of extortion. So I mean, you
have to look at it through the prism of the mob.
Dead guys don't pay, all right, Their guys don't pay money,
and he was a valuable asset to the organization for
the period that they used them. Do you know what
(15:16):
he paid them? Yeah? Wow, Okay, that's that's actually less
than what we heard. But I guess fifty thirty years
ago is a different story. So it wasn't a bounty
in the sense that they'll pay for anyone who kills him.
But what it would have happened if Almost hadn't paid,
Oh yeah, I mean, if you wouldn't have paid, it
(15:38):
would have got whacked. Danny Harrow brought up this idea
that Almost couldn't have paid because had he paid, they
would have just kept extorting him forever. Pay fifty and
they'll ask you for another fifty thou But here's O
G saying that that's not how the business works. You
take the money because that way people will pay and
trust that you'll go away. It's satisfaction guaranteed in a
(16:02):
funked up kind of way. Do you know who he
paid it to or how that went down? Yeah, Alexaire
got the bulk of it. Smiling Guillardo and I think
Chuco Castro as well. Alex Pewee are faced federal indictment
in the nineteen nineties and has an Avenue's click called
the Peewee Gangsters named after him. David Smilon Gallardo was
(16:24):
a member of the Hazard Gang as in Lives and
Hazard in Ramona Gardens and it's currently serving a life
sentence for multiple murders and other charges. Chuco Castro turned
witness to the prosecution in the federal case against the
Mexican Mafia. We are unable to determine his whereabouts today.
And then when the movie came out and people started
getting killed, where did those orders come from from? From prison? No? No,
(16:48):
this is all coming from guys on the street. You know.
They're effectuating the heats. Like they hit on Anna Lizarraga,
that came from us, my long Guyardo Smilon Guiarlo directed,
they hit on Charlie Brown, Mariquez a Rocky Luna, you know,
and Alex Agiri actually did they hit a Rocky Luna
and then Anna Liizargo was Jose Gonzalez. He took the
fall for that. Jose Gonzalez got convicted. But do you
(17:09):
think he was the actual shooter? Nah, I heread he
took the hip for his brother. I mean they caught
him running away. Then his brother got killed by another
Mexican mafia member. So why why did the street react
to this movie more than people in prisons? Well, you know,
a lot of the stuff, a lot of it was
filmed in hazard, So smile long Guiardo. He was headstrong
(17:30):
and it was an opportunistic for him to eliminate people.
They used to call Rocky Luna the godfather of the projects, right,
so it was opportunistic for a Guyardo to utilize, you know,
what was happening in the political world of mafia to
get them whacked. You know, Charlie Brown Mariquez. We had
conspired to kill him. You know, I had volunteered to
kill that guy years before. He wasn't even worth killing though, right,
(17:50):
he was living in an abandoned house, he was still
in car batteries to get his heroin fixed. I mean
when I offered to do it, they told me Nah,
the guy's not even worth killing. At some point we'll
kill them, but just not right now. So Smilon guard though,
saw this opportunity in this movie because Ia Lzarrego was
known as a rat through and through the hood, you know,
because she went through youth gang services and she spoke
to cops all the time, so she had smut on her.
(18:12):
Charlie Brown Mariquez had smut on him for being a bump.
He was degrading the organization by living in cars and
being a crackhead, and Mamuel Luna became a crackhead, so
you know, they were diminishing the statue of the organization.
So Smilon uses this opportunity to gain a foothold and hazard. Right.
And and how many people do you think actually died
because of this movie, because again Danny Trejo says, it
(18:34):
was about eight to ten people. No, no, no, I
know three people that got killed for it. You know,
there may have been a stablisher too, but there's only
three people that got killed behind it. So according to
O G, this wasn't some grand plan hatched in prison,
directed at the highest levels of the Mexican mafia. It
was a neighborhood beef territorially focused in hazard, and the
(18:56):
victims seemed marked for death from before anyone in the
area and knew the movie existed. So does this completely
absolve Edward James Almost? Coming up we hear whether O G.
A former member of the Mexican Mafia, holds Edward James
almost responsible for the murders that followed the movie's release.
(19:22):
Welcome back. This is more than a movie. I'm Alex Fumeto.
Today we're talking to a former member of the Mexican
Mafia and he's about to tell us whether he believes
the people related to the movie are still in any
danger of repercussions from the gang. One of the things
that we've run into, which I think you might find
a little funny, I would say fifty of the people
that I've gone to, especially the higher up they are
(19:45):
on the total poll for this film, they're convinced that
if they talk to us that it could either get
them killed or get Edward James almost killed. What are
your thoughts on that and really this whole mystery around
the production for the last thirty years. You know, the
Mob doesn't go after those targets. They go after low
hanging fruit. You know, their opportunistic killers, right, they don't
(20:07):
go kill productive members of the community. You know, Edward
James almost scared to death, right, I get that. You
know he put in for a license for a concealed weapon.
He left the country for a while and you really
didn't have to. He scared himself. He's seen his own demons.
You know, he created his own demons. You know, you
were seeing ghosts in every corner. And he had a
meeting with someone connected at a moist coos place downtown
(20:28):
or in East LA and it scared the ship out
of him. Them saying they're going to kill you, that
there's a bounty on your head. That you know, the
mafia had never ever paid anybody to kill anybody. They
just don't do that. From your perspective, how much responsibility
does Edward James almost bear for the things that happened
to those people. I think he bears no responsibility. Man.
(20:50):
You know, he's an artist doing what he thinks is right.
You were just trying to send a message to you
to persuade them. And I'm a complete supporter of that guy. Man,
I don't think he bears responsibility. Should he have an
exercise a bit more discretion, certainly, But I mean, we
could throw rocks all day long. In hindsight, you know,
everybody has twenty vision. But at the time it seemed
(21:10):
like a good idea, and it wasn't even that offensive
to me because that stuff happens all the time in prison.
But you know, that's what the mafia used to explore
Edward almost. I really don't think they were that upset. Like,
like I said, you know, this movie was used as
a vehicle to eliminate the people they want to eliminate already.
So then could you see a movie being made with
none of the sexual assault stuff in it that tells
(21:30):
the same story that doesn't offend the Mexican mafia versus
what he ended up producing. You know, I think it
offended some people. It really it offended some people. But
I think those people are gonna get killed no matter what.
They were gonna be killed no matter what, because we
discussed killing Charlie Brown years before and Eliza, you know,
(21:51):
it was tossed up years before, and Rocky Luna had
become a cracket and he was dishonoring the organization, So
they were all gonna be killed no matter what. And
it's my long guy out of though used that as
a vehicle, you know, the offensive part. Sure, you know,
they pissed some people out and it was a money
making opportunity to extort there where James almost so, you know,
would it have got people killed? Yeah, well maybe, But
(22:11):
I don't think he bears all the responsibility for these deaths.
I think it's just the organization being kind of ballistic
like it is. Those guys were gonna die no matter what,
and as unfortunate and as jaded and as brutal as
it sounds, this is the organization. This is how it functions,
it kills its own. On our next episode of More
(22:33):
Than a Movie American Made in our last episode of
the season, one clue and to Edward James, almost a
psyche might lie in a story that we heard about
the two civil rights uprising in Los Angeles, sometimes better
known as the La Riots. It was amazing, It was amazing.
Um you know, I remember coming we started, I think
(22:54):
any myself and maybe three other people, and I specifically
remember we came to an intersection where they were rioters
going on and they were the National Garden and police,
and they actually stopped for us because they were about
to go at it, they stopped for us more than
(23:14):
a movie. American Me is a production of Exile Content
Studios in partnership with I Hearts, Michael Duda podcast Network,
and Trojan Horse Media. This show is produced by me
Alex Formeto at Angry Yuka on the Internets, and our
senior producer is Nigel Tour, Rose Reed, Nando Vila and
Korean Taps are executive producers. Are Supervising producer is Sabine Jansen.
Mixing and sound designed by Eduardo Albordinos are executive producers.
(23:37):
At I Heart are justl Bansas and ar Lean Santana.
For more podcasts, listen to the I Heart Radio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows,
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