September 22, 2022 • 38 mins
Actor Jacob Vargas shares his experience on and off screen with gangs, movies and American Me.
Jacob Vargas caught a big break when at the age of 20 he was tapped to play Paulito in American Me. Since then he's had a career most actors would envy and continues starring in TV and film even today. How has he thrived as a Latino in Hollywood? What was it like being a kid in LA growing up around real gangs? And what impact did American Me actually have in his neighborhood? Was it the cautionary tale Olmos claims it was or did it somehow make kids think gangs were cool?
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
That movie has probably been the most effective movie made
to help people understand if you want to go into
that world, this is what you're gonna have to understand
and face. If you don't, if you not you saw it.
If you don't really want to go into that world,
get out of here. Welcome to more than a movie
American Me, a podcast that digs into the history and
(00:21):
mystery of American Me, a film directed by and starring
Edward James almost that had a huge impact on Latino
cinema and culture. I'm your host, Alex Fometo, and I'll
be diving into the behind the scenes controversy. And although
I keep getting warned time and time again to leave
this alone, I am still on a quest to find
(00:42):
out what really happened to Anna Lisaraga, Charles Manriquez, Manuel Luna,
and potentially others, all advisors on the film American Me,
who wound up dead in the weeks and months after
the film's release. But more importantly, if they were killed
because of their participate vision in the film. We want
to find out why. Every episode, I'm gonna try to
(01:05):
peel back a layer of the story behind this film.
Thirty years after its release, by trying to go deeper
into the intentions and the motives behind the film and
the backlash. Our last episode was all about Edward James Almost,
the director, producer, and star of American Me, Almost, has
never addressed the aftermath of the film and seldom even
(01:26):
talked about the film itself. He told our last guest,
Raphael Augustine, that he quote can't talk about it. That
clip you heard at the top was a rare instance
of Almost answering a question about American Me from a
young filmmaker at New York Film Academy during an audience
Q and A. The young woman asks Almost if he's
encouraging them to tell stories about great Latinos, why did
(01:48):
he choose to play Santana? Coming off an Oscar nomination
for his iconic role and standard deliver, Edward James Almost
earned the biggest opportunity yet for a Latino filmmaker to
direct and star in a major Hollywood release, and he
chose a controversial subject for his rictorial debut, the Mexican Mafia,
a notorious prison in street gang that at the time
(02:10):
was at the height of its powers. It was a
bold move and it didn't end well to this day,
there's still so much stigma and mystery surrounding this film.
One of the biggest controversies in the wake of the
film is whether the film actually served to discourage kids
from joining gangs, which was almost his intention, or if
(02:31):
it actually in some ways made gang life seem appealing
despite all the bad ship that happens to the characters.
You know that The Chicago Gang Life, I mean, that's
the movie that that disclosest to reality, you know, that
that that people go and watch and it's one of
those films that gets kind of passed down from generation
and generation. Uh, and it's still relevant, you know, and
(02:54):
and it's still um but you said, it just gets
kind of you know, passed down and watched and and rediscovered.
But it's a class it's a classic. It's like to me,
it's like it's like The Godfather, It's like Good Fellas.
It's one of these films that captured like a real
moment in time. That's actor Jacob Vargas. If you watched
(03:16):
any movies in the or two thousand starring a Latino family,
you know who he is. He played the tough kid,
but the good tough kid, the one you were rooting for.
Just to name a few of his credits, He's been
in maybe The Loca, My Family, Crimson, Tide Get, Shorty,
Selena Romeo, Michelle's High School Reunion, Next Friday, Traffic jar Heads,
(03:36):
Caesar Chavez, and currently you can find him streaming a
National Treasure, Edge of History on Disney Plus. As a kid,
I really liked him as an actor, not just because
he's very good, but because there were so few Latinos
in film and TV, and I found him inspiring. Like
a lot of people I talked to for this show,
he grew up in Los Angeles around a lot of gangs.
(03:57):
The world of American Me was a little before his
l but it was familiar. He had friends and relatives
who were involved in the life, and some who have
even lost their lives. So we'll talk about his career.
I want to know how he's thrived as a Latino
in an industry that throws more oil, slicks and banana
peals at you than fucking Mario Kart. But we'll also
talk about being a kid in l A, growing up
(04:18):
around real gangs, and the impact American Me actually had.
Was it the cautionary tale almost claims it was, or
did it somehow make kids want to escape into the
dark and greedy world that presents this episode of more
than a movie. American Me is all about the road
paved with good intentions and where it really leads. All right,
(04:45):
so why don't you start by just introducing yourself. This
is Jacob Vargas and um I play Baulito in American
In American Me, Jacob played Edward James, almost his younger brother.
Like a lot of Latino actors at the time, Jacob
grew up idolizing almost the cool guy on Miami Vice,
(05:05):
the weird guy, and blade Runner. So he gets in
the casting room for American Me, and e Jail isn't there. Instead,
he watches two white guys argue over whether he should
get this life changing role in the movie. I mean
I basically auditioned, you know, and better remember, you know Eddie.
I remember we're not calling Eddie now because because because
we're boys. But you know, I remember watching everybody's almost
(05:27):
in in my Miami Vice, you know, and I remember
like he was just like a bad dude man, you know,
He's had his vibe and it was so cool, and
I remember, you know, specifically watching an episode where he
like where he's on the beach, you know, and he
and he takes his you know, I think he's like
he's like wearing a speedo and he's like walking in
the Miami beach and going to the And I was like,
(05:49):
that's cool, man, because because I haven't seen I never
saw that before someone that looked or resembled me doing
that and looking like, you know, like a sex symbol
was the coolest thing ever. Um. So I'm remember hearing that,
you know, he was he was directing this movie, and uh,
I went into auditions, but I think it for a
small role. It was it was like maybe three lines,
like for for one of the Homeboys, and uh. I
(06:12):
remember his assistant at the time was a guy named
Danny Otto. And uh you know, I have a lot
of gratitude for for for Danny Otto because he said, hey, um,
I think Jacob should read for this other role, you know.
And I remember the casting director was there and they
kind of got a little argument because the casting director
was saying, no, no, that's already cast, and you know,
and he's like, no, but I think I think Jacob
(06:33):
was perfect for this role. And and you know, and
I'm sitting right in front of him, you know, and
having this argument, and he goes, no, I'm gonna have
I'm gonna I'm gonna record Jacob in this role. I'm
gonna send it to Eddie. I think Eddie should see him.
And so they had me, you know, read the role
of Polio Um and then and then it was like okay, thanks, Um,
we'll be in touch. And actually, you know, they said, hey,
(06:55):
would you mind traveling to uh to Fallsome Prison to
meet to meet it with James almost And I was like, okay,
you know, so so I'm gonna plane. It's up in
the Bay area. So I remember, I remember going um
outside of Folsom Prison. I had to go inside, you know,
we had to go through the whole process. And I
guess they were filming a lot of the stuff. They're
(07:17):
already in production, shooting stuff on the yard. And you know,
Eddie comes just to see me and he's and he's
he's dressing his in you know, in prison and the
prison blue is. I was like, you know this so
but you know, and he just said, hey, man, just
wanna kind of welcome you to the to the project.
And just you know, I was already pressed with with
(07:38):
your your read and uh, you know, I just want
to let you know that that that you're the guy.
You know, I was like, well, you know, a phone
call would have sufficed, but hey, thanks, He's great. Um
but but but it was such a cool experience, you
know that that that he told me that in person,
and and and he also you know, he said, look,
I I I this is a really important film. And uh,
(08:01):
you know, and and and you can tell like just
how emotionally like invested he was in this because he
you know, he said, look, we were losing too many,
too many of our of our children too to to
this violence. And I really want to tell a story,
you know, that's that's a cautionary tale of what happens
when you choose this life. So you know, um, so
(08:24):
that's what we're we're you know, what we're making. So
so I already kind of feel like, oh man, this
is this is heavy. I felt. I just felt the
weight of it, you know, and I just felt the
the responsibility of it. But I've seen it, man, you know,
I I I saw you know, at by the time
I was I was at age, I saw like a
lot of my my friends you know, I got for instance,
(08:44):
that got killed, that we're in gangs and you know,
um lost to drug dealing and drugs and all that stuff.
So I saw the effect you know, that that it
had so um you know, so I was like right
there with him, like cool, then let's let's do it,
you know, and knowing like you know, those people being
kind of your peers, because you know, one of the
things I'm so interested in with you is that you
(09:05):
were so young doing this. So like the kind of
kids that he's trying to reach are around your age.
And so do you think, like looking at that, where
you like, these guys aren't gonna listen to this ship?
Or were you like, no, this can make a difference.
You know, I thought it could make a difference. I
really did. I Also, you know, it's Eddie almost telling
(09:25):
you that, So you know, if I think it had weight,
and so I I believe, like, dude, if anybody's gonna
gonna do it, it's it's Eddie. Um. And you know,
and if you look at my character, yeah, my character
mirrors you know, those those kids who who idolized their
older brothers or uncles who went to prison, you know,
(09:46):
and who who looked at prison as something you know,
like like like a badge of honor, you know, and
and right, yeah, exactly, and um and just how easily
that that cycle continues. And I remember when we were
shooting some of these scenes where and anyway, he got
super emotional. I mean he he had tears in his eyes,
(10:07):
and you know, he's like, this is what I'm talking about,
this is this is what we need to stop. Coming up,
we'll go through some of the rumors surrounding the movie,
including why certain advisers to the film wound up dead.
But first capitalism. Welcome back to More Than a Movie.
(10:28):
I'm Alex Romero. We're talking to the actor Jacob Vargas
about the movie American. If you remember, we started this
podcast because of the memoir by Danny Trejo. He said
he turned down American me in part because he felt
that Edward James almost wasn't taking it seriously, or maybe
too seriously. We're trying to separate fact from fiction, and
one of the biggest accusations from Danny Trejo is that
(10:50):
almost began living his character everywhere, even in places where
it wasn't appropriate, like a Jewish Delhi in Beverly Hills.
The first time Jacob met Almost was actually on set
and Foalsome prison with Almost wearing prison blues. But he
didn't get the sense that Almost was still in character.
What he did find was a man possessed in a
(11:13):
different sort of way. Well, I mean when I saw him,
he was actually in in wardrobe, so because we were
working together and he was in the scenes and also directing.
So um, I mean I guess so he would be
dressed as s Santana would, you know, with with like
the dickies and the and the penalties and all that.
So that's normal. Yeah, He's work in the context and
(11:36):
in the context, so so that that was not unusual. Um,
and yeah, and I feel like he I think all
actors do this in subconscious in a way we even
though it's not method, we tend to pick up on
on just some of the way this character would would
speak and behave in some of the mannerisms. And I
(11:57):
think sometimes that that bleeds out, you know, you know, subconsciously. Uh.
I mean I've I've you know, done that before as well,
you know where where my family my wife said, you know,
you're kind of act a little different, you know, you're
best because you kind of you know, you you do
bring it home a little bit um and you know,
it takes a while for it to you, for you
(12:18):
to kind of shake off that that character. If you've
been doing it for for a long time, that's really
good to understand that. Do you like But but again,
but going back to to the falesome thing. Yeah, I
mean he was dressed in the blues. But because he was,
he was shooting, you know, so they were already filming,
and I don't think he'd say, hey, let let me
change out of my my wardrobe to go meet with
(12:40):
with with Jacob. You know, he just just walk over
from set and say hello. And when he talked to you,
he didn't talk to you like Santana. He talked to
you like Edward. I mean, but Edward kind of talks
like said, I mean you know it it. Ward does
have he does have that thing, you know, like what
he does have. He that was kind of his thing.
(13:01):
I don't look. I mean I come thinking if there
was anything out of the order, you are different. Um.
I just thought that was just kind of Eddie. You know. Yeah,
fair enough. Um So do you remember, like the first
what's like the first scene that you got to shoot yourself.
One of the first scenes was was the the letter
(13:25):
scene where where where I where I come in and say, hey, um,
you know, I got the letters that you sent me
and I would I would read them, tell my friends
and and you know, and he was kind of like
brag about about about it. I mean, but but it
was all he just felt very very natural. Man. You know,
they Eddie Eddie created this really comfortable, um environment, you
(13:49):
know where I feel like everybody felt listened to. You know,
everybody really felt like like they were a part of
of of of the film, like from even the X dress.
You know. I remember he would he would tell the
extras like, hey, this is this is a very important thing.
You're not just in the background. You know, what you're
doing is very important. So other people really felt, you know,
the community because a lot of a lot of actually
(14:11):
we're rule people for the neighborho were shooting a hazard
and in in the projects. And I remember people really
felt like like they were a part of it, you know.
And and I remember the time, Um, you know, there
are a lot of the homeboys that were like that
were hired to do security, you know, just kind of
so that everybody really felt like involved and uh and
(14:32):
a part of it and action lives to us, it
gives to us, it is us. You posted, uh a
couple of years ago, you posted a video from the
documentary Lives and Hazard where you're being part of it?
(14:54):
Is you being directed by Edward James Almost can you
talk a little bit about what it's like to be
directed by this guy who's such a legendary actor? Again, man,
with going listening, you know, from thinking about about our
conversation when we were filming, it was all he he
would sit down with you and his and say, you know,
I say, Jacob, this is this is such an important
(15:17):
you know scene because you know, we need to to
to to show the world, you know, the dangers and
the violence of this life and and you know, and
really kind of gotta get tell you just how deep
and important this scene is. Um. And again man, he
was like just super passionate about it, just you know, um.
(15:38):
But then he just kind of let you do your thing,
you know. Uh. And he didn't get too evolved as
far as you know, giving you any line readings or anything. Um,
but he would just kind of you know, and I
remember one scene specifically, was the you know, the end
of the movie where where where we where we do
the drive by. I mean, he was a wreck. He
(15:58):
was like an emotional like he was like crying. And
I remember you're saying that this is you know, there's
there's just too much of this, It's too much of
this happy happening in our community, Jago. We're losing too
many kids and we're losing you know, too many family members,
and you know, like and this is it, you know,
you you guys are telling the world. You know, this
the you know, showing the world what you know, what
(16:21):
this cycle does. The like I said, he he had
a mission, man, like I I just remember, he just
really believed that this movie could make a difference, you know,
in in in you know, in our community. And it
wasn't just for entertainment, you know, it was it was
(16:41):
he didn't want to to glorify, you know, the the life.
You can only control what you put out in the world,
not how people react to it. And it's pretty clear
that almost was making a movie with a message. But
thirty years after its release, American Mean is not known
for preventing gang violence. If anything, the movie seem to
(17:03):
have caused more of it. Do you see any irony
in a film that was intended to stop gang violence
that may maybe it actually recruited more people too. I mean,
I guess there is some irony in that, but but
I feel like I'm sure it probably stopped a few kids,
you know, Like, I'm sure a lot of people will
(17:25):
see that and say that I don't want any part
of that as well. It feel like with certain movies,
you know, it can it can be singled out that
American mus is the only one like you look at like,
you know, the Good Fellows and all these other films
that are that are cautionary tales about the mafia, you know,
in a way tend to glorify it, you know. And
then just because you know, these actors did a really
good job, and all these characters work were cool and
(17:47):
and uh, you know, Santana was like a cool dude,
and you know, he was in charge and and uh,
you know, held a lot of power. So I just
think there's an intertraction to to that. And some people
will look at that above above. What the real meaning
of of you know, the film is that it's a
vicious cycle, and in the context of like this basically,
(18:11):
I mean there was Boulevard Nights before it, But in
a way, American Me like starts a kind of sub
genre of these types of movies. And Clifton College Junior,
Who's your Buddies in one of my favorites, which is
one eight seven, uh. And but so in the kind
of catalog of these kinds of movies, where do you
rate American Me in terms of like who in the
(18:34):
category of this kind of like Chicano Gangster Flick? Is
it is American Me like the least glorifying? Do you
think it's the one that's the most kind of cautionary?
In my opinion, I feel like it's the the least
glorifying in its intention, um, but also the more realistic,
(18:56):
you know, I thought, because it it kind of name names,
you know, and it way and and really you saw
the truth. And I think because of that, it's it's
it's a lot it's more of an attractive film. Yeah,
I mean, it definitely named names in the film, name Checkslamy,
and a lot of the discussion around Anna and some
(19:19):
of the other deaths where that it was retribution for
participating in a film that some people felt was you know,
libelous and disparaging. Um, Joe Morgan being one of them
of like filed suit as as as an actor in
the film, how do you feel about that? I mean,
I obviously I always say at the end of the day,
(19:40):
I was just an actor, you know what I mean.
I I wasn't aware, like I didn't know the story.
I didn't know about any of this, uh, you know
going into it. Um, you know, he's just just an
actor playing a role. So and you know, I just know,
like a corner, you know, Eddie, you know, I know
he said I had he had permission, you know, to
(20:02):
do the film the way the way it is so um.
So I don't know where you know, it got lost
in translation. But um, but you know, I mean at
the same time, you you're always little, you know, worried
about that, you know. Um. And I hope that's all
in the past. Oh yeah that. Danny Villerel and Danny
(20:25):
uh both said that they'd had people sort of warned
them to be careful and in the process and in
the aftermath of the film. You know, nobody's ever told
me anything. So so so I don't know, maybe they
don't like me very much, like David go out there
and be free, you know, beyond in the open. But
but I then again, I didn't you know, I wasn't
(20:46):
portraying any in any of of the actual m M
members either, you know, I was. I was just the
little brother on the out side. Very good point, Yeah, totally. Um.
And then on the street, I'm curious, like, well was
the vibe right, like, like do you get people going
to you and being like yo, like what happened? Like
(21:06):
what what do you think the word on the street
is is that this was that this was blowback for
the film? Um. I remember when it first happened. Yeah,
a lot of people had questions and I had zero
answers you know for them. Um. But I haven't gotten
anything lately, you know, Like I said, like once, you know,
(21:27):
you guys gotta touch me. I said, wow, American me. Right,
you know, we've been talking about that film and like,
you know, twenty five years. So um um, I think
a lot of people may have like forgotten about about it,
you know, or it's it's not it's not that pressing
of an issue as it was back then. I heard
(21:47):
from other actors in American me that Chicano audiences weren't
too happy with the movie or its depiction of Chicano culture.
This is our first movie, some of them said, and
Gang War is what we get. Jake. His parents saw
the movie and didn't really know what to think. But
for his own generation, the movie was an instant called classic,
just not for the reasons almost would have wanted. Funny man,
(22:10):
my parents, I'm thinking, I remember we watched we went
to the movie there and we you know, I do
think my parents, you know, thought it was kind of violent,
you know. But my parents, you know, all they watched
was like the novellas and like and like you know,
like Mexican you know, television. So they're like, you know,
(22:31):
so I didn't know who anybody was, you know, They're like,
I don't know who then any actors are? They don't
even know what I mean they did do now, but no,
of course then exactly was I remember one time when
I did something I did like a Spanish uh talk show,
(22:53):
and my parents were so excited that I did this
talk show, you know, and I was and I'm like, okay,
you guys do understand, and um, you know, but it's
just I think we're just from from two different Worlds totally. Yeah. Well,
I mean it's definitely not a movie that my parents
would go watch, you mean, to be honest with you. Um,
but I remember watching it with like a sold out crowd.
(23:15):
I remember there was like lying out the door. It
was sold out and people loved it, that's you know.
And and the funny thing was, I remember walking out,
you know, and people were like, Oh, that's cool man,
that's Santana was a badass and and everybody, and I
was like, wow, man, it's for it'd been a cautionary
tale almost like it had the reverse effect, you know,
(23:38):
because because these characters were again maybe because we we
never saw ourselves up on screen and now now we're
finally seeing ourselves, you know, in in in a big
Hollywood film. Um, you know, did it glorify it? I
don't know. My conversations are usually people people love the film.
(23:59):
I mean, people love the film, but also to explain
how how the prison gangs you know work, and and
uh and h for anybody that wants to understand, like
you know, the you know that the Chicago gang life.
I mean, that's the movie that that the closest to reality,
you know, that that that people go and watch and
(24:21):
it's it's one of those films that it gets kind
of passed down from generation to generation. Uh, and it's
still relevant, you know, and it's and it's still um
but you said, it just gets kind of you know,
passed down and and watched and and rediscovered. But it's
like a class it's a classic. It's like to me,
it's like it's like The Godfather, It's like Good Fellas.
(24:43):
It's one of these films that captured like a real
moment in time totally. And and as you said, it
was a film where people saw themselves on screen for
the first time. Um. So you you've touched a little
bit about you've touched a little bit on on the
on the very similitude, right, the authenticity of the film
(25:05):
inside and outside of the jail. Um, there were extras
that were actual gangsters in the in the dudes were
in gangs. I mean, you see it in the Lives
of Hazard. Can you talk a little bit about like
what it was like to kind of interact with those people,
how how that sort of worked. I grew up in
the hood, I grew up with with gang members around
(25:27):
me all the time, So it wasn't anything, you know,
different from me. It's just they just happened to be
from hazard, you know. Um, but you know, but it
was they were cool, man, I mean they were cool.
If anything, they would like, you know, um kind of
give um, you know, can I help out live, like say, hey,
you know, cuff cuff at the bottom of your pant
(25:48):
a little bit here the crease needs to be you know.
So they're very particular about about how these guys should look.
And I remember they were very particular about like not
being wrinkled. You out. They'd be like, no, nothing, nobody
would be wrinkled, like because you know, we were playing kids,
I remember, and so I think like they were putting
the clothes off for us, and they're saying, well, these
(26:08):
these are like younger kids, so they wouldn't they wouldn't
be as like well put together. And they guy said,
oh no, man. Once once you get in, man, you're
like you're ironing your your ironing your underwear, your socks
decrease has to be perfect khakis with the cuff, yeah yeah,
and you know, and so so you know, also like
I remember when you know, I was I was doing
(26:28):
the and one of the things I was I was
putting a tattoo on on the you know, so a
couple of guys say, this is how you would do it.
You get the needle and you poke, you know so,
so they were they became consultants. Um, yeah, in a way. Yeah,
but again, man, it was like a big family, like
everybody was really kind of pulling together to make this
(26:49):
movie happen. Yes, everyone was pulling together. But in the neighborhood,
anger was simmering in the background. Some gangs wanted to
be in the movie but weren't cast. Others were cast
but didn't like sharing the stage with rival gangs. One
of the people negotiating between the gangs in the movie
was Analys Satica, a professional gang interventionist. It was her
(27:09):
job to make sure the set was safe in a
rough neighborhood. Every single day and every morning, the film's
location manager, Antoinette Levine, would give everyone a safety talk.
What was your impression of these kind of safety talks
that folks like Antoinette Levine would give to the cast
and crew. Um, honestly, dude, I don't. I don't even
(27:30):
know if I paying attention to to the safety honest
I was like, all right, I don't know whether the
guy is talking about what all right, that's very funny,
but but I do remember, you know, they would say, hey,
you know, I guess some other gangs were kind of
(27:50):
coming around, and I remember there was an issue with
some people feel left out, like why are they including
this gang and this gang? And I remember there was
some kind of like behind the scenes truth that was
that was going on. But again, man, we weren't privy
to that. I mean, we were young kids, so so
I think we were we were kind of protected against,
you know, against all of that, you know, and they
(28:10):
kind of did a good job of of of separating
us from that. Yeah, I want to talk a little
bit about, um, some of the consultants that were on
the set, so UM, I'm sure you're aware that UM,
about a couple of months after the film came out, UM,
Anna Lisa was was unfortunately killed. UM, And there's been
(28:33):
and there were a couple other folks, and there's been
a lot of rumors about the motivations behind that. I'm
just wondering, from your perspective as someone who's in the film,
how did you do you remember hearing that news and
do you remember how you felt. Yeah, it's funny because
I you know, I had a lot of contact with Ana.
I mean, she she was the one that was that
(28:54):
helped a lot with with the extras and uh, and
she was you know, they're kind of making sure that
everybody was listening. You guys are gonna understand. It was
the movie. You guys. You know, if you're gonna be
in the scene, you gotta stay in the scene. You
can't just walk off, you know and like leave and
and uh, you know, because a lot of people don't
know what it's like to be an extra, Like no,
you're doing the same thing, the same scene over and
(29:15):
over and over again. So I just I do remember
her being being around there and and you know talking
to some of the kids because you know, some of
the kids were like we're still you know, uh kind
of like the little pee wee's and you know, and
someone wannabes and so she she's always like saying, hey,
the movies for you guys. Man, you guys, you know,
you know, you know, and she was like gonna sit
stay away from from this, to stay away from that
(29:36):
and stay in school. So I just remember her being
like very vocal um and yeah, and then I, you know,
next to know, I heard that that that she was
killed is really sad. Do you remember Can you tell
me more about her and her character and how you know,
like I said, I I didn't know her that well.
You know, she she just seemed like like, you know,
(29:56):
like like one of those aunts that's it's always telling
you a stay school, you know, like, um, you know,
don't be a pendjo and you know, um, so she's
always you know, out there with with the with with
the community, with the you know, with the and be
be kind of a liaison too what the people needed,
you know, and and and present that to the production.
(30:18):
I say, Hey, these people need give him some water,
or hey they're in the shade too long or something,
you know. So and so, I mean that's kind of
what I remember about her. Coming up on More Than
a Movie, I asked Jacob about growing up in Pacoima
and how he avoided gang life by basically entertaining the bangers.
(30:43):
Welcome back to More Than a Movie. We're talking to
Jacob Vargas about American So we're obviously here to talk
about American me. But I wanted to ask a little
bit about how you grew up like how you got
to be so successful in this industry. I mean, first
of all, my understanding is that you're from l A.
You're from you were born on right, Yeah I was.
(31:06):
I was borning, um, but my parents immigrated to the
U S. When I was a year old. So I
pretty much grew up in Pecoima, California. Um, you know,
it was the hood pretty pretty much. Um, I grew
up pretty much you know, breakdancing. So that was that.
That was my thing. I I you know, it was
(31:26):
like there was some kind of truce there where if
you were breakdancing, then the gang's kind of left you alone.
You know, they just kind of kind of give you
a path, like Okay, he's a dancer. Cool, leave, We're
not gonna try to recruit him or anything. So that
was my thing. They would actually make a dance for
him to be like hey, hey food dance. You're like
all right? All right? You know that that was a
(31:47):
trade off. Yeah. Um, you know, grewp group and Patoma
went to San Frono High School, um, San fron Junior High.
Jacob was a breakdancer in high school and that's what
kept him out of trouble. Eventually, somebody suggested he try
out for the school play at San Fernando High School,
and that's how he found out what acting is really about.
People throw food at you when they hate it, and
(32:08):
then plan on becoming an actor. I got discovered breakdancing
by my first manager, and so she was a teacher's
aide at at at elementary school nearby I went to go.
I got suspended for breakdancing. So you know, part of
my punishment was when you gotta go pick up your
sister from from school every day, so I started breakdancing
(32:29):
in the schoolyard. Well we wouldn't pick her up this uh,
this teacher's aid named Andrew Jones saw me and she said, hey, um,
would you want to be an actor? I manage a
few kids here that they do commercials and you know,
they do some work, so you know you've got a
really good look. Um, would you want to be a
(32:50):
breakdancer and on on TV and commercials? I said, yeah,
I went not, So it's really odd man. So then
next thing, you know, I how you know, if you
think of it, now, like we hop in her car,
you know, and like and she like drives us, you know,
to my house. So next thing, you know, you know,
uh ms Jones with what we call her. She said, hey, um,
(33:11):
you know, I want to represent your son and as
an actor and uh, you know, I'll take them to
auditions and and uh you know, and and I'm going
to manage him. Yeah. What did your dad say? Because
I want to know the immigrant parents reaction. He's just
like what what? Who is this woman? Where are you
in her car? Why are you know? Why why are
you putting yourself in in in you know, in danger
(33:33):
and all that kind of stuff. But you know, for
some reason, I wanted to do it, like dad, come on,
just just you know, and uh she said, look, I
will pay for cool. My parents like, I don't have
any money, you know, I'm not gonna pay for any
classes or pictures or anything. And she's like, look, I
don't worry about it. I'll pay for it. I will,
you know, I'll front you the money. And you know,
so she had a lot of belief in me, which
(33:54):
is really odd because I just met this a lady.
And then next thing, you know, you know, she I
have an audition. You have audition, uh for a role
of a breakdancer on Different Strokes, the TV show and
I'll take you down to uh Universal Studios. You know
they and did I auditioned for the role? Uh? They say, hey,
(34:15):
can you start today? You know I remember audition like
like like a nine in the morning and they said,
can you come back at like noon and uh and
start uh working on this. And the next thing, you know, man,
you know, I spent a whole week on set. We're rehearsing,
we do the live performance. You know, it's a small role,
but it was but you know, it was in front
(34:37):
of a live audience. I mean, it was just an
amazing experience. It was great. And then you know, and
uh so my dad said, Okay, maybe there's something here,
you know. And the next thing, you know, I get
my check and they're like, yeah, you stick to this,
stick to this acting, son, right. And I remember because
with that money, you know, I bought like school clothes
(34:59):
for all my of my brothers were like, you know,
because this was during the summer when this happened. Uh,
what is your favorite scene in the movie. It doesn't
have to have you in it. What is your favorite
scene in the movie? And why my favorite scene of
the movie and why that's good question. I mean I
i'd have I'm biased, you know, it has to be
(35:20):
I mean, for me, it has to be like you know,
the the end of the film, you know, here where
do you hear these kids kind of doing a little
drive by, you know, uh and and they give it
to the youngest kid, you know, to to to make
his bones and and uh, you know, and the tragedy
(35:41):
of it is there's not even a target. It's just
like which one. It's like it doesn't matter, you know,
So just the arbitrary you know, it is, and it's
how callous it is. And that's that's the continuation of
this cycle. But even that final scene carried its own
kind of tragedy. An actor who played a young gang
(36:01):
member in the back seat at the car was actually
shot in real life before the movie's premiere. The shooting
left him blind. Yeah he was. He was one of
the kids. Uh he was. He was one of the
kids that that there wasn't in the scenes with us.
He was in the back seat. Yeah, and I remember.
You know, It's it's funny because you you know, he
just brought back a memory. Is that his big dream
(36:24):
was like, dude, I can't wait to see this movie.
I can't wait to see this movie when it comes out,
and that that was that was his his big um
you know. I remember he was kind of like, you know,
in and out of trouble and and this was something
positive that that that he was doing and moving in
the right direction. And I remember um hearing that. Yeah,
(36:47):
that he you know, never got to see the film.
That's tragic. Yeah. On our next episode, we talked to
the actors who played two of your favorite characters from
the movie, Danny de la Pas, Daniel vierrel A k
a Puppet and Little Puppet. If that is so, why
were we allowed to shoot We could never have made
(37:09):
the film with that. Why we allowed to use like
three hundred prisoners. You know, they could have killed us
at any moment. That's on our next episode of More
Than a Movie American Me. More Than a Movie American
Me is a production of Exile Content Studios and Trojan
Horse in partnership with My Heart's Michael Dura podcast network.
(37:31):
The show is produced by me Alex Fumetto at Anger
Yuka on the Internet and our senior producers. Nigel Dora,
Rose Red and Cream Taps are the executive producers. Production
assistance from Sabine and Jansen and al Thallio and Estella Emmett.
Mixing and sound designed by the Water Albornos. Our executive
producers that I Heart are Just Zeal Bonsas and Arlee
and Santana. For more podcasts, listen to the I Heart
(37:51):
Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your
favorite shows. Five
That movie has probably been the most effective movie made
to help people understand if you want to go into
that world, this is what you're gonna have to understand
and face. If you don't, if you not you saw it.
If you don't really want to go into that world,
get out of here. Welcome to more than a movie
American Me, a podcast that digs into the history and
(00:21):
mystery of American Me, a film directed by and starring
Edward James almost that had a huge impact on Latino
cinema and culture. I'm your host, Alex Fometo, and I'll
be diving into the behind the scenes controversy. And although
I keep getting warned time and time again to leave
this alone, I am still on a quest to find
(00:42):
out what really happened to Anna Lisaraga, Charles Manriquez, Manuel Luna,
and potentially others, all advisors on the film American Me,
who wound up dead in the weeks and months after
the film's release. But more importantly, if they were killed
because of their participate vision in the film. We want
to find out why. Every episode, I'm gonna try to
(01:05):
peel back a layer of the story behind this film.
Thirty years after its release, by trying to go deeper
into the intentions and the motives behind the film and
the backlash. Our last episode was all about Edward James Almost,
the director, producer, and star of American Me, Almost, has
never addressed the aftermath of the film and seldom even
(01:26):
talked about the film itself. He told our last guest,
Raphael Augustine, that he quote can't talk about it. That
clip you heard at the top was a rare instance
of Almost answering a question about American Me from a
young filmmaker at New York Film Academy during an audience
Q and A. The young woman asks Almost if he's
encouraging them to tell stories about great Latinos, why did
(01:48):
he choose to play Santana? Coming off an Oscar nomination
for his iconic role and standard deliver, Edward James Almost
earned the biggest opportunity yet for a Latino filmmaker to
direct and star in a major Hollywood release, and he
chose a controversial subject for his rictorial debut, the Mexican Mafia,
a notorious prison in street gang that at the time
(02:10):
was at the height of its powers. It was a
bold move and it didn't end well to this day,
there's still so much stigma and mystery surrounding this film.
One of the biggest controversies in the wake of the
film is whether the film actually served to discourage kids
from joining gangs, which was almost his intention, or if
(02:31):
it actually in some ways made gang life seem appealing
despite all the bad ship that happens to the characters.
You know that The Chicago Gang Life, I mean, that's
the movie that that disclosest to reality, you know, that
that that people go and watch and it's one of
those films that gets kind of passed down from generation
and generation. Uh, and it's still relevant, you know, and
(02:54):
and it's still um but you said, it just gets
kind of you know, passed down and watched and and rediscovered.
But it's a class it's a classic. It's like to me,
it's like it's like The Godfather, It's like Good Fellas.
It's one of these films that captured like a real
moment in time. That's actor Jacob Vargas. If you watched
(03:16):
any movies in the or two thousand starring a Latino family,
you know who he is. He played the tough kid,
but the good tough kid, the one you were rooting for.
Just to name a few of his credits, He's been
in maybe The Loca, My Family, Crimson, Tide Get, Shorty,
Selena Romeo, Michelle's High School Reunion, Next Friday, Traffic jar Heads,
(03:36):
Caesar Chavez, and currently you can find him streaming a
National Treasure, Edge of History on Disney Plus. As a kid,
I really liked him as an actor, not just because
he's very good, but because there were so few Latinos
in film and TV, and I found him inspiring. Like
a lot of people I talked to for this show,
he grew up in Los Angeles around a lot of gangs.
(03:57):
The world of American Me was a little before his
l but it was familiar. He had friends and relatives
who were involved in the life, and some who have
even lost their lives. So we'll talk about his career.
I want to know how he's thrived as a Latino
in an industry that throws more oil, slicks and banana
peals at you than fucking Mario Kart. But we'll also
talk about being a kid in l A, growing up
(04:18):
around real gangs, and the impact American Me actually had.
Was it the cautionary tale almost claims it was, or
did it somehow make kids want to escape into the
dark and greedy world that presents this episode of more
than a movie. American Me is all about the road
paved with good intentions and where it really leads. All right,
(04:45):
so why don't you start by just introducing yourself. This
is Jacob Vargas and um I play Baulito in American
In American Me, Jacob played Edward James, almost his younger brother.
Like a lot of Latino actors at the time, Jacob
grew up idolizing almost the cool guy on Miami Vice,
(05:05):
the weird guy, and blade Runner. So he gets in
the casting room for American Me, and e Jail isn't there. Instead,
he watches two white guys argue over whether he should
get this life changing role in the movie. I mean
I basically auditioned, you know, and better remember, you know Eddie.
I remember we're not calling Eddie now because because because
we're boys. But you know, I remember watching everybody's almost
(05:27):
in in my Miami Vice, you know, and I remember
like he was just like a bad dude man, you know,
He's had his vibe and it was so cool, and
I remember, you know, specifically watching an episode where he
like where he's on the beach, you know, and he
and he takes his you know, I think he's like
he's like wearing a speedo and he's like walking in
the Miami beach and going to the And I was like,
(05:49):
that's cool, man, because because I haven't seen I never
saw that before someone that looked or resembled me doing
that and looking like, you know, like a sex symbol
was the coolest thing ever. Um. So I'm remember hearing that,
you know, he was he was directing this movie, and uh,
I went into auditions, but I think it for a
small role. It was it was like maybe three lines,
like for for one of the Homeboys, and uh. I
(06:12):
remember his assistant at the time was a guy named
Danny Otto. And uh you know, I have a lot
of gratitude for for for Danny Otto because he said, hey, um,
I think Jacob should read for this other role, you know.
And I remember the casting director was there and they
kind of got a little argument because the casting director
was saying, no, no, that's already cast, and you know,
and he's like, no, but I think I think Jacob
(06:33):
was perfect for this role. And and you know, and
I'm sitting right in front of him, you know, and
having this argument, and he goes, no, I'm gonna have
I'm gonna I'm gonna record Jacob in this role. I'm
gonna send it to Eddie. I think Eddie should see him.
And so they had me, you know, read the role
of Polio Um and then and then it was like okay, thanks, Um,
we'll be in touch. And actually, you know, they said, hey,
(06:55):
would you mind traveling to uh to Fallsome Prison to
meet to meet it with James almost And I was like, okay,
you know, so so I'm gonna plane. It's up in
the Bay area. So I remember, I remember going um
outside of Folsom Prison. I had to go inside, you know,
we had to go through the whole process. And I
guess they were filming a lot of the stuff. They're
(07:17):
already in production, shooting stuff on the yard. And you know,
Eddie comes just to see me and he's and he's
he's dressing his in you know, in prison and the
prison blue is. I was like, you know this so
but you know, and he just said, hey, man, just
wanna kind of welcome you to the to the project.
And just you know, I was already pressed with with
(07:38):
your your read and uh, you know, I just want
to let you know that that that you're the guy.
You know, I was like, well, you know, a phone
call would have sufficed, but hey, thanks, He's great. Um
but but but it was such a cool experience, you
know that that that he told me that in person,
and and and he also you know, he said, look,
I I I this is a really important film. And uh,
(08:01):
you know, and and and you can tell like just
how emotionally like invested he was in this because he
you know, he said, look, we were losing too many,
too many of our of our children too to to
this violence. And I really want to tell a story,
you know, that's that's a cautionary tale of what happens
when you choose this life. So you know, um, so
(08:24):
that's what we're we're you know, what we're making. So
so I already kind of feel like, oh man, this
is this is heavy. I felt. I just felt the
weight of it, you know, and I just felt the
the responsibility of it. But I've seen it, man, you know,
I I I saw you know, at by the time
I was I was at age, I saw like a
lot of my my friends you know, I got for instance,
(08:44):
that got killed, that we're in gangs and you know,
um lost to drug dealing and drugs and all that stuff.
So I saw the effect you know, that that it
had so um you know, so I was like right
there with him, like cool, then let's let's do it,
you know, and knowing like you know, those people being
kind of your peers, because you know, one of the
things I'm so interested in with you is that you
(09:05):
were so young doing this. So like the kind of
kids that he's trying to reach are around your age.
And so do you think, like looking at that, where
you like, these guys aren't gonna listen to this ship?
Or were you like, no, this can make a difference.
You know, I thought it could make a difference. I
really did. I Also, you know, it's Eddie almost telling
(09:25):
you that, So you know, if I think it had weight,
and so I I believe, like, dude, if anybody's gonna
gonna do it, it's it's Eddie. Um. And you know,
and if you look at my character, yeah, my character
mirrors you know, those those kids who who idolized their
older brothers or uncles who went to prison, you know,
(09:46):
and who who looked at prison as something you know,
like like like a badge of honor, you know, and
and right, yeah, exactly, and um and just how easily
that that cycle continues. And I remember when we were
shooting some of these scenes where and anyway, he got
super emotional. I mean he he had tears in his eyes,
(10:07):
and you know, he's like, this is what I'm talking about,
this is this is what we need to stop. Coming up,
we'll go through some of the rumors surrounding the movie,
including why certain advisers to the film wound up dead.
But first capitalism. Welcome back to More Than a Movie.
(10:28):
I'm Alex Romero. We're talking to the actor Jacob Vargas
about the movie American. If you remember, we started this
podcast because of the memoir by Danny Trejo. He said
he turned down American me in part because he felt
that Edward James almost wasn't taking it seriously, or maybe
too seriously. We're trying to separate fact from fiction, and
one of the biggest accusations from Danny Trejo is that
(10:50):
almost began living his character everywhere, even in places where
it wasn't appropriate, like a Jewish Delhi in Beverly Hills.
The first time Jacob met Almost was actually on set
and Foalsome prison with Almost wearing prison blues. But he
didn't get the sense that Almost was still in character.
What he did find was a man possessed in a
(11:13):
different sort of way. Well, I mean when I saw him,
he was actually in in wardrobe, so because we were
working together and he was in the scenes and also directing.
So um, I mean I guess so he would be
dressed as s Santana would, you know, with with like
the dickies and the and the penalties and all that.
So that's normal. Yeah, He's work in the context and
(11:36):
in the context, so so that that was not unusual. Um,
and yeah, and I feel like he I think all
actors do this in subconscious in a way we even
though it's not method, we tend to pick up on
on just some of the way this character would would
speak and behave in some of the mannerisms. And I
(11:57):
think sometimes that that bleeds out, you know, you know, subconsciously. Uh.
I mean I've I've you know, done that before as well,
you know where where my family my wife said, you know,
you're kind of act a little different, you know, you're
best because you kind of you know, you you do
bring it home a little bit um and you know,
it takes a while for it to you, for you
(12:18):
to kind of shake off that that character. If you've
been doing it for for a long time, that's really
good to understand that. Do you like But but again,
but going back to to the falesome thing. Yeah, I
mean he was dressed in the blues. But because he was,
he was shooting, you know, so they were already filming,
and I don't think he'd say, hey, let let me
change out of my my wardrobe to go meet with
(12:40):
with with Jacob. You know, he just just walk over
from set and say hello. And when he talked to you,
he didn't talk to you like Santana. He talked to
you like Edward. I mean, but Edward kind of talks
like said, I mean you know it it. Ward does
have he does have that thing, you know, like what
he does have. He that was kind of his thing.
(13:01):
I don't look. I mean I come thinking if there
was anything out of the order, you are different. Um.
I just thought that was just kind of Eddie. You know. Yeah,
fair enough. Um So do you remember, like the first
what's like the first scene that you got to shoot yourself.
One of the first scenes was was the the letter
(13:25):
scene where where where I where I come in and say, hey, um,
you know, I got the letters that you sent me
and I would I would read them, tell my friends
and and you know, and he was kind of like
brag about about about it. I mean, but but it
was all he just felt very very natural. Man. You know,
they Eddie Eddie created this really comfortable, um environment, you
(13:49):
know where I feel like everybody felt listened to. You know,
everybody really felt like like they were a part of
of of of the film, like from even the X dress.
You know. I remember he would he would tell the
extras like, hey, this is this is a very important thing.
You're not just in the background. You know, what you're
doing is very important. So other people really felt, you know,
the community because a lot of a lot of actually
(14:11):
we're rule people for the neighborho were shooting a hazard
and in in the projects. And I remember people really
felt like like they were a part of it, you know.
And and I remember the time, Um, you know, there
are a lot of the homeboys that were like that
were hired to do security, you know, just kind of
so that everybody really felt like involved and uh and
(14:32):
a part of it and action lives to us, it
gives to us, it is us. You posted, uh a
couple of years ago, you posted a video from the
documentary Lives and Hazard where you're being part of it?
(14:54):
Is you being directed by Edward James Almost can you
talk a little bit about what it's like to be
directed by this guy who's such a legendary actor? Again, man,
with going listening, you know, from thinking about about our
conversation when we were filming, it was all he he
would sit down with you and his and say, you know,
I say, Jacob, this is this is such an important
(15:17):
you know scene because you know, we need to to
to to show the world, you know, the dangers and
the violence of this life and and you know, and
really kind of gotta get tell you just how deep
and important this scene is. Um. And again man, he
was like just super passionate about it, just you know, um.
(15:38):
But then he just kind of let you do your thing,
you know. Uh. And he didn't get too evolved as
far as you know, giving you any line readings or anything. Um,
but he would just kind of you know, and I
remember one scene specifically, was the you know, the end
of the movie where where where we where we do
the drive by. I mean, he was a wreck. He
(15:58):
was like an emotional like he was like crying. And
I remember you're saying that this is you know, there's
there's just too much of this, It's too much of
this happy happening in our community, Jago. We're losing too
many kids and we're losing you know, too many family members,
and you know, like and this is it, you know,
you you guys are telling the world. You know, this
the you know, showing the world what you know, what
(16:21):
this cycle does. The like I said, he he had
a mission, man, like I I just remember, he just
really believed that this movie could make a difference, you know,
in in in you know, in our community. And it
wasn't just for entertainment, you know, it was it was
(16:41):
he didn't want to to glorify, you know, the the life.
You can only control what you put out in the world,
not how people react to it. And it's pretty clear
that almost was making a movie with a message. But
thirty years after its release, American Mean is not known
for preventing gang violence. If anything, the movie seem to
(17:03):
have caused more of it. Do you see any irony
in a film that was intended to stop gang violence
that may maybe it actually recruited more people too. I mean,
I guess there is some irony in that, but but
I feel like I'm sure it probably stopped a few kids,
you know, Like, I'm sure a lot of people will
(17:25):
see that and say that I don't want any part
of that as well. It feel like with certain movies,
you know, it can it can be singled out that
American mus is the only one like you look at like,
you know, the Good Fellows and all these other films
that are that are cautionary tales about the mafia, you know,
in a way tend to glorify it, you know. And
then just because you know, these actors did a really
good job, and all these characters work were cool and
(17:47):
and uh, you know, Santana was like a cool dude,
and you know, he was in charge and and uh,
you know, held a lot of power. So I just
think there's an intertraction to to that. And some people
will look at that above above. What the real meaning
of of you know, the film is that it's a
vicious cycle, and in the context of like this basically,
(18:11):
I mean there was Boulevard Nights before it, But in
a way, American Me like starts a kind of sub
genre of these types of movies. And Clifton College Junior,
Who's your Buddies in one of my favorites, which is
one eight seven, uh. And but so in the kind
of catalog of these kinds of movies, where do you
rate American Me in terms of like who in the
(18:34):
category of this kind of like Chicano Gangster Flick? Is
it is American Me like the least glorifying? Do you
think it's the one that's the most kind of cautionary?
In my opinion, I feel like it's the the least
glorifying in its intention, um, but also the more realistic,
(18:56):
you know, I thought, because it it kind of name names,
you know, and it way and and really you saw
the truth. And I think because of that, it's it's
it's a lot it's more of an attractive film. Yeah,
I mean, it definitely named names in the film, name Checkslamy,
and a lot of the discussion around Anna and some
(19:19):
of the other deaths where that it was retribution for
participating in a film that some people felt was you know,
libelous and disparaging. Um, Joe Morgan being one of them
of like filed suit as as as an actor in
the film, how do you feel about that? I mean,
I obviously I always say at the end of the day,
(19:40):
I was just an actor, you know what I mean.
I I wasn't aware, like I didn't know the story.
I didn't know about any of this, uh, you know
going into it. Um, you know, he's just just an
actor playing a role. So and you know, I just know,
like a corner, you know, Eddie, you know, I know
he said I had he had permission, you know, to
(20:02):
do the film the way the way it is so um.
So I don't know where you know, it got lost
in translation. But um, but you know, I mean at
the same time, you you're always little, you know, worried
about that, you know. Um. And I hope that's all
in the past. Oh yeah that. Danny Villerel and Danny
(20:25):
uh both said that they'd had people sort of warned
them to be careful and in the process and in
the aftermath of the film. You know, nobody's ever told
me anything. So so so I don't know, maybe they
don't like me very much, like David go out there
and be free, you know, beyond in the open. But
but I then again, I didn't you know, I wasn't
(20:46):
portraying any in any of of the actual m M
members either, you know, I was. I was just the
little brother on the out side. Very good point, Yeah, totally. Um.
And then on the street, I'm curious, like, well was
the vibe right, like, like do you get people going
to you and being like yo, like what happened? Like
(21:06):
what what do you think the word on the street
is is that this was that this was blowback for
the film? Um. I remember when it first happened. Yeah,
a lot of people had questions and I had zero
answers you know for them. Um. But I haven't gotten
anything lately, you know, Like I said, like once, you know,
(21:27):
you guys gotta touch me. I said, wow, American me. Right,
you know, we've been talking about that film and like,
you know, twenty five years. So um um, I think
a lot of people may have like forgotten about about it,
you know, or it's it's not it's not that pressing
of an issue as it was back then. I heard
(21:47):
from other actors in American me that Chicano audiences weren't
too happy with the movie or its depiction of Chicano culture.
This is our first movie, some of them said, and
Gang War is what we get. Jake. His parents saw
the movie and didn't really know what to think. But
for his own generation, the movie was an instant called classic,
just not for the reasons almost would have wanted. Funny man,
(22:10):
my parents, I'm thinking, I remember we watched we went
to the movie there and we you know, I do
think my parents, you know, thought it was kind of violent,
you know. But my parents, you know, all they watched
was like the novellas and like and like you know,
like Mexican you know, television. So they're like, you know,
(22:31):
so I didn't know who anybody was, you know, They're like,
I don't know who then any actors are? They don't
even know what I mean they did do now, but no,
of course then exactly was I remember one time when
I did something I did like a Spanish uh talk show,
(22:53):
and my parents were so excited that I did this
talk show, you know, and I was and I'm like, okay,
you guys do understand, and um, you know, but it's
just I think we're just from from two different Worlds totally. Yeah. Well,
I mean it's definitely not a movie that my parents
would go watch, you mean, to be honest with you. Um,
but I remember watching it with like a sold out crowd.
(23:15):
I remember there was like lying out the door. It
was sold out and people loved it, that's you know.
And and the funny thing was, I remember walking out,
you know, and people were like, Oh, that's cool man,
that's Santana was a badass and and everybody, and I
was like, wow, man, it's for it'd been a cautionary
tale almost like it had the reverse effect, you know,
(23:38):
because because these characters were again maybe because we we
never saw ourselves up on screen and now now we're
finally seeing ourselves, you know, in in in a big
Hollywood film. Um, you know, did it glorify it? I
don't know. My conversations are usually people people love the film.
(23:59):
I mean, people love the film, but also to explain
how how the prison gangs you know work, and and
uh and h for anybody that wants to understand, like
you know, the you know that the Chicago gang life.
I mean, that's the movie that that the closest to reality,
you know, that that that people go and watch and
(24:21):
it's it's one of those films that it gets kind
of passed down from generation to generation. Uh, and it's
still relevant, you know, and it's and it's still um
but you said, it just gets kind of you know,
passed down and and watched and and rediscovered. But it's
like a class it's a classic. It's like to me,
it's like it's like The Godfather, It's like Good Fellas.
(24:43):
It's one of these films that captured like a real
moment in time totally. And and as you said, it
was a film where people saw themselves on screen for
the first time. Um. So you you've touched a little
bit about you've touched a little bit on on the
on the very similitude, right, the authenticity of the film
(25:05):
inside and outside of the jail. Um, there were extras
that were actual gangsters in the in the dudes were
in gangs. I mean, you see it in the Lives
of Hazard. Can you talk a little bit about like
what it was like to kind of interact with those people,
how how that sort of worked. I grew up in
the hood, I grew up with with gang members around
(25:27):
me all the time, So it wasn't anything, you know,
different from me. It's just they just happened to be
from hazard, you know. Um, but you know, but it
was they were cool, man, I mean they were cool.
If anything, they would like, you know, um kind of
give um, you know, can I help out live, like say, hey,
you know, cuff cuff at the bottom of your pant
(25:48):
a little bit here the crease needs to be you know.
So they're very particular about about how these guys should look.
And I remember they were very particular about like not
being wrinkled. You out. They'd be like, no, nothing, nobody
would be wrinkled, like because you know, we were playing kids,
I remember, and so I think like they were putting
the clothes off for us, and they're saying, well, these
(26:08):
these are like younger kids, so they wouldn't they wouldn't
be as like well put together. And they guy said,
oh no, man. Once once you get in, man, you're
like you're ironing your your ironing your underwear, your socks
decrease has to be perfect khakis with the cuff, yeah yeah,
and you know, and so so you know, also like
I remember when you know, I was I was doing
(26:28):
the and one of the things I was I was
putting a tattoo on on the you know, so a
couple of guys say, this is how you would do it.
You get the needle and you poke, you know so,
so they were they became consultants. Um, yeah, in a way. Yeah,
but again, man, it was like a big family, like
everybody was really kind of pulling together to make this
(26:49):
movie happen. Yes, everyone was pulling together. But in the neighborhood,
anger was simmering in the background. Some gangs wanted to
be in the movie but weren't cast. Others were cast
but didn't like sharing the stage with rival gangs. One
of the people negotiating between the gangs in the movie
was Analys Satica, a professional gang interventionist. It was her
(27:09):
job to make sure the set was safe in a
rough neighborhood. Every single day and every morning, the film's
location manager, Antoinette Levine, would give everyone a safety talk.
What was your impression of these kind of safety talks
that folks like Antoinette Levine would give to the cast
and crew. Um, honestly, dude, I don't. I don't even
(27:30):
know if I paying attention to to the safety honest
I was like, all right, I don't know whether the
guy is talking about what all right, that's very funny,
but but I do remember, you know, they would say, hey,
you know, I guess some other gangs were kind of
(27:50):
coming around, and I remember there was an issue with
some people feel left out, like why are they including
this gang and this gang? And I remember there was
some kind of like behind the scenes truth that was
that was going on. But again, man, we weren't privy
to that. I mean, we were young kids, so so
I think we were we were kind of protected against,
you know, against all of that, you know, and they
(28:10):
kind of did a good job of of of separating
us from that. Yeah, I want to talk a little
bit about, um, some of the consultants that were on
the set, so UM, I'm sure you're aware that UM,
about a couple of months after the film came out, UM,
Anna Lisa was was unfortunately killed. UM, And there's been
(28:33):
and there were a couple other folks, and there's been
a lot of rumors about the motivations behind that. I'm
just wondering, from your perspective as someone who's in the film,
how did you do you remember hearing that news and
do you remember how you felt. Yeah, it's funny because
I you know, I had a lot of contact with Ana.
I mean, she she was the one that was that
(28:54):
helped a lot with with the extras and uh, and
she was you know, they're kind of making sure that
everybody was listening. You guys are gonna understand. It was
the movie. You guys. You know, if you're gonna be
in the scene, you gotta stay in the scene. You
can't just walk off, you know and like leave and
and uh, you know, because a lot of people don't
know what it's like to be an extra, Like no,
you're doing the same thing, the same scene over and
(29:15):
over and over again. So I just I do remember
her being being around there and and you know talking
to some of the kids because you know, some of
the kids were like we're still you know, uh kind
of like the little pee wee's and you know, and
someone wannabes and so she she's always like saying, hey,
the movies for you guys. Man, you guys, you know,
you know, you know, and she was like gonna sit
stay away from from this, to stay away from that
(29:36):
and stay in school. So I just remember her being
like very vocal um and yeah, and then I, you know,
next to know, I heard that that that she was
killed is really sad. Do you remember Can you tell
me more about her and her character and how you know,
like I said, I I didn't know her that well.
You know, she she just seemed like like, you know,
(29:56):
like like one of those aunts that's it's always telling
you a stay school, you know, like, um, you know,
don't be a pendjo and you know, um, so she's
always you know, out there with with the with with
the community, with the you know, with the and be
be kind of a liaison too what the people needed,
you know, and and and present that to the production.
(30:18):
I say, Hey, these people need give him some water,
or hey they're in the shade too long or something,
you know. So and so, I mean that's kind of
what I remember about her. Coming up on More Than
a Movie, I asked Jacob about growing up in Pacoima
and how he avoided gang life by basically entertaining the bangers.
(30:43):
Welcome back to More Than a Movie. We're talking to
Jacob Vargas about American So we're obviously here to talk
about American me. But I wanted to ask a little
bit about how you grew up like how you got
to be so successful in this industry. I mean, first
of all, my understanding is that you're from l A.
You're from you were born on right, Yeah I was.
(31:06):
I was borning, um, but my parents immigrated to the
U S. When I was a year old. So I
pretty much grew up in Pecoima, California. Um, you know,
it was the hood pretty pretty much. Um, I grew
up pretty much you know, breakdancing. So that was that.
That was my thing. I I you know, it was
(31:26):
like there was some kind of truce there where if
you were breakdancing, then the gang's kind of left you alone.
You know, they just kind of kind of give you
a path, like Okay, he's a dancer. Cool, leave, We're
not gonna try to recruit him or anything. So that
was my thing. They would actually make a dance for
him to be like hey, hey food dance. You're like
all right? All right? You know that that was a
(31:47):
trade off. Yeah. Um, you know, grewp group and Patoma
went to San Frono High School, um, San fron Junior High.
Jacob was a breakdancer in high school and that's what
kept him out of trouble. Eventually, somebody suggested he try
out for the school play at San Fernando High School,
and that's how he found out what acting is really about.
People throw food at you when they hate it, and
(32:08):
then plan on becoming an actor. I got discovered breakdancing
by my first manager, and so she was a teacher's
aide at at at elementary school nearby I went to go.
I got suspended for breakdancing. So you know, part of
my punishment was when you gotta go pick up your
sister from from school every day, so I started breakdancing
(32:29):
in the schoolyard. Well we wouldn't pick her up this uh,
this teacher's aid named Andrew Jones saw me and she said, hey, um,
would you want to be an actor? I manage a
few kids here that they do commercials and you know,
they do some work, so you know you've got a
really good look. Um, would you want to be a
(32:50):
breakdancer and on on TV and commercials? I said, yeah,
I went not, So it's really odd man. So then
next thing, you know, I how you know, if you
think of it, now, like we hop in her car,
you know, and like and she like drives us, you know,
to my house. So next thing, you know, you know,
uh ms Jones with what we call her. She said, hey, um,
(33:11):
you know, I want to represent your son and as
an actor and uh, you know, I'll take them to
auditions and and uh you know, and and I'm going
to manage him. Yeah. What did your dad say? Because
I want to know the immigrant parents reaction. He's just
like what what? Who is this woman? Where are you
in her car? Why are you know? Why why are
you putting yourself in in in you know, in danger
(33:33):
and all that kind of stuff. But you know, for
some reason, I wanted to do it, like dad, come on,
just just you know, and uh she said, look, I
will pay for cool. My parents like, I don't have
any money, you know, I'm not gonna pay for any
classes or pictures or anything. And she's like, look, I
don't worry about it. I'll pay for it. I will,
you know, I'll front you the money. And you know,
so she had a lot of belief in me, which
(33:54):
is really odd because I just met this a lady.
And then next thing, you know, you know, she I
have an audition. You have audition, uh for a role
of a breakdancer on Different Strokes, the TV show and
I'll take you down to uh Universal Studios. You know
they and did I auditioned for the role? Uh? They say, hey,
(34:15):
can you start today? You know I remember audition like
like like a nine in the morning and they said,
can you come back at like noon and uh and
start uh working on this. And the next thing, you know, man,
you know, I spent a whole week on set. We're rehearsing,
we do the live performance. You know, it's a small role,
but it was but you know, it was in front
(34:37):
of a live audience. I mean, it was just an
amazing experience. It was great. And then you know, and
uh so my dad said, Okay, maybe there's something here,
you know. And the next thing, you know, I get
my check and they're like, yeah, you stick to this,
stick to this acting, son, right. And I remember because
with that money, you know, I bought like school clothes
(34:59):
for all my of my brothers were like, you know,
because this was during the summer when this happened. Uh,
what is your favorite scene in the movie. It doesn't
have to have you in it. What is your favorite
scene in the movie? And why my favorite scene of
the movie and why that's good question. I mean I
i'd have I'm biased, you know, it has to be
(35:20):
I mean, for me, it has to be like you know,
the the end of the film, you know, here where
do you hear these kids kind of doing a little
drive by, you know, uh and and they give it
to the youngest kid, you know, to to to make
his bones and and uh, you know, and the tragedy
(35:41):
of it is there's not even a target. It's just
like which one. It's like it doesn't matter, you know,
So just the arbitrary you know, it is, and it's
how callous it is. And that's that's the continuation of
this cycle. But even that final scene carried its own
kind of tragedy. An actor who played a young gang
(36:01):
member in the back seat at the car was actually
shot in real life before the movie's premiere. The shooting
left him blind. Yeah he was. He was one of
the kids. Uh he was. He was one of the
kids that that there wasn't in the scenes with us.
He was in the back seat. Yeah, and I remember.
You know, It's it's funny because you you know, he
just brought back a memory. Is that his big dream
(36:24):
was like, dude, I can't wait to see this movie.
I can't wait to see this movie when it comes out,
and that that was that was his his big um
you know. I remember he was kind of like, you know,
in and out of trouble and and this was something
positive that that that he was doing and moving in
the right direction. And I remember um hearing that. Yeah,
(36:47):
that he you know, never got to see the film.
That's tragic. Yeah. On our next episode, we talked to
the actors who played two of your favorite characters from
the movie, Danny de la Pas, Daniel vierrel A k
a Puppet and Little Puppet. If that is so, why
were we allowed to shoot We could never have made
(37:09):
the film with that. Why we allowed to use like
three hundred prisoners. You know, they could have killed us
at any moment. That's on our next episode of More
Than a Movie American Me. More Than a Movie American
Me is a production of Exile Content Studios and Trojan
Horse in partnership with My Heart's Michael Dura podcast network.
(37:31):
The show is produced by me Alex Fumetto at Anger
Yuka on the Internet and our senior producers. Nigel Dora,
Rose Red and Cream Taps are the executive producers. Production
assistance from Sabine and Jansen and al Thallio and Estella Emmett.
Mixing and sound designed by the Water Albornos. Our executive
producers that I Heart are Just Zeal Bonsas and Arlee
and Santana. For more podcasts, listen to the I Heart
(37:51):
Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your
favorite shows. Five
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